The1619 Project and Its Significance Today

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Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago
Some say the 1619 Project presents misleading information regarding America's beginnings and has no value other than stirring up hatred for America.

Others say we need to become aware of the issues and realities left over from that era. How can understanding them help us shape America toward a positive future?

Wondering.

Pre 1619:
https://www.history.com/topics/colonial … m-bradford

1619:
https://mashable.com/article/1619-why-does-it-matter

Post 1619:
https://www.history.com/news/american-revolution-causes
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  James A Watkinsposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  The 1619 Project is Communist propaganda dressed up as history. It is full of lies. Its purpose is to destroy America.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  What sections do you find lies specifically?
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  KC McGeeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  1619 Project is pure GARBAGE based on marxist GARBAGE
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Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago
FOI (For Our Information)

August 2, 1776:
Declaration of Independence was signed in Philadelphia.

November 15, 1777:
The Articles of Confederation were adopted by the Continental Congress. This document served as the United States' first constitution. It was in force from March 1, 1781, until 1789 when the present-day Constitution went into effect.

September 17, 1787:
The Constitution was written during the Philadelphia Convention—now known as the Constitutional Convention—which convened from May 25 to September 17, 1787.

1789:
The present-day Constitution went into effect.

1791: Bill of Rights
https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/ … -it-happen
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Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago
We are supposed to hate our country?

... to WHAT end?
... to some GOOD?
... to some type of HIGHER awareness?
... to WAKE us up to what, exactly?
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Credence2posted 2 years ago
Is telling the truth about America's past hatred of America.? Right wing oriented people are sooo dumb.

The only area of contention for me on this topic is the idea that whites are born racist, not true, even though racism and bigotry can be taught to the young by parents and family or reinforced by any number of subconscious reminders associated with this culture. This is a nurture problem not a nature problem.

But America has a foundation of systemic racism, anybody that is not a total clown and would just have a cursory look at American History can see this.

I can think of many "systemic" examples, Separate but Equal, the law of the land established by the Plessy vs Ferguson case in 1896. What comes under that? It starts with your drinking fountains being segregated, being told that you were legally required to surrender your seat on a bus at the demand of any white person.

More? How long was access to higher education restricted, until a Supreme Court case ruled that a black graduate student could not be denied the right to associate with whites in the classroom for the goal of education, Jim Crow or no Jim Crow. It was certainly a part and an impediment to blacks advancing in this nation's armed forces.

The crazy idea of fighting an enemy over rights and ideals that they did not enjoy at home. Whatever it was that was rotten and dispicable, whites had done it. How about resistance toward protecting citizens from lynchings and vigilante justice, our Congress spent decades resisting such basic legislation to secure the rights of citizens of color.

From "Gone with the Wind" to "How the West was Won", it was simply a part of your DNA.

I can also look at fair housing laws that had to have been mandated by explicit federal law in 1968, to stop "redlining practices" that attacked Black communities not allowing them to own homes with standard mortgages.

So, boys and girls, I don't want to hear it. The truth WILL be told and I don't care who is intimidated by it or what sort of stupid labels you attempt to affix to it.

I will also agree that so much abuse over so long a period have residual effects that involve us in the present time.

I don't think that this is CRT, but most of this stuff is coming from hair brained tidy righties, seeking to relieve this society of properly assigned blame and responsibility.

But, You can rest assured, I know better......
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Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago
Thank you for the enlightenment. What should be done?
Sit here and stew in our own guilt and pathetic-ness?
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  You're welcome.
  
  Do me a favor, just don't lie to me.
  
  You can't fix yesterday, but I look at attitudes and associated policies in today's society to indicate if we are truly moving away from the past or is that you simply moved the pea to another shell?
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I was serious in thanking you, but your enlightenment is hurtful.
  It is hurtful to people like me who are not racist. If you could give a hint as to what not moving the pea, (what ever the heck that means,) would look like, I would be very interested.
  You CAN leave yesterday behind if what was offensive is identified very very clearly.
  Please offer suggestions for what is fair and just.
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I am not calling anyone "racist", but America's history is racist, why go through all the elaborate dodges to deny this? Treating me and mine with respect starts with honesty and the truth.
  
  Trump, creating a milieu of bigotry and license to some of the most extremist anti-government and white supremacist groups and how many of you, if not racist, were more than willing to accommodate him with your votes. This shows that a lot of "progress" in race relation is superficial and is tenuous at best. That is just moving the pea to another shell, rather than eliminating it. Regardless of what all of you folks claim, Trump has set the tone for advocacy of racism and extremism, here and abroad.
  
  That, in itself, is a step backwards.
  
  I will leave the past behind only if I have a reason to believe that it is in f act "behind". When this issue is rendered to the state of acceptance and credibility given today to the Salem Witch trials and witches then can I say that that era is past.
  
  Everybody wants me to forget, but these slave owning Confederate Generals' likenesses in the public square are extolled as being called "cultural". Stop reminding me and maybe I can forget.
  
  Low cost or free education and trade schools made available on a financial need basis is a start to making amends as the foundation of equal opportunity in this society begins with education. They will call me socialist, and I don't care, but in my opinion DoD spending a trillion dollars on an experimental dodo bird is a far poorer investment. That will tell me that this society recognizes what has been done and is lending a hand up.
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Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago
What's Snoop Dogg's actual beef?
He has 20 million followers on social media.

https://www.newsweek.com/snoop-dogg-con … ur-1515760
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Diversionary tactics and high theatre only. Who is Snoop Dog? An irrelevant entertainer, whose music style I have no use for. What he says or does mean absolutely nothing.....
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  uh, but to his two million followers ... ???
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  This is a new generation, for which I have no real affiliation. I am showing my age.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  you are showing your preference.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  .. but we won't get into the music of our era,(and before), although that's how I'm getting through these bad 'ol days.
  (Record Player.)
  
  In closing for now:
  Al Green - Funny How Time Slips Away (Official Audio)
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LyJyzHKDt4
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  That's my problem, too, Kathryn. I cannot really discern a difference between music and noise? I will take Al Green, Johnny Nash "I can see clearly now" any day. I would like to take away the woofers and tweeters of car stereos from the kids who have to blast their noise over a foghorn at an intersection. Relate to late Seventies, Southern California during the very heart of the disco era. Today, I get through the bad old days with a collection of 800 CD albums that help. But, in all fairness, grandparents and uncles could not get excited about "rock and roll" either. Each generation has its preference.
  
  Maybe, I misjudged, you are not as bad as I thought.....
  
  Just can't figure how this cool California lady can give so much credibility to rightwing oriented crap?
  
  I do have plenty to beef about from totally different directions.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I studied the Federalist Papers in college. I also took Social Science and Philosophy reading Plato's Republic, Aristotle, Montesquieu and others. I understand the basis of the Constitution. I am not right wing.
  I am logical.
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Uh, OK....
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  and what books or reading do you recommend? I mean as a basis for political understanding.
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  tsmogposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Start with the link below and choose. If that does not help let me know and I will make others for you.
  
  https://philosophybreak.com/reading-lis … hilosophy/
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Thank You!
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  As a college graduate in History, I have had to study a great deal of materials if for no other reasons than to do well on the mid-terms exams.
  
  But what does the Federalist Papers have to do with taking a stance that CRT represents America haters?
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  How did you come up with that question?
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  ... what books do you recommend??
  What do you think of Richard Wolff?
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I iniatially asked you why you cling to what I consider rightwing manners of thinking and you told me that you were not right wing, just practical, taking your positions from these Federalist Papers.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe if you rephrase the question.
  
  Logical and practical are different words referring to different ideas, by the way. I used the word LOGICAL.
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, (logical)...
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, LOGICAL !
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Oh...
  
  Never mind..
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  "... not right wing, just practical, taking your positions from The Federalist Papers."
  
  The Federalist Papers explained why The Constitution of the United States should be adopted. The papers were published weekly in a New York newspaper to get the people on board with a new government, in a new country, as a union of states: Their own.
  
  Critical Race theory says the whites who first came to this country only cared about wealth and took advantage of slavery to obtain it.
  Wealth, Wealth Wealth.
  Is that ALL anybody was thinking about back then?
  
  NO. The first settlers struggled to survive, worship as they desired and begin new lives. At first, they stayed loyal to England, but in time, England's Taxation became oppressive and they saw the need to break away. Now they would have to defend themselves. Now they would have to govern themselves. How? was the question and the great challenge.
  
  How could anyone not want to understand the basis of our constitution? It enabled the new country to provide new opportunities with visions for the future the world had never seen.
  
  Why diminish opportunities through freedom within boundaries? Why limit the human potential for accomplishment through self-effort and determination?
  
  Slavery was something they did back then. Slavery was not an end itself but useful and allowed at the time. Since Lincoln saved black people from servitude through enslavement, opportunity for all has been granted through the prevailing laws and moral values. Law books are full of cases fought for the justice of the newly freed people and for their rights ever since. (I have one of those law books. It is very big and heavy.)
  
  The fact is, justice has prevailed over-all. Things were going pretty darn good except in some pockets where more work was needed.
  But then they, (liberal law professors,) had to pinpoint the very distant past and the negativity of slavery, which did finally end. Nevertheless, the fight goes on and will continue to be fought and won despite pinpointing the dark past. This pinpointing is actually detrimental to the momentum toward justice, fairness, equality and acceptance.
  So stop it already!
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  We cannot ignore the fact that building wealth and prosperity was a motivator for exploiting labor of others toward that end. Intiatially this institution of slavery was in both the North and South. Who could be so naive enough not to recognize this? The very earliest examples of exploitation under Capitalism in action.
  
  The basis of our Constitution provided new opportunities and visions for the future for SOME, but not all by any evaluation. The ones that were not accommodated is where the contention lies.
  
  How much "self determination" and human accomplishment for self effort was allowed for people that were enslaved for almost 250 years, and systemically oppressed for well over a century after emancipation? So, I ask you, WHY.
  
  Slavery was useful for who? Obviously, it was not useful for those that had their potential, both mentally and physically, exploited by others without any compensation to them for their effort. It took well over a century since Emancipation, the result of a copious flow of blood and the bang of the gavel to get to the point where, since after about 1970, American racism is no longer systemic in the law, while it still remains a force to be reckoned with "de facto" (in custom). When did white folks ever had to wait this long for anything?
  
  Things have been "good" only to the extent that I have described earlier.
  
  The point I have made and I will repeat is that systemic racism in the law WAS a pillar in the history of this country. I question how much progress we have actually made in eradicating racism by custom. The rise of a Donald Trump and the prominence and mainstreaming of the forces of intolerance and bigotry makes one wonder, how far have we really, come, I mean, really?
  
  CRT acknowledges that in history, systemic racism was part and parcel of American life, and it was. Those that deny this, lie. The issue surrounds the fact that too white folks are in a state of denial regarding something that is certainly obvious to all of the rest of us.
  
  The truth is oftentimes painful, but denying it is even more so to all involved.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  As I said, the fight goes on. But positive momentum happens by looking with hope toward the future, not at the past with disgust and revulsion ... to what end?
  
  Just to be disgusted and revolted?
  
  Where is the good in that, where is the p o s i t i v e impetus for change?
  
  You NEVER say what should be specifically happening in regards to correcting injustices. I would say its in the hands of the blacks themselves. Produce good lawyers. Produce whatever you think society should have.
  Especially good teachers who can motivate, cherish and guide the youth toward taking advantage of the opportunities available. Let them walk down the red carpet laid forth by the historical processes.
  
  The civil war did not have to be fought. But it was. And the blacks were caught in a dreadful institution and used by whites for the sake of their success, and accomplishment and yes, greed.
  But you know human nature!
  
  This is what we are fighting: Human nature and it is not perfect.
  
  No one is perfect. And in America, today, if you want to choose to be a victim, its on you.
  
  Ask all the successful blacks of America. How did they do it? They guided themselves, their free-wills, wisely, following moral and legal laws and found a way to gain momentum toward accomplishment.
  
  Whatever stops the momentum of the human spirit, this is our challenge, no matter what the past, heritage, culture or race happens to be.
  Those physical things do not matter.
  The invisible human WILL does.
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  KH, History is History and if you are going to seriously study it, you are going find things that will disgust and revolt. Airbrushing the reality is not going to help.
  
  Yes, the future is in our hands but I want all impediments as part of the de facto stuff to continue to be eliminated, so that we come to the ideal way of evaluating people. (MERIT). And quite frankly, in the current political climate, I am not as optimistic.
  
  These wrongs go far beyond the excuse of "human nature". It is not any human nature that I am familiar with.
  
  I am talking about history not victimhood, I want the truth about America to be taught, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Can I have that?
  
  Yes, there are successful people from among Blacks, but Mums was right, we have to be twice as good to get half as much credit. I just have to look at the hearing for Judge Jackson in Washington. I don't want to have to climb Mount Everest to attain to the same thing that you get just stepping over an ant hill.
  
  We are not talking about momentum, we are talking about history, and its needs to be fairly represented, not sugarcoated and redacted because certain people feel uncomfortable.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Pinpointing the negative of past or present is counter-productive.
  Embracing the future with awareness of the truth regarding the PAST and PRESENT is productive.
  
  In my mind, one can dwell on the dark water in the gutters, or the blue skies above the mountains.
  Its on each person.
  
  The government is only to protect us and grant us freedom.
  Don't rely too much on the government or you will loose, freedom, equality and opportunity.
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  It it wasn't for government intervention you would long ago taken away what freedom, equality and opportunity we have today. That is why we support the Government more than white folks who always see it as an impediment. Between the gavel and legislation initiated and supported primarily by Democrats in Washington, progress has been made.
  
  Why be ambiguous? What do you mean by pinpointing?
  
  While looking toward the future, I cannot afford to ignore the past, if only for my own protection if nothing else.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  pointing out the negative. focusing on the negative.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Did you ever take Philosophy?
  Did you ever try to read the discussions in Plato's Republic?
  Do you know how to avoid tyranny?
  Do you know what is practical in assisting society in its struggle toward survival?
  Do you understand the rights of the individual and from whence they originate. (Sometimes, it seems I am channeling spirits of the past. I never use "from whence.")
  Do you understand the practicality of providing freedom within common sense boundaries?
  Do you understand the true purpose and role of boundaries?
  
  BOUNDARIES, (moral and legal) are set for the PURPOSE OF FREEDOM.
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I took courses in Philosophy, yes. I believe that I am well aware of boundaries for any democratically based society as defined by 18th century philosophers and intellectuals that promoted such. I do not claim to be the expert.
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Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago
"Low cost or free education and trade schools made available on a financial need basis is a start to making amends as the foundation of equal opportunity in this society begins with education."
I do believe this is available already ....
and then some.
https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/eligibility
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  And of course you know this, as you were involved in education here in Cali.
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  If we are serious about executing this, I could see letting bygones be bygones. You now have the opportunity to rise above generational disadvantage.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  But it is and has been a driving help for so many!
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Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago
PS You must have been a very young substitute teacher, if you taught in the early 80's, as you mentioned elsewhere!

But those were truly the good 'ol days. Hope you enjoyed it.
Did you agree with "busing?"
I was a teacher's aide in valley where I witnessed it. The schools in The Valley were really trying to help.

"Forced busing was implemented starting in the 1971 school year, and from 1970 to 1980 the percentage of blacks attending mostly-minority schools decreased from 66.9 percent to 62.9 percent. The South saw the largest percentage change from 1968 to 1980 with a 23.8 percent decrease in blacks attending mostly-minority schools and a 54.8 percent decrease in blacks attending 90%-100% minority schools."

HOWEVER:
"Economist Thomas Sowell wrote that the stated premise for school busing was flawed, as de facto racial segregation in schools did not necessarily lead to poor education for black students."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desegregation_busing

Plus, it was not practical or psychologically conducive.
But you sure can't say "they" didn't TRY!
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Subbed from1980-81 (26 years old), my time in Southern California was a gas, for a guy from a smaller city. I wasn't really an educator, but had enough credentials to qualify as a sub.
  
  In Denver, it was not popular, I was bussed from a completely ethnically mixed high school to one that was all white. It was a solution for a problem that did not exist. Denver did not have the rigid race problems other larger cities had. The reason for bussing could well have be justified in places like Boston, etc.
  
  Dr. Sowell may have been right if and only if the teachers, facilties and learning materials were equivalent and too often that was not the case.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Kamala mentioned it. She's ten years younger than us.
  https://www.berkeleyschools.net/2019/07 … or-harris/
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  What effect did it have on you? Did you find it beneficial ...
  or ...?
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, I can relate to Kamela's experience. Our "junior high" experience was pretty much fairly mixed and diverse, already. We all got along just fine. Saw the busing thing during the 1970-71 school year, I did not want to go. East Denver High was already the "coolest" high school in town.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  You escaped the draft, too! You are from the golden ages of America in many ways and only us elders know it.
  PS I do not feel like an "elder."
  But it may be why I keep writing here.
  I have a good imagination, I guess.
  - imagining that we are changing the world for the better.
  Sigh.
  like even ...
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I was too young for Vietnam as the draft ended a couple months after my 18th birthday. I walked between the raindrops.
  
  The timing was just right.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, the environment must be conducive toward learning. All the money, time and effort they put into busing! All they had to do was flood some good ideas and money into the school classrooms.
  
  How come they didn't, might be a question.
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  In Alabama why were black kids in one room school houses while whites went to modern academies? This example in later years was not as stark. People who have economic advantage are going to pass that on to their children and their educational facilities. The idea that only those that have money is entitled to a decent education needs to be debunked at the start.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I agree.
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Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago
Check it out!
Los Angeles Trade–Technical College is a public community college in Los Angeles, California. It offers academic courses towards 4-year colleges and vocational training programs.
Avg cost after aid
$6,907
In-state tuition
$1,238
Average annual cost is for first-time, full-time undergraduate students receiving federal aid
From US Dept of Education · Learn more
Address: 400 W Washington Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90015
Phone: (213) 763-5341
Wikipedia

http://www.lattc.edu/Lattc/media/lattc_ … f?ext=.pdf
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Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago
Anyway, the 1619 agenda pinpoints negative things of about four centuries ago and American society was well into solving the racial divide these last four decades, at least.

Now, cops have a very hard time with people on drugs ...
of any color.

Lets talk about solving our drug and alcohol problems.

Come on, people!

I would like a bumper sticker that says:

"Its time to be honest."

T W I S I
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  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  We could do better, I believe that instead of paying people to stay on the dole we channel that money toward people, single mothers while having others provide child care. Not everyone will take advantage of the opportunity of free or VERY low cost education or training toward goals of work beyond those dead end minimum wage jobs. But many will, if not for their sakes, for the sake of their children. We can set examples breaking patterns of dependency and despair, and many of their young may take note. Success is contagious, as was exemplified with the Huxtable family. Their kids would always stay out trouble.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Well, Yes. But here in America, where people are not "on the dole" but rather "on welfare," and provided with ebt cards, it depends on the motivation of the individuals. You really cannot believe the red carpet which is rolled out for every woman and child in almost any situation and predicament. You really can't. And, as you say, success is contagious.
  
  But many depressed individuals are stuck in a negative mind set. It's their fault, but I believe that family members need to have the compassion to deal with family members. So many people who are experiencing hard times would benefit from the help of their own mothers, fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers!
  
  EBT = electronic benefits transfer.
  
  EBT card = a card that looks and works like a debit or credit card but is loaded with food stamps (also known as SNAP benefits) and/or cash benefits. You can use it at stores that accept EBT.
  
  You’ll get the Golden State Advantage card once you’re approved for benefits.
  
  California’s EBT customer service number is 1-877-328-9677.
  
  How's that for creating dependance?
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  tsmogposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  How do you want them to get their snap benefi?
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Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago
The Road to Serfdom is a good book. By Fredridh A. Hayek.
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  Stephen Tomkinsonposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  It is, and he argues strongly against planned economies. However, Hayek also believed that free-market economies generated sufficient wealth to care for the weakest amongst us. I don't doubt that some people are welfare-dependent, but the vast majority would prefer not to be. ( I have an article posted on HubPages about Hayek if you're interested.)
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Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago
FYI
"While the terms equity and equality may sound similar, the implementation of one versus the other can lead to dramatically different outcomes for marginalized people.
Equality
Equity

Equality means each individual or group of people is given the same resources or
opportunities.

Equity recognizes that each person has different circumstances and
allocates the exact resources and opportunities needed to reach an equal outcome."

https://www.marinhhs.org/sites/default/ … 5_2021.pdf
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