So let me get this straight...

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   sandra rinckposted 14 years ago

   Make the corrections if I am wrong.
   
   After Hilter, the UN promised the Jews a safe haven, so to speak and promised them the already occupied Palestine region.
   
   The Palestinian people were a nation that had no country leader, built their own roads, markets, etc.. and lived peacefully among themselves.
   
   When the Jews were dropped off in Palistine, a feud broke out because the UN superimposed on them demanding that they allow the Jews to live among them.
   
   Later, because of the conflict, the UN decided that they would split Palestine into two regions, Israel and Palestine but gave the Jews 56% of the land that was predominantly Iranian. (Palestinian). 
   
   More fighting broke out and Palestinians were being exterminated. Soon the region was a war torn country that had Israeli and Palestinian territories placed within each others borders.
   
   Later the fighting moved out of the countries borders and into Egypt and The Gaza Strip...
   
   So now Afghanistan is between Pakistan and Iran... the war is about territory?  Which would have originally belonged to Pakistan.
   
   So what are we doing there?  We have no right to the land and I am unsure who 'we' are fighting to protect.

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      prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      smart woman sandra...exactly said, but Israeli have been a long time ally of the US, and they earn a lot of money because of the sales of firearms, we should live them alone...

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      Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      When you say 'We' You mean Israel/USA, yes?  I like that you have made an intelligent post, something not seen often enough here.  The pillage of Arab Palestine goes back before the two great wars anyway but post WW2 it got worse.  To make it worse still, the Germans are forced, still to this day, as a condition of ending WW2, they pay Israel!  Yeah!!  'We'  Israel and US congress, largely occupied by Israeli interets (according to various sources, including former long standing US congressman and diplomats) are obviously coming to the end of a run.

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   Denno66posted 14 years ago

   Our 'interests', whatever those really are.

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   drej2522posted 14 years ago

   Well, supposedly, we (we being the United States) are there to capture and systematically wipe out those responsible for 911...though, we may be there for ulterior motives as well.
   
   Our alliance with the Israelis is a separate issue.

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   sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago

   We're trying to create a homeland for liberals. "Liberal Land" where lifes a circus everyday and everybody has to be nice.

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   Denno66posted 14 years ago

   sigh.

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      drej2522posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It's almost disappointing, isn't it Denno?

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         Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         It IS very trying.

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            sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I love you both dispite your shortcomings.

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               Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Shortcomings? How do figure that?

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   sandra rinckposted 14 years ago

   President Death!  That's his new title.

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      Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hmmm, interesting monogrammed towels.

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         drej2522posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         

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   Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago

   apparently, two wrongs make a right.  Go figure.

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   Denno66posted 14 years ago

   That math seems right, oddly enough.....

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   aguasilverposted 14 years ago

   'We' collectively have no right to be anywhere 'we' are not invited to be, and invited by the legitimate authorities or a quorum of the populace (as in a whole heap of folk saying please come help out)
   
   In a just world each country would focus it's security at it's own border, protect it's friends and neighbours and conjoin with others to stop aggressors from prospering.
   
   However.... you guys would need to stop driving for a few cents per mile and everything would increase in cost if available at all, if we lived in that ideal world, because America and Europe are no longer competitive labour wise to manufacture anything, even less to export to produce income, which is why each American needs to pay $13,000 this year in tax to cover your deficit.
   
   Sorry, bit off topic there....
   
   Whether it popular or not, the Jews did get given their land back (note I say back) and there is no way to change that.
   
   They were attacked by the Arab states when it happened and several times since, and they have won each war to protect their territory, because (as an Arab said) the Jews will only lose once, there would be no second chance.
   
   To ensure that they cannot be annihilated by the Muslims, the Israelis have a good nuke arsenal, but it's not ICBM.
   
   It's buried deep underground,(and where are they buried?...there lies the rub).
   
   It's a Massada option, i.e. the last Jew alive pushes the button and the whole middle east oil source gets a nice 25,000 year half life glow of radiation rendering it useless to anyone else.
   
   So just like the good book states, they are at the centre of the world stage and the world has to deal with them, and abandoning them to be exterminated just ain't an option.

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      Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hmmm, that was quite impressive. Thank you for that.

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         aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         You're welcome... sometimes we get so involved with the issues we forget the realities...

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      tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with you in this, aguasilver!
      

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    Poppa Bluesposted 14 years ago

    I think you got it wrong. The Jews and Palestinians lived together peacefully in Palestine which at the time was controlled by the British. At the same time the Zionist movement began to find a homeland for the Jews. The movement encouraged the immigration of Jews into Palestine which was mostly illegal but the British didn't enforce their immigration laws. At some point the Palestinians were forced out of their homes and off their lands and marched without food or water to the border with Jordan by a well organized group of terrorists part of the Zionists movement, and Israel was formed.
    
    The borders in that part of the world were, I believe, all drafted by the British so Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iraq were created by outside interests. If you remember we went there to get those responsible for the 9/11 attacks. It would be a shame to leave without having accomplished that goal after all the money and lives spent. I think at some point, given the huge sums being spent domestically that the USA will have to rethink our foreign policy and reduce our military footprint globally, which I believe will be bad for America, projecting an image of weakness and allowing China to fill that void.

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       Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       It will be interesting to see how much China wants to. They certainly want energy and minerals, but that part of the Middle East isn't specially rich in either. One thing about China - they won't care tuppence about whose 'holy' land it is, which might make a refreshing change!
       
       (p.s. I agreed with the bulk of your post on the history of the region)

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    readytoescapeposted 14 years ago

    Wow, the condensed version of Middle Eastern history sure makes it seem easy to ignore or damn the issues. I hate to point out that there have been “just a few things” left out and a just a tad skewed in this version.  It’s kind of like the Global warming theory, the facts and the data are a bit twisted and labored to arrive at the preconceived conclusion which is required to produce a particular political outcome.
    
    Just one of these skewed facts might be, the Jews, historically also referred to as Hebrews, occupied portions of this area long before partition in 1947. In what could be considered modern history the Jews began resettling this area of Palestine in 1880, which was then actually referred to as Southern Syria.
    
    The ink on the map of Asia Minor (the Middle East) has changed so many times over the centuries that almost every culture of the “continental” area lays some type of claim, for at one time Palestine and Israel both stood separately and/or as portions of larger empires and were recognized by those powers both individually and collectively. 
    
    But none of this has anything to do with the current War on Terror in Afghanistan, unless of course you believe in the Theological-rallying cry that the United States is the Great Satan, and is responsible for the current radical Islamic lot in life.
    
    We are at War in Afghanistan for this very reason. The “True Believers,” the people that attached us, and continue to attack us are there. Now we can wait until they come here and attack again, but they don’t seem to have much stomach for facing our Military, they only cowardly attack the defenseless. And I’m pretty sure most of us would not like to see tanks rolling down our streets or fighter jets screaming across our skies. I for one, as the father of two sons that have served 7 tours of combat duty, prefer the fight be on foreign shores.
    
    One other thing you my have missed in Obama’s speech, and I must say I am not a supporter of his in anyway, skewed or otherwise, is he stated, truthfully I might add, The US has never sought to invade and possess any nation or foreign land.

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       tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Well USA sure does possess all the money, if not the land !
       what do you think M E wars are for??
       To free people ? Or to free economy ??
       Get real !
       A lot of innocent people are dying  there just for the wealth of a few.

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          tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          That is not correct.

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       aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       readytoescape,
       
       I positioned that fact in my post:
       
       "Whether it popular or not, the Jews did get given their land back (note I say back) and there is no way to change that."
       
       Don't think for one minute that I disagree with what needs to be done to deal with the Muslim threat to the western way of life.
       
       Should the Muslims ever gain control, most of us posting here would be beheaded, and it would be the 'infidel atheists' who would suffer first, then the believers if we refused to pay tribute to their god.
       
       It never ceases to amaze me that do good tree hugging liberals full of political correctness fail to understand that if the radical bible believing, fundamentalist, right wing fascist pigs that they love to hate and pour scorn upon EVER stopped fighting for what they believe is right, then those self same tree hugging liberals full of political correctness would be tortured and killed by the people who will replace us.
       
       I say will replace us, because in NWO terms 'we' are termed 'dinosaurs' (in that we are dying out soon by natural attrition)and as things stand the Muslim nations (including the ones they are building inside our nations) will have out bred our people within 50 years, so once they could all vote...
       
       The NWO however do not anticipate this will happen, because when they gain control (around the time God calls His people home)then the way will be clear for the eugenics squad to take over.
       
       Life has ideals and reality - and you need a mix of both, but end up with reality whether you like it or not!

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          readytoescapeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          We are apparently in agreement as the threats facing peace and liberty.  The perversion of Islam and the apathy of the liberal left are just as disquieting, possibly more than the New World Order the left covets, but we’ll see what happens in Copenhagen, meetings which are perceived by some to be the first steps towards that liberal dream.
          
          As to our engagement in Afghanistan one sure truth stands taller than all against the scenery of progressive liberalism, the islamo-facists want to bring an end to our way of life and the freedoms for which, sadly and disgustingly many take for granted.
          
          N.O.W. or not there is only one way to maintain global life and liberty as we know it and /or would like it to be, destroy the cancer that is Jihadist terrorism, and the 7th century beliefs that threaten to kill us. Such motivations are why the maps of Asia Minor were so often redrawn.
          
          In discussions such as these two quotes come mind when considering the apathetic and unappreciative.
          
          
          "Do you know what a soldier is...? He's the chap who makes it possible for civilized folk to despise war." -- Allan Massie, Scottish journalist/novelist
          
          “Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, and the other for your freedom.”
          
          Of the final quote, the first is belief, but the second is fact. It is the same fact today as it was during the world wars. While many have joined us, others have selfishly and cowardly stood idly by and allowed American blood to be shed for their protection and liberation.
          
          Sadly, the blood ignored and distained by our own is the very thing Mr. Massie was shamefully describing.

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    tantrumposted 14 years ago

    

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       readytoescapeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Yeah, I know Islamic extremists attacked us, so they could tempt us into invading their countries to make us rich with their oil. I know, I know.
       
       Or wait, was it we attacked ourselves to make it look like they did it so we could get the oil……that we already had.
       
       Oops maybe, just maybe it was something else.

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          tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          you said it .

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          tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Nobody attacked you. You like oil and money
          you had the oil ????
          Only half of it.
          Now you have it all. In Irak ,I mean
          funny ,you guys !
          

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             tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

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    readytoescapeposted 14 years ago

    ROtF LMAO

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       tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       that was post  for this purpose !
       

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          readytoescapeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          You wanted me, and I'm sure quite a few others, to laugh at the ridiculousness of your conclusions?

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             tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             No at all . At yours
             
             these are my conclusions ,I posted earlier
             
             
             Nobody attacked you. You like oil and money
             you had the oil ????
             Only half of it.
             Now you have it all. In Irak ,I mean
             funny ,you guys !

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    Poppa Bluesposted 14 years ago

    The wars there do have an oil component. The USA is not only protecting their own interests in maintaining the lifestyle of it's citizens, but also those of the rest of the world that relies on oil exports from the region. Indeed, America is spending a great deal of their citizens money and frankly, aren't getting the respect they deserve for doing so.

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