All Things Israel and Palestine

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  1. My Esoteric profile image87
    My Esotericposted 7 weeks ago

    First, let me say that I support Israel's right to exist, always have and always will.  I also support Palestine's right to exist as well.

    Let me also say that the Donald Trump of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, is trying to destroy everything that Israel stands for.  His one-state solution and stealing land will isolate Israel to such an extent that they will become a pariah, no better than Hamas, something the Israeli people do not deserve. 

    I don't think it will lead to Israel being defeated by the Arab states because if it looks like that may happen militarily, I suspect that America will put boots on the ground - but because of Netanyahu's disregard for Israel's safety to meet his own narcissistic needs it will be a hard sell.

    To the current situation in Gaza.  I use to be a very strong supporter of Israel's right to defend itself, especially after the Oct 7 massacre, but no longer, at least not at any cost.  That is one outcome of Netanyahu's insanity.  To me, Netanyahu (not most of the Israeli people) has become no better than the terrorists he is trying to eliminate.  He, I think, has become a war criminal in his own right.  And that is sad because most of the Israeli people (those that don't support Bibi) don't deserve it.

    The parallels to what is happening in America are striking.  Both Trump and Bibi are on a course to destroy the democracies that define their respective countries.  Both have a very large, hard-core army of supporters that no longer are able to act rationally. Both have wings in that army that are willing to use terrorism to get their way.

    Another interesting fact I didn't know until recently is that the Arab states, by-and-large, do not like the Palestinians and wish very much they would go away.  In fact, the only real state alley is Iran, and I doubt it is because they love Palestinians.  The rest, at one time or another, have actually attacked or otherwise abused Palestinian refugees.

    In any case, Netanyahu's form of terrorism (you can defend yourself against terrorism without becoming what you are trying to defeat) has finally convinced me to join the Ceasefire side of the debate.

    https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live … index.html

    1. wilderness profile image94
      wildernessposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

      When Palestinians turn on the terrorists and begin aiding Israel in finding/destroying them things might be different.

      Part (a big part) of the problem, seems to me from my easy chair, is that the terrorists and Palestine are one and the same.  The country is one headed by a terrorist, has terrorists for their military and, as a country, carries out terrorist activities.

      As it is, Netanyahu is not carrying out terrorist attacks in spite of the cries that he is just another terrorist.  Instead he is waging war against a foe that uses its own people as living shields, forcing extreme "collateral damage" no matter how hard Netanyahu might try to avoid it.  Every war is filled with that "collateral damage", but it only escalates as is seen in Palestine when one side uses their own people and cities as a means of defense.

      1. Kathleen Cochran profile image75
        Kathleen Cochranposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

        Wilderness: It is a world gone mad: we actually agree again. When people are outraged that Israel attacks a hospital, do they ask themselves "What made that hospital a target?" It's where Hamas set up their headquarters on purpose! Who does that?! Then ask yourself "How did this start (this time)?" October 7, raping and killing people in their own homes! Do you just forget something like that so easily? If it were my family being attacked so savagely, I'd want to kill every single one of those terrorists too!

        And Esoteric: "Another interesting fact I didn't know until recently is that the Arab states, by-and-large, do not like the Palestinians and wish very much they would go away."

        I didn't know this fact either until I lived in the Middle East. Arabs talk about the Palestinians the way we used to talk about minorities in this country (and unfortunately, some still do). "They don't pay their bills. They are lazy. They will cheat you." These were all comments I heard referring to Palestinians multiple times in the four years I lived in the region.

        Not to mention the fact that any Arab country in the region could have taken in the Palestinians when they started a war with Israel and lost. (Another fact people conveniently forget.) They could have absorbed their number into their population without hardly any impact on their societies. They intentionally let them suffer in refugee camps for 50 years just to be a thorn in Israel's side and a disaster to point to and tell the world how cruel Israel was. How about how cruel they were to their own kind (red-headed stepchildren though they considered them to be. Still Arabs.) One of the four pillars of Islam is hospitality. Guess they forgot that one.

        Please God not US boots on the ground in Israel or in Ukraine. Support those countries in their defense against criminal aggression. Spend our money not the blood of our children.

        1. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

          I agree with your sentiments but think there are many ways to combat Hamas without the indiscriminate slaughter that Bibi is intent on inflicting on the Palestinian people.

          I agree with Israel's goal of defeating/eliminating Hamas as an effective terrorist organization.  But, I do not agree with Bibi's goal of eliminating Palestine in the process.

          As a former soldier, I would support boots on the ground in Ukraine if a nuclear war were off the table.  The saving of a major democratic alley is worth it to me.

          1. Kathleen Cochran profile image75
            Kathleen Cochranposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

            "As a former soldier, I would support boots on the ground in Ukraine if a nuclear war were off the table.  The saving of a major democratic alley is worth it to me."

            As a former soldier's wife, I totally understand how you feel. I'm just hoping we send enough aid that it does not cone to that.

            1. My Esoteric profile image87
              My Esotericposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

              To me, it is mute anyway.  Putin is crazy enough to go nuclear so supporting Ukraine with aid and weapons seem to be our only choice (other than to suck it up domestically and sanction Russia's oil.  Maybe Biden might consider that after the election.

              I just read that they are moving the US run Ukraine Aid Coordination program, or whatever it is called, out from under US control to NATO control as a hedge against Trump winning.  That way when Trump pulls the US out of NATO, coordinating aid to Ukraine from the rest of the sane world will be in good hands.

              1. Kathleen Cochran profile image75
                Kathleen Cochranposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                Esoteric: Well, taking precautions against Trump winning is certainly called for. The best precaution I think we should take is to vote for President Biden.

                1. My Esoteric profile image87
                  My Esotericposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Absolutely!

                  1. Kathleen Cochran profile image75
                    Kathleen Cochranposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                    I shared your comments with my soldier/husband and he suggested we tell Putin if he is serious about threatening nukes, we'll simply return Ukraine's nukes to them and Putin can deal with that threat. BTW: The wind blows from west to east in that part of Europe!!!

                2. MizBejabbers profile image87
                  MizBejabbersposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                  I agree. The whole thing disgusts me so that I probably would be ostracized and possibly banned from this forum if I expressed my honest opinion. These people have been fighting since Biblical times and haven't solved anything. Enough is enough.

      2. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

        Now, with the way Netanyahu is terrorizing the Palestinians, what motivation do they have to commit suicide by turning on Hamas?

        Yes, Bibi is waging war on an enemy that uses its own people as human shields - his answer is to kill all the human shields then there won't be anything to hide behind.  To me, that makes Bibi as bad as Hamas.

        Yes, every war has collateral damage, But Bibi is going out of his way to make sure there is lots of it.

        1. Kathleen Cochran profile image75
          Kathleen Cochranposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          Bibi does not have to go out of his way. Hamas has put a target on the backs of their own people by where they have located their stockpiles and headquarters right below hospitals, schools, housing areas. Why do we suppose they did that? So this very scenario would play out after they committed the atrocities of October 7.

          BTW: In order to remove all doubt: Hamas is a Palestinian terrorist organization supported virtually wholly by Iran.

          1. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            Then you would say that the Proud Boys is a White Christian terrorist organization supported virtually wholly by MAGA and Trump.

            What that does is equate all White Christians as terrorists just like as being done with Palestinians when someone says Hamas are Palestinians.

    2. Castlepaloma profile image76
      Castlepalomaposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      For 3000 years and most noticeable 75 years open air prison. To closest to a world War we have seen in our lifetime. This is none of my businesses and going my way anyway.

      So let their murdering hatred of each other eliminate each other from the face of the earth and each other as far as I care.

      What I don't like, is using North America tax dollars to fund the top three places like Ukraine, Syria and Gaza to be per capita the most homeless places on earth. The spill over of refugees making Canada's city of Toronto the capital of homelessness for Canada. Homeless deaths here kill greater than murder and war. And homeless person has 9 time greater chance of suicide. This is the now most hated group from once blacks, marrijanna and gays. In our lifetime history. Thank to the three level of government and the madd greedy realestate and bank tycoons.

      1. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        Since you included Ukraine in your list, does that mean you are OK with Putin taking control of Ukraine and destroying their democracy (and probably killing thousands of people who supported the Ukrainian cause)?

        1. Castlepaloma profile image76
          Castlepalomaposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          The wars create homelessness and poverty greater than anything. Canada and US have no business or trade in Ukraine other than increasing  the bankster, realestate and energy trillionaire and billionaires tycoons.

          1. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            You didn't answer my question.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image76
              Castlepalomaposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

              I gave you an anwer, closest to the truth from my studies,teaching in Russia. And living in the US for 20 years.  If you want me believe the faireytale about US being a strongest democracy or the freest country in the world. Or even if it's a better country than Russia, not by my experience, I'd rather live in Russia than US.

              Would much perfer my favorite town of Santa famillia Belize. Its one of the world's best retirement paradise and to live there in the winter is amazingly beautiful.  It's far away from the war machines of the madd greedy and of it's western collapse.
              Don't find many Americans reasonable about discussion about corperationism rights vs human rights . Americans have privileges from their President who is of a corporation , not of a country. 
              US is corperationism under the control of US Corp. Ever since Lincolns assassination, the wars must be fought with another country every year to keep it's US world status of marshail law every year.

              I don't support war, or  Red or blue politician and greed. Give me the place to line up for  love, health, and freedom 

              Wonder if US would wants Russian military bases out of Canada and Mexico.  Like 5 NATOs military bases on Russian borders, right now. ?.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                Castlepalomaposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

                I mean martial law.

          2. Readmikenow profile image95
            Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            Que the theme from the Twilight Zone.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image76
              Castlepalomaposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

              Since I've love my work for most waking hours of my life. Who to say from most people who are not liking their job and under the safety slavey of the narrative of religion and government. Who living in the twilight zone or Matrix system when I'm living a life of being the king of my own domain.

        2. Sharlee01 profile image89
          Sharlee01posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          Ukraine, with a population of 38 million, is facing a devastating conflict against Russia, whose population stands at 144.2 million. It's evident that the sheer difference in population size could lead one to question the outcome of such a war. However, beyond mere numbers, the tragic reality unfolds on Ukrainian soil, where innocent lives are lost, and the nation is being ravaged.

          The grim truth is that Ukraine has become a battleground, with its people bearing the brunt of the violence. It's disheartening to witness the narratives spun by those who downplay the gravity of the situation or endorse actions that only exacerbate the suffering of innocent civilians.

          It's deeply troubling to witness anyone peddling the notion that our presence is merely about halting Russia's advancement across Europe. The reality is, that any incursion into a NATO nation would inevitably trigger a full-scale conflict, a fact well understood by Putin. Such a scenario would thrust the world to the brink of war right at his doorstep. Not sure how anyone believed the scenario that was fed up as an excuse for that war.  This war should have never happened, period.  Problem created, with little to no way to solve the problem. A strong president would have prevented this war, by using strong consequences if Russia had crossed a red line.

          It's far too convenient to stay nestled in our comfort zones and assume we have the entitlement to sacrifice lives from another nation just to maintain our own comfort.  I think most know where this will all end, unfortunately.

          NATO is presently showing signs of wanting the war to end.

          "NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg claims Ukraine would be the one to set the rules for a compromise to reach a result with the help of the West. In an interview with the BBC, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg expressed that Ukraine will ultimately have to compromise in some way with Russia to end the war.Apr 7, 2024"

          https://english.almayadeen.net/news/pol … the%20war.

          1. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            "Ukraine, with a population of 38 million, is facing a devastating conflict against Russia, whose population stands at 144.2 million. It's evident that the sheer difference in population size could lead one to question the outcome of such a war." - YOU HAVE posted that one before and I pointed out how misleading that is given the kill ration between Russia and Ukraine.  I provided a lot of numbers but the bottom line is Russia doesn't have enough people to sustain the rate of KIA they are seeing.

            "NATO is presently showing signs of wanting the war to end." -YOU WROTE that piece of misleading propaganda before as well.

            When you delve into the link you provided, as I did before, and read everything he said, you saw (because I provided the quotes) that he is saying the exact opposite of your claim.

            1. Sharlee01 profile image89
              Sharlee01posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

              Nov 2023 --    Civilian Deaths In Ukraine War Top 10,000, UN Says
              21 November 2023

              At least 10,000 CIVILIANS, including more than 560 children, have been killed and over 18,500 have been injured since Russia launched its a full-scale armed attack against Ukraine on 24 February 2022, the United Nations Human Rights Monitoring Mission in Ukraine (HRMMU) said today.  https://ukraine.un.org/en/253322-civili … 000-unsays

              31,000 Ukrainian troops killed since the start of Russia’s full-scale invasion, Zelenskyy says   https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-troo … 6e85af57c4

              I have no numbers from any sources I trust to be truthful regarding the deaths of  Russian troops. Russia has taken no damage to its towns or cities. And I found no reports of civilian deaths.

              What I said and I quote  "NATO is presently showing signs of wanting the war to end."  (note the context of my sentence, "showing sighs")  I don't appreciate you accusing me of posting propaganda, you need to start paying closer attention to context.  No really.

              At no other time has NATO suggested that Ukraine will need to make any form of compromise with Russia. That is a very strong word that carries weight and, in my view, Jens Stoltenberg would not have ever used the word if he did not want Zelinsky to hear it.  Stoltenberg shares his thoughts on compromise.   
              April 6th 2024  https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-68749301

              1. My Esoteric profile image87
                My Esotericposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                Who was talking about Russian civilian deaths?  I certainly wasn't.  I was talking about military deaths and the fact that Russia doesn't have enough population to sustain the attrition.

                1. Sharlee01 profile image89
                  Sharlee01posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                  What is wrong with you -- do you remember what you wrote, and what my comment was regarding?  As I said you have a real problem with picking up context and becoming argumentive without cause.  You need to remember the full content and context of a conversation

                  My comment  ---   Ukraine, with a population of 38 million, is facing a devastating conflict against Russia, whose population stands at 144.2 million. It's evident that the sheer difference in population size could lead one to question the outcome of such a war. However, beyond mere numbers, the tragic reality unfolds on Ukrainian soil, where innocent lives are lost, and the nation is being ravaged.

                  The grim truth is that Ukraine has become a battleground, with its people bearing the brunt of the violence. It's disheartening to witness the narratives spun by those who downplay the gravity of the situation or endorse actions that only exacerbate the suffering of innocent civilians.

                  It's deeply troubling to witness anyone peddling the notion that our presence is merely about halting Russia's advancement across Europe. The reality is, that any incursion into a NATO nation would inevitably trigger a full-scale conflict, a fact well understood by Putin. Such a scenario would thrust the world to the brink of war right at his doorstep. Not sure how anyone believed the scenario that was fed up as an excuse for that war.  This war should have never happened, period.  Problem created, with little to no way to solve the problem. A strong president would have prevented this war, by using strong consequences if Russia had crossed a red line.

                  It's far too convenient to stay nestled in our comfort zones and assume we have the entitlement to sacrifice lives from another nation just to maintain our own comfort.  I think most know where this will all end, unfortunately.

                  Here is your response YOU MAKE NO MENTION OF MILITARY in any respect. 

                  MY ESOTERIC WROTE:
                  "Ukraine, with a population of 38 million, is facing a devastating conflict against Russia, whose population stands at 144.2 million. It's evident that the sheer difference in population size could lead one to question the outcome of such a war." - YOU HAVE posted that one before and I pointed out how misleading that is given the kill ration between Russia and Ukraine.  I provided a lot of numbers but the bottom line is Russia doesn't have enough people to sustain the rate of KIA they are seeing.

                  1. My Esoteric profile image87
                    My Esotericposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                    It seems you selective quoted what I wrote and not the entire content.  Let me go find it.

                  2. My Esoteric profile image87
                    My Esotericposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

                    HERE IS WHAT I WROTE:

                    "The size of the two populations is not particularly relevant.  But to take your concern a step further - Russia is three times as big as Ukraine.  Yet, Ukraine is killing 4.5 Russians for every one Ukrainian. Similarly, Russia is suffering 3 Russian casualty for every 1 Ukrainian casualty sucking up three times the Russian resources as well.  So, that tells me Russia doesn't have enough population to sustain their war.

                    Now, the size of their respective militaries is.  In this case, Russia has 3.2 times more military than Ukraine.  Russia also is 28 times bigger than Ukraine.  Ukraine can concentrate its forces solely on Russia but Russia cannot do the same.  If fact, since Finland joined NATO Putin said he is going station troops along the 830 mile border.  Now, think about that when considering the kill ratio.

                    What Ukraine doesn't have enough of is weapons and ammunition.  If Republicans refuse to keep them armed, they are as good as dead and Putin can move on to his next target - probably Moldova."

          2. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

            Here is where I rebutted your false claim that NATO is getting weak on Ukraine.

            YOU WROTE - "It appears after 3 years  NATO is reevaluating the war. They have been making waves for a few months now. They are speaking about peace and compromise.  I think they are wise in evaluating what they hope to see happen at this point - Compromise.

            2 days ago --

            "NATO Secretary General says Ukraine will have to decide which compromises it will accept in war with Russia – BBC"
            source   https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-68743805

            "NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg has said that Ukraine will have to decide which compromises it is ready to accept in the war with the Russian Federation.

            Source: Jens Stoltenberg in an interview with BBC to be broadcast on Sunday, 7 April, as reported by European Pravda"
            THIS WAS MY RESPONSE

            Details: Although Stoltenberg said that military support is critically important to enable Ukraine to repel Russian forces and force Russian leader Vladimir Putin to give up his goals of occupation, he suggested that Ukraine might also have to make concessions.

            "At the end of the day, it has to be Ukraine that decides what kind of compromises they're willing to do, we need to enable them to be in a position where they actually achieve an acceptable result around the negotiating table," Stoltenberg said.

            He said he was not calling for Ukraine to offer concessions now, and added that "real peace" would be achievable when "Ukraine prevails".

            Stoltenberg also said that there is an "authoritarian" alliance between the Russian Federation, China, Iran and North Korea, with each country giving practical support to the others and all four growing "more and more aligned".

            "China is propping up the Russian war economy, delivering key parts to the defence industry, and in return, Moscow is mortgaging its future to Beijing," Stoltenberg said."

    3. peterstreep profile image80
      peterstreepposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

      It is a war. And like in all wars thousands of innocent people get killed. In WWII the UK, US, Russia killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Germans living their normal life. They were killed because of the consequences of war. A war started by their own leader.

      Here it is hard to say where to start. But it is clear that the full scale war is the consequence of the Oct 7 massacre.
      How would the US have reacted if a bunch of Mexican religious lunatics went over the border and murdered, raped, dismembered and burned American citizens alive?
      I bet the US would have bombed Mexico like crazy and went in with tanks.

      Free Palestine today is a myth. What would it mean? It would mean that as a free woman you don't want to live there. As as a women the only right you will have is to bear a son. Forget anti conception under Hamas law. (one of the reasons why the Gaza strip is highly overpopulated.) Forget legal abortion. Forget being lesbian or gay, that's a death sentence.
      Freedom of speech!!! As long as it fits the regulations and ideology of the Islam...
      Hamas was elected in 2006 and after elected murdered political opponents and never allowed elections again. Free Palestine? What does it mean...

      Nevertheless Natanyahu is doing a terrible job and thousands of innocent lives could have been spared with different politics. Natanyahu is already politically over and done in Israel, as he should have prevented the Oct 7 massacre.
      But he found it more important to have the army closer to the West Bank to defend the illegal Jewish settlers (who should be given prison sentences)
      The Israeli government is influenced to much by the extreme religious Jewish nutcases. And basically what you see here is a classic religious war.

      Should there be a cease fire. Yes, I think so.
      The big question is. How to build a future. It's clear a two state solution does not work.
      I would go for one big Israel where Palestinian people have the same rights as the Israeli. And right to have their own party in the Knesset.
      But I guess that's not what Hamas wants, they want all the Jews gone between the see and the river.....
      I don-t know but it is clear that after this war things have to been done completely different.

      1. Willowarbor profile image61
        Willowarborposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

        It's difficult for me to call this a "war".  That would imply that you have  2 military organizations pitted against each other.  Hamas is a loosely organized and poorly equipped terror group.  I wonder what type of resistance the IDF is actually receiving in GAZA from Hamas "military".  I do see that the IDF causalities are low and many are the result of friendly fire. Terrible accounts of tanks running over their own soldiers. I think it speaks volumes as to the nature of their mission.

        I'm also still waiting to hear from Netanyahu about the ridiculous amount of time it took for forces to respond to the October 7th attack.

        1. peterstreep profile image80
          peterstreepposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

          The reason was, as I hinted at, that the army was for the majority based near the West bank. So it had needed time to respond and go to the attacked kibbutz.
          For this fact alone Netanyahu is politically dead.

          I understand that it is difficult to call it a war. But it is just like the Iraq war, a war with a huge difference in military power. The death toll of the Iraq war was about a million!!!...and about 5000 where from Western allies...
          Did we talk about genocide of the Iraqi people back than? I don't think so.
          But whatever it is, it is horrific.

        2. Readmikenow profile image95
          Readmikenowposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

          "Hamas is a loosely organized and poorly equipped terror group."

          Where did you come up with this?

          Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, which makes up Hamas' armed wing, has an estimated 30,000–40,000 fighters.
          The Brigades, which has existed since 1991, initially relied in part upon suicide bombing campaigns.
          It now has a military arsenal that is believed to include thousands of rockets, including long-range missiles and drones. Hamas officials have said their fighters also possess a range of bombs and mortars.

          Hamas fighters received considerable training and
          assistance, both inside and outside of Gaza. Within the
          Strip, the Qassam Brigades had a structured training
          program, and Hamas personnel from Lebanon, Syria,
          and Iran came to provide instruction or other assistance.
          The advice and guidance provided to Hamas by Hizballah, Syria, and Iran.

          Hamas expected to mount an impressive defense
          using civilians and civilian facilities as cover for its military activity. In addition, Hamas hoped to achieve an
          “image of victory” by carrying out acts with more than
          military significance, such as kidnapping IDF soldiers,
          destroying tanks, or downing airplanes and helicopters.
          Defense of Gaza, however, was not Hamas’s only goal;
          it also intended to bring the war into Israel. At the
          heart of its offensive planning were the rocket artillery
          forces, intended for sustained strikes on Israeli civilian
          and military targets.

          1. Willowarbor profile image61
            Willowarborposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

            What "impressive" defense have they mounted?  The strip is basically rubble at this point.

            Hamas is not a military. It is a terrorist organization.  In terms of its power, it is not a match to any modern military force. Especially the IDF

            'Hamas has a diverse arsenal built up over many years.

            Its armed forces, under the name Al-Qassam Brigades, numbers 15,000 men according to IISS, though it notes Arabic media have put the figure at 40,000.

            They have heavy weapons sourced from across the Middle East -- particularly Iran, Syria and Libya -- and has also sourced handguns and assault rifles from China and other regions.

            It also has a variety of locally-made, improvised explosives and Western sources say enough drones, mines, anti-tank guided missiles, grenade launchers and mortar shells to hold out for a long period, though precise figures are unavailable.

            The majority of its rockets are also locally manufactured and technologically rudimentary."

            By air, land and sea, the Israeli army is vastly more powerful.

            https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/2 … ry-balance

            1. Readmikenow profile image95
              Readmikenowposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

              "By air, land and sea, the Israeli army is vastly more powerful."

              Which makes you wonder why hamas did what they did on October 7th.  They had to have known what was going to happen.

              Like you said, they are a terrorist organization first.  They don't want to militarily defeat an enemy, they want to spread fear among the population.  This is why the IDF must eliminate them.  hamas will sacrifice their own people as they have done on multiple occasions.  Their goal is to get sympathy from the world, which is where they are having success.
              It is a shame civilians are being killed, but this is the fault of hamas.  This entire war with them is the fault of hamas.  Their success is in the PR to the gullible of the world.

              1. My Esoteric profile image87
                My Esotericposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

                Yes, I am sure this is the outcome they expected, the near total ostracization of Israel from overreaction by an equally terroristic leader.

                Yes, they planned on thousands of Palestinians getting killed.  But Netanyahu had a choice, kill tens of thousands or kill thousands.  He chose to former.

                Most of the world can be two things at once, sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinian people and rejecting the terrorists that are in their midst.

                1. peterstreep profile image80
                  peterstreepposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Israel had for years a policy of protecting it's country in a defensive way.
                  I can imagine that the 7 Oct attack was just the last bit that pushed Israel with Netanyahu over the edge. Which Hamas knew.

                  Hamas is working from a extreme religious point of view. They have completely different ethical rules than we work with in the West. For them there is no problem in sacrificing their own people.
                  The west is not used to think in those terms. We see it as slaughter. And the one who pulls the trigger is the guilty one.. (Israel in this case...). But I don't think it's that simple.
                  This whole difference in ethics is what most people find difficult to navigate through. We tend to pick a team. And the people on the left tend to pick the underdog. (The Palestinian people).
                  And the Palestinian people are the victims. Accept Israel is not the only enemy, Hamas is the enemy of the Palestinian people too.
                  And this makes it from a morally point of view complicated. But strangely enough people don't talk about Hamas but condemn Israel on social media. Nobody protests against Hamas. But they do against Israel.
                  Probably most can't fathom the world view and ethics of an extreme religious mindset.
                  This conflict is not a black and white one. Even if the deaths on Palestinian sides are massive. Should the US, the UK, Canada and Russia not have invaded Germany and defeat Hitler, because it would kill hundreds of thousands of innocent Germans?
                  The War in Gaza is a terrible one. With highly complicated moral issues.

              2. Sharlee01 profile image89
                Sharlee01posted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

                Well said

                1. abwilliams profile image68
                  abwilliamsposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Amen and amen.

        3. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

          I am seriously scratching my head about why the IDF has not overrun most of Gaza.  I am wondering if they replaced maneuver warfare which captures land with carpet bombing which kills massive amounts of civilians and a few Hamas.

          1. peterstreep profile image80
            peterstreepposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

            I don't know. Sometimes reasons are pretty banal. A certain general wants to boost his ego over another general...
            Power politics and ego can do irrational things.

            In a discussion between Sam Harris and Eric Weinstein, Weinstein suggested that Israel should have had the policy of by killing one Jew a certain amount of land should be taken from Gaza. So Hamas knows what the consequences are. As Hamas does not care about its own people. But it cares about land.
            A strategy with less lives lost and probably more effective.
            It's all completely nuts. Like the US supported Saddam Husein for a long time. So Natanyahu supported Hamas.

            I think it'is also a highly personal fight.. As Natanyahu's brother was killed in a plane hostage rescue mission in 1976. (Entebbe raid)

            Sam Harris Vs Eric Weinstein: Israel-Palestine

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkg3C8JDi_0

      2. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

        "Forget anti conception under Hamas law. (one of the reasons why the Gaza strip is highly overpopulated.) Forget legal abortion. Forget being lesbian or gay, that's a death sentence.
        Freedom of speech!!! As long as it fits the regulations and ideology of the Islam..." - DAMN, for a moment there I thought you were talking about Idaho, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Kansas, Iowa, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina, and Florida.  I probably forgot a couple.

        1. peterstreep profile image80
          peterstreepposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

          Haha, yes, I thought let's keep the arguments close at home....The US has it's problems with religious nutcases too... (So does Spain at the moment with the rise of the extreme right wing Vox party.- And Opus Dei has a long tradition of power play behind the political scene in Spain as well. Related to the traditional right wing Franco party PP)

  2. IslandBites profile image88
    IslandBitesposted 7 weeks ago

    Tens of thousands of Israeli protesters call for Netanyahu’s removal

    Tens of thousands of people across Israel joined the families of hostages this weekend to protest against the government and call for the removal of Benjamin Netanyahu, as the Israeli prime minister grappled with one of the most serious threats yet to his coalition.

    Im glad people in Israel are protesting.

    An Israeli airstrike on Sunday hit a tent camp in the courtyard of a crowded hospital in central Gaza, killing two Palestinians and injuring another 15, including journalists working nearby.

    Also,

    Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu took responsibility Tuesday for a deadly strike that killed seven aid workers for the charity group World Central Kitchen the day prior.

    Bombing hospitals, killing desperate people wanting food, journalists, aid workers... Blocked aid trucks. Tens of thousands dead palestinians.

    Stop the genocide!

  3. Willowarbor profile image61
    Willowarborposted 7 weeks ago

    I am appalled. We need a cease fire now and absolutely not a penny of American funds going to Israel.  Enough is enough.

    "World Central kitchen is devastated to confirm that seven members of our team have been killed  in an air strike by the IDF in Gaza, the convoy was hit as it was leaving the Deir al-Balah warehouse, where the team had unloaded more than 100 tons of humanitarian food aid brought to Gaza on the maritime route.

    “This is not only an attack against WCK, this is an attack on humanitarian organizations showing up in the most dire of situations where food is being used as a weapon of war. This is unforgivable,” said World Central Kitchen CEO Erin Gore.

    The seven killed are from Australia, Poland, United Kingdom, a dual citizen of the U.S. and Canada, and Palestine.

    Despite coordinating movements with the IDF, the convoy was hit as it was leaving the Deir al-Balah warehouse.

    I am very happy to see the growing protests in Israel against Netanyahu. I am hopeful he will be ousted soon.

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

      I would have opposed your suggestion to stop all aid to Israel until Netanyahu stops being a terrorist a few months ago.  No longer.

    2. Castlepaloma profile image76
      Castlepalomaposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

      From the third world country health conditions observed around the world. Brings me to the  homelessness in Canada is fourth world health conditions level and refugees is a third % of that. .Gaza is a fifth world health condition level. The greatest genocide we have ever seen in our lifetime is Gaza. And the greatest war protest we have ever seen worldwide. War solves nothing, war is good for nothing. And 9 times out of 10, war is murder in a uniform.

  4. Credence2 profile image78
    Credence2posted 7 weeks ago

    I repeat myself, ESO. I have said frequently, Netanyahu is a beast that would end the Palestianian question by destroying the Palestinians. I have criticized Biden for being far too lenient toward Netanyahu and his blood thirsty tactics. We need to send a stern message to him and send it now.

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

      Biden is getting there.  He has a lot more to consider than we do.

  5. IslandBites profile image88
    IslandBitesposted 6 weeks ago

    Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Tuesday admitted that an “unintentional” Israeli airstrike killed “innocent people” in Gaza, after seven workers from World Central Kitchen were bombed.

    Netanyahu said: “Unfortunately, in the last 24 hours there was a tragic case of our forces unintentionally hitting innocent people in the Gaza Strip.

    “It happens in war, we check it to the end, we are in contact with the governments, and we will do everything so that this thing does not happen again.”

    World Central Kitchen, the U.S.-based nonprofit which provides meals to civilians suffering from hunger due to conflicts and natural disasters, blamed the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) in a statement on its website.

    “The WCK team was traveling in a deconflicted zone in two armored cars branded with the WCK logo and a soft skin vehicle,” the group’s statement read.

    World Central Kitchen added that its convoy was hit “despite coordinating movements with the IDF.”


    https://img.lemde.fr/2024/04/02/0/0/5472/3648/700/0/75/0/c692c47_2024-04-02t174901z-2113053649-rc21y6ay3a5f-rtrmadp-3-israel-palestinians-gaza-charity.JPG

    Israeli daily Haaretz reported on Tuesday that three missiles were fired one after the other at the convoy after it left a warehouse in Deir al-Balah. According to Haaretz's sources from the Israeli defense forces, after the first strike, some of the convoy's passengers were seen leaving the car for one of the other two. They continued driving but another missile hit them, with the wounded who survived this second strike moving to the third car, which was also eventually hit.

    ...

    ...

    ...

  6. Readmikenow profile image95
    Readmikenowposted 6 weeks ago

    I suppose I come from a different perspective because of my background in the military.

    What the Palestinians did in October was grounds for all-out war.  When you cross that line, there are no holds barred.

    No Jews have been permitted in Gaza since 2005.  They had their own territory.  They had aid pouring in from around the world and the United Nations.  They chose not to use that aid to better their people, they chose to use it to build terror tunnels and launch attacks on Israel and build a military force.

    Prior to October thousands of citizens from Gaza would go into Israel for work on a daily basis.  This accommodation was used to gather intelligence on targets to attack for October.  Israel has held itself in check for many years of attacks from Gaza.  Now, Hamas must be eliminated.

    In 2010, I visited Israel and went to Gaza to see it for myself.  They had many poor areas but they had some extremely wealthy area.  There were areas that would rival anything you see in Beverly Hills.  The people from Gaza told me those were places where the leaders of Hamas lived.

    Hamas has placed weapons in hospitals and under schools.  They have terror tunnels under residential homes as well as hospitals and schools.  This is an entire society with one goal of destroying Israel.

    Israel cannot stop and must finish the eradication of Hamas.  War is not pretty.  It is ugly.  It involves deaths.  It is war.

    This was started by Hamas and if Hamas wants it to end they should surrender.  Japan surrendered to stop the possible mass destruction of their people.  It is time for Hamas to surrender.

    There can no longer be a Gaza without military occupation.

    Israel didn't start this war but they will fight it and win.  Israel has been a nation state in that part of the Middle East since the Bronze Age.  This is their land and the land of their ancestors.

    1. Kathleen Cochran profile image75
      Kathleen Cochranposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      RMN: For once, I agree with every word you have written here.

    2. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      There is, in my opinion, a fatal flaw in your analysis - it wasn't the Palestinians who did that, it was their masters Hamas.  It is just like saying that the German people were responsible for WW II rather than Hitler.

      The Palestinians had no choice in who governs them and they had no say in the decision to attack Israel.

      While Israel certainly didn't deserve what happened on Oct 7, their Trump-like leader, Netanyahu, has some responsibility because he continued to illegally confiscate Palestinian land in the West Bank.

      I disagree, that war is a "no holds barred" affair.  It does have rules and both Hamas and Netanyahu and his right-wing henchmen are violating them.

      You may be right about Gaza because Netanyahu has turned every Palestinian living there into a terrorist or terrorist supporter for generations to come.

      Israel has not been a nation state since the Bronze age, there was a long hiatus between when the Romans dissolved them and when the UN brought them back to life.  That said, it seems that the PLO may be bowing to Biden's negotiations to drop certain anti-Israeli positions so that we can agree to let them govern Gaza.

      I don't disagree that Israel must neuter Hamas.  I don't think it is possible to "eliminate" them, but they can make them ineffective.  They just don't need to wipe out the Palestinian people in the process.

      1. Readmikenow profile image95
        Readmikenowposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

        Their terror tunnels and weapons caches in hospitals and school were done with the permission of the Palestinian people. 

        Germany paid a huge price for electing Adolph Hitler to power.  Palestinians are also paying a huge price for electing Hamas to power.  If they were so against Hamas, they would join with Israel in fighting them.

        1. abwilliams profile image68
          abwilliamsposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

          Amen Mike!

          This isn't about picking your favorite team and rooting for them!

          Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, etc.....don't want to co-exist with Israel, they want Israel annihilated! They don't want to work with Israel, have peace with Israel, to live in harmony with Israelis....
          They want them blown off the map!!
          Israel can never let their guard down, ever again, as they did prior to Oct. 7, 2023. They must stay on guard, on offense, their existence (and I would add) humanity's existence, is counting on it.

          1. Readmikenow profile image95
            Readmikenowposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

            Now, there are two ways to enter Gaza.  One is through Israel.  The other is through Egypt.  You have to ask yourself why Egypt closed their border with Gaza.  Palestinians are no longer permitted to go into Egypt.  Why?  They know what Palestinians are like and don't want them in their country.  They are a society that focused on committing and and promoting terrorism.

            1. My Esoteric profile image87
              My Esotericposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

              That doesn't seem to hold water on the West Bank, does it.  It is the Israeli right who are the terrorists there.

              1. Readmikenow profile image95
                Readmikenowposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                I disagree.  The West Bank is divided into three different zones as per the Oslo accords.  A, B, and C. 

                There have been polls conducted that showed Palestinians in the area would prefer to be under the Israeli government.

                I've gone to the West Bank in the early 1980s and as last as 2010.  What a difference.  Going to Bethlehem and seeing the Church of the Nativity was much easier int the 1980s. At that time the Muslims would greet the Christians because they had things to sell.  They made quite a bit of money.  In 2010, there was quite a bit of anxiety.  Muslims are no longer anxious to see Christians around Christmas time.  It is not beyond them to attack a Christian visiting their holy sights in Bethlehem.

                The Palestinian authority has in their charter payments to those who kill Jews.  How can a society be considered civilized if they have in their charter payments to murder members of another society?

                Israel has provided aid in many forms to the Palestinians in the West Bank.  They have provide food, medical care and more.  Palestinians still regularly attack Israel.

                This says a lot about Palestinians.

                1. My Esoteric profile image87
                  My Esotericposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                  We know what the rules say but we also know how Netanyahu breaks them regularly, often by stealing their land.  Explain why Biden had to sanction several West Bank Israelis for terrorist activities.

                  Face it, Netanyahu has blood on his hands as well in this. I am also aware that many, many Israeli (let alone most of the free world) oppose Netanyahu's tactics and his denial of Palestinians to live freely - even if Hamas goes away.

        2. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

          And I absolutely disagree with that claim.  The Palestinian people had no way  to object to the building of those tunnels as Navalny supporters had to protest his murder without getting locked up or killed.

          Are you trying to tell me those elections were free and fair as opposed to voting with a rifle pointed at your head, maybe even literally?

          Either way, you seem to suggesting the large scale massacre of civilians is the only way out whether it be by Hamas killing them if they support Israel or by Netanyahu trying to kill Hamas.

          I simply don't buy that line of reasoning.

  7. abwilliams profile image68
    abwilliamsposted 6 weeks ago

    Amen Mike!

    This isn't about picking your favorite team and rooting for them!
    Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, etc.....don't want to co-exist with Israel, they want Israel annihilated! They don't want to work with Israel, have peace with Israel, to live in harmony with Israelis....
    They want them blown off the map!!
    Israel can never let their guard down, ever again, as they did prior to Oct. 7, 2023. They must stay on guard, on offense, their existence (and I would add) humanity's existence, is counting on it.

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      That works both ways, you know.  Netanyahu doesn't want to work with any of those terrorist organizations (as well he shouldn't) NOR does he want to work with the peaceful faction of the Palestinian people; he would rather have them dead.

      Thankfully, much of Israel seems opposed to his warmongering and want him replaced.  One of people on the war council has called for early elections to get rid of that criminal (like Trump, Netanyahu is under indictment and doing everything legal or illegal to get out of being held accountable)

  8. My Esoteric profile image87
    My Esotericposted 6 weeks ago

    Finally! President Biden is laying down the law to Netanyahu to stop massacring civilians and aid workers (those killings were no accident) or else the US position vis-a-vis Israel my change.

    Biden is now apparently calling for an immediate cease fire.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/04/poli … index.html

    1. wilderness profile image94
      wildernessposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      "(those killings were no accident)"

      What are you using as evidence that those that shot the aid workers knew who they were and intentionally killed them?  Or is that just more nonsense, a claim with any evidence, made to throw dirt and nothing else?

  9. Kathleen Cochran profile image75
    Kathleen Cochranposted 6 weeks ago

    And what about the hostages?

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      He allegedly told Netanyahu to work with Hamas (who is not a willing partner either), to get them back.  I got the impression, however, that Biden's call for a ceasefire no longer depended on a return of the hostages; however, I may be wrong on that.

  10. IslandBites profile image88
    IslandBitesposted 6 weeks ago

    Israel’s wartime Cabinet approved the opening of a key border crossing in northern Gaza as pressure has mounted for the region to get more critical humanitarian aid access to struggling Palestinians.

    The Israeli government will also increase the amount of “Jordanian aid through Kerem Shalom,” according to the statement.

    The apparent move to open Erez comes after significant pressure on Israel from the U.S. and the international community to get more humanitarian aid into the besieged strip.

    The United Nations is warning of famine in northern Gaza as Palestinians are struggling to access basic needs like food and water amid Israel’s war against Hamas.

    President Biden, who has pressed for more humanitarian aid into Gaza, called Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Thursday to discuss his concerns about the war, including the need for a cease-fire and a hostage release deal. Hamas is holding some 100 hostages believed to still be alive in Gaza.

    On Thursday, White House National Security Council spokesperson Adrienne Watson welcomed the steps by the Israeli government, stating they “must now be fully and rapidly implemented.”

    “As the President said today on the call, U.S. policy with respect to Gaza will be determined by our assessment of Israel’s immediate action on these and other steps, including steps to protect innocent civilians and the safety of aid workers,” the White House said in a press release.

    “We are prepared to work in full coordination with the Government of Israel, the Governments of Jordan and Egypt, the United Nations, and humanitarian organizations, to ensure that these important steps are implemented and result in a significant increase in humanitarian assistance reaching civilians in dire need throughout Gaza over the coming days and weeks.”

    Apparently, the pressure is finally working. Lets hope it does.

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      Amen!

      1. Readmikenow profile image95
        Readmikenowposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

        Why is there no pressure to open up the border crossing into Gaza from Egypt?

        1. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

          How do you know there hasn't been?  Isn't pressure from Biden the reason why Rafah is open to humanitarian aid now and has been for months?  Wasn't he responsible for getting Egypt to accept injured dual citizens from Gaza to its hospitals?

  11. My Esoteric profile image87
    My Esotericposted 6 weeks ago

    IDF says "A "serious violation" of commands and standard procedures: What IDF report says on aid strike"

    There is little doubt in my mind it was a targeted attack with the purpose of denying aid to the Palestinian people.

    https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live … index.html

  12. IslandBites profile image88
    IslandBitesposted 6 weeks ago

    U.N. human rights body calls for halt to weapons shipments to Israel
    The Associated Press

    The U.N.’s top human rights body has called on countries to stop selling or shipping weapons to Israel in a resolution that aims to help prevent rights violations against Palestinians amid Israel’s military campaign in Gaza.

    The Human Rights Council, which has 47 member countries, voted 28-6 in favor of the resolution, with 13 abstentions.

    Western countries were divided. The U.S. and Germany opposed the resolution, France and Japan abstained, while Belgium, Finland and Luxembourg voted in favor.


    Germany opposed the resolution, but announced this. So I guess they also put pressure there.

    Israel has 'no more excuses' on Gaza aid, Germany says


    MAINZ, Germany — Israel has "no more excuses" and must quickly implement its announcements on increasing the flow of aid into Gaza, Germany has said today.

    In a post on X, German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock said: "The people of #Gaza need every aid package now. That is why we have worked hard to open the #Erez border crossing & the port of #Ashdod for aid deliveries. We expect the Israeli government to implement its announcements quickly. No more excuses."

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      Biden needs to hold up the delivery of the 2000 lbs bombs set to be delivered to Israel shortly.  They don't need to find their way to Gaza.

  13. My Esoteric profile image87
    My Esotericposted 6 weeks ago

    "At the same time, Netanyahu and his government are under mounting pressure at home, with protesters back on the streets in large numbers calling for his resignation."

    "Israel launched the war immediately after the deadly October 7 terror attacks by Hamas. At that time, the Israeli government said the operation had two goals: eliminating Hamas and bringing back the hostages taken by the militants to Gaza." - Neither has been met.

    One of two things is going on: 1) Netanyahu doesn't know what he is doing or 2) he does, and that plan is to wipe out the Palestinians.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/05/midd … index.html

    "Israel rocked by largest protests since war began as Netanyahu faces growing pressure"

    https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/01/middleea … index.html

  14. My Esoteric profile image87
    My Esotericposted 6 weeks ago

    "Former House speaker Nancy Pelosi joins calls to halt US arms sales to Israel"

    That would be a great idea while Netanyahu is in power.

    https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live … index.html

  15. Readmikenow profile image95
    Readmikenowposted 6 weeks ago

    The Son of a Founder of Hamas was on Dr. Phil.  He is strongly against the group.  What he has to say about it is fascinating.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPomqJz-qYc

  16. My Esoteric profile image87
    My Esotericposted 6 weeks ago

    Sen Elizabeth Warren has joined the chorus of suggesting Netanyahu's total disregard for Palestinian lives in his prosecution of his war to eliminate Hamas (a laudable goal, btw) may amount to genocide. 

    In the last 6 months, Netanyahu as managed to kill about 2% of the population in Gaza and I would wager to say injured over 10 - 20%,  Oh, this is in addition to the 10,000 to 12,000 Hamas he has rightly killed.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/08/poli … index.html

    1. Readmikenow profile image95
      Readmikenowposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      This was caused by Hamas.  If they cared about their people, Hamas would surrender.

      1. abwilliams profile image68
        abwilliamsposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

        Amen! ALL blood in this, is on the hands of Hamas, and Hamas alone.

        1. Willowarbor profile image61
          Willowarborposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

          This rhetoric about civilians is absolutely not true. "They could’ve risen up, they could have fought against that evil regime.”

          The last time Palestinians were allowed to vote was in 2006.


          At present, children make up roughly half of Gaza’s population, meaning only a fraction of the territory’s current population ever cast a ballot for Hamas.

          Additionally, 59 percent of Gazans said they could not criticize Hamas authorities without fear. These data points are important in understanding why the second part of the argument for collective blame (“Why don’t they just get rid of them?”) is nonsensical.

          Overthrowing a government, even in a pseudo-state like Gaza, is much easier said than done. This is doubly true when the government is a violent organization of religious fanatics. Many Gazans would prefer not to be governed by Hamas militants, but they can’t simply start up a campaign to get rid of them, not without grave risks to their lives, livelihoods, and families. For one thing, they are too busy struggling to survive from day to day. 

          Also, many are ignoring the fact that Netanyahu propped up Hamas by letting Qatari cash flow to them.  Netanyahu has always made it clear that he did not want a two-state solution.  Maintaining the power of Hamas made it easy for him to say that he does not have good faith negotiators on the other side.

          "Whoever is against a Palestinian state should be for transferring the funds to Gaza, because maintaining a separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza helps prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state,” The Jerusalem Post quoted Prime Minister Netanyahu as saying in 2019.

          This issue is much more complex than what is  being presented on this forum.

          For the life of me, I cannot understand the argument that says if  a fanatical group such as Hamas doesn't care about their people then we shouldn't care either.  That is our justification for turning a blind eye to innocent people being murdered in Gaza daily?    Personally, I can't square that with my own morality.

          1. abwilliams profile image68
            abwilliamsposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

            Then we are in agreement, ALL blood is on the hands of Hamas.

            1. Willowarbor profile image61
              Willowarborposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

              Netanyahu has just reaffirmed his intent of opening fire on Rafah. 
              Remember when he and the IDF encouraged the Gazans to move to that city?  Well, now about 1.4 million of them are there awaiting slaughter.  This has your blessing?   Let's just throw a bit of common sense in there also. Why would Hamas head toward Rafah anyway when the IDF has  talked about it's plans for weeks?


              This is not about eliminating hamas. That will never be done. Hamas is as  an ideology and with every death of innocent civilians, Netanyahu will make it all the easier for terrorist groups to recruit like crazy.  Let's be realistic, this is about killing as many Palestinians as possible and likely trying to permanently drive them from Gaza.  Netanyahu's actions have really resulted in untold damage to Israel's reputation around the world. 

              Question... Do you believe that the number of casualties is acceptable? The actions of the IDF are reasonable?

              1. wilderness profile image94
                wildernessposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                "Why would Hamas head toward Rafah anyway when the IDF has  talked about it's plans for weeks?"

                Because human shields are very often quite effective and they don't believe Israel will go against world opinion.  They are thus safe, or at least more so than they would be elsewhere.

                1. Willowarbor profile image61
                  Willowarborposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Human shields? I think Hamas can see at this point that Israel has no problem killing anyone in their sight including hostages waving white flags and clearly marked aid trucks.  We're about to see a real blood bath in Rafah and it will serve no point other than strengthening recruitment for Hamas and other terrorist groups.  The human shield argument, to me, is just an excuse  Netanyahu is using to kill indiscriminately.

                  I think most of us can see what his goal is.  I know there are many on this forum who support what's going on but I certainly do not.

                  1. My Esoteric profile image87
                    My Esotericposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                    Damn, I forgot about the Israeli hostages Netanyahu gunned down.  That went over well back home.

                2. My Esoteric profile image87
                  My Esotericposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                  How has that worked out for them?

          2. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

            Nailed it.

        2. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

          Most blood is on Hamas.  Netanyahu has his share.

      2. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

        I don't disagree with that but it is a fools errand to think the Hamas cares about anything else other than eliminating the Jewish state.

        That said, I make the same comment about Netanyahu and his desire to wipe out Palestinians - not just Hamas, but the who Palestinian state.  I have a very hard time seeing the difference anymore between Netanyahu and his far-right friends and Hamas or Hezbollah.

        That is why there is such an uprising in Israel to push him out.

  17. abwilliams profile image68
    abwilliamsposted 6 weeks ago

    I think what "Hamas sees" is that Israelis want to live!

    1. Willowarbor profile image61
      Willowarborposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      Do you support netanyahu's prosecution of this war

      1. abwilliams profile image68
        abwilliamsposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

        He can't stop or they will all die!! There will be no Israel!!
        I support their RIGHT to exist and this is what it takes for them to go on living.
        War is hell, no doubt about it.  I hate it, I hate war. I wish we could all live in peace,  but sadly, not all on this planet want the same!

        1. Willowarbor profile image61
          Willowarborposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

          Hamas, which is not much more than a organized Street gang can take out the military of a country as sophisticated as Israel? what  of the right of innocent Palestinians to live?

          Over 30,000 killed so far, how many more need to die?

          1. abwilliams profile image68
            abwilliamsposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

            Not all 3,000+ died, but in one single day on Oct. 7, 2023, that's the number of innocent citizens that Hamas attempted to slaughter, when they broke into their communities and into their homes.

            1. Willowarbor profile image61
              Willowarborposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

              Okay, good to know you believe netanyahu's response is acceptable and appropriate.

              1. abwilliams profile image68
                abwilliamsposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                Oh good grief, not sure why I bother...

                1. Willowarbor profile image61
                  Willowarborposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                  A very simple question, do you support the actions of Netanyahu?

            2. My Esoteric profile image87
              My Esotericposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

              Yes, all 30,000 (you forgot a zero) have died.  The wounded is in the hundreds of thousands.  Even your reduced number doesn't work, I think Hamas managed to kill 1,200 to 1,300 mostly peace loving Israelis.

        2. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

          The trouble with that reasoning is that it is simply not true.  Hamas can and have made things miserable sometimes for the Israeli state, but they are totally incapable of destroying that state.

          But, between Netanyahu and Hamas, they very will could destroy world peace.

  18. abwilliams profile image68
    abwilliamsposted 6 weeks ago

    Yes.

  19. abwilliams profile image68
    abwilliamsposted 6 weeks ago

    Do you support Hamas?

    1. Willowarbor profile image61
      Willowarborposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      No. Because I do not support the killing of innocent Palestinians en mass does not mean I support Hamas.  Over 30,000 killed, half of which were children. That is not acceptable.

  20. abwilliams profile image68
    abwilliamsposted 6 weeks ago

    Your blame should be directed at Hamas, not Netanyahu.

    1. Willowarbor profile image61
      Willowarborposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      https://hubstatic.com/16988720.jpg

      Netanyahu did this... 10 years old and by the way he died. Starved to death. Boy that'll really show Hamas.  Netanyahu, in my opinion couldn't care less about Hamas.  Hamas has a very little capability and power.  His goal is to kill as many Palestinians as he can and drive the remainder out of Gaza.  How many children need to die?

      1. abwilliams profile image68
        abwilliamsposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

        I would show pictures of the events which started all of this, but I will spare you.

      2. Sharlee01 profile image89
        Sharlee01posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        I couldn't trace the origin of the photo, and even a Google image search yielded little information. It's heart-wrenching to witness someone in such dire health circumstances; it evokes a strong sense of empathy. The atrocities of war, as exemplified by the events of Oct 7th, where innocent men, women, and children were brutally murdered, are truly unimaginable. It's undeniable that a faction of Palestinians committed grave acts of genocide by invading a sovereign nation and causing the deaths of over 1,000 people.  The suffering of this child holds as much significance as that of those who were tragically murdered. 

        The delivery of essential aid appears to be hindered by ongoing conflicts in the Rafa region. One can only hope for a swift resolution to this war. It's evident that Netanyahu remains steadfast in his commitment to his people. His recent declaration regarding the potential use of nuclear weapons against Iran if they show aggression underscores the gravity of the situation.

        One can't help but question why Egypt persists in denying entry to Gazians. One might expect them to show compassion towards these civilians. Yet, surprisingly, there's little uproar prompting an inquiry into this matter. It would certainly help civilians get the aid being sent, and be out of the final area where the war is being fought, and end.  One could predict it will be over soon.   I feel Egypt should have helped the Palestinians.

        Article -  "However, Egypt, the only country aside from Israel that has a border with Gaza, has rebuffed pressure to accept Palestinian refugees displaced by Israel.

        Reports have indicated that Israeli officials have tried to lobby international support to compel Egypt to accept refugees from Gaza.

        Egyptian President Abdel Fattah Al-Sisi, however, has been adamant in refusing to allow humanitarian corridors or the entry of large numbers of Palestinians into Sinai. He has called it a “red line” that, if crossed, would “liquidate the Palestinian cause”.

        In recent days, the UN’s High Commissioner for Refugees, Filippo Grandi, has validated Egypt’s position. Grandi said displacing Gazans to Egypt would be “catastrophic” for both Egypt and the Palestinians, who, he indicated, would likely not be allowed to return."
        https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/ … nians.html

        Can we not ask why Hamas has no empathy for these civilians?  They use them and hide among them putting them in harm's way. They must know they have all but lost this war at this point.

        1. Willowarbor profile image61
          Willowarborposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          "The suffering of this child holds as much significance as that of those who were tragically murdered. "

          Truer words never written, I am deeply appreciative of this recognition.


          https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_ … n-in-gaza/

          https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/program/n … ne-in-gaza

          "It's evident that Netanyahu remains steadfast in his commitments to his people."

          His people don't support him though. I'm sure you will appreciate this... His approval rating is lower than Biden's! 

          "Only 15% of Israelis want Netanyahu to keep job after Gaza war, poll finds"

          https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea … 024-01-02/

          'One can't help but question why Egypt persists in denying entry to Gazans. One might expect them to show compassion towards these civilians. Yet, surprisingly, there's little uproar prompting an inquiry into this matter."

          I think the rest of your post answered this question but...

          "Their refusal is rooted in fear that Israel wants to force a permanent expulsion of Palestinians into their countries and nullify Palestinian demands for statehood" Egypt doesn't want to be part of another Nakba.

          https://apnews.com/article/palestinian- … 878b66bd3d


          "The atrocities of war, as exemplified by the events of Oct 7th, where innocent men, women, and children were brutally murdered, are truly unimaginable"

          As are the  deaths of over 30,000 palestinians, half of which are children. 

          "Can we not ask why Hamas has no empathy for these civilians?

          I personally don't care what the policies of Hamas are. They are a little more than a pumped up street gang.  Because a terrorist gang has no respect for innocent people, means I shouldn't care of their fate? I cannot reach that conclusion.

        2. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          I don't buy that Netanyahu has a commitment to Israelis.  He looks on Israelis as a means to protecting his own ass from prosecution.  He and are two peas in a self-absorbed, narcissistic pod that only care for themselves.

          Personally, I don't consider Hamas being any more Palestinian as I do bin Landen being Muslim.  They are both terrorists and have forsaken where they came from.

          The hindrance of aid is 95% Netanyahu policy and 5% Hamas policy.  - https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 … srael-war/

          Here is why Egypt (and Jordan and Syria and Lebanon) don't like Palestinians.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 … srael-war/

          It seems to me it is pure racism.

          Hamas has no empathy because they are committed to terrorism, in my opinion.

    2. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      Accept Netanyahu is and has been a large part of the problem starting with stealing land from the Palestinians for the last 20 years and opposing the two-state solution.  So long as Netanyahu mimics Hamas by denying the other side a right to exist, this will never stop.

      Also, it would help if Netanyahu would stop killing his own hostages.

  21. abwilliams profile image68
    abwilliamsposted 5 weeks ago

    Ignore my argument, ignore the point(s) I have been attempting to make (without writing a book) but you cannot ignore this, you cannot ignore history, you cannot ignore the insight of the son of a Hamas co-founder:

    https://youtu.be/btVFgqkgkzw?si=md91Ur7yIxyeG2gx

    https://youtu.be/pjOEJumoABg?si=AhM6GSYlBqSHEk83

    1. Willowarbor profile image61
      Willowarborposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      Regardless of the past history (which is highly debatable) the killing and starving of innocent people changes nothing.  The notion that Hamas poses an existential threat to Israel is untenable and the idea that they will be eradicated is erroneous. 

      Some Israelis are beginning to acknowledge this reality.  Gadi Eisenkot,  a senior minister in Israel’s  Cabinet, said that “whoever speaks of absolute defeat [of Hamas] is not speaking the truth,”

      Israel must make choice. It can continue to violently impose its will on the Palestinians in an illusory quest for security or it can finally recognize that its own peace and security is bound up with the creation of an independent Palestinian state and acknowledge, in word and in deed, that Palestinian lives are as precious as Israeli lives.

      1. Readmikenow profile image95
        Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        "It can continue to violently impose its will on the Palestinians in an illusory quest for security or it can finally recognize that its own peace and security"

        It's called self defense. There are enemies throughout history nobody thought could be defeated and they were.  Hamas needs to be destroyed and Israel needs to fight until they are destroyed is every way, shape and form.  Why are there no calls for Hamas to surrender?  What has Hamas done to lessen their civilian casualities?  Let me answer that...nothing.

        "creation of an independent Palestinian state"

        Gaza was an independent Palestinian state.  NO Jews were permitted to go into there since 2005.  They had their own elections.  They chose the way of terrorism.  Now, because of Hamas, it will have to come under military control for the foreseeable future.  This is because of Hamas.

        I dare you to watch this video and see how Palestinians raise their children to hate Jews and to kill them.  Children.  You can't have a society this sick left unchecked. 

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPomqJz-qYc

  22. abwilliams profile image68
    abwilliamsposted 5 weeks ago

    You didn't watch the videos I shared, otherwise, you wouldn't have responded as you did!
    A Palestinian statehood never came to fruition, they were not interested. Every effort from Israel (including land for peace) are rejected! Palestinians walk away, because they don't want peace and harmony with Israel. They want Israel annihilated.
    Please watch the first video shared, particularly, from around the 30 minute mark on, if you do not have time to watch the entire video.

  23. My Esoteric profile image87
    My Esotericposted 5 weeks ago

    Both sides resort to terrorism when they feel like it.

    Israeli settlers storm West Bank village, setting cars and homes ablaze

    "According to Abu-Alia, the Israeli military arrived at the scene at around 3 p.m. local time, but did not stop the settlers from attacking the village. Instead, Israeli soldiers allowed them to raid homes, prevented Palestinian residents from moving around and blocked ambulances from reaching the injured, he alleged."

    One has to wonder when they will start raping the women.

    https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/12/middleea … index.html

    1. Readmikenow profile image95
      Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      Very uneventful by Palestinian standards.

      1. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        I imagine the Palestinians who were on the receiving end of that Israeli terrorist event didn't think so.  Now, maybe by Hamas standards it wasn't much.  If you had written that, I could agree.

        1. Readmikenow profile image95
          Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          Hamas are palestinians.

          1. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            No, Hamas are terrorists who used to be Palestinians.

            1. Readmikenow profile image95
              Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

              Ah, the semantics game.

              Then, what is a palestinian an why would hamas be considered "used to be palestinian?"

              1. My Esoteric profile image87
                My Esotericposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                It is not a game, is it.  The distinction is real.  What you seem to be attempting to do is establish that all Palestinians are terrorists to which I will counter with all Israeli's are therefore terrorists.

  24. Kathleen Cochran profile image75
    Kathleen Cochranposted 5 weeks ago

    The hostages?  They may be a mute point by now. There may not be any more of them still alive to exchange. Hamas didn't have 40 to meet the latest criteria to exchange for Palestinian prisoners.

    If that is true, what is there to stop Israel from finishing what Hamas started?

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      Clarification - Hamas said they didn't have 40 that would meet the criteria (women and children) from the negotiations.   They still have plenty of IDF and other males being held.

      If fact, Israel's counter was that if Hamas can't produce 40 women and children, then make up the difference with males.

  25. Willowarbor profile image61
    Willowarborposted 5 weeks ago

    From Senator Cotton concerning protests..

    "If something like this happened in Arkansas on a bridge there, let’s just say that there would be a lot of very wet criminals that would have been tossed overboard, not by law enforcement, but by the people whose road they are blocking,” Cotton said. “If they glued their hands to a car or pavement it would probably be pretty painful to have their skin ripped off, but I think that’s the way we’d handle it in Arkansas."

    Who agrees? Who agrees with Senator Cotton?  If you have a problem, take it into your own hands, do not wait for the police to sort it out. Throw people off a bridge, tear their skin off ... Does law enforcement endorse this? Who needs the police when we can just rely on vigilantes?

    https://newrepublic.com/post/180729/rep … a-protests

    1. Readmikenow profile image95
      Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      Well, might motivate them to get a permit to protest and no longer block roads and prevent people from getting where they want to go.  This includes ambulances, people trying to get home to their kids, etc.

      I'd have to say having people toss them into the river would make them think about obeying the law and respecting other people's rights. 

      It could end up being a good thing.

      1. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        But the people doing the tossing should be arrested as well for assault, battery, maybe attempted murder?

        In any case, your answer seems to support vigilantism and doing away the police.  Why have police if the vigilantes can take care of it?

      2. abwilliams profile image68
        abwilliamsposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        I agree!
        I attempted to show actual video of good citizens simply dragging (not hitting, not harming) rag doll protestors, impeding traffic, out of the way, on Facebook. (not sure where it was)
        I instantly received the message that if I chose to post it, I could be banned for showing violent content!

        I am so sick of the constant  threats from FB, HP, etc. about how I need to check myself..... all while crazy people are blocking traffic and screwing up people's lives, squatting in other people's homes and suing the owners attempting to get them out and on and on and on... Mad world!!

        1. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          Had those protestors been posting violence on their FB pages, they would have been warned just as you were.

          1. abwilliams profile image68
            abwilliamsposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            There was no violence. If they had stomped on them or ran over them with their cars, yeah, but not pulling them out of the busy road. There was nothing violent about how it was handled.

            1. My Esoteric profile image87
              My Esotericposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

              Dragging someone is the definition of violence.  Only police have a right move people forcibly from one place to another.  If a citizen does it, it is a crime, a violent one.

              1. abwilliams profile image68
                abwilliamsposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                Dragging them out of a busy road with a ton of ticked off, late motorists, is an act of kindness.

      3. Willowarbor profile image61
        Willowarborposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        Tossing people off the Golden gate bridge would most certainly result in death, so that's okay? Justified? Throw someone off a bridge because you need to get home to heat up your kids dinner?  Do I get to decide when I need to toss somebody aside because I'm in a hurry?  Maybe just teach your kids to heat those chicken nuggets, it's a life skill!  Tossing people off of  a bridges and ripping off their skin, a Christian thing? Right? Like ES0  said , what do we need police for? If you're doing something I don't agree with I can just take action on you?  That's what Cotton is saying.  You can't have it both ways.

      4. MizBejabbers profile image87
        MizBejabbersposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        "I'd have to say having people toss them into the river would make them think about obeying the law and respecting other people's rights."

        No, Mike, they wouldn't be able to think about anything because they would be killed in such a great fall. I can't think of a better way to commit suicide than to jump off the Broadway Bridge at Little Rock unless you are a professional diver from great heights.

    2. Sharlee01 profile image89
      Sharlee01posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      If anyone glued their hands to my car. I would certainly want them arrested on the spot for the destruction of my property, and I would most definitely press charges. If officers were standing down, as they have been known to do in some cities.   I certainly would also If I had room to move my car a bit back up and go forward this ass clown would be pulled along for the ride. All that comes to mind is "Make My Day".

      Hey, it looks like the police did a good job in these recent protests, and I was pleased to see many were arrested.

    3. MizBejabbers profile image87
      MizBejabbersposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      I am so ashamed to admit that my state has sent this stooge to represent us in Congress, but it seems that the likes of him are what our citizens are electing these days.

      But Senator Cotton is an admirer of Trump, and every now and then seeks to emulate his idol. What he said would never happen because anyone who was thrown off a bridge into the Arkansas River probably would not survive because it's a big river with tall bridges. The person who tossed them in the river would be charged with murder, in that case. So accept Senator Stooge as the blowhard he is and give him no more mind, or admire him if you are a great supporter of Trump and his ilk. I'm sure he is trying to get Trump's attention because he would love to be his running mate.

      Arkansas seems to be pretty good right now for electing politicians of poor quality. Case in point:  Governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders. The Arkansas General Assembly is conducting an investigation into the purchase of a lectern for $19,000 by Governor Huckabee Sanders who turned it over to the Republican Party. Huckabee Sanders, as you probably recall, was Trump's White House Press secretary for two years, 2017-2019. According to the article the audit found seven possible violations concerning the purchase.
      https://www.thv11.com/article/news/poli … %2C%20Ark.

  26. abwilliams profile image68
    abwilliamsposted 5 weeks ago

    Oh lighten up, everything said is not meant literally.

  27. abwilliams profile image68
    abwilliamsposted 5 weeks ago

    Different discussion,  but I would love to see that same passion from you, when the topic is killing babies.

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      You might, if the topic was killing real, living and breathing babies.  But it is not.

      1. abwilliams profile image68
        abwilliamsposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        Oh but it is.....

        1. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          What law says it is?

          1. abwilliams profile image68
            abwilliamsposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            I would have to get personal.....

    2. Willowarbor profile image61
      Willowarborposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      Speaking of killing babies..Let me know when a doctor at a hospital puts a zygote, embryo,  or fetus at 13 weeks (when the vast majority of abortions happen) on life support when a woman presents with a miscarriage.  These doctors aren't doing that because life is not viable at that point. Should they be prosecuted as murderers?   They are letting these humans die.  Is that a problem?  Doctors literally letting "babies' die?  Why?

      Please, answer a direct question

      1. abwilliams profile image68
        abwilliamsposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        Yes, sadly, some women do miscarriage. It's every bit as agonizing as losing a child outside of the womb.
        What is your direct question?

      2. Readmikenow profile image95
        Readmikenowposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

        Ah, the pain experienced by a 13 week unborn child being ripped from its mother and killed must be tremendous for an unborn child. 

        "Study shows preborn babies feel pain as early as 12 weeks’ gestation

        A new study titled “Reconsidering fetal pain” was published in the Journal of Medical Ethics earlier this year. One of the most compelling things to note about this study is the differing worldviews of the authors. A pro-life and a pro-choice researcher came together to jointly address the updated evidence for fetal pain. One author believes that abortion is unethical, and the other believes that abortionion is “necessary for women’s health and autonomy.” While they drew different moral implications of fetal pain existing in an earlier gestational age, they were able to agree that fetal pain does exist in in a gestational window of 12-24 weeks.

        https://erlc.com/resource-library/artic … gestation/

        An unborn child is pretty developed at 13 weeks.



        Your baby is now fully formed. They are moving about vigorously in your uterus and they can move their arms and legs, suck their thumb and form a fist.

        "Your baby's testes or ovaries are now fully developed, and a penis or clitoris is still growing. That means by the time you have your 20 week ultrasound, your doctor might be able to see the sex of your baby and share this with you if you are wanting to know.
        Your baby's organs, including their liver and pancreas, are starting to function and their vocal cords are beginning to develop. By now they also have soft hair on their eyebrows and head."

  28. abwilliams profile image68
    abwilliamsposted 5 weeks ago

    So I will not hold my breath, waiting for you to come around.

  29. Readmikenow profile image95
    Readmikenowposted 4 weeks ago

    People need to watch this video and realize the only thing Ukraine needs to win this war is the proper equipment.  They are taking it to the russians even being out gunned and out manned.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUx-o2pWWts

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

      Those without an agenda know that to be true.

      1. Sharlee01 profile image89
        Sharlee01posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

        What do you mean by "those with an agenda"? What would that agenda be?

    2. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

      Speaker Johnson's beliefs and politics are reprehensible to me but I have to admire him on this one in getting aid to Ukraine.  Now, the Democrats need to step up hold their nose, defy precedence and help him save his job for doing the right thing.

      https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/17/politics … index.html

      1. Sharlee01 profile image89
        Sharlee01posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

        "Speaker Johnson's beliefs and politics are reprehensible to me but I have to admire him on this one in getting aid to Ukraine.  Now, the Democrats need to step up hold their nose, defy precedence, and help him save his job for doing the right thing." ECO

        This man's beliefs are "reprehensible, please give an example. I assume this to be your view, but you should at best give an example of why you feel his beliefs and politics are reprehensible. Do you think it fair to demean this man just because you can?

        1. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

          And how did I demean him - by saying I admired him? Did I stand up and wave my arms about mimicking a disabled reporter like Trump did?  Are you talking about that type of demean? I don't see where I did that, does anybody else?  You have an interesting definition of "demean".

          As to finding his "POLICIES" reprehensible - I don't have enough room to write them all.  But lets pick on his views on women's reproductive rights.

          It would be easy to see Johnson’s wildly regressive gender politics as a personal quirk – his beliefs that gay people are sinful and inferior; that women should not be able to live freely from men or use their bodies in ways that are counter to wishes of the men close to them; that marriage should act, for men, as an entitlement to absolute control, and for women, as a prison.

          https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr … %20as%20an

          1. Sharlee01 profile image89
            Sharlee01posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

            You certainly did demean Johnson. Are you aware of the definition of the word reprehensible?   "Speaker Johnson's beliefs and politics are reprehensible to me"  The context tells me YOU (note the words you use TO ME)  find the House Speaker's beliefs and politics reprehensible... 

            Reprehensible --  deserving censure or condemnation.

            The article you shared lacks proper sourcing to support the brief quotes attributed to Johnson. I don't engage in selective thinking, where I extract a couple of words and insert my own interpretation around them. This author failed to provide the full context of the quoted words, which is concerning. Such incomplete representations can mislead those who add their interpretations and spread misinformation, as you seem to have done. I'm disappointed that the article was poorly written and inadequately sourced. It becomes obvious to me you ascribe to selective thinking.

            1. My Esoteric profile image87
              My Esotericposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

              And almost all of this policies and beliefs deserve censure and condemnation.

              Me, selective thinking?  ROFL.

              Your denial of the messenger is SOP for conservatives who don't like what the message says.

              Also, I am guessing you didn't click on any of the sourcing in the article.

              Finally, are you denying Johnson said this reprehensible sermon that is summarized in the following line -

              "Johnson says that women’s freedom to leave marriages, along with their freedom to elect out of motherhood when they choose, is responsible for mass shootings"

              His Sermon:

              [i]“If you remember in the late ‘60s we invented things like no-fault divorce laws. We invented the sexual revolution. We invented radical feminism. We invented legalized abortion in 1973, where the state government sanctioned the killing of the unborn.” He continued on to state that these developments have led to a society where a “a young person go into their schoolhouse and open fire on their classmates…because we taught a whole generation, a couple of generations now, of Americans that there is no right and wrong.

              Because if you remember in the late 60s we invented things like no-fault divorce laws. We invented the sexual revolution. We invented radical feminism. We invented legalized abortion in 1973, where the state government sanctioned the killing of the unborn,” he said.

              All these things happened because as collectively as Americans, we began to get together in growing numbers and thumb our nose at the creator and say, ‘We don’t believe that anymore, we’re rejecting the founders natural law philosophy in favor of moral relativism, and we’re going down another path.’

              Now, what we tolerate in moderation our children excuse in excess. What happens when you fast forward another 30 or 40 years?” he asked. “We know that we’re living in a completely amoral society. And people say, ‘How can a young person go into their school house and open fire on their classmates?’ Because we taught a whole generation, a couple of generations now, of Americans that there is no right and wrong. That it’s about survival of the fittest and you evolved from the primordial slime, why is that life of any sacred value because there’s nobody sacred to whom it’s owed."

              You may not call that demented but I certainly do.

    3. Sharlee01 profile image89
      Sharlee01posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

      It's heartbreaking to witness the ongoing conflict in Ukraine, especially with the immense human toll it's exacting. I can't help but wonder about the long-term consequences of continued warfare, especially for a nation with such a large population. While supporting Ukraine with weapons may temporarily hold off further aggression, it's crucial to consider the toll this prolonged conflict will take on both the people and the nation as a whole.

      In the face of such devastation, I strongly believe that prioritizing negotiations is the most compassionate and constructive path forward. It's imperative that the voices and interests of the Ukrainian people are at the forefront of any diplomatic efforts. As a supporter of Ukraine, my hope is not just for an end to the violence, but for meaningful assistance in rebuilding and healing the nation. It's essential that any aid provided focuses on nurturing Ukraine's recovery, rather than perpetuating its suffering.

      ECO seems to believe some have an agenda, my agenda is for peace, an end to the war through negotiations, and help with rebuilding the Ukraine. It will be interesting to see if NATO steps up after damage has been done, and help rebuild the nation that has been so poorly used.

      1. Readmikenow profile image95
        Readmikenowposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

        Interesting fact is that NATO supports the Ukraine war as the russian military is slowly being decimated.  All of their front line, highly trained and motivated troops have been eliminated.  Over 14 russian generals have been killed.  russia has lost over 500,000 military people.  Over 1/3 of their entire fleet in the Black Sea has been either sunk or heavily damaged.  Interesting because Ukraine has no functional navy.  What has kept Ukraine in the fight is their mastery of drone technology.

        With a little more help, Ukraine could actually win this war.

        1. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

          As well as the highly motivated population to stay out the grips of the Russians, but I guess we can't predict they are highly motivated as some suggest here, because we can't read their minds and they haven't told us so in words and writings and videos.

        2. Sharlee01 profile image89
          Sharlee01posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

          Mike,   Initially, my preference leans towards resolving conflicts through peaceful negotiations, regardless of the circumstances of any war. However, my lack of access to on-the-ground updates about the situation in Ukraine leaves me uneasy. Your updates provide some relief, suggesting that the Ukrainian forces are holding their own. Yet, I can't shake off the concern rooted in the US historical patterns where involvement in wars ends abruptly when it becomes inconvenient. Since the outset, I've held onto hope for a compromise that would see Russia withdrawing its forces.

          My worry persists that this conflict might devastate Ukraine, causing immense loss of life. I stand firmly in support of the Ukrainian people, who have demonstrated remarkable resilience throughout this ordeal.

          1. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

            It is a shame Putin didn't "negotiate" with Ukraine when they took Crimea and the Donbas.

            It is a shame Putin didn't listen to you when he began an out out war on Ukraine WITHOUT provocation.  And now that he has, you seem to be asking Ukraine to give up so that they can negotiate.

          2. Readmikenow profile image95
            Readmikenowposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

            Ukraine is in a situation where they can't lose and they can't give up.

            I don't know if anyone realizes what the russians would do if they won this war.

            Like the old Ukrainian saying goes, "I'd rather die a free wolf than live as a russian pet."

            1. My Esoteric profile image87
              My Esotericposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

              I think the MTGs of America and her MAGA ilk don't so much "don't know", it is that they "don't care".  The only thing that seems to matter to them is short-range, selfish interests.

              The people who want Ukraine to give up an compromise have no concept of what your Ukrainian saying actually means.  If they did, they would be pushing harder for aid to Ukraine instead of fighting against it.

              That said, unless things go horribly wrong, the House will approve the aid on Saturday along with some, hopefully non-lethal, aid to Israel, and help for the Palestinians in Gaza.

            2. Sharlee01 profile image89
              Sharlee01posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

              Mike,   

              It's truly heart-wrenching to witness the challenges Ukraine is facing, and your sentiment captures the gravity of the situation perfectly. The fear of what could happen if the conflict escalates further is palpable. Negotiations indeed seem imperative, and the support from NATO and the US could play such a crucial role in advocating for peaceful resolutions. Upholding Ukraine's sovereignty and ensuring a path towards stability and freedom is paramount. Your reference to the Ukrainian "saying" underscores the deeply held convictions of its people, emphasizing the importance of preserving their independence and dignity. Let's continue to hope for a resolution that safeguards the well-being of all involved.

              I advocate for a resolution that respects Ukraine's sovereignty while also acknowledging the importance of compromise to achieve peace. In my view,  It's crucial to consider potential solutions that address the concerns of all parties involved, such as Ukraine remaining a sovereign nation and avoiding NATO membership, coupled with Russian withdrawal from Ukrainian territory. Would this not be a bargaining issue that could lead to peace?

              1. My Esoteric profile image87
                My Esotericposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

                "I advocate for a resolution that respects Ukraine's sovereignty while also acknowledging the importance of compromise to achieve peace. " - THANK YOU for finally stating that!!!!

                Now, let's get down to practical matters.  If the going in assumption is, as you stated, "recognizing Ukraine's sovereignty, do you think Putin will EVER agree to give up the Donbas and Crimea?

                Given that Putin promised not to invade Ukraine before, do you think it would be smart of Ukraine to bargain away the ONLY guarantee that Putin will never invade them again?

      2. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

        "it's crucial to consider the toll this prolonged conflict will take on both the people and the nation as a whole." - SO, WHAT is your alternative?

        1. Sharlee01 profile image89
          Sharlee01posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

          Why aren't you getting it? I've been consistently laying out my alternative perspective throughout this conversation. Please take the time to thoroughly read my comments instead of just picking out fragments. I'm losing patience with this discussion. Do you require any specific accommodations for comprehending and contextualizing what's being discussed?

          1. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

            Why aren't YOU getting it?? You say Ukraine must negotiate and give up their land (that is the only outcome with Putin you know) and their freedom.  If they aren't going to do that, then I ask again - what is your alternative to defending themselves?

  30. Kathleen Cochran profile image75
    Kathleen Cochranposted 4 weeks ago

    HOOAH!

    1. Readmikenow profile image95
      Readmikenowposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

      Oh, my, yes, you know the Army.  Brings back memories.

      Thanks!

  31. My Esoteric profile image87
    My Esotericposted 4 weeks ago

    Well, Israel took the next step toward all out war in the Middle East with their tit-for-tat-for-tit retaliation inside Iran.  I wonder if Iran will pull out its nukes next.

    https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-new … index.html

  32. abwilliams profile image68
    abwilliamsposted 4 weeks ago

    There's tit-for-tat and then there's survival mode. If that difference isn't understood by now, it never will be!

  33. IslandBites profile image88
    IslandBitesposted 4 weeks ago

    Democrats help advance Ukraine, Israel aid in rare rules move

    The House Rules Committee late Thursday night advanced a package of foreign aid bills — but only with help from Democrats who, in a rare move, supported the procedural vote amid opposition from a trio of hard-line Republicans.

    The panel voted 9-3 to adopt the rule, which governs debate for the legislation, with Reps. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.), Chip Roy (R-Texas) and Ralph Norman (R-S.C.) opposing the effort.

    The successful vote allows the full House to vote on the rule and open debate on three foreign aid bills — sending assistance to Israel, Ukraine and allies in the Indo-Pacific — plus a fourth that includes other national security priorities, such as a TikTok ban.

    Rule votes — in committee and on the floor — are typically mundane, party-line occurrences, with the members from the majority party backing the rule and lawmakers in the minority party voting against it. But with conservatives voting against the rule out of opposition to Ukraine aid and the exclusion of border security measures, Democrats crossed the aisle to back the procedural vote.

    The legislation includes $26.38 billion for Israel, $60.84 billion for Ukraine and $8.12 billion for allies in the Indo-Pacific.

  34. Kathleen Cochran profile image75
    Kathleen Cochranposted 4 weeks ago

    When is the last time someone shared an article from Al Jazeera?

    https://aje.io/5rzic5

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

      Pretty sure I have sometime in 2024.

    2. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

      I liked this quote

      "He (Gen Hodges) told Al Jazeera in an interview on the sidelines of the recent Delphi Economic Conference in Greece that a paralyzed US Congress, over-cautious White House administration and fearful allies in Europe constitute a Russian marketing success."

      It is clear Putin has managed to get about a dozen Representatives and 2 or 3 Senators on his side.  Trump, of course, has always been their as Putin's Puppet.

  35. IslandBites profile image88
    IslandBitesposted 4 weeks ago

    Israeli strikes on southern Gaza city of Rafah kill 18, mostly children, as U.S. advances aid package

    Israel has carried out near-daily air raids on Rafah, where more than half of Gaza’s population of 2.3 million has sought refuge from fighting elsewhere.

    The first strike killed a man, his wife and their 3-year-old child, according to the nearby Kuwaiti Hospital, which received the bodies. The woman was pregnant, and the doctors managed to save the baby, the hospital said.

    The second strike killed 13 children and two women, all from the same family, according to hospital records. An airstrike in Rafah the night before killed nine people, including six children.

    Disgusting and heartbreaking.

  36. abwilliams profile image68
    abwilliamsposted 4 weeks ago

    The Palestinians/Hamas should leave Israel be and this wouldn't  be happening!!! I don't recall such outrage or "disgust" right around  Oct. 7.
    War is ugly, war is hell!!!
    Left alone, Israel leaves alone!
    Left alone, to live their lives in PEACE... everyone sleeps soundly at night!

    I would hope and pray that whomever the U.S. President is, if and when this type of attack happens to us again, he/she, has the fortitude...and the full SUPPORT of the American people, to see it through until every last enemy, every last terrorist, every last monster is wiped from the earth!! Sadly, innocent people will die in the process, because monsters hide behind them.

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

      And Netanyahu and his right-wing cohorts should let the Palestinians be and 1) stop stealing their land, 2) give back what he has stolen, and accept and implement a two-state solution.  THAT would win back the international support he has thrown away with his terrorist tactics and end the support for Hamas.

      1. Sharlee01 profile image89
        Sharlee01posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

        I believe it's important to consider the historical context when discussing Israel's acquisition of land. Israel has a record of defensive actions rather than instigating conflicts. When faced with aggression, they defend themselves, sometimes with great force, particularly in response to acts of genocide. However, your perspective, which seems to discredit Israel's defensive actions and align with a more liberal stance, is concerning to many Americans. Our current president's perceived lack of strength in standing against genocide, particularly the genocide against Jewish people, is deeply troubling to many Americans.  Your attitude, as expressed, has genuinely offended me, due to my belief that Genocide should never be excused for any reason.

        1. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

          When it comes to the Palestinians, the right-wing Israeli gov'ts have a long history of aggression.

          Finding the murder of innocent children offended you?  Interesting.

      2. abwilliams profile image68
        abwilliamsposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

        Israel hasn't stolen anything. Re-writing history is no justification for Israel-hate. Those wishing death to Israel... and America , don't want "solutions", they want us gone, extinguished, dead.

    2. Sharlee01 profile image89
      Sharlee01posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

      I totally agree. It's frustrating to see many Americans seemingly indifferent to the urgent need to confront terrorists responsible for true genocide. The events of October 7th starkly remind us of the brutality inflicted by terrorists on innocent men, women, and children in a sovereign nation. This is an undeniable reality. It's time to acknowledge that Israel is engaged in a war just as Ukraine is, yet there's a stark absence of protests against the loss of Ukrainian lives. Why the double standard? War inevitably brings casualties, but what distinguishes it from genocide is the deliberate targeting of a specific group for extermination. That's a line that must never be crossed.

      Let's hope Israel demonstrates the strength to unequivocally show the world that genocide will not be tolerated. Those who align themselves with terrorists must understand the repercussions of their support. Terrorists exploit them as shields, seize their resources, and allow their cities to be devastated in pursuit of their agenda to harm Jewish people.

      It's worth noting that those who chant "death to America" in our streets ought to face charges of treason and imprisonment. In places like Michigan where I live,  huge crowds in Dearborn,  chants of "death to Jews, death to Americans" are heard, this goes beyond free speech; it's treasonous behavior, perpetrated by individuals akin to terrorists.

      In my view, it's just a matter of time until we see these violent people become violent. I think some have forgotten that this is America, and Americans don't abide by killing anyone due to their religion.

      1. Willowarbor profile image61
        Willowarborposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

        Over 30,000 Palestinians dead at this point and many more to come now that Israel has gone into Rafah. How high do these numbers need to go?. This isn't a war. Hamas has no military, it  is loosely organized, is barely trained and have the most basic of weapons compared to the IDF.  Hamas is more of an ideology and with every Palestinian killed, Israel is strengthening that ideology. 
        In a war, there are casualties on each side but at this point the majority of the Israeli military casualties are coming from friendly fire... Which is not surprising because they have shown over and over that they shoot first and ask questions later.  This "war" is doing nothing to secure the future of Israel.  The IDF at this point is doing nothing more than shooting fish in a barrel. There has been little to
        no actual resistance.

        Yes October 7th was horrendous and I think the world is still waiting for the investigation into Israel's failures in their immediate response. Netanyahu is refusing to investigate. But the scale of response is absolutely disproportionate.  Killing and starving to death Gazan children is just as bad as the acts perpetrated on October 7th.  They are both wrong and they are both atrocities.

        I don't understand the analogy with Ukraine?   It is a tragedy that its citizens are dying because Putin believes he has the right to take their entire country.  They have made the decision to fight for their democracy, why should I protest that?  I'm more inclined to protest Putin's aggression.  I'm of the mindset that the man needs to be slapped back into place by any means necessary.  This war, as all wars, will end at the negotiation table. The world's despots will be eagerly looking on to see just how much and if Putin's aggression will be rewarded. The resolution will guide their actions.   
        I was very glad to see speaker Johnson's action on Ukraine aid and his very Reganesque guiding principles.

        1. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

          Let me put a finer point on your statement "This "war" is doing nothing to secure the future of Israel." - The way that the right-wing extremists in Israel (meaning of course, Netanyahu) is executing the war is doing nothing to secure the future of Israel.  In fact, it is making it less secure by irredeemably radicalizing all of Palestine and turning the world against what SHOULD be a just cause.

          It is sad and unfair that that some people can't separate in their minds the normal Palestinians from the terrorist Hamas.  We are now seeing the same thing regarding Israel.  The world is having a very hard time drawing a distinction between the terrorist Netanyahu and his right-wing brothers and normal Israeli's who no longer support the way he is trying to beat Hamas.

      2. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

        "It's worth noting that those who chant "death to America" in our streets ought to face charges of treason and imprisonment. " - IN OTHER words, toss out our constitutional right to free speech - another former Republican go to that went out the window with MAGA.

        Yet nothing is said of the violent MAGA who are already have become violent.  Why don't I see any criticism from the Right about that?  Is it double standards?

  37. IslandBites profile image88
    IslandBitesposted 4 weeks ago

    The disdain for so many dead children. Utterly DISGUSTING.

    1. Sharlee01 profile image89
      Sharlee01posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

      So, are we talking about the children who tragically lost their lives simply for being Jewish?   Or perhaps those in Ukraine caught in the crossfire of a conflict supported by NATO? And let's not forget the Palestinian children caught up in a war zone. It seems some people classify these tragedies differently. I feel every care should be taken to prevent civilian casualties. However, terrorists don't abide by that concept.

      I can't say I find any pleasure in witnessing the loss of innocent lives, especially children, in a war fueled by the taxes I pay. The narrative of halting Russia's advance into the EU to justify this conflict seems absurd to me. My common sense tells me otherwise.

      Regarding the war in Ukraine, I believe your statement encapsulates the fundamental truth that no child should suffer the consequences of war. Ultimately, I share that sentiment, and I'm not in favor of supporting any conflict, including the one in Ukraine.

      Where do you stand on the conflict in Ukraine? In the event of your own country being targeted and genocide committed, what actions do you believe are necessary?

      Your comment lacks clarity and depth regarding the reasons behind children perishing. In my view, It's concerning that our tax dollars are funding a war where children are suffering the consequences.  Where are the protests?

  38. abwilliams profile image68
    abwilliamsposted 4 weeks ago

    Same. Holy Bible.

    Also, a link, if I must:

    https://youtu.be/btVFgqkgkzw

  39. Readmikenow profile image95
    Readmikenowposted 4 weeks ago

    Here is why the figures presented to the world by hamas don't look right to academic.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFJxXuDoe28

  40. IslandBites profile image88
    IslandBitesposted 4 weeks ago

    United Nations leaders demanded a “clear, transparent and credible” investigation Tuesday after mass graves containing the bodies of hundreds of men and women were discovered on the grounds of two major hospitals in Gaza that were previously under assault by the Israeli military.

    The mass graves contained some people stripped naked with their hands tied, raising concerns over potential war crimes, the U.N. said, describing the bodies as “buried deep in the ground and covered with waste.

    Mass grave sites were discovered at the Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City and Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis, containing 283 bodies at the Nasser site alone. The Khan Younis burial site was constructed because Palestinian civilians could not perform burials due to ongoing military attacks by Israeli forces, Palestinian Civil Defense said.

    “Hospitals are entitled to very special protection under international humanitarian law,” U.N. human rights chief Volker Türk said Tuesday. “And the intentional killing of civilians, detainees and others who are ‘hors de combat’ (incapable of engaging in combat) is a war crime.”

    1. Readmikenow profile image95
      Readmikenowposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

      Gee, just on mass grave site?  People stripped naked with their hands tied behind their backs.?  Sounds so familiar.

      I hope the UN does more here than they've done in Ukraine.

      There have been many such mass graves in Ukraine discovered when russia retreated from various towns and villages.  I don't think the world realizes the horrors experienced by the Ukrainian people.

      Is the UN going to hold Vladimir Putin responsible and charge him with war crimes?

      Hasn't happened yet.

      The UN in many ways is a worthless and corrupt organization.

      1. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

        What more can they do in Ukraine besides invade Russia (which, if he had zero nukes, I could go for)?  Doesn't the ICC (who tries cases for the UN) have warrants out for Putin and others involved in the war crimes if they ever leave Russia.

        Should the UN hold Netanyahu responsible for the same thing?  I am beginning to think so.

  41. Sharlee01 profile image89
    Sharlee01posted 3 weeks ago

    Anyone ---    What are your thoughts on the 1000 Isreal citizens that Hamas came into their homes and raped women in front of their children, kill babies in from of their parents, and murdered at random in horrific manners on Oct 7th, 2023?  By definition this was genocide. Those killed in war are considered casualties of war, such as the citizens of Ukraine.

    In my view, the Palestinians lived side by side with Hamas and voted for them to represent GAZA. Their government waged war on Israel on Oct 7th . Israel has every right to defend their nation. It would appear the Palestinians will need to accept what war has brought to them, due to making a terrorist group their government.

    Not sure how some can separate Ukraine from Israel wars. Both are defending their nation. Both are truely causing casualties of war.  Both have refugees. The Ukraine has a population of 38 million people in 2022.

    "How many refugees are there from the Ukraine war?
    Emergencies. There are nearly 3.7 million internally displaced people in Ukraine (as of February 2024). Nearly 6.5 million refugees from Ukraine have been recorded globally (as of February 2024)."
    https://www.unrefugees.org/emergencies/ … 20million,(as%20of%20February%202024).&text=Nearly%206.5%20million%20refugees%20from,(as%20of%20February%202024).

    "KYIV, 24 February 2024 – Two years since the escalation of the war in Ukraine, more than 10,500 civilians have been killed, including 587 children, and nearly 20,000 injured [1], as constant bombardments, mines, and drone attacks have left a generation traumatised, displaced and fearful for their lives, said 51 members of ...Feb 24, 2024"
    https://www.savethechildren.net/news/uk … mbers%20of

    Questions -   How does one separate the two wars?

    Both have every right to defend their Nations and their people. Both were invaded by those who hoped to do them harm.

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

      It would make my life much simpler if I could take such a simplistic, black and white view like that. But, I can't.  I must look beneath the surface to understand each factor and faction that plays upon the situation and come to some sort of conclusion about each.

      I can't be the person who will let someone shoot me, like some here are advocating, if I don't vote for them. I will vote for them just like the Palestinians who hate Hamas did.  They are more practical than the Pollyanna view some here take.

      Because of how Netanyahu has chosen to prosecute a just war, he has lowered himself to the same level as Hamas.  The Israeli people who oppose Netanyahu are as much a victim of his policies as the Palestinians are victims of both Netanyahu and Hamas' policies.

      It is sad to realize that both Hamas and Netanyahu have the same practical goal - the elimination of the Palestinian people.

      1. Sharlee01 profile image89
        Sharlee01posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

        "It would make my life much simpler if I could take such a simplistic, black and white view like that. But, I can't.  I must look beneath the surface to understand each factor and faction that plays upon the situation and come to some sort of conclusion about each."

        This chat delves into the parallels between two ongoing conflicts. Both nations are fighting to safeguard their sovereignty, having been unexpectedly invaded. Tragically, civilian and military lives have been lost, and countless citizens are now displaced. The ideologies driving their adversaries share common themes: Russia asserts ownership over Ukraine, while Hamas denies Israel's right to exist, echoing sentiments held by Palestinians for decades. These historical complexities shape the dynamics of both conflicts, presenting a challenging topic for discussion in this format.

        Addressing the Palestinian situation would require extensive examination, tracing back through decades of history. However, I see parallels between the plight of the Palestinian and Ukrainian peoples. Both find themselves embroiled in conflict, yet lack the agency to make their voices heard amidst the turmoil of war.

        1. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

          How do the Ukrainian people lack the "agency"?  It seems to me they have, through their president, managed to get the free world on their side  The Ukrainians have managed to acquire an air defense that, while not perfect, has limited the potential destruction to a great degree.  Also, the Ukrainian people don't have people within their midst willing to sacrifice them to save themselves.

          One similarity is Netanyahu has managed to make the Israeli people as much a pariah as Putin has the Russian people.

          1. Sharlee01 profile image89
            Sharlee01posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

            Wouldn't you want your voice to matter if a president opted for war? And if you did speak up, wouldn't it be understandable to reassess your stance if, after three years, you witnessed your country devastated and innocent lives lost? Isn't it only human to reevaluate in such circumstances?

            As for the assertion that Ukrainians lack individuals willing to sacrifice for their own survival, I respectfully disagree. Recall the reports when the war first erupted—they highlighted the determination of the Ukrainian people to defend their homeland, with many bravely joining the fight to protect their towns. I believe many still might still feel that way.

            1. My Esoteric profile image87
              My Esotericposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

              Who made the "assertion" you reference?  It certainly wasn't me.

              Let me ask. Suppose Russia was invading America and we were putting up a stiff fight.  Nevertheless, the Russian's were inflicting terrible damage and destruction on America. Are you suggesting you would reevaluate whether America should keep on fighting the Russians and instead give up and let the Russians become your master??

              I know I certainly wouldn't, I would be redoubling my resistance.

  42. My Esoteric profile image87
    My Esotericposted 3 weeks ago

    Hamas willing to DISARM if two-state solution implemented.  WOW!!

    That, if true, is quite a concession.  One Netanyahu is sure to blow up.

    https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/25/middleea … index.html

    1. Readmikenow profile image95
      Readmikenowposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

      From your article.

      "Some Hamas officials are signaling that the militant group could give up armed struggle against Israel if the Palestinians get an independent state in territories captured by Israel in the 1967 war."

      "Signaling" "Could"

      Means nothing.

      Gaza was an independent state.  No Jews have been permitted to be there since 2005.  They turned it into a terrorist state.

      The bigger question is what can hamas offer to guarantee the safety of Israeli citizen.  That is what's important.

      Hamas started this and is losing in a big way.  They are not is a position to negotiate anything. I believe the elimination of hamas should continue and have gaza under Israeli military control until Israel can guarantee its citizens safety. 

      That is the only way to peace in the area.

      1. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

        Why didn't you say that it was Israel that wouldn't permit Israeli's from living in Gaza instead of implying that it was the Palestinians who forced them out?

        In September 1993, leaders of Israel and the PLO signed the Oslo Accords calling for Palestinian administration of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank town of Jericho, which was implemented in May 1994.
        Israeli forces withdrew from Gaza, leaving a new Palestinian National Authority (PNA) to administer and police the city.

        In 2005, Israel implemented its unilateral disengagement plan under which it unilaterally withdrew Israeli armed forces and settlements from the Gaza Strip. Israel then began a blockade of the Gaza strip.

        Sounds like the Israeli's were the aggressors to. This was done by Sharon, who held the same no Palestinian State view that Netanyahu does. He was responsible for beginning the construction of the Israeli West Bank barrier in 2002–03. He was also going to unilaterally withdraw Israeli's from the West Bank as well.  Netanyahu reversed that idea and started his campaign to confiscate Palestinian land.

        1. Readmikenow profile image95
          Readmikenowposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

          "withdrew Israeli armed forces and settlements from the Gaza Strip. Israel then began a blockade of the Gaza strip."

          Completely false.

          Israel withdrew all Jewish settlements in the Gaza strip.  People who had lived in the area for centuries.  NO Jews have been able to even visit the Gaza strip since 2005.

          There is NO blockade of the Gaza Strip.  Before October 7th, thousands of Palestinians would go into Israel daily for work, shopping.  They even used the Israeli airports to travel places. 

          There is also a gateway from the Gaza Strip with Egypt.

          There is no such thing as palestinian land.  There has never been a nation state known a palestine.  Not ever in the history of the world.

          The ending of the conflict will require hamas to surrender and guarantee of safety for the people of Israel.  It's all very simple.

          1. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

            Completely true.

            Whose fault is it that no Jews have been allowed ...?  It appears to be the Right-wing leadership of Israel who made those rules.

            With your reference to ancient history, are you suggesting that Americans turn back the land here to the Native Americans?  Or Ukraine back to whoever possessed the land before there was a Ukraine?

            1. Readmikenow profile image95
              Readmikenowposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

              "Whose fault is it that no Jews have been allowed"

              Israel left the Gaza Strip in a effort to obtain peace with the palestinians. That was the reason.  It didn't seem to work with them.

              As far as my reference to ancient history, there has been an Israel Nation/State since the bronze age.  There has never been a palestinian nation state.  So, how can they claim any land is theirs?

              1. Credence2 profile image78
                Credence2posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

                Bronze Age? How much land and territory has changed hands since the Bronze Age? Why not give the indigenous people here in America their land back? Is that really the foundation of your argument as to why Israel should have and take everything?

                1. Readmikenow profile image95
                  Readmikenowposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

                  "why Israel should have and take everything?"

                  You need to study up on this topic a bit more.

                  There has never been a palestinian land.  Only land called palestine, started by the Romans.  There has never been a nation/state known as palestine.  So, your argument concerning Native Americans, really doesn't apply.

                  1. Credence2 profile image78
                    Credence2posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

                    Do I? In what way?

              2. My Esoteric profile image87
                My Esotericposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

                Given the politics of Sharon, I have a hard time believing that was the case.

                The only apparent difference between Sharon and Netanyahu is Sharon wanted to build a wall between the Palestinians and the Jews while Netanyahu simply wants to take all of the Palestinian lands.

                As to ancient history, who occupied modern day Israel in say 2000 BCE?

                1. Readmikenow profile image95
                  Readmikenowposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Again, there never has been palestinian land.

                  1. My Esoteric profile image87
                    My Esotericposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

                    The history books disagree with you as I pointed out. 

                    In 1917, the Balfour Declaration expressed support for establishing an a "National Home" for the Jewish people in the Palestinian territory that the UK still oversaw.  In 1947, the UN passed resolution 181 which split Palestine into two independent states, one for the Jews and the other for the Palestinians. 

                    In 1947 - 1948, the Jews "declared" their half to be the State of Israel. Likewise, in 1988, the Palestine National Council "declared" the other half to be an independent Palestinian state.

                    So, both Israel and Palestine came into existence through "declarations" by their respective people.

                    BTW, prior to 1800 BCE there was no "Israeli" land either.  Why, because the Jewish religion didn't exist.

            2. Sharlee01 profile image89
              Sharlee01posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

              "Whose fault is it that no Jews have been allowed ...?  It appears to be the Right-wing leadership of Israel who made those rules."

              Source, please.


              However, it's important to acknowledge how Israel's treatment of the people of Gaza contrasts with this fact. Israel permitted citizens from Gaza to work within its borders, demonstrating a level of generosity. So one might argue that the right-wing leadership erred by extending such generosity to allow Gazan citizens to enter their nation and earn a livelihood.

              "When did Israel, the U.S. and other agencies start providing products and services to Gaza?
              Despite the Hamas terror group’s dedication to Israel’s destruction, Palestinian civilians in Gaza have received help from Israel and its allies since Hamas took over the coastal territory in 2007.

              Over those years, Israel has facilitated tons of products for daily life, from school supplies and toys to electronic devices and pharmaceuticals for Gazans through its Kerem Shalom Crossing and worked with several international groups to transfer food and other means of support into the territory to about 63% of people in Gaza."
              https://www.ajc.org/news/what-you-need- … in%202007.

              "Can Gaza residents work in Israel?
              Gazans in the West Bank told CNN last month that getting a work permit for Israel allowed them to become vital breadwinners. Many are the only members of their families to have a job and the salaries they earn in Israel are multiple times higher than anything they'd be able to get in Gaza"
              https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/03/middleea … index.html

  43. My Esoteric profile image87
    My Esotericposted 3 weeks ago

    A wave of mostly peaceful protests has spread across American campuses this last week.  Most are remaining peaceful and doing it for a legal reason.  But some have now turned violent, which is illegal and for illegal reasons.  Like with the Summer protests, often these gatherings are infected by outside people intent on doing harm and causing riots.

    Austin says most of the those arrested at their campus were outside agitators, I suspect the same is true where ever violence flairs up. Those people and any others such as those who broke into the building at Columbia should not be dealt with by a slap on the wrist, but by many months in jail. 

    It is working with the Trump insurrectionists, it is hard to put together a protest for Trump nowadays.  It might work with them.

    https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/ … 3949161257

    For example: "NYPD Deputy Commissioner of Operations Kaz Daughtry suggested on Fox 5 New York on Tuesday that an outside entity was funding campus protests because of the similarities in tents used at student encampments, saying “there are professional agitators in there that are just looking for something to be agitated about.”

    https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/27/us/campu … index.html

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

      It is not just UT Austin where outside agitators are the problem, it is at Columbia as well.  It seems most of those arrested are not students but criminals bent on destruction, just like those few that rioted during the Summer protests.

      There were several Right-Wing rioters caught during the Summer, I wonder how many will be found causing trouble here? I wonder that because the extremists on the Right are in bed with the extremists on Left when it comes to Jews.

      1. Readmikenow profile image95
        Readmikenowposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

        "several Right-Wing rioters caught during the Summer"

        Got any proof?

        1. IslandBites profile image88
          IslandBitesposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

          Man who helped ignite George Floyd riots identified as white supremacist: Police

          A masked, umbrella-wielding man accused of helping incite riots and looting in the aftermath of George Floyd's police-involved death has been identified as a member of a white supremacist group that aimed to stir racial tensions amid largely peaceful Black Lives Matter protests, according to police.

          The 32-year-old, dubbed "Umbrella Man," was captured in a viral video back in May wearing a black hooded outfit and a black gas mask as he smashed store windows with a sledgehammer and encouraged people to steal, according to a search warrant affidavit filed in court this week.

          His actions quickly led to the first of several arson fires that police say transformed peaceful protests into local danger zones, the affidavit said. He's also accused of spray painting the words "free s--- for everyone zone" on the doors of an AutoZone before he allegedly smashed in the windows. The store was broken into and set on fire shortly after, the affidavit said.

          ---

          Three of the men arrested are far-right extremists, members of the “Boogaloo” movement plotting to overthrow the government and had been stockpiling military-grade weapons and hunting around for the right public event to unleash violence for weeks before Floyd’s death, according to court documents.

          After aborting a mission related to reopening businesses in Nevada as the coronavirus pandemic raged, they settled on a Floyd-related protest led by Black Lives Matter. Angry it had not turned violent, they brought carloads of explosives, military-grade weapons, to a meet-up about 2 miles (3.2 kilometers) from the protest site and pumped gasoline into tanks. FBI agents arrested them before they could act, according to a criminal complaint.

          1. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

            And they weren't just an isolated incident, either.  You had evil doers everywhere.  Some were with the protesters, many were outside agitators, some were right-wing extremists, and some were police who couldn't control themselves and started beating up peaceful protestors.

        2. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

          Yep, just read the newspapers or refer back to the posts where I provided the proof.

          1. Readmikenow profile image95
            Readmikenowposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

            Nah, it's not there, you're making this up.

            1. My Esoteric profile image87
              My Esotericposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

              I wasn't and neither was Island Bites.  Therefore, doesn't that mean you are living in a state of denial about that?

              1. Readmikenow profile image95
                Readmikenowposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

                No, I'm looking for you to provide your proof.

                1. My Esoteric profile image87
                  My Esotericposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Man who helped ignite George Floyd riots identified as white supremacist: Police

                  A masked, umbrella-wielding man accused of helping incite riots and looting in the aftermath of George Floyd's police-involved death has been identified as a member of a white supremacist group that aimed to stir racial tensions amid largely peaceful Black Lives Matter protests, according to police.

                  The 32-year-old, dubbed "Umbrella Man," was captured in a viral video back in May wearing a black hooded outfit and a black gas mask as he smashed store windows with a sledgehammer and encouraged people to steal, according to a search warrant affidavit filed in court this week.

                  His actions quickly led to the first of several arson fires that police say transformed peaceful protests into local danger zones, the affidavit said. He's also accused of spray painting the words "free s--- for everyone zone" on the doors of an AutoZone before he allegedly smashed in the windows. The store was broken into and set on fire shortly after, the affidavit said.

                  ---

                  Three of the men arrested are far-right extremists, members of the “Boogaloo” movement plotting to overthrow the government and had been stockpiling military-grade weapons and hunting around for the right public event to unleash violence for weeks before Floyd’s death, according to court documents.

                  After aborting a mission related to reopening businesses in Nevada as the coronavirus pandemic raged, they settled on a Floyd-related protest led by Black Lives Matter. Angry it had not turned violent, they brought carloads of explosives, military-grade weapons, to a meet-up about 2 miles (3.2 kilometers) from the protest site and pumped gasoline into tanks. FBI agents arrested them before they could act, according to a criminal complaint.

                  1. abwilliams profile image68
                    abwilliamsposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

                    "White supremacists", aka, the KKK, is straight up Democratic Party.

                  2. Sharlee01 profile image89
                    Sharlee01posted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

                    Do any of these men have names? I did some looking around, and this Umbrella man has never been arrested, nor has anyone placed a name to this guy or has any proof of if he is affiliated with any groups.

                    July 29, 2020,  https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-helped-ig … d=72051536

                    JUNE 2, 2021  https://minnesotareformer.com/2021/06/0 … rella-man/

                    It would appear no one has Identified this man's name or who he may have been affiliated with, if any group.
                    FBI Seeks Public’s Help in Identifying 'Umbrella Man'
                    Oct 2022   - https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-of … brella-man

                    I suggest you listen to this news report... There is no evidence that the Umbrella Man is a white supremacist. And he has never been apprehended.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmJgcR8INfM

    2. IslandBites profile image88
      IslandBitesposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

      How Counterprotesters at U.C.L.A. Provoked Violence, Unchecked for Hours

      A New York Times examination of more than 100 videos from clashes at the University of California, Los Angeles, found that violence ebbed and flowed for nearly five hours, mostly with little or no police intervention. The violence had been instigated by dozens of people who are seen in videos counterprotesting the encampment.

      The videos showed counterprotesters attacking students in the pro-Palestinian encampment for several hours, including beating them with sticks, using chemical sprays and launching fireworks as weapons. As of Friday, no arrests had been made in connection with the attack.

      https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 … lence.html

      The New York Times used videos filmed by journalists, witnesses and protesters to analyze hours of clashes.

  44. Kathleen Cochran profile image75
    Kathleen Cochranposted 2 weeks ago

    I'd like to see the sources for that statement as well.

  45. Kathleen Cochran profile image75
    Kathleen Cochranposted 2 weeks ago

    One big Israel where Palestinians have the same rights is Israelis? Sounds like a great solution. Then you don't have to worry about a group like Hamas hijacking the Palestinian government. Many Palestinians already work in Israel because there are no jobs anywhere else.

    But, there are too many Arab powers that will never let that happen. They like things the way they are so they can blame Israel for the problems.

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

      In addition, right-wing, conservative Israelis would shoot (probably literally) down as well,

    2. Readmikenow profile image95
      Readmikenowposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

      "One big Israel where Palestinians have the same rights is Israelis? Sounds like a great solution."

      I don't think you realize the situation.  The Gaza strip was, at one time, under Israeli control.  They got it from the 1967 war.  In 2005, as part of the peace accords, Israel gave in to the demands of the palestinians and left the Gaza Strip.  There has not been any jews permitted to cross into the Gaza strip since 2005.  Every Jewish settlement was removed.  Some people had lived there for generations.  Israel did all of this in the name of peace.

      palestinians don't want peace.  You should read their charter for forming their government.  Their goal is to eliminate Israel from existence.  They are the ones who voted in the hamas government.

      It won't happen because the palestinian people won't let it happen.

      In Israel there are many Muslims who do have Israeli citizenship.  They serve in the IDF, have voting rights as all the same rights as Jewish citizens.

  46. abwilliams profile image68
    abwilliamsposted 2 weeks ago

    My brother just sent me this:

    https://www.facebook.com/share/v/n4X6hs … tid=oFDknk

    TRUTH!!!

  47. Readmikenow profile image95
    Readmikenowposted 2 weeks ago

    "A wave of mostly peaceful protests"

    Mostly peaceful protests makes about as much sense as being a little bit pregnant.

    1. Sharlee01 profile image89
      Sharlee01posted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

      Mike, I agree with your sentiment... If I recall many said the same regarding the "Summer Of Love" Protests. The protests caused double-digit death, and multiple millions of dollars in damage, as well as many citizens losing their businesses due to the protest.

      I feel compelled to share my perspective on the current wave of protests erupting on college campuses across America. It baffles me why some individuals find it acceptable to support such protests, especially considering their tendency to escalate into violence and target Jewish students, with chants even turning against America itself. The slogans like "Death to America" and "Intifada, River To Sea" evoke fear in many of us. It's perplexing and concerning that certain segments, in my view, often associated with liberal ideologies, fail to recognize the hypocrisy and peril in supporting such demonstrations. Hopefully, better times are coming.

      1. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

        Yes, why some people would support Hamas is baffling.  As is why some people would support another terrorist, Netanyahu.  But I am equally baffled why someone would want a convicted sexual predatory, fraudster, and defamer to Make America Gross Again?

        1. Sharlee01 profile image89
          Sharlee01posted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

          "Yes, why some people would support Hamas is baffling.  As is why some people would support another terrorist, Netanyahu.  But I am equally baffled why someone would want a convicted sexual predatory, fraudster, and defamer to Make America Gross Again?" ECO

          Netanyahu being labeled as a terrorist is a perspective you may hold, but it's crucial to acknowledge differing viewpoints. Many argue he's engaging in warfare under challenging circumstances, particularly when Hamas employs civilians as shields.  As for Trump, I have been vocal about supporting his vision to Make America Great Again, expressing satisfaction with his previous tenure and hoping for his return to the White House. Trump 2024

  48. My Esoteric profile image87
    My Esotericposted 2 weeks ago

    Don't you feel sorry for people who can only see in black and white?  Color adds so much understanding of what is really going on in any given situation.  Seeing only in black and white is like running a marathon in the mountains with a bag over your head, sooner rather than later you are bound to run off a cliff.

    1. abwilliams profile image68
      abwilliamsposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

      I feel sorry for those who refuse to remove their blinders to see what their Democratic  Party has become. It is either that or they see it clearly, just choose to live in denial.

      1. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

        If I am not mistaken, I think that is called Projection.

        PROJECTION - Projection is a form of defense in which unwanted feelings are displaced onto another person, where they then appear as a threat from the external world. A common form of projection occurs when an individual, threatened by his own angry feelings, accuses another of harbouring hostile thoughts.

      2. Sharlee01 profile image89
        Sharlee01posted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

        From my perspective, their interpretations seem heavily influenced by partisan agendas, shaped by falsehoods and contradictory narratives that obscure the true state of affairs in our nation. So yes, blinders, inhibit seeing things with clarity.

  49. Kathleen Cochran profile image75
    Kathleen Cochranposted 2 weeks ago

    Fellow Hubbers: If we are going to chose a president by number of sexual assault accusations, let's look at the tally - so far.

    Biden: 7
    Trump 25

  50. My Esoteric profile image87
    My Esotericposted 2 weeks ago

    Netanyahu has taken the next step away from democracy and a giant step toward an Iranian-Hamas-Putin style authoritarian dictatorship by shutting down the free press in Israel. 

    This is also a good roadmap for Trump to follow in 2024 should America be stupid enough to elect him again.

    https://apnews.com/article/israel-aljaz … e60d1de5e4

    1. Readmikenow profile image95
      Readmikenowposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

      As someone involved with the Ukraine conflict, I can tell you,  the Ukrainian government did the same thing.  They closed down entire russian language TV stations and radio stations.  The ones promoting russian propaganda and misinformation about the war were eliminated.

      1. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

        Except, the best I can tell, Al Jazeera isn't anything like the state-run propaganda machine that Ukraine shut down.  They are a well respected, independent news outlet. (It does get some funding from Qatar, the country in the middle of helping to broker a truce and I think one of the signers to the Abraham Accords)

        https://adfontesmedia.com/al-jazeera-bi … f%20Qatar.

    2. Readmikenow profile image95
      Readmikenowposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

      "This is also a good roadmap for Trump to follow in 2024 should America be stupid enough to elect him again."

      This makes no sense.  IF President Donald Trump wanted to do such a thing, he would have done it during his first term.  It didn't happen.

      1. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

        He began the first steps with all out attacks on main stream media and threatening to do so.

        Even recently he is doing so: "Trump blasted for threats against Comcast, NBC"

        https://thehill.com/homenews/4222082-tr … mcast-nbc/

        1. Readmikenow profile image95
          Readmikenowposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

          “They are almost all dishonest and corrupt, but Comcast, with its one-side and vicious coverage by NBC NEWS, and in particular MSNBC, often and correctly referred to as MSDNC (Democrat National Committee!), should be investigated for its ‘Country Threatening Treason,” Trump wrote on his Truth Social website."

          He voiced an opinion and nothing more.

          1. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

            He made a direct threat to attack the free press in America using the powers of the Presidency should we be unfortunate enough to see him in the White House again.  He is no better than Putin.

          2. Sharlee01 profile image89
            Sharlee01posted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

            If individuals can gather on our streets, calling for "Death To America," burning our flag, and targeting Jews, then it seems unjust to muzzle Trump for voicing sentiments shared by many. He undeniably commands significant support and deserves the chance to counter a media that often paints him as guilty without substantiation and a public quick to judge, regardless of traditional notions of justice.

            1. Willowarbor profile image61
              Willowarborposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

              Why shouldn't Trump be subject to the same rules as any other criminal defendant?  Commentary on jurors and witnesses is not allowed.  Why should an exception be carved out for him?  He couldn't keep his vile mouth shut so the judge slapped a gag order on him...as he should.  The judge didn't arbitrarily place him under a gag order. As usual, Trump did it to himself.

              There are a good number of us out here that are really just sick and tired of his whining, complaining and faked victimhood.  Had any of us acted in the same manner, our ass*s would have been in jail the first time we dared to open our mouths to comment on witnesses or jurors. Trump is always given a long rope.  The man is a sociopath who believes rules do not apply to him.

              1. Sharlee01 profile image89
                Sharlee01posted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

                I appreciate the care you put into your responses. It speaks volumes about your character, showing that you value meaningful engagement over mere brevity. Your dedication to thoughtful debate is something I truly enjoy.

                Your observation resonates with a widespread sentiment. Yet, it's important to acknowledge differing perspectives. While some share your viewpoint, others perceive issues surrounding free speech. Personally, I find myself somewhere in between; certain assertions seem valid while others less so. Nevertheless, there's a trend where advocates for free speech, particularly among college students nationwide, express themselves passionately, often in exaggerated terms, protected by the principle of free speech itself. This freedom, however, has stirred discomfort among many Jews and is regarded with reverence by others.

                Just my view, I don't feel some can manage to weight fairness, seeing all sides seems to be a problem.

                1. Willowarbor profile image61
                  Willowarborposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

                  "Nevertheless, there's a trend where advocates for free speech, particularly among college students nationwide, express themselves passionately, often in exaggerated terms, protected by the principle of free speech itself. "


                  Students protesting on a campus are not criminal defendants being tried before a jury.

                  The Supreme Court has found some gag orders are constitutional and others are not. The First Amendment right to free speech must be weighed with the Sixth Amendment right to a fair trial, on a case-by-case basis.

                  The Supreme Court has ruled that excessive public speech about a trial can result in it becoming unfair, making gag orders necessary,  I would think particularly  when a defendant has a megaphone.

                  There is no constitutional right to intimidate witnesses or jurors.

                  I do believe that Trump's lawyers challenged the gag order before a appellate panel and the order was upheld.  It's a narrow gag order also, it doesn't even include the judge or attorneys.

                  "The gag order still affords Trump free rein to talk about a host of issues,  he can comment on Judge Juan M. Merchan and District Attorney Alvin Bragg and raise political arguments as he sees fit.”

                  Merchan imposed the 10th $1,000 fine today  for the broadcast interview in Which Trump said: "That jury was picked so fast - 95% Democrats. The area's mostly all Democrat."

                  And another violation...

                  "With jury selection well under way on Apr. 17, Trump made a TruthSocial post quoting Fox News commentator Jesse Watters, which smeared prospective jurors as "undercover liberal activists."

                  "They are catching undercover Liberal Activists lying to the Judge in order to get on the Trump Jury," Trump wrote in the post"

                  Maybe he should just follow the rules and not attempt to try his case in the media?   In this matter, he has had his due process and is subject to the rules just like the rest of us. What's so hard for him to keep his big mouth shut about jurors or witnesses?

                  Also, the gag order in his DC case was upheld on appeal although it was slightly narrowed.

              2. My Esoteric profile image87
                My Esotericposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

                "Why should an exception be carved out for him? " - Because he is Trump and is "special".lol.

            2. My Esoteric profile image87
              My Esotericposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

              Are talking about the gag order preventing him from potentially bringing harm to court and DA staff, witnesses, and jurors?

              If you are, then that is a very false equivalency in my opinion.

 
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