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Not Stealing Palestine, but Purchasing Israel

  1. TMMason profile image63
    TMMasonposted 6 years ago

    What is the truth of Israel and its founding? Are those Palistinians of today, really the Palistinians of yester-year?

    "Zionists stole Palestinian land: That’s the mantra both the Palestinian Authority and Hamas teach their children and propagate in their media. This claim has vast importance, as Palestinian Media Watch explains: “Presenting the creation of the [Israeli] state as an act of theft and its continued existence as a historical injustice serves as the basis for the PA’s non-recognition of Israel’s right to exist.” The accusation of theft also undermines Israel’s position internationally.

    But is this accusation true?"

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/ … niel-pipes

    "The land that now makes up Israel was no exception. In Jerusalem Besieged: From Ancient Canaan to Modern Israel, Eric H. Cline writes of Jerusalem: “No other city has been more bitterly fought over throughout its history.” He backs up that claim, counting “at least 118 separate conflicts in and for Jerusalem during the past four millennia.” He calculates Jerusalem to have been destroyed completely at least twice, besieged 23 times, captured 44 times, and attacked 52 times. The PA fantasizes that today’s Palestinians are descended from a tribe of ancient Canaan, the Jebusites; in fact, they are overwhelmingly the offspring of invaders and immigrants seeking economic opportunities."

    NO!... they are not. And they do not own Israel. Long live Israel! This latest attempt to legitamize the palistinian state is just another lie.

    "Zionists also focused on the rehabilitation of what was barren and considered unusable. They not only made the desert bloom, but drained swamps, cleared water channels, reclaimed wasteland, forested bare hills, cleared rocks, and removed salt from the soil. Jewish reclamation and sanitation work precipitously reduced the number of disease-related deaths.

    Only when the British Mandate of Palestine gave up power in 1948, followed immediately by an all-out attempt by Arab states to crush and expel the Zionists, did the latter take up the sword in self-defense and go on to win land through military conquest. Even then, as the historian Efraim Karsh demonstrates in Palestine Betrayed, most Arabs fled their lands; exceedingly few were forced off."

    1. dutchman1951 profile image60
      dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

      but...does not Israel also fantasize that they are direct decendents of The Tribe of David?    Just asking, not intended as a smart A question.

      I am not against Israel, but the Palistenians have human rights issues also. and Israel has supressed thier rights in truth?

      1. TMMason profile image63
        TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Actually no... I believe they have even done DNA test to show they, many of them,  are descendents from the tribes of Israel. You can only be born a Jew if your mother is Jewish, and they have been pretty anal about record of family lines, and we know the Germans were indeeed anal to the extreme about records and catagorizing the Jews from other races.

        So no I do't think so.

        I will delve into that question though Dutch and get back to you... okay? I don't want to go through the research if your just going to whatever it and ignore it though. But DNA is pretty accurate at origins of ethenicity, they have used it to track human migration and Indian tribes in america and thier claim to Jewish decent. So...

        Here is a pretty good article on it... but as it says there has been so many inter-mixes of blood that it is a difficult thing to find out. But they do reference the Levite and

        "With the exception of Levi, Jews cannot really know if they are personal descendants of the Tribe of Judah or  Benyamin, or if their families were converts to the religion of Judaism at one time in their history.  Unfortunately, all birth records of these Tribes including Levi were destroyed when the Temple at Yerusalem was burned in 70 A.D. by the Romans. "

        http://www.twohouses.org/twelve-tribes.htm

        Also... the point of the article is also that that land was puchased. Not stolen. Lets not ignore that fact.

        1. dutchman1951 profile image60
          dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

          delve, would like to see the answer and read it. I have a bit of a problem with that Belfure agreement in the League of Nations. but will look at it much further and comment from a research standpoint. but I think the purchase did not pay the actual Land Owners as I Understand it right now, but will look deeper.

          What happened in those meetngs, I do have access to actual notes and accounts at Vanderbuilt Library and I will ask for access. should be interesting, I think, hope they will allow me.

        2. profile image0
          Texasbetaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          DNA evidence to prove they are descendants of the Tribe of Israel? That might be the dumbest thing I have read in a month. You can't do DNA evidence on a fairy tale goofball. You don't have evidence of Israel, much less his DNA. It is a story in a book. The idiocy is astounding.

        3. profile image0
          Texasbetaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          ""http://www.twohouses.org/twelve-tribes.htm
          Also... the point of the article is also that that land was puchased. Not stolen. Lets not ignore that fact."

          ARE YOU KIDDING ME? You listed a Jewish story on a website as fact? "Let's not ignore the fact?" REALLY? Oh holy cow....how absolutely clueless could you possibly be? It gets more remarkable each time I read your posts.
          Here, her is factual evidence that Santa Claus is real:
          http://www.carols.org.uk/twas_the_night … istmas.htm
          More comical each time Mason....you are like the Jersey Shore of political discussions.

          1. profile image0
            Texasbetaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            I'm waiting Mason - where is your DNA evidence? Are you going to own up to your flat out lie? Yeah...I didn't think so.

            1. profile image0
              Texasbetaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

              Hmmm....waiting for the liar to own up to the lie, like a MAN would. Yeah, didn't think so.

    2. knolyourself profile image59
      knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

      That's world history is a sentence. We will use your land better than you, so we get to take and have it and not you.

    3. knolyourself profile image59
      knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

      I am curious as to what DNA tests have to do with DED or property deeds.

    4. lovemychris profile image80
      lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

      So then, La Raza is right...they have claims to New Mexico, Texas and part of California?

      You are saying people in Europe, such as Bibiguns, whose father was born in Lithuania, have more claim to Palestine than families who have lived there for generations.

      And WE, with our tax dollars, should pay for these Europeans to go to Gaza, kick the generational families out, steal their land, raze their olive orchards, bottle up their wells, and occupy their homes.

      Ummmm, I have bad news for you New Mexicans......Mexicans were here first....GET OUT!

      Oh, and why don't we invite Israel to establish their home here?
      Mason...you can be the first to give up your home and put your kids in a tent, m-kay?

      1. TMMason profile image63
        TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Is that what you got from that?... lollllllllll oh you crack me up chris. lolllllllll

        So you now supprt Israel. Good glad to hear it.

        And the Spanish do not belong there, either. Mexicans, who are decendents from Spain and Portugal, most likely with alot of slave blood mixed in, are far from the indigenious people of the Southeastern United states and Mexico. They are in fact as responsible for the destruction of the indigenious peoples. But why bother with that lil fact.

        1. lovemychris profile image80
          lovemychrisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          Yes--you said Jews have the right to Gaza and Jerusalem...hell, the whole Middle East, right? that IS the goal.

          It is no different than La Raza wanting their land back. They say it is their's, we stole it in a war....no one even disputes that, so.....

          Oh, and can Israel pay the Mexicans to come here and take over for the Americans living there?

          Militarily, of course.

          1. TMMason profile image63
            TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            La'Raza can claim what they want, they are decendents of the Spanish, not the indigenous peoples. We know that blood is very few and far between.

            1. lovemychris profile image80
              lovemychrisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

              How far back you wanna go?

              I will bet you have no right to be where you are, should we play that game.

              Try dealing with the reality of here and now.
              Try seeing what the rest of the world sees.....

              Brutal military occupation.
              Suffering, death and misery.....and for what?

              Because they are not Jewish.

    5. Dame Scribe profile image61
      Dame Scribeposted 6 years ago

      This is one of the problems that arise after a colonial power leaves (sound familiar?) tongue Israel was formed by the UN and followed the recommendations of the Zionist movemt - Palestine be divided. A large # of Jewish people already lived there in Palestine (British governed at tht time), had developed their own little society within a society. A border was created and Palestinians within new borders found themselves as refugees. Subsequent attacks against the new state forced Israelites to fight back and gain new territories. They (Israel) totally redesigned the lands and personally, I think it's bc of their successful 'economy' and better lifestyle - is coveted - therefore conflict continues. I think, to date, they still are not recognized by any of the other Arab states hmm maybe to justify their continued attacks? They use to live in peace many times - but when they became successful - their demise became a goal. It's very sad and you'd think civility be word of the day but, no. sad I am not sure what to make of that taking new territory through conflict - but maybe consider it as compensation for terrorizing and warring against them? It's a tough question. hmm but I don't agree with continuously attacking Israel. They are human beings with a different religion, so what tongue I think the Arabs could 'learn' from Israel to better their own lands too. It seems more like - they are warring against the UN.

      1. dutchman1951 profile image60
        dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Dame, your first sentence brings Iraq into mind here also, what now?

    6. lovemychris profile image80
      lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

      . But why bother with that lil fact.

      That's what I've been tellign YOU. People were living in Palestine. Foreing gvts kicked them out.

      Their land was stolen, even though they had nothing to do with the Holocaust.

      I say bring Israel HERE--and you give up your home Mason. Put your money where your mouth is.

      1. TMMason profile image63
        TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        That land was purchased... read the article.

        And those people there now are from the surrounding Arab nations who were told to go there in 48 and that the islamic armies would be there to crush israel... they tried that and lost... then left those people, their own people, to be refugees, refusing to let them return to their home in the ARAB countries. Read a Middle-Eastern paper from the 49-50-51 era.

        Also that land was puchased and made into what it is today.

        And Israel belongs where it is.

        And as I have stated the Balfur Declaration would never have been enforced if not for Palistines and Islam's involvment in slaughtering Jews with the Germans in WWII and their actions in WWI,...

        http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html

        There is alot more to Islam's history then you all want to admit, or even know. They had their chance and blew it. The world proved that it could not be trusted to not kill the Jews, and protect them.,.. and that made Israel a requirment for their own protection and continuance in life.

      2. TMMason profile image63
        TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        I would gladly give Israel the southern border and tell them it is their's and not to let anyone pass through to here. A nice wide strip right across the country... but Israel is where it is,.. and it belongs there.

        1. lovemychris profile image80
          lovemychrisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          No, I said YOU give up YOUR home Mason...you expect others to...

          And hopefully, the world will turn a blind eye to your suffering, as you have done.

          Israel....How are you any better than the Nazi's?

          1. TMMason profile image63
            TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            I have not turned a blind eye to the suffering of Israel... not at all.

            that would be you and your leftist friends chris.

            1. lovemychris profile image80
              lovemychrisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

              Ok play dense.

              You turn a blind eye to the suffering of Palestinians.

              And my eyes opened when I heard about the Intifada.

              They call it Nakba...The Catastrophe.

              I have all the sympathy in the world for anyone suffering....right now it's not Israel.

              1. TMMason profile image63
                TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                I know what Nakba is chris... again I have all the sympathy i the world for Israel. And you know I do sypathize with the refugees, that their own countrie will not allow them to come home after so many decades. ie; Egypt, Jorda, Saria, Iran, etc.

    7. profile image0
      Valemanposted 6 years ago

      I can see both sides of the debate.  It is true that the state of Israel is a modern one, which was created in response to centuries of discrimination against the Jews in Europe.  It seems only natural that people who have been persecuted so much throughout history should want a homeland of their own.  It is also true that part of what is now the land of Israel is the same land described in the Old Testament as belonging to the Jews.  It is the result of various diaspora, that the Jews have been forced to dwell in nations other than their original homeland, which have not wanted them, and which have persecuted them horribly. There is only one Jewish nation (although it is officially secular) in the world, and I can't help sympathising with a people who have experienced so much discrimination in their history.  The Palestinians on-the-other-hand are also entitled to their own homeland, and I can understand the fact that they feel their land has been occupied.  There needs to be some sort of compromise, but I doubt this happening, as this land has been fought over for centuries, and I see no signs of this fight ending any time soon.

      1. TMMason profile image63
        TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Let the surrounding Arab countries give some land to Palistine to create a country for them. There are many Arab countries and only one Israel.

        1. Ms Dee profile image87
          Ms Deeposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          Yes! The Arab countries should be the ones to give land to the Palestinians. They don't, because they want to oppress Israel with this problem they have created, themselves. They want the problem to continue! Then they can squash Israel...their plan all along.

    8. Dame Scribe profile image61
      Dame Scribeposted 6 years ago

      I think the Arabs could make a alternative offer if they truly desired it tongue but should least offer a buying price for the newly reshaped lands, labor, businesses, homes, agriculture, etc., hmm and the new lands be of the same value but I highly doubt that would happen. tongue

      1. TMMason profile image63
        TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Last time israel gave them fully developed land in a deal... the Muslims destroyed it in under a day. They, Islam, want nothing but the destruction of Israel.

        It is core Qu'ranic principle and cannot be ignored. The Qu'ran and hadith both talk about the death of the Jews for the corruption they spread in the world. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Islam must destroy Israel and kill all the jews.

        And this is just one of many such commands, not only in the Hadith, but the Qu'ran also.

        "Book 041, Number 6985:

        Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews."

        ... And it is even in the charter of HAMAs

        http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc … 1.smt.html

        And as I have said... Anti-Semetism has been the tie that binds Europe and Islam for over a millineum. And I doubt it has changed.

        And chris' argument states the exact pupose of this action at the UN. To try to force nations to give up land to break the countries apart and diminish their power. And we all know how well the powers that be have done at drawing borders in the last century or more.

        1. lovemychris profile image80
          lovemychrisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          Arabs are semites...Europeans are not.
          Who is the anti-semite here Mason? I say it is you.

          1. TMMason profile image63
            TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Your right the term anti-Semite is a mis-gnomer. But it has its definition and that is how we use it. So... try another game chris.

            1. lovemychris profile image80
              lovemychrisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

              It's no game.
              You feel Europeans are entitled to land where people have lived for centuries.
              You think those people who have lived there for centuries have no rights.
              "Eh, just let the other Arabs have em."

              And you want sympathy for the Jewish people, for their suffering.....

              Is Jewish suffering somehow more important than Palestinian suffering?

              And--what happens when the victim becomes the victimizer?

              1. Dame Scribe profile image61
                Dame Scribeposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                Hi Chris smile war and conflict is not pretty for anybody. Israel should give the option for the Palestinians in 'their' zone to leave or deport them altogether - for safety reasons to both peoples or for instigating/participating troubles to Israel hmm behind anger is pain and somebody sooner or later, lashes out. sad

                1. lovemychris profile image80
                  lovemychrisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  Deport them......
                  I can't say anything to this...I'm stunned.
                  It is wrong beyond wrong what has happened to them....and now they should go alltogether?

                  There is no Justice in the world...least of all from those who have been persecuted themselves.

                  I am numb with the cruelty. And the hard-headed refusal to see others as human beings.

                  1. TMMason profile image63
                    TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    They should be allowed by the Arab Nations who sent them to return to their homes chris... I agree that what their Govts have done and are doing is cruel and they should stop treating their own like that.

                    1. lovemychris profile image80
                      lovemychrisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                      Sent them?

                      So--those people who were kicked off the land, who was that?

                  2. Dame Scribe profile image61
                    Dame Scribeposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    If I lived in Israel and was trying to be neighborly and helpful to the Palestinians - n they threw a grenade into my home. I would want them deported at the least even though I'd be crying for blood tongue I would want to be better than stooping to barbarism.

                    I didn't mean deport them for being Palestinian - only if they were 'joining' in the conflict within borders of Israel.

                    1. lovemychris profile image80
                      lovemychrisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                      See--you start with the premise that Israel has a right to all that land. I don't.
                      I see Bibiguns as the intruder, and my country as the enabler.

                      If someone came and forced you out of your home at gun-point...what should be done with them?

              2. TMMason profile image63
                TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                NO it isn't a game chris. And I hate to break it to you but I am American... not European. smile

                1. lovemychris profile image80
                  lovemychrisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  And I hate to break it to you, but this is America, not Israel.

                  We have an obligation to others in this country, besides the Zionists!

                  1. TMMason profile image63
                    TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    Israel is our closest and best allie, and japan also... so yea we do. S. Korea, Phillipines, and a very few others.

                    Not mexico or Pakistan, or Palistine, or Iran, or the rest of the American haters.

                    1. lovemychris profile image80
                      lovemychrisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                      You forget who you are talking to.

                      I believe that factions in Israel (Zio-Cons) helped execute 9/11.

                      There are no worse haters than that.

    9. Dame Scribe profile image61
      Dame Scribeposted 6 years ago

      I don't mind that they have their own religion and follow their Qu'ran smile but when they take it beyond their own lands and borders -now it's my issue too. They can keep it all they want, I have no problems with that - but when they start 'invading' others with it and striking out - that's not acceptable. It's disrespectful. It's like me coming into your house and helping myself to your belongings tongue is that right?

    10. Reality Bytes profile image90
      Reality Bytesposted 6 years ago

      I have recently read "From Beirut to Jerusalem" written by Thomas Friedman.  I highly recommend it for anyone who would like to read first hand experience of the conflict.  smile

      1. lovemychris profile image80
        lovemychrisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        He was there in 48?????

      2. TMMason profile image63
        TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Friedman is an Islamic apologist, along with Amanpour.

        1. Reality Bytes profile image90
          Reality Bytesposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          I found the book to lay out both sides pretty well.  I cannot speak of the author himself.

          1. TMMason profile image63
            TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            I will look into it reality, but Friedman himself is biased. But maybe he pulled off a fair tract. You never know.

        2. lovemychris profile image80
          lovemychrisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          Oh geez...in that case...I take away my snide remark. Sorry Reality Bites.... was sure you'd be with Mason on this.

    11. knolyourself profile image59
      knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

      "n they threw a grenade into my home"
      n and if they surrounded you in your neighborhood here in the US, you wouldn't throw a grenade into one of their houses. Probably someone would.

    12. knolyourself profile image59
      knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

      Was Pat Buchanan who said: "Washington is Israeli occupied territory".

      1. lovemychris profile image80
        lovemychrisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        He's not the only one either.

    13. knolyourself profile image59
      knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

      "so it is up to them to do it for themselves." Which is no doubt why the US gives them 3 billion a year.

      1. TMMason profile image63
        TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Add up what we give Islamic nations, and all the others who despise us.

        1. Ms Dee profile image87
          Ms Deeposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          The principle followed by Islamic nations is to push and push and push for all they can get without giving anything themselves.

      2. lovemychris profile image80
        lovemychrisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        HA! Good point! AND gives them weaponry, and is building that Iron Dome.And has a member of Congress...Cantor, wanting to make Israel's aid a permanent part of OUR budget.

        While we were losing our homes, we were paying European settlers to steal land!

    14. lovemychris profile image80
      lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

      And your credibility is far gone to me.

      1. TMMason profile image63
        TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Well thank you Chris... that is one hell of a compliment considering the source. Thank you, so very much.

        1. lovemychris profile image80
          lovemychrisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          You're welcome.
          See you at Armaggedon.

          1. TMMason profile image63
            TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            At the rate things are going, you may have that one right.

    15. knolyourself profile image59
      knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

      And consider it the price of oil and gas.

      1. TMMason profile image63
        TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Only if we do not drill our own, and gas too. God knows, and so do we, green sources are 75 to a hundred years out, if that short a time.

        1. dutchman1951 profile image60
          dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

          tm, this link?   an eye opener for real.

          1. TMMason profile image63
            TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            ?... which link Dutch? I have pasted a few.. or is it one of yours? someone elses?

            1. dutchman1951 profile image60
              dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

              no yours, "Tell Children the Truth, this time line of facts, wow

              1. TMMason profile image63
                TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                It is quite a lil bit of unknown history, is it not.

                I said Dutch, more than most know has been hidden, as regards Israel's founding and the reasons why. Remember, tell the children the truth, so as to keep history from repeating itself.

                You know Dutch, I do not say things just to hate on people. Regardless of what many on here think.

                1. dutchman1951 profile image60
                  dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  can not argue with that point!

                  1. TMMason profile image63
                    TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    Thank you for taking the time to research that site friend. I know what I was saying sounded really far out there, but Israel was given their land as recompense for the actions of Islam in both World wars. People think I am crazy and a hater, but no, it is a fact.

                    Thank you for looking into it. And how about those Islamic SS units... pretty nice guys eh?

                    Believe it or not I do know a thing or two... or more,... about history. My facts simply do not match what they teach. I cannot help that.

                    1. dutchman1951 profile image60
                      dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                      it also makes me wounder how well calculated that Nazi movement was, and how far back it really came into exhistance?

                      My Grandmother lived in Hamburg Germany and She and my Grandfather left Germany through Poland, but every time I asked I was told, we do not talk about that snooky, she used to call me that!   don't laugh!

                      They had a store there and it was trashed by Hitler youth, because Grandpa had a Jewish Mother.  I wish I would have sat more with them. found out more. They came here and re made themselves in Norwalk Con. He had 3 health food stores when he passed away. I did see my Last Name on the wall at Ellis, feel proud of that.

                      a lot left out of History Books I guess.

    16. Dame Scribe profile image61
      Dame Scribeposted 6 years ago

      I also think Israel deserve their place in this world too. It's time to move forward and 'ADAPT' tongue make a better future for the children rather than leave a history of death and violence hmm Denial and staying angry only stunts growth lol tongue

      1. dutchman1951 profile image60
        dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Dame do a hub if you have not, on those experiences, would be interesting and enlightening.

        1. TMMason profile image63
          TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          So Dutch. Would you agree they, Israel, belong there?

          1. dutchman1951 profile image60
            dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

            I was never in doubt they belong, but the story I thought I knew is not all so.

            going further with this, I am facinated by the history here.

      2. dutchman1951 profile image60
        dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

        But can they let it Go Dame, move forwardd?  It is so needed.

    17. knolyourself profile image59
      knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

      Course there is the theory that Israel was created as a non-Muslim military outpost,
      right out there in the western controlled oil fields.

      1. dutchman1951 profile image60
        dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Back then was Oil a concern as it is today?

        League of Nations had other concerns I believe.

        1. TMMason profile image63
          TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          It was for the oil that that was hidden.

          I have an old book called, "ARAMCO, and it's world". it goes into the setting up of the middle east for oil after WWI, when oil itself was an emerging market, and Europe did not have the access to resources that America did.

          Then it goes to after WWII, the setting up of the Saud family and the National Oil industries after WWII. I thought it was just some old junk book when I first saw it, but damn if things didn't fall into place once I read it.

          Having known the history of Al'Amini and Islam in WWI and WWII, it really clicked the pieces in place.

          The same reason Germany courted and allied with the Muslims in the middle-east, was the same reason Britain wanted the middle east for its own, and the same reason they hid all those atrocities from the world, oil.

          Not a big market then, but those who saw it for what it would become, knew they needed to control it. And Islam kinda knew what they had in the ground.

          And so went the cover up.

          In the end, Islam was punished for their actions, but got to retain their anonimity and respect in the world. That has been abused now, and the truth needs be told. Islam is not and never will be what the apologists say it is. And as you say, how long had it been going on before the riech came to the public eye? Decades.

          As I said, Israel paid the price in blood, for the world to have their black blood, oil.

          And my American history is just as valid. Revisionsm, Dutch, it has fooled the world.  Thank the Frankfurt School and Cultural Marxism's Social Engeneering.

          1. dutchman1951 profile image60
            dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

            it has had me fooled aparently!   Bad part it is continued in some post H.S. education also, wow.

          2. TMMason profile image63
            TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Thank you, Dutch. I am happy that you are open to know. Besides, now I don't feel so damn crazy on here.

            1. dutchman1951 profile image60
              dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

              you are actualy passionate about the subject, not so extreme I think, now that I actually look. So no, not crazy at all. I can now see the education sources. makes sense

          3. dutchman1951 profile image60
            dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

            you have given me some great sudy subjects here TM, 
            excelent stuff I think.

            1. TMMason profile image63
              TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

              I wish more would look. But I will continue to shout at the top of my lungs to the world,... "You've been lied to!"

              And I hope you enjoy your studies. History is a great thing when you actually know it. Of course it gets you called a racist hater alot... but hell it's a job.

              I wish Chris would look with an open mind... maybe someday I will get her to.

              I know my country has done wrong, and my race and religion. But there is so much more to it all. I won't deny our wrong... but all the wrongs should be out there.

              1. dutchman1951 profile image60
                dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                I got big shoulders TM, its a contact sport at times I think   smile

          4. Ms Dee profile image87
            Ms Deeposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Yes! This fits other bits of information I've read here and there! Going to look up that book, ARAMCO, and it's world.

            1. TMMason profile image63
              TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

              Have you looked at  tell the children the truth. com  yet? You shoould, if not.

              http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/

              http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html

              Look here also... Palistinian refugees.

              http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-c … sp#Whathap

              The truth will stet us free, and save our nation and children.

              ARAMCO, I am not sure is even in print anymore, I have found three in what seems like a set so far... stll looking cause it seems there should be more. Please let me know if you find more of them.

              The one's I find are from 1980... and the ones I have are... the first is from 1954, the second from 1966, the third is from 1980, and the third is a cleaner version of some of the other two and some additions. So look to get the older ones if possible. But I feel there may be more out there.

              1. Ms Dee profile image87
                Ms Deeposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                Those sites you list sure are good information. I'm reading "As America Has Done to Israel" which has helped me to grasp the overall panorama picture of Israel being returned to the land (promised by God to Abraham and his descendants) and America's part in it. This big picture is a help for me to relating all these details. (The author gives facts showing that since the 'peace' process was initiated in 1991 by Bush #41, Israel has not had the American support it used to have.) A used copy I found on amazon.com just arrived of "Saudi Aramco and its world: Arabia and the Middle East", though a 1995 revised edition it was just 2 cents (plus shipping) so I got it anyways to see at least some of what you are referring to. Will keep my eye out for earlier editions.

                1. TMMason profile image63
                  TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  I have been thinking of scanning the 1954 and 1966 editions onto my computer, but I am not so sure that is a good idea. I know some on here would love to scream plagerism and copy-right infringment at me, MsDee. And I do not want to destroy them anymore than they are by flexing the binds to get the print to take.

                  But if I hook my scanner up and scan it in I will let you know, and I could probrably e-mail it as a PDF to yourself and others if you want them.

                  But I am happy you like those sites. They are very revealing about the History of the Middle-East, Europe and American policies, from the end of the first world war till today.

                  Remember MsDee, tell the children the truth, or we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. It may not be pleasant, or flattering to those countries we love, but the truth is what is needed for the next generations to find their way in this world.

                  1. profile image0
                    Texasbetaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    Do you mean "mistakes of the past" like McCarthyism?

                  2. Ms Dee profile image87
                    Ms Deeposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    It is the truth that is so hard to come by and is needed. All this information is, I'm afraid, pointing out that America is and has been in decline.

                    1. TMMason profile image63
                      TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                      Yes, mam.

                      Since the secular Leftists infiltrated our Cultural Institutions we have been slowly decining. The Left can call it "Progress" all they want. We have become a laughing stock to the rest of the world.

                      You should investigate the "Frankfurt School" and "Cultural Marxism", and "Critical theory".

                      http://www.academia.org/the-origins-of- … rrectness/

                      http://gseis.ucla.edu/faculty/kellner/e … arxism.pdf

                      http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/critical-theory/

                      Critical theory is all about destroying a nations pride in its traditions and understandings, by tearing into to it with nothing but criticism. There is nothing good about anything and they stress that in all the fields of a Nations past, beliefs, understandings, religions, founding, etc...

                      The Frankfurt School was thrown out of NAZI Germany by Hitler, and don't you know Columbia university and the other bastions of higher education took them in, and instituted their philosphy in order to sebvert American culture and slowly "nudge" us to where they wanted us to go.

                      As Antonio Gramsci said, in the western world armed revolution to achieve the over-throw of the western nations won't work. What is required is a long slow steady march throughout the Cultural Institutions of the west, in order to gain control of the Histories, Education system, Religions, and Political mechanisms, in order to affect the change desired and to create a Marxist paradise.

                      First they re-write history, then they teach it to your children, and their children, and within a few generations no one knows the truth. And their affects are easy to see, look at how so many agressively fight to uphold the lies they were taught in college, high-school, etc. And then they send them out like bulldogs into the world to support and spread those lies, and attack ayone who does not agree with them. As exemplified by so many on here, who cannot debate, simply attack as if that proves their point. All the while not knowing they are simply showing their ignorance through their own actions. Of course a major part of the plan is to try to flip it on the one who doesn't agree with them. Just as the frankfurt School said to, and exemplified in their twitsting of History and our education systems.

                      And it worked to a T., MsDee.

                      http://www.marylandthursdaymeeting.com/ … arxism.htm

                      http://www.rosarychurch.net/marxism/list.html

                      I would look into it if I were you, or any American, who wishes to understand just what has been done to our country.

    18. knolyourself profile image59
      knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

      "Back then was Oil a concern as it is today?"
      Might watch 'Reilly Ace Of Spies 1983
      Sam Neill'. British miniseries maybe six hours. Great. True story greatest spy that ever lived so they say. He was scouting for oil in Mideast before World I i believe, for the British. At some point the British moved their ship fleets from coal to oil, and since they had no oil then, that's what it all became about.

      1. dutchman1951 profile image60
        dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

        wrote this down, looks very interesting

        1. TMMason profile image63
          TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          And this touches on the Palistinians and where they came from in 1948...

          ""According to official records of the League of Nations and Arab census figure 539,000 Arabs left Israel at the urging of 7 converging Arab armies so that they would not be in the way of their attack. They promised the fleeing Arabs they would return and move into the Jews' houses after the anticipated successful annihilation of the Jews.

          "We know that 850,000 Jews were ejected from the Arab countries where they had lived for hundreds of years. This included successful people whose property and assets, including community assets were immediately confiscated. 750,000 penniless Jews from Arab countries fled to Israel.

          "This was a virtual exchange of population. The Jewish refugees were immediately accepted by the new State of Israel. They were provided with shelter (albeit temporary tents) food and clothing.

          "The Arab refugees who had migrated to various Arab nations were not similarly well received. They were regarded not as Arab brothers but as unwelcome migrants who were not to be trusted. Squalid refugee camps were set up as showpieces to induce the West's sympathy and kept that way. The UN through UNRWA (UN Relief Agency) provided assistance to the camps when the host country could not or would not. These camps became a training ground for terrorist youth to be targeted at Israel. The host country, like Syria, would provide training, weapons and explosives, but refused to absorb the Arab refugees as equal citizens. Keeping them in misery made them valuable and irreplaceable as angry front line terrorists attacking Israel as proxies for the Arab armies who lost to the Jews on the field of battle in declared wars. The Twin Pillars supporting Arab Muslim society are "Pride and Shame". Losing to the Jews on the battlefield time and again in 6 wars shattered the self perception of the Macho Man."

          http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-c … sp#Whathap

          They, the Arab nations, need to take their people back

      2. dutchman1951 profile image60
        dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

        I was originaly thinking less population, less demand and less of a crisis, but, was not thinking about it just emerging.

        1. TMMason profile image63
          TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          History is full of lies, Dutch.

          The Arab States created the problem we have today. Israel has never refused to help... but how many times do you allow the assassins in the back door?

          1. dutchman1951 profile image60
            dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

            you don't, we today I am begining to thnk are doing this very thing right here in Nashville. The Mosque in Murfreesboro for example, known ties to the Brotherhood, and still the build is on, now. FBI has even provided paper to the Council, according to the Tennessean, and yet the dozers roar!  people are very concerned now, but not enough I fear. There is a hidden cell here I am begining to believe.

          2. dutchman1951 profile image60
            dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

            one thing I did hear when I was there on Firld Service, was the palistenian Merchants talk of being taxed out of business by the Israeli goverment, but I never saw a collector visit one, but i was not with them all day.

            Many unfair complaints then, late 70's early 80's.

    19. dutchman1951 profile image60
      dutchman1951posted 6 years ago

      you guys are peaking my interest in world history. love this.

      1. TMMason profile image63
        TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        That is a very good link there. Tells the truth. the Arab nations saw the use for those refugees way back when, and they have used them since and blamed it on Israel.

        Here is the most important part...

        ""We know that 850,000 Jews were ejected from the Arab countries where they had lived for hundreds of years. This included successful people whose property and assets, including community assets were immediately confiscated. 750,000 penniless Jews from Arab countries fled to Israel.

        "This was a virtual exchange of population. The Jewish refugees were immediately accepted by the new State of Israel. They were provided with shelter (albeit temporary tents) food and clothing.

        "The Arab refugees who had migrated to various Arab nations were not similarly well received. They were regarded not as Arab brothers but as unwelcome migrants who were not to be trusted. Squalid refugee camps were set up as showpieces to induce the West's sympathy and kept that way.

        These camps became a training ground for terrorist youth to be targeted at Israel. The host country, like Syria, would provide training, weapons and explosives, but refused to absorb the Arab refugees as equal citizens. Keeping them in misery made them valuable and irreplaceable as angry front line terrorists attacking Israel as proxies for the Arab armies who lost to the Jews on the field of battle in declared wars.

        And that is the facts... read the link, it is all well documented.

        "The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, THEY ABANDONED THEM, FORCED THEM TO EMIGRATE AND TO LEAVE THEIR HOMELAND, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe, as if we were condemned to change places with them; they moved out of their ghettos and we occupied similar ones. The Arab States succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did not recognize them as a unified people until the States of the world did so, and this is regrettable".

        How many lies can they get away with... but look at the kids on the Left in the colleges... do you think they would bother to learn this? No they are filled full of lies and sent forth, just like the original refugees.

        Sad world we have let it become.

        And make no mistake it is our, the world's, fault. All of us!

      2. TMMason profile image63
        TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        You know Dutch, I was not lying to you last nite. I hope you understand that now. I do not say things simply to hate on people. If you don't, that is fine.

        But I have studied Islam with some very well known Scholars, friend. And they told me the truth others hide. They are not ashamed of this history, they enmbrace it.

        1. dutchman1951 profile image60
          dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

          I can see this TM, no you are not lying.

          what did those scholars say as to taking thier people back?  am curious?

          1. TMMason profile image63
            TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            "We have a better use for them, insha-allah, -god willing-", note the quotes. "It is every Muslims honor to die in the jihad, and to be a part of the extermination of the worst of the corruptors in this world, any Muslim would be proud." I said what if they do not want to be a part of that, "it is not their choice, allah has blessed them by placing them in the midst of the Dar al'harb (house of war), and for that, those who are there should feel blessed"

            I said but they have no idea... they said.. "it does not matter if a man, woman, or child, is involved volountarilly, or not, the honor will be theirs regardless. they shall be in paradise, and that is what matters in the end."

            It is known that Mohhammud said, that any innocents that get caught in the jihad and killed are as blessed, as those who go with their whole heart. They are blessed to be there, they have no room for complaint.

            1. TMMason profile image63
              TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

              As I said Dutch, they, muslims on here, do not challenge me for a reason. I see Islam in the eyes of Al'Fiqh... Law... all the words of allah are LAW! period. No other interpretation stands. I studied Al'fiqh with some very capable and knowledgable itjahdis, they are those who practice the derivation of Islamic law through thought and reason. It is they who determine the ijma, conclusions-concensus.

              1. dutchman1951 profile image60
                dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                they up-hold human sacrifice!

                I remember on assignment in Turkey once after we finished the Embasy exchange soft-ware. We went to a small dinner, and I do remember a Turkish Minister saying that America does not fully understand the Arab man. I am begining to see what he really was insinuating here. And in truth, we really may not.

                1. TMMason profile image63
                  TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  America does not. That is the God's honest truth. They tell us out-right and we seem to thiink they cannot mean it. They couldn't possibly be saying what they mean... what a joke America has become and it will be the death of our nation if it continues.

                  1. dutchman1951 profile image60
                    dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    I suspect they are laughing a bit also.

              2. TMMason profile image63
                TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                You should pick up a couple of -Andrew J Bostom's- books on Jihad and the history of.  "The Legacy of jihad", is very good, and he has followed that up with several more. You will see what Islamic immigration is all about.

                I am going to sign off for a while, dutch. I have some things to do and I will talk with you tomorrow. Have a good nite.

                1. dutchman1951 profile image60
                  dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  you also TM, have a good evening and be well. looking in the Book sales for the books suggested here this evening.

    20. Uninvited Writer profile image82
      Uninvited Writerposted 6 years ago

      I think the US should be returned to the original inhabitants, the natives.

    21. IntimatEvolution profile image80
      IntimatEvolutionposted 6 years ago

      TM, what is your positioning?

      1. TMMason profile image63
        TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        On Israel? I have stated it above.

        But for you IE I will state it again.

        If Palestine wants a country, let the Islamic nations supply the land outside of the current borders of Israel. I do not believe they, Palestine, should get anything if they will not give up hostilities against Israel and renounce their intent to destroy her.

        I believe if that is not good enough, then the Islamic nations who are responsible for the Palestinian refugee problem to begin with should re-absorb them.

        I think that sums it up. If not ask.

        1. dutchman1951 profile image60
          dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

          TM, as I said,  I have been looking this up, here is an article that sums up several History Texts from several university sources?  I was suprised!

          THE MYTH OF STOLEN ARAB LAND

          While the Arab-Israeli conflict today is a diplomatic and military one, it is also composed of a third element — the media. Not being confined, the media debate has spread throughout the internet, online newspapers, online journals and of course, blogs.
          Although contributors to online blogs and threads often offer nothing more than rubbish and repartee, there exists a lively and healthy debate on the Arab-Israeli conflict. One of the main points of contention on most blogs and discussions I have seen center around one issue. Pro-Palestinian writers claim that in 1948, Israel appropriated Palestinian lands and villages to create their own cities and agricultural communities. Pro-Israel writers offer good counterpoints but these are often insufficient to properly negate the argument and win the debate.
          Debaters from both sides of the argument often use sources gleaned from political, left or right-wing sources and this damages the quality of the argument since the proofs brought are often nothing more than the biased views of extreme groups. When making an argument, it is important to find credible information from sources that cannot be attributed to a specific political slant.
          The first part of the argument that Zionists stole Palestinian land can refer to the British Mandate period before the creation of the State of Israel in 1948. Arab absentee landowners owned most of the land eventually used by the UN to create the State of Israel and their willingness to sell the land to Jews demonstrates evident disinterest in maintaining ownership over it.
          Furthermore, Arab governments displaced their own populations in far greater numbers than the Jews displaced Palestinian Arabs up until the 1930's. Jews were careful not to buy land in areas that would cause Arab displacement and instead bought uncultivated land in remote areas. Israeli leaders at the time discouraged Jews from displacing Arabs and placed heavy importance on a continued Arab presence in the land.
          In January of 1937, Ben Gurion testified before the Palestine Royal Commission in which he said, "We will work it out together, and we will see to it that not a single Arab cultivator is displaced, but he should not only remain, but his conditions should be improved, and, by intensification, new room should be created for new Jewish settlers."
          However, even with this proposed cooperation, Arabs often sold their land to Jews when they decided to move elsewhere or when they needed the money to invest in promising Jewish-owned business projects.
          THE PEEL COMMISSION OF 1937 FOUND ARAB CLAIMS THAT JEWS STOLE THEIR LAND AS BASELESS. Land shortages were due more in part to massive Arab immigration to Palestine from other Arab countries than to Jewish land purchases. Chapter IX of the Peel Commission states,
          "The shortage of land is due less to purchase by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population. The Arab claims that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamps and uncultivated when it was bought."
          Whereas the British resigned much of Palestine to be "uninhabitable," the Jews took this "barren wasteland," drained the swamps and "made the desert bloom." Many of the Jewish-owned citrus groves at the time were situated on sand dunes viewed by the British as "uncultivable."
          It is without doubt that the Jews, in their quest to purchase and acquire more land, did not take any land from Arabs unlawfully. Furthermore, Arab absentee landlords living elsewhere and real estate brokers sold their land to Jews at an inflated cost.
          As of today, not a single person representing the pro-Palestinian view has been able to contradict this reality using any official documentation, land data or historical records.
          Furthermore, the Peel Commission admitted that Arabs on the whole, benefited from a growing Jewish presence in the land as they brought economic prosperity and stability to Palestine and its inhabitants.
          "The Arab population shows a remarkable increase since 1920, and it has had some share in the increased prosperity of Palestine. Many Arab landowners have benefited from the sale of land and the profitable investment of the purchase money. The fellaheen are better off on the whole than they were in 1920. This Arab progress has been partly due to the import of Jewish capital into Palestine and other factors associated with the growth of the National Home. In particular, the Arabs have benefited from social services which could not have been provided on the existing scale without the revenue obtained from the Jews."
          UP UNTIL 1948, THE PALESTINIAN ARAB POPULATION GREW APPROXIMATELY 120 PERCENT. This population growth occurred in tandem with Palestinian Jewish population growth and for reasons often overlooked. Jewish immigration and subsequent economic growth in Palestine led to increased Arab immigration from other countries by those seeking economic opportunity. Many Arabs at the time wandered around the Middle East seeking sustenance and a means to support their families.
          Arab claims that they were displaced from their homes after living there generation after generation for thousands of years were baseless and fabricated. Most Arabs living in Palestine prior to 1948 had come from Arab lands in search of subsistence and had not been in Palestine for more than a few years.
          In addition, the Jews cleared unused land, drained swamps in the Jezreel Valley and surrounding areas and in doing so, helped rid the country of its widespread malaria problem. They established medical clinics, improved water supplies and developed better solutions to deal with sanitation. All this, directly led to better health, higher standard of living, longer life expectancy and a lower infant mortality rate.
          It is clear that Arab complaints against Jews were, for the most part, politically motivated, and did not reflect the reality in Palestine at the time. In comparison to their lives in Arab countries or the situation in Palestine before massive Jewish immigration, Arabs saw a consistently increased improvement in their standard of living, overall health and improved economic stability — all while cultivating their own land.
          Israel Kasnett lives in Israel and is a pro-Israel advocate and political strategist. This article was published July 20, 2008 in Neo Constant
          http://www.neoconstant.com/429/the-myth … arab-land/

        2. IntimatEvolution profile image80
          IntimatEvolutionposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          I think your positioning is incredibly unfair.  You seem to be so one sided because one group happens to be Muslim.  Is that an accurate statement or have I just simply come into this argument way too late?  I'll be honest, I have not read the entire thread yet.  Sorry for that, but, your recap sounds very anti-Muslim.  You know, the Palestinians should have just the same rights as the Jewish people living in that land. But it is my opinion, and this is all I will say because I have written on this subject several times, that what Israel has been doing over there with our weaponry is nothing short of genocide. I think it was one of America's greatest mistakes to have said the words, "State of Israel" on the UN floor 1948.  What the Nazi's did to the Jews in Europe, for the past 60ty years we have allowed the very same carnage to occur at the expense of the Palestine peoples.  Some of who were not Muslim at all.

          Now as I stated this is my opinion, and how I feel.

          1. TMMason profile image63
            TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Yes you are way late to the thread. I could re-post alot of it, but then they would yell about spamming the thread. I could refer you to this link... And you do know that the Muslim SS was founded in Palestine and the Baltics to assist in the genocide of the Jews in the middle-East and Europe? That is stolen History no one talks about. Palestine is not bloodless in the holocaust, they assisted Hitler and slaughtered tens of thousands of Jews. Read the "tell the children the truth, site.

            http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/ … html#part2

            http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-c … sp#Whathap

            And this one...

            http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html

            And this is an earleir post as regards the true origin of the Palestinian refugees...

            That is a very good link there. Tells the truth. The Arab nations saw the use for those refugees way back when, and they have used them since and blamed it on Israel.

            Here is the most important part...

            ""We know, in 1947-48, that 850,000 Jews were ejected from the Arab countries where they had lived for hundreds of years. This included successful people whose property and assets, including community assets were immediately confiscated. 750,000 penniless Jews from Arab countries fled to Israel.

            "This was a virtual exchange of population. The Jewish refugees were immediately accepted by the new State of Israel. They were provided with shelter (albeit temporary tents) food and clothing.

            "The Arab refugees who had migrated to various Arab nations were not similarly well received. They were regarded not as Arab brothers but as unwelcome migrants who were not to be trusted. Squalid refugee camps were set up as showpieces to induce the West's sympathy and kept that way.

            These camps became a training ground for terrorist youth to be targeted at Israel. The host country, like Syria, would provide training, weapons and explosives, but refused to absorb the Arab refugees as equal citizens. Keeping them in misery made them valuable and irreplaceable as angry front line terrorists attacking Israel as proxies for the Arab armies who lost to the Jews on the field of battle in declared wars.

            And that is the facts... read the link, it is all well documented.

            "The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, THEY ABANDONED THEM, FORCED THEM TO EMIGRATE AND TO LEAVE THEIR HOMELAND, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe, as if we were condemned to change places with them; they moved out of their ghettos and we occupied similar ones. The Arab States succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did not recognize them as a unified people until the States of the world did so, and this is regrettable".

            How many lies can they get away with... but look at the kids on the Left in the colleges... do you think they would bother to learn this? No they are filled full of lies and sent forth, just like the original refugees.

            Before anyone insists Israel is wrong for the refugees they should know the entire history of this conflict. it has been twisted and made into lies to support a BS agenda.

            Also this is a great resource...

            http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-c … fugees.asp

            And this link also explains alot of stolen and twisted history

            http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p389_John.html

            And here is some eye-witness testimuny fromthose who lived through it...

            - by Abu Mazen, from the article titled: "What We Have Learned and What We Should Do", published in Falastin el Thawra, the official journal of the PLO, of Beirut, in March 1976

            "The first group of our fifth column consists of those who abandon their houses and businesses and go to live elsewhere. . . . At the first sign of trouble they take to their heels to escape sharing the burden of struggle."

            - Ash Shalab (Jaffa newspaper), January 30, 1948

            "The Arab streets are curiously deserted and, ardently following the poor example of the more moneyed class there has been an exodus from Jerusalem too, though not to the same extent as in Jaffa and Haifa."

            - London Times, May 5, 1948

            "The refugees were confident that their absence would not last long, and that they would return within a week or two. Their leaders had promised them that the Arab armies would crush the 'Zionist gangs' very quickly and that there was no need for panic or fear of a long exile."

            - Monsignor George Hakim, Greek Catholic Bishop of Galilee, in the Beirut newspaper Sada al Janub, August 16, 1948

            "Of the 62,000 Arabs who formerly lived in Haifa not more than 5,000 or 6,000 remained. Various factors influenced their decision to seek safety in flight. There is but little doubt that the most potent of the factors were the announcements made over the air by the -Higher Arab Executive, urging the Arabs to quit.. . . It was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades."

            - The London weekly Economist, October 2, 1948

            "It must not be forgotten that the Arab Higher Committee encouraged the refugees' flight from their homes in Jaffa, Haifa, and Jerusalem."

            - Near East Arabic Broadcasting Station, Cyprus, April 3, 1949

            "This wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boasting of an unrealistic Arab press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of some weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab States and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re-enter and retake possession of their country."

            - Edward Atiyah (then Secretary of the Arab League Office in London) in The Arabs (London, 1955), p. 183

            "The mass evacuation, prompted partly by fear, partly by order of Arab leaders, left the Arab quarter of Haifa a ghost city...By withdrawing Arab workers their leaders hoped to paralyze Haifa.".

            - Time, May 3, 1948, p. 25

            The Arab exodus, initially at least, was encouraged by many Arab leaders, such as Haj Amin el Husseini, the exiled pro-Nazi Mufti of Jerusalem, and by the Arab Higher Committee for Palestine. They viewed the first wave of Arab setbacks as merely transitory. Let the Palestine Arabs flee into neighboring countries. It would serve to arouse the other Arab peoples to greater effort, and when the Arab invasion struck, the Palestinians could return to their homes and be compensated with the property of Jews driven into the sea.

            - Kenneth Bilby, in New Star in the Near East (New York, 1950), pp. 30-31

            I do not want to impugn anybody but only to help the refugees. The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence of the action of the Arab States in opposing Partition and the Jewish State. The Arab States agreed upon this policy unanimously and they must share in the solution of the problem, [Daily Telegraph, September 6, 19481

            - Emil Ghoury, Secretary of the Arab Higher Committee, the official leadership of the Palestinian Arabs, in the Beirut newspaper, Daily Telegraph, September 6, 1948

            The Arab States encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies.

            - Falastin (Jordanian newspaper), February 19, 1949

            We will smash the country with our guns and obliterate every place the Jews seek shelter in. The Arabs should conduct their wives and children to safe areas until the fighting has died down.

            - Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Said, quoted in Sir Am Nakbah ("The Secret Behind the Disaster") by Nimr el Hawari, Nazareth, 1952

            The Secretary General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade. . . . He pointed out that they were already on the frontiers and that all the millions the Jews had spent on land and economic development would be easy booty, for it would be a simple matter to throw Jews into the Mediterranean. . . Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes, and property and to stay temporarily in neighboring fraternal states, lest the guns of the invading Arab armies mow them down.

            - Habib Issa, Secretary General of the Arab League (Azzam Pasha's successor), in the newspaper Al Hoda, June 8, 1951

            Some of the Arab leaders and their ministers in Arab capitals . . . declared that they welcomed the immigration of Palestinian Arabs into the Arab countries until they saved Palestine. Many of the Palestinian Arabs were misled by their declarations.... It was natural for those Palestinian Arabs who felt impelled to leave their country to take refuge in Arab lands . . . and to stay in such adjacent places in order to maintain contact with their country so that to return to it would be easy when, according to the promises of many of those responsible in the Arab countries (promises which were given wastefully), the time was ripe. Many were of the opinion that such an opportunity would come in the hours between sunset and sunrise.

            - Arab Higher Committee, in a memorandum to the Arab League, Cairo, 1952, quoted in The Refugee in the World, by Joseph B. Schechtman, 1963

            "The Arab governments told us: Get out so that we can get in. So we got out, but they did not get in."

            - from the Jordan daily Ad Difaa, September 6, 1954

            "The Arab civilians panicked and fled ignominiously. Villages were frequently abandoned before they were threatened by the progress of war."

            - General Glubb Pasha, in the London Daily Mail on August 12, 1948

            "The Arab exodus from other villages was not caused by the actual battle, but by the exaggerated description spread by Arab leaders to incite them to fight the Jews"

            - Yunes Ahmed Assad, refugee from the town of Deir Yassin, in Al Urdun, April 9, 1953

            "[The Arabs of Haifa] fled in spite of the fact that the Jewish authorities guaranteed their safety and rights as citizens of Israel."

            - Monsignor George Hakim, Greek Catholic Bishop of Galilee, according to Rev. Karl Baehr, Executive Secretary of the American Christian Palestine Committee, New York Herald Tribune, June 30, 1949

            "Every effort is being made by the Jews to persuade the Arab populace to stay and carry on with their normal lives, to get their shops and businesses open and to be assured that their lives and interests will be safe. [However] ...A large road convoy, escorted by [British] military . . . left Haifa for Beirut yesterday. . . . Evacuation by sea goes on steadily. ...[Two days later, the Jews were] still making every effort to persuade the Arab populace to remain and to settle back into their normal lives in the towns... [as for the Arabs,] another convoy left Tireh for Transjordan, and the evacuation by sea continues. The quays and harbor are still crowded with refugees and their household effects, all omitting no opportunity to get a place an one of the boats leaving Haifa.""

            - Haifa District HQ of the British Police, April 26, 1948, quoted in Battleground by Samuel Katz

            "The Arabs did not want to submit to a truce they rather preferred to abandon their homes, their belongings and everything they possessed in the world and leave the town. This is in fact what they did."

            - Jamal Husseini, Acting Chairman of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee, told to the United Nations Security Council, quoted in the UNSC Official Records (N. 62), April 23, 1948, p. 14

            "the military and civil authorities and the Jewish representative expressed their profound regret at this grave decision [to evacuate]. The [Jewish] Mayor of Haifa made a passionate appeal to the delegation to reconsider its decision"

            - The Arab National Committee of Haifa, told to the Arab League, quoted in The Refugee in the World, by Joseph B. Schechtman, 1963

            "...our city flourished and developed for the good of both Jewish and Arab residents ... Do not destroy your homes with your own hands; do not bring tragedy upon yourselves by unnecessary evacuation and self-imposed burdens. By moving out you will be overtaken by poverty and humiliation. But in this city, yours and ours, Haifa, the gates are open for work, for life, and for peace, for you and your families."

            The Haifa Workers' Council bulletin, 28 April 1948

            "...the Jewish hagana asked (using loudspeakers) Arabs to remain at their homes but the most of the Arab population followed their leaders who asked them to leave the country."

            The TIMES of London, reporting events of 22.4.48

            " The existence of these refugees is a direct result of the Arab States' opposition to the partition plan and the reconstitution of the State of Israel. The Arab states adopted this policy unanimously, and the responsibility of its results, therefore is theirs.

            ...The flight of Arabs from the territory allotted by the UN for the Jewish state began immediately after the General Assembly decision at the end of November 1947. This wave of emigration, which lasted several weeks, comprised some thirty thousand people, chiefly well-to-do-families."

            - Emil Ghory, secretary of the Arab High Council, Lebanese daily Al-Telegraph, 6 Sept 1948

            "Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave. Only a few months separated our call to them to leave and our appeal to the United Nations to resolve on their return."

            - Haled al Azm, the Syrian Prime Minister in 1948-49, The Memoirs of Haled al Azm, (Beirut, 1973), Part 1, pp. 386-387

            "Since 1948 it is we who demanded the return of refugees... while it is we who made them to leave... We brought disaster upon... Arab refugees, by inviting them and bringing pressure to bear upon them to leave... We have rendered them dispossessed... We have accustomed them to begging... We have participated in lowering their moral and social level... Then we exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson, and throwing bombs upon... men, women and children - all this in service of political purposes..."

            - Khaled al Azm, Syria's Prime Minister after the 1948 war [note: same person as above]

            "As early as the first months of 1948 the Arab League issued orders exhorting the people to seek a temporary refuge in neighboring countries, later to return to their abodes in the wake of the victorious Arab armies and obtain their share of abandoned Jewish property." - bulletin of The Research Group for European Migration Problems, 1957

            One morning in April 1948, Dr. Jamal woke us to say that the Arab Higher Committee (AHC), led by the Husseinis, had warned Arab residents of Talbieh to leave immediately. The understanding was that the residents would be able to return as conquerors as soon as the Arab forces had thrown the Jews out. Dr. Jamal made the point repeatedly that he was leaving because of the AHC's threats, not because of the Jews, and that he and his frail wife had no alternative but to go.

            Commentary Magazine -- January 2000, http://www.commentarymagazine.com/0001/letters.html

          2. dutchman1951 profile image60
            dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Intimate, you are very entitled to your opinion, and it is not unfair, but very miss informed, what is posted here is real historical research. You may wish counter from facts that dispute the info presented. would love to see the participation.

            1. dutchman1951 profile image60
              dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

              the links here are very telling, and you may wish to counter them with facts, not Hammas mis representations. Library of Congress, Georgetown Law, Univ. of Virgina polotical think Tank. Univ. of Columbia, and CIA white papers, from people on the ground there,  may also shed more light than opinion. Please keep posting it will be interesting to read.    smile

              here is a link to all of the History behind the Belfour Decloration, the history of a movement for a Zionist state started way before the League of Nations.

              http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p389_John.html

    22. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago

      The truth is beautiful. Isn't it, Dutch?

      1. dutchman1951 profile image60
        dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

        yes it is   smile

    23. dutchman1951 profile image60
      dutchman1951posted 6 years ago

      Here is a real research link on what was really behind the Balfur Agreement, a real history from late 1800's forward, facinating. The Zionist movement, and what realy happened. another eye opener I think.

      http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p389_John.html

      1. TMMason profile image63
        TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        I am on it. Thanks.

        "To seek to untangle fact from propaganda is a worthy study, for it increases understanding of how we got where we are and it should help people resist exploitation by powerful and destructive interests in the present and future, by exposing their working in the past."

        Exactly.

      2. TMMason profile image63
        TMMasonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        It is a shame that many on here won't give this a first look, never-mind a second. Close-minded Americans will be the death of this nation I am afraid.

        1. dutchman1951 profile image60
          dutchman1951posted 6 years agoin reply to this

          you are correct on that point. It will be our un-doing. To many now are taught to pass a state test and thats it. We are loosing sight of why we are at the point we are.

    24. Dame Scribe profile image61
      Dame Scribeposted 6 years ago

      lol wow, sorry I haven't been here. I really like the latest thing going on. A professor or former advisor? set up a 'Peace' page on FB to start 'discussion' between Israel and Palestine smile they are doing good too! awesome smile
      @ Dutch, I'm not sure what you're asking with writing a hub smile

     
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