Paul and Joseph Smith Jr. were false Prophets; hence their fate

1. 48

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   Hi friends
   
   Both Paul and Joseph Smith Jr. were false Prophets hence their fate that they got killed.
   
   Jesus was a truthful Messenger Prophet of the Creator- God Allah YHWH; and hence he was saved a cursed death on Cross.
   
   I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Muhammad was false, too.

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      Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I guess the Quran doesn't mention anything about martyrdom?...
      
      or is every Muslim who gets killed for his a religion a false prophet?

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2. 48

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   Hi friend Greek One
   
   Torah and Quran both mention that the Creator- God Allah YHWH so arranges the things that false prophets messengers always get killed. This is because they say that the Creator- God Allah YHWH has talked to them and given a message for them; while He has not talked to them or sent them. This punishment is specific for the claimants of Messengership or Prophet-hood, not for a lesser rank of people.
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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      Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Can you please tell me one of Paul's prophecies??

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      1. 48

         paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Hi friend
         
         If one somebody says that God has shown him a vision and appointed him for some mission; that is the same. It is wrong understood that Prophet only talks of future; past,present and future are all included in Prophet-hood or Messenger-ship.
         
         You may access the following link about Paul's claim on that:
         
         http://www.jcu.edu/Bible/PAUL/Life/Prop … postle.htm
         
         Thanks
         
         I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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            Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            1)  Your own link states in the first line that "book of Acts presents Paul as a prophet, but Paul claims that he is an apostle. History has upheld Paul's claim rather than that of Acts.”
            
            2) You still have not offered one of Paul's prophesy
            
            3) There were many prophets in the Old Testament.  Did none of them die?
            
            4) Unlike you mentioned in your previous post, Jesus DID die.  He was NOT saved the cursed death on Cross.  That’s how was able to come BACK to life
            
            5) And by the way ,can you find me anywhere in the NEWTestament where it says all prophets will be spared death?

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            1. 48

               paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Hi friend
               
               Torah is very clear on it; it makes no exception.
               
               Thanks
               
               I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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                  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Hi Friend
                  
                  Are you going to answer my points, or is your intention merely to continually post on subjects just to read your own words?
                  
                  I am not going to get into a debate as to whether Paul was or was not a prophet, because clearly he never claimed to be.  But even if he was...
                  
                  1) Can you tell me where it says that prophets will be sparred death? .. in the Old and New Testiment? 
                  
                  2) Why do you say that Jesus was sparred death as a prophet when in fact he did die?

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                  1. 48

                     paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Hi friend
                     
                     I don’t debate with anybody to win; I only discuss to ascertain TRUTH; you are free to hold your own opinion, I don’t mind.
                     
                     1.    Torah is very clear on killing of the false Prophets Messengers; therefore, only those who survived killing were the Truthful ones.
                     
                     2.    I started a separate thread on the topic Jesus did not die on the cross; if you feel convenient we may discuss it there.
                     
                     Thanks
                     
                     I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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                        Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        I am not debating you, i simply would like your answers.  I am assuming that you posted this forum post to have a discussion?
                        
                        1) You say that the Torah was clear on the killing of false Prophets, so I would like to know which of the true prophets did NOT die in your opinion?
                        
                        2) You were the one who brought up Jesus and said he was a Prophet.  You say that Jesus never died at all?  In your version of history, did he just walk to his tomb and lie down there for a couple of hours?
                        
                        Please share your knowledge so that we may all learn the truth through friendly dialogue

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                           Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           LOL why are you even bothering?

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                              Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              slow day at work...
                              
                              and I am kinda hoping he will click on one of my hubs and become a fan... trying to get a hubscore over 95.. God willing lol

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                                 Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Hah, well that makes sense.  Carry on then.

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                           2. 48

                              paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Hi friend
                              
                              Your are also welcome to discuss; don't be shy; no compulsion however.
                              
                              Thanks
                              
                              I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

                              replyreport
                              1. 59

                                 Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 LOL
                                 
                                 Discuss? Oh - you mean share the TRUTH that there is no Allah?
                                 
                                 In that case - please discuss. I am not here to win - just to share the TRUTH. NO ALLAH.
                                 
                                 Mohamed - sex with small children - died as predicted by me. All who have sex with children will die - as did Mohamed. For his crimes against the TRUTH. No Allah. None. No. Zip. Nada. A lie.
                                 
                                 Thank you friend.
                                 
                                 No winning here. Simple truth. Peaceful, truthful atheist here.

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                        2. 48

                           paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Hi friend
                           
                           1.    No truthful Messenger Prophet of the Creator- God Allah YHWH could be killed, from Adam to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, in our own times.
                           
                           2.    Jesus did not die on the cross; as that would make him a false Prophet Messenger. He escaped a cursed death on the Cross. He died later a very peaceful and natural death in India.
                           
                           My pleasure to discuss.
                           
                           Thanks
                           
                           I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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                           1. 64

                              Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              1)  Well, we clearly don't agree on the whole Jesus thing...
                              so clearly we disagree as to whether Prophets can be killed or not
                              
                              2)  Please tell me from what illnesses are Prophets allowed to be die from?  Is it only murder they are exempt from?  Is Cancer OK? 
                              
                              3) If Prophets can not be killed, then why does the Quran say that they were? 
                              
                              Qur’an 2:61—“And humiliation and wretchedness were stamped upon them and they were visited with wrath from Allah. That was because they disbelieved in Allah’s revelations and slew the prophets wrongfully. That was for their disobedience and transgression.”
                              
                              Qur’an 3:112 Allah and a rope from men. They have incurred anger from their Lord, and wretchedness is laid upon them. That is because they used to disbelieve the revelations of Allah, and slew the prophets wrongfully. That is because they were rebellious and used to transgress.
                              
                              Quar'an 5:70 We have taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we sent to them messengers. Whenever a messenger went to them with anything they disliked, some of them they rejected, and some they killed.
                              
                              Quar'an 2:87 (Asad) For, indeed, We vouchsafed unto Moses the divine writ and caused apostle after apostle to follow him; [70] and We vouchsafed unto Jesus, the son of Mary, all evidence of the truth, and strengthened him with holy inspiration. [71] [Yet] is it not so that every time an apostle came unto you with something that was not to your liking, you gloried in your arrogance, and to some of them you gave the lie, while others you would slay?
                              
                              There seems to be a whole lot of Prophet killing mentioned in the Qur'an, doesn't there?  Are you SURE you read it??

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                              Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              That is your opinion, I do not agree. No compulsion.

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      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Who exactly are those people?

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3. 48

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   Hi friends
   
   I feel that my Atheist friends here think that I want to win from them. No; I don't discuss for winning; I discuss for understanding the TRUTH. If we reach at TRUTH by positive discussion; we all human beings win; otherwise we all lose,that is my thinking and approach.
   
   I respect you all
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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   1. 59

      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You have rejected the truth. You therefore have nothing to discuss.

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4. 48

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   Greek One wrote:
   
   There seems to be a whole lot of Prophet killing mentioned in the Qur'an, doesn't there?  Are you SURE you read it??
   
   Paarsurrey says:
   
   They intended to kill the prophets; that is mentioned as a charge-sheet for them.
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

   replyreport
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      Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Intended?  Charge sheet?  hahahaha  ur kidding, right?   You are re-writing the Qu'ran and just twisting it's words so as to try to prove a point. 
      
      First you came up with your own definition what a 'prophet' is, and now you are trying to twist around the Qu'ran?  I remind you again that...
      
      Qur’an 2:61 says "They DISBELIEVED in Allah's revelations and SLEW the prophets wrongfully..." It does NOT say that the 'INTENDED' to kill them .”
      
      3:112 says "...That is because they USED TO disbelieve the revelations of Allah, AND SLEW THE PROPHETS wrongfully..." again, it says not INTENDED to kill them but that they "USED TO disbelieve" and that they "SLEW THEM" (past tense).
      
      5:70 says Whenever a messenger WENT to them with anything they disliked, some of them they rejected and SOME OF THEY KILLED.
      
      and finally, Quar'an 2:87 ....is it not so that every time an apostle CAME unto you with something that was not to your liking, you gloried in your arrogance, and to some of them you gave the lie, while OTHERS YOU WOULD SLAY?
      
      Above are 4 instances taken directly from the Qu'ran clearly mention that prophets were murdered. 
      
      You have yet to give even one example where it says that Prophets would be spared death in any religious text. 
      
      Clearly you don't have the evidence to support your forum topic, in which case you should do a bit of research before you post, or you have no desire the seek the truth.   
      
      In your attempt to prove the 'falseness'of other religions, you instead mutilate the words of the Qu'ran.
      
      You either have not read the Qu'ran, or you are a heretic.  Which is it?

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5. 48

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   Greek One wrote:
   
   You have yet to give even one example where it says that Prophets would be spared death in any religious text.
   
   Paarsurrey says:
   As asked by you I quote from Quran:
   
   [40:51] They will say: ‘Did not your Messengers come to you with manifest Signs?’ They will say: ‘Yea.’ The Keepers will say, ‘Then pray on.’ But the prayer of disbelievers is of no avail.
   [40:52] Most surely We help Our Messengers and those who believe, both in the present life and on the day when the witnesses will stand forth,
   
   http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=46
   
   [4:158] And their saying, ‘We did kill the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah;’ whereas they slew him not, nor crucified him, but he was made to appear to them like one crucified; and those who differ therein are certainly in a state of doubt about it; they have no definite knowledge thereof, but only follow a conjecture; and they did not convert this conjecture into a certainty;
   
   http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … ;verse=153
   
   Bible also support my view if read intently.
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

   replyreport
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      Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      THAT'S the best you can come up with?  THAT's what you based this forum topic on??
      
      Your first reference just says that Messengers will be 'helped'... this could be helped in their mission, helped throughout their lives, helped in many ways.  In other words that God will help those who will believe in Him. It does NOT say that they will be saved from hardships along the way, let alone from dying from a painful illness or injury, or from being killed.
      
      Note too that your quote also mentions "and those who believe" in addition to "Messengers".  Are you telling me that in all history, in all the wars, no believer has ever been killed??  What about martyrs?  Were they not believers?  If so, why were they killed??
      
      Your second reference does not support your opinion that Prophets will not be murdered, it just states the Qu'ran's opinion that one particular special Prophet was not murdered.   There is a big jump from saying that just because one Prophet was not murdered, that all Prophets would be saved from such a fate.
      
      How can you take these two references and claim that the Qu'ran says that no single prophet can ever be murdered, especially when the 4 quotes I gave you clearly state that they have been??  You are not reading the Qu'ran intently, you are mis-reading it beyond any point of logic or in any way that is justified by faith
      
      Clearly, if you are seeking the truth like you say, going by what is clearly written in the Qu'ran, just because someone has been murdered, it does not mean that they were not a prophet.  In fact, as the Qu'ran clearly says that Prophets were murdered, it can be argued that Muslims who claim otherwise, are heretics.
      
      I am glad that I can help you find the truth, and hope that you, as a Muslim, will focus a little bit more on the Qu'ran, and a little less on posting ridiculous forum posts that make you look both uninformed and blasphemous

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6. 48

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   Hi friend Greek One
   
   Do you believe in Joseph Smith Jr., as false Prophet Messenger?
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

   replyreport
7. 48

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   Hi friend Greek One
   
   Do you believe in Joseph Smith Jr., as false Prophet Messenger?
   
   This is just for information; then we will revert to our topic unders discussion. No embarrassment intended; no compulsion whatsoever.
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

   replyreport
8. 48

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   Hi friends
   
   Our friend Greek One has not responded to my simple question.
   
   Torah is very clear on the fate of the false Messengers Prophets; they were to be killed and the truthful Messengers Prophets could not be killed.
   
   If it is not a truthful teaching; then what was the purpose of this Commandment in Torah; and why so much emphasis was put on it? Any wise men could tell us.
   
   Paul, Bab and Joseph Smith Jr., were false prophets and hence they had a similiar fate; got killed.
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

   replyreport
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      Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      why do you think i would take the time to answer your questions when you don't chose to answer mine or respond to the evidence I gave you from the Qu'ran?
      
      If you don't want a true discussion andto find the truth.. if you only want to keep posting topics over and over again making yourself look foolish, with no intent to have a real discussion, then go ahead.. you don't me or anyone else for that

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9. 48

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   Paul and Joseph Smith Jr. were false Prophets; hence their fate

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   1. 59

      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Stir the pot, repeat and stir.

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10. 48

    paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

    Hi friends
    
    I think everybody has now understood that Paul,Baab Bahai and Jospeh Smith Jr., were false Prophets and hence they were killed in terms of the Torah.
    
    Thanks
    
    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    replyreport
11. 65

    aka-djposted 14 years ago

    Just like the dead prophets, you should kill this thread too.
    Nobody is interested in it.
    Or do you wish to resurrect the prophets like this thread???

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       Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       agreed

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12. 48

    paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

    Hi friends
    
    OT-Bible and Quran both say that the false Messengers Prophets get killed; I quoted the verses from OT-Bible; here is from Quran:
    
    [69:41] That it is surely the word brought by a noble Messenger;
    [69:42] And it is not the word of a poet; little is it that you believe!
    [69:43] Nor is it the word of a soothsayer; little is it that you heed!
    [69:44] It is a revelation from the Lord of the worlds.
    [69:45] And if he had forged and attributed any sayings to Us,
    [69:46] We would surely have seized him by the right hand,
    [69:47] And then surely We would have severed his life-artery,
    [69:48] And not one of you could have held Us off from him.
    
    http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=40
    
    So it is for sure right.
    
    Thanks
    
    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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       Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       boy, that is sure reaching...
       
       but it still doesn't prove any of your points at all.
       
       You can do better than that my friend, keep looking

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          paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Hi freind Greek One
          
          If you have something good with you please go ahead and don't hold it; I am a good listener.
          
          Thanks
          
          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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