I just got into a debate with a hub author who published a maligning article about the town I came from. He denied some of my comments as they were antithetical to his ideology of the area and actually refuted some of the thoughts of it.
Should this be allowed? It's basically the same as suppressing evidence.
Yes it should be allowed, the hubber has the rights over his hub and the comments beneath it. In my opinion it's not a good policy though which is why all my hubs have a stated no censorship policy, I think that's best.
This is another instance of just because you can do something does not make it right.
It is the suppression of free speech. Now since the poster has relented and let my comments show but I am certain it would not have occurred had I not pointed it out publicly here.
We're missing the point. The person who disagrees with JSChams, he calls a liberal. Why not say, "If someone diasgrees with me, is it really OK for them to deliete my comment?" Any hubber can do what they want. Myself, I love the disagreement. It teaches me that I'm not in charge and that other people see things differently. I don't get offened whem I don't get published. I just say to myself, I'm too emotionallly invested in the whole thing and gotta move on. But my home town, L.A., There's nothing anyone is going to agree on with that one! But I do understand JSChams if he's from a small town an someone spoke ill of it--especially when it's a lie.
Each of us has his/her own standards/threshholds when it comes to comments on our own hubs. When I encounter an opposing view (as has occurred) I try to look at it objectively. Operative word in that sentence beign "try."
Is what this commenter says adding valuable but different perspective on "my" subject? Most times, yes. I really do try to think of the bigger picture and who might read the comment thread later on.
I don't look at my hubs as blog posts, though. Typically don't engage in lengthy debates with people there. If they feel that strongly about the topic they can go write their own hub!!
The operative word is "try." Oh, do I hear you....it's work sometimes to figure out where a post is going. People express themselves so differently, and most hubbers do not think like I do ... I mean, I don't even konw if I think like I do.
Strongly concur! I shall never tolerate personal attacks regarding my hubs. If I detect this, I simply DELETE...............
I agree with you. As a liberal and a newbie may I affirm that no one has been denied on my meager contributions to the Hub Page world. There were certainly a response or two that were not in lock step with my opines. Point being. Generalizing folk's behavior is, as politely as I can say it, unfortunate.
You are the one who lives in the town. People may disagree with your premise; however, it is YOURS and you are entitled to impart your sypnosis and state how you feel about the town you live in. Yes, there are some haters out there but that is par for the course! Enough said and let's move on!
that is a stupid thing to do just like the conservatives who deny my comments on their hubs because i disagree with them it doesn't make any sense to me i welcome disagreeing comments on my hubs even more than agreeing ones.
it hasn't happened to me so far, i just been called stupid so far.
Liberals who subscribe to the Political Correctness ideology, are quite pro-cencorship.
It's happened to me with conservatives. I haven't denied any comments yet though. Feel free to test it :p. I'm very much in favor of open discussion. I would only do so if the commentator was cussing at SOMEONE ELSE (not me), or writing childish things, like "you are a stupid poopy face."
Whoever denied you, imo, was wrong to do so.
It was a mistake...the person was moderating their questions... His comments showed up...
I've been denied twice on conservative hubs. I'm hesitant to even comment sometimes because I don't want to waste my time formulating a response that isn't even going to be acknowledged.
Since I'm liberal, it makes sense liberals wouldn't deny my comments. There is one conservative I comment on a regular basis though, and he doesn't deny me, but I don't know how representative he is.
It is not only liberals who do that. It is up to the hub author what they want to do or not. I don't deny difference of opinion but others do; it also depends on how it is worded too. No one wants to be attacked on their own hub. Write your own hub about it if you disagree so strongly.
Pretty much if I show something that refutes or otherwise reverses or changes the image of what your hub says and its true and you deny it you are being a coward.
It's also possible that they don't want their hub to end up with never ending arguments as they do on the forum...no one changes their mind and everyone thinks whatever they say is earth shattering and important.
But like I and others have said, it's not just one political ideology that does this.
The Author reserves the right to do whatever they want with their material(hub, blogs or website).
You could say they are exercising their freedom of speech or expression
It's their individual right to deny comments, regardless of why they do it. And, you don't reserve any right to prevent them from doing it.
Never said I wanted to prevent them from doing it. I am just tired of people who claim to want freedom but will slap down an opinion they don't like in the name of free speech.
Well, then out the hubber you're talking about it and be done. Damn man, make a big deal when someone shows you hypocrisy...if that's the way you're going to be about it, then you're going to be a very angry person inside.
Just think about how much you're doing to yourself by letting it get to you without you actually doing something good with the energy you're building up.
Coming to the forums to complain about it is a start because you can voice freely about your experience, but you're not mentioning who these people are.
Do you think you will help promote the person by outing them? Maybe, maybe not.
But, do just complain isn't healthy.
Yeah JS, I think Cags is right.
Wayne Brown just deleted my post where I actually complimented him in his "Shades Of Tyranny" Hub—how ironic is that? He spouts about liberty in words and gets tyrannical in action! I just laughed—as you should!
So maybe your thread convinced him to change his mind, or are you sure he had denied it or not gotten around to moderating it?
The latter seems to be more likely what happened. I checked the comments and there's an entire conversation on that hub between the author and JSChams.
Well I would be inclined to agree except that he made a number of comments before finally approving.
Yet another meaningless statement. Thank you for the laughs.
After I submitted the posts about Oak Ridge he made another of another comments toward me which at the very least made me to believe he was not inclined to approve my messages.
Be careful....I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken.
Should know you by now? And what exactly do you think it is that I should know. I know what I have learned by reading your posts and paying attention to your actions. But, if you think I'm going to share what I learned, then you've been mistaken again.
What I learned isn't for you to know about, but is for me to learn from. But, I do appreciate the interaction.
You are experienced in my style to this point. There......better now.
I see. I thought you were talking about you as an individual, and not so much about your posts.
However this sort of occurrence happens all the time. There are lots of comments made in the news, in society, so forth that I don't agree with but they are out there and at least in the US that individuals right to say so is guaranteed.
I allow all comments on my hubs as a courtesy to someone who took the time to read my hub whether they agree with it or not.
What's wrong with that?
I'm pretty sure it happens to you a lot.
I'm pretty positive that would be true without a doubt.
I will refuse stupidity in motion on my hubs. I don't approve of people telling me over and over, how much of an idiot I am. It detracts from my hub's content. I'm also not going to deal with people who are simple-minded, closed-minded, narrow-minded or just dumb. There are a lot of these people in the world, however, it's my duty to eliminate the nonsense. My hubs are not nonsense.
I didn't say there was anything wrong with it.
So, apparently you're insinuating that what I write is "gag" worthy. Good to know.
You do a good job of analysis. Don't always agree but hard to fault the process.
See what happened was I blew a fuse at a guy who wrote a hub and then apparently took some time to decide whether he would approve my comments.
Now what blew my fuse was the hub involved someone I personally know from my hometown. The idea my comments were superfluous just didn't sit right.
Hey Gmwilliams, I wasn't surprised and it doesn't hurt.
Now I agree with you that I don't like name calling on my hub comments but that doesn't happen inmine. Oh there are some who really want to debate...but that's probably why a lot of my activity is on these forums where it is a better place for that.
Good for you.
Yeah, I'm not doubting that. Most of my hubs, especially the main topics I cover are not actually open for debate, but were written to point out specific things. Some of the other hubs I have written are definitely not open to debate either, because there's nothing to debate to start off with.
That and I don't make all the fabulous money they claim you will make from writing hubs but that's likely because I don't spend all day writing recipe and home repair hubs.
*Shrugs* I don't really write anything too terribly controversial but I reserve the right to delete any comment I want for any reason I'd like. I am not the United States Government and I don't have any obligation to allow free speech on anything I own.
That's like coming into my living room and demanding that I let you say what you want. If I'm feeling nice and you want to be polite then I might let you. If not then I'd remove you from my house. Rights are granted by the government not by individuals. I personally don't have to let anyone say anything to me.
That's not in the public and I would respect your home more than that.
You post on these forums or hubs.....that ain't your home and you just put yourself out for display....
Rights are not granted by anyone or anything. Rights are only recognized by government and dismissed by the individual's inability to see past ego.
Poor word choice on my part And there's a difference between ego and not dealing with drama. I've only deleted a few comments that were spammy... like I said I don't write anything too terribly controversial. I allowed a few on one article that even disagreed with me. However if the writer of those comments would have been an ass about disagreeing with me I would have deleted it. Not because of ego... I don't mind being told I'm wrong... but because I don't suffer fools gladly or otherwise.
Yes, I know Melissa. What you write about wasn't what my post regarded.
Good for you. I'm pretty sure a lot of people have taken that same road, I know I'm one of them. I just don't allow stupidity in motion on my hubs, just like I don't allow conversations between other hubbers, which is why I don't have a whole lot of comments on all my hubs. I find it a complete destruction of the content, if the comment sections doesn't justify the content. If the comments detract from the article, such as talking about something which isn't in the hub, then the comment can hurt more than help.
Or why so-called free thinkers like Melissa or Josak denounce the person they disagree with to the hierarchy allowing the ban process to be launched?
I'm surprised at you Maxoxam, you must have encountered many a shrill in these forums who are given oxygen and allowed to puke poison because people bother to argue with them, when they probably should be ignored. if they want to continue with irrational arguments, they should publish a hub of their own. Let them vent, but on their own hubs.
So it's our fault you got banned? Nice.
Liberalism is a secular religion. The adherents of it are motivated by the positive thoughts that are evoked by believing in an abstract ideal of a wonderful world.
To understand it, forget about what their arguments are. Compare them to other religious adherents from all other faiths--Islam and Christianity mainly.
Then you will understand why it doesn't matter what you tell them. They have an abstract ideal that must be upheld or else they will lose their faith. Similarly there are things that religious people believe obstinately. For them to not believe those things who compromise their entire faith.
Liberals could lose their whole ideological foundation if you suggest to them that some things are not changeable through social engineering.
Religious folks could lose their ideological foundation if you suggest to them that life is not predetermined.
So it does not matter if you have a real argument. You could even have scientific proof. But liberals will have to reject their entire faith in a changeable humanity in order to listen to anything you have to say.
As was proven, the OP made a mistake. Maybe you should read the whole thread.
Or someone might say that social engineering is not a liberal but a conservative mindset. The -isms of the world fit all people. Just the flavor is different. If you don't believe Conservatives are capable of attempts at social engineering, check out the current laws being passed by GOP driven state legislatures. Hope to be hearing from ya.
I'm sure a lot of people call themselves conservatives nowadays. In fact, a lot of ex-Marxists started calling themselves conservatives (neocons)--like David Horowitz.
But I never defended conservatism. I just described the mindset of post-WWII liberals.
It's the liberal way, JS. They state their opinion. You state your disagreement. They start screaming and crying like small children. It's really as simple as that. I've had it done to me as well.
And you say this why? Are you looking for a discussion on a particular topic?
Or are you attempting to get people to read your hubs?
Merely responding to what I believe to be an unfortunate generalization. My brand of liberalism does not do whining. As to the other, self promotion is not allowed. I won't break the rule.
Yes, it's a sweeping generalization of a specific group of people. Which was a point already made earlier I think.
Interesting you identify with liberalism, yet claim not whining. However, both side are guilty of it. On an individual level you might not whine, but I'm doubt it.
I'm neither by the way- not conservative or independent or liberal. I don't identify completely with any of them, but do Identify with all of them in specific aspects.
Can't help your doubt. You'll have to discover the truth of that at your own speed. Made earlier or later is irrelevant. I had not had the opportunity to enlighten the author that baseless generalization does not have to endured by one who considers himself one of the group being defamed. I suspect he survived the moment.
Sure you can. All is learned through interaction.
I know. My pace is my pace and truth will always be truth. The two of us usually collide all the time, especially over the last 10+ years.
Actually it's quite relevant. Since it was established earlier, it means there would be no reason to bring it up again.
Defamed? And where did you manage to get the idea JSChams was referencing being defamed.
Defamation is not censorship nor is Censorship defamation.
His original post for this thread was about a liberal who denied comments. JSChams said that the person didn't want the facts which he had about the hub written.
I'm sure he did.
Let me help. my first post was to the submitter right above my post who had mentioned how all liberals were whiners.
two things here, my comment was to that immediate submitter LH not the author of the question. Therefore, where the whiner comment occurred before was irrelevant because my reply was directed to the immediate post above my reply.
He was not content with the whine slur but thought it necessary to add the screaming and crying like small children slam as well. I was just looking through the replies and happened to see his remarks, took a moment to let him know that his perception of liberals might be skewered. Then you took an interest and here we are.
Actually, I agree with the author of the question which was my very first reply. Responding to a comment, if warranted, should be a part of the Hub and as necessary as posting the Hub. That's how such things turn into discussion, debates, and moments of interest.
jmicchael1a wrote: "I had not had the opportunity to enlighten the author that baseless generalization does not have to endured by one who considers himself one of the group being defamed.
As a liberal, I have no doubt any attempt on your part to "enlighten' me would be met with nothing but contempt. In other words, save it for someone who cares about the opinion of a liberal. You'll not find that here.
As for the term "whiner", I did not use it. I stated "They start screaming and crying like small children." Best I can tell, you were the one who introduced "whiner" into the conversation. Since it's the perfect word to describe most liberals, if you wish describe them as such, feel free. I will admit "whiner" is short, sweet, and accurate.
"I suspect he survived the moment.
Yes, I "survived" the moment and I'm sure I'll do the same for many, many more.
You have a good day, jmicchael1a.
When I do engage a Conservative, which is on a daily basis. I respond to the agenda driven drivel that seems to be the basis for Conservative discourse with facts, figures and research.
My Conservative friend never fails to not confuse his opinions with anything resembling facts or the truth.
Your, "best I can tell..." statement assures me any exchanges with you, LH, will be all too similar. I defined your comment with the use of the word whiner to shorten my post and to cover the essence of your comment. As your response illustrated, I did not miss the mark.
I was perusing the comment section when I spied your rant. My only comment up to that moment had been my agreement with the author of the question. I believe that any comment to an opinion based Hub that is relevant to the subject should be allowed. Opinions, everybody has one. Meaningful debate generally has two sides and the HUB to which he responded was an opinion.
My thoughts are opinion pieces are fair game. You know the heat in the kitchen type of thing.
Well, thanks for the moment. I’m pleased you were able to respond to my observations. My wish is not to miss an opportunity to enlighten. How ever unfertile the ground is to the seeds of my discourse.
When I made my original post to JS of: "It's the liberal way, JS. They state their opinion. You state your disagreement. They start screaming and crying like small children. It's really as simple as that. I've had it done to me as well. I was speaking to what he'd written to him.
Then you post: "You need to try me on for size."
Really? You immediately sound combative then want a "meaningful debate". Let me put it to you this way, JM, I couldn't give less than an aviated coitis in a rotating pastry if you disliked my sweeping generalization of the typical liberal behavior.
You may very well be a more level-headed liberal than most, a rarity at best, but with a comment like "You need to try me on for size.", you certain didn't come across that way.
Your chance for "meaningful debate" was shot to hell with your first post to me. The fertile ground you sought for "meaningful debate" was there, JM, you just lost the chance to bear fruit due to your typical liberal, combative attitude right out of the box.
My, My. Doesn't take much to make you testy, does it?
Thanks for making my point.
I suppose letting you fly off the handle without a proper call to cease and desist is how you believe "grown ups" act.
Airplanes, birds, and butterflies fly in my world. That won't.
Blown chance? Okay, I don't have a problem with that.
Best wishes and take care..
"My, My. Doesn't take much to make you testy, does it?
Thanks for making my point."
No testiness here, JM. I'm in a great mood, even for a Monday. I just don't suffer fools or liberals very well, especially those that are combative right out of the gate.
Oh, I think you do. I mean you do have Conservative friends. right?
No, that would be the liberal friends and family or liberal hubbers who are combative and don't know when to stop, JM.
I haven't used the word combative once and I said
Best wishes and take care
3 comments ago.
However, be sure to get your last word in. It seems to be important to you. Or don't..
This is mine. Adios
Our hubs are our work. We have full right to accept or deny any comment for any reason. We owe nobody nothing. Period. End of story. Free speech? LOL. Come on.
If you want to debate the pros and cons of your hometown, write your own hub about it and see what kinds of traffic/comments you get. That is your right!
BTW, what makes you think the hubber's political persuasion is the reason s/he denied your comments? Not having read either the hub or your comments I can only speculate here, based on the topic. Which is not politics, but your town.
Is it possible they were worded in an antagonistic or supercillious way that the hubber perhaps found objectionable?
"BTW, what makes you think the hubber's political persuasion is the reason s/he denied your comments?"
The only time my comments have been "denied" is when commenting on politics or religion, MM, and it was because I disagreed with the hub.
I've only denied one post in almost two years because it was laced with profanity and I wouldn't want someone like yourself to have read such things.
It is up to the hub owner. No one has a right to push off topic or unwanted content on people who do not want to read it and who do not want it infecting their work.
I would say anyone with a strong political ideology will deny a comment that is against his/her beliefs. That's nature.
WOW!! There sure are a lot of opinions. Don't comment if you're going to disagree too strongly. Do not deny my comment just because I disagree. It's my Hub and I'll allow only the comments that I want. I would allow all with whom I agree or may lukewarmly disagree. Write your own damn Hub. I'm taking my Hub and keeping it all to myself.
This is a discussion Website, right? I expect that a strong position taken by any of you could find the individual who has the audacity to not completely and utterly agree with you.
Then the person might have the nerve to communicate on your HUB, in your COMMENTS that contrarian opinion. The unmitigated gall of this individual to assume his opinion had higher value then yours. Consider all the time you took to craft the message that was so reasonable and sound of logic. What is wrong with this thorn in your literary caboose?
May I propose this solution? Embrace and engage the fool. Let your processes of logic create the words that will provide the undeniable wisdom and strength of your position.
Then wait for the response. You should hope that there would be one. When it comes, then it is game on.
A discussion will begin. Others will join. There will be sides taken and talking points will emerge. Next thing you know the comment section is longer than the Hub itself. Within Google's adsense analyticals, you are knocking it out of the park.
After all folks, it is a discussion site.
*Shrugs* Actually it has nothing to do with whether you want freedom of speech or your comment accepted or denied. Hubpages put the ability to approve or deny comments. So, in reality it's up to hubpages and what ever author decides to press deny.
I use to have this same problem in video games. I'd be playing a first person shooter and the other team would kill our team. Then we'd get reset to the spawn point; which the other team would then invade, spawn camp us, and kill us OVER and OVER again. I use to always complain about it. Then a friend of mine finally got pissed and said damn man, grow-up, you can't tell other people how to play the game.
So, yeah, I grew-up and learned I can't control other people. Part of being an adult I guess. =-P
HubPages makes no decision on which comments are accepted. That falls completely on the author.
Yes, but hubpages put the tab there for people to use. So it is hubpages decision to have the option available.
Technically, HubPages included a comment capsule in their platform for writing articles. The author has the power to remove that capsule and/or adjust it's settings.
It's called giving the writers what they want and making HubPages attractive. The sole discretion remains with the author, as does the rights to the content on the page.
I consider myself a moderate, but you'd probably label me a liberal. I'm certainly not a conservative. And I've never limited comments to any of my hubs. I've recommended commenters take their argument to a forum before, but I didn't delete anyone's opinion.
I'm sure this is a jerk their chain and see who comes out of the woodwork question, but I decided to play anyway. Have fun.
I never really check...I know that I post things whether they agree or not because I want to see the discussion. I have learned the hard way that when labels and name-calling starts, the writer is the one who pays by getting their hub unpublished. I recently had to delete every comment on a hub to get it republished simply because a couple of people had a heated exchange. There is nothing gained in name-calling or baseless claims in a conversation. Honestly, I think that is the game some folks play on here...just throwing out bait to see how upset they can make others...not the purpose of being here at all. WB
As if only liberals are guilty of this, haha!
I got into a brief discussion with an author on his hub about the existence of God. It was brief because out of the blue and without warning he blocked my last comment, even though it was in the same vein as the previous 2 or 3.
To me that says he just can't defend his position and/or he's not very bright.
I find it laughable to hear these accusations and descriptions of hub posts that are so floridly disingenuous and inaccurate.
What is being described here as "name-calling" is, in fact, most often an accurate description of a pattern of behavior that indeed should be called into question. And to label overt bigotry and bias (and btw, I don't equate bigotry with racism) as "sweeping generalizations" is just a convenient excuse for remaining intransigent, petty, and resentful in one's point of view.
It's fine of course and one's prerogative to be hasty and insulting, but please don't label it as wanting to have a meaningful debate after not recognizing one's own extremist and reactionary remarks that were initially meant to provoke outrage in others with a different point of view. The feigned innocence and hypocrisy here is worthy of a Molière comedy.
Furthermore, if someone makes an overtly jaundiced and intolerant remark, in a serious tone, that is a false or a slanderous talking point (which is, more often than not, just more propaganda from Fox News, Rush Limbaugh or the Free Republic), they should be rebutted or repudiated for that kind of conduct on a public forum. I also note that their hubs remain censored with posting restrictions, unlike open forums, like this one, where posters' freedoms are not curtailed or remarks deleted.
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