U.S. Plans to Murder American Citizens

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  1. lone77star profile image76
    lone77starposted 11 years ago

    There have been numerous plans in American history for the government to murder American citizens for political gain.

    I seriously doubt that the Operation Northwoods document is the only tangible, direct evidence of such evil. That document lay hidden and classified for 35 years before it was brought into the public eye. Thank goodness General Limnitzer's order to have such documents destroyed were ineffective.

    Operation Northwoods

    In 1963, the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the Pentagon (General Lyman L. Lemnitzer) wrote up a proposal to murder American citizens, attack their own soldiers, hijack airplanes and crash them, and more, all to provoke public sentiment against Cuba. This is a classic "false flag" operation. A nation flies the flag of an enemy they want to attack, perpetrate all manner of evil, and then blame it on that other country. Thankfully, Operation Northwoods was not approved by the Kennedy White House.

    Other Plans

    Have there been other such plans?

    Some historians suspect that the USS Maine disaster in Havana harbor was caused by the US military in order to provoke war with Spain. And boy, did it! America gained Puerto Rico and the Philippines and Spain effectively lost its empire.

    In 1967, during the Six Days War in the Middle East, the USS Liberty was dispatched to the Eastern Med to snoop on the war. It was a clear day, their American flag was very visible, and yet Israel repeatedly attacked the USS Liberty and nearly sank her, killing many of its sailors. The Israelis were also jamming their radio signals so initially the Liberty crew couldn't call for help.

    Finally, they were able to string up a makeshift antenna. Perhaps the Israelis thought they no longer needed to jam the signals (and how did they get the USS Fleet frequency?). They radioed the Fleet in the Med and planes were scrambled to help protect them. But the President (Johnson) ordered them back. In fact, he told the Admiral of the Fleet that he wanted that damn ship sunk and to recall the birds.

    Why would President Johnson want his own ship sunk by an ally? Blame it on Egypt and coax Congress into that 6 Day War for a more prolonged event.

    Even then, American corporations would've liked nothing more than to have had a toe-hold in the Middle East. And after all this time, they finally have their excuse for a lucrative presence.

    September 11, 2001

    Operation 9/11 may well be another such government act of murder. How could our government perpetrate anything like this? Easy! They have the means (military, intelligence, money), the motive (Iraq, Afghanistan, unending and very lucrative War on Terror, and an end to Constitutional liberties so that Corporations can take over), and Opportunity (a nice group of protected patsies to blame it all on. Remember that Osama Bin Laden denied having anything to do with 9/11. Personally, I think he would've loved the credit, if he had done it.).

    Was it just a coincidence that George HW Bush gave his infamous "New World Order" speech on September 11, 1990 -- exactly 11 years before 9/11? Is it such a coincidence that 9/11 gives the New World Order fans many of the powers they craved? Was it any coincidence that box office hit, "Matrix," had the expiration date of Neo's passport as September 11, 2001 (for that is when America's "passport" of liberty expired with the unPatriot Act)? These guys (the super elite) seem to love their symbolism. Like the symbols of the Bohemian Grove with presidents and industry leaders dressing up in hoods and robes like the KKK and performing mock sacrifice of humans. Truth really is stranger than fiction.

    The plan for a New American Century, created and published September, 2000, talks of hawkish plans of military adventure and domination in the Middle East which would prove slow to accomplish unless there were some new Pearl Harbor to facilitate their plans. That new Pearl Harbor happened exactly one year later. Many of the ones who worked on that plan became White House insiders during the next administration, right when 9/11 happened.

    Beyond coincidence, let's look at a few facts.

    Scientists, engineers and architects have proven that all 3 World Trade Center buildings which collapsed on 9/11 were brought down by controlled demolition (http://www.AE911Truth.org). It takes weeks to prepare each building for such a demolition and it is highly unlikely that Al Qaeda would've had unfettered access to 3 such secure buildings in the months before 9/11. In fact, the CIA had offices in WTC7. And some of the Bush family were in charge of security for WTC. This spells either nightmarish incompetence or complicity.

    Perhaps the most telling fact about the controlled demolition of the 3 WTC buildings is that of the tons of iron microspheres found in the concrete dust. You can't aerosolize iron like that without extreme heat and explosive force. Such iron droplets are a common byproduct of thermite cutter charges in steel frame building demolition.

    I find it amazing that people still do not accept the evidence. Normalcy bias is that strong a force. One guy had the gall to suggest that it couldn't have been a controlled demolition because no one has yet confessed to planting the explosives -- as if conspiracies never happen. They happened in Nazi Germany -- the burning of the Reichstag and blaming it on Communists. The truth didn't come out until 12 years later, at the end of WW2, long after it was too late to mean anything.


    Obama already has his "kill list" which includes American citizens (no habeas corpus and no due process). The NDAA's indefinite detention clauses for American citizens make a mockery of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. We may as well shred the precious document on national TV and change the name of the country to Gulag Amerika, Inc.

    Foreign wars require troops. The ironic thing is that 9/11 was a hoax to make it possible for Corporations to make lots of money -- taking over the oil fields of Iraq, taking over the prized oil pipeline right-of-way in Afghanistan, and giving all of those lucrative contracts to the military industrial complex for the delightfully never-ending War on Terror. But what if the terrorists were sitting in Wall Street and the White House? All of our young men and women dying for Corporate greed is not my idea of America.

    Someone spent a lot of money to create the Georgia Guidestones. Some of what is written upon those massive stones sounds hauntingly like the desires of the New World Order. One of their goals is the reduction of the world population to a more manageable 500 million. That's more than 6 BILLION dead. Kind of takes my breath away.

    We can wait like the Germans did in the 1930s. The German Jews let Normalcy Bias get the best of them. "Oh, it'll blow over. Hitler won't last." True, he didn't, but neither did so many Jews who died in the concentration camps and their ovens. We can wait, but should we?


    If we truly have an oligarchic hegemony behind the scenes pulling the strings of politicians, news media, entertainment media, educational system and the like, then what would you suggest we do to reclaim the liberties for which America once stood?

    Personally, I don't think violence is the best way. I prefer the peaceful civil disobedience of Gandhi.

    This affects not only Americans, but the entire world. Everyone's input is desired.

    1. profile image0
      Sooner28posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It's scary when you start digging isn't it?

      1. lone77star profile image76
        lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Yes, @Sooner28, it can be scary, but I think it would be far scarier to live in denial and finally wake up after tyranny has set in.

        Imagine figuring things out in 1933 Germany versus figuring them out in 1940 Germany. Big difference. Some Germans went to UK and America to escape what they knew would be a disaster.

    2. rafken profile image74
      rafkenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I applaud your forum and agree that something should be done. I think that by now most people know something is going on, even if many are in denial. The problem is though, although they know it all affects them, they don't know what to do about it. Your forum is perhaps the start of a rallying cry but more than just hubbers are needed. I am therefore, with your permission, asking my social media friends to read your forum and to please pass it on. Along these lines please check out my latest hub "War and the US Dollar", I will continue to try and write hubs like this in an effort to encourage people to take notice of what is going on around them. I have friends who would be interested in hearing more from you. You can contact me initially via hubs. Well done and good luck.

      1. psycheskinner profile image80
        psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        The people in denial are the ones who think Northwoods involved killing Americans. You only have to read it to see this is untrue.

        1. lone77star profile image76
          lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          @psycheskinner, you can continue to remain in denial. But who do you hurt by doing that?

          Can you seriously suggest that terrorist attacks on American cities would be entirely devoid of collateral damage and possibly even deaths? Northwoods recommended such attacks.

          And, most telling, can you seriously suggest that starting a war based upon such a lie would not result in at least one death of an American soldier?

          Soldiers are not pawns to use at the whim of politicians or for corporate greed. They are to be used to defend America and its Constitution -- something recent politicians have forgotten, despite their Oaths of Office.

          Yes, I've read Operation Northwoods' documents. There are some things in it which clearly would not result in deaths. But there are others that could very easily result in lots of deaths, especially the intent to go to war!

          Got it?

          WAR! Tell me of a war that doesn't result in deaths.

          1. psycheskinner profile image80
            psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I am speaking of project Northwoods itself, not events it might have lead to had it every been put in practice.  It did not involve a plan to kill anyone (contrary to what OP asserted).  Also, as it never happened, it never killed anyone by any method direct or indirect. The President did not consider it a conscionable plan.  Hard to see what is wrong with that.

            1. Moderndayslave profile image59
              Moderndayslaveposted 11 years agoin reply to this
              1. lone77star profile image76
                lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Amen! That's the big point. Lies to sell a war. And wars always result in deaths.

                If my brother, sister, son or daughter were in the military, I would hope and pray that the government would not put them in harm's way on purpose and based upon a lie perpetrated by them.

            2. lone77star profile image76
              lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              @psycheskinner, perhaps you did not read my last comment carefully enough. And perhaps you did not read Operation Northwoods carefully enough.
              @psycheskinner, perhaps you ignored my other point on purpose, or perhaps you merely skimmed my last comment and missed the bit about terrorism in US cities. Were you being willfully ignorant? Or merely accidentally ignorant?

              Are you really that heartless? What if your son or daughter, sister or brother, mother or father were killed in the operation to attack Cuba based upon Lemnitzer's lie? Oh, that's okay. Soldiers are merely government issue property. They don't matter. Is that what you're implying? Or would you imply that because it happened after Operation Northwoods, then it wouldn't have anything to do with that operation? I would call that a problem of logic -- cause and effect. If you call the police on false pretenses, that's a crime. If a policeman is killed because of it, you could be held liable.

              The big point that seems to be missed here is that the Government is capable of planning such an event as 9/11 or Operation Northwoods. That should be enough to wake up any citizen to the fact that the government can and does lie to us. Remember the fake WMDs Bush sold us? Did you see how he laughed about "Oops, no WMDs here," but our soldiers and thousands of innocents were dying because of his lie? Wake up @psycheskinner, or the government's lies may bite you in the caboose,... or worse.


              Now, let's take a closer look at "Operation Northwoods." Here are some direct quotes from it.

              "2. a. (7) Lob mortar shells from outside of base into base."

              Can this be done without casualties? Can that be guaranteed? If even one soldier (or civilian on base) happens not to have received the memo or not know of the imminent danger, might stray into the target zone at the wrong time.

              "2. a. (10) Sabotage ship in harbor; large fires -- napthalene."

              Again, no casualties? Promise? Guarantee?

              3. b. does indicate "non-existent crew." Bravo. No casualties there. Gee, @psycheskinner. You win a point. That makes up for all the potential collateral damage caused by the other plans. I feel so secure.


              "4. We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington. The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the United States. We could sink a boatload of Cubans enroute to Florida (real or simulated). We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized. Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots, the arrest of Cuban agents and the release of preapred documents substantiating Cuban involvement also would be helpful in projecting the idea of an irresponsible government."

              A terror campaign without casualties? Sink a boatload of Cubans (real or simulated) without people being harmed or dying. Okay, these are not Americans, so it's perfectly okay to do anything we want to them. Right? Are you that heartless?

              "5. ... 'Cuban' B-26 or C-46 type aircraft could make cane-burning raids at night."

              And there will be 100% certainty that our allies in those countries will not be harmed? What about the little boy who chases after his pet goat into the field just as the strike happens? Oops! Too bad. He doesn't mean anything. He's just a peasant. He's not even American.

              "7. Hijacking attempts against civil air and surface craft should appear to continue as harassing measures condoned by the government of Cuba."

              Perpetrated by our own agent provocateurs, but what if citizens on those transports attempt to block the hijackings and are hurt or killed? Messy business, this stuff. So unpredictable when you use violence and lies.

              Northwoods also suggested recreating the sinking of the USS Maine, February, 1898, when an explosion aboard the battleship Maine in Havana harbor killed 266 U.S. sailors. Lemnitzer implies that the ship will be empty, but can he guarantee that. Can he guarantee that the explosion won't have collateral damage, maiming or killing people in the vicinity?

              @psycheskinner, you're absolutely right if you imply that Operation Northwoods does not explicitly recommend killing anyone. But it does recommend so many things that could easily result in deaths, because war is always messy, even a "false flag" war to provoke a war.

              If you still feel about Operation Northwoods that it's "hard to see what is wrong with that," then I would then realize that logic and compassion are not part of your vocabulary. I hope I'm wrong on this.

      2. lone77star profile image76
        lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Thanks, @Rafken. That sounds great.

        There are some "conspiracy theorists" who go overboard. Even I have, on occasion, swallowed information that upon further investigation turned out to be false or questionable. That's all part of learning.

        I think the more people we have talking about this and shining a light on the subject the better.

        Especially, if we can keep the discussions civil and logical.

  2. aguasilver profile image70
    aguasilverposted 11 years ago

    You are right, civil disobedience worked in India and Czechoslovakia, and will work surprisingly quickly today, especially as the world of commerce is now 80% controlled by 55 major banks (who in turn are controlled by the Rothschild's) who own 1300+ trans-global corporations, which in turn own the 43,000+ major corporations which between then control 80% of the worlds trade.

    We need to support the other 20% of independents who are out there.


    The 1%'s biggest weakness is their global nature of control, they control so many large corporations that simply by shopping locally and buying produce grown by local farmers, and stopping buying the consumerist crap they shove at us, would mean they imploded very quickly.

    Cut off the 'live blood' (income) and the BEAST will die on it's feet.



    1. Freud-Wise profile image59
      Freud-Wiseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Good post, John. Thanks.

      1. aguasilver profile image70
        aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Thanks Freud-Wise, see you have been excommunicated, was it something you said?

    2. lone77star profile image76
      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, John. Excellent points.

  3. profile image0
    HowardBThinameposted 11 years ago

    Well, to each their own, but there's no truth to the demolition conspiracy of the towers. The same theorists sometimes claim a plane never hit the Pentagon. That one I can personally debunk.

    I know it's fun to believe in conspiracies, and in rare cases, they're actually true. This one, however, is pretty farfetched.

    But, that shouldn't stop anyone from enjoying themselves. smile

    1. lone77star profile image76
      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      @HowardBThiname, I'm glad you think that conspiracies at least sometimes happen. The Bush conspiracy theory went over very well for many Americans. Even I went along with it for a decade. I even thought that if Revelation is being played out now, that Al Qaeda must be the beast, with all its terrorist cells all over the world. But I had never investigated the issues very deeply.

      I like the facts. Now, I wonder where you get the idea that there's "no truth to the demolition conspiracy of the towers." On what do you base your claim?

      I question your lumping "the same theorists" claiming a plane never hit the Pentagon. What does "the same" mean? Would it be more accurate to say, "some" of the same?

      But you have me curious about your statement that you can personally debunk the idea that the plane never hit the Pentagon. I really would love to hear more. I'm all about changing my view based on facts. That's how I enjoy myself. smile

      So, please tell me.

    2. lone77star profile image76
      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      @HowardBThiname, I would still like to hear about your personal ability to debunk the idea that no plane hit the Pentagon. You have someone anxious and willing to listen. In the absence of a response, I have no way to accept your unsupported claim.

      Even if you do give me exact time, place, form and event of what you experienced, I can only accept it as one person's perception (or possibly lie). If I find other people with similar input, then your statement takes on more of a sense of truth.

      For instance, were you there on site when it happened? Where exactly were you standing? What exactly did you see? Did you see the airplane and follow it all the way into the Pentagon, or did you lose sight of it for even a moment before impact?

      Every witness I've heard never covers these details. You could be the first.

      Every other witness I've heard sees the plane approach the Pentagon, they lose sight of the plane, then hear and (some of them) see the explosion. Their assumption is that the low-flying plane hit the Pentagon. Yet many eyewitnesses who were interviewed on film right after 9/11 and also a few years later described airplane paths incompatible with the physical evidence.

      There was only one plane which approached the building within moments of the explosion. And yet one witness on the other side of the Pentagon saw a low-flying plane pulling away from the Pentagon moments after the explosion. Could he have been lying? Perhaps, but there seemed to be no motive in that. In fact, he innocently thought the truth would not be an issue, until he learned the purpose of the documentary. Then he refused any more interviews.

      So, @HowardBThiname, please add your 2-cents worth on this. It could be far more valuable than either one of us know.

      1. profile image0
        HowardBThinameposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        LoneStar, I don't get back to a lot of threads, so finding this one again was a shot in the dark, but I'm glad I did.

        Yes, I can debunk the "no plane hit the Pentagon" conspiracy, but not because I was there - I wasn't anywhere close.

        I have a dear and long-time friend who is a professional witness for the FAA. He's one of the top in the nation. Although it was a terrorist attack, he was called to examine the Pentagon event. Only to determine why and how the plane compressed in the manner it did. Nothing he told me was classified, but he did show me some of the photos of the skeletal structure of the plane. What survived was badly burned and compressed like an accordion. I would not have been able to identify the parts without him telling me what each part was.

        So no - I was not there. But, this is a person I trust implicitly and he examined the wreckage and he personally took the photos I saw. He has no political agenda, his only purpose is to determine why the aircraft reacted in the way it did and how (if any) changes can be made to future aircraft to offer better protection. This guy has a PhD in aeronautic engineering and if he says there was a plane - there was a plane.

        I have no knowledge of a plane "pulling away," but there were stories in PA about another plane that (might have) shot down the passenger plane there. My friend did not examine that site, and he's good about not guessing about events he doesn't personally investigate, but he did say that "in-air explosions" typically result in aircraft debris being spread over a similarly large area. If a plane did "pull away" from the Pentagon - maybe it was one of ours that did not intercept the passenger flight in time to prevent it from hitting the Pentagon? I don't know anything about that - so I can only guess.

        I do know that in the aftermath of a traumatic event - often eyewitnesses give VERY different accounts. The brain works in mysterious ways.

        1. lone77star profile image76
          lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Good stuff. See my reply, below.

    3. Ralph Deeds profile image69
      Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      At last something we can agree on.

      1. lone77star profile image76
        lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        @Ralph Deeds, do you have anything to say about the facts behind the demolition of 3 World Trade Center buildings?

        With a percentage of iron microspheres of between 0.2 - 5.87% in all of the concrete dust samples from 9/11, we have at the very least an estimated 1500 metric tons of iron in all of that dust. That's using the 0.2% figure by weight.

        That alone proves controlled demolition. That fact doesn't say who did it, but we only have to look at the fact that all 3 buildings were highly secure. Bush family members ran the security company, and the CIA was a tenant of 7WTC. Were they involved in the demolition, or were they incredibly clueless?

        How does it prove demolition? Even the government admitted that the fires were insufficient to melt steel, and yet we have here evidence that iron had been melted -- tons of it! Melted and aerosolized into microspheres.

        Then there's the pesky matter of insufficient PE (potential energy) to account for all the work done on the destruction of each of the buildings. The original mass and height was insufficient to account for all of the bending or breaking of previously undamaged steel beams, the complete pulverization of thousands of tons of concrete, the ejection of those tons of concrete dust into the air of lower Manhattan, and the heating of that dust as felt by nearby witnesses. Each of those takes incredible amounts of energy. One scientist estimated that it would've taken 50 times the original PE.

        How would you explain the microspheres?

        How would you explain the energy deficit?

        1. American View profile image60
          American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Even the government admitted that the fires were insufficient to melt steel,

          Cite your source of this government claim

          1. lone77star profile image76
            lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Certainly. Here's one source:

            http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/ … s_wtc7.cfm
            (see item #24)

            http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/fact … 082006.cfm
            (see item #2)

            Melting point of iron is 1538C degrees. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron)

            The following PBS video has experts weighing in on the government's apparent faulty conclusions:


            1. American View profile image60
              American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Did you read the article from us first two links? While I am not sure that was a government article, but if it was it clearly states that WTC 7 collapsed due to the fire, and not by some demolition conspiracy. Not sure why you would post an article opposite of what you are claiming.

              I went to watch your video. After about 10 min. of bogus commercials long introductions finally it looked like he was going to get to the show and what did I say, Richard Gage from the AIA walked out and began to speak. I immediately turned it off. There have been many profiteers on the backs of the victims and the tragedy of 9/11 none worse than Richard Gage. He has profited multimillions of dollars over this incident. It disgusts me all those who look to profit while hundreds of my brothers, and who knows how many hundreds more from all the personnel there were at Ground Zero cannot get the healthcare or medical treatments that they need

              So the question stands to did not answer, cite your source that the government claims the fires were insufficient to cause the buildings collapsed.

              1. Moderndayslave profile image59
                Moderndayslaveposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                What a load of crap.(" Richard Gage from the AIA walked out and began to speak. I immediately turned it off.") I googled "Richard Gage profiteering off 911" Nothing of that nature came up,so please state your source on that one. This did come up though," 911 de-bunker Gets his ass handed to him by Richard Gage"
                So you apparently didn't see any testimony from "your own brothers" or from anyone else for that matter.  There are psychologists at the end explaining why people still refuse to consider the facts,you can fast forward the video by putting the cursor on the dot on the bar with the time near it and slide it to any part you wish. Maybe start there.  smile

                1. American View profile image60
                  American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I posted the link below for Richard Gage speaking engagements, in fact is doing one today.. The site shows he has already done 270 and in parentheses it says and growing. if you do the math, he started this organization in 2006, that means to reach 270 he's done 80 lectures a year. The site also shows he's done 250 radio interviews, and makes money off the sales of the DVDs of his documentary.his website takes donations, and he also has corporate sponsors. the page will also show he has had a world tour as well. That part appears to not be up-to-date, but it does show where he's was in 2009.

                  We had this discussion before about firefighters, some of them have said that there interviews were taken out of context, some of whom have recanted. Of course we don't hear about that. Nobody has ever denied the hearing of explosions, hearing explosions in a fire is quite common. There are thousands of reasons from little to be explosions.

                  Interesting your analysis of a psychologist explaining people refusing facts, How does a psychologist know what the facts are? Psychologists will back people who have conspiracy theories know why, because their our patients. I'm sure there are tons of psychiatrist out there that could testify why people love to believe in conspiracies. Then again all of them just like you were not there that day.

                  http://www.ae911truth.org/en/events.htm … g_Speaking

                  1. Moderndayslave profile image59
                    Moderndayslaveposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    That's funny ,I didn't see much about money on that site, There was a link to donate to 911 truth. Can you please put up some links containing these witnesses recanting? I have never seen any.The facts were presented by  other Architects,Engineers,Military,metallurgists and physicists. I put up a link to a well done video and I got back vague generalizations. You can get past the Gage part easily. Just forward past him. AS to ("Then again all of them just like you were not there that day.")  More the reason you should learn the truth. The whole world got screwed , some more than others.

              2. lone77star profile image76
                lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Yes, @AV, I read it. You asked for a government source for my claim that the government said that the fires were not hot enough to melt steel. That's what I gave you. I made no claims to the accuracy of the government article.

                You claim that Mr. Gage is a profiteer? Okay, that's your opinion. Personally, I'm glad he did what he did to help shed some light on an incident the government seems clear in its desire to hide and to cover up. Bush stopped others from investigating, dragged his own feet until victim family members held his feet to the fire, and then Bush underfunded and refused to cooperate fully with the commission, prompting the chairman to state that the commission had been set up to fail.

                It grieves me that personnel and first responders cannot get the care they need. That's incredible and heartbreaking. The fact that the EPA said that the air was safe to breathe within a week of 9/11 should be counted as criminally negligent.

                But @AV, you changed the question!

                Earlier you said, "Even the government admitted that the fires were insufficient to melt steel, Cite your source of this government claim."


                Now, kindly point out where I ever said that "the government claims the fires were insufficient to cause the buildings collapsed."

                I can't find such a claim in my memory or my writing.


  4. Roger Crigger profile image60
    Roger Criggerposted 11 years ago

    No disagreement AT ALL from this child.... All that I can say is, it's going by the book and nothing, (in my opinion) is going to stop it! If there is a way to change any of the happenings and plans being set up, I have  no idea what that would be. But your information, I've seen before and NOTHING would surprise me. I'm going to bring this to the attention of a VERY BRIGHT friend of mine named Co auther U if you don't mind. And do I have your permission to share this?

    1. lone77star profile image76
      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      @Roger Crigger, I understand what you mean. And yes, please share any or all of this.

      But let's look at the idea that nothing can stop it.

      First of all, the Almighty God can stop it. Many of the signs in Revelation have already come about and 9/11 is one of them. And the beast is not Al Qaeda, as I once thought when I bought into the Bush "conspiracy theory." The beast is greed and the Rockefellers, Rothschilds and friends. It says that if it were not for His intervention all would be lost -- in other words, all of humanity would be destroyed.

      Now, we can simply stand by and watch the events unfold, or we can help our fellow humans prepare for the coming storm. In fact, we can help attempt to stop or ameliorate the effects of the coming tyranny. How?

      For one thing, make more people aware. Help nudge them out of their normalcy bias. Help them become active participants rather than passive witnesses or couch potatoes.

      We can use the Internet (at least while it remains free and unencumbered) to organize ourselves to take specific, peaceful, laser-focused and massive action against some of the elite and their corporations. We can pick a particularly dirty corporation and target it for boycott. Take any defense contractor who also has consumer divisions, like GE, and boycott products from all of its subsidiaries. Tell them to stop lobbying Congress. Tell them to stop voting for politicians with their political contributions -- effectively buying votes.

      Get enough people to do this and any corporation would not be able to withstand the public. If they realize (again) that they need the customers, then they might learn some temporary humility. If that can buy us more time to help save more lives and more souls, that would be a good thing.

      1. Roger Crigger profile image60
        Roger Criggerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Amen! I agree and maybe action like that of which you speak is also "part" of ...Going by the book!"  Inevitably, God's Will, WILL be done! But I do agree with your comment, "  we can help our fellow humans prepare for the coming storm. In fact, we can help attempt to stop or ameliorate the effects of the coming tyranny." And beyond a doubt buying more time to help save more lives and more souls, would not only be a good thing but is in fact... a mandate from God Himself.
        God bless you my friend

        1. lone77star profile image76
          lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Thank you, Roger. May God bless you and yours.

  5. psycheskinner profile image80
    psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

    I think there is more than enough evidence to show that 9/11 is just what is seems to be.  We know the identity of every person directly involved and the flags they flew were of allies--mostly Saudis.  So as a false flag endeavor that would be a bit of a blooper.

    1. lone77star profile image76
      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks, @psycheskinner. Yes, there is more than enough evidence. It seems to be an inside job blamed on a patsy.

      You seem to buy the Bush "conspiracy theory." That's comforting. So did I for a decade. You and I shared in that delusion.

      Within minutes on September 11, 2001, we knew the identities of the hijackers. One hijacker died a year before 9/11. A handful of others were outraged that their pictures were being spread around with lies that they were the hijackers. One was even interviewed by the BBC! After his supposed death!

      L. Paul Bremmer, had an office in the impact zone of the 2nd tower to be hit. Instead of being in his office, he miraculously found himself at one TV studio after another telling the world who was responsible and that we might just have to attack Iraq and maybe even Iran. Was he the pitch man selling the prepared "Solution" to the 9/11 "Problem" and desired public "Reaction?"

      Transportation Secretary Mineta was bewildered when VP Cheney ordered the military to let an airplane continue its approach toward the Pentagon on the morning of 9/11. Moments later, the report came in that the Pentagon had been hit. Why would the VP do that? Mineta testified later to his bewilderment.

      Those military officers responsible for the protection of the Pentagon and the air space above America who failed on 9/11 were all given promotions! Why is that? Usually, when an officer fails in their duty they're reprimanded or demoted.

      Simple Physics

      Each of the 3 WTC buildings which catastrophically collapsed on 9/11 possessed a limited amount of potential energy (PE) before collapse. The amount of work performed on each building exceeded that PE by a factor of about 50! That extra energy had to come from somewhere. So, what was this extra kinetic energy (KE) that was consumed?

      * The bending or breaking of tens of thousands of tons of undamaged steel beams in the remainder of each building. (Oh yes, why did the government commit a felony by destroying crime scene evidence?)
      * The complete pulverization of tens of thousands of tons of concrete.
      * The ejection of those tons of concrete dust to spread over all of lower Manhattan.
      * The heating of all of that concrete dust as felt by nearby witnesses just after the collapses.

      Oh yes, one more batch of KE:

      * The near free-fall acceleration of each WTC building as it collapsed.

      Normally, free-fall consumes 100% of the original PE, leaving 0% for all that extra work to be performed.

      Now, do you get the picture? Okay, but it gets worse....

      It Gets Worse

      Do you remember the gigantic clouds of concrete dust which catapulted outward from the sides of the 2 towers when they fell? Those clouds started from the very top of the collapse! Think about that for a moment. Those extra tens of thousands of tons of concrete were not part of the PE which hit the floors below. In other words, they did not add to the impetus of the collapse. They couldn't! They were in the air -- not hitting the floors below them.

      Iron Microspheres

      Even the government's team of experts admitted that the fires in the 2 towers were not hot enough to melt steel. And yet there is evidence of molten iron (from which steel is made) in the 9/11 dust. The amount of these iron microspheres varied from sample to sample, but taking the lowest percentage means that there were close to 1500 metric tons of iron microspheres in the concrete dust which covered lower Manhattan. That's 1500 metric tons of iron which was only moments before molten and ejected forcefully causing it to become aerosolized.

      Something caused that extra heat. It certainly wasn't weak, oxygen-starved office fires. It certainly wasn't jet fuel fires which burned out in the first few seconds after impact.

      There were hot spots in the WTC weeks after 9/11 with temperatures well over 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. What was the source of this phantom heat seen by our satellites? Could the scientists and engineers at www.AE911Truth.org be right in saying that it was likely caused by latent thermitic reactions. Even though buried, thermite contains its own source of oxygen -- the ferric oxide portion which becomes elemental, metallic iron after reaction -- the iron microspheres which spew outward from thermitic cutter charges. They normally reach temperatures of nearly double the melting point of iron.

      And there's more, but I don't want to write a book here.


      1. American View profile image60
        American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I find it interesting and your perspective of 9/11, or should I say your conspiracy theory, that you keep bringing up the collapse of three WTC buildings. You are where that more than three buildings collapsed that day are you not? Got any theories on those?

        1. lone77star profile image76
          lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          "You are where?"  Do you mean, "You are aware?"

          From the photos I've seen of the other WTC buildings, it looks as though they received far more damage from the falling debris of WTC1 and WTC2, but their structures were not symmetrically collapsed as were the main 3. Steel beams were still standing the full height of the original buildings. That can easily be explained by falling debris.

          1. American View profile image60
            American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Sorry for the typo. I am breaking in a new updated version of Dragon

            First, let me correct you. The other buildings that collapsed also collapsed symmetrically. In a building collapse, all still beings do not necessarily buckle under some of the first main support beams can still stand up even after the collapse.

            I like your comment " that can easily be explained". I've noticed several times that you said she wants know the answers you want to learn, you put up posts with interesting statistics, someone who does that would not accept or put as an answer that something is easily explained

            So the question stands, are you aware that more than three buildings collapsed and and what are your theories on those? Do you think they had thermite in them to?

            1. lone77star profile image76
              lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I'm sorry, @AV. I don't know why you ask this again. I answered this already.

              Here, I'll copy my answer again:

              From the photos I've seen of the other WTC buildings, it looks as though they received far more damage from the falling debris of WTC1 and WTC2, but their structures were not symmetrically collapsed as were the main 3. Steel beams were still standing the full height of the original buildings. That can easily be explained by falling debris.

              If you were correct in correcting me about the asymmetrical collapse, I would gladly eat crow and say, "Goodness, you're right! I didn't know."

              But that's not the case.

              Here are some photos of WTC 3, 4, 5 and 6 before they were demolished by crews of demolition experts.

              http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidenc … c3456.html

              As you can see, they did not fully collapse symmetrically.

    2. lone77star profile image76
      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Well, @psycheskinner. Just when the conversation got interesting, you disappear. I hope you come back and discuss the details.

      1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image84
        Wesman Todd Shawposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        She works for Monsanto....everyone knows that.  Discerning the truth is easy - whatever she says is the opposite of the truth.

        1. lone77star profile image76
          lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          If only the rest of life were that simple!

  6. maxoxam41 profile image64
    maxoxam41posted 11 years ago

    History speaks for itself. The fact that you are using "may" implies a doubt in your mind whereas what is the difference between the operation Northwoods and Sept 11? Attacked its own people, hijacked planes, crashed planes! Where is the doubt? You have the blueprint, there!
    Why wouldn't the people use the same policy than the oligarchs namely violence? Isn't the probable new law against the individual possession of weapons aiming at it? I think the natural human behavior is rioting. Now facing violent representatives of the state (police) to oppose us, weapons will be relevant!

    1. lone77star profile image76
      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks, @maxoxam41, for your input.

      Doubt? When investigating anything, I prefer to use restraint, rather than doubt. Skepticism, regrettably used by most scientists, contains a built-in bias -- that of doubt. Restraint, on the other hand, contains no bias. It merely says, "I don't have all the data, yet. I can't draw a final conclusion." But even then, when I draw a conclusion, I can't hold it as perfect or final. Just as Newton's "laws" were found to be imperfect as one approached the velocity of light, any other investigation can only approach a high probability in its answer. That's the better part of science.

      Weapons? I'd prefer not to use violence. It's all too "human" to resort to violence. Ego is built on selfishness, but we need to shed ego and try for something of a higher nature -- something more divine.

      Something like Gandhi's peaceful civil disobedience would work.

      Can you imagine 50 million Americans marching on Washington DC? The government would freak! We could take back and legalize the Constitution in a day or two. But will we?

  7. psycheskinner profile image80
    psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

    The difference is that it actual;y happened, we know who did it, and we know why.

    Also the Northwoods crash was to be faked, with no civilians on board. Northwoods was not meant to involve any American deaths--as is clear if you read the documents.

    1. aguasilver profile image70
      aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Dark Ops Commander: " Mr President, we regret that some Americans may die in the operation, but think instead of the millions of lives that will be saved from death, from oppression, and given liberty"

      POTUS: "What you ask is a horrific scenario, I will need to think on this and be advised, and be assured that there will never be any evidence of this act"

      Dark Ops Commander: "I assure you that nobody will ever be able to PROVE that we enacted this operation, my men are all top level operatives, the Israeli Mossad have agreed to provide the actual 'hijackers' and all evidence of the thermite destruction charges will be removed before any forensic examination could take place"

      Rothschild Agent: "Mr President, quit with the small talk, The Illuminatii council have agreed to this operation, so get with the program, or you will be retired, we already have another POTUS waiting to agree to whatever we request, so shit, or get off the pot"

      POTUS: "You're sure it can never be tracked back to us?"

      1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image84
        Wesman Todd Shawposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        John that person you're talking to literally gets paid to troll these forums and say whatever the corporations paying her tell her to say.

        It's merely that person's function on this website.

        1. aguasilver profile image70
          aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Easy money if you can stomach it.

          Thankfully I have no need to work as a concentration camp guard.

    2. lone77star profile image76
      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      @psycheskinner, I'm sure the real culprits will be happy to know that you know who did it, especially when it seems that you seem to think the Bush "conspiracy theory" is the "theory" to buy.

      You say that Northwoods was not meant to involve any American deaths? How do you know? In the document (and you say you've read it) it says to invoke the "remember the Maine," which was possibly another false flag operation which did result in American deaths. Northwoods suggests blowing up another ship in Guantanamo Bay. You seem certain that no one would be on board that ship. I wouldn't be so certain. What if someone didn't get the "memo?"

      Yes, the document does talk about taking out unmanned drones.

      But the document also says, "We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington." Terror campaign says to me violence. Where there's violence, there is the potential for "collateral damage" and even deaths.

      "We could sink a boatload of Cubans enroute to Florida (real or simulated)." Here, they're not talking about Americans, but people who want to become Americans -- real or simulated. If real, then some or all might die from the sinking of the boat. "Collateral" deaths might be prevented, but could they guarantee that?

      "We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized." Not Americans, granted, but potential Americans or at least those trusting this country for assylum. Not a very trustworthy thing to do. And what if someone dies from their wounds?

      And though the document does talk of evacuating members of a non-existent crew with casualty lists in the US newspapers that "would cause a helpful wave of national indignation," the point of the operation would be to start a war!

      Do Americans die in wars in which America is involved? How can you prevent American deaths? Don't go to war!

      You seem convinced that Northwoods was benign. But was it? American soldiers join up to defend the Constitution, not to go attacking other countries on false pretenses. And now it seems that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were merely wars of Corporate greed. The military industrial complex was hungry for new, lucrative contracts, since the evil Soviet empire had crumbled. The oil companies were hungry to steal the Middle East oil. That's a pretty big motive. And Cheney still had money coming in from Halliburton. What a big conflict of interest that was.

  8. profile image0
    Nancy's Nicheposted 11 years ago

    Excellent article and right on target (no pun intended) with others I have read and listened to thru videos. I cannot believe the citizens of this country shut their eyes to the corruption within our own government. They keep voting the fools back in office and helping their plan along because they (congress/president) are all bought and paid for by the one per-cent who want to control the world and make the rest of us slaves…

    It does not take a genius to realize that when the twin towers fell in their own footprints, it was a demolition set up. I faced the reality of how corrupt our government was at age 35---and it was a hard pill to swallow.  For more info check out WWW.inforwars.com...

    1. lone77star profile image76
      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks, @Nancy's Niche. I'm familiar with Alex Jones's websites and videos. Sometimes he's a bit over-the-top. Sometimes even I have a hard time believing some of the stuff he says, but enough of it has sufficient evidence to make me listen and investigate.

      It took me 10 years to wake up to 9/11. Five of those years, I lived outside the country. Not living with the day-to-day bombardment of the Corporate Party media kool-aid makes it easier to wake up and to investigate contrary ideas.

      I think a big part of the problem is that many people have a much higher Normalcy Bias threshold and can't see beyond their own need for the status quo. That's sad and a bit scary. If the Jews of Nazi Germany had only stood up en masse, they might have put Hitler and his thugs down. But individuals are timid when it comes to violent extortion by those in power. And it's easy to wish away the problems and hope tomorrow will be brighter.

      1. Lady_E profile image65
        Lady_Eposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Wow.... that shook me up Nancy's Niche. I will check out the site.

  9. profile image0
    HowardBThinameposted 11 years ago

    Operation Northwoods appears to be blown way out of proportion. It appears to be just a list of "ideas" in response to a question by McNamara for brainstorming ideas of what the US could do to justify an attack on Cuba. And, as one of a number of ideas that came to McNamara, Operation Northwoods was summarily rejected.

    Instead of making folks upset - that give us a bit of confidence. There are always those folks who have messed up ideas, but in the vast majority of cases, someone in the chain of command stops them quickly.

    Also, keep in mind that was 60 years ago, when the Cold War was in full swing. For decades, there have been rumors that Roosevelt knew in advance of the Pearl Harbor attack.

    The saving grace is that people in power change and (for the most part) people don't tolerate mischief.

    1. lone77star profile image76
      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      @HowardBThiname, I love your idea of "saving grace." That sounds so sweet and I hunger for it. I used to believe it. For 10 years I bought the Bush "conspiracy theory" that 19 hijackers, the identities of which were known blazingly fast, used box cutters to overcome a plane load of people and their military trained pilots and expertly flew the planes into 3 prime targets all the while the military did not pursue them. Typically, fighter interceptors reach wayward planes within a few minutes. Not on 9/11. And the officers responsible for the failures that day all got promotions! How do you figure that?

      I'd love to go back to my belief in America, but the erosions of the Constitution and Bill of Rights makes it too important to take the Corporate Party media kool-aid any longer. American news, I'd heard for years, is biased. I never really believed it until I lived outside the country for 5 years. Now, it's obvious.

      We have been expertly led to believe that the government is too incompetent and there are too many good-meaning people in the right places to allow something like 9/11 to have been an inside job.

      I hope you have a chance to read my reply to @psycheskinner, above, regarding the proof that 9/11 was an inside job. Even if I didn't understand physics, I'd remain highly suspicious of the events of 9/11 in New York City.

      I remain suspicious about the felony that was committed by the government in destroying crime scene evidence. All that steel shipped to China and elsewhere? Starting the same day!? Incredible! If Giuliani wasn't an idiot, then he was guilty of at least a major felony.

      America is now on a dark path, mirroring very closely that taken by Nazi Germany. Hitler pulled off a major coup after the burning of the Reichstag, shredding their Constitution and then attacking other countries for the security of the Homeland. That led to WW2. Are we headed for WW3?

      The way the presidents and Congress have been trashing the economy lately, racking up an insane debt which has been skyrocketing nighmarishly under both Bush and Obama, I suspect that debt bubble will pop somewhere between $16-30 Trillion, leaving American citizens slaves to the banks -- especially the Central Bank -- the very private Federal Reserve.

      I hate "I told you so," especially on something that might mean the death of 80% of humanity. That breaks my heart. I really wish it weren't so. But then there's a reason for all of the suffering.

      There's actually a silver lining to all of this.

      Genesis says that God created man in His own image and likeness. A chapter later, it says that man was created from the dust of the ground. Two different creations -- one spiritual and one physical. We are in His image, but God is not Homo sapiens. This rescue mission called "humanity" isn't about the bodies we wear. God wants his children back and they are not physical beings. Our downfall (crime) was that we decided to become physical -- we tasted the fruit of dichotomy -- action-reaction, and we wear it like a ball and chain. The truth really will set you free.

      1. Roger Crigger profile image60
        Roger Criggerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I have been trumpeting this truth from the rooftops ever since I first started to get a grasp on the difference between the "dust" man and the man created in the image and likeness of God! It goes very, very deep, but I believe (through years of study...From the Original meanings of words to the blatantly obvious (in your face) word of God), That EVERYTHING that we experience IN THESE DECAYING bodies...Our Spirit will take with us when we go. I.E. REAL compassion, REAL Love, REAL understanding of forgiving and being forgiven, and I believe that it wasn't haphazardly set up this way..."In the beginning". I'll leave it there for now because, it's off topic for this particular thread, but, as usual, I couldn't agree with you more Lone77...I'm glad to have found you as a brother in the Lord, while still on this rock! God bless your heart my friend!

        1. lone77star profile image76
          lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks, Roger. I'm glad we've met on this 3rd rock from the sun. It's home for now, but soon we'll be moving on.

          1. Roger Crigger profile image60
            Roger Criggerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Amen....We're not of this world anyway...Just passing through.
            But it REALLY does not surprise me that most people won't buy this, even with MOUNTAINS of evidence! Just as it is with the MOST IMPORTANT truth... Whatever is most convenient is the answer, "  For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.;" - 2 Tim. 4:3

            1. lone77star profile image76
              lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              LOL! Stroking their egos! Typical and sad.

    2. rhamson profile image71
      rhamsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I really have a lot of admiration for your level headed responses to the conspiracy theories that you debunk on these pages. I cannot agree with you on all cases but I reserve judgement as to whether they are theories or reality until all the evidence is exposed. Unfortunately the people in possession of that evidence are less than cooperative. So I entertain and reason my way through them not based on what my government exposes but by the evidence that refutes what little the government does provide. As to the 911 theories of the controlled demolition there is that pesky matter of the thermite.........

      1. lone77star profile image76
        lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Thermite and the more than 1500 metric tons of iron microspheres estimated to have existed in all of the concrete dust. Those iron microspheres could only have come from molten iron, but even the government admits that the fires were not hot enough to melt steel (iron).

        I saw an interesting video a couple of days ago by a guy who created microspheres from burning steel wool with a cigarette lighter. He then took his steel wool to a powerful microscope and showed his steel microspheres. Impressive! The only problem with his spheres was that they had spikes sticking out of them from the pesky threads of steel wool still attached to them -- microspheres with horns. His thesis is that iron microspheres do not prove controlled demolition. But I countered with the notion that it is highly unlikely that there were 1500+ metric tons of steel wool within the zone of fires on 9/11. Controlled demolition still seems to be the most likely explanation.

        If we have controlled demolition of all 3 buildings, then we have a problem that can only be solved by 9/11 having been an inside job. Al Qaeda could not have had unfettered access to these 3, highly-secure buildings for the required weeks or months to prepare them for such controlled demolition. They couldn't, unless the Bush family security company and the CIA allowed them to do so. Or Bush family security and the CIA could've been drop-dead incompetent, but somehow I don't think this is very likely.

  10. lone77star profile image76
    lone77starposted 11 years ago

    Someone commented in the last few hours on one of my hubs and I checked out some of their writing. That led me to a YouTube video that I think speaks to the motive behind this topic.

    It's all about power and control -- enslavement.


    This video explains it very well. Each dollar created is debt with interest. The upshot of this system is that the debt can never be paid off. There will always be the unpaid interest to pay off, but money only exists because of debt. In order to pay off the last bit of interest, new debt needs to be created. This system is inherently inflationary and enslaving.

    You owe it to yourself to watch this video. Fractional reserve lending is one of the biggest scams in history. It's a Ponzi scheme and musical chairs all in one. Someone is always -- always! -- going to be left standing (bankrupt), thus transferring wealth to the very rich and increase the population of those in poverty.

  11. Shadesbreath profile image79
    Shadesbreathposted 11 years ago

    If they murder all the stupid ones, I don't care.

    1. JBrumett profile image60
      JBrumettposted 11 years ago

      Hehe, and people say I'm paranoid.  =-P

      BTW I'm not even going to bother looking up that attack about Israel vs the USA during the six day war, because my Uncle was on that ship and the only thing he said they did was hit a whale by accident.  So,  that's a totally B.S. story.  I was alive and watching TV when 9/11 happened so I know that's a lie and a B.S. story.  I watch cartoons and anime all the time and enjoy a good story, but when I get up and put on my big boy pants to go to work I'm an adult.  I stopped listening to rumors when I was in high school.  In fact, I think part of becoming an adult is learning not to fall trap to rumors.  =-P

      1. lone77star profile image76
        lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        @JBrumett, interesting viewpoint.

        On the USS Liberty "accident," we're likely not talking about the same incident or even the same ship. The photos prove you wrong. The dead sailors could not have been "bitten" by a whale, so I don't think your story holds much water there, either.

        As for you being a "big boy," I'm not convinced.

        You talk of trap of rumors, but that's your spin. I'm talking facts plus hypotheses.


        This picture shows the USS Liberty with 30mm canon shells from one of the Israeli attacks. No whale on this planet could've done this. Looks like you and your uncle are the ones dealing with rumors, unless he was merely joking and you misunderstood, or he was on an entirely different ship.

        I wonder how you would've handled the Nazi rise to power in Germany if you had been a German citizen or even a Jew. Hiding your head in the sand won't make them go away. Pretending that you're a big boy won't protect you from their bullets or their jails.

    2. psycheskinner profile image80
      psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

      What i find scary is that some connection is being seen between something the government didn't do in which no one would have died (Northwoods) and something the government didn't do in which a lot of people died (9/11).

      If that is a convincing connection I am can only conclude that my goldfish caused the Bermuda Triangle disappearances.

      1. lone77star profile image76
        lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        What I find disturbing, @psycheskinner, is that you persist in misrepresenting what was written and in jumping to a conclusion without even discussing that jump.

        The jump in question? You assume that no one would've died. Would you stake your life on that? Why don't you discuss the more dangerous aspects of Northwoods, instead of merely assuming Northwoods was entirely benign and harmless. I don't call soldiers going to war "harmless." The fact that the government planned such a thing is horrific. The fact that the government would plan to go to war for secret gain, rather than merely protecting the country from attack, is the BIG POINT you seem to be missing.

        And again, you assume that the government didn't do 9/11. I'm not 100% sure they did, but I'm close to 95% sure. You make a claim without discussing the details. And that's also disturbing.

        If you don't want to discuss these issues and their details, then why are you here?

    3. jacharless profile image76
      jacharlessposted 11 years ago

      ... A close friend of mine lost his sister, whom they still have not found remains of, and finally this past year added her name.
      ...he was 3 blocks away, in his apartment, overlooking the towers when they exploded. And that is the word he used to describe it. He said he felt the impact of both sound and wind as the first shock came round. This was followed by several 'tremors' as he put it. He reached street level when the second aircraft struck. Such an impact and aftershock does not come from an aircraft crashing into the near TOP of a super-reinforced, earthquake proof set of buildings, let alone the remaining 10 building damaged beyond repair or completely demolished.

      As for a plot of civil murder, there is great speculation as to the 2 billion dollar recent purchase by the DHS for a bevvy of weapons and ammo. What is odd about this? Well the DHS only has jurisdiction within US borders. So unless 250 million people are about to "border-jump" or an attack by other nations is eminent on US Soil, then the interest falls onto the citizens of the country -who are greatly suffering at the hands of 85 years of bad leadership, a crumbled economy, over the top layered taxation, etc...

      1. Shadesbreath profile image79
        Shadesbreathposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        You're not kidding. Worse, they did it using an alien timer taken from Area 51, where the aliens are actually still living in secret in and underground bunker beneath the underground bunker everyone thinks has been vacated, and where the aliens are pulling the puppet strings of American politics because they don't have right-brain function and therefore have no movies on their homeworld, which is a huge problem, because plot twists elude them, ironically, and yet they do love a good action flick, so, they force America into killing its own people as part of a big razzle dazzle cabal, all to keep wars going, which they watch on alien TV or rent on Alienflix for only $7 a month—which is way better in relative monetary units than we pay for Netflix here, I can tell you—until some of their offspring, who have been given gene splices with material taken from Seth MacFarlane and the guy who invented Sponge Bob, are finished incubating—aliens take a century to mature—at which point they can possibly start making their own entertainment back on Romulus or wherever they came from, thus freeing America and the rest of the world from their devious conspiracies.

        [Edit: Wow, you completely edited out your whole post by the time I was done typing this. Where's all your crazy stats and wave analysis of the explosions, etc.?]

        1. Uninvited Writer profile image78
          Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          You have the plot for your next novel in that smile

          1. Shadesbreath profile image79
            Shadesbreathposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I'm all over that!!!

            1. jacharless profile image76
              jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              lol. I did edit it out. I lost the thought on particulars of time lines, etc. so best to scrub/edit it. Sorry.

      2. lone77star profile image76
        lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        @jacharless, thanks for the info on your friend near the towers. Too many people heard, felt and suffered from the multiple explosions that day, including one in the basement right before the first impact.

        I don't know what to make of the DHS purchase. That sounds like overkill -- something they'd purchase when planning for civil war or outright anarchy. Sobering thought.

        My greatest concern about 9/11 is that if it was indeed the government behind it, then we went to war (2 specific nations and 1 nebulous forever war against terrorism) and gave up too many Constitutional rights all for a lie.

        First of all, we should never have given up any liberties. Never!

        If terrorists want to attack America, then bring them on. But if it's the government agents pretending to be terrorists and murdering innocent Americans, then we need a change of government. We need to clean house. Regardless, we should never give up our liberties. People will rise to the occasion if threatened. Depending on a Nanny State will only drive people into Learned Helplessness. Somehow, I suspect that's what the Rockefellers want to happen. If Aaron Russo was right, then the Rockefellers want us all microchipped and enslaved.

        Americans know something is wrong, but they can't put their finger on it. Congress has only a 10% approval rating. People are starting to learn about the Federal Reserve and how it's involved in the bailouts, and in sending Trillions of dollars to overseas banks. Yikes! Trillions! Takes my breath away that we're devaluing the dollar with their crazy actions and they want to do it all in secrecy. I sure hope Dr. Ron Paul's finds its senate version approved with enough strength to bypass any presidential veto. That could help restore some fiscal sanity.

    4. lone77star profile image76
      lone77starposted 11 years ago

      This video isn't about the government pulling the strings, but about the power elite behind the government -- including the Rockefellers. This tells about how Nick Rockefeller revealed 9/11 eleven months before 9/11.


    5. ocbill profile image52
      ocbillposted 11 years ago

      I like the boycotting idea but then the govt. will bail out the large corporation with our tax dollars. More debt?

      1. aguasilver profile image70
        aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Not so, see the following post


        The globalists are SO reliant upon US BUYING THEIR CRAP that a boycott would bring them down quickly.

        The would implode.

        1. lone77star profile image76
          lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I wonder if there is a strategic sequence that would make the most of a boycott campaign.

          Like GE is a major defense contractor. Would boycotting all of GE's domestic products be a good way to go, or would they merely huddle more under the military division and weather that storm?

          1. aguasilver profile image70
            aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Actually the fact that these guys are global, and all owned by the same folk, makes them susceptible to attack in the first place.

            But to be effective, the boycott would need to be global also, which is the weak part of the plan, because most folk are just too lazy and apathetic to do without their favourite consumer fixes for even a week, let alone for the next three months.

            "wot, u wan me to not wear Nike's"

            No, we need to awaken a whole lot of folk before any actions could succeed, and the 1% NWO know that, which is why they leave us alone and allow us to expose them.

            The sheeple are soporific to do more than change channel, or vote for anyone who will promise change that favours them with no effort involved.

            Their biggest errors have been allowing the internet to expand as it has (they thought it would be THEIR propaganda machine, and to a degree it is) and letting Facebook exist, because FB does allow activism to reach a wider audience, and even HubPages allows some exposure to truth to seep out to the public.

            1. lone77star profile image76
              lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this


              *** ///       Boycott Corporations       \\\ ***


    6. Evan G Rogers profile image60
      Evan G Rogersposted 11 years ago

      What do you mean by "plans to"?

      It's already happened. Obama murdered 3 US citizens without a trial.

      Romney will continue his legacy.

      Quit voting for sh**ty politicians, grow a pair, and vote for a third party.

      1. lone77star profile image76
        lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Well, yeah, Evan. That's the point.

        And third party? Sounds good to me. But also remove electronic voting machines, force transparency and accountability.

        1. Evan G Rogers profile image60
          Evan G Rogersposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Why stop there.

          Be your own government. Demand Anarchy.

          1. lone77star profile image76
            lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Peaceful anarchy sounds good.

            Many people view anarchy as chaos, violence and looting. I saw too much of that in Los Angeles during the Rodney King riots. Ego takes over and it's all "me, me, me!"

            No mortal form of activity can ever be perfect. Ego, the source of all evil gets too rowdy and tries to take over.

            May God protect us with His coming kingdom. Until then, love and shining a light on the evil will help.

    7. profile image0
      HowardBThinameposted 11 years ago

      I'm still checking for a reply to my post of a few days ago on the Pentagon incident, but perhaps you missed it.

      As far as the WTC tower collapses, the heat was certainly instrumental in weakening the structure in the floors above where the planes struck, but extreme heat (enough to melt steel) wasn't necessary for the buildings to collapse from their tops down.

      From the videos I've seen, it's apparent that the tower collapses start at the points of plane impact where the steel structure is weakened to such an extent that it no longer can bear the loads of the above floors as they burn and collapse downward. Once the collapse starts, the falling weight exacerbates the problem and there's no way to stop it. The structure was simply not designed to withstand that.

      1. lone77star profile image76
        lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Thanks, Howard. I read the post about the Pentagon. Thanks for that. And that's the kind of thing that helps piece things together. The plane pulling away and the other witnesses who saw the commercial airliner come from the "wrong" direction are detailed in a video presented by

        And thanks for your most recent note. Yes, I had missed your earlier post.

        Now, back to the WTC towers. Was heat instrumental in initiating the collapse? I don't know. That's debatable. Likely that debate could go on forever without resolution. One scientist points out that jet fuel in an open-air fire cannot get above a certain temperature, far below that necessary to begin weakening steel. The maximum possible temperature for such a fire is apparently very unlikely given the conditions at the crash site. Hot enough to melt aluminum, but apparently not hot enough to weaken steel. But like I said, I don't know. I can only go by what competing experts claim, and by the source tables they both use for physical parameters and data.

        But, as we discussed on a different thread, we have evidence of at least some molten iron in the WTC concrete dust. Even one metric ton of molten iron would be stunning. And the fact that some of the steel beams show melt damage to them is also startling -- indicative of far hotter temperatures. The atomized nature of the iron indicates forceful dispersion of the iron while still in liquid form. The only possibility I can think of is explosive force combined with thermitic incendiaries. It certainly couldn't have come from the exotic combinations of chemicals held up against the fires and steel beams for an extended period and at the quantity of iron microspheres produced. It also could not have come from a ton or more of steel wool sitting in the fire zone. Physically, it is possible for steel wool to produce that quantity of iron microspheres, but logically it seems far less likely to have that quantity of steel wool than for someone to place explosives and thermitic charges in the several unusual events which took place in the months leading up to 9/11. Also, there were a number of companies which resided in the towers which had access to thermitic material, either manufacturing it, or having patents on devices which could be used in accelerated demolition. (Komatsu, patented thermite demolition device 1996; Morrison Knudsen did hundreds of demolition projects for army corps of engineers.) Some of these demolition-related companies were purchased by tenants of the impact zones of the WTC towers. Yes, the impact zones themselves, including Bush relatives and friends like Craig Stapleton and L. Paul Bremer.

        As far as the collapses of the towers, one video clearly shows that the top compresses significantly before the floors below the crash zone begin to collapse. This indicates something that defies Newton's laws if the collapse was purely and only gravity driven.

        I agree, as far as the towers are concerned, the collapses appear to start at the points of impact. And I understand your argument that the steel structure below was unable to withstand the pile driver effect of thousands of tons pushing down in the accelerating momentum. That's what sold me on the Bush "conspiracy theory" for 10 years.

        Perhaps the most unnoticed aspect, though, is that the collapsing building seemed to offer zero (a vital point, here) -- zero -- resistance. If the top of a building falls and drops 2-3 stories, you'd think that the impact would at least cause a jolt that would visibly slow the oncoming pile driver. In fact, each floor should've offered a modicum of resistance to cause a visible hesitation.

        The lack of this hesitation indicates that each floor offered close to zero resistance. That seems unreal to me.

        Also, the work done by the falling buildings seems incompatible with the original potential energy (PE) available. More than half of the PE available in the towers was used in the acceleration of the collapse (PE converted to kinetic, or KE). That left less than half for completely pulverizing over half a million metric tons of concrete into a fine, powdery dust, blowing that dust over all of Lower Manhattan, bending or breaking all of the undamaged steel beams and heating up the dust as felt by nearby witnesses who thought they might be in danger of burning alive. All of that energy, the falling, the pulverizing, the blowing, the bending and breaking and the heating -- had to come from somewhere.

        In the case of Building 7, with something like 8 floors in perfect free-fall as admitted by NIST, those 8 floors offered exactly zero resistance. That's impossible without that resistance being taken out by magic, an Act of God, Scotty's Star Trek beaming, or explosives/cutter charges. The easiest explanation seems to be explosives/cutter charges. Are there other possibilities? There might be, but NIST was baffled enough to say they could not explain this. Why not explore the possibility of explosives and thermitic cutter charges? Originally, they said they did not even check. Oops!

    8. lone77star profile image76
      lone77starposted 11 years ago


      How can so many Americans be so dense as to think that the Government lying to them is okay. Is it ever?

      What makes it even harder to fathom is that so many of those lies result in thousands of deaths to Americans, and hundreds of thousands of deaths to men, women and children in other countries? Most of those victims of our aggression are innocent! And some of those who are fighting against us are merely freedom fighters who would like to get the invader out of their country. They could be the Thomas Jefferson and George Washington of their own country.

      Does it make invasion okay if it's America doing it to someone else? How thoroughly selfish. How thoroughly self-righteous.

      Welcome to the new "Evil Empire" -- America the Ugly.

      I love what America used to stand for, but this country has lost its way.

      Even the elections have become entirely and openly corrupt. Nationwide television showed it, if you were paying attention. Both the Demopublican and Republicrat conventions were a sham -- little more than a Corporate Party coronation to keep up the thin pretense of choice.

      Spend 10 minutes watching the following videos that show one small aspect of how the elite are dismantling America:

      RNC Scripted:

      DNC Scripted:

      And if you're up to a little humor, check out the following 5-minute video on the 9/11 lies -- a lighthearted romp through the facts and fiction of that event which has and still affects so much in our lives.


      So funny!
      (and ironic)

      1. Moderndayslave profile image59
        Moderndayslaveposted 11 years agoin reply to this
        1. lone77star profile image76
          lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, I've seen that video about a dozen times. It pillories the inanities of 9/11 quite nicely. Very funny!

    9. lone77star profile image76
      lone77starposted 11 years ago

      There is a movie looking for funding that created a pre-production trailer -- called, "Gray State."

      The producers want the film to remain entirely fiction, but they're fearful that we're already halfway there.

      I'm afraid that things like 9/11 were merely a pretext to finish the century's long job of slowly eroding the Constitution, each step looking somewhat reasonable,... until it's too late.



      Don't be fooled like the Germans 80 years ago. Patriotism isn't blindly following what the government says; it's being brave enough to ask questions and not to put up with evil when the government thinks you're not looking.

      Wake up before it's too late and the Gray State is seen out your window instead of in a movie theater.


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