Why are so many people shot and killed by police officers?

1. 82

   peoplepower73posted 8 years ago

   
   It's because of the  "Use of Force Model" that has been adopted by law enforcement from the military  Many cops across the country have been trained in this use of force model. It works like this.  A cop approaches a suspect and gives the suspect some type of order. If the suspect does not comply, the use of force is increased with each order given until it reaches the lethal level.  At that point the cop shoots to kill.  If anywhere along the escalation, the suspect complies, the use of force is stopped at that point.  The problem is anytime the cop feels his or her life or the lives of others are in danger, the escalation can be jumped to the top and the suspect is taken out to save the life's of those endangered.
   
   This works great in the combat military scenario, but not so much in the civilian setting.  That why deaf and dumb people, and the mentally ill who have been stopped by cops are killed everyday.

   replyreport
   1. 61

      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I think it is profiling subconsciously.  Residents are upset because the officers are looking at them and feel it is an invasion of their civil rights.
      
      Community policing should be a major component of densely populated, urban areas.  Police should get extra pay for coaching activities with kids.  In these poor areas, kids don't have structured activities and are out on the streets unless they are inside playing video games.  Neither is a good option.

      replyreport
2. 82

   peoplepower73posted 8 years ago

   Did this get posted?

   replyreport
   1. 80

      Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I posted this elsewhere:
      We really need to STOP with this "racism" B.S.
      In this day and age this is negative pinpointing and it needs to cease.
      Lets look at FAULTY TRAINING or lax hiring standards within the police departments. Especially in areas where there are uncooperative, belligerent, attitude-showing, disgruntled-for-whatever-reason people.
      ( Usually the poor who just can't figure out how to rectify their situations.)

      replyreport
   2. 75

      junkoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      It seems immediately after and during that required verbal command some police race through progressions to deadly force. They shoot to kill not not to stop the aggression but to kill the suspect with multiple shots. Is it fear, that makes a person shoot unarmed people? I don't know how long this use of force model has been in use but it need to be amended to reflect the realities of protecting and serving all. Police departments nation wide should purge those with big game hunter's mentalities from policing.

      replyreport
      1. 80

         Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         … or not hire those fresh out of the military

         replyreport
      2. 0

         ValKarasposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         I agree that any cop shooting people for no reason is just another criminal. However, when I hear that cops are shooting people AT RANDOM, or even for a minor traffic offence, I'll get seriously concerned. Until then, I will keep asking : Why put ourselves in a situation to have anything to do with cops? It's not even a matter of what "rights" we have  -  once when we become a suspect, but why become a suspect? After all, there are thousands and thousands of folks in any city who NEVER in their lifetime need to exercise those rights. And I mean both black and white.

         replyreport
   3. 78

      colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      You might find this Facebook page interesting.
      *  https://www.facebook.com/Killed-By-Poli … 834375343/
      
      They started keeping track of how many people are killed by police since May 1, 2013.
      
      I read on another website that on the day that Keith Scott was shot in Charlotte, there were 5 white people killed by police...but, the media only cares about reporting when blacks are shot and killed by cops (because that fits the political narrative).  Racism, is Institutional Racism.   
      *  https://therealstrategy.com/5-white-peo … idnt-hear/

      replyreport
      1. 82

         peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Colorfulone:  I bet you in almost all of those cases, the officer's were using the use of force model.  It doesn't matter whether they are black or white, they use of force model is not racists. But the people using it may be.

         replyreport
         1. 78

            colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            The Use-of-Force Continuum
            *  http://www.nij.gov/topics/law-enforceme … inuum.aspx
            
            Sure the police are trained as the government requires them to be in use of force.  They get their authority and permissions from the government.  Hey, I wouldn't want to be in a community that starts a freaking war with the cops, or anywhere within the city limits. 
            
            People are upset with the government, and the police are the visible arm of the government that people can see on a daily bases, so they get lashed out on trying to serve and protect.  Its frustration manifested. IMHO
            
            I wouldn't want to be a cop.

            replyreport
            1. 82

               peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Colorfulone:  Thanks for posting that link.

               replyreport
      2. 61

         dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Were the circumstances similar.  The officers were there to serve an arrest warrant.  We don't hear anything about the person they were looking for.  Surely they weren't there to arrest him for smoking a joint.
         
         If it were something more serious:  murder, incest, spreading a disease, etc., why bother the guy with a joint.  Was it the gun?  Did they have time to check whether or not he had a gun permit when the murderer was running out the back door.
         
         They left the scene to suit up?
         The wife can clearly be heard saying, "He's got TBI?"  It seems officers would have said, "What do you mean?"  Getting her involved may have de-escalated the situation.
         
         Tasers are considered a first option.  Since his hands were down and gun was not pointed at anyone, why not tase him.
         
         I'm sure those 5 white cases were nowhere near as meaty as this situation.  Not every shoot of a Black by police is protested.  I've never heard anyone complain about them killing a murderer.

         replyreport
3. 80

   Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

   Thanks for opening this thread! Its about time.
   
   I believe many of the police are ex-service men. When our soldiers come home, its hard for them find employment. The police force is the most natural place for them and of course the police departments welcome them with open arms.
   Maybe their military training is still too fresh in their minds.
   ?

   replyreport
4. 80

   Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

   Meandering thoughts: The real problem is that there was nothing else for these guys to do but go fight endless wars which have no resolution because its about oil and money and corruption. I feel sorry for US.
   Heaven help us.
   We should refuse to fund these wars. We should refuse to pay our taxes and we should refuse to vote with the choices that have been given to us.(Hillary should be in Jail and Donald should have been required to have SOME political background.)
   
   
   If we could get on the same page it would sure be great.
   But, alas.

   replyreport
5. 80

   Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

   A."A cop approaches a suspect and gives the suspect some type of order."
   B. "If the suspect does not comply, the use of force is increased with each order given until it reaches the lethal level."
   C. "At that point the cop shoots to KILL." 
   D. "If anywhere along the escalation, the suspect complies, the use of force (attempt to kill in effort to protect) is stopped."
   
     "…anytime the cop feels his or her life or the lives of others are in danger, the escalation can be jumped to the top
   
   and the suspect is taken out (killed) to save the life's of those ENDANGERED." 
   
   (extracted from Peoplepower 73's OP.)

   replyreport
6. 80

   Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

   It would seem that if a person values his life he would simply comply with the polce officer.  Why do they NOT?????

   replyreport
   1. 75

      junkoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Some times there is no time to comply,.if there were more time some people would not have died

      replyreport
7. 82

   peoplepower73posted 8 years ago

   Kathryn: The use of force model is part of the policies and procedures that are taught to police officers across the nation, regardless if they are fresh out of the military.  The officer in Ferguson who killed Michael Brown said he remembers going through the steps of escalation to take take him out.  That's when I became interested in this issue.
   
   There was a case where a black person pulled into a gas station and was stopped by a cop for not wearing a seat belt.  The officer told him to step out of the car.  The suspect reached back into the car to get his driver's license and the cop shot him twice once in the leg and once in the arm.  The guy was on the ground yelling why did you shoot me.  The officer said, I thought you were going for a gun.  There was no gun found.  The officer called for help.

   replyreport
   1. 80

      Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Fear for one's life is human nature.
      
      Do not reach for ANYTHING unless instructed to do so. 
      
      Once, I was ordered to sit down on the sidewalk because I dared to reach into my purse, for the same reason, before instructed. No, I was not shot, thank goodness. But I was sitting there for all to see on the sidewalk!
      
      There was also this incident: I was yelled at, called horrible names, stomped on, hair yanked back and thrown in the holding tank for five hours, (until I admitted, against my will, that it was all my fault,) for having a belligerent attitude as a self-righteous young adult one night after work in the parking lot of the local Y… what did I learn? Don't mess with these a$$holes.
      At all.
      Ever.
      I should have sued, but I did not want to pursue such negativity. I just moved on and resolved to show respect for the police no matter what.
      Is that such a hard lesson?
      Its too bad we even need police.
      But there always will be criminals, the desperate, those without a conscience. The world is not perfect.
      We just have to deal.

      replyreport
8. 88

   wildernessposted 8 years ago

   And the alternative in your world is...what?  Wait until fired at?  Wait until a cop is killed?  Tag along behind a suspect running away, begging them to stop?  Give an uncooperative suspect a $100 bill to comply? 
   
   What is YOUR method of arresting someone that doesn't want to be arrested?  (Keep in mind that allowing suspects to go free is the biggest single reason we have such high crime rates while you describe how to arrest a PCP addict waving a gun around without any shots being fired.)

   replyreport
   1. 80

      Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Give an uncooperative suspect a $100 bill to comply?
      
      Well, YES!!!!

      replyreport
   2. 82

      peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Wilderness:  I have no alternative.  I'm just stating facts.  I have no method of arresting anybody.  I just know the cops are jiggy and so are the people they stop.  I also know it is too easy for bad people to gain access to guns.  The gun people wanted more guns because it was all about protecting  themselves against tyranny and not trusting law enforcement to do their jobs.  Now there are more guns and cops get shot and killed  by protesters and terrorists.  It's quite an irony, don't you think?.

      replyreport
      1. 88

         wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Cop violence is a bad thing and must be stopped...but you have no alternative.  I trust you understand that if cops don't do their job that your own life is virtually worthless?  That the entire country will deteriorate into anarchy?
         
         But I get it - the whole thing is a call for removing guns from anyone that, at any future time, may use it to kill.  Meaning take all guns from all people, yes?  Even when your own hub shows there is no statistical correlation between gun ownership rates and murder rates you still think gun ownership must be curtailed.

         replyreport
9. 0

   ahorsebackposted 8 years ago

   Look out the big bad wolf is coming !
   
   This is ridiculous , First NO ONE is in danger of being shot by an officer that obeys the officer commands .  I am amazed that our society   has  self sabotaged  it's mentality to accept the premise that "They are out to get you ".............how foolish !  No , not foolish , downright naïve and even uneducated  ,   How media driven   have your beliefs become  ?  How blatantly  childish ?
   
   Very few people are shot by officers who are not already threatening  the lives of the people around them , family members ,  civilians and ultimately the police that are called when no one else can handle them .     I haven't checked stats on this  and good luck doing that objectively  , given our media bias , but   the Idea that there is a police war on civilians is absolutely ridiculous . If the naiveté ' of you people is this bad you need to really look at some of the encounters and criminal records of those shot .
   
   This thread is one of the most despicable of liberal ideology  ,  Perhaps None  of you have ever needed the police in an emergency and it's too bad they won't know who here is  against them    they may not come when you do !

   replyreport
   1. 80

      Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      My neighbor's son was shot and killed in our little sleepy town where there is very little crime. Everyone goes to sleep at ten. It is a town of hardworking mothers and fathers and their children who wake up every morning and go to school.  My neighbor's son was manic depressive and under a doctor's care.  He had a broken crutch and they claimed it was a weapon. They did not have to shoot him. He was a brilliant musician and a sensitive soul. My neighbor sued and WON. It happens, ahorseback.

      replyreport
   2. 82

      peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      ahorseback:  Did I say any of what you said?  I just presented how the Use of Force is implemented, nothing more nothing less. How is this thread about liberal ideology?

      replyreport
      1. 0

         ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Because you are falling right into lock step with the anti-police mentality of media ,  ivory tower socialist intellectuals , and BLM  street thugs .   How's that ?    Learn to think and decipher for yourself P.P.  , this is beneath even you  .

         replyreport
         1. 82

            peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            ahorseback:  You cannot  deny this Use of Force Method.  This is how  law enforcement has been trained, just google it.  This has nothing to do with politics.  This has to do with facts.  This is thinking for myself.  I did the research and analysis.
            
            Wilderness and ahroseback:  It's amazing how you two are putting words into my mouth that I have not said and you are reading into what I did post.

            replyreport
            1. 0

               PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Well, your position is reasonable, which makes it difficult to rebut. A favorite technique among some people here is to mischaracterize a poster's position so as to make it easier to argue against.

               replyreport
               1. 88

                  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  ?? Confusion.  I didn't find a position at all, and people even says he wasn't taking a position, and has no alternative suggestion - he's just reporting facts.
                  
                  ("Facts" which are pretty obviously false as any cop that shoots anyone while running away, failing to halt at an order to do so, will shortly be in jail.  It would take some pretty serious reasons - maybe spraying bullets and refusing to stop - to allow a cop to kill for not following orders.)

                  replyreport
                  1. 0

                     PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     In this case, ahorseback is the culprit, not you.

                     replyreport
                     1. 88

                        wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        Got it.  I think.

                        replyreport
                        1. 82

                           peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                           Wilderness:  You are right, it does take serious business for a cop to use lethal force, that's why it is at the top of the use of force escalation model.  However, it is also based on the instantaneous perception that the cops life and or others are endangered and they don't always get that right. 
                           
                           There are good cops and there are bad cops and some bad cops, just use it to be bad.  Without being in the officer's shoes, it is very difficult to judge these situations.  Where I live, Fullerton California, a deaf and dumb boy was shot to death in a park because he did not comply with the officer's commands.  I'm not saying the use of force model is right or wrong.  I'm just making people aware of it and how it used to neutralize a situation.

                           replyreport
         2. 75

            junkoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Wow! , Peoplepower its getting hot and personal here. You were almost  called a Liberal Lover.. I may be back when ahorseback cools off I never felt such anger from the gentle man.

            replyreport
            1. 82

               peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Junko:   I have, It's nothing new.  He really likes me.  He just doesn't know it.

               replyreport
               1. 75

                  junkoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  You might be right peoplepower he might like you, y'all dialog more often than he and I. ahorseback and I have disagreed but we never became disagreeable. Religion and politics can bring about heated discussions because there is one truth and many lies, one right and many wrongs. That why I stay mostly away from political forums. You are a daily Liberal Warrior-Gladiator, sticks and stones may break your bones but, words can't hurt you.

                  replyreport
            2. 0

               PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Um, horsey frequently resorts to childish stereotyping and other avoidance techniques.. We are used to it.

               replyreport
10. 0

    ahorsebackposted 8 years ago

    Those who've been around awhile , obviously not many have ,as  I remember 9 PM curfews as late as the sixties for minors  and you'd better not be out     Also  remembering guns pulled and held at  traffic stops , and physically being put against the fender of a car at a nighttime stop ,  but of course today that just doesn't fit the entitlements of our youth . That is simply against all the decency and behavior standards of "Not to my child " today ...................No matter the behavior .

    replyreport
    1. 0

       PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Isn't the subject at hand "Why are so many people shot and killed by police officers?"  What does your comment have to do with that?

       replyreport
       1. 0

          ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Because I'm sure that other than behavioral changes in the entitled public and more criminal records walking on the street , and a greater and more diverse population , shootings are only proportionate to population growth.     Except for civilians shooting cops , that's probably skyrocketing .

          replyreport
          1. 0

             PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

             You're sure?  Based on what?  Actual statistical data?

             replyreport
    2. 61

       dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       I remember Chicago having a curfew.  A mean looking officer looked in our faces and pointed and said, "HOME!"

       replyreport