Some people think Trump means nothing but trouble. His supporters think he means change for the better. I think he simply 'means' that the United States is a very divided nation.
I'm not so sure most of us realized that we were so divided, before. Sure, we knew that there were 'extremist' conservatives among us - but they were so far removed from actively-diverse urban centers, that we ignored them and chalked their bible belt ideals up as ignorant and irrelevant.
As a result, we didn't really see conservative opinions to have much merit - until not only the country became divided, but conservatives, themselves. The damage Trump has done to -
not just friends & families - but Christian/spiritual relationships in churches across the nation, has been enormous - DRAWING 'those types' of conservatives who reject Trump CLOSER to moderate ideals.
I'd like to think liberals & centrists are learning from them and embracing them - but I don't think our reaction to them (and them to us) has been very clear. Its like its created a potentially-new conservative/liberal camaraderie (that is kind of in jeopardy while 'the left' continues to blame every conservative for Trump - don't forget #NeverTrump).
Trump & Co. seem to have been a destructive force among us in so many various ways - but is it really a BAD thing? Is destruction not the 1st step in creation? Didn't America need a shake-up from the stalemate? Is there any hope for America at all? Are we doomed to fail, succeed or something else...
I don't see Trump & company as destroying anything. Rather it is our own divisiveness as a people, the almost complete unwillingness to accept anything but our own attitudes, philosophy and goals, that has done the damage.
This is not democracy in action then, but self-centered ego demanding that only the speaker is right - that any different philosophy or thought is wrong. And yes, it needs destroyed; democracy depends on compromise and working together to solve problems and the lack of it is costing us dearly.
You have a fantastic picture that accompanies this, that tells exactly why the people that voted for Trump voted for him.
30 years ago, America had a far larger 'Middle Class, or Working Class, or Blue Collar class' in proportion to the population than it does today.
Of those people, tens of millions are struggling far more now than they did 20, 25, 30 years ago. Some have lost their pensions, some have lost their jobs, some have lost their homes. All are struggling to get by.
The ACA doesn't help them, it made it worse for them. For every person who was helped by the ACA, there is likely two or three who are now paying triple what they were just a few years ago for Insurance, other have such high deductibles they might as well not have insurance, others are worse off still and they don't even bother with insurance anymore.
The housing/mortgage crash, which coincided with the Wall St. drop (not really a crash), wiped out many people's retirements, savings, along with the millions of jobs lost at that time.
Taxes keep rising, cost of living keeps rising, but paychecks keep shrinking, benefits keep disappearing, making a living gets harder and harder.
But people are not dumb, they see 'immigrants' coming into the U.S. and being given welfare, housing, SNAP, and now healthcare... but many cannot provide those things for themselves or their children.
They drive by a new development under construction, and see hundreds of 'immigrants' working there (and anyone who thinks an American construction worker wouldn't take those jobs in a heart beat is in total denial of reality, or totally ignorant of it)... they might even be curious enough to stop and try and talk to them, only to find no one on the site speaks English, or is willing to speak it to them.
Trump was the only NON-ESTABLISHMENT choice the people had, or have ever had in the last quarter century. He was the only way these tens of millions of Americans that have suffered for decades now, because of NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO, open borders, and just law after law, act after act from D.C. that screws them over, again and again.
Trump was the only way for 'working America' to give the F.U. to D.C.
Trump was the only 'hope' these people have had for change for the better.
Some of them may have bought into the 'Hope and Change' Obama promised, but the only change the Obama Administration brought to them, was more trade agreements that cost America jobs, an even more open border which promised free welfare and housing to anyone who could get here.
But its not Obama that was the fault or cause (though things moved at a faster pace under him than the previous 40+ Presidents before him) this has gone on almost 30 years now uninterrupted until now.
The passage of NAFTA into law, and the alteration of the Community Reinvestment Act, and the Glass Steagall Act, all which occurred under Clinton was where the great amount of damage was done that we suffer with even today.
I am not sure any of the problems we face today, be it immigration, loss of jobs, poisoned foods, skyrocketing health costs, would exist if not for those laws and acts passed during the Clinton era.
Well said. The philosophy of the American Government being responsible for individual problems, foreign or domestic, has created untold damage and harm. People, recognizing that fact or not, are tired of the "status quo" and took their vote elsewhere.
The only strange thing is why so many people deny this, even as they watched it happen.
"Many people" would be those in the media, and in D.C. and on college campuses, but not the people who voted for Trump.
Unfortunately, many people still don't understand that the media is the voice for D.C. and for the Corporations that control D.C. ... the wealthiest man in America owns the Washington Post... the wealthiest man in Mexico owns the NY Times. ... My God! What does it take for people to see the OBVIOUS!
CNN, MSNBC, ABC (even Fox news as the purge continues to clean out those who speak a semblance of the truth)... look at who owns them, they aren't out to inform the people of what is going on, their jobs are to deceive the people, pull the wool over their eyes, to make them hate the people who would stand up and fight for them, and love the people who would enslave them.
Look at our government agencies that are supposed to protect us. Look at who runs the FDA ...Michael R. Taylor, do some research on him and tell me he isn't the Fox in charge of the Hen house.
How about who is in charge of the Securities and Exchange Commission, Mary Schapiro, like Mr. Taylor, has been in the SEC for decades, the same handful of people have been lording over these 'protective' agencies for decades. Named Acting Chairman by President Bill Clinton in 1993 and then Chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, where she served until 1996. And then back to the SEC, she's been there since Bush Sr.
We have Congressmen & women that have held office & people who have been running the FDA, SEC, etc, for 30 YEARS!
If you don't like the direction things have been going the last quarter century, if you don't like the direction the country is going in now. There is your problem.
No matter what you think of Trump, he ISN'T the problem, he hasn't been there long enough to be the problem. But he got one thing 100% right... the Swamp needs to be drained, or all of us who aren't part of the 'intellectual elite' and D.C. beltway are going to be royally screwed, because the whole nation is going to end up royally screwed, all of us unable to escape to a foreign nation or worth the many millions needed to stay above the economic chaos the other 90% will be stuck living in... screwed.
Because people can't look past the BS that is Dem or Rep, look past their petty pet causes, look beyond today's spoonfed media story to realize that our system is broken, and Dem or Rep don't mean a damned bit of difference in D.C. ... Waters, Pelosi, McCain, Graham, etc. they have made themselves into millionaires selling out our interests, America's interests. THEY are the problem regardless of what 'Party' they claim to belong to.
You and I have had this discussion before; but for some reason, you don't understand...
I don't disagree with most of what you've said; but I DO disagree with using the person you have chosen for the reasons that are evident in this country now - Trump does not unite people, nor is he interested AT ALL in 'we the people'. The ONLY people that man is interested in are the people he still holds rallies for buttpats for - so he can continue to keep his ego good and stroked.
Shall I describe how Obama was elected again? I really think most people need to refresh their memories... He was elected for the EXACT SAME REASONS as Trump was. He was SUPPOSED to be a 'centristic' leader meant to enforce BIPARTISANSHIP instead of the sh*tty 'right/left' crap that had previously been going on. Which, he did - as successfully as possible, which is to say that he had MUCH resistance of EVERY KIND of bipartisan policies from 'the right' who obviously sees this country as belonging ONLY to people who think like them. They label every other citizen 'unAmerican'.
Either Bernie OR Trump would have caused a ball of chaos to burn in this country - 100% free everything guy against pro-corporations-are-people types. BOTH kinds of candidates were 'slaps in the face' to extremists among us.
What all you T-fans SHOULD have done was went out and FOUND a decent, semi-educated & experienced mouthpiece (like Bernie, or the Dems who wanted change with Obama did) for YOUR 'movement' - but, you didn't. You latched onto an as*hole cuz his egomania impressed you somehow. He started running for pres as a marketing stunt for his reality show; and accidentaly got elected by PURPOSEFULLY saying things that would have turned most people off. Trump didn't WANT to actually become potus! Sheesh, at one point - he seemed to be TRYING to shake his crazy supporters off, LoL!
And now he's in there - OVERWHELMED by inexperience, surrounded by sharks and working harder than he has ever had to work in his life. He's not a young man anymore, and he's damn tired. Already.
While I will admit that Trump seems to be doing a wonderful job as a destructive force - which I obviously do not consider to be a bad thing - the only reason I can see for someone voting for him is out of spite (feel the misogynistic Bern!), ignorance (how people can't tell when Trump is manipulating them is amazing - its not like he hides it at all) or plain 'ol alt-right hate.
I know most Trump supporters meant well and were hoping for a whole lot more, but you simply can't do anything but try to add more sugar to someone as sour as Trump. He's too acidic to be a uniting force - and that is what this country needs. #NeverTrumpers knew that.
Having said all that... Trump causing people to talk to each other & unite some extremes among us is a good thing. He's not all bad, just not the savior his supporters thought he would be.
"Trump does not unite people, nor is he interested AT ALL in 'we the people'."
Lets leave this aside for now, and let time prove it out, but let us both admit that the MSMedia, and the corrupt D.C. long tenured politicians are out to destroy him (he does prod them into it often).
"Obama was elected again? I really think most people need to refresh their memories... He was elected for the EXACT SAME REASONS as Trump was."
I agree that was a large part of it, he told the people what they wanted/needed to hear, he embodied their hopes, and to this day many cannot see beyond what they hoped and believed him to be.
Here is where you and I really disagree, you think the President has some control over what is going on in D.C. and the power to change the direction of the country.
Where I realize that the President, white or black, Dem or Rep, has his hands tied, and that the corruption in D.C. is near impossible to counter at this time, through 'normal' political processes and efforts.
I have looked a long time for some form of article, or documentary that can explain this in easily understood and undeniable fashion, I think I may have found something... I ask that you take the time to watch this, as it explains much (not all, it doesn't so far as it could) of what occurred and why.
And why things have stagnated, or gotten worse, at every turn and decision made in D.C. for the last quarter century.
From 12 minutes on, it really gets to the heart of it for us Americans.
The question requires answering on a more humanitarian level and on a global standpoint. There is so much control within the political arena that to define the global issue to two political parties can be shallow. But in essence, a division is what creates dissension and while that runs peoples lives, many more events can take place without the conscious intelligent understanding of the common man. The political game creates a distraction while their agendas are achieved. The divide of America is systemic of a larger global problem of greed, control and the withholding of individual and civil liberty for the benefit of a few.
Materialistic reductionism is the foundational plot of Ahriman. Divide and conquer, and give no man the opportunity to find his inner resources.
I always give my reply before reading those of others - I believe mine will be in "the middle path" - especially today since I will to have time to read the others anyway.
The only way for any change to come to anything is for what has been to be destroyed and especially true with today's government. Jeremiah 1:10, a "prophetic type" of the second Christ who, per the interpretation of Genesis 49:8-12, shall come to this nation reads, "See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant" so Trump is who the messiah shall replace and do what the foregoing prophecy directs.
The destruction of the Unconstitutional U.S. government can only happen when enough people have been disillusioned with what is happening. The "Babbling" Trump without any knowledge of how to "pretend" - as all other presidents has - to govern a nation has given We The People and the entire world cause to want a change to come.
The way the U.S. got here was We The People completely ignore the Constitution intent of "form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity" gave us the power over government (Articles 1.2.2, 1.3.3, 2.4, 6 and Amendment 10) and allow the governors to run unrestrained by We The Governed People with power over our "Trustees".
In that light Trump is the reflection of what We the People have allowed this nation to come to for the fulfillment of this nation's destiny to be allowed to manifest.
I'd have to agree with wilderness on what needs to be done. I see Trump as a reflection of what America has become. A nation of delusional people who insist you believe what they say for no better reason than that they said it; no matter what evidence exists to the contrary. This is probably due to many of the reasons wilderness pointed out.
I have absolutely no idea what the question has to do with spiritual health. Although, this disconnect with reality we are experiencing probably isn't too good for mental health.
Reality is a reflection of people's spiritual health (our whole health - yeah, I probably should have defined that better)... obviously, the 'spirit' or 'consciousness' of America is very divided, as I've said.
People can blame the right or the left, but our leaders reflect the health of our society AS A WHOLE. With all the accusations being flung around while very FEW people are taking responsiblity for the results of this mess (that we have collectively caused - ALL of us) - it stands to reason that things are improving incredibly slowly, if at all.
Well, I don't see things as improving. But, maybe they are. They'll have to come to a head before we can affect positive change and I don't think it would be a stretch of the imagination to consider current circumstances as moving in the direction of coming to a head.
You see America as a Nation of delusional people LTL?
If you were to actually focus on this thread alone, you would see that is so far from the truth.
This Nation was in dire straits coming off of eight years of the Transformer. A delusional Nation would have carried on with a Bernie or another Clinton, but an engaged Nation sought better. This Nation, though enraged, managed to keep our faculties about us, as we entered into a very sharp turn. Yes we would be taking a big chance with an outsider, but at least the turn would bring us back to a familiar place.
I took the big chance voting for the outsider as you did. But, yes. If you look at relationships and interactions, as a whole, from top to bottom (if you have had similar experiences as I have) you see that truth is pretty fluid in the individual mind and the individual mind attempts to create the same fluidity, through persuasion, in the mind of the individual they are speaking to. I listen to people talk and have to wonder (almost on a daily basis) if they understand how difficult it would be for anyone who was familiar with the history leading up to the comment to believe the account of events being given. I don't blame the individual because we have been exposed to convenient lies to bolster the truth coming from all media outlets, whether they be news or entertainment; advertising which we are bombarded with on a daily basis plays the same games. Our government does the same. Being exposed to this from birth to adulthood has taken its toll on the population.
I am not saying that this is the only cause of our present disconnect but I do believe that once we realize how pervasive it is within our government and how detrimental that has been, and continues to be, for our fiscal health; and how it has eroded all of the principles this nation was built on, we will wake up and come together as a people. Or not.
Our institutions have all become corrupt? HOW? Our doctors do not destroy health, (but they could do a better job as far as holistic considerations. Many people, in fact, would disagree that our doctors destroy health.) But, the government took over health care. Lawyers do not destroy justice unless they bend the laws toward their own (progressive/elitest) bias and convince their (progressive/elitist) judges. Universities are not destroying knowledge, but (progressive/elitist) professors are taking liberty with the truth and distorting it according to their own biases. Governments do not destroy freedom unless the people have lost their power. The press destroys information by bending the truth toward destructive (progressive/elitist) perspectives and biases. Religion does not destroy morals but those with religious authority focus on illusions instead of realities. Our banks now destroy the economy … How? again?
Are the banks in charge of printing money? ?
Who IS in charge of printing money?
T H E (progressive/elitist) G O V E R N M E N T
"Because people can't look past the BS that is Dem or Rep, look past their petty pet causes, look beyond today's spoonfed media story to realize that our system is broken, and Dem or Rep don't mean a damned bit of difference in D.C. ... Waters, Pelosi, McCain, Graham, etc. they have made themselves into millionaires selling out our interests, America's interests. THEY are the problem regardless of what 'Party' they claim to belong to."
+1 Thanks, Ken.
Would you agree with the statement below?
There are those (progressives/elitests) who love the government's power over the people's power.
I think there are a great many people, who have their hearts in the right places, and who believe in things that SHOULD be.
And so, when a politician puts the (D) label next to their name, and goes out and says all the right things (be it Hillary or Obama or who-ever) people WANT to support them, they WANT to believe them.
Maybe its because accepting the reality is a damned scary thing that MANY people are not well suited to handle, it is easier just to accept that when the media calls Trump worse than Hitler, that they are telling the truth, and that there must be something terribly wrong with anyone who would support him.
The alternative is accepting the fact that just about all the news/media sources in America are deliberately lying to you. That the Ivory Institutions are feeding you garbage, and that the politicians in D.C. that promised to bring you change and a better world, are selling you and your country out for their own greed and corrupt interests.
D.C. is controlled by the same people today, that it was 25 years ago. With just a few changes, as age and time have required. Clinton, Bush, Obama... irrelevant... things were being marched along by those in Congress and key positions throughout the halls of Washington that once set into effect were not altered by any Presidency since.
Yes. Thank you.
Can you elucidate? "D.C. is controlled by the same people today, that it was 25 years ago. With just a few changes, as age and time have required. Clinton, Bush, Obama... irrelevant... things were being marched along by those in Congress and key positions throughout the halls of Washington that once set into effect were not altered by any Presidency since."
Why have the parties morphed into a uni-party?
Do you think President Trump can overcome and "trump" this "uni-party" without the support of the people?
What will happen to America if Trump cannot succeed in the White House????
Is It CURTAINS for US? !!!!
Will we become like VENEZUELA?
The election of Trump was the People stepping up to remind the Gov that we are, in fact, a Republic. Whether that Truth is liked by all or not, is irrelevant.
The "destructive force" isn't Trump, it is the establishment! Those that believe they've earned their stripes and are geared up for the long haul. They are putting up a mighty fight right now.
We'll succeed, but only if the People's resolve is stronger than theirs.
Their resolve will increase as proper understanding and awareness increases.
We need to get on board with what the founding Fathers put forth in The Constitution. The Federalist Papers provide the proper awareness and understanding of the basis of The Constitution, which protects the rights of all of us. Unfortunately, the way it was written, for the times, is very difficult to understand in our day. Thankfully, some do try. But not enough.
The people's resolve appears to need to include Trump in their list of people they need to remind this is a Republic. Trump is appearing to be little better than the forces we are fed up with.
Abwilliams, you are generally too "Right" for my perspective. And that's saying something, since I am also a small business restaurant owner.
But, you pretty much nailed this one, Except...I believe there is merit in the value of experience of governmental representation. Let the voter beware. There is value in understanding the game. It's almost like having a "ringer" in a sports game. Pres. Trump is our 'wildcard'. Now, if we can just get a similarly motivated legislature we might have a chance.
I think Michael Moore said it best... "'He is the human Molotov Cocktail they've been waiting for"
And by 'they', he meant the tens of millions of Americans that feel disenfranchised with their country and the direction it has pursued for the past quarter century.
The Democrats who used to believe that the Dem Party stood for the workers, the American Middle Class, but who feel cast aside or cast out by a Dem party that acts these days as if they are a nuisance.
The Independents who just wanted to be able to go to work, have a decent life, and be left alone, but got hit with the Mortgage crisis, and the ACA that was neither affordable or caring, ... or worse watched their jobs ship overseas because of one bad trade agreement after another.
And the Republicans, well enough of them, who are either fed up as well, or just so far to the right that they don't care, just so long as it isn't the left controlling things.
There are fundamental forces at work in the US that you do not see in the rest of the developed world. The most corrosive is the loss of trust in pretty much everything and everyone.
This is accelerating and it is genuinely scary. It could turn into a national suicide.
http://worldhappiness.report/wp-content … 17-Ch7.pdf
It is alarming... People like Kathryn & Ken who want to blame everything on gullible people being influenced by left-wing media have the issue good and diverted.
It doesn't MATTER what the media is printing, PEOPLE should be able to read something and be able to TRUST what is being said. However, we've forgotten what Free Speech was really about - being able to complain about our government or jobs without fear of persecution or punishment. It was NEVER about 'being able to say anything' you want to cause riots or promote hate, etc. Sure we have libel laws, but they are both hard & expensive to enforce - so they are very seldom prosecuted.
The fact that tabloids & fake news sites exist says absolutely NOTHING about our beloved concept of Free Speech and what it was meant for.
We have lived in an economy based largely on marketing for so long - how many ways can we find to convince people to buy this product; or show that our left/right opinion is THE correct one that they should CHOOSE...
Very few things come at us in an honest way, anymore - and we all know it. the link in the comment above certainly proves that. How can we trust anyone - even Trump fans?
The fact that you trust him so emphatically is what scares the rest of us - because he is OBVIOUSLY not a trustworthy person and wasn't long before he was elected. He has a long history of being a devious & notorious businessman. We can't trust him - even if we didn't know about his past, just based his 'untrustworthiness' in his twitter rants, he isn't trustworthy!
Which means, we really can't trust anyone... not even the people around us since we have all been pitted against each other to implode.
Why would the uni-political parties do this? Because it is PROFITABLE for them in the end - for THEM, not us. It is also why they rarely succeed at anything - because 'getting things in order' lowers costs and streamlines production; and THAT would mean someone politically (or corporately) important would get less money or even have their job cut.
I am so tired of being called unAmerican and unInterested and unInformed when the deepening of the divides has been OBVIOUSLY intentional.
If we would all put down our weapons (and dang, aren't both sides LOADED!) - we would start accomplishing something as a country. But, that isn't what the parties want - cuz it isn't good for the ECONOMY of the country. Peace isn't destructive to need any expensive 'reconstructing'.
I want to blame the left?
I thought my blame went around fairly equally, McCain is not a Dem, Graham is not a Dem. When I say 'Clinton, Bush, Obama, it doesn't matter' ... what exactly do you think that entails?
Where things began to really go wrong WAS under Clinton, with NAFTA, the Glass Steagall Act, etc. but it wasn't the Clintons alone responsible for it, there were plenty of Politicians in the House and Senate that are STILL there today, while others only recently departed, who are even more responsible for our continued strife and decline.
Not all the facts or reasons are there, but plenty of them are.
And while those were produced almost a decade ago, the same affliction that gripped D.C. then, still has hold now.
It really is a matter of Taxation as it has always been. I say NO TAXATION allowed! Then we'll all get along.
R I G H T ??? !!! ?
We have to be taxed, Kathryn.
to provide for defense of the nation and parks and stuff.
There is no stopping that floodgate once it is opened, it seems.
How can greed be stopped?
Realize the reality of abundance?
No its not greed for money.
It is lust for power.
Power for oneself is addicting when you don't know the joy of enabling others to have power.
It does come down to a spiritual dilemma: A lack of logic-tempored love.
Following The Golden Rule is a good start. Those rich elites and progressives are not following it ...
Nobody on the left can comprehend Trump's appeal. His base support is strong and growing. The left only sees the flaws in the United States and justifies saying horrible things about it. Conservatives feel pride in the United States, have moved on from the past and are proud of being a US citizen. The left panders to anyone who hates the United States, its values and its sovereignty. People on the left say Trump lies, but supported Hillary who is a proven pathological liar. They attack whatever Donald Trump does, while protecting some of the most politically corrupt individuals in the history of the United States like Hillary and those who served under Obama. The left appears to have double standards and be hypocritical. We are divided. One side strongly supports the United States, the other supports an agenda of appeasement to anyone in the world who would seek to take advantage of the United States. The stock market is up, illegal immigration is way down and the business killing regulations of the Obama era are slow being eliminated. In order to beat Trump, the left would have to appeal to someone like me. I see nothing on the left except children who throw fits when the don't get what they want, are unable to engage in an intelligent conversation without personal attacks, perpetuate lies and more. No other president has endured this kind of attacks from the press, and he keeps going. Sorry, you on the left have nothing to offer those of us who love our country, think America should come first, being a US citizen should get you better treatment than an illegal alien and hope the left some day evolves into something that not so easy to ignore because of their behavior. I don't see that day coming any time soon.
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