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Who is the target audience for this commercial?

  1. dianetrotter profile image74
    dianetrotterposted 8 days ago

    https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13734129_f520.jpg
    What was intended when this commercial was created?  What do they expect Dove to do?

    1. Ivan Tod profile image61
      Ivan Todposted 7 days agoin reply to this

      Hey Diane,
      being well versed in propaganda and thought control techniques, I would say that this ad is intended for all women. I'll explain;

      First off there is only one real constant in the ad...White superiority, which is immediately established numerically...2 out of the four are white while the other two are of differing non-white color. Then, the superiority message is further projected when the black woman is turned white, insinuating that black women want to be white, and in continuing the racist/bigoted message, the white woman reveals, by removing her "outer cover", that hispanic women are "almost" white but not quite and should want to be white as well. Although women of color can never BE white, they should emulate whites or "pretend" to be white by using "white" products. The overall message being that white is better.

      Finally, the message TO white women is that they are superior to women of color as the ad seems to depict happiness on the part of the women of color at having the ability to emulate or "be like" white women, and the white woman shows her approval of the women of color for enacting said emulation.

      By the way, the ad that was shown on the news this morning showed only the black woman turning into a white woman within the four frames. I guess they were testing the waters with that one before they decided to go with the new one that had three different women. Either way it's blatant racism and bigotry. You can get arrested if you shout out racial slurs in public but it's perfectly okay for a major corporation to present obviously racist/bigoted ideas and ask you to pay for them by buying their products...Go figure.

      1. dianetrotter profile image74
        dianetrotterposted 7 days agoin reply to this

        Hi Ivan, I tried to copy the ad you are talking about but the graphic didn't show well enough.  You looked at this one much closer than I did.  Great analysis!

        When I first saw the original one, I was looking at it as 4 different people.  There was no sound so I was trying to understand the point.  Then when I realized that the Dove was supposed to "wash" off the Black, I thought, "How mean and assuming!"

        I can see that a person might come up with the concept; however, it had to be approved by some higher level I would think.  I can't understand how it got by them.

        Thanks Ivan!

    2. MizBejabbers profile image87
      MizBejabbersposted 7 days agoin reply to this

      I think it takes a really evil mind to interpret this commercial as racist. I'm a former ad writer, and the point of advertising is to sell the product. We used to have a saying, and I'll bet the advertising industry still does, "everybody's money is  one color, "green."

      I think they used two white women, a black and an Hispanic to include all races  whose "green" they solicit. There are two white women because at one time there were more white people than people of color in this country. Maybe the alternation of the ladies' skin tones was unfortunate, but it was the more artistic. This may not be the case now, and the ad writer may have been lackadaisical in his research. If so, I'll bet he regrets it now. I saw the commercial and it never entered my evil "white privileged" mind that it was indicating that a woman of color would envy a white woman and use this product to turn her white. What did enter my mind was that the ad was trying to reach a larger audience than just white consumers.

      Years ago, the industry emphasized that there were cosmetic products made especially for "women of color" because they had different needs from white women. I don't think this is true because skin is skin, but I think it was a marketing ploy to let darker skinned women know that their product needs were being met. Today I believe the idea is to mainstream to women of all races, just like advertisers are now using "special needs" children to try to mainstream them with normal children.

      I wish people would stop witch hunting in every corner. Shame on evil minded persons for trying to stir up more controversy in an already controversial world. It is this very kind of thinking that creates dissension and keeps racial bigotry aflame in this country. As the song goes "give peace a chance."

      1. dianetrotter profile image74
        dianetrotterposted 7 days agoin reply to this

        If it were 4 pictures of different women, in the same pose or in different poses, it could show diversity.

        The pictures seem to be chronological in stages of undress. 

        There are still products for women of color.  Most Black women don't have a problem of too much oil in their hair.  We must add oil.  Foundation for the face should be closest to the person's skin color.  There are products for which targeting needs is very appropriate.

        1. MizBejabbers profile image87
          MizBejabbersposted 7 days agoin reply to this

          I don't see that because then the white woman bottom left would be turning Hispanic bottom right in that interpretation. That is unless you are going strictly clockwise, which is a below the Equator thing. In the Northern hemisphere, water flows counterclockwise down a drain, not  clockwise. This would take a real stretch of one's imagination. I think Ivan was really stretching.

      2. shanmarie profile image77
        shanmarieposted 7 days agoin reply to this

        When I first saw this ad, it was in motion and quickly alternating between these women taking off their shirts. I have no idea why they were undressing, but my thoughts were nowhere near assuming they had some malicious message. It doesn't make sense for advertising to purposely offend a large customer base. I took it that their intended message was that this product is great for all skin types, tones, etc.

        1. MizBejabbers profile image87
          MizBejabbersposted 7 days agoin reply to this

          Me too, I think it's a really stupid commercial anyway you view it.

          1. shanmarie profile image77
            shanmarieposted 7 days agoin reply to this

            Yep.

      3. jonnycomelately profile image87
        jonnycomelatelyposted 7 days agoin reply to this

        But there are not 2 "white" women.  Top right and bottom left are pics of the same lady.  Bottom left, that smile does not seem genuine.
        The lady top left looks very happy.
        Finally, what we like to call a "white" skin is nothing of the sort.  We are varying shades of grey, with blood below the skin adding to pink.
        And we are very much a minority.  Most people of the world have a darker version of skin, so it's time we got used to this fact and got to know at least a few of them personally.  Make friends not enemies.

        1. Ivan Tod profile image61
          Ivan Todposted 7 days agoin reply to this

          "But there are not 2 "white" women.  Top right and bottom left are pics of the same lady."

          There's a reason for that. By using the same white woman in both pics, the ad is saying that diversity is not desirable and by using said products the lesser races can fit in. At any rate, the fact of the numerical superiority remains; 2 white, one black, one hispanic, to which there is much gall applied in consideration of the fact that the so-called "minority" community now outnumbers whites in America.

          "Make friends not enemies."

          I agree...

      4. Ivan Tod profile image61
        Ivan Todposted 7 days agoin reply to this

        "I think it takes a really evil mind to interpret this commercial as racist."

        Or an extremely naive one to NOT see it as racist.

        "I think they used two white women, a black and an Hispanic to include all races  whose "green" they solicit."

        So, by that reasoning there must only be three races of people who Dove thinks can by their product? And if what you say is correct, why the racial disproportion?

        "There are two white women because at one time there were more white people than people of color in this country. "

        And that has what to do with the fact that the ad was made recently?

        "Maybe the alternation of the ladies' skin tones was unfortunate, but it was the more artistic. "

        Firstly, multi-million dollar advertising agencies don't make "unfortunate" decisions...Their livelyhood depends on not making such mistakes. Secondly, Dove executives approved the ad in order for it to be aired and, thirdly, what is it about the white numerical superiority or "turning white" that you find "artistic"?

        "I saw the commercial and it never entered my evil "white privileged" mind that it was indicating that a woman of color would envy a white woman and use this product to turn her white."

        That's probably because you ARE white and priviledged and have become accustomed to such. And like I said earlier, the original ad was strictly of a black woman who takes her shirt off and a white woman has replaced her. If that is not racist then there is no such thing as racism. The ad with two frames white woman, one frame a black woman and one frame a hispanic woman is simply the softer version of the same idea.

        "just like advertisers are now using "special needs" children to try to mainstream them with normal children."

        No, advertisers "use" special needs children simply to imply a non-existant compassion by the company in order to capitalize on a once undeveloped market. Disabled and sick kids are the new "money machine" in today's corporate America.

        "It is this very kind of thinking that creates dissension and keeps racial bigotry aflame in this country."

        Where there is smoke there is fire. In this case a black woman being magically transformed into a white woman is the smoke...And the fire is the racism hidden behind the scene. And in reality racial bigotry was, is and always will be alive and well in America regardless of whether or not some people expose it when they see it and whether or not some refuse to see it at all. The advertising agency responsible created a racist themed ad that lessens women of color and the manufacturer of Dove products was in collusion with the ad company as they did review and subsequently approved the advertisement knowing full well it might generate a negative response from trouble making "witch-hunters". The young black woman has herself said that she was asked if she had a problem with the message and out of her desire to get paid she said she did not have a problem with it. Once paid though, her additude and response to the ad made a 180 degree turn around, which is part of the problem...People putting aside their self-respect and dignity for a dollar. But then again, that would seem to be the gist of the ad itself, wouldn't it...Go along to get along.

        1. dianetrotter profile image74
          dianetrotterposted 7 days agoin reply to this

          Remember Mary J. Blige and the KFC!

          Lola Ogunyemi is not an American.  She is Nigerian.  She doesn't have our history and is unable to relate.

          A woman featured in a controversial Dove ad says the spot is being misinterpreted.

          Lola Ogunyemi, a black woman, wrote Tuesday in the Guardian that she agreed with the company's decision to apologize for its ad, which was seen by many as racially insensitive.
          But she also said Dove should have defended its creative vision.
          "I feel the public was justified in their initial outrage," she said. "Having said that, I can also see that a lot has been left out."

          http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/10/media/d … -responds/

          "A lot was left out" ... hmmmm!

          1. Ivan Tod profile image61
            Ivan Todposted 7 days agoin reply to this

            Yes, I do! It's just one more example of all that "non-existent" racist bigotry. In actuality, if one thinks deeply enough about it, Mary J.'s "shout over chicken" is just another example of the "go along to get along" mind game played out in America. It tells me that if someone of her stature can succumb to it what chance did the impressionable young black woman in the Dove ad have?

            1. dianetrotter profile image74
              dianetrotterposted 7 days agoin reply to this

              True!

              It is interesting that this young lady is Nigerian.  I wonder what her environment has and whether or not she has ever been to the US.

    3. jo miller profile image85
      jo millerposted 5 days agoin reply to this

      I've never seen this ad or heard of it before, but what I see here is a black woman taking off her shirt to become white, then a white woman taking off her shirt to become Hispanic, and the cycle. I suppose. will continue. It seems a little silly, but other than that I don't see the offensiveness, but then I'm not black, so I want to hear your concerns.  Suppose the order had been reversed and the white woman had taken off her shirt to become black, etc.  Would you still have been offended?  And should the order make any difference?

      1. dianetrotter profile image74
        dianetrotterposted 5 days agoin reply to this

        Hi Jo!  I wrote my response to you under Ivan.

    4. dianetrotter profile image74
      dianetrotterposted 5 days agoin reply to this

      This is not a commercial; however, it deals with perception.  Couple got prison time for terrorizing a 9 year old Black kid's birthday party.  It was a 9 year old boy.  What was their intent?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJRxkAOIv9E

    5. dianetrotter profile image74
      dianetrotterposted 35 hours agoin reply to this

      Advertisement is for the purpose of attracting buyers and increasing sales.

      Target audience:  Black women?  Black women who want to be white?  Anyone who wants lighter skin?

      Based on how I phrased the question, would not target audience be a more reasonable point of discussion?

      Surely, Dove didn't want to p*ss anyone off.  Maybe they thinkk all women desire to have lighter skin?

      Do all women desire to have lighter skin?  Can it be discussed without bringing in the racial element?

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 32 hours agoin reply to this

        Amazon ads:
        Ethnic Hair Shampoo for Thick and Curly Hair - Best Shampoo for African American Hair - Sulfate-free Natural Oil Treatment w/ Avocado Oil for Men & Women – Ph Balanced & USA Made By Honeydew Products

        Virgin Hair Fertilizer Shampoo | African American Hair Shampoo | Rapid Hair Growth | Helps Reduce Breakage, Dry Scalp and Dandruff | Natural Hair Product Contains Jojoba Seed Oil, Honey Extract, Aloe Vera Extract, T...

        Jergens BB Body Cream for Lighter Skin Tones, 7.5 Ounce

        sunscreen that feels silky soft for individuals with lighter to fair skin tones

        foundation powders for contouring tan to deep skin tones and three...

        Ads everywhere dedicated to dark, light or in between skin colors...but try as I might, could find no soap that will change a black woman into a white one.  In particular, all soaps just seem to clean dirt and oil off - while there are soaps for oily or dry skin types, there was nothing found for skin colors.

        But I have to ask; are you implying that there even might be a target audience large enough to justify a national ad campaign and that wants to change their skin color from black to white?  That seems more than a trifle racist...

        Saw a collection of old, old ads yesterday, and there was one with a little white girl asking a little black girl why her mother didn't wash her with (borax, I think, or some other bleach).  Now THAT was racist, though normal for the time, but indicating that Dove soap works for all skin types is not.  Why must showing a variety of colors be about turning the dark ones lighter?  (Can you be positive it wasn't about darkening light skin?)  Why not be about being intended for, and working for, everyone, unlike the products listed above?  None of those products showed multiple skin colors...

        1. jonnycomelately profile image87
          jonnycomelatelyposted 32 hours agoin reply to this

          "Virgin Hair Fertilizer Shampoo"  .....   wow!  Back to the head-lands down on the farm!   Can your hair really take up nutrient like it was a field of corn?   100% NO!   That hair is already dead tissue.  One more lie designed to deceive the gullible.

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 31 hours agoin reply to this

            Must be eating the avocado oil.  You've never noticed the tiny teeth on a strand of hair? big_smile

          2. dianetrotter profile image74
            dianetrotterposted 29 hours agoin reply to this

            Jonny, I use avocado oil, coconut oil, vitamin e and others.  I take hair, skin and nails.  It is difficult for me to adjust to my hair thinning.  My hairline is gone!  The rest of my hair is so thin it doesn't have the movement it used to have.

            I tried a weave or two and said, "Uh! Uh!" 

            Dove actually could come up with a soap that has vitamin e or avocado or something.  That would be wonderful for our skin.  Darker skin needs more oil.

        2. dianetrotter profile image74
          dianetrotterposted 29 hours agoin reply to this

          Wilderness, the whole point of "targeting" is to get a certain group to buy your product.  I've seen the ads from back in the day.  They lay the foundation for people to make a comparison for possible racist message.  I don't think it was an intended message.  I do think it was an insensitive message from someone who is clueless.  Sometimes, you can try too hard.

          We definitely need those products that are made for our skin and our hair!.

          I wasn't attempting to apply their may be a target audience.  Actually there are products for lightening skin just as there are products for tanning skin.  However, they don't show a change in ethnicity to make an appeal.

          That was at least the 2nd ad that Dove had to pull.  I'm wondering if they need a more diverse group of people creating the ads.  However, if the do that, there will be other consequences.

          Bottom line, how can they reach out with a message that will have the impact they want it to have.

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 29 hours agoin reply to this

            They cannot.  As long as there are many people willing and eager to take offense when none is offered it is impossible to do anything but offend them.  Which is exactly what happened - even you say there was no intent to offend, but you take offense anyway.

            1. dianetrotter profile image74
              dianetrotterposted 29 hours agoin reply to this

              I see a wrong racial message but I have not expressed any anger or irritation....have I.

              Of course, the ethnic products you mentioned are absolutely what we use and depend on.  Definitely no offense there.  Glad to have them!!!

              I think you get more upset about what you think my reaction is than what my reaction really is.  Calm down!

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 27 hours agoin reply to this

                "I see a wrong racial message but I have not expressed any anger or irritation....have I."

                You have certainly let it be known that you are offended by the racism "inherent" in the ad.  Does that count as irritation?

                Diane, it's not so much upset, as just sad.  You have repeatedly said, in spite of the views of others, that all you can see is a particularly vicious form of racism; an "obvious" indication that black women do/should aspire to be white.  And when you come back to redefine the OP, it's still all about black becoming white - no attempt I can detect at actually trying to understand the ad at all.  Just a continued insistence it is racist, and that kind of insistence (racism is always there, waiting to be found, whether intended or not, whether hurtful or not) is harmful to you, to the company and to the nation.  IMO.

                But I give.  I cannot seem to get what I'm trying to say through.  Through a lifetime of actual, real racism and through the perception of offense and racism when there is none intended in later years.  One can always find offense if that's what is wanted, but that message is lost in the pain of years of persecution and discrimination.

                1. dianetrotter profile image74
                  dianetrotterposted 26 hours agoin reply to this

                  As a young professional woman I had to learn to communicate clearly, and support my position, while remaining even tempered.  You are entitled to your observation.  Possibly it is tinged with your own emotion of having been passed over for jobs that were given to women or people of other ethnic groups.

                  I've seen more pronounced racism in my day, when I was less confident, less educated, and had no support system.  I can see racism and call it what it is, especially realizing that it has no impact on me unless they have something I need.

                  I don't need to use Dove.  I am able to purchase it if I want it.  It's great to be able to have the choice.  It's like the Montgomery bus boycott.  The Black people walked everywhere rather than ride the bus.  It had an impact on the bus transportation income.  Then Black people were allowed to sit on the front of the bus. 

                  If Dove wants Black customers, they need to find a way to attract them that is appealing!

                  Down boy!

                  1. wilderness profile image95
                    wildernessposted 26 hours agoin reply to this

                    "If Dove wants Black customers, they need to find a way to attract them that is appealing!"

                    Or find black customers that don't turn everything into being about race.  That don't keep the "race card" on the top of the deck, ready for instant play.  That recognize that others probably aren't nearly so "sensitive" to perceived wrongdoing. 

                    I'll leave you alone - I'm not going to convince you that this wasn't racist, and you aren't going to convince me that there is anything to be upset or concerned about.  You seem like a great lady and, outside of this penchant for that race card, one I can learn from and appreciate.

  2. shanmarie profile image77
    shanmarieposted 7 days ago

    Let me ask something, please, simply because I am curious. As I said, when I first saw the ad, it was in motion and not still frame pictures. Would this have the same effect on you as the still frames? Meaning, would you still interpret it the same way?

    1. Ivan Tod profile image61
      Ivan Todposted 7 days agoin reply to this

      More so, in fact, as when the ad is in motion and there are but two women involved there is no mistaking what has happened...A black woman has turned white. And to what end would that message be leading to?

      1. shanmarie profile image77
        shanmarieposted 7 days agoin reply to this

        The model says it leads to all skin being important. They turn into each other as a way to promote the beauty if all women.  Her words:

        https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr … t-a-victim

        1. Ivan Tod profile image61
          Ivan Todposted 7 days agoin reply to this

          That is just one of her replies...The one that she hopes will not prevent her from getting another "modeling" gig. It's all good, though. I was simply giving my "evaluation" of the ad from a propagandist/psyops viewpoint. The thing about a psyop is that it is intended to promote something not readily acknowledged by the target audience. It initially promotes confusion in order that if any one recognizes the deception that it can be spin-doctored out of a bad situation...Just like the ad.

          1. MizBejabbers profile image87
            MizBejabbersposted 5 days agoin reply to this

            And I suppose you believe in all the backmasking allegations of the 1960s and 70s. It is the people who see conspiracies under every bush who keep racism alive. Maybe the people who don't see it as racist are the ones trying to get along with all others, not the ones stirring up controversy.

            1. Ivan Tod profile image61
              Ivan Todposted 5 days agoin reply to this

              "It is the people who see conspiracies under every bush who keep racism alive."

              Well, actually, it's racists and those who deny it exists who keep racism alive. Those who expose it when they see it are actually working to get rid of it. Which are you; Racist, denier or exposer?

              1. Aime F profile image84
                Aime Fposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                This is not a clear or even insinuated display of racism, however. It was a poorly edited commercial. Some people perceived it a certain way, and I won’t tell them that it’s wrong because we’re all entitled to feel the way we feel, but please let’s not pretend that not reading into it the same way means we’re denying racism.

                1. dianetrotter profile image74
                  dianetrotterposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                  Here is an extension that includes another bad Dove ad.  Notice "Before" and "After"  It is very obvious what is displayed on the 2nd one.


                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkIrbVycAeM

            2. shanmarie profile image77
              shanmarieposted 5 days agoin reply to this

              I actually just sent a personal message to Dianne because this topic is interesting to me.

              I grew up with people around me who were different from me in culture. It was my normal. So even though I am white and do not deny that tqcusm exists, I don't go looking for it or immediately take offense to something as intended racism. I was taught by a civil rights leader in her own right that fighting ignorance and fear begins with yourself. I took that to mean that there is no need to fear or to assume others different than myself are bad, including racist. To give benefit of the doubt. To judge people based on how they treat me. To understand other cultures to appreciate them. To get along. It's really not that difficult. Society and continued thinking instead of just doing is the problem, in my opinion. If it's internalized, there is no initial thoughts of malice when we see things like this commercial. That's why my thoughts were more like what a stupid commercial and why would women want to turn I to each other rather than love who they are?

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                "To give benefit of the doubt."

                Therein lies an enormous part of any answer.  Those that actively search and look for offense will always find it; those that give benefit of doubt seldom will.  If we simply assume, for instance, that others that are different are automatically racist we will find racism in everything they do whether it was intended, or even present at all.

                1. dianetrotter profile image74
                  dianetrotterposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                  I was not looking for anything or thinking of discrimination.  I saw the 4 pics in my twitter feed before I saw concerns about it and didn't think anything of it one way or the other.  Then I saw the animated version.

                  In 1980, my boyfriend called my employer to tell them that I wouldn't be in to work that day.  I was taken to emergency during the night and was writhing in pain.  The employer wanted "me" to call to tell him.  I had just had an ng tube pushed through my nose and landed in my stomach.  I was given a heavy dose of pain medication.  Still, the hospital called back so my employer could hear my voice.  Just because they were at work and feeling fine did not mean I wasn't almost dying.

                  I had been sick over 2 years, had 80% of my bladder removed and replaced with intestines.  The doctor said the lining had come out of my bladder.  I had had surgery on both my knees.  I have a denerative bone disease.  The doctor said my knee damage was comparable to athletic knees.  My employer thought all of this was in my mind.

                  Bottom line, I couldn't be sick because they felt fine.  There I go with one of my war stories!  Not all white people are racist or discriminate.  However, it is not our imagination.  Why are there Ku Klux Klan, Nazis, white supremacists, etc.  These people are not showing their racism every day so everyone can see it.  People in Arkansas were recently surprised to see that a guy from Arkansas was in the group that beat the Black substitute teacher in the parking lot.  People that knew him were surprised.

                  Everyone is different and has different experiences.  I have no idea of what it is like to be white or challenges they face.  White people have no idea of the challenges facing Black people.  Just because you are not a racists doesn't mean that there are no racists.  They wouldn't taunt or harm you.  Why?  Because you are not the target of their hatred.

                  1. wilderness profile image95
                    wildernessposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                    But what is the "war story" indicative of?  That they felt that way, or you were treated poorly, because you are black?  I'm sorry, but that conclusion is completely unsupported by your story - it's what I mean when I say that those looking for discrimination/racism will always find it. 

                    Yes, there is overt racism like the supremacists (as well as covert and unintentional racism) but that does not mean that every bad action has race at its core.  People do and say stupid things, unthinking things all the time but it is not indicative of racism.

              2. dianetrotter profile image74
                dianetrotterposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                Beautifully written Shan!

                1. shanmarie profile image77
                  shanmarieposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                  I saw you had a FB link on your profile page so sent you a message there. smile

                  1. dianetrotter profile image74
                    dianetrotterposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                    TY!  I'll check.

                2. MizBejabbers profile image87
                  MizBejabbersposted 2 days agoin reply to this

                  Diane, I had to delete my post. I answered your question privately.

                  1. dianetrotter profile image74
                    dianetrotterposted 2 days agoin reply to this

                    Just read it!  Thank you!

  3. Aime F profile image84
    Aime Fposted 7 days ago

    I don’t think it’s racist, and no it’s not because I’m white, I’ve seen people of all colours also say they don’t feel it’s racist. So take that as my opinion and nothing more.

    If you watch the full commercial there are three women that all get the same amount of camera time. The black girl takes off her shirt and turns into the white girl. The white girl takes off her shirt and turns into the brown girl. A lot of the gifs only show the black girl turning into the white girl to push the “racist” narrative, likewise the screenshot posted here shows the white girl twice (which some of you have confused to be two separate white girls) to make it seem like the focus is on her/white skin. It’s not. It’s really important to view the commercial in its entirety and not just take a snippet, or assume that this screenshot is the way the ad was actually framed, because again... it’s not. 

    The point of the commercial was to say that the dove skincare products are for all women of all colours. Perhaps the concept is lacking in some ways and I think it’s a weird commercial but to say it’s racist is really a stretch. Unfortunate given there are plenty of contentious race issues that actually exist and deserve the attention this commercial is getting.

    1. jonnycomelately profile image87
      jonnycomelatelyposted 7 days agoin reply to this

      It seems that each of us is getting a different msg from this add.  Good thing, makes us think beyond the square.  Let's have some more to discuss.

    2. shanmarie profile image77
      shanmarieposted 7 days agoin reply to this

      This true. It's not the full add or the idea. This is what I just read from the model in the commercial:
      https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr … t-a-victim

  4. shanmarie profile image77
    shanmarieposted 7 days ago

    Why does it have to be a go along to get along mentality? I don't remember that commercial, though. But I grew up with friends from several different cultures. Kids simply don't think this way. All this talk of division started as I got older and left my hometown. We certainly weren't blind to history growing up, but we were also taught about other cultures as a way to celebrate differences. I loved learning about customs and traditions of my friends. I still do. I see no reason to many things in a racist light that may not be. It's common now to see people taking offense to poor word choices. There are no doubt issues in society that need to be addressed, but we also make it worse by not getting along. Not by going along, but by getting along while disagreeing, too.

    As for Dove apologizing, I think it's good that they did. And explaining themselves probably would have made it worse and sounded insincere.

    1. dianetrotter profile image74
      dianetrotterposted 6 days agoin reply to this

      I don't see this as people not getting along.  Black people were offended.  Dove responded by removing the ad.  When I first looked at the 4 pics, I didn't get it.  When I saw it animated, the story I saw was "Use Dove to wash off the color and become white."  It isn't true and doesn't make since. 

      If we had gone along to get along back in the 1950s, in Little Rock, Arkansas, I would have never seen the 2nd floor of major department stores or had the opportunity to ride on the front of the bus.  I would be entering the homes of white people from the back door.  Dr. Martin Luther King peacefully protested.  Thank God for the ability to speak up when you feel bullied, lampooned, or otherwise unfairly treated.

      I found my ability to communicate unfairness particularly helpful in the last 7 years.  As an older, more experienced, higher paid teacher, I was harrassed and unfairly evaluated because the principal could hire two young teachers for what I was paid.  When I received my evaluations, I wrote rebuttals to everyone for three years.  The principal thought my choir students wouldn't like me because I was old.  He didn't realize the bond I had with the students.  I shared all of my evaluations with the students and they critiqued all of the lies.  Many of my former students are my friends on Facebook.  I taught them how to document, articulate, and resolve issues in a productive manner.

      It is good that Dove was responsive and immediately pulled the ad.  Not everyone is the same and, therefore, not impacted the same based on stimuli.  I'm sure they didn't consider the ad offensive.  It may mean that they need more diversification in screening ads.

      1. shanmarie profile image77
        shanmarieposted 6 days agoin reply to this

        You sound like an excellent teacher!

        1. dianetrotter profile image74
          dianetrotterposted 6 days agoin reply to this

          Thank you shanmarie!  I changed careers from a Fortune 500 so I could help kids learn to stop being "victims."  I took a big pay cut to do it but know that I helped some kids along the way.

    2. Ivan Tod profile image61
      Ivan Todposted 6 days agoin reply to this

      Dove apologizing for something they knew would be seen as racist is like a criminal saying he is sorry right before sentencing...They are both only sorry because they got caught, not for what they did.

      1. dianetrotter profile image74
        dianetrotterposted 6 days agoin reply to this

        I think of "Truth in Advertising" and can't understand it.  I know companies do ridiculous thinks to sell products.  Example:  Carl's Jr sexualizes advertisements to sell hamburgers.  There is insurance for "zombie apolcalypse."  There are actually a lot of dumb commercials.  This one wasn't trying to be dumb or silly.  It was neither.  Someone should be losing a job.

        1. Ivan Tod profile image61
          Ivan Todposted 5 days agoin reply to this

          Hey Diane,
            I believe that in the best interest of actual race relations in America, nothing should be done to Dove or the ad agency. Why? Because such blatant racism by corporate leadership simply lets us all know that racism/bigotry is alive and well and if one or all of them are publicly brought to bear all of the other racist/bigot executives/companies will be more sneaky about it making it more difficult to expose them. A simple slap on the wrist will pose no deterrent and so they will continue to do it giving people the opportunity to see who they are. This way all the deniers and those with "blinders" on to it can continue to deny its existence if they choose but the rest of us will know better. For far too long there have been WAY too many people (whites) who insisted such racism/bigotry doesn't exist in America. The proof is in the pudding, no?

          1. dianetrotter profile image74
            dianetrotterposted 5 days agoin reply to this

            This does not show the animated sequence.  The animated sequence is 1) top left, 2) bottom left, 3) bottom right and 4) top right.

            I don't think the order makes a difference. 

            What is the purpose of Dove, cleansing!  The top right (white) one shows her clean after taking off the shirt.  Her process is complete.  There is no picture of the Black person after cleansing.

            I thought I was responding to Jo.  Sorry Ivan!

            You know I feel the same way about Donald Trump becoming president.  His presidency has brought meaning conversations to the forefront that might otherwise not have happened.

            1. shanmarie profile image77
              shanmarieposted 5 days agoin reply to this

              I think, in part, the disconnect between some whites and racism is a generational thing. What I mean by that is what I said earlier in another comment. I grew up with friends from all over the world by the time I reached high school and it was normal to me to see people for how they treat me as opposed to skin tone or where they are from. Those things were mere details to me that often make people more interesting. I first realized it was a much bigger issue when I moves to college and did some student teaching and learned of some issues still being addressed, including race and poverty.

              It may also be a regional thing. People tend not to see things that are not as prevalent in their own lives.

              But back to Dove...I don't use the product so I can't verify this.... I heard someone say that on the product somewhere it says "for normal to dark skin" as opposed to something like "perfect for light to dark skin" or "all shades'. If this is the case, it does drastically alter the way I perceive the commercial. Because even if this is unintentional and not meant to be anything outright offensive, it still remains entirely insensitive and off the mark.

              1. dianetrotter profile image74
                dianetrotterposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                Thank you shan!  Good points!

              2. dianetrotter profile image74
                dianetrotterposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                Shan, when I was in the shower, I thought about "Normal to Dark skin tones!"  Soooo, I looked it up.  Based on this fiasco, there is no excuse for the current ad.  After at least 5 years, it is still a struggle. 

                Ivan, YES!  Someone should be fired.  See below
                Dove is in hot water thanks to a questionable label on one of its lotions.  Possibly advertising should be created in the US rather than Europe.

                On Tuesday, a woman posted a Twitter photo of Dove's Summer Glow Nourishing Lotion, that featured the classification "Normal to dark skin," implying that light skin tones are "normal" and dark skin isn't. Ugh.

                Twitter user @hatfulofalex rightfully tweeted her outrage, saying "Dear @Dove , What skin colour is 'normal' ?!?" Her tweet has since garnered more than 15,000 retweets and more than 12,000 favourites.

                Dear @Dove , What skin colour is 'normal' ?!? pic.twitter.com/Fw69pdWxDs

                — alex (@hatfulofalex) August 26, 2014
                It's an unfortunate (and racist) choice of words for the beauty company whose marketing campaign focuses on "real beauty."

                A Dove spokesperson told Boston.com:

                "Dove is committed to representing beauty of all ages, ethnicities, shapes and sizes. We believe in celebrating real beauty and in raising the self-esteem of women and young girls globally. Our European team was already aware of the mistake regarding labeling on Dove Summer Glow Body Lotion bottles. This was corrected during the summer of 2012. Many of our lotions focus on moisture as the key benefit and in some cases we label them ‘normal to dry skin.’
                The Dove Summer Glow Body Lotion is a gradual self tanner that also moisturizes. It should have been marked as “fair to medium skin” or “medium to dark skin” depending on the skin type it focuses on. In this case, there was an oversight from our team and we accidentally combined the phrases. As soon as our teams in Europe discovered this error, they began the process of relabeling the bottles. We corrected the language in our other communication vehicles where possible. As always, we appreciate the feedback and support from our community."

                But it seems as if the original offensive packaging, which resulted in a Twitter firestorm two years ago, is still being sold.

                A quick search reveals that Summer Glow "normal skin" products are still in circulation and sold on sites such as Coles Australia, Amazon.uk, Amazon.com and Dove Australia.

                Naturally, the Twitterverse isn't pleased.


                http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/08/28 … 30996.html

            2. Ivan Tod profile image61
              Ivan Todposted 5 days agoin reply to this

              Hey Diane,
              it's all good. And actually, your reference to "cleansing" is excellent! It never crossed my mind but, Wow, what a very astute observation! Cleanse yourself of yourself to become more like the superior race! I guess the new "ethnic cleansing" is being perpetrated within the minds of it's victims.

            3. dianetrotter profile image74
              dianetrotterposted 5 days agoin reply to this

              meaningful!  not meaning.

        2. MizBejabbers profile image87
          MizBejabbersposted 5 days agoin reply to this

          Diane, I certainly agree with you that the ad should be pulled not because some people think it's racist, but because most people think it was a dumb commercial anyway. I see a lot of commercials that don't seem to convey any kind of understandable message. I think that says a lot about ad writers today. I don't understand why companies are willing to spend millions of dollars on vague messages.

  5. PrettyPanther profile image85
    PrettyPantherposted 6 days ago

    I haven't read through all the comments before posting this.  I saw the ad and was puzzled.  I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I kept thinking surely the advertisers don't mean to convey this message....?

    1. dianetrotter profile image74
      dianetrotterposted 6 days agoin reply to this

      So, in 20 words or less, what do you think the message was Pretty?

      1. PrettyPanther profile image85
        PrettyPantherposted 5 days agoin reply to this

        The message that I first saw was: dark to light is desirable.

        1. dianetrotter profile image74
          dianetrotterposted 5 days agoin reply to this

          ok!

  6. GA Anderson profile image84
    GA Andersonposted 5 days ago

    Just when I think I have seen it all...

    I watched multiple versions/portrayals of the ad. My impression was that the ad intended to say the product was good for all types of skins.  Period!

    I think, that the controversy is a bunch of malarky promoted by folks with an agenda, and latched onto by folks looking for a reason to be offended.

    Surely the accusations that I am a white guy insensitive to the perception of the portrayal that other "offended" folks see, and don't have a clue what the ad really said will come, but geesh!

    Maybe it was a dumb ad in the PC world - where froggy folks are just looking for a reason to jump, but in my insensitive white guy world - it was just an ad message that it was good for all skins.

    On this thread, the worst offender, in my opinion, is Ivan Todd, with this racial dissection of exactly how and why this is a racist assault on people of color by white people of power. Bullshit!

    White people are superior! From the black woman to the white woman showing that white is superior and "cleaner!" Or that all black women really want to be white women! Double bullshit!

    I hope you check this out Live to Learn, it is a martini night, and I hope there is nothing fuzzy about my disdain for the racial denigration thrown at this commercial.

    This controversy is the biggest crock of PC BS I have seen in a long time, and if anyone found a reason to be offended by it - then, well... it's not quite that much of a martini night, so I can't finish that sentiment.

    GA

  7. RTalloni profile image87
    RTalloniposted 25 hours ago

    Haven't seen any of the ad except what is pictured here but if the women are taking off their shirts it seems like the target audience is being overlooked.  It's men. Men are the targets. Men of any and all colors.

    1. jonnycomelately profile image87
      jonnycomelatelyposted 21 hours agoin reply to this

      Oh yeah....men are the culprits every time...

  8. The Stages Of ME profile image77
    The Stages Of MEposted 14 hours ago

    My thoughts:
    I would say the target was financial gain! Where we can state artistic vision and concept, it remains a disappointing ploy to engage discussion across many target audiences. It appears this vision, although covert, is met by our attention to it.

    In the timing of its generation, I do find it sensitive and confusing to the masses, thereby, causing conversation and controversy.

    However, from a marketing sense, they have accomplished their goal.

    Personally I remain disappointed by the covert ploy, my opinion. Flash point advertising that streams controversy is an,“ oops I’m sorry that was not the meaning or intent.” This doesn’t negate that they got things riled up.

    I believe they knew, in the least, that it would create discussion with various interpretations, some negative and some positive. Hence, their goal was achieved.

    From a worldly perspective, again with the temperature of the social climate we are experiencing did we need the controversy in this timing?

    1. dianetrotter profile image74
      dianetrotterposted 13 hours agoin reply to this

      Thank you!  Great food for thought!

 
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