I fear I am the only one...I know my reasons, I would love to know yours.... What do you say to people who assume you voted for him because you are black?
You're not the only black person who didn't vote Obama. Sister, why don't you give your brothers and sisters credit? I'm sure white folk don't just vote for someone because he's white. I'm sure they have other more prominent reasons. Now according to your line of questioning- are you suggesting that we don't have that capability? That we ourselves can't look pass color? Your whole structure of questioning, tells me YOU voted for the white man, for that reason and nothing else. He WAS white...! Now is that fair for me to say of you? I'll agree that it is no more fair, than the likes of someone like yourself asking your question. Yeah, I'm black. Damn straight, but you listen here, I happened to have voted for Obama NOT because he was black. I voted for Obama because he was and is the right choice for America. The fact that he is a man of color was just an added bonus. Now John McCain? That guy ran a cocky, bitter and ugly campaign. Nowhere in his message did he look towards seeking peace. Nowhere did he match up to Obama in a debate. Nowhere. Nowhere did he speak of hope, change, of togetherness. No. So Sister, I'm glad your dude got smoked. He was the wrong choice. It wasn't his time and it would not have been his finest hour. But just so you know [for me], its people thinking like you that keeps some of us other "black" folk down. Com'on open your eyes and look past the color!
After reading all of the thread, I personally agree with RK.
"So Sister, I'm glad your dude got smoked. He was the wrong choice"
This is exactly the type of rhetoric that polarizes the nation, and is a common ingredient in ultra left wing speech patterns. They give no factual info on solving problems, just blame and in your face tactics.
When was the last time Obama took any kind of responsibility for his unprecedented spending during this recession? NEVER
The reason is that he can always fall back on the mantra that he inherited this recession from George Bush. I find it hard to believe that George Bush did it all by himself! Obama doesn't mention one single member of Congress (most of whom were in power during the Bush years) being responsible for forcing the banks to make subprime loans to people who could not afford them. Additionally, he has the mainstream media in the tank with him, and none of this ever reaches the newspapers or airwaves.
I personally like Obama. He is an articulate person with a good sense of humor, who is a wonderful father and family man. He is hip, and I wouldn't mind being friends with him. However, his big government/higher taxes scenario will eventually bankrupt our nation. I disagree with his policies and rhetoric, and that is why I didn't vote for him. Those are the only factors I use when I vote. Race, creed, religion, gender and even sexual persuasion do not matter If the person running supports a free market capitalistic society. This man does not.
How presumptuous of you to assume she voted for McCain. This two-party tunnel-vision is what got us into the situation we're currently in.
Check that; people who vote based on "hope, change, and togetherness" got us into this situation.
I disagree. I think the choice was made quite clear through her silence. But hey, thanks for pointing that out. I don't know for sure if they voted for McCain. But you know based off your theory, isn't also presumptuous to think that "she" is a woman. Are YOU making assumptions based off their name or profile? But how do YOU know for sure? Did you look up "her" skirt or something. Know them personally?
Yeah, based off what they said, I assumed "she" voted for McCain. But yes, I didn't hold their hand in the voting booth. Just as I'm sure you didn't look up "her" skirt.
It is all about assumptions.
Well, I guess we've reached the end of this thread. Evidently you can't support your points and this makes you tired.
Nice try. Try looking at your own post. I made my point. But you can bark fowl up someone's else tree. Your last response told me all I needed to know about you. Not real interested in debating a possible tactical jackass this morning.
Textbook Progressive/Democrat/Liberal tactics:
1. Impugn the messenger.
2. If the messenger doesn't back down, resort to name calling.
My thesis is proven yet again. Progressives/Democrats/Liberals are inherently unhappy.
I would guess that I am liberal, yet I am very happy. Must be the exception to the rule
You are SO clueless. So now I'm a Democrat. So now I'm a Liberal. God that's funny.
I would say that mimisays asked the question in the first place because there are people who do assume that ALL African-Americans voted for Obama because he is black. That is obviously not the case and that assumption shows a subtle racism in itself.
Issues are far more important in the US than the media-fanned flames of racism would have anyone believe.
And a big thumbs up to you, mimisays, for bringing up an important topic.
I voted for him
at the very LAST MINUTE
does that count for anything
I hope there are some - because it would mean that race isn't the defining characteristic in America.
There are some, LG, yes.
But the overwhelming reasons for voting for Obama in most womens', blacks', and other so-called 'interest groups' cases hugely outweighed anything on the candidate's platform alone. So that assuming race is a defining characteristic of Obama winning is either a cause and effect or post hoc fallacy I think being generated by the OP.
And they are wrong...but wouldn't that be nice in some lala land? (This 'color' of lady I don't think exists except for CNN planted political pundits, ie... Of course, I admit I could be incorrect. I guess we'll see.)
I think lita is right, that the race is a huge defining characteristic because of what the race stands for...tearing down borders and boundaries...making in a way possible for everyone to be able to reach the sky. Voting shouldn't be restricted to color or even party, but it is.
I know some black americans that are friends of the family that did not agree with obama but voted for him based on his race.
That is not really what I meant, MIJ, but an interesting take that would fit into the formula of what I said technically.
For the record, I was saying that these groups (women and blacks) were voting for the candidate who had a platform that most reflected their best interests. That it wasn't just about race.
Ah, ok it was late my time when i read this so that is what i got from it. Well, in a sense a race could be the platform. I know as a woman if there was a woman running for president who i liked and agreed with and there was another candidate i might have agreed with more, I still would have chosen the woman because she is a woman. I don't think race can be left out of a platform. It may not be politically correct, but it is what happens.
Would you consider the same thinking from male voters for a male candidate against that hypothetical female candidate as legitimate?
I am sure...why else would women not be able to vote until the 1920s. I think is human nature to go with your own "kind" and own "thinking". If I see a woman who thinks like me I am going to more likely vote for her than a man. Likewise, a man would vote for a fellow man who had the same thinking over a woman...
I would consider that thinking illegitimate and wrong.
I am not saying everyone fits this but it happens. I mean think about it. You are most likely to have friends that agree with you and think like you. You are most likely to marry someone who in some way agree's with you and acts like you. You can only say that you are most likely to vote for someone who is most like you. It doesn't even have to be conscious. It can be unconsciously done. AS a nation and people yes we have grown in our tolerance and acceptance for others in a way, but that doesn't change that some ppl are going to vote for someone who is most like them even if that means voting for a man over a woman or woman over a man
People are weak and stupid for the most part, but to accept such thinking is a violation of the resonsibility of a citizen.
Well accepting in the sense of embracing is not what I am talking about but accepting as in stating a fact is. We travel in our "own kind" because it is safe, it is normal, it is self preservation in a sense. It is one of our basic instincts as a human. We have to preserve ourself. So though people may not agree to it...it can happen...
We are only human and we all have faults...we can't be perfect even if we tried so hard
You are right. And actually, I'm sure this was somewhat true with Obama, though not entirely. These issues are complex. Politics is more an art, actually, than a science.
I was mostly objecting to the over-simplification that the OP has made of this issue.
And not to intercede with your conversation with TK here (you have fun with that, ), but I believe I am one woman who if given the choice between a man and a woman I both liked, the woman just a little less, I'd pick the man(a man can be more for the rights of women than some women can be, ie). I do not think it helps the cause to settle like this...not for this office.
*edit: And I actually already did it--chose Obama over Hillary.
THANK GOD! But unfortunately, it's sadly not the case way too often here.
Yeah, but again that depends on where you sit on the color wheel.
But the original poster is black. She is suggesting that some of us don't have the intelligence to look pass our own color. Now if she was white- what would you be thinking of her now? But make no mistake about it- where she is narrow minded, many of us are future forward thinkers and voted on who best represented there views, ideas and beliefs. I don't know why she assumes she was the only one.
I have a few African American friends who did not.
Why? Because they know that a person's skin color has nothing to do with making them qualified for a job. And, they didn't think he was the best man for the job.
Thanks so much for your replies... I hope more people reply... I am asking because I feel like a black girl on her own lonely island :-)
Well .. I'm gonna assume the OP doesn't personally know any African American who didn't vote for Obama, so obviously, she feels like she might be the only one. I mean, just look carefully at the question posed in the topic: "Are you an African American voter who DID NOT vote for Obama?" Now read the responses ... the only African American who responded so far DID vote for Obama. No wonder why she felt so alone!
I'm not African American, but I AM a minority (half Asian half White American), and I did NOT vote for Obama I also want to add that all my friends are either not interested in politics or Liberal Democrats, so yeah, I understand the feeling .. it really feels like I'm the lone conservative who voted for McCain/Palin.
I have many African American friends who did vote for Obama, and several who did not. I am not African American, and I did not vote for him. However race had absolutely NOTHING to do with my vote. It was based on qualifications and ideas.
We should never, never ever use race in determining a candidate's worthiness.
Even though my presidential vote was based on smaller government and lower taxes, I get extremely angry responses when I mention these ideas to my African American friends who voted for Obama. It seems as though we are in a situation today where we can't critique our current president because of his race. This, in itself is a prejudicial idea.
The Tea Party people, who basically believe in less government and lower taxes were accused by Jeneane Garofolo as being racists. What is happening to our country when we can't have peaceful protests over ideas, because the race issue keeps being brought up?
Excellent post RK.
This lady (person) loves to get caught up in the color barrier. Not sure why? I am not American, but if I was able to vote, I sure wouldn't vote based on the race of the candidate, that doesn't make any sense. The person that shapes America needs to be qualified for the responsibility they hold. I am not sure if Obama or any other President, black, white or other, is capable of doing what is best for the country. The important thing is to vote for the lesser evil and hope that their agenda is sincere and followed through in the interest of the people.
Um, sorry. I've been listening to a distinct sort of Republican (now notice I didn't say conservative) rhetoric that has been viral here on hubpages for a while now.
Taking that specific quote of RK's out of context and using it as an example to promote stereotypes of liberals doesn't prove a darned thing...except perhaps lending proof to the stereotypes we liberals have of the current Republican party (notice again I did not say conservatives).
In this instance, if you know RK, and know his mode of expression--it is just his mode of speaking. That--and an expression lending to a larger contextual meaning... And actually, a very well-spoken post.
The portraiture of Obama as a spend thrift and a socialist because of our current economic troubles is also inaccurate--as much as the Republicans would like to believe their own negative PR will convince both liberals and conservatives of conscience and sophistication that this is the truth. It will fool some--on Hubpages, man, it looks like it has fooled many.
I am not an economist--however, the fact that a financial titan such as Warren Buffet (a blatant CAPITALIST) supported the bailouts should tell even an average observer something. This was a needed, and not pretty--nor looked upon as ideal in any camp--move in order to keep our entire infrastructure from crumbling. Will it be enough? Time will tell. It does start to look better, IMHO.
As far as the media on Obama: It is hard to paint in a negative light that which is fairly transparent (I did not say translucent, lol--I do not live in lala land and see no Christ--another stereotype being perpetrated by Republicans).
Voting is about qualifications,trust,intelligence, compassion for others, and genuine concerns with the issues.
Maybe you thought someone else was more qualified...
What does that have to do with your skin color?
Race is only an issue when you make it one as a topic.
Whether you voted for him or not should not be about skin color...but that's been the elephant in the room for many years, however things are changing because of brave,honest,colorblind,and truly beautiful people.
I did not say liberal - I said "ultra left wing" rhetoric. All liberals are not ultra left wing.
I have read some of RK's hubs and he is an excellent writer. I am merely stating an opinion on this one statement he made. He may not be ultra left wing, but this is a tactic they use when debating. When they debate ideas or policies it always starts with a Bush bash or in your face tactics. Bush started these bailouts and Obama (who always calls this the Bush recession)has quadrupled the spending on them. I'm sorry If it looked as though I were labeling RK as ultra left wing.
Also I have been around for 57 years and for a major part of my life was a liberal. I am now independent but lean conservative on financial issues mainly because runaway spending with tons of earmarks (Obama PROMISED NO EARMARKS), during a recession has always proven to worsen an economy. I am stating an issue that I feel strongly about without name calling.
If you need proof to see what excessive spending during a recession does to an economy, look at the You Tube video of Danial Hannan's speech to the European parliament.
I know for certain RK isn't 'ultra left wing.' In fact, he's newly liberal. And simply, he's a smart young black guy, and that is how he expresses himself...he's not a pundit, lol.
I disagree about liberals using Bush bashing or in your face tactics, but then I can only speak for myself, ultimately. I find much of all of this to be a lot of stereotyping.
My little sister, closer at hand (quite a few years younger than 57) is turning into a conservative (I guess...if that is what you want to call it...I think she's bored) leaning independent, and she will not change my mind or philosophy, either. lol Or how I interpret the information or what sources I deem valid. So we will have to agree to disagree, .
Oh hell no you didn't!!!
Just kidding. Obama has a hard long road ahead of him. I wish the House was actually not so lopsided as it is now. Bi-partisan leadership is the best overall, well-rounded government. But does anyone here actually believe that someday, we could possibly elect good official heads of state and create a strong bi-partisan government? What I mean here is, not even the Republicans can fish through all the horse pooh coming out of Washington these days, no better than the Dem's.
And though this is sad to say, but nevertheless, the Republican party leadership is nothing but washed-up has beens and drug addicts. I actually feel that the Republican party is in dire straights. I do not have confidence in the Republican leadership. They have lost their way. Does anyone else see it that way?
Another thing here to be talked about and recognized is that many us Moderates are currently being forced out of both parties and becoming Independents. Look at this writing about myself as a testament. Since I'm no longer a Right winged Republican, that means I must be a left winged Democrat because of a FEW things. A FEW things. Funny thing is, I voted for 3 Republicans in November 2008 and 1 Republican based state proposition. Go figure. So I don't fit the total bill the Republican party. Which now consists of primarily war mongers, hate mongers, bigots- so now I'm a left winged extremist.
Now I know that is not what was meant here. I understand that. But I could have taken that viewpoint, from what was said of myself negatively. However, what I think needs to be addressed more than anything is, why all of a sudden- a person has too be far right or left? And if we are not- then why do we still get labeled that way? Believe it or not, whether for or against Obama- I still want the same securities that my opposites do.
The above labeling is becoming a dangerous game here in America. I wished WE all could stop doing it. It has gotten to be a real bad habit here in America. Its like we are saying that none of us are Americans, but rather Democrats or Republicans. I'm not for that movement. I'm American first and foremost.
Extremely well said RK. There is a whole group of people that is getting bigger every day that does not want to be associated with either "side". They're just sick of the polarization and just want the freedom that stands in our Constitution. Good show!!
I get your point, but accepting that kind of thinking means accepting all the atrocities that have been perpetrated because of it in the past.
Hmmm no no not accepting it I am stating it for me...yes I would vote for a woman because that is part of my platform of beliefs even if it is a small difference between her and a man...doesn't mean she can't do the job, but just because she is a woman is great.
I am not accepting the atrocities of the past. They were wrong and they can't be changed.
Then you have to accept that you are sexist, and would have no right to complain if you applied for a job and were told, "Sorry honey, you're equally qualified but I'm giving the job to a man because he's a man."
Hmmm doesn't have so much to do with sexism as it does to do with breaking down barriers...it would be a success for women to finally be able to hold the position of president. I didn't say i would give it to any woman...i definitely was not in favor of hillary clinton, but if the right woman came along and would be good, even if a little less then i would vote for her not because i am sexist but because it would be a great achievement for this country and our government.
How can it have 'not much' to do with sexism when by your own account the only difference between candidates upon which you would base your choice is sex?
Then I cannot support it and I earnestly believe that such thinking is very much to the detriment of women everywhere.
But she is right about the fact that similar vote/marry/whatever for similar in kind. It is a part of human nature that I guarantee you that all savvy political advisers are using to win their races. And it will be for some time.
Detriment to women everywhere? Progress is done two steps forward, one step back.
Time has come to bury whatever ax one has about race in this country. Citizens should reflect on the values offered by each candidate and make their personal decision as to who they feel can move this country forward. Personally, I believe the US should invert and stay out of international issues. We should internalize our efforts into revitalizing our infrastructure and economy of trade. Color has no influence on ability, but ability to move a nation forward is favorable.
Sadly we have collapsed on ourselves and become what our fore fathers hoped we wouldn't. Race and Sex are a big issue for 70% of the US country, but do people forget... Obama is NOT full blooded African American, he's mixed...
I live in Atlanta and I know from doing surveys and polls that 94% of the African American's who live here voted for Obama ONLY BECAUSE OF HIS RACE... and 87% of these African American people had never bothered to vote before EVER, most had never even been registered as voters...
So, sadly... race does play a major role. After discussing this same topic with schools, clubs and organizations, churches and so on in the state of Georgia, it was discovered that the African American's who voted for Obama had no interest or knowledge of anything political... they didn't care about his views, his promises (other than, they wouldn't have to pay their mortgage because Obama said he'd pay it for them) healthcare, the war... they all said, "It was the right thing to do to back a brotha up and support one of our own."
If that doesnt sound racist then I don't know what does.
Personally, I don't care what color, sex or even if it's an Alien who's president as long as they keep me and my family and America safe from being blown to smithereens from terrorists and nuclear bombs, stimulate the economy smartly and not by making stupid choices with bailout's and stimulus packages, respect American's privacy and over all, join our country and bring us all together as one nation again.
This will pass too, and chances are shortly you guys won't be able to afford all your bases and such, let alone overseas military operation - to a great relief of the whole planet
Misha don't you live in the US? Haven't you lived here along time? Sleep on American soil Misha?
So I take it you meant "YOU" as in "YOU" too. I don't care where you're from. You sleep on American soil. Lived here for as long as I know you have already said. You too can include yourself in the American mix of things. It affects YOU too.
It definitely does. Yet I have no say in what you guys do, so in that sense it is still you, not us
Why is it that this forum section brings out so much negativity, d-bag behavior and jerk-ism?
A lot of trolls lurk here - not worth bothering trying to have a reasonable debate anymore.
God I hate that word. Troll.
But there are but a hand few of really good debaters in this area. Healthcare Basics for one, Lita for 2, the rest of us are debatable though.
Came to the conclusion that I can no longer be arsed - too many people only interested in attacking, without bringing something to the table.
Nowadays, I go down to the local taverna for a debate - much more enlightening
I bet that is quite an enjoyable adventure. What's it like there to debate in Greece?
ledefensetech is another great debater.
Great fun - I am halfway through a Hub on that very topic
When I first arrived, a Greek debate appeared to be lots of shouting and arm-waving. As I learned more Greek, I began to see that there are hidden layers of etiquette and subtlety. Greeks are taught how to debate from a very young age - a good debater is given a lot of respect.
I have a sneaking feeling that you would enjoy it - you have a debate and then sit and enjoy an Ouzo together. Very civilised.
EDIT: I have had some great debates with ledefensetech - he is a gentleman.
I really enjoy debating with him too. Though, I'm not so sure that he isn't a she. But who knows. Very good debater though. Extremely knowledgeable. One Sat. morning we debate for like 5 hours about the Masons, Illuminati and the new world order. It was fantastic. Needless to say, it was a draw. But boy was it fun. There is so much to learn in a good healthy debate. Debates are great teaching tools. Way too often pride steps in and blasts everything to hell.
Hey, I look forward to that hub.
That debate with LDT sounds like the one that we had - about healthcare - a good long debate, it ended in a draw, but we both learned something new about the world. That is why I love debate - it is not about belittling the other guy, or proving that your views are right. If you both walk away with a slightly different worldview, then that is a good result.
Not just pride, sometimes, but the idea that your opinion is the only one that matters. Somebody who thinks that they know everything is the greatest fool of all. Sadly, there are too many extremists on the loose - polarization is not a good foundation for debate. I read your comment about that last night, and agree fully - nothing wrong with being moderate.
How did the dissertation go, anyway?
Very well.... I'm done here at Brown, and off to make my way.
Great stuff - are you planning to make a career out of history?
You are welcome here anytime - they have just started excavating Ancient Sparta properly, so there is a lot going on on the area at the moment. Throw in some debate, philosophy and Ouzo, and it is a very good place for a historian to live
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