I changed from question to forum to allow commenters to have more space to express their opinions. I initiated the question, and now forum, to discuss reactions to Michelle Obama's statement at the DNC. Her words: “I wake up every morning in a house that was built by slaves,” Should she have said that her ancestors were forced to help build the White House and their slave owners received payment?
How does Bill O'Reilly know they were fed well and had good accommodations? What did they eat? Where did they sleep?
Should slavery be forgotten? If so, does that mean that the ancestry of African Americans is not important?
I agree with you. Why can't we discuss the race issue so that we can move forward as a nation?
I tried in my circle to talk about it and whenever I approach this topic, I get shut down because they always claim I can't understand them because of the color of my skin - not being black. If that is the case, I just don't see how we can make progress.
Your doing fine, Jack, the fact that you are even willing to listen and understand places you light years ahead of most.
Hi Jackclee! You're in the right place! It's true there are some bitter AAs. That helps nothing. There should be mutual respect. and honest compassionate dialog.
You have met some very strange black people or taken a very aggressive attitude.
I just want to have a conversation with them about how to solve the race problem in our nation... The dialog didn't go very far. I wish it could be different. I am open to suggestions.
Try relaxing a little, try some listening. Leave the hard issues until someone trusts you.
Racism is a deeply upsetting and very personal issue for people on the receiving end.
Frankly, racism extends to every group, from every group. But it is not hard to get past it if you treat people as human beings.
This is not idealism this a practical guide to living in multicultural societies.
Good early morning, Mr. Apse.
You are succinctly correct when you stated that every group has encountered prejudice in one way or another. However, there are some groups who encountered more prejudice than others. In Britain proper, the Irish endured the worst prejudice possible. The Irish were considered personae non gratae by the British. The British instituted the famine in order to starve the Irish. In the recent 20th century, there was a sign in England which stated, No Blacks, no Irish, no dogs." The Irish weren't treated well by the British at all.
Then there are the Jews. In Europe, the Jews encountered prejudice of the horrendous kind. They were viewed as separate from the rest of the population. They were blamed for any imaginable horror. They were considered to be Christ-killers. They were the blame for the bubonic plague. They were placed into ghettoes. Pogroms were instituted against them. The greatest horror came to them in World War II, when 66.66% were exterminated w/some communities wiped out forever.
Yes, all groups encountered prejudice but some groups went through a quite hellish experience. However, people unfortunately have a tribal consciousness. It is a them vs us mentality. Hopefully, humankind will one day progress beyond tribalism.
The Irish are still subject to pathetic racists jibe in the UK, sadly but at least it is merely personal, these days (still hurtful but less dangerous).
Mostly, when you look at officially sanctioned racism of the kind common in the past it is a cover for the economic exploitation of a population.
Nazi propaganda declared Slavs to be sub-human which made it easier to deal with the guilt of stealing land in Eastern Europe and enslaving the populations. British and American slavers declared Africans, Godless savages for the same reason.
Those old ideologies still linger. It helps if white people stop feeling guilt over that period (they were not even born). Without the guilt you can look at history clearly and take an optimistic view. At least a few good people like Wilberforce stood up and changed things.
There is no reason why the present population cannot make some progress too.
Obviously, it is a lot harder for the descendants of those victims of atrocities to forgive and forget.
I think guilt/shame may cause many white Americans to not want to speak of slavery or declare that Africans were involved. Africans' involvement does not justify European or American involvement?
We should be able to discuss slavery without white people feeling guilty. We should not try to make them feel guilty about slavery.
Problem
The real problem now is the actions that flowed from slavery
1. Whites who feel superior to Blacks (will not hire qualified Black people, will say derogatory things about Black people (Michelle Obama looks like a gorilla), etc. There are many hate websites on the internet.
Race-Based Hate and Nazi Sites
Knights of the White Kamelia -- a branch of the KKK; boy are they pissed off!
The White Aryan Resistance -- this site by Tom Metzger, possibly America's best-known racist leader, tells what whites must do to defend themselves from the non-white onslaught. Make sure you check out their issue positions.
Aryan Nation -- another leading white supremacy group
The German National Socialist Party -- the German National Socialists once had a leader that you might have heard of. His name was Adolph Hitler.
Arthur R. Butz -- this associate professor of electrical and computer engineering is the author of The Hoax of the 20th Century, arguing that the Holocaust never happened.
CODOH -- Commitee for Open Discussion of the Holocaust
Nations of Gods and Earths -- anyone can be a racist. This anti-white site claims that white people were invented by a black scientist 6000 years ago
14 Words Press -- What are the 14 words, you ask? "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White Children"
America's Invisible Empire, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan -- this group's title is as wordy as they are stupid
Stormfront -- "a resource for those courageous men and women fighting to preserve their White Western culture."
2. Whites who teach their kids to feel superior to Blacks (this is where the racism perpetuates)
3. Whites who deny that racism exist
There are White people who are honest, decent people who acknowledge racism exist and speak against it. Many of these White people do things to help defy and defeat racism.
Ok. It says because the post is over two months old, I shouldn't reply unless I have new information. What I don't get is, I see stuff written 4 or 5 years ago! I can answer those. Doesn't make any sense to me
What about women? They've been slaves for centuries. Their husbands looked at them as property. Also, native americans
- what are you talking about? Do you know?
It is frustrating for me to not be able to get to first base. How can we make any progress if we can't discuss the issues openly?
Jack, I'm very open. Many times, people don't like what others say and an argument starts. I don't argue. There are some good people here. We may disagree but that is how a conversation gets to be productive. We have to listen to each others point of view and respond honestly. We should all be respectful.
Let's do it!!
Apparently, whoever those people in your own circles are (that shut down the conversation) either did not get the memo about free speech, don't understand the concept of it, or just think they have some special claim to decide who talks about what. OR, they aren't particularly interested in making any progress . Maybe those people are just aggressive.
Then again, in fairness to them (whoever they are in your circles),; if, by any chance, you come across to them as attempting to define their personal, individual, reality/experience by (even appearing to) minimizing it and expecting them to "just move on - and let's never talk about the unpleasantness of your history/roots" then you'd be the one they view as essentially expecting them to shut up and forget that such nastiness ever happened.
Slavery aside, it's not as if things were all that great, particularly in the American South, as recently as the 1950's/1960's; and it's not as if there aren't plenty of people alive today who recall that time or whose parents/grandparents do To me, pointing out all the rotten ways so many other groups have treated throughout history misses the point OR expects too much in terms of "that was then/this is now" from people for whom Racial inequality is/has been very much a part of their own and/or family's experience/history.
I just depends on the individuals in the conversation (as far as who is being more aggressive/arrogant than the other), but I think it also happens when people have the either/or thinking such as, "If you ever mention slavery that must mean you're living in the past and blaming everything on that; while never mentioning it must mean that you don't understand what an awful thing it was".
Personally, I think either/or thinking that people are supposed to outgrow and/or be taught better about (particularly with regard to communication/conversation) is at the root of a whole lot of issues that are not resolved because people get (as you say) "shut down" if they dare to talk about one or another thing.. Well, it's either "either/or" thinking or else it's one/some people presuming to know better about "how things are" than another/some other people...
Worldcrafter, you are on point!
I was born in 1950. I had to sit on the back of the bus. I drank from colored fountains and went to colored bathrooms. Major department stores let colored people shop in the basement only.
Nuns had us on the floor saying the rosary when a group of white kids chased the Little Rock 9 from Central to St. Bartholomew Elementary School. When we saw white kids coming, we had to cross the street because we knew they were going to spit on us or call us n*gg*r. One day a girl said "I'm tired. I'm not going across the street." We all crossed and left her. As white kids approached her and started spitting on her, she pulled out scissors and started swinging. They chased her and a woman opened her car door to let her in.
A white lady I worked with asked me to baby sit. When I pulled up to her house, the 3 kids were frozen as they watched me park The baby girl was afraid to sleep alone so she asked me to lay beside her. When I did, she asked, "Are you a n*gg*r?" The lady was nice at work but it is obvious what she was teaching her children.
Jack, I don't think the problem is that you can't discuss race with black people because you are not black. It’s more that until you demonstrate that you at least comprehend how the world looks to African Americans, who have to deal with race every day of their lives, it’s simply not worthwhile getting into a discussion with you.
Here’s an example of what I mean. Like you, I worked for IBM. I was a development engineer and manager involved in both hardware and software design. Suppose my team was having difficulty solving some engineering problem, and a visiting marketer who once read a book on digital design wanted to start a discussion on the basic principles he thought we needed to understand in order to solve our technical problem. How much time and energy do you think we would invest in having a “discussion” with that marketer when the very “solutions” he offered demonstrated that he didn’t even comprehend the issues we were dealing with?
In your “Role Models” hub you say, “As a Conservative, I am baffled by why some in the black community seem to shun black conservatives.” IMO that fact alone demonstrates why you are not being attended to. Until you have listened enough to African Americans that you can answer questions like that in terms of how most black people see the issue (whether you agree with them or not), you are not qualified to offer solutions. Until you demonstrate that you have made the effort to gain real understanding of how African Americans see the issues you want to discuss, it’s just not worth the time, energy and frustration required to first educate you before you are in a position to offer relevant input.
Ron, he is making progress. It is always difficult to put put yourself in another man's shoes. Since you both worked for the same employer, are there instances where race related matters affected your career with "Big Blue"?
I am open to educating myself on this any time. I like to know what is it about the black experience that makes things so different. My proposed solution in general are color blind. I would tell the same advice to people of all races. That is the Conservative position. Please educate me...I really want to learn.
Jack, I'd like to suggest an article that I think begins to answer your questions about why the African American experience is different and why blacks don't gravitate toward Conservatives/Republicans. I think it gives some insight into the fact that sociological studies show that that somewhere between one-fourth and one-third of African Americans identify themselves as conservative, yet practically none of them vote Republican.
The author is a conservative black PhD student writing in the conservative National Review magazine. I don't agree with everything he says, but I think it's a very thoughtful and mostly valid analysis.
The article is entitled "Yes, Republicans Can Win Black Voters" and can be seen at http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 … id=1519002
It's a long article, but here's several paragraphs to give you a flavor of what it has to say:
"There is no disputing … the GOP has a problem connecting with black voters. . . GOP attempts at black outreach are inconsistent and repeatedly undone by inadvisable strategic communication choices and a basic callousness about the black experience in America. Jeb Bush’s recent comment that he would give African Americans “hope and aspiration” instead of bribing them with “free stuff” is a prime example. This sentiment — one that casts the black electorate as a soulless and indolent bloc up for sale to the highest bidder — is as pervasive among some Republicans as it is spurious.
"Black voters remained true to their principles of civil-rights protections above all else. . . blacks supported Democrats because the Democratic party fought for equality and civil rights in the face of Republican opposition, exemplified by Barry Goldwater’s vocal disapproval of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
"Remove civil rights as an issue and blacks will be more inclined to support the party that best represents their other interests."
Ron, thanks for the referenced article. It was a long piece and I just read it. I see what it is saying and I agree. That is what I've been pushing all along. I am a conservative and I strongly believe conservative principles (not Republican) will be better for our government and for individuals of all races. I had hope we would get past the color issue by now but it should not matter. A good principle should win out based on merit along. If it can work for me, and it can work for Dr. Carson, there is no reason it can't work for anyone else.
Ron good to here from you. I am glad you made the effort to read my other hub. I want to address your criticism of my approach. What I tried to communicate is that role models matters... What I stated is a fact. When black conservatives succeed, they are not treated as heros or role models and are attacked as uncle Tom... This has been true for a very long time. Where as, Jackson and Sharpton has profitted personally from their race stirring and yet the people they claim to help have not improved under their so called leadership. This by the way is happening with the assisstance of the main street media who give them the attemtion they don't deserve. I am open to further discussion on this if you like.
I also propose real solutions that will help. I am not just complaining but offer real concrete steps young people can take to improve themselves...as a retired IBMer, I have traveled all over the world and believe it or not, our country is the best in the world by far, despite our past shortcomings. This is a testament to our people and our Constitution and our character and our goodness.
Jackclee, I must agreee with ronelfan. You sound like you have made yourself an expert on a subject you know nothing about. That can sound very offensive to some people. I'm glad you chose to discuss your position here.
I appreciate everyone for not getting angry. It doesn't matter if I agree with you. I appreciate the dialog.
I'll be happy to learn what you want to teach me. What I need is also a proposed solution. Don't tell me there is none. If that's the case, there is no point discussing anything. If you present your ideas, I can argue the good and the bad and present my ideas...You can do the same with my ideas. That is how we make progress. We take the problem and dissect it and let the merit of the solutions be the guide.
I am a pragmatist. That means I want to see solutions. I don't mind if it cost money. I just want to see positive results. If liberal progressive have a good idea, I will consider it and support it. However, the past has not been good on that front. The very policies have lead to the downfall of many communities including the blacks. Show me where these policies have worked?
1. Girls, all enthnicities, should stop have babies before they can afford to care for them.
2. Society should stop allowing sexual behavior to be the focus. It's everywhere.
a. Actresses and other social elite have have babies they can afford to take care of (Kourtney Kardashian, Jessica Simpson, etc.) AND they can afford them.
b. Inner city youth see it as acceptable because of what they see. I was told I can't have students
they shouldn't have sex. I could tell them they should use birth control.
3. Mothers on welfare must be required to work and balance the welfare check with their pay checks.
4. School rules should be followed (vulgar dress, electronic devices, gang attire, etc.)
5. Parents should be required to visit classrooms and attend PTA (unless they are working) Possibly have 2 PTAs (1 for day parents/1 for night parents
6. Police should be required to get to know the community they work in (some communities are successfuly doing this now. I saw it on Dr. Phil.
7. Community businesses should be given tax breaks for hiring people in the community.
8. Kids should have programs available after school that will teach them team spirit, collaborative skills, confidence, leadership and analytical skills. There are many fun activities that teach these.
9. Teachers should be appreciated, rather than blamed because students do not come to school ready to learn. They come with nasty secrets (molestation and other abuse, homeless, hungry, moving 2 or 3 times during the school year - things people who criticize teachers DON"T KNOW)
10. Possibly have uniforms and separate classes for boys and girls
The majority of inner city school problems start with parenting problems.
I agree with everyone of your proposals... That being said, where are the politicians on this? the teacher's unions? the caring parents?
My ideas and proposals are not much different. It starts with discipline within the home. A home with two parents preferably married.
A government that will not reward bad behavior with welfare checks...
How about some positive role models.
Where are the successful blacks that have made it and give back to the community? with a helping hand.
You won't hear of most of them because they are ordinary people trying to make a difference. They are not interesting enough to cover on nation-wide tv. or world-wide internet.
Also, you don't hear of the Black kids who graduate #1 in their classes. I post them on my Facebook page when I find them. Have you heard of the Black boys school in Chicago where all of the senior class was accepted into college for three years straight. That's not news. Just checked - 7th year in a row
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/100 … 9df6aa5aaa It would help for this to blow up on the internet.
People want to hear about gang fights, shootings, etc.
I could post links to many, many Black kids who graduated with a 4.0 and a high SAT score, graduated from high school at 15, graduated from college at 19 but that is not interesting.
"Possibly have uniforms and separate classes for boys and girls."
Yes, perhaps so. This suggestion is ahead of its time.
Yeah, no one listened to me. I was too old. What did I know?
When I was going to school on Taiwan in the 1960s, everyone wore uniforms. It was a good policy.
At the all boys Black school in Chicago, they wear uniforms and they are always told why they are here. They have a pledge that they repeat at the beginning of every day.
They dress the same so there is no peer pressure about the latest clothing fads. The way they dress reminds them of their goals.
This is taking place in the City that is notorious for gangs and shootings.This school should be modeled all over the country.
By the way, In my various hubs, I actually present solution proposals.
http://hubpages.com/politics/Improving- … ca_Hubbook
Take any of my ideas and tell me why they are wrong? or missed the mark?
Let's get specific. I'll take on any topic you choose. If I don't know the answer, I will do the research and get a solution. The answers may not always be what you want to hear...
Diane, why don't we make it easier to move forward. Why don't you list 3 things that you think I don't get about the black community?
I'll take those into consideration.
If I am wrong, I will readily admit it and appolgize.
If, perhaps, I do know what I'm talking about, from my 60+ years of life experience, and world travels, would you at least consider what I am proposing and not dismiss them?
I think this a fair arraangement.
I hope I gave you enough points to discuss. You don't need experience from all over the world to deal with people, some of which have never been to the beach. Many haven't been outside their local living area.
There have been many Black entertainers that left the United States because of prejudice and had successful careers in Europe.
As an African American I feel the vision has been lost from when I grew up. We were always asked what we wanted to be when we grew up, get an education so we wouldn't have to wash and clean for white people, and get an education so you can take care of yourself rather than depend on a no good man. Young Black people have no idea of what we went through. Many in the inner city aspire to be rappers. It is so frustrating.
Ron, I wrote a new hub in response to your comments.
http://hubpages.com/politics/If-I-was-a … in-America
Please educate me as to what I'm not getting from a Black perspective.
What proposed solutions are in error in your opinion?
How would I do differently, if I was black?
I really like to understand.
All my life, I never let race be my only perception. I prefer to be color blind like MLK...
Read about what happened to the black culture after it was released from slavery!!!! Thats all you need to do! This is where we, society, dropped the ball. Whoever can recommend books / literature regarding this time in history, it would be greatly appreciated.
Please explain. I must have missed that in my American History class. What happened that would prevent today's blacks from doing what I propose?
Read!!!! GO back in time and put yourself in the position of being newly released from slavery!!!
You have been nothing but a worker. Your mind is uncultivated. Your hands know only labor. Your body knows only obedience and whippings. Your soul knows only the love of your wife, kids and friends who are also used, abused and disrespected and removed from you at whim. You have been treated worse than the family dog. WORSE!!!!
Now some of the more advanced slave owners kept families together and fed them well, but those were probably few and far between…
And then you are declared free. You have no idea how to make money, how to find shelter for yourself, how to get work and how to survive. You have been kept in the dark. Now you must live in the light of freedom and independence … with a M I N D that has never learned how to survive on its own. And then add the human frailty toward prejudice, anger, confusion as far as white acceptance of blacks and having to deal with these reactions. It's not hard to understand.
And that was not that long ago in the scheme of things.
On the other hand, that was a pretty long time ago.
Freedom, protected by the Constitution and guaranteed for ALL, has been very beneficial to a great many.
Yes, that happened 150 years ago. What does that have to do with what is going on now?
If I remembber my Bible study, the Jews were enslaved for generations in Egypt...
They seem to thrive today. What's the difference?
Jew have their issues too. It is hard to get away from the past. It can be done. It must be done. It's up to individual families. They must overcome negativity. They allow themselves to be enslaved and affected by a negative mindset. It is purely imaginary, however. That is the amazing thing. They have the key to freedom and positivity and self empowerment but they don't know it. It is the problem of passing these things on generation after generation. The key of course is in realizing one's true nature: Pure and whole and a child of God. Education, self education, love of life and having interests, obtaining the skills necessary to survive in the world ... these things can be focused on. Its up to individuals, their families and their communities. I'm not advocating segregation at all. Communities generally love their own no matter who is in it.
TWISI
Jack, 150 years is a little different from 3-4 millennia ago.
If you are trying to get us all to admit that we bear some of the blame for our situation in AMERICA, you are right. But, while we bear some of the blame, we shouldn't and do not bear all of it.
In America, Jews are basically white people, making their assimilation and acceptance within the general population far easier.
Please don't take offense Jackclee, but when I read your comment this is what I heard: I am trying hard to pander to the race issue and convey my empathy towards AAs but they do not accept me: what's wrong with them?
I'm sorry you got that feeling but you are wrong.
I am not pandering to anyone. As a Conservative, I have my principles.
I am honestly trying to find a solution to our race problem that seems to never get resolved.
I could easily drop this and ignore it like so many others...
I am retired, living in the suburbs, far from the problems that plague the inner cities.
I am financially secure and could easily spend all time playing golf and traveling and enjoy my hard earned retirement.
I do some of that but I also love to write and love to tackle problems...
If you read some of my hubs, I write about many topics and I have a whole hubbook on ideas of fixing things that are broken...
I am working on another hub that addresses what a poor youth can do today.
The problem seems to me to be tow fold. A society that is too timid to touch this topic, like the third rail.
And, the people who are most affected, the blacks. Some of whom refused to allow any conversation or suggestions for moving forward. They harp on the slavery and the injustices of the past which happened over 150 years ago.
What I try to do is to not so much forget the past but forgive the past. In addition, how do we move forward to improve the situation. There is no good reason that in 2016, some people and kids have to live in fear of gun shots and violence and drugs and gangs in their neighborhoods.
How do we help those people move out of that environment?
There is an answer, but unfortunately, it is drowned out by BLM and OCW and the Rainbow Coalition... Meanwhile, real Conservatives like the people who I cited as role models are not b wing heard.
"They harp on the slavery and the injustices of the past which happened over 150 years ago.
What I try to do is to not so much forget the past but forgive the past. In addition, how do we move forward to improve the situation.
*There is no good reason that in 2016, some people and kids have to live in fear of gun shots and violence and drugs and gangs in their neighborhoods."
+1
There must be some BAD reason… lets look at that!!!!!!
Good isolating the difficulty, Jackclee Im!
At the end of the 2nd World War hundreds of thousands of highly skilled Black workers were laid off : Replaced by Whites returning from the war. Twenty years later forced integration ended 4 decades of slow but evolving movement towards true equality and put fifty-thousand highly educated Black teachers and professors out of work. 150 years ago what?
Today the AA Community is being exploited for use as a voting block instead of a cheap labor force, and no-one including Liberals want to address the real problem.
Please address the real problem. I'd love to hear it.
1.1 trillion dollars in direct compensation for AA's born on or before December 31st 1964. 2.7 trillion in funding for re-establishment of families and extended families, including relocation and property awards as options.
Why? To finish what was left undone 150 years ago and the injustice and repression that has persisted. I Love your posts DT.
You are too kind Setank! Thank you!
I've got to marinade on this for a while. I'll get back to you.
Yummy, marinade, now I'm hungry.
I just got my first hub published: Would you PLEASE go to it and give me your feed back. Does it suck or not suck. It is in Political Corruption. I don't know how to do those blue clicky things yet. The title is RNC, DNC Corruption.
Hi! IMHO, your title should be something about voting for write-in candidates and telling why.
Next talk about why Dems are a bad option (2nd par.)
Next talk about why Reps are a bad option (3rd par.)
Next talk about collusion/dysfunction of both (4th par.)
Conclusion, going back to encouragement to write in and tell why
Give examples people can relate to in all cases. That's were you hook them in.
Your language is colorful and fun but does not appeal to the average "Joe" who wants a straight forward read to comment on. You can give an example and then relate to one of the situations you currently address.
-------
My comments based on my understanding that both parties are corrupt and having write-ins will be a solution. I really don't think write-ins will be a solution because you have to have buy-in from a huge segment of peole. Example: Most REPS and Independents HATE Trump. Suggest a well known person who should be written in.
I'd write a 2nd hub showing the strengths of that one person for write in. For it to work, you have to do a social media blitz that will catch on. It's a great idea. It might lead to appearance on a couple of shows for you.
BUT Who? Who? Who?
"Next talk about why Dems are a bad option (2nd par.)
Next talk about why Reps are a bad option (3rd par.)"
Left Wing, Right Wing, both QUITE UNREASONABLE extremists.........
If anything is given, at all, I think there should be guidelines. Money should not be put in the hands of people who will blow it away. If the money would have given at the time it was proposed, the United States could be a different place.
Any money should for 1) education, 2) thoroughly planned and efficiently run businesses, 3) jobs, 4) monitored rehabilitation, and 5) revitalization of blighted areas.
I won't say much more. I don't want to be accused of asking for reparations. Neither do I want to put a lot of though into "pie in the sky."
Responsibility should be the theme
I was unaware of these things that happened after World War 2. Thank you! i will check them out.
The voting block thing does not work for me. I do know what you are talking about. It's like someone tells us all what to think. I know there are some churches that are used for political platforms. It's amazing how politicians are allowed to speak to the congregations during the church services.
I don't attend churches like that. i am an independent thinker.
Nothing insidious meant. AA's, Evangelicals, Latinos, College Students, and even Women in general are all considered voting blocks. But the corrupt political process of generic labeling and division is a subject for another blog.
I don't remember what you said that you think is offensive. I've learned to not get upset because it affects rationale. Don't worry about it.
It annoys me that people go to church for status and power rather than a relationship with God. That was my point.
I don't consider myself exploited, I have plenty of good reasons to consistently avoid the GOP and conservative ideology.
I feel like "people of color" shut down with the topic of race not due to the color of the person's skin who is asking or brought up the topic, but because of the pain that was never healed that still lurks within. Especially since to most people of color, the issue still exist. I think a good place to start for non colored people interested in making an attempt to get over that conversational hurdle would be too start with - "I'm sorry!"..... I'm sorry for what my ancestors have done and for what you are still dealing with regarding racial discrimination"....... and them proceed to discuss. Years and generations of pain cannot be approached with any expectation, only with an open ear and heart, and the willingness to sympathize and help make it better.
Hi Melange! I have known white people to do that. It tore down an imaginery wall that really needed to be down for an open discussion. I think we shouldn't approach white people in anger because that cause that wall to turn to steel for some people. By doing that, you place the person on defensive and the discussion shifts to "I didn't do it!", "You are a part of it!", etc.
That is an intimate discussion that can better take place once you have gotten to know some one. You trust each other on one level but not completely. Over time, going through things, a trust relationship can develop to lead to such a discussion.
I'm thinking I should have elaborated on what I consider a productive discussion. It's good to get history out because that sets the background; however, it seems like we devolve into sarcasm sometimes.
I see you are from the Carribbean.
When we keep touching wounds, we don't allow them to heal - and that's in the nutshell my message in my hub "Historical Neuroticism". It's defying the model of psychoanalysis, where the sufferers keep digging into their past and re-experiencing the past trauma, while hoping that such action will set them free.
Well, African Americans are not likely to snap out of slavery, at least in their minds and hearts for as long as they keep discussing it. Racism was an idiocy of some generations that are gone forever, just like what Hitler's Germany did to Jews is not the part of our present reality..
I personally find strange the idea that nowadays Caucasians should feel "ashamed", or "guilty" for racism. In a way it's also ridiculous, because in that case they would feel guilt for something that they didn't do.
Reasoning like that is similar to the one about French folks feeling "guilty" for what Napoleon did to Europe. So, if we can move on with life in case of a Napoleon, an Attila the Hun, a Hitler, and other power hungry idiots of history - why do we have to feel so stuck with racism?
No one is saying that it should be "forgotten". Just like in an individual case of an adult with bad childhood memories - he doesn't have to start "denying" those traumatic experiences as past events of his life, but he doesn't have to let them contaminate his positive emotional involvement with his world.
I honestly can't see the point of suffering on behalf African ancestors, or blaming the present Caucasians for something that their ancestors did. Racism is an idiocy of those who are probably accepting as true those jokes about "stupid blondes".
As long as we have someone like Obama in White House, and someone like Oprah Winfrey being one of the richest women in the world - no one can pin racism on Caucasians of 21st century. Why perpetuate the spirit of slavery by talking about it? Can this world yank itself out from the stranglehold of our stupid history and start proving that we can do better? Can we stop playing on "poor-me" card and advance ourselves to a level where skin colors don't matter, like Obama did, like Oprah did, and so many other successful Africa Americans did? If they did not obsess about history - not that they didn't know it - why should all the others? What's the emotional pay-off?
Val, it sounds like you are equating slavery with racism. They are not the same. Racism is alive today. A prime example is the topic I started with. Michelle Obama talked about living in the White House which was built by slaves. Immediately O'Reilly didn't want to accept that.
When he saw that slaves were involved, he then said, a) they ate good, b) the accommodations were good, and c) they were paid. Slaves were not paid; their owners were paid. You only need to go to Monticello to see how they lived. They ate left overs. That's how we started eating chitterlings, chicken feet, hog testicles, etc.
One only need look at the comments under articles on the internet to see racist comments made. If you'd like I can pull up examples.
I didn't want this to be about slavery. I wanted it to be about racism. KKK David Duke Alt Right
You can't forget what you face on a daily basis. The intelligent thing to do is deal with it.
Unfortunately, what is denied cannot be corrected. An alcoholic has to admit that he is an alcoholic to get help. When I was young, I resolved to get a good education and be independent. That doesn't protect me from racism. It does help me to deal with it in an intellient manner. As I go through various challenges, I trust God who goes through the crises with me. I recognize that the evil is a heart matter. I can't change how someone else acts. I can change my response.
Diane, what was it you told me once? You were hired as one of the first Black employees at a major firm, as an accountant. This was supposed to be a big deal and your qualifications were always suspect by your peers even though you had a college degree and most of them did not. None of that seem relevant to them. I went through the same circumstance when I was first hired for my upward mobility position.
Not even accountant Credence2. "Accounting assistant" was what I was hired as. A white colleague told me "You should be glad you have a job." She was proud that she had the job. She had graduated high school - no college.
No one ever considers the possibility that you could have higher expectations because you were better educated and better prepared?
This came in the other day that sheds a little light on this in a tangential way.
I have a sister who married a heir to a prominent retail outlet, no longer in business, but whose name everybody would know instantly.
His mother recently died and he had written an article about her participation in the sport of badminton, (for example). The article is ok, but would have a narrow audience, naturally. But, he told me that the article was to be published in "badminton today", the prominent publication for the sport's aficionados.
I told him that even if I wrote a similar account that was better than his, nobody is interested in Credence2's mother. The only reason he gets published was due to his celebrity and that of his family. And the biggest shock is that neither he nor my sister gave that any thought to that possibility. Much of this is just an example of the unspoken reality behind much of our current debate.
Diane - I certainly empathize with you and with every black person who encountered problems generated by racism. However, if we would care to look at the broader picture, we might see nearly as many dramas as there are people, regardless of their skin color.
At times we get to witness how a white dude who doesn't make it in life gets called "a loser", while the black dude of the equal misfortune gets called "a victim of a predominantly white society". You show me a black person "who didn't get a job", and I'll show you a white one who didn't get it. My wife worked in a bank for 30 years and in quite a few occasions a black person would ask her to "bend the rules for her" - and when my wife refused, the woman said "I know, it's because I am black".
We could only afford two children, while it's a trend for black women to have several without the father anywhere around to support them - so guess what, they will get a welfare, and statistically it's more likely for them to qualify than for a white person.
Am I by any chance talking like a "racist" here? I hope not, because there is no racist bone in me. I am simply saying that hardships in life are universal, not merely traceable to racism, and that sentiment of victimhood is not either, because many folks of all races feel that society and politicians are ignoring their needs.
It's just too simple and easy to put a label on the source of our suffering.
Again, yes, racism exists - maybe not only one way either.
I do believe you do not have to be white to be a racist.
You came late to the conversation. We've been going for over a month.
1. Numerically, there are more white people on welfare than Black people.
2. Numerically, there are moer white people on food stamps than Black people.
http://madamenoire.com/515370/stereotyp … ps-blacks/
3. When we discuss race, what is the import of welfare programs.
I hate to rehash - My dad with 8th grade education prided himself on taking care of his family working on steady job and odd jobs to make sure the bills were paid.
4. When there are problems to be solved, the best way to do it is to get to the root of the problem.
There may be 100,000 unemployed people. They are not all unemployed for the same reasons.
5. People who are not racist don't have to say it. The way they handle a discussion speaks volumes.
I responded to what you wrote. Your response in turn has me baffled. The majority, if not all, of the people in this discussion have college educations at a minimum. Racism should not be restricted to the unqualified Black people that just want handouts. There are those of all colors who want handouts.
Diane - I wish I could understand how is that argument about "my coming late to the discussion" relevant, or even proving me wrong.
It's even harder to understand what the educational level of the participants has to do with anything - unless you are implying that educational level is an automatic proof of "being right", which would be quite snobbish, don't you think so?
Furthermore, why are you mentioning your father and his supporting the family? Is that supposed to be taken as "typical", or what was the other purpose of it?
Then, the fact that there are "more white folks on welfare than blacks" says nothing, as the total number of blacks is only a fraction of the population.
By the way, yes, it IS necessary for one to emphasize that they are not racist - otherwise they may quickly "become one" by merely asking some uncomfortable questions.
And finally, I am gracefully and respectfully removing myself from any further participation - and your being "baffled" by my responses is giving me a hint that I won't be missed. This way you may continue to hear more of what you prefer hearing. Wishing you the best - Val
Val, Don't be so sensitive
I think I need to copy/past to respon appropriately
You wrote
Diane - I certainly empathize with you and with every black person who encountered problems generated by racism. However, if we would care to look at the broader picture, we might see nearly as many dramas as there are people, regardless of their skin color.
At times we get to witness how a white dude who doesn't make it in life gets called "a loser", while the black dude of the equal misfortune gets called "a victim of a predominantly white society". You show me a black person "who didn't get a job", and I'll show you a white one who didn't get it.
My response
Your 2nd paragraph shows that you clearly don't understand. The example Credence2 had me restate was about my job as an accounting assistant. My co-worker - white, high school education
me - Black, BBA in Business administration and 15 hours of accounting
You wrote
My wife worked in a bank for 30 years and in quite a few occasions a black person would ask her to "bend the rules for her" - and when my wife refused, the woman said "I know, it's because I am black".
My response
"bend the rules for her" - I remembered as a handout I addressed it below
You wrote
We could only afford two children, while it's a trend for black women to have several without the father anywhere around to support them - so guess what, they will get a welfare, and statistically it's more likely for them to qualify than for a white person.
My response
This sounds like welfare. I have never had children. That's why I quoted statistics below
You wrote
Am I by any chance talking like a "racist" here? I hope not, because there is no racist bone in me. I am simply saying that hardships in life are universal, not merely traceable to racism, and that sentiment of victimhood is not either, because many folks of all races feel that society and politicians are ignoring their needs.
My response
This sounds like a dismissal of my reality. I do not consider myself a victim and am proud of my accomplishments.
You wrote
It's just too simple and easy to put a label on the source of our suffering.
Again, yes, racism exists - maybe not only one way either.
My response
This sounds like I am unable to identify the source when I am hearing specific words, identifying symptoms and making informed opinions. That is what you are taught to do in college and job professional development. In order to make decisions on jobs, especially dealing with other people, you have to have the critical thinking skills to make those assessments.
You can forget this part. I wrote it before I decided to copy/paste/respond
Coming late - That means I am repeating myself to others
educational level - That was with regard to qualifications. Your wife worked at the bank. A lot of Black people came wanted special consideration -
welfare - I thought you brought up welfare. If you didn't, I'm sorry.
My father working - He was an honest, hard working man who took care of his family and all attendant responsibiities. He didn't want "handout" He did raise us to want handouts.
We are supposed to have a productive discussion. I attempted to move us from slavery because I didn't want anyone to feel that this was about slavery. I want us to discuss the last 100 years (I think that was Wilderness' idea. I think it is a great idea.)
I would like for you to stay. But please understand that each of us have our own reality. Credence2 and I met at odds on another issue. We don't agree on everything but we understand each other.
Same with Live and Wilderness. We all have our own quirks.
I might go overboard in explaining but that is part of who I am. Chunk-chew-check is the new term but music teachers have done this for years.
It concerns me when people say, "color doesn't matter!" when they have not experienced living in color.
It concerns me when people say, "get over it!" when there are people who interact with me in ways to demonstrate that they think "I am less than or not as smart."
I can't dismiss the reality of my life and I am not complaining about it. I explain how I deal with the reality.
Diane - Let me start with your last sentence : "I explain how I deal with the reality".
Without trying to sound too philosophical about it (I like thinking of myself as a pragmatic dude) - what the heck is "reality", Diane, other than someone's mind construct? Since two people can't agree about what it is - and this discussion is somewhat proving it - its true meaning is up for grabs.
Late Robbin Williams said it prophetically : "Reality? Hmmm, an interesting concept". For concept it is, and our linear minds can only conceptualize about things, not grasp their essence.
What "racism" may mean to you - according to your personal experience is pretty much locked within that experience, because no one else had in their life an exact copy of it - since you are not a duplicate of anybody else.
So, at our best we can philosophize ad nauseam about an abstract, "generalized racism", hoping that we are talking about the same thing.
To me, racism might as well be just a state of mind that's a subject to my ability to transcend it into an opportunity, maybe even a challenge to show the world what metal I am made of. Because that's the ultimate parameter of my evaluating my status in this world - how people's reactions to me can make me grow. Not cataloging an inventory of how they may be hurting me.
That's why you see me throwing into this discussion this radical assertion about a self-destructive motive behind listing down all perils and evils of racism.
In the good tradition of my favorite est (Erhard Seminars Training) position, I am tempted to ask a black sufferer : Why are you doing it to yourself? For no one can walk into your brain to push some buttons there and tell you how you should feel about yourself as a black person - it's all of your own make.
Now, Diane, are you still sure you want me to stay here in this discussion?
Are you serious??? YES! Of course I want you to stay.
Now, assuming you wanted a response to what you wrote:
In the good tradition of my favorite est (Erhard Seminars Training) position, I am tempted to ask a black sufferer : Why are you doing it to yourself? For no one can walk into your brain to push some buttons there and tell you how you should feel about yourself as a black person - it's all of your own make.
My response
I am not doing anything to myself! A reality that many white people who pass age 40 will appreciate age discriminaiton. It is not a brain construct. It is a reality. If you are not a member of aarp.org, I highly recommend it.
When you get to a certain age, people leave you out of discussions and decision-making, assume that you don't know the latest stategies and techniques, and consider you a prime suspect to reduce the budget. After all, they can hire at least 2 recent college graduates for what they have paid you.
Reality to me is the actual factual things that happen and can be documented. When you have documented facts and say iit's not true, that's fantasy.
I'm glad you decided to stay!
Diane - At a risk of making it look like a game of words, allow me to say that you are mixing factual circumstances with reality. In everyday jargon they are used as synonymous to one another, but they are not - if we are to upgrade discussion beyond the jargon uses.
Reality is what we psycho-physically create out of impersonal factual circumstances.
It's a circumstance that we lose our importance to the work force after a certain age. Now, we have a simple choice - to go reactive or proactive about it, and that will determine our reality. By itself, that fact means nothing. Just like by itself it means nothing that someone is looking down on you because of your being black, or any other color for that matter. It's what you make of it is what matters, what becomes "real" for you. Not in the jargon context of "real-vs. imagined", but "impersonal vs. personal".
If you opt for being re-active, you may lose your sleep over it, protest, grow a stomach ulcer, get a high blood pressure...your choice. Or you can assess the situation and use that "bitching" energy for something constructive, like guess what - finding another job. Not easy at that age? Who ever said that life has to be easy, and as soon as we get pissed off, the Lady Fortune has to cater to our wishes.
But, using all that enormous negative energy of re-acting for something pro-active, we would be surprised how much can be done.
I know it from my own experience. I lost the best job of my life at the age of 45, and my initial reaction was - well, a reaction, and the medical term for it was "pissed off big time". The way I am (trained in my mind), I bounced back before you know it. With something almost "spooky" following certain mindset which didn't have the word "victim" in it - I was back in the work force in no time. And that was MY reality, while some other dude from the old company who also lost his job ended up having a reality of a male babysitter, while his wife, thrilled with situation had to find the second job - and that was HIS reality.
Thus, I am still sticking to my guns saying that "nothing in life has a suchness until we give it one" - the words that I wrote in an essay when I was 16.
You don't get off this easy, Val!! I need to understand your point of view. Right now we are reduced to he said, she said. Statistical data from credible sources can move the points we make beyond mere individual personal experiences. Let's move it from the subjective to the objective so that we can speak about apples and apples. Are you open to that because, I and, I am sure, Diane can identify these.
These are difficult issues to discuss, but the air needs to br cleared and I need to hear from everybody, all sides. If I have an issue with a position taken by anyone, I will either find objective sources to refute it or I will just sit down. Nerves are going to be touched in this process, we only learn by these kinds of exchanges. Val, I note that you are Canadian. I have visited 7 or 8 provinces over the last few years. In my travels, it seemed that this matter is far less contentious there. But, Calgary is different from Montreal, the latter being more cosmopolitan, and that follows as more racially tolerant and accepting. But the scale needs to consider the fact that the Canadian model certainly is not the AMERICAN one How much do you really know about the racial animus that has been part of AMERICAN History? Fate seems to have spared Canada from this experience to the same extent.
How does your experience as an Canadian add to this discussion, perhaps being outside the fray allows you to see what we are all blinded to?
Credence2, I think Val was a philosophy major or he gets high.
Credence - Here you are expressing a "need to understand my point", and it seems that you are stuck around "subjective vs. objective". You are also backing up your "objective" position with something like "statistics".
Let me ask you something, but prepare yourself not to like it. Are you living your life, or you are living some numbers, some data about the society you live in? Are you a breathing and thinking person or a label - like an American, a critic, a Christian(?), a democrat(?)...whatever?
What makes your definition of racism more plausible than mine - is it just the fact that you live there and I live in Canada? My friend, we are all incredibly selective about how we interpret that collection of information we get from the media. Whatever we say, we have to mix it with our own saliva, it's not an absolute copied from an engraved stone.
You say that the "air has to be cleared" - and I am not sure if you see that I have been doing it all along. Can you see my point - you may have all "objective sources" in the world, and that "objectivity" means nothing until you give it some meaning in your life. Otherwise we are just kicking some sterile crap consisting of some impersonal numbers. How more clear does it get?
I am not living the life of a society, but only my own. By getting "informed" (which is also very questionable and highly selective) I am not living other people's lives more, just learning selective stories about them. What I do with that fund of information is up to me.
American or Canadian history is at its best exactly that - his-story. How do I benefit from knowing it? Am I becoming more competent to interpret the realities of millions of people of the past and present? I didn't know any of them, they are as good as an abstraction, so who of us is talking abstract stuff here?
I have been trying to put on realistic legs some truisms of life - emphasizing that at the end of the day you are not a historian, but a human being joggling with concepts in your own personalized way - doing something to your life with all that stuff that you are calling "objective".
And as soon as you find another use for that information, your reality will change. Or it will stay the same - again up to you, not up to anything in that "objective world". Statistics are not dictating you anything.
I hope I have given that "subjective" concept a little more weight and significance.
Of course I am living my life but I am not oblivious to those others that are denied equal opportunity to live theirs as I do. Just because my life was not derailed by these things does not mean I do not have an obligation to promote a society where equality of opportunity is the foremost standard. I am who I am. Shouldn't I be interested that everybody have the ability to live their lives to the fullest?
I don't know that we really had a discussion on your concept of racism verses mine. You seem to imply that it is a figment of our imagination? That sounds intriguing from a philosophers perspective, but how about real life examples. We have disparities in law enforcement and criminal justice applications that adversely work against Blacks, this is statistical. Am I to ignore that because it has no immediate affect on my personal life, even though I can never know when I could find myself in its clutches? The issues here regarding equitable enforcement of the law are more than just imaginary. You don't see blond females, while the butt of jokes, consistently being adversely treated in seeking employment or unjustifiably paying higher interest rates for a mortgage just because they are blond, white females?
I hear what you are saying, that life has adverse surprises for us all. I can't deny that. But apologists for the racism that remains, although less overt, like to make the issue amorphous, thus relieving themselves of the responsibility to properly identify and work to address inequities in our society that come from this source.
However, No, I am not whining......
I confess that I am having a hard time understanding.
Val, Obama and Oprah were successful inspite of racism. You speak of it as if it no longer exists, but alas, it is still here.
That does not mean that racism cannot be overcome, but it takes energy. Comparable to escaping the earth's gravitational well. But, I may be exaggerating a bit, but you get the point. We get tired of having to climb Mt Everest, when others just have to step over the local ant hill to reap the same outcome.
Credence - Of course racism still exists, but my point was that without slavery or social obstacles to anyone's success it's more of a "phantom of the past" hanging around promoted by those whose opinion shouldn't be taken seriously. To borrow my mentioned parallel with blondes - should every blond woman develop an inferiority complex because there are jokes made about them? Or, should every Democrat feel "threatened" because there are folks of conservative orientation around? Likewise, if someone gives you a bad comment on your hub, because you are not writing "to his literary taste" - should you stop writing altogether, or even try to write for his taste?
My point is that we can't please everyone in this world with our looks, minds, our singing voice, etc. - but that should not be a signal to us that "something is wrong with us". Racism is a nonsense, and it should be treated that way, not given so much publicity as it is enjoying.
Val, thanks for your sane and reasoned dialogue here.
We have a major party presidential candidate that uses these abrasive issues to promote his campaign. And he seems to be doing quite well. That's a 'big opinion' and I have to take it seriously.
The issue is more about the 'attitudes', the racially based presumptions we make about one another that influences our behavior toward each other.
I have worked hard to not allow racism to become a crux or excuse for my not achieving my objectives, but I would be dishonest if I did not say that it played the role as substantial headwinds during the journey.
You seem to imply that the concept is just incidental, I am saying that it more substantial than that, based on my experience.
I think it is hard for one to comprehend who has not been through it or witnessed it. Because I lived in the Jim Crow south, I met white people who were perceptive and able to see racism taking place. I wrote about my beloved Ida Webb Moose who helped me on my journey. She made it a mission to hire Black girls to work on her college work-study program.
Many who saw what she was doing were furious. A Black man who was Director of Office of Economic Opportunity used to park behind my car in the morning. I had to wait for him to move his car in order for me to go to my college classes. The Director of Education had the goverment to do an audit on the College Work-Study Program because they couldn't understand what she was doing.
I agree with most of what you said but the emotional payoff you ask about is quite heady. The one who continuously wants to ensure everyone understands they are descended from the bloodline which was wronged in the past can claim everything from a moral high ground by 'forgiving us' (as if we bear some guilt) to justifying not succeeding in life.
And, if you aren't a blood relative you can join the bandwagon by just crying along. And the great thing is those of us with mixed blood can reap the benefits as well by choosing to identify with only one of our ancestral bloodlines.
There can be a downside but as long as you ride the wave of moral superiority by being distantly related to someone wronged you get to feel as if you are special because someone, somewhere, sometime in the distant past who you can reasonably assume you might be related to got shafted by life.
Apparently it is impossible for many of you here to present an argument without first erecting a strawman to pin it on. I am an educated, and successful person. And on this count, I am not unique among the minority community. With the encouragement of my parents, I have been a student of Indigenous and Black History since before the age of puberty. I am obviously articulate, I have succeeded as a professional musician, which is a very challenging occupation, I have traveled around the world , and I have enjoyed the attention of many beautiful women, as well as many women who were not so beautiful, but also deserving of good company. Recognizing the evil of systemic racism has improved my self-esteem, as I can hold my head up, knowing that I have not made a fool of myself, or dishonored my ancestors by embracing an evil empire. Understanding the evil of America has only made me stronger, and more determined to free all men, white and black, from mental slavery. Because once the mind is free, the rest is sure to follow.
As I have already commented earlier, evil does not come to men of goodwill as a matter of karmic debt, but evil comes of it's own accord. The African and the Indigenous do not magically manifest racism simply through the remembrance of an old misery. Nor do they manifest racism by shouting it from the rooftops. Such a nonsensical belief is itself a racist notion. You have attempted to equate an existential personal trauma with the effects of systemic racism. It really doesn't matter how someone feels about themselves, how much love they have in their heart, or how intelligent and motivated they are. If they are living in a racist society, it is that society which determines the flow of money, where the person shall live, and the frequency and severity of mental and physical abuse.
Racism is Satanic in origin, and is manifested from the heart of white America. And racism continues to be perpetuated by white Americans against both the African and the Indigenous. It is the white man who continues to suffer from this disease, which is why I have brought the medicine here. But their are many today who are sowing the seeds of deception in an attempt to perpetuate the racist myth that the darker races are weak minded, unable to overcome the past, and unable to compete with the "superior" white race. But in this thread I have continued to expose this fallacy.
Not one of my opponents have been able to provide an intelligent argument to refute the truth I have so generously, and without appropriate compensation, delivered. Oh Yes! They are quite adept when it comes to hurling insults in my direction. But their rebuttals, are filled with strawmen, and the predictable racist perspectives that have been making the rounds for many years. And now I see you have entered the fray as the "voice of reason" ... with your "scientific proof". Your commentary reminds of a man who is suffering from a heart attack being told how he can improve his condition by switching to Crest, and brushing his teeth after every meal! For $500.00, I'll take: Is there a place the sun doesn't shine?
Well, if nothing else that "scientific proof" is far superior to the faux "truth" that only those with white skin can be racists. THAT one is obviously no more than a rationalized excuse for exhibiting racism without being labeled a racist.
There are indeed many that are "sowing the seeds of deception" in order to perpetuate racism.
Unlike many of the cowards I have encountered throughout my life. I do not need an excuse to hide behind. This thread is about discussing racism. As I have stated, the color of racism is white. Not just here in America, but throughout the world, as the architects of racism (The European Aristocracy and the Catholic Church) were also white. I had nothing to do with that, nor do the frail sensibilities of many white Americans keep me awake at night.
Since the African and the Indigenous were strong enough to survive and thrive after over 500 years of white racist oppression, then white America will have to be strong enough to listen to the details, at least for the next 500 years. Trust and believe, there are many in the movement who are bound,determined, and dedicated to the cause of de-colonization. We do not really care who apologizes, or how guilty anyone feels. We are in the process of reclaiming our identity. America has nothing to do with who we are, and we will be here long after America has turned to rust.
I listened to Bill 'oReilly's discussions of this I did not get the impression that he was an advocate of slavery, just quoting what is was that George Washington had written regards to how the White House was built. I usually am not much for O'Reilly, as much of his commentary is BS. But, I won't castigate him, if he does not deserve it.
As for slavery, I have forgiven, but I can more forget than to expect the Jews to forget the Nazi haulocast, if for no other reason than to prevent its reenactment in a future time.
Hi Credence2! Good to hear from you!
What gave me pause is that there was disbelief that the slaves were involved? Whenever there was manual labor, that was what the slaves were for?
I don't know what George Washington considered eating good or having good accommodations. They thought so little of slaves that whatever was good enough for slaves but I'm sure would not have been suitable for the slave owners.
Ditto, Diane, pretty gutsy of you to offer this thread. Also, you have attracted some good participation. This is the place to be honest and candid and keep it all above board.
George Washington probably indicated that the slave labor was treated as well as in at the time in the completion of their task. How good that was can only be evaluated when compared with other sort of laborers.
I'm posting this in response to a common racist myth that black people "just can't make it, but everybody else can". Historically, black people have been disproportionately in the lower income brackets simply because of institutionalized racism. The Irish, the Chinese, and no other group, save for the First Nations, has ever been discriminated against more than black people.
In the mind of the white mainstream, the media has served to make the black experience synonymous with the inner city ghetto. But in reality, that is only one aspect of the black experience. I grew up in a farming community in the mid-west. A great majority of the black people there were farmers. Others worked in factories, or meat packing plants. I knew very few black families who were poor. I had black relatives who were farmers. Most of them lived in nice houses surrounded by acres and acres of farm land. I remember going to black churches as a child. Bethel AME, and a Church of God In Christ. The parking lots of the churches were always filled with shiny new cars, and it was rare to see anyone pull up in a junker.
The latter church was always packed, and sometimes it got so loud the church would start to vibrate, as if it was a rocket on a launching pad about to take off. It was a wonderful experience for a child, because I was fascinated with music and rhythm at an early age. Many of the black farmers listened to country music as much as they listened to Marvin Gaye. And except for the color of their skin, it was hard to distinguish some of them from the rednecks. The point is, the stereotypes of black people that have been promoted in the media have permeated the consciousness of the white mainstream, and have created the myth that "black people just can't make it".
My experience reveals just the opposite. I understand that when doors are opened, black people can do as well, if not better than anyone else. I am reminded of an old James Brown song: "I don't want nobody to give me nothing. Open up the door, I'll get it myself!" Furthermore, there are more poor white people in the United States than any other race. Why can't they make it? The answer is very simple. Many people, white and black, can't make it because the system we are living in is not designed that way. In a Capitalist system there will always be haves and have nots. If everybody was rich, then nobody would be rich, and the pyramid would fall down. It is an evil system that needs to be replaced. I have met very few poor people, black or white, who were lazy and simply didn't want to work. That is another myth. Poor people don't want to be poor. The very notion is absurd.
Here are just a few examples of affluent black communities that we never hear about in the mainstream media:
•In Union Dale, a suburb of New York City, the average family income is $76,553.According to the 2000 census, the population was 23,011, consisting of 55.53% African American / Latino 22.86%
•In Friendly Maryland the average family income is $82,827.According to the 2000 census, the population was 10,938, consisting of 77.67% African American
•In Woodmore Maryland the average family income is $103,438. According to the 2000 census, the population was 6,077, consisting 64.9% African American.
•In Ladera Heights California the average family income is $132,824. According to the 2010 census, the population was 6,498, consisting 73.7% African American.
It begs the question, what happened to the black families you talked about in the ensuing years?
How did we come to this? Why do we have such high out of wedlock births? Why are the inner city schools not working like the rest of the country? Why are teen unemployment so high in the black community? Why are blacks voting 90% democratic year after year with no improvements?
How did Obama and Clearance Thomas and Dr. Ben Carson reach their potential?
As far as Clarence Thomas ,Ben Carson, and Obama are concerned, the point you are trying to make is ridiculous. So what? They are successful black men. I could also cite three very successful white men like Donald Trump and say: "Well, Donald Trump made it, why can't all the poor white people make it too? But there is another element involved as well. Not only do poor black people have to deal with the same realities as poor whites, they also have to deal with systemic racism. And so, the burden becomes more than twice as heavy. Economic parity for many black people simply hasn't been allowed, and that is why there is a disproportionate number of poor black people in the inner cities. It certainly has nothing to do with talent or motivation. As the men you mentioned, many great black entertainers and sports figures, and many great black writers and scientists have revealed, whenever the door is opened, black people excel.
I have been a professional musician for many years, and I am not black. I am Aniyunwiya/German. I am very good at what I do, and with the luck of the draw I could be famous yesterday. But some of the best musicians I have ever played with were black. When I began learning the guitar I studied the black bluesmen. They were my mentors. The first real band I played in was a black Disco band in Hawaii. I got fired after the second gig because I couldn't keep up! And I was glad they fired me because I was not ready. I do not get angry when people excel, or if they are more talented than I. It only makes me try harder. But many whites are afraid of the black man taking over, because the black man is not inferior in any way, shape, or form. And neither are my people. And that's what this racism is all about. It is about fear of losing control. But such fear is quite ironic, because all men came from the original black man. The black man is the original source of all human life. And so, we can see the white racist trying to run; trying to hide from an inescapable truth. Today it appears that all of the chickens are coming home to roost.
Thanks for sharing your experience but you missed my point. Why do some people succeed? White or black? Perhaps it has to do with personal behavior and choices and who they choose as role models and not let society define them...Or be victimized by the very same groups that claim to want to help. I also point out that these black leaders such as Rev. Jackson and Sharpton have done little to improve the situation and yet are propped up by the media every time there is a race issue... If for 50 years, they have not improved the black experience, perhaps we should look in a different direction, a different political class, a different way of thinking and just do the right thing as all other groups have done to succeed. The American dream is alive and well dispite all the obsticles. Race is one factor but not the only factor.
The desire to improve comes from self determination. Outside influences are very important. When I was growing up, my mentors were the white grocery store owner who allowed my dad to have credit and he honorably paid his bill every month.
My 7th grade English teacher, 8th grade math teacher, etc., were people I could reach out and touch. They personally encouraged me. Jessie Jackson was trying to build his reputation on the back of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. He had a child outside of his marriage. He was good with rhetoric and stirring the troops. I can' remember anything he did that impacted my life. Al Sharpton has been a great source of irritation for me.
As I said before, the first mentors are the parents. This is where a strong principled Black family with morals comes in. Drugs add a deadly element to the mix. My parents were great, loving parents. Unfortunately, my two baby sisters ended up on drugs in the late 70s, after I had moved to LA.
I have reached back to help the kids in my family since I saw what was going on. They consider me the matriarch and role model of the family. The kids hate drugs and do not want to be around drugs. Unfortunately my sister's drug use caused two of her children to be drug babies. Their father was a hope to die drunk. The son came to live with me in high school (before I knew the extent of the damage) He graduated #5 in his class and got a full scholarship to Georgetown University. He had well meaning Jewish mentors and my nephew loved the pity they showed. His Georgetown GPA was low because he started going to phychiatrists and was there diagnosed as an adult child of an alcoholic, ADD, and a bunch of stuff. He was prescribed medications that caused him to sleep all day. He was accepted into law school but slept his way through. After 5 years he could graduate because he couldn't reach a 2.0 gpa.
His sister was diagnosed as having temporal lobe damage and she has Turner's Syndrome. She can't count money. I purchased a house in Little Rock for them. Jeff is working for Xerox/Apple doing telephone tech support from home.
Tooo long. My point is that mentors come from people close enough to talk to and help those who have challenges. Mentorship requires up close and personal involvement.
Amen. I totally agree. Please get the word out to all.
What is important is :
Family, Church, Civil Society and the Constitution.
It appears that your entire perspective is biased against black people. Especially when you comment " ... just do the right thing as all other groups have done to succeed..." You are implying that all other groups or races have succeeded but the black race, and that is as close to a lie as anyone can get. I have been playing this game a long time Jack. Aren't you aware that the majority of poor people in this country are white? Didn't you know that more cops are killed by whites than any other race? Conversely, didn't you also know that more whites are killed by cops than any other race. These are the facts Jack. Now, let's look at the numbers:
According to Federal Safety Net (I believe this is based on a 2014 report): 19.7 million whites are living in poverty while 10.8 million blacks are living in poverty. The poverty rate among whites is 10.1% whereas the poverty rate among blacks is 26.2%. The poverty rate for blacks is double that of whites. And this is not remarkable considering the historical record. It would only be remarkable if the oppressive majority had a higher poverty rate than the oppressed minority. Consequently, all of the hyperbole aimed at suggesting the black race is violent and lacks motivation is simply a racist tactic; a slanderous method being used to undermine the black community.
If a majority of black people were violent, then what happened in Haiti in 1791 would not have been the exception, but would have become the rule many years ago. If the majority of black people were unmotivated, you would not see so many black people excel in every high paying industry that has removed racial barriers.
Perhaps I could have explained my position a little better. When I said, the black community could do the right thing... I was comparing specifically to immigrant groups that came here and succeeded as a group. For example, Vietnamese that came here after the Vietnam war... They learned our language, they started small businesses, they worked hard and long hours, they emphasized education for their children and family, they helped each other and over time, they succeeded as a group and moved out of the underclass... My question is why can't this model be replicate in the black community? If I was black and living in the inner cities of Chicago, I would do my best to get out of there. One can be self taught by reading and the public library is a great place to start. If you read Ben Carson's book, that is exactly what he did to get out of poverty. One can choose to not use drugs or have children out of wedlock... or join a gamg...All these are personal choices and behavior that can be changed. The problems in our inner city is many. It will take time to recover. It will take people deciding to change their behavior to make the transition. No amount of government assistance will do this. If anything, it will only perpetuate the welfare state.
Do you even read comments before you post? All you did was essentially paraphrase what you originally said. All Vietnamese immigrants are not successful. All Irish immigrants are not successful. Neither group "succeeded as a group". That is pure fantasy! Individuals among each group succeeded, while others failed. As I indicated, there are more poor white people than any other race here in the U.S.. So if we are to view "white people" as monolithic: white people did "not" succeed as a group. Some made it and some didn't. That's what really happened. If you studied the problem from a neutral perspective you might gain some understanding. But that would entail a considerable amount of time devoted to the historical record. If you truly want to help, then educating yourself about this issue would be the best thing you could do. Some of us on this thread have not only studied the situation , but we have also lived it ... far too long. It appears from your comments that you have no experience on either level.
I never said all people. I said group meaning as a whole...percentage wise.
Why are you not understanding this simple concept? What is your solution to the plight of blacks in the inner cities? I am giving my perspective based on my experience. My suggestions will help. There are no guarantees.
One day I was walking along a highway and I saw a vision. I saw a naked man standing in a sewer. And as a result, I experienced a great epiphany. I will explain in the following manner: If a man is standing up to his neck in a sewer, how many bars of soap will it take to make him clean? Of course, there is no answer, because as long as he is standing in the sewer, he will never come clean. The man must first step out of the sewer, and when he does, one bar of soap should be sufficient.
When we talk about the plight of the black man in the inner city, we are really talking about 2 distinct problems. Both must be solved in order to abolish this evil reality. The metaphorical sewer in this case is composed of two elements of evil: Racism and Capitalism. We can never solve the problem of poverty for black, or white, until we abolish both elements. If we simply abolish a system of racism, then it would certainly relieve some of the pressure, but a capitalist system would still remain. And capitalism requires the shape of a pyramid. Capitalism cannot function without a larger underclass on the bottom, to support and pay tribute to a smaller ruling class at the top. Yes, there is a solution to this problem. But it is not the solution that a majority wants to hear. The majority mistakenly believes that they can vote their way to a better world. But they have been voting for almost 250 years, and instead of getting better, the world appears to be getting worse!
The Christian Bible suggests that the world is ruled by a Satanic force. And we can translate that to be an "evil" force. For example: Neville Chamberlain sought to appease Adolph Hitler. But Hitler could not be appeased, or voted into oblivion. Adolph Hitler was Satanic, and the Nazis were an evil force. They could only be put down like a rabid dog. When we consider the evil forces at work in the world today, we can understand that they cannot be voted into oblivion. We cannot appease the greedy, or make them feel guilty and go away. Wall Street, the greedy politicians, and the industrial military complex cannot be appeased. They function through oppression, and they feed upon the blood and the misery of innocents. They are a mighty force, and they are a Satanic force. But unlike Adolph Hitler, we cannot defeat them with violence, or with bullets and bombs. They are far more powerful than Adolf Hitler, as they now have a stranglehold on the entire world through a world wide banking system.
In order to free ourselves from tyranny, we, the citizens of the world, only have one option available. We must go off the grid. We must stop buying mass produced products. We must stop purchasing automobiles and washing machines. We must stop using supermarkets. We must either produce our own food, or purchase food that is provided by a county, or city collective. We must put an end to consumerism as we know it. In effect, we must stop the world. What we must do is just the opposite of Ayn Rand's famous work entitled "Atlas Shrugged". Rather than the capitalist walking away from the world, the proletariat must walk away from consumerism, capitalism, and materialism, and allow the system to fall down, and to self-destruct. Short of divine intervention, this is the only way out. The governments of the world have no defense against such a formidable weapon, as it is more powerful than an atomic bomb. In effect, what I have described is similar to the rich man giving away all of his possessions and following Jesus. This is the only way we can step out of the sewer, and make ourselves clean.
You are so missguided. Racism and Capitalism? are to blame for the plight of the blacks in inner cities?
You don't know what poverty is until you travel the world and see what some other countries that don't adopt capitalism as an economic engine. If anything, Capitalism is what brought many out of poverty.
I go to Flushing NY on some weekend for shopping. You will see venders on the street selling all kinds of stuff. These people for the most part are poor illegal immigrants from China. They come to this country via some illegal transport where they pay a huge sum or go into debt. They work very hard to pay back these debts and send money back home to their families. They don't speak English. They are making a living for themselves and their families back in China. There are many stories as this. It is capitalism that allow them to make it. I would suggest you go talk to some of these people. Use a translator if you have to. Find out how they are doing and how this life compare to their plight back home.
Racism exist everywhere and is unfortunate part of human nature. We as a nation have done a lot to elliminate institutional racism. It should not be used to excuse, or justify, a group of people for not achieving the American dream. Anyone can try but not everyone will make it for one reason or another.
That is the free market system. Our country is founded on freedom and equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome.
Equality of outcome is not possible because the ruling elite will not allow it, and even Woodrow Wilson admitted this himself. To say that one dog is better off because his master does not beat him and feeds him better scraps from the table is not saying much Jack. I have been around the world,and I am also well read. Much of the poverty that you speak of is a direct result of Capitalism and Imperialist aggression. And if you have a problem with what you consider "ancient history", then we only need to look at the current destabilization of the Middle East. The war in Syria is a proxy war being waged by greedy Capitalists who are winning now through the sale of arms and munitions, and who will also win later with greater control of the oil. They do not care how many innocent people have to die. And a vendor who is "allowed" to sell vegetables in the street and lives in a run down shack, housing project,or even a gated community, is a far cry from Monsanto, Wall Street, and Goldman Sachs.
As far as IBM is concerned, Edwin Black black wrote in his book : "IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance between Nazi Germany and America's Most Powerful Corporation"
"As the Nazi war machine occupied successive nations of Europe, capitulation was followed by a census of the population of each subjugated nation, with an eye to the identification and isolation of Jews and Gypsies. These census operations were intimately intertwined with technology and cards supplied by IBM's German and new Polish subsidiaries, which were awarded specific sales territories in Poland by decision of the New York office following Germany's successful Blitzkrieg invasion.Data generated by means of counting and alphabetization equipment supplied by IBM through its German and other national subsidiaries was instrumental in the efforts of the German government to concentrate and ultimately destroy ethnic Jewish populations across Europe, Black demonstrates. Black reports that every Nazi concentration camp maintained its own Hollerith-Abteilung (Hollerith Department), assigned with keeping tabs on inmates through use of IBM's punch-card technology. In his book, Black charges that "without IBM's machinery, continuing upkeep and service, as well as the supply of punch cards, whether located on-site or off-site, Hitler's camps could have never managed the numbers they did."
The same evil that existed then still exists today. A Zebra does not change it's stripes, and a Lion will never lose his taste for live prey. Furthermore, I am certain that the evil IBM corporation has also performed many "good works" for mankind as well. But whatever those good works might be, I am not impressed. There are many men who will mercilessly beat their wives and girlfriends, and then buy them a new dress, or even a new car. I am not impressed with them either. IBM was like many soulless entities during World War II. They didn't care what Hitler was doing with their technology. They were only interested in making as much money as they could before the U.S. government pulled the plug. Based on your commentary, I am not surprised that you worked for this corporation.
I give up... You win or loose whatever you believe to be reality...
That's O.K. Jack. You are in good company, as it appears many think as you do. I have also encountered my own people who want very badly to be white on the inside, and to gain the approval of their oppressors. But as I have stated, it is as much a matter of class warfare as it is a matter of race. And you still have not provided an answer to the problem of white poverty in the United States. If the China man and the Vietnamese can do so well in the United States, why can't the poor whites make it? Surely they cannot play the race card, since this country was founded by white men. But in spite of this, there are more poor whites than any other race. Why Jack? How could this be? Considering their obvious advantage, there shouldn't be one poor white person in the United States, since a foreigner can come here and succeed. Could it be that the poor whites are simply unmotivated and unwilling to conform, as you have suggested in reference to the inner city blacks? Or could it be something else?
It may be true that a majority thinks they can vote their way to a better world. Certainly they think that voting to take from one and giving it to another is popular today - share the wealth plans are always popular among the takers, although not so much with those that lose what they have worked to earn.
But do away with capitalism and return to a life of living in hand built log cabins, riding your horse to town and plowing your garden with hand built wooden plows? I think not - your "cooperatives" are a pie in the sky dream that cannot work in a world of high rises.
You always resort to creating a fiction in order to gain an advantage. I never suggested "wooden plows" or going back to the stone age. Apparently, you are so mesmerized by the status quo, and a culture of consumerism, that you seem to think that society could not function otherwise. A capitalist corporation is a machine with 2 expendable attributes: the ability to mass produce, and the ability to collect revenue and amass fortunes. The technology, and the products sold by these corporations are developed by individual men and women who live in their own respective communities. These men and woman would not suddenly lose their knowledge and skills simply because they no longer had access to mass production through large corporations.
The "high rise" mentality, and the herding of people into large metropolitan areas is a perversion of the natural order. It is not the wave of the future, but only a path to destruction. The modern life that you and a great majority praise, and have taken for granted, is clearly a cancerous growth that cannot be "fixed", but must be completely removed from the body before it destroys the host. I find it remarkable that the addictive personality of the average American will casually flirt with complete annihilation, rather than give up any modern convenience. You are suggesting that my solution is not practical. But I feel the hard work and sacrifice involved in the creation of a new social paradigm, is far more practical than oblivion.
Moving somewhere without money to do so equals choosing to be homeless away from any family support structure you may have. Why would you recommend people choose homelessness over even a crappy home in the inner city? Don't you realize that being homeless would add to their problems exponentially rather than fixing them?
I've worked with many homeless people who took advice like yours. People think they can move without enough money, but it often falls through.
Not necessarily, people immigrate all the time and find places to live. What is your solution to help those trapped in the inner cities of Chicago? Where crime is rampant and shooting is common place and schools are broken and drug use is everywhere? Guess what, the city is ruled by Democrat elected mayors and democratic controlled city council...
Why don't you explain how moving without money without becoming homeless works then? Just write it up simply and publish it on HubPages and you could save millions of people from terrible situations. I will gladly promote it for you if you actually have real, viable strategies for moving without money and not becoming homeless in the process. It would be revolutionary and it would make your writing career.
I can do that and I can also predict the outcome. You and others will pan it as racist conservatives ideas to push down black people...
Yet, we see Democrats promoting open borders that allow illegal immigrants to come in by the millions and some of them do very well here. How do you explain that?
In my neighborhood, all jobs in fast foods here are manned by Mexicans and Hispanics. It used to be teenagers while I was growing up. No more jobs for teens... It used to be a training ground for work. Now it is a career about to be replaced by robots. They want a living wage of $15 per hour.
I can site example after examples of how people with diverse backgrounds came here to this countey and succeeded. Why do you think people all over the world want to come here? I don't see them doing the same going to Communist Russia?
I've published extensively here on hubpages promoting conservative principles. The beauty of these ideals is that they are color blind. They will work for all races and creeds if applied. That is the success story of America and why we are an exceptional nation.
Jack: Conservatism is not color blind, no more than Liberalism is not color blind. We are all wired to recognize the difference in people. Anytime the worth of a group is devalued by another group, it is dangerous. I don't even know you, but I can tell from you last name that you are probably of Asia decent. Is that racism? Yes to a certain degree it is.
Almost all the decedents of black people did not ask to come to this country. They were brought here as slaves. Lincoln freed the slaves, but to this day there are people out there who are racist and hate black people, no matter what political group they belong to. Most immigrants come to this country by choice. The slaves were separated from their families and many were interbred with white people. Just like any culture some were successful in overcoming their plight and others were not. Many of the men felt devalued. That's why there are those families who are mainly matriarchal. In those families the wife or grandmother does the caring for the children who are from broken families. Some succeed and are able to move out of those cities and others are not so successful. To say that conservative values is the answer does not recognize the root problem. The answer is to break up the gangs with education. Education is not racist, it empowers the people to better themselves with opportunities no matter their race. By the way, we all belong to only one race. It is called the human race.
Believe it or not I totally get it. The question is how do we move forward? Does it matter how we got here? The fact is we are here. How can an individual succeed in America? Given all the problems with our broken schools, our welfare state and our broken borders...
My answer is conservative solution. It works every time it is tried. It is color blind by definition. What I propose does not have a racial component. Read my hubs... They are all common sense ideas. Better yet, I recommend everyone read Dr. Carson's book. He describe in detail how he was raised and how he grew up in Chicago and succeeded... If he can do it, anyone else can try as well. Notice, I said try... There are no guarantees in life. Some will do well and some will not. That is the state of the world on earth. Until we go to Heaven, there is no utopia.
"Anytime the worth of a group is devalued by another group, it is dangerous."
The stereotypical liberal view of a conservative is that they are all gun toting religious nuts. They actively want everyone not a WASP to starve to death, particularly anyone with dark skin. They actively pursue this goal by fighting any handouts to any group but their own. They are too stupid and immoral to recognize that we need laws and charitable programs; not a single one of their ideas has any value because they are all aimed at killing children and blacks by starving them to death and they hate anyone not of their religious persuasion.
http://hubpages.com/politics/forum/1373 … supporters
Do you find this "dangerous"? If so, is it only because it has locked the country into a solid state of partisanship or because the conservative has been degraded to something less than human, lacking any morals at all?
Wliderness: It depends on your view point and your values and beliefs systems as to what side of the fence you relate to. I do know this is how Hitler was able start the Nazi party. He devalued the Jews and made them look they were the problem as to why the people were feeling so much anguish. Just like Trump, he told the people he could save them from a rigged system. The American Indians were devalued in the name of Manifest Destiny. The Palestinians are devalued by the Israelis. Devaluing an ethnic group or a culture can justify killings and genocide. The crusaders and the Muslims did it the name of God(s). Each had a different take on who their God was (is). This has been done throughout history.
I think it is the other way around. Conservatives by their very nature think liberals are immoral. That's why they are called conservatives. They don't like progressive change. They do like regressive change. Like "I want my country back" and Make America Great Again, no stem cell research, abortions, including anything risque, homophobia, LGBT, and fear of tyranny. That's why evangelicals and bible toting people that quote scripture fit right into the conservative template.
Why would you need to even talk about race if the strategies were strategies that allowed anyone to move without having any money?
I'm guessing that your reply really means you don't have a set of strategies and tactics that don't require seed money that people can use to move out of inner cities without becoming homeless, right? Or are we to believe that you're so sensitive that you'd avoid publishing your revolutionary, genius ideas that could improve millions of lives because you're afraid someone will say they are racist?
It's OK to admit you actually don't know a set of secret strategies that anyone could use to move from the inner city without having money that would not result in homelessness; no one else knows any such strategies so it's nothing to be ashamed of. However, if you really do know how anyone, regardless of ability, health, experience, or skills can move out of the inner city without having money and without becoming homeless and you don't share that information, you're truly a terrible human being. It's like knowing a secret cure for pancreatic cancer and choosing not to share it because someone might type mean words at you.
Please read Dr. Carson's book "Think Big" before making any further comments...
Here is the link on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Think-Big-Unleas … bc?ie=UTF8
This idea that you have and the way that you explain this is brilliant in its simplicity , This may be boring and you or anyone else doesn't have to read it but -- When I was growing up , my poor working class father [ and mother by the way ] who never had two dimes to rub together , got up at five every morning and went to work at lower grade construction labor jobs day after day after day . Later in life he began to look to a factory job , Why ? Because he knew he would at least be warm in the winter , dry in the rain showers , not have to work in the cold anymore because of his war and work related bodily injuries .and be able to afford his automatically deducted insurance premiums . He also knew that no matter that he had a bronze star , two purple hearts , a combat ribbon and an honorable discharge that he still had to "earn a living " ,that all of that other stuff was just a bitter frosting on the cake .
THAT IS WHAT'S MISSING TODAY . The personal knowledge and accountability of knowing that whatever ones accomplishments , ones abilities , ones personal limitations are , that NO ONE owed them anything but a chance !
This chance to succeed at a dream , That dream ? To have the chance alone to stay one step ahead of the wolf at the door ! And still , although my family fought off many wolves , to be able to .....have a home and "Put food on the table ".
Rightfully so , .............My parents would have been ashamed of America today ! I didn't miss out on much in life for sure because of them and I sure do miss my parents , They taught me more about life by THAT above , than all of the horse shit mentality of entitlement seekers today !
Want change ,America? - Get off your ass and get to work !
People LIKE to work, ahorseback. They like to accomplish things! What is wrong today is just too many prohibitions to job seekers. And now you have the internet. Do you know how frustrating it is to submit resume after resume to companies who never see you, never talk to you, never call you back because they don't have to respond to you in any way whatsoever. And the competition is fierce. Who can break into an acting career, get that high paying job, get any type of job except part-time thanks to government health care stipulations. Who can get a business off the ground if you are an American citizen when the foreigners are given every break in the world? Who can start a business with all the government regulations, tax requirements, insurances, mandates.
In a nutshell, this country has simply become un-user-friendly.
Luckily there are those who grew up with computers and are savvy knowing all sorts of programs. But these are not easy to learn in a class room setting. On the job is better, so first you have to get the job ... but who will hire you of you are not already proficient.
On top of all that the kids have the pressure to make six figures right off the bat!!!
And college grads have huge student loans to pay back. No wonder I see young adult males walking to and fro from the game store.
Kathryn, college grads are getting jobs at fast food places because of the lack of jobs in their particular fields. That might be a reason they want to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. Schools are not trying to emphasis STEM (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) because current and future jobs will require expertise in those areas.
In the meantime, what do we do??? Thank God I just retired!
onhorseback commented: " Because he knew he would at least be warm in the winter , dry in the rain showers , not have to work in the cold anymore because of his war and work related bodily injuries .and be able to afford his automatically deducted insurance premiums . He also knew that no matter that he had a bronze star , two purple hearts , a combat ribbon and an honorable discharge that he still had to "earn a living " ,that all of that other stuff was just a bitter frosting on the cake" .
Did you ever stop to think that your father, like millions of others, was used as a pawn to serve the ends of a wealthy and powerful elite? Before and after the war? I can't imagine why you would be proud of the fact that the father you loved was abused his whole life by an evil system. This is a perfect example of Stockholm Syndrome. It is ironic that you and Patty Hearst have so much in common.
It is wonderful that your parents were allowed to work those jobs ahorseback. The notable absence of Blacks is because Black people were not allowed to work those jobs. After slaves were "free", oppression continued through Jim Crow laws. I was born in 1950 and remember not being able to attend schools with white people. Integration started with much resistance in the mid/lalte 50s. Around that time, I remember the white/colored signs disappearing for bathrooms and water fountains.
Jackclee, you compared Asians and indentured servants with former slaves. What similar obstacles did they have? Black people did create their own opportunities. That is were historically black colleges and universities (HBCU) came from. Black organizations were formed to get access to education and jobs. Black sororities and fraternities were formed because they were not allowed in white sororities and universities.
The current thinking on this subject is that integration caused the decline in many black communities.
In cities like Atlanta, there were thriving black communities, such as that around Auburn Avenue. They had their own doctors, dentists, architects and store owners. The professionals provided leadership and positive role models for the young people in the community. Those communities offered hope to young people to get an education and improve their futures.
Then with integration, those role models left the community to move into affluent, white neighborhoods. As they migrated out, the neighborhoods were left with fewer positive role models, less opportunity to dream of a better life, as they were now surrounded exclusively with others struggling to make ends meet. It became a downward spiral with each generation, until those communities became ghettos. When the best of a community, its success stories, always leave and never look back, those left behind feel forgotten, hopeless and inferior.
It actually started with redlining. Realtors would tell white people that a Black person was moving into the neighborhood. Then a lot of for sale signs would go up. I remembered seeing 4 to 5 signs on Fair Park Boulevard at a time. The freeway was built behind our house. That took traffic off of 12th street (in front of our house). People could drive across Little Rock without passing by stores. The stores went out of business. As we became educated, we left our elderly parents in the communities. The late 70s brought the drugs into the community. Gangs left LA/Compton to start drug businesses across the US. There was a large article in the Little Rock newspapers that chronicled the beginning of the drug/gang wars.
Now people are worried about gentrification. I'm not against gentrification if the people in the area are not able to maintain economic stability on their own.
I agree with you. Then why do blacks vote democratic 90% of the time and democrats support open borders and invite more immigrants in? Is this self defeating?
?
Only the blacks can answer this.
In my opinion, unless they do (answer these questions) the issue will never be discussed productively.
HOW exactly are the whites to blame for the plight of the blacks and ...
WHAT is that plight?
plight noun
predicament, quandary, difficult situation, dire straits, trouble, difficulty, extremity, bind; dilemma, tight corner, tight spot, hole, pickle, jam, fix.
I addressed this at length with Jacklee. He decided to leave the conversastion.
The challenges for Black people in poor communities are much like those for anyone else who lives in the poor communities.
Those "out of wedlock" births are a real problem. I would tell students they shouldn't have kids until they can afford them. Unfortunately, that is the reality they see on television and social media. I tell them that they are not celebrities who can afford to have those kids. Celebrities' kids are often just as jacked up as inner city kids.
You copied Jacklee's comments. If you look under them you will see my lengthy response.
behavior, poor parenting, hopelessness, fear, gangs, etc. It's a vicious circle. Some are strong enough to get out.
Some try to argue that the schools are bad. If that is so, why would some students have high GPAs, test scores and be accepted to Ivy League schools.
Kids need good parenting and support. However, some (few) kids are determined even though they don't get it.
Some people are in poor neighborhoods that were not always poor. My neighborhood was mixed with professional and blue collar Black people. Redlining made white people, who incidentally lived on the next street, leave the community. Freeways made it possible for white people to get nice houses in the suburbs, drive across the city, without touching a city street. Older Black people who had lived in their homes 50/60 years didn't have enough equity in their homes to move out. As we became educated we left the area. That's how most poor inner city areas happened.
How hard would it be for all of us to just follow these recommendations?
Whites (as all people) must adhere to the following boundaries and have the discipline to act according to these tenets:
A. No unlawful discrimination.
B. No unjust denial of opportunities to anyone.
C. No pre-judging based on one's individual preferences regarding:
1. Behavior
2. Appearances
I must tell you that I am careful when I see guys/girls dressed a certain way. Either they choose to look like thugs or they are thugs. I err on the side of caution.
I think if your heart is in the right place, you don't need a list.
Learned behavior and attitudes can cancel out connection to heart. In this case, a list is actually helpful.
Eventually we will get on the same page heart wise, until then a bit of a list might help:
A. No unlawful discrimination.
B. No unjust denial of opportunities to anyone.
C. No pre-judging based on one's individual preferences regarding:
1. Behavior
2. Appearances
If you truly want to know the answer to these questions , and more, you are in luck. I suggest you read "Darkwater: Voices from within the Veil" by W.E.B. Dubois. It would also help to watch many of the videos posted on YouTube of the Honorable Reverend Louis Farrakhan.
I never knew anyone on welfare until I graduated from high school. An 18-year old girl I went to elementary school was receiving welfare because she was raising her 3 younger brother and 1 younger sister. Their mom had recently died of cancer.
My dad had an 8th grade education but he worked 18 hours a day easily. He was a red cap at the train station and then did painting, electrical work and odds and ins to make enough money to provide for us.
After I graduated from college and came to California, I then began to meet people on welfare.
Thank you for sharing!
Diane
My family lived in a "country" area with lots of land. Everyone at the church was related. We lived in Little Rock but always drove to the country to visit our family and go to church. They farmed and laid bricks. Over the years the land has become prime real estate, near the Arkansas River and people are now building mansions there.
Media
We always see crimes committed by Blacks on television which leads people to believe that "ALL" Black people are violent, dangerous, lawbreakers. It doesn't matter that neighborhoods are mixed in middle class areas and there is very little crime. There are Blacks in professional jobs that white people know by name; however, their perception is what they see on television.
The inner city program starts with children (12-17) having children. They have unstable lives and boyfriends. Low paying, unstable or no jobs. This leads into all of the other stuff that goes on. The inner city neighborhoods are not just Black people. I do feel this is an area where we, African Americans, should be mentoring and encouraging our relatives (that's who they are) to get educated, stable employment and spend quality time with their kids. This is mandatory.
Your pointis well taken, with noted exception of those indiginous to this continent, the experience of African Americans have been historically amonst the worse. Other immigrant groups came to America voluntarily prepared for and elide in the land that they have chosen. White people, regardless of origin did not have the physical differences to identify them for disparate treatment. So the experiences of Irish, Jews, etc., are really not the same as they could assimilate much more easily in comparison.
TV does distort the image of black people. We have updated versions of "the Jeffersons" and such where wealth is ridiculously flaunted, or reality based gritty ghetto based life dramas. People living lives in constant danger as the norm, in comparison with things like "The Brady Bunch",what a contrast.
I have many debates with others that see all black folks as living on the dole in some sort of fashion, this is mostly reinforced through what people constantly hear inpublic discourse or what is seen on TV.
It is a sinister program by the corporate master to give certain segments of the poor the impression that some are deserving and some are not. That is the thrust of the Trump phenomenon. Social Services and such are only a disaster when Minority groups are the recipient of such programs.
I dropped a bombshell, I know.
I missed this comment. Yes, I have often heard the ridiculous comparisons made between the African slaves and the Irish, as well as the propaganda about how various tribes in Africa sold members of other tribes into slavery. Comments like these are simply tools of racism. Just like a carpenter will always carry a hammer, we can always count on the racist to offer an anecdote to help mitigate the evil perpetrated against the African and the Indigenous by the European Invaders. Any student of history knows that there is simply no comparison whatsoever.
And you are correct concerning the recipients of various government programs. And this happens all across the board. In the aftermath of Katrina black people looking for food were portrayed as "looters", whereas the white people doing the same thing were portrayed as "good white folks" who were simply starving and looking for food. The racism of the media was so obvious that Saturday Night Live even did a skit about it. There are far more whites receiving public assistance than minorities. And if there happens to be a disproportionate amount of black people on welfare then it should be no great mystery why. And that is because there are a disproportionate amount of white employers who will not hire black people.
Many white people get tired of hearing about racism. But I am tired of living under an oppressive racist system that glorifies a racist past with images of tyrants on the money, grotesque statues and monuments, holidays, and stupid songs that glorify war and Manifest Destiny. My people were free long before the European Invaders came here uninvited, but certainly not after. I cannot express to you how frustrating it is to hear some moron tell me how a bunch of slave owners, thieves, rapists, and murderers made me "free" after killing a majority of my people, and then stealing all of the land and the resources.
Thanks, WB, I almost forgot that I had made this comment.
Holy cow Credence2! What the hell happened to your sense of reality?
Tribes sold other tribes, tools of racism, European invaders, black looters, white folks looking for food, an oppressive racist system, your people... Geez, you must be having a bad week.
Your people were killing and mutilating each other long before the slave trade hit our American shores. There is no justification for our acceptance of slavery, but there is also no validity to your "our people were free before the European invaders rationalization.
Come on bud, yes, those were awful dehumanizing times, but we progressed. We have gone from the horror of slavery and accepted overt racism to admitting those wrongs and strenuous efforts to correct them. We are now at a place where racism still exists, but only overtly in the minds and actions of Neanderthals, and covertly in the minds and actions of the fearful.
I am old enough to still have to fight the old ingrained racism of my generation, but also old enough to see that to my grown children color is a non-issue. My kids, (my youngest is 21), don't even see color. That isn't a testament to my parenting, it is a testament to the strides we have made as a society. I would like to take credit for their attitudes, but I see the same thing in their friends.
Of course there are still young knuckle-heads that are racist as hell, but they are the exception and not the norm - in my view. I also see the inequities that blacks still endure, all those points that you and Dianne speak off, that still exist. But they are rapidly becoming the exception rather than the norm - in my view. Are we living in two different worlds? Has your life experience so jaded your view that you now agree with WB's "evil Europeans" tirades?
There is so much more in your post to criticize, but damn Cred, do you really see where we are now as a society as so bad that you would buy into WB's 500-year old white devils rants?
ps. Yes, I am one of those white folks that is tired of hearing those clarion calls of racism. We are trying. We are trying very hard. A leopard doesn't change its spot overnight. But, I think the last 50 years have proven that we are trying to grow beyond those attitudes. I also think you know that, so what's up with this WB endorsement? Somebody pee in your Cheerios?
pss. Sorry for the tirade, but I recently watched a video comparing police actions relative to legal open-carry situations involving a white man and a black man walking down the street with a back-slung assault rifle. The black man did not fare well. It upset me, it was not a proud moment for us white folks. We still have a ways to go, but we are trying. And to hear what I viewed as a rational black man endorsing WB's racist views was a bit much. So give us a break will ya?
GA
[added] oops, looks like I responded to a WB comment as yours Credence2, sorry bud. I will meet you at the woodshed.
If you are an educated person then I see you have wasted your money. Like so many here, you are quick to slander, but you have no originality. If rape, murder, thievery, and genocide are not evil, then please explain to the world why they are not. If the Europeans who perpetrated these crimes against humanity were not evil, then what should we call them? Good 'ol boys? And since a majority of white Americans continue to celebrate this evil legacy with holidays and parades, I would challenge anyone to justify it. But you cannot justify it. It doesn't matter what the African did to the African, or what the Indigenous did to the Indigenous before the squatters came. You can save that hillbilly wisdom for your local watering hole.
The African did not come here to enslave,rape, dispossess, and murder my people. Neither did the Vietnamese, the North Koreans or the Iraqis. And there was no single Indigenous nation that covered the entire continent like a swarm of hungry locusts devouring everything in sight. It was the European. You do not like that I call a spade a spade because it is not politically correct. But I have no more concern for your frail sensibilities than you do for the slaughter of over 100 million of my people, the enslavement of the African, or the U.S. proxy war that has killed thousands of children in Syria. All you can do is slander like a school yard bully. But guess what my friend, I am not going away.You have nothing of worth to offer, and nothing to say, and so you have come once again to remind us.
Wrench-bisket , How well you have used the race card over the last couple of years , How often it has been thrown down by you to defend the failed culture of your people . Instead of even beginning to explain the real cause or cure of the diseased nature of your own people , instead of posting one image of the absolute failure of Native Americans , Pine Ridge for example , or the native populations of the northwest , You continue to blame someone who lived three or four hundred years ago. You really need to get around more though , your people are their own worst enemy on the Rez . Number one cause -- Fatherless homes . Welcome to the blame - game -rodeo , Wrench-bisket !
Want a cure , really - get to work cleaning up your own house !
And so, since you have used this same derogatory approach many times before, I see it is your weapon of choice. The Lakota are among the bravest of warriors, and they were one of the last group of human beings on this continent to fight against this evil empire. I have nothing but respect for the Lakota, and the people of Pine Ridge. Apparently they are not so failed since they have recently successfully halted the Keystone XL pipeline. Some of these great warriors have commented: "Dead or in Prison Before We Allow the KXL Pipeline". And I stand in solidarity with them.
It is better to die standing on your feet than crawling on your knees. My mother and father were also great warriors. They armed themselves, and on several occasions fired upon groups of white racist cowards who sought to intimidate and remove them from our beautiful 200 acre farm during the 1950's. As I grew older, I realized that many of these racists were poor, lived in rusty trailers, slept with their sisters and daughters, and spent most of their free time at the local taverns. I grew up with plenty of love, education, and money, as my parents made sure of that. Your version of the Indigenous peoples of this continent is what came out of a Cracker Jack box, as it is clear you have not educated yourself concerning American History. And I am not doing so bad either. Anyone can see that I am more educated,creative, and articulate, than those who only seek to slander and ridicule. I was born in the lap of luxury, but even if I should die a pauper, I will still possess more than the evil and arrogant men who journey through this world clueless, and without a soul. My weapon of choice is truth and knowledge. This is why I do not attack the character of my adversaries as much, or as viciously as they attack mine. I do not need to, as their ignorance speaks for itself.
Cleaning up my own house? I am glad you mentioned that. That is exactly what I am doing here. I am kicking the dust off of my heels. I am part of a growing movement among African, Indigenous, and Mixed Blood people. We are moving and active in many directions, and we are united in solidarity. The imaginary, stereotypical images that you carry around in your head of poor drunken "Indians", the ghetto black, or the "good Negro" who tap dances, waves Old Glory,and sings a rousing rendition of "The Star Spangled Banner" will be your downfall. The white man likes to talk about how he brought the gift of "free speech" into the New World. And so, here I am enjoying all of that free speech that the good white man has bestowed upon me. Hold on, because the best is yet to come! Hafa Adai!
Wrench , Personally , I have visited , traveled in and done trading in six or seven Native American Indian reservations inside America's borders , I have visited Mexico and listened as Mexican indigenous people described the treatment of their peoples by whatever form of government Mexico has , I have seen the Mayan ruins of a culture long gone and know the persecution there , I have also studied in my own life , the trials and tribulations of Native Americans here including but not limited to my own relatives , The Abenaki tribe in northern New England of whom are my relations by marriage and my own native and non-native bloodlines .
But never have I heard such a phony accusatory attitude as yours , You are a phony , you are a phony political re-actionist , your rants are in affect phony in themselves , your whole purpose in these forums has proven to be nothing but -Prof. Ward Churchill like phony-isms . The most obvious proof of this , is in the horrid condition of your own native lands , villages and peoples .
I would challenge ANYONE to travel there in any number of government or self funded reservations and observe the power of the victim-ology inflicted on a people...... BY THIER OWN TRIBAL LEADERSHIP..
A Crackerjack Box knowledge ? Look no further than your own immature attitude and responses to all of these political forums you have been involved in , Wrench , look in the mirror!
Well, GA, you could have just hit the delete key to remove misdirected comments. I think that there is an alterior motive here, a $64,000 question, that thing that sticks in your craw, you know?
How much is WB and I on the 'same page', and if we are not always? We share the 'same book', rather than being separated by libraries across town. Educating people from our perspective may not always be comforting, that is of course, if getting to the truth is an objective.
As for my week? I am doing just fine. My schtick is slavery and hypocrisy. My expectation for a Govermnent and society that heralds itself as a democracy, based upon the rule of law with equality of man as a foundation, is a bit more than I would expect from nomadic tribes, Japanese or Nazi fascists. I am holding America to a higher standard, because she always tells us that she deserves to be.
I can only say that in regards to 'racism' there has been improvement to the extent that more of overt examples has disappeared. But there is still work to do. While, I can point to the article, there was account where DAVID Duke, renown white supremacist, was running for either Govenor or Senate in Louisiana, he lost, but gathered 60 percent of the White vote. People of color in the state were responsible for the man's defeat. Things appear calm on the surface but there can still be a substantial cauldron underneath. Such is my view of race relations in America, today. Duke's racist record was either embraced by so many whites or considered merely incedental in their choice. Of course, WE, are to look at such things differently. That is what many of us see in Trump.
This is never personal. I am most confident that you and many of the folks in this forum, even those in an adversarial place, are not deliberately behind the events having its roots so long ago. Regardless, there still remain systemic and institutional constructs within our society much of it race based and quite subtle, where we can't too soon rest upon our laurels.
As for the "evil european tirade". My belief is that I have seen so much brutality and savagery among the human family, irregardless of race and ethnicity, I really cannot be sure that given the same circumstances of having the technological advantages of firearms and steel combined with decimation of indiginous populations with disease in a unique time in world history, that neither Asians or Africans would have behaved any differently were there circumstances the same. It is intersting though, how the advocacy of "whiteness" as opposed to darker skin seems to be the rule over the entire hemisphere. The tenets of systemic pro white and light skinned racism and race prejudice has tenacles that wrap around the planet.
Even Malcolm X toward the end of his life, having gone to Mecca in 1964 as a adherent of Islam worshipping with whites on a basis of equality, recognized a systemic problem in AMERICAN society, that was far more involved than just black people and whitepeople.
I wondered while in Panama, the racial hierarchy with all the privileges associated with those on the top always went to the whites or lighter skin? I also asked why, when in St. Martaan a few years ago, skin bleaching cream was still quite the rage?
I toured Europe as a young man during the late Seventies. It was like being raised on the moon and leaving the compound each time to go outside with the needed life support apparatus, down to my moon boots. It is a habit you don't think about, like looking both ways before crossing the street. My introduction to life in Europe was like walking around in a space suit on Waikiki. How ridiculous is that?
The subtle constructs seem to disappear, I was accepted implicitly, revealed even in little forms of communication but telling things like body language. All the psychological baggage associated with being black in America disappears, and it was all so much superfluous stuff. My point is that there need not be angst between us because one is black and one is white. America's racial history is unique and has had sinister implications relative to other societies. While I had issues with the West Germans, the biggest one was the mistake of associating with AMERICAN tourists. We had language issues, etiquette issues, but my basic humanity and subsequent equality were never in question.
Wrench is right about the fact that assimilation in America was far more difficult among race and ethnicities with disguishing physical characteristics verses Jews or Irish.
Wrench is right and I am appalled that people could think that internment of Japanese-AMERICAN people during World War II did not have a substantial racial component.
I have said quite a bit. As long as the leopard is aware that the spot changing process must be continuous, we too, can be on the same page.
Under today's circumstances would you choose to be a black person, honestly, if you had a choice?
Well, as I read your response I was thinking my trip to the woodshed wasn't too bad...
until I reached your last question...
And yes, I do wish I had just hit the delete button.
GA
Michelle has reiterated this statement endlessly. Yes, the ancestors of Black Americans were enslaved. Yes again, slavery is a part of Black American history. Yes, it should be acknowledged but don't incessantly dwell upon the issue. Slavery is only a part of Black history. Blacks created empires in Africa. Black Americans were inventors & many inventions were & still are created by them but aren't acknowledged. There IS more to Black history than slavery.
As to Bill O'Reilly, slavery was hellish. Slaves were treated as chattel or worse. Slaves ate the worst food & oftentimes had the worst accommodations. Bill, read some slave narratives, thank you. Slaves were abused at will, whipped for the slightest offenses. Families separated at will. Women abused. Men abused. Oh Bill, please SHUT UP.......about slavery. Oh Bill, I forgot to interject, Irish people were also viewed & treated as second class citizens by the British. The British treated Irish as Blacks; even early America saw the Irish as Blacks, read some books on history. Read the book THE GANGS OF NEW YORK, also watch the movie of the same name, directed by Martin Scorsese. The Irish when they entered America weren't welcomed at all. Also watch the PBS series, The Irish in America: The Long Journey Home. This series details how the Irish were treated in America. The series further indicated that the Irish became respectable only when John F. Kennedy was elected President of the United in 1960.
I took the First Lady's statement to be one of pure joy and wonder at how far we've come as a nation.
Very, very few Scots or Irish were in the colonies voluntarily when the White House was built. The White House was built by slaves both black and white* and by some people who weren't slaves. It's history and Michelle is 1000% right that we've made incredible progress since then.
*Anyone bought from a kidnapper or directly kidnapped to do labor for someone else or the still indentured offspring of such a person is a slave, no matter what paperwork has been created around the kidnapping and sale.
I would like to add that the Irish were successfully assimilated in American society well before 1960. Kennedy was controversial primarily because he was Catholic.
A few were assimilated in America, living in middle & upper class communities & suburbs but many were lower middle class, working class & poor, living in ethnic enclaves. The Irish really didn't become respectable until the Kennedy collection. Now, many Irish are what one would call solidly middle, upper middle, & even rich. To many Caucasian ethnics of Polish, Italian, Greek, & Slavic backgrounds, the Irish are seen as WASPs or as near WASPs as possible(re: the book-THE RISE OF THE UNMELTABLE ETHNICS by Michael Novak.) The PBS series The Irish in America-The Long Journey Home discusses how the Kennedy election finally made the Irish respectable & acceptable in American culture & society.
After Kennedy was elected, being Irish was at last respectable. The Irish finally arrived & become established. Before then, the Irish were suspect and second class citizens. Yes, there were lace curtain Irish before(the Irish upper class) which the Kennedys were part of. However, even the Irish moneyed were not considered to be real society. The Kennedys had to fight to be accepted. Joseph Kennedy was denied a top political office in the 1930s; he vowed & fought to make sure that his sons would get the political opportunities he was denied.
Thanks, it seemed that1960was late for assimilation. But, yourpointiswell taken, Joseph Sr. did have trouble being accepted among the Boston leading families due to Anti-Irish bigotry, as I had once read. Much of this during the 1920s and perhaps even the thirties. FDR made him ambassador to Great Britain in the late 1930's, a pretty critical spot considering that war clouds were in the air. FDR contemplated this possibility and picked his ambassador with care. Nice Call.
No, she should not have said it. In fact, continually bringing up the oppression of the Black race is causing more unrest. It's time to put it down. And using it for an excuse is unethical. Blacks have more rights now than ever. If you disagree, fine. But wait till you are over 50, looking for a job, and are a white female,, then you'll know about discrimination.
You say that bringing up the oppression of the African is causing more unrest, but I fear you don't know the half of it. What's causing even more unrest is American hypocrisy. You say you don't want to hear about slavery. Well guess what? I don't either, but every time I look at a one dollar bill I see a slave owner, and it bothers me. When I look at the Statue of Liberty it also bothers me, and creates unrest in my soul. When I see the Statue of Liberty I see Invaders coming to this continent; uninvited aliens killing my people any way that they could; killing them with the biological weapon of smallpox, raping the women, burning my ancestors alive, and stealing the land, the resources, and the riches of an entire continent.
And as the Americans were completing their masterpiece of genocide, they erected a grotesque statue to invite the whole world to come and plunder what was left. When I look at Mt Rushmore I get the same feeling. I get the same feeling on Columbus Day, and the 4th of July. But the Americans keep shoving the past in my face with their statues, their holidays, their currency and their traditions. Michelle Obama only made one speech and it caused a great stir. But what I have just described is continuous and non-stop; from the day I was born unto this very moment. So yes, I can relate to your frustration ... x one million.
But many Americans do not recognize my people as being significant. They view the Indigenous and the African as two different races of people struggling to make it in a white world; trying to become as white as we can on the inside. Yes, that is true for some, but there are many now who are starting to reclaim their heritage, and to remember who they are, and who they are not. The people are being educated, de-programmed, and de-colonized. Soon the Americans will have a choice to make. They can choose to stay here and live in a truly multi-cultural society, or they can go back to Europa, and create a new American Dream. I will not stand in their way.
Racism - our own, not that of others - is so very often as much a matter of perception and of choice as anything else, and in the US with it's "mongrelized" mixing of races that is even more true. Unless a recent immigrant is from a racially still fairly "pure" part of the world, we are ALL a mix of many races.
I seem to remember you saying you were German - would it please you more and make you happier to recognize and accept that you are reaping the benefits of the hard work and sacrifices of your ancestors? That that work and sacrifice is partially responsible for what you are and what you have attained, that it is something to be proud of rather than disdainful?
No, the ends does not justify the means. That is the twisted logic of Manifest Destiny. And as far as my German half is concerned, I give it very little thought. I was treated not much differently growing up as the black children. I was able to enjoy receiving all of the usual racial epithets that the black kids enjoyed. With the exception of the N-word. This particular epithet was usually preceded with the word "prairie" as a qualifier.
The whites treated me as an outcast, for no other reason than the shape of my face and the color of my skin. But overall, the black people in our community treated me like a human being. They accepted me based on my character, and not because of the way I looked, or my race. I can be who I want to be. It is only my responsibilty to honor the people that I love, and those who have lifted me up when I could not stand up on my own. It would be foolish of me to embrace a system and a people who kicked me to the curb on the day that I was born. But I suppose you feel that a tree made crooked should somehow grow up straight.
Explain the word "prairie." I never heard it with regard to race.
That was a common term where I grew up in the Midwest, near the Mason Dixon Line. It was an adjective used to distinguish between the Black people,and the Indigenous. Apparently because they associated us with living on the open prairie prior to the invasion; n-gg-- or prairie n-gg--, depending. It was so racist where I lived that dark skinned Italians were constantly harassed as well. And it never stopped. My home life was peaceful on the farm. But outside of my comfort zone it was a constant battle.
It was a relief when I was stationed at Pearl Harbor at the age of 17. It was the first time in my life that I felt at ease in public. I looked a lot like the local people, and I blended in to the community, instead of standing out like a sore thumb. It was in Hawaii that I experienced for the first time a small taste of what it feels like to be in the majority. It was a great feeling. And that is one of the drawbacks of integration. I would have preferred going to an all Black school, or an Indigenous school, instead of trying to get an education amidst all of the racist nonsense that was always going on.
In Hawaii I have always had that sense of a this racial burden being lifted in Hawaii, one of the few places where being 'white' was not always an advantage. It not all about being. 'White'. I found a life equivalent to a breath of fresh air when I toured much of the Western Europe in the late 1970's. It was like dropping a lifetime worth of psychological baggage that I no longer needed. Much like walking around in a space suit on Waikiki Beach, did I think that I was still on the moon? The Eagle has Landed? American and history and such are the sources of unique experiences.
Interesting! I don't know about anyone else but I'm learning a lot and getting different perspectives. I really hope someone will explain how Obama has been divisive. I haven't gotten the sense that Black people feel he has done a lot for them. I don't really know what he could have done. He is not the president of the Black people but of everyone.
I've come to realize that if you are pleasing everyone there is something really wrong with you. Leaders cannot please everyone. I'm sure Obama has more of an appreciation for GW now.
His job was to focus on the needs of all citizens, being a Democrat putting his attention on working and middle classes that make up the bulk of the American electorate. If he focused on this in earnest, he would help Black folks as well. Considering the obstructionism from the GOP side, he did as well as possible. I certainly could not have expected anymore from a McCain or Romney except double down on 'trickle down'. There have been fundamental changes in the AMERICAN economy that do not allow us to have the same expectations or come to the same conclusions that we could have in the past historical economic downturns. This is bigger than any one administration and to combat it requires a progressive reassessment and unified effort from both political parties. This has yet to be accomplished.
That's what drives me nuts about political parties. I hate the politics of campaiigning. People can only say wat they support and would like to do. One person cannot make changes without cooperation. Then the blame game starts. The blame is usually by party, class or race.
American government was designed to be weak so as not to threaten the interests of individuals. You can see this as wonderful for personal freedom or merely wonderful for individuals with great personal power (generally derived from money).
I reckon it makes a mockery of democracy when politicians cannot follow through on campaign promises, governments cannot honour international treaties that they have signed and the normal situation is paralysis.
Hard to see why people in the US vote at all, lol.
I am praying for wisdom. I don't want to vote for either person running for president. I could vote for the vice presidents. Regardless of which one wins, there is going to be more venom and hate.
To the contrary , before Obama , there was far,far less divisive rhetoric , of racism or political ideologies , I believe as many do that he planned to divide . From the "Beer Summit " that any other leader would have totally ignored and watched disappear , to every " Michael Brown" incident Obama chose to step right into the pot and then turn the heat up . How many dozens of times has the likes of AL Sharpton been in the white House and been given full run of the media situation ?
Pres. Obama is very much complicit in all of this negativity today ! I would ask this question and await all answers !
Where is the outrage for other , then minorities ---today ? The native American , the Irish , the Chinese rail road workers , the Italians , what about the Appalachians TODAY , what about the mass influx of "Indentured Servitude "of the poor in our history as recently as the nineteen thirties and forties ? I have found the forms in public records looking up my own genealogy One would think that the only offenses ever perpetrated in America was to the black population ? My advice to blacks , Get over " racism ", until recently it barely exists but FROM blacks themselves !
I think President Obama was speaking specifically to incidences of police/suspect interaction where the suspect ends of dead. I look at Michael Brown in a completely different light from most of the others. I know others who feel the same way. Michael Brown had just committed a crime, roughed up a clerk and walked defiantly in the middle of the street which was a known offense.
Trayvon Martin should be alive today. Tamir Rice should be alive today. Eric (cigarette guy) should be alive today. Freddy Gray should be alive today. There are many others.
As a teacher I engaged many students with attitudes. Some were dangerous just having left juvy for attacking adults. I was trained to verbally descalate students. If they had a weapon or appeared animated, ready to attack, we were to call security.
The objective is to arrest, if there is a reason, and take to court for trial. I've heard that white people think Black people are violent. Sometimes the officers are upset because suspects are talking trash. I hear trash talking all the time as a teacher. In the inner city, trash talking is part of the culture. They trash talk to each other in other to survive in that environment or because it is fun. Officers should know how to function in that environment.
If you know of a high incidence where another group being killed in similar instances, please let me know. They are obviously not being videod and put on social media.
Does any one believe that a race in America that has a fatherless home ratio approaching seventy percent is a problem , this comes up in fact checking ?
Don't you believe that the fact that abortions kill more black children in America, than all other causes combined , is a problem in itself ?
Do any of you truly believe that any one with a lengthy criminal record before they are twenty years old is a sign of another problem ?
Let's see - can we make this about systematic racism ?
Can we then say that perhaps some ethnicities over other's in America , should "clean up their own house " , over others ?
Praise God, my father was in my home. There is a disproportionate number of homes without fathers in inner city areas. However, not everyone in inner city areas has a criminal record and/or commit crimes. I talk to my students about the consequences of no father in the home and the vicious circle that can be created.
Well if babies are being aborted, they can't commit crimes. I'm pro life but wondering how this fits into the point you are making.
Do you know what percent of black children have a record before the age of 20. I know many who don't. A small group of criminals can hold a community hostage.
Please explain the sysematic racism you are implying.
"ethnicities" needing to clean their own houses is a stereotype. Do you work with any Black people? Can you name 10 Black people you know who need to clean their houses?
Congratulations , You want to cure racism in America and fall right into the same blame game of most other liberals , "ITS GOT TO BE ANYONE ELSES FAULT ,BUT MINE ". that's the problem with liberally infested forums , they are just as delusionary anywhere else.
Let us know when you really want discuss racism seriously.
Whom am I blaming? Hurling accusations is not the way to have an honest discussion.
Please tell me whom I am blaming?
The only way to cure racism is in the heart. It cannot be legislated. You cannot demand that people stop hating.
The people who are saying Obama has been dividing the nation are either very racist, or simply aren't very educated. The president of the United States answers to the ruling elite. For instance: Abraham Lincoln rebuked the bankers who wanted to finance the Civil War at a high interest rate; a move that would have given them complete control, and enslaved the populace to an enormous debt; creating a system similar to the current Federal Reserve. As a result, Lincoln was assassinated. John Kennedy was also going after the Federal Reserve, and threatening their supremacy which had existed since 1913. He also was assassinated. I am certain that if Obama seriously challenged the status quo he would end up dead, just like Kennedy and Lincoln.
It is remarkable that people are saying that Obama has created a racial divide, since many black people feel he hasn't done enough to address racial inequality. People try to simplify politics, and the machinations of world governments, and it is much more complicated than that. We really can't point to one source, such as Obama, and suggest that he is the mastermind behind a racial divide that has existed for over 500 years! That is simply absurd. The FBI released a report in 2006 that the Ku Klux Klan had infiltrated police departments across the United States. That was ten years ago. I think we can agree that their goal wasn't simply to issue parking tickets! Their goal has always been to disrupt and to destroy the black community.
By infiltrating police departments the Klan has been able to attack the black community on several fronts. They have been able to insure a steady flow of narcotics and other illicit drugs into the inner cities. Of course this serves a four-fold purpose: it cripples the black community through drug addiction, increases the prison population which brings in big revenue for the state, increases revenue for the Klan, and encourages a negative racial stereotype among the mainstream.They can also use their influence to incite violence among rival gangs. This helps to demoralize the black community, as well as providing more fodder for the "prison for profit" system. The people who are accusing Obama and Black Lives Matter of increasing racial tension aren't even considering this angle. But when we consider the history of the Klan, along with the FBI report, and a little common sense, we arrive at a conclusion that is far more tangible than a conspiracy theory.
During the Jim Crow era the Klan operated more overtly. Today, they engage in more covert operations. Rather than directly attack the black community, they attack by proxy. This is a far more effective and comprehensive approach. By using their influence in Law Enforcement and other areas of government, they are able to manipulate the black community of the inner city and create the false impression that the puppet is the sole perpetrator, and that the oppressed are the violent aggressors. Many of the comments here reveal that this approach has been very effective.
I was unaware of the bankers trying to impose the high interest rates to finance the Civil Ware. Very interesting.
I just would really love for someone to articulate specifically what Obama has done. Facts will convince me.
What ends? What means?
My own g'grandparents moved West and homesteaded in a little valley ironically less than 50 miles from where I live now. I have the diary of one of their kids, telling of life there, where g'grandma was the first white woman to ever enter the valley and there was only one other person living there.
I've never heard of any run ins with any natives - there is no mention at all. I assume that the valley was, indeed, empty - reasonable as it was a small place and probably not large enough to support a village without agriculture while a day's walk away was a much larger valley with a beautiful lake. The stories in that little book were telling - it was not an easy life for them, and I appreciate and honor what they did and accomplished. Digging miles of irrigation canal, for instance, by hand and without even a transit to maintain grade. Building a log home single handedly and fencing acres of farm land with hand cut fencing. Raising a family, including a crippled girl (grandma) with any services or sales a 3 day wagon drive away.
So what evils did they commit? Or their parents, moving from Europe to the East Coast of America? Did the color of their skin define their evil? Did the sins of people 300 years before, on a different continent, transmit to anyone with the same color of skin? Were all your German ancestors evil because of white skin - you aren't tainted because although you carry the genes your skin tone is slightly different than "pure" Nordic Caucasian?
How dare you. Underneath we are all bloody red made by the same creator who gave us brains, hands and senses. How dare anyone pinpoint this negative BS called "racism." YES, there were slaves SO WHAT? YES there were whites looking for freedom of religion, loving God, who got ahold of this country and brought forth a wave of others who took it over by hook and crook. SO WHAT? It is behind us now. Why, for the love of humanity, look back. Can it do any good to rehash the mistakes of the past?????
For the hundredth time, we can make this country work thanks to a perfectly fine Constitution.
Cease pinpointing negative and just work toward solutions.
What are the solutions?
Common Sense, Respect and Love of the spirit operating in each and every Living soul!
Thanks for this freedom of speech.
No Kathryn, my blood is not the same color red. My blood is not tainted with greed, indifference, and genocide. Nor do I subscribe to the popular notion that we all have the same creator. That is just another Eurocentric concept that has poisoned the minds of the people.
Obviously you missed the point entirely. I was responding to someone who was bemoaning the fact that Michelle Obama was bringing up the past with her comment; a past that they felt should not be mentioned. But it is always a one way street in this respect with many Americans. They don't want us to speak of the atrocities, and the evil committed by their ancestors, and if we do they accuse us of dwelling on the past. But they, on the other hand, freely dwell on the past when they celebrate holidays like Columbus Day, and the 4th of July. But what they do is even worse, because they are glorifying evil, and ignoring the humanity of the First Nations, and the African slaves.
They bring up the past by putting faces of tyrants and slave owners on currency, and by erecting monuments that glorify an evil past. But the descendants of the European Invaders cannot have it both ways. And we will remind them at every turn, as we are exercising our freedom of speech; not a freedom of speech granted by a slave master, but the freedom of speech bestowed upon us by "our" God, and "our" creator. It is the same freedom of speech my ancestors enjoyed prior to 1492.
But when we look to the Middle East we see that the past is not behind us. The same Imperialist aggression that stole an entire continent and named it America is at work today in the Middle East. Innocent men, women, and children are dying because of the greedy Americans and their evil allies who will stop at nothing less than world domination. And now they are about to start World War III by defying Russia's warnings, and by placing their weapons of mass destruction on her doorstep. And this is the side that you are rooting for?
Kathryn , I can .
Almost All Native and African Americans have assimilated into the American mainstream of lifestyle , just like the rest of us ,where ever we were from ! Most of those that have , have done so realizing the reality of America's [ and the rest of the worlds ] often racial and colorful history ,...The problem with those like the above opinions is that they are mired in the false flags of modern apologist re-writers of ALL our REAL history . Their psyche is of an ego-centric , artistic literary opportunist , He is one of the kind that you would NEVER hear speak the way that he does IF he were in public . The likes of these people have a moral compass of opportunist liberal artistic flair in their presentations, Don't forget , as I have not , that you will find that his opinion of America's history is based on three things - The false faults of a raping, pillaging Columbus - [who never set foot on America soil ] the inclusion of like minded "others " in their victimhood -- and the modern anti- American atmosphere being promoted by liberal leadership in our government today . For them , Its also as if Slavery too was an American invention , an American occurrence only , instead of a world wide occurrence where most slaves were corralled , transported and sold by their own people !
If we ignore the miss-informed opportunist's of today ,they will recede into the woodwork from which they arrived , once the sympathetic political atmosphere they thoroughly enjoy , has been thrown out of office or impeached !
Your veiled threats are laughable. But of course, I am sure that such a brave man as yourself would speak your mind anywhere. I'm sure that you would have no problem speaking at a rally for the supporters of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, or Black Lives Matter. I am also sure that you would cheerfully stand in front of 500 members of the Palestine Liberation Organization and explain to them why they all have a "victim mentality", and why they should step up to the plate and go with the flow of Colonialism.
The atrocities of Columbus are well illustrated in the written account of Bartolome de las Casas entitled: A Short Account of the Destruction of the Indies and Historia de Las Indias:
English Version: http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/203 … mages.html
Spanish Version: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/49298/4 … 9298-h.htm
The journal of Columbus also illustrates his evil intent, and the excerpt in the image I provided here is from his journal. I learned the following by the time I was in the 5th grade: The Caribbean (also known as the West Indies) is a region of the Americas consisting of the Caribbean Sea, its islands, and the surrounding coasts. The region is located southeast of North America, east of Central America, and to the northwest of South America.
And apparently the New World Encyclopedia knows it too, as the preceding excerpt is from their page. So it appears that Columbus did set foot on American soil.
Furthermore, it would be quite ridiculous of the nations of North and South America to celebrate a man credited with the "discovery of America" when he never set foot on American soil! It appears that you are under the false impression that the only "Americans" on this side of the world are from the United States. But anyone living on this continent, whether it be the U.S. Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, or Argentina is considered an American. Gee Archie! Imagine that. There is actually a communist nation in America, replete with American citizens who are communists!
But you are right about one thing, Slavery was not an American invention. Slavery preceded the Roman Empire. However, the slavery that existed on the continent of America after the Invasion of 1492 was originally promoted and sanctioned by the Catholic Church, under the direction of Pope Nicholas V, who issued the papal bull "Dum Diversas" in 1452. This document authorized Afonso V of Portugal to conquer Saracens and pagans and consign them to "perpetual servitude". This is the evil work that planted the seeds of racism which had not previoulsy existed in the world, and which later led to the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. The Dum Diversas mitigated the evils of slavery in the minds of many Christian peasants; an ignorant mass of humanity who were led to believe through this evil document that it was the duty of the European Christian to enslave and dispossess all non-Christians, and that it was Gods will for them to do so. This is the mindset that later led to the concept of Manifest Destiny.
Yes, slavery did not begin in America, and neither did rape and murder. And so I suggest that the next time someone is accused of rape or murder that you should stand in their defense! You should inform the judge and jury that rape and murder did not begin in America, and that the accused was only doing what millions of men had done before him, since the beginning of time. You could also admonish his accusers to stop whining. People are raped and murdered every day, and these "victims" should get over it, and stop living in the past. Right?
Black Lives Matter, A.I.M., the Mexica Movment, and many other educational, and activist organizations, are proof that we have not "faded into the woodwork". In fact, we are in the processes of "replacing the woodwork" with a design that is far more appealing.
Wenchbisket ,
How easily you speak of the trials and tribulations of ALL of mankind a few hundred years ago ! Not having either been there at the time not suffering for one moment of your own modern day life. How easily YOU assume the victim-ology , the probable assumption of reparations , the horribly recorded suffrage of many peoples of ALL races ,White , Black, Brown or Red ALL for you own personal grandiose apparently !
It is actually shameful in my mind to have ever had had to explain the poverty of my own upbringing , or for that matter , any one here in America today ! There is however , far too much poverty and victim-ology even today CAUSED by poor leadership at the local levels . I see it in Appalachia in the poverty of a nations dying need of a natural resource . I've seen it on modern day Native American Reservations where apparently the subsidies and trust funds from the federal government are delivered to a few " Tribal Elders " monthly who drive Caddies , BMW's , live in fine houses while 99 % percent of the tribe suffer from extreme alcoholism , drug abuse , crack cocaine , meth use and extreme hunger ! AND where the federal Government has no jurisdiction to
interfere in the tribal elders economic abuse !
if YOU seriously believe America owes something MORE to Native American Tribes for the SELF abuse of alcoholism and drugs ,For the abuses by YOUR OWN TRIBAL ELDERS , Then YOU sir are way out of line in the course of Blame you throw at all other Americans today ! At this point in History -- it should be paramount that you blame your own leadership for economic corruption , graft , and theft of federal resources ALREADY allocated for the benefit of your people from trust funds well over a hundred years old . ! Your shameful rants of accusatory posts that ALWAYS blame Uncle Sam ; Are nothing more than a waste of human voice spent on a blame game undeserved by others and fully caused by YOUR OWN LEADERS !
You were not a victim nor I a perpetrator .
Wrench - Clean Up Your Own House First - and then I will listen seriously to you !
Your response is typical, and has no relevance to my original post. Instead, you offer up a rambling, disjointed helping of gobbledygook to make yourself feel better about being on the wrong side, and cheering for the losers. Hold on to your cowboy hat,pack up the velvet Elvis posters, and circle the wagons. As Karen Carpenter sang, "We've Only Just Begun!"
And you , are totally incapable of even articulating a realistic approach to begin discussing the problems of your own people ! That is the saddest part --your people ,supposedly the native American , will only gain ground in the freest nation , the freest economic atmosphere in the world in the world by blaming Columbus !
Wow , now there is progress !
ahorseback: "That is the saddest part --your people ,supposedly the native American , will only gain ground in the freest nation , the freest economic atmosphere in the world in the world by blaming Columbus !"
And yet, Trump wants to make America Great Again. It sounds like you think it is already great. Of course you think it would even be greater, if the liberals left the planet. Vote for Trump, he is a master at dividing and conquering. He will probably destroy the liberals by branding them and insulting them as he has and as you have. He is right up your alley. "Now there is progress."
Of course, if there was any doubt in anyone's mind as to the noun which describes you the best, I am confident you have now erased all doubt with this most recent post. And this illustrates the fundamental difference between you and I. On one hand, you will argue that you are unbiased in your opinions toward The Indigenous and the African. But on the other hand, your commentary reveals an entirely different picture. But I do not try to hide behind a facade of friendliness, "brotherly love", or nationalism.
I am not afraid to say who I am, and how I feel about the evil of America: yesterday,today,and tomorrow. Nor am I afraid to express my disgust toward the apologist who embraces an evil past through national holidays, yet admonishes: "Forget about the genocide and the atrocities committed by my evil ancestors. Don't Worry Be Happy! Just eat the barbecue, drink the beer, and when you are all done we can hold hands and sing another rousing rendition of "Kumbaya", and "We Are The World". And there is no hypocrisy or contradictions, and this is verified through my consistent, and relentless commentary.
My desire is similar to that of Jesus, or any number of Anarchist's throughout the historical record. My desire is to see the entire human race freed from this yoke of oppression, and to see these monuments of evil that have perverted the natural order brought to ruin.Your general lack of understanding, and your pitiful attempt to offend, only further illustrate how easy it will be to overcome this evil system, once the people are educated and stand together in solidarity.
Someday the people will be educated, will stand together in solidarity and will embrace anarchy.
It is a shame your words cannot be accepted. But as a country that lives in a fantasy of history and cannot look at itself through a clear lens your words offend too many to count. Our history is a jaded one with greed at its core. The very discovery of it was a commercial enterprise that enslaved people when the opportunity arose. I agree with much of what you say but you run light years ahead with your accusations while many ponder and dismiss that which they find abhorring and or above their head.
Recover,
I am 65 and was forced to retire from a job I loved because they wanted to reduce the salary budget. Before that I was harrassed for 4 years, given bad evaluations and stalked. Because I was use to harrassment, I knew to document everything and write rebuttals to evaluations that showed how ridiculous evaluators were. Example: I didn't pass out popsicle sticks for students to let me know what they didn't understand. I was told students couldn't sing until it was time for a program. The class was called "Choir."
You are white female over 50. I'm Black female, over 65, BBA, MBA, certified to teach Business and Music, and have known discrimination since I was a child.
"Blacks have more rights now than ever." That is soooo true. However, rights mean nothing if people are in a position to deny those rights.
I don't believe slavery should be forgotten. It is part of America history. But it should be portrayed appropriately. I think it is wrong and dangerous when any group''s worth is devalued. But throughout history this has happened and been repeated many times.
One of the reasons it is in the media today is because of the use of force by police officers. If a black person does not comply with their commands and they think it endangers their life or the life of others, they are allowed to use lethal force. The black people are upset because those officers are put on administrative leave and there is usually a long grand jury trial and then the officers in almost every case are not charged as criminals. Black lives do matter. And black people see this as a great injustice. The reason this happens is because law enforcement has the Fraternal Order of Police who have great legal defense lawyers who are pledged to defend fellow officers.
Am I being racist because I use the word Black? We are wired to see the differences in each other. How and why it is used is another story. We all belong to one race and that is the human race. If an alien were to come to this planet, they would see the human race in all its variations.
When a group is devalued, it is to gain power. Slavery was used to use human power to perform the tasks required of the plantation owners. Undoubtedly, there are still people who resent and hate black people for many reasons. The problem is, as in any culture, there are various economic levels. There are the poor, the middle class, and the upper class. To classify blacks into one class is doing them a huge disservice, especially the President of the United States and his family. For the First Lady to talk about slavery is appropriate because it is part of her heritage.
One of the behaviors of a conquering force is to rape pillage, and interbreed with those who they have conquered. This causes the gene pool to be spread to others. In time that gene pool will be spread to where we look more like each other. Again, am I being racists? I believe it is just human nature to spread the gene pool. it has happened throughout human history. Look at what the Conquistadors did to South American Indians.
If I were near you, I'd give you a big hug. You are the kind of person that can change the world for the better. You remind me of my Ida W. Moose. I wrote several articles about her on Hubpages. She passed away June 20, 2014. I'm crying as I write about her so I'll STOP!!!
Ah, thank you Diane. I just calls them as I see them. I'm sorry I made you cry. Have a great day.
Todays extremely divisive media , a rhetorically and much politically divided voting public , a President who has re-awakened racial divides by the re-awakening of negative and ancient racial discourse , the influx and growth of social media , the naiveté of a youthful and entitled last couple of generations , Gee . I think I know why there can be no progress .
Americans , of a mature age , long ago had all but healed this country through the sixties street revolutions and honest public and media dialog that apparently Pres. Obama felt that he had missed out on enough to re- awaken it by his support of the negative factors in todays society and minority cultures . As long as the media utilizes the likes of Al "race-baiter " Sharpton , Jesse Jackson , the BLM , The New Black Panthers , the Old Black Panthers , etc. , we will continue with these violent and unproductive discussions and actions that will only add fuel to an old and long since dying fire .
Even one of the newest terms . "Systematic Racism ". Is nothing but an all out attempt to guilt the rest of America into a failed political correctness of social , political , and institutional affirmative action .
Guess what , we already instituted that decades ago . At what point does affirmative action then become the new imbalance of opportunity ?
Actually , I believe that America as a whole would love to have this discussion , they would welcome it , but . A real one . Not one created out of an academia of pseudo- socialist phony intellectualisms, not out of Ivy league hotbeds of socio-political divisiveness . The Bill Ayers ,the Reverend Wrights ?The Al Sharpton's ,black race .of the No . Someone , anyone with a sense of healing rather than of dividing !
I remember the Black Panthers. I've heard more about the New Black Panthers from people condemning them. I can't name one. Do they have a leader? I think people are making a much bigger deal of a wanna be important group than there really is. Just looked at the NBP website.
@NewBlackPanthr1
TWEETS
2,567
FOLLOWING
1,558
FOLLOWERS
5,582
LIKES
17
How much power do they have with 17 likes? There's one person's name on the website. The guy is probably a Black Muslim. His name is Min. Hashim Nzinga. This is probably one or two people trying to bring back the Black Panther Party.
Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson, etc. Who listens to them? I think it was Freddie Gray's parents who encouraged Al Sharpton to not show up for the funeral. People who want to make them Black "leaders" pay way more attention to them than Black people. Rev. Wright/Ayers? What are they doing?
An example of systemic racism is the War on Drugs which dealt with stiff sentences for the types of drugs Black people used and did not address the drugs that the white kids were using. Bill Clinton said he is sorry that he instituted the 3 Strikes because that caused Blacks to be incarcerated at a higher rate than Whites.
The tainted jury for George Zimmerman and the villification of Trayvon Martin includes examples. The jury foreman, wife of an attorney, was allowed to have dinner with her husband, twisted peoples arms, and there were no Blacks on the jury.
ahorseback: And there you are, true to form, blame the liberals for all your woes. I suspect you think if all the liberals would move to another planet. All of America would be a great place to live.
You have just divided the country by blaming the liberals for everything. You are more of an intellectual than you realize with your vocabulary and your flowery poetic language.
"pseudo- socialist phony intellectualisms and "Ivy league hotbeds of socio-political divisiveness " are pretty big words for a just ordinary person like yourself. Are you sure, you are not a pseudo- conservative intellectual? You sure write like one!
Peoplepower, If not the liberal policies, who should we blame? In the last 50 years, we had the war on poverty under Johnson, and yet the percent of the poor remained the same at about 10%. We've had welfare that broke up black families so they can get the benefits...child subsidies and housing and food...
We had record food stamps being promoted by our own Agriculture Dept. and yet we are told people are going to bed hungry... We have broken schools in our inner cities that can't teach and the teachers union refuse to bring reform. We have an open border that allows immigrants to come hear and take jobs that American's won't do...we have 20 trillion deficits that are going even higher despite the record revenue to the IRS last few years...we have police being gunned down in the streets while politicians pander to BLM.
I believe preconception has the most leverage in why the conversation turns ugly quickly. I have broached the subject with a few when I felt they were open to the subject. One a few occasions I have been met with some openness and and candor. But in many cases I have found defensive and aggressive tones that stop everything.
The idea that a society can believe that taking people against their will and being sold to another for whatever that person wanted is beyond my understanding. Some say it was a sign of the times and the crudeness of the societal understanding then. I have read much on this and to me it was greed based just as much as it is today. Until we understand that no change will occur.
History is full of what you described and in the Bible as well. What is missing is the willingness on some to let go of the past. Healing begins with forgiveness. As a country, we need to move forward and not let the past chain us to the status quo. There will always be some racist in the world. We are an imperfect world. However, our country and laws and most citizens have evolved past the racism of the past. It is sad that some continue to hold on to these gripes and won't let go.
In 2016 America, there is no reason why anyone can't get a good education, get healthcare, get food and be free. You cannot say the same about 90% of the rest of the world.
Jacklee, I went to your page to look at your Hubs. You mentioned not being able to discuss race with the Black people you associate with. I am now understanding why.
When you refer to the Black community, that is a concept I can't relate to. A community lives in the same locale. You listed some Black role models that are without a doubt accomplished men. However, you seem to have no regard for the average American Black person that takes works in a factory, as a teacher, or does odd jobs to supplement his income. My father, with an 8th grade education, worked 40 hours as a baggage handler. Then he worked 6 days a week cleaning houses, painting, hauling things or whatever he could for us. I have loads of cousins and uncles who were bricklayers.
Other than give advice, what have you specifically done to mentor Black people. When a person has nothing to give but advice, people tend to steer clear of you. There are many Black people in the inner city; however there are many Black people with good paying jobs who live in places other than the inner city. I don't live in the inner city but I help my family members and friends giving guidance, financial support when necessary, and praying and giving emotional support daily.
Is there any Black person you are helping to accomplish the things you are talking about?
Please don't take this in a mean way. You may have a sincere desire to help but it sounds like you are looking down on Black people telling them why they aren't making it and what they need to do.
I am glad you asked. I am not talking about your father because he seems to be doing just fine. When I talk about black community in general, I am focusing more on the inner city poor.
Let me give you some background on what I've done personally since you asked. In 2000, IBM started a volunteer program called Aristotle 2000. I volunteered to be a big brother for a poor black youth who is having problems at home. His father is a truck driver who is on the road most of the time. He needed some guidance in preparing for high school. I spent time with him to provide just a role model and adult figure.
When I was in college, I joined the fencing team at CCNY. You can read my autobiography and I have a whole chapter on my experience. The school is located in the center of Harlem NY. We have many black kids on our team. In fact, our team has all races and creed. We got along beautifully. Most of the families that attended CCNY were not well off. The school was essentially free public college at the time. However, we supported each other both on and off the fencing strip. I made some life long friends there.
At IBM, one our our colleagues who is black and works as a PC technician. I mentioned him in one of my stories. His name was OJ and he refers to himself as the "good" OJ. He is a well adjusted young man, 10 years my junior and we got along well. He lived the good life straight and narrow. He came from a poor background and had sibliings that were troubled. He was different and got hired by IBM.
Finally, after IBM, I worked for a non profit agency in Rockland county. It was a place that help people with disability to have a full and independent life. One of our co workers there is Jamacan black. She and I would have conversations over lunch sometimes and we cannot agree on our politics. She is one of the person I alluded to. I cannot get off first base talking about the prolbems with race. She told me that I could not understand their issues because my skin color is not black... What do you say after that?
I understand exactly why the Jamaican lady told you you couldn't understand.
1. You say you use "inner city" interchangeably with Black. The inner city includes other ethnicities. The Hispanic inner city population is growing.
2. Not all Black people are poor. 27.4% poor is nothing to brag about bu
Among racial and ethnic groups, African Americans had the highest poverty rate, 27.4 percent, followed by Hispanics at 26.6 percent and whites at 9.9 percent. 45.8 percent of young black children (under age 6) live in poverty, compared to 14.5 percent of white children.
https://www.google.com/#q=what+percenta … in+poverty
3. The statement "He's different." is very troubling. This indicates that he is "not like the rest of Blacks." The perception of Black is as is seen on television or passeddown through history. Examples: Black people are stupid. Black people have small brains and are not as intelligent as white people
Can you please explain what "different" means?
I'll be glad to. By different, I mean he did not fit the stereotype of young blacks. He did not do drugs or smoke. He dressed neat and always pressed his own shirts. He is respectful and well spoken. He wants to learn and improve his standing. He is always helpful and willing to go the extra mile. I'm sure some of these qualities that got him hired in the first place. From our discussions, apparently, he is not the typical child in his family. Some of his siblings and cousins got into trouble with the law. He didn't go into details but it is apparent to me that personal behavior plays a role.
Again, I want to emphasize, this is one of a few incidences I had. It is not to say "all" blacks are this and that...It is a pattern that is all too common.
Why black teens don't get the jobs that get them started in a career? Why they don't stay in school and finish HS and get a degree? why they choose to use drugs or worst deal drugs... Why they dress unconventionally... why they join gangs? why they have babies out of wedlock in high numbers?
Why they don't reject violence? Why they don't respect the law or police? why they choose confrontation ? So many questions...
I get that blacks were dealt a bad hand from the start. However, that should not stop someone to get ahead by behaving what society expects. Getting a good education, help others, work hard, stay close to family, attend church services...all behaviors that will lead to a better outcome.
I'll be glad to. By different, I mean he did not fit the stereotype of young blacks. He did not do drugs or smoke. He dressed neat and always pressed his own shirts. He is respectful and well spoken. He wants to learn and improve his standing. He is always helpful and willing to go the extra mile. I'm sure some of these qualities that got him hired in the first place. From our discussions, apparently, he is not the typical child in his family. Some of his siblings and cousins got into trouble with the law. He didn't go into details but it is apparent to me that personal behavior plays a role.
Again, I want to emphasize, this is one of a few incidences I had. It is not to say "all" blacks are this and that...It is a pattern that is all too common.
Why black teens don't get the jobs that get them started in a career? Why they don't stay in school and finish HS and get a degree? why they choose to use drugs or worst deal drugs... Why they dress unconventionally... why they join gangs? why they have babies out of wedlock in high numbers?
Why they don't reject violence? Why they don't respect the law or police? why they choose confrontation ? So many questions...
I get that blacks were dealt a bad hand from the start. However, that should not stop someone to get ahead by behaving what society expects. Getting a good education, help others, work hard, stay close to family, attend church services...all behaviors that will lead to a better outcome.
Jackclee, You have provided the classic stereotype that you see on television. How many people do you know personally that look like that and act like that?
When you talked about the Black guy that was hired, it sounded like he was the only Black person they could find that was articulate and ready to hire.
This is a really good question. I'm not so sure that slavery really needs to be discussed 'as a rule', anymore. For instance, I don't think it was necessary for Mrs. Obama to make the comment. It's not like slavery is supposed to be an issue for us, anymore. But, in this day and age, with the 'Black Lives Matter' movement clashing with the 'the BLM is a conspiracy' flipside - it was bound to cause a ruckus among conservatives who are uncomfortable being reminded about such ugly history.
However, I also think in this case, Mrs Obama wasn't necessarily trying to irritate anyone - she was simply being the color that she is, commenting on a past historical situation in order to highlight it - because it IS an important thing to keep in mind and commemorate. I mean, WHO ELSE aside from her husband is going to be able to say such a thing for a while? Who else is going to think that it is something to treasure and point out how far we have come as a country in that racist regard?
It was just a comment as innocent as any term of endearment; and the fact that any conservative came unglued just highlights how far we have yet to go. Stay awake.
Don't know if they still do, but Germany used to keep some concentration camps open and available to the public to tour - school children were required to visit at least once during their schooling.
Remembering history, both the good and bad, is not a bad thing. Let's not forget what our country has done in both cases and try to learn from the past.
*shrug* It is as foolish to forget or bury the undesirable parts of our history as it is to demand that a third party pay reparations to yet a fourth party when neither one had anything to do with what happened centuries ago.
It makes about as much sense as to ask today's blacks to pay the descendants of poor, deep south sharecroppers that didn't have slaves because they didn't volunteer to BE slaves for him.
I agree with you on reparations. Where will that money come from???
What confuses me about the end of slavery which Blacks celebrate, it seems to anger many whites. Are they angry because there was slavery or because slavery ended.
It should have been a win/win situation, but was it?
What do you think?
Bearing in mind that a very small percentage of the population owned slaves, it seems improbable that people didn't like it ending.
If it's modern people you mean, it might be that they view it as a request for something in return for being a slave (though I have a hard time thinking any more than a handful are angry it ended). Or perhaps they view it as a slap in the face, continually renewed, at what happened and they perceive it as being blamed for it. Which, in all too many cases, they are. Anyone with a caucasian background is, whether they kept slaves, their remote ancestors did or their entire ancestry had nothing whatsoever to do with anything remotely connected to slavery.
Slaves and land were the main forms of wealth in the US before 1860. The most profitable activity on Wall Street was the slave trade. You have a talent for building strawmen, and creating amazing fiction. Your suggestion that a white, dirt poor potato farmer in Idaho, or an inbred hillbilly in Appalachia would be responsible for reparations is laughable, but very convincing to the uneducated. Here I have provided a "short list" of American companies that created fortunes through the slave trade. These are first parties, and the descendants of those slaves are also the first parties. And there can be no argument.
Believe it or not, African slaves were also human beings. It is not uncommon for parents, grand parents, and great grand parents, to provide for the future of their children,and successive generations. Everyone knows this to be true. Consequently, it is not unreasonable to expect that African slaves would have desired that their descendants would someday benefit from their forced, and inhumane servitude. A horror that lasted nearly 400 years! Saying "We're Sorry!" or handing out welfare checks simply isn't enough. Reparations must not only be delivered as a single payment of cash, but also in the form of guaranteed job opportunities and economic parity. The companies I have listed here are the ones who are obligated more than anyone else to pay reparations, as they, and all of those along the gravy train, are the ones who have benefited most from a crime against humanity. They have the means to pay, and it would be in their best interest to start paying A.S.A.P.. The recent mantra of the righteous: "No Justice No Peace" is not exclusively tied to police brutality.
Short List of American Companies Who Must Pay Reparations
AIG – bought American General Financial which owns US Life Insurance Company. US Life used to insure the lives of slaves.
Aetna – insured the lives of slaves in the 1850s.
Bank of America – grew in part out of the Bank of Metropolis, which accepted slaves as collateral.
Brooks Brothers – got its start making clothes for slaves!
Brown Brothers Harriman – a Wall Street bank that owned hundreds of slaves and lent millions to Southern planters, merchants and cotton traders.
Brown University – named for the Brown brothers who gave money to the university. Two were slave traders, another ran a factory that used slave-grown cotton. University Hall was built in part by slave labour.
CSX – rented slaves to build rail lines.
Fleet Boston – grew out of Providence Bank, founded by one of the Brown brothers (see Brown University above), a slave trader who owned slave ships. The bank made money from the slave trade. Providence, Rhode Island was the home port for many slave ships.
Harvard Law School – endowed with money from Isaac Royall, an Antiguan slave owner and sugar grower.
JP Morgan Chase – made a fortune from the slave trade. Predecessor banks (Citizens Bank, Canal Bank in Louisiana) accepted slaves as collateral, taking possession of 1,250 slaves from owners who defaulted on loans.
New York Life – insured slaves. Of its first 1,000 insurance polices, 339 were policies on slaves.
Norfolk Southern – the Mobile & Girard, now part of Norfolk Southern, rented slaves to work on the railroad. Central of Georgia, also now part of the company, owned slaves.
Princeton – raised money and recruited students from rich, slave-owning families in the South and the Caribbean. Princeton was not alone in hitting up slave owners and traders for money and students. So did:
Harvard,
Yale,
Penn,
Columbia,
Rutgers,
Brown,
Dartmouth and the
University of Delaware.
By the middle 1700s, most Princeton students were the sons of slave owners. Many of Columbia’s students were sons of slave traders.
Tiffany’s – founded with profits from a cotton mill in Connecticut that processed slave-grown cotton.
USA Today – its parent company, Gannett, had links to slavery.
Wells Fargo – Georgia Railroad & Banking Company and the Bank of Charleston owned or accepted slaves as collateral. They later became part of Wells Fargo by way of Wachovia. (In the 2000s Wells Fargo targeted blacks for predatory lending.)
I think this is a brave question. It is imperative that our history never be forgotten in the hope that it will not be repeated. I admire Mrs. Obama for her ability to cut to the chase and state what was and what is. The rights and wrongs of the past can only be undone when we are not afraid to look at them and to speak about them, not in hatred or judgement, building together a future that promises that this horrific history will and should never be repeated. Sadly there are hundreds of thousands on enslaved children feeding the west right now because we enable the slavery of children too poor and uneducated to stand up for their rights from parents whose spirits have been destroyed by greed and selfishness.
I can only speak on my lens and what everyone must understand is that everyone has their own lens to look through. No one has had the same experiences, so these issues means different things to different people.
Slavery has not happened in this country in a couple hundred years and when it was going on, there was only a small fraction of the population that had slaves. I think it should be talked about in a historical sense, not as though it is a current issue.
We do not have slavery issues, we have discrimination issues. So when slavery is brought up in such a way, most people will not see how that pertains to now. Every country is founded on fighting, stealing, enslaving for thousands of years. No one was spared if you go back far enough. Indigenous populations have always felt the brunt of those times. American Indians only make up about 2% of the population now because like many indigenous populations, they were practically wiped out.
Racism cannot be ended with laws and regulations. It is with each situation, each interaction that our lens is shaped. So let us discuss the now. What needs to happen now is more understanding and kindness towards all, to change another person's lens just a little bit more. Laws do not change hearts, people do.
The extremes on both sides make it difficult for most to have a productive dialogue, especially online. I have had great conversations in person with those I am close with of all races, but it seems that to discuss things now on an online platform is rather tricky. Everyone is afraid of being taken the wrong way.
White guilt and white privilege are hard for many people to feel and understand. I think the bottom half that are struggling in today's economy does not feel very privileged and this has created a sense of resentment in a way for some who are struggling just to make it. You have millions of whites in poverty that will not relate to the idea that they are privileged in any way. You have millions in the middle class that are not going to relate that all of the hard work they have done to scrape up the economic ladder was due to their skin color and not their own hard work. Many people cannot relate to a guilt for something that they had nothing to do with hundreds of years ago.
Thus two sides divided and our country is becoming more divided. It isn't because people don't care, but the subject is a minefield and no one wants to explode.
Girl keep talking! That's the point I've been trying to make. It was real and meant something different based on your position at that time. We need to acknowledge history but use it in a positive way to do better. It should not divide us. It should unite us.
The slave owners are DEAD. The slaves are DEAD. There is nothing white people can do to change what happened and they didn't inherit the position of slave owners. Black people are no longer slaves or property.
Issues now are pride and unforgiving hearts. My sister is angry at my deceased parents whom I love dearly. I see them differently than she did. Her anger is destroying her. I love her and am willing to help in any way I can but I will not feel guilty for what I did not do nor had control over.
Thank you for your thoughts. We need more comments like this. They are conciliatory. As the discussion goes on, I'm seeing very good comments. I hope we continue.
At the end, if one person is no longer bitter but will to communicate with compassion, we've done a good job.
The Islamic State West Africa, Boko Haram, kidnaps females in Nigeria and sells them as salves. I hope that you will keep them in your prayers and thoughts. It is with a heavy heart that I keep the missing women and girls in my prayers. Arabs have black slaves.
I pray for violated people and the loved ones of those horribly killed all over the world. I pray for the people who live a life of hatred that allows them to rape and kill innocent children. I pray that they will realize that love builds and hate destroys. It seems they love to destroy. It's unfathomable.
Its about the money and the greedy, divide and conquer. We need to stand united because that is at the root of it.
I am willing to try most things Colorful!
“The stressor at work here is the perceived and real loss of the social and economic advantages of being white.”
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc … ss/492731/
I finally read the rest of this article titled: The Original Underclass, Poor white Americans’ current crisis shouldn’t have caught the rest of the country as off guard as it has.
The article is quite relevant to the discussion of race and status and reaction to Michelle Obama's statement.
I find this article is "all in " about the problems in America ! Interestingly , I find myself a part of the upbringing described in that article . The group of people somehow surviving the abject poverty described in the article being of my own personal experience . Ten kids , working class parents [both of them ] in the fifties and sixties seventies .
And THAT exactly is why I always find myself disgusted with the racism rhetoric , the racial divide , the whine of people of any ethnic division in America , Poverty is poverty , hunger is hunger , being cold in the winter winds feels exactly the same ,No matter ones skin color , no matter ones ethnic origins ! So when 'false flags ' of the cries and screams of people calling out especially racism , systematic bias , all of the "slavery " rhetoric , all of the "blame the other race ," comes to the forefront ? My mind goes back to those days of hunger , poverty , economic desperation .
Why can't people discuss race in a productive manner ? Because for many it is the race of poverty against richness . Not the color of ones skin , especially when claiming a certain victimhood simply because of color - as if because one is "white " they are somehow better off simply because of that ? Please .
Time for everyone to get mature , to get real ,no matter what skin tone !
Clearly, in my opinion, there is racism today. Dylan Roof's action in Charleston was to start a race war. The KKK supports Donald Trump. The Black guy in Dallas that killed all of those police officers was inolved in some hate groups and/or suffered from PTSD. I related a couple of my recent situations a couple of posts back.
There are many other incidents that show up on social media often. Can you deny that they are racists and/or racist actions? Or are you saying there should not be any racism. We should be working together to have a better society?
Thank you for reading the article. I tend to like to read short articles.
A Racist Is A Terrible Thing To Waste
I am more human than human. If I got any more "real" I wouldn't be able to keep my feet on the ground, as I would no longer be bound by the laws of gravity. Read, Learn, Comprehend, and behold the beauty of the truth!
There is no need in looking for a cure for heart disease. The American Heart Association is simply wasting time and money. Why? Because people are dying of cancer. Whey should we care about heart disease when people are dying of cancer? And there is no need in seeking a cure for cancer because people are dying of diabetes. Why should we waste our time trying to cure heart disease and cancer when people are dying of diabetes? And seeking a cure for diabetes is a waste of time because people are suffering from alzheimers disease. And seeking a cure for alzheimers is a waste of time, not only because of all of the aboce, but also because over 40,000 people die in the United States each year as the result of MVC's. And there is no need in preventing MVC's because people are going to die anyway. So there is really no point in worrying about the prevention of disease, or fatal accidents. The only two things we need to worry about are Paying Taxes, and Funeral Arrangements.
•Paying taxes: Paying taxes is of the utmost importance. Without taxes, the racist government of the United States couldn't fund the proxy war in Syria, or arm terrorist groups like ISIS. Without perpetual war, the rich could not get richer. And in order to have perpetual war, it is necessary to create terrorist organizations to justify the war.
• Funeral Arrangements: It is important to take care of our funeral arrangements well in advance. Otherwise, our racist relatives, and our racist loved ones, will have to fight over who has to pay funeral expenses with their share of the inheritance.
Funerals can get nasty. Deaths bring out the worst in humanity.
Thank you everyone, regardless of your position, for having a civil discussion. Conversation is always productive when we don't personally attack each other.
Have a nice day everyone!
It's fine to discuss our various opinions. However, I don't see a lot of action as a result. It is frustrating for me that so little progress is being made. Where are the movers and shakers of our generation? where is Dr. King or Ronald Reagan when we need them?
We have a broken political system controlled by the elites (money class).
They are perfectly happy for the two party to biker and attack each other while nothing gets resolved. Meanwhile, they are making money on the backs of the people and the government (via mis-spent tax dollars).
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
Why do people keep voting the same people into office?
Food for thought.
Thanks Diana for posing the question. I am going to work on my book...
Change won't come from the government and it shouldn't! Change starts in our hearts. Who should take action? US!!! If not us, then who?
When I quit my first job, I did so because I wanted to help kids. I became frustrating because, as a teacher, I was caught up in the system. However, I did have little groups that I helped each year. In 2013, i received a phone call at work. A student I taught in 1998 looked on the Internet to find me. He invited me to his studio in LA.
Back in 1998 this kid was failing all of his classes. His mom made him work at night to help support the family. He would come to school late and the school threatened to kick him out. I would call him every morning at 6 am to make sure he got up and got to school. When he came to my class, I would let him sleep in the back of the room. He said he couldn't understand anything in any of the classes. Today he is a supervisor on his job and a good father.
Last year a former student who was in the same class with this male student friended me on FB. She works for UPS and is a supervisor on her job. She is beautiful and does a lot of modeling.
I could go on and on about students I friended along the way and they thank me for the impact I had on their lives. Half of my FB friends are former students.
The BIble says, "The poor you will always have with you." We can't wave a magic want and then have no more poor people. We can help those that are in our paths through work or as a volunteer. Verbally giving advice will have zero impact. When you give of yourself, people see that you care. When they know that you care, they will listen.
In my economics class, years ago, we study about Thomas Malthus. He was concerned that "the food supply was increasing arithmatically but the population was increasing geometrically."
If we help people, and then each of those people helps other people, we can have the same impact.
If starts with us.
Diana, I get it, you did your part and the people around you are better of. That is great. i applaud you. You are correct, government can't do this. That is what conservatives have been saying for years and no one listened. I am willing to bet you vote Democratic every election. Right? Why are you supporting a party that is for big government? More entitlements? More regulations? Common core? i can go on...
You seems to understand human nature but yet you don't extend that knowledge to apply to government.
How do we get more teachers like you into our public schools? Who is preventing this?
Why do you think I vote Democrat every year?
That is turning the question on me. I don't know for sure but I can venture a guess. I think the black community have been deceived by the Democratic party into believing they are the party of good and they are there to help all people... In fact, they have done little for the poor and the black and other minorities. Their progressive policies in the past have brought our country to the current state. Where real unemployment is near 10%, higher in the minorities precinct, food stamps use is near all time high, 50 percent of Americans living from paycheck to paycheck, wages have been stagnant for years... while Wall street and investor class have done very well. Guess who donates to both parties...and who controls policies in Washington?
Meanwhile, Conservatives have been demonized for wanting to do the "right" thing. Reduce taxes to stimulate growth and cut spending to help lower our debt and deficits. Giving parents school choices to help with our educations system... and many other alternative policies that do not see the light of day.
Anyway, food for thought.
I will suggest one book to read, Hillary's America by Dinesh D'Souza. You will learn some history...
Standard conservative dogma, Jack. I am well educated and am quite aware of whom it is I vote for and why. Don't you find that a bit arrogant? How do you explain that support for the Democrats among Blacks transcends all income and educational levels. Yet, who is it that are so sure that we are being collectively 'duped'?
This is part of the stereotype Jackclee! I'm an Independent. I did not vote for President Obama either time. I don't hate him but came unglued when he went to the bathroom issue back in April. I have very high regard for Michelle Obama's education, accomplishments and the way she dresses. I'm trying to think of the last time I voted for a Democrat for president.
Until I came to California at the age of 22, I only knew one person getting food stamps. It was a schoolmate who was 18 and taking care of her 3 brothers and 1 sister because their mother died. My dad worked 12 to18 hours a day. We never got welfare and never had a food stamp. My father wanted nothing to do witih applying for something free which he thought they might take back later. He worked for everything we had.
I have had people call me a racist against Black people because of some of my views. I don't have loyalty to any party. I believe too many people are having babies without being married and see how it impacts the children trying to attend school. AND there are racists. One does not negate the other. There is work to be done by everybody. It doesn't matter that we didn't not create the problem. What is important is that we all participate in a solution.
I know white people today were not involved in slavery; however, the existence of slavery is shown in history of my ancestors. I'm not an angry Black woman. I don't think Michelle Obama is an angry Black woman. A real discussion of race includes the resentment of Black people who overcome the obstacles that are there every day. It is a human emotion for people to be jealous of each other. When Black people overcome, it really upsets those who like to thing we are less than they are. That is really what upset people about Michelle Obama. They distort pictures of her to try to make her look like an animal and distort her what she says. My dad used to always say, "Get yourself a good eduation. Nobody can take that from you." My father was a wise man with an 8th grade education who always encouraged us to go farther than he did. All Blacks are not poor. All Blacks are not on welfare (numerically, more white people are on welfare). All Blacks don't like in the inner city. All Blacks are not Democrats. I'll stop here. I don't want to write so much that no one reads.
Deleted
I'm sorry, but the constant string of links to your hubs is getting tiring. Self promotion in the forums IS against HP policy, you know.
Sorry to annoy you. Do you think this is self promotion? I have better things to do. I am trying to expand the discussion. If you have better ideas, bring it on... That is what freedom of Speech is all about.
Under guidelines from HP, it is self promotion. Posting links to your hubs is prohibited but for asking for help in improving them, and that is available only in specific forums.
Thanks for the information. Always learn something...
I have deleted my post here and started a new forum as you suggested...
Jackclee, why don't you start with a forum, rather than a hub. When you have enough input, then write a hub. You have pretty much stated your views several times. You need to write in a way that will encourage people to respond.
I have engaged in forum discussions as you are aware. The problem I see with forum discussions is that there is no structure or focus. It is just random ideas back an forth. What I am aiming for is a real discussion on ideas and policies that can change society in a positive way. I have tried this format in other discussions with another hubber on climate change. I think it will be a good way to educate and disseminate information. Information that are not available in the general press.
I try to keep people focused on the topic when I do a forum. However, I thought it was a good idea to let people say what they want hear as long as it is race-related.
It seems you want to discuss the merits of the conservative position. Perhaps you should look through the Hubs and forums to see if others have written similar Hubs. I hope you get your audience.
Thanks for the suggestion.
I will do that.
What is your impression of conservatives?
What is your opinion of Dr. Carson, and Clearance Thomas and Thomas Sowell?
Just curious.
Do you know why they don't resonate with the Black community?
I'm sure most kids don't know who they are. Children, as I did as a child, are not interested in the news. I use to show news clips of things that were happening. The kids never heard of them. You are speaking as an older, intellectual person. When you were a child, who were your role models.
Unless things have changed, I don't thing there is anything in textbooks about them.
I strong dislike reference to the "Black" community. We don't all live together. I suppose the term is used because of the color of our skin. We are all different as I continue to say. The life experiences are different. There are probably a couple of kids somewhere who are interested in them. My nephew, while attending Georgetown, met Clarence Thomas.
Are you part of an Asian community? How does that community function?
No I am not part of the Asian community because I don't live in them. I grew up in NYC and now live in the suburbs. My kids went to Chinese school on Saturdays to learn some basic Chinese and Culture.
I consider myself, a Christian American. I am not asking about children per se. I am curious about what you think? You say you don't like the term black community, then what term would you want me to use? I am interested in your opinion of some black leaders. Perhaps you can think about that and what some of your peers also think? You want the rest of America to discuss race issues but you are not willing to discuss some political views of your own race. To me, they are tied intricately.
If I was a teacher in the inner cities school, I would want my kids exposed to all political views. I would want them to read the biographies of MLK, and Thomas and Carson. They can relate to those individuals more than others that I also recommend. I would also stress individual responsibility and doing the "right" thing. I would bring God into the discussion and not tied to a particular religion but just the fact that our country was founded with divine providence. Keep God out of the public school and the public square was one of the mistakes we made as a country, and we are paying the price. You say you are a Christian, and yet you support a party that is anti religion, anti pro life and anti law and order when it comes to border control...how do you square that?
? Independent is anti-religion. I accepted Christ as my personal Savior November 5, 1978. I am part of the Christian community at my church.
I have not given birth to any children. My children are the kids in my family that I mentor and spend time with. I've helped pay for college and purchased a home to provide stability for a disabled niece and nephew. I really don't see a need to talk about what I have done for Black people. The Lord knows.
This forum evolved from my curiosity of why white people were upset with Michelle Obama for what she said.
It's interesting that you are not part of the Asian Community but I am part of the Black Community. Hmmmmm? How did you come up with that?
What I can't understand is, you have all of this advice for Black people but you are not around any? If the Lord has given you that burden, you might need to move to an inner city area. Matthew 28:19-20.
Diana, I guess I miss understood what your forum was about. I did not meant to be a discussion about your personal life or my. I thought we were discussing the general question of race relations in America. It is your forum. You are free to take it where you wish. Good luck.
Jackclee, it seems you want to direct where it goes. People are free to talk about conservative/liberal as it relates to race. I am neither. Wilderness gave some wonderful examples that show racists views. From the beginning it appeared that you know what Black people should do and expect them to automatically do it. I addressed what I thought what were issues.
It sounds like you might equate conservative with Christianity values and that couldn't be farther from the truth. Examples: Dennis Hastert, Newt Gingrich, Bob Packard, Mark Foley, etc.
I am a Christian independent. My inspiration and guidance comes from the Bible. You put all of your trust in conservatives and you will be disappointed. Same about liberals.
My role model is Jesus Christ.
I hope you are able to find someone who is willing to have the discussion you want to have.
There are times when speaking of statistical averages coupled with race is valid or even important (blacks get sickle cell anemia, whites sunburn). But it deteriorates rapidly when far more important factors are ignored and only skin color is taken into account (blacks love fried chicken and watermelon, whites are racist and hate blacks) such as geographic background, rural vs city, education, etc.
And it falls completely apart, becoming racist, when specific individuals are assigned attributes based solely on skin color as when you expect Diane to discuss political views of "her" community (meaning her race). You are clear that your race is not a factor in what you consider your "community" - how and why then can you think that Diane's is?
This is a major cause of racism in the US - that individual people are lumped into a "community" based solely on race. Until we learn that local interactions and not race are what make a community, that people differ widely in their thoughts and attitudes regardless of race, that race is a minor factor in determining attitudes and behavior, we will continue to have racial tensions in this country.
Some all this the Zimmerman 2.0 case. Should Black youths be shot if they are not in their neighborhoods. http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/11/us/raleig … index.html
Here we go again! Should you shoot on the sidewalk from your closed garage door?
Of course not, COLORADO had a "make my day" law, where the homeowner could resort to lethal force if confronting a prowler on his or her property. You can't use itto stop someone from stealing your pickup truck, or in any case where your life or someone else's in your immediate vicinity is not threatened.
Zimmerman was irresponsible and contributed to the tragedy that was Trayvon Martin. Then there was the case in Texas when a grandfatherly type killed two prowlers, who were running off with his neighbor's television sets. Some sort of Texas Good Neighbor Law, or some such thing. The man called the police saying that there was a burglary in progress. He told them that he was armed with a shotgun and was going to intercede to stop it. I think that it may have been about 7-10 years ago. Anyway, the cops told him to stand down and await for the arrival of a police officer on the scene. But this man seemed anxious to confront the two hispanic men and see just see how effective his new shot gun was against living tissue and bone. He disregarded instructions from the police and confronted the men, both unarmed, shooting them both fatally in the back as they tried to flee. From what I could surmise, he was never in danger but chose to put himself into harms way.
Of course, Texas, being Texas, the man was acquitted as a "Mr Whipple" type, normally not capable of harming a fly. Living in Colorado at the time, I knew that my state had a more evolved and sophisticated viewpoint about these matters. I was confident that this sort of event and outcome could not happen where I lived.
There should be be serious repercussions for anyone involved in using firearms for anything other than defense of human life, and not in cases of crimes against property.
Since this is compared to the Trayvon Martin case, I'm wondering if people are thinking differently now.
Last weekend, Zimmerman reported to the police that he was discussing Trayvon Martin and someone punched him. No one was arrested. I read from a couple of places that he had been bragging. It was a bar/restaurant so I guess there were witnesses.
It really complicates a situation when people are found to be committing a crime. They deserve their day in court; HOWEVER, I can support them when they have done nothing wrong.
I't tell my students that the crime is not worth the potential of losing your life. Avoid all appearances of evil.
Simone Biles tauted as the world's greatest all around gymnast
https://usagym.org/pages/athletes/athle … ?id=164887
Do accomplishments like this help minimize stereotypes of Black people or is she an anomaly?
Diane ,I hope one thing you have learned by now in these forums is that the some opinions are that "The stereotypes of black people " first , are pretty much create BY black people . One more city grows hostile . --part of Milwaukee this morning is in ashes . It seems that only one race in America has grown " out of control ", Why ?
Who wins when a city is on fire ? Why does only one race in America decide that fracturing it's own culture into millions of pieces is the best solution . Families torn apart by crime , drugs , alcoholism , murder , when rioting becomes a family activity - you lose focus on positive change . When broken families are the normal household , there is never a positive outcome in the end ?
Why can't people discuss race in a positive manner ?....So you can ask a hard question now , can you accept a hard answer ?
Because quite frankly , it appears that the destruction of your race is being perpetrated from the inside out , not from the outside in as many , many have implied .
Hi ahorse, I just finished reading about this. It's awful. This is the kind of incident that divides African Americans and those of us who speak against crime and other activities in a city like this are called "Oreos."
The crime that is going on is typical of a community like this. My point is "not all Black people live in communities like this." Last week I brought up the book J D Vance wrote, "Hillbilly Elegy," which is a counterpart to what is going on in impoverished inner city areas. J D Vance is speaking from his experience growing and the resentment of middle class white people who feel that is no one that speaks for them and no laws that protect them.
As I continually repeat, I'm sure you work with black people that don't riot. You possibly live with Black people that don't behave like this. If you notice pundits, political surrogates, and other Black people who hate this type of behavior. When the crime is committed by a Black person(s), the Black race should not be held responsible. Similarly, when a crime is committed by a white person, Dylan Roof, the white race should not be indicted.
If you read the article, a few people on the scene texted people and gather 200 - 800 people. I'm sure the elderly people and children that live in the area did not participate. In addition, there are people that just need a place to live and can't afford to live anywhere else.
I'm angry about it and hope they catch every single person involved and pursue just. I am not out there rioting and I never have. Most Black people with jobs are not out there.
The "good" race/ "bad" race is what fuels racial prejudices.
How did I do ahorse?
I think much of what you say rings true. But, then we can't really have a conversation on race. You have little in common with an inner city thug beyond a possible matching of skin tones.
Someday, we will realize that most of the divide isn't about skin color but more about socioeconomic upbringing.
I disagree with one thing , socio economics isn't the real , the best reason for this violence , for politically divisive rhetoric , for thuggery , for a slanted and divisive - even caustic media , for the apathy and detachment of our leadership , I have known poor people my entire life and they are many of them far, far better people than those who come from the campus' social reformation activists , from the media , from the politically motivated socialism activism .
Poverty alone is NOT an excuse . when in these situational and agenda-ed civil disturbances and low quality job markets , you move , you walk , you run , you take the subway and leave that environment for the betterment of your family .
I didn't suggest poverty was to blame. Maybe we use a different definition for the term socioeconomic.
There you go! Remember also, there are kids that make it out of that environment.
I have spent quite a bit of time, during the day, in the inner city teaching school. I have had students that were in gangs or had relatives in games. I'd like to think I've had some influence on them so that they are making better choices down the line. Teachers, pastors, mentors, the strong inner will, causes young people to make the right choices. If Jack, wants to make a difference, he can. It is not going to be a miraculous, overnight occurence/investment. You have to pour yourselves into these kids. Giving a lecture, turning and leaving is not the answer.
I have a former student get killed last year. It haunts me today.
I have seen book reviews about the Vance's work and his struggle to shake off much of his Appalachian past, I trust that it is an interesting read?
I haven't read it yet. Since I mentioned here, I see the guy doing interviews all over the place. I plan to buy it. It would be nice to have a book club to read and discuss books like this. I guess that wouldn't go over well either.
You do more than fine Diane , In fact ,it IS leadership like yours that will eventually cross a threshold of enlightenment for us all , your heart is good ! Know that . I hold our media completely responsible for almost all public and political divide right now , I believe many people do . It is the condescending and sensationalizing attitude of a lousy and ill mannered immaturity IN the media too !
We all , I know I do , forget that there are extremely reasonable people herein these forums , I tend to be a bit jaded especially BECAUSE of the media for one , the lousy leadership in politics for two , and three because I grew up in white poverty , call me white trash if you will , I am proud however of the reasoned and conscientious upraising my mother provided even in that poverty , she taught us that from a very young age to accept those around us and especially those that we meet in life who are "different " than us for the real human beings that they are . It truly offends me to see the false warring going on .
I am extremely offended by our and my being called racist by some here who dwell in the forums for immature reasons only , at least you have never done that . There are those who don't belong here with a voice or a key -board on all sides of these issues . We could , I believe , easily cure the racial issues in America .
--Personal behavior accountability needs to be re-prioritized in our schools , our churches , our youth groups .
--All of America right now should demand our media be scrutinized for false political agenda and legally punished and lose their licensing for practicing in media if need be .
-Political leadership in inner cities needs drastic accountability standards and oversight .
--Social programs originally designed for the real poor , should be taken from the abusers , and there are many "on the system " too long ..
--Nationally , there needs to be a jobs saving program for keeping lower tech jobs IN America, in the inner cities , in the right neighborhoods .
--Our supreme courts need to focus on a "No pleaing down " of violent crime cases once again . The revolving door of the justice system needs to have the batteries removed .
-- Washington , congress and senate , needs a major changing of the guards by the people voting them out and adopting term limits !
There is far more to do , How we do it is the next question .....:-}
Please do not call yourself a "white" pejorative!!! I never practiced saying that about other people. After I left Arkansas, not before, I realized that "j*p and "inj*n" were negatives. I hope I never have to say for using them. I have been upset and said "s**t" but less as time goes on.
We are all complicated, each individually and wonderfully made. Many don't understand that. I feel Hollywood has had a negative impact on the average person. They have kids out of wedlock, take drugs, go to jail and it usually no big deal. Kids should realize that they don't have the money that the Kardashians or Lindsay Lohan or others.
I took a course in community revitalization and hope to go back to make a difference in my neighborhood. I'm experiencing challenges there with what other people are proposing.
Inner city youth must be taught and shown that having kids at a young age limits their possibilities. BTW, Simone Biles has one heck of a story. Her mother was a drug addict and her grandfather adopted her. She started flipping off the mailbox when she was 6. The gymnastics coach at school saw her imitating her students. the coach thought she was better than the students and the rest is hisotry. She is believed to be the best athlete in the world. Kids need hopes and dreams. They need to be based on their own strengths and then they need others to encourage them.
I'm really ticked on the Milwaukee thing now. Some of those people were looking for a reason to do something crazy. The alderman was speaking about it. I hope they have cameras and will hold people accountable.
False statement's like Trump's perpetuate racism.
“You’re living in poverty,” Trump said. “Your schools are no good. You have no jobs - 58 percent of your youth is unemployed. What the hell do you have to lose?”
1. "You're living in poverty."
According to statistics, 26/27% of Black people are living in party. (You indicates all/inclusive)
2. Your schools are no good.
Stop blaming teachers. There should be community involvement/mandatory participation by parents.
3. You have no jobs!
Statistics state that 8/9% of Blacks are unemployed - 1/7 of the 58% figure Trump quoted. Stastisticians have told him that you don't include kids in high school and college. The high number supports his narrative.
4. What the hell do you have to lose?
His past record shows nothing that he has done to improve Black employment as an employer and he has discriminated as his father did. A bird in the hand may be worth two in a bush.
Who says all Blacks are Democrat???????
Diane: He is pathetic. He thinks by insulting black people that he is going to get their votes. And this is after he changed his campaign people. They have no empathy and if I didn't know better, it looks like they are on a self-destruct course.
The demographic of North Carolina has changed, because there are many High-Tech areas where educated people have moved into of all different colors and races. Most of these people don't buy his B.S.and are turning the state from red to blue.
Peoplepower, it is most interesting to watch the transition of an old time lockstep GOP state like North Carolina evolve from a red herring into a blue swan. It joins the ranks of progressism due to diversity, education. That is why my native Colorado is no longer nothing like the crimson red states that surround it, with the noted exception of New Mexico, which has a high proportionate Hispanic population, who of course, lean Democratic.
North Carolina's burgeoning hi-tech industries require a level of education to operate, not commonly found amongst rightwingers. We keep this up, we are going to get Georgia and Arizona to come away from the 'Dark Side'. The pressure is on, will the Lone Star state be a possibility in coming years?
People, someone has a question up about "Why can't people change their minds after hearing the facts?" From responses, facts are based on individual interpretation.
People will never come together to respect each other if they genuinely have no desire to do so.
With this post you have show one answer to your OP question.
1. "You're living in poverty."
According to statistics, 26/27% of Black people are living in party. (You indicates all/inclusive)
While it is true that only 27% of blacks live in poverty, it is still about twice the rate of the country as a whole. There is thus a large grain of truth here. Trump exaggerates, but you ignore a very pertinent fact.
2. Your schools are no good.
Stop blaming teachers. There should be community involvement/mandatory participation by parents.
But he didn't blame teachers. And there are far too many schools that are both predominately black AND are pathetic. You even say so by by giving some reason it is so. This, too, then has too much truth to ignore, and changing the topic to teachers doesn't change that.
3. You have no jobs!
Statistics state that 8/9% of Blacks are unemployed - 1/7 of the 58% figure Trump quoted. Stastisticians have told him that you don't include kids in high school and college. The high number supports his narrative.
Trumps statement was "You have no jobs - 58 percent of your youth is unemployed.". It isn't true (the proper figure is around 20%) but it is still around double the unemployment rate for youth nationwide - you've once more ignored pertinent information to try and make the statement totally false. And yes, there are statistics for youth, ages 16-24. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/youth.nr0.htm
4. What the hell do you have to lose?
His past record shows nothing that he has done to improve Black employment as an employer and he has discriminated as his father did. A bird in the hand may be worth two in a bush.
If any of his business has hired even a single black person then it has done something to improve black employment. That you might wish him to hire blacks disproportionate to the local demographics does not mean that he is doing nothing and even if you could prove illegal discrimination it still wouldn't mean he does nothing. Another exaggeration, then, because he doesn't do what you would like him to do.
You don't like Trump, you find him to be racist. I get that. But to take his statements and either complain about something else or pretend that there is no truth in them doesn't solve anything. There is some truth (although he exaggerates as badly as you did) and they are points that should be discussed and solutions found for, not simply shoved aside because you don't like the man. It makes discussing race very difficult when you do that.
Even today in our "enlightened" society, many women fear to come forward and report rape and sexual abuse. This is because they don't want to suffer the added humility of having their private life unfairly scrutinized in public, or to be portrayed as someone who was "asking for it". And who would believe the victim who created her own misery? Considering this unfortunate fact of life that predates racism, it serves no good purpose to highlight the spurious notion that in order to minimize the possibility of sexual abuse a woman should dress modestly, or never walk alone at night. First of all, it is nothing less than an outrage to suggest that in a civilized society a potential victim must modify their behavior in order to accommodate the potential perpetrator. Furthermore, it is well known that a majority of sexual abuse is perpetrated by a known assailant, such as a boyfriend, spouse, relative, or casual acquaintance.
Suggesting band-aid solutions is not only demeaning to women, but also serves to perpetuate the problem of sexual violence. And we can see the same evil at work when considering racism in America. Highlighting the obvious as a "smoking gun" serves no other purpose than to further a racist narrative. And that narrative would have us believe that blacks are disproportionately incarcerated, unemployed, and living below the poverty line because of intellectual inferiority, and a general lack of morality and motivation. In the racist mind, these alleged inherent traits are what leads to fatherless families, drug addiction, gang violence, and poverty.
Many white Americans are comfortable with this wonderful fiction because it helps to support their idealistic and racist interpretation of the American Dream. But the truth is not so pleasant to look at.
Read • Comprehend • Learn:
There are three distinct groups here in the United States that have created a perpetual wheel of poverty and crime for blacks living in the inner city. The first group are the white racists who believe it is the destiny of the white race to rule the world. The second, and much larger group, are the white Americans who have, since before the Civil War, suffered from an apathetic "go along to get along" attitude. This is the "We Are The World", "Don't Worry Be Happy"crowd. Last but not least, the third group are the black people who are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. This group consists of those whose minds have been successfully colonized, and who are otherwise known as "Uncle Toms".
The only thing I find remarkable about Donald Trump's brand of racism is that, unlike the "real" politicians, he has expressed more of his true feelings about minorities in public. And so, I will give him an "A" for honesty, but no dinner invitation, and that courtesy extends to you as well.
You forgot the final, largest, group of all - those of all races, whether black, white, hispanic, indian or any other, that wish an end to racism. You would do well to join whatever group appeals to your sense of history and put your efforts into ending it rather than growing it by claiming that any race (in your case, caucasian) is composed of only racists.
The entire world, not only the US, suffers from such racist views and the eagerness to demonize an entire race because of a few is the single largest remaining stumbling block standing before real acceptance of all peoples. Apply yourself and destroy any racism within yourself - you can become a part of the answer rather than a weapon of racism.
I have forgotten no group because there is no other groups responsible for the problems of the inner city. Here you come yet again with your strawman! If the so-called fourth group is against racism, then this group is not part of the problem. Thus, there is no reason to include this group with the other three. But if this is the largest group, as you suggest, then they are also members of the second group. If this imaginary "largest group of all" were not an apathetic majority, then the problem of inner city poverty and violence would not exist now, yesterday, or tomorrow.
And it is quite evident that you and others have vigorously sought to peddle the fiction that I have suggested all whites are racists. I have made it very clear that my views on racism are not formed through some ridiculous notion like Manifest Destiny, but are based on my personal experience, as well as the historical record. When the evil that a man has experienced and endured in his own life corresponds with the evil of the 500 years that preceded him, he can only bear witness to the truth. And this is truth: A majority of the European Invaders and squatters who came here uninvited were either racist, or apathetic toward the plight of the Indigenous and the African slaves. The historical record clearly shows that this racism and apathy has continued with the majority through each successive generation.
There are many examples of this. But one of the most obvious, yet overlooked examples of racism in the United States concerns the internment of Japanese American citizens during World War II. People seldom ask why German Americans were not also placed in the Konzentrationslagers. Prior to World War II, the U.S. had not engaged in a major conflict with Japan. However, the U.S. and Germany had previously fought against each other in World War I. Furthermore, German saboteurs blew up a major munitions depot on Black Tom Island in Jersey City in July 1916. And so we can clearly see that prior to WWII, the Germans had not only killed thousands of U.S. soldiers, but they had also committed acts of terrorism on U.S. soil. And so we must consider the following:
• Hitler was perceived by many to be the greater threat to world peace.
• The Germans had a recent history of violence and aggression against the United States.
• There were far more German Americans living in the U.S. than Japanese Americans.
When we consider these three important facts we can only conclude that German Americans posed a far greater threat to national security than Japanese Americans. But the fact that German Americans were not placed in Konzentrationslagers can only mean one thing. And that one thing is RACISM, because German Americans were also "white people". A majority of Americans have never given this issue a second thought. And that is because the "largest group" you have referred to is actually the second group that I have already identified. This group is defined by it's general apathy toward social issues that do not directly concern them, as well as an addiction to materialism.
Your admonition that I should become part of the "solution" is laughable. Only a fool would seek to appease the cancer that eats at his flesh and can only bring him to ruin. A reasonable man will seek to cut out the cancer, to destroy it, and to render it less than a memory. I am a reasonable man.
In case you didn't know there were interment camps for Germans here in America during WWII. Do some research.
https://www.quora.com/Why-werent-German … ntration-c amps
There is a difference between a citizen of German Ancestery being interned because it is warranted due to suspicious activity on the part of the individual in time of war and just being rounded up solely due to the fact that one was of Japanese Ancestery and was an American citizen....
Of course I know, as I am a student of history. Comparing the internment of Germans here in the U.S. during WWII to the internment of the Japanese is almost as ridiculous as comparing the struggle of the Irish in America to that of the African. During WWII a total of 11,507 Germans were detained in internment camps. 11,000 of those were German Nationals who were stranded here because of the war. That leaves 507 U.S. citizens of German ancestry who were detained! But in sharp contrast, between 110,000 and 120,000 Japanese were forcibly interned in the camps. 62% of those detained were United States citizens. This disparity can only be attributed to racism, as the German American population far outnumbered the Japanese Americans.
As at war in any time there is a need to identify the enemy within before you set to vanquish it from without. Political correctness be damned as the first easily recognizable evidence of them is their appearance. Does this overstep the Constitution and personal rights. Absolutely! But is a time of war and danger and it is prudent to exercise caution and act. Short or martial law where everyone's rights are suspended the search for the enemy within is more expedient and effective if the obvious suspicions are allayed for the time being. To have it any other way would invoke a "Humane and Logical" action during a war crisis which is an oxymoron considering the ravages and atrocities of war. To allow obvious suspicious character unbridled freedom to move about at a time of war is ridiculous and yes this is based on the one common characteristic the guilty and innocent posses, their appearance or language.
Racism? I think if we look at the definition of racism -prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior- we might decide that the answer is somewhat different.
I think it is probably more attributable to the fact that those of German ancestry had been in this country for over one hundred years and Germany was a neighboring country of many other people's ancestors so they were familiar with many things about them. The more you know about someone else the less fear you feel and the more you believe you can judge how they will act.
Japan was so reclusive it had an official policy of isolation from Europe for over two hundred years before the US forced trade relation less than one hundred years before the attack on Pearl Harbor. Japanese did not begin to immigrate into this country in any numbers to speak of until about 40 years before Pearl Harbor was attacked.
Racism is a belief that one's own race is superior, not fear and fear was what motivated American policy. I think the fear of the Japanese during the war came from the fact that the citizens had barely been here for more than one generation so there was reason to believe that the immigrants could still have strong ties to a nation which attacked us, unprovoked, without first declaring hostilities.
Was internment a bad decision? In retrospect we can say yes but, I'll be honest. I do sometimes wonder when people complain about American policy during the war if they bother to look at what drove it. Considering the actions of Japan in the nations they over ran I would think we would understand why our government would do everything in its power, even going overboard at that time, to ensure that they had done everything they could to protect the American people from Japanese invasion. I suppose you may think it would be better to have sat back, hoped for the best, and accepted that if the best had not been the outcome the pillow girls and slaves created when they got here could rest easy knowing that everyone had just sat back and hoped for the best.
I notice that Japan has never compensated any of our POW's for the forced slave labor in the factories. We, at the least, didn't turn these virtual prisoners into slave laborers and we did compensate survivors years after the fact.
When a man carelessly burns down a forest to create farm land, without first considering the creatures that may dwell in said forest, it can be understood that such a man feels superior to any creatures that may live therein. Otherwise, his need for food or material gain would not outweigh the needs of the creatures his selfish actions have displaced, and rendered homeless. Yes, we can understand that a man might fear a snake or a bear, and rightly so. But having participated in the highest form of science by becoming the subject, and living as a human being for many years, I can confirm that under such circumstances it is a feeling of entitlement and superiority that predominates over all else.
It is the same when we consider the racist actions of the U.S. government during WWII. They had as much, if not more to fear from the Germans. However, it can only be seen as a sense of superiority that motivated a government to imprison U.S. citizens primarily based on race, as opposed to just cause. And it was also a sense of superiority that allowed a majority of white Americans to accept this outrage, and crime against humanity, as a necessary evil. In their warped "Ozzie and Harriet" sense of reality, since they considered themselves superior, their personal safety superseded the rights of an inferior race. But since the greater German population was of the same superior race, many believed it was worth the risk to allow a majority of German Americans to remain free and unsupervised. The presence of fear, and unfamiliarity, do not necessarily mitigate, or eliminate racism as the root cause in this matter.
I would say, "What?!" But then you'd post another weirdly and tortuously contorted attempt to overlook any factor standing in the way of your race to a racist verdict.
So, I'll simply say Hmm.
L to L with all humility, Wrench is correct in his assessment of the issue. There can be no excuse for the taking life, liberty and property without due process. The Nazis were identified by Roosevelt as the greater threat over that posed by Japan in 1941. I speak of Nisei, AMERICAN citizens, not foreign nationals. Their rights were sacrosanct. There was no reason to treat them differently, there is no rationale or excuse for racism, period. That was the true nature of the order issued to do this dastardly thing. We are talking about citizens not combatants or enemy aliens. The atrocities committed by Japan and Nazi Germany are irrelevant when I see how AMERICAN citizens were treated in this arbitrary way within our 'arsenal of democracy'.
I disagree. War is hell for everyone involved. As I said, in retrospect we can all agree that it was a bad decision. But it was not one clearly defined 'racist'by the definition of racism. It was not done because of a dealing of superiority. It was done out of fear. Anyway, is Japanese a race or a nationality? A racist move might have been to incarcerate all people of Asian descent?
Part of the concept of racism as practiced is taking liberties with the rights of affected groups, such rights the controlling group would never consider taking from any of their members. "You have rights until we are afraid." That man that was shot while sitting and unarmed a month ago. What was the explanation from the officer that fired the weapon? 'I don't know why I fired'. I guess that Mongoloid is one of the 3 primary racial groups of man, while Japanese could be considered a nationality. It is funny when I read and I find no instance of treason by japanese American who distinguished themselves in battle as AMERICAN soldiers within the European Theatre of the war. Yet, there was quite a stir leading to a hanging or two regarding 5th columnist Germans involved in espionage in 1942.
I have seen photographs of the German-AMERICAN bund meetings during the 1930s. They attracted thousands and marched around with swastica flags and admiration and support for Chancellor Hitler. This reached the point where attention from the FBI was warranted. I never saw any of this from Japanese-Americans in response to Japan's aggression in Asia. Under those circumstances, would I be more suspicious of citizens of Japanese or German origin?
Pearl Harbor was 2500 miles from the U.S. Pacific Coast, not exactly across the street, especially in 1941. This true, while German submarine, wolf-packs were known to be prowling the AMERICAN eastern seaboard and had been spotted on more than one occasion. Under those circumstance, which national origin of citizenry would you be more concerned about?
The fear that you speak of is just an offshoot of racism. As it is another race or ethnicity, it it easier to justify an imposition on them, one that would turn the Constitution on its head, if anglos had to face identical treatment.
This thread is devoted to an attempt to under race related issues from a variety of perspectives. My point is that racism is always more subtle than having a KKK fellow burning a cross on my lawn. Racism in action means the affected race is always given the short end of the stick. They are to receive less and are expected to want and deserve less.
I'm not saying what was done was right but that given the time and circumstances it was understandable. And of course there was support for Hitler's ideology in America. Of course there were subs patrolling our eastern border. Germany didn't attack without warning and without a previous declaration of hostilities.
It's easy to think that no one considered doing that to Germans because they were white. But, I simply think some are too quick to stop thinking when they have the word 'racist' to fall back on. They are too quick to condemn when the word racist has already rolled across their lips too many times.
Considering the times they lived in, considering events throughout the world, all things factored in; I'm afraid I see chalking this up to racism as very simplistic.
Fear and hatred will cause otherwise reasonable people to do strange things. Witness the cold blooded murder of cops innocent of any wrongdoing just because of the uniform they wear.
LTL is correct - there was nothing racist about incarcerating all of (recent) Japanese descent.
Thus the difference between our perceptions of what racism is.
Witness the murder of unarmed citizens by police.
There is a difference between official representatives of our society in regards to law enforcement and the activity of criminal elements for which I am not paying their salaries. Seems a simple enough concept to me, I really wonder what others can contribute to this discussion.
We are not talking about crimes by thugs, but the official policy of the United States Government toward AMERICAN citizens justified based on fear and the underlying factor that no one wants to admit, racism.
The officials of our Government should not be a party to fear and hatred. All of you would not be so forgiving if it had happened to you, now would you? The Nisei deserved every penny of restitution and more.
I agree that restitution was fair. Wouldn't it be nice if Japan could follow suit with the hundreds of thousands they forced into slave labor during the war. What's your stand on that? Probably not racist of them, in your opinion.
L to L, first of all Japan was a totalitarian dictatorship, I have every right to hold AMERICA to a higher standard.
Second, the slave labor camps came under war crimes. The Axis powers and their ring leaders were tried for such crimes, imprisoned and hanged in ample numbers for them.
What does any of that have to do with what AMERICA did to its own citizens without provocation?
What you are speaking of is comparing apples to hand grenades.
Seriously? So people hurt in one way can expect less sympathy and restitution than people hurt in another. One way is acceptable. That's interesting.
Live are you saying slaves' families should get that 40 acres and a mule they were promised?
Could you direct me to information on that? I would say yes, initially, but would like more information.
But, 40 acres plus a mule. That would now have to be shared between all descendents of a slave. Not everyone get the equivalent.
I follow your point Japan, has been slow to officially take responsibility for its barbaric behavior during the war. Is restitution warrented? Probably.
But does any of this absolve the US Government of its travesty of justice? Stealing the rights of the Nisei is more than just the 'fortunes of war'. I am surprised how many are unable to see this. Donald Trump has taken the view that it was ok at the time to incarcerate a portion of the American population without due process. Yep, it all ties in.
Credence and Live, I'm reading your discussion and being enlightened. I didn't like history but don't remember any of this about Japan. I think the difference is that I was born to close in time to this. Thus it was not history but current events..
I'm not commenting because I don't know enough. I'm sorry.
I love history, it's my calling. It allows me to discern the difference between gnat droppings and pepper.
Surely, Diane you are not that aloof to these basic concepts of right and wrong. You are not so much outside the age brackets of the participants of this discussion. None of us were alive during the Second World War but were born within 10 years after. You started this thread not to pussyfoot around with niceties but to have candid discussions. You have more experience in direct confrontations with the principles of the things I am trying to explain. Where is your backbone? You have to know something about history to explain to so many of those that don't get the facts as WE have experienced them. How about some help?
I seriously do not remember studying any of this in high school. I graduated in 1968 from Central High (the one President Eisenhower facilitated integration of in 1957).
I do remember a class - 10th grade history in which we studied the neanderthal, cro magnon and homo sapien?
I was enrolled in a cappella choir and business classes.
I remember studying about the different wars but none nearly in the depth you guys discussed.
It could have been the trauma of being in class with white students. Until that time, I in all Black schools.
The conversation is piecemeal because they are all interwoven. I did not expect this as part of race discussion. I'm speaking based on my experience and the philosophy I have developed.
I do think you guys need to define rather you are speaking of race or ethnic group or sexual orientation if that's what you're talking about. Then everyone is on the same page.
Didnot mean to spook you, Diane. When you open a Pandora's box like this, you're not going to find ice cream sundaes.
A graduate of Little Rock central High, your story and acheivement could warrant documentation. A compelling piece of history just 10 years before you graduated. If Earnest Green were part of this discussion, he would say not to go easy on people that need to be educated if they seriously want to understand.There is so much that you can share to shake all the misconceptions out there regarding this topic and how and why most of US see things the way we do.
I was part of the forced bussing thing of the early seventies, trauma because of white folks? Never heard of it.
Race issues are by their nature convoluted. The principles involve for discussion are the same mechanisms used for sexism. Don't you need a broad base of general knowledge even to qualify as a teacher?
Much of my background is similar to yours, but you faced additional challenges that are above and beyond my own. Interweave your experiences and philosophy to correct wrong headed ideas from the few, and explain how in your experience why they are wrong.
Race and ethnic group identification is just a red herring by some that want to convolute the issue and its topic rather than acknowledge the possibility that their assessments are incorrect. Some refer to blacks as an ethnic group, others as a race. Either way you were still designated to sit on the back of the bus. Why ignore the principle involved playing semantic games?
"spook" Who me? I don't get spooked.
About two hours ago I was following a perfectly good train of thought to put here. I got side-tracked a couple of times and lost my train of thought. I came back to read what I had and couldn't finish it. After I regroup, I will post with coherence.
I think race is important from that stand point of loving all people. Color blind is not good because that is ignoring reality. We have cultural difference that we all need to learn about to appreciate why people who they are and do what they do. Physical differences are goo to explore in order to know the differences in the way our hair reacts to water, why sunburn has a more negative reaction in white people than Black people (and dna can cause a mixed impact), etc.
Sounds to me as if you are attempting to turn pepper into rat droppings with this argument.
Events within the entire world at the time equated to a travesty of justice. Had the US during peace time chosen to detain thousands of people of a specific ancestry just because they could...that would be a conversation.
As it stands that is the problem I find with liberals. Everything is black and white to them. Life is, consistently, shades of gray. Failure to take all factors into account makes discussion difficult.
What if it happened to you, would you be Accomodating? Accepting shades of gray is fine when it is to your advantage or convenience. Just don't be the on the receiving end of that race based concern.
This tells me about the mindset of the conservative, I am learning a great deal.
Also, L to L, I thought that I would include this excerpt fro a Wikipedia article. It might support my argument, but Conservs might call Wikipedia a leftist reference source?
The internment of Japanese Americans in the United States during World War II was the forced relocation and incarceration in camps in the interior of the country of between 110,000 and 120,000[2] people of Japanese ancestry who had lived on the Pacific coast. Sixty-two percent of the internees were United States citizens.[3][4] These actions were ordered by President Franklin D. Roosevelt shortly after Imperial Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor.[5]
Incarceration was applied unequally due to differing population concentrations and, more importantly, state and regional politics: more than 110,000 Japanese Americans, nearly all who lived on the West Coast, were forced into interior camps, but in Hawaii, where the 150,000-plus Japanese Americans comprised over one-third of the population, 1,200 to 1,800 were interned.[6] The internment is considered to have resulted more from racism than from any security risk posed by Japanese Americans.[7][8]
Honestly, if there was a reason to feel that my incarceration was necessary in order to secure the safety of millions I would probably attempt to look at it pragmatically. It's like racial profiling at airports. It is not acceptable. Which I find odd. What types of people have committed the most acts of terror recently? If I was of middle eastern descent I'd expect to be looked at in a different manner than someone of Swiss descent. Now, if there were no terror attacks at all, that would not make any sense.
Everyone has repeatedly said that the decision of the US government to send the Japanese Americans to interment camps was an unfortunate decision. All anyone is attempting to make you see is that is was not racist. It was targeted at people from a specific country which had already proven itself to be unconcerned about killing innocent civilians. Now, we can look at the dynamics of the areas they came from and see why some might have pushed for the policy to be put into place. Some claim it was economics. They present valid data to support this. Some claim it was fear of Japanese because of the world war. That is reasonable. Some say it was simply racial prejudice. I find that one hard to swallow because, as has been pointed out to you, it was targeted only at people of Japanese descent. Not all people of Asian descent.
There was plenty of racist law in the West at that time toward the Asian community. I can easily agree with you on the charge of racism where most of these laws are concerned. I simply don't think you have a leg to stand on with your current argument.
LTL; You wrote:
"I find that one hard to swallow because, as has been pointed out to you, it was targeted only at people of Japanese descent. Not all people of Asian descent."
That's your definition of race. Here is the dictionary definition of race:
"A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution"
P.S. This is also for you Wilderness: Your definition is for "Ethnic", not Race,..nice try but that dog don't hunt, as they say in your neck of the woods.
Can't imagine where you found your dictionary.
race 1 (rās)
n.
1. A group of people identified as distinct from other groups because of supposed physical or genetic traits shared by the group. Most biologists and anthropologists do not recognize race as a biologically valid classification, in part because there is more genetic variation within groups than between them.
"The traditional definition of race and ethnicity is related to biological and sociological factors respectively. Race refers to a person's physical characteristics, such as bone structure and skin, hair, or eye color. Ethnicity, however, refers to cultural factors, including nationality, regional culture, ancestry, and language."
eth·nic
[ˈeTHnik]
ADJECTIVE
of or relating to a population subgroup (within a larger or dominant national or cultural group) with a common national or cultural tradition:
Race is a function of biology: ethnicity is a function of culture or nationality. In 65 years I've never heard once of the "race" of Americans, Germans, or other nationality. The dog hunts just fine.
Wilderness: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/race
"Race refers to a person's physical characteristics, such as bone structure and skin, hair, or eye color. Ethnicity, however, refers to cultural factors, including nationality, regional culture, ancestry, and language."
It appears the dog is still in the woods doing what it was intended to do.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internm … _Americans
Do me a favor and take the time to read this encloypedic account of the event? Are you of the same mind? These sorts of things and your sort of perceptions are at the heart as to why racial animus persists among us. When has all this 'precautionary security" ever apply to white folks?
Racism is not an acceptable interpretation of 'shade of gray'.
Racial Profiling is a lazy excuse for poor police work, race and ethnicity is only a factor among many others which should have greater weight when you decide to accost or inconvenience someone in the name of security. Another difference between progressives and conservatives. Looked at differently crosses the line when you can accost, detain and arrest a woman as a suspected terrorist only because she wears a burka?
As for the racism, what do you get from the article? I hope that either you or Wilderness can give due credence to scholarly articles, even though it interferes with the conservative world view. Many of the points that you make in your second paragraph are found in the article.
Japanese people have been the subject of racial prejudice in the United States, this not some sort of odd anomaly. For those that are not Anglo, there is no surprise as to the motives for this and every other indignity visited upon non whites as part of AMERICAN History.
While you admit to plenty of racist laws against the Asian community, this relocation thing is different?
How is that possible, or even probable?
I'll read your article but I'll say that it is different simply because of fear of invasion by that particular nation.
And I have been inconvenienced. I've been grossly and intimately searched at airports because of what we are attempting to ensure doesn't happen in our airways.
As a woman, whose sex has been subjugated, relegated to second class citizen status, denied fair wages and equal opportunity I'll have to say it always amazes me when someone says because I'm white i wouldn't understand discrimination.
As a woman, I would suspect that you would know how these things actually work in real time. Thanks for checking out the article, I think that you will find it quite informative. You KNOW how those in opposition to women's rights always downplay the nature, depth and breath of the problem. Wilderness is one thing, but was expecting a little more from you.
OK. As long as we are being honest, I didn't expect a lot more from you on this point. I have noticed that we do infrequently reach an impasse from what I perceive as your jaded outlook.
I'm trying to inject some humor today, and history.
* http://investmentwatchblog.com/a-list-o … bama-lies/
I read it you racist!
Seriously, I do remember my father supporting Republicans. After I read the chronology I thought back to the 50s. I do remember that George Wallace and Orval Faubus (our "curseword" governor) were true racists to the bone.
After reading the chronology I did a little more, not much, research. Republicans were most outside the south and the Democrats were in the south. I also have other thoughts on inclusion of rights for people that are not based on race or women being included).
I believe it, I have read little about them because they aren't interesting reading material. I am more interested in how history is being made today, which to me is the most exciting time to be alive. I look forward to a great shaking and awakening.
I hope that will be a blessing rather than a curse!
Just to point out, 'white folks' is about as racist a term as any other. Precautionary security as you put it has not applied to black folks. It has not applied to hispanic folks. It has not applied to any folks. Other than what was done during WWII to people who came, or were descended, from a nation that we were at war with. It was wrong. Everyone agrees to that.
Also, to point out. White folks as you put it have been just as crappy to white folks as others. Black folks have been just as crappy to black folks, as others. I suppose any color you chose to slap a label on for a person you will find that that color is pretty color blind when it comes to thinking up reasons to commit atrocities.
Get over yourself. Black folks (and I use this term only because it appears to be your preferred way of describing people) got a raw deal for part of the history of this country. I suppose we will all have to sit around and listen to people complain that the past is somehow an impediment to their present for many centuries to come.
You men folks need to put on your big girl panties is all I can say.
Alright,you have made your point, you find me extreme. I find it extreme for anyone who has looked at history of Japanese-AMERICAN existence in the U.S to deny the rank influence of racism in the relocation matter. I not talking about big boy pants. We are not going to solve race problems when we look at the same events, yet come to markedly different conclusions.
Maybe Wrench deserves more credit than he gets for 'seeing the big picture'. Continued political activity and agitation is necessary if we can't find common points of understanding to move forward.
If we can't even arrive at a commonly accepted definition of racism,looking at the same examples, then race will remain a contentious issue for all us for the foreseeable future.
I don't think that there is anything insulting about referring to people as 'folks'.
I don't think anyone has come to different conclusions. The only thing anyone was pointing out was that the term racist was extreme. It was wrong. It was a travesty of justice. I simply think if every Asian in America had been interred we could use that term. Other than that we were in agreement that Americans should not have had to endure that.
I find wrenchbiscuit's rants to be racist to the extreme. If you give him credit for anything other than being an impediment I'll say that is more of an impasse than the interment disagreement.
I don't know. I've always wondered why people call themselves African Americans. How many countries do African Americans trace their ancestry to? What other race does this? I don't. But I don't put any emphasis or stock in it I suppose since I'm just an American mutt. I know some who call themselves Italian American. Third and fourth generation. Although I find that silly they are identifying with a country. Not a continent of diverse and unique people. Any Asian American I know considers themselves some country American, not an entire continent.
I guess my point is if you look at it one way you are right but you, yourself, identify as black so you are identifying with physical characteristics not nationality and complaining that others do the same. It's a little confusing.
And there is nothing wrong with using the word folks. But you are lumping a skin tone into one as if that skin tone is one. All alike, all privileged, all completely oblivious to any suffering because that skin tone never suffers, never has to deal with any adversity. They are all white, so special.
Most people who come to this country have a choice. Slaves didn't have a choice. There ancestry and heritage stops at the minute the slaves ships departed from their ports to their destinations. After that is was a mixture of white slaves owners intermixing with slaves. For those people, they can trace part of their heritage and ancestry to those white folks. That's why they are called African American.
If a black person looks at their heritage on Ancestry.com. One side will stop at the borders of America. The other side might continue on to Europe or other countries. I am first generation Italian and so is my wife. We can trace our heritage all the way back to Europe.
African African? It's a good question. The term comes from the immediate end of the post civil rights era, say 1968. Like the dashikis and Afro-hair dos, it was source of pride of person for a people who desparate ly needed it. We were shown in America as a people without an origin or meaningful contribution, having just fell from the sky in American cultural norms. The term is a political creation, most of us are centuries removed from Africa and our cultural bonds have since disappeared. Negro was considered a derogatory term. I have no problem with black or even, colored.
I have seen the term ASIAN American used.
Consider it just another adjective to describe the person.
Yes, I am Black and my nationality is American. Race may be an Inaccurate construct, there is only a remote physical resemblence between Africans and AMERICAN blacks. Simply, too much time has passed, it is really the only common point.
I am confused, what are you confused about?
As for the skin tone, when statistics involving race are involved do we not delineate between black and white? The culture, dominated by whites, had been adversarial toward people of color in my view. The issue is institutional and systemic, and cannot be pinned on any specific individual.
When I look at those statistics in virtually every meaningful statistic in regards to life in America that compares based on race and ethnicity ON AVERAGE, your group or people/folks are special. When some of those disparities are reduced or eliminated, maybe then we could can have a meeting of the minds.
I have often ask why everyone seems to be a hypen-American other than white people. Before African American it was Afro American? Who is deciding what we will be and then changing it.
There was a time when Negro was not a derogatory time. During that time, the Negro National Anthem was written. I was going to teach it and told students were were going to sing the Negro National Anthem. Some kids were ticked and planned to tell administrators. I Googled it to show the students I was calling it by the correct name.
I saw the evolution from Negro to colored to Black to Afro American to African American.
People here before European settlers are called Native Americans.
Mexican Americans, Latin Americans, etc.
wikipedia gives a chronology of hyphenated Americans. In the past, it was considered derogatory. To me it says, "You are not a true American. You are a ____________ American." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyphenated_American
Damn. Here I thought I was just your average struggling American working class business owner. I didn't know I was special. I sure hope I get to take advantage of all that special before I die because I haven't seen any of it yet. But, since you think I'm special I guess I must be.
The government (federal, state and local) violates the 5th, 13th and 14th Amendments.
I hoped that a black president would have remedied those constitutional violations, but he hasn't. I believe its racist by design. You bet I think it is with explicit racial laws, policies, and regulations.
* http://www.epi.org/publication/the-raci … al-insult/
Colorful,, This artical is EXCELLENT! This is an expansion of the themes I talk about all the time.
They can't make the schools perfect enough! The external factors overwhelm the situation.
Parents, crime, etc., are the real issues.
If you think it was justified I'd have to disagree with you, for it very much was not. Japanese citizens, surely - American citizens, most certainly not barring a few very recent immigrants.
So not justified, just understandable. It isn't hard to find the roots of the interment; the Japanese communities did not assimilate well. They retained as much of their culture as possible, including language. The refused as much of OUR culture as possible. The lived in large communities in which no one else was really welcome. And at the tail end of it they were easy to spot visually. So very little of actual racism here, outside of being able to find and, in the fear climate of the time, raise emotions. Not of inferiority, but of deadly danger (although hindsight gives a clear lie to that danger).
Not everything is about race - witness the "racial" profiling by some southern sheriffs in their search for illegal aliens. That is clearly about illegals, not race, but the cry of racism is heard far and wide even when there isn't any. Only a desire to keep illegals out of the country. And in a similar vein it wasn't about race that was behind the interment; it was about fear of a very specific nationality. Chinatown's didn't disappear, Koreans weren't jailed - just the ex-members of one country that was attacking ours.
The Constitution and Bill of Rights must apply equally to everyone, and not be dismissed for certain groups because it is inconvenient to others. We just reduce it to just a scrap of paper. I hear you about the assimilation and apparant clannish ness. Such is the nature of their culture, who has the right to penalize them for it? The U.S. Government should not have allowed itself to give in to fear and irrational hysteria. It is unacceptable.
You're right, not everything is about race, but it was about race this time....
I don't understand how it can be "fear" because fear is false evidence appearing real. Do you mean that the government has created a "irrational hysteria" through fear mongering? I'm trying to understand, maybe I have a block.
Ok, I meant that the Government should not do unconstitutional things based on the unjustied fear and hysteria of others. The Govt. gave in to irrational hysteria, that was the problem.
No, the government should not do unconstitutional things. I'm straining to see how they do that out of "unjustied fear and hysteria" of others though. They must get a pay-off of comfort, power and pleasure for their service of violations at the expense of others. Its such a racket playing with the big money.
A racist policy on the part of the Government justifies incarcerating people based solely on their Japanese ancestry, the fact that they were AMERICAN citizens who committed no crime. It was a race based hysteria, with no basis in fact or reality. Neither German or Italian Americans were subject to such indignity.
You do understand that "Japanese" is not a race? Any more than "American", "German" or "Italian" is?
I trust you recognize the contradiction in your statements here? It is about assimilation and clannishness. It is about fear and irrational hysteria. And the next sentence says it is about race, even though the majority of that specific race was left untouched.
So, what is the contradiction?
The problem is that none of them should have been touched.
So, why did they not just pluck out the German and Italian Americans and leave the rest of the Anglos alone?
And yet...no race was singled out for interment. You claim it was, but that is not true. I even pointed out that most of the race was untouched, yet you still claim it was all about racism. Better check your dictionary again.
You are equivocating, wilderness. Call it an ethnic group, then, so are blacks and Hispanics. How does that change this issue, people were still being discriminated against based on race, color, ethnicity, there is no foundation that justifies that? I dislike conservatives because they are so obtuse about what is clearly obvious. It is no wonder that our differences are practically impossible to breach. Is there a difference in discriminating against an ethnic group and a race? Because it is a member of a racial group and not the entire racial group, it is not racism? That is ludicrous.
You dodged my inquiry about Germans and Italians, what is your sage explanation for the difference in that case?
"I dislike conservatives because they are so obtuse about what is clearly obvious."
You are saying I'm obtuse? As you also say the Japanese were discriminated against because they are of the oriental race while the rest of the race was left alone? It's like claiming racial discrimination when gays or muslims are discriminated against! When gays are refused an apartment lease or a store product because they're gay is it a racial thing? When muslims are refused permission to build a mosque is it racially motivated? When we deport illegal aliens is it a racial matter? Or course not, any more than Japanese being interred because they were from a country we were at war with is.
eth·nic
[ˈeTHnik]
ADJECTIVE
of or relating to a population subgroup (within a larger or dominant national or cultural group) with a common [b]national[/i] or cultural tradition:
Yes, it was very much ethnic discrimination, but not racial by any stretch of the word. It was wrong, it was discrimination and it should not have happened, but it was NOT racial discrimination. Even if you were foolishly claiming the Japanese are a different race from any other oriental country it still would not have been about race. The roots were vastly different and the solutions to differing forms of discrimination are different as well. You are providing one answer to the OP; it's really tough to discuss racism when any form of discrimination is declared to be racially motivated.
And no, I didn't dodge anything. Germans and Italians were not interred because they assimilated so much better - being a part of the existing culture and having been in the country for much longer they did not raise the fears the Japanese did. Germans and Italians were among the very first immigrants to the country and that made a huge difference. That should have been clear - in fact, you indicated you understood and agreed as to the difference.
"And that one thing is RACISM, because German Americans were also "white people"."
And with that single statement you make my point very well. Thank you.
Wilderness and Wrench, I missed something. Did someone say racism is limited to a specific ethnic group. I certainly disagree with that!
Wrench has long maintained that all whites are racists, and ONLY whites. No other race can be racist for some reason. It seems to stem from Columbus - he was European (white) and therefore all whites in the world are racists.
I strongly suggest that you stick to the truth. Here we see that you continue to peddle what is clearly an outright fiction. As I have made clear in many other posts, and as I have already explained in this thread, I have never suggested that all whites are racist. I have maintained that the historical record clearly shows that a majority of whites have either been racist or indifferent to the plight of the African and the Indigenous. You and many others here would do well to take some remedial courses in reading comprehension. Majority does not mean "all".
Concerning the second half of your comment. I maintain that It is not possible for a minority to express racism against an oppressive majority. Yes, a minority individual is capable of feeling superior, but such feelings when separated from a system of racist oppression cannot have the same effect as such feelings that are directed from the perspective of the majority. It is the same difference between a man with a loaded gun and a man who is shooting blanks. In order to realize racism, we must not only have the personal "feeling" or the motivation, but we must also have the real world application. Read and learn.
Sorry, but I've followed your rants and tirades over the months, and have watched as there haven't been more than a handful that don't complain that "whites", not a particular group such as the KKK, are racist. The only conclusion possible is that all whites are considered racist and you are more than willing to express that racist view in print. Your posts are as racist as any I see on these forums and vastly more so than than the large majority. A good example is the declaration here that those of German ancestory were not all interred in WWII because whites are racist.
While you may wish to change the definition of racism, no one is interested in your personal definition. It may support your own posts and opinions, but that's about all it does.
My so-called rants notwithstanding, you cannot show one comment that I have made on any post where I have stated,as you have falsely accused, that "all whites are racist". That is the issue at hand. It is not a matter of interpretation, it is simply a matter of you creating a fiction in an effort to demean my character. I have no problem with someone who disagrees with my outlook. But since you cannot refute my position in an intelligent manner, you resort to slander instead.
What troubles many politically correct illegal aliens is that I do not have a colonized mind. The historical record shows that good white men have been few and far between. This is not my opinion, but simply a matter of fact. John Brown was a righteous white man, but we all know how he was rewarded for doing the right thing. More recently, Daniel and Philip Berrigan, Ed Snowden, and Chelsea Manning also joined the ranks of "the good white people" and they were also thrown under the bus. Apparently, it is illegal for white people to stop acting like white people. Many white people simply can't deal with the truth. For instance: It is ironic that many will suggest that inner city blacks living in poverty need to "accept responsibility". Yet, we can see a double standard at play here. The white racist refuses to accept that their forefathers are responsible for creating the situation in the first place. And since this is an historical fact, it is the progeny of a squatter nation who bear the greater responsibility for correcting the problems associated with racism, not the Indigenous, nor the African. In a court of law, a judge does not order the victim to help the perpetrator to pay restitution! That would be absurd. Read and learn, then apply this special wisdom to your own life.
"All whites are racist" is a conclusion based on dozens or hundreds of posts indicating whites are racist. Not a single one I can remember ever limited it to anything but "whites". A reasonable conclusion, then, although I'm sure there is at least one (yourself) that you don't consider racist, and it is reinforced by the quaint and foolish idea that only caucasians can be racist.
Do you know what an illegal alien is? As in a citizen of a foreign country that is in a second country illegally. As it was not illegal for Europeans to be in any of the areas of the western hemisphere, they were not illegal aliens.
How odd that the only good white men just happen to all be criminals. Says something about your viewpoint of whites, doesn't it?
If you want reparations paid to the descendants of black slaves, shouldn't you be going after the ones that sold them to slavers in the first place? As in other blacks in Africa? Certainly none of MY ancestors, for at least a couple of thousand years, kept any slaves, so you can leave me out of it. Although I'm not responsible for what my father, grandfather or any other ancestor did anyway.
Sorry, no one squatted on any land in the original settlements. They were all invited, or bought the land as they did for Manhattan.
If it's the problem of the nation (and it is) then it is also the problem of Indians and Blacks to end racism. As we can't order the perpetrators of the beginning of slavery to pay, we'll just all have to cover the cost. Including peoples of all racists. Read and learn, then apply this special wisdom to your own life: it is a matter of all peoples everywhere to end racism, not just the white race.
This has nothing to do with conclusions based on previous posts. This has to do with the fact that you told a lie on someone. And that someone is me. You said in no uncertain terms that I had previously commented that all whites are racist. The fact that I did not, and the fact that you now attempt to back-pedal and suggest that my previous posts "led you to that conclusion" only further illustrates that you knew you were lying. I suggest you save yourself some embarrassment and learn how to properly use the English language.
For instance, you could have said : "wrenchBiscuits previous posts have led me to believe that he feels all whites are racist". This is how an intelligent person would construct the comment. This way you are expressing an opinion without telling a lie.Word: What you "feel" someone is saying does not translate to what that someone has actually said. If the utterance is never made then you cannot say that it was spoken. This is elementary, and I find it fascinating that I need to explain the obvious to an adult white male. The proper thing for you to do is to apologize for telling a lie, and to make sure you never do it again.
And you know nothing of history. The white man was not "invited" to steal anything on our continent. That includes 20 million acres in the southern United States. The miscreant Andrew Jackson forcibly relocated the 5 Civilized Tribes to points west of the Mississippi after the "Indian Removal Act of 1830" in order to make way for white settlement. Thousands died on what has become known as "The Trail of Tears". And when people are forcibly relocated it means that they must leave their property and most of their possessions behind, and basically start from scratch in a strange place. And what did the good white folks do after the land was stolen? Of course, they erected churches,started praising Jesus, and then imported more African slaves. And so, this also illustrates the truth of my assertion that most whites have always been either indifferent or racist. Yet you and other uneducated people here have attempted to paint me racist for simply telling the truth!
Concerning the criminality of the great white heroes I have mentioned: Daniel and Philip Berrigan,Chelsea Manning, Ed Snowden, and John Brown . Of course an evil system is going to label them as criminals, as they have come to destroy the evil heart of America. Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King were also treated as criminals. It is interesting to note that the average American will honor rapists, pedophiles, and murderers like Washington, Jefferson, and Columbus, but they will consider true patriots and humanitarians like these I have mentioned to be criminals. Whether you believe in the Christian Bible or not, even a secular person can understand that it is an evil hand that rules the world. If a man truly stands against the evil in this world, he will surely be vilified, or even crucified. Thus, your hateful words have only placed me in good company. And that is the company that I will continue to keep.
For everyone here ,One does not have to say . "Hey you there , You are a no good , son - of - a - B.........,..............[color noted here] "
In order to actually BE a racist though and far be this knowledge from leftists like so many on these forums , . If you print it out , implied it , lied about it or otherwise explain in the secret language of the written rants , then you are a racist ! A racist , for the small of mind , can be of any color of skin , of any size of minority or of a majority . it always causes me to shake my head at this obvious stupidity when , as being part of a vast majority to be called or implied a racist , when the actual person making the accusation is more often than not the real offender .
I have seen racists and bigots in the BLM parades , in the Gay parades , in the brown skinned reservations of the west, in the media ,in women's gathering and in men's ,I have seen them in the government and not for the first time either , We are seeing it in the White House too!. and I have seen them in my family and in YOURS as Racists are everywhere , in the streets , in the offices , in the ivory towers of intellectual elitism . In todays world , a racist is simply someone who opens his mouth , generally and never closes it just to keep the candle of racism burning .
In one way or another --everybody who enters into these forums is a racist .
Be not proud or pained , racism flows in ALL our bloodstreams. I dare you to prove me wrong.
In order to actually BE a racist though and far be this knowledge from leftists like so many on these forums , . If you print it out , implied it , lied about it or otherwise explain in the secret language of the written rants , then you are a racist ! A racist , for the small of mind , can be of any color of skin , of any size of minority or of a majority . it always causes me to shake my head at this obvious stupidity when , as being part of a vast majority to be called or implied a racist , when the actual person making the accusation is more often than not the real offender
Response
."The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
It is impossible to rectify a situation if you can't speak about it. Intent is really what is necessary. When the intent is there, compassion should be used in discussion. I am very offended by the things Donald Trump is saying. White people, with conciliatory intent, may not understand why I am offended but will listen to my issues, with the intent of understanding.
Trump
“And I say it with such a deep felt feeling, what do you have to lose? I’ll straighten it out. I’ll bring jobs back, We’ll bring spirit back. I’ll get rid of the crime, so you’ll be able to walk down the street without getting shot. Right now, you walk down the street, you get shot."
"Look at how much African American communities are suffering from Democratic control. To those I say the following: What do you have to lose by trying something new like Trump? What do you have to lose?" he asked. "You live in your poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs, 58 percent of your youth is unemployed. What the hell do you have to lose?"
a. He refused 3 invitations from NAACP to speak at their convention
b. He refused to speak at the Hispanic Journalists convention
c. He speaks about Black people, not to them, in front of a white audience
d. "African American communities" - I've discussed "what makes us a community?"
Those of us that are integrated into neighborhoods outside inner city have
different living conditions
e. I'll bring jobs back - an inner city issue/not Black/why not go to inner city to
address issues
f. "We'll bring spirit back." Slave owners thought slaves were happy working for nothing
being beaten, and eating leftover body parts of animals
g. I'll get rid of crime? Conversation should be had with inner cities
h. What do you have to lose? I say, "What do we have to gain?"
i. Right now you walk down the streets and get shot????? Who does? the African
American community? people in the inner city?
Those who don't understand I invite to probe to see where Black people are coming from. Kayleigh McEnanny gets on my nerves with her smug looks and cat crap grins and uninformed defense of what Trump is saying. I'm not supporting Hillary so don't go there.
I have seen racists and bigots in the BLM parades , in the Gay parades , in the brown skinned reservations of the west, in the media ,in women's gathering and in men's ,I have seen them in the government and not for the first time either , We are seeing it in the White House too!. and I have seen them in my family and in YOURS as Racists are everywhere , in the streets , in the offices , in the ivory towers of intellectual elitism . In todays world , a racist is simply someone who opens his mouth , generally and never closes it just to keep the candle of racism burning .
In one way or another --everybody who enters into these forums is a racist .
Be not proud or pained , racism flows in ALL our bloodstreams. I dare you to prove me wrong.
Response,
ahorse, again, I think you are frustrated! You have your point of view. Hang in there! Discuss it! Communication is the beginning of understand. You can understand and disagree but at least try to understand!
Diane Trotter please see the post I've attached this reply to. Pretty good example of why people can't discuss race in a productive manner. Weird racist views keep getting interjected. Makes me think of the quote 'you can't fight stupid.'
I made comments! Thank you for valuing (I assume) my opinion!
I do value your opinion. I read your post and was impressed. If more could approach the problems we have with that spirit I believe we could conquer them.
What troubles many politically correct illegal aliens is that I do not have a colonized mind. The historical record shows that good white men have been few and far between. This is not my opinion, but simply a matter of fact.
My response
From my experience, the white people who spoke up and were active were really brave. There were many white people who were afraid to speak up. As you alluded, they feared for their lives. From my Ancestry research, I found that many slave owners, ironically, did not believe in slavery.
John Brown was a righteous white man, but we all know how he was rewarded for doing the right thing. More recently, Daniel and Philip Berrigan, Ed Snowden, and Chelsea Manning also joined the ranks of "the good white people" and they were also thrown under the bus. Apparently, it is illegal for white people to stop acting like white people. Many white people simply can't deal with the truth. For instance: It is ironic that many will suggest that inner city blacks living in poverty need to "accept responsibility".
My response
I think there is a certain amount of responsibility, based on my experience, that parents should have. Unfortunately, kids become parents and perpetuate a cycle of poverty. That is a crucial problem. I've told students that those cute babies will need parenting until they are 18 and beyond. The slaves were mated to produce more children and then the children were sold off or traded. That does not happen now.
Yet, we can see a double standard at play here. The white racist refuses to accept that their forefathers are responsible for creating the situation in the first place. And since this is an historical fact, it is the progeny of a squatter nation who bear the greater responsibility for correcting the problems associated with racism, not the Indigenous, nor the African. In a court of law, a judge does not order the victim to help the perpetrator to pay restitution! That would be absurd. Read and learn, then apply this special wisdom to your own life.
My response
My outlook is based on my profession of faith as a Christian. The slave owners/traders have died. Our ancestors who suffered tremendously have died. They would have wanted us to have better, prosperous lives and I'm sure would be proud of those of us who have accomplished so much. I ask God to forgive me daily. He won't forgive me if I don't forgive others. I don't want to be held responsible for the crimes of other Black people. I can't hold white people responsible for what their ancestors did; HOWEVER,
all of us, all races, have the moral responsibility to treat others the way we want to be treated. It's good to bring up the past to put everything in perspective. White people can't empathize with our journey because they have not walked in our shoes. We have not walked in theirs. Ultimately, I would like for us to be compassionate, understanding and forgiving.
I have retired. I don't need any programs. I'm sure I will experience racism more before I die but not the level of discrimination I have experienced over my life. These Scriptures help me keep life's troubles in perspective:
Romans 5:3-5
3 And not only this, but [c]we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; 4 and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; 5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Romans 8:28
28 And we know that [k]God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
I don't want to be held responsible for the crimes of other Black people. I can't hold white people responsible for what their ancestors did; HOWEVER,
all of us, all races, have the moral responsibility to treat others the way we want to be treated.
Very well said, and you've covered an awful lot in just these few words. The final sentence, particularly, is something that so many people set aside and so conveniently forget when it comes to their treatment of others.
Thank you Wilderness! You didn't get upset because I brought God into it. Thanks again! My motivation is strengthening my relationship with God. I can do that by loving all people.
I needed to get back with you on this. You. asked me what I would do about women that keep having babies to increase their social services payouts.
The whole idea of welfare is that it is to temporary with work or preparation to get a job first and foremost. That should apply to anyone considered otherwise able bodied. There should be a trade-off of public benefits offsetting wages earned in a reasonable proportion. Those that insist on being irresponsible will face the prospect of having their children removed to social services as they are unfit parents not able to provide for their material needs. Where that line needs to drawn, I don't know. But it needs to be drawn, all the same.
I agree, although the proliferation of disabilities will toss a good sized monkey wrench into "able bodied".
But putting kids into the social services system...that's a hard pill to take. Much of the time a pill worse than the disease - kids don't come out of the system of foster care very well and we would be ruining tens of thousands of lives. Whether they would be worse off with a parent that refuses to put any effort into supporting them is another question.
But yes, welfare - ALL forms of welfare from food stamps to earned income credit to free school lunches - should be temporary (an exception for Obamacare as it is a govt. mandated purchase that half the nation cannot pay for). It just doesn't work that way as it was never intended to be temporary and there are far too many loopholes anyway.
Assuming your trade-off is a gradual loss of benefits as wages increase, yes. A reasonable one, not what we now have which removes benefits faster than salaries increase, resulting in a loss of incentive to improve and increased poverty as skills and income increase. Stupid in the extreme, but that's what we currently have.
I pretty much concur with your point of view here....
LOL I doubt it, for the devil is in the details. When a person has worked for years at minimum wage, getting help for their 3 kids, will you stop that help?
When a person is going to college (on our dime) will you require them to work 40 hours per week as well, or simply give them all the living expenses they need as well as tuition, fees, books, etc.? I did it, and my son did it, so it CAN be done - are you willing to force others to do it or starve?
Will you stop welfare, putting kids in foster care and the parent(s) on the streets to sleep, without food or good clothing?
Putting an end to the rape of our charity system will hurt a lot of people, over half of them helpless, innocent children. Are you willing to force that hurt so that there will BE a social net in the future? Or when kids die - dead and buried - as parents move around faster than you can catch them rather than give them into the system, will you back off and care for the entire family or will you stick to your guns?
At some point the assist has to end, the person will have had ample time to make the appropriate adjustments otherwise how does the program end by forcing people back to work?
I give them the assistance they need up to a certain amount over a specific period of time. Outside you extrordinary, super people, it is extremely difficult to work full time and go to school. Like I said before, my idea of what constititutes help is different when compared to yours. I approve of this free or low cost go to college plank in the Democrat's platform.
I have no choice as to the destination of people who refuse to work and will not cooperate with programs that assist in making them productive and self sufficient members of society. But I am willing to be more patient and provide more options than conservatives.
Minor children will always have options, regardless of the choices of their parents. As Diane says, social services is not desirable if it can be avoided. However, parents that do not provide for the material needs of minors in their charge are no better.
Ultimately, I cannot help a lazy person. I will do whatever I can to provide for those that are willing to put forth effort, more than you in your conservative ideological stance would be willing to do. But at the end of the day for ablebodied adults, it comes down to " those that don't work, don't eat"
Those are hard questions; HOWEVER, it is an investment to pay for education of those getting a college degree.
There are loan forgiveness programs are available for teachers and those that go into fields where there is a shortage like Government intelligence. It's kind of scary accumulated the loans but my loan for teaching was forgiven over a 5 year period.
The real annoying situation is the woman who can't take care of one child and continues to have more. These days, many seem to get "engaged" an have kids but never get married. I suppose the advantage is that they don't have to get a divorce. This does not mean that all women fall into the baby trip.
How is it an investment (for the country as a whole) to pay for a college education for anyone? We already have more college degrees out there than we can put to work, so what additional value to the country is there in producing more?
I understand that Uncle Sam very often supplies subsidies in various forms to get people to do what it wants them to. While I don't have a real objection to that, I would rather we simply pay for the things we want rather than hide the bookkeeping so it is much harder to find out what we are actually paying or paying for. When we forgive loans, or provide tax breaks, maybe for a business hiring in the inner city, we never seem to know just what the cost of that teacher or employee is. The information is there of course, but no one ever seems to collate it and put it all together to get the bottom line.
Perhaps it can be compared to educational reimbursement; but ed reimb is actually considered a benefit.
The teacher loan forgiveness was/is done for a) field with not enough teachers (math, science) and b) inner city school where most teachers do not want to work.
I was harrassed for 5 years and given bad evaluations supposedly because all I did in choir was play the piano and have kids sing. I was written up for not using popsicle sticks at the door, not walking around the room to manage the classroom, not giving a lecture on Beyonce and JZ so kids could take notes, and not showing student how to use Cornell Notes. It was a bunch of BS and I rebutted every complaint. The real deal was they wanted to cut salaries. My salary was hire because I had worked for years and was good at what I did.
Three weeks ago I received a letter stating that there was a teacher shortage and they want me to come to work as a long term sub at less than half of my salary before I retired. I quickly threw the letter in the trash. Now they will get a new, inexperienced teacher at less than half the pay or have another retired teacher come in at less than half the pay.
The student loans actually compare to grants. That expenditure is not borne by the District but by the Federal Government. I'm sure they have copious records...I guess! Ultimately you Taxpayer Wilderness pay for it.
Would you prefer to pay for food stamps and welfare checks???
And turning kids over to social services is a terrible prospect also. There are so many kids in the system already that are either not placed or placed with people that abuse them.
Even with social services monitoring, there are tragic consequences for the kids. http://theavtimes.com/2016/04/07/four-s … oys-death/ I look at this boy's face and am sad. Social workers were fired; however, it's too late for Gabriel. He is dead.
Like you, I don't know what the answer is. A friend of mine started a GoFundMe account because her nephew's baby is on life support. The mother was arrested and I think the baby has shaken baby syndrome.
We didn't create the problem but the child abuse/neglect problems are real and serious.
I hear you, Diane, but from what you say the mothers are not necessarily any better.
I'm from Arkansas. I just received this post. You are so right, some parents are not better. It is sooo complicated but "Trump, personally, plans to fix everything!"
Just received
Children in foster care in Arkansas reaches all-time high
The number of children in foster care has reached an all-time high in Arkansas, straining state officials who have long referred to the growth as a crisis.
But the state has reversed a trend of losing foster families every quarter, according to reports prepared by the Division of Children and Family Services.
"We're all feeling a little bit of the strain of the number of people in foster care, and we're glad that we're making progress, but as much progress as we've made, we have more children in care now," said Lauri Currier, executive director of The Call, a nonprofit organization that mobilizes Christian families to foster or adopt children who are in the care of the division.
From March 2015 to March 2016, the total number of available and in-use beds in foster homes increased from 2,801 to 3,306, but the number of foster children also increased, from 4,178 to 4,791, according to the latest quarterly report. In addition to moving in with foster families, children may be placed in group homes or with relatives on a provisional basis, and some receive acute placements, which can involve clinical care.
Since March, according to Mischa Martin, director of the Division of Children and Family Services, the number of foster children has continued to climb. There were about 5,030 children in foster care last week. The all-time high, reached earlier this month, was about 5,050.
When Martin became director on July 8, there were 4,983 children in foster care. She said at the time that the state had never had more than 5,000 children in the system.
Substance abuse by heads of households outpaces neglect as reasons for why children enter foster care, according to the division's latest report. About 56 percent of children enter foster care because of substance abuse by their caregivers, though the report notes that many children enter the system for more than one reason.
Martin said partnering with outside groups such as The Call is key in her strategy for managing the treatment of children in the state's care.
"We've really collaborated with our partners to help them increase the number of foster homes we have," Martin said. "We're trying to streamline the [foster bed] opening process, increase communication with our partners, and work through some technical issues that we've had in the past to make sure we've got the most homes open."
Finding foster families
Of the about 1,500 foster families in Arkansas, Currier said, her organization is responsible for about 600 of those families and is training another 250 families.
She watches the division's reports carefully.
"There was a net gain of 44 foster families over the quarter, and I can remember a day -- in the not-so-distant past -- that there were negative five. It was that way for several years in a row," Currier said. "As dire as it seems that we have all these kids in care and only 1,500 homes to care for them, I can remember a day when we had 1,000 homes, and so we are making progress."
From December 2013 through March 2015, the number of foster families dropped every quarter -- from 1,248 families to 1,168.
But the number rebounded over the past year. At the end of March this year, there were 1,478 foster families, according to the most recent report.
A child welfare case begins when a report of possible child abuse or neglect is made to the Child Abuse Hotline. Cases are investigated by the Division of Children and Family Services or, in more serious cases, the Crimes Against Children Division of the Arkansas State Police.
If the division feels that a child is not safe at any time, the child can be removed for up to 72 hours without court approval. If the report is found to be true, a child can be removed and placed in foster care, left in the home with an open protective services case or voluntary services put in place, or left with no case open or services put in place.
If a child is removed from the home, a judge must decide whether the state can continue to have custody and where the child should live.
From there, an adjudication hearing is held to decide whether the child was abused or neglected.
If found to be so, a disposition hearing is held to allow a judge to decide whether it is better for the child to be in the custody of the division or someone else.
A review hearing must be held at least every six months to ensure that everyone is following court orders.
Finally, a permanency planning hearing is held to decide the permanent placement of the child. Children can be returned to their parents, their guardianship can be given to another adult or parental rights can be terminated, allowing a child to be adopted.
The typical child stays in Arkansas' foster care system between six months and 12 months.
A changing process
Currier said Martin has made her job of finding foster families easier by streamlining the process.
Amy Webb, a spokesman for the Department of Human Services, said potential foster families are now referred to a home study after their first training sessions, not at the end of the process. The home study explores applicants' social and family histories, current family makeup and support systems to see whether they are able to serve children.
She said the division is tracking families better, so it knows where they are in the process of becoming foster families. Potential foster parents will soon be able to receive paperwork electronically, if they wish. The state's www.fosterarkansas.org is getting a revamp.
The division is also now meeting monthly with organizations such as The Call, Christians for Kids and Arkansas Baptists that recruit families for the division, Webb said.
Currier said her organization aims to be a bridge between the church and the state. The Call doesn't take custody of children, but provides training to would-be foster parents -- which can take the place of state-run instruction. It also helps with paperwork; organizes donations of clothing, food and gift cards; and provides a network of support.
"A lot of times, we mean the same thing, but we don't speak the same language. So The Call speaks church -- whatever that is -- and we develop relationships. We talk about it from a Christian perspective, what it means to be a foster parent, what it means to be an adoptive parent," Currier said. "Then, we take that and we help those families by speaking the government language."
Increasing the number of foster homes is key to solving ongoing issues in the division, officials have testified during legislative meetings. The division's staff members juggle twice the casework load as their out-of-state peers and transport children across the state when foster homes aren't locally available.
Children have slept in division offices at times when no foster homes were available.
State Rep. David Meeks, R-Conway, serves on the Governor's Child Welfare Oversight Panel, adopted three boys, has an open foster home and went through The Call's training program.
He said the oversight panel is looking into the Safe Families program, used by other states, which allows parents to voluntarily surrender their children while they receive treatment for substance abuse, anger management, effective parenting or other issues.
"The children are not actually brought into the foster care system, and the parents do get the help they need," he said.
Meeks said he expected the panel to issue its full set of recommendations in the coming weeks -- well in advance of the regular legislative session that begins in January.
Martin said her division is continuing to hold "war room" meetings with other parts of the Department of Human Services to see how they can assist her division.
"That's focused on bringing our other sister divisions in to figure out how they can help with the foster care crisis, looking at substance abuse treatment, looking at preventative services," she said. "We're just really looking how we can support our caseworkers and families better by making this a DHS problem, not a DCFS problem."
This exercise in understanding may well turn out futile. Black and white perspectives are so different to the point that we can look at the same objects and we each define them as having a starkly different color. You mentioned that it may well be impossible for either of our groups to appreciate the shoes walked in by the other. It is just like the concept of matter/energy transport, it may well be possible but not anytime soon.
What seems obvious to me, when speaking to them about, you would think that they just got here from Mars. But, perhaps my point of view from their perspective would support the idea that I just dropped in from Venus.
I never had the luxury of being conciliatory with my adversaries regarding my existence and survival, I am glad that it has worked for you.
Can you share with me what you are expecting? Race relations didn't turn bad over time. They were bad from the beginning. One conversation won't change it. All people won't come to the same conclusion.
I woke up to the conversation with the horse pic this morning and read it. I then went to make my breakfast, reflecting on what I had read. By the time I sat down to respond, what I intended to say had evolved from my first reaction when I read the comments.
My hope is for people to communicate and understand another perspective, rather we agree or not. In the beginning of my career, white people would say, "You're different from the rest of them." I was hearing, "You are not a bad person. The rest of them are." I didn't feel it was a badge off pride but at least we were able to work together and communicate. They went from thinking the company hired me to observing that I was quite capable and competent. One by one, as other Black people were hired, they were viewed as "different from the rest of them" also.
Just like I hadn't spent time around white people, they hadn't spent time around Black people. Some decided they didn't like me, personally, and I decided I didn't like some of them. It was not based on race (on my part) but on backbiting, gossip, laziness, etc.
To me, the main thing is a) to be heard and b) to be respected. Sometimes you make friends. I think you and I were at odds a couple of months ago. Look at where we are.
What are your expectations?
Yes, Diane, we were at odds over an entirely different topic: religion.
Theonly thing I really see is that we (blacks and whites) share little if any common reference points. The fact that people approach you in a way as if you represented the entire ethnic group is irritating in itself. It is rude and derogatory, but what surprises me is that they don't see it as such. The white cultural norm is the norm and you are always the anomaly.
Where do they get their perceptions about 'the rest of them'? When do you stop being 'different from the others' as an explanation as to why more blacks were hired? Never crossed their minds that it is possible that the people hired were always 'the others'.
It wasn't a horse but a burro or donkey. Certain traits has been associated with those mammals and they are not necessarily complimentary.
It is the way people think and assumptions they reveal at the very starting gate.
I was confused when you first posted here because I thought you were white.
What we need to get to is the fact that we are all different. Every single one of us is uniquely and individually made. Different is not necessarily bad or good. It is just different.
Interesting, what gave you the idea that I was anglo?
Wasn't it you talking about all of the different languages and various interpretations of the Bible? I assumed, obviously erronenously, that taking time to study all those languages was something a white person would have done. I don't know if that was a compliment or an insult and I'm the one who said it!! To make sure I adequately cover my bases, "I'm sorry!" and "You are welcome!"
I started to try to explain but I'll quit while I'm ahead ... if I really am ahead. If I am behind, I really need to shut up!!!
I am flattered but it wasn't me that was versed on all of the languages, I think that It was a young woman, if I recall.
Oh? Regardless, I still thought it! I thought I was the only one that was Black.
It's Not A Matter of Forgiveness
If the evil would have ended at the end of the Civil War, or even at Wounded Knee, then I might be in a forgiving mood. But the evil of colonialism has continued unto this very day. And the black race cannot accept responsibility for this evil. Nor can the Indigenous people. Only the European is responsible. But as you can see, there are many here who do not want the name of the perpetrator spoken.
Many white men do not want to accept responsibility for the past, but they have only made fools of themselves. They will say "It wasn't me. I didn't do it!" But they are perpetrating a great evil even in the present. Prior to Black Lives Matter, there was no "white" organization making a fuss about the disproportionate number of black people being murdered by the police. And it is quite ironic that it is popular for racists to suggest that inner city blacks are not motivated, and are fond of living on the dole. Yet, when a group like BLM does get motivated and organizes, then the same racists will turn around and accuse the organization of being violent, and racist. The point is: Minorities are not supposed to defy or question the white majority. They are supposed to politely wait until the white majority decides to act, if at all. Furthermore, a great majority of whites continue to live on stolen lands. And since you have studied the teachings of Jesus you will understand that the passage of time does not turn a wrong into a right. The Christian thing to do is to return the stolen land. Otherwise, we can only understand that a great majority of white Christian Americans are hypocrites, as there is no way around it.
Jesus said in Matthew 19: 16-24
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”
20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
Here you can replace "rich man" with "white American". According to Jesus there will be very few white Americans in heaven, and Jesus is just alright with me.
You truly suffer from delusional visions there Wrench , Better do a little less peyote , How convenient to quote the bible and God's word and hate the white race so too , I wouldn't have thought that amount of hypocrisy possible . Your obvious hated of all things "white " actually qualifies you as the ultimate racist !
Congratulations.
You can't fight ignorance. Some people want to hate and wouldn't be happy without it.
"Furthermore, a great majority of whites continue to live on stolen lands."
Interesting comment. Where do you think blacks live? Hispanics? Orientals? Indians far from their reservations OR tribal homelands? Is that stolen land too, or do only whites steal land?
But I also question that "large majority" thing - my g'grandparents homesteaded, ironically, only 50 miles from where I live. There was exactly one person living the the valley they chose for a home, on the far side of the valley. Most settlers were like that - they did not settle near Indian communities, let alone in one and certainly did not steal the land Indians lived on. They didn't steal land Indians cultivated or used for animal husbandry. They didn't build a home where Indians had their commercial or mining activities.
Only where there were no signs of habitation or use, except, sometimes, for others of their own culture. I think you rather grossly overuse the term "steal" while at the same time forgetting that every Indian tribe existing since the 1500's "stole" the land from previous owners.
Wilderness: Excuse me. Europeans are the ones who came up with the idea of land ownership. Indians didn't have land ownership. They had tribes that use to war against each other. If you were one of the first Europeans to set foot on this land chances are pretty good that you were on Indian land. That's why they are called indigenous people. They were the first to habitat the land. Yes, we stole it from them by conquering them.
You cannot have ..." Indians didn't believe in land ownership ....." AND " ...........whites stole it from them............ " Therein lies the stupidity of the accusation of land theft . , we all now live on smaller pieces of land , is all you can deduce from such moronic nonsense !
I like the part where he says they didn't own land and then that they had warring tribes. I wonder if he ever wondered what they were warring over. Hunting rights, fishing rights, stuff like that. The usual stuff that goes with land ownership and arguments over who owns what.
The whole issue is such utter nonsense , where whites in the long run , probably saved the native tribes from certain obliteration by other tribes . inter tribal rape , tribal kidnapping , incest , ..............gees ...you name the offense and it was pretty prevalent . It wasn't all snow flake Pocahontas lovers on the riverbank that many here would have all first graders believe !
ahorseback and wilderness: The word "probably" is pure conjecture. You have no proof. Here is an extract right out of the history book "Lesson of our Land."
"In general, Europeans conceived of land as personal property to be used for the realization of economic and material needs and wants. Thus, land that was not actively being “improved” for agriculture, homesteads, industry or resource extraction was considered available for someone to claim and use for his or her personal benefit. Land was also closely related to class and social structure in Europe. Land afforded a certain degree of economic security and social status to landowners, both of which were important in economically and socially stratified countries in Europe.
When European immigrants began to settle in America, these ideas concerning land and its use prompted settlers to encroach upon Indian lands. While American Indians did not share this conception of land ownership, this encroachment threatened the livelihoods and very existence of tribal peoples. American Indians did not think of land as something which could be "owned." There were "rights" to land and the gifts from that land. If these "rights" were violated, it amounted to a declaration of war among tribes because access to land was closely linked to a tribe's survival."
Now who is speaking "utter nonsense?' You people need to be educated in so many ways. And yes, we stole the land from the Indians, in the name of Manifest Destiny." We essentially made refugees out the ones that survived by placing them on reservations. That's the part of history, you don't want to hear and accept. I'll betcha you guys are two good ol' boy rednecks who love "amurica."
Thank you for participating People! I love for people to support what they say. I'm following you!
Had any of you ever really read those history books , you would have learned that all through out the history of mans travels , he has warred , conquered , expanded his travels and explored again , He has also assimilated to the conquerors , he has changed his own culture to accept the will of the victors , name the war of governments , of the religions ; the warriors , The defeated assimilated to the victors , or at least to the greater masses .
America didn't just happen by dreams or by native "visions , it was carved from the raw wilds of the forest ,out of the stone granite ridges , it was built by hand ! AND It is time ! It is time for the indigenous to assimilate ! For the cultures to assimilate . If they cannot and wish to survive in the shadows of the past , to blame their bitter uninvolved and self inflicted poverty , drug addictions and alcoholism on everybody else but themselves , then so be it !
Then natives , or whoever , will continue to "sit in their own stink " , while the vast majority of a major melting pot of Americans DO assimilate !
I feel no compassion for a people who refuse to engage in reality ,who let their children suffer in todays America , BY CHOICE ! And , the cost of that decision is to be always paid by the children .
That decision is the same with ANY minority who refuses to engage in America's progress .
ahorseback: Why don't you go live on a reservation and tell me what is like? Today, many Indians have casinos. They may have lost battles, but now they are taking white man's money. Many have pulled themselves up by their bootstraps. I agree with you as to why wars are waged. And it is exactly to protect territory and/or gain new territory, in the name of some higher spirit, and to spread the gene pool. I wrote a hub about it.
Would you have expected settlers to agree with, or even recognize the differences in land ownership? Of a culture nearly 100% foreign to them? They had the answer already - no one owned it - would you expect them to question that evaluation when it was so obviously correct, and question it to the point that they could no longer live themselves?
Again, interesting. Indians didn't own land, but Europeans took Indian land. I trust you understand the dichotomy here?
And no, the tribes living in the 1700's were NOT the first ones there. Other's preceded them by some 10,000 years and, just as you say, fought amongst each other, "taking" and occupying what once belonged to others. That they all carried the blood of Asians is insufficient to say that one tribe didn't take what belonged to another.
It is also interesting that, somehow, Indians "owned" all the land in the Western Hemisphere. Whether they lived on it or not, used or even ever walked that land, they "owned" it. By that reasoning Africans owned the entire world and the Indians "stole" the western hemisphere from them.
Thank you People!
I have to give a testimony right here. For the first time in my adult life, my credit cards are all paid. I have retirement accounts that I don't have to touch because my teacher's retirement and disability come out to more than I would earn if I were working.
After I left Hughes Aircraft because I wanted to help kids, my money started getting funny. I had to use credit cards to pay mortgage, my car kept breaking down, etc. At one point I owed $23,000 in credit cards. In January this year I was down to $17000. Today I will pay the balance of $8750 which is only possible through the grace of God.
I have not received reparations but I have received a spirit of discernment and forgiveness. Bitterness will make you ill. It is often impossible for use to have someone ask for our forgiveness, especially when they feel they have done nothing wrong.
Genesis 50:20 "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives."
Joseph's brothers sold him to the Egyptians. The deed was awful but Joseph was able to save the lives of many during the drought. He was a wise leader. He did not hate his brothers for what they did.
God rewards faithfulness and obedience.
Hallelujah!
I watched a documentary a while back and they had an old Spanish map of the U.S. A large percentage of the western portion was labeled Aztec ancestral land. It appears the Aztecs used to live all the way up in to the northwest here in America. I wondered if the 'native americans' probably pushed them off the land before the European settlers came and did the same.
Either "native Americans" or another migration from Asia. Or some even suggest the middle east. Or tribes moving West just as the European settlers did.
It is inconceivable that a civilizaiton, whether hunter gatherer or more advanced, existed as a single "country" for the 10,000 years prior to European invasion.
But it's so much more fun to simply blame the white guy.
Well, yes. The majority are evil land thieves, after all. Because they built a life on empty land, just as those long ago did when they crossed the Bering Strait.
"empty land" is interesting.
Was land considered to "not belong to anyone" if it were empty. There are people now that have acres and acres of land. If there is nothing on it, is it acceptable for someone to take the land?
Nearly all land not "owned" by government is improved in some method. It may have crops, it may have livestock, it may have a road or it may have a cabin, but there is almost always some form of improvement.
Plus, of course, we can now just ask if it is owned and get an answer. When the settlers came west they went for miles and miles without seeing anyone at all - who would they ask?
Wilderness: The savage Indians that attacked them.
Which were nowhere to be found. Except for those that either sold the land (manhattan like) or welcomed neighbors - neighbors that then owned the land they were given.
Don't forget that it took many years before Indians figured out the European version of ownership and took exception to it. Only then (for the most part) did it turn violent.
Your apologist rhetoric is astounding. You would have us believe that these squatters arrived on the East Coast and then miraculously found themselves standing in an open prairie somewhere west of the Mississippi. Long before the abomination of Jamestown, and since the arrival of Columbus, the Europeans knew this continent was inhabited. But the ones who came were greedy and lazy, and they were inebriated at the thought of getting "free land"; land that they would not have to work and pay for.
They were too shiftless to make it in the Old World. It is another great lie that the good Europeans came here to escape religious persecution. They came to escape the responsibility of having to work for a living, and to pay their own way. They did not come for religious freedom, but for the freedom to rape,plunder, and steal. Of course they understood that they might have to kill some of my people in order to get it, but greed can embolden even a coward.
LOL. Do you make this crap up as you go because that is about the most ridiculous post you've come up with thus far. I suppose facts don't need to stand in the way of a good scape goat story.
No, unlike many respondents here, I have been a student of history since I was a child, as I had the benefit of two parents who had the good sense to take me to the public library, and to teach me what they knew I wouldn't be taught in the public school system. And so it appears you have a lot of catching up to do. The best and the brightest Europeans stayed in Europa. They were successful in their own countries. They didn't need to come here to murder and steal in order to survive. Nor were they so evil, lazy, and greedy that they needed to own slaves.
So your parents indoctrinated you with their beliefs.
Got it.
No. They taught me how to think for myself, and how to seek the truth through study and research. They taught me the difference between good and evil, and the deceptive ways of a racist system. Thankfully, they prevented the public school system from colonizing my mind with lies and omissions about America and my heritage. What kind of a father or mother would neglect to warn their child about a rabid dog?
As a professional musician it has always troubled me to see minorities singing the Star Spangled Banner at sporting events and other functions.It reveals that the minds of these people have been completely colonized, and that they had very little guidance as a child. In order for the average white American to understand what I mean, they must imagine a Jew publicly singing a Nazi anthem. But it is really not a good comparison, because the Nazis only oppressed the Jews for less than ten years, and they only killed 6 million. When we consider that the Europeans killed over 100 million of my people, and also killed and enslaved millions of Africans, we understand that it is even worse for an African or Indigenous to sing songs that glorify America.Yes, it is far worse than an Orthodox Jew glorifying the Nazis. It is another good example of Stockholm Syndrome.
My parents gave me access to all the information I could ever want and would discuss, if questions came up, but always sought not to imprint their beliefs on any of their children. I've always had the utmost respect for that. More so now that I see how deeply a parent can damage a child for life with their prejudiced firmly embedded in their upbringing.
My parents were probably trying to save our lives OR they may not have known a lot about slavery themselves. When I was a child, Black people could not go to the white libraries. The one Black library was about the size of a 2 bedroom house
WB has to be younger than me or didn't live in the Jim Crow South. Embarassing but true - the most I learned about slavery in Little Rock was as a result of Black activism, NAACP, Urban League, etc.
We've come a long way. I remember going into the drug store as a child and being confused why they wanted to wait on me ahead of an elderly woman. I refused to go first and they got mad. When I got older I realized it was because she was black. My parents made no differentiation in their establishment or in our home so I was oblivious. Although I was aware that many leaders in the white community disliked us quite intensely.
I remember Jane Nemec, a white girl in my homeroom, who went out of her way to smile at me and try to make me feel at ease in homeroom. She would speak. It was obvious to me that she was not a racist and wanted me to know that she was different.
I sure hope others who are reading will add to the discussion.
The Truth About Uncle Tonto and Uncle Tom
Well, you keep on believing that nonsense. I am not surprised that anyone who supports Manifest Destiny would not hesitate to insult my Mother and Father. There is a great difference between prejudice and racism, and knowing who your enemies are. And I can't imagine any white American would expect a Jew to honor Nazi traditions, yet they expect us to honor the traditions of a people who have raped, murdered, dispossessed, and disenfranchised our people for over 500 years; far longer than the Jews suffered under the Nazis. And that is what the white American cannot seem to understand. I do not have to be prejudiced or racist in order to respect myself and my heritage. Nor does my refusal to embrace my oppressors and join their "club" indicate racism or prejudice either. It appears you are confused about the issue. As a professional, unless a group is overtly racist, I do not discriminate when it comes to who I work for. I often do shows where all I play is Country Music for a room full of rednecks. And guess what? When I sing Country I sound just like a redneck! I often laugh to myself when people come up and compliment me on my performance. Sometimes I feel like I am living out a version of the Mel Brooks Movie "Blazing Saddles".
Of course, I don't do any of the patriotic songs in my performances, and no one ever asks me to. However, I have been asked many times to sing the Hank Williams song "Kaw-lija" many times, but I refuse to sing such a derogatory song, as it would be the equivalent of wearing black face. You see, with racism comes oppression. How I feel is not oppressing anyone. I am not preventing anyone from getting a job, or doing anything they want to do. I am not trying to prevent white people from doing anything at all, other than to stop expecting me to betray my ancestors and be the Indigenous equivalent of an Uncle Tom. In fact I believe I am the first to coin the term : "Uncle Tonto". And so, if you ever hear that term in the future, you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you had the privilege of conversing with the author of the term.
You must understand that assimilation is the last phase of a system of genocide. There are many of us here who are not about to let that happen. If white America wants to assimilate, then let them assimilate with us. Let them embrace the true history of America, and then change the name; let them embrace our way of thinking, and our traditions; let them tear down the grotesque monuments of evil and replace them with monuments of peace; let them erase their own cultural identity.
Just so we understand each other, how I feel isn't oppressing anyone either. But, how I feel is not oppressing me. There's the difference in our philosophies.
It is not uncommon for the arrogant European to believe that his way is the best way. This is why Manifest Destiny is such a popular flavor among the good white folks. In the perverse mind, Manifest Destiny mitigates murder,sadism, pedophilia, kidnapping, and thievery. All of these were key components of the antebellum, and the genocide of my people. I am as happy as a prisoner of war could possibly be. Furthermore, happiness is for children. The "pursuit of happiness" that the squatters have championed and cultivated in the minds of the weak is one of the greatest and most insidious tools of oppression. Mandela and many others forsake the pursuit of personal happiness for the greater good of mankind.
They did not, and have not lived their lives as cowards. Yes, my life was easier and less stressful when I concerned my self with satisfying my carnal desires, and when I spent my time engaged in trivial pursuits, but today I have more self-respect, and I know that I will not die a coward ; a coward who was afraid to even speak out against this great evil that continues to reach out and destroy the lives of millions of children, just like it has recently touched the city of Flint Michigan. Racism and materialism go hand in hand, and they both spring from the same corrupted well. And as far as western civilization is concerned, the origins of the abomination of Christian materialism as manifested today can be traced back to Constantine the Great , whereas the origins of racism can be seen in the papal bull "Dum Diversas" which was issued by the miscreant Pope Nicholas V in 1452.
What I find most remarkable is that all of you are going to die one day. You will not take any of your money or possessions with you. And your children will only follow you to the grave. And so I will paraphrase Jesus: "What does it profit an American to defile the spirit of my ancestors, to continue this racist oppression of over 500 years, to kill the Afghan, the Syrian, and the Palestinian, to gain the whole world, and then to lose their own soul?"
I just saw this. I'll be honest I wish you well but I won't be reading any more of your posts. Racism as you and one other here have displayed isn't worth the time and effort to read or rebut.
I just saw this Live. If I said anything to offend you, I am sincerely sorry. Please stay and express your thoughts.
Don't be silly. You have not offended me. I think you have a very healthy way of viewing things. Open and honest without bitterness at the past. You are old enough to have been personally touched by things we all wish weren't a part of our history. I simply see no reason to attempt to converse with those I perceive to be stunted with hatred who have not shared any experience they have personally had which would warrant such.
Using our collective past as justification for current hatred of any group of people is not something I choose to give any credence to.
I've been discussing this forum with my husband which was a good way to question what are doing here. Venting? Testifying? Informing? I told him that he can get involved if he wants to discuss.
My objective was to get the perspective of others on what race baiting is. I had to walk away and come back a couple of times; however, I've found that leaving and coming back can be good.
I'm going to write a couple of summaries to get input. At work and in group situations we have always been encouraged to always have a solution when you bring a problem. I'm going to try that.
I'm not overly familiar with the term race baiting but I'm getting acquainted with it reading some of the posts here. That's funny that Michelle Obama's honest comment would be classified as such.
Walking away to gain perspective and digest some ideas which, at first blush, cause a negative reaction is always a good idea but this topic, like others, can cause some people to tumble into hatred with no desire to rise above it.
As I read this I had an "aha" moment. Slaves were kidnapped from Africa and brought to a foreign land and their history was not mentioned.
What was done to Native Americans was on their own lands. Nothing is taught in school to say that their land was taken away from them. I didn't learn anything about that in school. I don't know what is taught now. For Native Americans to sit in school and be taught that Columbus discovered America and not mention the harm done to Native Americans must be hard to sit and listen to.
No, of course we were not taught about atrocities regarding indiginous people, none of us were. What were we watching on television? Westerns, where the last thing we came away with was sympathy for the tribes. We got the Lone Ranger and How the West was Won.
It was only the courage associated with revisionist Cinema that appeared in the late 1960s and early 1970's that was just beginning to tell the story from a point of view of the 'other side'. Film like ' Little Big Man' released in 1970, starring Dustin Hoffman comes to mind. I liked the Billy Jack movies, beginning roughly in the same period, as well.
It is not much different today. That is why Jan Brewer and the racist government of Arizona banned Mexican American Studies from the Tuscon public school system. But three years later a federal court order reinstated the program.They do not want the people to know the true history of America. They also understand that what is taught in the public school system carries a certain legitimacy and stamp of approval that greatly influences the perspective of children. Even though children can do independent studies at home, as I did as a child, the racists understand that most will not pursue such a course.
Furthermore, the average adult, regardless of race, gets busy with making a living and raising a family after high school or college, and so the study of history goes by the wayside. What we end up with is a great majority of people who have a limited, and a one sided Eurocentric understanding of American History. This serves to protect the staus quo. This lack of understanding also helps to promote the racist notion that minorities have a victim mentality, and are the cause of their own misery, when nothing could be further from the truth. Without knowing the history of institutionalized racism, it is easy to see how even minorities can be deceived by such propaganda.
You will also notice that many contributions made by Africans have also been left out of the history books in the public school system. Here is a video you will find interesting if you are not already aware. Many scientists now believe that the Egyptian Sphinx is the representation of a great black African leader that could have been either male or female. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpuGTr0p9dM
What the heck is "Mexican American Studies"? Is that like black history month, where the achievements of only people of a certain race are learned, except it is about only Americans that were born in Mexico? Why in the world would Americans ever study such a thing - it doesn't matter where you born, just that you are an American, if the study is American History rather than world history.
Apparently you are one of the last to find out. But "America" means the entire continent, not just the United States. And for the sake of argument, if we choose to accept the concept of 'America", then everyone south of the border is also an American. The term "Mexican American" apparently troubles you, but you don't seem troubled by the fact that the European version of American History has predominantly been taught in public schools. Obviously because you feel the European is superior. Of course that would make you a ____. I'll let you fill in the blank.
I see. We then have American Americans, Brazilian Americans, Guatemalan Americans. All of which are remain exactly the same with the second term removed.
But why use it at all them? Because being from the Western Hemisphere rather than the Eastern make for superior people?
I don't identify with "American", "America", or any such nonsense. The term American is used, if you subscribe to it, because the entire continent was named America by the European. Thus I use the terms on occasion simply to expedite a conversation. Many people find it necessary to use such terms so that a majority will know what they are talking about. The term "Mexican American Studies" was obviously used to identify the study of American History that deals with the Indigenous people and the Mestizos of the Southwestern United States, as well as Mexico I assume.
Your apparent lack of understanding as to why such studies as MAS are necessary appears to be disingenuous. It is hard to believe that having studied History in high school ( I assume people in Idaho also go to high school) you would understand the Eurocentric nature of the public school system. If more than a one-sided version of American History was taught in public schools, then MAS would not be necessary, and things like Black History Month would not be as necessary as well. And from your obvious lack of knowledge about the Indigenous struggle on this continent, I am confident that you learned very little about Indigenous culture in high school. And of course this all reminds of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
I worked with a very talented black singer when I was living in New York during the 80's who grew up in Harlem. He explained to me one day why the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was offensive to him. I was quite impressed with his viewpoint. He explained that if the U.S. Constitution applied to him as a black man then there should be no need for a special law to protect his rights when the white man was protected by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Of course, he understood why the law was necessary, but his point was that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 only highlights the hypocrisy of America. Because the truth is that the United States is a nation founded by white people, for white people. If the African or the Indigenous truly had any stake in America, they would not still be struggling for justice, and against racism over 500 years later.
Wilderness, I don't think you understand the purpose of those courses of study. When I was a child, there was no mention or even a picture of anyone that wasn't white. It didn't dawn on Black kids in Arkansas, "Have Black people made contributions?" "Why are there no mention of Black people?" I only saw Native Americans, called Indians at the time, on television.
All I knew was that white people hated us. I knew they called us names, made us sit on the back of the bus, go to the back door for whatever we needed, and would not let us use "white" bathrooms and water fountains. You were not alive at the time and can't comprehend what was done. I undertand that. When you question the purpose the way you do, it makes it seems as you are being sarcastic or agreein, "Yes, you have no value."
This is the part where I saying reading/listening and understanding what is being said. You don't have to defend yourself. You were not there. When I explain it, do not think I am blaming you. You were not there but this was REAL and Hurtful. More importantly, it happened to ME!
I have always felt that setting a special month to study only Black achievements diminished any contributions made, as if those achievements were not up to the standards of white achievements so whites had to be excluded in order to find anything worthy of study - something that could have been eliminated had they just been included as people instead of Black people. That instead of combining all peoples, it drew a clear line separating the two races and thereby encouraged racism. But that's just me - perhaps it DID make black children feel better about their race to be separated as far as possible from the white race. You will not, however, convince me that it does add to racism, albeit in a subtle manner many children won't pick up on even as they absorb it and that it should be relegated to the annals of historical mistakes because of that.
But I wasn't old enough to see it? Thank you for the compliment, but my first real job after graduating college was in a small manufacturing plant (in a fortune 500 company) in the heartland of Virginia. The bathrooms had been "de-segregated" shortly before my arrival and it never DID get a women's bathroom. I was instructed to stay out of this bank of seating in the only theater around and to never enter that bar - they were reserved for blacks only. Yeah, I'm old enough.
When everything is all screwed up, it is hard for people to figure out how to solve it. Thus we have Republicans and Democrats .... and Green Party and _______.
I personally learned more in a Black school, building my foundation, than I did when I went to high schools. Many of the teachers were racist and did not help or encourage Black kids. Ms. Taylor came to me and wanted to see me the next morning before school. I went. She asked, "How old are you?" I said, "14." Her jaw dropped. She said, "You look older than anybody in the room." She was literally shocked. She suggested that I "change my hairstyle!" That was it!!!!
I didn't realize it until Soledad O'Brien did her CNN series, "Black in America" but there were low expectations for all of us in an integrated environment. Kenneth Allen, when interview by Soledad O'Brien, said the counselor told him he should be an undertaker.
Many Black kids in the inner city today, do not write as well as I did in 4th grade. I don't blame them but it is reality.
"When everything is all screwed up, it is hard for people to figure out how to solve it."
You're right, and we haven't done a stellar job. But this one, the black history, is so obvious - to me - but I can't help but think it was carefully considered and put into place because it is racist. It is another blow at blacks and another reason for whites to dislike them. Absolutely disgusting if that is indeed how it went down.
Do you mind explaining?
Do you mind also touching on the McGraw-Hill controversy? The books talks about how Africans were brought over as "workers." I'm providing sources so it won't be just my interpretation.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/04/living/mc … aint-feat/ controversy
Facebook page showing the reference in text
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid … mp;theater
My thoughts
If you can't repeat it, it should not be done in the first place.
After it is done, it should be renounced as the wrong thing to do.
What do you think? Should we just not tell what the truth was?
Yes, the truth should be told in history books and everywhere else. Without attempts to whitewash it, without attempts to change it, no matter how subtly. We see attempts to say the holocaust never happened; this is no different.
There has been a big effort lately (past decade or so), a concerted effort to change our history, and it doesn't stop with painting over slavery and what was done to slaves and blacks after the civil war. Most often a political ploy to push political agendas, but also an organized effort to actually change what happened into something else. We allow it to continue at our peril.
I was reading the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders on Wikipedia. In the history section it says..."The initial impetus for developing a classification of mental disorders in the United States was the need to collect statistical information. The first official attempt was the 1840 census, which used a single category: "idiocy/insanity". Three years later, the American Statistical Association made an official protest to the U.S. House of Representatives, stating that "the most glaring and remarkable errors are found in the statements respecting nosology, prevalence of insanity, blindness, deafness, and dumbness, among the people of this nation", pointing out that in many towns African-Americans were all marked as insane, and calling the statistics essentially useless."
I would say that was totally racist.
Not a glaring error on someone's part.
I'll be shaking my head for 10 minutes...
THANK YOU Colorful! I've been looking at censuses while doing my tree. Some people were classified as idiots and I was wondering WHY! They had asylums and prisons. I would love to understand more about the things that were happening.
I looked at many death certificates. People were dying from things that really don't seem like a big deal. Many were dying from venereal diseases or so the death certificates stated.
And what reeelly complicated the situation was when the slave masters raped and impregnated the slaves.
Last year I discovered that Mary Boykin Chestnut was the wife of James(?) Chestnut who owned slaves. He didn't know that she secretly was anti-slavery. I was able to put some of my family tree together by looking at the slave owner's inventory list. Mary Chestnut wrote about how wives were seeing the baby slaves favor the masters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Boykin_Chesnut
This is a major case of parent abuse, especially when they did not will part of their estates to their Black children.
The offshoot courses was created because the contributions of ethnic groups were not included in the AMERICAN story and that is inaccurate. If AMERICAN history when I was taught had been more inclusive........ There is more to it than the fact that George Washington cut down the cherry tree.
So why don't we include them in AMERICAN history? We don't even need to specify the race or national origin - only that they were AMERICAN. Although...if the history of the person is studied, national origin should be included. And a simple picture will give race without ever making a point of race as if it is important in any way. Let it be that great black people are no different that any other great people instead of insinuating that we have to search really hard, and eliminate other races from the competition, before we find any great black people.
I know you won't agree, but it is my opinion that the more reference to race we can eliminate from our schools, businesses, politics and even thoughts the better we will be and the less racism there will be. Leave it that we prohibit "discriminating based on race, color, national origin, religion, sex, gender identity (including gender expression), sexual orientation, disability, age, marital status, family/parental status, income derived from a public assistance program, political beliefs, or reprisal or retaliation for prior civil rights activity, in any program or activity conducted or funded by USDA (not all bases apply to all programs).". And any other groups that future generations, in mankinds infinite ignorance, shall choose to discriminate against.
Yes, it puts discrimination against blacks right in there with the aged, women, religion, gays and the rest...which is where it belongs.
Your idea would be great, but if they would actually do that remains to be seen. On the contrary, there is TEXAS that like to equate auto mechanics and goat ropers with qualified credentialed historians when it is time to develop public school textbooks. What is it that Diane is referencing? Texas is going the wrong wayaround, writing out Minority contribution to AMERICAN History and whitewashing controversial Historical events in favor of a conservative anglo centric sort of view.
People involved in your suggestion will have to be unbiased because History and its many aspects and perspectives can be highly subjective. It will take Professionals with great effort to provide an objective and balanced account within the restraints of time and curriculum.
"It will take Professionals with great effort to provide an objective and balanced account within the restraints of time and curriculum."
Possibly it will, but I suspect not in the manner and for the purpose you think. History isn't about playing a political game to be "balanced" - it is about reporting what happened. Particularly those things that made a big difference in what we were to become.
That includes slavery and it includes discrimination in all forms along with the response to it. Specific to the matter of black history month then, it isn't about teaching about as many black folk heroes as white ones; it's about teaching about the greatest of them (white or black) that can be done within the time constraints you mention. There will be fewer blacks discussed - there were fewer blacks total, and for a long time they were slaves, not statesmen, inventors, etc. - but they were certainly there and worthy of mention.
There is probably likely to be fewer blacks of little or no prominence, because for the simplest reason, they're were not as many living here. I did not imply that the contributions of blacks or any other minority groups are to be exaggerated beyond proportion. I resented the fact that AMERICAN history was just the story from the point of view of the dominant culture. I consider THAT politically motivated. But based on the stuff I learned in school then and what TEXAS is attempting to do today, there is plenty of room for improvement with inclusion when there has been absolutely none.
Yes, there's lots of room for improvement: it seems that past years not only forgot to include blacks, that "forgetting" was intentional and both racially and politically motivated. It's not alone - the sudden disappearance of atheistic historical figures from our heritage, or changing them to Christian is another example - one seems almost required to have been a professed Christian to have much of a place in Texas schoolbooks anymore (which all the nation uses). Another "forgotten" event(s) are most of the horrors of what was done to the Indian tribes encountered.
History has a way of agreeing with the prejudices of the writer, doesn't it?
Here is an interesting segment from MSNBC about the Dakota Standing Rock Protests. If you haven't seen this yet you will notice that a prominent white news anchor is saying essentially the same thing I have been saying, and in a very forceful way. This is the first time I have seen a white person so unapologetically articulate the truth of America's evil racist history, and the genocide of my people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwsCuG1kSRk
Thank you WB! Ironically, it pops up just recently while we are discussing.
Thanks, Wrench. It is always convenient to have us all simply forget what occured and let the events of the past be considered as never having never occurred simply because time has passed. MSNBC reminds us of a past that most would just as soon forget. The story of Indiginous people could have been repeated with the Aborigines in Australia.
Some people think that we are just children and not cognizant of the significance and cause and effect of these events simply because we did not experience the worse of the outrages personally. Yet, these folks are arrogant enough to tell us all to just get over it as if they are really in a position to make that call.
You can't discuss race issues when you deny that there are any problems, ignoring evidence to the contrary. I can forgive, but I would be foolish to forget, needing to defend against those who would take advantage of short memories to move us in the wrong direction.
I am just a handful of months younger than the poster of this forum thread, so it is dumb to think that my life has been so much different than her experiences.
When I recall the relative comfort afforded to German POW in AMERICAN camps in the South during WWII, I steam up when 'Jim crow' permitted these prisoners greater privileges than the Black GIs guarding them.
It was like I was told when I was a kid, if you don't like the program on TV, you can either change the channel or cut the set off, but the broadcaster will still be broadcating, regardless. My Neilson ratings are still good.
IMHO, acts are evil. Many people quote "money is the root of all evil." The money itself is not evil. The "love" of money makes people do evil things to get it. The love of possessions and power or anything we obsess on causes people to do evil.
My parents taught me to become independent. They emphasized education, morality and Christian values.
Your parents were right to teach you to think for yourself. Many parents do evil by teaching their children to hate.
Wilderness: I'm sure you heard of Buffalo Bill. We killed off their Buffalo herds on their territory to take away their hunting ground and the buffalo which were sacred to them. Why because we wanted to starve them to death? I think that would turn anybody savage. We also infected blankets that we gave them so that they would get disease and die off.. That's called biological warfare. Later, the Cherokee, built houses and learned how to read and write in English and we rounded them up and put them on the Trail of Tears to be put into reservations. Not very nice, I would say. But you can rationalize it all by saying all is fair in love and war. There is no need to sugar coat it. It is reality, the history books given in school paint another picture.
The Lakota Indians had a treaty with the U.S. so they could live in their own territory. It turns out there was gold in "them thar hills" and we broke the treaty and sent them to reservations. That is now the Black Hills of South Dakota where Mount Rushmore sits...Happy Hunting Grounds, Ya all!
I'm learning more on this forum than I have sitting in a history class. I grew up watching Westerns. Native Americans were always viewed as the bad guys, other than a guide or an enemy that became a friend by the end of the picture.
We killed free ranging, wild, buffalo that belonged to no one, and we did it for the hides (not that we would have cared had we known buffalo were "sacred"...to people that didn't even know the One True God and instead believed heathen religions that needed stamped out). Not to starve Indians. The trouble is that you refuse to try and understand the reasoning behind the settlers and, in this case, the buffalo hunters; it must be more fun to make up reasons according to modern civilized morality that it is to actually understand what was happening.
Likewise, no settler intentionally inflicted disease on the Indians. That some people did is irrefutable, but then there are STILL atrocities going on in this country. That doesn't excuse it, but there just isn't a reason to "change" history by insinuating it was common amongst the immigrants. It wasn't.
By the mores of the time, the average citizen was no more "unethical" to Indians than Indians were to them. Again, that doesn't excuse any of by modern morals, but it does put a vastly different light on the whole affair - those people, of both races, acted according to their culture. Yes, I repeat that some of the things done were beyond the pale even by those mores, but they were not common and weren't done by the vast majority of immigrants OR Indians.
It kind of reminds me of family secrets or any secrets that are eventually revealed. When it is covered up, it is really just left for others to deal with.
When I was in elementary school I was taught that the Europeans came to America because they wanted freedom to practice their religion. We didn't question it. After all, we were in school where you go to learn. We had no other information.
When I taught elementary music in a Jesus community, I overheard an elementary teachers telling students that the Europeans wanted to come to America to spread their religion which is a different thing.
If history is not recorded properly, it is spread by word of mouth from the teller's point of view. If we all learned the same truth, there would not be the stark revelations later on.
Wilderness: Then answer me this. Where are the great Indian Nation today and what were their population when the white man came on the scene compared to now? Do you think they just died off naturally? Why do you think Settlers are given that name? Here is the dictionary definition:
Settler. A settler is a person who has migrated to an area and established a permanent residence there, often to colonize the area. Settlers are generally from a sedentary culture, as opposed to nomads who share and rotate their settlements with little or no concept of individual land ownership.
Why did the pioneers have to pull their wagons in a circle when the savage Indians came down to attack them? What was the motivation for savage Indians to do that? What was Custer's last stand about. Who was Chief Josheph of the Nez Perz tribe and why did the Calvary chase his tribe into Canada. Why did he say, "I will fight no more forever."
I visited, the Black Hills where Kevin Costner (half indian) has his museum called Tatanka, which means buffalo leap.. We were given a guided tour of the grounds by a native Lakota Indian. He showed us the pits below the cliffs where the Indians would chase the buffalo over the cliffs and the buffalo would fall into the pits. They only killed enough for their sustenance, not slaughter them like the white man did. They shot them to remove the Indian food supply.
This is an excerpt from wikipedia. If you want the full story, just google Biological Warfare against Native American Indians.
Here is the memo between the two British Generals at Fort Pitt (Pittsburgh).
"General Amherst, July 8: "Could it not be contrived to Send the Small Pox among those Disaffected Tribes of Indians? We must, on this occasion, Use Every Stratagem in our power to Reduce them."
Colonel Bouquet, July 13: "I will try to inocculate the Indians by means of Blankets that may fall in their hands, taking care however not to get the disease myself."
Amherst, July 16: "You will Do well to try to Innoculate the Indians by means of Blanketts, as well as to try Every other method that can serve to Extirpate this Execreble Race."
Bouquet, July 19: "all your Directions will be observed."
There are two documented instances of biological warfare by the British against North American Indians during Pontiac's Rebellion (1763–66). In the first, during a parley at Fort Pitt on June 24, 1763, Captain Simeon Ecuyer gave representatives of the besieging Delawares two blankets and a handkerchief enclosed in small metal boxes that had been exposed to smallpox, hoping to spread the disease to the Natives in order to end the siege. The British soldiers lied to the Natives that the blanket pieces had contained special powers.[14] William Trent, the militia commander, left records that clearly indicated that the purpose of giving the blankets was "to Convey the Smallpox to the Indians. It is estimated that between 400,000-500,000 Native American Indians during and after the war died from smallpox.
I just noticed the "heathen religions that should be stamped out." Jesus wants us to share the Good News. If the settlers came to "stamp out" rather than "share," they came for the wrong reason. I can't imagine Christians going all over the world doing this. That is a sure way to stamp out Christianity.
Jesus wants us to come to Him, individually, and on our own. The "stamp out" thing is very dangerous. That is similar to what ISIS considers themselves doing. The settlers were taking matters into their own hands instead of doing things God's way. When we don't do things God's way, we mess up. That is part of the Eurocentrism I talked about.
Christianity gets a bad reputations from "Christians." God will hold them accountable for their sins.
You do realize that Christianity did the same thing throughout Europe? They did it in South America, in the Pacific islands and countless places throughout the world?
I'm not taking up for it. I find it atrocious, how much history was lost to us as they trashed entire civilizations.
But. I doubt if the spread of the faith was a driving force with American settlers as they forged their way west.
Whoever did it was wrong. Marco Rubio addressed a Christian group in (?) week before last. He was telling them that many Christians were treating glbt horribly and he spoke of how they had been treated in the past. He was not condoning same sex marriage. He was speaking of verbal abuse, ostracizism, and discrimination. People are comfortable condemning homosexuality while embracing their own sins.
Real Christians should study the Bible and follow Jesus' example. That should direct their thoughts and actions in regard to the past, present and future. That's only for the people who say they : 1) Love God with all of their hearts, minds, bodies and souls AND 2) Love their neighbors as themselves.
We are ALL neighbors.
We'll have to disagree on this one; while settlers came to build a new life, the Christian missionaries that followed them most certainly did not. They came to convert Indians and end their "evil" ways.
Christianity has been noted for this since it's inception, from the gnostics murdered in the very early centuries to the pagans of Europe to the Mormons, and the goal has always been that everyone be Christian. To the point of killing those that refused the religion sometimes, even to the point that differing sects of Christianity fought and killed each other (protestants and Catholics in the UK, for instance) just as Muslims do.
While the violence has been tempered and killing is rare (outside Africa) it is as foolish to pretend it didn't happen as it is to minimize slavery in the US.
I agree that Christians were very instrumental in helping slaves to escape and to abolish slavery.
Last month I taught a hymn class. I taught Amazing Grace and about the life of the composer, Thomas Newton. He started out being a slave trader and was almost killed at sea during a violent storm. The course of his life lead him to the Lord. He worked with William Wilberforce to stop slave trade.
The Methodist church did a lot to help slaves. My paternal grandfather, great and great, great were methodist ministers.
If I attempted a generality, please forgive me. My point is that many people call themselves "Christians" and do terrible things. That does not mean ALL Christians do terrible things.
That is the bottom line for racism. There are more than two levels in the distinction.
1. Racists - self-avowed
2
3
4
# Non-racists - loving, fair Just because this category exist, that does not me there is no racism. The frustration comes from this group saying, "No, no! There is no racism. I wouldn't ......"
Just because you are loving and fair, it doesn't mean all ___________ (Christians, white people, Black people, Yellow people) are fair.
System racism in housing has been documented because a Black person will apply for an apartment and get turned down, then a white person (may be friend of Black person) applies and gets the apartment. These things happen today. It does not mean I see you as a racist.
I'm a Christian myself and hope I am showing the love of God. If I'm not, please let me know.
But there were many Southerners who called themselves Christians that used scripture to support slavey and their ownership of slaves. The problem with so many versions of a "correct interpretation" of a true Christian is that so different a point of view on this particular topic, for example, can be so easily accomodated.
That was the point I was making. People try to justify what their doing by the Bible.
They can't get it past the 2 foundational commandments (They drive everything!)
1. Love God
2. Love thy neighbor as thyself
They may try to justify with "an eye for an eye," etc., without taking context into consideration. "Vengeance is mine saith the Lord" is an example.
When we do what we do, are we loving others? Are we considerng what is best for them? Phillippians 2:2
Understood, but the slavers justified slavery with paternalism and the benefit to the slaves as doing the Lord's work, Christianizing the savages.
Those who did sinned and were wrong. We are accountable to God for every word that proceeds from our mouths and every action we take that drives people away from God. I'm not trying to sound too simplistic on purpose. However, I believe God has the best plan for all of us. We are the ones that screw it up by doing our own version of Christianity.
I'm looking at property in zip code 72223, the most expensive land outside Little Rock, AR. There are some highly developed areas but there are large stretches (acres) that don't have any visible signs of land improvement. There are some dirt paths created by tire tracks.
Even with county tax records it is difficult to establish boundaries. I'm trying to figure that out before purchasing land I'm interesting in now.
Imagine if you will, Europe full of creative industrious people who designed / invented this and that and the other thing. The early Europeans and all others since respectfully allowed the Indians to live as they were. So, today the Indians would be the same as they always were? They would be somehow advanced / progressed? They would possess secrets for the civilized to emulate?
Or perhaps they might have emulated European ways such as buying and selling land.
If not, why not?
10 Native American Inventions that changed the world
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.c … rld-155541
I do know that the Native Americans taught the Europeans how to farm and survive here.
There is a concept called "eurocentricism." It is defined: focusing on European culture or history to the exclusion of a wider view of the world; implicitly regarding European culture as preeminent.
When people think they are better and smarter, there is a tendency for them to look down on other people and treat them as if they have no value.
While white people today cannot be held responsible for slavery, some practice racism through devaluing races of people and thinking they are less productive.
LOL. That's priceless. I wonder if the guy who said we should give credence to your comments is feeling a bit foolish right now.
I presume that is directed at me, feeling foolish? Not at all. Many of the differences between Wrench and yourselves are ideological,and so it is much easier to dismiss everything he says. There are many points of view that he presents that in my opinion are the correct assessment. You and I have found common ground on many issues eventhough I can't imagine Kasich as any thing other than your standard hard right advocate, and can never consider him for President. But does that mean that you are wrong about everything?
Heh! I like Kasich more and more as he distances himself from Trump. I would have voted for Jeb Bush.
Who knows. I'm just the evil white folk. I suppose you should petition wrench biscuit for your answers.
You're taking all of this personally, our realities are different. Why would you expect that we are going to agree on everything? I don't and yet I think no less of you for it.
You made it personal at the tale end of our discussion. Being special white folk who can't understand, I notice these things.
Come on Live! Stay in the conversation. We need it!!!!!
Perhaps you are a secular person. But from a Christian perspective, a man cannot knowingly accept stolen property, celebrate holidays that glorify murder, enjoy the fruits of evil all of his days, and then expect to get to heaven. According to scripture it simply doesn't work that way.
No one stole property. I think it has been pointed out, repeatedly, that native americans didn't own property.
And, I assume you are a Jehovah Witness or something to that effect to come up with the rest of your post. I'm not secular but, thankfully, I don't feel the need to garble scripture, attempt to climb on top of it as if I am somehow superior to the next person.
I am a student of history, philosophy, and theology, but I do not subscribe to European, or Middle Eastern theology. I have found it to be useful, but the concept of "Jesus" existed here prior to 1492. And I am in close contact with God on a daily basis, as it is impossible for me to severe such a connection. In fact, Jesus met Columbus at the shoreline, and was promptly enslaved and forced to work in the silver mines.
Anyone who has ever gone to a zoo will understand that monkeys don't care much for words, but being a reclusive misanthrope, I have grown accustomed to talking to myself. Of course native people owned property. Where do you think they lived? On the moon? My people had homes, settlements, technology, and great urban civilizations. The racist notion that the Indigenous didn't own property is simply another racist tool that is being used to justify the theft of an entire continent by the European. The fact that many native people did not have the perverted concepts of land ownership and real estate that were imported here by the European does not mean they did not have a sense of ownership and possession. And they most certainly had the right to own a home and to live in peace. The Indigenous concept of land ownership was more akin to stewardship than ownership. And if you don't know what that means then you can look it up.
The word "own" is often used to expedite a conversation, but the word has a different meaning when applied to either the Indigenous or the European. Anyone with an education will understand this. Furthermore, "The Indian Removal Act of 1830", which was the legalized theft of over 20 million acres, would have never been passed if Congress would have believed that the 5 Civilized Tribes did not hold possession of the land. Otherwise there would have been no point in passing such a law. Andrew Jackson was a murderer and a thief, but he was not that stupid. There were whites who fought against the passage of this immoral law, but as I have pointed out, their numbers were too few to have an impact.
And here I will repeat what the historical record verifies: There have always been a majority of white Americans who were either racist, or indifferent to the plight of the African and Indigenous. It is simply an arrogant racist notion that there would have been no technological progress without the evil perpetrated by the European. The native people possessed technology and science long before 1492. In many cases native technology preceded or surpassed the European. But these are things that Archie Bunker was never taught in the public school system. And this is one good reason why the integration of schools was not such a good idea. African and Indigenous children are given a one sided Eurocentric version of world history. Anyone who speaks of the good that has come from the evil of Colonialism, and the so-called "progress" bestowed upon us by criminals must surely be blind, or mentally impaired. We did not need the European to succeed, but only to suffer. Here I have provided the truth that many Americans are not aware of. This is just a short list of Indigenous technological contributions to the world. And so, you are lucky that I have found you. Live long and prosper.
MEDICINE ===========================================
• Syringes, or Hypodermic Needles
Though Scotsman Alexander Wood is credited with inventing the syringe in 1853, in pre-Columbian times South American Natives used a type of syringe made from sharpened hollow bird bones attached to small bladders to inject medicine, irrigate wounds or even clean ears.
• Oral Contraceptives:
Recorded instances of Indigenous people taking such substances date back to the 1700s, more than 200 years before the creation of a man-made substance by western medicine. One of the herbs used was the stone seed, employed by the Shoshone, while the Potawatomi used the herb dogbane.
• Diabetes medication was available to Native American diabetics by 1500 AD. (Europeans did not have a medication for this until the 1921-22 isolation of insulin; until then everyone with type I diabetes died.)
FOOD=====================================================================
• Potatoes, Peanuts, and Corn
Nearly half the world's leading food crops can be traced to plants first domesticated by the First Nations. These include: potatoes, peanuts, manioc, beans, tomatoes, sunflowers, and yams. Maize, or corn, was by far the most significant contribution, now grown on every continent except Antarctica. By the time Columbus landed, North, Meso-,and South American natives had developed at least 3,000 varieties of potatoes to suit a number of climates and had domesticated at least 300 grasses.
In contrast, European interest in plant genetics remained indifferent until the 20th century. Non-Indians in the Americas have not discovered one important plant that was not first discovered and developed by native peoples.
Corn does not exist in the wild and cannot survive without human care. It was engineered from a wild grass called teosinte 7 thousand years ago. Corn yields more grain per acre than any other cereal. And without the peanut Jimmy Carter would have never became President.
EDUCATION/SCIENCE===============================================================
• First people in the world to have mandatory education were those living in Tenochtitlan.
• The Peruvian abacus, the yupana, based calculations on the Fibonacci sequence and algebraic powers of 10, 20 and 40 as place values.
• The concept of the feed-back loop and the elements of Chaos Theory (attributed to Jacques Hadamard in 1898], both important to modern social and material sciences, economics, mathematics and business management, are ingrained in Native American traditional thought.
• The Olmecs discovered zero more than 600 years before India and more than 1200 years before Europeans.
• By 1000 AD the Aztec, Mayans, and Incas all had a calculator, called an abacus after the Chinese type invented earlier. It was entirely different in construction and used base 20 mathematics, indicating it was an independent invention.
• The Lakota used a complex geometry and several types of sundials in their annual migrations and to determine the proper annual, monthly, daily and hourly times for certain ceremonies.
• In the traditional Cayuga version of the game Dish, in which six peach stones blackened on one side are tossed, the point scores for each outcome of the toss are the exact whole number values calculated by probability theory.
• The Mayans had a 360-day calendar. By the 5th century B.C. Native American calendars were so precise that they were less than 20 minutes off.
• Many pre-contact Native Americans had their own writing systems in South and Central America; including the Aztec, the Mixtec, the Zapotec, the Teotihuacano, the Ñuiñe, the Xochicalco, the Mixteca-Puebla, the Olmec, the Epi-Olmec ,the Izapan, the Maya, and the Inca.
• In North America there were writing systems or standardized proto-writing systems among the Navajo, the Hopi, the Pueblo, the Ojibwa, the Lakota, the Dakota, the Nakota, the Lenapi, the Abenaki, the Winnebago, the Potawatomi and the Zuni; probably also among the Miqmac and the Cree, and possibly also among the Aniyunwiya.
• The Caral of South America developed a unique symbolic-communication system using knots at designated spaces in colored cords that served the same function and conveyed the same types of information as writing at 4600 years ago, only slightly later than cuneiform, the first old world writing system at 3000 years BC.
• Ancient Native Americans knew the existence of a black hole in the Big Dipper. NASA only discovered it a few years ago.
• The ancestors of the Lakota knew that the earth is a body existing in space like stars, the sun and the other planets.
• Native American observatories existed pre-contact at Moose Mountain and Minton, Saskatchewan, 2,000 years ago in Medicine Mountain, Wyoming, at 2,500 to 3,000 BC in the Eastern US Woodlands and at other sites in North, Central and South America. These complicated constructs had accurate means of tracking the movement of sun, moon, planets, and stars.
URBAN TECHNOLOGY============================================================
• The road systems of the ancient Andeans were more sophisticated than those of Rome.
• The grid pattern for urban planning originated with the Indigenous.
• Pre-contact Calusa at Key Mound in Florida constructed urban areas on manmade islands.
• New World cities first appeared in Peru in 3000 BC (Old World cities first appeared in Sumer in 4000 BC)
• The Aztec capital, with a population of 250,000, was larger than any city of continental Europe at the time of contact. Cahokia had 20,000 residents at about the year 1200, larger than the City of London at that time.
• The Aztec capital, Tenochtitlan, had running water, and botanical gardens unlike any capital in Europe. There was an organized force of a thousand public works employees that kept the crowded streets immaculate. (Conquistadors had never heard of city streets that weren't ankle-deep in sewage, as the cities of Europe.)
ARCHITECTURE=========================================================================
• The Wampanoag traditional wetu (a type of dome home), made of cedar saplings covered with bark, works like a convection oven--it's so efficient that one can stand inside it in January without a coat.
• New World pyramids were first built in Peru 5 thousand years ago. (Old World pyramids were first built in Egypt nearly 500 years later.)
• Dome homes, a 20th century marvel of energy efficiency, were actually an ancient architecture common in Native America.
• Central heating is still not that common in buildings on the British Isles. The late Dr. Howard Hayden, a Thermodynamics specialist in the Physics Department at University of Connecticut, said, “Tipi dwellers are basically living in the chimney, a most direct form of central heating.”
Hygiene and Clothing ==========================================================
• Until 1850 most shoes were made with no difference between the right and the left shoe. Even since the advent of right and left fit, shoes have warped the “form of human gait, obstructing its engineering efficiency, afflicting it with strains and stresses and denying it its natural grace of form and ease of movement”. In contrast, most moccasins custom fit specifically to the right and left foot. Podiatrist William A. Rossi, D.P.M., said “…the closest we have ever come to an "ideal" shoe was … the moccasin, … perfect in bio-mechanical function, and (with) no encumbrances to the foot or gait.”
• Well before 1492, Native Americans were commonly changing and cleaning their infants at least once a day, sometimes more often. Soiled diapering material was disposed of and replaced with fresh clean material. (Medieval European babies were diapered in swaddling cloths, which remained unchanged for months. Bathing at that time was considered "the prelude to evil", although the monks at Cluny were required to bathe twice a year. By the 1600s the diapers of European infants were changed more frequently, but still not for several days at a time. Although the more progressive nobility sometimes bathed themselves as often as once a week, bathing infants was generally thought to be ill-advised because it was believed to "open the pores to the disease". Until sometime in the 1800s diapers were customarily dried but not washed before re-use. By the mid-1800s, common people now often bathed their infants and themselves once a week. Diaper rash and other skin maladies connected with soiled diapers can cause pain and scarring, and develop into life-threatening conditions.)
Wilderness, Trump's statement of 58 percent is more than an exaggeration, but an deliberate fabrication to attempt to convince people who know that Trump is a phony, from whom he will not receive 1 percent of their vote. What is Trumps solution to the poverty problem, besides his merely saying that he will 'fix it'? Exaggeration borders on blatant lies, and yes his past record in regards to his own behavior in regards to race matters has not been sterling.
You can distort 'pertinent information' with exaggerations and lies to the point where itis no longer pertinant information. The first rule of respect is do you homework and make sure the stats you mouth off about are accurate, Trump has yet to figure this out.
BTW, I will get you the evidence supporting my positions of unjustified shootings from the other thread.
I'd like to comment on your statement that Trump says he'll 'fix' the poverty problem; which you consider to be bs. Both parties have had ample time to chip away at the poverty problem. It's getting worse, not better. What would make you believe Hillary, an establishment candidate, will do any more good?
I'd say Trump can't do any worse than they've all done so far.
But Clinton claims she will create wealth by stealing it and destroying any incentive to produce. Surely that will work!?
I don't support Hillary so I have no comment on this one.
Sooner or later the populace is going to have to accept that the same promises over and over again, which result in no good outcome, in no change for the betterment of the segment of the population the funds are being thrown at means either the promises are empty or the ideas are bad.
LTL, I don't think they ever will. We all dislike having the homeless, the poverty ridden infirm, the hungry among us and all want to help. It's really easy to convince people that cry inside for the hopeless folk locked into desperate poverty that they only need a few dollars to live a good life, just as we do. And it does help...until the end of the month, when the money is gone and they are still just as poor as they were and just as hopeless.
Very few are willing to look at the long term consequences, then - they just look at the "today" as we again feed the hungry and house the homeless - that they are the exact same individuals we did the same thing for last year and the year before is hidden away and never, ever discussed. That they are fed today is all that matters - tomorrow will take care of itself as the country slowly slides down the path of the nanny state and total control over the poor. As we go further and further into loading impossible debt onto our own children. Debt that will eventually destroy all of us.
For long term solutions require pain. They require effort and work, they require a change in the poor that neither they nor the givers wish to "inflict" on them. So the grand ideas, the ever growing monetary payments, the eternal charity will continue until there is nothing left to give.
I just want Trump to lay out a plan to how he is going to 'fix it'. All republicans in in ideological principle always do worse. GOP administrations over the past 50 years attest to that.
Hillary is picking up on Sander's better ideas of income means tested low cost or free education opportunity, that helps.
Taxing stock trades to provide income
Investment into the crumbling infrastructure as a source of jobs rather than just handing money to Thurston Howell, in the trickle down tradition could be helpful as well.
So, what does the GOP offer except pick yourself up by bootstraps when you do not have boots?
No, giveaway programs, whether free education, raising taxes to give it away or any other form does NOT help poverty. It merely extends it further, denying people the opportunity to support themselves. This is a typical liberal ploy to, very temporarily, make things seem better as they get worse.
Infrastructure could help, but most of those jobs requiring heavy training. You don't come out of the ghetto and jump on a backhoe. Past presidents have managed it (the new deal invested heavily in infrastructure) but all that was required was a strong back.
That's your opinion, but the people will give you their opinion when they vote otherwise this Coming November 8th. Stay tuned....
How about part of that infrastructure being used to train apprentices to acquire critical skills ? Itis hard to better yourself if you have neither the skills nor resources to do so.
Do you really think that significant numbers of "uncle toms" wish to learn trades, skills and knowledge to fit into the working world? You know as well a anyone what the reaction of their gang lords and drug ridden friends will be - can you possibly think that even 1 out of a 100 will put forth the effort to learn in the face of that peer pressure? Knowing that it isn't necessary - that as long as they stay poor they will be fed, housed and cared for just by casting a vote for the "right" person?
We look down on blue collar workers as uneducated and rather stupid to boot, but it took four years of study and experience to gain my electrical journeyman license. Night school + 40 hour weeks for 4 years - after graduating high school - how many of the poor will submit to that? I will say that there are easier courses, but they are all difficult and much more so for someone with an effective 6th grade education.
What is with the 'uncle tom' thing? I describe the Fox News lackeys, like Sheriff Clarke as Uncle Toms.
I think that ther are a lot more people that would take advantage of an opportunity to move forward than you give credit for.
Skilled tradesmen are not widget workers but are a vital part of a 21st century economy. Why would the poor not take advantage of opportunity not live on society's outskirts if ther are viable paths?
The only people left that insist on a failed lifestyle will be those that deliberately choose it.
I am just more optimistic that more people than less will take advantage of opportunity, doing what it takes to stay on the provided path. As for those that continue to wallow under those circumstances, I will write them off and leave them to their fate without sympathy.
"As for those that continue to wallow under those circumstances, I will write them off and leave them to their fate without sympathy."
And yet...it is those that "wallow in the circumstances" that most desperately need our help, for if they are allowed to continue to do so the group will only build in size and violence. It is they that are the looters, the murderers of cops, the ones we see and hear wailing about their place in life.
While those that WILL work and support themselves are already trying their best and need only a small amount of help to be successful. A little help with training, maybe some work clothing or tools. No, they will not become rich, never a millionaire, but they can and will provide for themselves and their children WILL learn and do better.
We see those people already, and in some of the worst poverty stricken areas of our nation. They are the ones standing in front of, and protecting, the line of blue during a riot. They are the ones holding a job - any job - and doing their best to provide for their families. They need little from us but time and a fair shake - a fair shake that the large majority of the country is more than willing to provide. They do not need the billions of dollars funneled into "helping" the poor and they most certainly do NOT need a nanny state deciding what they can or should be doing to stay where they are.
There are a lot of people that wallow in those circumstances. It. Is not just the criminals but many of the poor, they don't have to be engaged in criminal activity because they are poor and live in the ghetto. One does not necessarily correlate with the other. There are plenty, most that suffer in silence.
So, let's provide the help to those that are willing to work to change their circumstances, I just want more in the form of education grants to such people.
While people like Trump can never understand because they were born with a silver spoon in their mouth, people of more modest means are in a position to relate.
I am sure that in your background you had to be extrordinary and exceptional to escape poverty in all of its psychological and physical aspects. The problem is, however, that everybody can't be extrordinary and exceptional. It takes extrordinary energy to break away from a downward spiral. The points in your second paragraph are what most people want. The people that you categorize as 'thugs' are a relative small portion of underserved communities.
I also see' these people' among the protestors as well. I could peacefully protest the issue, so it is not only thugs that are complaining about excesses of law enforcement folks in Black communities. I would complain, too, and I am no thug.
The question is the difference you and I have as to whatis a fair shake. Poor folks do not have the money for college or trade schools with all the associated costs. There is a big difference between a mindset of 18-19 and that of someone say at 25. By 25, many can see that the games must come to end and jobs flipping burgers and cleaning toilet may have got you by back then, but now? I say with means tested free or no cost education, there is the opportunity for a second bite at the apple, rather than being condemned to a lifetime of marginal existence because of an error in judgement. Who was around to give the kind of advice and encouragement at that critical moment that you probably received?
The problem with the' right' is that it is always "us against them". The 'boomer generation' are now living from income tax receipts of current workers for all of the entitlements. It is in my interests to keep the foundation for a strong economy with as many gainfully employed as possible. Also, to remove selfish and petty obstacles from that goal.
I am not advocating for a tax payer funded featherbed, just more help to those that wish to put forth the effort to overcome obstacles. Probably more help than you would feel comfortable with, that is the difference. To make conservatives happy maybe there needs to be some sort of national service requirement. Successful examples could go a long way in breaking the cycle of poverty and dependence for some in low income communities.
Better than Clinton's - he says he will create jobs. She will just take from one to give to another, destroying any incentive to produce it.
But I would be interested in seeing your "proof" that the exaggeration was deliberate and designed to "to convince people who know that Trump is a phony, from whom he will not receive 1 percent of their vote." Not only does the statement make zero sense, it rather doubt you can support it outside of pure opinions from biased people.
TRUMP’S CLAIM: “58 percent of African-American youth are either outside the labor force or not employed.” [Detroit Economic Speech, 8/8/16]
WHAT THE EXPERTS HAVE PREVIOUSLY SAID: Politifact: Donald Trump’s black youth unemployment number “comes from a computation of all 16- to 24-year-old blacks who aren’t working and may not even want a job, including high school and college students.” “Trump says the unemployment rate for black youths is 59 percent. The unemployment rate is a widely used term with a specific definition: It refers to the percentage of jobless people in the workforce who are actively seeking employment. In May, the unemployment rate for blacks ages 16 to 24 was 18.7 percent, or less than one-third of Trump’s claim. Trump’s campaign didn’t respond to our question about where the candidate got his 59 percent figure. But it appears likely it comes from a computation of all 16- to 24-year-old blacks who aren’t working and may not even want a job, including high school and college students. Clearly, black youths have a harder time finding work than whites. But Trump exaggerates the issue through his misleading use of statistics. We rate his statement Mostly False.” [PolitiFact, 6/20/16]
http://correctrecord.org/fact-check-don … mployment/
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-re … d=41250145
I said that. His number is grossly overstated. And gave a link showing it is around 20% (I think in July).
But your comment was that statisticians don't figure youth at all - that school kids aren't counted whether looking for work or not. Patently false, and a clear attempt to vilify Trump for even suggesting that black youths have a problem with finding work - a problem that is double that of the rest of the country.
Which, in turn, becomes a part of why it is so difficult to discuss race issues. Pretending it doesn't exist because you don't like Trump becomes a part of that difficulty. Jumping all over an exaggerated number while ignoring that black youth has double the unemployment rate does nothing to solve it. A very real racial problem is turned into nothing but a political statement against a presidential candidate and that's not the way for find answers.
Being truthful about the scope of the problem is a great place to start.
Yes it is. It surely is. And when we find someone exaggerating the problem we should just dismiss it in favor of a rant about their lies?
You are a prime example, Credence - you consistently (IMO) grossly overstate the severity of the problem in this country. But I don't just scream about you lying, even with a known exaggeration - I discuss it with you. I agree there is a problem, even when it isn't nearly as bad as you insinuate, and look for solutions.
But here it's all about demonizing Trump. The actual, very real problem of racial inequalities isn't even a part of it. Just screaming that Trump is a liar as if that is germane to the question of why we can't discuss race rationally (the topic of the thread).
I don't know if you are reading all of my comments or not. I know the unemployment rate is higher, especially in the inner city. I gave several of the multiple reasons why.
It sounds like II must agree with you in order to honestly discuss race. You didn't seem to become upset when Live to Learn basically agreed with me or so I thought.
I'm much closer to the situation than you are. I am
a) Black
b) a teacher
c) work in the inner city
d) have relatives who live in the inner city
e) know kids/adults in the inner city who can't find jobs
f) know of the businesses that have left the inner city
g) know the fear of decent people who are trapped in the inner city
h) know of the high number of students who are absent or ditch classes
i) know students who take standardized test and indiscrminately check off blocks so they can hurry and get done with it
h) have been discrimnated against multiple times
It is not an either or situation. The problem is complex and, as I've stated before, needs cooperation from everybody - whether they created the problem or not.
I don't agree with people just to agree. That's a waste of time.
I think I've caught all your posts. You don't have to agree to have a discussion: my point here was that going off on a rant about Trump isn't even discussing the issue, let alone looking for answers.
For instance, your g) (just to pick one). I'm sure you DO understand that better than I...but perhaps I can offer insights from my own personal history of being trapped in a hateful job. Not a racial thing, not inner city - just trapped in something I hated, which might offer some insight on a possible solution.
But just complaining that Trump is a liar does nothing. We both agree, at least fairly close, on black youth unemployment - the question is what can be done about it, not about how bad Trumps figures are.
I just commented where I think you said you don't trust Trump either .... but better than HRC. Now I know what's up! You are frustrated. Me too! I have been dealing with frustration for months: don't vote, write-in candidate, tweeting RNC to get someone else, etc. Then I realized, whoever becomes president is because God allows it. My responsibility is to do what God wants me to do regardless of who is president.
I don't have any intense emotions about this Wilderness. Don't stress! When you have a job you hate, it is easier to search for another job than be an 80 year old widow on social securty in the inner city who has medical issues.
Stop being a bully and just say what you want to say. I ain't mad atcha!
Said it already. Poked you with a stick for getting off track and hollering about Trump instead of staying on topic about racial problems.
But yeah, I'm frustrated with all the mud slinging this year - worst I can remember. And sometimes it boils over.
Yep - easier for me than an 80 year old widow on SS. But that's not one we can ever hope to turn into a productive citizen, either. The kids that refuse to learn - they're the ones that we really need to apply efforts to, those and the ones that simply sit home and wait for their check because they don't want to work. There are simply too many ways to scam the system into a lifetime of welfare checks, IMHO. The system is broken to the point that those we should be helping to put on their feet get nothing while those that refuse to help themselves get it all.
*edit* And now it's me diverging from the topic!
There are certainly people who scam the system. How do we help those that deserve help and identify the scammers.
As I've said before, it drives me nuts that girls have babies in middle and high school. I try to explain that those checks they run to apply for are possible because of people who work. Now that I'm retired, I am not able to make my speeches any more.
I hope whoever becomes president will be able to successfully implement welfare-to-work, stop teen pregnancy, and help kids to be prepared for the workforce.
BTW, the discrimination over the past 5 years has been because of my age or they thought it was time I retire. No one cared about what my retirement income would be. God is good and it is a whole lot better than I imagined!
I don't really know how to identify the scammers, except to give some authority to people handing out checks. Let them make some calls instead of blindly following the book...whereupon abuse grows as they help their friends. I don't know.
Yeah, so many people think it's all free money from Uncle Sam. Anything paid for by the feds (or state, etc.) is free. To be fair, though, they've been taught that by people far more impressive and smart than any old teacher - their parent and their friends. They've also been taught that instead of charity being a little shameful it's a mark of pride - a badge that they "stuck it" to the evil rich man that causes them to live the life they do.
How to fix it? Don't know except to note that if payments suddenly stop, very very few will actually starve. They WILL work for their living, although much of that work will be stealing, drug running, etc. Workfare was a good idea, but the liberals destroyed it with the attitude that it was "demeaning" to have to actually work for the housing, food, etc. being received. It needs to start up again, and to include every able bodied person on welfare, including most of the partially disabled.
My wife went through the age bit, too. She lost her job in the recession, went to college and trained for a new field but after filing hundreds and hundreds of applications got not a single interview. Female, 55+, no experience and what skills she had were very specific to a specific business. No jobs at all - she even applied for a walmart greeter!
I was luckier - when I was laid off (lack of work) I stuck it out for a few months and then took early retirement. Yeah, I lost much of my SS check, but we kept our home and haven't gone hungry. Like you, I'm happy in retirement. Get to poke pretty ladies with a stick when they veer off topic!
I don't want to help those that don't want to work as well, let us just make sure that that is the only reason left for why they are not working.
Any thoughts on what to do with the women that keep having kids in order to grow their income? The surest way in this country to increase your welfare is to have a few babies, and it is done with a vengeance. Any solutions?
It is not that simple, the controversy surrounding Trump and his interface with black community and our differences in attitudes about Trump relative to those held by whites strikes at much of the open wounds regarding race relations today, so discussion of him in that context is not irrelevant.
How in the hell can anyone confuse 20 percent as opposed to 60%? Republicans have always said that they would create jobs, how many jobs were lost under GW Bush and the loathesome philosophy? Yes, I agree with Diana, I don't trust Trump. And I go furthe to say that I don't trust the GOP to do nothing but make a bad problem worse.
"how many jobs were lost under GW Bush and the loathesome philosophy"
Is this your proof that the exaggeration was deliberate and designed "to convince people who know that Trump is a phony, from whom he will not receive 1 percent of their vote."? Or just a change of subject because you can prove neither claim?.
I don't trust Trump either. More than I trust Clinton, though, and LOTS more than I trust the liberal philosophy that playing Robin Hood is a good thing.
Geez, Wilderness, the scope the error is so great that it has to deliberate. Should Donald be more responsible for the statements he makes on the campaign trail or are you going to give him another free pass for that as well?
And of course it is far, far worse than telling Congress that "I put no classified information on private servers". Got it.
Now THAT one was very deliberate, potentially extremely harmful, and illegal to boot but it got a free pass anyway. Is that what you want? You want to talk about free passes for deliberate statements, lets start with that one.
:0 YOU don't trust Trump???? So why are you tongue-lashing me???
I hope my emoticon works out.
Because the discussion is not about Trump: it's about why race problems can't be discussed reasonably...when a member of the discussion suddenly goes off on a rant about how Trump is a liar. He is, plus often mistaken, but that doesn't have anything to do with the question of racial problems.
Emoticons: hit the "formatting" button under the reply box and it will tell you what to use.
(About the only I trust Trump for is to be the least effective President, ever, if elected. )
Well ex--cuse me. I usually do better at keeping people on track. Sometimes I get off for which "I am sorry."
BTW, what do you men we are getting off track when we talk about Trump. That's the new of the week.
Thank you for emoticon tips. I prefer selecting and then it appears.
I woke up to a heated discussion about Donald Trump and the Black vote on CNN this morning. I wish we all could have watched and commented.
Points made include no mention of Black people
a) who are prosperous and living outside inner city
b) Olympic athletes (I remember when Allyson Felix was born and Michael Tinsley is my cousin!)
c) lower middle come Blacks who work hard and sacrifice for their kids (I know I have a well raised kid when he/she comes in with pants around the waist. Parents who discipline their kids will not allow it.)
His speech perpetuates a stereotype of Black people. Calm down Wilderness! I'm sorry I had to mention Trump again.
I'm not mention HRC because all attention is on her charity and emails. It baffles me but that's not about race.
re: the blacks not mentioned. Is that because they have "made it" - are supporting and behaving themselves (not rioting, not in gangs, etc.)? Are they not mentioned because they aren't being discriminated against?
Or just because they don't fit the stereotype desired whether it be thugs living in the inner city or being severely discriminated against?
I have asked myself if there is a division. In a sense there is a division because those who have been able to overcome because of whatever circumstances.
Opportunity and exposure help mold everyone's hierarchy of what's important. Racism is experienced differently.
Example: I had an earned BBA when I started working @ an aerospace company. People I workedd with made sure I realized that I was the "first" Black person to work in the payroll department. I had done payroll and secretarial duties from 12thr grade through college in Little Rock, Arkansas. None of the people I worked with in payroll had been to college. a) Why were not Black people with a high school education hired to work in payroll b) Why was I not hired into an accounting department in a position that required a degree.
At this time, Hughes was the largest employer in the State of California so it was no issue of only 2 or 3 jobs. 80,000 people were working there when I was hired.
I won't go through other examples. Each one made me wiser and build skills I need to navigate through life.
Maybe the blacks who were not mentioned weren't mentioned because they are not seen as in need of help? Aren't seen as a festering problem?
If someone mentions a problem with women I don't get upset when their discussion doesn't include praise for the particular group I identify with Or if they don't touch on it in some way. Nor do I take offense if programs to throw tax dollars my way aren't forthcoming.
What monetary gain does a government owe any of us? Keeping in mind that every dollar any one individual gets didn't just appear in the government treasury magically. It came out of another individual's pocket.
True Live; HOWEVER, it is important to target. If the target is inner city, then the approach is different from the target of Black people in general. Inner city includes a group, with large and growing Hispanic population, that should be addressed specifically.
1. Lower wages/income are middle class issues, regardless of the location
2. High crime is more specific to the inner city
3. No jobs is also more specific to the innter city; however,
4. College graduates, regardless of location, are experiencing problems finding jobs
5. schools - every school I've taught at in inner city had 80+% Hispanic population AND
6. non-documented immigrants comprise a large portion of those students in inner city schools
I'm just saying it is overly simplistic to associate Black problems with inner city problems. It's frustrating as heck and I am praying, strategizing and trying to find ways I can help.
It's good illegall immigration is being discussed; HOWEVER, I see those kids as human beings that I love. They have issues just like other kids in addition to their illegal status. I've had students whose homes have been broken up because mom was sent back to Mexico and kids put in foster homes. Gotta stop on this one. I'm in tears again.
Ok. Inner city problems should be addressed as such. I agree. No reason to bring race into it. Gangs, drugs, crime. It doesn't matter the ethnic group. All can probably be tackled with the same strategy.
As to the lower wages/income for the middle class. I'm not certain I believe the government can alleviate this. Although I will say that the more protections the government attempts to put in place for full time workers the less full time workers exist within large companies. Part time seems to be the solution du jour to bypass the need for supplying benefits.
College graduates not being able to find jobs is, again, difficult for me to blame on the government. They can help create a business friendly environment but in so doing that goes at odds with much of what we complain about.Raising taxes to pay for ever burgeoning programs is not usually business friendly.
I agree that undocumented aliens are people too but if you flaunt the law a price is normally expected when you are found out. Do these people not have the option of taking their children home with them?
With this post you have show one answer to your OP question.
1. "You're living in poverty."
According to statistics, 26/27% of Black people are living in party. (You indicates all/inclusive)
While it is true that only 27% of blacks live in poverty, it is still about twice the rate of the country as a whole. There is thus a large grain of truth here. Trump exaggerates, but you ignore a very pertinent fact.
Response to Wilderness
I did not say that it is acceptable. I said that it is grossly exaggerated. The reason it is so high takes in a number of factors. companies move out of the neighborhoods (for safety, to go where the customers are, insurance is cheaper, etc.); inner city people don't have transporation to make it to jobs (reliable cars, transit doesn't run consistently in certain areas,); insufficient education/training (for jobs at schools, all levels of government, etc.); criminal records (rely complicated here because record may include minor offenses like dui, etc.); discrimination, etc.
2. Your schools are no good.
Stop blaming teachers. There should be community involvement/mandatory participation by parents.
But he didn't blame teachers. And there are far too many schools that are both predominately black AND are pathetic. You even say so by by giving some reason it is so. This, too, then has too much truth to ignore, and changing the topic to teachers doesn't change that.
Response to Wilderness
If not teachers, then who? They work with these kids on a daily basis ... when they come to class. Many ditch. Some come to class not ready to learn (anger, hungry, homeless, abuse, etc.)
3. You have no jobs!
Statistics state that 8/9% of Blacks are unemployed - 1/7 of the 58% figure Trump quoted. Stastisticians have told him that you don't include kids in high school and college. The high number supports his narrative.
Trumps statement was "You have no jobs - 58 percent of your youth is unemployed.". It isn't true (the proper figure is around 20%) but it is still around double the unemployment rate for youth nationwide - you've once more ignored pertinent information to try and make the statement totally false. And yes, there are statistics for youth, ages 16-24. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/youth.nr0.htm
Response to Wilderness
If Trump had hired locals instead of people from other countries to work, how many jobs would that provide. They would spend the money here in the US and it would help the economy. Everything he cells, he makes out of the country. Businesses fail, people lose jobs, the economy is impacted.
If he can only figured out how to help one person as a $10 billionaire, who brags about hiring people, what can he do as a president. You can't even depend on him to hold one position consistently. He was going to "become Presidential" and now it's "I am who I am." Then "I regret things I said."?????
4. What the hell do you have to lose?
His past record shows nothing that he has done to improve Black employment as an employer and he has discriminated as his father did. A bird in the hand may be worth two in a bush.
If any of his business has hired even a single black person then it has done something to improve black employment. That you might wish him to hire blacks disproportionate to the local demographics does not mean that he is doing nothing and even if you could prove illegal discrimination it still wouldn't mean he does nothing. Another exaggeration, then, because he doesn't do what you would like him to do.
Response to Wilderness
I doubt hiring 1 Black person in the inner city is disproportionate to the local demographics. I haven't asked him to do anything. He asked me to trust him. I have no reason to.
You don't like Trump, you find him to be racist. I get that. But to take his statements and either complain about something else or pretend that there is no truth in them doesn't solve anything. There is some truth (although he exaggerates as badly as you did) and they are points that should be discussed and solutions found for, not simply shoved aside because you don't like the man. It makes discussing race very difficult when you do that.
Response to Wilderness
I don't whether he is personally racist or not. He panders to racists. It only takes one word to turn the truth into a lie. I think it is pretty fair. I said what I truly believe and so did you. That is an honest discussion. If I agree with you and don't believe in what I'm saying, I'm lying. The same for you. If you don't believe what I say, I appreciate your input.
This is the longest discussion I have had with any group of people were there is not a complete breakdown. I appreciate all of you guys for that. I love to discuss difficult issues. In the long wrong, it is worth it!
Diane, you missed the whole point of the post, continuing to devote at least half of this post in demonizing Trump instead of discussing the racial issue. That's what I was talking about, not specifically whatever it is that Trump said.
You took his "you live in poverty" and tried to say it isn't true and he lies while double the black population is in poverty compared to the average for the country. This isn't talking about racial issues - it's demonizing a candidate.
Same thing with jobs - instead of addressing a very real issue that Trump brought, albeit with a gross exaggeration - you chose to state that youth figures aren't available, that they don't matter anyway. This isn't talking about a very real racial problem, either - it's about throwing mud at a candidate.
I'll repeat - when a discussion of racial problems degenerates into throwing mud in a presidential election the race issue fades into the background and is forgotten. It makes it really, really hard to talk about the real issue of racial discrimination and problems.
Most of this thread, better than most anyway, has stayed on topic about racial problems and discrimination. Yet here is the OP, off on a tangent of dislike for a presidential candidate instead of talking about race. Stay on track, girl!
Humans cannot talk about racism in a productive manner because we love the drama. Without drama, this isn't America. People love to be able to feel superior over one another. We love power. Being able to talk down to someone, that's the thrill of it all. I don't specifically look at racism as a color or ethnicity thing. Racism is also social class, rankings in jobs, rankings in sports, etc. Let's be real, do you think Lebron James thinks he would lose to Earl Boykins? No. Lebron knows he is on of the greatest of all times, so whether consciously or unconsciously, he would think/know he is better than him and wouldn't give Boykins a chance. That's racist to me. Everyone deserves a chance, no matter the color, rank, social class or even how good you are at something. Theres always someone better and also there is always an underdog.
I think those situations would fit better under prejudice and discrimination (if there is an element of power or decision-making involved).
You have a good point!
I hope this catches on in the Southside of Chicago
Taking Back the Neighborhood with an Army of Moms
http://www.greatbigstory.com/stories/th … ottomlarge
The problem is not discussing the issue (or non issue) the problem is there is no longer a way in which to satisfy people who believe they are repressed. You can scream racism all day and say treat me the same, yet that is not enough. We are not treated equal in this country because minorities are given advantages that non-minorities are not given. I will be repaying student loans until I die while people who attended school with me were given an education for free. So if we are going to be equal, then let us be honest that equal is not what people want. People want SPECIAL TREATMENT. I mean don't we all love special treatment.
Michelle, thank you for commenting.
That sounds were discussing if you don't mind.
I don't know whether or not you read the post about getting school loans forgiven. If you work on certain jobs the loans can be forgiven.
I know of know special programs for Black people. The State of California has a grant for residents that have a 2.0 gpa when they are accepted. From there they must keep the 2.0.
Do you mind being specific about non-whites are not required to pay their loans back?
Welcome to the Forum!
There is no question that Blacks have been maligned in U.S. History. There is also no question that Blacks have risen in U.S. History. Consequently, when we speak of race, we should also speak of the significant improvements that have occurred over the years with regard to race relations. Otherwise, we are like a person in therapy who has never gotten off the psychiatrists couch to do something about his past issues. And in fact, Americans have “gotten off the couch” in many areas regarding race; i.e., the Civil Rights Act; having elected a Black president, as well as in many, many other ways.
Also, we need to know that the slaves joined a work force which included local white laborers and artisans from Maryland and Virginia, as well as immigrants from Ireland, Scotland, and other European nations.
https://www.whitehousehistory.org/quest … hite-house
I believe Michele Obama made the “slave statement” in her speech because African American slavery is at the forefront of her thinking as well as that of her husband, Barak. Both were highly influenced by Reverend Jeremiah Wright, who was their pastor for twenty years. Rev. Wright spoke openly about his hatred for America and the White race.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/ … tions20083
Additionally, Michelle Obama understands the power of speeches that appeal to the emotions, as does her husband. (Hillary Clinton also understands this, as did her husband, Bill, which is why they always speak about how unfair things are for African American’s, etc., etc.) Unfortunately, their continuous thread of negative speeches about the separation of blacks and whites, as opposed to how far we have come, has not by any means created greater unity amongst people, but has instead driven blacks and whites further apart, I would guess, by twenty years. (I find this somewhat ironic as Obama is received an astounding amount of white votes---over Hillary Clinton, a white woman.)
I do not wish to offend, but if we are to discuss race, we have to look at the good and not forever dwell on the bad (like the patient on the couch). We must move forward. That being said, neither should we forget, just as the Jews must never forget.
savvy, in the same sentence that she talks about slaves building the Capitol she talks about the fact that she now lives there. That is talking about progress. How did you take it?
I took it as a speech to elect Hillary for president, as well as an account of history that was partially accurate, and which stated "...That is the story of this country, the story that has brought me to this stage tonight, the story of generations of people who felt the lash of bondage, the shame of servitude, the sting of segregation..." And so, it was a speech which carried emotional appeal, as if to say that Hillary Clinton can manage all race issues, and which obviously omitted the truth about the Republican Party, which was established to eradicate slavery and which has done more to build up the working classes.
It was obvious that she was supporting Hillary. That is why she was there.
I don't understand why she can't mention slavery. Throughout the years I have heard white coworkers and in other situations talk about their Irish or Dutch or whatever heritage. We have been through that. Why is a Black person not allowed to speak of his ancestors?
We can and should speak about our heritage. All ethnicities should be proud of where we came from. But when White Americans and all other Americans who are not African American, keep hearing a preponderant amount of negative anecdotes from our President and others who work in our government, it is frustrating---as it seems to dismiss the good that has been accomplished in America. Such speech has the effect of eroding, however subtly, the many accomplishments that have been made in this country regarding race relations.
And so, little by little, with every single speech in which both Obama and Hillary (not to mention most Democrats) constantly make reference to the negative, many white people just become frustrated and finally, just plain angry---much like a formerly bad husband who has tried hard to men his ways, but is at his wit's end because his wife keeps on bringing up his past. (I believe this frustration and anger created a vacuum in which Trump could rise, unfortunately, which is why many former white Democrats led the way in getting Trump nominated.)
Trump however, is fantastically less clever than The Obama's or the Clinton's.
And so, not unlike the Germans of the Holocaust, most Americans have tried to make reparation and to move forward. Most of us, save the die-hard bigots, thought that we had.
I am Hispanic. My father and grandfather experienced prejudice. It wasn't pretty, but they didn't dwell on it often. In fact, they almost never did. When my father, a Democrat and an accomplished "federal government" man made speeches, he didn't bring up how badly he was treated. When most Hispanics, Asians and Irish, etc. speak about their heritage, they speak of their family names and where they came from---originally. It almost seems as if a lot of African American's feel as if their history began with the lynching's in America, as opposed to the continent of Africa or whichever specific country...
That's all. In short, we had made progress, but I maintain that Obama and now Hillary's constant speeches about terrible race relations and slavery, etc. have and are taking us backward.
In any situation in which relationships need to be improved, it is not useful to keep bringing up all the "horrible stuff' that happened all of the time. Consequently, some people are at their wits end as to how else to communicate.
I'm sorry if my comment is in any way offensive. I don't want to hurt anybody. I believe in all people, no matter the race. I just think we need to move forward by acknowledging each others accomplishments.
It seems as if you are speaking about politics, the elections, etc. We can't discuss all that within the confines of
1) Was the comment Michelle Obama made "race baiting" and
2) Why can't we have a productive discussion about race
I am not a Democrat or a Republican. I respect Michelle Obama's education, intelligence and accomplishments. I don't read anything into her comments that she doesn't say.
So are you saying that Michelle Obama is race baiting because she is a Democrat, supports Hillary Clinton and is married to Barack Obama?
I believe I stated that we can have a productive dialogue when both parties acknowledge the other's accomplishments. As for race baiting, I cannot say what Michelle was thinking. If you are not familiar with Rev. Wright, who was the Obama's pastor for twenty years, then you might want to do some research on him. I provided a link. As I said, I believe all races have made many accomplishments and it would be refreshing to hear more about how far we have come. That is the basis for healthy relationships---to acknowledge the good in the other and to build upon it.
Well, Michelle's husband is a politician and she was making a political campaign speech. I was just trying to answer your original question about her comments and I gave some background information in the form of some links as well as an explanation about what people generally respond to with regard to positive dialogue.
We are discussing race relations. It seems you have a problem with her being in politics. People have a right to support whomever they choose. That is a choice.
Racial makeup is not a choice. We are only dealing with people's racial relations.
There is nothing wrong with your philosophy. The probllem is the inability to appreciate accomplishments of people who look different from you. We go to school to learn the history of people who have made the contributions. Often the contributions of some people are made at the expense and to the detriment of others.
It's interesting that Colin Kaepernick is in the news now. I thought of comments Wrench Biscuit has been making. When I first heard of Kaepernick sitting through the Star Spangled Banner, I thought he was wrong. Now, not so much. I hear he sat through the song at least two other times but was not in uniform. When he sat in his uniform, he got a lot of attention.
As differing views were discussed, a vet said he should go beyong sitting through the song. The newscaster said that possibly this is the beginning. Because he sat in his uniform it started conversatin all over media sources. I never heard of the guy before. I looked him up and now I know about him.
You can't be proud of something you don't know about.
No, Diane. You are dead wrong about my ability to appreciate others who look different from me. That is a false assumption. I am disappointed that you have come to that conclusion. There is nothing of truth in that statement. I had no pre-conceived notions about you. My ancestors have suffered too, but we moved on despite current prejudices. How presumptuous and unkind of you.
Unfortunately, there are many Blacks in the victimology, rescue me consciousness & mindset. Yes, there is prejudice but every group who came to this country encountered prejudice in one form or another & still do very covertly. The problem with many Black Americans is many choose to wear their victimology on their sleeves. They refuse to take responsibility for their negative actions, behaviors, & lifestyles. They would rather blame outer society for their malaise than themselves.
Many Black Americans have opportunities to improve themselves educationally & socioeconomically but are satisfied being less educated & poor. They seem to glorify, even deify their lack of education & impoverishment. They scorn those who better themselves educationally & socioeconomically. For instance, I was reading a book on the history of the English language by Dr. Pei & one of my less educated aunts derided me for reading the book. She had the opportunities to improve herself but elected not to. She still is impoverished & grumbling. She is also very light-skinned & had greater opportunities to succeed because of this factor. But I digress, she was offered many managerial jobs but refused to take them yet she complains about her impoverishment, go figure.
By contrast Black Caribbeans refuse to adapt the victimology stance. They are hard working people who believe in the power of education for socioeconomic advancement. My father was a Black Caribbean who breathed, ate, & slept education. He came to America in 1938, worked & attended night school. He subsequently worked in the Post Office. He couldn't fathom the lack of ambition & laziness of the Black American. He had stringent standards & if I fell short, he would let me know. Many Black Americans are in the abject conditions they are because......THEY WANT TO BE......
If that is true then how do you explain the poverty rate among whites, which is 10.1%. Are you suggesting that they suffer from victimology as well? Or do you think they simply lack motivation and are lazy? Furthermore, are you suggesting that a capitalist system would continue to function and not collapse if no one was at the bottom to support the pyramid? How could the rich retain power and control if everyone was rich? No one in the history of the world has ever answered these last two questions. Could you be the one?
Thanks for posting your experiences, GM. Although my father was successful, my mother, brother and I were not the recipient of his success. But we moved forward anyway, despite the real poverty we grew up with.
Nevertheless, I give him credit for rising above his humble upbringing. That being said, I have compassion for those who need a hand to lift them up. I really do because I've been there and I saw my mother's struggles to get ahead without any help from anyone. Literally. But I digress as well. Ha!
Great! I can rejoice with anyone who has overcome challenges of their past.
It is true that there are people that take advantage of the system. Thre are also people who don't take advantage of the system. Should those who don't take advantage of the system be villified because some take advantage of the system.
Michelle Obama took advantage of the system by graduating as salutarian of her senior class, going to Harvard and Princeton. Should she be villified.
I think this topic is rising in the forum popularity so more folks are tuning in. We have been discussing for about 4 weeks. We have concluded that there are those who take advantage of the system.
Are you saying Michelle Obama should not have said, "I wake up every morning in a house that was built by slaves."?
To me that sounds like a victor - not a victim.
I didn't say you. I think that's the disadvantage of coming after we have been talking for over a month. I try my best to never indict anyone. I said the problem is the "failure." Not your failure. What happens is, when a person is responding, he/she interjects him/herself and says, "No! I would never do that." Then their assertion is, "That is not being done."
Just because you don't have Zeka doesn't mean that others don't. We are speaking of what we have and are experiencing. It is unfair to say, "I don't do that so it isn't being done."
I don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable in these discussions. I hope everyone will attest to that rather they like what I say or not.
I respect the rights of everyone to communicate their experiences and their hearts. There is no way I would like about my experiences and am certainly speaking from my heart. All white people are not racist and most (am I ok Live) white people are not. ISIS is a small segment of Muslims but they are lethal and impactful.
Jeremiah Wright - I followed all of the information. I had never heard of him before. He disgusted me and I never would have set foot in his church. That has nothing to do with the fact that, even though her ancestors were kidnapped and enslaved, she rose above the stigma of her past.
I lied! I also remember, "When they go low, WE GO HIGH!"
There is a segment of the population that would prefer to complain about her not knowing who her father is, living in the inner city, having children without a husband and getting a welfare check. She has gone where that segment of the population will never go. She is more than a former member of Jeremiah Wright's church, a Democrat and the wife of Barack Obama.
Education and early career
She was inspired to follow her brother to Princeton University,[7] where he graduated in 1983,[33] after which he went on to become a basketball coach at Oregon State University and Brown University.[34] She recalls that some of her teachers in high school tried to dissuade her from applying, that she had been told she was "setting my sights too high".[35][36] She believed that her brother's alumni status may have helped her during the admission process,[37] but she was resolved to demonstrate her own worthiness.[33] She acknowledges that she was overwhelmed when first arriving in first year, attributing this to the fact that neither of her parents had graduated from college,[38] and that she had never spent time on a college campus.[39] The mother of a white roommate reportedly unsuccessfully tried to get her daughter moved because of Michelle's race. She recalls her time at Princeton being the first time she was made more aware of her ethnicity and that despite the willingness of her classmates and teachers to want to understand her, she still felt "like a visitor on campus."[40][41] "I remember being shocked," she says, "by college students who drove BMWs. I didn't even know parents who drove BMWs."[29]
While at Princeton, she got involved with the Third World Center (now known as the Carl A. Fields Center), an academic and cultural group that supported minority students, running their day care center, which also included after school tutoring.[42] She challenged the teaching methodology for French because she felt that it should be more conversational.[43] As part of her requirements for graduation, she wrote a thesis titled Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community.[44][45] She researched her thesis by sending a questionnaire to African American graduates, requesting they specify when and how comfortable they were with their race prior to their enrollment at Princeton and how they felt about it when they were a student and since then. Of the 400 she sent her survey to, only a small number, fewer than 90, responded and her findings did not support her hope that the black alumni would still identity with the African American community, even though they had attended an elite university with all of the advantages that accrues to its graduates.[46] She majored in sociology and minored in African American studies, graduating cum laude with a Bachelor of Arts in 1985.[6][47]
Robinson went on to earn her Juris Doctor (J.D.) degree from Harvard Law School in 1988.[48] By the time she applied for Harvard Law, biographer Bond wrote, her confidence had grown; "This time around, there was no doubt in her mind that she had earned her place".[46] Her faculty mentor at Harvard Law was Charles Ogletree, who has said that she had answered the question that had plagued her throughout Princeton by the time she arrived at Harvard Law, of whether she would remain the product of her parents or keep the identity she had acquired at Princeton, believing that she concluded she could be "both brilliant and black."[49] At Harvard she participated in demonstrations advocating the hiring of professors who were members of minorities[50] and worked for the Harvard Legal Aid Bureau, assisting low-income tenants with housing cases.[51] She is the third First Lady with a postgraduate degree, after her two immediate predecessors, Hillary Clinton and Laura Bush.[52] She would later say her education gave her opportunities beyond what she had ever imagined.[53] In July 2008, she accepted the invitation to become an honorary member of the 100-year-old black sorority Alpha Kappa Alpha, which had no active undergraduate chapter at Princeton when she attended.[54]
Career
Following law school, she was an associate at the Chicago office of the law firm Sidley & Austin, where she first met her future husband. At the firm, she worked on marketing and intellectual property.[6] She continues to hold her law license, but as she no longer needs it for her work, it has been on a voluntary inactive status since 1993.[76][77]
In 1991, she held public sector positions in the Chicago city government as an Assistant to the Mayor, and as Assistant Commissioner of Planning and Development. In 1993, she became Executive Director for the Chicago office of Public Allies, a non-profit organization encouraging young people to work on social issues in nonprofit groups and government agencies.[28] She worked there nearly four years and set fundraising records for the organization that still stood 12 years after she left.[22]
In 1996, Obama served as the Associate Dean of Student Services at the University of Chicago, where she developed the University's Community Service Center.[78] In 2002, she began working for the University of Chicago Hospitals, first as executive director for community affairs and, beginning May 2005, as Vice President for Community and External Affairs.[79] She continued to hold the University of Chicago Hospitals position during the primary campaign, but cut back to part-time in order to spend time with her daughters as well as work for her husband's election;[80] she subsequently took a leave of absence from her job.[81] According to the couple's 2006 income tax return, her salary was $273,618 from the University of Chicago Hospitals, while her husband had a salary of $157,082 from the United States Senate. The Obamas' total income, however, was $991,296, which included $51,200 she earned as a member of the board of directors of TreeHouse Foods, and investments and royalties from his books.[82] Obama reflected that she had never been happier in her life prior to working "to build Public Allies".[83]
Obama served as a salaried board member of TreeHouse Foods, Inc. (NYSE: THS),[84] a major Wal-Mart supplier with which she cut ties immediately after her husband made comments critical of Wal-Mart at an AFL-CIO forum in Trenton, New Jersey, on May 14, 2007.[85] She also served on the board of directors of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs.[86]
Your comment
I just think we need to move forward by acknowledging each others accomplishments.
My response
I missed this one. We talked about the need to be educated on the accomplishments of non-African Americans because it was left out of history books. I'm sorry you were not here because we went pretty deep.
I didn't see that part about history books. Yes, it should be in history books. No question.
TY!
That fact that it was not causes us to continue verbal history and, thanks to the internet, share information on websites.
Michelle Obama spoke of her ancestors and herself. That is the only part of her speech I remember and I agree with it. I can't tell you anything else she talked about. I watched both conventions and was underwhelmed.
My family and I are actually checking to see if we are related. Our Robinson family is so far traced to the S. H. Wilds Plantation in Darlington, South Carolina. Scott Wilds, a descendant of the plantation owner, has been wonderful in helping us put the pieces together. We love Scott and hope we will find that he is also family.
"All ethnicities should be proud of where we came from."
This is something I've never understood. We left wherever we came from because we thought the US would be a better place - what is there to be proud of? We might be proud of putting forth the effort and risk to leave it, or proud of our parents for doing so, but if it was so inferior as to take enormous risk and effort to leave, what is there to be proud of in the place itself?
Why aren't we instead proud of where we are, where we personally have contributed something to making it a better place? Similarly, what is there to be proud of in the color of our skin? That someone else, that we never knew, did great things and had the same color? That's something to be proud of? Why aren't we proud of what we contribute instead of just the color of our skin? I don't get it.
I was referring to our cultures. Each culture has distinct, interesting differences.
As an American mutt I can tell you I have no idea of any culture other than this one to be proud of. Unless you are talking of cultures within this culture. Then, I guess I see that but we have so much more in common than we have differences I don't see any Americans as being part of a separate culture.
And all of that is so easy to say when you have been use to the benefits of being in America all of your life. From the moment your ancestors arrived in America, they had the full benefits of being here, including the choice to come here.
Oh my gosh. You've done a genealogy study on my family. Can I have a copy? I don't' really know much about my ancestors.
That's probably one of the primary reasons people can't discuss race in a productive manner. Best I can say is we all have issues. No one's is more significant than that of another. If I were to complain about something that happened to my family over one hundred and fifty years ago what do you think would happen? Not much more than people looking at me like I was grasping. And, I wouldn't blame them because I'd agree.
My point is that your ancestors were either free or indentured servants which means they made a choice. They may have been poor. I'm sure there were many poor people.
Can you tell me some of the challenges your ancestors met? I'm not saying this sarcastically. I'm interesting in reading about them.
I got your point. I consider my ancestors to be those people who lived in, and built America. That would include your ancestors also. We are all Americans.
I am not implying that we should gloss over history. It should be stared in the face, recognized for what it is and we should learn from it. I, however, see no reason to sympathize with any living individual who takes events which happened over 150 years ago personally to the point of insinuating that I am somehow privileged because other people from over 150 years ago may have freely chosen to make the journey. I could whine and bring up that I am 1/4 Cherokee so you guys are all interlopers who completely ruined my life. But, that's about as pointless as I found your accusation to be.
I think we are combining issued. Maybe because we got new people and are recovering some ground.
1. I have always maintained that we should not hold people today accountable for what their ancestors did.
2. I feel we are responsible for our own actions. I think you agreed.
3. Savvy joined unaware of our detailed conversations from the past.
4. Savvy said (don't remember exact wording) our history is the same (correct me if I'm wrong).
5. I told Savvy (which we have discussed before) the accomplishments of Black people were not included in past history.
a. I did not re-cover that AA history month came about in order to show AA's also contributed to American history.
b. I explained how we are considered 3/5 or 4/5 humans, Jim Crow laws, colored bathrooms, etc., etc.
6. Your comment here is validation for Michelle Obama (YES! slaves did help build America)
a. Since it is true, it should not be considered race baiting
7. Your last post seemed to go back to prior conversation where it seems you forgot or disagree that slaves made contributions, Black people were not trained to be employed and denied employment, and YET many (yes many) Black people have overcome, been educated and had successful careers.
8. Am I wrong?
I have agreed with a lot of what you have said over the course of the pages I've read through and the conversations we have had. I'll be honest, I only first raised an eyebrow when you commented that most (you then made sure to mention that most meant all; but you were politely not saying that) white people were racist when you were in school. I have never been a fan of the word racist but it seemed highly prejudicial to make such a statement.
And then, this And all of that is so easy to say when you have been use to the benefits of being in America all of your life. From the moment your ancestors arrived in America, they had the full benefits of being here, including the choice to come here. Which appears to me to be a 'woe is me' statement on your part. Which, caused my response.
I will reiterate. That is why it is difficult to have a positive discussion over any period of time when it comes to race. There is a 'woe is me' attitude that eventually raises its ugly head. Now, I can certainly sympathize with your personal experiences with racism; up to the point you make it clear all were racist during that time. But, I cannot find anywhere within me the ability to commiserate with someone feeling somehow short changed by events that happened to other people over a hundred years ago.
Don't take this the wrong way but at what point will the black community determine it is time to move on?
For 2nd paragraph, I wasn't trying to be rude. I think it is fair to assume that seems Black people came as slaves that they did not come wiith the same rights as other people. If I'm wrong, I'm open to hear your point of view.
Do you think ALL white people have moved on? Not David Duke, Governor LePage, many twitters - come of which have been banned. If it is just a Black issue, why are white people saying these things June-August, 2016.
With regard to move on, the presidential campaign is highlighting many/some issues with regard to race.
1. David Duke doing robocalls telling white people they need to
A. “We're losing our country. Look at the Super Bowl salute to the Black Panther cop killers."
B. “I'll tell the truth that no other candidate will dare say. Unless massive immigration is stopped now, we'll be outnumbered and outvoted in our own nation."
2. Governor Lepage
A. "The traffickers ... these are guys by the name D-Money, Smoothie, Shifty. These type of guys that come from Connecticut, New York. They come up here, they sell their heroin, then they go back home. Incidentally, half the time they impregnate a young, white girl before they leave,"
B. LePage was talking about the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People leaders and others who criticized him for turning down their invitation to attend ceremonies honoring Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.
"Tell them to kiss my butt." said Lepage
3. Michelle Obama accused of race baiting for this quote
“I wake up every morning in a house that was built by slaves. And I watch my daughters, two beautiful, intelligent black young women, playing with their dogs on the White House lawn...”
Tweet reactions to Michelle Obama's quote (unfortunately I'm unable to copy the racist monikers that go with this.
Prince Monalulu OBE @george_ashby
Fucking move out then and take that chip with you... "Michelle Obama: I Wake Up Each Day In A House Built By Slaves" http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5751d … 593f1453fd …
2:20 PM - 4 Jun 2016
VintageFreak @snjsurfergirl
Let's breed more hate and division, give me a break!
Michelle Obama: I wake up each day in a house built by slaves http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mic … 593f1453fd …
6:06 PM - 5 Jun 2016
Many white people do not want to move on. It has to be an agreement to move on or justice will not prevail.
I suppose the first question I should ask is what does many mean here?
I was commenting on the 'woe is me'attitude. Michelle Obama didn't make any statements such as 'many (but I really mean all) white people are racist.' Hers was more of a 'look how far we have come as a nation' statement.
But, I wasn't talking about conversations on the here and now. We all know we still have work to do as a nation. I am questioning this constant need to complain about events long past. The whine (and yes, it is a whine) that hundreds of years ago someone a black person was related to was ill treated. I care about the history but it doesn't effect you any more than it does me except by an incredibly negligible amount. I'm not going to sympathize. That doesn't make me racist, prejudiced or anything other than a realist.
It's in the past. But this underlying victim mentality sours the conversation. It makes people who do, honestly, care throw up their hands and accept that nothing anyone can do will alleviate it. That this is the way people want to feel. It makes then feel good to feel it and it is exactly where they want to be emotionally.
It also makes people who, honestly, do care accept that it doesn't matter what programs are put into effect, no matter how much money the government shovels toward it the people who want to have this underlying victim mentality will never let it go voluntarily. So, it makes those who care less inclined to continue to do so.
We are officially brother and sister! I started to send you a message to "take a walk and calm down!" YOU thought about me too!
Live you gotta blame it on Savvy! I was just bringing her up to date on what you already heard me regurgitate! I hate hearing myself when I have to repeat it.
I will just tell new people to read through the post for the past 4 weeks.
I forgive you Savvy! Live will have to speak for himself.
I was responding to comments you had made when you hit the reply button to my posts. It would probably have been less confusing to simply respond directly to savvy.
That is true! I thought about that later.
Would you please forgive me?
There is nothing to forgive. We both simply expressed opinions. Nothing wrong with that.
Donald Trump refuses to apologize. You won't let me apologize!
I haven't said you can't apologize. I'm simply saying one is not owed me. Not sure what Donald Trump has to do with it. I don't know that he owes me one either. But, since we are bringing politicians into the discussion I don't know of any apology (truthful and sincere) that Hillary has offered either. Why would you expect more from Trump than his opponent?
I knew it! I started to not put DT in there. Hillary is at least supremely stupid to be an attorney and feel she could have a server in her basement. smh! The boner about "people could die!" is also ridiculous.
I hope we are not getting what we deserve. I'm looking at DT while the Mexican president speaks. He has a silly look on his face. It's obvious these speeches were written before they met today. There is no way they could come up with speeches that long when they just came from a meeting.
I'm thinking of writing in Jeb Bush or or Mike Pence or Tim Kaine.
I don't know .Write ins are probably a waste of good ink. Not enough of us would write in the same candidate to make a difference. I like what I've read about the Libertarian candidate. I'd like to see him in the debates but I'm sure that won't happen. He calls himself a fiscal conservative and a social liberal. I like almost everything I've read from him on the issues. I don't see him as a real Libertarian. I see him as where the Republican party should be right now; if it wasn't for the stranglehold the religious right has placed on it.
I can't get over Weiner. The third time and to include his newborn. The first time would have been perfect to moonwalk out of there.
Gotta feel sorry for his wife. To have to live with that embarrassment. The guy is a piece of work.
Nasty piece of work. She should keep the kid away from him. It was almost like kiddie porn to have the baby lying next to him.
Yes. He doesn't appear to understand how sick his behavior is.
This is such a crazy year. Some are predicting that Libertarian and Green Peace (with real nuts) are siphoning off Trump votes.
Touché?
To often there are many that insist on opening old wounds. Conservatives often think that just because something is not occurring in their immediate environment is cause to believe that it is not happening at all. They stubbornly ignore statistics, enclyclopedic re fences on the topics to avoid acknowleging the undeniable. If I were female or (male), just because I have never been sexually assaulted (rape) doesn't mean that rape in general is not happening and does not warrant attention.
When we get rid of the Duke, La Pages and many more that think like them having megaphones, we would perhaps need, as a group, not to be as defensive about so much.
Things are not the same as they were at the beggining of my over 60 year course. There has been much improvement, nobody denies it. People simply need to understand the true nature of AMERICAN History, recognize the truth behind the struggle of the price paid for progress and commit to the idea that the goal of racial harmony is an ongoing endeavor. The term "post racial" is just a play on words. If we remove the economic impediments at the rate we are going, with all the troublesome oldsters finding their proper places in the cemetaries , we might get to an acceptably harmonious society in couple of generations.
In this day an age, the reality of economics play a larger role. It is trouble being poor regardless of race, color or creed. It comes down to the basics of have verses have not, the haves were once able to use "race" to distract poor whites from what was being stolen from them and who was doing it. It is more difficult to use this strategy to the same effect today, but many die hards still try. Regardless of what conservatives say, much of our political activity from their perspective today has a basis in this kind of deception.
Rush Limbaugh was extravagantly paid for convincing working and lower class whites that their interests were really the same as that of the cEOs and Capitalist class. Add that to Sarah Palin's and Ann Coulters 'real Americans' code words and we can see the continuing agitation from the right.
Basically, same comment - whether geographical area or culture, it was bad enough to leave behind in search of something new. Where is the pride in that (failed, at least for you) culture? Indeed, unless one has made contributions to a culture, where is the pride in the one we live in?
I don't know any other way to say it than I already have. Our ancestors were set apart and called 2/5 or 3/5 human. They could be killed for trying to learn to read. When they were freed, they weren't really free or we wouldn't need the Civil Rights Act of 1964. In that pursuit to remind Black people they were less than there were Jim Crow laws and everything we discussed. The 1960s is really when Black people started to reap the benefit of being in America. The hatred of those who considered themselves superior led to them being forced to treat Black people as deserving of education and jobs. Only then were Black people able to move up the hierarchy.
Michelle did it and she is glad that she rose from all the entrappings of her ancestors being in America. I'm tracing my ancestors, which include 20% non-Africans, because I want to know my history.
This was part of my pastor's online devotion this morning. For Christians on forum, please consider. It would be wonderful if people could appreciate diversity and how it helps to achieve the common goal of unity and progress.
2. God accomplishes unity by using a willing people.
When people come from diverse backgrounds, how can they keep from butting heads? By eagerly pursuing God’s will. As we grow in the Lord, we will see the need of serving God by serving others. We do not need to find a purpose for the church since God spells that out in depth in the Bible. But, we do need to labor for a common goal: glorifying God by building up His church.
We need to jump in not just with our feet, but our heart, too. God uses willing people, those who eagerly seek to use their lives to make a difference.
3rd verse of Star Spangled Banner
(I never heard this before!) Colin Kaepemick and other refust to stand because
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
My interpretation of lines 5 an is: Slaves couldn't hide from the frightening aspect of flight or death. "And it ends with "O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave."
It's ironic that Francis Scott Key reveled in their getting freedom from the British and at the same time reveled that those they enslaved had to be worried about being killed if they tried to get away. It is making more and more sense now that he did not want to stand.
It's a shame. We'll probably have to have a national discussion on it. It may end up that we choose a new anthem.
I hadn't thought about that; however, it really blew my mind to read the 3rd verse. I have been teaching the song for 22 years and explaining line by line with tears in my eyes. The kids loved to sing it although they acted like they didn't.
As I walked them to the door, kids would whisper, "Can I sing it when nobody's listening?" Or they would come to me at lunch and ask to sing to me.
If we have a discussion, that is a good thing! Did you know Columbus kept a daily journal. I found out this morning. I marked it so I could go back to look at it.
Here is another document I suggest you will find interesting. The atrocities of Columbus and the evil Europeans are well documented in this famous historical document: "A Brief Account of the Destruction of the Indies, by Bartolome de las Casas". This should be required reading for all high school students. The fact that Columbus Day is celebrated throughout the United States, in spite of the fact that this miscreant made Ted Bundy look like a misunderstood choir boy, is only further testament to the evil heart of America. It is an outrage that many uneducated Americans will admonish the Indigenous and the African to forget the past. Yet, each year they continue to glorify murder, rape, torture, and thievry on Columbus Day. http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/203 … mages.html
Excerpt from "A Brief Account of the Destruction of the Indies":
"... Which the Spaniards no sooner perceived, but they, mounted on generous Steeds, well weapon'd with Lances and Swords, begin to exercise their bloody Butcheries and Strategems, and overrunning their Cities and Towns, spar'd no Age, or Sex, nay not so much as Women with Child, but ripping up their Bellies, tore them alive in pieces. They laid Wagers among themselves, who should with a Sword at one blow cut, or divide a Man in two; or which of them should decollate or behead a Man, with the greatest dexterity; nay farther, which should sheath his Sword in the Bowels of a Man with the quickest dispatch and expedition.
They snatcht young Babes from the Mothers Breasts, and then dasht out the brains of those innocents against the Rocks; others they cast into Rivers scoffing and jeering them, and call'd upon their Bodies when falling with derision, the true testimony of their Cruelty, to come to them, and inhumanely exposing others to their Merciless Swords, together with the Mothers that gave them Life.
They erected certain Gibbets, large, but low made, so that their feet almost reacht the ground, every one of which was so order'd as to bear Thirteen Persons in Honour and Reverence (as they said blasphemously) of our Redeemer and his Twelve Apostles, under which they made a Fire to burn them to Ashes whilst hanging on them: But those they intended to preserve alive, they dismiss'd, their Hands half cut, and still hanging by the Skin, to carry their Letters missive to those that fly from us and ly sculking on the Mountains, as an exprobation of their flight.
The Lords and Persons of Noble Extract were usually expos'd to this kind of Death; they order'd Gridirons to be placed and supported with wooden Forks, and putting a small Fire under them, these miserable Wretches by degrees and with loud Shreiks and exquisite Torments, at last Expir'd....."
I gotta read this in the morning when I'm coherent. Thanks WB!
Reminds me of the Sand Creek Massacre in "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee".
The lyrics to "America The Beautiful" were written by Katherine Lee Bates, a 33 year old white school teacher in 1893. Bates was born in March 1859, and was only 5 years old when the Sand Creek Massacre occurred. When the massacre at Wounded Knee took place in December of 1890, she was 31 years old. Being a school teacher and well traveled, it is difficult to believe that she was unaware of these crimes against humanity. And it is also hard to believe that she was unaware of Jim Crow. The lynching of black people throughout the United States peaked in 1892. With the trees throughout the south bearing this Strange Fruit throughout her entire adult life, we cannot imagine that she was also unaware of these horrendous crimes that were given so much publicity. Many of these lynchings were treated as a sick spectator sport, and tens of thousands of "good white folk" showed up to enjoy the spectacle of men and women being tortured, burned alive, and hung up by their necks. The teenager Henry Smith was lynched in Paris Texas in February 1893. Bates wrote the lyrics to "America The Beautiful" in the summer of 1893. The Smith lynching was publicized nationwide, and covered by the New York Times. It has been estimated as many as 15,000 people, mostly white, showed up to "enjoy" the spectacle.
But in spite of all of this evil that was taking place throughout her life, Katherine Bates chose to ignore the humanity of the Indigenous and the African, and instead focused on the "bright side of life", which of course is the "white side of life". And so, the song "America the Beautiful" is another perverse glorification of American racism , hypocrisy. and indifference. And she was not unlike many white Americans today who simply ignore the evil around them, while innocent people continue to suffer.
Okay, oKAY, OKAY, you have eloquently elucidated in depth what was negative about American culture, society, & civilization. Now please elucidate what is great, glorious, & right about American culture, society & civilization. There are MANY great, glorious, & right aspects about American culture, society, & civilization. While there are some negative points about American culture, society, & civilization, there are MORE POSITIVE aspects regarding American culture, society, & civilization than there are....negative........Be thankful that you're .....AN AMERICAN, WB!!!!
Two Great Things About America
It appears that you are a true patriot! Often, when people express such a sentiment they are thinking of the so-called " material benefits" of living in the United States as opposed to various Third World Countries. And bundled with those material benefits is a perceived higher standard of living. But it appears we are using a different measuring stick, and the twain shall never meet. There are two things that are great about America, and American culture.
The First Great Thing About America:
Just like all things, America will end one day, and so too the suffering of mankind. On that day the whole world will rejoice, as we will no longer suffer the aspirations of Kings, Queens, Nobility, and an Imperialist Democratic Republic bent on world domination.
The Second Great Thing About America:
If I die before these changes come, America cannot follow me there. For an evil heart cannot dwell in the light of Love, but only where it can be hidden behind flesh and bone.
And these are the things I am thankful for when I think of America. When I think of my freedom, I think of God. It is only God who has created me, given me free will, and thus rendered a free man. When I think of my talents, it is also God who has bestowed these upon me. But when I think of Love, I understand that Love is the greatest blessing of all. On the day I was born my fate was cast to the four winds. But before my feet could hit the ground, the Love of God was manifested in the spirit of those who were to become my Mother and Father.
We need only look toward Syria, Palestine, or Flint Michigan, to understand that there is much work to be done. The glorification of the evil that set these events in motion is only a giant step backwards. Consumerism,and my "standard of living", are not worth so much suffering.
WR wrote
If I die before these changes come, America cannot follow me there. For an evil heart cannot dwell in the light of Love, but only where it can be hidden behind flesh and bone.
Response
WR, when you say "America cannot follow me there.", do you really feel America (which is the people who live here) have evil hearts?
I forget what I'm going to look back for. After I told you I'd go back the next day, my computer crashed with the electricty.
This Just in: Only the victims of the greedy are the good guys in this world.
Good to know.
Ronnie Wrenchbiscuit - are you from a reservation? If so, what is it like? In the ghetto I grew up in, we had all our needs met. By far the biggest problem was black on black crime.
wrenchBiscuit Destroys The Myth of Black on Black Crime
The answer is no. I grew up on a beautiful 200 acre farm amidst a sea of white racists. My parents were active in the Civil Rights Movement. I didn't set foot on a reservation until after serving 6 years in the military. I realize that many are offended when I tell the truth, but many of the people I grew up around were racist, and they just happened to be white. And so there is no other way to describe it, other than to say nothing at all, which is what many would prefer. Apparently it is the adjective they find most offensive.
But they should take their own advice and "get over it", and start dealing with the truth about America. They need to stop telling lies to their children. And when they are not telling a lie, their revisionist recollections have conveniently omitted many of the details that would shatter the myth of good Christian folk coming to America to flee religious persecution and to seek a better life. Yes, many were seeking a better life, but at the expense of those who were here before them, as well as the African slaves they depended on, as many of the evil Invaders were too lazy to do the work themselves.
You mention Black on Black violence, and I noticed you mentioned it in another comment as well. Black on Black violence is another myth that is being promoted by the white racists. Of course, because you grew up in the ghetto witnessing Black on Black crime, you may want to disagree with my argument. But my argument is very easy to verify. Yes, if you say you witnessed Black on Black crime in the ghetto, then I believe that this is true. And so, you might ask: How can Black on Black crime be true,but also be a myth? Please, I will tell you. It is true because it has happened, and because it continues to happen. But the "narrative" of Black on Black violence is the mythological aspect we need to address. Why? Because anyone who lives in a white ghetto will also notice a higher incidence of white on white crime than if they were living in a mixed neighborhood well above the poverty level. And it should come as no big surprise, and neither does it mean that poor white people are inherently violent. It simply means that people are more likely to abuse those who are nearest to them; people living in their own communities. This is common all over the world. If you would go to Bangkok you would find a higher incidence of Thai on Thai violence. And for over 800 years the Irish have suffered the white on white violence of their English oppressors.
But the white racist here in America has recently attempted to paint the black man living in the ghetto as unique among the other races, as if Black on Black crime is just another example of an inferior, aggressive, and violent race of people. It's the same old tired rhetoric that the racists have been using since the antebellum, but only with a new coat of paint. And such violence is not necessarily limited to people living at the poverty level. The redneck farm community I grew up in was, of course, predominantly white. There were relatively only a handful of Black people, and my people had been murdered, or removed from the landscape many years previous. There was not a great amount of poverty as you may have experienced. However, as you might guess, most of the violence was white on white violence. And there were some horrendous crimes that occurred while I was in high school. Also, a majority of the drugs were being sold by white drug dealers to white customers.
Furthermore, as I have indicated, crime occurs even in the best of neighborhoods, but it only makes sense that a greater number of poor people concentrated in a small area are going to witness a higher crime rate. And this happens for various reasons. One often overlooked reason for crime in the inner cities is exploitation, or opportunism. And we need look no further than the police. The FBI warned in 2006 that the KKK had infiltrated police departments across the country. And of course, we know why. It provides them with the opportunity to make lots of money, while perpetuating the misery of the inner city. This is done by facilitating the sale of narcotics, as well as instigating violence and turf wars among various gangs.
Thank you for your answer. I was totally unaware the KKK was infiltrating the police force! I checked it out for myself, and came up with a couple links, though there are many more:
My beloved Los Angeles!
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties … ts-decades
This was in The Oregonian, the paper of the state where I wish to retire!
http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.s … nto_s.html
I saw something similar in one of the final episodes of ROOTS, but I had no idea it was still happening today!
My experience growing up in the Oakland ghetto is that the police tend to be indifferent. After all, why should they care what a bunch of crazy n**s do to each other? Ultimately, no one is putting a gun to their heads and forcing them to attack each other, or live totally immoral lifestyles while damaging their families - even if the KKK were to infiltrate the Oakland police department.
Other races, like Mexicans, don't seem to have the same degree of violence and lack of self-respect. As you may know, Mexicans are Native Americans who were taken over by the Spanish, which is why they speak that language. Surely their losses are as great as the African Americans - and yet you don't see them acting like that. I have personally always envied and admired Mexicans, because of their strong family values. Even their gangsters have a code of ethics - if you leave them alone, they don't mess with you.
Thank you for your answer. I was totally unaware the KKK was infiltrating the police force!
Response
In the south, after freeing of slaves through Jim Crow, the KKK WERE a large part of the police.
Response
Yes, your stereotyping here has racist overtones. Your whole perception of Black people seems to be based on the notorous Oakland ghetto.
a. "bunch of crazy n**s" - So is that what Black people are. Many law-abiding elderly people live in those ghettos and are not able to get out. They own homes there.
b. "Ultimately, no one is putting a gun to their heads and forcing them to attack each other" - ditto above
c. " live totally immoral lifestyles while damaging their families" - ditto above
I believe you wrote this because you were upset about what Wrenchbiscuit said. However, you should not let your anger with one person make you say the very types of things that are of concern.
You wrote
Other races, like Mexicans, don't seem to have the same degree of violence and lack of self-respect.
Response: So you are saying Black people are violent and lack self respect. Does that apply to Credence2? Does it apply to me?
You wrote
As you may know, Mexicans are Native Americans who were taken over by the Spanish, which is why they speak that language. Surely their losses are as great as the African Americans - and yet you don't see them acting like that. I have personally always envied and admired Mexicans, because of their strong family values. Even their gangsters have a code of ethics - if you leave them alone, they don't mess with you.
Response: It is filled with stereotypes. Gangsters with code of ethics? You are naive and influenced by your obviously limited association with Black people..
I apologize for being offensive. I probably shouldn't have responded to this forum, knowing eventually I was going to offend people. This is a very sensitive subject for me; it is my policy not to discuss personally sensitive subjects online.
According to my experience, Oakland is the worst city for blacks. The entire San Francisco Bay Area is not much better. The Los Angeles area is MUCH more mellow, and so are Portland and Seattle.
I will spare you the gruesome details about my immoral family. I will just say that the elderly members who own property there and don't commit crimes live totally paranoid, closed - in lives. One woman was a man - hating prude; I found out later she was molested as a child.
I suppose I should travel more. A white woman from Saginaw told me southern blacks tend to be really sweet and loving; it's the northern urban ones who are more ghetto-like.
Maybe I'd better quit while I'm not too far behind...
I would prefer honesty over decorum. Northern blacks are ghetto like, and the ones living in the South are relatively more gentle? The nastiest towns for me were Detroit and Chicago. If I were discovered to be from the outside, I would be no safer than you would have been. I found New Orleans to have lots of problems and MIAMI is not far behind. I appreciate your candor and I would suggest that you travel more. I live where there are ice cream trucks that come eachSunday for the kids. It is an integrated neighborhood, inhabited by white families and Black ones from the Caribbean. I found San Francisco enlightened compared to other locales in regard to race relations. Seattle is a cool and mellow place as well. I abhor Chicago and Dallas.
As I have been saying, beliefs and experiences produce attitudes which are the foundation of behavior which is why we continue to have many race related problems that cannot be just legislated away.
Most of our race problems are not the overt issues, but subtle ones, where reasoning and attitudes need to be adjusted.
It would an intersting study to compare say East LA, low income Hispanics with Blacks in Compton/South central, where is the crime and violence more intense and why?
Diane, can you shed a little light on this?
I don't know so I did research. It's a lot of info but will be in 2 dumps. Compton is not the same Compton it used to be.
http://maps.latimes.com/neighborhoods/n … ton/crime/
Six-month summary
507 VIOLENT
CRIMES
1,357 PROPERTY
CRIMES
197.5 CRIMES
PER 10,000PEOPLE
• Six-month summaries are based on the latest six months where data are available from all departments, Feb. 1, 2016 to July 31, 2016
• Over the last six months, the rate of 197.5 crimes per 10,000 people is higher than in nearby Paramount, Carson, Willowbrook, Lynwood and East Compton and lower than Rancho Dominguez and West Compton.
• The 2000 population count of 94,384 from the U.S. Census is used to calculate per-capita totals.
East LA
http://maps.latimes.com/neighborhoods/region/eastside/
Crime statistics about East Los Angeles have been withheld because a large percentage of crime reports from the East Los Angeles station area lack addresses and therefore cannot be plotted on a map. This prevents The Times from presenting an accurate picture of what is happening in the neighborhood.
http://www.latimes.com/local/california … story.html
Compton
Compton, circa 2015, is far from the Compton of the 1980s and early to mid-'90s.
Even as it still struggles with poverty and unemployment, crime — especially homicides — has plummeted. Large retailers that once shunned the city have moved in. Even the demographics have changed, with Latinos now making up about two-thirds of the city.
I will have to sift through the info that you provided. I am delighted to hear that the more serious crimes have been reduced in the area. I guess that a lot has happened since "Boys in the Hood". Thanks!!
I'm sure Boys in the Hood brought some pride to Compton. Straight from the Hood brought a greater since of pride, especially with form NWA members going on to successful careers.
When neighborhoods are bad it is becauses they are terrorized. Can you imagine living in places taken over by ISIS?
Crime has gone down in Los Angeles. It may be hard to believe because a death is a death If you experience one, it is devastating whether 5000 died or your baby brother died.
It has to do something to the psche to be a victim but yet characterized as a criminal/perpetrator. There are more good people in the ghetto and bad. Actually corrupt city officials can make a bad situation worse by siphoning off money for their personal use. That makes me sick!
You know Diane, it is just because there are a lot of good people in the ghetto makes me believe that if most are presented with a viable path out, most would take it.
Bernie Sanders is a visionary in the idea of free or very low cost college or trade school opportunities for those low income individuals and families who want to change their lives and the lives of their children permanently. If we have billions of R & d money to pay for planes that don't fly, why not invest in people? The amount of sheer waste and inefficiency in the federal government will astound you. Conservatives should be happy to support a concept that can get people off from the lifetime dependency track. The scriptures say that there will always be poor among us, but there is no harm in reducing that number. It could be very similar to the GI bill, maybe requiring some public service for conservatives who always insist on 'tit for tat', never appreciating the long term benefits of an investment. It makes much more sense than asking people to pull themselves up by bootstraps, when they have no boots. The availability of education for all levels the playing field so we do not continue to move this society in a feudalistic direction. As we know, the 'Right' has always had it in for public education ' as creating just that much more insolent rabble"
Sorry that I have digressed a bit. If low income people can compete, there is no reason to believe that ghettos have to continue to be a part of the American story.
I haven't answered yet because I'm marinading. It is such a complicated problem. Answer coming soon.
I'm back!!! Forgive me if I always have to tell stories or current events. It's part of my dna.
I am now investing in the 3rd generation of my family. My great nephew graduated from high school in May. About a month ago he left home and moved in with his mother's sister and brother (also my niece and nephew).
My niece has had problems with him since he was terrible 2. He's not a thug. Incidentally, his mom and step father are police officers.
My niece says he is selfish and unappreciative like his daddy. My non-vocal response: You picked him! It is unfair to tell Qson he's like his dad when Qmom was enamored with this violent guy.
Investment
1. I told Qson that I would pay his car insurance if he would go to college. $112 per month.
2. I called Qmom to tell her I would pay the insurance. She said he hadn't paid her for the car $700.
3. Qson was pre-enrolled in college but missed the 1st week. He probably started going because he wanted the car.
4. Qson lost his scholarship paperwork and needed books. Long story made short. I've spent $742 on books.
I'm investing in him because he is at a critical point where he can go right or to the streets. I want to make sure he goes right. I'm sure I'm going to be out of a lot more before this semester is over; however, the Lord provides.
I have a friend who has no children. She is raising her great nephew. One day, the great nephew's brother said, "Can I come?" NOW my friend is raising her great nephew AND his brother.
I have another friend. The one whose son shot himself in the head. She raised a great niece and nephew, rescuing them from bad parenting.
Children need to know that they are loved, unconditionally, and they need discipline. When they see stability, get support, and are encouraged to dream, they have a good chance of succeeding.
This week I was contacted on FB by girls I taught 15 years ago. The school was in South Central LA (the ghetto). They spent every free moment in my room. They were my first quartet. They are all doing well and I can't wait to have a girl night with them.
If it isn't planted, how will it grow.
Nobody had to bribe me to go to college. It was that or spend the rest of my life flipping burgers. The problem is that teens and young adults are dumb by nature. It takes experience to know what you must do and have the discipline to stay the course. I was not so much gifted with foresight beyond my years at 18. I saw my father come home in suits and ties, so I had a role model that we all need not be consigned to menial labor and that education was a viable way out.
While you can be as dumb as a stump at 18, by 25 most young people realize that they are well outof high school and life becomes serious when they realize that they need more money than the burger bar can pay them. Being 'cool' is not relevant anymore, because all of your peers have move up, away or descended into despair. That is probably the best time to make free or low cost education available, as they need not ruin their whole lives because they made one mistake.
I will bet you that your young charge would have a different attitude, if he could appreciate what is at stake.
True. I'm trying to remind him without being a nag. His mom spoiled him, trying to make up for his creep dad.
What type of work did your father do?
He started his own real estate firm during the 1960's. He was breaking new ground as the first Black real estate broker that had access to sales and listings over the entire Denver real estate market rather than being consigned to do business in only the Black neighborhood. That was a big deal back then.
Hmmm! Colorado had those deep south problems?
Charles Bussey was the 1st Black police officer. Black officers could not arrest white people.
No, it has never been as virulent and as entrenched as it was during that same period in the South. The Black population of Denver was relatively small when compared with comparably sized cities to the east.
It had been really all 'south', it was that some areas of the country were less hostile than others. The KKK played prominantly in COLORADO politics during the 1920s and 1930s. There were covenants keeping Black families out of certain neighborhoods into the 1940s and much of the 1950's. It is just that when beneficial changes finally came along during the 1960's ,Denver, without a history of racial tension to the extent of cities to the East and South, was prepared to institute and embrace the changes earlier.
My dearest Aunt, born in 1899, told us much of the story of Denver as she moved there from Virginia in 1940. Boy, the stories and experiences she shared with us about another era. She actually met the renown educator Booker T. Washington in 1911, as a little girl.
I can still hear her old rallying cry, "gotta use your head for something else besides a hat rack". You don't see many of those anymore.
I love those old proverbs. I use to say some to my students and they would just laugh or look at me with a blank stare if they couldn't relate.
This is relevant to what we are discussing.
“Disregard for the past will never do us any good. Without it we cannot know truly who we are.”
― Syd Moore
BTW, I read the biography on Charles Bussey and his prominent stature in Arkansas history. Thanks, I learn something new everyday.
The street he lived on was named after him. Unfortunately, the neighborhood has gone down. I have guilt about leaving. In hindsight, when white people were moving out, educated Black people should have stayed to make sure the city remained viable for the elderly and encouraged the youth to pursue excellence. Then the influx of drugs arrived from California.
Have you read about Daisy Bates. She published a paper, was the most prominent woman in the Civil Rights Movement, and facilitated the Little Rock 9 in integrating Central High School.
I am familiar with Daisy Bates, being introduced to her and her role as part of "Little Rock 9" docudramas.
You have been pretty active. I've got to meet you.
Sorry, I missed this, Diane, if Central Florida is in your future travel plans, drop me a line. All things considered, there are worse places to live.
will do. Let me know if you come to San Bernardino or LA county.
Boyle Park (east LA is on the list Compton is not) The website is shown below if you want to look at it.
15 Areas in Los Angeles where you might get shot
15. Green Meadows
The name itself might sound welcoming, but don’t be confused with the Green Meadows neighborhood, because it’s pretty rough. Just north of Compton, stats show that it is the 10th most deadly neighborhood of all the 270 counties in Los Angeles, averaging 2.75 killings per 10,000 people and 4.04 killings every square mile. With most coming from gunshots, Green Meadows isn’t the best place for someone to find themselves.
9. Leimert Park
With 99 violent crimes reported over a six-month timeframe, L.A.’s Leimert Park has a per capita crime rate of 80.4, making this an area that is as scary and heavily-populated with crime as any in the city. Located in the central area of Los Angeles, it is surrounded by a number of other neighborhoods that keep those who live and visit on edge.
7. Boyle Heights
Like a few others on this list, Boyle Heights section of the city has been littered with a few gangs, with Hispanic gangs being mostly prominent in the neighborhood. Situated just east of the L.A. river, Boyle Heights has a bevy of gangs that contribute to most of the violent crimes each month and year.
6. Central Los Angeles/Atwater Village
A highly populated area for a number of different gangs in the city, Atwater Village has reported about 82 criminal incidents on average per month, making it an area that should try to be avoided when necessary, especially with as much gang activity and related crime from those specific groups.
4. Downtown Los Angeles/Koreatown
Located just east of Hollywood, once people find their way into the central area of Los Angeles and on the outskirts of Koreatown, the crime rate becomes a lot more prominent. With 102 average violent crimes over a monthly period, this isn’t for the feint of heart to drive through or stop in.
Read more at http://housely.com/15-areas-los-angeles … MCidr5s.99
Read more at http://housely.com/15-areas-los-angeles … MCidr5s.99
If there were textbooks that details these accountings, they would have to be sanitized or taught at the college level. Perhaps there shold be diverse groups of people writing history texts so they could provide balance at the appropriate age level.
I'm sorry. I have to catch up on posts from the past two days. Power outage for the whole house ended up being a blackout in the room with my computer hub. During that time I have been stressed to the max and threw my back out.
I will go back to read as many post as I can!
I'm wondering if Donald Trump's campaign new Pastor Michael Mark Burns was a super fraud. The information was investigated as soon as Burns spoke at the RNC. A Republican KA Psi was watching the broadcast and quickly discovered extended fraud. Reports were out the 2nd week of July but I first saw it today.
What would make this Black man tell these Burger King Whoppers?
Perp Alert!!!!! Meet The Trump Supporting Pastor Who Was Busted For Klaiming Kappa Alpha Psi
http://bossip.com/1336177/perp-alert-me … alpha-psi/
Trump backer apologizes for blackface tweet, but stands by message
http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/29/politics/ … oon-trump/
Notice the gray contacts
Here's one of the cases where a white kid was shot and killed.
South Carolina Cop Who Killed Unarmed Teen Is Fired
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sou … ed-n642716
Hi Diane, you should read my hub: How To Improve Race Relations (http://hubpages.com/education/How-To-Im … -Relations). I think we need to do that in order to talk productively, reasonably and respectfully about race issues.
Racism and/or slavery is a mislead topic and a lot of people do not want to speak on it because it’s “over” and the idea that something so harmful was the identity of this nation; makes one regret their connection. Second, the question of, should Michele Obama have mentioned the White House being built by slaves; was ignorant. The house that she lives in was not built by slaves- sure the original one was but, the walls she walk down, the floors she stands on, was not built by slaves. That house was reconstructed before, during or directly after President Truman. There is no way that she can have feelings about a house that basically, no longer exist.
Slavery can never be forgotten and if families practice, being a family and celebrating their history, one would teach this to their children. We should not have a Black History Month because it just becomes propaganda. Should be taught in school- on so many levels it becomes redundant. Students are required in February, to write a research paper on a famous Black person but, never required to do a research paper on a famous White person; Black History month is racist by its definition. We need to stop discussing race and/or slavery as a nation.
It seems like one never takes the time, to identify that majority of those living on earth now; never took part in the act of or the assistance of racism or slavery. It has continued to be a divide between race and no one truly "understand" why we are still divided? Just the discussion of this however; continues to associate us with racism and slavery. At no point can one say this is not an issue/problem in this nation however; it’s not something that can be won via talking and marching and “bringing it to people's attention.” As someone else said in a previous comment; if you live and breathe in America, of course you see racism and nothing else can prove otherwise.
White people are constantly walking around trying to make sure they are not being racist; Black people are walking around trying to make sure they don't take everything as being racist; and all other race’s, in this country, are standing around, trying to figure out when this topic, will no longer consume their TV's, internet or life. Racism is a symptom of the problem and if there is one thing we can all agree on, is if it’s broke, fix it; we need to fix our Government. We need to fix “the powers that be”; they are who contribute to the systems of racism and slavery. Ultimately it’s not about race, money, sexuality, religion; it’s about control and “the greater good”. If we attack the root problem- things can then be reconstructed. That is truly the only way; the trickle down system works.
Furthermore; thank you for bringing this up, in this forum; I am always attacked and a lot of places don’t give enough space. We need to identify the cause of it all and implement changes from the top to the bottom, things will then be fixed or at least truly attacked and not just used as propaganda. Not to be used as a tool to, get people to vote for you as the President. Oh this guy marched with Martin Luther King Jr; he is always in support of Black people. The ENTIRE IDEA OF THIS MOMENT-MENTIONED in relevance to running for President; is shameful. Of course you marched with Martin Luther, for freedom. Praising someone for doing what’s right makes no sense. The topic should be why no one else is walking that battle. Kids, heck adults don’t get toys or snacks for brushing your teeth; do you want teeth, sure; so brush um. If you’re not racist; march for freedom- you don’t get a treat! The fact that it’s a marketing tool (to “support” Black people) is hypocritical, when you turn around and say- racism is over.
No such thing as race. Genetically there are only small cosmetic differences. We can all produce offspring together. There is no separate species of human. We're all just a species of ape called humans.
We all need to get that in to our thick skulls. And I mean all. Hate is stupid and self destructive .
Over a thousand posts on this thread and you come in with that now?
We could have saved so much time and trouble if you'd just piped in sooner.
Cosmetic and behavioral differences are what we are discussing. Why we would be discussing differences if they did not exist? Perhaps we are ONLY discussing differences and the various reactions to them. You certainly cannot say there are no differences!
In my mind the the real problem is stingy-ness. We need to allow others to behave / live as they wish within the precepts of the golden rule / law.
Why is this so hard to do in race/cultural relations? Why is this so hard to do in marriages, in families, in schools, in work, in business … Thats the question, I would say.
Some words come to mind: fear, expectation, prejudice, mostly negative reactions based on emotions based on ignorance …
Knowledge and understanding helps us combat ignorance and non-acceptance of one another. This thread is helpful toward that end and the original question is a good one.
WrenchBiscuit, Have you told us about what is happening in the Dakotas?
I briefly described what we are discussing and gave him brief comments from different ones. He was quite interested in you. Today he asked if you have mentioned anything about what's happening in the Dakotas.
Largest Native American Protest in history
http://www.dinosmark.com/2016/09/the-la … t-now.html
I added link my friend sent me.
Yes, of course I have been following it. The video link I posted here several days ago was a commentary about this controversy. This is big news. Obama just overturned a federal judges ruling to let the evil Capitalists continue with the devil's work.
It is a great day for The People! The People have stood together in solidarity on this issue, and there is more to come. Many whites have taken up the cause as well. This is an issue that affects everyone, and these companies should not only be stopped from destroying the environment, but the CEO's of these companies, and all of their upper management should be imprisoned for crimes against humanity, as they are the lowest common denominator, along with all of the corrupt Judges they have in their greedy pockets.
Surely everyone sees racist websites and comments on the internet
Current day racism - why does it exist
Most Hateful and Racist Websites http://upli.st/l/most-racist-websites
Huffington Post http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/07/0 … wn-bigots/
Examples of some of the racism exposed include people who have referred to Obama as an “ass wipe monkey,” and references to white people supposedly being the real victims of slavery.
Shannon Sharpe speaks in support of Colin Kaopernick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4BG0yOAnMA
Over the last week I have been really busy: drove 200 over 2 days to pick my friends up to go to Allyson Felix's 97 year old grand mother's funeral in LA.
Barb, retired Human Resources Director for LA County Bar, and I were discussing current issues of which race was one. It was a compelling conversation.
Barbara asked me to define racism. I gave her examples. She believes and convinces me that "racism as done in the past no longer exist." Reason: In the past racism was denial of rights, Jim Crow, systemic policies and procedures that kept Black people (or whatever group) from access and opportunities provided to white people.
Barbara suggested that what happens is "bigotry." In our discussions I said that racism I see is a matter of individual hearts. It actually makes more sense to say that it is bigotry. I respect her opinion because of her advanced degrees in human resources and counseling.
Bigotry - a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
Racism
Racism often takes the form of social actions, practices or beliefs, or political systems that consider different races to be ranked as inherently superior or inferior to each other, based on presumed shared inheritable traits, abilities, or qualities. It may also hold that members of different races should be treated differently.
Sooooooo, when people troll websites to make racist statements, they are being bigots?
If a racial or ethnic group is not allowed to use the internet, that is racism?
When we step back and look at it, it makes sense.
What do you guys think?
No, I strongly disagree with your friend, and so does the FBI. The FBI released a report in 2006 warning that police departments across the U.S. had been infiltrated by the KKK. Also, recently the hacker group Anonymous announced it was releasing the names of police officers throughout the U.S. who were members of the KLAN. These people are not common bigots. They have an agenda, and that agenda is to destroy the black race in America. They have made no secret of this over the years, and they have become very sophisticated in their methods. Let us not be deceived simply because we do not see them burning crosses everyday.
Furthermore, Planned Parenthood, was founded by a racist witch named Margaret Sanger. Look at what the Americans did to my people. They murdered 100 million. They purposely reduced our numbers so that we would no longer be a threat. This is their plan for the black race here in the United States. And this has always been the plan of the white racists.
According to blackgenocide.org:
"Planned Parenthood is the largest abortion provider in America. 78% of their clinics are in minority communities. Blacks make up 12% of the population, but 35% of the abortions in America. Are we being targeted? Isn't that genocide? We are the only minority in America that is on the decline in population. If the current trend continues, by 2038 the black vote will be insignificant. Did you know that the founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, was a devout racist who created the Negro Project designed to sterilize unknowing black women and others she deemed as undesirables of society? The founder of Planned Parenthood said, "Colored people are like human weeds and are to be exterminated." Is her vision being fulfilled today?"
Here are some more of her quotes:
"The most merciful thing that the large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."
"We should apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is tainted, or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring."
"We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."
People who suggest that abortion is a choice are the same people who might suggest that smoking cigarettes is a choice for teenagers. But life is not so black and white.Tobacco companies prey on teenagers because they can more easily be influenced and manipulated. Everyone knows how children can be influenced. No, they have not gone directly to teens, like some kind of a drug pusher and said "Here kids, smoke these!" But their methods of marketing and manipulation are more insidious. Marketing and availability is the key, and they understand that the easier the access, the more new lifetime customers they are going to hook. It is the same with abortion clinics, and the propaganda they distribute in the black communities. They indirectly prey on teenage girls, as these are the ones most likely to experience unwanted pregnancies. There are many people seeking to adopt children of all races and nationalities, but Planned Parenthood promotes death over life in the black communities.
They know that if the black population gets out of control their system of white supremacy is threatened. Think about it for a moment. In all of the professions where doors have been opened to black people what do we see? We do not see that they only succeed, but often they excel and dominate. The white racist cannot allow this to get out of control. Many people talk about an impending race war, but I am here to tell you that we are right in the middle of it.
The best thing the black race in the United States could do right now is to start having as many babies as possible. And to get Planned Parenthood out of the black community A.S.A.P.. The black community does not have the luxury to wait until they gain economic parity with whites before increasing the birth rate. If the black people do not rapidly increase their numbers they will never have the political muscle to achieve any real economic parity.
" The best thing the black race could do right now would be to start having as many black babies as possible "
"People who suggest abortion is a choice are the same people who ..... .............."
"They know that if the black population gets out of control ........"
Wrenchbisket , you've really got to get out more , stop hiding behind the blue screen and experience real life , The Black race , like most races in America right now , including the white race , is in trouble BECAUSE of over breeding , look at your own Indian reservations , look in the ghetto's of Baltimore , Chicago , Philly , LA. , for god's sake look at Beverly hills even or Sturbridge Conn. and Chappaquiddick Ma.
And your solution? , "Have more babies "........ would that also include more of the unwanted babies ? Would that include bringing fathers back home by forced march , those who've abandoned family life by a record percentage of half in the white race alone and seventy percent in black families? You are aware aren't you , that over half of marriages in America fail ? I just love it when people of supposed intellectual origins , actually suggest and promote a policy to continue digging the hole deeper , deeper , deeper until ...............oh forget it ! Why don't you sign up for the Dept of Social Services- Family Counseling ? No wait , how about you just stop with the great idea's . You might actually influence someone to try .
Today you will learn a new phrase: "Population Density". Just as I have enlightened many others who have gone astray, I am here to help you understand. Behold the superior intellect! When you are referring to black populations in the inner cities, what you are referring to is "population density". This does not reflect the overall population. And your remark about the native population is bringing down the house. Here, I have provided for your convenience the "Cold Hard Truth" in 4 parts. The charts I provide reveal population distribution in the United States by race. As anyone can see from the numbers, your previous commentary has no merit whatsoever. After reviewing the charts, please explain how minorities are making too many babies. I understand that life in Mayberry can be quite hectic, but the world is waiting for your response.
Info courtesy of kff.org
Thanks WR! I've not seen these demographics.
RW - I believe those statistics are way off. Check out this link:. http://www.iad.state.nm.us/history.html
I was in New Mexico for awhile, and can vouch for this.
The website providing the chart explains: "N/A: Estimates with relative standard errors greater than 30% are not provided." Below, I have provided information on Standard Errors. But the exact number is irrelevant to the argument anyway.
Even if 10% is spot on accurate, it still carries no political weight in the state of New Mexico. Furthermore, when they are ready to do so, it will be a lot easier for the white racists to reduce a population of 10% to 0%, than to begin their evil deed with a population of 90%. If the Black and the Indigenous are ever going to get out of this mess, then it is imperative that they at least collectively surpass the annual birth rate of the white majority for a sustained period of time. It is interesting to note that weapons of war such as guns, missiles, swords, bullets and knives are all phallic symbols. And it is ironic that the original phallic symbol will be the one that ultimately saves us from extinction. And this is a great teaching. Everything goes back to God.
Why do we have Standard Errors?
Estimates from the Labour Force Survey (LFS) are based on information collected from people in a sample of dwellings, rather than all dwellings. Hence the estimates produced may differ from those that would have been produced if the entire population had been included in the survey. The most common measure of the likely difference (or 'sampling error') is the Standard Error (SE).
Importance of Standard Errors
It is important to consider the Standard Error when using LFS estimates as it affects the accuracy of the estimates and, therefore, the importance that can be placed on the interpretations drawn from the data.
Standard Error versus Relative Standard Error
The Standard Error measure indicates the extent to which a survey estimate is likely to deviate from the true population and is expressed as a number. The Relative Standard Error (RSE) is the standard error expressed as a fraction of the estimate and is usually displayed as a percentage. Estimates with a RSE of 25% or greater are subject to high sampling error and should be used with caution.
The reliability of estimates can also be assessed in terms of a confidence interval. Confidence intervals represent the range in which the population value is likely to lie. They are constructed using the estimate of the population value and its associated standard error. For example, there is approximately a 95% chance (i.e. 19 chances in 20) that the population value lies within two standard errors of the estimates, so the 95% confidence interval is equal to the estimate plus or minus two standard errors.
Example
The example below demonstrates how each of the reliability measures can be calculated and interpreted:
Standard Error
Employed persons, November 2009
Estimate = 10,848,800
The standard error can be obtained from Labour Force Survey Standard Errors, datacube, Oct 2009 (cat.no. 6298.0.55.001)
Standard Error (SE) = 37,600
Relative Standard Error (RSE)
RSE = 100 x SE / estimate
RSE (employed persons in November 2009) = 0.3%
Since the RSE on the estimate of 10,848,800 is less than 25%, the estimate of employed persons can be considered reliable enough for general use.
95% Confidence Interval
Estimate plus or minus 2 x SE
Upper limit of the interval = 10,848,800 + (2 x 37,600) = 10,924,000.
Lower limit of the interval = 10,848,800 - (2 x 37,600) = 10,773,500.
95% Confidence = 10,773,500 to 10,924,000.
It can, therefore, be considered with 95% reliability that the true value of employed persons is between 10,773,500 to 10,924,000.
Good point about blacks and Native Americans increasing their birth rates. What's even more important is QUALITY, as well as quantity. The last thing we need is a bunch of crack babies growing up to be thugs!
It is just another one of those faux pas? Crack babbies and thugs that result from a higher black or indiginous AMERICAN birthrate are glaring stereotypes. Again, our racial stress is about attitudes, some of which we don't even recognize as such. So many of these 'attitudes' are more widely held than you would think, and can reveal itself in a typical conversation.
Today a disabled Black man was sitting in the car waiting for his son to get out of school. The police were looking for someone else (not him). Then shot him 4 times. They said he had a gun in the car. Doesn't 2nd Amendment apply for cars - they must be in the open?
Have you got the link to that story, Diane?
Some states still require permits to be allowed to carry firearms outside the home. We will have to weigh in with some of our firearm enthusiasts to be sure.
I need to better assess the situation before I can render a judgement.
http://www.theroot.com/articles/news/20 … n-the-car/
It's on CNN too
"It is just another one of those faux pas? Crack babbies and thugs that result from a higher black or indiginous AMERICAN birthrate are glaring stereotypes. Again, our racial stress is about attitudes, some of which we don't even recognize as such. So many of these 'attitudes' are more widely held than you would think, and can reveal itself in a typical conversation."
Credence2 - what is so racist about wanting the best for your children, and caring about the legacy you pass on?
WR, what Black people need to do is become more educated. My dad used to say, "Get yourself a good education. No one can take that from you." Intelligence makes the haters hate!
Without a vision for success, it is morally incomprehensible to breed to increase numbers. I barely have enough to help my family as it is. My focus is education and significance.
Diane,
How does this case fit in to your analysis?
After the shooting, Crutcher could be seen lying on the side of the road, blood pooling around his body, for nearly two minutes before anyone checked on him. When asked why police did not provide immediate assistance, MacKenzie said: “I don’t know that we have protocol on how to render aid to people.”
What type explanation is that? Every law enforcement officer should be prepared to render aid. Is the Tulsa police the equivalent of the Keystone Cops?
Was the man just in a broken down vehicle? No one mentions in the article what that was a source of suspicion for police. You are not a criminal for having your vehicle malfunction on the side of the road. There may be more info that has yet to be revealed, but this again sounds like a tragic shooting that is not justified.
See article link attached
https://www.yahoo.com/news/video-shows- … 24866.html
I have questions about what I was seeing and what I heard.
1. Guy walking normally with hands in the hair yet
2. Offiicers say he was not complying BUT
3. I didn't hear anyone tell him to lie on the ground
4. Why was he walking to his car? To get ID?
5. At what point did he get out of the car and for what reason
6. Fear? when I saw 4/5 officers walking closely behind him????
7. Fear or bigotry AND
8. If no procedures are in place, that is a systemic deficiency (assuming every situation would be like that)
9. He looks like a bad dude? Why? Because he is large and Black - sure enough bigotry
You know I'm not dodging your question. I can't answer with info given.
No, you are not dodging the questions, all the facts may not be in. Candidate Clinton has commented on this matter.
When I think about this, how much threat was there toward the officers? You have three officers following one man, what threat can the man pose that three persons could not prepare for?
Conservatives always complain about 'tying the hands of the police', but based upon what appears to be an abuse of discretion shown by the officers in this case, I say lets bind the hands even more tightly.
And, when I hear the account of the mass muderer, Dylan Roof, treated to a Whopper at Burger King on his way jail, I have to pause.
I propose to remove much more of the discretion from the action of law enforcement officer in favor of process and procedure that directs them as to how these encounters with civilians are to be handled. The cameras must always be in operation.
Based on comments from the police at the scene, bigotry and bias play a role, with my main theme of 'attitude' problems being the biggest denigrators of positive race relations, today.
I also do not like the '6 of one or half a dozen of the other' attitude when Conservative like to contrast unjustfied shootings by law enforcement officers, with criminal homicides in the Black community, dead bodies are dead bodies, are dead bodies, regardless of the source attitude. They are not the same. That 'attitude' ticks me off.
Leaving victims without medical attention or the benefit of the attempt to render the same is not something that one would do with a stray dog.
Conservatives tick me off as they ignore the issue entirety, providing a plethora of excuses why it is not reasonable to ask Municipal police departments to review their procedures and personnel with a goal of making these tragic shooting less likely. Instead, bigotry directs the adversary to shoot the messenger rather than consider the message.
I just read a little more.
He was having car problems. His car was in the street with the motor running. He was walking toward it. I don't know at what point the police got involved.
I can't wait until more details are in.
I can't support Mike Brown's situation. He was cockey and stupid.
I'm glad Angela Corey was voted out of office. It was criminal how the jury was contaminated and how Trayvon Martin was villified. Someone implied that he bought things to make a drug cocktail. It reminds me of the "Wilding" thing that was made up against the Black guys who spent time for raping the woman in New York. It was suppose to be a Black "thing." Also the recent thing about knocking people out. I can't remember what it is supposed to be called.
Media picks up on these verbal thoughts of the police and then repeat it over and over. This gives falsehoods way to much probability.
BTW, it is way more bipartisan to believe that the dead Black person was guilty. Often, the conviction is based on passed history or something to justify that the person was not good for society.
Michael Brown's case is a bit more involved. There is no crime in being cocky and stupid. Police officers that are unreasonably subceptible to fear and panic are in the wrong profession. That is unfortunately true of too many white officers on the beat in predominantly Black neighborhoods. I did not like the fact that he too received no medical attention with his body allowed to lie in the street for hours.
I can never buy the rationale and excuse the conservative right uses to justify the Treyvon Martin shooting.
What angers me about Michael Brown's stupidity is the set up that I got from his mom. He was going to be the first one in the family to go to college, yada, yada, yada. Then to see how he acted in the store. The guy with him, AT LEAST, put what Michael had placed in his hand back.
Then Michael Brown assaulted the store worker. It was known all over town that the police gave tickets for walking in the street.
It was very arrogant of him to walk in the street when the officer kept telling him to get out of the street. He should have gotten his big annie sue sue out of the street. Situations like this deflect from the all of the very legitimate cases.
Each case needs to be looked at individually. Right now I'm concerned about the disabled guy that was reading a book, waiting for his kids. It looks like THERE WAS NO BOOK!! If he had a gun, WHY get out of the car with it?
Credence, I'm not screamming when I write in caps. I am so frustrated. There can be four very clear examples of police misconduct and then comes one where a person does some really stupid stuff. While it doesn't justify the person being killed it really makes it unclear about whether or not the officer used good judgement.
I don't doubt there might have been some slaves and indentured Irish servants involved in the construction of the White House. People seem to ignore the fact slavery was already a thriving industry in Africa long before Columbus was even born and it is still practiced on that dark continent today.
The slave-traders actually did these people a major favor relocating them to England, Spain and the Americas. That's the reality of it.
Before responding, I encourage everyone to read what is on Prepper's profile page. It puts his comments into perspective. Donald Trump finally had to spit the truth out and he blamed the conspiracy on Hillary Clinton.
This is classic bigotry.
I just hope somebody reads my profile & lone hub about the Titanic(RMS Olympic). Donald Trump donated a lot to BHO's 2008 campaign and spurred many of his wealthy friends to do likewise.
It was Bill Clinton who referred to BHO in 2008 as "that non-citizen".
Any "birther" worth his salt knows very well it WAS Hillary, who also in 2008, hired attorney Phillip Berg to uncover the truth about BHO's birth and illegality.
I can definitely understand your disappointment. We finally get an almost half-black president and he turns out to be illegal. And FYI in two different GOP Presidential primaries I voted for the black candidate Alan Keyes & Dr Ben Carson.
Prepper, we have continued this discussion over at least 6 weeks. You don't know anything about me or my thoughts.
We are attempting to have a "productive" discussion on race. This is not about taunting people.
Diane you have been a Christian a little longer than I have(Feb'79) so you have probably been expecting to be "Raptured" too. We can expect that blessed event any day now. With all your education you must have at some point happened upon the definition of "natural born Citizen". That is the first indication BHO is the man of lawlessness predicted in our Bible. If you prefer I will no longer inject truths that don't agree with yours I will refrain and save you the aggravation.
The Lord may come tonight or in 20 years or one of us may die tonight. We should be found faithful in and out of season to give reaon for the Hope that lies within us.
God has two basic commandments:
1. Love the Lord your God with all your hearts, soul and strength AND
2. Love thy neighbor as thyself.
#2 can easily trip us up.
What if, after leaving the White House, Obama turned around and said he in fact was born in Kenya and was a devout Shi'ite Muslim? It would be too late to impeach him then! LOL!!!
Sometime soon this Kenyan-born, gay, commie, Moslem, son-of-a-pornstar, less than half-black usurper will become head of the UN & king of the world. I expect Shotgun Joe Biden will be suddenly thrust into the presidency & nominate that carpet-muncher Hillary our very first female VP. That will be the consolation prize for that murderous witch. Get ready!
You might be interested in some YouTube videos titled "Dreams from My Real Father: A Story of Reds and Deception". - Cheers!
Just because registered-communist pedophile Frank Marshall Davis was most likely BHO's biological father has no effect on the Kenyan birth or Barack Senior providing his(?) son status as a British Subject.
Good point, one I hadn't considered. Ty!
A picture speaks a thousand words.
Trump being given the Ellis Island Award in 1989 for contributing to the conditions of inner city black youths, standing alongside Muhammad Ali and Rosa Parks.
I think it is difficult for people to speak about racial issues because they fear the unknown. In some areas, people are only used to seeing white people or indians. (Some of them were slaves, too, especially women) But it takes a person with moral values to overlook the color of one's skin. In my state (Maine) we have a bigot for a Governor. He fears immigrants, although he just blames them for all the crimes.
Ridiculous......, The governor of Maine is protecting his constituents , I wish the Gov. of Vermont would do the same ! Racism is and always has been a double edged sword , NOT MANY HERE in these forums can even begin to comprehend that ! Especially those who go about defending the riots in a place like Charlotte !
Well, hold on to your hat because there is more to come. After 500 years of oppression, people are starting to wake up and open their eyes to what's really going on. I find it remarkable that you decry the riot in North Carolina, but you have said nary a word about the proxy war started by the U.S. in Syria in 2011; a war that has killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians, many of them children. Nor have you voiced any outrage over the destabilization of Iraq and Libya by the United States government; a crime against humanity that has also killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians, and caused untold misery. We are witnessing a program of genocide against the Muslim people that American citizens are bankrolling with their tax dollars, and a great majority here on Hubpages could give a damn. There is nothing that the rioters could do in Charlotte that could compare to the evil that continues to be perpetrated by this evil empire, even if they burned the city to the ground.
Here is what former drone operators had to say about this evil government and what they were forced to do according to NBC News: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/for … m-n472496/
Former Air Force airmen are speaking out against America's use of drone warfare, calling the military drone program "morally outrageous" and "one of the most devastating driving forces for terrorism and destabilization around the world."
In interviews with NBC News, three former servicemen — who together have 15 years of military drone experience — decried the civilian cost of drone strikes and called on President Obama to "turn this around" before he leaves office.
"We were very callous about any real collateral damage," said Michael Haas, 29, who worked as both a drone operator and instructor. "Whenever that possibility came up, most of the time it was a 'guilt by association' or sometimes we didn't even consider other people that were on screen."
wrenchBiscuit Translates: In other words, it didn't matter who, or how many were near the intended target. As long as the intended target was neutralized, any collateral damage was considered simply the cost of doing their bloody business.
Wrenchbisquick , collateral damage happens , it has happened at every battle known to mankind ! Accept it , it happens , it happened to Geronimo and to bill Clinton in the cloak room . AND it will happen at every BLM riot from its inception to the next one .
You've really got to get over Columbus Wrench , the modern world awaits the evolution of your input.
Perhaps I will get over Columbus when the rest of America stops celebrating Columbus Day every year.
Your cavalier attitude is typically American. But when it all comes to a theatre near you, and the "collateral damage" happens to be your family, friends, and neighbors. I will be anxious to hear your response.
We're told to get over years of oppression but "never forget" 9/11.
If one is worth remembering so is the other.
Excellent point Pink! Pearl Harbor Day is on all calendars. What is the purpose of July 4?
If you will notice, there are quite a few white people out there. Clearly it is not a Black/white issue.
I agree. It's just one of the many examples of a double standard here in the United States. But it is easy to understand why people of color are encouraged to forget the past as it concerns our ancestors. The remembering of our past serves to dismember the false narrative that America is the "Land of the Free", and that the founders were men of moral integrity. It is interesting that Americans don't have national holidays for the good white people, but only the bad. It has been said that money goes to money, and it also appears that evil goes to evil.
For example: There is no holiday for John Brown, but of course, there should be. John Brown was willing to sacrifice his life so that millions of African slaves could be free. It is easy to read such a story as it is written in a book. But John Brown had a real life. John Brown had a real family, and dreams that he wanted to fulfill. No one forced him to do what he did. Like millions of other white Americans during the antebellum, he could have simply looked the other way, focused on his own affairs, and let nature take it's course. But John Brown could not deny the evil and the suffering that was all around him. And the torment of the African slave, the very image of God, became his own torment. And so he was compelled to act. In a world of men, I can think of no greater love than that which was demonstrated by John Brown. And I can think of no American who is more deserving of a holiday, or national recognition.
I agree that our admiration for historical figures is often badly misplaced.
You make some really good points. All of the holidays we have are so we can "remember"; yet we are told to forget our past.
Remember the Alamo
Remember Pearl Harbor
Never forget 9/11
That time we owned people like we owned horses? Just forget about it.
Remember this: A 43-man crew in a wooden sailing ship didn't just show up on the shores of Africa with blunderbusses and run through the jungle capturing natives to make slaves. Those slaves were already held in slavery by their own kind. The white slave-traders rescued them to much better environs. Imagine where the First Ladyboy would be if her(?) ancestors hadn't been rescued?
Pearl Harbor, the Alamo, the OKC bombing & 9/11 were all false-flag events and inside-jobs just like the Lusitainia, USS Maine and other ship sinkings.
"First Ladyboy!" Prepper your comments are particularly disturbing. I'm thinking I should shut this forum down because I had no intention of attracting bigots. Not to mention "Christians" acting in such a way that does not glorify Jesus Christ.
You see Black people on cable and major network news who are highly inteligent and educated. They give thought provoking commentary on history, politics, current issues, etc. You interact with Black people on social who are well educated and well written. The President of the United States, AND his beautiful wife, individually have more education and accomplishment on their bios that most people on HubPages, regardless of color. Yes, Obama was a community organizer which means he carried about the community and wanted to help everyone progress. Remember, he attended law school and was a law professor. Who among you is qualified to be an attorney or teach college.
It doesn't matter what I say to "self'professed" Christians. The Lord looks at the heart.
Luke 6:45The [intrinsically] good man produces what is good and honorable and moral out of the good treasure [stored] in his heart; and the [intrinsically] evil man produces what is wicked and depraved out of the evil [in his heart]; for his mouth speaks from the overflow of his heart.
When we congratulate ourselves on knowing the Bible, we must remember that we are not the only ones.
I don't want it to get nasty. There are much better things I can do with my time.
A John (faithful husband?) gets caught with a prostitute. She's selling. He's buying. When the police raid the dump, the faithgul husband gets arrested. He's guilty and could get his face posted all over social media. His car could be taken. His wife really doesn't care that the prostitute was selling.
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 1 Cor. 6:18
If you buy stolen property, you are not charged for stealing. You are charged for possessing.
James 4:17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them.
"Well they did it!" is no excuse. Aren't you better than THEY are?
It is a popular racist myth that there was a bustling slave trade in Africa prior to the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, and that simply is not true. According to historian Marcus Rediker:
The “ancient and widely accepted institution” of enslavement in Africa was exacerbated by the European presence. Yes, European slave traders entered “preexisting circuits of exchange” when they arrived in the 16th century. But European demand changed the shape of this market, strengthening enslavers and ensuring that more and more people would be carried away. “[European] slave-ship captains wanted to deal with ruling groups and strong leaders, people who could command labor resources and deliver the ‘goods,’ ” Rediker writes, and European money and technology further empowered those who were already dominant, encouraging them to enslave greater numbers. Both the social structures and infrastructure that enabled African systems of enslavement were strengthened by the transatlantic slave trade.
This scenario, even on the face of it appears more credible because we can see the same tactics being played out in the Middle East today by the Imperialist U.S. government, as they encourage war and increase their profits through the destabilization of one country after another.
And much of what you say about Obama is ludicrous. It appears that you actually believe that powerful white Europeans and Americans: evil families who have been running the show from the very beginning, along with rich and powerful Zionist Jews, would actually let a black man get behind the wheel and drive their car wherever he wanted it to go? Really? There are many people who appear to believe in the tooth fairy, but that doesn't make it so.
I'd like to know who defends the riots. About this time yesterday, I sent a tweet telling those people to go home. It copied to my Facebook page and I put a separate prayer that they stop detracting from the issue at hand.
Colin Kaopernick has a much more civil way of express his concern about Blue/Black problems. People complain about him. I tweet and post my support for him and anyone who voices their concern and support in a civil manner. Dr. MLK did and people today still try to pain him as a villain.
I don't even support the peaceful protests UNLESS they can make sure none of the troublemakers are mixed in. The kerchiefs around the heads were a dead give away.
Tonight people are being peaceful. There's a group with "Free Hugs" written on the shirts. They are going up to hug police officers. Curfew is at midnight. Anyone out after curfew is breaking the law.
Yes I have heard the stupid things your wonderful Governor has said! He needs to be "out" of office.
I'm from Arkansas. I didn't see Puerto Ricans until I went to Chicago to visit my cousins. I remember seeing a Korean girl when a guy came back from service and brought his wife.
I'm glad I came to California because it broadened my cultural awareness of people who are non-Black. I don't overlook their color. I ask questions to learn more about them.
Thank you for commenting!
I think Michelle Obama was trying to impress upon us the fact that America has come a long way in it's developement as and its' acceptance of a multi-cultural society. We shouldn't forget that "America" originated as a "white" country. In its' beginning only whites were allowed to be American and are still the only "true" Americans. I think her statement was excellent even if many did'nt or don't understand it. Should she have made it?...Abolutely.
Thank you Ivan. I thought I had closed the forum for comment yesterday. Lately I've been a bit discouraged at how current incidents can bring out the venom in some of us. It is good to hear your response.
So, Ivan, why are whites today the only 'true Americans'?
You are very welcom Diane.
Credence2, Glad you asked. The reason why whites today are the only true Americans is for the same reason they were in 1777 when they wrote and adopted the constitution. At the time the only ones considered able to be men were white men. In the white mind there were no black "men", just blacks. People are often confused when they read the constitution or at least hear about it in some other conversation because it does say "all men are created equal" but once you know who it actually considered to be men and who were not the rest falls into place. Since America was founded by white men it was a white mans country. If they wanted to they could actually use the constitution to subdue the rights of every other race of people that lives here. If you have any doubts about who the true Americans are, ask yourself this question; Why is it that every non-white race in america is referred to with a prefix like African American, Mexican American, Chinese American etc. etc..but whites are simply referred to as American? and I've actually heard a white news reporter refer to a crowd of white people as "Native Americans". I remember thinking "that woman is crazy" until I actually thought it over. Then I realized that she was at least partialy correct as the crowd was all white, filling half the eqaution. The other half of the equation would require knowing if they born in America...and they probably were.
Interesting. Now we gotta hear WB weigh in on this.
He is absolutely correctomundo. This is why I am so big on History. My fascination with the past is directly related to my understanding of the present. As a person of Indigenous heritage, I find it ludicrous, as well as insulting when people refer to me as a "Native American". There were no Americans on this continent prior to the European Invasion, and I do not identify with my oppressors. The only true Americans are the white Euro-Americans. If an Indigenous person, or any person of color chooses to accept the American identity then they are accepting cultural genocide, but it is their right to do so.
We must create our own nation separate from the Americans. And the first step in that direction is cultural education, and a movement away from all things European, including European languages. The only place we have in their world is still a seat in the back of the bus. Many will argue that the election of a black President is proof that racism is dead in America. But it is only proof that P.T. Barnum was right: "There is a sucker born every minute". If his presidency was proof of substantial changes in the racial dynamic, then the Indigenous and the Blacks would not lay dead in streets all across the United States; innocent men, women, and children gunned down by the goon squad that is paid to protect corporate America. The Americans do not want us, and they certainly do not love us, but better yet, we do not need them.
I hear you, but the definition for what it is to be an American today is not what the definition was in 1777.
The Constitution had been amended with expanded definition of citizenship throughout the last two centuries. So the definition of real AMERICAN has been amended as well, does that make it any less real ? The narrow interpretation of being AMERICAN in the 18th century doesn't make it a better definition merely because it was the first one.
But In building AMERICA, white men stole land and made use of it at no cost and acquired free slave labor to build its economy. So there are IOUs involved, it is not the white man's country until the expropriated land and free labor is paid for? So they are not paid for it, to compensate, those unmentionable Minority groups get a 'cut' in the form of inclusion, being grafted in to that lily white tree, as it were?
If they used the Constitution to subdue all non-whites, than AMERICA becomes a fascist, racist state. AMERICA is as much a product as it is a country, our ideals are as much on display as our products. If AMERICA did not really believe in equality under the law and all those lofty ideals, then there was going to be a cost. Can the current leader of the free world really be successful on the international stage as fascist state?
Yes, I have doubts about your definition of true AMERICAN, and semantics have nothing to do with it. Regardless, of what you identify yourselves as, a real AMERICAN is one either born on U.S soil other otherwise naturalized. I call myself black or AFRICAN American, and I do not see myself as any less AMERICAN than a fellow citizen that is Anglo.
This line of reasoning is a dangerous decline into the world of the rightwing which is one of many reasons the races continue not to get along. The attitude that is behind the view that you express here.
Welcome to the debate forums.... And hang on to your hat
America - probably is most representative population of all of the nations in the world ,there are at last count - 196 countries . What America isn't - is white European , how many sets of DNA are there making up of the human chromosome ? 23 that's 46 chromosomes , Almost every single human being in America is made up of a percentage of all the minorities of the world INCLUDING Africans
Here's a fact - If you are a woman , you are more apt to be oppressed in any one of those countries , any one of these minorities ,including America - But are the popular social reformers of American protesters whining about oppression OF POOR WOMEN ? OF POOR CHILDREN Not hardly ! Not In America .
DO SOCIAL RECONSTRUCTIONISTS IN AMERICA PICK AND CHOSE THIER SUBJECTS , ACCORDING TO REAL POVERTY LINES ? NO. ACCORDING TO THE GENDER INEQUALITY? DO THEY CHOSE THIER VICTIMS ACCORDING TO AGE ? NO ! It's all about an entitled black teenager in Baltimore driving his mothers Lexus on Saturday night and how he has to act when he gets pulled by a cop !
Last night I watched a documentary about how women in Saudi-Arabia are treated EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THIER LIVES ! These women are the most persecuted people in the world right now and where are the social activists there ? In jail ! But in America we're supposed to take seriously the poor black kid in the Lexus ?
Just trying to make people think !
Three Perspectives,Nine Kachinas, and the Destruction of America
Tamir Rice. Walter Scott. and Sandra Bland weren't driving a Lexus. Terence Crutcher, one of the last black men murdered by a cop wasn't driving a Lexus either. He was in a broken down van. And since you are so concerned about the Saudi's, perhaps you could go there and straighten them out.
An arrogant, unapologetic attitude is what led to the Civil War. Apparently, that lesson in history is lost on many Americans today. The Americans have defiled the image of God in Hispaniola, Sand Creek, Wounded Knee;Natchez Mississippi, and during the Red Summer of 1919. They have defiled the image of God in Palestine, Syria, Afghanistan, and Libya. And they continue to mock the image of God throughout the United States, as the Indigenous, the African, and the European are slaughtered by paid assassins sworn to uphold the law of a devil. Revelation 6:8-17 was written for America:
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
In the words of Dr.Allen Ross:
"...World War III will be started by those peoples who first revealed the light (the divine wisdom or intelligence) in the other old countries (India, China, Islamic Nations, Africa.)
The United States will be destroyed, land and people, by atomic bombs and radioactivity. Only the Hopis and their homeland will be preserved as an oasis to which refugees will flee. Bomb shelters are a fallacy. "It is only materialistic people who seek to make shelters. Those who are at peace in their hearts already are in the great shelter of life. There is no shelter for evil. Those who take no part in the making of world division by ideology are ready to resume life in another world, be they Black, White, Red, or Yellow race. They are all one, brothers."
The war will be "a spiritual conflict with material matters. Material matters will be destroyed by spiritual beings who will remain to create one world and one nation under one power, that of the Creator."
That time is not far off. It will come when the Saquasohuh (Blue Star) Kachina dances in the plaza and removes his mask. He represents a blue star, far off and yet invisible, which will make its appearance soon. The time is foretold by a song sung during the Wuwuchim ceremony. It was sung in 1914 just before World War I, and again in 1940 before World War II, describing the disunity, corruption, and hatred contaminating Hopi rituals, which were followed by the same evils spreading over the world. This same song was sung in 1961 during the Wuwuchim ceremony.
The Emergence to the future Fifth World has begun. It is being made by the humble people of little nations, tribes, and racial minorities. "You can read this in the earth itself. Plant forms from previous worlds are beginning to spring up as seeds as described in SW-II, Effects and Coming Events # 1. This could start a new study of botany if people were wise enough to read them. The same kinds of seeds are being planted in the sky as stars. The same kinds of seeds are being planted in our hearts. All these are the same, depending how you look at them. That is what makes the Emergence to the next, Fifth World.
"These comprise the nine most important prophecies of the Hopis, connected with the creation of the nine worlds: the three previous worlds on which we lived, the present Fourth World, the three future worlds we have yet to experience, and the world of Taiowa, the Creator, and his nephew, Sotuknang."
The Hopi and others who were saved from the Great Flood made a sacred covenant with the Great Spirit never to turn away from him. He made a set of sacred stone tablets, called Tiponi, into which he breathed his teachings, prophecies, and warnings. Before the Great Spirit hid himself again, he placed before the leaders of the four different racial groups four different colors and sizes of corn; each was to choose which would be their food in this world. The Hopi waited until last and picked the smallest ear of corn. At this, the Great Spirit said:
"It is well done. You have obtained the real corn, for all the others are imitations in which are hidden seeds of different plants. You have shown me your intelligence; for this reason I will place in your hands these sacred stone tablets, Tiponi, symbol of power and authority over all land and life to guard, protect, and hold in trust for me until I shall return to you in a later day, for I am the First and I am the Last."
I don't know of a poor Black kid in a Lexus. People (adults) involved in illegal activity drive fancy cars. Some of them build empires illegally with ponzi schemes. Hard working people think they are saving for their retirement but end up having to work longer or be poor.
Do you have an ax to grind with women? Women are treated inhumanely in Muslim countries. The U. S. is suppoed to be the standard bearer. We should model the best treatment.
Over time people from many countries have come to America. I don't think that was the case initially. I'm not a historian so I don't know.
comment: "I hear you, but the definition for what it is to be an American today is not what the definition was in 1777."
answer: Actually, it's exactly the same. The difference being that now there are "amendments" to incorporate other races in support of the American ideology.
comment: "The narrow interpretation of being AMERICAN in the 18th century doesn't make it a better definition merely because it was the first one."
answer: If were strictly talking about definition you would have a case, but we're not. We're talking about a past mindset that has survived time.
comment: "it is not the white man's country until the expropriated land and free labor is paid for?"
answer: From a humanistic point of view it will never be the white mans land regardles of paying said "IOUs" but it will always be his "country" regardless.
comment: "If they used the Constitution to subdue all non-whites, than AMERICA becomes a fascist, racist state."
answer: News Flash!...America IS a fascist, racist state.
comment: "Can the current leader of the free world really be successful on the international stage as fascist state?"
answer: In case you were unaware, the world has globalized in all it's functions. It is currently under a socilialist agenda which is the second step towards fascism. The communist handbook can fill you in on the details of how to create a fascist world by turning democracy into socialism, socialism into fascism...etc. etc.. So , yes Americas supreme commander in chief, will not only succeed on a fascist platform but is and will be instrumental in the successful transformation of world government towards that end, at which time the American constitution will be null and void.
comment: "Yes, I have doubts about your definition of true AMERICAN"
answer: Well, being of the inherently ingrained white mindset, you would.
comment: "Regardless, of what you identify yourselves as, a real AMERICAN is one either born on U.S soil other otherwise naturalized."
answer: Perhaps you've lost sight of the question. At any rate, this newfound "American" you speak of is a consequence of the world move toward socialism. It does not, however, change the true per-se meaning of who is an American. American and American Citizen are two totally different groups hence the prefix given to all but whites. Most people don't understand that.
comment: "...I call myself black or AFRICAN American, and I do not see myself as any less AMERICAN than a fellow citizen that is Anglo."
answer: How one sees ones self is only pertinent to the overall cause of the globalist socialist agenda insomuch as; If one is to feel a part of the whole he must be given a sense of worth within that system regardless of whether or not that worth actually exists.
comment: "This line of reasoning is a dangerous decline into the world of the rightwing which is one of many reasons the races continue not to get along. The attitude that is behind the view that you express here."
answer: It would only be reasoning if it were not based in fact. As such it is not my "view" but an expression of the truth. The only time anyone has a problem with the truth is when it offends their sensibilities. The ingrained white superiority complex mindset of "white thoughts are right thoughts" is what drives many of the ideas, ideologies and courses of action we see in the world past, present and, in all likelihood, the future.
With that I say thank you for welcoming me to the forums.
My favorite story in the news
The friendship of George W. Bush and Michelle Obama
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/24/politics/ … _expansion
The Talk!!!
Some white people are offended when Black people say it is time to have "the talk" with their children. I'm wondering what they are thinking "the talk" is.
Basically, they are telling their kids to obey the police, announce that they are reaching to get their ID, not be argumentative, etc.
I include do not dress in a way that will make you suspect. Of course they have the right to dress the way they want to; however, sagging pants, white t shirts, hoodies, gold chains, gold in their teeth, etc., will cause officers to pause. Also standing around in a group might look like illegal activity.
Why would having "the talk" be so offensive?
The problem that remains is that why do we have to take all the 'precautions' with our children? Obviously children of white parents don't need to give such things a second thought. When the time comes when you do not have to give these race oriented lectures to your children in a society where we are all supposed to be equal, will be the day we have reached the 'promised land'.
True.
I've come to the conclusion it is possible to explain something that is "wrong" to someone who a) has not experienced it or b) agrees with it.
I just wonder why people would get mad when parents are trying to teach their children how to stay alive.
Who do you think is taking offense about this need to lecture our children?
Mayor De Blasio said he was going to have to have "the talk" with his son. This was last year some time. Several people made offensive comments on news programs. They were offended that he would talk to his son about ? race I suppose. I saw offensive comments under the article.
What precautions? To not join a gang, or make an effort to look like a gang member? To not make a concerted effort to look like a delinquent out to see what kind of trouble they can get in?
My son (white) was stopped once for a dirty license plate. Of course, the real reason is that he was filthy, covered with grease and shirtless. You look like you're up to no good, expect to be stopped and questioned. And it doesn't matter what race you are. You will disagree, but I appreciate the cops that have been on the beat long enough to build instincts about that kind of thing and do a little proactive policing instead of waiting for a crime to happen.
So you do get upset about the way kids look? You couldn't be a teacher. The sagging done by the Black kids is also done by the white kids at the school. It's against school policy but the school does nothing.
Upset? No. Disgusted? Yes. Would I have some of them in customer service? Absolutely not. Do I sometimes assign "danger" to dress styles? Yes.
I hate the dress styles also. I was hoping it would be a thing of the past like nehru jackets and culottes. In the 90s they wore pants a size or two too large. Now manufacturers make them to fit below their hip line.
That the whole problem, I don't trust allowing as much discretion for police as you appear comfortable with.... For a job of this nature, I want all Law enforcement officers required to keep cameras operating while on duty.
I, you or they have the right to "look" any way that they choose, without being harassed by police. What is pro-active policing? I can't subscribe to your 'Mayberry', values and instincts, sorry. Are you or are you not in compliance with the law, that is the only relevant question.
With the current race based problems involving police encounters, from our standpoint it appears that to the police all black males may be considered up to no good.... Look at the reasoning behind 'stop and frisk'. Why should we trust their instincts?
You're right about one thing, yes, I disagree, respectfully as always.
Proactive policing: prevent crimes from happening instead of putting people in jail (or shooting them) for committing a crime.
You should trust their instincts because they are far, far better than your own. It can be seen in the use of "our" and that it appears to you that to the police all black males may be considered up to no good. The second is about as far from being true as it is possible to get, but still your "instinct".
My values as to what is considered 'up to no good' may differ from your own. The standards of the fellow from Idaho are not by any means 'universal'. I would rather rely of factual data from camera, than listen to a cops' reason for harrassing a citizen based upon their instinct of what does not look right.
Look, Wilderness, you are always taking an all or nothing stance. There is nothing wrong with the instructions to youth by parents stuff, you talk about. I just do not see why it has to be one or the other rather than both options? Your belief that black folks exaggerate on the issue of general racial animosity within too many municipal police departments sound the same to me as your hysterical fear that Hillary coming to take all of your guns. Now that sounds ludicrous to me. Such is the difference between left and right........
People have their values before they take jobs. They take their values with them. A lady got fired for tweeting that Michelle Obama was an ugly be-atch after the DNC. Some people saw the post, found her on FB, and called here employer. She was a loan officer(?) or something at a financial institution. She got fired real quickly. Her comment was in conflict with anti-discriminiation laws; i.e., whose to say should wouldn't deny a loan because of race, creed or color.
Wow! Good Golly Miss Molly! I had to laugh when I saw this. Is this what Idaho is really like? So because a person is "filthy" and covered with grease, you feel that the police are justified in profiling them. In other words, a mechanic, field hand, factory worker , or construction worker is naturally a suspect because they are dirty. And of course, because they didn't take a shower and change their clothes before heading home, according to you, they deserve to be pulled over and harassed by a Donut Hound; even your own son. What about those who don't have the facilities available to clean up before going home? I never imagined that someone who looked like he had been working and busting his hump for 8-12 hours would be considered up to no good. And so, based on your previous commentary, we can understand that in your Private Idaho, people who don't have jobs(especially black people) are lazy and no good. Now, we also understand that people who do have jobs but come home dirty, are people who look like they are up to no good.
Please, for your own safety, don't ever make such a comment in a bar full of coal miners. This reminds of another forum where you commented that the life of your son was not worth stricter gun control. You explained that it would inconvenience millions of consumers. Of course, you were referring to Neanderthals who must substitute lethal weaponry for a sex life. I am impressed with your love of authority, and apparently you find no intrusion to be unwelcome. The good news is, you will have no problem at all with martial law. Years ago when I watched the Stepford Wives I really thought that it was only a movie, a work of fiction. But I am beginning to realize now that it was prophecy. However, in spite of your uncanny world vision, I really do like baked potatoes, with butter and sour cream.
Hey Diane, "the talk" is only offensive to those who are truly out of touch with the way things are in America. If the shoe were on the other foot and America was founded, developed and built, on the backs of white people as a "black" country and whites were here as a matter of consequence THEY would be the ones having the talk with their young sons. So, it's a matter of perspective and refusing to "see" and accept reality.
I think it is a barrier to healing. It causes resentment which further polarizes those without understanding.
Well, don't you think things are changing toward the better? People often discriminate for other reasons as well. But, I do think in this generation, things are improving.
It may depend on where you live as well. And the way we choose to carry ourselves and dress as well. Kind of shows which lifestyle we are gearing ourselves for.
I'm sure that I did not say things have not changed.
I experienced great discrimination in Arkansas, during the time Central High was being integrated. I experienced colored water fountains, colored bathrooms, riding on the back of the bus and going to the back door.
This have changed. Some people are not taking advantage of opportunities. That is a problem.
Consider circumstances of a case when social media covers a Black man killed by police. GabbyLisa sent me on a goose chase but I found this.
Tawon Boyd called 911 himself. It seems he has mental issues I don't say that lightly because my sister is bipolar and unable to interact with people.
Community policing might help officers know who people with mental issues are.
Back to Boyd no gun, 5'5", 122 lbs
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/man- … s-42271391
A black man died three days after he called police to his suburban Baltimore home during an outburst of strange behavior and was punched in the face and held to the ground by officers, police and relatives said.
Tawon Boyd, 21, died Wednesday after spending three days in a hospital following the confrontation with officers Sunday morning outside his home in Middle River. Baltimore County police said in a statement that he became aggressive with officers, who used physical force to subdue him.
"They kept on grabbing on him and holding him down, and he started screaming, 'Grandma, Grandma, they're going to kill me,'" Linda Burch, Boyd's grandmother, told The Associated Press. Burch, 51, had been staying with her grandson and witnessed the confrontation across the street from his home.
An autopsy is being conducted to determine the cause of death. A lawyer for Boyd's family, Latoya Francis-Williams, told The Associated Press that Boyd's kidneys and heart failed. She said it's not clear whether his death resulted from the beating or a medical condition, but she said he hadn't experienced kidney failure previously.
"He didn't have those bruises. He wasn't battered before this. He wasn't unconscious before this," Francis-Williams said Thursday. "All of the physical injuries came from the severe beating he took on Sunday."
The confrontation occurred after Boyd himself called 911, police and Francis-Williams said Thursday. The lawyer and police initially believed Boyd's girlfriend had placed the call. Francis-Williams said the operator heard Boyd's girlfriend in the background saying he needed medical attention. Boyd did not ask for medical aid and officers responded because the call indicated a domestic disturbance, police said in a statement.
When police arrived, Boyd told officers there was someone inside his house, but in fact there was no intruder, according to a police report obtained by The AP. He "appeared to be confused and paranoid," police said in the report, and his girlfriend told officers he was acting "crazy."
The confrontation with police began after Boyd repeatedly banged on the door of a neighbor's home and officers tried to pull him away to keep him from going inside, according to the police report. Police said Boyd also tried to enter several marked police cars. He refused to obey orders to lie down and put his hands on his back, and began grabbing and kicking officers, injuring three of them, police said.
"I think they killed him," Burch told AP. "By them being so many, and they tall and big, and he's small. It didn't take all them police just to try to hold him down."
Boyd was 5-foot-5 inches tall, according to court records, and Francis-Williams said he weighed 122 pounds.
Francis-Williams said she's found no evidence that Boyd was violent before officers started beating him.
"Blows to the head, choking somebody — that's deadly force," Francis-Williams said. "I haven't heard any officer articulate that his or her life was in danger or there was an actual threat of severe bodily injury or death."
One officer punched Boyd twice in the face because Boyd was hanging onto him, according to the police report. The officers restrained Boyd by holding him down with their arms and legs, the report said. The confrontation with police lasted about five minutes, and five officers were involved, the report said.
Medics were called during the struggle and gave Boyd something to calm him down, but the name of the medication was redacted from the police report. Police said medical privacy laws prevent them from detailing the treatment.
The report said officers believed Boyd was under the influence of a narcotic. Boyd's uncle, Prinice Thomas, told AP that he had never known Boyd to use any drug other than marijuana.
Boyd worked as a forklift operator, his family's attorney said, and he had a 3-year-old son with his girlfriend, Deona Styron, who was pregnant with the couple's second child. In June, Styron sought a temporary protective order against him, alleging that he hit and choked her, according to court records.
"He gets mad and starts hitting me and fussing at me and I can't take it anymore. He needs to seek help," Styron wrote.
Styron did not return a message left at a number listed for her.
Homicide detectives are investigating the incident, standard procedure in police-involved deaths. The department did not reveal the races of the officers.
Like many black men who have died during confrontations with police, Boyd's name was trending as a hashtag on Twitter, but there were no immediate protests. Boyd died on the same day that Baltimore County prosecutors said no charges would be filed in the death of Korryn Gaines, a 23-year-old black woman who, police and prosecutors said, pointed a shotgun at officers during a standoff at her apartment.
About 70 people gathered for a community meeting Thursday night in Randallstown, where Baltimore County State's Attorney Scott Shellenberger faced questions from residents about his decision not to bring charges in the Gaines case.
Kelly Carter, executive director for the Liberty Road Business Association, said the two cases have reinforced her concerns that the county's police department needs to work on community relations.
"I think that they need to go back to the drawing board and create new training programs for the officers," Carter said after the meeting. "And I think there needs to be more of a presence in building community relations."
Activists with the Black Lives Matter movement protested over Gaines' death, and a wrongful-death lawsuit has been filed.
Francis-Williams said lawsuits were possible and that the county's police department has problems similar to neighboring Baltimore city, where a Justice Department investigation found repeated civil rights violations. The investigation followed the death of Freddie Gray, a black man who died after suffering a spinal injury while riding in a Baltimore police van.
———
You've got Ozzie and Harriet responding to this thread who live in Mayberry Idaho, and who go squirrel hunting with the local sheriff. Of course they don't see police brutality in their insular white world. People of all races are being brutalized by these thugs in uniform. Their power to violently assault citizens needs to be severely limited. It is getting increasingly difficult to distinguish the police from Hitler's Brown Shirts.
Being a cop is a mindset induced primarily through their training. Need I say more? That's why you see various races of cops, black, white, what have you, all committing the same violent behaviours towards black people. The cop mindset is one that daemonizes blacks and reduces them to non-human status.
Ivan it slays me how people can demonize kids that are doinig kid things.
Well Diane, it all comes down to one thing which is what I said about who the only True Americans are. The civil rights movement of the '60's may have given blacks certain rights but the one thing it did not and will never do is make whites see blacks as equal human beings. So if you carry forward from 1777 to today the true "American" mindset then it becomes easy to see how they can demonize children. Of course there are exceptions to every rule but for the most part this generalization applies to the majority as is evidenced by so many of them claiming to not "see" the problem but rather they put the blame of police brutality on the victims themselves. In their eyes the offspring of subhumans are simply smaller subhumans. I remember my grandmother telling me about her father, who was Tuscarora, and how he was simply taken as a child and confined to a "re-education" school. She also told me how during the 2nd white war or, WWII as they refer to it, the young "colored" men (my gram referred to all non-whites as colored), practically boys, were grabbed right off of the street and forced to enlist with no recourse for their families. The only way one group can do such things to another is by not seeing the other group as equal human beings. That's why so many whites don't understand the need for the "Talk" and see it as anti-social and promoting distrust and fear of the police.
I believe in friendship evangelism! I understood immediately what you meant about the only true Americans.
Slavery shouldn't and cannot be forgotten. It is difficult for people to discuss race relations because a lot of people still have inherent biases.
Ah! Thank you for joining! You are an interesting person. I taught choral music in school until January 2016. Kids would say, Please don't make us sing OPRAH!"
Your job must be very stressful. Can you tell me if 911 operators are supposed to dispatch every word that comes in from callers to responding officers. I'm speaking of calls that say a) person is mentally ill, b) person has a gun but it looks fake, etc.
Thanks again for joining us!
6 year old WHITE kid killed by Louisiana police.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/201 … r-old.html
ahorse, it is happening to white people also.
Absolute animals! I'm tired of hearing people talk about the "good cops" Apparently, it's not the good cops who are killing 6 year old white kids, and 12 year old black kids! So we need to stop talking about and praising the so-called "good cops", and start doing something about the "bad cops", since they are the ones doing all of the killing. As I have suggested before, and I am serious: Give them donuts instead of guns, as it will help to improve their social skills.
example of the bigotry that we imagine
‘BEYOND OPINION’
Racist Trump Troll in a Gorilla Mask Is Exposed
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 … DAfternoon
I read the story.Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but when I look at the guys picture I see he has that "inbred" look that was portrayed in the movie "Deliverance". People like him give banjo's a bad name.
Here we go with the monkeys again!!!!! How can we imagine these things are happening when they are all over the Internet.
Mayor pushed to resign after racist Facebook posts
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/29/politics/ … index.html
The calls for resignation come after a Facebook page apparently belonging to Wasko posted in June a picture of a monkey, saying it's a picture of Michelle Obama and a wagon of orangutans captioned "moving day at the White House."
However, that's not the only offensive content the Facebook page has posted, or even the most recent. He has various posts calling Obama and Hillary the leaders of ISIS, Hillary behind bars, and various others. One of the more overt posts was a picture of Clint Eastwood holding a noose with the text "Barry this rope is for you. Wanna bring that empty chair over here!"
Why can't wrongly accused Black people be seen as innocent after dna test results and admission of the crime by someone else.
Central Park 5 accused of "Wilding." Wilding was labels as something "Black" people do?
Please don't veer off to people who have been proven guilty unless it is a comparison. Commission of a crime makes one guilty.
Donald Trump and the Central Park Five
http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-david … -park-five
What ‘The Central Park Five’ Teaches Us About a Trump Administration
http://flavorwire.com/578741/what-the-c … nistration
School worker gets fired. Accurate history cannot be taught to students. Why does one thing she can give her personal opinion on a person's looks?
Some don't want to talk about slavery; however, they keep the gorilla/monkey comparisons going which come from the slavery philosophy that Africans were animals.
Atlanta school employee fired after racist Facebook post about Michelle Obama
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/atlant … id=magnews
I hope picture shows. I guess I need a jpg.
The president and his wife has been subject to so much of this nonsense by this sort. But, I don't care what they think, after all who in fact actually takes residence at 1600 Pensyvania Ave? It is just sour grapes and they are frustrated that there is nothing they can do about reality verses their wishful thinking.
Attacking the first Lady and the two girls is a bit below the belt. I do remember GW Bush being referred to as a 'chimp'. But at least LAURA and his daughters were left alone.
To quote Dirty Donald, "The last 24 hours have been interesting." May be a paraphrase.
WB, did you know about this!
Quest to change Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples Day sails ahead
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/09/us/columb … d=29783458
Yes! I and many others have been fighting for many years to end the hideous spectacle of Columbus Day. There are many people across the country who have awakened to the realization that they have been celebrating the life of a thief and mass murderer.
It is good for history to be accurate. The article stated that Columbus never stepped on the North American shore. I remember vivid pictures that were planted in our heads.
Darn women might keep Donald Trump from becoming president. He is encouraging white people to, after they vote for him, go to "those neighborhoods" to watch what is going on.
What can they tell by watching?
To deal with my current flashbacks of traumas suffered from the ripe old age of 8, I have done some research about African Americans. This is what I've found:
* 28% live in poverty; 24% are working class; 36% are middle class; 11% are upper middle class; and 1% are wealthy.
* Currently, America is facing a crisis in which many children do not advance beyond their parents' standard of living. African American middle class youth are especially vulnerable; they are the most likely to REGRESS financially.
* A major factor in this regression is teen pregnancy. 40% of girls in the US will get pregnant before age 20. Among African Americans, this rate is 48% - almost HALF. 57% of them will give birth, and 90% of them will not marry the father. The vast majority of them will not finish high school, thus guaranteeing poverty.
* 1/3 of black males will be arrested by age 24. 1/6 of black men are either incarcerated or on parole. 1 in 100 black women are incarcerated. I heard on NPR a few days ago that in preschool, black boys are scrutinized the most, while black girls are virtually ignored. According to my experience, girls are just as bad, if not worse, than boys. They may mellow when they get older, but they go on to produce thugs. Wouldn't that make the women just as guilty???
Apparently, my traumas result from the bottom 28%. While that is a minority, just how pervasive is that 28%? There are a few wealthy African American neighborhoods, mostly along the East Coast: https://www.quora.com/Are-there-predomi … rime-rates
but there are far more dangerous ghettos. Atlanta has long been the African American capital of the US, well known for the opportunities it affords them. Even that city has a high crime rate.
African Americans are the most disliked group in the US. They are also disliked in many countries throughout the world. Apparently, that 28% is doing some serious damage to our reputation. I say we do something about that 28%!
* 28% live in poverty; 24% are working class; 36% are middle class; 11% are upper middle class; and 1% are wealthy.
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OK
* Currently, America is facing a crisis in which many children do not advance beyond their parents' standard of living. African American middle class youth are especially vulnerable; they are the most likely to REGRESS financially.
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Our grip on prosperity is so much more tenuous than than that of whites because of recent history, so of course that is true.
* A major factor in this regression is teen pregnancy. 40% of girls in the US will get pregnant before age 20. Among African Americans, this rate is 48% - almost HALF. 57% of them will give birth, and 90% of them will not marry the father. The vast majority of them will not finish high school, thus guaranteeing poverty.
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This trend is affecting white communities as well, it will take a little longer but the advantage of wealth and privilege won't last forever.
* 1/3 of black males will be arrested by age 24. 1/6 of black men are either incarcerated or on parole. 1 in 100 black women are incarcerated. I heard on NPR a few days ago that in preschool, black boys are scrutinized the most, while black girls are virtually ignored. According to my experience, girls are just as bad, if not worse, than boys. They may mellow when they get older, but they go on to produce thugs. Wouldn't that make the women just as guilty???
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I can't deny this, I never got into fist fights with white girls. But but black girls resolve differences through fighting. I wish some of black females could weigh in here and explain why. But to describe their offsprings as automatic thugs goes beyond the pale. Most children mature as they grow older.
Apparently, my traumas result from the bottom 28%. While that is a minority, just how pervasive is that 28%? There are a few wealthy African American neighborhoods, mostly along the East Coast: https://www.quora.com/Are-there-predomi … rime-rates
but there are far more dangerous ghettos. Atlanta has long been the African American capital of the US, well known for the opportunities it affords them. Even that city has a high crime rate.
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Your problem is making sure that the remaining 72 percent are not castigated by your 'trauma'. Trauma cancome from any number of sources and experiences, and I have had more than a few that I source to problems with whites. There are more blacks living in poverty than living at the one percent, so of course there are going to be more ghettos.
African Americans are the most disliked group in the US. They are also disliked in many countries throughout the world. Apparently, that 28% is doing some serious damage to our reputation. I say we do something about that 28%!
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I don't know, when I was in Europe, AFRICAN American men were preferred and popular with the fräulein in Germany. I had a great time, the Europeans has fewer issues with us. I never sensed the subconscious racial awareness that always hung in the air between Blacks and Whites, within the States and almost always taken for granted like gravity, but when you jump from a cliff, you are quickly reminded. Cultural arrogance was the possession of the white AMERICAN. Black Americans were simply seen as not so smug. A more avid desire to work within the European culture to living the adage, 'when in Rome'....... We get much of the bad rap abroad because of dissemination of the American racial standard through out the world, incorrectly influencing people, consciously and subconsciously.
Credence2 - I admit, I erred regarding international dislike of African Americans. I too was very well received throughout Europe, especially Germany and Austria.
However, I stand by the rest of my post. In fact, I will add the antagonistic sector of African Americans approaches 52%. Working class North Oakland was not as bad as ghetto East Oakland, but it had its issues. The school where I got the black eye was actually in Piedmont, a wealthy sector. In 1988, East Palo Alto was the murder capital of the US; considering it had no projects, I wouldn't call it a proper ghetto.
True, not all poor / working class blacks are troublemakers, and not all black troublemakers are poor / working class. But you have to admit, a lot of them are out there.
Then there are the blacks in high places who use their money to get away with crimes, like O.J. Simpson and Bill Cosby...
It's funny that you mention those two cases. O.J was found not guilty by a jury of his so-called peers and Bill Cosby didn't get brought into the defamation limelight until he started speaking out against "thug" behaviour by young black men...both apparently having a "thing" for white women. Everyone who watched the O.J. fiasco saw the lack of credible evidence and that the evidence put forth was actually fabricated. Bill Cosby...well, the message to him was that he should have just continued on being a white mans black man, but since he started to advocate for civility and sensibility among inner city youth he got blackballed by the powers that be! Their high visibility was perfect in perpetuating the fabricated falsity of the "inferiority" of black men. I could be wrong...or I could be right.
You sir, are very perceptive are you sure that you are not a black man in 'white face'? You speak of things that I thought that only WE could understand or appreciate.
Injustice is injustice...
That being said, I'll put it like this; being part white and part Tuscarora from a "segregated" village in New York...that's right...segregation in New York right up until the '80s. I look white but through my lifes experiences I have found that blacks are not the only people disliked or looked upon as inferior here in America. Even though I could "pass" for being all white I make it a point to let those interested know the facts of my heritage. I give credit to my Grandmother for the way I am as she would always point out the "unspoken" to me even as a child. It caused me to be very observant of my surroundings and as such I have come to be able to see right through the facade that others would put up. My time in U.S.A.F. intelligence afforded me the resources and opportunity to become very learned in propaganda and psychological warfare which brought me to the realization that many people are propagandistic, even though they are unaware of it, in their "explanation" of how they think things are. Personally, I can see the things hidden in plain sight.
I recently read a comment on this thread that reminded me of something that happened some years back. A white female college student had visited a local Native American website and was asking a lot of questions inconsistant with the purpose of the site. Turns out she was "researching" for a term paper about the local so-called "indians". When I told her that the site was community oriented and that her questions were inappropriate she got upset and came with their usual response of "I'm just trying to help you people". The reason I bring this up is because, like I explained to members of that site, white people have this ingrained ages old superiority complex. They are always right, no matter what the subject matter. And when their intentions or beliefs are brought into question the response is "I'm just trying to help you"...as if non-whites are unable to help themselves or achieve any positive outcomes without the help of the superior race. So, it's not just that I understand what you understand but rather it's that WE understand the things that EVERYONE should understand but because of certain psychologically ingrained perceptions all are simply not CURRENTLY capable of understanding.
the realization that many people are propagandistic, even though they are unaware of it, in their "explanation" of how they think things are.
Ah! You can see through the Bull Sugar Honey Iced Tea!
I think 52 percent is high, so you are saying that all those in poverty and the working class are antogonistic. I don't see your reasoning for this.
Just because you have a couple of high profile black men with questionable criminal involvement, after all OJ was acquitted, does not speak for the vast majority who are no different then their affluent peers. How does that differ them in any substative way from mischievous white celebrity? Why apply a differing standard here?
You do realize what it sounds like you are saying, right? Or at least what I am understanding from reading it.
? I guess I didn't communicate this well.
Trump is concerned that there will be cheating at the polls.
When we are dealing with human beings one on one, there are times when statistics do not apply. That 28% have problems. Why the hatred for Michelle Obama which is a highly educated, intelligent, attractive motivating force who wants to encourage people to "go high" while others are going low. Using 28% to dislike her is irrational.
It's not irrational, Diane, it's simply a certain demographic grasping at straws to protect their ingrained sensibilities of racial superiority. Michelle Obama is the one thing that white America hates and feares the most. How? well, she is a black person who, by the nature of her position as first lady, has stared the racist nature of the true Americans right in the face and as such has told them that their ideology of the black person is wrong...and she is a woman. Now, I'm sure that SOME hear will say that women have equal this and equal that but the fact of the matter is that women in general are still looked upon as inferior to men, which is still the belief of the original Americans.
So, what we have in Michelle is that she is a black woman holding the second highest position in a country that was originated by white people that saw and see blacks as inferior. As far as the "statistics" go, they're like averages...they only really account for a few while being applied to the whole. The statistics game is simply used to marginalize a portion of the population. Problem is that those marginalized folk got together and elected a black president.
Now, you are cooking with gas!!! This was very honest and prescient, thanks..
And bigoted people are so ingrained in their stew that they will elect a narcissistic, arrogant, womanizing, instigating, unfaithful husband who hates old women even though he is aging to be president.
People quote Dr. MLK. How many quote, "judged by the content of their character and not the color of their skin."
It is disheartening to experience much of the marginalization that I feel here.
dianetrotter wrote:
"And bigoted people are so ingrained in their stew that they will elect a narcissistic, arrogant, womanizing, instigating, unfaithful husband who hates old women even though he is aging to be president."
Have you ever heard the story about the frog in the pot of water? The frog was put in a pot of cold water and the pot was put on the stove. The water heating gradually did not give the frog cause for concern and had actually began to feel pretty good. Then as the water began to boil the frog finally realized, albeit too late, that he was being cooked.
Donald Trump is the cook, America is the pot and his constituents are the frogs! As for the rest of us...we are, as my father used to say; S.O.L.! (s*it outta luck!).
I hadn't heard that one. I hope I get the opportunity to use it.
To say "Racial bigotry is not a problem" is to bury your head in the sand.
Students expelled after Facebook group calls for 'execution' of Jews, black people
The Guardian Website
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 … CMP=twt_gu
"Darn women might keep Donald Trump from becoming president. He is encouraging white people to, after they vote for him, go to "those neighborhoods" to watch what is going on."
What can they tell by watching?
Diane, these so call poll watchers are just attempting to intimidate Minority voters, but it is not going to work. The state and municipalities will have appointed people on hand to keep the troublemakers under control.
I remember colored people going to the polls in groups when I was a child. My dad volunteered to drive a group. There was an organization, can't remember the name of it now, that informed colored people of their rights and organized rides to the polls.
If you people really cared about justice you would demand answers for why the Secret Service killed a black single-mother named Miriam Carey in a White House parking lot.
I remember when it happened. Do you have any information for us?
The young woman was supposedly one who became PG by BHO during a dental visit. She thought she was going to show the baby-daddy the kid. She panicked when the heavily-armed Secret Service approached her car and tried to turn around and drive away so they removed the baby from the car and shot the driver Miriam repeatedly.
I believe that as much as the birther thingy. Stuff like that cannot be hidden. Jesse Jackson tried to hide his mess but it was revealed. John Edwards is a classic case.
People start those rumors about BHO because they hate him. It is easier to spread rumors to suggest that he should be hated than to come out and boldly say, "I hate him."
I don't agree with BHO on all of his positions. Neither do I hate him.
I believe even God hates the Antichrist. Perhaps you can explain the Connecticut Social Security number BHO is now using when he never lived, worked or went to school in that state. Obama is a complete fraud. He isn't even half-black as a grandmother of his legal father was an Arab-Bedouin(Caucasoid).
Sgt, Believing that gives people an excuse to hate BHO. I don't believe tells. Actually Trump should have shown proof that BHO was not born in the US since he made the claim. I think the Connecticut stuff is bull sugar honey iced tea unless BHO has been asked to explain.
I'm from Arkansas, close to Missouri. I have to validate it.
It's sad to hate people and then try to justify it.
Can any of us agree that police officers need special training to handle mental health calls??? It's only productive when we discuss issues related to the forum.
I doubt that this person is Black; however, I think someone mentioned that this is not a problem for white people. No identity given yet.
Is there a better way to handle these?
Austin Police Fatally Shoot Woman After Mental Health Call
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/aus … ll-n667241
Police fatally shot a woman in Austin, Texas, early Sunday after her husband placed a mental health call because he was worried about his wife's behavior.
I'm sorry to say that I think they have had that training, that's why they do what they do in those instances. Police killing of the mentally ill happens all too often for it to be coincidental. And then they just tell the public that the killing was somehow justified. Always making it seem through their "explanation" as though the lives of the police on the scene were in some way immediately at risk. The fact of the matter is that NO lives, other than the lives of those who serve and protect the power elite and the lives of the power elite themselves matter. This should be obvious by the casual way they handle these public killings of not only the mentally ill but anyone else who gets in their way. And it's not just what they say, but also how they say it.
A fitting Indigenous First Peoples quote from Black Hawk Indian, Sauk~
"How smooth must be the language of the whites, when they can make right look like wrong, and wrong like right."
Wow! With the declining white population and increasing non-white population I hope things will change for the better. However, it is part of human nature for some to want to be superior to others. This seems to play out when there is any group of humans.
Geez! I started to write "I was nowhere on the totem pole." It's interesting as we become more sensitive to the concerns of others, we can see where what we say might be offensive. It's been interesting getting the perspectives of you and WB.
Diane ,
"Wow !,With the declining white generation and increasing non-white I hope things will change for the better ".
Now if I've ever heard a more race generated statement , it pales to this one !
To me - this statement says about all that anyone with true insight into humanity , needs to hear to understand the basic race narrative of TODAY . thank you for clarifying this .
Newsflash! During the antebellum many slaves hated their evil masters and wished for them to die. Did that make them "bad people"? Of course not. Anyone who has been kidnapped and forced into perpetual servitude would be a fool not to hate their oppressor. There were also times when my people killed as many white people as they could. Does this mean that my people were evil? Of course not. My ancestors were defending themselves against an evil aggressor who sought to murder them, and to steal everything in sight. Only a fool would go fishing while Invaders go about their business of rape, theft, and murder. But apparently they did not kill enough to make a difference.
And since the beginning of Reconstruction until now, people of color have continued to be oppressed by a white majority. The fact that many hope things will get better once the whites become a minority is a valid concern. Your argument that the OP's statement is "race generated" is sorely misplaced, since the race that has committed the greatest acts of terrorism; the race that has "generated" a feeling of fear and hatred for over 500 years on this continent; the race that is still pretending Jesus while committing acts of terrorism here and around the world ... is the "white race".
WB, as I do my family research, I see bonds created between some (definitely not most) slave owners and slaves. Of course, these were not the first generation slaves but those who were born on the plantations. Slave owners sometimes gave large pieces of land for all of their slaves and their freedom.
The wife of the slave owner of my Tate ancestors did not like slavery and she became an advocate for the slaves. She wrote books and articles extensively. She even talked about what it was like to see the newborn babies of slaves that grew up to look like their husbands. I've got to find her name again.
Anyway, not everyone will ever feel the same way about anything. I would like to sense that people are "doing unto others as they would have others do unto them." Often, as now, it doesn't matter if the government structure is meant to be equal, it is the hearts of men and women that determine relationships.
ahorse, I don't remember the article (book) that you and I talked about. The article was about white man's concern that they were being marginalized. There is concern about "reverse" discrimination.
With the decline of the white population, that will shift the balance of power. It will be gradual. I'm hoping people will not want to "get even" because they are the larger number. Right now there is concern about bigotry. In the future, I'd like to think there would be none; however, human nature will have a lot to do with that.
I try to state reality and it is impossible to do that without talking about ethnicities. It looks like I didn't communicate it well.
Is this any clearer? if not, can you give me your thoughts on the decline of the white population and increase of non-white population. How will that affect government, culture, economy.
I'm sorry if what I said was offensive.
Here is something that you will no doubt misinterpret as racist even though it absolutely is not: what does nature do in order to preserve the best attributes and get rid of the ones not conducive to any positive effect? It phases out the non-positive...and brings forth the best or more fitting...true survival of the fittest. Since science has discovered that the "white" gene is in fact recessive what does that tell us about natures outlook towards it? Since nature rids itself of the harmful and or useless in order to preserve only the best it would be safe to say that the decline of the white gene through its' recessive nature, and the ever increasing number of non-whites, that people of color are the choice of natural selection. That is not to say that I think people of color would run the world any better than whites...but nature apparently thinks so. In time the only true race will finally be understood as being the human race with all it's color variations, no on variant having any credible reason to feel superior to any other. Although, and it irks me to say, there will inevitably be something that will cause strife and discord amongst people, be it religion, economic status structure or just plain old meanness. So, with that I would say that if we can learn something positive from todays racial strife that we would be able to apply what was learned to hopefully prevent other extreme "group" related divisive issues .
Wow that's a complicated question , Perhaps nature will one day make us all darker , lighter or some naturally pleasant shade between and we will have equalized DNA pairs , But it would have to certainly make us all blind to not instantly judge the one standing next to us . THAT is about the only cure for being prejudiced , not matter what your color .
Do I consider your question racist ? No just not really important .
Well, it's not complicated at all, really. Nature eliminates that which is not conducive to survival. If it deems the white gene as non-conducive to said survival, which it has by making it recessive, then by default the world will at some point be devoid of the white race.
you say that; "But it would have to certainly make us all blind to not instantly judge the one standing next to us . THAT is about the only cure for being prejudiced , not matter what your color ."
That is an excellent observation, one of which I addressed with the statement of
if we can learn something positive from todays racial strife that we would be able to apply what was learned to hopefully prevent other extreme "group" related divisive issues in the future.Taking what we learn today in how we ultimately irradicate racism we can apply it to any judgmentalist issues later on as the cure for prejudice is in the mind not the eyes.
Any rational person would think that the removal, by nature, of an entire ethnic group, is very important, unless of course you don't believe or are unwilling to accept the science...kinda like those who don't believe in global warming. It's mid October and it reached 84 degrees here in New York today. I guess that's not too important either.
One , "Natural selection " will do whatever it does without you or me deciding any of that . However to immediately determine one as 'of racism' because you disagree with the opine is just as biased or racist as determining a true racist . wouldn't you think , like it or not that is fact .
And two,
"Not talking about it " ie. racism , isn't the same as whether or not one recognizes the existence of racism , Here is one of my points all along this thread , I'll try to explain it in layman's terms for you because it seems too far above some peoples understanding , In my opinion most of the rhetoric of racism today is of the face-book mentality rather than , a modern understanding of the true forms of racism of the PAST - compared to it's definition by popular belief today . The- re-introduction of supposed racism by the proponents of the Obama campaign and eventual administration THAT is my point of contention between the introduced F-B racism and pre- sixties classic racism That which makes the racism call today , False flag racism .
For instance , when the media implies a "systematic racism" , as it has dozens of times , because of police shootings and the public distaste for police shootings of civilians , then this is true racism ? and then when statistics and the internal investigations prove that wrong . Isn't that then racist , or reverse racism , or at least bias ?
When our president jumps in at such media imposed false rhetoric FB racism , about police shootings and says they are " too common place and police procedure has to change " and then implies systematic racism , without the investigations even being complete , isn't that then the same bias as racism ?
I DO believe that the discussion of media bias , racism , reverse racism ," F-B racism ", systematic racism and their existence or not , is far to deep for many people here . Especially given the apparent inability of many here NOT to understand it's present day origins and social media manipulations .
Because I say THAT or refuse to except the popular F-B definition , doesn't make me the racist . But it may very well make you or many here biased . and so racists yourselves ?
Calling out something that ISN"T-- is just as bad as what you're calling out . Many , many here need to consider and ponder that fact alone . The O.P. has asked a serious question , and it requires far more than the apparent shallowness of many minds here today .
"One , "Natural selection " will do whatever it does without you or me deciding any of that"
I thought that was made clear...guess not.
"However to immediately determine one as 'of racism' because you disagree with the opine is just as biased or racist as determining a true racist . wouldn't you think , like it or not that is fact ."
Whether you like it or not, It's only a fact in your mind, so no, I don't think so. No one here has been more intolerant to the opinions and ideas of others than you have. And I don't disagree with the act of expressing opinion as we all have the right to our own. Furthermore, as Diane has pointed out more than once, opinions also expose the issues and may even present a solution. The problem enters when those "opinions" are racist or bias and manifest into the concrete world through actions or inactions. I'm not quite sure as to how you came to the conclusion that disagreeing with someones' opinion is racist, especially since you're one of the most disagreeable people here. Does that make you some sort of racist? Maybe, maybe not, but it does show a high level of not wanting to hear the opinions of others unless they are in line with your own.
" Here is one of my points all along this thread , I'll try to explain it in layman's terms for you because it seems too far above some peoples understanding"
Psy-Ops tactic #2 ; Belittle and insult all those who would disagree with you to the point of their giving way to your ideas or they just go away and allow your rhetoric to carry the day..
Once you do that Mr. Ahorseback, you have lost the respect of the intelligent commentors, and any point you may have becomes moot.
Have a nice day
ahorseback: How would you like it if Black Families moved into your neighborhood, would you be able to tolerate them? How would you like it, if one them wanted to marry one of your kids, had a child with them that looked more black then white and was shot by a police officer for doing nothing more than walking down the street?
No I'm not being racist. I'm giving you a typical scenario in this day and age. That as you say, natural selection provides. This is a reality today my friend. It is called the "graying of America. and Black Lives Matter." I know, you can blame it all on the liberal nanny state. But it is called a cultural shift that you and your ultra-conservative friends can't handle. That is why the GOP can't define themselves. It is because the country is changing and they can't find where to fit into a changing culture.
It is not Ozzie and Harriet T.V. anymore, where married couples slept in separate beds. It's where you see black and white people kissing and making love to each other on prime time T.V...can you handle it? It's where we have a black/white president for eight years where he and his family have been morally sound without any transgressions and with great poise and decorum. It is where he has succeeded in spite of all the road blocks that have been put before him with a conservative right wing congress.
Peoplepower ; In spite of your liberally inspired bias ! I will explain one of my impressions and inspirations of race relations to you today ! In my neighborhood - there ARE blacks - in my family in fact for your very small mind ! My daughter "white " is engaged and living with a "black" man and he is one of the finest men I've ever met and her , the same ., Certainly together THEY are more of an open minded couple than your biased , closed mind is capable of knowing .
Now that we have personal introductions out of the way , I have a suggestion for YOU , grow up ! Stop making moronic judgment calls and act like the elder you should have morphed into long ago .
And no, you may not be a racist , but you are a bigot .
This is where you open mouth and insert foot.
I have met several sock puppets on Hubpages who claim to be something they are not, or who tailor their argument to fit the narrative they want to promote . Some even have profile images that depict a black man or woman, when in reality they are as white as Wonderbread ! Your heartwarming tale about your future black son-in-law is touching. But somewhere between here and the twilight zone, your incessant Archie Bunker rhetoric simply doesn't fit with this new revelation. I am sure you and many others who share your mindset are wondering: "Where have all the "Good Negroes" and the "Wooden Indians" gone? But not to worry, they are all still here! The only difference is that , thanks to the internet and the media,you are now hearing about what people of color have been thinking, feeling, and going through for over 500 years. Perhaps it's time to circle the wagons and have one last pity party for the " Great White Champions of Democracy Pretending Jesus." GWCDPJ
ahorseback: Then what is your problem? You sure sound like a racists to me. And how am I a bigot? If you notice, I don't call you names other than an ultra-conservative, gun loving racists, but you call me every name in the book because you don't agree with me. Doesn't that make you the bigot? I don't have a closed mind. Remember, I'm a liberal. We love everybody and everything, including ultra-conservative, gun loving racists.
I'm glad I was able to bring out your family situation. This makes this a little bit like group therapy. I have a gay son who lives with a Puerto Rican guy. They couldn't be happier and my wife and I couldn't be happier. Now if I were a closed minded, do you think that would be the situation?
You're pretty much like Alternative power and wrenchbisquick and I'm pretty much done talking to you .
This article addresses what I alluded to in the changing balance of the population. For some reason there are groups of Hispanic (not all) and groups of Black (not all) people who hate each others' ethnic group. I don't understand it.
Hispanics are fast becoming the most populous group. How will that affect race relations?
L.A. Gang Firebombed Black Neighbors to Get Them ‘Out of the Neighborhood’
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 … SAMedition
The Latino Big Hazard gang wanted to keep black people out of its public housing complex—and threw Molotov cocktails into four apartments to do it, prosecutors allege.
I don't think a person's skin color makes any more difference than the color of their eyes or the color of their underwear. In my eyes, God is our father and he gave us earthly families so we could hopefully understand the importance of that and the importance of all of us being brothers and sisters. I think that it's important to recognize if someone is being mistreated for any reason including race and those issues should be worked out but I think that we are all pretty much on equal ground now with a very minimal number or people being mistreated because of racial differences; therefore, I think it's time we start putting more emphasis on what makes us all the same and stop putting so much emphasis on things that make us difference. Sometimes the emphasis gets so strong that I think it causes racial tension and biases for some people. Here's a couple things that I don't quite understand: why was it important to be called African American instead of black? If I went by that same set up I'd have to be called Irish, English, French-Canadian American. I have nieces and nephews who are half black and half white and I think they'd feel more comfortable being described as black. Another thing that confuses me is that after all it took to get people used to saying African American now people are reverting back to Black as in Black Lives Matters. I think a person heritage should be important to them for their own family background. I found it very interesting to learn about my ancestors. My Great Great Grampa was one of two white men lynched for being an outspoken Abolistionist. I'm glad that he cared about people and stood up for them and he didn't feel that he was better because of his skin color. I don't know much about my Irish ancestry. They may have been slaves too but that makes no difference to who I am and who I can become.
Hi HoneyBB, Thank you for joining!
What Black people are called is a product of the times. I've been through "colored, Negro, Black, Afro American and African American." I didn't have a choice about any of it. I don't know who decides. The decider is at a high enough level that the government adheres to it, uses it on censuses and other government documents.
The problem with racism is that people, who say they are not bigoted, take it personally. As far as they are concerned, if they aren't bigoted, then there is no bigotry. That is the great lie!!! If they don't have cancer, then there is no cancer. There is a lot of evil in this world. Is everyone evil? No! Does everyone do evil things from time to time? Probably
I have presented many instances of bigotry/racism on this forum. Most times, people don't address them. They change the discussion. If we can't deal with issues where they are, there will be no productive discussion.
I am not hositle to white people; however, I'd be a fool to say Black people are not hostile to white people. I have heard Black individuals say hostile and horrible things about white people. Did I agree? No! Depending on my relationship with people, I am able to counter sometimes.
Productive discussion has to deal with the world beyond me and how i am. Not everyone thinks alike.
BTW, we get pretty blunt here for productive discussion. Some have come and gone. I appreciate those who disagree and stay. As long as we are communicating, it is productive. We actually reveal more about ourselves than others ... I think.
In no way should the history be forgotten. She has every right to express that. I think it is because people are afraid of challenging what they believe and don't like the finger pointed at them. Like when Black Wall Street or slavery is brought up, a majority of white people tend to lash out and condemn the ones who bring it up. But we need to talk about history. That's how we learn from our mistakes.
I would agree. The problem is that even though we may learn from our mistakes we have the uncanny predisposition of not utilizing that which was learned. Maybe that'll change someday.
Kentucky fire chief refuse to help n*gg*rz???? Bigotry? Racism? His first admendment right?
Kentucky fire chief refuses to help black family after traffic accident: “We ain’t taking no n–gers here”
http://www.salon.com/2014/11/20/kentuck … gers_here/
“We ain’t taking no n–gers here,” Hatfield responded, laughing.
The footage also reveals the fire chief helping the other man involved in the traffic incident, Loren Dicken, who is white. According to WDRB, after Hatfield went out of his way to assist Dicken with a tire issue, the chief also had his firefighters pick the man up from the hospital when he was released.
These men refusing to help , they e should be not only fired but thrown into a cell !
But that won't happen because that type of behavior has been acceptable in this country for 250 years; especially in Billy Bob Land of rural Kentucky. But according to your past commentary, racism no longer exists in the United States. Would you like your crow rare, medium rare, or well done?
I posts these because people who do not do such things find it unbelievable that someone would. Many have not learned how to use social media and say stuff that makes them lose their jobs.
This guys had to have been in an environment where people knew he acted like this. He was so comfortable that he said it to the wrong person.
We are raised to believe that "good " people rule humanity and that "bad " people hide in the shadows of their own bitter hatred and disgusting behavior , and given THAT ALONE , reality dictates that idiots like this bigot will always be recognized wherever they go !
Let's face it if social media or any media does its originally intended job - This fool will never work again and die of drowning under a bridge somewhere , in his own hatred!
Only an idiot would say racism DOESN"T exist in individual incidents and just like the ego-centric elitism of many of your liberal lies, they too must be eliminated from our culture . But what doesn't exist , except in the minds of pseudo-intellectual liberals , IS THE EPIDEMNIC of racism that you and those like you spout forth with.
But lets face it , .....your dialog does promote the falsehood of the racism cause and effect right into media generated reality by the constancy and the volume of your rhetoric. One volunteer rescue fireman in red -neck co. Kentucky , one rogue cop in South Miami Florida , a motor vehicle employee in Denver Co. , among thousands and thousands of employees DOES NOT constitute systematic racism , ........just like a violence spreading socialist professor visiting the white house a few hundred times doesn't mean a president is a socialism activist ?
.
If racism doesn't exist , how do you account for the progeny of squatters and thieves still claiming this land as "theirs"? In a court of law, knowingly receiving stolen goods and property is also a crime; especially if a murder occurred while the crime was being committed. But the Americans created the concept of Manifest Destiny in order to hide behind the pretense that all of the raping, all of the stealing, and the genocide of over 100 million of my people was "God's will".
Now I will take you to school: The primary component of racism is not hate, but an unfounded and exaggerated sense of superiority. An evil nation does not hate the descendants of those who they robbed and butchered. They simply feel in their special arrogant way that we should be grateful they did not kill us all. Neither does an evil nation hate the descendants of the African slaves. Why would they hate the people who made America rich while their beloved forefathers went to church, went fishing,and enjoyed the attention of their captive mistresses? No, they do not hate them at all. They simply want them to act like they are sitting in the back of the bus, even when they are sitting in the front. No, it is not hate, but a false sense of superiority and entitlement that allows the Americans to feel comfortable with their ill-gotten wealth and standard of living. Consequently, it really doesn't matter how you "feel" about racism or minorities. What matters is that you are still here. Do you understand?
This is true! It's like he is from Medieval times.
Fifth Harmony has to be the most talented a cappella group in the world. They are all talented and intelligent. There is a "problem" with one of them. Why?
Fifth Harmony’s Normani Kordei takes break from Twitter over horrific racist cyberbullying
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainmen … -1.2742821
Several years back, there was a case in Martinez CA where a black man was being harassed by several coworkers. They were leaving nooses at his station. Past a certain point, he snapped and went postal. He shot and killed seven coworkers, then turned the gun on himself. He called 911 right before doing it and explained the situation; by the time they got there, it was too late.
"were leaving" sounds like a continuous threat. What did the employer do?
I heard about it over the news; they didn't say. My guess is the company did nothing. According to my experience, the San Francisco Bay area rarely takes bullying seriously. Then they wonder why things like this happen.
Attempted high school lynching?
High School Student Disciplined in Miss. Noose Incident
http://www.theroot.com/articles/news/20 … -incident/
Stone High football coach John Feaster says he has kicked the student off the team and that the victim has been handling the noose incident as well as he can.
Hate crime against white man. I'm looking up reverse cases for fairness
Police Chief Pushes For Hate Crime Charges in Black Mob Beating of White Man
Reversal prompted by "public outrage"
http://www.infowars.com/police-chief-pu … white-man/
After initially backing away from reports that the July 4 beating of a white man by a black mob was racially motivated, Cincinnati Police Chief Jeffrey Blackwell is now pushing for hate crime charges to be filed.
Both these attacks are racially motivated hate crimes, and should be treated as such. Minimizing what happened in Cincinnati will serve to incite more animosity of whites against blacks, leading to more of the types of the incident that happened in Mississippi.
Trump supporter has two blacks hanging from tree next to Trump sign. Why? It's Halloween.
This is the craziest election ever. My girl, Tera Setamayer, is endorsing Evan mcMullin. Ana Navarro is another of my favorites. It will be interesting to see what she does.
People are now putting Trumpsters on Twitter saying racist stuff like JEW-U-A instead of USA? Go figure?
Are all policeman good policeman? What about an officer that gives a homeless person a feces sandwich?
San Antonio Police officer fired for allegedly giving fecal sandwich to homeless person
SAN ANTONIO — SAN ANTONIO – A San Antonio police officer is fired after bragging to his partner he gave a homeless person a feces sandwich.
The department identifies the officer as Matthew Luckhurst, who had been on the force five years.
In an exclusive interview, SAPD Chief William McManus disavowed the officer’s alleged behavior.
"It's a disgrace to the department. It's a disgrace to the badge,” he said. “It’s an attack on dignity, human dignity.”
The alleged incident happened back in May.
"The officer's accused of putting feces on bread, putting it in a Styrofoam carryout container and putting it next to a homeless person,” Chief McManus said.
The Chief says the officer told his bike patrol partner what he had done, and the partner told him to take back the feces sandwich.
"So he supposedly walked back or rode back, took the container and threw it in the trash can,” Chief McManus said.
The story circulated through the department, triggering an internal affairs investigation in July. Last week, Chief McManus fired Luckhurst.
"He said it was a practical joke,” the Chief described how Luckhurst characterized what happened.
Luckhurst has hired a private attorney, Ben Sifuentes. Sifuentes declined an on-camera interview, but spoke with us over the phone.
“The Chief’s allegations are not true,” Sifuentes said.
Sifuentes says his client was joking with other officers and that there were no witnesses to the alleged incident. Luckhurst is appealing his termination, a process that could take six to nine months.
Investigators haven’t been able to find the homeless man who allegedly received the feces sandwich.
In recent years, SAPD’s worked to soften its approach with homeless people and get them back on their feet.
"We've taken 50 steps forward as far as our dealings with the homeless goes and this puts us 100 steps backwards - the act of one particular officer,” Chief McManus said.
Major Ivy Taylor released the following statement concerning the alleged incident: “Firing this officer was the right thing to do. His actions were a betrayal of every value we have in our community, and he is not representative of our great police force."
http://katv.com/news/nation-world/san-a … ess-person
The blue includes many Black men and women who risk their lives everyday for the community.
This deceased officer was a colleague of my cousin, Heath Nelson, who is also an outstanding, selfless defender of citizens.
09/12 - ON THIS DAY - Corporal Mark Wesley Carthron #11
Take time to remember Corporal Mark Wesley Carthron, who was killed in the line of duty on this date in 2005, at the age of 31. Corporal Mark Carthron was struck and killed while retrieving stop sticks he had deployed during a vehicle pursuit on I-40 in Crittenden County.
The suspect's vehicle struck the stop sticks, bringing it to a halt. As Corporal Carthron retrieved the strips, he was struck by a state police vehicle that was involved in the pursuit. Corporal Carthron was transported to a hospital in Memphis, Tennessee, where he succumbed to his injuries at 12:31 am the following morning.
The two suspects involved in the pursuit were driving a stolen vehicle and were wanted for an armed robbery of a service station. The driver of the stolen vehicle was convicted of capital murder and sentenced to life in prison. The passenger was convicted of robbery and theft charges and sentenced to 30 years.
Corporal Carthron had served with the Arkansas State Police for 8 years.
A HERO REMEMBERED NEVER DIES!!
Kind-hearted cop buys a car seat for struggling father’s 3-year-old daughter
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa … -1.2615287
There are good officers. We, my family and friends, post good officer stories often. I want officers in my family to feel the love and support.
What is wrong with having a) community policing and b) officer training. Teachers must have training once a month.
Through training we learn specific needs of the target group that we work with. We learn what the latest gang paraphenalia, tattoos and attire are. It helps us to be more aware of things that require that we take additional measures and notify administration or child protective services if we need to do so.
Why are people complaning about on the job training?
If there were "bean counters " for only positive posts how many positive posts would there be in this thread ?
Just asking .
You can help me ahorse! Come on. Get the lead out!
Ah! So you are not going to answer the question.
ahorse, I stated this badly several weeks ago. This morning Danielle Allen, prominent historian, and Fareed Zakaria noted that the US population is balancing out to the point that there will not be a "majority" group. How will co-exist proceed?
Do you remember me addressing that, evidently pretty badly? Given the trend, I can see the majority of people not wanting to emphasize certain holidays. They may want to add some of their own. Policy may change. I can't thing of one right now; however, given time, I can come up with something. Will there be fractured groups who are frustrating by not feeling valued?
More than the diversity that America has always been and is today ? What's the addition of a few new holidays between friends ? How about MS -13 Friday , or maybe ISIS Fiesta Day, or maybe we could do a Sharia Court Sunday ? All paid holidays of course .
Seriously ,he problem has never been the additional ethnicities coming to America - but the impending De- Americanization of our overall basic culture. In other words when people leave "over there " to come "over here " for the freedoms of "here " then they do not assimilate to " Here " but bring" there to here "- Then what happens is ---"Here" becomes" There ".
Sharia Law is the perfect example of that - The Muslim Brotherhood and similar names are suing for that now .!
If that doesn't bother you , it should.
Today I saw a makeup commercial with a beautiful Muslim lady wearing a hijab and "makeup." I thought they are supposed to cover their faces. I can see this becoming very dangerous for some Muslim women.
I think "communities" might create a problem from the standpoint of one community exalted itself over another (almost like gangs). You can't date someone from a particular community because .... - not good.
My neighborhood is multiethnic and I like it that way. We all get along and people wave at each other as we leave and return home. My church is multiethnic also.
I live in very rural New England , the same thing exists in the small cities and towns all around here , skin colors , costumes , head gear , political diversity , ethnic diversity Yet , so many think America's right is bigoted , biased , bully-ish and that is so unfair !
Stop believing the media , That would be a great beginning for all of us .
And although the diversion of this election is over this conversation should go on forever .
ahorse, I am really concerned that some Muslim(s) man will get upset about the Americanization of Muslim women. The women are really beautiful and I really feel badly for them when it is 100+ degrees outside and they have to cover up.
About a month ago, a guy killed his sister. I don't know if you remember that or not. It was in a Middle Eastern country. It could just as easily happen here.
Maybe I am a pollyanna but I really wish we could all live together, participate in America and care about each other.
Diane , Honor killings , rapes , beatings , private incarcerations are happening right here in America , the media just isn't reporting it , This hypocrisy of gender control , violence and exploitation is absolutely horrific. They ARE a truly beautiful women - and should be protected as such. Why is it that we all cannot focus on this immediately ? The middle east is living in the eleventh century as to cultural- religious maturity , and trying to devolve our maturity in order to assimilate US to THEM?
Can we not just move forward as one race , as one people ?.
Our discussion will go on ! Congratulations on 1,850 comments here , YOU are winning !
I think, even though it gets difficult, our success is because we all reallyl want to be heard and to listen to others. Thank you ahorse!
Expressing anger or hurt is not nonproductive unless we are not willing to hear the same from others. It was very enlightening to hear about the rust belt and group of disenfranchised people who feel they have not been heard.
It would be wonderful if these conversations could be held in small groups all over the US.
Diane , Even creating a national holiday for that very purpose shouldn't be out of the question :
National Communication Day ?
Human Relations Day ?
American Ethnic Celebration Day ?
It will be the good people of America who do it though , not the government , Blessings !
and encouraging that it be practiced every day.
Christians should not just act like Christians in church on Sunday. It is a 24/7 commitment. When we practice a behavior, it becomes part of us.
I'm praying that assessment will take place in both the Democratic and Republican parties as well as people in the middle of the country v.s. people on both coasts. I'm hearing good points to pursue from pundits.
Rhetorical questions just running through my head. No need to respond.
1. Was Donald Trump a Democrat bamboozling Republicans into thinking he was one of them?
2. Did Obama easily explain that Afforadable Healthcare Act is a good program that requires tweaking?
3. Did Trump include Bannon as his strategist to please the fringe right - balancing power between Bannon and Priebus?
4. Has anyone noticed how reasonable Trump appears these days? Was Ben Carson right when he said Trump is different in a private setting? The rallies were just reality TV.
6. What is going to make America great again?
7. Protestors baffle me. Why are non-voters and Clinton voters protesting together?
Does any of it impact racial interactions which are reeeeally complicated now and include social interactions as well? (Black, Hispanic, Muslim, Asian, LGBTQ, abortion, electoral college)
Trump has his work cut out for him.
Diane , I fear for the falsity of leftist applied the importance the to discussion of race relations and how it will fall through their own political cracks now . I believe that when people speak so loudly during an election that it is one of two reasons , one, just an opportunity for political discourse and politic capital , proven in US. history. ---or two a truly important issue.
What the alt-left did with race relations is to exploit it for political capital - fact . What the middle America did was watch as that issue became six o'clock media riot , By now , most people are finally grasping the fact that the media was extremely biased to this very same alt- left . After these riots die down AND the rioters go back to figuring out why they are failing their mid- terms , after a president-elect takes his first holiday and the Clintons retire to Cape Cod , what happens to our collective conscience ?
What happens to the incredible poverty of blacks in the inner cities , or in Appalachia , or in rural Texas? What becomes of this Non- issue to the DNC or the alt-left , do you believe they really cared other than for votes enough to continue the importance of this political attention ? When does the black America re-evaluate it's allegiance to the left ? To believe that the political left is always the eye's and ears of blacks in politics and in America ?
I suggest that THAT is all the black vote meant to THIS election on the left ?
Keep it alive Diane .
It is quite remarkable that you conveniently gloss over the fact that Donald Trump did more to damage race relations in this country in just a few months than Obama did in an entire eight years! In spite of the fact that Obama has falsely been accused of playing the race card, no one can deny that he never threatened to deport all of the white people whose forefathers came here illegally and committed crimes against humanity. In fact, he never threatened any particular racial or ethnic group.You should thank God that I am not President. Trust and believe that I would not hesitate to balance the scales.
Having an election hang-over is hell ? I suggest Irish coffee ",top-a- the mo[u]rning."
Fact , as Trump has ultimately promised , there will come a wall that illegals will merely have to climb a little higher to get over , while Legal immigrants will continue as if nothing at all has happened !
Fact , someone like yourself would have to mature mentally before you could be elected president.
Fact , race relations were heavily and negatively exploited by this administration and by Hilary ; the people themselves decided she didn't take racism alone seriously at all ! That's your bad.
Fact, Trump will accomplish more for race relations in reality than ten of either Hilary or Obama.
Fact, Not one illegal will be deported that hasn't brushed heavily with the law . Watch !
Fact, a lot of trumps promises will not come to fruition .
Fact, more knowledgeable ethnicities probably voted for Trump than against him
ahorse, I agree that not many of Trump's ideas will be fulfilled. He modified thinking on Affordable Health Care. This morning Ryan didn't say "get rid of it." He talked about the problems created by it and that something needs to be done to fix it.
It seems apparent that at the same time they get rid of Obamacare, they will have to replace it with something.
Trump really dose not know what is doing any more than other professional liar's.
It seem he is making some adjustments to Obama care. Then many other things he can't change because it's impossible to change like gays, race and other religions. Trump fear of Muslims is a huge super Islamophobia threat causing 23℅ of the World's population a deep concern when threatens by nukes. No non white or non Christians group in America voted for Trump. Since the vast majority of the world's population would not vote for Trump because of their race and religion.
Look forward for America to pay for hell on earth in the future. Majority will win even if America is not a true democracy.
I know he is a liar. He may also be finding out that it is easier to complain about the president than it is to be president. I said the same thing when Obama was taking office.
It's like, "Everything will be better when you do it my way!" That's ego and naivete.
One day you , like all of the alt -left , will have to evolve to new rants , the election rants don't work anymore, race baiting , sexist , all the rest .......... Lets get on to building a country from the Obama ruins !
Without building your best natural resources people. You will continues importing most of your food and products than export. Another thing America is number 1 at, is importing.
From newsreports and listening to pundit round tables, I gathered that the main issue is not race but poverty.
As long as white Zionist group like Rothschild bankers owning 500 trillion. Along with other greedy Corporatism we keep feeding.
There will always be Greedy taking more and giving you less.
Don't go after Muslims and other races. Go after bankers and oil kings . They are the ones that keep all of us fighting each other while they steal most of our money.
Someone was trying to tell me that the Rothschilds are into the illuminati....presidents too. I told the person I believe it is hogwash.
Greedy I can believe.
They go by different names the most common thread is the Zionist (fake jews) they are the ones who have taken over Israel from the Palestinians. On top Rothschild and Rockefeller that have funded both sides of world war 1 and 2 and now on war 3.
The Israel project take over of the Middle East and frontlines now in Russia and China. Trump is a Zionist with family members throughout.
What sources do you read for this information?
How would one get top secret information while Zionist own most mainstream media that controls the minds of the people?.
Google stories about Zionist on YouTube, then sort out that connect their dots with good sense and sound facts.
There are more (and will be more as time goes on) freedom fighters than illuminati/zionists.
In the end, what is more precious than GOLD? Maybe you don't know the answer or you will say romantic bs illusions … Well, here is the actual answer for those who haven't one tiny iota of a conscious clue …
F R E E D O M
The race baiting thing slays me. I started with "How is Michelle Obama race baiting?" Same about Obama...what specifically did he do that was considered race baiting?
He said, "That could have been my son!" Many parents think about that when something happens to a child that is similar to theirs. Trayvon did look like he could have been Obama's son.
Exactly Diane! Not one of the naysayers who accuse Obama of racism can name any significant comment or policy that supports such a claim. The fact is, many white Americans didn't like Obama simply because of the color of his skin. I have also heard ad nauseam the false notion that the election of Obama proves that racism no longer exist's in America. But the fact that Trump was elected and is supported by many white supremacist hate groups clearly contradicts that ridiculous notion.
My opinion is that neither Obama or Trump were elected "by the people". In fact I believe that "all" U.S. Presidents, at least since Woodrow Wilson, have been elected by a shadow government. Consequently, they only represent the current face of the puppet masters who control them. My theory is supported by the fact that the first black President has been followed by the first openly racist, sexist, and under qualified white supremacist. It reads like a Hollywood script, and I think that the ruling elite are enjoying the spectacle of "divide and conquer". The very rich win in every Presidential election, and just like with Obama, Trump won't make a move without the approval of the "main office". If they would have told Obama to build a wall then a wall would have been built. But that wouldn't have fit the script as well. And it may have even ingratiated many racist white Americans, or at least those on the fence, to Obama, and softened their attitude toward blacks in general.
If I Were an Ant, a Cockroach, or a Slithering Snake
If I were an evil Euro-Puppet Master pulling the strings, I would direct Donald to clean up the inner cities and reduce the crime rate. At the same time I would lower even further the glass ceiling for minority owned businesses. This would certainly confound the masses and create an even greater division. It would help to illustrate and promote the fiction that the white man is benevolent toward minorities, and makes the superior leader. At the same time it would prevent minorities from gaining any economic parity, or real power. In effect, such a tactic would be the same as a slave-master cutting back on torture and cruelty, and improving living conditions, while making the shackles and chains of servitude even harder to break. Of course, the simple minded racist Billy Bob's would jump up and say, "See! Donald Trump did more for the inner city blacks than Obama!" They would proudly trot out their statistics to back up their claims. And of course, there would be people of color who would also agree. But neither group would notice the glass ceiling being lowered even further on black businesses. As a result, the false racist narrative that Asians can immigrate and be successful, yet a majority of blacks have no motivation or business acumen, would continue and be magnified. Thus, white supremacy would be maintained and reinforced.
ahorse, it appears that jobs and small businesses and their success/failure is the bottom line. When people have income that is sufficient to support their families and provide a little excess, morale will improve.
Small business success will depend on the ability to pay fair wages and provide health insurance.
Bringing jobs back to America should not be expected to be the exact jobs we did back in the 20th century. I was a systems auditor for Hughes Aircraft, a defense contractor. The prevailing attitude was "we are a non-profit so it doesn't matter whether we make money or not." That was totally ridiculous though I didn't voice it. It was way above my pay grade. My director was a retired captain in the army. His objective was to raise his rank in the company by bringing systems under his control. He went from section head to manager to assistant director to director. That was the tipping point. Our department drew attention and them came the mass layoffs and budget cuts.
New jobs and businesses will have to use social media, advanced technology and "out of the box" thinking in order to be successful. That means a) becoming educated and b) hiring the best, i.e. Silicon Valley. Workers expecting to work on assembly lines like they did back in the day is foolish. People must start educating themselves NOW!
Bigotry is still alive, cruel and denigrating. Reference to "ape in heels" in the White House
In the wake of Donald Trump’s surprise win, Pamela Ramsey Taylor, the director of the Clay County Development Corp., took to Facebook to express her delight with getting rid of the “ape in heels” in the White House, an apparent reference to first lady Michelle Obama.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/201 … ce=copyurl
:Ape in heels: That is part true because every race on earth has the black DNA blood within their bodies. Where not one other race can claim that scientific fact. Human are 99% biological the same as monkeys and apes. I must be an part artist Ape, once as a child I told a black girl we are all part Ape. She slapped me so hard I saw stars and it hurt for a week. Oh! Thank goodness we are on the internet.
No problem. You believe in evolution. I believe in creationism. I was wonderfully made in the image of God. Guess what....U 2!
It may be based on evolution; however, I've only know this type of commentary as it relates to Black people.
I'm Spiritual rather than Religious meaning 99% of this planet is 99% unknown to each and everyone of us . Even evolution crosses over to more people than any one Religion dose .
It would be arrogant or not
to be acknowledge able enough to claim either side is right or if any human can. Creationism earth began over 6000 years ago. That would cancell out the vast majority of well documented civilizations.
The fairytales of religion and politics is beyond my understanding and visions of coming true. Only the ultimate love of a loving couple fairytales, I have faith in coming becoming true.
The whole basis of Christianity is faith. It makes way more sense to me that people evolving. There are some strange looking people in this world but I haven't seen a fish ape or an ape human.
It is so interesting how people believe what they believe. I'm not pointing anyone out. I mean everyone of us believes something. We all can't be right.
I believe love trumps all and leads to a productive discussion and eternal life.
I'm not mad because you are an evolutionist. I hope you are not mad because I am a Christians. The good thing is that we are in countries where we can all express what we believe.
This comment was disgusting , and from an intellectual too , Right ?.........but we do not get to associate these people and this rhetoric born somewhere in the human sewer , with the Trump president elect ! That just doesn't add up . Personally , I see just as much bias and pigeonholing of people as a tactic of the left as I do from the right . Is prejudiced and bias inherently from the lowly born ignorant redneck then ? Nope ,apparently not , and that is where I came from .
Just Why is it that prejudiced seems just as prevalent , perhaps probably more so from the halls of the ivory towers , as it would seem to be from the level of main street.? The evil of the human heart in America knows no intellectual , income or ideological boundaries .
We must all walk away from such ignorance. I once knew a man who , when told a colorful joke about women , sex , race , etc..........would simply stare blankly at you , turn and walk away . That guy had a heart .
I totally agree that all bigotry does not come from White people. I don't think it has much to do with wealth.
I miss my classes soo much. We talked about bigotry and hatefulness. There were gang and racial confrontations all the time. I remember reading an article about a 3 year old getting killed because he had red hair. Many people have a need to try to elevate themselves by putting others down.
I was really proud of my husband last month. He usual refers to the neighbors next door as "the Mexicans." He knows it irritates me. Last month the neighbor's dog was lose and came into our garage. After he walked out I let the garage door down and told my husband I would call the neighbors. He said, "No, I'll handle it." In my mind, I said, "Oh ish!" To my surprise, my husband knew the names of the husband, wife, son and even the dog, Nacho! The surprise was that he had been having friendly exchanges with them.
JUST WANTED TO GET BACK TO THE BASICS:
I keep coming across evidence that white against black racism isn't nearly as bad as it was 60 plus years ago. What does exist is mainly caused by the astronomical crime rate in most African American communities. That is why we're getting all these paranoid shootings of unarmed black men by white cops. Whites are sick and tired of hearing about racism when blacks have made such great strides. 36% of blacks are middle class. The wealthiest woman in the US is black. So crime rates and illegitimacy have soared - who's fault is that??? Also, can you really fault the whites for fearing blacks???
You should read more. I suggest the Library of Congress Online would be a good place to start. During the antebellum the average white racist was sick and tired of hearing the abolitionists bemoan the institution of slavery.And many of the arguments in favor of evil were similar to what we hear today concerning the issue of racism. And that is when black people were literally walking around in chains!
I have never witnessed a black person who had so many negative things to say about their own race. And I grew up around black people, and have been involved in Civil Rights Activism since I was a child. However, it is not uncommon for an individual to adopt a persona online with the purpose of denigrating the race or organization that they claim to represent.
RW - I won't tell you my full story, because it is no fit to print on the web. I will reveal this much:. From ages 8 - 12, I was forced to deal with continuous physical and mental abuse, and sexual molestation, all from blacks. When I got a black eye in the seventh grade, a white counselor saw fit to intervene. It was after that I was sent to a Christian school.
Slavery is no excuse for the way my highly immoral and dysfunctional family behaved. Even our social worker got disgusted. I HAVE been doing a lot of reading. On sites where white people are free to speak their minds without being politically correct, they're saying if blacks don't like the way things are here, they can go back to Africa. Excellent point - especially seeing how corrupt the governments are there!
I am currently experiencing PTSD, and because of political correctness, have no one to discuss these issues with. Perhaps I should not allow this to bleed into the web, but I doubt I'm the only one experiencing this. I understand author Alice Walker has gone through similar situations.
Don't mean to be insensitive, but don't you ever stop? Just because there is one wealthy black woman does not mean that racism has gone away. I have had more than my share of trouble from whites over a lifetime, but I don't go around blaming every white person for them.
We're not going anywhere but will continue to fight as we always had to make this society the way it should be. I don't care what such whites say, who rather dismiss the problem rather than figure out how to make it better for all. The demographics will tell the tale over the coming decades. If there is one thing that is true, current circumstances will not remain static. So where will the inevitable future find you?
I am sorry about your PTSD, but you surely are not blaming that on blacks, as well.
racism will not go away by exaggerating it, by pinpointing it. By acting like it is impossible to eradicate it. It will take one black person at time to get over his self-doubt, his insecurity, his lack of hope, his fear, his tendency to blame others, his inability to achieve what he wants. It will take one white person at a time to get over his self-doubt, his insecurity, his lack of hope, his fear, his tendency to blame others, his inability to achieve what he wants. It will take one Asian person, one Eastern European person, one alien, one human at a time to REACH his POTENTIAL and overcome the downward pull of his human (or alien) nature.
You know a real alien, I hope it is not one of those assume illegal ones. Lol.
I had a very abusive alcohol father growing up.
I got sexual molested at age 13 on a swim trip by a gay man. Because gay sex was a criminal offence then and it was said to be a mentally illness. I was almost suicidal, yet escape into sports. Then discovered that I was my own best doctor in the world, most important person and loved myself first.
Found out I did not have the gay desire and it was not my fault. Even though there is nothing wrong with gay sex, except I was under age.
I have heard you say this sexual pass before. It was not your fault, your happiness will depend alot on the things you must forget. Forgive the people that harmed you because it will damage you more than it will damage them.
You are no better or no worst than anyone else including white people. Let greedy white people choke on their money, because money has the least to do with happiness.
Find that one thing, your happiness.
Love from castle without the hassle.
Castlepaloma - I am truly sorry for your horrific experience! Of course it's not the victim's fault; why would ANYONE ask for something like that, especially a child?!
I need to point out that forgiveness is a greatly misunderstood concept. Someday, I will write a hub about an experience I had regarding forgiveness. It is about my best friend who wound up taking advantage of me and treating me like a fool - but that's another subject.
American society as we know it was established by bullying, and silencing victims by blaming them. We are now in the process of healing; as a result, we are one of the greatest societies on Earth. Healing involves acknowledging what we did wrong, and making amends where it's called for. It also includes properly admitting and venting our frustrations, in a healthy way.
Europeans are excellent at spotting opportunities and making the most of them (examples; the large deposits of gold and diamonds in Africa and the Americas). Nothing is wrong in using those opportunities; however, they should have shared fairly with the natives instead of exploiting them. As for the Africans who fell victim to the slave trade, they need to realize the Europeans did not do that by themselves. Africans need to recognize their role in the matter. They also need to confront the fact that their countries tend to have corrupt governments, which is why 75% of the poorest nations in the world are in Africa. Even Haiti, which overthrew slavery nearly 60 years before the US and is 90% black, is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere.
P.S. My parents are from Haiti!
Been to Haiti, if UN and American were true humanitarian they would helping these poorest areas not helping themselves to the oil in Muslims countries.
If it always better to be open about these taboos topics rather than hiding them into secret society. It is best to start within your own circle than expand. Looks like your ready.
You are confusing apples with oranges. I knew a woman who told me some years ago that she was adopted as an infant. She revealed that from the age of 3 years old to the age of 16 she was raped and molested by 2 of her uncles who were grown men from the get-go. The victim and the perpetrators were all white. In fact, rape is more prevalent among whites. And all of the so-called "colored people" or light skinned blacks are a direct result of slaves, and later freed black women being raped with impunity by whites. If blacks want to compete with whites in the arena of rape and sexual abuse, then they have over 400 years of catching up to do.
Yes, this abuse lasted non-stop for over 400 years! Yet, you suggest that whites have a reason to fear blacks! Sorry, but it's just the opposite. Anyone who knows the truth understands that when we look at yesterday, today, and then contemplate tomorrow, it is the black man who has more to fear from the white man, as the white man's capacity for evil has already been proven through 500 years of slavery, genocide, and Jim Crow. Furthermore, over ten thousand black people have never congregated in one place to watch a young white man or teenager being tortured,burned, and lynched. But during Jim Crow, more than ten thousand whites came together on several occasions to "enjoy" the sadistic spectacle of the public torture and murder of black people.
And that's not counting hundreds of lynching's that took place in more intimate settings of just a few, or several hundred white psychopaths. It is a testament to the patience and the forgiving nature of the black race in America that they have yet to go full "Nat Turner" on their oppressors, as was the case in Haiti; a country which has been punished economically by the Europeans ever since daring to defy white supremacy. And just recently the Clinton Foundation stole 2 billion dollars from the Haitian Relief Fund. https://geopolitics.co/2016/10/11/haiti … ief-funds/
Concerning your comments about Africa: I suppose it didn't cross your mind that the problems in Africa today are a direct result of hundreds of years of Colonialism. And the current destabilization of Libya is a direct result of U.S. Imperialism. Even Hillary Clinton admitted it was a mistake. There have been great civilizations in Africa. One of the most notable is Egypt. And yes, in spite of the Eurocentric denial of Black Supremacy, there is much evidence that suggests that a great many ancient Egyptians were Black. One needs only look at an image of the great Sphinx and they can see that the face of the Sphinx has the features of a black man or woman. Egypt was for thousands of years one of the greatest civilizations in the world. It is no wonder that racists continue to deny the obvious.
And just as we have witnessed the results of miscegenation in this country that have occurred over just 500 years, it is not surprising that over several thousand years the mixing between the darker and lighter skinned Africans, and Middle Eastern people, would produce what we see today. And the Sphinx is very telling. Look at all of the monuments erected here to honor Colonialism. Most of them have European features. And you don't see any Black or Indigenous faces at Mt. Rushmore. Most of the monuments here depict images of the ruling race. And this can be seen all over the world. A monument as grand, as costly, and as difficult to erect as the Great Sphinx would not wear a black face unless those who ruled the land at that time were also black and members of a majority.
WR - I am fully aware Egyptians are black. I had an Egyptian coworker once, and anyone who has seen a map of Africa should be aware of where Egypt is located.
What you say about rape does not surprise me. I've read from several sources that While the vast majority of rapes occur within the same race, this is not the case on reservations. Women who live on reservations are also the most vulnerable.
Blacks and Native Americans share a lot of history, but blacks have separate issues to deal with. Toussaint L'Ouverture was absolutely brilliant in the way he freed Haiti. So what is Papa Doc's excuse? And how do blacks expect to advance in this country with all the black -on black crime, and denigration of their women?
About your friend - many white women who go for black men have told me similar stories. The black men tend to be lowlifes, but they're an improvement over what the women were forced to live with.
"Black men tend to be lowlifed." It is so amazing to read the stereotypical bigoted things people write and are truly unaware of what they are saying.
What is the definition of low life?
Who are they expected to live with?
Yes, you seem to have a deep anger or hatred of Black people. It seems to be based on what happened to you as a child. When I tell of what happened to me as a child, I'm considered whining, or making myself a victim, or bringing up the past or something. What I went through did not cause me to hate white people or blame others. I got an education and have been a hard working citizen with no police record. Am I "what they are expected to live with?" You seem to have such a feeling of superiority. It sounds like you might need some group therapy.
I'm not mad but I am appalled.
I did not say all black men are lowlifes. I said the aforementioned white women tend to go for those types of black men. I am fully aware not all black men are lowlifes, anymore than all white women are dysfunctional molestation victims.
What you said...
"About your friend - many white women who go for black men have told me similar stories. The black men tend to be lowlifes, but they're an improvement over what the women were forced to live with."
About your friend - many white women who go for black men have told me similar stories. The black men tend to be lowlifes, but they're an improvement over what the women were forced to live with.
I interpet this to mean that many white men are either have bad judgment in selecting men When they DO choose Black ment, they choose lowlifes. Do any of them choose Black men who are not lowlifes.
You speak of being traumitized by Black kids in elementary school. I don't know howlong ago you are in elementary school. Emmett Till was brutally killed for whistling at a white woman. As a teacher, myself, I know that students who are bullied MUST notify a teacher. Administration should handle students who bully and the students should be expelled from school.
I wonder why they selected you to bully. If they bullied others in the class, it would have been obvious that they were troublemakers. It seems as you are a magnet for mistreatment by Black people. Could it be something that you do that draws their ire?
I'm not saying that no Black kids bully. However, those they bully tend to bully many - not just one person. If you do not report these things, you cannot expect support from teachers. They can lose their jobs by allowing someone to harrass others. When I saw signs of any students harrassing others, I was all over it.
No matter black or white when problems are not confronted and adjustments to those problems are not made, the problems grow deeper.
Diane , I like the way you go for solutions. Being colour blind from all my traveling. For each individual person I deal with it is tit for tat game , the best game to play for solutions.
Thank you Castle!
I was half asleep. I'm sorry for typos and grammatical errors.
We don't necessarily have to agree but it is important that each side be heard. I'm not trying to make enemies.
You lead an interesting life.
Diane - yes, I was a major target for black bullies. Yes, those bullies targeted others, including those of other races. As I have stated several times before, the powers that be at the school and in my home were indifferent. I will add I had poor social skills, and was a coward; no doubt, that made the situation worse.
Looking back, the only time any positive action happened, with the exception of the social worker stepping in, is when I took it upon myself to inform the mother of one of my tormentors. I now realize the parents of the bullies probably never knew what was going on. I should have notified as many parents as I could. Also, there's a possibility if I had fought back with a stick, like Richard Wright did on his mother's orders at the ripe old age of 6, perhaps my authority figures would never have found out, and I would not have to fear being put in the snake pit Juvenile Hall.
I was not a socially shrewd person when I was young. I'm trying to use my 50+ year old wisdom to figure out where I went wrong in many areas of my life. I like to pretend I'm my older sister, but I'm having trouble telling my preadolescent self what to do.
Your answers to the problem are correct, but you must realize that's not how it's usually done in the ghetto. One typical story in Stormfront tells of a white teacher who was not raised be racist, but became so when her black students kept bullying others, and when she reported them to their parents (nearly always a single mother), they were either indifferent or blamed her for being hypersensitive.
I believe blacks really need to address one major reason why racism exists. While 90% of blacks in this country are descendants of slaves, only 5% of whites are descendants of slave owners. Most of the states did not have slavery, and the northern ones were more benevolent and even ended slavery earlier.
This issue doesn't just concern whites. Remember when I told about the Chinese boy who was tormented by the black girl, until he lost control and killed her? I have come across numerous Asians who expect me to be a racist bully. Some blacks may take offense, but I know where that's coming from, so I calmly show them I'm not like that. I have never had a problem with an Asian.
Some Stormfront posters list where they're from. I don't recommend it, but you can do a tour of those cities if you wish: Oakland, Cincinnati, Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, to name a few. Then you'll see what they mean.
This is not a popular, politically correct subject, but if it's not properly addressed, racism will only get worse for blacks.
You commented to Diane: "...Your answers to the problem are correct, but you must realize that's not how it's usually done in the ghetto..."
It appears your entire world view concerning black people is associated with the ghetto. And you, as well as others. tell the story in such a way that a visitor from another planet might assume that only black people live in ghettos, and that white people and Asians all live in good neighborhoods and are all employed. For the first 17 years of my life I never knew any black people living in a ghetto, and I knew plenty. It wasn't until I enlisted in the military and went to San Diego and Long Beach California, Compton, Watts,and Tijuana that I saw any real poverty.
And then you talk about stories at "Stormfront". LOL! What kind of accurate information do you think you will get from a racist online forum that is dedicated to perpetuating white supremacy? That's like trying to develop an accurate opinion of Jews by hanging out with Nazi's. Unless you have led the most horrible life of any black person in the history of the United States, surely you would have connected somewhere along the line, like most people do, with your father, mother, a sibling, friend, or a relative. And in doing so you would see the humanity of the black race. You would not be so heavily influenced by one sided statistics and stories that are churned out through racist propaganda. Nor would you allow your personal experiences to serve as a general indictment of the majority of black people.
And your take on American history leaves out quite a lot. You apparently don't realize that there were Europeans who were against slavery in 1492! The fact that it took white people who were actually human beings nearly 400 years to convince the majority to end the institution of slavery does not speak well of the majority. Furthermore, even though slavery was outlawed in the North, the Northerners still helped to perpetuate slavery by relying on cotton and other products produced by slave labor. And of course, there were the New York Draft riots during the Civil War , where innocent black people were killed by angry whites who blamed them for the war.
Yes, it appears that you have some real issues.
First of all, I had to research Stormfront because I'd never heard of it. Now that I have done my research, I can tell that the story you related about the teacher becoming a racist is just an excuse. Other comments from slime bags on Stormfront:
"Pure nigger or mixed nigger, is that really matters [sic]?? Nigger. Period."
— "war2war," 2008 post to Stormfront
"The critically important concepts of pulling your own weight and not leeching off other parts of society are alien concepts to Blacks. They realize that on their own, they will never have very much so they happily take all the welfare and other hand outs they can get even if this makes them parasites. They don't have any qualms about stealing millions of jobs and promotions thanks to racial quotas — this is the last government-approved racial discrimination program, which has gone on for four decades."
— "Whiterights," 2008 post to Stormfront
"Beating down a mud [a non-white person] when they try to poisen [sic] one of our own or when they try to seduce one of our girls may not be God inspired, but rather a righteous act of collective preservation."
— Preston Wiginton, Stormfront.org post, 2007
"Our mission is to provide information not available in the controlled news media and to build a community of White activists working for the survival of our people."
— From "Guidelines for Posting," Stormfont.org
"White Pride Worldwide"
— Stormfront.org motto
About the slime bag Don Black who started the Stormfront site
Background
Don Black, a former Klan leader who served three years in prison for plotting to overthrow a Caribbean island government, was the first hate propagandist to fully appreciate the potential of the Internet. After learning to operate and program computers in prison, he emerged to set up Stormfront in March 1995, just a month before the Oklahoma City bombing. Being the first of its kind helped Stormfront win enormous publicity. Black and his site, run out of his Florida home, were written up in newspapers around the country and the world. He also frequently appeared on major network news shows like ABC's "Nightline," where, clad in suit and tie, he talked politely about allowing people access to information not filtered by the "media monopoly." Though he undoubtedly turned off many viewers, each major TV appearance led to a spike in visitors to Stormfront.
We all know what "Storm Front" is, why give anything it prints any credibility?
I had never heard of it. For Yes to bring it up like it is a part of mainstream media is troubling.
I wonder if she knew about all of the things written on the site.
I am troubled that her negative attitude about Black people goes beyond her personal experiences, but have been fueled with the rubbish of clearly racist publications like 'Stormfront'
When I had suggested to her that she expand her horizons thru travel and literature to educate ones self about the diverse nature of all people regardless of race, I wasn't refering to a source of pro-nazi propaganda.
Are we really seeking the truth or are we just Black bashing?
I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and to listen so that I can understand where they are coming from. Now, I understand.
Mainstream media, indeed.
You are being played....
Over a month ago I had my doubts but didn't say anything. Now I am convinced: Will the real Slim Shady please stand up?
Yeah! Well, after a while it does hit your funny bone just a little. And I am sure it has crossed your mind.
It seems out of character for you. I laughed as I imagined you saying it.
Yes, I understand that based on my commentary it would be easy for someone to guess that I am an extremely serious person with strange ideas; someone who is filled to the brim with anger and self-righteous indignation. But that is only 95% of the time.
I haven't even seen you but can imagine you doing that shift!
Photo compliments of Perez Hilton
Morning Mix
‘Poor Gorilla’: Teacher’s aide fired for racist Facebook posts about Michelle Obama
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mor … lle-obama/
“This poor Gorilla,” the post began, accompanied by a link to a conservative news site about Michelle Obama. “How is she going to function in the real world, by not having all of her luxurious vacations paid for anymore? She needs to focus on getting a total make-over (especially the hair), instead of planning vacations! She is a disgrace to America!”
WB, Why do I get the distinct impression that I am at a party, but inadvertently steps in unannounced and interrupts a private conversation taking place in the cloak room?
Ever have one of those "bull in the China shop" days?
LOL! Yes I have had more than one of those days!
Since you brought up that racist site, Stormfront, and I read about it, I now understand why you say the things you say.
You may not call yourself a racist; however, what you speak says volumes. You say things that supposedly justify the hatred of Black people. That bit about 5% of slaves have white parents is a crock of bull. Rape of slaves was rampant and a favored past times for slave owners, their male relatives and friends, and whomever. Then they expected the Black slave men to be the fathers of their children. I'm doing my family tree and 75% of the relatives shown are Europeans.
Anyone who would have slaves has no moral compass in the first place. That's like saying, "He would beat slaves, make them work sun up to sundown, all slaves to eats ONLY scraps from his slop bucket, sell off the children to the highest bidder, but NOOOOOO! He would not SLEEP with a slave. He is a good Christian man!"
I need to stop now!
Diane - I saw the highly disturbing episode of ROOTS where Kizzy is sold away from her parents, and forced to bear the child of her new master. I am also aware that Malcolm X used to be rather arrogant about being the lightest of his siblings, until his mother told him he'd gotten that from her; she was conceived through rape.
Horrible as that is, perhaps you and Ronnie Wrenchbiscuit can understand a case of a sheltered 8 year old who has absolutely no concept of ghettos, racism and sexual molestation having her home fall apart, being sent to live in the worst neighborhood in the city to live with strangers, and being so innocent it didn't occur to her she could get into serious trouble by walking to the park by herself. She gets mobbed and sexually molested by a bunch of kids. It is so foreign and traumatizing, it takes her awhile to reveal what happened to her foster mother. Not that it matters much; the foster father is a child molester himself.
I don't see how whatever happened to their ancestors 100 years prior justifies any of this.
Ronnie Wrenchbiscuit - I am not a troll. As you can see, I had no real family to fall back on. So what conclusions was I supposed to draw?
As a teacher I have been up close and personal to sexual molestation. The sister of one of my students came to me in tears. She couldn't get in the truck with her "father" because he would "finger bang" her on the way home. I had to file a police report and sit there with her when her mother came to pick her up. The mother was mad because she told.
With all the horrific things that I have witnessed, the road to healing comes through facing the reality. The reality is to not become a racist.
If this indeed happened to you, I am so sorry. I will pray for you. If this indeed happened to you, you need professional help and a loving support system. Feeding on racist garbage will do nothing to heal your pain.
At my lowest point, I turned to Jesus. I still have issues but I experience His love and forgiveness on an ongoing basis. That is why I try to understand people and, if I can, be of some help. I will keep you in prayer.
If you want to talk to me privately, I'm willing to do so.
First of all I don't think in such terms as "trolls", "race baiting", and "victim-hood". These are terms that are commonly wielded by individuals as verbal weapons to cast a negative light on others who they disagree with, or who might disagree with them. I was simply having fun at your expense, and so I apologize if I offended you. But being serious, it would be foolish of me to accuse you of not being who you say you are. However, I have never encountered a person of color in my entire life who has articulated such a negative outlook on their own race. It's very unusual and quite remarkable.
But since I don't have a crystal ball I have no choice but to accept that you are who you say you are. With that being said, it appears that you are at the heart of a grand revelation. If the trauma that you experienced over a short period of time(5-10 years?) was enough to turn you against your own race, and bring you into agreement with your oppressors, then we do not have to wonder why that after over 500 years of colonization and abuse that many African and Indigenous people would be traumatized by a system of white supremacy. You were able to escape from those who tormented you as a child. But a person of color cannot escape from their skin.They have no where else to go and they are stuck in an evil system that only gives lip service to freedom and equality.
This is truly an evil empire, and the United States is ruled by the powers of darkness. You seem to think that all of the evil perpetrated against people of color is somewhere in the distant past. But it has never stopped, and it continues today on several fronts. Just because you may not be aware doesn't mean it isn't happening. The killing of young unarmed black men has received a lot of publicity, but there is much more that is happening. The black race and people of color are under attack, and the white supremacists have no intention of sharing power, or of developing the nation into a truly multicultural society. There is so much proof available that it is hard to believe that a majority of Americans appear not to know what time it is. For instance, here is something that I believe originally came to light in 2014. This report is an outrage that has received very little attention from mainstream media:
"...A Senior Scientist with the CDC, Dr. William Thompson, recently admitted that he and his co-authors intentionally omitted statistically significant information from their 2004 study that was published in the journal Pediatrics. The excluded data showed that "African American males who received the MMR vaccine before age 36 months were at increased risk for autism."(1,2) Dr. Brian Hooker, an independent scientist, re-analyzed the original CDC data and published his results confirming that "African American boys receiving their first MMR vaccine before 36 months of age are 3.4 times more likely to develop autism" when compared to African-American boys who receive MMR after 36 months of age.
For more than 10 years, the CDC buried scientific evidence that young Black boys who receive the MMR vaccine have a significantly increased risk of developing autism. The CDC kept this crucial information confidential. The CDC refused to warn the public. The parents of Black babies were not provided with informed consent and their human rights were violated.
Concerned parents are now wondering whether this callous and potentially criminal behavior by the CDC is a one-time fluke or part of a larger pattern. Actually, the CDC and World Health Organization (WHO) have a history of violating the human rights of Black families by unethically experimenting on their babies with dangerous measles vaccines..."
http://www.ageofautism.com/2014/09/mino … cines.html
Leave it to conspiracy theorists imaginations and political alarmists to "cry wolf" against an government agency or agencies formed for the ultimate protection of the peoples in America . I often wonder just how one makes the leap from viewing the results of the unimaginable constancy and ineptitude of liberally organized government agencies to total conspiracy ?
The absolute ineptitude of ANYTHING government is constant - but conspiracy . hardly , Why don't you ever admit it wrench , You simply hate America ?
It would not only be incorrect to say"I Hate America", it would be hypocritical. As I have stated before , I don't recognize the legitimacy of America, or it's imaginary borders. America, or any country for that matter, simply exists within the minds of those who have embraced the fantasy. I don't hate Mother Goose , Willy Wonka, or the Grinch either, because they are simply not real. Anyone who hates imaginary things is in need of some serious therapy.
But for the sake of argument, let us pretend for a moment that this fictional place does exist. In that case, to say "I Hate America" suggests a monolithic society where all citizens are in perpetual agreement with one another on all matters. Of course, we know that is not true. Even within a small family it is rare that everyone is always in total agreement. And so, if I made such a statement it would not be true because I do not hate everyone who subscribes to the notion that they are Americans. Thus it would not only be incorrect, but it is impossible to have such a feeling since a nation is considered to be the sum total of all of it's citizens.
The correct statement is "I Hate Evil". The foundation of Colonialism was based on slavery and genocide, and that is nothing but evil. And the evil has continued in one form or another unto this very day. Most notably we see the evil unfolding at Standing Rock, and in the killing of unarmed civilians by miscreant cops. Hating evil is the proper thing to do. Only jealous men and women, psychopaths, sadists, rapists, thieves, murderers,kidnappers,racists, and tyrants love evil. And if you are suggesting that you love evil then I must ask: "Which one of the above best describes who you are?"
Ronnie Wrenchbiscuit - you have an interesting point there. This is what is referred to as Stockholm Syndrome. While it is prevalent, I can't help but wonder how a few fragile Europeans managed to capture Africans in their own homelands. Also, why is half the world controlled by less than 10% of its population?
Could it have something to do with the treachery of the African kings who helped the Europeans, and the immortality/ ghetto -glorifying / criminal - coddling African Americans engage in today?
The scenario I described happened as a result of my parents' lack of morals. Some liberals may frown on my use of the M word, calling me judgemental, but when the actions of others affect YOU, you tend to see things differently.
In my case, it was the whites who saved me. So what can I say?
It is easy to understand how, as you say "a few fragile Europeans perpetrated such a great evil and why the world is controlled by a handful of people. What you are promoting is the narrative that the victim is as much to blame as the perpetrator of the crime. But "homey" don't play that. This reveals a perfect example of how so many people can't see the forest for the trees. The answer to both questions are the same, and they are both the right answers.
Contrary to what world governments would have us believe, overall, people of all races and nationalities are primarily pacifists who are easily manipulated by powerful, ruthless, and aggressive personalities. Just look at what happened during this last presidential election. It is no secret that the Electoral College has the ultimate say in who is elected president. At least that is how the story goes. But even if we subscribe to that grand fiction, it still begs the question:"Why are U.S. citizens still voting in presidential elections?"
The government has made fools of an entire nation! On one hand they encourage people to participate in the system, but on the other hand they clearly illustrate, without actually saying the words, that in such an election your vote simply does not matter. But every 4 years, just like the Lemmings marching to the sea, a great number of Americans vote in the presidential election. Out of frustration, a knee jerk response is to suggest that a majority of Americans are stupid. Although such proclamations may be cathartic, it simply is not true. The truth is, a majority of Americans are pacifists who go along to get along, and that is how a handful of criminals control the entire nation by exploiting this common human trait. This is also how a handful of evil African rulers controlled and manipulated their own people for personal gain.
We also see this pacifism played out in the "peaceful protests" happening now at Standing Rock. We see hundreds of peaceful protesters being violently attacked by miscreant police and security forces with dogs, rubber bullets, pepper spray, and water cannons. Because the majority of people are pacifists, when a protester offers no resistance, and allows him or herself to be violently beaten down by evil cops on behalf of an evil corporation, while all of the other protesters stand around and watch, this is seen as a virtue by many. And the aburdity of it all is absolutely mind-boggling! Letting someone beat you down and throw you in jail is not the way to win a war.
You say white people saved your life. I have also known many good white people. But that doesn't mean I am going to ignore the evil that continues to be perpetrated here in the name of white supremacy. The racist cops who are killing unarmed Indigenous and African people, and lynching them in jail, such as Sandra Bland was lynched, are not going to ask you how you voted, or about your personal philosophy before they attack, rape, or kill you. The only thing a white racist will see is the color of your skin. This is why your perspective is self-defeating, and dangerous to yourself and others.
I suppose that it is amazingly easier on the conscience to blame the "white supremacy " than to hold accountable one's own people, culture or one's own personal accountability or the circumstances of another and entirely different era in time . ' Victim ology' is probably the prime example of the modern day surrender to mentality of defeatism .
Why , because it's far , far easier to throw around the blame game and engage the even easier finger pointing game than to hold one's own people responsible for the original losses , the enduring defeatism and the end zone of victim ology today ? I mean just who introduced drugs , alcohol , gang warfare , fatherless homes , crack cocaine , methamphetamines and drive by shootings , The pilgrims ?
Of course , surely you believe that the poverty and servitude of ALL poor people in America was equally applied by this evil " white supremacy" , including to other "whites " too right ? The Irish , the Scottish , the Italians , the Greeks, the ..............? or was it JUST the indigenous or the brown skinned people on the receiving end of such " white supremacy" ?
You have admitted that you are not an educated person, and so with all due respect, I am sure that many concepts I have presented here and elsewhere are far beyond your reach. But your lack of education is also apparent in your misuse and misunderstanding of the English language. As I have explained before, the word "victim" is a noun that is defined as follows:
: a person who has been attacked, injured, robbed, or killed by someone else
: a person who is cheated or fooled by someone else
: someone or something that is harmed by an unpleasant event (such as an illness or accident)
As you can see, there is nothing in this definition that denotes strength or weakness. Nor is there anything in the definition that implies a statute of limitations. On the contrary, the definition implies that once a victim, always a victim.
For example, if a man comes up behind you and hits you in the head with a toaster, steals your wallet, and then plunders your car and steals your Hustler magazines while you lay on the asphalt unconscious and bleeding, I assure you that until the day you die, you will be the victim of that vicious attack. There will never come a day when you can say, "I "was" a victim". That would be incorrect. Only the event itself remains past tense. What the event created: "a victim", is forevermore in the present tense. The only way you could stop being the victim of that attack on that day would be to go back in time and somehow prevent the attack. Only then would it be proper to say: I "was" a victim.
The way to articulate such an event with the proper grammar is as follows: "I "am" the victim of a violent assault. I was attacked in 1977 with a toaster while I was standing by my car in the parking lot of a strip joint. I was waiting for my best friends wife to get off work, as we were having an affair."
Now the fact that you are a victim does not indicate one way or another whether you are weak or strong, or whether you quickly overcame the trauma of the event, or whether you are currently suffering from PTSD. It simply indicates that you are someone who was violently attacked.
Since my parents were active in the Civil Rights struggle, you are at an extreme disadvantage. I have heard every racist apology under the sun, I have been called every name in the book, and I have been physically assaulted. You are not the first who has attempted to silence me with your "victimology" routine. If anyone wants to silence me they will need to use a bullet. I am Archie Bunkers worst nightmare. I am the victim who continues to fight back. I am relentless, I do not forgive, and it should be clear by now that I do not forget.
As far as the working class white man is concerned,he is not the victim of white supremacy, but he certainly is the victim of a class war that has long since reduced him to the status of a wage slave; a slave whose greatest freedom is to go to work everyday in order to further enrich his greedy overlords.
One final example: At one point does a murder victim stop being a murder victim?
"Toaster?" Really?
At first I thought it was a joke. Then I read about you and your friend's wife. Surely, that was a joke too.
I agree with you on the victim thing. That is a fact. He shot me. He raped me. She stole my car. They killed my parents.
Just a hypothetical. Although I have spent a great portion of my life as a womanizer, I am proud to say that I have never called a man my friend and then slept with his wife. That is the ultimate betrayal, and many men have "bought the farm" over that particular indiscretion.
But I am still amazed that there are those who seek to make people feel guilty and weak for acknowledging the fact that they have been, or are being victimized, and for naming their oppressors. Muhammad Ali is still one of my heroes. In his prime he was the most fierce boxer on the planet. There was nothing weak about him. But aside from his physical strength and athletic ability, he showed great moral courage in refusing the draft. He was probably the first celebrity of any color to say what many people had been thinking for years. Throughout his lifetime Ali was very outspoken on the victimization of the black race here in America.
Ali's quote concerning his refusal of the draft:
"...You my enemy. My enemies are white people; not Viet Cong or Chinese or Japanese. You my opposer when I want freedom. You my opposer when I want justice. You my opposer when I want equality. You won't even stand up for me in America for my religious beliefs, and you want me to go somewhere and fight, but you won't even stand up for me here at home..."
According to Tamir Rice and many others, not much has changed since then.
I fully agree about Standing Rock! What should the protesters be doing instead?
I am not suggesting that it is wrong to protest. Protesting is such a manner is important in order to raise public awareness. But such a protest cannot be sustained indefinitely. Once public awareness has been raised it is important to move forward in the right direction. It is then that the people must pursue a course of "passive violence". Passive violence should always follow peaceful protest.
What is "passive violence?" First of all , overt violence is well understood, and the result will always be physical injury, the loss of life, limb, property, or freedom. It would be foolhardy, and suicidal for the Standing Rock protesters, or any U.S. citizens to challenge the government in a violent confrontation. That will only be good for the undertakers. But passive violence directly attacks the imaginary and the abstract.
We must realize that money, real estate, and national borders are all imaginary concepts that only exist in the minds of men. These things are not present in the physical world. However, these are the things that greedy men worship. Money is their God, and everything connected to that money is a sacred object. Passive violence attacks not the physical, but what is most sacred to the greedy American corporations and politicians.
We engage in passive violence when we refuse to buy the goods and services offered by this evil system. We engage in passive violence when we stop willingly donating money to their causes. And here is how it can be done.
We must wean ourselves away from fossil fuels, supermarkets, and public utilities. It is in these three areas that the system really has us by the acorns. We need to stop driving cars as much as possible, and we need to use alternative forms of transportation, such as buses and bicycles whenever we can. Communities need to start growing their own food instead of shopping at supermarkets. Corrupt police departments collect millions of dollars in revenue for the city and state each year through the use of immoral traffic fines. When people are driving less the miscreant cops will collect less money, and the oil companies will also lose millions in revenue. When the police and sheriffs department call for donations don't send them a dime.
Large supermarkets will go out of business without a steady flow of customers. And once a majority can get off of the grid, the state will no longer be able to extort money for power. Collectively the citizens can boycott the status quo and regain power over their own lives. This approach requires discipline, sacrifice, and solidarity. But it is the only path to freedom. If we choose to remain addicted to consumerism, the evil Capitalists and their security forces, otherwise known as the police, will remain in power, and will rule over your grandchildren as they rule over you.
I have coined the term "passive violence because when the "spice" stops flowing, and the citizen regains control of his own destiny, the greedy American Capitalists will certainly consider it to be a violent act of aggression, and a threat to the "American Way".
Excellent ideas, Ronnie Wrenchbiscuit! I'd like to add that we can operate cars on corn oil. One of the coaches at High Cascade Snowboard Camp made a movie describing how he altered his RV to do so. He drove from New York to Colorado on $8 worth of gas. He just went from one McDonalds to another, asking them to give him their used cooking oil, which they gladly did.
Today, High Cascade has a bus that runs on corn oil.
When I get a place of my own, I intend to operate it entirely on renewable resources.
Carole King owns a fabulous ranch near Sun Valley, Idaho. She powers it with hot springs. I would LOVE to do that!
What does the Alt right want? Reccent images from alt right rallies
Make Reich great again
Other words make Nazis rich again. Today it the Nazis jews taking Hitler dreams beyond. Lol
It is puzzling to me.
I've heard on this discussion that Blacks who were not happy could go back to Africa. How can you go BACK to a place you've never been.
I saw a Native American poster that read "Love America or give it back."
I would think the Alt Right would want to go BACK to Europe if they are attempting to create a white society. However, it is impossible to make any country all one color.
There should be a way for all of us to respect each other and work together for a better economy, jobs, cultural definition and peaceful co-existence.
David Duke
By Hrafnkell Haraldsson on Fri, Nov 18th, 2016 at 1:24 pm
"Bravo President Trump! Some great first steps. We’re on the way, folks, to taking America back." - David Duke
http://www.politicususa.com/2016/11/18/ … sions.html
Not easy making out what David Duke is aiming for. He actually got more votes from blacks in Louisiana than Trump did.
Duke says he hasn't been a KKK member for 40 years. I agree with him on Zionist world order take over. He wants to preserve white culture as the white world population is at 14℅ and by 2050 with it going down to 9℅ . Black population will double by then. I pick brown because when you mix all the colors together you get brown.
Maybe the Black people in Louisiana know something that we don't know. I'd love to hear from them. I'm open! People of different ethnicities are falling in love. They don't share Duke's vision. I've heard of people who started out being racists falling in love with others of a different ethnicity.
They can also be reborn (reincarnated) into the race they hated in their last life.
The greatest punishment must be every human being has the black DNA in their blood where other race have not that domination thread.
Now you tell that to a KKK member. Lol
The greatest punishment must be every human being has codes of black DNA in their blood where other races do not. HUH???? Your comment makes no sense even if I edit it to do so.
The original KKK was a political movement which was worried about the black vote. It had nothing to do with anything else, as far as I know.
Kathryn, I have wondered if you smoke that stuff! Now, I still do!
On the face of it, I see nothing wrong with David Duke wanting to preserve white culture. But here in America we always arrive back at the same fundamental problem with that seemingly harmless desire. There is also a great irony here since it is a fact that the Americans purposely destroyed the cultural identity of black African slaves to make them more docile and easier to manage. They separated them from their family and friends, and forbade them to speak their language and observe their customs. And we see the same evil was perpetrated on the Indigenous as well. But now the white racists are running scared, and they see Trump as "The Great White Hope".
But what David Duke and his miscreant followers don't seem to understand is that this is not 1964. This generation isn't going to march peacefully down the streets singing "We Shall Overcome". No, that is not going to happen. People are tired of waiting for things to change. The government has set up their FEMA camps (Konzentrationslagers) and militarized the police in anticipation of the violent backlash against the New Jim Crow (NJC) and the New World Order (NWO). I suspect this charade of Trump rising to power was planned by the ruling elite even before Obama was re-elected, as they do not leave much to chance. However, even though they have worked this all out on paper with their high powered "experts", there is another player in the game that the elite have not anticipated. Now with Trump at the helm, the evil racists are desperately circling the wagons, but it is too little too late. Their day has come and gone. I am reminded here of Custers Last Stand, because of their arrogance, they have no idea where they are heading.
When the time comes when all the people of color surrounds White Custer and his white men. Then when Custer turns to me and says.
Looks like this is the End my friend. Then I will get out my makeup kit and make myself brown, then say.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN WE... WHITE MAN.
Preservation of culture is good when it is practical. Example: If Muslims come to power and expect us all to become Muslims. Could that happen? I doubt it.
Black people don't really know what the eating customs were wherever they came from. They did become accustomed to eating the remnants of farm animals that were thrown away. Now that we have become aware of the high fat content killing us, we have to modify that. The food can't be a part of daily diets.
If our calendar had holidays for all cultures, I wonder if there would be much work going on.
It would really be something if we tried to maintain our culture to the exclusion of others and reason.
Alt-Right Gathers in D.C. to Celebrate Trump's Win, Protest Rages Outside
http://jezebel.com/alt-right-gathers-in … 1789198845
Tila Tequila @AngelTilaLove 11h11 hours ago Washington, DC
Women who complain about Trump saying, "Grab her by the pussy!" Are retards because I love getting grabbed by the p*ssy! Lmao!
It’s unclear to what extent NPI’s wishes will be granted. However, they are so far galvanized by Trump’s appointments — particularly Steven Bannon, the former chairman of Breitbart News, to White House chief strategist and Senator Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) to Attorney General. Bannon has long been accused of anti-Semitism, and in 1986, Sessions was deemed too racist to serve as a federal judge.
Alcohol and racism make a dangerous cocktail!
As far as White Nationalists are concerned, they are PROUD that they have finally succeeded in 'taking back THEIR country'; and the really disturbing thing: MOST people who voted for Trump weren't even SORT of thinking about this kind of thing happening & didn't want it. I'm sorry, but I really think this word applies to them, now: IDIOTS who are obviously clueless about Christian militants. I used to be one, I know how damn dangerous they are.
Neither of these incidents - different sides of racial animus - should have happened
Bullies Hospitalize 8-Year-Old, Tell Him To ‘Go Back To The Cotton Farm’
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bul … af95ed5e0a
When an 8-year-old boy from Louisiana attempted to defend himself and younger sister from a group of white bullies, they told him “You need to go back to the cotton farm.”
---------------------------------------------AND
Man Describes Brutal Attack; Crowd Yelled ‘That’s A White Boy Trump Supporter’
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/11/11/ … supporter/
A Chicago man said he was attacked by a group of people on the West Side after a car crash and shouting match, during which he said supported President-elect Donald Trump.
Last Wednesday, a co-worker told me her daughter was accosted at work for wearing a "You're safe with me" button. Yes, the button currently has political connotations, but is that any reason to attack someone? Bullies just want an excuse to make trouble!
I'm not familiar with the button. I have seen people wear safety pins.
Some say coincidence. I say "God!"
Strangers Who Shared Thanksgiving Meal After Accidental Text Plan to Stay Friends
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/str … ay-n688471
It would be nice if they had mixed race day. Since the Whites had dinner with the browns people on that day.
Just once a year, for me that would means more to me than Christmas.
There have multirasial day in Brazil and in Canada.
Do you thing the multiracial day helps?
We have multiracial days often in my family. Several of my nephews and cousins have white wives.
There are multicultural events in every major city in Canada.They are very popular. People share each other cultures as they enjoy themselves a lot. Then they find out we are much more in common than we have differences from each other. Never seen a riot or even a fight at any of these events only pot festivals are more peaceful. Lol
That's it! We need more weed! The scary things is that they started overprocessing the weed in the 70s, adding chemicals that turned them into the incredible hulk. Then somehow it became extremely addictive.
We should get FDA to approve the weed. Then it will be too expensive to smoke. Hey, never mind the weed.
Half the drug conviction are weed. Pure pot directly has killed 0 , where alcohol kills 88,000 and tobacco kills 480,000 per year in America.
Worst thing about pot, it take a party full of pot heads to order a pizza correctly.
Drugs is just another reason like Religion to control us. The funny thing about Jews is their heritage and blood is mostly Arabic. The brown Muslim in Europe are out growing whites. White don't even reproduce enough to replace themselves.
Muslim are not the bullies and they got nothing to lose, so they are going to win this war. The Zionist are on strike three with a third world war with no place to run. I envision a spiritual age without one world religion because first commandment where : no gods before me:, will not be most people's fear or worst sin.
You don't think ISIS folks are bullies? Religions should not control people.
Please should want to do the right thing. God doesn't make people do the right thing.
Israel project was given to Obama to invade 12 Muslims countries. They trained ISIS in Saudi Arabia and supplied them with US weapons.
You think killing 5 million Muslims between Iraq and Afghanistan on their soil makes Muslims the bullies. Some will go insane things for their children, I would do the same and I have never harm anyone in my life, yet.
Right now the Government and US military stealing even native America land for fracking oil.
Muslims will never give in. Greed has no sacred bounds and endless evil, the world knows it.
It sounds like you are oversimplifying the problem. I think of gangs when I think of the problems in Iraq/Syria. Who started it first? It started a loooong time ago. It's like the Hatfields and the McCoys. After so many generations, people forget why they dislike the others. They just know that "they" did something to us and we will never forgive them.
Current Syria issue (I thought) was Assad gassing his people. He got a wonderful education in the US, went back to rule Syria, and went crazy with power. People tried to fight back. ISIS (jv team) formed and started taking people's heads off and killing the same people that Assad was killing?
There has always been the obsession to rule the US and bring it down to its knees. The sad thing is that the US is millions of people with millions of ideas. Many of us didn't even think of the Middle East until they started jihad. We are not responsible for what our leaders do.
Why can't innocent people be left out of it. People who have beef with each other should settle it like human beings. It makes no since. I hate you so I will kill your children. Then we get the vicious circle going.
You might need to relate the 12 countries to me in another way that I can recognize. Is this when Obama took office. What was the project called?
Muslims will never give up. That is the point that reminds me of gangs. You disrespect my homey, I shoot up your house and kill your babies. Makes no sense.
People have too much pride to say "I'm sorry or I forgive you." That's what keeps the world from healing.
Yes, Obama was a puppet for the Israel projects to attack a series of Muslim countries on 3 continents. Like all roads lead to Rome, it's all roads lead to Israel.
It took me a minute to get this but .. I got it! Must read the whole thing to get impact of last paragraph
Castle, this reminds me of our conversation
They said despicable things about the Obamas but say they’re not racists. Yes, they are
http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/art … 76188.html
BY ROGER GUFFEY
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(This column first appeared in the Lexington (Ky.,) Herald-Leader.)
Psychologists have long recognized rationalization as a defense mechanism that people use to excuse unacceptable or offensive behaviors by offering some pseudo-logical reasoning or self-serving explanations.
Roger Guffey
Roger Guffey
Perhaps we justify that sumptuous dessert because we have earned a reward for sticking to our diet. Or we tell our boss we are sick, when we really want to go to the last game of the season. Some of these excuses are harmless, but far too often they are not.
For the last eight years, people who have mounted despicable attacks on President Obama and his family have tried to rationalize their bigotries. Consider these examples:
A Republican candidate here in Kentucky won a legislative seat, even though he had posted images of the Obama family as a band of monkeys, but he says he is not a racist.
Yes, you are.
A public official in West Virginia said she will be glad to have a dignified white first lady, instead of seeing an ape in high heels. But she says she is not a racist.
Yes, you are.
In Sheridan, Ind., people made a parade float of President Obama in a toilet, but said they are not racists.
Yes, you are.
A mayor in Pennsylvania ran a picture of Michele Obama on a wagon of orangutans under the caption ‘Move-in day at the White House’, but denied being a racist.
Yes, you are.
The people who insist that President Obama is not a native-born American deny they are racists.
Yes, you are.
A candidate in Tennessee posted a billboard with the caption “MAKE AMERICA WHITE AGAIN,” but he denied that he is a racist.
Yes, you are.
A mayor in Washington State ran an image of Michelle Obama as a gorilla, saying she could be attractive only to another monkey like her husband. Of course, he says he is not a racist.
Yes, you are.
When a gorilla escaped from a zoo in South Carolina, a GOP politician in South Carolina posted a Facebook page telling people to be on the lookout for Michelle Obama’s ancestor, but he says he is not racist.
Yes, you are.
After the 2008 election, some right-wing extremists circulated bumper stickers, quoting Psalm 109, that pray for God to kill President Obama, leaving his wife a widow and his children orphans, but they denied they are racists.
Yes, you are.
One of my favorite Abraham Lincoln stories relates his encounter with an elitist lawyer who, during a trial, dismissed him as a rustic bumpkin. Lincoln posed him a simple riddle. “If we call a tail a leg, how many legs does a horse have?’ The smug lawyer replied, “Five.” Lincoln corrected him. “No, he still has four legs, because calling a tail a leg does not make it one.”
People are free to engage in self-delusion if they wish, but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck, it is a duck, and these comments are racist. But perhaps these bigots should heed the poet Robert Burns’ advice in the poem “To A Louse.”
‘O would some power the gift give us to see ourselves as others see us.’
Yep, I have heard such two faced rationalization for the balance of my lifetime.
Race issues aside, I am going to be watching Trump like a hawk, on him like white on Rice, no pun, intended.
People interpreted the article differently. What I got out of it is "people who do terrorist acts are indeed terrorists." Some took that to mean that all Muslims are terrorists.
I know the bottom line was that Obama refuses to call terrorist what they are because he doesn't want to call Muslims terrorists.
People who do terrorist acts are terrorists, yes that is true for everbody. Anybody can earn that title from Timothy McVeigh to specific members of the Islam faith. We avoid blanket descriptions and characterizations based on race or religion.
True! That's what I got from it.
Evidently the author was saying Obama should call it what it is. I didn't get the sense that he meant all Muslims unless it went over my head.
Are you still convinced that courts and police in America are synonymous with justice?
http://lasvegastribune.net/clark-county … oure-fire/
This lady was sexually assaulted by police officer in court room. Judge refused to listen to her and turned her back to play with woman's daughter. They jailed the woman for 2 months and put her child in a facility.
She sued and won! Police officer and judge FIRED!
Yesterday, I got an "aha" moment.
When Van Jones' townhall meeting took place, he made this statement: "The Republican Party sees the United States as colorblind."
My "aha!" That is why people accuse others of "racebaiting." If you talk about race, you are racebaiting. I think I mentioned that before but I did not connect it with the Republican party seeing the US as colorblind.
I don't think being colorblind is a good idea. There is so much to be appreciated when we can see color.
When I look at Zionist US Congress I feel snow blind.
I'm looking online for Jake Tapper's interview with a racist. He gave a speech at a university last night. It 's better to hear him than for me to tell you what he said. If I can find it, I will post it.
Leave Israel alone!!!
I looked up Jake trapper's and did not find anything related to Zionist. We are allowed to criticized just about anything under the Sun. Except if you criticized Zionist you lose you job on anything mainstream entertainment or media. When you can not criticized a group you know they are the only ones who have the real world power and control of the planet. Who criticizes Zionist by far most, are real Jews from America, just Youtube a few Jewish people online and find out for yourself.
I would leave these Zionist alone if they could leave me alone. So I move myself far away as humanly possible. Where I am moving the people there are not deadly afraid of confronting these Zionist.
I wrote you a long detailed synopsis on 3,000,000. Read it!
Zionist. Do you think it would be profitable for everyone to back off and let there be a full scale war in the West Bank?
I am not a historian or a student of war so I don't know. How do you resolve the issue respecting the rights of everyone?
I can't imagine any group substaining to work with Trump. From the staff Trump picked, how in the world is he going to herd all these kinds of cats, when he finds cats useless and sad. I know, I work with groups of artist and Trump tried to unionized them on a contract that he couldn't leave alone with me.
Trump is so extremely vague, I pitty each group that must get boss around by him. He will only add torture with both the Zionist and the Palestinians. Yet he dose know he is Rothschild and Rockefeller boy.
It is interesting that you bemoan the plight of indigenous Americans yet don't feel the Jewish nation has a right to their historical homeland, free of war.
I wonder. If somehow there were enough people of the native tribes, if they banded together and took over this land would you support all out war against them? (Actually I don't wonder. I know what your answer would be.)
Can you say hypocrite?
Can you say: "I haven't taken the time to study the history of the region but I still have an opinion"? The Zionists are colonizers, just like the Europeans. And just like the United States it is all about greed. The Zionist leaders have always been more interested in territory and material wealth than human life on either side of the fence.
You speak of the Jews as if they are monolithic. But you would do well to study history. Here is what Jews themselves say about the evil Zionists and how they helped Hitler murder millions of their own people during WWII. You don't see info like this on CNN or Fox News because the Zionists control the networks. Orthodox Jews hate the Zionists. Surely they are not anti-semitic.
http://www.truetorahjews.org/lieberman
?
Live, I think you picked up on part of a discussion I was having with Castlepaloma. Or maybe your comment is to him.
If it is for me, please clarify.
CREDENCE!!! Where are you???? I had to leave your people. Please, puhleez tell me I don't remind you of them.
Of course it slavery should not be forgotten. But the blame needs to go away. No one is left alive that participated in it.
The left does not want constructive conversations on race. It would eliminate their favorite weapon, claiming every white person is a racist.
Hi NC! Thank you for the in-service on deer pee.
Your comment drew me to your article because I like to get a feel for people. On October 18, my brother-in-law fell out of a deer stand and died. I had never heard of a deer stand. I looked it up. Your article gives me the best example of "why" a person should use a deer stand.
I started this forum for a productive discussion of race. Not that everyone has to agree and ... we don't. However, we can to learn the "why" ;if you will of it.
I originally posted because I was puzzled to hear people upset after hearing Michelle Obama talk about slaves building the WH. Social media lit up about her race baiting. I though, "I completely missed it!"
I am Black. I am not a liberal. I do like to know what other people think. Discussion here and recent developments after the election led me to conclude, "Those who want to consider the US to be colorblind are angered when a comment is made about race.
I am not colorblind. In fact, I love diversity. Mostly because I have some background in genetics.
I am bi-racial. I see liberals as pushing their agendas using race because it is so easy for me to see both sides. I see race pushed with all sorts of fake narratives. And minorities, especially blacks, buy into it. And after being falsely accused of being racist a million times, whites get sick of it. That is then perceived as more racism. It creates tension. Just what liberals want.
Blacks have to admit they have a culture problem. The current focus on all these bogus racism claims makes that improbable. And honestly, other people are getting trapped in similar cultural problems; it isn't limited to blacks, they were just targeted by liberal policies first.
CREDENCE, Where are you????
Actually, I don't appreciate the topic or tone of you know who's question. I couldn't take it.
Here you come with your great big strawman. And what you are saying doesn't even make sense. That's like telling a guy who got his arm ripped off by a grizzly bear that he should never forget that he only has one arm, but he should stop telling people who took it.
You just don't get it. Nobody cares about blame. Blame doesn't pay the bills, and neither does an apology.
For instance: I got mad and shot your son in the head; your son who happened to be your sole means of support " Gee, I'm sorry!" I stole your life savings and now you're living in a cardboard box. "Gee, I feel really bad, and I am truly sorry!" That's how stupid sorry looks when you lay it out on the table.
You're living in a dream world if you think people of color spend a lot of time wanting to blame someone. That is just another racist fantasy. People of color want the same opportunity as everyone else. People of color want to be free of persecution; and especially free of miscreant cops who have the authority to even kill black children with impunity. And black people are owed reparations, as well as the Indigenous. Nobody works for free. Do you? They are owed 400 years of back pay. And that's not welfare my friend.
Their ancestors earned every nickel while they were working in the fields, and while their daughters were being raped in the barn. Why shouldn't their descendants profit from their misery? The white man sure has. Slave labor and King Cotton is what made the United States a world power. Yes, they owe them a hell of a lot of money. And the United States also owes the Indigenous for all the broken treaties, the stolen land and mineral rights, as well as the genocide committed against our people. You wanna play, you gotta pay. And if you have a problem with that, then tell your boss Monday morning that from here on out, it's Pro Bono all the way. See how that fits, and then get back to me.
Thank you for demonstrating your pure ignorance. A perfect example of the real problem. False victimhood.
Nothing false about it. If you are having trouble, get someone to read American History to you starting at 1492. No, I just backed you into a corner that you can't get out of. Oh sure, you can spew your vitriol from here to eternity, but you'll still be standing in that corner. Why? I'll tell you and Archie Bunker why. You are struck in that corner because you have no valid argument against reparations. The fact that you, nor any of your friends would volunteer to work for free today, or tomorrow, provides empirical evidence that you would certainly not accept 400 years of forced labor upon your family and your descendants.
Let's keep it real. Let's face it, and let's get a life. If you tripped on a used condom and toppled down the escalator at the shopping mall and ended up in the hospital for 3 months, only to find out that you contracted HIV at the hospital from a dirty needle, don't tell me you wouldn't try to sue someone for pain and suffering, and lost wages. No one will believe you. This isn't Facebook or Youtube. Perhaps you are out of your element.
Yeah, being a complete nutbag makes your point much clearer. LOL.
Just as I predicted, rather than not saying anything at all when you have no valid argument, or anything of value or interest to add to a conversation. You continue with childish insults. And your insults also reveal a lack of creativity. Here is what you have offered:
NCOUTDOOR commented:
"Thank you for demonstrating your pure ignorance. A perfect example of the real problem. False victimhood."
"Yeah, being a complete nutbag makes your point much clearer. LOL."
Yes, these are very predictable responses, and you are not alone. The problem with you and many others is that you have no real argument. If you had an argument then you would have presented your argument instead of meaningless insults. You are my subordinate, not because I say so, but because you have demonstrated that your self. There many racists on Hubpages who do not agree with the truth. But some of them are intelligent, at least to a certain degree. Some will at least offer up a feeble argument, which does indicate that they learned how to read and write, and that they have a modest ability to engage in the process of critical thinking. And since your reliance on childish insults suggests that you don't know the definition of critical thinking, I will offer it here:
Critical Thinking: the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment.
When we look at the definition we can clearly see why the racist commonly resorts to insults rather than offering a reasonable opinion. It is very difficult, if not impossible, for a racist to have an objective opinion about race related issues. And without an objective opinion it is impossible to raise anything but a pedestrian, one sided argument. For instance, when we look at the issue of minority employment we see that a majority of black people are employed. However, a favorite tact of the racist is to point out that blacks are disproportionately unemployed as compared to whites. And they will offer up statistics to back up their claims, as if they are delivering a smoking gun, or an "aha!" moment. But of course, it is not an "aha!" moment at all, but instead a "So what?"moment.
My Bulletproof Argument
by Ronnie wrenchBiscuit aka "The White Man's Moses" © 2016
I can say that a disproportionate amount of cancer patients will die prematurely as compared to people who have herpes. Yes, I can say that and it is a fact of life, but it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. And it certainly doesn't mean that cancer patients don't try hard enough to stay alive, or that they are not as intelligent, or motivated, as the people who suffer from herpes, or that they are morally bankrupt. It simply means that their condition is far more serious than herpes, which is not a life threatening disease.
Racism can be likened to a terminal disease. When white racists whine and complain about "reverse discrimination", "affirmative action" etc., metaphorically speaking they aren't even talking about herpes, but instead the common cold. However, when a person of color is talking about racism, they are speaking about the social equivalent of terminal cancer. Of course in an oppressive racist system there will be a disproprtionate amount of blacks who are umemployed, and of course in an oppressive racist system there will be a disproportinate amount of blacks who are incarcerated in the evil "prison for profit" system. But here we are not looking at the general character of the black community. Instead, what we are looking at is the general character of a disease, and the debilitating effects of that disease.
Let the world marvel at my bulletproof argument. And there is no racist dead or alive who can challenge my argument, or my authority. Let them come, and as I have done here, I will own them all.
Seriously, I don't speak Nutbag. You can't argue with the ramblings of someone so... off. This was about a productive conversation, not arguing with someone who clearly needs medication.
Contrary to your last response, you are arguing with me. In fact you are doing the best that you can do, which is evident in this collection of your childish responses presented here. In order to have any kind of conversation, productive or otherwise, an individual must first be able to articulate their ideas, either verbally or in written form. You seem to be having difficulty in doing that. This is what you have presented so far:
1st Response of NCOUTDOOR
"Thank you for demonstrating your pure ignorance. A perfect example of the real problem. False victimhood."
2nd Response of NCOUTDOOR
"Yeah, being a complete nutbag makes your point much clearer. LOL."
3rd Response of NCOUTDOOR
Seriously, I don't speak Nutbag. You can't argue with the ramblings of someone so... off. This was about a productive conversation, not arguing with someone who clearly needs medication.
Racial (and gender ) integration, by legislative fiat...was NEVER supposed to happen. It is an anomaly/ fluke...in human history. Only males that are slaves to written laws are capable of enduring such a ridiculous - and abusive - legislative mandate. Societies are, historically, and excluding Western Civilization governments, male group oriented - i.e. males coalesce based on race , language and religion. Societies are MALE social stratification systems based on race, language and religion... Trying to defeat human nature by legislative laws...is not what our illustrious founding fathers created the legislative system for.
By forcing integration (non-white males and females) on white Christian males, naturally, violating human nature - in the most extreme - we have created an environment ripe for discord, dissension and strife. Every male group MUST create their own status environment...and FEMALES must respect the male group's domain.
BS, the AMERICA you live in now would not exist with concepts that you seem to be promoting.
There you are Credence!!!
I've been looking for you. I had to leave the group with the disrespectful topic.
I am the same all over social media: Facebook, LinkedIn, Google+, Twitter, Instagram, etc.
I will never participate in any topic started by that person because I don't want to waste my time or have someone think they are tricking me.
I read your profile page ... very interesting.
Do you really think these groups could cohabit in peace? What about people that have children outside of their designated groups?
My dna results show relatives all arond the world.
Africa 79%
Cameroon/Congo 27%
Nigeria 20%
Ivory Coast/Ghana 16%
Senegal 9%
Trace Regions 7%
Europe 20%
Ireland 8%
Europe West 7%
Trace Regions 5%
West Asia < 1%
Trace Regions
Farrakhan Sees a New Opening for Black Separatist Message
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/farr … e-44267733
Who on earth listens to Louis Farrakhan?
Everything he says is fine with me except for the idea of black separatism. If this country belongs to anyone, it belongs to me, why should I go? We have paid the price in blood and treasure and I am not going anywhere....
Isn't that all he talks about? I remember some BMs coming through the neighborhood (Inglewood) to collect funds for a Black hospital. They wanted me to be shocked because there wasn't a Black hospital. I think hospitals should be open for the greatest research, talent, training, patient needs, etc., regardless of color.
Any suggestion of separation is ridiculous. There are communities that emphasize their culture and families and friends live close to each other; however, there is no way that a cultural community can be totally independent of the outside.
If there is no bigotry, why do these things continually happen?
Arkansas high school teacher accused of 'racially charged' Web posts resigns
District: Remarks ‘racially charged’
Screenshots from a Facebook page with Bennett's name and photo show a comment that referred to Michelle Obama as "America's First Chimp."
http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2016 … sts-resig/
People segregate by culture. We like people who think and act like us. Racial differences (skin color, hair color, physical differences) really matter very little.
So, we already tend to stay within our culture, what happens if a differing culture appears or truly becomes "harmful". Like cultures that support Hip-Hop type pictures of gang bangers. Or cultures that seem to support terrorism. What if those cultures lose their sense of responsibility? The concept of the family? They become a culture of dependence and welfare? Other cultures look down on them, fear them, hate them. THEN racism based on superficial differences starts.
Liberal ideas damaged minority cultures, especially blacks. We need to fix our damaged cultures before others will want to try again.
Or... we keep going with liberalism and when they are all equally damaged, we'll see more integration.
I'm sorry. What does that have to do with an educator calling Michelle Obama a chimp. Then continues to make a bigoted statement about her family getting out of the White House and to never have chimps in the WH again.
I don't comment on some discussions because I'm trying to stay on a productive discussion. Many claim there is no racism/bigotry. I give examples to show this is a real issue.
Michelle O has not been on welfare. Neither has her family. It is bigoted to call her and her family chimps. It lets me know what THOSE people (who make the statements) think of me. I have never been on welfare. I have never had children.
All hate crimes should be called out for what they are, regardless of who commits them. They should not be used to further divide people. The issue is not special interest but humanity.
Morning Mix
Hate crime charges filed after ‘reprehensible’ video shows attack on mentally ill man in Chicago
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mor … b8d4d516c7
There is no excuse for what they did. It should not be used as an excuse for a reverse hate crime.
As a white male over 50, affirmative action and reverse discrimination against whites like me froze me into a pay grade for the last 19 years I worked for the government.
I'm sorry to here that. Frozen in a position for 19 years. Did you ever ask why or document what happened? A director at Hughes told me that I should have changed jobs because when people get comfortable seeing you in a position they can't imagine you moving up or you are too valuable in that position. After hearing that, I quit the company. I'm glad I did. I appreciated him being honest with me.
It happened because the law required companies (and government) to hire based on skin color and sex. It's called "racism" and was legally forced onto employers.
I think you speak to one of the other main springs of racism. People who identify as a group will try to exclude others from precious resources if there is not enough for everybody.
In Northern Ireland, Protestants as a group excluded Catholics from the best paying jobs. Unions and employers colluded in the shipyards, etc.
The Protestant majority used their political power to shift public funding to Protestant schools at the expense of Catholic schools, etc
The well-to-do Protestants could then look at poor Catholics and deride them as ill educated people who never amounted to anything and could not be trusted with any position in society.
Religion, ethnicity, skin color are all used as excuses to marginalize groups that can be seen as competitors.
Racism is multidimensional.
Racism sometimes involves simple exclusion from resources and services not because of the dearth of same, it is simply done by the racist majority because they can use these instances to exercise and maintain its power, control and oppression. There was no reason for Southern legislators to insist that the beneficial provisions of the New Deal notbe made available to Black workers in the South, except for sheer spite and meanness. Nothing to do with competing for scarce resources. Such was the brutal nature of racism in AMERICAN society.
There is some dispute over that legislation. Many black people benefitted in the cities, many white people were excluded (along with black people) in the rural areas.
Overall black people lost out more than whites but you would need to dig deep to demonstrate that the sole or main motive was racism, though I imagine it was somewhere in the mix.
Anyway, I don't think it helps to demonise whites any more than it helps to demonise blacks.
When one is in a position, one should start seeking promotions from the gitgo. It is never good to remain in the same position after FIVE YEARS. One should always looking past the first position & act like one is one to two levels up. I WOULDN'T LET anyone freeze me into a position. I would REBEL.....& COMPLAIN. I am good at opening my mouth- I wasn't one to be messed with in the work world. Treat me NICE ......or else..............don't want to see my BAD side, trust me!
I worked for the Feds for over 30 years, I would have moved on long before I suspected that I was not being promoted for political reasons, Affirmative Action or no.
NO WAY would I have stayed in the same grade & pay NINETEEN years. I would have left the job period. When I took a job, it was with the purpose of being promoted. It is passive to take this kind of job abuse. He should have rebelled or complained to the supervisor or HR, if that didn't work, LEAVE. NO JOB is worth staying at the same grade. No way in %^&$^$! hell would I remain in the same grade for years. I would look for ways to get out.
Over a period of 19 years why didn't you do something about it? Every racist that has ever given their humble and uneducated opinion here in these Forums has maintained that black people living in the ghetto could do better and rise above their position if they would just "stop whining", "stop playing the victim", and motivate toward a better future. Here, playing the devils advocate, we can also apply this Archie Bunkerism to your situation. Instead of crying the blues for 19 years and playing the victim, why didn't you motivate yourself toward a better paying job, or another career. What was holding you back? Was it racism against whites in a country where whites are the majority? Is that what held you back? Really? How does the shoe fit, now that I have placed it on the other foot?
Paul, I wonder about that also. Most organizations are a pyramid. The higher you try to go, there is less competition. However, that competition is stiffer.
If a person was hired over you, then that person was no longer competing with you. Did people consistently come in that were promoted above you? That is a case for systematic discrimination. Perhaps something in your evaluations was used to pass you. If not, you must learn how to take a stand.
I just went through it with age discrimination for 5 years. I documented every mark less than "satisfactory." I let my students see my evaluations and went all the way up to the District Administrator. When you are good and you know you are good, use the system to fight.
Sorry for putting it here, WR. I can't remember where this comment was.
Sounds to me like the old "the man is keeping me down" rhetoric blacks used to use as an excuse for not succeeding in America. The only true reason for being held back is the lack of will to improve upon ones' situation. America is filled with opportunity at arms length...just reach for it.
I found it to be a little incredulous. Getting passed over for a promotion is one thing but for 19 years? One has to look internally when this happens.
… and what does one find internally? In your case, what was the basis for being passed over for promotions, do you suppose?
Why does it seem to blacks that black lives do not matter to whites? Some white employers are prejudiced, it seems. Some cops are prejudiced, it seems. Are there (white) others who are blatantly or subtly hostile to blacks? teachers? managers? school principals?
I am confused since I live in CA. I was not raised to be racist or prejudiced and I do not know anyone who was or is.
What does the prejudice seem to be based on???
Possibly you grew up in California. I grew up in Arkansas in the 50s. Promotions require not only knowledge of the field personality traits. I don't think I mentioned being passed over for promotions. If I did, please refresh my memory.
I can't wrap my mind around ISIS, gangs, rapists, etc. Because I would not do any of those things does not mean that they have not been done.
There are people with cycle cell anemia, Lou Gehrig's disease, cancer, etc. My not having it doesn't make it NOT real for those who do have it.
It seems you are upset. I don't understand it.
Unfortunately the political parties are using racial issues as a stepping stone to office. If you will notice there has been a huge upswing in the number of media posted racial issues since candidates started running for office.Some News networks controlled by certain powerful people who want to be in more power, use these issues to get what they want. We are all duped and used as guinea pigs in the process.Some racial disruptive events were horrible and should never have been started. There is still much division in this country and room for much improvement. Thank you for listening.whonu
I tried to start a conversation and look for real solutions...
Here are 2 of my hubs.
https://soapboxie.com/social-issues/Som … oll-Models
http://hubpages.com/business/Tackling-t … nt-Problem
Younu! You know, I think you are on to something. The use of camera phones is stepping up the news also.
No, slavery should not be forgotten, but it should not be an issue or a discussion in todays world. There are not many people alive today that can factually validate what actually happened, who built what, how the were treated, etc. During that time, slavery was legal, as was genocide and apartheid. There were many White people thatalso lost their lives, homes, money, etc for attempting to/helping Blacks. We will never move forward as a people, dwelling on a past that none of us had a part in.
I like how you explain this Alphad.
I heard a quote similar to your words we can not live the past we must live for our future , what will those generations say about our past that we lived out our ancestors ? No we make and create our own history either for the good or bad.
But we are a new generation 21 century
God has blessed us to exist and live in.
Let's clarify what Racism is; Racism is HATING another person based on the color of their skin, social bias is believing something about a person because of the color of their skin. Most people have what Psychology calls hidden social bias even if they never make a racist statement. Most people do not HATE other people based on race. The word Racism is thrown around to encompass any type of situation where a lack of judgement or social bias may be present. People who say everyone is RACIST are ignorant and do not understand racism. Here are some clarifying examples:
1. Person makes a comment about an oriental girl being smart- this is social bias not racism.
2. Person sees a white person and wants to kill him because he is white- that is racism.
Hate is the defining factor of racism. Too many people do not know the difference.
I started the forum after O'Reilly was very offended because Michelle Obama said, at DNC, slaves built the White House. When he discovered that slaves did partcipate, he said "They were fed well."
Many people considred her comment as race baiting. I asked "Why?" So maybe you can define race baiting for us also.
Can you tell about the process by which non-whites are not paying off college loans?
I'll have to let my nephew know about it.
I doubt she meant they weren't paying off college loans. My experience has been that minorities who went to schools with me were given grants, scholarships, etc based solely on the fact that they were a minority. Not one black person in the boarding school I went to as a kid payed their way. They were all on full scholarship. College, also, had a high percentage of minorities who were heavily subsidized to be there.
I wish I had had access to grants. I got NDSL loans and had to pay them back.
My nephew really needed access to the information. He graduated #5 in his class and got a full ride to Georgetown which paid his tuition. He graduated owing $10K because his Aunt Me helped him also.
He owed $260K after completing law school.
Often perception is not reality. UNCF raises money for Black students who must apply and it is awarded based on merit and need. HBCU used to have a large marathon every December with Lou Rawls. Again, merit plus need.
All programs have a name. I'd like to know the name of at least one so I can use it to help my great nephew.
Please help me with a name!
Got me. I went to school years ago. Didn't get any help, didn't look for any so had no idea then, either, what was available and from where.
http://www.uncf.org/
https://www.thiswaytocpa.com/education/ … ip-search/
http://www.collegegrant.net/grants-for-black-women/
https://www.moneygeek.com/education/col … -students/
https://www.scholarships.com/financial- … olarships/
Google "college grants for blacks" or something similar. You will find hundreds of links promoting grants and scholarships based primarily on race, although merit, need or field of study often plays a part.
I wasn't even planning on going to college. I went because my friends were going. My godmother and dear friend administered a college-work study program. I worked my way through college.
Counselors help students take necessary testing and apply for financial aid through fastweb. There are private sources shown on fastweb which provide scholarships/grants to high school students from disdvantaged backgrounds. HOWEVER, it is not that easy. They have to write an essay about their past and their plans to overcome. Those usually last for one year.
Perception
There is a perception among many (NOT YOU!) white people that Black people are getting a lot of things free. When Black kids only went to HBCUs, there was no problem. The problem came when white students saw Black kids sitting RIGHT THERE in the same classrooms with them. Then the mind starts working, "HOW did THEY get in here."
The underlying assumptions are
1. All white people are smarter than all Black people
2. They have never been here before. They don't belong here.
3. How do they pay for it?
4. They're only here because of affirmative action. They couldn't have gotten here on their own.
5. Black people are poor so they must have been let in free.
6. They start complaining about all the free stuff Blacks are getting secretly even though they have no evidence.
These things were said to me and to others, in range so I could hear them. That is part of that racist mentality.
This correlates with a lot of my experiences, now you are cooking with gas!
Like Paul Ryan says, "Textbook case!"
I can understand those who are poor and no groups appear to mentor encourage them as opposed to the community efforts of UNCF, HBCU, NAACP, and other organizations that were organized in raising money for poor Black kids. I am sure nothing like that happened for the poo white kids (I guess???).
That is unfortunate, as I often forget the role social class and economics play in racial interactions. If you got enough money, there are fewer impediments in life. Perhaps in the search for remedies, we can focus on socio-economic status as the basis for making additional help available to all students. Low cost or tuition free education for college or trade schools would go a long way toward leveling the playing field of opportunity for all those falling below a set income level. This is the one time that a rising tide can lift all boats. This is a Democrat party initiative conceived of by Bernie Sanders.
Well I don't know how far Bernie's idea will go. I understand some countries have free education but I don't know how they do it.
But...
... and putting aside the knotheads that are everywhere in every age...
Do you think today's classrooms have the same underlying perceptions? I say they do not.
Again, putting aside the Neanderthals that will always be with us, do you think today's college-age generation has the same preconceptions that Dianne spoke of?
Obviously I do not think so. I think tremendous progress has been made. But that does not mean I think the journey is over. It just means that I think our kids are less encumbered by our generation's cultural stereotypes.
GA
I think MLK's vision is slowing dying because we (Black people) are not carrying the torch. My husband is from Montgomery, Alabama. He talks about those exciting times when MLK would come for marches, sit-ins, etc. I remember the same from Little Rock, Arkansas. We stopped encouraging younger kids en masse to reach for the sky. That in combination with everything from Urban Renewal to white flight to poverty programs that didn't seem to help people to reach up.
Black kids, and their parents and some grandparents, were not around to see the affect of Jim Crow laws and understand the blood that was shed for them to be able to sit in a classroom. There are many (sorry Live) kids that are making it; however, there are many, many, many (sorry again) more that need to be reached in their hearts.
I would tell students, "The best way to be 'in the face' of racists is to succeed." Sorry to keep talking about students. I really miss the opportunity to talk to kids about these things.
You can stop apologizing for using the word many. You, yourself,.said it was a polite substitution for the word all when commenting on how many whites were racist when you were in school. I think anyone looking can see where the difference lies.
Many like to evoke the name of Martin Luther King when making a distinction between "peaceful protest" and violent opposition to racist oppression. But such a notion has no basis in reality. The Montgomery Bus Boycott of 1955 was not viewed as a peaceful protest by southern white racists. This was considered an act of aggression, and a declaration of war. And we can see that racist whites responded with violence in the following years. The actions of Martin Luther King and the NAACP were viewed as divisive and unwarranted, not only by the racists, but by many apathetic whites "sitting on the fence". From the racist viewpoint,the black people were able to get to their destinations from the back of the bus, just as well as the good white folk were getting to their destinations from the front of the bus. And so, the general consensus was, "What's the big deal?" If Martin Luther King, and Medgar Evers were alive today and active in the movement, they would be branded as " race baiter's", and purveyors of black "victimology". But these terms are a last ditch effort by the white racists to silence the opposition.
Martin Luther King was essentially saying the same thing as Malcolm X but only in a different way. The were both saying, "By any means necessary". Many will argue that these men had two different approaches from opposite directions; one peaceful and one violent. But that is simply a bed time story suited for children, racists, and good people who have grown weary of the fight. First of all, Malcolm X did not advocate aggressive violence, but he was an advocate of self-defense. In 1957 when the racist New York cops nearly beat Johnson Hinton , a Black Muslim to death for verbally protesting while they were beating another black man, a crowd of nearly 3,000 angry Black Muslims and their supporters had soon surrounded the 28th precinct stationhouse. It turned out that Hinton was also a Black Muslim, and a member of Mosque Number Seven, the largest mosque in the country which was led by Malcolm X. The long story short, Malcolm X negotiated with the cops, diffused the situation, and was able to have Hinton transported to Harlem Hospital, as the man was in critical condition. Had Malcolm not intervened the man would have most likely died in police custody. Once the man had received medical attention Malcolm X was able to disperse the crowd, and there was no violent confrontation.
Malcolm X spoke of arming the black man as a means of self defense against their white oppressors, which is not unlike many whites today who proudly cling to the Second Amendment and demand the right to bear arms and also protect themselves from criminals, and terrorists. Any group that has oppressed another group for over 500 years cannot be viewed as anything other than a group of criminals and terrorists.
But Martin Luther King also advocated the use of weaponry, and his weapon of choice was even deadlier than bullets or bombs. His weapon was a spiritual weapon of Love. Many racists have attempted to co-opt his message as a means of pacification. But I am living proof that it is not working out for them very well. Furthermore, I challenge anyone who has ever raised a child to convince me that if a stranger attempted to harm that child you would simply stand there and politely ask him to stop. We all know what most parents would do. They would go beserk! The greater the love, the more violent the reaction, as it should be. When you Love someone you fight for them, sometimes even unto death.
However, a man with a gun in his hand may be able to protect himself for a while, but if that is his only weapon, he is bound to fail. Even a man with a gun will often turn and run when his life is threatened. But a man filled with Love, and a strong hatred of evil, has no fear of death whatsoever. Yes , he can be killed , but he will stand his ground, and he will never run. There is no man-made weapon that can stand against such a formidable weapon. A man who does not fear death is invincible, because his power reaches out even beyond the grave, and empowers the weak and the downtrodden.
It is often the case that conventional weaponry, and a Weapon of Prayer and Love, must both be used in the proper measure. My parents were forced by white racists to arm themselves in self-defense, but they also understood the importance of a greater weapon. This is why they took the time to teach me about the evil legacy of America, the difference between Love and Hate, and the proper use of these powerful emotions. And so I have carried their great wisdom into the future. And when we consider the bold statements and symbolic gestures recently made by celebrities such as Jesse Williams, Beyonce, Colin Kaepernick, and Gabby Douglas, we understand that the previous generations have not been idle, and they have created a new generation of warriors. When we also consider the tireless efforts of groups like Black Lives Matter, The Nation of Islam, A.I.M and the Mexica Movement, we begin to understand that just like Bob Dylan said, "The Times They are A-Changin", and for the Image of God, these are the best of times ... since 1492.
Your expansive knowledge of history is amazing. I saw a tender spot in you when you talked about love and prayer.
I have asked people why Malcolm X was considered as important as MLK. You gave the most convincing support I have ever heard.
Good points. Less encumbered. That's the key. If each generation worked to raise their kids without the prejudices they had attained in life we could slowly stamp out prejudice and racism. I know my parents did. I was not exposed (until well into my adulthood) to their prejudices; which we mild, but did exist. They made every effort to not display anything to us. So we could judge the world we lived in not the one in the past.
It's interesting that you use the word 'many' when talking about what white people think but, obviously not the person you were talking to. Out of curiosity did the majority of white people you interacted with during that time express those things? Or only a few. Just because you did not hear an exchange where someone called them out on it does not imply that the listeners were in agreement.
This is the problem I have with listening to people talk about being discriminated against. One incident does not mean anything other than you had a lousy encounter with someone.
I use many because I'm purposedly not trying to say "All white people" or "White people."
Yes I actually heard many and saw smurks as they tried to joke about it. Possibly some smurked because they didn't want to be involved. Leo Lee, a Black man, was sentenced to the death chair for raping a white woman. The white woman lived across the street from Mrs. Scruggs, a white lady my father worked for doing odd jobs. Mrs. Scruggs told my daddy that she had seen Leo Lee go to the woman's house frequently and that they were going together. I was about 8 years old and the automatic follow on question I was thinking is "Why didn't Mrs. Scruggs say something?"
The saddest thing was to see Leo Lee's mother walking through the neighborhood trying to raise money to get another trial for her son. I'm sure she died without being able to help him.
You must remember my age! Over time, there were many!
You do realize that even someone 'going together' has the right to say no? Without knowing the particulars it is difficult to assume the worst case scenario.
Either way, many implies the majority. You said yourself you didn't want to say all so substituted the word many.
If I make a statement such as 'many blacks aren't bright enough to be admitted to an institute of higher learning' that is considered racist, although I do have some black employees that this would be true about and could easily prove that the word many applied truthfully. But you make a disparaging statement about 'many whites' when many is, by your addition, a polite substitute for all and it isn't?
No Live! "Most" is the majority
There are many Muslims in ISIS but not "most!"
Many is more than a few!
I agree with you. The past happened and we must learnn from it. We are accountable for what we presently do.
All people should be responsible for themselves
Many are not responsible; this is something less than all but more than some which is more than a few.
Sometimes I, individually, am obnoxious.
And sometimes I, individually, take offense too easily. It simply hurts to think an individual might believe an entire race of people harbors them ill will.
It looks like there are more than 100K in ISIS. Is that many?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_activity_of_ISIL
If one is standing in front of me, I'm screamming "Help! They're after me." Please don't ask how many. Just help me.
Us exploring our own and sharing our vulnerabilities with others is a good think. If more people could interact on this level (from the whitest to the blackest/from the tallest to the smallest), our world would be much better for it. Those in the inner cities are also isolated. Everything they do is in their little area. There is a whole big world that they don't know about and opportunities they can't experience from where they are.
Many denotes different things depending in context. Yes, it would be many in ISIS to those opposing them. No, it doesn't constitute many within the entire Muslim community so the religion can't be judged by their actions.
And asking how many might be helpful in determining how best to help, but I get your point.
It would be nice for everyone to talk on this level but not everyone wants to. It's always fascinated me how some people truly can't think past their immediate world. 'What does it matter? It doesn't affect me.' I've heard that often when trying to engage people in conversations concerning current events. So not everyone is trapped in the inner city any more than some are trapped anywhere else. Some are smack dab in the middle of their comfort zone. But for those who are, it would be nice to know how to help.
It is not my perception that these students were getting the classes for free, this is what they told me. I didn't assume they were getting an education for free. In fact before it was brought up in our class study group, I didn't even think about it.
They may have gotten it free or they might have misunderstood what the details were.
Example
When I was in 10th grade, our pastor's daughter then to Washington DC to work for the FBI. I was told that she received a scholarship from the FBI to go to college. I started referring to it as an FBI scholarship. I tried to apply and it turned out that it was a job as a secretary for the FBI. There was educational reimbursement.
After I inquired and went through the process, I got the details.
If I am not mistaken two of them were coming off a disability situation. Most of them were part of a government work rehabilitation program. I did try to apply for scholarships (which I qualified for academically) however, I was too old to qualify (not too white). lol. As I stated these were decent people trying to get an education. They worked just as hard as I did to get through some tough subjects. I have always taken cultural studies and religion classes as my electives. I believe the cultural differences we have are what makes us interesting, these things shouldn't be seen as a down side. The difference is where I was raised. The area I grew up in was a melting pot. I don't remember ever thinking as a kid that someone was my Black friend or my Hispanic friend. We just played like kids. People are always trying to "find themselves" so they look for things they have in common with each other starting with race. Race is a superficial, it doesn't mean that you are anything alike. Yet most people will help someone of their own race, not of another race. The color of our skin doesn't mean anything yet we hang onto that like t defines us. Our behavior and our actions define us.
We make an interesting group. Michelle, you and others who came in after we started, have given us a very diverse pool of thought and experience.
I'm going to try to do a Hub when I figure out how to attack it. I wish we were on a reality show.
Now I do know of an instance where a guy is not working on his doctorate at USC (yikes!). He was on disability and got his BA and MA for free. So I am told. It sounds outlandish but there may be something to this.
Race Baiting is a pop culture term not a "academic" term. We use to just consider any intentional emotional media driven campaign to be propaganda. I'm a moderate. To me the news stations are out of control anyway. The news stations do not report the news, they report conjecture. We can use the Websters dictionary definition of "Race Baiting" as "the unfair use of statements about race to try to influence the actions or attitudes of a particular group of people". I saw it happening last night. Sean Hannity had Trump on his program with all the mothers of people who had been victims of violent crime by illegal immigrants. It was an attempt to garnish support for "The Wall".
I watched Michelle Obama's speach, and I should mention that I do not like her, however for the first time I saw a side of her I could relate to in the world. Her comments, although not completely accurate, explained a lot of her attitude, and for the first time I could understand her. If I am being completely honest I feel like she sold out, I feel like the Obama's sold out the American people. Every person is responsible for his or her own comments and Bill O'Reilly is a big boy, if he wants to say stupid things that's on him.
The college thing I was referring to is the fact that when I went to college not one but every black person in my classes was getting their education paid for by a either a government entity or a scholarship that required almost nothing of them(this is by their own words). These are good people and I don't begrudge them an education, however it is not a level playing field when I have 100k in college debt and they get that same education for free. My point with that is you cant scream equality unless you want equality.
I dealt with workplace inequality with men in terms of pay and promotions, so I know what it's like to be judged based on how you look. One more thing I want everyone to understand is that anyone who is white is on their own in terms of state aid. I have worked since I was 17, in 2011 as a result of the crash I was laid off from a job that paid 45k year. I was a district manager. Unemployment was $1,000 a month, I had two kids. I put in tons of applications however, all the businesses were bombarded with 100-200 applications per job. That $1000 didn't even pay rent, I went to get temporary assistance and was told by the case worker that I was not eligible based on the fact that I wasn't a minority and I didn't have enough children. When we talk about race we have to be honest about the paradigm shift in this country. Not that there are not white career welfare moms, but being told I'm on my own was like saying "well you are white so that should be good enough".
Lastly, We can have an intelligent conversation about race, that conversation should be able improving social situations now. The wars were fought, the only slavery in this country is sex slavery. We do not need to reenact the civil war, or MLK's march. What we need is to have an honest conversation about drugs, dangerous neighborhoods, kids growing up without respect and hope. We need to look at each other and love one another as human beings understanding that we all face challenges and we all want the best for our kids.
Why can't people discuss race in a productive manner?
Because so many people have been/are hurt, so many people are/have been blamed and so many people forget that we have eyes on the front of our heads to see where we are going. There is fear that the listener will not understand or will filter for disrespect, an insult or an attack and there is fear that the speaker is wanting to attack, insult, disrespect or can't understand. The belief that experience governs understanding. The belief that experience governs empathy. This added to the lack of freedom given to explain intention when a language mistake is made or fear that one will be locked to a spoken mistake and eggshells are walked on. Hurt leaves one wanting to be understood to insure it does not happen again. That message can get blurred into the message made by some wanting payback as the start of both positions (pointing out the wrongs) is the same. The belief that we do not all have the same intention to better us all. Or to sum it in a sentence.
Because people do not see that there is only one race on this earth, the human race!
As for Michelle Obama's comment's. This is exactly what I mean. She stated fact! She did not say anything should be forgotten. I took what she said as an indication of how your country had grown changed and evolved for the better, but i guess she didn't say anything about that either. But she did state fact!
Woodwork is hard to take down especially if it is strong and durable and meant to last and benefit all. We need to accept it, polish it and admire such woodwork. Those who gouge it, scape it and mar it must be stopped.
When there are enough who appreciate the woodwork, we will be able to keep the others at bay.
No problem.
Until that day, I for one, will keep defending the Constitution wherever I see fit.
Even if that day never comes in my lifetime. which it probably won't since after all we are at the lower end of the higher ages.
Better luck next time around.
That's very nice Kathryn, but I will ask you directly what others here cannot answer. They cannot answer my question because the answer completely destroys their racist rhetoric. Once again I have owned them all without breaking a sweat! And here is the question:
In a country that was founded by white people, and still primarily controlled by a white majority, why is there more poor white people in the U.S. than any other race? Because of their obvious advantages, why are they unable to succeed when Kim Hung Lo can immigrate to this country and be successful? Is it because they are stupid, lack motivation, or have a victim mentality? Or is it because they would rather smoke crack all day and live on food stamps?
"In a country that was founded by white people,
and is still primarily controlled by a white majority…" Is this true?
"Why are there more
poor white people
in the U.S.
than any other race?" Where?
"Because of their obvious advantages,
Why are they
unable to succeed?" What obvious advantages?
My personal reply is that I do not know because I do not see statistics and locations where this is true.
You think there is some broad brush answer?
I disagree. (Understatement)
That's because you don't have a good understanding of laws of nature. The bell curve. The Bible talks about how the poor you will always have...
The number of White people poor is not the important factor but the percent of white people. There is always going to be about 10% of all people that will fall below the poverty line.
In a country of 320 Million people, 10% is going to be 32 Million. Of that number, most of them will be White because the majority of the populations are White.
Among various ethnic group, you will find variations..
However, there is something wrong if a segment of the population (blacks) have a significant higher per cent of poor. In this case, we need to find the underlying cause. Is it due to racism? or something else?
Do you understand now?
another good isolation of the difficulty, JI
"However, there is something wrong if a segment of the population (blacks) have a significant higher per cent of poor. In this case, we need to find the underlying cause. Is it due to racism?"
or something else?
OR SOMETHING ELSE?
That something else is govt.-related. Government has tried to help them when they should have been left / facilitated to help themselves.
Now they don't know how.
Its the same with the Indians. We could have helped them assimilate with dignity and willingness. We could have helped the blacks assimilate with dignity and willingness. How this is to be done? This is the new science.
Possibly, through allowing them to teach themselves and their own and just leaving well enough alone as far as hand-outs and more as far as education. Teach the teachers so the teachers can teach their own communities. Something like that. The day will come slowly at first and then like a fire hose. We just aren't there yet… getting closer by the day, hopefully.
The Way I See It
What I understand is that in order to keep your narrative going you make statements that are contradictory. You make excuses for the poor white people by saying it is normal for 10% to be poor! We are talking about 10% of a majority that has not suffered through slavery or racial discrimination. Yet you seem mystified that the poverty rate for blacks is just over twice that percentage. You now ask if perhaps racism is the cause.
But that is only back pedaling, because up to now you have insisted that it is more a matter of poor character, an unwillingness to conform, lack of morals, and poor parenting. Of course racism is the problem. You, onhorseback, and Archie Bunker are trying to peddle the tired old narrative that black people are inferior, and unable to succeed like other races. Using your twisted logic, if Lee Hung Lo can immigrate and make it here in America, then there should be far less that 10% of white folks living in poverty.
Unless you are willing to take the time to learn about the problem before seeking solutions, your time would be better spent playing golf.
It appears you miss understood my comments again. I'm not sure you are doing this on purpose just to be confrontational. But here it goes, my last attempt to explain it to you.
It is just a normal distribution in any group of people to have a bell curve. Which means there will be a small number in the high income bracket, a large number in the middle an a smaller number at the bottom. That is the 10% I spoke about. If you look at our history going back to the 1960s, the poverty rate sits about 10-12%. When I say it is higher for blacks, it is a fact. The poverty rate for blacks is too high. I then pose the question why? I did not make any statement about which is the cause. I just pose the question as either due to our racist past? Or something else? Meaning there may be other explanations.
My person believe is that racism played a very small role. In the distant past, it may have played a much bigger role. However, our country has evolved and institutional racism is irradicated for the most part. There will always be individual racist and that is not controlled by any laws.
In my humble opinion, it is the public policies of the great society of lyndon Johnson that lead to the current disparity. When you have entitlements that is tied to a single mother, it forces families apart. That is the primary cause of poverty in the black precincts. Out of wedlock birth is 70%. How can things be good?
Jackclee, while I don't agree with you on systematic racism, I certainly agree with you on the poverty programs. They seem to be designed to keep people content getting what they are getting.
Field trips in schools provide an outside look for kids that can change their way of thinking. In 2005 I took a group of students to Washington, DC. When I see one of them, that is the first thing they remember. I'm Facebook friends with several of them and very proud of the fact that they attended college and have professional careers. When schools have to cut budgets, they cut the arts and field trips. Those are fund activities and often a reason kids go to school.
My students would often say that teachers, especially white teachers, only came to the ghetto to get a check. There were some teachers, but not all, who would say racist things. We were going to do The Wiz. A teacher said "that's for Black kids. White kids can't be in that." The majority of students in inner city schools in California are Hispanic. This same teacher would make cracks about them "going back across the border." Like police officers, administrators or any other person with authority, there are a few bad ones in the bunch. That doesn't mean that they are all bad.
You mentioned politicians. I don't think there is anything politicians can do other than make sure welfare programs require that people acquire skills that will help them get off of welfare after a certain time period and create an environment where it is businesses are given tax incentives to help people obtain employment.
The community needs to be safe. Schools should be strict on policies. Businesses, churches, families should all work together to get to know neighbors by name. Remove graffiti ASAP!
Diana, you make a lot sense. Too bad more people don't see it that way.
Most politicians are corrupt. They spend 90% of their time fund raising. How much real work can they do?
I kep stressing the Constitution and a limited govenment for a very good reason.
We don't need more government bureaucracies. That does not mean things can't or won't get done.
There are alternatives such as local and non profit charities who often do a better job with less money because they have the right motivation.
Keep pushing and spread the word.
The status quo is not working and it is time to try something else.
I get frustrated because a lot of people share my views but there is no coalition. When I spoke to kis at school, I spoke to the whole class. I didn't want to be perceived as favoring the Black students by having a special relationship with them over other students. You can't just talk at people and expect them to respond. You have to build a relationship with them. I think you and I talking and hashing out is proof of that.
I develop a relationship with kids then they want to hang out in my room all the time. That would keep me from function with my advanced group or developing relationships with other students who need me. The Chicago schools shows that a segregated school can produce scholars. I went to an all Black school for elementary and junior high. We didn't have special ways for teaching subjects or common core, etc. We were respectful. We were taught and we learned.
Today's situation is complicated by girls having babies too early in life, drugs, low/no morals and waaay too much emphasis on sex.
From what I can tell, you are a good teacher. We need more like you. Just curious of your opinion of the teachers's union. Most teachers I speak with in the NYC area hates the unions.
I'm ambivalent on the union. The union is more liberal than I am on certain subjects. I don't like the fact that my union dues support those things.
They did not support me when I was trying to validate experience. It was a 2nd career, after 20 years in finance and administration (BBA/MBA/passed CPA exam). That experience means nothing for teaching. I taught as a long term sub while I finished my music classes. The District accused me of lying and took away 2 years of experience. The Union would not help. I guess they thought I lied. Immediately my pay was docked $4000 over two pay periods. When I finally got the validation, they said it was too late, according to the union contract. I lost more than $52K over 13 years and the years of experience which affect my retirement. The union failed me.
They support teachers on issues that impact ALL teachers. I didn't feel I needed to pay them $104 a month if they couldn't help me.
In 2011 they finally did help. The vice principal/principal the next year starting writing bad evaluations and tried to get students to dislike me. The students were very supportive. He had vice principals write bad evaluations. The union was very helpful with this.
Bottom line, the union fights for salary increases for teachers. Teachers are the lowest paid professionals with their level of education and the long hours (that extend outside of the classroom). People bad mouth teachers without having any idea of what a teacher has to do and how dangerous the situation can become. Police officers could get valuable tips on how to de-escalate potentially volatile situations. We earn every dime and are underpayed.
Unions is suppose to fight for the members and negotiate contracts...
They should not be donating to politicians...
They should not be inhibiting progress in trying to fix our public schools...
They certainly should not be going against the teachers they serve.
I hear this from many rank and file teachers. The unions are corrupt to the core.
I also here teachers hate Common Core...yet it is being force on them by the Federal Government.
Marriage is not what pays the bills in a capitalist economy. What pays the bills is jobs that pay a decent wage. It's very simple. You apparently only understand one half of Lyndon Johnson's Great Society. First of all, a majority of people on welfare do not want to be on welfare. But the welfare buys food, and provides shelter. The average man, black or white, will not rise up against a government with a full belly and a place to lay his head. But a hungry man is more willing to fight.
The Great Society allowed whites to maintain the oppression of the growing black minority by keeping them unemployed, but docile and well fed. Otherwise, a growing black minority allowed to have economic parity with whites would threaten a system of white supremacy. What is happening in the inner city today is simply a program of oppression that has been going on since the end of the Civil War. Until this system of racist oppression is abolished, there will be no significant changes made in the condition of the black man in the inner city.
You are making a lot of blanket statements without understanding how social systems operate in a country. Anytime you have a concentration of one race of people in an area, there are going to be problems. The real problem is that cities with high concentrations of minorities in an area are going to victimize each other. The solution is to break up the ghettos and disperse people to other areas. I once rode a bus from phoenix to imperial valley with one of the Bloods gang members sitting in front of me. We talked the entire ride. I asked him questions about joining a gang and why he did it. Because he was alone, he was willing to tell me all about his life. Now if someone had taken that kid out of that neighborhood at the age of 8 he could have become anything he wanted. Having a drug using mother and being in the projects, he didn't have a chance. So what is the answer? Break up concentrated minority populations. Diversity is the key to understanding. I have 9 kids, 6 adopted four racial backgrounds, and I love all my kids the same. The whitest of my children is engaged to a wonderful black girl, we spend time with her family (who I love). You can't fix anything with hate.
You're on the money about the kids in gangs. I try to explain to people that kids underperforming in school is greatly impact, if not fully, by their home lives and neighborhood interaction.
When you isolate one and build a relationship you can mentor and encourage a child in spite of the circumstances.
My students loved to play The Line Game as shown on Freedom Writers. I would do it at the beginning of the semester and sometimes the end. Kids built positive bonds that minimized bullying and my room was a safe place for all of them.
Diane,
You are obviously part of the solution. Kids need good role models, and I think this is another part of the social issue. When a kid needs a good roll model and they see mom is a druggie and dad is in jail, they do not believe that they can escape the situation. And in all honest even the foster care system is riddled with abuse and neglect. Programs like big brothers, big sisters are helpful yet we suffer from a lack of help in those programs. The reality is the people who want to help are barely making it themselves. Government programs are cannot teach love and encourage kids.
For your convenience I have included my previous post that you claim contains "blanket statements". Since you brought the issue to my attention, please identify those blanket statements.
What I understand is that in order to keep your narrative going you make statements that are contradictory. You make excuses for the poor white people by saying it is normal for 10% to be poor! We are talking about 10% of a MAJORITY that has not suffered through slavery or racial discrimination. Yet you seem mystified that the poverty rate for blacks is just over twice that percentage. You now ask if perhaps racism is the cause.
But that is only back pedaling, because up to now you have insisted that it is more a matter of poor character, an unwillingness to conform, lack of morals, and poor parenting. Of course racism is the problem. You, onhorseback, and Archie Bunker are trying to peddle the tired old narrative that black people are inferior, and unable to succeed like other races. USING your twisted logic, if Lee Hung Lo can immigrate and make it here in America, then there should be far less that 10% of white folks living in poverty.
Unless you are willing to take the time to LEARN about the problem before seeking solutions, your time would be better spent playing golf.
I hadn't seen a post from you in a while. I thought I was going to have to go through the post to hunt you down.
I went to YouTube and listened to some of your music. It was very soothing. Is it considered Native American? Did I hear an instrument of Native American origini?
No, there are no Indigenous instruments used in my compositions, other than my voice. Most of what you hear is either acoustic or electric guitars or synthesizers. And the styles you hear are primarily European and African influenced. The Indigenous aspect of my character is perhaps evident in some of my lyrics, but overall, what I write is not traditional native music. Being a musician yourself, I am sure you understand the importance of music in the struggle against racism. It was through music that the black man was able to first openly rebel and deceive his white oppressors. Many of the Negro spirituals, such as "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" were used as code words, and communication between slaves and operatives of the underground railroad. The slaves were able to openly communicate with one another right in front of the evil European slavers, and no one was the wiser. This is a perfect example of how the arrogance of the racist can be used against him. Through music, the black man was also able to openly demonstrate, even during Jim Crow, that the perceived superiority of the white race was nothing but smoke and mirrors.
Scott Joplin not only succeeded as a musician and songwriter during the height of the Jim Crow era, but he is credited with being one of the first architects of the style known as "Ragtime", and his compositions, such as "The Entertainer", and "The Maple Leaf Rag" are still popular today. Many people mistakenly believe that racism is based on hate, but that is not true. Racism is based on a false sense of superiority and entitlement. And these provide the racist with a sense of security. It is when that security is threatened that the element of hate is introduced; first in an aggressive manner by the racist, and then as a defensive reaction by the oppressed. Scott Joplin was a genius, but unfortunately for the Sons of the Pioneers, he was not the exception, but he exemplified the rule! And you can see this played out across the board. Let us consider that once the racial barriers in the world of sports were broken down, the black man not only excelled , but in many cases dominated sports. And when we consider all of the musical innovations of the last 100+ years, we see a great majority of those contributions were made by the black race. From the simplistic emotional form of the Blues, to the musical sophistication of Jazz, the black race has dominated and influenced the musical tastes of people throughout the world for over a century! We see this ability to be creative and to succeed manifested in the realm of business, and science and technology as well. And this has all been accomplished within an oppressive racist system. Just imagine what the black man and other minority groups could achieve in a truly free society.
But the racist American elite are not only powerful and intelligent, but they also have a good imagination. They can see that once the floodgates are completely opened that the white man will have to take a seat beside everyone else on the bus; not only sitting beside the African and the Indigenous, but in many cases also sitting behind them. And this vision is intolerable to the racist mind. This is why a disproportionate number of blacks have been herded into the inner city ghettos; this is why corrupt government agencies, and the police, have been funneling drugs into the inner cities since before World War II; and this is why the racists have co-opted Planned Parenthood and are using it as a method of genocide to stem the black tide, for fear it will soon whelm them all. They are filled with hate now because their game is being exposed at every turn. And there is a growing unwillingness among the youth to accept the status quo, or to rest on the achievements of the great warriors who came before, when the white racists relentlessly continue in their efforts to turn back the clock, and "Make America Great Again!"
As a wise man once said, "History is always written by the victors." The victors in this case being the white man conquering the slaves and the Native Americans. That’s why, you don’t read about their plight in school text books.
I grew up in all white place, West Covina California. In 1956, I was 17 1/2 and with my parent’s consent, I joined the United States Air Force. After basic training in California, I was sent to Biloxi Mississippi for electronic fundamentals and radar maintenance school. While growing up, I barely knew what the words prejudice and racists meant. Since I was from CA, the southern white boys used to call me queer, because they would say, "There are only two things that come out of CA, queers and hot rods and I don't see any tail pipes coming out of your a**.” Altogether, I spent 14 months there. I saw the prejudice and racism first hand. I saw the segregated bath rooms, separate drinking fountains for blacks, and black people riding in the back of the bus. Everything was segregated including the news, they would always differentiate between black news and white news reports.
One day, a teenager named Emit Till was visiting from New York, he whistled at a white girl and was lynched shortly thereafter. The joke was, "What is the fastest thing in Mississippi? Answer, Emit Till riding a bicycle.
I went to Japan with some of the same people I was stationed with. A close friendship developed between a black airmen and white airmen. After a year on a remote radar site, we were given orders to return to the states to an air force base in Valdosta Georgia. They both had to prepare for the return because they knew of the prejudice in the Deep South. The black airmen had a car and was the boss of the white airmen. But in order to not draw any attention to them, while driving into town, the white airmen drove the black airmen‘s car while the black airmen sat in the back seat. Today, that would look silly, but back then, it was the proper thing to do. I saw many acts of prejudice, and racism while in the Deep South in the 1950’s, that are still embedded in my mind.
When LBJ passed the Civil Rights Act, many of the Southern Democrats jumped ship and became Republican’s. I believe that was the start of the new movement towards racism and to where it is today. We have the Tea Party patriots that want their country back and now Freedom Works, which is just an incarnation of the Tea Party, and the police shootings on both sides of the fence. Yes, I believe all lives matter, but if you have compassion and empathy, then you can truly understand that black lives matter as well and it is the proper thing to do to differentiate their plight.
Wow! How perceptive! I have been thinking of BLM a lot. Certainly Black lives matter. I think the group is so disorganized and they have so many things they are supporting, if you will look at the website.
They need coherency, unification, and a willingness to work with others to make changes.
I'm glad you realize that Black lives matter and what the poignancy of the statement is regardless of the movement.
Yes, the story of Emmett Till is quite troubling. The fact that anyone would beat a child to death for the "crime" of flirting with a white woman illustrates a depth of depravity that is hard to wrap your head around. People in this Forum throw the word "racism" around like a horny man professing his love for a woman he met only 3 hours ago. But the men who murdered Emmett Till were the Real McCoy. From the perspective of the superior intellect, they had no reason to hate a 14 year old boy. But from the perspective of a white racist American, that 14 year old boy had crossed a color line. And that was considered an act of aggression that demanded a response. Apparently the teenager from Chicago did not realize the rule of white supremacy in many parts of the South. That rule was very simple. A black man dare not even look at a white woman for too long. But African and Indigenous women could be raped and abused with impunity by white men.
Your story is interesting on a personal level because I can relate to what you are saying. My parents were forced to endure the humility of segregation, as you have explained. My father spent 4 years fighting for the U.S. Army during WWII, only to return home and buy a 200 acre farm smack in the middle of Billy Bob Land. He then had to begin fighting the white racists who tried to force him and my mother to abandon their farm, along with all of their hopes and dreams. They even had to arm themselves and shoot at the miscreant racists on several occassions. What made things even worse was the fact that my mother was Shawnee. In spite of the fact that my parents had purchased, and legally owned the land, she still had to fight for the right to live on the same land that had previously belonged to her ancestors prior to the European Invasion. Needless to say, even though I am a Vietnam Era veteran, I never felt the desire to sing "The Star Spangled Banner", "America The Beautiful", or to own an American Flag.
WB, don't forget the children that resulted from those rapes.
In my research, I read that when a slave had a baby, her Black husband was the father no matter who raped her. The resemblance to the slave owners and their children had to upset the slave owners' wives. I'm sure the wives couldn't even mention it.
I was really proud of the Williams' sisters for their excellence in tennis. It was a surprise to see Simone (?) swimmer who won a medal at the Olympics. My students used to love to sing "Follow the drinking gourd."
The Hispanic population is growing and will at some point be the majority population. I wonder how that will impact race relations and other aspects of life here.
There was much to be proud of wasn't there?
Michael Phelps, refusing to respond to the ridiculous antics of his rival in the waiting area.
The two runners that received the Olympic medal of sportsmanship for helping each other complete the race.
Gabby Douglas and the rest of the women's gymnastic team when they were so obviously shuttled aside by media and even coaches for footage of Simone Biles, yet maintained a team attitude and did the best they could (which was very good indeed).
Keri Walsh Jennings, competing at 38 years old in her fourth Olympics and winning bronze with her partner April Ross.
That there was a "refugee" team, not affiliated with any country because they didn't have one, but competed anyway.
Bolt - the fastest man alive was absolutely amazing as always.
And there were a few not so good things.
That actions of the drunken Americans that trashed the bathroom
The booing of the crowd as the bronze medal pole vaulter received his medal. Even allowing for cultural and custom, it was out of line.
The treatment of Israeli athletes by some Arab athletes.
But overall a very good Olympics with very little to complain about.
I was totally disappointed when Allyson Felix didn't get the gold.
The one that got me was the bicyclist that led the race for some 20 km and was passed by not one but three other riders in the last few meters. No medal at all - it had to be absolutely heart breaking.
As long as the younger generations in America today originate from a breeding of entitlement driven social subcultures , as long as those younger generations of people entering the work force wish to start at the CEO ' occupational benefits ; as long as we have an administration that has handed out the benefits of lower income social protections at RECORD levels ; As long as in the American homes our children are "spoiled " by entitlement , lack of personal accountability and "everyone starts out with the trophy already in hand :
Calls for "Reparations " will never end , Why ?
Because ,Why should anyone sacrifice anything for the better investment in their future , for an economic betterment of their family or community in traditional ways By earning it ?...When it can be handed to you ?
WE also have a presidential administration that has no one in it's numbers with a business history or a military history , Who are they ? Highly paid social workers , intellectual social reformers on steroids ,social reconstructionist's . No wonder we have devolved into a welfare nation bent upon the economic "reparations " for one and for all !
Who would the "reparations" come from and who deserves to receive them ?
I believe Jackclee brought up reparations. He was asking me what I thought about them. Do you think I am seeking reparations.
"breeding" This is an interesting term because animals breed. During slavery, Africans were considered animals. In fact, slave owners did make the women have sex with men in order to bred stronger children. "Those younger generations entering the work force" are beginning to work. Those are certainly not the ones you should worry about. Worry about the ones without jobs.
"Everyone starts out with the trophy in hand." Who is everyone?
ahorseback, it appears that you are stereotyping everyone to fit the narrative you are discussing. I challenge you to name three people who have asked for reparations. I don't know anyone. It is my understanding that the slaves were promised land (The 40 acres and a mule) " Freed people widely expected to legally claim 40 acres (16 ha) of land (a quarter-quarter section) and a mule after the end of the war, long after proclamations such as Sherman's Special Field Orders, No. 15 and the Freedmen's Bureau Act were explicitly reversed." I picked that up from wikopedia.
For people whose families work for 400 years under slavery for nothing (FREE), was it unreasonable to expect 40 acres of land and a mule to work themselves up to earn their own money?
There were Africans involved in slavery. They got their blood money and went on with their lives. White men drug the slaves over to the us and didn't know what to do with them once they were freed. They wanted to continue to treat them like animals which perpetuated a bad situation which had economic consequences of astronomical proportions. It would have been better to give them 40 acres, a mule and respect than scorn, hatred and attempts to exterminate them by the KKK.
You have a hard heart ahorseback. When you can't acknowledge what is all around you on social media, in the goverment, in middle class neighborhoods, in classrooms and, yes, in the White House. Many Black people have overcome in spite of racial hatred.
"Many Black people have overcome in spite of racial hatred."
They have indeed. Perhaps because that "racial hatred" is more perception on the part of those that don't succeed than it is a reality?
Wilderness: Ask the black people that were shot as a result of hate crimes. Ask the family of those that were shot what the reality is.
Perhaps we should ask the families of the cops in Dallas as well?
People will hate, and people will be racist but that doesn't mean that others cannot succeed in spite of a few that would deny them. If, however, those "others" decide that systemic racism is always going to hold them back, that the whole world is against them and preventing success, well, surprise! They will never succeed.
wilderness: Who have you heard say that systemic racism is going to hold them back?
Isn't that what it's all about? The BLM, affirmative action, that blacks can't get good jobs, etc.?
Plus of course, Diane's comment that "Many Black people have overcome in spite of racial hatred.
Many have. Not all!
Welfare is a systemic problem.
There were systemic problems in Ferguson. They need money, give more tickets. The requirement to show identification before voting created problems. As a matter of fact, it obviously required a certain type of identification. I read that the requirements were relaxed in four states, including Texas, that require the identification.
There are different degrees of issues along the spectrum. It is not a matter of either there is or there isn't.
Most police officers are good officers; however, there are some that are not.
When I speak of cases where I have problems with the officers, I do not include Ferguson. I feel Mike Brown was outrageous to have just robbed a place, assaulted a clerk and THEN walk in the street after being told not to. Everyone knew that police give tickets for walking in the middle of the street. To do so, after committing a crime was super stupid.
HOWEVER, it is shameful that people vilified Trayvon Martin, lied on him and tried to come up with reasons why he should have been killed. That was racism in full form. They couldn't find any Black jurors and then the jury foreman was the wife of an attorney who was allowed to come in in and have lunch with her.
The police and community need to come together. In many places, this is happening. I just had a FB post on a group site. The person was asking, "How can we as Christian musicians support Black Lives Matter" I referred to the website and interviews I heard on social media to tell them why they should NOT support BLM. Then I told how they should create their own effort to bring the community and police together, including churches, businesses, officers, local government officials and youth. She wanted me to elaborate and I may be going to talk to the group. I would like to get more opportunities.
When you have weak links in your armor, you weaken your position and impact.
Mike Brown was a thug, yes. But Trayvon Martin? Well, yes, he was a thug too, a thug with a record that attacked a man instead of talking to him. That probably doesn't mean he should be killed, but attack an armed man and you WILL pay a price - it isn't a smart thing to do.
Black jurors - does any trial involving black people require special jury procedures? In Zimmerman's case, are you trying to say that blacks will vote "guilty" based on skin color and should therefore be used?
One of the neatest pictures I've seen lately was a line of cops in front of a racially enraged mob...with a line of people (mostly black) in front of them, protecting the police. It isn't the average black person causing the trouble - it is the hoodlums like Brown and the activists like Sharpton. Without those two there would be little trouble. It might take a decade or even two, but the troubles would die out.
Zimmerman stalked Trayvon. Zimmerman himself is a total creep.
Trayvon was the average teenager you see in school. If he smoked weed, no biggy. I had students ask to go to the bathroom during testing. They smelled like weed when they came back. Most of them have cellphones and stay on them 24/7. No one talks to a girl on the phone while they are breaking and entering. There is no sign that he was anywhere near a window or door to the house. There is no justification for a stranger following him. There were conflicting accounts giving. The dead teenager didn't get to tell his side. Can't we give him the benefit of the doubt.
Why are you so certain he was a thug?
I had a police officer follow me when I was much younger and had a flashy car. He turned on his light. I pulled over to the parking lot on the opposite side of the street. The traffic was single lane both directions.. He said, "You were swerving. Would you get out of the car please." I told him I would follow him to the police station but I was not getting out of the car. He got back in his car and followed me back to my apartment building. I didn't park. I drove back across the river (from North Little Rock to Little Rock) and got in bed with my mom. That as scary.
It sounds like you are saying there are no dirty cops. Here is the officer last year who framed a Black guy and white guy then committed suicide. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015 … /75145690/
If you have bad morals before you put the uniform on, you will have the same morals when you wear it.
No Trayvon was most certainly not an average teenager. He was staying with relatives because he was in too much trouble at home in (Texas, I think). Trouble in school, trouble with the law, trouble everywhere he went.
Zimmerman, on the other hand, was a wannabe cop that couldn't make the grade but could be a community patrolman. Whose job was too watch for suspicious characters, and an unknown teen at night in a hoodie is exactly that. Zimmerman did his job well...until he began following on foot, where he crossed the line in what his task was. But he didn't do anything to warrant being attacked, either - they BOTH did stupid, unwarranted actions, Martin just paid the price (although Zimmerman has too, now) because he attacked an armed man.
Dirty cops - there most certainly ARE dirty cops. My own son was chased out of town by one of them - a cop that changed his traffic stop report and lied on the new one. That carried out illegal search and seizures. That targeted young drivers and hounded them until they lost their license. Dirty cops most certainly exist and they aren't all picking on black kids and they don't always do what they do for racist reasons. There are dirty police forces as well and even dirty towns that use traffic stops as a method of funding the town's needs. But they aren't racist, either - on the contrary they are often quite race blind, stealing from anyone passing through town.
You do know George Zimmerman was on his way to Target, or so he says, to get groceries. He called his wife to validate his story. She had actually left him the night before and was staying with her parents. He was not hired nor was he an a member of neighborhood watch. He told police he was the president. He was a renter. He seems to have been bragging about it today, four years later. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016 … /88273212/
He has proven himself to be a true creep over the past four years. I guess it's better to be a Hispanic creep than a Black creep.
You don't know anything about parents getting divorced and having teenagers go through issues. I see it all the time in inner city schools. I knew nothing about it until I started teaching. Many teens go through conflicts with their parents when they're in their teens. I had problems with my dad and my parents were together. I left home, unplanned, when I was 17 after an argument with my father.
It is common among white people, NOT ALL but those who want to justify killing Black people, that they be villified. I don't agree with the organization BLM on many levels. I do understand what the intent of the statement was intended to mean. Killing of Black people is justified by telling how flawed and dispensable they are. The statement is saying those that were killed mean something to somebody. They have people that love them. God loves them. Give them a chance.
You can't make a blanket statement about all bad police and say they have they same intent. Everybody's different. The bad ones have their own differing reasons. The copy that blamed a Black person for his killing (that was a suicide) knew how easy it would be for people to believe a Black person did it because that is something they would do.
I can provide online reports of people killing their children, spouses, etc., and blamed Black people because they knew people would believe it. Black men have been released from jail after 20 - 40 years on a death sentence because dna proved that people lied on them.
Mostly I agree. Zimmerman WAS a creep. But having a bad home life doesn't excuse a thug from being a thug, and it doesn't excuse attacking a man.
No, killing people (ANY people, not just blacks) isn't justified by saying how bad they are...but neither is hanging a cop out to dry because they killed someone with black skin. Very few killings, black, white or other, have been unjustified; Brown is a good example. It happens, yes, but a small fraction of what the BLM would have us believe.
Yep - black people have been released on DNA evidence. So have whites and Hispanics. Your point?
By what you say about Trayvon, 75^ of kids in inner cities could be classified as thugs. When I first started teaching, I might have agreed with you. I'm glad I did teach because it helped me understand what is going on in the inner city.
Thank God for DNA. Hopefully, everyone who has similar situations will be released.
Today, I read about a Rialto woman, one that Obama signed her release papers today, who received life for handing an envelope with ^250 in it to a guy who was driving cocaine from Rialto to Washington, DC. She had no prior record. She is Hispanic. I'm glad she was released. The sentence was way to harsh.
I'm not mad at you Wilderness. I could still hug you. We are talking about very uncomfortable things and it is a blessing.
Hey ahorseback, I'm not mad at you either. Please keep commenting!
Diana, I wrote a new hub that address some of the discussion here. I hope you take it on face value. I have no hidden agenda. Please respond in the comment section with any criticism or objections.
Let's start a real dialog and try to work towards a solutions.
I am not naive to think it would be solved in a short time. It will take time and perhaps even a generation. No reason not to start...Peace.
http://hubpages.com/politics/If-I-was-a … in-America
Hi Jackclee?
While you have good information, as a teacher, I'm concerned about your method of disseminating the information and what would motivate one to listen. You have to have something to draw them in.
Who is the target audience?
How do you plan to reach them?
Do you have role models closer to their ages?
You are possibly bring in negatives that may cause younger people to tune out?
Is this an attempt to make them conservatives rather than liberals?
How much of this information will you present at one time?
Might they relate more to apps on their phones that might provide some of this information?
Will there be a lecture or some type of gathering where you go through this with them in small chunks?
You ask good questions but no comment on the message. At least you didn't reject them out right. What is wrong with a conservative point of view vs. liberal? Aren't we debating what is the best course of action? As a teacher, what do you teach your students? I would like to know your solutions in practice.
Teaching children is very different from having a conversation with adults.
Kids want to you who you are and why are you talking to them.
They want to know what's the catch.
I could say oh those are great points; however, I would be speaking from 65 years of life experience. You have to be able to communicate at their level.
They are not going to agree that Ben Carson is a good role model and Al Sharpton is awful because you say so.
Teachers learn to speak in their language to get their attention. So they learn whole new meanings to works like "sick, turnt, on fleek, etc."
You have to give them a reason to connect with you. It's unbelievable to me that there are 28 people following this forum. Others have forums on the same subject but for some reason this is different. When you tell people how to think, you lose a lot of them.
I have to disagree respectfully. Kids don't get to decide who to believe or listen to...They are there to learn from you the adult. When I was growing up, teachers were respected. There were consequences and harsh discipline for kids that are disruptive. That has all gone out the window. It is the adult that must dictate and control the conversation. They do not get to pick the language or slang of choice. They don't know any better at that age.
You didn't answer my question. What are you teaching them? Are you getting results. If not, why not?
As a conservative, I am also pragmatic. I will change if the results are not there. I am not tied to any ideology. Unfortunatey, from what I can tell, the current school system is not.
Yes, and I use to be able to purchase a candy bar for 10 cents. People have access to information today that would have been inconceivable 50 years ago, conservatives always seem to have arguments and solutions mired in the past.
If that's the hill you want to die on, that's great. I speak from 20 years of teaching. I was very effective for 15 of those years when I was allowed to select students for my advanced classes. This is from one of my former students who now owns a Nike store and employees 5 people. She's only about 27.
Tonbara Youpele at Los Cerritos Center.
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I read this last year and wrote some visions down. I lost sight of what I wrote but after reflecting today, I realized that God delivered on most of them! Life is good when you serve a miracle working God! It's time to build on my blessings and write down some more. #isntGodGood #hedidit #thankful #teamtonbara #startingyourdayright #joycemeyer #heisalwaysworking #nodaysoff #1dayatatime #godstimingisalwaysperfect #ifyoudontknownowyouknow
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Well it didn't all come across; however, I am proud of students I taught. If you'd like, I can share videos from Youtube of their performances. I do have a Facebook page that shows their performance level as well as accomplishments. One graduated with honors from UCLA this past year, majoring in journalism and theater production.
Each person can have their ideals of what should be done. They only lead if someone is willing to follow them.
You asked my opinion. I was being honest. If you really want to have an impact on Black inner city kids, you need to spend some time with them. They don't care what you think until they know you care.
How do I do that? I am not a teacher, or administrator or a politician, or a community organizer? I am just one citizen that recognized a problem in the making for 50 years and no solutions in sight. We hear politicians and unions asking for more funding and getting them and yet no better results. I am baffled by the lack of urgency of some. Why can't they fix this? It wasn't always this way...
You are retired, volunteer your time to take a closer look. You might find those warm and fuzzy Reagan era adages of yours proven inappropriate under close examination.
Which ones are you referring to? Reagan is my hero, he believed in America as the shining city on the hill. His policies was color blind. His economic recovery benefited all people of all races. His biggest accomplishment was ending the cold war and bring doen the iron curtain. He is revered by many foreigners of the former soviet union. Did you know? His star wars defense system is the same that is protecting Israel today from missiles from Palestinian territories. Tell me which of Reagan's policies are hurtful? In case you forgot, Reagan was re-elected in his 2nd term by 49 out of 50 states. Who is out of touch with reality? Not me.
You want a list, I am working on it for you, Jack.
I look forward to it.
I welcome civil debate on issues and policy...
If you want to take the discussion off to another venue, it may work better.
I encourage you to create a hub on the topics. I can make responses in the comment area without the 250 characters limit here.
I have not been able to create hubs as my computer needs to be replace and I am operating from an I-pad. I will do my best to provide you with my data.
I use my iPad all the time. It is a lttle harder to emter text but It works for the most part. I am able to add images and links...It is great when I am on the road. Wish you luck in getting your computer working.
In the meantime, this forum will do fine.
Jack, here are some of my points in this pro and con display, see link.
I couldn't just rant about this man, REagan, without being fair.
I did like his optimism and can do attitude during a period when we desparely needed it. While I don't like Republicans generally, I found myself rooting for his success in so many areas. Who can forget how he stood tall during the assassination attempt in March, 1981.
But, he was not an Abe Lincoln, FDR, or even Lyndon Johnson or Bill Clinton.
Wasteful and excessive military spending, the real hero for ending the Cold War was Mikhail Gorbachov.
He was the father and inventor of deficit spending.
Turning the clock backwards on Civil Rights Issues. You were in China while I was living with these things in real time.
http://reagan.procon.org/#pro_con
And racism is a live and well today.
Yesterday, I went to Kohl's to look for a posturepedic pillow. I heard a request for someone to go to the bedding department. I was there more than 1 minutes and never say anyone.
After I picked a pillow, I went to lingerie. I heard a request for someone to go to the lingerie department. I stayed there five minutes and saw no one.
Point: That was the cue to watch for a thief.
Today, I went to 99 cent store to return Farmer John chorizo link sausage because I didn't realize I picked up the wrong one. The cashier I spoke with told me I needed to speak with the manager who was on register 5. I went there and explained. She asked where my receipt was. I told her I didn't have the receipt. She said I couldn't return them. I told her ok she could keep them. I left them at the register and got a basket to shop When I walked back up toward the check out, someone called for the manager. She came over and told me she would allow me to make the change.
Point: She thought the link sausage was stolen in the first place. She expected me to "go to the hood" on her and I was not mad.
Oprah related several incidents that happened to her.
If anyone has worked in a department store, I'm sure you know the code!
Just one amonst the many irritating realities of racism that are not seen by our white fellow citizens, therefore difficult to acknowledge. We, had been stalked by security personnel in relatively upscale department stores in Denver's relatively posh Cherry Creek neighborhood. I know the drill.
Sorry to hear that. Racism is alive and well. Anyone who denies it is just deluded themselves.
Thank you People! It means a lot when there are people who recognize it. It's not that I expect anyone to be on a guilt trip or I'm angry. I'm use to it but really offended when someone tells me I'm being too sensitive.
It's good I didn't get help in Kohl's yesterday because when I did online research, I found out I had the right pillow in the first place.
I knew how to navigate the 99 Cent Store. It actually showed who was smartest!
Thanks People, it is not lethal, we have evolved many defense mechanisms as a byproduct of living here. It is always easier when you are psychologically prepared to be assualted like this at any time.
BTW, I don't think Donald Trump is a racist but he sure knows how to attract them. He is talking about bringing jobs back. Technology has changed the way things are done. I really think all of those "has been" middle class people should learn the latest methods and trends. We should be looking foward with vision rather than looking by with nostalgia.
The transition would taken many years. Then that will be included in politics. Then when it doesn't work as Trump says, then what? That is going to be a blow to the economy. Economists have already said it's going to turn America on its head. Then people will be blaming each other for that.
Affirmative action was started to remedy that fact that white people would not hire qualified Black people. Then Black people were blamed because white people couldn't get jobs. By looking online, it is easy to see that there are many jobs available. They are not assembly line jobs.
We should be looking forward and working together, regardless of color.
I tried to avoid the dredded 'racist' word when it came to Trump, but based on his involvement in clearly discriminatory renting practices for residential property he and his father owned during the 70's, I would say that the description applies.
Now he uses coded racist language to antagonize resentful whites looking for someone to blame for their declining fortunes. True to the MO of any true tyrant, he directs their attention to his or her neighbor as the cause. He baits and switches, as the real reasons have a great deal to do with a changing economy that displaces the unprepared through either outsourcing or technological advancement.He is a part of that 'displacing' entity as a large portion of the products he manufacturers for sale are made in China. Ask his wife where the majority of her clothing line is manufactured and it's not here in the USA?
Yet, he is the guy that is supposed to prevent outsourcing of AMERICAN jobs in direct contradiction to the very principles that capitalism is based upon. Why not start with the enterprises that he controls?
Trump deals in nostalgia of older folks longing for a return to an AMERICA of the past, and so many buy it as some sort fantasy that they believe only he can make happen. Whatever problems we have need to be solved with an eyetowardtoday and tomorrow, not yesterday. My deceased aunt growing up in early 20th century America used to reminisce with me about the relative simplicity of operating a horse drawn cart. But would you trade your SUV for one? What these Trump supporters fail to realize is that thepast was rarely as good in actuality as they would have like to think. There were simply just a differing set of problems.
I have tried to explain to many why and with what objective was behind "affirmative action". They all think that there is no more discrimation against minority groups and that all of this was taken to an extreme where they now blame Minorities for the fact of a dearth of available employment opportunities.
That is a great misunderstanding between us, as I have tried to ask folks what mechanism do we use to be sure that people are hired and promoted based on qualifications and abilities solely? Because it was obvious that this had notbeen the case prior to the program's inception.
It seems I remember someone suggesting that people apply for jobs online - including the interview. The applications should not include any reference to ethnicity.
Credence2, I wish you would reframe from using the term code words... with regard to racism. I am not a fan of both Hillary and Trump as I have stated many places... However, Trump is not a racist. Don't try to use this as some way to hurt him because it won't work. The American people are smarter than that. When you use the racist card or imply it, when there is none, you cheapen that term. Trump says a lot of outrageous thing. You have to realize by now that that is his modus operandi. He does this to get attention and free press coverage. The press is falling right into his game... I refuse to participate.
As a conservative, I often get that criticism also. When I espouse some conservative principles, some will take it as "racist" code words when nothing could be farther from the truth. Sometimes, I wish people would just listen to the whole message and not be distracted by so called "code" words which does not exist for the most part, at least in my vocabulary. I call them as I see them.
Jackclee, your last couple of sentences are key. Some people they that they are not racist so there is no racism. I do realize that you acknowledge that racism exists but possibly on a small scale.
When I was in my 20s I had to have a lot of bladder surgery. Like the one Black guy you worked with some time ago, I was the only Black person in the office. Comments were made about the possibility that I was "faking." One night I had a bladder obstruction and was taken to the emergency room. They did x-rays, said I needed a surgeon, and started shoveling a tube down my nose, and started a morphine drip. A friend that was with me called my office. The section head said he wanted to talk to me. I'm sure I muttered some kind of response. Here was a situation, "You couldn't be sick because I feel just fine." Long story to say some people refuse to believe racism exist because they "are not racists."
I'm reading an interesting article this morning on "The Original Underclass." It's about non-college whites who lost jobs in factories and blame it on minorities. They're are doing nothing to improve their condition. They are just talking about the good old days.
Gotta stop! I have physical/occupational therapy at 10. I have severe carpal tunnel.
Hope you feel better...Your health is the most important thing.
Diana, BTW, Here is a link to my old group. If you scroll down towards the bottom, you can see a group photo of some of our dept. members at that time.
http://hubpages.com/business/Image-Tech … up-Members
It was a diverse group and we never let race be a factor in what we do.
This photo was taken in the mid 1990's.
I would also say, the IBM Research Division probably have the highest number of minorities and foreigners among all IBM divisions.
It's possible. IBM had government contracts and was required to "not" discriminate. I was the first Black person in payroll for Hughes Aircraft, the largest defense employer in California. That's crazy. I did payroll for 5 years in Arkansas, from 12th grade to college. No one in the department had a college degree. I was the first. There's that covert racism. Black people were on assembly line and maintenance jobs.
Diana, how do you answer the questions Jack asked you in previous comment?
Another example of bias that is subtle, you always to be twice as good to receive half as much credit. Being a contemporary of mine, I am sure that someone shared that with you
You betcha! And I had to prove myself on a daily basis. I was ready for it. When I developed the tough exterior I needed, then I was considered "arrogant."
Ibm, along with most government contractors have always been exemplary in this regard having to comply with equal opportunities laws for such contractors going back to FDR. As a result, it is not always a representative example. I was attracted to Government employment by those gurantees and protections. So, I am not necessarily overwhelmed by the concept of 'Big Government'.
From my own personal experience at IBM, for 28 years, from 1974 till 2002, I never saw one incidence of racism against any race. IBM had a policy of hiring the best talent and pay commensurate with performance. I would also go even furthur back in my school days at CCNY, from 1969-1974. I didn't see much of racism either. I was part of a very diverse team of all races. We traveled to various schools to compete. Many were Ivy league schools. We were the most diverse among all the schools.
We all got along as teammates and cheered each other on and party together afterwards.
I am not saying there weren't personal bigotry. I am just saying as institutions, college and business, I did not come across racism. I am Asian.
Some of my Asian students opened my eyes to the cross they bear. People expect all Asians to be smart and at the head of the class. Asian exchange students were delightful to me because I was always able to get them into my advanced chooir. I had some kids who just were not not at the top of the class.. I had a Chinese exchange student( failing student) that stayed beyond this visa and went to New York. I don't now how he will straighten that out.
A Jewish American secretary at worked told me she hates being called an "Ice Princess." I'd never heard of it. It's part of the stereotype about all Jews are expected to be rich. I had always heard that all Jews are rich.
These are examples of racial stereotypes that people would like to know "are NOT true!" The stereotypes create problems for them.
The stereotypical cross that educated/working Black people have to bear...."You are not like the rest of them!" Who? The Black people I see on television and in the news.
Cmon Jack, you can't actually be that much out of touch with things. I never got after you for criticizing what appeared to you as irrational behavior by certain Minority groups only because many times your assessments are the correct ones.
But, what Trump is doing is different.
So, how is that he can engage in racist behavior and yet not be racist? You know what they say ' if it walks like a ducks, quacks like a duck then it must be a Donald' right?
Before you start talking, may I direct to the Internet where Trumps resistance to fair housing statutes resulted in lawsuits by African American tenants who attempted to lease property and were denied outright while there were vacancies available for white applicants. Conservative types find it convenient to turn their heads 180 degrees about to avoid what is clearly in front of them.
He was the mover and shaker behind the birther movement. He accused the President of only attending Harvard due to affirmative action.
And you don't need to participate, because I already do. Make a critical investigation from the pointifviewof affected groups that he has denigrated in the course of his campaign. You will see that our community are keen to theconservatives' subterfuge regarding this man and that we have seen his sort before. Being flamboyant and anti-Pc are just excuses to conceal a bigoted core of a man devoid of a soul and lasting principle.
I stand by what I said regarding Mr. Trump. How can he succeed in Hollywood with a show like the Apprentice year after year if he had a racist bone in his body?
Look what happened to Paula Deen? and others that were forced to apologize and lost shows...
Did Mr. Trump get preferential treatment?
or is this a case of presidential politics at its worse.
They try to do similar things to Romney by painting him as an out of touch 1% in 2012...
Trump is an egotist, not a racist.
Racism takes many sophisticated forms just because you have 'one' over for dinner, or you don't burn crosses on anyone's lawn, does not mean you are the 'good guy'. I am pursuing this in the spirit that Diana intended in creating this thread, to educate and inform, echanging information and point of views. Racism and its practices are far more subtle and intricate in this day and age. To survive, Trump plays the PC Card to the extent necessary in polite society. There are plenty of racist that work their way around the system out of necessity. But what do you say and do when you think that no one is looking?
We don't have a thought police society. That's where you and I and other may disagree on what is the definition of racism.
Here is my personal take: (it may help you to think of it as well)
1. There will always be some form of personal racism in our society and in fact in any human society that is diverse. There is no way to eliminate that form of racism, only to shun them.
2. Institutional racism is the one I focus on and the one's we as a society can fix and have made tremendous progress in this area. There are numerous laws in the books to stop this.
In fact, we go out of our way sometimes to make amends such as quotas and affirmative actions...
3. Don't confuse racism with discrimination. We as humans are born with discrimination in our DNA. We learn from early on that we judge others by how they appear... people of similar race and other attributes tends to group together for natural survival. Animals do the same...
Some discrimination is a good attribute. When discrimination, as defined by with employment, or rentals or other aspects of human activities, we have laws to deal with that and that includes races and gender and other forms of discrimination as defined by the courts.
For example, you can discriminate against certain foods that you may not like, or certain music that you don't appreciate... That in itself is a personal choice. It is not racism if I don't happen to like rap music...
4. Not everything is about race. I notice this in many discussions. It is always in the back of some people's minds. It should not be the case. Somethings in life are just that, differences. Don't try to make it about race. The "code" words that you speak of are such. I say something based on the dictionary definition of a word. You have no way of knowing whether I am using it as a "code" word. To assume so, every time you hear the word is making it a racial issue when it may not be. If the KKK member say it, I can see how it may be interpreted as racist.
5. To make progress on race relations, it will take discussion and understanding and patience on both sides. You will never make any progress if you constantly bring up the old and not allow the new to slip in...
Let me end by the following that is relevant to the current political landscape. I did not vote for President Obama in both 2008 and 2012. I did so based on his policies and politics and not his skin color. When I criticize him on various policies, I have my right to do so without people on the other side claiming I am racist for opposing Obama. I am not a racist and I don't need to defend that every time. It is disingenuous of some of the left to constantly bring up the race card to shut down any discussions.
The TEA party movement is also a prime example. The press and others paint a picture that the TEA party is racist from the start. It is not and never was. It was started as an objection to big government over spending our tax dollars and putting the whole country into debt. TEA party stands for Tax Enough Already. President Obama got into the mix and called them derogatory names like tea baggers... He then uses the power of the IRS to give TEA party groups extra scrutiny...Who is the racist in this case...?
Here is an article from a renown business publication, Fortune Magazine, making my point about Mr. Trump. Why don't you read and tell me what your conclusions are about Trump?
http://fortune.com/2016/06/07/donald-tr … sm-quotes/
1. You are correct about racism, it is the natural human tendency to favor its tribe over others. But, the civil and enlightened attitude says that you should check and zip up your fly before you leave the house. If we are going to survive as a species we had best get past these primitive lines of thought.
2. The tools that are used to make sure that equality is a cornerstone and not just lip service in this culture are frequently resisted by conservatives. I question if conservatives really want a level playing field, rather then let unjustified inequities persist as the status quo. While we had made progress, let's make sure that the powers that be remember that we need to move forward toward the goal, not backward.
3. We humans have the ability to reason over the difference of having preference for cabbage or not verses judging people in an organized and supposidly civilized society based on anything other than relevant qualifying factors. Anything less is positively Flintstone. The laws that have been put in place are often times circumvented, such the need for BLM. I can dislike Romanians, but civility demands that in the public sphere, I treat them equally. You keep your bigotry and biases to yourself and at home.
4. I did not say that everything is about race, but in Trump's case, it is. I have never criticized you in this regard, having naive conservative values concepts as to how things are to be done, is one thing. I have not confused the the that with race baiters.
5. Elaborate on your idea of letting the 'new slip in'?
6.there were plenty of reasons to vote against Obama based on a conservative ideology, I never implied that anything otherwise was the case. I am surprised that you actually believed to yourself to be confronted and threatened by such things.
4.
Credence2, I just read the story in fortune magazine. I must say it is a very one side report that contains lots of bias. As I said before, I am not a Trump supporter. It is not my place to defend him with all the stuff he says. I do believe he is not a racist. We can all have our opinions.
With regard to your other comments...
1. What are you talking about "these primitive lines of thought...", it is human nature, it is part of our DNA and our survival instinct. It is not "racism" unless the group use its bias to hurt another group economically or otherwise.
2. What specific Conservative positions are backwards? and "let unjustified inequities persist"? I think you have a miss conceptions about Conservatives which I write about in my other hubs- Conservative Principles Defined. Please identify which Conservative Principles are discriminatory in your opinion?
3. I don't know how you can legislate this - "against bigotry"... We have freedom in this country and it gives everyone the right to free speech and thought even if you disagree with it... Do you really understand the First Amendment? It is not there to protect PC speech.
4. So you think my conservative ideas are naive. Well, the proof is in the pudding. I will match my ideas against yours any day. Give me your liberal progressive ideas and I will match it with conservative ideas. It's a challenge if you are open to it.
5. My idea or advice is to let the old victimhood go by the way side. Let the "new" idea of MLK's dream of a color blind society where we are judged by the content of our character...
6. I was not referring that comment to you personally and please don't take offense. That statement was made against many in the media and in the political realm of pundits and strategists... I can pull up numerous comments by politicians who makes that claim. "If you are against Obama's policies, you are a racist..." Please don't tell me that's the first you ever heard of it.
Jack, this is where some of my problems with your 'desire for understanding' that stems from:
So why is the article one sided in your opinion, do you have any evidence to refute what is found there?
What I see as evidence of provocative bigotry, is just for you some form of elaborate misinterpretation from a respected publication. Is this more of the 'Dreaded liberal media excuse? Does someone have to have bonafide credentials as a KKK member for you to consider racism as a motive?
What do you think we have speaking of? One overwhelming economically and politically powerful group using its biases to hurt others outside of its tribe.
I apologize about my reflex actions regarding conservatives and their ideology without having a closer look at your proposals. But, I have discussed some aspects with you.
You can't legislate against bigotry, but you can against discrimation in the public sphere and I want no holds barred in regards to this.
You think that Dr. King did not have to agitate to get society to even begin to recognize the significance and true meaning in terms of actionable policy of his famous and iconic comment? Dr. King and his close associates risked their lives in pursuit of the ideals behind his quotes, that now seem to slide so easily from the tongues of so many.
Yes, I have heard people make the association between opposition to Obama with racism. I can't speak for others on the left side of things, but that has never been my opinion.
BTW, No offense taken......
Jack, there are some white people are smarter than Black people. Some of it comes out through ignorant statements that people make. I worked with a teacher who hated Black History Month and Cinco de Mayo. She said her ancestors came over as indentured servants and they did OK. She had no concept of what slavery was about and is the type that calls "race card" when someone mentions slavery.
People like this in positions of power will always have a valid reason to hire the white person and turn the Black person away. You can't legislate away racism. When you have sensitivity classes, the racists hate them and it never changes their minds.
Excellent points Credence2! And you fully understand my purpose. You get me!!!! Thank you!
Paula Deen lost her show AFTER the issue was made public.
Maybe that's why:
“At NBC, respect and dignity for all people are cornerstones of our values,” NBC said in a statement. “Due to the recent derogatory statements by Donald Trump regarding immigrants, NBCUniversal is ending its business relationship with Mr. Trump.”
NBC will no longer air the Miss USA and Miss Universe pageants on its network either, both of which were part of a joint venture with Trump. NBC will retain the rights to Celebrity Apprentice, but Trump will no longer be involved. (2015)
The head of entertainment at NBC says Donald Trump won't be allowed to return to "Celebrity Apprentice."
"He would never be back on 'Celebrity Apprentice' as long as I'm here." (2016)
Thanks for that information. It is politically correct for NBC to take the side of the Democrats in every election. This latest is an example of that. For years and years, the Apprentice was a huge success and made them lots of money... No racism came up then... Only now, he is running for President and bring up the illegal immigration issue, is he branded a racist... how convenient... NBC and NBC news is as dishonest as they get. I would not rely them for anything called "news". Meanwhile, they ignore the whole Iran fiasco that Obama and Clinton has wrought the past 7 years...
BTW, did NBC News report on this latest story regarding Clinton's emails...?
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cotto … le/2598807
The issue of racism didnot come up because he was not running for President, that's pretty easy. You can expect greater scrutiny in this circumstance. Where are his tax returns? His comments regarding ethnic groups were both coarse and insensitive, and NBC, like others within the Capitalist world, cannot afford to PO large blocks of viewers and sponsors. They are just following the money.
Do you know for a fact that NBCdid not report on the Clinton E-mail story?
Credence2, you are free to search for that story. Let your own unbiased mind decide.
It is hard for me to try and demonstrate the obvious. The media is biased against the Republican and conservatives? That is a statement of fact. It used to be they try to hide that fact. In the days when the news was dominated by ABC, CBS and NBC, you were not given any choice. Walter Cronkite was the most trusted man in America when he delivered the evening news. It was only years later after his retirement, did we learn he was a liberal politically speaking. Now a days, the media is proud to be liberal and it is 90% majority of the news rooms. That alone does not bother me. There are plenty of alternative media with talk radio and he internet. What is disturbing to me is their dishonesty. They have traded their power as the watchdog to be in bed with the Democrats. The way they spin the news and cover for Democrats and exagerates Republicans as representing the evil rich white folks... Guess who donates to the Democrats... Goldman Sachs...
As for the story, I will do that.
The myth of left wing biased media, is just that, a myth, that Conservatives continue to promulgate when ever things don't go their way. But, again that is just my opinion.
How do you think Walter Cronkite managed to become so trusted if he were not capable of reporting the news accurately and without bias? It is possible for people to separate their political views relative to their obligation to the jobs that they hold. True professionals do it all the time.
Maybe someone should mention that to Trump, that a sworn U.S district judge is capable of being impartial in evaluating a case even if his forebears come from Mexico. That place where Trump says he is going to build a wall, and it follows that anyone of Mexican ancestry would automatically be biased against him? What sort of reasoning is that?
Credence2,
I will not defend what Trump say or don't say. However, on the issue of immigration reform, I agree with Mr. Trump. I have been writing about this long before Trump. It is insane for our country to allow anyone to just come here, over stay their visa, or sneak across our borders and expect to stay and work...
No other country does this including Mexico. They have one of the strictest immigration policy.
It is also hard for me to believe how the black community supports the Democratic platform of an open borders society. Especially, they are being hurt by those very policy as a minority group. One reason why the youth unemployment is so high is the large number of illegals coming here and taking low wage jobs. These jobs use to be for teenagers as an entry to the job force. They were never intended to be a job that pays living wages. Please explain to me, why you support illegal immigration.
OK, Jack, that is a fair question. I don't support illegal immigration.
These issues do not fall on deaf ears within the Black community. It is the general tone of Trumps attacks on the Hispanic and Muslim communities, along with so many other policies in the GOP platform, not to mention its standard bearer that are problematic and take precedence as to selecting the candidate that is the least distasteful, regardless of the fact that we do not have total satisfaction as to our objectives with the Democratic candidate. Of course, the issue is a problem but there are many forces responsible for the relative decline in wages within the AMERICAN economy.
For us, while 10 percent of the Democratic platform we can take issue with, 90% of the GOP platform sucks. So, if you were in our shoes.......
There are thoughtful ones among us that see and understand the significance of the issue, but in the face of a possible victory by Donald Trump and the Republicans, we simply have bigger fish to fry.
No, I was here in NY. I immigrated to the US in 1961 when I was 10. I suffered thru the Carter years whom I voted for by the way. I was working in IBM during the Reagan years. I remember the high inflation rate in the early years and how Reagan brought it down with lower taxes and less government regulations. He also offered the illegals a one time amnesty along with the promise by Congress of securing the borders. They lied. He save social security for a generation. You will have to be more specific in spelling out which exact policy he implemented that hurt anyone... He believed in a limited federal government as a true conservative. His optimism was infectious. He truly believed in America. He was able to work with a Democratic controlled Congress under Tip O'neil and got things done. I can go on and on about Reagan because I read most of the book about him. More important, I read his own writings that was published. You can really learn about a man and what he stands for by reading his own words. Unfortunately, many in the press and the media try to distort his character and his accomplishments. The cold war would not have ended without Reagan working with Thatcher and Pope John Paul the 2nd. Most historian would agree with me and that is why he is ranked among the top President in the 20th century.
Get finger printed and have a background check done. Volunteer to work in inner city schools teaching life skills. Take them on field trips to government agencies to get an overview of their jobs. Become a mentor or big brother.
Go to the school board and ask how you might be able to help.
Unfortunately, I live miles away from the inner cities school that needs help the most. I am will to help what I can. I can identify role models that will be an excellent start... How they get disseminated in the schools is up to great teachers like yourself.
My latest hero is Sheriff David Clarke. I wish he would run for national office.
Wilderness: Uh, I think you missed the point or have the right wing definition. Black Lives Matter is about the deaths of black people in killings by law enforcement officers, and broader issues of racial profiling, police brutality, and racial inequality in the United States criminal justice system. It's about police killing innocent black people and after months and years of Grand Jury proceedings, the officers are not charged. Yes there are crimes committed by white and black as well. But when an unarmed black person is shot while trying to help an autistic person, I think outrage is justified, don't you? That's just one example. I'm sure you have heard of many more.
You know better, you just don't want to talk about what the BLM has become.
http://hubpages.com/politics/forum/1373 … -statement
Here is their policy statement, all about giving blacks money and giving them their own little country inside America, with their own laws and own police.
This isn't about police abuse, or profiling or racial inequality; it's about a group of racists promoting their race above all others.
And when you talk about an armed (armed from what the police knew) man pointing a gun and a bystander gets shot - well, it is inexcusable that they missed but it is NOT racist and it isn't about blacks. It's just another excuse to scream RACISM! when there isn't any.
It's not uncommon these days for white racists to call the opposition racist. That's because they are desperate, and have fewer remedies for the "uppity" and educated minorities. I only wish my parents were alive to see this. They would get a big kick out of seeing Archie and friends circling the wagons and preparing for their last stand against the "dark races". It must be very difficult going from the glory days of Bull Connor to Obama, Black Lives Matter, and the ever growing popularity and influence of the Black Muslims. Like Merle Haggard said,"If you don't love it leave it!" You could always catch a slow boat back to Europa.
And it isn't uncommon for black racists to call the opposition racist. I know - I'm probably the least racist guy you will ever talk to but I've been accused of being one. Because I split work evenly between blacks and whites and took considerable care that no one, whatever their color, got more than their share of the nasty jobs. No one except me, anyway - I took part in nearly all of them..
And you could take your own boat back to your heritage in the land of Hitler. But neither of us will - I will continue to argue against racism and bigotry in any form while you...you will continue to say that all whites are racists and responsible for the sins committed hundreds of years ago.
Racism is our DNA … never should have been born.
I don't think so Kathryn. I think it is taught. I don't know that it is necessarily intentionally taught.
Concerning All of the People, And Owning The Angy Mob
I do not know "all" of the white people living in the United States. In fact, I don't know "all" of the people of any race. Your comment is completely absurd, and is simply another gross fiction you have created in an attempt to demean my character. It appears that you either purposely pretend not to understand the English language, or you are having difficulty with reading comprehension. Otherwise, you would not be driven to make such bold and ridiculous accusations. Read,Learn, and Comprehend:
A nation is necessarily defined by the majority, not the minority. For instance, one could say that the United States is a predominantly black, or Muslim nation. But since whites are the majority, and Christianity is the dominant religion, such a statement could only be seen as a false statement This is quite elementary, but here is where it becomes interesting. When we consider either sexism, or an indifference to issues pertaining to women, the following statement is true: "A majority in the United States have always been either sexist, or indifferent to issues pertaining to women." Of this great truth there can be doubt.
If it were not true, then women would not have had to struggle for over 200 years to gain equal rights with men! And women would not still be fighting for equal pay, and making less than men for doing the same job, and the same amount of work. If a majority of men were not sexist, or indifferent, then equality among the sexes would exist in this society at the time of birth, and there would be no struggle for equal rights; a struggle that has now continued for nearly 250 years! Of course, Pollyanna and Billy Bob are going to do the politically correct thing and say that a majority of men in the United States have not always been sexist, or indifferent to womens issues. But this is easily proven to be false. As I stated, a nation is defined by the majority. Every man who has ever lived on this continent has had a mother. Many of them have also had sisters and wives. And so, we cannot suggest that a majority of men during the last 250 years have simply been "unaware" of womens issues.
I have often noted that a woman commonly makes good use of her ability to speak, to voice her opinion, and to express her anger and discontentment. And so, any apologist rhetoric you might deliver will remain flaccid, ineffective, and meaningless in light of the truth. I would never say that "all" men are sexist and indifferent to womens issues, as such a statement is demonstrably false. However, as I have proven, a majority of men in the United States are, and have always been sexist, and indifferent to womens issues.
Considering the problem of racism against blacks in a nation founded on white supremacy, the same holds true. If a majority of white Americans were not racist, or indifferent to the black struggle, then there would be no black struggle; today, yesterday, or tomorrow! This does not mean that "all" white people are racist or indifferent, but it certainly indicates that a majority have always been either one or the other. Argue as you may, the truth speaks for itself, and we are living with the truth today.
As far as your weak argument that the white majority living today did not create the problem: A racist, or indifferent white majority continues to perpetuate an oppressive racist system that has existed since the end of the antebellum. Perpetuating a system of oppression, a system that began with a crime against humanity, is no less of a criminal act than being an accessory after the fact to murder. In a court of law, such persons are held accountable, and punished accordingly. The racist will always attack the character of the righteous with hyperbole and fiction. But today, just like yesterday, I have destroyed all apologies, and racist fiction ... with the truth.
Here. Here is what the insanity has come to:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/federal- … arassment/
The EEOC has ruled that a cap with the "Don't Tread On Me" (revolutionary war motto) is "racial harassment" because the man that designed the motto kept slaves. This is the kind of crap I refer to when I speak of blacks only perceiving that they are denied the opportunity to succeed - the idiot that complained will never succeed at anything because he's too busy finding reason to whine that someone is discriminating against him!
Wilderness: O.K. That's one instance and one person. Are you going to apply that to the whole BLM movement? You don't know the person who complained. He could be the CEO of a company. But yet you call him an idiot. Flags are very powerful symbols of what people believe. Do you think that the confederate battle flag should still be flown? How about the idiots that wore white sheets and carried flags of the Christian Cross, while they torched peoples properties. I guess they were O.K. to you.
He IS an idiot. And so is the EEOC. Anyone that thinks a revolutionary war flag, directed at the British, is racist is an idiot.
That's the way it is. That symbol has exactly nothing to do with skin color and we all know it - the idiot that complained is looking for offense in order to promote his own racist views.
Think about this, here you have a movement that could be doing a lot of good, they could be bringing people together to solve a problem, instead we see the back door emails of MLB telling people to burn places to the ground, kill people, and basically act like criminals. This behavior will never solve anything. If the goal is to have equality, this certainly is not the way. This is the road of the ignorant. Is the problem racial profiling? I've been pulled over for a tail light its not a big deal if you don't have illegal drugs in the car or aren't wanted for a crime. Let me also say that because my name is so common, I was also pulled over because a cop thought I was a suspect they were looking for. I did what I was told, he checked my ID and let me go. No big deal. Do I think there are bad cops, of course their are bad cops. I don't think they are the majority, but to hear our media tell it, the cops are pulling an ok corral on every black person they see. This is irresponsible of the media, but its also irresponsible of the people who hear half a story and go on a crazed rampage killing people.
The problem is No one wants to admit they are the issue of race. We all are. The all only created on race, the human race. If we turn our attention, our focus from it and its issues, it would die. We all manifest racial hate everyday, by feeding it with our detailed attention to it. We as a race must turn our focus and let it begin to diminish.I support a conscious unification movement. We must unify as a race. One race.
Humming, it might work in theory; however, when racists kill people, you can't ignore it. There are other things done that can't be ignored. Rather than ignore it, we all should make a conscious efforts to not have the heart of racists.
The implicit social bias test tells people if they are bias. People who are not racist do not understand any of this. They look at the whole thing like people have gone crazy. Which they have. A reasonable person can look at this and think what the hell is wrong with people? Yet everyone else thinks they have to take a side. How about the side of, people need to stop acting crazy. When I was in college I had to take the Harvard implicit association test, I'm not afraid to bring this up because it showed no social bias. I had to write a paper about not having a social bias and it was boring. Other people in my class didn't fair so well. In all honestly I cant think of a race of people that makes me think "oh don't like them". Everyday I have people who are everything from Indian (non native) to Oriental coming into my store. Having studied their cultures is helpful, but they are all nice people. The link to the test is below, I challenge everyone to take several of those tests and see if in fact you are the leaning tower of racism. Because until you know yourself you cant begin to understand others.
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/
Your data suggest a moderate positive automatic attitude toward Women.
So am I a bad girl????
What we need is the threat of an extraterrestrial invasion....
Speak for yourself. We all "do not" manifest racial hatred. People who fight against racism are part of the solution, not the problem. To suggest that people who stand against racism are racist is no different than suggesting a man who stands against the sexual abuse of women is a rapist, or that an advocate for the homeless is the cause of homelessness.
Martin Luther King said "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it.He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it".
Racism in America has always had a color, and that color is white. Pope Nicholas V who sanctioned racism through the Catholic church in the 15th century was white. The majority of slave owners in the U.S.were white. A majority of the people lynching blacks during Jim Crow were white. The people who stole the entire continent and killed the native populations were white. The people who forced the native populations onto reservations were white. The primary terrorists on this continent since 1492 have been white Christians. The people who invented the "one drop rule" were white. The people who created segregated, "white only" restrooms, restaurants, and other public establishments were white. The business owners and corporations that primarily discriminate against minorities when hiring, have been, and continue to be predominantly white.
To suggest that black people, or any other minority have the capacity to be racist in a system of white supremacy is absurd. In order for racism to have any meaning, an individual must necessarily be a member of the majority. White families hold 90% of the national wealth, whereas blacks own 2.6% of the national wealth.Considering these percentages, it is not possible for a white person to feel the sting of racism, even if they are denied employment by a black employer because they are white. It is not possible because the majority of businesses are owned by whites, and so the odds of a white person encountering one racist black employer after another is slim to none. But when we consider the black man in America, just the opposite is true. Without the weight of systemic racism, the so-called "racism" of a minority individual directed at whites is about as "real" as having sex with a blow up doll!
You speak of unification. But that always means unification under a European flag, with a European language European customs, and a Eurocentric revisionist history. The fact that Columbus, who was a rapist, a murderer, a thief, and a pedophile is celebrated with a national holiday, is a prime example of "unification". No thanks.
It appears you entirely missed his point.
No, you are mistaken. I get the ridiculous point every time Pollyanna starts singing "We Are The World". Burying our head in the sand and hoping the problem will go away is beyond foolish, and takes us into the realm of insanity. I can't imagine a doctor telling a cancer patient: "Just ignore the brain tumor and it will most likely go away." Or how about one cop saying to the other cop" I realize they are robbing the bank, but if we make it a big deal, it will only encourage more bank robberies. If we just ignore them, instead of making an arrest, after a while people will stop robbing banks."
Isolating the difficulty helps us solve problems.
So, What is the Difficulty?
what is the difficulty??????
Then we can go forward.
Kathryn, that is the subject of great dispute.
1. People (all races) should have fewer babies out of wedlock. I do know several women who are raising children alone and doing an excellent job. HOWEVER
a. Children want a relationship with their fathers.
b. It is cheaper to have a mother and father in a house than a single parent.
c. Parents should not engage in illegal activity
d. Parents should spend time with their children and instill values in them through the age of 18 and beyond.
2. White people should not consider themselves smarter/better than Black people.
a. I was promoted to a position, with an BBA and MBA, with some resistance. The white secretary said, "They should have hired me for that job." With a 12th grade education, she considered herself more qualified than me.
3. Black people who have overcome obstacles and become educated, should mentor and encourage others to help them succeed.
4. Black people should not raise their children to hate white people.
5. White people should not raise their children to hate Black people.
6. Education should include slavery in history books. I can't remember any history book that showed the United States as being wrong. It should not have happened but it did. Tell what we learned from it and move on.
a. White people should not be so sensitive when they hear the word "slavery."
b. Black people should not be blame today's white people for what forefathers did.
This is a few thoughts. We've got to get real and not blame "them." (them being the other race)
I hear that the United States is the greatest nation in the world. How much greater will we be if we don't hate or discriminate.
His point wasn't that one ignore the problem but to be part of the solution.
wrenchBiscuit if that is your real name (joking). Everything you say is part of the problem. White people can be a minority in an area. Its not like we walk into a Latino neighborhood yelling "We run everything, stand back while I oppress you". I am MARRIED to a Native America man who has been mistaken for every race under the sun. No one ever thinks he is Native and he is ten times darker than my daughter in law who is half and half. TONS of people are in mixed race relationships They do not hate and oppress. You cant take the issues of a racist few and say "ALL these people are racist". Because I hear just as much racist BS coming from other people. ANYONE can be racist and the problem is that people like you refuse to see that. Racist is not about what race you are, its about hate. There is more of an attitude of oppression than actual oppression. Its how you attribute the outcome.
Example:
1. I got passed over for a promotion. Reasoning for being passed over: I'm a white girl and the office manager only promotes Latinos. Or I can be honest and know the other woman has been here longer and speaks Spanish which was a requirement.
You see that you can look at these things differently, and people who choose to excuse a lack of knowledge, skill, or experience in an outcome use the cop out that it was racial. In life not everyone gets a trophy, not everyone makes the team. People take the low road. It's frustrating to watch. It's even more frustrating to have someone say the words "white supremacy". We are not in South Africa. Take responsibility for your choices.
The interesting thing about racism in this country is that systems have been put in place to avoid it and we still have problems because people do not want to believe it. They use to give police officers and firefighters difficult tests prior to promotion, however because minorities sued the Chicago fire department saying basically that the test was too hard for them to advance, the entire test was changed to accommodate. I'm sorry but the the very heart of racial bias is believing someone is inferior based on race, why would you want them to alter a test? That is like saying "you are too stupid to pass so we made it easy for you". Its insulting, but instead of seeing it that way, now we have people in ranks they shouldn't be in because they couldn't pass the original test.. But please scream racism some more because, that is what will excuse all manner of horrific behaviors. Scream, inequality while you shoot a cop so that people listen and know that you are right. Your beliefs are the problem not the beliefs of millions of white people.
Let's take one thing at a time. Everyone seems to be in a hurry these days, and I can't understand why since we are all going to the same place. Your strawman may be quite convincing to some, but I have had a lot of practice. Please show me anywhere in this post, or anywhere else for that matter, where I claimed that all white people are racist. You are not the first to create and promote such a fiction, but so far no one can find the smoking gun. Maybe you can win the prize.
I think the difficulty is this: When a child is born, he absorbs, for the first six years, the environment he is born into. For instance, If he is born into the gang life-style, he will end up dressing in gang clothing, looking like trouble and expecting trouble. If a child is brought up with parents who are prejudiced, haughty and proud, he will absorb that attitude. If a child is raised in an environment where there is much poverty and a lack of food, he will not be able to go to school and may not even learn to read and write. If, however, education and school is available in the community, the child gets a good early education, he may later attend university and attain a career ... So attitudes, capabilities and awareness are really dependent on the early environment the child is raised in. How can we influence families in a direction of enlightenment?
Well that is the big question.
Widespread (Nation-wide) early education without oppression is the answer. And there is the new science.
You're welcome.
And this is exactly where about half of Americans have been raised , in the sub-cultures of a thug mentality , entitlement driven parenting , get it for free or we don't want to earn it , selfish needs , wants and desires .
And that's just the media .
Kathryn, I disagree that it is half. And that thug mentality is a product of the 70s and 80s when drugs spread across the land in poor communities and it became profitable to have more kids.
When I grew up in a Black neighborhood, we had no locks on the doors for 22 years. No one every broke in our house or stole anything from our open garage.
Actually these comments and questions in fact this whole thread is nothing but a race baiting agenda !
Let me know when a Real discussion of race issues comes to the forums , WITHOUT the agenda of baiting !
ahorse, it is a thread about discussing "race." This case seemed very interesting because it was called Zimmerman2. There was bitter divide over the Zimmerman case with many white people labeling him a thug. After Zimmerman, got off scott free with money, he showed how violent he is. I'm wondering if anyone would change their minds.
Concrete examples should aid discussion. What do you think we should be talking about? Not being sarcastic. I really would like to know.
This case surrounding this shooting is even more horrific than thezimmerman case, but it is early and I have heard that an arrest was made. Let us see what charges are levied against this shooter.
Defense attorney said wait until all of the evidence is in. He talked about how people formed opinions in prior cases without enough information.
Race baiting is just another snare. You are either for God or against Him. He is not concerned with 'color' so why should those who stand with God be?
I'm still trying to figure out what race baiting is. From the description, I would think it is trying to bait someone into a conversation about race. No one told me that. I've just heard the term a lot.
Race baiting is a huge part of these problems today . Race baiting is a twisted media and political game play to divert the attentions of the public to encourage looking in the other direction while political entities deny the causes and affects of their own incompetent involvement . Clinton is a race baiter for one , using it to gain a few more votes for her and against Trump .
Democrats have all but destroyed inner city minority neighborhoods for nearly a hundred years by controlling and addicting the populace to entitlement programs and misspending the billions of allocated funds for education , for crime control , for social justice and reforms !
Anyone who thinks the so-called "entitlement programs" have destroyed the inner cities is operating from a racist viewpoint. The simple truth is that a majority of poor people,regardless of race, would rather work for a living than to receive hand-outs. It is a racist myth that black people living in the inner city are lazy and lack motivation. The Easter bunny doesn't exist either.
I am a little unclear on "entitlement" programs. I looked it up and came up with a list from wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_pr … ted_States
I was surprised to see how many different things are listed and I don't know what many of them are for. Sorry guys! This is the teacher in me. I do believe we can have a more productive discussion with we know what is meant by entitlement programs.
To me, entitlement means you "deserve" or "earned" it.
If social security is entitlement, all of us who paid into it are entitled to it. Social security does not show on the entitlements budgeted...unless I overlooked it. HOWEVER, SSI/old age assistance is there. I know people who are disabled getting SSI. Example: my 31 year old niece who has temporal lobe damage and Turner's Syndrome among other problems. She fits the intended purpose. I see many, many lawyers advertising how they have success helping people. If you look at the judge shows, there are many people who have not worked and are on SSI. Often those situations are dicey. Judge Judy surely doesn't appreciate it.
I'm not sure how old age assistance works.
There is so much covered under entitlements, I can't speak of all of them at once. There are possibly programs that could be cut and sure most should be monitored better.
With respect to welfare, there is nothing wrong with getting temporary assistance. A woman should not have 4+ children with 2+ fathers and be on welfare. This is not true in every case. From teaching, I have seen this happen. The program should be monitored and women should be put on the path to work. Businesses can be given tax breaks (better than welfare) to train and employee people from the welfare list (welfare-to-work). I'm sure there is a lot of fat in the program but it should be dealt with. Numerically, there are more white people on welfare than Blacks. If businesses do not discriminate, the percentage of Blacks on welfare could go down.
There are other programs that I will look at and touch on as I get the opportunity.
You have already touched on a lot. There is a lot SSDI ab
use in Appalachia, West Virginia and Eastern Tennessee. Don't think that a great deal of blacks live there. It is irritating how conservatives paint this picture of Minorities abusing these programs, solely. When I was in Panama, we knew people (Americans)in nearby Equador that were using the SSD as a sole source of income, in a reduced cost of living area.
Where are the so called urban enterprise zones, providing businesses tax incentives and subsidies to hire folks from underserved areas?
Itis cheaper to keep certain people on welfare than to take the effort to insist upon work, removing all possible excuses for able bodied people not to work.
For example, while eligible welfare recipients are working in child care, the other recipient,
could be working having the normal cost of child care subsidized.
The fat and waste needs to be removed from all social services programs, but the abuse of which is not confined to Minority groups. There are larger percentages of Minorities on these programs, but they are more often poorer and eligible. But with so many Anglos on the program, I don't that anybody is in a position to talk or complain.
If I hear Donald Trump say, "African American Community" one more time. He sounds very condescending to me. I can't wait to hear what Tara Setamayer says about this.
I don't know if you went to the link or not but there are goo gobs of programs I didn't know are entitlements. You know when agencies go in to implement enterprise zones there is a lot of corruption.
I just got in from church and am hearing re-play of Trump I suppose. I've got to marinade on this. More tomorrow.
Tell us all exactly what black people in America want to be called if you will ?
There is one thing that all , especially conservative America is growing extremely tired of , That is the fact that Political Correctness rules the media , ALL of it . I have been in these forums for years and there is one thing I've grown really tired of , it's that each person seems to have a different idea of what to be called ! If "African American Community " offends you ,then tell us what we are supposed to use ...."Native American " , seems to be another one that offends everyone but those who use the term . For those of use who are all of a mixed DNA , the divisive use of such language itself is offensive .
We are ALL suppose to look beyond the physical features of our community members and yet . It would truly be amazing if that habit were reciprocal by all , especially today , especially given the volatile nature of todays media and political environment , In some communities there is a horrible habit of using one language in public and another in private , I have seen this in rural America and witnessed it in the urban areas I have lived in as well .
It seems to me that the immediate response by all too many is to be offended by ANYTHING of terminology being used , any term to describe anything or anybody . If you ask me EVERYONE will have to grow up ! AND ,Grow up a lot , especially younger generations ,
If you TRULY wanted a mature discussion of race , you might begin by dropping the divisiveness and P.C. language of being "offended " at every turn , and IF that matters to you and I then it applies to Trump as well .
My advice , Want to discuss " race in a productive manner " ?, Then act it .
ahorseback: I believe you are a white conservative racists. Now don't be offended. How do you like that? The reality is we are all of one race. It's called the human race. As humans we are wired to recognize differences in each other. It's in our DNA and we are all racists in that regard. I'm sure you have thought and called people of any difference one thing in your mind or with your friends and something else in public. We all do it. We all put labels on people by their race. It is not a matter of the labels or asking them what they want to be called. It is a matter of attitude. it is a matter of looking beyond the labels and looking beyond categorizing people into certain boxes. It is a matter of empathy. It is very simplistic to ask people what would you like to be called to be Politically Correct? Sure you are tired of it. Have you ever stopped to think how black people feel?
As you know there are good and bad in every race and in every group. There are good cops and there are bad cops. There are even cops that are racists. it is those racist cops that are what Black Lives Matter is a about. To deny that is to just look the other way.
One of the problems, the police have is the Use of Force Triangle that they have adopted from the military. If a person does not comply with the what the cop is asking, they can escalate the use of force up to it being lethal and/or do it immediately, if they feel or sense their lives or someone else's life is endangered. In some cases, it is justified. In others it is not. It is those cases where it is not justified, Black Lives Matter.
It's those cases where the officers are put on administrative leave and the case is turned over to a grand jury that takes months or years to reach a verdict and then the officers is found innocent. That's where Black Lives Matter. Law enforcement has the Fraternal Order of Police that have lawyers at their beckon call to adjudicate these cases and the officers in question are in almost every case are found innocent. That's where Black Lives Matter. Sure as WASPs say," all lives matter", but Black Lives Matter as well, especially to black people or what ever you want to call them to be Politically Correct. See I used the term WASP, White Anglo Saxon Protestant. I put all white people into a box.
I addressed the "African American community" last week. Is there a "white community"? What are the characteristics of a "community?"
Trump went to speak about the problems in Milwaukee and solicit support. He was not in Milwaukee. He was in West Bend, 90% white. Usually the audience is panned. I did not see one picture of the audience.
The subjects was the "crooks" and the "victims." The discussion was geared toward the whole African American community and not Milwaukee or even inner city areas where there are community/policing problems. He did rush to judgment and say that the police are always right. I agree that they are right in many instances and DEFINITELY write about Milwaukee last week.
I would prefer that he get a think tank of African Americans from all walks of life to give input on how problems should be addresssed. After all, we do have relatives in the inner city, victims, perpetrators and those who are fortunate enough to stay out of the fray.
Call me Black (from the 60s), African American, Colored (from the 50s), negro (from slavery) and I'm ok. I agree with you about what should we be called. I don't know who's driving the name game. White people are white people.
Thanks for the talking point ahorse!
"What are the characteristics of a "community?"
Typically a small group of people that represent that they are the voice and mind of a much larger group. If you spoke to 1,000 people (quite a large group), you were talking to 0.000024 of the black population - it's rather difficult to think that they actually represent much more than the 1,000 member group you spoke to.
But politicians - I doubt there has ever been a politician that didn't speak for the "American people". Somehow they all know that the "American People" (surely a "community") want exactly what the politician is promising. And whether they are talking in a TV debate or to a 100 person per plate dinner they are all talking to the "American People". Just empty political rhetoric, then.
"I would prefer that he get a think tank of African Americans from all walks of life to give input on how problems should be addresssed."
Why? Do you not think that a Hispanic person can have any insights? Do you not think that an oriental or white should have a say in what happens in the country? Do you truly think that some gang kid from the ghetto that dropped out of school in the 8th grade will have anything worthwhile to offer?
Better, I think, to simply take people familiar with the problems regardless of race, and people likely to be a part of solutions (business, maybe, and teachers and cops). Probably wise to include at least some blacks, but mostly as a sop to the racists that think every government committee has to have representatives of their particular race in order to "protect" themselves.
It has been my experience that the people that demand that only their race (or other group) produce answers to group problems are interested only in getting money and/or other concessions from other races. Not in putting forth any real group effort to solve problems. And they are perhaps the greatest racists of all, forever blaming someone else instead of working for change within their group.
It will take people of ALL races to provide solutions for racial problems in our country, not just one of them.
Media , Media and Media , all three of these causes are THE problem today . Inciting divide , fanning the flames of even slightly differing political ideology , racism , gender wars , you name it , Our most major hurdle to cross when it comes to our ideological differences in America is the war that is being fought between the media's profiteering , sensationalizing agenda and the reality of America's social construct which for the most part is perfectly normal .
I believe that , as usual , once this election is over , there will be a return to "normal" in our media , riots will chill down , the media will go back into it's hole into the sewers , younger voters who profess themselves as social activist's will mature , even slightly , while the political rhetoric , born of university teachings , goes quietly back to the drawing boards within the ivory towers .
Will the divide created by an uncaring administration heal ? I wonder .
An interracial couple was attacked after a self-proclaimed white supremacist saw them kissing outside a Washington restaurant, police said.
"The suspect spouted white supremacist sayings and made many many references to racist things," she said.
Rowe also complained about the Black Lives Matter movement, and had tattoos that said 'Skinhead' and 'White Power,' Wohl said.
The poor we will always have with uss and, unfortunately, the racists. I assume Rowe was the white supremacist. Do you have a website for that? Thank you!
“He begins talking about Donald Trump rallies and attacking people at the Black Lives Matter protest.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos … a8dc986923
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/20/us/ol … index.html
Well, I'm now hearing the possibility of Trump/Bannon/Ailes forming a network after the elections. That is quite scary. If this can happen from listening to a few speeches, imagine daily garbage spewed to insight attacks.
Interesting that the sensitivity to racism doesn't include the hypocrisy of racism from the left in politics . For instance , when Hillary runs to the side of the sinking boat and pleas to those of other races for votes because "........In everything I've ever done , I have always looked out for the interests of minorities ......................" and then does nothing except compile the votes . One who's had a 30 year history of doing nothing , heck .........for anyone but herself..
Is that racism too ?
No ? ........right !
One might have asked why democrats are and have been so so negative about the advancement of blacks in America , slavery , civil rights , affirmative action , economically captured inner cities of minority slums , Look at the history - no , Read History , you will see that democrats have stood at every juncture of possible advancements .
Look at the blockades of advancement of anything BUT a collective socialist tax grubbing nanny state directives , you will see democrat "leaders " at every roadblock.
Read your history !
It was LBJ who said he would have N****s voting Democrat for the next 200 years. Now, the Democrats take it for grated that they will have the black votes and so that don't have a reason to produce, and they haven't.
The first black members of the US House and Senate were Republicans. The first civil rights legislation came from Republicans. Democrats gave us the KKK, Jim Crow, lynchings, poll taxes, literacy tests, and failed policies like the “Great Society.”
Republican President Eisenhower ordered troops to enforce school desegregation. Republican Senator Everett Dirksen enabled the 1964 civil rights legislation to pass, in opposition to Democrat Senators Robert Byrd (KKK Grand Wizard) and Al Gore, Sr.
According to http://clashdaily.com/2014/03/allen-wes … 200-years/
Black history is American history. Its time we all fight for every last child in this country to have a better and brighter future, equally. Its time to come off the Democratic plantations and reservations.
LOL,, you know your point is questionable when you have to reach back almost 40 years for supporting evidence.
Forty years later we have more poverty, racism, and militarism. Barack Obama, our Black President of HOPE and CHANGE has not changed one dot or tittle, no revision. Or, have I missed something great? I feel betrayed and I'm not black...but I had some false-hope for about two years after he took office. Nothing changed for our Black American communities, except to spiral downward and sometimes out of control.
History repeats itself! Not funny.
The poverty rate is somewhat higher, but do you really believe racism is more prevalent than it was 40 years ago? And what do you even mean by militarism, what does it have to do with your original point, and how would you measure it to know that it has increased?
I await your clearly stated, legitimately sourced, fact-based response.
I just saw that leftists (edited) would support Obama giving African-Americans a 10% tax break. I don’t think giving one ethnicity a tax break would be a step in the right direction. It would create more division. But, I would be happy for those that it would actually help, I will rejoice with those who rejoice.
Tax breaks for blacks? Where did you see that, link please?
Mark Dice, likes to go out and ask people made up questions to get their reactions. Its really comical sometimes because he exposes how out of touch the average person on the streets are.
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNk4zhoG0ec
Perhaps, but this is not a reputable source. Who can accuse Obama of such a thing based on the musings of some rightwing crank?
So this crank talks to a few people on the street and edited whatever he did not like, of what significance is it?
PP, I posted the link here.
I don't care to in-gauge in petty bickering with anyone.
I love Ben Carson's common sense logic and honesty.
A youtube video of some random dude making a random assertion and asking random people questions about that assertion is not valid evidence. It is not data. It is not criteria for making an assertion that leftists would support a 10% tax cut for blacks only.
My Gawd, is this how you make your decisions about politics and for whom to vote? You and so many others? I'm sorry, but I can only laugh or I would be bawling my eyes out over the utter _______ of it all.
Edited to add: Discussing the validity of your assertions is not petty bickering. It's called getting down to the truth.
I see the humor in this. Dice does this kind of investigative polling on the streets all the time, its what he does. He really does reveal how out of touch the average person on the streets are, mostly leftists. Talk about low information dumb downed America.
Mark Dice on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/MarkDice
See: Liberals Fear Trump Will BAN TAMPONS if He Wins Election
Its funny!
LOL, that is not "investigative polling." Any doofus can go around asking stupid questions and edit a video to make people look as stupid as he is. The fact you are calling it "investigative polling" is what's funny.
I'll start by saying your cartoon was cute. But this is an open forum and PP has every right to state her opinions. You can choose not to respond but you can't demand she not post what she wants.
Identifying and detecting cyberstalking
CyberAngels has written about how to identify cyberstalking:
When identifying cyberstalking "in the field," and particularly when considering whether to report it to any kind of legal authority, the following features or combination of features can be considered to characterize a true stalking situation: malice, premeditation, repetition, distress, obsession, vendetta, no legitimate purpose, personally directed, disregarded warnings to stop, harassment and threats.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberstalking
I have clearly asked Pretty Panther to stop, and made it clear I do not want to talk to her because it is unfruitful. I am not going to be a victim wondering if it is safe to post in HubPages Forums without being harassed, threatened, or intimidated. I follow the rules, and only ask that others do the same, you know that. She disregarded my warning!
Harassing, threatening, or intimidating other Hubbers is against our Terms of Use. - HP
---------------
Out of respect for the OP, I am sorry about this, Diane.
Not a problem! I'll watch out for PP. I responded to something she wrote. I've got to read closely before I respond.
Diane, I am no stalker. See my latest post to colorfulone. I have been here for many years and have sparred with many people here. Most are adults about it; some are not able to handle it. That is how I see it.
Prettypanther, aka Sandy
You know I thought I have communicated with you on other forums and questions.
Geez guys! can't we all get along.
Diane, the "Panther" is a straight shooter. Anyone that expects to post material, needs to be aware in advance that it is going to be challenged as to its veracity and source. If you're not prepared to support the things you post nor be accountable for its content, you need to head to the Romper Room for that stimulating discourse.
With 191 followers, you have been around for a minute. I've read your info before. I don't think the Bison meatloaf was there. It looks good.
I think you have misinterpreted something. She is not stalking you. You guys are posting on the same site. In the same threads. She will read your comments, that's natural. And she will respond. That is natural also.
You have the right to ignore her comments. Wouldn't that be the easiest solution?
Defend the offender if you must! I have not "misinterpreted" anything, not with the accumulative effect that has occurred. Fact is I have reported her to HP several times for repeatedly targeting me, its on record. She has even been down right foul on occasion. Cyberstalking is a criminal offense, and I am done being a victim of it on HubPages, and I don't want anyone else to have to endure it here. It has to stop.
You aren't being stalked. I would think a big clue to that fact might be that Hub Pages hasn't done anything even though you have repeatedly pointed out that you consider yourself to have been stalked.
No one is going to be able to post in a political forum without getting feedback. Some of it quite negative. That does not constitute stalking. I'm actually quite surprised, considering the frequency of your comments, that more aren't calling you on your statements. They can be quite outlandish.
I pointed out one time to HP about the stalking, because of her own threatening words to stalk and harass me. That's when I ask her to stop. Now, again and took it a step further, with a hopeful heart it ends.
When something sounds bizarre or unfamiliar to me, I do some research instead of have a knee-jerk reaction. We are living in an age of science fiction growing humanoids inside of cows. I suppose that does sound outlandish. There isn't any justification to personally attack the messenger according to the rules if you don't like the message.
I love feedback but it needs to be civil and make a discussion better for everyone. Including me, because my concerns are valid.
Colorfulone,
I have been on these forums for over 6 years, twice as long as you have. I have developed relationships with many people here. I am no stalker. If I were stalking you, you would see me commenting on your hubs and doing much more than just pointing out errors in your forum posts. I have only communicated with you here on these forums; that is all. I must be the worst cyberstalker ever.
If you have reported me to Hubpages multiple times, then they must not be too worried about me as I have received no communications at all from anyone regarding you. Could it be that you are imagining persecution, just because I am not letting you get away with your absurd and unfounded statements?
Obviously, you are not equipped to handle the challenges of a true debate board, where if you post something inaccurate, you can expect to be called on it. If you repeatedly post inaccurate statements, even after having been informed of the illegitimacy of your sources, then you can expect to be repeatedly challenged. That is how a debate board works.
You are allowed to ask me not to respond to your posts. I can choose whether or not to agree to it. For the record, I never did see your post from a couple of weeks ago asking me to not post to you. If I had, I would have responded then. I often go up to a week at a time without visiting the forums, and sometimes miss replies to my days-old posts (unlike a real cyberstalker, who would be sure to see and follow everything you do.)
Anyway, to conclude. If you are that fragile, I will back off correcting you. That does not mean I will never respond to you again. I will not promise that. It is my right to post here just as it is yours. My advice to you is to grow a backbone, and be prepared to answer when people point out your errors. Quilligrapher also recently challenged your nonsense and you accused him of being petty (or something like that. I might not have the exact word you used). So has jonnycomelately and GA Anderson. Your childish inability to defend your positions has been noted.
Carry on with your nonsense, but be prepared to deal with another poster who challenges you, as it will happen.
Sincerely,
Prettypanther, aka Sandy
That's ridiculous, colorfulone. I haven't even come close to challenging you once per day. You seem to think you can post willy-nilly on the forums without ever having to back up your nonsense. Well, it doesn't work that way. If you don't want to be challenged, I'm sure you can find plenty of right-wing sites where you can post your youtube videos and infowars conspiracy theories and get nothing but high-fives and and attagirls. This isn't the right-wing bubble, so get over it or stop posting.
Typical non-answer from you. And no source for your assertion, which I am 99% certain is fabricated, either by you or some similarly fact-challenged "news" source.
because some are too emotional and can't handle it.
I can't handle it cause I am so weary of it---I'm white
the issue has been pervasive my entire life so I'm just tired of it---was tired of it long ago
most people can talk about it
Diane , The only way any neighborhood can be reclaimed to order IS from within . I remember well back in the 1960's a couple of instances where my own mother did exactly the same thing . What clown wants to be dissed by his own momma in front of his buddies ? None , maybe .....just maybe it could work !
ahorse, Thank you! It is good when people can meet on common ground. This is but one component of what it takes to turn the inner cities around.
1. Gentrification - is viewed by many as a bad idea. I think it should be used to improve the community. The tax base will go up providing more money for the community.
2. Elderly people should not lose their homes if they are able to stay there. Their taxes should not be raised.
3. Community-based policing - The police officers should be involved, and possibly live, in the community. That should alleviate some of the distrust. Officers will get to know community by familiarity and, hopefully, by name.
4. Large businesses that provide needed resources (grocery store, drug store, clothing, etc.) should have anchor stores in the community and employ community members.
One of my friends argues, "They will run the small businesses out." I looked around and said, "WHAT small businesses?"
Slavery ended over a century and a half ago. How many of you have met an African American slave? NONE!!!
I suppose in some ways, I may be spoiled. I was born in Oakland, CA in 1960, and raised there. I have had very little experience with racism, and most of what I've dealt with was based on people simply not knowing any better. Ignorance is easily dealt with - just simply give them knowledge. Some of my experiences have actually been funny. Never have I encountered "White" and "Colored" segregation - most likely, because I have never visited the South, except for a brief subway stop in Richmond, VA from Washington, DC.
What I have dealt with was a constant barrage of black-on-black crime. That is why I tore out of Oakland like a bat out of hell soon as I turned 18. Since that time, things have gotten much worse. This, in my opinion, is the truly sensitive subject. You hear a lot nowadays about white cops shooting unarmed black men, but the vast majority of the time, when a black man is murdered, it is done by another black man.
I have recently stumbled across this site:
https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1095599/
Stormfront is a white supremacist site run by a criminal, but it is important for blacks to know what is being said about them. This is the REAL issue we need to be dealing with - NOT something that ended well over a century ago!
P.S. Regarding reparations - that needs to be VERY carefully considered! Rodney King blew $3.7 million - obviously, that was no help to his daughters!
Say yes, that is one of many scary sites. It does validate the point that RACISM does exist. Many can say "I'm not a racist" and they well may not be but racism is alive in the USA.
That is my problem about saying "African American community." It's a tendency to say "all" or "non." It usually leads to stereotyping.
This is the first time I'm seen you post. Please continue! Thank you!
Strange coincidence, Yoleen, I was born in Oakland and lived for 3 years on the Big Island, are you near Kona or Hilo? How have things been since Madame Pele has had a fit?
Yes, it is a strange coincidence! I live in Hilo. We get occasional vog, but for the most part, Madame Pele hasn't changed things. We just have to take a different route to view her.
Good to hear, we lived in Pahoa, the place where all the aged hippies, from the 'Summer of Love' in San Francisco were all over. Our favorite place was "Ken's Pancake House" in Hilo. It really improved itself over the years we were there. The routine shopping included, the sole Walmart and the relatively new Target store, next door.
While I don't miss the horrendous cost of living. There is a spiritual aura about the place that is lacking here, in Central Florida, I miss that. That might explain why I have always had no issues with crime in the area.
Yes, the people are very mellow here. I understand they also know how to deal with invading gangsters. There was an infiltration about 20 years ago, and they put an immediate halt to it.
From what I've heard about Florida, I don't envy you living there!
They were here 20 years ago. They didn't last long; the community rallied around, educated the kids about the realities of joining a gang, and the gangsters who were not arrested and deported "disappeared".
I tried to find the original post. I assume gangsters was a specific gang.
There were several. I don't know their names, but they engaged in turf wars. Hawaiians DEFINITELY don't need that element here, and I back them FULLY!!!
There were never many African-americans on the Big Island of Hawaii, as I understand it. So, I don't know where the invader gang bangers came from? Salt Lake had a gang problem for a while, but most of those participants were Vietnamese!!
Say yes, I didn't know what a Samoan was for a long time. A lady I worked with said, "Samoans are really big. I'm more afraid of them than Black people." I was taken back but didn't get mad.
When I started teaching in San Bernardino, I started having Samoan students. They were some of the most talented students I ever had. I never met one who couldn't sing. The dancing!!! They asked me to be advisor for the Polynesian Club. My classroom was the place to be after school. Every Polynesian kid would hang out in my room with other kids. When new Polynesian kids came to campus they knew to look me up.
There were racial problems on campus sometimes. The Poynesian kids and Black kids would support each other in fighting against Mexican students. That was very frightening. I don't know if there is any racial tension in Hawaii but, for some reason, the Polynesian kids blend in with the Black kids here.
Strange coincidence, I had a substitute teachers credential issued from San Bernadino County in 1981. You ever hear of Beaumont or Banning, California?
Our church has a location in Beaumont. It is about 40 miles away from our church in Rialto. I have friends in Banning. I'm in Fontana, next to Ontario.
I have a series of articles that speaks about life in Hawaii. Much of my first impressions as to how the races interacted is in the 4thinstallment of that series. The "big island" of Hawaii was one of the few places Ihave lived where beinga person of color did not automatically come with expectations of disadvantage. The population of Tongans, Samoans, Chinese, Phillipinos and local Hawaiians along with others makes drawing lines and distinctions difficult. I think the Hawaiian word for Blacks was popono? We were generally liked and respected as a group.
You did not sound like someone who lived in California. I lived in Riverside and San Bernadino Counties from 1976-1981. I was assigned to my first station duty station, March AFB as a very young Second Lieutenant. If you followed the old Beetle Bailey comics, I was known as Lt. Flap. I moved to Beaumont from Riverside to get above the smog which was awful then. Small world, isn't it?
Small world? How true! I moved to Inglewood in1973. I had no idea I would be in California this long. I'm going to read your articles on Hawaii. I want to plan a trip there.
I guess you were here before all of the casinos. The tribes are very generous to the schools. they are major employment sources these days. I'll never go to Vegas again. It is too long of a ride.
Just popping in to say I am learning a lot from reading responses here, particularly from the credence/diane exchange but also from others. Thank you for taking the time to go into such depth.
All of this talk about white people stealing land here in America. I'd love to see a world map of how it would be if every person since 1492 had just stayed in their country of origin without sending out any expeditions, armies or settlers. We should probably also tack on a prohibition of sharing technology and medical breakthroughs. Wouldn't want to be accused of helping. Helping could be construed as a hindrance. Although that would remove peanut butter from the American table. That would be sad.
I do believe, all in all, the great American experiment in freedom has been beneficial to society.
We would likely be worshiping Quetzalcoatl, the Aztec god of civilization. Although far behind that of Europe, the technology of the Aztecs was considerably more advanced than anything in North America, and the Aztecs were a warrior people, conquering their neighbors just as they would eventually fall to Cortez and the Europeans.
It's interesting to speculate just why the North American natives never developed beyond a stone age civilization. Because the environment/climate was too harsh, requiring too much effort to just survive? Too easy, providing no incentive to advance? Was the land mass too large, allowing tribes to simply move away from neighbors rather than competing with them (the Aztecs, for instance, had only a relatively narrow strip to live on, as did the Incans)?
Whatever the reason, though, it seems inevitable that North American peoples would fall to better technology, whether from South America, Europe or even the far east. A civilization that far behind the rest of the world cannot survive.
I don't see a problem with a person choosing to be an indentured servant. That is an agreement between two people.
It is my understanding that when Europeans first came, the Native Americans welcomed them with open arms. There should have been some discussion on how to make America great for all people without any group being disenfranchised or taken advantage of.
Well, sure. That was certainly the way of the world back then. All peoples just showed up, en masse, in other countries and said 'hey, let's all just share the space'.
Live to Learn: I wrote a hub on Why Wars are waged?. I have been told it was for economic reasons, but after doing research and analysis, I found the root cause is to either protect the territory, you already have and/or to gain new territory, in the name of some higher spirit, and to spread the gene pool. The rest of what you just said, is the fall out from those three factors. I know we are not supposed to promote our own hubs, but in this case I think it warranted. Here is the link.
http://hubpages.com/politics/The-Three- … -are-Waged
Then I have either misunderstood your argument or you need to adjust it. You stated that native Americans didn't own land. You then stated that prior to the arrival of the Europeans the native Americans waged war with one another. Now you are stating that people wage war to 'protect the territory, you already have and/or to gain new territory, in the name of some higher spirit, and to spread the gene pool.'
So, you are basically saying that wars were already being waged on North American soil for the same reasons the settlers waged war. Out of curiosity how is it acceptable for some nations to wage war for particular reasons and not for other nations? Or, is it just that the one who wages the most successful war is somehow guilty? If the Sioux took land from the Comanche is that more morally acceptable than the white settlers doing the same? If so, why? Just because they started from a location further removed from the area?
Before the settlers came to North America, slavery already existed among the different native tribes.
Among some, yes. That doesn't in any way negate the horror that the blacks went through during that period of American history. I suppose the fact that we had a written language and documented the atrocities makes it different to some. The fact that blacks sold blacks into slavery on the African continent doesn't negate the horror. There is enough blame to go around but it appears it is so much easier to just blame white folks for all of the ills of the world during our past. Kind of like blaming current Christians for the wrongs committed in the name of religion over the years.
I find it mind boggling that people who are well educated, probably have good jobs and live in decent communities still want to cry victim and make racist statements about white people but can't see how racist their comments are. It makes it difficult to find reason to attempt to understand another point of view. If anyone expressed views about any other race like they are expressed about white people in our society they would be immediately labeled racist but white people are expected to just sit and take it or they are labeled racist for pointing out the hypocrisy.
The globalist social engineers are obsessed with creating false memes, false trends, that they control to create a population of trendies from those false trends that don't have their own destiny, who don't a have a basic organic human genetic drive to build something that is satisfying.
They want to over throw the West. That's whites and Christians basically. They that are of the world are not of God, Satan is the god of this world. They hate Jesus, and anyone who is of God. Yes, Christians, (whites any color) are being persecuted, but we were foretold of it.
Exciting times we are in.
"He who controls the trend, controls the future. He who controls the future, controls the destiny of humanity." If you understand this paradigm you understand the rest.
Not sure I can go so far as to agree with all of that.
I think association of white people with slavery here in the US is because that is how most Africans got to the United States.
Cries of racism
When I asked about why people would be upset with Michelle Obama it was because I saw no racism in what she said. It was a reason to rejoice and be hopeful.
The calamity for educated Black people is the apparent taboo to mention slavery in any sense. When doing family research, it takes us to slavery. Without a lot of time-consuming research, we can't get passed slavery. At the point of dna testing, we find that many, many of our ancestors are white.
I can understand not wanting people to ask you to apologize or hold you responsible for what happened. At the same time, I don't understand why any mention of slavery whatsoever is considered race baiting.
I've never implied that conversations on slavery is race baiting. It is a part of our history that we should explore. We should never pretend that it didn't happen. However, when I have a person of color flat out say that 'white folk' can't be expected to understand that, to me, is racist also. White folk, as that is put lumps all people of a certain skin tone into one neat category to lay blame on for past sins. I hate to say this but many, many of the white skinned people in this country can't trace their ancestry on this continent back but so far. But, hey. They are white so are somehow to blame for all perceived injustices by some. I don't have any problem with blacks choosing to identify as a skin tone. That is freedom of choice. But, I don't identify as 'white'. It, in my opinion, is ignorant. I'm not really white. Except for maybe my legs. I didn't get a chance to get to the beach this year.
Edit. Thought i would add one thought. We should study our history but sometimes this conversation seems to be bogged down in it. History serves a valuable function but we can't make a better future if we can't let go of the past. I don't know anything about my ancestors 150 years ago and back. I honestly don't care. It's in the past.
I hope I didn't say you per se. If I did, I made the very mistake I try so hard to not make. I don't think a group should be painted with a broad brush.
My question about race baiting was because the good old boy on Fox (forgot his name) and others were on social media and in news media complaining about the race baiting. I was asking the question for someone/anyone to explain it to me. It kind of reminds me of the bigot thing between Trump and HRC. Trump has made up his on definition for bigot.
It's complicated. We know it. We are responsible, individually, to process information and attribute it to the right source(s). There is no legitimacy or validity when we say "all" or "none" when it is really "some."
I apologize also. I wondered why the question but thought it must have come from my getting snippy with another hubber for what I considered to be a racist statement. I don't watch Fox so I'm not certain I can answer the question.
Live to learn: Did you even read my hub?
Are you unwilling to answer the questions?
You should not do something wrong because someone else does. Remember, don't follow the crowd!
We are hundreds of years removed. That was the way of the world then. I don't know that anyone did anything 'wrong' anymore than 'right' for the level of civilization at the time.
We can all look at it and say we wouldn't do it. Now. Now is not then.
It would be great if we all would not do it now. There are people that would. NOT YOU!!!
Have you experienced trolls on online articles? Some have racist monikers (step n fetchit, some symbol generally associated with black people) and they post really racist, terroristic, and scary comments.
The article could be about a birthday party. Then the troll makes a comment about how Obama caused it or use vernacular which is supposed to sound like it is a Black person talking. Leslie Jones has been harrassed so much on Twitter that the president has made rules to disallow participation. There is an Alt Right guy that posts to Breibart often who has been banished from the site forever!!!
What makes people so cruel and mean-spirited? I don't know. They bully, bully, bully.
I've always been of the opinion that the really, really obnoxious trolls are acting the part of the type of person they don't like. Like the ultra conservative Christians aren't really that but they are atheist liberals and vice versa. I don't, personally, believe that anyone is that radical and mean.
Although, there was a time I thought it might be possible that cyberspace had gotten entangled with Hilbert space and we were somehow talking to people in alternate universes.
Come on man!!! You see ISIS cutting people's heads off live. I saw that pilot being burned inside that cage.
It would be wonderful if we all had a similar line over which we would not cross but that is not true. I know you wouldn't kill someone and start eating the person's face. It's in the news now that a college student did that.
Drug kingpins send drugs into communities to be sold to children. There are human traffickers that sell children.
There are people that do horrible things in this world.
There have always been terrible people doing terrible things. The difference is we now have the ability to see and hear in greater depth and, of course, they have more horrible tools.
The main problem when we talk about race is that people have trouble distinguishing the concept of culture from race. It is as though in order to be a valid member of your ethnicity, (any ethnicity) you are beholden to cling to the things that define that culture.
And what is culture? It is a set of beliefs which dictate how we dress, how we talk, the kinds of food we eat, and sometimes the music we listen to. All of these values that are held by minorities in any given country are meaningless to the main culture. Which is why the most successful people in society with a minority background are those who assimilate themselves into the main culture.
I'm not just talking about blacks, or Asians, or Mexicans. White people have subcultures within themselves as well and they make a conscious decision to stand out in some of the worst ways. Consider all the white kids with face tattoos, stretched out ear lobes, etc. Employers, law enforcement, and the rest of society are all thinking the same thing, this person makes bad decisions. I'm part German, I think it would look pretty ridiculous if I were going to work wearing lederhosen. Just like it would be strange to see a guy walking around in a kilt, or a kosovorotka.
These things are of such little value to the main culture it is akin to making a conscious choice to be poor. So if a Mexican guy in America decides to open a shop that sells sombreros he has a very limited customer base and will most likely end up going under. On the other hand if he decides to sell blue genes, his earning potential is only limited to the 320 million Americans, (every man, woman, and child) in this country who likes to wear them.
So now what happens when minorities decide to cling together and willfully segregate themselves?
We get poverty, gangs, and crime.Why? Because they have chosen to put all kinds of limits to their potential. There is less networking, and there is more complaining. All of these places where minorities choose to congregate have names; the ghetto, the hood, the reservation. I work with Blacks, Asians, Latinos, and Natives, and they are successful people, but only when they choose to leave the victim narrative behind and focus on doing their best.
The truth is that your race is nothing more than the color of your skin and that's all it should be. This country's motto is E pluribus unum (out of many one). That is what we need to be, that is what our children need in order to be the most successful. If you choose the opposite which is multiculturalism you choose to be poor. If you choose to hold to the victim status, you will get exactly what you are looking for.
A+.............................................there are FAR TOO MANY VICTIMS & NEGATERS today in America. Thank you Onusonus for your synopsis.
Your comments: most commendable Onusorus. But, as a alternative to multiculturalism, you offer( 'E Pluribus 'unum'). Who and what is the nature and characteristics of the 'unum'?
It means many people from different backgrounds come to this country to assimilate into this culture. America is one of the few countries in the world where if you become a citizen you are considered an American that same day. Such is not the case in most of the world. You will never be considered Japanese, or Mexican if you move to one of those countries.
The situation is that what is defined as 'this culture' is variable and changes with the passage of time and with the infusion of ever diverse groups of people.
That's the beauty and the problem. I know the description of our society used to be melting pot. Now, the politically correct ideal appears to be salad bowl. That, to me, is dangerous because of the desire for people to be classified as victims so they can lobby for entitlements. I prefer to think of us as a stew. Different origins, histories and different lives prior to choosing to form a union but all agreeing to the same seasoning (our laws and ideals for freedom) so we slowly become a more diverse, yet unified, society.
Because the US is a multicultural country. There is no "this culture". That's what some people don't understand. Not even between "whites"there is "this culture". German descendants, Irish descendants, etc. have their own food, traditions, customs and values. Many also keep their language.
What about Jews?
Asians, Latinos, Africans, Middle Easterners, etc. in the US are not homogeneous groups, each have their own culture, yet they are as american as "whites". Even if they don't speak english.
That to these days, assimilation is considered by many the only way to success in a multicultural country only shows what kind of society the US have...
Maybe, this might have something to do with that concept of 'real Americans' that Conservatives are always talking about. Who are they suppose to represent?
You are wrong about multiculturalism. But by all means if you think it will serve you better to live in America without having to speak English, I say open a business, don't speak any English to your customers, and see how good you can do.
On the plus side, once your business goes under you will get to complain about discrimination and you get to claim your victim status. You'll be broke, but at least you'll feel all warm inside about it.
I'll tell you though, you can live pretty well in Miami and not have ENGLISH as your primary language. But, it is one of the few places where that is true.
NYC, Los Angeles, etc. And that's just Spanish. There are many communities where people speak their language, have their business and are successful.
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, in 2014 there were more than 20 million children under 5 years old living in the U.S., and 50.2 percent of them were minorities.
"More than half of the nation's children are expected to be part of a minority race or ethnic group," by 2020, the U.S. Census Bureau reports, referring to all kids under the age of 18.
The minority population is expected to rise to 56 percent of the total population in 2044. When that happens, "no group will have a majority share of the total and the United States will become a 'plurality' [nation] of racial and ethnic groups," the U.S. Census states.
I guess assimilation will be happening, right?
I've been thinking about the terms "minority" and "majority" and whether or not there will be a shift in terminology. "majority minoirty" and "minority majority" are oxymorons.
The point that you make is that the days of people unable to speak English being consigned to a 'taco truck' economy is over. There are places in Miami, where you can't get a job in mainstream industries if you are conversational in Spanish.
IslandBites: Kudos to you. I couldn't have said it better, being first generations Italians. Yes, our parents assimilated in this country, but kept many traditions of Italy, that I'm very proud of. The difference is my parents came here by choice. They were not packed into slave ships, so they had no heritage or traditions to fall back on. Their lineage and history started the minute they were sold into indentured servitude in the country and the people they were to serve.
I'm looking for Onisurus' original post.
Your apology for racism and evil is creative but hardly realistic. First of all, a majority of the minority are not gang bangers, and most of the black people I knew growing up did not live in the ghetto but were successful farmers. Secondly, I know many minority people who do not accept Colonialism, who embrace their own culture, and who have money in their pockets. Haven't you ever heard of "Two Faces"? The arrogance of many white men has blinded them to the fact that we also know how to play that game. Many of my brothers play the role in public. Of course they do. Just as many intelligent African slaves played the role of the ignorant Negro during the antebellum. It was simply to their advantage to give the evil white man the image he was looking for, and expected.
I have been a successful professional musician for most of my adult life and my understanding of the victimization of my people has only empowered me, and it has only made my life better. I live with my eyes wide open. This way I can better avoid stepping in the excrement of Colonialism that is strewn about like land mines. And it is the excrement that can get inside the minds of young African and Indigenous children, erase their true identity, and make them faceless Americans; black and brown on the outside, and all white on the inside. Your argument against multiculturalism is laughable since the trend will continue to move in that direction. Trust and believe, there are many of us who have devoted our lives to making sure of that. Furthermore, many white people are also starting to wake up to the evil of America, and the evil of materialism and capitalism. But your commentary reveals that these are things you admire and consider to be of great worth. And this is just one more reason I find the Christian Bible to be a most interesting piece of work.
In Matthew 6:24 Jesus said: "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon".
It also is written to " Love thy neighbor as thyself". Many cannot reconcile these two ideas, and many see them as contradictions. But they are not contradictory at all. And this should be easy to understand for anyone who has ever had children. When a parent sternly corrects a child they do not do so out of hate, but out of love for the child. And it is their responsibility as a parent to set the child's foot on solid ground, so that the child may avoid the many pitfalls ahead of them. Furthermore, it would be ridiculous to suggest that the concept of "loving thy neighbor" extends to turning a blind eye to your neighbor evil works. It has often been said that you must love the man and hate the evil. Just as with a child, when you chastise and correct your evil neighbor, you are not necessarily doing so out of hate, but it is only out of of love. For if you truly hated your neighbor, you would not seek to correct him, nor to reason with him at all. You would not seek to set his foot on solid ground, but you would simply exterminate him, as you would a common household pest; as the Colonialist squatters exterminated over 100 million of my people.
Many will champion all things European because they feel that is the way to go, because that is where the money is. But that is only a symptom of the sickness that will soon destroy America, and possibly the entire human race. For along with the money, the greed, and the addiction to materialism, comes a very high price. And the cost is measured in the blood of young American soldiers, in the blood of non-combatants throughout the Middle East, in the blood of Syrian children, and in the many tragedies born of corporate and political greed; from the evil of Philip Morris,Henry Ford, and Monsanto, to the evil of Love Canal, the Kalamazoo River, and Flint Michigan. You speak of getting ahead, but the love of money and the continued glorification of evil is only getting the American people positioned squarely behind the 8 ball.
If you truly want what's best for your families you'll do best to dump the multiculturalism mantra of victimology and focus on being successful in your job and raising productive law abiding children.
The alternative is to pump into their minds that every obstacle they face is from some shadowy, nameless, faceless group who is out to get them simply because of the color of their skin. They will never succeed with that kind of mentality.
If you think I'm wrong then prove me wrong and move to an all black neighborhood and come back and tell me about how much your life has improved. Tell me about the better education they have, the better jobs, the lower crime rate, and the increase of opportunities available for your family outside of mainstream America.
I just read two of your articles and followed you. I like your thought processes.
I'm glad to see your suggestion here. I won't go through the "make lemonade" thing. I appreciate the struggles of my ancestors and cannot imagine the pain and humiliation they went through. I'm sure their philosophy down through the years has been to "make something of yourself and have a better life."
My sister is miserable about a family "secret" that makes it clear that she is hurt or hates my parents. She also hates me! I wasn't even born when history was made. She lives in a senior citizens home and has no real friends. We have lots of family whom she has alienated. When she calls me I am welcoming but refuse to play the role I did when we were growing up. Her jealousy feeds her resentment of me. I have never lost a friend, communicate well with my family of more 200+, had a good career, and am financially ok. I love her and am willing to draw her close if she drops her schemes. Hatred makes you destroy yourself while everyone else thrives.
I am always glad to see when a person can overcome adversity in their pursuits. I think that there is simply too many teachers in the schools that are telling the kids they are victims. These kids end up in the work place and as soon as something doesn't go their way it just must be about some form of discrimination. Because I'm a woman, I'm a minority, I'm a homosexual, my religion, my hair color, etc. I hear it all the time with new kids at my job, and they are unwilling to except any kind of rejection as a learning experience. Rather there was some injustice that occurred against them.
I'm sorry to hear that stuff about your sister, I've seen the same kinds of issues in my family as well and it's never easy to deal with.
I changed careers because I was tired of hearing kids talk about being victims. James Brown wrote a song, "I don't want nobody giving me nothing! Open up the Door! I'll get it myself!"
I would tell students, "Get qualified and then apply for the job. If you don't get it, then seek recourse." Students come to school sagging, with Ipods in ear, texting, speaking the vernacular of their youth, etc. When the jobs are posted, they should already be qualified. By the time they get qualified, the job is gone.
I'm working with my great nephew right now. He was raised to be respectful and to wear his clothes properly. But he just graduated high school and turned 18. His mom wants him to stop playing video games and pay bills. I'm praying, investing, and trusting that he will graduate college and move beyond this phase.
I hate the victim mentality too.
I do not think that multicultural is necessarily synonymous with advocating for victim hood.
Multiculturalism certainly leads to a victim-hood mentality, and it is largely due to the fact that those people are willfully segregating themselves from the main culture. And the main culture has no plausible use for it. Subcultures will always be oppressed by the main culture in any given situation. That is culture, not race.
Yeah, how about pulling your pants up!!!
I grew up with all kinds of fads in the day, but each preceding generation criticizes the fads of the next, such is the tapestry of life.
IN truth , in order to stop focusing on race or color or our differences , we have to start thinking of our similarities because they are far, far more than the opposite . The first sense to align itself when we meet is the sense of sight , The word racist first of all should be banned from our vocabulary . And as I have stated before , It almost was a forgotten term !
When we meet ,we first should look to the habits of all peoples that are like our own , do we act out of kindness ? Do we share what we have and what we are ? Is opening a door for someone more important than visiting upon how different we are ? Do we smile with a direct meeting of the eye's ? Maybe its always been a part of human nature but I believe that our most unkind acts as people have been to pre- judge , obviously .
However , we cannot go into the crowded room of life with an attitude , with an expectation born of any personal selfishness , My biggest piece of advice for all is to open the mind , keep it open and just when you think , Okay ," I've had about all I can stand ," Open the mind just a little further !
Problem is today , minds , like hearts are closing down - or they never truly began to open anyways !
Ahorse, that is excellent advice for those of us who interact on a daily basis. It would be amazing if we could all respect and appreciate each other. At this point in my life, it doesn't even matter if someone I meet is a racist. I know who I am and that I have accomplished a lot in life, against all odds.
Our challenge is to educate, encourage and provide opportunities that are not within our daily circles. If they succeed and continue a spiral up then poverty and crime are less. Some people are where they are by choice but they still need the opportunity to do better. The children that did not have a choice need to be encouraged, mentored and helped to stop the spiral down.
It is in our best interest for everyone to do well.
As I have been learning the truth more and more people are realizing slavery was an issue . Now with the truth about history and the constitution all are enslaved because of the corporations and the two US Constitution which was not made for any people. I believe the first lady made that statement to say she may be able to help in the issues but that there is history of the men who built the white house . No matter what slaves built which showed intelligence .
Slavery gives you the best lesson for your bright future.
Amerigo Vespucci was from a wealthy Italian family. He was a navigator and adventurer who was one of the first to recognize and popularize the notion that the New World was actually two separate continents. Even unto his death, the miscreant Columbus believed that he had arrived in Asia, and was not aware that he had stumbled upon an entirely different continent. A German mapmaker by the name of Martin Waldseemuller who had read Vespucci's letters printed a wood block map of the New World. Waldseemuller printed the name "America" across the southern continent in honor of Vespucci. He sold many copies of the map, and this is how the name became popular. And so, America was actually named by one of my German ancestors. But I am not impressed, and I am certain that the name will eventually be changed to something more suitable, and Indigenous. Milwaukee, Cemanuhauc, Turtle Island, or wrenchBiscuit, are all preferable names.
Columbus's first trip brought him to the islands south and east of what is now the United States.
He was sure he had arrived at the islands in Asia called the Indies. This is why he named the people he found "Indians."
There is no proof he was the instigator of the brutish actions of his men. Even these reports could have been fabricated / exaggerated, or politically motivated.
This report was written long after Columbus had died, (aged 55 on May 20th, 1506.)
Bartolomé de las Casas
A SHORT ACCOUNT OF THE DESTRUCTION OF THE INDIES
written 1542, published 1552.
" … but he actually never sailed to North America. In fact, he wasn’t even the first European to come to the Americas. Many historians suspect that Viking Leif Erickson, who established a settlement in northeastern Canada in the 11th century, was the first European to come to the Americas."
"Upon his return to Spain after his third voyage, Columbus was imprisoned for the barbaric acts of torture he had used to govern Hispaniola."
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/1010/ … in-prison.
"Hispaniola |ˌhispənˈyōlə|
an island in the Greater Antilles in the Caribbean Sea, divided into the countries of Haiti and the Dominican Republic. After its European discovery by Columbus in 1492, Hispaniola was colonized by the Spaniards, who ceded the western part (now Haiti) to France in 1697."
If we are to take that route, then we could also suggest there is no proof that the Romans fed the Christians to the Lions in the arena. Do you know anyone who was there? We could also dismiss the Spanish Inquisition as nothing but hearsay. Were you there? Do you know anyone who was?
The way we arrive at knowledge through the physical is very simple, and can be quite accurate. And this is how it is done: We study information from a variety of sources from different points along the time line. We then consider various accounts in the historical record from different authors. When these accounts tend to tell a similar story, or in many cases, the very same story, we can conclude with confidence that we are at the truth, or at least close enough to rock and roll. The brutality described by Bartolome de las Casas is in line with what came before during the Spanish Inquisition, and what came after. For instance, the massacres of Sand Creek and Wounded Knee happened toward the end of the 19th century, and cannot be dismissed as ancient fiction. When we also include the Europeans lust for gold and silver, and the papal bull "Dum Diversas" issued by Pope Nicholas V in 1452, a document that sanctioned and legalized the perpetual enslavement and dispossession of all non-Christians, we can easily see a pattern of evil. But most telling of all. The words of Columbus from his own journal, gives us more than a clue about his character:
"They... brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things, which they exchanged for glass beads and hawks' bells. They willingly traded everything they owned ... They were well built with good bodies and handsome features ... They do not bear arms, and do not know them ... They would make fine servants ... With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want."
Last but not least, in order to arrive at the truth we compare our own experiences to the historical record as well. And my personal experiences with America and racism are in line with the historical record. Apparently, many Americans want to believe in a fairy tale . They so desperately want to believe that they are "the good guys" that they will not only ignore the historical record, but also the evil being perpetrated by the United States government here and now in the 21st century.
"He was a navigator and adventurer …" Amerigo Vespucci was born in 1454, during the Renaissance. He knew geography, math and astronomy and could read and write in Latin. He worked for the Medici Family and Lorenzo The Magnificent who was head of the family, a merchant and a banker. In Spain, Vespucci helped stock ships with supplies for long sea voyages to Europe, Africa and the Middle East. Vespucci met Christopher Columbus in 1493 and helped him stock his ships for a second voyage to "Asia".
Vespucci joined the search for a passage to Asia. (Traveling to China and India by land had become increasingly dangerous due to wars.) His first attempt to find a sea route to the Far East for Spain failed and a second attempt was funded by Portugal. Vespucci eventually became a master navigator with knowledge of latitude and longitude based on the stars. He spent more than a year along the southern coast of South America. He eventually realized that Columbus was wrong and the land they were exploring was not the edge of Asia, but a "New World." He prepared a map of the routes that ships should take to the New World. He died a citizen of Spain in 1512.
The name America was suggested by a cartographer named Waldseemuller in 1507. This map maker created the first map of the world which included the lands, (continents,) across the Atlantic Ocean. World maps before this were copies of Ptolemy's from over a thousand years before.)
So, perhaps we should also blame the Renaissance men with their increasing knowledge and their quest for wealth.
1. "Bright side of life" = the "WHITE side of life".
2. "America the Beautiful" is a GLORIFICATION of
A m e r i c a n R a c i s m.
3. Many WHITES today iignore the E v i l around them.
Whites = bad. They deserve nothing.
What should be done with them??
Death to WHITES?
Gosh!!!
? I'm lost but I'm going back to read posts. I guess this will make sense or nonsense after I catch up!
Everyone has to understand , what All professional victims want , no have to have , IS an entity of blame !
As so along comes the biggest shoulders in the modern day world -----America !
Slavery , servitude , mass socio-economic - mass immigrationist's , any of those in cultural poverty , social activist reformers , liberal artists , intellectual idealists , political morons , ANY PERSON WHO HAS EVER FELT A VICTIM OF SOCIO-ECONOMICS in their own right , IS who needs an object to blame -for it all , Today ;Native Americans , African Americans ,BLM or in other words , intellectually entitled youth educated of entitled immaturity, anyone who can historically claim that they were somehow a victim of , mostly their own inability to evolve , mostly by tier own inability to advance socio-economically
for whatever reason -------------------Become these professional victims !
No one alive knows - NOT one person alive, who was a slave , a victim of manifest destiny , a victim of colonialist America . Yet, All that Americans need to do is turn around and there in front of you is a professional victim !
ahorse, do you think the blue collar workers who are supporting Donald Trump are a victim class also. There are those (not saying MANY) who theorize that that is the case.
+1 (especially that last line !)
( … and the seal says it all.)
+1,000,000,000,000,000,0000,000. Ahorseback is succinctly right regarding the seal. America has become the land of the whiners, victims, rescue meers, & those who adamantly refuse to take responsibility or to be accountable in their lives. America is also now a nation of accusers & blamers.
Especially in light of recent events, your entire narrative falls flat on its face. Many of the people who are speaking out against the evil and corrupt police departments across the nation are very, very, successful people. Jesse Williams, Colin Kaepernick, and Beyonce will not be on the welfare rolls anytime soon. Yet, they have all challenged the status quo at a great risk to their lucrative careers, as well as a great risk to their personal safety. These are courageous people who have honored our ancestors and encouraged young people to stand against evil.
Edward Snowden also had a successful career, but he gave all of that up to do the right thing. God Bless Edward Snowden! And let us not forget Martin Luther King. He did not have to risk his life, and ultimately sacrifice his life in the service of his people. He was a very educated and articulate man, to say the least. He could have chased the money instead of a dream. And if he would have done so, he most likely would be alive today and counting his money, while people of lesser means would still be riding in the back of the bus. Muhammed Ali also raised a loud voice against the evil of America. And at that time he wasn't some Hobo standing in a soup kitchen. He was the heavy weight champion of the world!
Based on what I perceive to be the commentary of working class whites,and colonized minorities, I maintain that a great majority of Americans are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. For example:
• It is a well known fact that less than 1% of the people living in the United States control most of the wealth.
• It is well known that the United States government is not spending trillions of dollars on "defense" but for the sake of Imperialist aggression and world domination.
• It is well known that white people are being murdered by the police in greater numbers than any other race.
• It is well known that companies like Monsanto actually control the U.S. government, have damaged the environment, killed millions of people, and will continue to kill millions more, all for the sake of American Greed.
And this is a very short list. But this list alone begs the question: If they are not themslves an evil breed of man, or if they are not suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, then why do so many mainstream Americans defend such an evil governmemnt; a government whose violent past mirrors the present ?
• It is well known that white people are being murdered by the police in greater numbers than any other race.
Me
I know of two white families who have spoken out over the past year. I wonder why more are not speaking out publicly.
I'd say probably because whites usually have a 'reap what you sow' mentality. Most of those killed by police have criminal records. It's difficult to sympathize when someone who lives on the wrong side of the law falls victim. Not saying that is right but that is usually the way it is.
aHaa! You said "Most!" I have seen several televised occasions where white people have been mistreated/killed by police. If there are 2 instances, there have to be more. The use of cameras, in time, will surely bring more instances.
If there is a crime, the person should be arrested and taken to trial. I know it gets sketchy sometimes; however, that is why evaluation, training and oversight need to be overhauled. Police are human beings like the rest of us. There are a large number of great ones and good ones. There are some that are not.
My police officer niece was concerned about something that happened. She said she didn't say anything because, "The next time I call for backup, it might not come."
People should give police whatever information they can when they look for suspects. Police officers should report matters of concern to (?).
I agree that there should be more oversight and there should be complete transparency. If an officer acts outside of the boundaries of the law they should not be protected. They should suffer the same fate you and I would for the same transgressions. And, I would take it one step further and call for psychological tests to be put into place. Bullies should not be hired in the first place.
"Just as agencies want to ensure you are physically fit for the job, they also want to ensure that you are psychologically stable and mentally fit to handle the job. This evaluation is typically made through written psychological exams and may be supplemented with an interview by a psychologist. Psychological testing serves two functions: to evaluate your character and emotional make-up and to ensure you are well suited to the job from a psychological standpoint." http://discoverpolicing.org/what_does_t … ng_process
What you ask for is already in place. The problem, of course, is that psychology is not an exact science and people DO change.
I agree, in principle, but I have seen bullies hired into the police force so what I consider to be the right attitude is not what they currently see.
But people do change, as you say. They are then protected by a system which puts the protection of the system above the need to protect the people. That needs to be broken.
"They are then protected by a system which puts the protection of the system above the need to protect the people."
This one is a little harder (or maybe a LOT harder). Considering that "the people" will always, without fail, figuratively hang any cop that has done anything to them, their family, their friends, etc. - well, cops need protection, too. They are human, they are not perfect and when coupled with that insistence that they are always wrong in protecting the public they need protection.
Overall, and in most cases, I think we do a pretty good job of finding the right balance. It will never be perfect and there will always be pockets where cop protection goes far beyond anything reasonable, but we try and generally go a fair job of it.
But, the people do not ALWAYS without fail figurarely hang any cop. I don't think that it asks a lot for municipal governments to review police procedures from time to time to protect the public and the city from needless liability risks, that will cost all of us. The status quo in a lot of larger cities may well not be good enough. It is the people that automatically dismiss concerns about the role of police from those citizens in low income communities that bother me.
Can't recall any police shooting where there weren't people want to hang the cop. Not a single one.
The role of police, whether low income communities, Manhattan or Iowa farmlands, is to protect the people and enforce the law. Nowhere do we see to ignore criminals based on skin color, which is what is being called for now.
There are many avenues available to accomplish these goals, including more interaction with the community. Foot patrols, in other words. The problem here is that we don't want to pay for the extra police it takes to do that.
Ok, the job is to enforce the law, but BOTH parties in any confrontation must held accountable for their actions. Whatever tools that it takes to verify what happened to support a case or claim or disprove it should be available
I'm sure you don't hear about every single shooting by police officer. The super solid show up in the local news and that is it. Seeing someone shot in the back by the police officer is pause for cause went it is videoed you see the officer moving things around.
You are so right about the community element. I didn't pay a ticket and the officer came to my house with an arrest warrant. He said, "I'll say I did find you. Run down there to pay the ticket." Little Rock was smaller and more centralized. Those you didn't know by name you recognize.
I agree. But in those cases where this does not hold true it needs to be rooted out with all vehemence possible. One bad apple cannot be protected or it creates an environment which allows more to turn bad.
How true! So maybe that is one of the missing links. Also, getting to know the people in the area helps. Residents will see officers as part of community and help point out the lawbreakers.
My friend's son applied for LAPD and he was turned down. He then applied for State Trooper. He was going through training and then tragedy struck.
He was sitting in the administrative offices of Montgomery Ward where he used to work as security. He was with 3 of his former co-workers.
He put his service revolver to his head and pulled the trigger. I don't know what his issues were. LAPD might have picked it up. There are some who want to become officers for the wrong reason.
The good thing is the process is being talked about and, without the Feds, states should be able to come up with procedures that will ensure suspects are caught and taken to trial.
That's pretty devastating, Sorry, Diane.
After gettingoutof the military, about 1980, there was a push for more cops in LA and I considered applying. The money was relatively good, but the policing job for some of the higher crime areas of South Central and East LA contained to much risk for me and I was no T.J Hooker. And guess where they wanted to send you?
This is another problem as well - where and how to we find good cops that are willing to do the job we want them to do? We make it very, very plain that they will be in constant danger of their life, that we don't trust them as far as we can throw them, and then expect perfection. All while refusing to hire those that enjoy the danger and violence. I don't have an answer.
I wouldn't be a cop for any amount of money and the large majority earn a pittance.
It is a tough job, yet there are parameters that we all must remain within. It was certainly one of the reason I walked away from it.
It is a tough job. Personally, I would support raising taxes to hire half again the number of cops, but few seem to agree with me. I'd love to see foot or bicycle patrols, for instance, and think that our police departments are overloaded to the point they can no longer respond to anything but major crimes.
Police interaction and common presence would go a long way to reducing crime.
I agree with you, we should pay and the we cannot expect this job to be done on the cheap. I have high
expectations and it is only fair that I be willing to pay for it
Of course, that brings up another subject: police are hired and paid for locally. Big cities cannot possibly afford the number of cops actually needed - shall we require that an Iowa farmer hire the cops for Chicago, simply because the people of Chicago refuse to behave themselves?
I never expected Iowa farmers to pay for cops needed in Illinois. This should be handled through primarely at the state government level, if necessary.
But a lot of us participate nationally providing relief to farmers through government provided subsidies, so everybody participates in helping each other out.
They don't offer combat pay for going into those areas?
You know, I never got far enough in the selection process to find out, seniority was always a determinant as to whether you could get the more desirable 'beat', otherwise you went where you were sent.
• It is a well known fact that less than 1% of the people living in the United States control most of the wealth.
Outside of you wanting that wealth for your own purposes, what is the problem with it?
• It is well known that the United States government is not spending trillions of dollars on "defense" but for the sake of Imperialist aggression and world domination.
Can you point to a single country the US government has taken over and annexed against their will?
• It is well known that companies like Monsanto actually control the U.S. government, have damaged the environment, killed millions of people, and will continue to kill millions more, all for the sake of American Greed.
Can you point to even a single person Monsanto has intentionally killed?
wrenchBiscuit Prevails Against Angry Mob
I am not addicted to materialism. Furthermore, my family were successful farmers, and I am a successful artist. I have enough money for my needs, and it is the muse that I am most interested in. A man who worships material things is quite pathetic, and the cemeteries are full of "rich" men. Where I am going there is a different standard, as opposed to the gold standard. If I wanted great wealth for any purpose it would be to destroy the evil Capitalists, and to imprison them for crimes against humanity.
The evil of Real Estate is the primary cause of poverty throughout the world. In a moral society men would not be warehoused on top of one another in filthy inner cities while the rich horde vast amounts of land and resources. This wealth would be distributed among the people according to their needs. In a moral society each man, woman, and child would be guranteed land, and clean water; not as a privilege, but as a birth right. It is perverse for a man to demand a price of admission for the land that no man himself has created, but was created by the very hand of God.
You commented: "Can you point to a single country the US government has taken over and annexed AGAINST their will? " Yes, that is easy, but I will name two instead of one!
• The Kingdom of Hawaii was invaded and taken over against the will of the Hawaiian people.
• Diego Garcia :Between 1968 and 1973 the entire native population was forcibly removed by the Imperalist U.S. government . The Chagossians were rendered homeless and destitute as a result.
The reluctance of both the Chagossians and the Hawaiians to U.S. Imperialist aggression is well documented. Bill Clinton even apologized to the Hawaiian people while in office for the U.S. overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii in January 1893. I will remind that it was in June of the same year that Katherine Bates penned the lyrics to "America The Beautiful". As I have commented in an earlier post, in light of the evil that had been perpetrated before, during, and after the composition of this song, the song stands as a perverse testament to American hypocrisy and indifference.
Although I have clearly answered your question concerning annexation, your question does not go to the heart of the matter. The United States has invaded 70 nations since 1776. Often, such as in Panama with Noriega, the U.S. government will not openly annex a country, but will install a puppet ruler and call the shots behind the scenes. At any rate, the U.S. Imperialist intervention into the affairs of these countries has caused great misery and death. This is not ancient history, as it is happening now at this very moment in Syria, and throughout the Middle East.
According to countercurrents.org:
"Since 1950 the UN has provided detailed demographic data that have permitted calculation of avoidable deaths, year by year, for every country in the world. 1950-2005 avoidable deaths total 1.3 billion for the whole world, 1.2 billion for the non-European world and 0.6 billion for the Muslim world , the latter carnage being 100 times greater than the WW2 Jewish Holocaust (5-6 million Jews killed, 1 in 6 dying from deprivation) or the “forgotten” WW2 Bengali Holocaust in which the British with Australian complicity deliberately starved 6-7 million Indians to death for strategic reasons . Currently 18 million people die avoidably each year in the Developing World on Spaceship Earth with the US in charge of the flight deck".
"..Thus in the period 1950-2005 there have been 82 million avoidable deaths from deprivation associated with countries occupied by the US in the post-1945 era".
MONSANTO-MONSANTO-MONSANTO
You asked if I can point to a single person Monsanto has intentionally killed. You have framed the question in such a way in order to posit the notion that it is impossible for us to know such intentions. Impossible for a fool ... perhaps. What Monsanto has continued to do for decades is to demonstratea a depraved indifference to human life for the sake of profit. Their intention is evident in the carnage, the wasted human life, and environmental waste they have left behind. I personally knew a Catholic priest in New York who died as a result of exposure to Agent Orange, which was manufactured by Monsanto. His name was Father Paul. He helped Vietnamese orphans during the Vietnam War in country.
According to globalresearch.ca:
"1960s: Monsanto, along with chemical partner-in-crime DOW Chemical, produces dioxin-laced Agent Orange for use in the U.S.’s Vietnam invasion. The results? Over 3 million people contaminated, a half-million Vietnamese civilians dead, a half-million Vietnamese babies born with birth defects and thousands of U.S. military veterans suffering or dying from its effects to this day!
Monsanto is hauled into court again and internal memos show they knew the deadly effects of dioxin in Agent Orange when they sold it to the government. Outrageously though, Monsanto is allowed to present their own “research” that concluded dioxin was safe and posed no negative health concerns whatsoever. Satisfied, the bought and paid for courts side with Monsanto and throws the case out. Afterwards, it comes to light that Monsanto lied about the findings and their real research concluded that dioxin kills very effectively".
A later internal memo released in a 2002 trial admitted:
“that the evidence proving the persistence of these compounds and their universal presence as residues in the environment is beyond question … the public and legal pressures to eliminate them to prevent global contamination are inevitable. The subject is snowballing. Where do we go from here? The alternatives: go out of business; sell the hell out of them as long as we can and do nothing else; try to stay in business; have alternative products.”
But Agent Orange is just one of the many deadly products produced by Monsanto that have killed millions of human beings, and threatened the health of millions more. PCB.s, DDT, Roundup, and GMO.s
to name a few. This evil corporation aptly illustrates the inhumanity of Capitalism, and the demonic underpinning of "The American Dream", and Manifest Destiny.
You can also add to that the annexation of the Phillipines as one of the US spoils of war in its war against Spain in the 1890s. There was resistance to this annexation in the form of armed resistance by the Phillipinos, not so happy to exhange one master for another. The Phillipines were granted independence by 1946.
Yes, the Philippines is another good example of U.S. Imperialism. But I already knew before I started that even when faced with the truth, there are many who will deny what is staring them right in the face. The argument that a particular evil happened in the past is no good argument at all. But this is the one the apologist will always use. wilderness has proclaimed to the world that after 60,100,or 500 years, it is not the same people, or nation. And thus, there should be no accountability. But it appears he has once again painted himself into a corner. For it follows that forgiveness, and forgetfulness, of the brutality of an entire nation, should also apply to the individual. Perhaps Leslie Van Houten should try using the same excuse. After all, she has served nearly 50 years in prison for the brutal murders of Rosemary and Leno LaBianca. And I am sure she is a totally different person than the 19 year old girl who was arrested and sent to prison for life in 1971. Also, according to many here, it is not good to carry hatred for someone, or some thing, for so many years.
And so, if the mainstream feels this way, and are all about forgiveness, why is this woman still in prison? For the record, I will tell you what you already know. The Americans pick and choose who they will demonize. All totaled, the death toll in the Tate / LaBianca murders amounts to 7. But before I continue, let it be known that I am a "Believer in One". What does it mean? It means I feel that if only one innocent person must suffer and die, out of over 320 million, then it is one too many. Having made that clear, I also feel that the greater the number, the more egregious the crime. The Americans have demonized Leslie Van Houten for her participation in the brutal killing of Rosemary and Leno LaBianca. Considering the irreversible nature of a murder victim, I do not have a great amount of sympathy for her cause. Especially since this event was more of a "thrill killing" than any sort of justifiable homicide with mitigating circumstances. However, when we consider that she has been demonized for killing two people, while celebrated men like Columbus,George Washington, and Harry Truman, are personally, and collectively responsible for the brutal killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent people, the continued imprisonment of Leslie Van Houten is nothing less than an outrage; not necessarily because of her suffering, but because of the hypocrisy of mainstream America. Columbus Day is the most despicable holiday ever invented,as he was a criminal, and a mass murderer of biblical proportion.
I have been admonished not to hate the evil colonizers, and those who celebrate their allegiance to evil each year on Columbus Day. But the state of California, and mainstream America, appear to be comfortable in continuing to punish a woman nearly 50 years after the fact. Some will argue that in her case it is not about hate, but about justice. But I too can say the same thing about America. After the time of hating has long since passed, justice must still prevail. If the American people truly want to move forward, then this macabre celebration of violence and evil must surely end. There must be no statute of limitation on murder, whether that crime is committed by an individual, or on behalf of an entire nation.
WB, are you sugesting we don't have National holidays?
With regard to Van Houten, it is possible to forgive a murder and the person still be accountable for what he/she has done.
I have asked God's forgiveness for things I did 45 years ago but I have not forgotten. I want to ask forgiveness of others and have no idea of how they will respond.
At the same time my sister has a grudge against me about things that happened before I was born. I told her that I am sorry that those things happened to her but I can't change them. She has gone on to find reasons to be upset with all family members for one thing or another. I told her she is going to die alone, bitter and unhappy. The doctor gave her 10 years to live about 2 years ago.
It would be great if there were some solution for justice. Often times it is impossible to get justice. I've learned a lot during our discussion and still believe we should "hold people responsible for what they hae done." Denial is offensive. Acknowledgement goes a long way in the healing process.
Scott Wilds has taken on the project of help us to put the pieces of our family puzzle together. He said there is some information he can't reveal yet because elderly white relatives have not been told.
What types of things do you think should be done?
Just a comment on your comment about your sister. I had a sister proclaim I was alone. I'm not. I simply have no reason to allow two of my siblings to abuse my good nature. Don't know your particular circumstances but some things in life are far worse than severing ties with siblings.
Live, it used to be complicated. She would say untrue things about me to other family members and they would believe it or say, "You two should try to get along!" Slowly she started involving all of them in drama. She told me that she saw a psychiatrist once and the psychiatrist validated things she already believed.
I thought it odd to see a psychiatrist once. In a later discussion, she unwittingly revealed that the psychiatrist was at an attorney's office where my sister worked on a case. This is ridiculous! She sat there discussing her personal situation, unofficially and without paying, and considered herself receiving a professional evaluation.
I told her she should see a psychiatrist continually to seek real help.
No, not at all. I am suggesting that people must stop lying to their children and celebrating evil men; men who were murderers, rapists, pedophiles, and thieves. It is not only an affront to the African and the Indigenous, but also to the European as well. It is an insult to the European that the only white men who are celebrated with national holidays were world class criminals: George Washington and Columbus. The evidence is clearly revealed in the historical record. But in order to truly appreciate their crimes against humanity, mainstream America must first lift the veil of racism. It is only then that they can understand the Law of Gravity, and realize that the African and the Indigenous who these miscreants slaughtered,enslaved, and dispossessed, were also human beings; human beings who possessed human rights, in spite of the fact that the evil Colonialists did not recognize those rights.
There have been plenty of white Europeans who contributed to American society who were not rapists, murderers, and thieves. Clara Barton, William Lloyd Garrison, John Brown, Henry David Thoreau,Emma Goldman, Albert Einstein, Thomas Edison, and Nikolai Tesla are just a few likely candidates. These are the kind of people who deserve to be celebrated.
As far as the behavior of your sister is concerned, it is a sad affair, but not uncommon among families. She may very well die alone. But from another perspective that may be desirable. I understand the possibility because my entire family was folded back into the dust long ago. Although I loved my family, I am now relieved that there is no one left to say goodbye to. My death will be a more pleasant affair. Although I will die alone, I only look forward to saying hello. Perhaps her estrangement will make it easier for her to say goodbye.
Don't forget to mention the Native American's who were rapist's ,murderers , kidnappers , thieves and conquering colonialists ! How convenient it mush be to categorically chastise only one race of people for the story -book endings required of pseudo-intellectuals and their uninformed minority followers , you had crayons for those history books that ALSO colored the truth differently perhaps ?
Keep drinking that cool - aid !
I don't know if the full truth will ever be captured; however, it will take a group of history experts and activists to perform this tremendous task.
We need to forget yesterday. Embrace the humanity in all of us now.
It is urgent.
I don't know if forgetting is the thing to do. We need to learn from past mistakes and use them to help us make the future better for everyone.
Why? Every day is a new day and a good day to forget the past with a clear outlook. What is that clear outlook? We are all children of God. See it, live it, believe it ...
And carry on in positivity.
This is not being pollyannish. This is being strong and warrior-like.
You are more interested with taking sides than staying on topic, or even sticking to the truth. What you offer is simply not relevant to the issue. But don't worry, I am your friend, and I am always here to remind you. Look up the word "relevance" in the dictionary and you might understand. Speaking more slowly:The United States only has two national holidays that specifically celebrate evil men. Those men were not African or Indigenous. Those men happened to be of white European ancestry. Your argument against truth and justice might play well at the local watering hole, but not up here with the big boys.
P.S. I do not have to inform minorities of anything at all. A majority of the minority are well aware of the racist oppression that continues to exist here in the "land of the free". That includes the Uncle Toms, the Vendidos, and good ol' Uncle Tonto. I am attempting to inform and help the white people who are confused, and who are looking for direction.
And THERE is your problem and not your solution ! " .....I am attempting to help the white people who are confused ........." No , quite frankly , like so many other of the pseudo- intellectual in our education institutions , what you are doing is playing on the sympathies of naïve , white, minority , uneducated youth , in the youth filled and inexperienced in life , in the halls of the elementary education system , in the circles of insecure or uninformed social circles or elsewhere , If your intention was to inform the masses of the some vast "unwritten history" , you have failed , and you have failed by injecting incredible bias , unknown " truths " .
There is more written history out there than can ever be digested about ALL of our western history , while the left invariably targets our naive youth , you lose all possible real mileage towards honest solutions , almost all possible sympathies because of the injection of mistruths , bias and unverifiable , and even totally open reverse prejudices .
WB, it will take a coordinated effort of historians and activists to change history books. That is the only way to correct history. I know there are some efforts going on now to include non-whites in history books.
Lifting the veil of racism ... that's a toughy. It is a heart issue. People who have taken classes after racist remarks/incidents have become more "dug in" in their views. IMHO, there will always be racism. Although I am affected by it, not as much as my earlier years, I want to focus on love.
I'm impacted more by family now than racism. My sister, and her daughter who is now my adopted sister, have treated me badly over the years but now they feel no shame in asking me for money or to help them out of a situation. I pray and help. Even in helping, I need wisdom to help but not enable.
I like your philosophy on your family!
"Yes, the Philippines is another good example of U.S. Imperialism. But I already knew before I started that even when faced with the truth, there are many who will deny what is staring them right in the face."
-----------------
Yes, we are guilty in this regard, I am taken back to the situation in Guatamala, where we interceded against democratically elected goverment there to protect the interests of an AMERICAN multinational, the AMERICAN Fruit Company during the 1950s. Today, I am disappointed that the current administration is slow to respond to the right-wing coup in Brazil, as of late.
I am willing to forgive what occurred in the distant past, but it is irresponsible for me to forget as I need to always be able to identify troubling signs as a fact that 'lessons have not been learned'. I am more troubled by those that after so much time have passed find it convenient to deny that exploitation of certain groups never occurred. This much like the 'holocaust deniers' from the period of Adolph Hitler's ThirdReich.
When you are the 'top dog', it is always easy to say 'let bygones be bygones'.
-------------
The Tate-La Bianca murders were horrific crimes, and I can understand why she and Manson may never be released. The same fate should be the case for Sirhan-Sirhan, the assassin of Robert Kennedy. Itis nota matter of hatred, but justice. Like you, I rather see 10 guilty people released than one innocent person held or executed.
Columbus Day is a holiday depending on your point of view. While there were indiginous people here prior to the arrival of the European, there is only cause to celebrate based solely upon the arrival of the European?
I haven't got time to hate people anymore, as there are fewer days ahead then behind. But, that does not mean that I am not oblivious to what's going on and not aware of the danger from certain people, institutions and attitudes. I will explain my point of view to those that will listen and hope to listen to my adversaries points of view and their rationale, in return. I can't blame people living today for the atrocities of the past, but I can blame them for not seeing the link of past events to current circumstances. Whatever we are today has to be in part a function of what occured, yesterday.
Brutality and violence seems to be the mainstay of the human condition, not limited to any specific group of human family. Seems like there is plenty of 'helter skelter' to go around.
"This wealth would be distributed among the people according to their needs. In a moral society each man, woman, and child would be guranteed land, and clean water; not as a privilege, but as a birth right. "
Kind of what I said, isn't it? You would have their money for your own uses - that you consider those uses a "moral right" doesn't change anything at all.
"• The Kingdom of Hawaii was invaded and taken over against the will of the Hawaiian people."
The hawaiian people voted to join the union; there was no "takeover" and shading the truth will not change that, either. "Out of a total population of 600,000 in the islands and 155,000 registered voters, 140,000 votes were cast, the highest turnout ever in Hawaii. The vote showed approval rates of at least 93% by voters on all major islands" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Admission_Act
I'm sorry, but the British control Diego Garcia. You want to blame someone for "Imperialism", blame them.
So Monsanto is killed no one, in spite of your ridiculous claim it has killed millions - not even with deadly GMO's we all depend on for a food source. Even you cannot hold a company responsible for what others do with it's product...though come to think of it you hold the white race responsible for what a few people did 500 years ago. Perhaps you can, but it won't wash with me. Our corporations are not the moral guardian of the people.
You forgot to add the "majority" of white people.
That vote came nearly 60 years after the United States Invaded the Kingdom of Highway and annexed the Hawaiian Islands as a territory. Here is the important part you left out:
The overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii began with the coup d'état of January 17, 1893 on the island of Oahu, leading to the end of the hereditary monarchs, largely at the hands of United States citizens within the kingdom government under Queen Lili'uokalani and backed by an invasion of U.S. Marines under John L. Stevens. Hawaii was initially reconstituted as an independent republic, but the ultimate goal of the revolutionaries was the annexation of the islands to the United States, which was finally accomplished in 1898.
Members of the native population persuaded the new queen to draft a new constitution in an attempt to restore native rights and powers.The move was resisted by the Committee on Annexation, which were a small group of businessmen and politicians who felt that annexation by the United States, the major importer of Hawaiian agricultural products, would be beneficial for the economy of Hawaii. On January 17, 1893, Queen Liliuokalani yielded her authority announcing it was to 'avoid any collision of armed forces, and perhaps the loss of life.' In 1895, a failed attempt by Hawaiian royalists to restore Queen Liliuokalani to power resulted in her arrest. She was forced to sign a document of abdication that relinquished all her future claims to the throne. She was then made to endure a humiliating public trial before a military tribunal in her former throne room.Queen Liliuokalani was convicted of having knowledge of a royalist plot, and was fined - she was sentenced to five years in prison and hard labor - although it was later reduced."
And your spin that 94% of Hawaiians voted for statehood is also a racist lie that has played well with the Archie Bunker crowd. According to statehoodhawaii.org http://statehoodhawaii.org/2009/05/12/t … lebiscite/
"There is nothing to suggest that Hawaii’s plebiscite, offering only a choice between “statehood” or “to remain a territory,” fulfills the international mandate. Also, there is little to suggest that residents of Hawaii were properly educated on the process or understood the importance of the plebiscite and what rights were available to the population. As the state insists that 94% of the voters voted for statehood, nowhere do they mention that of those eligible to vote, only 35% actively voted for statehood, as most Hawaii residents did not vote.
On March 18, 1959, the day Congress passed the Admission Act, Joseph F. Smith, Professor of Speech and an advocate of statehood at the University of Hawaii, sent a letter to Governor Quinn describing a recent study he conducted. He wrote, “I venture to predict that one of the most surprising features of our forthcoming election will be the number of votes opposing statehood, plus the number of ballots which will carry neither yes or no votes.” Further he observed, “only three of the students were actively in favor of statehood, and the remainder were either apathetic, saying, ‘it will make no difference,’ or definitely opposed. I think, unquestionably, these youngsters reflect the attitude of their parents.” This attitude of apathy reflects the fact that Territorial Governors were appointed by a U.S. President that residents of Hawaii were barred from voting for."
"... Examining the assertion that 94% of Hawaii’s citizens voted for statehood, actual numbers reveal a much smaller percentage and the numbers suggest that only 35% of eligible voters actively sought statehood."
I'm not even going to comment on your ridiculous apology for Monsanto. Such nonsense warrants no response.
If I failed to cover the silliness of going back a hundred years and saying that the US is the same country it was then, I apologize. I understand that five hundred years is as yesterday if you hate badly enough, but it is not the response of rational people.
You're right - there is no response possible. Partly because the end of the trail is declaring that the farmer that grew the apple that was used to poison the lady is a murderer. Or the man running the machine that made the match used in the arson is. Or the people working for Monsanto, for that matter, or anyone providing raw materials. Like the worker at the city water plant.
It is remarkable how people try to silence the opposition these days with words and phrases such as : hate, whining,race baiting, victim mentality, and "playing the race card". This is a perverted society, and it is perverse to suggest that hate is strictly a negative and destructive emotion. A man who hates pain will run to the doctor as quickly as he can, and in doing so, his aversion to pain may actually save his life. But a man will never purposely destroy what he loves. The architects, and the beneficiaries of iniquity have always defended the evil hand that leavens their bread. Such loyalties are clearly understood. But it is only a hatred of evil, along with a love for past, present, and future generations, that will motivate a man to rebuke this evil legacy.
I will not be a party to rape, murder and genocide, simply because it pleases the majority for a man to be docile, patriotic, and compliant. You made this comment onhorseback:
"No one alive knows - NOT one person alive, who was a slave , a victim of manifest destiny , a victim of colonialist America."
But you should speak for yourself, because I have known them all, even those yet unborn. What man does not bleed the red blood that now courses throughout my body? What man does not desire for his family to prosper, and to greet tomorrow with a smile? What man wants to be dispossessed, disenfranchised, and relegated to the status of a pack animal? Yes, I have known all of these. But as you can see, I am not a friend of the devil. I am not every man, and every man is not me. I have no understanding of such a wicked and malicious heart; not only a heart of stone, but a heart made of titanium steel; an evil heart that ignores the pain and suffering of innocents while keeping the beat of 500 years, and profiting from that misery. I know none of these, as I am not afflicted with the sickness of materialism.
Many here would do well to appreciate the words of Jesus:
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungry, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.....
I mean Diane! If you were discriminated against, those people were dopes. You just carry on!
YOU JUST CARRY ON! It is every person's job to fight for his rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness! This government's constitution was designed to protect these rights. The LAW is on each individual's side.
YOU JUST CARRY ON without letting the bastards get you down!
and if you have to, knock THEM down.
A RESOUNDING THANK YOU. Don't let the haters & negaters prevent you from succeeding. They're mere humans after all. Succeed & don't permit anyone to distract from one's shine.......
This just in:
Victims = Good Guys.
Hard Working Americans = ... well, you know.
Victims=deified
Hard Working People= castigated
Successful People= ostracized
Highly Successful People=demonized
gm, I read your comments regarding people born in low socio-economic environment. Some of your responses seem to indicate that they are doomed. Some seem to indicate that they are victim of their origin/upbringing.
If you don't mind, can you share what impact your upbringing has on your philosophy of life?
" ... I am not afflicted with the sickness of materialism."
Prove it.
I know what I have seen, what I have heard, and I stand today as a reliable witness before man and God. I have no such talent that would enable me to see into your heart. Unlike many of the "scholars" who have blessed us us here with their thoughtful commentary, and a hearty revival of Archie Bunkerisms, I don't pretend to know your character, or your intentions. And I find it remarkable that you would raise such a question when I have not singled you out as being materialistic. If the shoe doesn't fit then why do you insist on wearing it?
But the intention and the character of the majority is easy to measure and consider. For instance, when we see at least one car in every driveway, and often two, then we can understand that the average American has accepted the evil of the automobile into their lives. The automobile has quickly become one of many American Idols. There are many proofs of the materialistic nature of a majority of Americans. But the automobile alone should be enough to convince anyone. For tens of thousands of years, civilizations flourished throughout the world without the automobile. Great artists and thinkers such as Copernicus, Van Gogh, da Vinci, Beethoven, Isaac Newton, and Emmanuel Swedenborg, also did quite well without the automobile.
The automobile exists solely for the purpose of enabling consumerism and realizing the Capitalist vision for the proletariat; that vision being an efficient work force that will accept perpetual servitude in exchange for the comfort and convenience of a materialistic society. The continued success of the many shopping malls across the nation are only further proof of a materialistic society. And of course, around every shopping mall is a huge parking lot filled with automobiles!
Evil always comes with a smile, and with something "useful" that can make our lives easier. But modern convenience and technology has bound the modern man as securely as the shackles and chains that bound the slave during the antebellum. In fact, these shackles and chains are much harder to break.
I have not read past this:
" I have not singled you out as being materialistic. If the shoe doesn't fit then why do you insist on wearing it?"
Uh, yes you have. I, as you know, I am white. Plus you say that my type, who are patriotic, are evil and materialistic.
Reading on, I have about five cars! Do old ones count? A couple trucks for hard work, for helping others, for making a living and for PAYING TAXES!
What enables you to pay taxes?
You have just identified why you are having trouble understanding these issues we are discussing. If you only read the first paragraph then you can't possible understand my argument. Furthermore, the fact that you are white doesn't necessarily mean that you are evil. As I have commented many times before, I have never suggested that all white people are evil, all patriotic people are evil, or all Americans are materialistic. It would be good if you could base your arguments on the truth as opposed to a fictional narrative you and others here are trying to promote. My criticisms are aimed at the majority. I find it remarkable that I have to keep reminding English speaking people that the word "majority" is not synonymous with "all".
And it seems you are confused about the meaning of materialism. The mere possession of material things does not necessarily qualify someone as a materialistic person. I feel many respondents here would benefit from a remedial course in Basic English, and reading comprehension.
If you mean *majority* of whites you really need to take some remedial writing lessons to remind you to include words which will indicate what you are actually thinking.
What is YOUR definition of "materialism?"
(((I have no such talent that would enable me to see into your heart.)))
Perhaps you know more of the heart than you realize.
Proverbs 4:23 Watch over your heart with all diligence, For from it flow the springs of life.
Luke 6:45 "The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.
The majority of the white race of people are just materialistic, evil and ultimately greedy.
We got it already!
AND ...
Ignore CNN/Fox News and what politicians say. They don't care about us.
Sometimes I watch to compare what is reported as opposed to what other networks are reporting and the difference in spin.
Race among racism
Demands of accountability that's nothing
but an emotional need
your screams for entitlement
will you arise from the greed
Who is the perpetrator and who the victim
yet you still say they lied
who alive today is the demon
we've all forgotten who cried
No monsters no victims but those
who came before
just what will it all get for you though
as you cry for more
When the rocks have landed hard or the store
is burned
just what part did you play
what have your children learned
Saw a young child the other day pick
up a brick and I wondered when
I thought of the hatred is in his hands and wondered
where has his father been
Light and dark exist together here on the material plain.
Until the day we are of the light and don't want darkness, in whatever form it may take, we have to put up with a lot of stuff. Some of us come from a very idealistic generation and overreact to negativity and over-want perfection on earth. We have to get more realistic and conditions on the horizon may help with, no… FORCE that. (and these conditions will force us to join together 100% as a nation undivided.)
We cannot move forward pinpointing our negatives. We may have some problems with attitudes as far as jealousy and arrogance no matter what race. We are all humans. We have progressed on this continent a lot as far as race relations. It does no good rehashing, condemning and finger-pointing all the while making up stuff. Are you surmising in every case of suspected racism?
I would say so. Maybe you wouldn't, but then, yeah ...
Are you guessing?
Hi Word55,
I read it. I agree on the two greatest commandments: a) Love God and b) Love our neighbors as ourselves. It this were followed through, our world problems would not exist.
Two problems, unfortunately, keep this from happening
1. Unbelievers do not want to love God.
2. "Believers" who do not exhibit the love of God.
Don't believe ancestors - I don't agree with this one. I think we should listen to ancestors with discernment. When we hear negative things we have to put them in perspective.
Some people don't want to love. We have to pray for them and make sure we have a posistive impact. We may be the only Jesus some will ever see. We should show his love.
The past was born of ignorance.
We, (each of us; no matter what nationality, culture or country ... and a lot of us are very mixed anyway,) need to wise up. Its all a matter of attitude. No arrogance. No jealousy.
Acceptance and Compassion.
It's hard, but it is possible.
No Kathryn, it doesn't go away just like that. It comes up occasionally and in a big way just like when First Lady, Michelle Obama made that "slaves" statement in her speech. I had not known that the White House was built by slaves. I simply thought that they deserved the credit. Slave owners never thought ahead that all people would be recognized as equal in all areas of life. http://hubpages.com/education/How-To-Im … -Relations
why not, word55? Why would she bring that up?
It is IN THE PAST. Leave it there!!!
Why did she mention it anyway. To make what point?
We are here in the present. The past makes no difference in the light of REALITY!!!!
And they never thought they would father children from the slaves they raped. I worked with a Black teacher who goes back to West Virginia for family reunions with the Thomas Jefferson descendants. It took a while for them to be recognized but they are now included in the reunions. I don't know how individuals feel but they are all captured on the family picture.
This showed Thomas Jefferson was
1. a rapist
2. unfaithful to his wife
3. a deadbeat dad
4. a hypocrite
see this focus on the past and how destructive it is?
The reality is that these children/descendants were born and are unique individuals with talents and opportunities and are now free of the past.
I don't think it was destructive. I think it showed that Thomas Jefferson was human, flawed and made some. It was not just him. Last year, we found that our ancestry name, Robinson, should be Dalrymple. It is a pretty unusual name. We are in contact with several of them.
Today, kids have a right to know who their blood parents are. DNA tests allow us to piece together the reality of our unknown past. We have a committee working on our history. We have found many things to be proud of in our ancestry. We take the good with the bad. Our family has doctors, lawyers and businessmen from the late 1800s and early 1900s that lost track of each other after their parents came out of slavery.
well, Good! I wish I knew my past. All I know is that my ancestors fled Scotland for some reason or other. My parents taught us to move forward. So, on the other hand, it's fine I do not know my past. Would it change me one way or the other to know whether or not I am actually a Mc Donald? Probably better to not know!
"… there is still a large powerful contingent of the McDonald family which is connected to the Mystery Religions, and which has family members who are part of the Illuminati. Each of the major Scottish clans had an area that they controlled of Scotland. The McDonalds controlled the islands and coastal areas on the west coast of Scotland. When the Knights Templars fled persecution, in order to escape the various British fleets, they sailed a route that took them to western Scotland. During the time of King Philippe IV of France, the McDonalds were involved in the movement of the Knights Templars. The Knights Templars had adopted gnostic/satanic practices and during the centuries they guarded the pilgrims in the Middle East. The Order had also become the International Bankers of Europe and large landowners in Europe. The King of France twisted the Pope’s arm (so to speak) to get him to go along with a campaign to eliminate the Knights Templars. Because the McDonald clan was in private still pagan, they were willing to help the Knights Templar escape the Pope’s decree against the Templars." etc here:
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/blood … donald.htm
It sounds like you know quite a bit about your family. I have heard so many things about the Illuminati but I don't know a lot about it.
Ha ha that article was a real spin. I know nothing.
The racists want to vilify brave warriors like Jesse Williams and Colin Kaepernick for the crime of boldly standing up for the people. Yet, they will freely celebrate murderers,make excuses, and have grand parades for rapists and pedophiles like Jefferson and Columbus. This only further reveals the evil heart of America. And to answer your question that you posted earlier: Yes, I maintain that a majority of white Americans are either indifferent to the plight of our people, or they are simply racist. And I further maintain that it has always been this way. The cavalier and hateful responses we have seen in this Forum are only a testament to the truth I have spoken. There is life after life. And in the next life, I will see you there. But I promise, you will see very few Americans in Heaven. They would not like it there anyway, as there is no evil to glorify in Heaven.
"But I promise, you will see very few Americans in Heaven. They would not like it there anyway, as there is no evil to glorify in Heaven." wB
Don't you think this is a little over the top? Good grief.
No,I do not, as I am a reasonable man. You make a mockery of my words, and I understand it has become a great sport here on Hubpages to shoot the piano player. But I will now remind of what is a "little over the top". Read, Learn, and Move a Muscle
• Shooting and killing a 12 year old child in Cleveland Ohio who is playing with a toy gun in public, within 3 seconds of arriving at the scene. This is over the top.
• An evil Ohio grand jury allowing the murderer of Tamir Rice to go free. This is over the top.
• Since before the time of Emmett Till, the ability of cowardly white Americans to torture and kill children of color with impunity. This is over the top.
• Working class Americans whose sons and daughters have been used as cannon fodder by a ruling elite since the Revolutionary War; misguided individuals who continue to swear allegiance to the killers of their own children, their own oppressors. This is over the top.
• General Dynamics receiving a $65.3 million contract to support the Iraq M1A1 Abrams program. The U.S. approved sale of $600 million in M1 tank ammunition to Iraq. The sale of $579 million worth of Humvees to Iraq. The sale of $600 million in Howitzers and trucks to Iraq. The sale to $700 million worth of Hellfire missiles to Iraq. This is called the business of war. This is over the top.
• The murder of 2,996 American citizens on 9/11 by elements within the U.S. government; mass murder used as a means of laying a foundation for the opening of a pipeline of gold to Iraq. This is over the top.
• Professing Christianity while refusing to carry the cross of Jesus; reviewing bank statements while children lie bleeding in Cleveland, Aleppo, and Palestine; children torn apart by bullets and weaponry made in America. This is hypocrisy. This is a little over the top. And this is a one way ticket to Hell.
WB, there is a lot that we can't change. I thank God that his love is unchanging. I ask him daily to empty me of my spirit and fill me with His Spirit.
We must forgive, even when others don't forgive. God has blessed me and continues. I try to show my appreciation by being obedient to His Word.
I have learned a lot from you and understand your anger. Do you think God might be pleased if you forgive. He is the Righteous Judge and handles injustice in His own time.
Gotta go to bed!
Be blessed WB!
You asked earlier about the definition of materialism. Look around you Katherine. The United States is the most accurate definition of materialism.
I am a "True Color" kind of guy! It is good when people reveal their true colors, instead of holding hands, swaying back and forth, and singing "We Are The World", while continuing to enjoy the spoils of Colonialism. You admit in your commentary that you find the truth to be "destructive". The evil government of Arizona feels the same way. But there are only three alternatives to the truth.
1. We can cover the truth with a lie
2. We can simply ignore the truth
3. Or we can add a nice helping of sugary sweet frosting to make it go down better.
Which do you prefer? Door number 1, 2, or 3?
Furthermore, I find it remarkable that you find the rape of black slaves ( translation: women, human beings) to be acceptable since their descendants are living in the "land of opportunity". Do you also find the rape of white women by black men equally as acceptable?
Rape is never acceptable since it is violently disregarding the will of another. However, once the child is born and is somehow cared for, raised and grows up, something is going right. That something must be valued, no matter how small. Positivity must be acknowledged: Positivity over negativity in all cases.
In the light of reality, we can accept we are all the same: spiritual beings. We are spiritual beings animating these bodies. This is what we must focus on, beyond what we see. The problem with cops and those outside the law is that they do not master their nervous systems / reactions to life. They do not assess situations correctly. This is where we need to look for answers: The ability to know more than what meets the eye. How?
Through self-mastery toward comprehending reality, not what one imagines.
4. Understanding the truth in the light of reality. For instance. Why are some skins darker than others?
Look at the conditions which contributed to evolution: In Africa, where the sun was constantly blazing, the skin required more melanin to protect the inhabitants from the sun. Really what more do you need to know? Back in slavery days, Others took advantage of the ignorance of the times. We no longer do. We accept what happened and move on. What does it help to stew in a pot of vinegar?
Since you have moved on, then I expect to see you at Standing Rock, and the next Columbus Day protest. I also expect that you will be petitioning the government to honor all broken treaties. Besides, this is what "peaceful protest" looks like Katherine. Would you prefer the alternative?
~ what if there was no protest at all?
If you ask me to petition for broken treaties, that seems reasonable. What would that involve?
EDIT Actually, its probably impossible/impractical. The original Asian immigrants can join us. They have full invitation. (There is another thread for you: "Why the OAI people don't just join us." Many have. They are probably better off than those who have stayed on the land given.)
"Alternative:" If you are referring to anger and violence, what a pathetic waste of energy.
Most things in life can be had for the price of the effort.
Maybe we just need to remember, in our minds, to "Carry On!" no matter who or what seems to be standing in our way.
Not easy to do, but the law is on our side if we are on the law's side.
Do you think none of us have issues of SOME TYPE of discrimination?
I do! Every one of us does. Who do you know that is
Oh, So Privileged
????????????????
~ materialism: We need certain things for survival. We don't need too much or too little. We all have roles to play. Modern life contains things which help us fulfill the roles we have taken on as far as life decisions and our financial obligations. What do we live for? money or love? Ultimately, materialism without love is no fun anyway. Same with love and no money… or car.
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