Why can't people discuss race in a productive manner?

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  1. dianetrotter profile image62
    dianetrotterposted 8 years ago

    I changed from question to forum to allow commenters to have more space to express their opinions.  I initiated the question, and now forum, to discuss reactions to Michelle Obama's statement at the DNC.  Her words:  “I wake up every morning in a house that was built by slaves,”  Should she have said that her ancestors were forced to help build the White House and their slave owners received payment?

    How does Bill O'Reilly know they were fed well and had good accommodations?  What did they eat?  Where did they sleep?

    Should slavery be forgotten?  If so, does that mean that the ancestry of African Americans is not important?

    1. jackclee lm profile image75
      jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with you. Why can't we discuss the race issue so that we can move forward as a nation?
      I tried in my circle to talk about it and whenever I approach this topic, I get shut down because they always claim I can't understand them because of the color of my skin - not being black. If that is the case, I just don't see how we can make progress.

      1. Credence2 profile image82
        Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Your doing fine, Jack, the fact that you are even willing to listen and understand places you light years ahead of most.

      2. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Hi Jackclee!  You're in the right place!  It's true there are some bitter AAs.  That helps nothing.  There should be mutual respect.  and honest compassionate dialog.

      3. profile image0
        Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        You have met some very strange black people or taken a very aggressive attitude.

        1. jackclee lm profile image75
          jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I just want to have a conversation with them about how to solve the race problem in our nation... The dialog didn't go very far. I wish it could be different. I am open to suggestions.

          1. profile image0
            Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Try relaxing a little, try some listening. Leave the hard issues until someone trusts you.

            Racism is a deeply upsetting and very personal issue for people on the receiving end.

            Frankly,  racism extends to every group, from every group. But it is not hard to get past it if you treat people as human beings.

            This is not idealism this a practical guide to living in multicultural societies.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I love it Will APSE!

              Thank you!

              Diane

            2. gmwilliams profile image85
              gmwilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Good early morning, Mr. Apse.

              You are succinctly correct when you stated that every group has encountered prejudice in one way or another.  However, there are some groups who encountered more prejudice than others.  In Britain proper, the Irish endured the worst prejudice possible.  The Irish were considered personae non gratae by the British.  The British instituted the famine in order to starve the Irish.   In the recent 20th century, there was a sign in England which stated, No Blacks, no Irish, no dogs."   The Irish weren't treated well by the British at all. 

              Then there are the Jews.  In Europe, the Jews encountered prejudice of the horrendous kind.  They were viewed as separate from the rest of the population.  They were blamed for any imaginable horror.  They were considered to be Christ-killers.  They were the blame for the bubonic plague.  They were placed into ghettoes.  Pogroms were instituted against them.  The greatest horror came to them in World War II, when 66.66% were exterminated w/some communities wiped out forever.

              Yes, all groups encountered prejudice but some groups went through a quite hellish experience.  However, people unfortunately have a tribal consciousness.  It is a them vs us mentality.  Hopefully, humankind will one day progress beyond tribalism.

              1. profile image0
                Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                The Irish are still subject to pathetic racists jibe in the UK, sadly but at least it is merely personal, these days (still hurtful but less dangerous).

                Mostly, when you look at officially sanctioned racism of the kind common in the past it is a cover for the economic exploitation of a population.

                Nazi propaganda declared Slavs to be sub-human which made it easier to deal with the guilt of stealing land in Eastern Europe and enslaving the populations. British and American slavers declared Africans, Godless savages for the same reason.

                Those old ideologies still linger. It helps if white people stop feeling guilt over that period (they were not even born). Without the guilt you can look at history clearly and take an optimistic view. At least a few good people like Wilberforce stood up and changed things.

                There is no reason why the present population cannot make some progress too.

                Obviously, it is a lot harder for the descendants of those victims of atrocities to forgive and forget.

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I think guilt/shame may cause many white Americans to not want to speak of slavery or declare that Africans were involved.  Africans' involvement does not justify European or American involvement?

                  We should be able to discuss slavery without white people feeling guilty.  We should not try to make them feel guilty about slavery.

                  Problem
                  The real problem now is the actions that flowed from slavery
                  1.  Whites who feel superior to Blacks (will not hire qualified Black people, will say derogatory things about Black people (Michelle Obama looks like a gorilla), etc.  There are many hate websites on the internet.
                  Race-Based Hate and Nazi Sites



                  Knights of the White Kamelia -- a branch of the KKK; boy are they pissed off!

                  The White Aryan Resistance -- this site by Tom Metzger, possibly America's best-known racist leader, tells what whites must do to defend themselves from the non-white onslaught. Make sure you check out their issue positions.

                  Aryan Nation -- another leading white supremacy group

                  The German National Socialist Party -- the German National Socialists once had a leader that you might have heard of. His name was Adolph Hitler.   
                  Arthur R. Butz -- this associate professor of electrical and computer engineering is the author of The Hoax of the 20th Century, arguing that the Holocaust never happened.

                  CODOH -- Commitee for Open Discussion of the Holocaust

                  Nations of Gods and Earths -- anyone can be a racist. This anti-white site claims that white people were invented by a black scientist 6000 years ago

                  14 Words Press -- What are the 14 words, you ask? "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White Children"

                  America's Invisible Empire, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan -- this group's title is as wordy as they are stupid

                  Stormfront -- "a resource for those courageous men and women fighting to preserve their White Western culture."

                  2.  Whites who teach their kids to feel superior to Blacks (this is where the racism perpetuates)
                  3.  Whites who deny that racism exist


                  There are White people who are honest, decent people who acknowledge racism exist and speak against it.  Many of these White people do things to help defy and defeat racism.

              2. profile image53
                frumpletonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Ok.  It says because the post is over two months old, I shouldn't reply unless I have new information.  What I don't get is, I see stuff written 4 or 5 years ago!  I can answer those.  Doesn't make any sense to me

                1. profile image53
                  frumpletonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  What about women?  They've been slaves for centuries.  Their husbands looked at them as property.  Also, native americans

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    - what are you talking about? Do you know?

            3. jackclee lm profile image75
              jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              It is frustrating for me to not be able to get to first base. How can we make any progress if we can't discuss the issues openly?

          2. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Jack, I'm very open.  Many times, people don't like what others say and an argument starts.  I don't argue.  There are some good people here.  We may disagree but that is how a conversation gets to be productive.  We have to listen to each others point of view and respond honestly.  We should all be respectful.

            Let's do it!!

      4. WordCrafter09 profile image65
        WordCrafter09posted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Apparently, whoever those people in your own circles are (that shut down the conversation) either did not get the memo about free speech, don't understand the concept of it, or just think they have some special claim to decide who talks about what. OR, they  aren't particularly interested in making any progress .  Maybe those people are just aggressive. 

        Then again, in fairness to them (whoever they are in your circles),; if, by any chance, you come across to them as attempting to define their personal, individual, reality/experience by (even appearing to) minimizing it and expecting them to "just move on - and let's never talk about the unpleasantness of your history/roots" then you'd be the one they view as essentially expecting them to shut up and forget that such nastiness ever happened.

        Slavery aside, it's not as if things were all that great, particularly in the American South, as recently as the 1950's/1960's; and it's not as if there aren't plenty of people alive today who recall that time or whose parents/grandparents do   To me, pointing out all the rotten ways so many other groups have treated throughout history misses the point OR expects too much in terms of "that was then/this is now" from people for whom Racial inequality is/has been very much a part of their own and/or family's experience/history.

        I just depends on the individuals in the conversation (as far as who is being more aggressive/arrogant than the other), but I think it also happens when people have the either/or thinking such as, "If you ever mention slavery that must mean you're living in the past and blaming everything on that; while never mentioning it must mean that you don't understand what an awful thing it was".

        Personally, I think either/or thinking that people are supposed to outgrow and/or be taught better about (particularly with regard to communication/conversation) is at the root of a whole lot of issues that are not resolved because people get (as you say) "shut down" if they dare to talk about one or another thing..  Well, it's either "either/or" thinking or else it's one/some people presuming to know better about "how things are" than another/some other people...

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Worldcrafter, you are on point!

          I was born in 1950.  I had to sit on the back of the bus.  I drank from colored fountains and went to colored bathrooms.  Major department stores let colored people shop in the basement only.

          Nuns had us on the floor saying the rosary when a group of white kids chased the Little Rock 9 from Central to St. Bartholomew Elementary School.  When we saw white kids coming, we had to cross the street because we knew they were going to spit on us or call us n*gg*r.  One day a girl said "I'm tired.  I'm not going across the street."  We all crossed and left her.  As white kids approached her and started spitting on her, she pulled out scissors and started swinging.  They chased her and a woman opened her car door to let her in.

          A white lady I worked with asked me to baby sit.  When I pulled up to her house, the 3 kids were frozen as they watched me park  The baby girl was afraid to sleep alone so she asked me to lay beside her.  When I did, she asked, "Are you a n*gg*r?"  The lady was nice at work but it is obvious what she was teaching her children.

      5. RonElFran profile image75
        RonElFranposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Jack, I don't think the problem is that you can't discuss race with black people because you are not black. It’s more that until you demonstrate that you at least comprehend how the world looks to African Americans, who have to deal with race every day of their lives, it’s simply not worthwhile getting into a discussion with you.

        Here’s an example of what I mean. Like you, I worked for IBM. I was a development engineer and manager involved in both hardware and software design. Suppose my team was having difficulty solving some engineering problem, and a visiting marketer who once read a book on digital design wanted to start a discussion on the basic principles he thought we needed to understand in order to solve our technical problem. How much time and energy do you think we would invest in having a “discussion” with that marketer when the very “solutions” he offered demonstrated that he didn’t even comprehend the issues we were dealing with?

        In your “Role Models” hub you say, “As a Conservative, I am baffled by why some in the black community seem to shun black conservatives.” IMO that fact alone demonstrates why you are not being attended to. Until you have listened enough to African Americans that you can answer questions like that in terms of how most black people see the issue (whether you agree with them or not), you are not qualified to offer solutions. Until you demonstrate that you have made the effort to gain real understanding of how African Americans see the issues you want to discuss, it’s just not worth the time, energy and frustration required to first educate you before you are in a position to offer relevant input.

        1. Credence2 profile image82
          Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Ron, he is making progress. It is always difficult to put put yourself in another man's shoes. Since you both worked for the same employer, are there instances where race related matters affected your career with "Big Blue"?

        2. jackclee lm profile image75
          jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I am open to educating myself on this any time. I like to know what is it about the black experience that makes things so different. My proposed solution in general are color blind. I would tell the same advice to people of all races. That is the Conservative position. Please educate me...I really want to learn.

          1. RonElFran profile image75
            RonElFranposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Jack, I'd like to suggest an article that I think begins to answer your questions about why the African American experience is different and why blacks don't gravitate toward Conservatives/Republicans. I think it gives some insight into the fact that sociological studies show that that somewhere between one-fourth and one-third of African Americans identify themselves as conservative, yet practically none of them vote Republican.

            The author is a conservative black PhD student writing in the conservative National Review magazine. I don't agree with everything he says, but I think it's a very thoughtful and mostly valid analysis.

            The article is entitled "Yes, Republicans Can Win Black Voters" and can be seen at http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 … id=1519002

            It's a long article, but here's several paragraphs to give you a flavor of what it has to say:

            "There is no disputing … the GOP has a problem connecting with black voters. . . GOP attempts at black outreach are inconsistent and repeatedly undone by inadvisable strategic communication choices and a basic callousness about the black experience in America. Jeb Bush’s recent comment that he would give African Americans “hope and aspiration” instead of bribing them with “free stuff” is a prime example. This sentiment — one that casts the black electorate as a soulless and indolent bloc up for sale to the highest bidder — is as pervasive among some Republicans as it is spurious.

            "Black voters remained true to their principles of civil-rights protections above all else. . . blacks supported Democrats because the Democratic party fought for equality and civil rights in the face of Republican opposition, exemplified by Barry Goldwater’s vocal disapproval of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

            "Remove civil rights as an issue and blacks will be more inclined to support the party that best represents their other interests."

            1. jackclee lm profile image75
              jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Ron, thanks for the referenced article. It was a long piece and I just read it. I see what it is saying and I agree. That is what I've been pushing all along. I am a conservative and I strongly believe conservative principles (not Republican) will be better for our government and for individuals of all races. I had hope we would get past the color issue by now but it should not matter. A good principle should win out based on merit along. If it can work for me, and it can work for Dr. Carson, there is no reason it can't work for anyone else.

        3. jackclee lm profile image75
          jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Ron good to here from you. I am glad you made the effort to read my other hub. I want to address your criticism of my approach. What I tried to communicate is that role models matters... What I stated is a fact. When black conservatives succeed, they are not treated as heros or role models and are attacked as uncle Tom... This has been true for a very long time. Where as, Jackson and Sharpton has profitted personally from their race stirring and yet the people they claim to help have not improved under their so called leadership. This by the way is happening with the assisstance of the main street media who give them the attemtion they don't deserve. I am open to further discussion on this if you like.
          I also propose real solutions that will help. I am not just complaining but offer real concrete steps young people can take to improve themselves...as a retired IBMer, I have traveled all over the world and believe it or not, our country is the best in the world by far, despite our past shortcomings. This is a testament to our people and our Constitution and our character and our goodness.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Jackclee, I must agreee with ronelfan.  You sound like you have made yourself an expert on a subject you know nothing about.  That can sound very offensive to some people.  I'm glad you chose to discuss your position here. 

            I appreciate everyone for not getting angry.  It doesn't matter if I agree with you.  I appreciate the dialog.

            1. jackclee lm profile image75
              jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I'll be happy to learn what you want to teach me. What I need is also a proposed solution. Don't tell me there is none. If that's the case, there is no point discussing anything. If you present your ideas, I can argue the good and the bad and present my ideas...You can do the same with my ideas. That is how we make progress. We take the problem and dissect it and let the merit of the solutions be the guide.
              I am a pragmatist. That means I want to see solutions. I don't mind if it cost money. I just want to see positive results. If liberal progressive have a good idea, I will consider it and support it. However, the past has not been good on that front. The very policies have lead to the downfall of many communities including the blacks. Show me where these policies have worked?

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                1.  Girls, all enthnicities, should stop have babies before they can afford to care for them.
                2.  Society should stop allowing sexual behavior to be the focus.  It's everywhere.
                     a.  Actresses and other social elite have have babies they can afford to take care of (Kourtney Kardashian, Jessica Simpson, etc.) AND they can afford them.
                      b.  Inner city youth see it as acceptable because of what they see.  I was told I can't have students
                           they shouldn't have sex.  I could tell them they should use birth control.
                3.  Mothers on welfare must be required to work and balance the welfare check with their pay checks.
                4.  School rules should be followed (vulgar dress, electronic devices, gang attire, etc.)
                5.  Parents should be required to visit classrooms and attend PTA (unless they are working)  Possibly have 2 PTAs (1 for day parents/1 for night parents
                6.  Police should be required to get to know the community they work in (some communities are successfuly doing this now.  I saw it on Dr. Phil.
                7.  Community businesses should be given tax breaks for hiring people in the community.
                8.  Kids should have programs available after school that will teach them team spirit, collaborative skills, confidence, leadership and analytical skills.  There are many fun activities that teach these.
                9.  Teachers should be appreciated, rather than blamed because students do not come to school ready to learn.  They come with nasty secrets (molestation and other abuse, homeless, hungry, moving 2 or 3 times during the school year - things people who criticize teachers DON"T KNOW)
                10.  Possibly have uniforms and separate classes for boys and girls

                The majority of inner city school problems start with parenting problems.

                1. jackclee lm profile image75
                  jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I agree with everyone of your proposals... That being said, where are the politicians on this? the teacher's unions? the caring parents?
                  My ideas and proposals are not much different. It starts with discipline within the home.  A home with two parents preferably married.
                  A government that will not reward bad behavior with welfare checks...
                  How about some positive role models.
                  Where are the successful blacks that have made it and give back to the community? with a helping hand.

                  1. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    You won't hear of most of them because they are ordinary people trying to make a difference.  They are not interesting enough to cover on nation-wide tv. or world-wide internet.

                    Also, you don't hear of the Black kids who graduate #1 in their classes.  I post them on my Facebook page when I find them.  Have you heard of the Black boys school in Chicago where all of the senior class was accepted into college for three years straight.  That's not news.  Just checked - 7th year in a row

                    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/100 … 9df6aa5aaa  It would help for this to blow up on the internet.

                    People want to hear about gang fights, shootings, etc.

                    I could post links to many, many Black kids who graduated with a 4.0 and a high SAT score, graduated from high school at 15, graduated from college at 19 but that is not interesting.

                2. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  "Possibly have uniforms and separate classes for boys and girls."
                  Yes, perhaps so. This suggestion is ahead of its time.

                  1. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Yeah, no one listened to me.  I was too old.  What did I know?

                  2. jackclee lm profile image75
                    jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    When I was going to school on Taiwan in the 1960s, everyone wore uniforms. It was a good policy.

            2. jackclee lm profile image75
              jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              By the way, In my various hubs, I actually present solution proposals.
              http://hubpages.com/politics/Improving- … ca_Hubbook

              Take any of my ideas and tell me why they are wrong? or missed the mark?
              Let's get specific. I'll take on any topic you choose. If I don't know the answer, I will do the research and get a solution. The answers may not always be what you want to hear...

              1. jackclee lm profile image75
                jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Diane, why don't we make it easier to move forward. Why don't you list 3 things that you think I don't get about the black community?
                I'll take those into consideration.
                If I am wrong, I will readily admit it and appolgize.
                If, perhaps, I do know what I'm talking about, from my 60+ years of life experience, and world travels, would you at least consider what I am proposing and not dismiss them?
                I think this a fair arraangement.

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I hope I gave you enough points to discuss.  You don't need experience from all over the world to deal with people, some of which have never been to the beach.  Many haven't been outside their local living area.

                  There have been many Black entertainers that left the United States because of prejudice and had successful careers in Europe.

                  As an African American I feel the vision has been lost from when I grew up.  We were always asked what we wanted to be when we grew up, get an education so we wouldn't have to wash and clean for white people, and get an education so you can take care of yourself rather than depend on a no good man.  Young Black people have no idea of what we went through.  Many in the inner city aspire to be rappers.  It is so frustrating.

        4. jackclee lm profile image75
          jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Ron, I wrote a new hub in response to your comments.
          http://hubpages.com/politics/If-I-was-a … in-America

          Please educate me as to what I'm not getting from a Black perspective.
          What proposed solutions are in error in your opinion?

          How would I do differently, if I was black?

          I really like to understand.
          All my life, I never let race be my only perception. I prefer to be color blind like MLK...

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
            Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Read about what happened to the black culture after it was released from slavery!!!! Thats all you need to do! This is where we, society, dropped the ball. Whoever can recommend books / literature regarding this time in history, it would be greatly appreciated.

            1. jackclee lm profile image75
              jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Please explain. I must have missed that in my American History class. What happened that would prevent today's blacks from doing what I propose?

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Read!!!! GO back in time and put yourself in the position of being newly released from slavery!!!
                You have been nothing but a worker. Your mind is uncultivated. Your hands know only labor. Your body knows only obedience and whippings. Your soul knows only the love of your wife, kids and friends who are also used, abused and disrespected and removed from you at whim. You have been treated worse than the family dog. WORSE!!!! 

                Now some of the more advanced slave owners kept families together and fed them well, but those were probably few and far between… 

                And then you are declared free. You have no idea how to make money, how to find shelter for yourself, how to get work and how to survive. You have been kept in the dark.  Now you must live in the light of freedom and independence … with a   M I N D   that has never learned how to survive on its own. And then add the human frailty toward prejudice, anger, confusion as far as white acceptance of blacks and having to deal with these reactions. It's not hard to understand.

                And that was not that long ago in the scheme of things. 
                On the other hand, that was a pretty long time ago.
                Freedom, protected by the Constitution and guaranteed for ALL, has been very beneficial to a great many.

                1. jackclee lm profile image75
                  jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes, that happened 150 years ago. What does that have to do with what is going on now?
                  If I remembber my Bible study, the Jews were enslaved for generations in Egypt...
                  They seem to thrive today. What's the difference?

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Jew have their issues too. It is hard to get away from the past. It can be done. It must be done. It's up to individual families. They must overcome negativity. They allow themselves to be enslaved and affected by a negative mindset. It is purely imaginary, however. That is the amazing thing. They have the key to freedom and positivity and self empowerment but they don't know it. It is the problem of passing these things on generation after generation. The key of course is in realizing one's true nature: Pure and whole and a child of God. Education, self education, love of life and having interests, obtaining the skills necessary to survive in the world ... these things can be focused on. Its up to individuals, their families and their communities. I'm not advocating segregation at all. Communities  generally love their own no matter who is in it.
                    TWISI

                  2. Credence2 profile image82
                    Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Jack, 150 years is a little different from 3-4 millennia ago.

                    If you are trying to get us all to admit that we bear some of the blame for our situation in AMERICA, you are right. But, while we bear some of the blame, we shouldn't and do not bear all of it.

                    In America, Jews are basically white people, making their assimilation and acceptance within the general population far easier.

      6. profile image52
        Setank Setunkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Please don't take offense Jackclee, but when I read your comment this is what I heard: I am trying hard to pander to the race issue and convey my empathy towards AAs but they do not accept me: what's wrong with them?

        1. jackclee lm profile image75
          jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I'm sorry you got that feeling but you are wrong.
          I am not pandering to anyone. As a Conservative, I have my principles.
          I am honestly trying to find a solution to our race problem that seems to never get resolved.
          I could easily drop this and ignore it like so many others...
          I am retired, living in the suburbs, far from the problems that plague the inner cities.
          I am financially secure and could easily spend all time playing golf and traveling and enjoy my hard earned retirement.
          I do some of that but I also love to write and love to tackle problems...
          If you read some of my hubs, I write about many topics and I have a whole hubbook on ideas of fixing things that are broken...
          I am working on another hub that addresses what a poor youth can do today.

          The problem seems to me to be tow fold. A society that is too timid to touch this topic, like the third rail.
          And, the people who are most affected, the blacks. Some of whom refused to allow any conversation or suggestions for moving forward. They harp on the slavery and the injustices of the past which happened over 150 years ago.
          What I try to do is to not so much forget the past but forgive the past. In addition, how do we move forward to improve the situation. There is no good reason that in 2016, some people and kids have to live in fear of gun shots and violence and drugs and gangs in their neighborhoods.
          How do we help those people move out of that environment?
          There is an answer, but unfortunately, it is drowned out by BLM and OCW and the Rainbow Coalition... Meanwhile, real Conservatives like the people who I cited as role models are not b wing heard.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
            Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            "They harp on the slavery and the injustices of the past which happened over 150 years ago.
            What I try to do is to not so much forget the past but forgive the past. In addition, how do we move forward to improve the situation.

                *There is no good reason that in 2016, some people and kids have to live in fear of gun shots and    violence and drugs and gangs in their neighborhoods."
            +1

            There must be some BAD reason… lets look at that!!!!!!

            Good isolating the difficulty, Jackclee Im!

          2. profile image52
            Setank Setunkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            At the end of the 2nd World War hundreds of thousands of highly skilled Black workers were laid off :  Replaced by Whites returning from the war. Twenty years later forced integration ended 4 decades of slow but evolving movement towards true equality and put fifty-thousand highly educated Black teachers and professors out of work. 150 years ago what?
            Today the AA Community is being exploited for use as a voting block instead of a cheap labor force, and no-one including Liberals want to address the real problem.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Please address the real problem.  I'd love to hear it.

              1. profile image52
                Setank Setunkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                1.1 trillion dollars in direct compensation for AA's born on or before December 31st 1964. 2.7 trillion in funding for re-establishment of families and extended families, including relocation and property awards as options.
                Why? To finish what was left undone 150 years ago and the injustice and repression that has persisted. I Love your posts DT.

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  You are too kind Setank!  Thank you!

                  I've got to marinade on this for a while.  I'll get back to you.

                  1. profile image52
                    Setank Setunkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Yummy, marinade, now I'm hungry.
                    I just got my first hub published: Would you PLEASE go to it and give me your feed back. Does it suck or not suck. It is in Political Corruption. I don't know how to do those blue clicky things yet. The title is RNC, DNC Corruption.

                  2. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    If anything is given, at all, I think there should be guidelines.  Money should not be put in the hands of people who will blow it away.  If the money would have given at the time it was proposed, the United States could be a different place.

                    Any money should for 1) education, 2) thoroughly planned and efficiently run businesses, 3) jobs, 4) monitored rehabilitation, and 5) revitalization of blighted areas.

                    I won't say much more.  I don't want to be accused of asking for reparations.  Neither do I want to put a lot of though into "pie in the sky."

                    Responsibility should be the theme

            2. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I was unaware of these things that happened after World War 2.  Thank you!  i will check them out.

              The voting block thing does not work for me.  I do know what you are talking about.  It's like someone tells us all what to think.  I know there are some churches that are used for political platforms.  It's amazing how politicians are allowed to speak to the congregations during the church services.

              I don't attend churches like that.  i am an independent thinker.

              1. profile image52
                Setank Setunkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Nothing insidious meant. AA's, Evangelicals, Latinos, College Students, and even Women in general are all considered voting blocks. But the corrupt political process of generic labeling and division is a subject for another blog.

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't remember what you said that you think is offensive.  I've learned to not get upset because it affects rationale.  Don't worry about it.

                  It annoys me that people go to church for status and power rather than a relationship with God.  That was my point.

            3. Credence2 profile image82
              Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I don't consider myself exploited, I have plenty of good reasons to consistently avoid the GOP and conservative ideology.

      7. MelangeSpace1 profile image40
        MelangeSpace1posted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I feel like "people of color" shut down with the topic of race not due to the color of the person's skin who is asking or brought up the topic, but because of the pain that was never healed that still lurks within. Especially since to most people of color, the issue still exist. I think a good place to start for non colored people interested in making an attempt to get over that conversational hurdle would be too start with - "I'm sorry!"..... I'm sorry for what my ancestors have done and for what you are still dealing with regarding racial discrimination"....... and them proceed to discuss. Years and generations of pain cannot be approached with any expectation, only with an open ear and heart, and the willingness to sympathize and help make it better.

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Hi Melange!  I have known white people to do that.  It tore down an imaginery wall that really needed to be down for an open discussion.  I think we shouldn't approach white people in anger because that cause that wall to turn to steel for some people.  By doing that, you place the person on defensive and the discussion shifts to "I didn't do it!", "You are a part of it!", etc.

          That is an intimate discussion that can better take place once you have gotten to know some one.  You trust each other on one level but not completely.  Over time, going through things, a trust relationship can develop to lead to such a discussion.

          I'm thinking I should have elaborated on what I consider a productive discussion.  It's good to get history out because that sets the background; however, it seems like we devolve into sarcasm sometimes.

          I see you are from the Carribbean.

      8. profile image0
        ValKarasposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        When we keep touching wounds, we don't allow them to heal  -  and that's in the nutshell my message in my hub "Historical Neuroticism". It's defying the model of psychoanalysis, where the sufferers keep digging into their past and re-experiencing the past trauma, while hoping that such action will set them free.
        Well, African Americans are not likely to snap out of slavery, at least in their minds and hearts for as long as they keep discussing it. Racism was an idiocy of some generations that are gone forever, just like what Hitler's Germany did to Jews is not the part of our present reality..
        I personally find strange the idea that nowadays Caucasians should feel "ashamed", or "guilty" for racism. In a way it's also ridiculous, because in that case they would feel guilt for something that they didn't do.
        Reasoning like that is similar to the one about French folks feeling "guilty" for what Napoleon did to Europe. So, if we can move on with life in case of  a Napoleon, an Attila the Hun, a Hitler, and other power hungry idiots of history  -  why do we have to feel so stuck with racism?
        No one is saying that it should be "forgotten". Just like in an individual case of an adult with bad childhood memories  -  he doesn't have to start "denying" those traumatic experiences as past events of his life, but he doesn't have to let them contaminate his positive emotional involvement with his world.
        I honestly can't see the point of suffering on behalf African ancestors, or blaming the present Caucasians for something that their ancestors did. Racism is an idiocy of those who are probably accepting as true those jokes about "stupid blondes".
        As long as we have someone like Obama in White House, and someone like Oprah Winfrey being one of the richest women in the world  -  no one can pin racism on Caucasians of 21st century. Why perpetuate the spirit of slavery by talking about it? Can this world yank itself out from the stranglehold of our stupid history and start proving that we can do better? Can we stop playing on "poor-me" card and advance ourselves to a level where skin colors don't matter, like Obama did, like Oprah did, and so many other successful Africa Americans did? If they did not obsess about history  -  not that they didn't know it  -  why should all the others? What's the emotional pay-off?

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Val, it sounds like you are equating slavery with racism.  They are not the same.  Racism is alive today.  A prime example is the topic I started with.  Michelle Obama talked about living in the White House which was built by slaves.  Immediately O'Reilly didn't want to accept that. 

          When he saw that slaves were involved, he then said, a) they ate good, b) the accommodations were good, and c) they were paid.  Slaves were not paid; their owners were paid.  You only need to go to Monticello to see how they lived.  They ate left overs.  That's how we started eating chitterlings, chicken feet, hog testicles, etc.


          One only need look at the comments under articles on the internet to see racist comments made.  If you'd like I can pull up examples.

          I didn't want this to be about slavery.  I wanted it to be about racism.  KKK   David Duke  Alt Right
          You can't forget what you face on a daily basis.  The intelligent thing to do is deal with it. 

          Unfortunately, what is denied cannot be corrected.  An alcoholic has to admit that he is an alcoholic to get help.  When I was young, I resolved to get a good education and be independent.  That doesn't protect me from racism.  It does help me to deal with it in an intellient manner.  As I go through various challenges, I trust God who goes through the crises with me.  I recognize that the evil is a heart matter.  I can't change how someone else acts.  I can change my response.

          1. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Diane, what was it you told me once? You were hired as one of the first Black employees at a major firm, as an accountant. This was supposed to be a big deal and your qualifications were always suspect by your peers even though you had a college degree and most of them did not. None of that seem relevant to them. I went through the same circumstance when I was first hired for my upward mobility position.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Not even accountant Credence2.  "Accounting assistant" was what I was hired as.  A white colleague told me "You should be glad you have a job."  She was proud that she had the job.  She had graduated high school - no college.

              1. Credence2 profile image82
                Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                No one ever considers the possibility that you could have higher expectations because you were better educated and better prepared?

                This came in the other day that sheds a little light on this in a tangential way.

                I have a sister who married a heir to a prominent retail outlet, no longer in business, but whose name everybody would know instantly.

                His mother recently died and he had written an article about her participation in the sport of badminton, (for example). The article is ok, but would have a narrow audience, naturally. But, he told me that the article was to be published in "badminton today", the prominent publication for the sport's aficionados.

                I told him that even if I wrote a similar account that was better than his, nobody is interested in Credence2's mother. The only reason he gets published was due to his celebrity and that of his family. And the biggest shock is that neither he nor my sister gave that any thought to that possibility. Much of this is just an example of the unspoken reality behind much of our current debate.

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  so true!

          2. profile image0
            ValKarasposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Diane  -  I certainly empathize with you and with every black person who encountered problems generated by racism. However, if we would care to look at the broader picture, we might see nearly as many dramas as there are people, regardless of their skin color.
            At times we get to witness how a white dude who doesn't make it in life gets called "a loser", while the black dude of the equal misfortune gets called "a victim of a predominantly white society". You show me a black person "who didn't get a job", and I'll show you a white one who didn't get it. My wife worked in a bank for 30 years and in quite a few occasions a black person would ask her to "bend the rules for her"  -  and when my wife refused, the woman said "I know, it's because I am black".
            We could only afford two children, while it's a trend for black women to have several without the father anywhere around to support them  -  so guess what, they will get a welfare, and statistically it's more likely for them to qualify than for a white person.
            Am I by any chance talking like a "racist" here? I hope not, because there is no racist bone in me. I am simply saying that hardships in life are universal, not merely traceable to racism, and that sentiment of victimhood is not either, because many folks of all races feel that society and politicians are ignoring their needs.
            It's just too simple and easy to put a label on the source of our suffering.
            Again, yes, racism exists  -  maybe not only one way either.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I do believe you do not have to be white to be a racist.

              You came late to the conversation.  We've been going for over a month.
              1.  Numerically, there are more white people on welfare than Black people.
              2.  Numerically, there are moer white people on food stamps than Black people.
              http://madamenoire.com/515370/stereotyp … ps-blacks/

              3.  When we discuss race, what is the import of welfare programs.
                    I hate to rehash - My dad with 8th grade education prided himself on taking care of his family working on steady job and odd jobs to make sure the bills were paid.

              4.  When there are problems to be solved, the best way to do it is to get to the root of the problem.
                   There may be 100,000 unemployed people.  They are not all unemployed for the same reasons.

              5.  People who are not racist don't have to say it.  The way they handle a discussion speaks volumes.

              I responded to what you wrote.  Your response in turn has me baffled.  The majority, if not all, of the people in this discussion have college educations at a minimum.  Racism should not be restricted to the unqualified Black people that just want handouts.  There are those of all colors who want handouts.

              1. profile image0
                ValKarasposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Diane  -  I wish I could understand how is that argument about "my coming  late to the discussion" relevant, or even proving me wrong.

                It's even harder to understand what the educational level of the participants has to do with anything  -  unless you are implying that educational level is an automatic proof of "being right", which would be quite snobbish, don't you think so?

                Furthermore, why are you mentioning your father and his supporting the family? Is that supposed to be taken as "typical", or what was the other purpose of it?
                Then, the fact that there are "more white folks on welfare than blacks" says nothing, as the total number of blacks is only a fraction of the population.

                By the way, yes, it IS necessary for one to emphasize that they are not racist  -  otherwise they may quickly "become one" by merely asking some uncomfortable questions.

                And finally, I am gracefully and respectfully removing myself from any further participation  -  and your being "baffled" by my responses is giving me a hint that I won't be missed. This way you may continue to hear more of what you prefer hearing. Wishing you the best  -  Val

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Val, Don't be so sensitive

                  I think I need to copy/past to respon appropriately

                  You wrote
                  Diane  -  I certainly empathize with you and with every black person who encountered problems generated by racism. However, if we would care to look at the broader picture, we might see nearly as many dramas as there are people, regardless of their skin color.

                  At times we get to witness how a white dude who doesn't make it in life gets called "a loser", while the black dude of the equal misfortune gets called "a victim of a predominantly white society". You show me a black person "who didn't get a job", and I'll show you a white one who didn't get it.

                  My response
                  Your 2nd paragraph shows that you clearly don't understand.  The example Credence2 had me restate was about my job as an accounting assistant.  My co-worker - white, high school education
                  me - Black, BBA in Business administration and 15 hours of accounting

                  You wrote
                  My wife worked in a bank for 30 years and in quite a few occasions a black person would ask her to "bend the rules for her"  -  and when my wife refused, the woman said "I know, it's because I am black".

                  My response
                  "bend the rules for her" - I remembered as a handout  I addressed it below

                  You wrote
                  We could only afford two children, while it's a trend for black women to have several without the father anywhere around to support them  -  so guess what, they will get a welfare, and statistically it's more likely for them to qualify than for a white person.

                  My response
                  This sounds like welfare.  I have never had children.  That's why I quoted statistics below

                  You wrote
                  Am I by any chance talking like a "racist" here? I hope not, because there is no racist bone in me. I am simply saying that hardships in life are universal, not merely traceable to racism, and that sentiment of victimhood is not either, because many folks of all races feel that society and politicians are ignoring their needs.

                  My response
                  This sounds like a dismissal of my reality.  I do not consider myself a victim and am proud of my accomplishments. 

                  You wrote
                  It's just too simple and easy to put a label on the source of our suffering.
                  Again, yes, racism exists  -  maybe not only one way either.

                  My response
                  This sounds like I am unable to identify the source when I am hearing specific words, identifying symptoms and making informed opinions.  That is what you are taught to do in college and job professional development.  In order to make decisions on jobs, especially dealing with other people, you have to have the critical thinking skills to make those assessments.

                  You can forget this part.  I wrote it before I decided to copy/paste/respond
                  Coming late - That means I am repeating myself to others

                  educational level - That was with regard to qualifications.  Your wife worked at the bank.  A lot of Black people came wanted special consideration -

                  welfare - I thought you brought up welfare.  If you didn't, I'm sorry.

                  My father working - He was an honest, hard working man who took care of his family and all attendant responsibiities.  He didn't want "handout"  He did raise us to want handouts.

                  We are supposed to have a productive discussion.  I attempted to move us from slavery because I didn't want anyone to feel that this was about slavery.  I want us to discuss the last 100 years (I think that was Wilderness' idea.  I think it is a great idea.)

                  I would like for you to stay.  But please understand that each of us have our own reality.  Credence2 and I met at odds on another issue.  We don't agree on everything but we understand each other.
                  Same with Live and Wilderness.  We all have our own quirks.

                  I might go overboard in explaining but that is part of who I am.  Chunk-chew-check is the new term but music teachers have done this for years.

                  It concerns me when people say, "color doesn't matter!" when they have not experienced living in color.

                  It concerns me when people say, "get over it!" when there are people who interact with me in ways to demonstrate that they think "I am less than or not as smart."

                  I can't dismiss the reality of my life and I am not complaining about it.  I explain how I deal with the reality.

                  1. profile image0
                    ValKarasposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Diane  -  Let me start with your last sentence : "I explain how I deal with the reality".
                    Without trying to sound too philosophical about it (I like thinking of myself as a pragmatic dude)  -  what the heck is "reality", Diane, other than someone's mind construct? Since two people can't agree about what it is  - and this discussion is somewhat proving it -  its true meaning is up for grabs.
                    Late Robbin Williams said it prophetically : "Reality? Hmmm, an interesting concept". For concept it is, and our linear minds can only conceptualize about things, not grasp their essence. 
                    What "racism" may mean to you  -  according to your personal experience is pretty much locked within that experience, because no one else had in their life an exact copy of it  - since you are not a duplicate of anybody else.
                    So, at our best we can philosophize ad nauseam about an abstract, "generalized racism", hoping that we are talking about the same thing.
                    To me, racism might as well be just a state of mind that's a subject to my ability to transcend it into an opportunity, maybe even a challenge to show the world what metal I am made of. Because that's the ultimate parameter of my evaluating my status in this world  -  how people's reactions to me can make me grow. Not cataloging an inventory of how they may be hurting me.
                    That's why you see me throwing into this discussion this radical assertion about a self-destructive motive behind listing down all perils and evils of racism.
                    In the good tradition of my favorite est (Erhard Seminars Training) position, I am tempted to ask a black sufferer : Why are you doing it to yourself? For no one can walk into your brain to push some buttons there and tell you how you should feel about yourself as a black person  -  it's all of your own make.

                    Now, Diane, are you still sure you want me to stay here in this discussion?

        2. Credence2 profile image82
          Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Val, Obama and Oprah were successful inspite of racism. You speak of it as if it no longer exists, but alas, it is still here.

          That does not mean that racism cannot be overcome, but it takes energy. Comparable to escaping the earth's gravitational well. But, I may be exaggerating a bit, but you get the point. We get tired of having to climb Mt Everest, when others just have to step over the local ant hill to reap the same outcome.

          1. profile image0
            ValKarasposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Credence  -  Of course racism still exists, but my point was that without slavery or social obstacles to anyone's success it's more of a "phantom of the past" hanging around promoted by those whose opinion shouldn't be taken seriously. To borrow my mentioned parallel with blondes  -  should every blond woman develop an inferiority complex because there are jokes made about them? Or, should every Democrat feel "threatened" because there are folks of conservative orientation around? Likewise, if someone gives you a bad comment on your hub, because you are not writing "to his literary taste"  -  should you stop writing altogether, or even try to write for his taste?
            My point is that we can't please everyone in this world with our looks, minds, our singing voice, etc.  -  but that should not be a signal to us that "something is wrong with us". Racism is a nonsense, and it should be treated that way, not given so much publicity as it is enjoying.

            1. Credence2 profile image82
              Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Val, thanks for your sane and reasoned dialogue here.

              We have a major party presidential candidate that uses these abrasive issues to promote his campaign. And he seems to be doing quite well. That's a 'big opinion' and I have to take it seriously.

              The issue is more about the 'attitudes', the racially based presumptions we make about one another that influences our behavior toward each other.

              I have worked hard to not allow racism to become a crux or excuse for my not achieving my objectives, but I would be dishonest if I did not say that it played the role as substantial headwinds during the journey.

              You seem to imply that the concept is just incidental, I am saying that it more substantial than that, based on my experience.

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I think it is hard for one to comprehend who has not been through it or witnessed it.  Because I lived in the Jim Crow south, I met white people who were perceptive and able to see racism taking place.  I wrote about my beloved Ida Webb Moose who helped me on my journey.  She made it a mission to hire Black girls to work on her college work-study program.

                Many who saw what she was doing were furious.  A Black man who was Director of Office of Economic Opportunity used to park behind my car in the morning.  I had to wait for him to move his car in order for me to go to my college classes.  The Director of Education had the goverment to do an audit on the College Work-Study Program because they couldn't understand what she was doing.

        3. MelangeSpace1 profile image40
          MelangeSpace1posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          i like this response! i concur...

        4. Live to Learn profile image59
          Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I agree with most of what you said but the emotional payoff you ask about is quite heady. The one who continuously wants to ensure everyone understands they are descended from the bloodline which was wronged in the past can claim everything from a moral high ground by 'forgiving us' (as if we bear some guilt) to justifying not succeeding in life.

          And, if you aren't a blood relative you can join the bandwagon by just crying along. And the great thing is those of us with mixed blood can reap the benefits as well by choosing to identify with only one of our ancestral bloodlines.

          There can be a downside but as long as you ride the wave of moral superiority by being distantly related to someone wronged you get to feel as if you are special because someone, somewhere, sometime in the distant past who you can reasonably assume you might be related to got shafted by life.

        5. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13188635.jpg
          Apparently it is impossible for many of you here to present an argument without first erecting a strawman to pin it on. I am an educated, and successful person. And on this count, I am not unique among the minority community. With the encouragement of my parents, I have been a student of Indigenous and Black History since before the age of puberty. I am obviously articulate, I have succeeded as a professional musician, which is a very challenging occupation, I have traveled around the world , and I have enjoyed the attention of many beautiful women, as well as many women who were not so beautiful, but also deserving of good company.  Recognizing the evil of systemic racism has improved my self-esteem, as I can hold my head up, knowing that I have not made a fool of myself, or dishonored my ancestors by embracing an evil empire. Understanding the evil of America has only made me stronger, and more determined to free all men, white and black, from mental slavery.  Because once the mind is free, the rest is sure to follow.

          As I have already commented earlier, evil does not come to men of goodwill as a matter of karmic debt, but evil comes of it's own accord. The African and the Indigenous do not magically manifest racism simply through the remembrance of an old misery. Nor do they manifest racism by shouting it from the rooftops. Such a nonsensical belief is itself a racist notion. You have attempted to equate an existential personal trauma with the effects of systemic racism. It really doesn't matter how someone feels about themselves, how much love they have in their heart, or how intelligent and motivated they are. If they are living in a racist society, it is that society which determines the flow of money, where the person shall live, and the frequency and severity of mental and physical abuse.

          Racism is Satanic in origin, and is manifested from the heart of white America.  And racism continues to be perpetuated by white Americans against both the African and the Indigenous. It is the white man who continues to suffer from this disease, which is why I have brought the medicine here. But their are many today who are sowing the seeds of deception in an attempt to perpetuate the racist myth that the darker races are weak minded, unable to overcome the past, and unable to compete with the "superior" white race. But in this thread I have continued to expose this fallacy.

          Not one of my opponents have been able to provide an intelligent argument to refute the truth I have so generously, and without appropriate compensation, delivered. Oh Yes! They are quite adept when it comes to hurling insults in my direction. But their rebuttals, are filled with strawmen, and the predictable racist perspectives that have been making the rounds for many years. And now I see you have entered the fray as the "voice of reason" ...  with your "scientific proof". Your commentary reminds of a man who is suffering from a heart attack being told how he can improve his condition by switching to Crest, and brushing his teeth after every meal! For $500.00, I'll take: Is there a place the sun doesn't shine?

          1. wilderness profile image78
            wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Well, if nothing else that "scientific proof" is far superior to the faux "truth" that only those with white skin can be racists.  THAT one is obviously no more than a rationalized excuse for exhibiting racism without being labeled a racist. 

            There are indeed many that are "sowing the seeds of deception" in order to perpetuate racism.

            1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
              wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Unlike many of the cowards I have encountered  throughout my life. I do not need an excuse to hide behind. This thread is about discussing racism. As I have stated, the color of racism is white. Not just here in America, but throughout the world, as the architects of racism (The European Aristocracy and the Catholic Church) were also white. I had nothing to do with that, nor do the frail sensibilities of many white Americans keep me awake at night.

              Since the African and the Indigenous were strong enough to survive and thrive after over 500 years of white racist oppression, then white America will have to be strong enough to listen to the details, at least for the next 500 years. Trust and believe, there are many in the movement who are bound,determined, and dedicated to the cause of de-colonization. We do not really care who apologizes, or how guilty anyone feels. We are in the process of reclaiming our identity. America has nothing to do with who we are, and we will be here long after America  has turned to rust.

    2. Credence2 profile image82
      Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I listened to Bill 'oReilly's discussions of this I did not get the impression that he was an advocate of slavery, just quoting what is was that George Washington had written regards to how the White House was built. I usually am not much for O'Reilly, as much of his commentary is BS. But, I won't castigate him, if he does not deserve it.

      As for slavery, I have forgiven, but I can more forget than to expect the Jews to forget the Nazi haulocast, if for no other reason than to prevent its reenactment in a future time.

      1. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Hi Credence2!  Good to hear from you!

        What gave me pause is that there was disbelief that the slaves were involved?  Whenever there was manual labor, that was what the slaves were for?

        I don't know what George Washington considered eating good or having good accommodations.  They thought so little of slaves that whatever was good enough for slaves but I'm sure would not have been suitable for the slave owners.

        1. Credence2 profile image82
          Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Ditto, Diane, pretty gutsy of you to offer this thread. Also, you have attracted some good participation. This is the place to be honest and candid and keep it all above board.

          George Washington probably indicated that the slave labor was treated as well as in at the time in the completion of their task. How good that was can only be evaluated when compared with other sort of laborers.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            smile

            Thank you, Credence2~

    3. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
      wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13126765.jpg

      I'm posting this in response to a common racist myth that black people "just can't make it, but everybody else can". Historically, black people have  been disproportionately in the lower income brackets simply because of institutionalized racism. The Irish, the Chinese, and no other group, save for the First Nations, has ever been discriminated against more than black people.

      In the mind of the white mainstream, the media has served to make the black experience synonymous with the inner city ghetto. But in reality, that is only one aspect of the black experience. I grew up in a farming community in the mid-west. A great majority of the black people there were farmers. Others worked in factories, or meat packing plants. I knew very few black families who were poor. I had black relatives who were farmers. Most of them lived in nice houses surrounded by acres and acres of farm land. I remember going to black churches as a child. Bethel AME, and a Church of God In Christ. The parking lots of the churches were always filled with shiny new cars, and it was rare to see anyone pull up in a junker.

      The latter church was always packed, and sometimes it got so loud the church would start to vibrate, as if it was a rocket on a launching pad about to take off. It was a wonderful experience for a child, because I was fascinated with music and rhythm at an early age. Many of the black farmers listened to country music as much as they listened to Marvin Gaye. And except for the color of their skin, it was hard to distinguish some of them from the rednecks. The point is, the stereotypes of black people that have been promoted in the media have permeated the consciousness of the white mainstream, and have created the myth that "black people just can't make it".

      My experience reveals just the opposite. I understand that when doors are opened, black people can do as well, if not better than anyone else. I am reminded of an old James Brown song: "I don't want nobody to give me nothing. Open up the door, I'll get it myself!" Furthermore, there are more poor white people in the United States than any other race. Why can't they make it? The answer is very simple. Many people, white and black, can't make it because the system we are living in is not designed that way. In a Capitalist system there will always be haves and have nots. If everybody was rich, then nobody would be rich, and the pyramid would fall down. It is an evil system that needs to be replaced. I have met very few poor people, black or white, who were lazy and simply didn't want to work. That is another myth. Poor people don't want to be poor. The very notion is absurd.

      Here are just a few examples of affluent black communities that we never hear about in the mainstream media:

      •In Union Dale, a suburb of New York City, the average family income is $76,553.According to the 2000 census, the population was 23,011, consisting of 55.53% African American / Latino 22.86%

      •In Friendly Maryland the average family income is $82,827.According to the 2000 census, the population was 10,938, consisting of 77.67% African American

      •In Woodmore Maryland the average family income is $103,438. According to the 2000 census, the population was 6,077, consisting 64.9% African American.

      •In Ladera Heights California the average family income is $132,824. According to the 2010 census, the population was 6,498, consisting 73.7% African American.

      1. jackclee lm profile image75
        jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        It begs the question, what happened to the black families you talked about in the ensuing years?
        How did we come to this? Why do we have such high out of wedlock births? Why are the inner city schools not working like the rest of the country? Why are teen unemployment so high in the black community? Why are blacks voting 90% democratic year after year with no improvements?
        How did Obama and Clearance Thomas and Dr. Ben Carson reach their potential?

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13127296_f1024.jpg

          As far as Clarence Thomas ,Ben Carson, and Obama are concerned, the point you are trying to make is ridiculous. So what? They are successful black men. I could also cite three very successful white men like Donald Trump and say: "Well, Donald Trump made it, why can't all the poor white people make it too? But there is another element involved as well. Not only do poor black people have to deal with the same realities as poor whites, they also have to deal with systemic racism. And so, the burden becomes more than twice as heavy. Economic parity for many black people simply hasn't been allowed, and that is why there is a disproportionate number of poor black people in the inner cities. It certainly has nothing to do with talent or motivation. As the men you mentioned, many great black entertainers and sports figures, and many great black writers and scientists have revealed, whenever the door is opened, black people excel.

          I have been a professional musician for many years, and I am not black. I am Aniyunwiya/German. I am very good at what I do, and with the luck of the draw I could be famous yesterday. But some of the best musicians I have ever played with were black. When I began learning the guitar I studied the black bluesmen. They were my mentors. The first real band I played in was a black Disco band in Hawaii. I got fired after the second gig because I couldn't keep up! And I was glad they fired me because I was not ready. I do not get angry when people excel, or if they are more talented than I. It only makes me try harder. But many whites are afraid of the black man taking over, because the black man is not inferior in any way, shape, or form. And neither are my people. And that's what this racism is all about. It is about fear of losing control. But such fear is quite ironic, because all men came from the original black man. The black man is the original source of all human life. And so, we can see  the white racist  trying to run; trying to hide from an inescapable truth. Today it appears that all of the chickens are coming home to roost.

          1. jackclee lm profile image75
            jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks for sharing your experience but you missed my point. Why do some people succeed? White or black? Perhaps it has to do with personal behavior and choices and who they choose as role models and not let society define them...Or be victimized by the very same groups that claim to want to help. I also point out that these black leaders such as Rev. Jackson and Sharpton have done little to improve the situation and yet are propped up by the media every time there is a race issue... If for 50 years, they have not improved the black experience, perhaps we should look in a different direction, a different political class, a different way of thinking and just do the right thing as all other groups have done to succeed. The American dream is alive and well dispite all the obsticles. Race is one factor but not the only factor.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              The desire to improve comes from self determination.  Outside influences are very important.  When I was growing up, my mentors were the white grocery store owner who allowed my dad to have credit and he honorably paid his bill every month.

              My 7th grade English teacher, 8th grade math teacher, etc., were people I could reach out and touch.  They personally encouraged me.  Jessie Jackson was trying to build his reputation on the back of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.  He had a child outside of his marriage.  He was good with rhetoric and stirring the troops.  I can' remember anything he did that impacted my life.  Al Sharpton has been a great source of irritation for me.

              As I said before, the first mentors are the parents.  This is where a strong principled Black family with morals comes in.  Drugs add a deadly element to the mix.  My parents were great, loving parents.  Unfortunately, my two baby sisters ended up on drugs in the late 70s, after I had moved to LA.

              I have reached back to help the kids in my family since I saw what was going on.  They consider me the matriarch and role model of the family.  The kids hate drugs and do not want to be around drugs.  Unfortunately my sister's drug use caused two of her children to be drug babies.  Their father was a hope to die drunk.  The son came to live with me in high school (before I knew the extent of the damage)  He graduated #5 in his class and got a full scholarship to Georgetown University.  He had well meaning Jewish mentors and my nephew loved the pity they showed.  His Georgetown GPA was low because he started going to phychiatrists and was there diagnosed as an adult child of an alcoholic, ADD, and a bunch of stuff.  He was prescribed medications that caused him to sleep all day.  He was accepted into law school but slept his way through.  After 5 years he could graduate because he couldn't reach a 2.0 gpa.

              His sister was diagnosed as having temporal lobe damage and she has Turner's Syndrome.  She can't count money.  I purchased a house in Little Rock for them.  Jeff is working for Xerox/Apple doing telephone tech support from home.

              Tooo long.  My point is that mentors come from people close enough to talk to and help those who have challenges.  Mentorship requires up close and personal involvement.

              1. jackclee lm profile image75
                jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Amen.  I totally agree. Please get the word out to all.
                What is important is :
                Family, Church, Civil Society and the Constitution.

            2. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
              wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              It appears that your entire perspective is biased against black people. Especially when you comment " ... just do the right thing as all other groups have done to succeed..."  You are implying that all other groups or races have succeeded but the black race, and that is as close to a lie as anyone can get. I have been playing this game a long time Jack. Aren't you aware that the majority of poor people in this country are white? Didn't you know that more cops are killed by whites than any other race? Conversely, didn't you also know that more whites are killed by cops than any other race. These are the facts Jack. Now, let's look at the numbers:

              According to  Federal Safety Net  (I believe this is based on a 2014 report): 19.7 million whites are living in poverty while 10.8 million blacks are living in poverty. The poverty rate among whites is 10.1% whereas the poverty rate among blacks is 26.2%. The poverty rate for blacks is double that of whites. And this is not remarkable considering the historical record. It would only be remarkable if the oppressive majority had a higher poverty rate than the oppressed minority. Consequently, all of the hyperbole aimed at suggesting the black race is violent and lacks motivation is simply a racist tactic; a slanderous method being used to undermine the black community.

              If a majority of black people were violent, then what happened in Haiti in 1791 would not have been the exception, but would have become the rule many years ago. If the majority of black people were unmotivated, you would not see so many black people excel in every high paying industry that has removed racial barriers.

              1. jackclee lm profile image75
                jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Perhaps I could have explained my position a little better. When I said, the black community could do the right thing... I was comparing specifically to immigrant groups that came here and succeeded as a group. For example, Vietnamese that came here after the Vietnam war... They learned our language, they started small businesses, they worked hard and long hours, they emphasized education for their children and family, they helped each other and over time, they succeeded as a group and moved out of the underclass... My question is why can't this model be replicate in the black community? If I was black and living in the inner cities of Chicago, I would do my best to get out of there. One can be self taught by reading and the public library is a great place to start. If you read Ben Carson's book, that is exactly what he did to get out of poverty. One can choose to not use drugs or have children out of wedlock... or join a gamg...All these are personal choices and behavior that can be changed. The problems in our inner city is many. It will take time to recover. It will take people deciding to change their behavior to make the transition. No amount of government assistance will do this. If anything, it will only perpetuate the welfare state.

                1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                  wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Do you even read comments before you post? All you did was essentially paraphrase what you originally said. All Vietnamese immigrants are not successful. All Irish immigrants are not successful. Neither group "succeeded as a group". That is pure fantasy! Individuals among each group succeeded, while others failed. As I indicated, there are more poor white people than any other race here in the U.S.. So if we are to view "white people" as monolithic: white people did "not" succeed as a group. Some made it and some didn't. That's what really happened. If you studied the problem from a neutral perspective you might gain some understanding. But that would entail a considerable amount of time devoted to the historical record. If you truly want to help, then educating yourself about this issue would be the best thing you could do. Some of us on this thread have not only studied the situation , but we have also lived it ... far too long. It appears from your comments that you have no experience on either level.

                  1. jackclee lm profile image75
                    jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    I never said all people. I said group meaning as a whole...percentage wise.
                    Why are you not understanding this simple concept?  What is your solution to the plight of blacks in the inner cities? I am giving my perspective based on my experience. My suggestions will help. There are no guarantees.

                2. Kylyssa profile image98
                  Kylyssaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Moving somewhere without money to do so equals choosing to be homeless away from any family support structure you may have. Why would you recommend people choose homelessness over even a crappy home in the inner city? Don't you realize that being homeless would add to their problems exponentially rather than fixing them?

                  I've worked with many homeless people who took advice like yours. People think they can move without enough money, but it often falls through.

                  1. jackclee lm profile image75
                    jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Not necessarily, people immigrate all the time and find places to live. What is your solution to help those trapped in the inner cities of Chicago? Where crime is rampant and shooting is common place and schools are broken and drug use is everywhere? Guess what, the city is ruled by Democrat elected mayors and democratic controlled city council...

        2. Solaras profile image84
          Solarasposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          The current thinking on this subject is that integration caused the decline in many black communities.

          In cities like Atlanta, there were thriving black communities, such as that around Auburn Avenue. They had their own doctors, dentists, architects and store owners.  The professionals provided leadership and positive role models for the young people in the community. Those communities offered hope to young people to get an education and improve their futures.

          Then with integration, those role models left the community to move into affluent, white neighborhoods. As they migrated out, the neighborhoods were left with fewer positive role models, less opportunity to dream of a better life, as they were now surrounded exclusively with others struggling to make ends meet. It became a downward spiral with each generation, until those communities became ghettos. When the best of a community, its success stories, always leave and never look back, those left behind feel forgotten, hopeless and inferior.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            It actually started with redlining.  Realtors would tell white people that a Black person was moving into the neighborhood.  Then a lot of for sale signs would go up.  I remembered seeing 4 to 5 signs on Fair Park Boulevard at a time.  The freeway was built behind our house.  That took traffic off of 12th street (in front of our house).  People could drive across Little Rock without passing by stores.  The stores went out of business.  As we became educated, we left our elderly parents in the communities.  The late 70s brought the drugs into the community.  Gangs left LA/Compton to start drug businesses across the US.  There was a large article in the Little Rock newspapers that chronicled the beginning of the drug/gang wars. 

            Now people are worried about gentrification.  I'm not against gentrification if the people in the area are not able to maintain economic stability on their own.

          2. jackclee lm profile image75
            jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I agree with you. Then why do blacks vote democratic 90% of the time and democrats support open borders and invite more immigrants in? Is this self defeating?

        3. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
          Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          ?
          Only the blacks can answer this.
          In my opinion, unless they do (answer these questions) the issue will never be discussed productively.
          HOW exactly are the whites to blame for the plight of the blacks and ...

          WHAT is that plight?

          plight noun
          predicament, quandary, difficult situation, dire straits, trouble, difficulty, extremity, bind; dilemma, tight corner, tight spot, hole, pickle, jam, fix.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I addressed this at length with Jacklee.  He decided to leave the conversastion.

            The challenges for Black people in poor communities are much like those for anyone else who lives in the poor communities.

            Those "out of wedlock" births are a real problem.  I would tell students they shouldn't have kids until they can afford them.  Unfortunately, that is the reality they see on television and social media.  I tell them that they are not celebrities who can afford to have those kids.  Celebrities' kids are often just as jacked up as inner city kids.

            You copied Jacklee's comments.  If you look under them you will see my lengthy response.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
              Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Behavior issues.

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                behavior, poor parenting, hopelessness, fear, gangs, etc.  It's a vicious circle.  Some are strong enough to get out.

                Some try to argue that the schools are bad.  If that is so, why would some students have high GPAs, test scores and be accepted to Ivy League schools.

                Kids need good parenting and support.  However, some (few) kids are determined even though they don't get it.

                Some people are in poor neighborhoods that were not always poor.  My neighborhood was mixed with professional and blue collar Black people.  Redlining made white people, who incidentally lived on the next street, leave the community.  Freeways made it possible for white people to get nice houses in the suburbs, drive across the city, without touching a city street.  Older Black people who had lived in their homes 50/60 years didn't have enough equity in their homes to move out.  As we became educated we left the area.  That's how most poor inner city areas happened.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  How hard would it be for all of us to just follow these recommendations?

                  Whites (as all people) must adhere to the following boundaries and have the discipline to act according to these tenets:
                  A. No unlawful discrimination.
                  B. No unjust denial of opportunities to anyone.
                  C. No pre-judging based on one's individual preferences regarding:
                      1. Behavior
                      2. Appearances

                  1. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    I must tell you that I am careful when I see guys/girls dressed a certain way.  Either they choose to look like thugs or they are thugs.  I err on the side of caution. 

                    I think if your heart is in the right place, you don't need a list.

          2. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
            wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13110895.jpg

            If you truly want to know the answer to these questions , and more, you are in luck.  I suggest you read "Darkwater: Voices from within the Veil" by W.E.B. Dubois. It would also help to watch many of the videos posted on YouTube of  the Honorable Reverend Louis Farrakhan.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
              Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Thank You!

      2. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I never knew anyone on welfare until I graduated from high school.  An 18-year old girl I went to elementary school was receiving welfare because she was raising her 3 younger brother and 1 younger sister.  Their mom had recently died of cancer.

        My dad had an 8th grade education but he worked 18 hours a day easily.  He was a red cap at the train station and then did painting, electrical work and odds and ins to make enough money to provide for us.

        After I graduated from college and came to California, I then began to meet people on welfare.

        Thank you for sharing!

        Diane

      3. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        My family lived in a "country" area with lots of land.  Everyone at the church was related.  We lived in Little Rock but always drove to the country to visit our family and go to church.  They farmed and laid bricks.  Over the years the land has become prime real estate, near the Arkansas River and people are now building mansions there.

        Media
        We always see crimes committed by Blacks on television which leads people to believe that "ALL" Black people are violent, dangerous, lawbreakers.  It doesn't matter that neighborhoods are mixed in middle class areas and there is very little crime.  There are Blacks in professional jobs that white people know by name; however, their perception is what they see on television.

        The inner city program starts with children (12-17) having children.  They have unstable lives and boyfriends.  Low paying, unstable or no jobs.  This leads into all of the other stuff that goes on.  The inner city neighborhoods are not just Black people.  I do feel this is an area where we, African Americans, should be mentoring and encouraging our relatives (that's who they are) to get educated, stable employment and spend quality time with their kids.  This is mandatory.

      4. Credence2 profile image82
        Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Your pointis well taken, with noted exception of those indiginous to this continent, the experience of African Americans have been historically amonst the worse. Other immigrant groups came to America voluntarily prepared for and elide in the land that they have chosen. White people, regardless of origin did not have the physical differences to identify them for disparate treatment. So the experiences of Irish, Jews, etc., are really not the same as  they could assimilate much more easily in comparison.

        TV does distort the image of black people. We have updated versions of "the Jeffersons" and such where wealth is ridiculously flaunted, or reality based gritty ghetto based life dramas. People living lives in constant danger as the norm, in comparison with things like "The Brady Bunch",what a contrast.

        I have many debates with others that see all black folks as living on the dole in some sort of fashion, this is mostly reinforced through what  people constantly hear inpublic discourse or what is seen on TV.

        It is a sinister program by the corporate master to give certain segments of the poor the impression that some are deserving and some are not. That is the thrust of the Trump phenomenon. Social Services and such are only a disaster when Minority groups are the recipient of such programs.

        I dropped a bombshell, I know.

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I missed this comment. Yes, I have often heard the ridiculous comparisons made between the African slaves and the Irish, as well as the propaganda about how various tribes in Africa sold members of other tribes into slavery. Comments like these are simply tools of racism. Just like a carpenter will always carry a hammer, we can always count on the racist to offer an anecdote to help mitigate the evil perpetrated against the African and the Indigenous by the European Invaders. Any student of history knows that there is simply no comparison whatsoever.

          And you are correct concerning the recipients of various government programs. And this happens all across the board. In the aftermath of Katrina black people looking for food were portrayed as "looters", whereas the white people  doing the same thing were portrayed as "good white folks" who were simply starving and looking for food. The racism of the media was so obvious that Saturday Night Live even did a skit about it. There are far more whites receiving public assistance than minorities. And if there happens to be a disproportionate amount of black people on welfare then it should be no great mystery why. And that is because there are a disproportionate amount of white employers who will not hire black people.

          Many white people get tired of hearing about racism. But I am tired of living under an oppressive racist system that glorifies a racist past with images of tyrants on the money, grotesque statues and monuments, holidays, and stupid songs that glorify war and Manifest Destiny. My people were free long before the European Invaders came here uninvited, but certainly not after. I cannot express to you how frustrating it is to hear some moron tell me how a bunch of slave owners, thieves, rapists, and murderers made me "free" after killing a majority of my people, and then stealing all of the land and the resources.

          1. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks, WB, I almost forgot that I had made this comment.

          2. GA Anderson profile image85
            GA Andersonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Holy cow Credence2! What the hell happened to your sense of reality?

            Tribes sold other tribes, tools of racism, European invaders, black looters, white folks looking for food, an oppressive racist system, your people... Geez, you must be having a bad week.

            Your people were killing and mutilating each other long before the slave trade hit our American shores. There is no justification for our acceptance of slavery, but there is also no validity to your "our people were free before the European invaders rationalization.

            Come on bud, yes, those were awful dehumanizing times, but we progressed. We have gone from the horror of slavery and accepted overt racism to admitting those wrongs and strenuous efforts to correct them. We are now at a place where racism still exists, but only overtly in the minds and actions of Neanderthals, and covertly in the minds and actions of the fearful.

            I am old enough to still have to fight the old ingrained racism of my generation, but also old enough to see that to my grown children color is a non-issue. My kids, (my youngest is 21), don't even see color. That isn't a testament to my parenting, it is a testament to the strides we have made as a society. I would like to take credit for their attitudes, but I see the same thing in their friends.

            Of course there are still young knuckle-heads that are racist as hell, but they are the exception and not the norm - in my view. I also see the inequities that blacks still endure, all those points that you and Dianne speak off, that still exist. But they are rapidly becoming the exception rather than the norm - in my view.  Are we living in two different worlds? Has your life experience so jaded your view that you now agree with WB's "evil Europeans" tirades?

            There is so much more in your post to criticize, but damn Cred, do you really see where we are now as a society as so bad that you would buy into WB's 500-year old white devils rants?

            ps. Yes, I am one of those white folks that is tired of hearing those clarion calls of racism. We are trying. We are trying very hard. A leopard doesn't change its spot overnight. But, I think the last 50 years have proven that we are trying to grow beyond those attitudes. I also think you know that, so what's up with this WB endorsement? Somebody pee in your Cheerios?

            pss. Sorry for the tirade, but I recently watched a video comparing police actions relative to legal open-carry situations involving a white man and a black man walking down the street with a back-slung assault rifle. The black man did not fare well. It upset me, it was not a proud moment for us white folks. We still have a ways to go, but we are trying. And to hear what I viewed as a rational black man endorsing WB's racist views was a bit much. So give us a break will ya?


            GA

            [added] oops, looks like I responded to a WB comment as yours Credence2, sorry bud. I will meet you at the woodshed.

            1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
              wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13163522.jpg

              If you are an educated person then I see you have wasted your money. Like so many here, you are quick to  slander, but you have no originality. If  rape, murder, thievery, and genocide are not evil, then please explain to the world why they are not. If the Europeans who perpetrated these crimes against humanity were not evil, then what should we call them? Good 'ol boys? And since a majority of white Americans continue to celebrate this evil legacy  with holidays and parades, I would challenge anyone to justify it. But you cannot justify it. It doesn't matter what the African did to the African, or what the Indigenous did to the Indigenous before the squatters came.  You can save that hillbilly wisdom for your local watering hole.

              The African did not come here to enslave,rape, dispossess, and murder my people. Neither did the Vietnamese, the North Koreans or the Iraqis. And there was no single Indigenous nation that covered the entire continent like a swarm of hungry locusts devouring everything in sight. It was the European. You do not like that I call a spade a spade because it is not politically correct. But I have no more concern for your frail sensibilities than you do for the slaughter of over 100 million of my people, the enslavement of the African, or the U.S. proxy war that has killed thousands of children in Syria. All you can do is slander like a school yard bully. But guess what my friend, I am not going away.You have nothing of worth to offer, and nothing to say, and so you have come once again to remind us.

              1. profile image0
                ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13163858.png

                Wrench-bisket , How well you have used the race card over the last couple of years ,   How often it has been thrown down by you to defend  the failed culture of your people .    Instead of even beginning to explain the real cause or cure of the  diseased nature of your own people  , instead of posting one image of the absolute  failure of  Native Americans   , Pine Ridge  for example ,  or  the native populations of the northwest ,    You continue to  blame someone who lived three or four hundred years ago.         You really need to get around more though ,   your people are their own  worst enemy on the Rez .    Number one  cause --    Fatherless homes  .   Welcome to the  blame - game -rodeo  , Wrench-bisket !

                Want a cure , really - get to work cleaning up your own house !

                1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                  wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13164225.jpg

                  And so, since you have used this same derogatory approach many times before, I see it is your weapon of choice. The Lakota are among the bravest of warriors, and they were one of the last group of human beings on this continent to fight against this evil empire. I have nothing but respect for the Lakota, and the people of Pine Ridge. Apparently they are not so failed since they have recently successfully halted the Keystone XL pipeline.  Some of these great warriors have commented: "Dead or in Prison Before We Allow the KXL Pipeline".  And I stand in solidarity with them.

                  It is better to die standing on your feet than crawling on your knees. My mother and father were also great warriors. They armed themselves, and on several occasions fired upon groups of white racist cowards who sought to intimidate and remove them from our beautiful 200 acre farm during the 1950's. As I grew older, I realized that many of these racists were poor, lived in rusty trailers, slept with their sisters and daughters, and spent most of their free time at the local taverns. I grew up with plenty of love, education, and money,  as my parents made sure of that. Your version of the Indigenous peoples of this continent is what came out of a Cracker Jack box, as it is clear you have not educated yourself concerning American History. And I am not doing so bad either. Anyone can see that I am more educated,creative, and articulate, than those who only seek to slander and ridicule. I was born in the lap of luxury, but even if I should die a pauper, I will still possess more than the evil and arrogant men who journey through this world clueless, and without a soul. My weapon of choice is truth and knowledge. This is why I do not attack the character of my adversaries as much, or as viciously as they attack mine. I do not need to, as their ignorance speaks for itself.

                  Cleaning up my own house? I am glad you mentioned that. That is exactly what I am doing here. I am kicking the dust off of my heels. I am part of a growing movement among African, Indigenous, and Mixed Blood people. We are moving and active in many directions, and we are united in solidarity. The imaginary, stereotypical images that you carry around in your head of poor drunken "Indians", the ghetto black, or the "good Negro" who tap dances, waves Old Glory,and sings a rousing rendition of "The Star Spangled Banner" will be your downfall. The white man likes to talk about how he brought the gift of "free speech" into the New World. And so, here I am enjoying all of that free speech that the good white man has bestowed upon me. Hold on, because the best is yet to come! Hafa Adai!

                  1. profile image0
                    ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Wrench ,  Personally  , I have visited , traveled in and done trading in  six or seven Native American  Indian  reservations inside America's borders ,   I have visited Mexico   and  listened as Mexican indigenous  people described the treatment of their peoples  by whatever form of government Mexico has ,  I have seen the Mayan ruins of a culture long gone and know the persecution there  ,   I have also studied  in my own life  , the trials  and tribulations  of Native Americans  here including but not limited to my own relatives    , The Abenaki tribe in northern  New England of whom are  my relations by marriage   and my own native  and non-native bloodlines .

                    But  never have  I heard such a phony accusatory attitude as yours ,   You are a phony , you are a  phony political  re-actionist  , your rants are  in affect   phony in themselves ,    your whole purpose  in these forums has proven to be nothing but   -Prof.  Ward Churchill  like phony-isms .    The most obvious proof of this  , is in the horrid condition of your own native lands , villages and peoples .

                      I would challenge ANYONE to travel there  in  any number of government or self funded  reservations  and observe the power of the victim-ology inflicted on a people...... BY THIER OWN  TRIBAL LEADERSHIP..

                    A Crackerjack Box knowledge ?  Look no further than your own immature attitude and responses to all of these political forums you have been involved in  , Wrench , look in the mirror!

            2. Credence2 profile image82
              Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Well, GA, you could have just hit the delete key to remove misdirected comments. I think that there is an alterior motive here, a $64,000 question, that thing that sticks in your craw, you know?

              How much is WB and I on the 'same page', and if we are not always? We share the 'same book', rather than being separated by libraries across town. Educating people from our perspective may not always be comforting, that is of course, if getting to the truth is an objective.

              As for my week? I am doing just fine. My schtick is slavery and hypocrisy. My expectation for a Govermnent and society that heralds itself as a democracy, based upon the rule of law with equality of man as a foundation, is a bit more than I would expect from nomadic tribes, Japanese or Nazi fascists. I am holding America to a higher standard, because she always tells us that she deserves to be.

              I can only say that in regards to 'racism' there has been improvement to the extent that more of overt examples has disappeared. But there is still work to do. While, I can point to the article, there was account where DAVID Duke, renown white supremacist, was running for either Govenor or Senate in Louisiana, he lost, but gathered 60 percent of the White vote. People of color in the state were responsible for the man's defeat. Things appear calm on the surface but there can still be a substantial cauldron underneath. Such is my view of race relations in America, today. Duke's racist record was either embraced by so many whites or considered merely incedental in their choice. Of course, WE, are to look at such things differently. That is what many of us see in Trump.

              This is never personal. I am most confident that you and many of the folks in this forum, even those in an adversarial place, are not deliberately behind the events having its roots so long ago. Regardless, there still remain systemic and institutional constructs within our society much of it race based and quite subtle, where we can't too soon rest upon our laurels.

              As for the "evil european tirade". My belief is that I have seen so much brutality and savagery among the human family, irregardless of race and ethnicity, I really cannot be sure that given the same circumstances of having the  technological advantages of firearms and steel combined with decimation of indiginous populations with disease in a unique time in world history, that neither Asians or Africans would have behaved any differently were there circumstances the same. It is intersting though, how the advocacy of "whiteness" as opposed to darker skin seems to be the rule over the entire hemisphere. The tenets of systemic pro white and light skinned racism and race prejudice has tenacles that wrap around the planet.

              Even Malcolm X toward the end of his life, having gone to Mecca in 1964 as a adherent of Islam worshipping with whites on a basis of equality, recognized a systemic problem in AMERICAN society, that was far more involved than just black people and whitepeople.

              I wondered while in Panama, the racial hierarchy with all the privileges associated with those on the top always went to the whites or lighter skin? I also asked why, when in St. Martaan a few years ago, skin bleaching cream was still quite the rage?

              I toured Europe as a young man during the late Seventies. It was like being raised on the moon and leaving the compound each time to go outside with the needed life support apparatus, down to my moon boots. It is a habit you don't think about, like looking both ways before crossing the street. My introduction to life in Europe was like walking around in a space suit on Waikiki. How ridiculous is that?
              The subtle constructs seem to disappear, I was accepted implicitly, revealed even in little forms of communication but telling things like body language. All the psychological baggage associated with being black in America disappears, and it was all so much superfluous stuff. My point is that there need not be angst between us because one is black and one is white. America's racial history is unique and has had sinister implications relative to other societies. While I had issues with the West Germans, the biggest one was the mistake of associating with AMERICAN tourists. We had language issues, etiquette issues, but my basic humanity and subsequent equality were never in question.

              Wrench is right about the fact that assimilation in America was far more difficult among race and ethnicities with disguishing physical characteristics verses Jews or Irish.

              Wrench is right and I am appalled that people could think that internment of Japanese-AMERICAN people during World War II did not have a substantial racial component.

              I have said quite a bit. As long as the leopard is aware that the spot changing process must be continuous, we too, can be on the same page.

              Under today's circumstances would you choose to be a black person, honestly, if you had a choice?

              1. GA Anderson profile image85
                GA Andersonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Well, as I read your response I was thinking my trip to the woodshed wasn't too bad...

                until I reached your last question...

                And yes, I do wish I had just hit the delete button.

                GA

                1. Credence2 profile image82
                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I am not letting you off that easy, you need to cut me a stout piece of birch....

    4. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Michelle has reiterated this statement endlessly.   Yes, the ancestors of Black Americans were enslaved.  Yes again, slavery is a part of Black American history.   Yes, it should be acknowledged but don't incessantly dwell upon the issue.  Slavery is only a part of Black history.   Blacks created empires in Africa.  Black Americans were inventors & many inventions were & still are created by them but aren't acknowledged.   There IS more to Black history than slavery.


      As to Bill O'Reilly, slavery was hellish.  Slaves were treated as chattel or worse.  Slaves ate the worst food & oftentimes had the worst accommodations.  Bill, read some slave narratives, thank you.   Slaves were abused at will, whipped for the slightest offenses.  Families separated at will.   Women abused.  Men abused.  Oh Bill, please SHUT UP.......about slavery.   Oh Bill, I forgot to interject, Irish people were also viewed & treated as second class citizens by the British.  The British treated Irish as Blacks; even early America saw the Irish as Blacks, read some books on history.  Read the book THE GANGS OF NEW YORK, also watch the movie of the same name, directed by Martin Scorsese.  The Irish when they entered America weren't welcomed at all.  Also watch the PBS series, The Irish in America: The Long Journey Home.  This series details how the Irish were treated in America.  The series further indicated that the Irish became respectable only when John F. Kennedy was elected President of the United in 1960.

      1. Kylyssa profile image98
        Kylyssaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I took the First Lady's statement to be one of pure joy and wonder at how far we've come as a nation.

        Very, very few Scots or Irish were in the colonies voluntarily when the White House was built. The White House was built by slaves both black and white* and by some people who weren't slaves. It's history and Michelle is 1000% right that we've made incredible progress since then.


        *Anyone bought from a kidnapper or directly kidnapped to do labor for someone else or the still indentured offspring of such a person is a slave, no matter what paperwork has been created around the kidnapping and sale.

      2. Credence2 profile image82
        Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I would like to add that the Irish were successfully assimilated in American society well before 1960. Kennedy was controversial primarily because he was Catholic.

        1. gmwilliams profile image85
          gmwilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          A few were assimilated in America, living in middle & upper class communities & suburbs but many were lower middle class, working class & poor, living in ethnic enclaves.  The Irish really didn't become respectable until the Kennedy collection.  Now, many Irish are what one would call solidly middle, upper middle, & even rich.  To many Caucasian ethnics of Polish, Italian, Greek, & Slavic backgrounds, the Irish are seen as WASPs or as near WASPs as possible(re: the book-THE RISE OF THE UNMELTABLE ETHNICS by  Michael Novak.)   The PBS series The Irish in America-The Long Journey Home discusses how the Kennedy election finally made the Irish respectable & acceptable in American culture & society.

          After Kennedy was elected, being Irish was at last respectable.  The Irish finally arrived & become established.  Before then, the Irish were suspect and second class citizens. Yes, there were lace curtain Irish before(the Irish upper class) which the Kennedys were part of.  However, even the Irish moneyed were not considered to be real society.  The Kennedys had to fight to be accepted.  Joseph Kennedy was denied a top political office in the 1930s; he vowed & fought to make sure that his sons would get the political opportunities he was denied.

          1. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks, it seemed that1960was late for assimilation.  But, yourpointiswell taken, Joseph Sr. did have trouble being accepted among the Boston leading families due to Anti-Irish bigotry, as I had once read. Much of this during the 1920s and perhaps even the thirties. FDR made him ambassador to Great Britain in the late 1930's, a pretty critical spot considering that war clouds were in the air. FDR contemplated this possibility and picked his ambassador with care.  Nice Call.

    5. RecoverToday profile image77
      RecoverTodayposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      No, she should not have said it.  In fact, continually bringing up the oppression of the Black race is causing more unrest.  It's time to put it down.  And using it for an excuse is unethical.  Blacks have more rights now than ever.  If you disagree, fine.  But wait till you are over 50, looking for a job, and are a white female,, then you'll know about discrimination.

      1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
        wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13126929_f1024.jpg

        You say that bringing up the oppression of the African is causing more unrest, but I fear you don't know the half of it. What's causing even more unrest is American hypocrisy. You say you don't want to hear about slavery. Well guess what? I don't either, but every time I look at a one dollar bill I see a slave owner, and it bothers me. When I look at the Statue of Liberty it also bothers me, and creates unrest in my soul. When I see the Statue of Liberty I see Invaders coming to this continent; uninvited aliens  killing my people any way that they could; killing them with the biological weapon of smallpox, raping the women, burning my ancestors alive, and stealing the land, the resources, and the riches of an entire continent.

        And as the Americans were completing their masterpiece of genocide, they erected a grotesque statue to invite the whole world to come and plunder what was left. When I look at Mt Rushmore I get the same feeling. I get the same feeling on Columbus Day, and the 4th of July. But the Americans keep shoving the past in my face with their statues, their holidays, their currency and their traditions. Michelle Obama only made one speech and it caused a great stir. But what I have just described is continuous and non-stop; from the day I was born unto this very moment. So yes, I can relate to your frustration ...  x one million.

        But  many Americans do not recognize my people as being significant. They view the Indigenous and the African as two different races of people struggling to make it in a white world; trying to become as white as we can on the inside. Yes, that is true for some, but there are many now who are starting to reclaim their heritage, and to remember who they are, and who they are not. The people are being educated, de-programmed, and de-colonized.  Soon the Americans will have a choice to make. They can choose to stay here and live in a truly multi-cultural society, or they can go back to Europa,  and create a new American Dream. I will not stand in their way.

        1. wilderness profile image78
          wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Racism - our own, not that of others - is so very often as much a matter of perception and of choice as anything else, and in the US with it's "mongrelized" mixing of races that is even more true.  Unless a recent immigrant is from a racially still fairly "pure" part of the world, we are ALL a mix of many races. 

          I seem to remember you saying you were German - would it please you more and make you happier to recognize and accept that you are reaping the benefits of the hard work and sacrifices of your ancestors?  That that work and sacrifice is partially responsible for what you are and what you have attained, that it is something to be proud of rather than disdainful?

          1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
            wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            No, the ends does not justify the means. That is the twisted logic of Manifest Destiny. And as far as my German half is concerned, I give it very little thought. I was treated not much differently growing up as the black children. I was able to enjoy receiving all of the usual racial epithets that the black kids enjoyed. With the exception of the N-word. This particular epithet was usually preceded with the word "prairie" as a qualifier.

            The whites treated me as an outcast, for no other reason than the shape of my face and the color of my skin. But overall, the black people in our community treated me like a human being. They accepted me based on my character, and not because of the way I looked, or my race. I can be who I want to be.  It is only my responsibilty to honor the people that I love, and those who have lifted me up when I could not stand up on my own. It would be foolish of me to embrace a system and a people who kicked me to the curb on the day that I was born. But I suppose you feel that a tree made crooked should somehow grow up straight.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Explain the word "prairie."  I never heard it with regard to race.

              1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                That was a common term where I grew up in the Midwest, near the Mason Dixon Line. It was an adjective used to distinguish between the Black people,and the Indigenous. Apparently because they associated us with living on the open prairie prior to the invasion; n-gg-- or prairie n-gg--, depending.  It was so racist where I lived that dark skinned Italians were constantly harassed as well. And it never stopped. My home life was peaceful on the farm. But outside of my comfort zone it was a constant battle.

                It was a relief when I was stationed at Pearl Harbor at the age of 17. It was the first time in my life that I felt at ease in public.  I looked a lot like the local people, and I blended in to the community, instead of standing out like a sore thumb. It was in Hawaii that I experienced for the first time a small taste of what it feels like to be in the majority. It was a great feeling. And that is one of the drawbacks of integration. I would have preferred going to an all Black school, or an Indigenous school, instead of trying to get an education amidst all of the racist nonsense that was always going on.

                1. Credence2 profile image82
                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  In Hawaii I have always had that sense of a this racial burden being lifted in Hawaii, one of the few places where being 'white' was not always an advantage. It not all about being. 'White'. I found a life equivalent to a breath of fresh air when I toured much of the Western Europe in the late 1970's. It was like dropping a lifetime worth of psychological baggage that I no longer needed. Much like walking around in a space suit on Waikiki Beach, did I think that I was still on the moon? The Eagle has Landed? American and history and such are the sources of unique experiences.

                2. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Interesting!  I don't know about anyone else but I'm learning a lot and getting different perspectives.  I really hope someone will explain how Obama has been divisive.  I haven't gotten the sense that Black people feel he has done a lot for them.  I don't really know what he could have done.  He is not the president of the Black people but of everyone.

                  I've come to realize that if you are pleasing everyone there is something really wrong with you.  Leaders cannot please everyone.  I'm sure Obama has more of an appreciation for GW now.

                  1. Credence2 profile image82
                    Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    His job was to focus on the needs of all citizens, being a Democrat putting his attention on working and middle classes that make up the bulk of the American electorate. If he focused on this in earnest, he would help Black folks as well. Considering the obstructionism from the GOP side, he did as well as possible. I certainly could not have expected anymore from a McCain or Romney except double down on 'trickle down'. There have been fundamental changes in the AMERICAN economy that do not allow us to have the same expectations or come to the same conclusions that we could have in the past historical economic downturns. This is bigger than any one administration and to combat it requires a progressive reassessment and unified effort from both political parties. This has yet to be accomplished.

                  2. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                    wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13129524.jpg

                    The people who are saying Obama has been dividing the nation are either very racist, or simply aren't very educated. The president of the United States answers to the ruling elite. For instance: Abraham Lincoln rebuked the bankers who wanted to finance the Civil War at a high interest rate; a move that would have given them complete control,  and enslaved the populace to an enormous debt; creating a system similar to the current Federal Reserve. As a result, Lincoln was assassinated. John Kennedy was also going after the Federal Reserve, and threatening their supremacy which had existed since 1913. He also was assassinated.  I am certain that if Obama seriously challenged the status quo he would end up dead, just like Kennedy and Lincoln.

                    It is remarkable that people are saying that Obama has created a racial divide, since many black people feel he hasn't done enough to address racial inequality. People try to simplify politics, and the machinations of world governments, and it is much more complicated than that. We really can't point to one source, such as Obama, and suggest that he is the mastermind behind a racial divide that has existed for over 500 years! That is simply absurd. The FBI released a report in 2006 that the Ku Klux Klan had infiltrated police departments across the United States. That was ten years ago. I think we can agree that their goal wasn't simply to issue parking tickets! Their goal has always been to disrupt and to destroy the black community.

                    By infiltrating police  departments the Klan has been able to attack the black community on several fronts. They have been able to insure a steady flow of narcotics and other illicit drugs into the inner cities. Of course this serves a four-fold purpose: it cripples the black community through drug addiction, increases the prison population which brings in big revenue for the state, increases revenue for the Klan, and encourages a negative racial stereotype among the mainstream.They can also use their influence to incite violence among rival gangs. This helps to demoralize the black community, as well as providing more fodder for the "prison for profit" system. The people who are accusing Obama and Black Lives Matter of increasing racial tension aren't even considering this angle. But when we consider the history of the Klan, along with the FBI report, and a little common sense, we arrive at a conclusion that is far more tangible than a conspiracy theory.

                    During the Jim Crow era the Klan operated more overtly. Today, they engage in more covert operations. Rather than directly attack the black community, they attack by proxy. This is a far more effective and comprehensive approach. By using their influence in Law Enforcement and other areas of government, they are able to manipulate the black community of the inner city and create the false impression that the puppet is the sole perpetrator, and that the oppressed are the violent aggressors. Many of the comments here reveal that this approach has been very effective.

            2. wilderness profile image78
              wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              What ends?  What means? 

              My own g'grandparents moved West and homesteaded in a little valley ironically less than 50 miles from where I live now.  I have the diary of one of their kids, telling of life there, where g'grandma was the first white woman to ever enter the valley and there was only one other person living there.

              I've never heard of any run ins with any natives - there is no mention at all.  I assume that the valley was, indeed, empty - reasonable as it was a small place and probably not large enough to support a village without agriculture while a day's walk away was a much larger valley with a beautiful lake.  The stories in that little book were telling - it was not an easy life for them, and I appreciate and honor what they did and accomplished.  Digging miles of irrigation canal, for instance, by hand and without even a transit to maintain grade.  Building a log home single handedly and fencing acres of farm land with hand cut fencing.  Raising a family, including a crippled girl (grandma) with any services or sales a 3 day wagon drive away.

              So what evils did they commit?  Or their parents, moving from Europe to the East Coast of America?  Did the color of their skin define their evil?  Did the sins of people 300 years before, on a different continent, transmit to anyone with the same color of skin?  Were all your German ancestors evil because of white skin - you aren't tainted because although you carry the genes your skin tone is slightly different than "pure" Nordic Caucasian?

        2. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
          Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          How dare you. Underneath we are all bloody red made by the same creator who gave us brains, hands and senses. How dare anyone pinpoint this negative BS called "racism." YES, there were slaves SO WHAT? YES there were whites looking for freedom of religion, loving God, who got ahold of this country and brought forth a wave of others who took it over by hook and crook. SO WHAT? It is behind us now. Why, for the love of humanity, look back. Can it do any good to rehash the mistakes of the past?????
          For the hundredth time, we can make this country work thanks to a perfectly fine Constitution.
          Cease pinpointing negative and just work toward solutions.
          What are the solutions?
          Common Sense, Respect and Love of the spirit operating in each and every Living soul!

          Thanks for this freedom of speech.

          1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
            wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13131199.jpg

            No Kathryn, my blood is not the same color red. My blood is not tainted with greed, indifference, and genocide. Nor do I subscribe to the popular notion that we all have the same creator. That is just another Eurocentric concept that has poisoned the minds of the people.

            Obviously you missed the point entirely. I was responding to someone who was bemoaning the fact that Michelle Obama was bringing up the past with her comment; a past that they felt should not be mentioned. But it is always a one way street in this respect with many Americans. They don't want us to speak of the atrocities, and the evil committed by their ancestors, and if we do they accuse us of dwelling on the past. But they, on the other hand, freely dwell on the past when they celebrate holidays like Columbus Day, and the 4th of July. But what they do is even worse, because they are glorifying evil, and ignoring the humanity of the First Nations, and the African slaves.

            They bring up the past by putting faces of tyrants and slave owners on currency, and by erecting monuments that glorify an evil past. But the descendants of the European Invaders cannot have it both ways. And we will remind them at every turn, as we are exercising our freedom of speech; not a freedom of speech granted by a slave master, but the freedom of speech  bestowed upon us by "our" God, and "our" creator. It is the same freedom of speech my ancestors enjoyed prior to 1492.

            But when we look to the Middle East we see that the past is not behind us. The same Imperialist aggression that stole an entire continent and named it America is at work today in the Middle East. Innocent men, women, and children are dying because of the greedy Americans and their evil allies who will stop at nothing less than world domination. And now they are about to start World War III by defying Russia's warnings, and by placing their weapons of mass destruction on her doorstep. And this is the side that you are rooting for?

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
              Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I wish you would speak more clearly.

              1. profile image0
                ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Kathryn , I can .     

                Almost All  Native   and  African Americans  have assimilated into the American mainstream of lifestyle , just like the rest of us ,where ever we were from !   Most of those that have  , have done so  realizing the reality of  America's  [ and the rest of the worlds ] often racial and colorful history ,...The problem with those like the above opinions is that they are mired in the  false flags of modern  apologist  re-writers of  ALL our REAL history .  Their  psyche   is of an ego-centric , artistic literary  opportunist ,   He is one of the kind that  you would NEVER hear speak the way that he does IF he were in public . The likes of these people    have a moral compass  of   opportunist  liberal artistic flair in their presentations,  Don't forget ,  as I have not , that you will find that his opinion of America's history is based on three things - The false faults of a raping, pillaging Columbus - [who never set foot on America soil  ]   the inclusion of like minded "others " in their victimhood -- and  the modern anti- American  atmosphere being promoted by liberal leadership in our government today  .  For them ,  Its also  as if Slavery too was an American invention  ,  an American occurrence only , instead of a world wide  occurrence where   most slaves were corralled , transported and sold by their own people !

                If we ignore the miss-informed opportunist's of today ,they will recede into the woodwork from which they arrived  ,  once the sympathetic political atmosphere  they thoroughly enjoy  , has  been thrown out of office  or impeached !

                1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                  wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13132010_f1024.jpg

                  Your veiled threats are laughable. But of course, I am sure that such a brave man as yourself would speak your mind anywhere. I'm sure that you would have no problem speaking at a rally for the supporters of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, or Black Lives Matter. I am also sure that you would cheerfully stand in front of 500 members of the Palestine Liberation Organization and explain to them why they all have a "victim mentality", and why they should step up to the plate and go with the flow of Colonialism.

                  The atrocities of Columbus are well illustrated in the written account of Bartolome de las Casas entitled:  A Short Account of the Destruction of the Indies and Historia de Las Indias:

                  English Version: http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/203 … mages.html

                  Spanish Version: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/49298/4 … 9298-h.htm


                  The journal of Columbus also illustrates his evil intent, and the excerpt in the image I provided here is from his journal. I learned the following by the time I was in the 5th grade: The Caribbean (also known as the West Indies) is a region of the Americas consisting of the Caribbean Sea, its islands, and the surrounding coasts. The region is located southeast of North America, east of Central America, and to the northwest of South America.

                  And apparently the New World Encyclopedia knows it too, as the preceding excerpt is from their page. So it appears that Columbus did set foot on American soil.

                  Furthermore, it would be quite ridiculous of the nations of North and South America to celebrate a man credited with the "discovery of America" when he never set foot on American soil! It appears that you are under the false impression that the only "Americans" on this side of the world are from the United States. But anyone living on this continent, whether it be the U.S. Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, or Argentina is considered an American. Gee Archie! Imagine that. There is actually a communist nation in America, replete with American citizens who are communists!

                  But you are right about one thing, Slavery was not an American invention. Slavery preceded the Roman Empire. However, the slavery that existed on the continent of America after the Invasion of 1492 was originally promoted and sanctioned by the Catholic Church, under the direction of Pope Nicholas V, who issued the papal bull "Dum Diversas" in 1452. This document authorized Afonso V of Portugal to conquer Saracens and pagans and consign them to "perpetual servitude". This is the evil work that planted the seeds of racism which had not previoulsy existed in the world, and which later led to the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. The Dum Diversas mitigated the evils of slavery in the minds of many Christian peasants; an ignorant mass of humanity who were led to believe through this evil document that it was the duty of the  European Christian to enslave and dispossess all non-Christians, and that it was Gods will for them to do so. This is the mindset that later led to the concept of Manifest Destiny.

                  http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13132012.jpg

                  Yes, slavery did not begin in America, and neither did rape and murder. And so I suggest that the next time someone is accused of rape or murder that you should stand in their defense! You should inform the judge and jury that rape and murder did not begin in America, and that the accused was only doing what millions of men had done before him, since the beginning of time. You could also admonish his accusers to stop whining. People are raped and murdered every day, and these "victims" should get over it, and stop living in the past. Right?

                  Black Lives Matter, A.I.M., the Mexica Movment, and many other educational, and activist organizations, are proof that we have not "faded into the woodwork". In fact, we are in the processes of "replacing the woodwork" with a design that is far more appealing.

                  1. profile image0
                    ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Wenchbisket ,

                    How easily you speak of the trials and tribulations of  ALL of   mankind  a few  hundred  years ago ! Not having either been there  at the time not  suffering for one moment of your  own modern day life.  How easily YOU assume the victim-ology  , the probable assumption of reparations , the  horribly recorded   suffrage of many peoples of ALL races  ,White , Black, Brown or Red   ALL for you own  personal  grandiose  apparently !   

                    It is actually shameful in my mind to have ever had had to explain the poverty of my own upbringing , or for that matter , any one here  in America  today !  There is  however ,  far too much poverty and victim-ology even today  CAUSED  by poor leadership at the local levels  .   I see it in Appalachia  in the poverty of  a nations  dying need  of a natural resource .     I've seen it on modern day Native American  Reservations  where apparently the subsidies and trust funds from the federal government are  delivered to a few " Tribal Elders " monthly   who drive   Caddies , BMW's ,  live in fine houses  while 99 % percent of the  tribe suffer from extreme  alcoholism , drug abuse  , crack cocaine , meth  use and extreme hunger ! AND where  the federal Government has no jurisdiction to
                    interfere in the  tribal elders economic abuse !

                    if YOU  seriously believe America owes something  MORE to Native American Tribes for the SELF  abuse  of alcoholism and drugs  ,For the abuses by  YOUR OWN  TRIBAL ELDERS   , Then YOU sir are way out of line in the course of Blame you  throw at  all other Americans today !    At this point in History  -- it should be paramount that you blame your own leadership for  economic  corruption , graft , and   theft of  federal resources  ALREADY allocated  for the benefit of  your people  from trust funds  well over a hundred years old . !     Your  shameful  rants of accusatory  posts that ALWAYS blame Uncle Sam ;  Are nothing more than a waste of  human voice spent on a  blame game undeserved by others   and fully  caused by YOUR OWN LEADERS !

                    You were not a victim nor I a perpetrator .

                    Wrench -   Clean Up Your Own House First - and then I will listen seriously to you !

                2. rhamson profile image69
                  rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  It is a shame your words cannot be accepted. But as a country that lives in a fantasy of history and cannot look at itself through a clear lens your words offend too many to count. Our history is a jaded one with greed at its core. The very discovery of it was a commercial enterprise that enslaved people when the opportunity arose. I agree with much of what you say but you run light years ahead with your accusations while many ponder and dismiss that which they find abhorring and or above their head.

      2. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Recover,
        I am 65 and was forced to retire from a job I loved because they wanted to reduce the salary budget.  Before that I was harrassed for 4 years, given bad evaluations and stalked.  Because I was use to harrassment, I knew to document everything and write rebuttals to evaluations that showed how ridiculous evaluators were.  Example:  I didn't pass out popsicle sticks for students to let me know what they didn't understand.  I was told students couldn't sing until it was time for a program.  The class was called "Choir."

          You are white female over 50.  I'm Black female, over 65, BBA, MBA, certified to teach Business and Music, and have known discrimination since I was a child.

        "Blacks have more rights now than ever."  That is soooo true.  However, rights mean nothing if people are in a position to deny those rights.

      3. Credence2 profile image82
        Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

        That's OK. I do disagree, though.

    6. peoplepower73 profile image85
      peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I don't believe slavery should be forgotten.  It is part of America history.  But it should be portrayed appropriately.  I think it is wrong and dangerous when any group''s worth is devalued.  But throughout history this has happened and been repeated many times.

      One of the reasons it is in the media today is because of the use of force by police officers.  If a black person does not comply with their commands and they think it endangers their life or the life of others, they are allowed to use lethal force.  The black people are upset because those officers are put on administrative leave and there is usually a long grand jury trial and then the officers in almost every case are not charged as criminals.  Black lives do matter. And black people see this as a great injustice. The reason this happens is because law enforcement has the Fraternal Order  of Police who have great legal defense lawyers who are pledged to defend fellow officers.

      Am I being racist because I use the word Black?  We are wired to see the differences in each other.  How and why it is used is another story.  We all belong to one race and that is the human race.  If an alien were to come to this planet, they would see the human race in all its variations.

      When a group is devalued, it is to gain power.  Slavery was used to use human power to perform the tasks required of the plantation owners. Undoubtedly, there are still  people who resent and hate black people for many reasons.  The problem is, as in any culture, there are various economic levels. There are the poor, the middle class, and the upper class.  To classify blacks into one class is doing them a huge disservice, especially the President of the United States and his family.  For the First Lady to talk about slavery is appropriate because it is part of her heritage.

      One of the behaviors of a conquering force is to rape pillage, and interbreed with those who they have conquered.  This causes the gene pool to be spread to others. In time that gene pool will be spread to where we look more like each other.  Again, am I being racists?  I believe it is just human nature to spread the gene pool.  it has happened throughout human history.  Look at what the Conquistadors did to South American Indians.

      1. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        If I were near you, I'd give you a big hug.  You are the kind of person that can change the world for the better.  You remind me of my Ida W. Moose.  I wrote several articles about her on Hubpages.  She passed away June 20, 2014.  I'm crying as I write about her so I'll STOP!!!

        1. peoplepower73 profile image85
          peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Ah, thank you Diane.  I just calls them as I see them.  I'm sorry I made you cry.  Have a great day.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            You have a blessed day!

    7. profile image0
      ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Todays extremely divisive media , a rhetorically  and much  politically  divided  voting  public  ,   a President who has   re-awakened racial divides by the re-awakening of negative  and  ancient  racial discourse , the influx and growth of social media  ,   the naiveté of a youthful and entitled last couple of generations ,   Gee .  I think  I know why  there can be no progress .

      Americans  ,  of a mature age , long ago had all but healed this country  through the sixties  street revolutions  and honest public and media dialog  that apparently Pres. Obama felt that he had missed out on  enough to re- awaken it by his support of the negative factors in todays   society and minority   cultures .   As long as the media  utilizes the likes of Al "race-baiter " Sharpton  , Jesse  Jackson  ,  the BLM  , The New Black Panthers , the Old Black Panthers ,  etc. ,   we will continue with these  violent and  unproductive discussions and actions that will only add fuel  to an old and long since dying fire .

      Even one of the newest terms .  "Systematic Racism ". Is nothing but an all out attempt to guilt  the rest of America into a failed political correctness of social ,  political , and institutional  affirmative action . 
      Guess what , we already instituted that decades ago .      At what point  does affirmative action  then become the new  imbalance of  opportunity ?

      Actually , I believe that America as a whole would love to have this  discussion , they would welcome it  ,  but .   A real one  . Not one created out of an  academia  of  pseudo- socialist phony intellectualisms, not out of Ivy league hotbeds of  socio-political  divisiveness  .   The  Bill Ayers  ,the  Reverend Wrights ?The  Al Sharpton's ,black race .of the   No . Someone , anyone  with a sense of healing rather than of dividing !

      1. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I remember the Black Panthers.  I've heard more about the New Black Panthers from people condemning them.  I can't name one.  Do they have a leader?  I think people are making a much bigger deal of a wanna be important group than there really is.  Just looked at the NBP website.


        @NewBlackPanthr1

        TWEETS
        2,567
        FOLLOWING
        1,558
        FOLLOWERS
        5,582
        LIKES
        17

        How much power do they have with 17 likes?  There's one person's name on the website.  The guy is probably a Black Muslim.  His name is Min. Hashim Nzinga.  This is probably one or two people trying to bring back the Black Panther Party.

        Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson, etc.  Who listens to them?  I think it was Freddie Gray's parents who encouraged Al Sharpton to not show up for the funeral.  People who want to make them Black "leaders" pay way more attention to them than Black people. Rev. Wright/Ayers?  What are they doing?

        An example of systemic racism is the War on Drugs which dealt with stiff sentences for the types of drugs Black people used and did not address the drugs that the white kids were using.  Bill Clinton said he is sorry that he instituted the 3 Strikes because that caused Blacks to be incarcerated at a higher rate than Whites.

        The tainted jury for George Zimmerman and the villification of Trayvon Martin includes examples.  The jury foreman, wife of an attorney, was allowed to have dinner with her husband, twisted peoples arms, and there were no Blacks on the jury.

        1. profile image0
          PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Excellent response, Diane.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            TY Pretty Panther!

      2. peoplepower73 profile image85
        peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this

        ahorseback:  And there you are, true to form, blame the liberals for all your woes.  I suspect you think if all the liberals would move to another planet.  All of America would be a great place to live. 

        You have just divided the country by blaming the liberals for everything.  You are more of an intellectual than you realize with your vocabulary and your flowery poetic language.

        "pseudo- socialist phony intellectualisms and "Ivy league hotbeds of  socio-political  divisiveness "  are pretty big words for a just ordinary person like yourself.  Are you sure, you are not a pseudo- conservative intellectual?  You sure write like one!

        1. jackclee lm profile image75
          jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Peoplepower, If not the liberal policies, who should we blame? In the last 50 years, we had the war on poverty under Johnson, and yet the percent of the poor remained the same at about 10%. We've had welfare that broke up black families so they can get the benefits...child subsidies and housing and food...
          We had record food stamps being promoted by our own Agriculture Dept. and yet we are told people are going to bed hungry... We have broken schools in our inner cities that can't teach and the teachers union refuse to bring reform. We have an open border that allows immigrants to come hear and take jobs that American's won't do...we have 20 trillion deficits that are going even higher despite the record revenue to the IRS last few years...we have police being gunned down in the streets while politicians pander to BLM.

    8. rhamson profile image69
      rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I believe preconception has the most leverage in why the conversation turns ugly quickly. I have broached the subject with a few when I felt they were open to the subject. One a few occasions I have been met with some openness and and candor. But in many cases I have found defensive and aggressive tones that stop everything.

      The idea that a society can believe that taking people against their will and being sold to another for whatever that person wanted is beyond my understanding. Some say it was a sign of the times and the crudeness of the societal understanding then. I have read much on this and to me it was greed based just as much as it is today. Until we understand that no change will occur.

      1. jackclee lm profile image75
        jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        History is full of what you described and in the Bible as well. What is missing is the willingness on some to let go of the past. Healing begins with forgiveness. As a country, we need to move forward and not let the past chain us to the status quo. There will always be some racist in the world. We are an imperfect world. However, our country and laws and most citizens have evolved past the racism of the past. It is sad that some continue to hold on to these gripes and won't let go.
        In 2016 America, there is no reason why anyone can't get a good education, get healthcare, get food and be free. You cannot say the same about 90% of the rest of the world.

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Jacklee, I went to your page to look at your Hubs.  You mentioned not being able to discuss race with the Black people you associate with.  I am now understanding why.

          When you refer to the Black community, that is a concept I can't relate to.  A community lives in the same locale.  You listed some Black role models that are without a doubt accomplished men.  However, you seem to have no regard for the average American Black person that takes works in a factory, as a teacher, or does odd jobs to supplement his income.  My father, with an 8th grade education, worked 40 hours as a baggage handler.  Then he worked 6 days a week cleaning houses, painting, hauling things or whatever he could for us.  I have loads of cousins and uncles who were bricklayers.

          Other than give advice, what have you specifically done to mentor Black people.  When a person has nothing to give but advice, people tend to steer clear of you.  There are many Black people in the inner city; however there are many Black people with good paying jobs who live in places other than the inner city.  I don't live in the inner city but I help my family members and friends giving guidance, financial support when necessary, and praying and giving emotional support daily.

          Is there any Black person you are helping to accomplish the things you are talking about?

          Please don't take this in a mean way.   You may have a sincere desire to help but it sounds like you are looking down on Black people telling them why they aren't making it and what they need to do.

          1. jackclee lm profile image75
            jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I am glad you asked. I am not talking about your father because he seems to be doing just fine. When I talk about black community in general, I am focusing more on the inner city poor.
            Let me give you some background on what I've done personally since you asked. In 2000, IBM started a volunteer program called Aristotle 2000. I volunteered to be a big brother for a poor black youth who is having problems at home. His father is a truck driver who is on the road most of the time. He needed some guidance in preparing for high school. I spent time with him to provide just a role model and adult figure.
            When I was in college, I joined the fencing team at CCNY. You can read my autobiography and I have a whole chapter on my experience. The school is located in the center of Harlem NY. We have many black kids on our team. In fact, our team has all races and creed. We got along beautifully. Most of the families that attended CCNY were not well off. The school was essentially free public college at the time. However, we supported each other both on and off the fencing strip. I made some life long friends there.
            At IBM, one our our colleagues who is black and works as a PC technician. I mentioned him in one of my stories. His name was OJ and he refers to himself as the "good" OJ. He is a well adjusted young man, 10 years my junior and we got along well. He lived the good life straight and narrow. He came from a poor background and had sibliings that were troubled. He was different and got hired by IBM.
            Finally, after IBM, I worked for a non profit agency in Rockland county. It was a place that help people with disability to have a full and independent life. One of our co workers there is Jamacan black. She and I would have conversations over lunch sometimes and we cannot agree on our politics. She is one of the person I alluded to. I cannot get off first base talking about the prolbems with race. She told me that I could not understand their issues because my skin color is not black... What do you say after that?

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I understand exactly why the Jamaican lady told you you couldn't understand.

              1.  You say you use "inner city" interchangeably with Black.  The inner city includes other ethnicities.  The Hispanic inner city population is growing.

              2.  Not all Black people are poor.  27.4% poor is nothing to brag about bu

              Among racial and ethnic groups, African Americans had the highest poverty rate, 27.4 percent, followed by Hispanics at 26.6 percent and whites at 9.9 percent. 45.8 percent of young black children (under age 6) live in poverty, compared to 14.5 percent of white children.

              https://www.google.com/#q=what+percenta … in+poverty 

              3.  The statement "He's different." is very troubling.  This indicates that he is "not like the rest of Blacks."  The perception of Black is as is seen on television or passeddown through history.  Examples:  Black people are stupid.  Black people have small brains and are not as intelligent as white people

              Can you please explain what "different" means?

              1. jackclee lm profile image75
                jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I'll be glad to. By different, I mean he did not fit the stereotype of young blacks. He did not do drugs or smoke. He dressed neat and always pressed his own shirts. He is respectful and well spoken. He wants to learn and improve his standing. He is always helpful and willing to go the extra mile. I'm sure some of these qualities that got him hired in the first place. From our discussions, apparently, he is not the typical child in his family. Some of his siblings and cousins got into trouble with the law. He didn't go into details but it is apparent to me that personal behavior plays a role.
                Again, I want to emphasize, this is one of a few incidences I had. It is not to say "all" blacks are this and that...It is a pattern that is all too common.
                Why black teens don't get the jobs that get them started in a career? Why they don't stay in school and finish HS and get a degree? why they choose to use drugs or worst deal drugs... Why they dress unconventionally... why they join gangs? why they have babies out of wedlock in high numbers?
                Why they don't reject violence? Why they don't respect the law or police? why they choose confrontation ? So many questions...
                I get that blacks were dealt a bad hand from the start. However, that should not stop someone to get ahead by behaving what society expects. Getting a good education, help others, work hard, stay close to family, attend church services...all behaviors that will lead to a better outcome.

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I'll be glad to. By different, I mean he did not fit the stereotype of young blacks. He did not do drugs or smoke. He dressed neat and always pressed his own shirts. He is respectful and well spoken. He wants to learn and improve his standing. He is always helpful and willing to go the extra mile. I'm sure some of these qualities that got him hired in the first place. From our discussions, apparently, he is not the typical child in his family. Some of his siblings and cousins got into trouble with the law. He didn't go into details but it is apparent to me that personal behavior plays a role.
                  Again, I want to emphasize, this is one of a few incidences I had. It is not to say "all" blacks are this and that...It is a pattern that is all too common.
                  Why black teens don't get the jobs that get them started in a career? Why they don't stay in school and finish HS and get a degree? why they choose to use drugs or worst deal drugs... Why they dress unconventionally... why they join gangs? why they have babies out of wedlock in high numbers?
                  Why they don't reject violence? Why they don't respect the law or police? why they choose confrontation ? So many questions...
                  I get that blacks were dealt a bad hand from the start. However, that should not stop someone to get ahead by behaving what society expects. Getting a good education, help others, work hard, stay close to family, attend church services...all behaviors that will lead to a better outcome.

                  1. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Jackclee, You have provided the classic stereotype that you see on television.  How many people do you know personally that look like that and act like that?

                    When you talked about the Black guy that was hired, it sounded like he was the only Black person they could find that was articulate and ready to hire.

    9. Misfit Chick profile image82
      Misfit Chickposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      This is a really good question. I'm not so sure that slavery really needs to be discussed 'as a rule', anymore. For instance, I don't think it was necessary for Mrs. Obama to make the comment. It's not like slavery is supposed to be an issue for us, anymore. But, in this day and age, with the 'Black Lives Matter' movement clashing with the 'the BLM is a conspiracy' flipside - it was bound to cause a ruckus among conservatives who are uncomfortable being reminded about such ugly history.

      However, I also think in this case, Mrs Obama wasn't necessarily trying to irritate anyone - she was simply being the color that she is, commenting on a past historical situation in order to highlight it - because it IS an important thing to keep in mind and commemorate. I mean, WHO ELSE aside from her husband is going to be able to say such a thing for a while? Who else is going to think that it is something to treasure and point out how far we have come as a country in that racist regard?

      It was just a comment as innocent as any term of endearment; and the fact that any conservative came unglued just highlights how far we have yet to go. Stay awake.

      1. wilderness profile image78
        wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Don't know if they still do, but Germany used to keep some concentration camps open and available to the public to tour - school children were required to visit at least once during their schooling.

        Remembering history, both the good and bad, is not a bad thing.  Let's not forget what our country has done in both cases and try to learn from the past.

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I LOVE you wilderness!!!

          1. wilderness profile image78
            wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            *shrug*  It is as foolish to forget or bury the undesirable parts of our history as it is to demand that a third party pay reparations to yet a fourth party when neither one had anything to do with what happened centuries ago. 

            It makes about as much sense as to ask today's blacks to pay the descendants of poor, deep south sharecroppers that didn't have slaves because they didn't volunteer to BE slaves for him.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I agree with you on reparations.  Where will that money come from???

              What confuses me about the end of slavery which Blacks celebrate, it seems to anger many whites.  Are they angry because there was slavery or because slavery ended.

              It should have been a win/win situation, but was it?

              What do you think?

              1. wilderness profile image78
                wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Bearing in mind that a very small percentage of the population owned slaves, it seems improbable that people didn't like it ending.

                If it's modern people you mean, it might be that they view it as a request for something in return for being a slave (though I have a hard time thinking any more than a handful are angry it ended).  Or perhaps they view it as a slap in the face, continually renewed, at what happened and they perceive it as being blamed for it.  Which, in all too many cases, they are.  Anyone with a caucasian background is, whether they kept slaves, their remote ancestors did or their entire ancestry had nothing whatsoever to do with anything remotely connected to slavery.

            2. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
              wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13134128.jpg

              Slaves and land were the main forms of wealth in the US before 1860. The most profitable activity on Wall Street was the slave trade. You have a talent for building strawmen, and creating amazing fiction. Your suggestion that a white, dirt poor potato farmer in Idaho, or an inbred hillbilly in Appalachia would be responsible for reparations is laughable, but very convincing to the uneducated. Here I have provided a "short list" of American companies that created fortunes through the slave trade. These are first parties, and the descendants of those slaves are also the first parties. And there can be no argument.

              Believe it or not, African slaves were also human beings. It is not uncommon for parents, grand parents, and great grand parents, to provide for the future of their children,and successive generations. Everyone knows this to be true. Consequently, it is not unreasonable to expect that African slaves would have desired that their descendants would someday benefit from their forced, and inhumane servitude. A horror that lasted nearly 400 years! Saying "We're Sorry!" or handing out welfare checks simply isn't enough. Reparations must not only be delivered as a single payment of cash, but also in the form of guaranteed job opportunities and economic parity. The companies I have listed here are the ones who are obligated more than anyone else to pay reparations, as they, and all of those along the gravy train, are the ones who have benefited most from a crime against humanity. They have the means to pay, and it would be in their best interest to start paying A.S.A.P.. The recent mantra of the righteous: "No Justice No Peace" is not exclusively tied to police brutality.


              Short List of American Companies Who Must Pay Reparations


              AIG – bought American General Financial which owns US Life Insurance Company. US Life used to insure the lives of slaves.


              Aetna – insured the lives of slaves in the 1850s.

              Bank of America – grew in part out of the Bank of Metropolis, which accepted slaves as collateral.

              Brooks Brothers – got its start making clothes for slaves!

              Brown Brothers Harriman – a Wall Street bank that owned hundreds of slaves and lent millions to Southern planters, merchants and cotton traders.

              Brown University – named for the Brown brothers who gave money to the university. Two were slave traders, another ran a factory that used slave-grown cotton. University Hall was built in part by slave labour.

              CSX – rented slaves to build rail lines.

              Fleet Boston – grew out of Providence Bank, founded by one of the Brown brothers (see Brown University above), a slave trader who owned slave ships. The bank made money from the slave trade. Providence, Rhode Island was the home port for many slave ships.

              Harvard Law School – endowed with money from Isaac Royall, an Antiguan slave owner and sugar grower.

              JP Morgan Chase – made a fortune from the slave trade. Predecessor banks (Citizens Bank, Canal Bank in Louisiana) accepted slaves as collateral, taking possession of 1,250 slaves from owners who defaulted on loans.

              New York Life – insured slaves. Of its first 1,000 insurance polices, 339 were policies on slaves.

              Norfolk Southern – the Mobile & Girard, now part of Norfolk Southern, rented slaves to work on the railroad. Central of Georgia, also now part of the company, owned slaves.


              Princeton – raised money and recruited students from rich, slave-owning families in the South and the Caribbean. Princeton was not alone in hitting up slave owners and traders for money and students. So did:

              Harvard,
              Yale,
              Penn,
              Columbia,
              Rutgers,
              Brown,
              Dartmouth and the
              University of Delaware.
              By the middle 1700s, most Princeton students were the sons of slave owners. Many of Columbia’s students were sons of slave traders.

              Tiffany’s – founded with profits from a cotton mill in Connecticut that processed slave-grown cotton.

              USA Today – its parent company, Gannett, had links to slavery.

              Wells Fargo – Georgia Railroad & Banking Company and the Bank of Charleston owned or accepted slaves as collateral. They later became part of Wells Fargo by way of Wachovia. (In the 2000s Wells Fargo targeted blacks for predatory lending.)

    10. profile image0
      Lizam1posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I think this is a brave question.  It is imperative that our history never be forgotten in the hope that it will not be repeated.  I admire Mrs. Obama for her ability to cut to the chase and state what was and what is.  The rights and wrongs of the past can only be undone when we are not afraid to look at them and to speak about them, not in hatred or judgement, building together a future that promises that this horrific history will and should never be repeated.  Sadly there are hundreds of thousands on enslaved children feeding the west right now because we enable the slavery of children too poor and uneducated to stand up for their rights from parents whose spirits have been destroyed by greed and selfishness.

    11. kaiyan717 profile image81
      kaiyan717posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I can only speak on my lens and what everyone must understand is that everyone has their own lens to look through. No one has had the same experiences, so these issues means different things to different people.
      Slavery has not happened in this country in a couple hundred years and when it was going on, there was only a small fraction of the population that had slaves. I think it should be talked about in a historical sense, not as though it is a current issue.
      We do not have slavery issues, we have discrimination issues. So when slavery is brought up in such a way, most people will not see how that pertains to now. Every country is founded on fighting, stealing, enslaving for thousands of years. No one was spared if you go back far enough. Indigenous populations have always felt the brunt of those times. American Indians only make up about 2% of the population now because like many indigenous populations, they were practically wiped out.
      Racism cannot be ended with laws and regulations. It is with each situation, each interaction that our lens is shaped. So let us discuss the now. What needs to happen now is more understanding and kindness towards all, to change another person's lens just a little bit more. Laws do not change hearts, people do.
      The extremes on both sides make it difficult for most to have a productive dialogue, especially online. I have had great conversations in person with those I am close with of all races, but it seems that to discuss things now on an online platform is rather tricky. Everyone is afraid of being taken the wrong way.
      White guilt and white privilege are hard for many people to feel and understand. I think the bottom half that are struggling in today's economy does not feel very privileged and this has created a sense of resentment in a way for some who are struggling just to make it. You have millions of whites in poverty that will not relate to the idea that they are privileged in any way. You have millions in the middle class that are not going to relate that all of the hard work they have done to scrape up the economic ladder was due to their skin color and not their own hard work. Many people cannot relate to a guilt for something that they had nothing to do with hundreds of years ago.
      Thus two sides divided and our country is becoming more divided. It isn't because people don't care, but the subject is a minefield and no one wants to explode.

      1. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Girl keep talking!  That's the point I've been trying to make.  It was real and meant something different based on your position at that time.  We need to acknowledge history but use it in a positive way to do better.  It should not divide us.  It should unite us.

        The slave owners are DEAD.  The slaves are DEAD.  There is nothing white people can do to change what happened and they didn't inherit the position of slave owners.  Black people are no longer slaves or property. 

        Issues now are pride and unforgiving hearts.  My sister is angry at my deceased parents whom I love dearly.  I see them differently than she did.  Her anger is destroying her.  I love her and am willing to help in any way I can but I will not feel guilty for what I did not do nor had control over.

        Thank you for your thoughts.  We need more comments like this.  They are conciliatory.  As the discussion goes on, I'm seeing very good comments.  I hope we continue.

        At the end, if one person is no longer bitter but will to communicate with compassion, we've done a good job.

        1. colorfulone profile image80
          colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          The Islamic State West Africa, Boko Haram, kidnaps females in Nigeria and sells them as salves.  I hope that you will keep them in your prayers and thoughts.  It is with a heavy heart that I keep the missing women and girls in my prayers.  Arabs have black slaves.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I pray for violated people and the loved ones of those horribly killed all over the world.  I pray for the people who live a life of hatred that allows them to rape and kill innocent children.  I pray that they will realize that love builds and hate destroys.  It seems they love to destroy.  It's unfathomable.

            1. colorfulone profile image80
              colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Its about the money and the greedy, divide and conquer.  We need to stand united because that is at the root of it.

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I am willing to try most things Colorful!

    12. dianetrotter profile image62
      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      “The stressor at work here is the perceived and real loss of the social and economic advantages of being white.”

      http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc … ss/492731/ 

      I finally read the rest of this article titled:  The Original Underclass, Poor white Americans’ current crisis shouldn’t have caught the rest of the country as off guard as it has.

      The article is quite relevant to the discussion of race and status and reaction to Michelle Obama's statement.

      1. profile image0
        ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I find this article is  "all in " about the problems in America !   Interestingly  , I find myself a part of the upbringing  described in that article .   The group of people somehow surviving the abject poverty described  in the article being of my own  personal experience .     Ten kids  , working class parents  [both of them ] in the fifties and sixties  seventies .   

        And THAT exactly is why I always find myself disgusted with the  racism  rhetoric , the racial divide , the  whine of  people of any ethnic  division  in America , Poverty  is poverty , hunger is hunger  , being cold in the winter winds  feels exactly the same  ,No matter ones skin color , no matter ones ethnic origins !   So when    'false flags ' of  the cries and  screams of people calling out especially racism , systematic bias ,  all of the "slavery "  rhetoric  ,  all of the "blame the other race ," comes to the  forefront  ? My mind goes back to those days  of hunger , poverty ,   economic desperation .

        Why can't people discuss  race in a  productive manner ?     Because for many  it is the race of  poverty against richness .  Not the color of  ones skin  , especially  when claiming a certain victimhood  simply because of color - as if  because  one is "white "  they are somehow better off  simply because of that ? Please .

        Time for  everyone to get mature , to get real ,no matter what skin tone !

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Clearly, in my opinion, there is racism today.  Dylan Roof's action in Charleston was to start a race war.  The KKK supports Donald Trump.  The Black guy in Dallas that killed all of those police officers was inolved in some hate groups and/or suffered from PTSD.  I related a couple of my recent situations a couple of posts back. 

          There are many other incidents that show up on social media often.  Can you deny that they are racists and/or racist actions?  Or are you saying there should not be any racism.  We should be working together to have a better society?

          Thank you for reading the article.  I tend to like to read short articles.

        2. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13141002.jpg

          A Racist Is A Terrible Thing To Waste

          I am more human than human. If I got any more "real" I wouldn't be able to keep my feet on the ground, as I would no longer be bound by the laws of gravity. Read, Learn, Comprehend, and behold the beauty of the truth!

          There is no need in looking for a cure for heart disease. The American Heart Association is simply wasting time and money. Why?  Because people are dying of cancer. Whey should we care about heart disease when people are dying of cancer? And there is no need in seeking a cure for cancer because people are dying of diabetes. Why should we waste our time trying to cure heart disease and cancer when people are dying of diabetes?  And seeking a cure for diabetes is a waste of time because people are suffering from alzheimers disease. And seeking a cure for alzheimers is a waste of time, not only because of all of the aboce, but also because over 40,000 people die in the United States each year as the result of MVC's. And there is no need in preventing MVC's because people are going to die anyway. So there is really no point in worrying about the prevention of disease, or fatal accidents. The only two things we need to worry about are Paying Taxes, and Funeral Arrangements.

          •Paying taxes: Paying taxes is of the utmost importance. Without taxes, the racist government of the United States couldn't fund the proxy war in Syria, or arm terrorist groups like ISIS. Without perpetual war, the rich could not get richer. And in order to have perpetual war, it is necessary to create terrorist organizations to justify the war.

          • Funeral Arrangements: It is important to take care of our funeral arrangements well in advance. Otherwise, our racist relatives, and our racist loved ones, will have to fight over who has to pay funeral expenses with their share of the inheritance.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Funerals can get nasty.  Deaths bring out the worst in humanity.

    13. dianetrotter profile image62
      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you everyone, regardless of your position, for having a civil discussion.  Conversation is always productive when we don't personally attack each other.

      Have a nice day everyone!

      1. jackclee lm profile image75
        jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        It's fine to discuss our various opinions. However, I don't see a lot of action as a result. It is frustrating for me that so little progress is being made. Where are the movers and shakers of our generation? where is Dr. King or Ronald Reagan when we need them?
        We have a broken political system controlled by the elites (money class).
        They are perfectly happy for the two party to biker and attack each other while nothing gets resolved. Meanwhile, they are making money on the backs of the people and the government (via mis-spent tax dollars).
        The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
        Why do people keep voting the same people into office?
        Food for thought.
        Thanks Diana for posing the question. I am going to work on my book...

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Change won't come from the government and it shouldn't!  Change starts in our hearts.  Who should take action?  US!!!  If not us, then who?

          When I quit my first job, I did so because I wanted to help kids.  I became frustrating because, as a teacher, I was caught up in the system.  However, I did have little groups that I helped each year.  In 2013, i received a phone call at work.  A student I taught in 1998 looked on the Internet to find me.  He invited me to his studio in LA. 

          Back in 1998 this kid was failing all of his classes.  His mom made him work at night to help support the family.  He would come to school late and the school threatened to kick him out.  I would call him every morning at 6 am to make sure he got up and got to school.  When he came to my class, I would let him sleep in the back of the room.  He said he couldn't understand anything in any of the classes.  Today he is a supervisor on his job and a good father.

          Last year a former student who was in the same class with this male student friended me on FB.  She works for UPS and is a supervisor on her job.  She is beautiful and does a lot of modeling.

          I could go on and on about students I friended along the way and they thank me for the impact I had on their lives.  Half of my FB friends are former students.

          The BIble says, "The poor you will always have with you."  We can't wave a magic want and then have no more poor people.  We can help those that are in our paths through work or as a volunteer.  Verbally giving advice will have zero impact.  When you give of yourself, people see that you care.  When they know that you care, they will listen.

          In my economics class, years ago, we study about Thomas Malthus.  He was concerned that "the food supply was increasing arithmatically but the population was increasing geometrically."
          If we help people, and then each of those people helps other people, we can have the same impact.
          If starts with us.

          1. jackclee lm profile image75
            jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Diana, I get it, you did your part and the people around you are better of. That is great. i applaud you. You are correct, government can't do this. That is what conservatives have been saying for years and no one listened. I am willing to bet you vote Democratic every election. Right? Why are you supporting a party that is for big government? More entitlements? More regulations? Common core? i can go on...
            You seems to understand human nature but yet you don't extend that knowledge to apply to government.
            How do we get more teachers like you into our public schools? Who is preventing this?

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Why do you think I vote Democrat every year?

              1. jackclee lm profile image75
                jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                That is turning the question on me. I don't know for sure but I can venture a guess. I think the black community have been deceived by the Democratic party into believing they are the party of  good and they are there to help all people... In fact, they have done little for the poor and the black and other minorities. Their progressive policies in the past have brought our country to the current state. Where real unemployment is near 10%, higher in the minorities precinct, food stamps use is near all time high, 50 percent of Americans living from paycheck to paycheck, wages have been stagnant for years... while Wall street and investor class have done very well. Guess who donates to both parties...and who controls policies in Washington?
                Meanwhile, Conservatives have been demonized for wanting to do the "right" thing. Reduce taxes to stimulate growth and cut spending to help lower our debt and deficits. Giving parents school choices to help with our educations system... and many other alternative policies that do not see the light of day.
                Anyway, food for thought.
                I will suggest one book to read, Hillary's America by Dinesh D'Souza. You will learn some history...

                1. Credence2 profile image82
                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Standard conservative dogma, Jack. I am well educated and am quite aware of whom it is I vote for and why. Don't you find that a bit arrogant? How do you explain that support for the Democrats among Blacks transcends all income and educational levels. Yet, who is it that are so sure that we are being collectively 'duped'?

                2. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  This is part of the stereotype Jackclee! I'm an Independent.  I did not vote for President Obama either time.  I don't hate him but came unglued when he went to the bathroom issue back in April.  I have very high regard for Michelle Obama's education, accomplishments and the way she dresses.  I'm trying to think of the last time I voted for a Democrat for president.

                  Until I came to California at the age of 22, I only knew one person getting food stamps.  It was a schoolmate who was 18 and taking care of her 3 brothers and 1 sister because their mother died.  My dad worked 12 to18 hours a day.  We never got welfare and never had a food stamp.  My father wanted nothing to do witih applying for something free which he thought they might take back later.  He worked for everything we had.

                  I have had people call me a racist against Black people because of some of my views.  I don't have loyalty to any party.  I believe too many people are having babies without being married and see how it impacts the children trying to attend school.  AND there are racists.  One does not negate the other.  There is work to be done by everybody.  It doesn't matter that we didn't not create the problem.  What is important is that we all participate in a solution.

                  I know white people today were not involved in slavery; however, the existence of slavery is shown in history of my ancestors.  I'm not an angry Black woman.  I don't think Michelle Obama is an angry Black woman.  A real discussion of race includes the resentment of Black people who overcome the obstacles that are there every day.  It is a human emotion for people to be jealous of each other.  When Black people overcome, it really upsets those who like to thing we are less than they are.  That is really what upset people about Michelle Obama.  They distort pictures of her to try to make her look like an animal and distort her what she says.  My dad used to always say, "Get yourself a good eduation.  Nobody can take that from you."  My father was a wise man with an 8th grade education who always encouraged us to go farther than he did.  All Blacks are not poor.  All Blacks are not on welfare (numerically, more white people are on welfare).  All Blacks don't like in the inner city.  All Blacks are not Democrats.  I'll stop here.  I don't want to write so much that no one reads.

    14. jackclee lm profile image75
      jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Deleted

      1. wilderness profile image78
        wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I'm sorry, but the constant string of links to your hubs is getting tiring.  Self promotion in the forums IS against HP policy, you know.

        1. jackclee lm profile image75
          jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Sorry to annoy you. Do you think this is self promotion? I have better things to do. I am trying to expand the discussion. If you have better ideas, bring it on... That is what freedom of Speech is all about.

          1. wilderness profile image78
            wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Under guidelines from HP, it is self promotion.  Posting links to your hubs is prohibited but for asking for help in improving them, and that is available only in specific forums.

            1. jackclee lm profile image75
              jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Thanks for the information. Always learn something...

            2. jackclee lm profile image75
              jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I have deleted my post here and started a new forum as you suggested...

          2. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Jackclee, why don't you start with a forum, rather than a hub.  When you have enough input, then write a hub.  You have pretty much stated your views several times.  You need to write in a way that will encourage people to respond.

            1. jackclee lm profile image75
              jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I have engaged in forum discussions as you are aware. The problem I see with forum discussions is that there is no structure or focus. It is just random ideas back an forth. What I am aiming for is a real discussion  on ideas and policies that can change society in a positive way. I have tried this format in other discussions with another hubber on climate change. I think it will be a good way to educate and disseminate information. Information that are not available in the general press.

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I try to keep people focused on the topic when I do a forum.  However, I thought it was a good idea to let people say what they want hear as long as it is race-related.

                It seems you want to discuss the merits of the conservative position.  Perhaps you should look through the Hubs and forums to see if others have written similar Hubs.  I hope you get your audience.

                1. jackclee lm profile image75
                  jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Thanks for the suggestion.
                  I will do that.
                  What is your impression of conservatives?
                  What is your opinion of Dr. Carson, and Clearance Thomas and Thomas Sowell?
                  Just curious.
                  Do you know why they don't resonate with the Black community?

                  1. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    I'm sure most kids don't know who they are.  Children, as I did as a child, are not interested in the news.  I use to show news clips of things that were happening.  The kids never heard of them.  You are speaking as an older, intellectual person.  When you were a child, who were your role models.

                    Unless things have changed, I don't thing there is anything in textbooks about them. 

                    I strong dislike reference to the "Black" community.  We don't all live together.  I suppose the term is used because of the color of our skin.  We are all different as I continue to say.  The life experiences are different.  There are probably a couple of kids somewhere who are interested in them.  My nephew, while attending Georgetown, met Clarence Thomas.

                    Are you part of an Asian community?  How does that community function?

    15. dianetrotter profile image62
      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Some all this the Zimmerman 2.0 case.  Should Black youths be shot if they are not in their neighborhoods.  http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/11/us/raleig … index.html 

      Here we go again!  Should you shoot on the sidewalk from your closed garage door?

      1. Credence2 profile image82
        Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Of course not, COLORADO had a "make my day" law, where the homeowner could resort to lethal force if confronting a prowler on his or her property. You can't use itto stop someone from stealing your pickup truck, or in any case where your life or someone else's in your immediate vicinity is not threatened.

        Zimmerman was irresponsible and contributed to the tragedy that was Trayvon Martin. Then there was the case in Texas when a grandfatherly type killed two prowlers, who were running off with his neighbor's television sets. Some sort of Texas Good Neighbor Law, or some such thing. The man called the police saying that there was a burglary in progress. He told them that he was armed with a shotgun and was going to intercede to stop it. I think that it may have been about 7-10 years ago. Anyway, the cops told him to stand down and await for the arrival of a police officer on the scene. But this man seemed anxious to confront the two hispanic men and see just see how effective his new shot gun was against living tissue and bone. He disregarded instructions from the police and confronted the men, both unarmed, shooting them both fatally in the back as they tried to flee. From what I could surmise, he was never in danger but chose to put himself into harms way.

        Of course, Texas, being Texas, the man was acquitted as a "Mr Whipple" type, normally not capable of harming a fly. Living in Colorado at the time, I knew that my state had a more evolved and sophisticated viewpoint about these matters. I was confident that this sort of event and outcome could not happen where I lived.

        There should be be serious repercussions for anyone involved in using firearms for anything other than defense of human life, and not in cases of crimes against property.

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Since this is compared to the Trayvon Martin case, I'm wondering if people are thinking differently now.

          Last weekend, Zimmerman reported to the police that he was discussing Trayvon Martin and someone punched him.  No one was arrested.  I read from a couple of places that he had been bragging.  It was a bar/restaurant so I guess there were witnesses.

          1. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Zimmerman is a chronic nincompoop, his day is coming.....

        2. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          It really complicates a situation when people are found to be committing a crime.  They deserve their day in court; HOWEVER, I can support them when they have done nothing wrong.

          I't tell my students that the crime is not worth the potential of losing your life.  Avoid all appearances of evil.

    16. dianetrotter profile image62
      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Simone Biles tauted as the world's greatest all around gymnast

      https://usagym.org/pages/athletes/athle … ?id=164887

      Do accomplishments like this help minimize stereotypes of Black people or is she an anomaly?

      1. profile image0
        ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Diane  ,I hope one thing you have learned by now in these  forums is that the some opinions are that  "The stereotypes of  black people "  first , are pretty much create  BY black people . One more city grows hostile . --part of Milwaukee this morning is in ashes .    It seems that  only one race in America has grown " out of control  ",  Why ?
        Who wins when a city is on fire ?   Why does only one race in America decide that fracturing it's own  culture into millions of pieces is the best solution .   Families torn apart by crime , drugs , alcoholism ,  murder ,  when rioting becomes a family activity  - you lose focus on  positive change . When broken families are the normal household  ,  there is never a positive outcome in the end ? 

        Why can't people  discuss race  in a positive  manner ?....So you can  ask a  hard question now , can you accept  a hard answer ?

        Because  quite frankly ,  it appears that  the destruction  of your race is being perpetrated from the inside out ,  not from the outside in as many , many have implied  .

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Hi ahorse, I just finished reading about this.  It's awful.  This is the kind of incident that divides African Americans and those of us who speak against crime and other activities in a city like this are called "Oreos."

          The crime that is going on is typical of a community like this.  My point is "not all Black people live in communities like this."  Last week I brought up the book J D Vance wrote, "Hillbilly Elegy," which is a counterpart to what is going on in impoverished inner city areas.  J D Vance is speaking from his experience growing and the resentment of middle class white people who feel that is no one that speaks for them and no laws that protect them.

          As I continually repeat, I'm sure you work with black people that don't riot.  You possibly live with Black people that don't behave like this.  If you notice pundits, political surrogates, and other Black people who hate this type of behavior.  When the crime is committed by a Black person(s), the Black race should not be held responsible.  Similarly, when a crime is committed by a white person, Dylan Roof, the white race should not be indicted.

          If you read the article, a few people on the scene texted people and gather 200 - 800 people.  I'm sure the elderly people and children that live in the area did not participate.  In addition, there are people that just need a place to live and can't afford to live anywhere else.

          I'm angry about it and hope they catch every single person involved and pursue just.  I am not out there rioting and I never have.  Most Black people with jobs are not out there.

          The "good" race/ "bad" race is what fuels racial prejudices.

          How did I do ahorse?

          1. Live to Learn profile image59
            Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I think much of what you say rings true. But, then we can't really have a conversation on race. You have little in common with an inner city thug beyond a possible matching of skin tones.

            Someday, we will realize that most of the divide isn't about skin color but more about socioeconomic upbringing.

            1. colorfulone profile image80
              colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Social Engineering of Black Americans.  sad

            2. profile image0
              ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I disagree with one thing , socio economics  isn't the  real , the best reason for this  violence , for  politically divisive rhetoric ,   for thuggery   , for a slanted and divisive  - even caustic media  ,  for the apathy and detachment of our leadership ,   I have known poor people my entire life and they are many of them  far,   far better people  than those who come from the campus' social reformation activists   , from the media , from the politically motivated  socialism  activism .

              Poverty alone is NOT an excuse .   when in these situational   and agenda-ed civil disturbances and low quality job markets  , you move , you walk , you run , you  take the subway and leave that environment for the betterment of your family .

              1. Live to Learn profile image59
                Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I didn't suggest poverty was to blame. Maybe we use a different definition for the term socioeconomic.

            3. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              There you go!  Remember also, there are kids that make it out of that environment.

              I have spent quite a bit of time, during the day, in the inner city teaching school.  I have had students that were in gangs or had relatives in games.  I'd like to think I've had some influence on them so that they are making better choices down the line.  Teachers, pastors, mentors, the strong inner will, causes young people to make the right choices.  If Jack, wants to make a difference, he can.  It is not going to be a miraculous, overnight occurence/investment.  You have to pour yourselves into these kids.  Giving a lecture, turning and leaving is not the answer.

              I have a former student get killed last year.  It haunts me today.

          2. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I have seen book reviews about the Vance's work and his struggle to shake off much of his Appalachian past, I trust that it is an interesting read?

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I haven't read it yet.  Since I mentioned here, I see the guy doing interviews all over the place.  I plan to buy it.  It would be nice to have a book club to read and discuss books like this.  I guess that wouldn't go over well either.

          3. profile image0
            ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            You do more than fine  Diane , In fact ,it IS leadership like yours that will eventually  cross a threshold  of enlightenment   for us all , your heart is good !  Know that .     I hold our media completely responsible for almost all public and political divide right now ,   I believe many people do . It is the condescending and sensationalizing  attitude of  a lousy and  ill mannered  immaturity IN the media too !

            We all , I know I do , forget that there are extremely reasonable  people  herein these forums  ,   I tend to be a bit jaded  especially BECAUSE of the media for one ,  the lousy  leadership in politics for two , and three because  I grew up in white poverty    , call me white trash if you will , I am proud however of the  reasoned and  conscientious  upraising my mother provided even in that poverty , she taught us that from a very young age  to accept those around us and especially  those that we meet in life who are "different " than us  for the real human beings that they are . It truly offends me to see the false  warring going on .

            I am extremely offended by our and my  being called racist  by some here who dwell in the forums for immature reasons only  ,  at least you have never done that .   There are those who don't belong  here with a voice or a key -board on all sides of these issues .    We could , I believe  , easily cure  the racial issues  in America  .

            --Personal behavior accountability needs to be  re-prioritized in our schools , our churches  , our youth groups .
            --All of America right now should demand our media  be  scrutinized for false political  agenda  and legally punished and  lose their licensing for practicing in media if need be .
            -Political leadership in inner cities needs drastic  accountability standards and oversight  .
            --Social programs originally  designed for the real poor , should be taken from the abusers , and there are many "on the system " too long ..
            --Nationally , there needs to be a  jobs  saving program for keeping  lower tech jobs IN America, in the inner cities , in the  right neighborhoods  .
            --Our supreme courts need to focus on  a "No pleaing down " of violent crime cases  once again . The revolving door of the justice system needs to have the batteries removed .
            -- Washington , congress and senate  , needs a major changing of the guards  by the people voting them out and adopting term limits !

            There is far more to do , How we do it  is the next question .....:-}

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Please do not call yourself a "white" pejorative!!!  I never practiced saying that about other people.  After I left Arkansas, not before, I realized that "j*p and "inj*n" were negatives.  I hope I never have to say for using them.  I have been upset and said "s**t" but less as time goes on.

              We are all complicated, each individually and wonderfully made.  Many don't understand that.  I feel Hollywood has had a negative impact on the average person.  They have kids out of wedlock, take drugs, go to jail and it usually no big deal.  Kids should realize that they don't have the money that the Kardashians or Lindsay Lohan or others.

              I took a course in community revitalization and hope to go back to make a difference in my neighborhood.  I'm experiencing challenges there with what other people are proposing.

              Inner city youth must be taught and shown that having kids at a young age limits their possibilities.  BTW, Simone Biles has one heck of a story.  Her mother was a drug addict and her grandfather adopted her.  She started flipping off the mailbox when she was 6.  The gymnastics coach at school saw her imitating her students.  the coach thought she was better than the students and the rest is hisotry.  She is believed to be the best athlete in the world.  Kids need hopes and dreams.  They need to be based on their own strengths and then they need others to encourage them.

              I'm really ticked on the Milwaukee thing now.  Some of those people were looking for a reason to do something crazy.  The alderman was speaking about it.  I hope they have cameras and will hold people accountable.

    17. dianetrotter profile image62
      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      False statement's like Trump's perpetuate racism.

      “You’re living in poverty,” Trump said. “Your schools are no good. You have no jobs - 58 percent of your youth is unemployed. What the hell do you have to lose?”


      1.  "You're living in poverty."
            According to statistics, 26/27% of Black people are living in party.  (You indicates all/inclusive)

      2.  Your schools are no good.
            Stop blaming teachers.  There should be community involvement/mandatory participation by parents.

      3.  You have no jobs!
            Statistics state that 8/9% of Blacks are unemployed - 1/7 of the 58% figure Trump quoted.  Stastisticians have told him that you don't include kids in high school and college.  The high number supports his narrative.

      4.  What the hell do you have to lose?
            His past record shows nothing that he has done to improve Black employment as an employer and he has discriminated as his father did.  A bird in the hand may be worth two in a bush.

      Who says all Blacks are Democrat???????

      1. peoplepower73 profile image85
        peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Diane: He is pathetic.  He thinks by insulting black people that he is going to get their votes. And this is after he changed his campaign people.  They have no empathy and if I didn't know better, it looks like they are on a self-destruct course. 

        The demographic of North Carolina has changed, because there are many High-Tech areas where educated people have moved into of all different colors and races.  Most of these people don't buy his B.S.and are turning the state from red to blue.

        1. Credence2 profile image82
          Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Peoplepower, it is most interesting to watch the transition of an old time lockstep GOP state like North Carolina evolve from a red herring into a blue swan. It joins the ranks of progressism due to diversity, education. That is why my native Colorado is no longer nothing like the crimson red states that surround it, with the noted exception of New Mexico, which has a high proportionate Hispanic population, who of course, lean Democratic.

          North Carolina's burgeoning hi-tech industries require a level of education to operate,  not commonly found amongst rightwingers. We keep this up, we are going to get Georgia and Arizona to come away from the 'Dark Side'. The pressure is on, will the Lone Star state be a possibility in coming years?

        2. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          People, someone has a question up about "Why can't people change their minds after hearing the facts?"  From responses, facts are based on individual interpretation.

          People will never come together to respect each other if they genuinely have no desire to do so.

        3. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Thank God for logic!

      2. wilderness profile image78
        wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        With this post you have show one answer to your OP question.

        1.  "You're living in poverty."
              According to statistics, 26/27% of Black people are living in party.  (You indicates all/inclusive)

        While it is true that only 27% of blacks live in poverty, it is still about twice the rate of the country as a whole.  There is thus a large grain of truth here.  Trump exaggerates, but you ignore a very pertinent fact.

        2.  Your schools are no good.
              Stop blaming teachers.  There should be community involvement/mandatory participation by parents.

        But he didn't blame teachers.  And there are far too many schools that are both predominately black AND are pathetic.  You even say so by by giving some reason it is so.  This, too, then has too much truth to ignore, and changing the topic to teachers doesn't change that. 

        3.  You have no jobs!
              Statistics state that 8/9% of Blacks are unemployed - 1/7 of the 58% figure Trump quoted.  Stastisticians have told him that you don't include kids in high school and college.  The high number supports his narrative.

        Trumps statement was "You have no jobs - 58 percent of your youth is unemployed.".  It isn't true (the proper figure is around 20%) but it is still around double the unemployment rate for youth nationwide - you've once more ignored pertinent information to try and make the statement totally false.  And yes, there are statistics for youth, ages 16-24.  http://www.bls.gov/news.release/youth.nr0.htm

        4.  What the hell do you have to lose?
              His past record shows nothing that he has done to improve Black employment as an employer and he has discriminated as his father did.  A bird in the hand may be worth two in a bush.

        If any of his business has hired even a single black person then it has done something to improve black employment.  That you might wish him to hire blacks disproportionate to the local demographics does not mean that he is doing nothing and even if you could prove illegal discrimination it still wouldn't mean he does nothing.  Another exaggeration, then, because he doesn't do what you would like him to do.

        You don't like Trump, you find him to be racist.  I get that.  But to take his statements and either complain about something else or pretend that there is no truth in them doesn't solve anything.  There is some truth (although he exaggerates as badly as you did) and they are points that should be discussed and solutions found for, not simply shoved aside because you don't like the man.  It makes discussing race very difficult when you do that.

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13156589.jpg
          Even today in our "enlightened" society, many women fear to come forward and report rape and sexual abuse. This is because they don't want to suffer the added humility of having their private life unfairly scrutinized in public, or to be portrayed as someone who was "asking for it". And who would believe the victim who created her own misery? Considering this unfortunate fact of life that predates racism, it serves no good purpose to highlight the spurious notion  that in order to minimize the possibility of sexual abuse a woman should dress modestly, or never walk alone at night. First of all, it is nothing less than an outrage to suggest that in a civilized society a potential victim must modify their behavior in order to accommodate the potential perpetrator. Furthermore, it is well known that a majority of sexual abuse is perpetrated by a known assailant, such as a boyfriend, spouse, relative, or casual acquaintance.

          Suggesting band-aid solutions is not only demeaning to women, but also serves to perpetuate the problem of sexual violence. And we can see the same evil at work when considering racism in America. Highlighting the obvious as a "smoking gun" serves no other purpose than to further a racist narrative. And that narrative would have us believe that blacks are disproportionately incarcerated, unemployed, and living below the poverty line because of intellectual inferiority, and a general lack of morality and motivation. In the racist mind, these alleged  inherent traits are what leads to fatherless families, drug addiction, gang violence, and poverty.

          Many white Americans are comfortable with this wonderful fiction because it helps to support their idealistic and racist interpretation of the American Dream. But the truth is not so pleasant to look at.

          Read • Comprehend • Learn:

          There are three distinct groups here in the United States that have created a perpetual wheel of poverty and crime for blacks living in the inner city. The first group are the white racists who believe it is the destiny of the white race to rule the world. The second, and much larger group, are the white Americans who have, since before the Civil War, suffered from an apathetic "go along to get along" attitude. This is the "We Are The World", "Don't Worry Be Happy"crowd. Last but not least, the third group are the black people who are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. This group consists of those whose minds have been successfully colonized, and who are otherwise known as "Uncle Toms".


          The only thing I find remarkable about Donald Trump's brand of racism is that, unlike the "real" politicians, he has expressed more of his true feelings about minorities in public. And so, I will give him an "A" for honesty, but no dinner invitation, and that courtesy extends to you as well.

          1. wilderness profile image78
            wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            You forgot the final, largest, group of all - those of all races, whether black, white, hispanic, indian or any other, that wish an end to racism.  You would do well to join whatever group appeals to your sense of history and put your efforts into ending it rather than growing it by claiming that any race (in your case, caucasian) is composed of only racists. 

            The entire world, not only the US, suffers from such racist views and the eagerness to demonize an entire race because of a few is the single largest remaining stumbling block standing before real acceptance of all peoples.  Apply yourself and destroy any racism within yourself - you can become a part of the answer rather than a weapon of racism.

            1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
              wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13156728.png

              I have forgotten no group because there is no other groups responsible for the problems of the inner city. Here you come yet again with your strawman! If the so-called fourth group  is against racism, then this group is not part of the problem. Thus, there is no reason to include this group with the other three. But if this is the largest group, as you suggest, then they are also members of the second group. If this imaginary "largest group of all" were not an apathetic majority, then the problem of inner city poverty and violence would not exist now, yesterday, or tomorrow.

              And it is quite evident that you and others have vigorously sought to peddle the fiction that I have suggested all whites are racists. I have made it very clear that my views on racism are not formed through some ridiculous notion like Manifest Destiny, but are based on my personal experience, as well as the historical record. When the evil that  a man has experienced and endured in his own life corresponds with the evil of the 500 years that preceded him, he can only bear witness to the truth. And this is truth: A majority of the European Invaders and squatters who came here uninvited were either racist, or apathetic toward the plight of the Indigenous and the African slaves. The historical record clearly shows that this racism and apathy has continued with the majority through each successive generation.

              There are many examples of this. But one of the most obvious, yet overlooked examples of racism in the United States concerns the internment of Japanese American citizens during World War II. People seldom ask why German Americans were not also placed in the Konzentrationslagers. Prior to World War II, the U.S. had not engaged in a major conflict with Japan. However, the U.S. and Germany  had previously fought against each other in World War I. Furthermore, German saboteurs blew up a major munitions depot on Black Tom Island in Jersey City in July 1916. And so we can clearly see that prior to WWII, the Germans had not only killed thousands of U.S. soldiers, but they had also committed acts of terrorism on U.S. soil.  And so we must consider the following:

              • Hitler was perceived by many to be the greater threat to world peace.
              • The Germans had a recent history of violence and aggression against the United States.
              • There were far more German Americans living in the U.S. than Japanese Americans.

              When we consider these three important facts we can only conclude that German Americans posed a far greater threat to national security than Japanese Americans. But the fact that German Americans were not placed in Konzentrationslagers can only mean one thing. And that one thing is RACISM, because German Americans were also "white people". A majority of Americans have never given this issue a second thought. And that is because the "largest group" you have referred to is actually the second group that I have already identified. This group is defined by it's general apathy toward social issues that do not directly concern them, as well as an addiction to materialism.

              Your admonition that I should become part of the "solution" is laughable. Only a fool would seek to appease the cancer that eats at his flesh and can only bring him to ruin. A reasonable man will seek to cut out the cancer, to destroy it, and to render it less than a memory. I am a reasonable man.

              1. Live to Learn profile image59
                Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                In case you didn't know there were interment camps for Germans here in America during WWII. Do some research.

                1. Credence2 profile image82
                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  https://www.quora.com/Why-werent-German … ntration-c amps

                  There is a difference between a citizen of German Ancestery being interned because it is warranted due to suspicious activity on the part of the individual in time of war and just being rounded up solely due to the fact that one was of Japanese Ancestery and was an American citizen....

                2. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                  wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Of course I know, as I am a student of history. Comparing the internment of Germans here in the U.S. during WWII to the internment of the Japanese is almost as ridiculous as comparing the struggle of the Irish in America to that of the African. During WWII a total of 11,507 Germans were detained in internment camps. 11,000 of those were German Nationals who were stranded here because of the war. That leaves 507 U.S. citizens of German ancestry who were detained! But in sharp contrast, between 110,000 and 120,000 Japanese were forcibly interned in the camps. 62% of those detained were United States citizens. This disparity can only be attributed to racism, as the German American population far outnumbered the Japanese Americans.

                  1. rhamson profile image69
                    rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    As at war in any time there is a need to identify the enemy within before you set to vanquish it from without. Political correctness be damned as the first easily recognizable evidence of them is their appearance. Does this overstep the Constitution and personal rights. Absolutely! But is a time of war and danger and it is prudent to exercise caution and act. Short or martial law where everyone's rights are suspended the search for the enemy within is more expedient and effective if the obvious suspicions are allayed for the time being. To have it any other way would invoke a "Humane and Logical" action during a war crisis which is an oxymoron considering the ravages and atrocities of war. To allow obvious suspicious character unbridled freedom to move about at a time of war is ridiculous and yes this is based on the one common characteristic the guilty and innocent posses, their appearance or language.

                  2. Live to Learn profile image59
                    Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Racism? I think if we look at the definition of racism -prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior- we might decide that the answer is somewhat different.

                    I think it is probably more attributable to the fact that those of German ancestry had been in this country for over one hundred years and Germany was a neighboring country of many other people's ancestors so they were familiar with many things about them. The more you know about someone else the less fear you feel and the more you believe you can judge how they will act.

                    Japan was so reclusive it had an official policy of isolation from Europe for over two hundred years before the US forced trade relation less than one hundred years before the attack on Pearl Harbor. Japanese did not begin to immigrate into this country in any numbers to speak of until about 40 years before Pearl Harbor was attacked.

                    Racism is a belief that one's own race is superior, not fear and fear was what motivated American policy. I think the fear of the Japanese during the war came from the fact that the citizens had barely been here for more than one generation so there was reason to believe that the immigrants could still have strong ties to a nation which attacked us, unprovoked, without first declaring hostilities.

                    Was internment a bad decision? In retrospect we can say yes but, I'll be honest. I do sometimes wonder when people complain about American policy during the war if they bother to look at what drove it. Considering the actions of Japan in the nations they over ran I would think we would understand why our government would do everything in its power, even going overboard at that time, to ensure that they had done everything they could to protect the American people from Japanese invasion.  I suppose you may think it would be better to have sat back, hoped for the best, and accepted that if the best had not been the outcome the pillow girls and slaves created when they got here could rest easy knowing that everyone had just sat back and hoped for the best.

                    I notice that Japan has never compensated any of our POW's for the forced slave labor in the factories. We, at the least, didn't turn these virtual prisoners into slave laborers and we did compensate survivors years after the fact.

              2. wilderness profile image78
                wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                "And that one thing is RACISM, because German Americans were also "white people"."

                And with that single statement you make my point very well.  Thank you.

              3. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Wilderness and Wrench, I missed something.  Did someone say racism is limited to a specific ethnic group.  I certainly disagree with that!

                1. wilderness profile image78
                  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Wrench has long maintained that all whites are racists, and ONLY whites.  No other race can be racist for some reason.  It seems to stem from Columbus - he was European (white) and therefore all whites in the world are racists.

                  1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                    wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    I strongly suggest that you stick to the truth. Here we see that you continue to peddle what is clearly an outright fiction. As I have made clear in many other posts, and as I have already explained in this thread, I have never suggested that all whites are racist. I have maintained that the historical record clearly shows that a majority of whites have either been racist or indifferent to the plight of the African and the Indigenous. You and many others here would do well to take some remedial courses in reading comprehension. Majority does not mean "all".

                    Concerning the second half of your comment. I maintain that It is not possible for a minority to express racism against an oppressive majority. Yes, a minority individual is capable of feeling superior, but such feelings when separated from a system of racist oppression cannot have the same effect as such feelings that are directed from the perspective of the majority. It is the same difference between a man with a loaded gun and a man who is shooting blanks. In order to realize racism, we must not only have the personal "feeling" or the motivation, but we must also have the real world application. Read and learn.

        2. Credence2 profile image82
          Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Wilderness, Trump's statement of 58 percent is more than an exaggeration, but an deliberate fabrication to attempt to convince people who know that Trump is a phony, from whom he will not receive 1 percent of their vote. What is Trumps solution to the poverty problem, besides his merely saying that he will 'fix it'? Exaggeration borders on blatant lies, and yes his past record in regards to his own behavior in regards to race matters has not been sterling.

          You can distort 'pertinent information' with exaggerations and lies to the point where itis no longer pertinant information. The first rule of respect is do you homework and make sure the stats you mouth off about are accurate, Trump has yet to figure this out.

          BTW, I will get you the evidence supporting my positions of unjustified shootings from the other thread.

          1. Live to Learn profile image59
            Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I'd like to comment on your statement that Trump says he'll 'fix' the poverty problem; which you consider to be bs. Both parties have had ample time to chip away at the poverty problem. It's getting worse, not better. What would make you believe Hillary, an establishment candidate, will do any more good?

            I'd say Trump can't do any worse than they've all done so far.

            1. wilderness profile image78
              wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              But Clinton claims she will create wealth by stealing it and destroying any incentive to produce.  Surely that will work!?

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I don't support Hillary so I have no comment on this one.

              2. Live to Learn profile image59
                Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Sooner or later the populace is going to have to accept that the same promises over and over again, which result in no good outcome, in no change for the betterment of the segment of the population the funds are being thrown at means either the promises are empty or the ideas are bad.

                1. wilderness profile image78
                  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  LTL, I don't think they ever will.  We all dislike having the homeless, the poverty ridden infirm, the hungry among us and all want to help.  It's really easy to convince people that cry inside for the hopeless folk locked into desperate poverty that they only need a few dollars to live a good life, just as we do.  And it does help...until the end of the month, when the money is gone and they are still just as poor as they were and just as hopeless.

                  Very few are willing to look at the long term consequences, then - they just look at the "today" as we again feed the hungry and house the homeless - that they are the exact same individuals we did the same thing for last year and the year before is hidden away and never, ever discussed.  That they are fed today is all that matters - tomorrow will take care of itself as the country slowly slides down the path of the nanny state and total control over the poor.  As we go further and further into loading impossible debt onto our own children.  Debt that will eventually destroy all of us.

                  For long term solutions require pain.  They require effort and work, they require a change in the poor that neither they nor the givers wish to "inflict" on them.  So the grand ideas, the ever growing monetary payments, the eternal charity will continue until there is nothing left to give.

            2. Credence2 profile image82
              Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I just want Trump to lay out a plan to how he is going to 'fix it'. All republicans in in ideological principle always do worse. GOP administrations over the past 50 years attest to that.

              Hillary is picking up on Sander's better ideas of income means tested low cost or free education opportunity, that helps.

              Taxing stock trades to provide income

              Investment into the crumbling infrastructure as a source of jobs rather than just handing money to Thurston Howell, in the trickle down tradition could be helpful as well.

              So, what does the GOP offer except pick yourself up by bootstraps when you do not have boots?

              1. wilderness profile image78
                wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                No, giveaway programs, whether free education, raising taxes to give it away or any other form does NOT help poverty.  It merely extends it further, denying people the opportunity to support themselves.  This is a typical liberal ploy to, very temporarily, make things seem better as they get worse.

                Infrastructure could help, but most of those jobs requiring heavy training.  You don't come out of the ghetto and jump on a backhoe.  Past presidents have managed it (the new deal invested heavily in infrastructure) but all that was required was a strong back.

                1. Credence2 profile image82
                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  That's your opinion, but the people will give you their opinion when they vote otherwise this Coming November 8th. Stay tuned....

                  How about part of that infrastructure being used to train apprentices to acquire critical skills ? Itis hard to better yourself if you have neither the skills nor resources to do so.

                  1. wilderness profile image78
                    wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Do you really think that significant numbers of "uncle toms" wish to learn trades, skills and knowledge to fit into the working world?  You know as well a anyone what the reaction of their gang lords and drug ridden friends will be - can you possibly think that even 1 out of a 100 will put forth the effort to learn in the face of that peer pressure?  Knowing that it isn't necessary - that as long as they stay poor they will be fed, housed and cared for just by casting a vote for the "right" person?

                    We look down on blue collar workers as uneducated and rather stupid to boot, but it took four years of study and experience to gain my electrical journeyman license.  Night school + 40 hour weeks for 4 years - after graduating high school - how many of the poor will submit to that?  I will say that there are easier courses, but they are all difficult and much more so for someone with an effective 6th grade education.

              2. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                He's gotten this far without a plan.

          2. wilderness profile image78
            wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Better than Clinton's - he says he will create jobs.  She will just take from one to give to another, destroying any incentive to produce it.

            But I would be interested in seeing your "proof" that the exaggeration was deliberate and designed to "to convince people who know that Trump is a phony, from whom he will not receive 1 percent of their vote."  Not only does the statement make zero sense, it rather doubt you can support it outside of pure opinions from biased people.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              TRUMP’S CLAIM: “58 percent of African-American youth are either outside the labor force or not employed.” [Detroit Economic Speech, 8/8/16]

              WHAT THE EXPERTS HAVE PREVIOUSLY SAID:  Politifact: Donald Trump’s black youth unemployment number “comes from a computation of all 16- to 24-year-old blacks who aren’t working and may not even want a job, including high school and college students.” “Trump says the unemployment rate for black youths is 59 percent. The unemployment rate is a widely used term with a specific definition: It refers to the percentage of jobless people in the workforce who are actively seeking employment. In May, the unemployment rate for blacks ages 16 to 24 was 18.7 percent, or less than one-third of Trump’s claim. Trump’s campaign didn’t respond to our question about where the candidate got his 59 percent figure. But it appears likely it comes from a computation of all 16- to 24-year-old blacks who aren’t working and may not even want a job, including high school and college students. Clearly, black youths have a harder time finding work than whites. But Trump exaggerates the issue through his misleading use of statistics. We rate his statement Mostly False.” [PolitiFact, 6/20/16]

              http://correctrecord.org/fact-check-don … mployment/

              http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-re … d=41250145

              1. wilderness profile image78
                wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I said that.  His number is grossly overstated.  And gave a link showing it is around 20% (I think in July).

                But your comment was that statisticians don't figure youth at all - that school kids aren't counted whether looking for work or not.  Patently false, and a clear attempt to vilify Trump for even suggesting that black youths have a problem with finding work - a problem that is double that of the rest of the country.

                Which, in turn, becomes a part of why it is so difficult to discuss race issues.  Pretending it doesn't exist because you don't like Trump becomes a part of that difficulty.  Jumping all over an exaggerated number while ignoring that black youth has double the unemployment rate does nothing to solve it.  A very real racial problem is turned into nothing but a political statement against a presidential candidate and that's not the way for find answers.

                1. Credence2 profile image82
                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Being truthful about the scope of the problem is a great place to start.

                  1. wilderness profile image78
                    wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Yes it is.  It surely is.  And when we find someone exaggerating the problem we should just dismiss it in favor of a rant about their lies? 

                    You are a prime example, Credence - you consistently (IMO) grossly overstate the severity of the problem in this country.  But I don't just scream about you lying, even with a known exaggeration - I discuss it with you.  I agree there is a problem, even when it isn't nearly as bad as you insinuate, and look for solutions.

                    But here it's all about demonizing Trump.  The actual, very real problem of racial inequalities isn't even a part of it.  Just screaming that Trump is a liar as if that is germane to the question of why we can't discuss race rationally (the topic of the thread).

                2. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't know if you are reading all of my comments or not. I know the unemployment rate is higher, especially in the inner city.  I gave several of the multiple reasons why.

                  It sounds like II must agree with you in order to honestly discuss race.  You didn't seem to become upset when Live to Learn basically agreed with me or so I thought.

                  I'm much closer to the situation than you are.  I am
                  a) Black
                  b) a teacher
                  c) work in the inner city
                  d) have relatives who live in the inner city
                  e) know kids/adults in the inner city who can't find jobs
                  f) know of the businesses that have left the inner city
                  g) know the fear of decent people who are trapped in the inner city
                  h) know of the high number of students who are absent or ditch classes
                  i) know students who take standardized test and indiscrminately check off blocks so they can hurry and get done with it
                  h) have been discrimnated against multiple times

                  It is not an either or situation.  The problem is complex and, as I've stated before, needs cooperation from everybody - whether they created the problem or not.

                  I don't agree with people just to agree.  That's a waste of time.

                  1. wilderness profile image78
                    wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    I think I've caught all your posts.  You don't have to agree to have a discussion: my point here was that going off on a rant about Trump isn't even discussing the issue, let alone looking for answers.

                    For instance, your g) (just to pick one).  I'm sure you DO understand that better than I...but perhaps I can offer insights from my own personal history of being trapped in a hateful job.  Not a racial thing, not inner city - just trapped in something I hated, which might offer some insight on a possible solution.

                    But just complaining that Trump is a liar does nothing.  We both agree, at least fairly close, on black youth unemployment - the question is what can be done about it, not about how bad Trumps figures are.

            2. Credence2 profile image82
              Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

              How in the hell can  anyone confuse 20 percent as opposed to 60%? Republicans have always said that they would create jobs, how many jobs were lost under GW Bush and the loathesome philosophy? Yes, I agree with Diana, I don't trust Trump. And I go furthe to say that I don't trust the GOP to do nothing but make a bad problem worse.

              1. wilderness profile image78
                wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                "how many jobs were lost under GW Bush and the loathesome philosophy"

                Is this your proof that the exaggeration was deliberate and designed "to convince people who know that Trump is a phony, from whom he will not receive 1 percent of their vote."?  Or just a change of subject because you can prove neither claim?.

                I don't trust Trump either.  More than I trust Clinton, though, and LOTS more than I trust the liberal philosophy that playing Robin Hood is a good thing.

                1. Credence2 profile image82
                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Geez, Wilderness, the scope the error is so great that it has to deliberate. Should Donald be more responsible  for the statements he makes on the campaign trail or are you going to give him another free pass for that as well?

                  1. wilderness profile image78
                    wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    And of course it is far, far worse than telling Congress that "I put no classified information on private servers".  Got it.

                    Now THAT one was very deliberate, potentially extremely harmful, and illegal to boot but it got a free pass anyway.  Is that what you want?  You want to talk about free passes for deliberate statements, lets start with that one.

                2. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  :0  YOU don't trust Trump????  So why are you tongue-lashing me???

                  I hope my emoticon works out.

                  1. wilderness profile image78
                    wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Because the discussion is not about Trump: it's about why race problems can't be discussed reasonably...when a member of the discussion suddenly goes off on a rant about how Trump is a liar.  He is, plus often mistaken, but that doesn't have anything to do with the question of racial problems.

                    Emoticons: hit the "formatting" button under the reply box and it will tell you what to use.  yikes

                    (About the only I trust Trump for is to be the least effective President, ever, if elected. lol)

        3. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          With this post you have show one answer to your OP question.

          1.  "You're living in poverty."
                According to statistics, 26/27% of Black people are living in party.  (You indicates all/inclusive)

          While it is true that only 27% of blacks live in poverty, it is still about twice the rate of the country as a whole.  There is thus a large grain of truth here.  Trump exaggerates, but you ignore a very pertinent fact.

          Response to Wilderness
          I did not say that it is acceptable.  I said that it is grossly exaggerated.  The reason it is so high takes in a number of factors.  companies move out of the neighborhoods (for safety, to go where the customers are, insurance is cheaper, etc.); inner city people don't have transporation to make it to jobs (reliable cars, transit doesn't run consistently in certain areas,); insufficient education/training (for jobs at schools, all levels of government, etc.); criminal records (rely complicated here because record may include minor offenses like dui, etc.); discrimination, etc.



          2.  Your schools are no good.
                Stop blaming teachers.  There should be community involvement/mandatory participation by parents.

          But he didn't blame teachers.  And there are far too many schools that are both predominately black AND are pathetic.  You even say so by by giving some reason it is so.  This, too, then has too much truth to ignore, and changing the topic to teachers doesn't change that. 

          Response to Wilderness
          If not teachers, then who?  They work with these kids on a daily basis ... when they come to class.  Many ditch.  Some come to class not ready to learn (anger, hungry, homeless, abuse, etc.)


          3.  You have no jobs!
                Statistics state that 8/9% of Blacks are unemployed - 1/7 of the 58% figure Trump quoted.  Stastisticians have told him that you don't include kids in high school and college.  The high number supports his narrative.

          Trumps statement was "You have no jobs - 58 percent of your youth is unemployed.".  It isn't true (the proper figure is around 20%) but it is still around double the unemployment rate for youth nationwide - you've once more ignored pertinent information to try and make the statement totally false.  And yes, there are statistics for youth, ages 16-24.  http://www.bls.gov/news.release/youth.nr0.htm

          Response to Wilderness
          If Trump had hired locals instead of people from other countries to work, how many jobs would that provide.  They would spend the money here in the US and it would help the economy.  Everything he cells, he makes out of the country.  Businesses fail, people lose jobs, the economy is impacted. 

          If he can only figured out how to help one person as a $10 billionaire, who brags about hiring people, what can he do as a president.  You can't even depend on him to hold one position consistently.  He was going to "become Presidential" and now it's "I am who I am."  Then "I regret things I said."?????


          4.  What the hell do you have to lose?
                His past record shows nothing that he has done to improve Black employment as an employer and he has discriminated as his father did.  A bird in the hand may be worth two in a bush.


          If any of his business has hired even a single black person then it has done something to improve black employment.  That you might wish him to hire blacks disproportionate to the local demographics does not mean that he is doing nothing and even if you could prove illegal discrimination it still wouldn't mean he does nothing.  Another exaggeration, then, because he doesn't do what you would like him to do.

          Response to Wilderness
          I doubt hiring 1 Black person in the inner city is disproportionate to the local demographics.  I haven't asked him to do anything.  He asked me to trust him.  I have no reason to.

          You don't like Trump, you find him to be racist.  I get that.  But to take his statements and either complain about something else or pretend that there is no truth in them doesn't solve anything.  There is some truth (although he exaggerates as badly as you did) and they are points that should be discussed and solutions found for, not simply shoved aside because you don't like the man.  It makes discussing race very difficult when you do that.

          Response to Wilderness
          I don't whether he is personally racist or not.  He panders to racists.  It only takes one word to turn the truth into a lie.  I think it is pretty fair.  I said what I truly believe and so did you.  That is an honest discussion.  If I agree with you and don't believe in what I'm saying, I'm lying.  The same for you.  If you don't believe what I say, I appreciate your input. 

          This is the longest discussion I have had with any group of people were there is not a complete breakdown.  I appreciate all of you guys for that.  I love to discuss difficult issues.  In the long wrong, it is worth it!

          1. wilderness profile image78
            wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Diane, you missed the whole point of the post, continuing to devote at least half of this post in demonizing Trump instead of discussing the racial issue.  That's what I was talking about, not specifically whatever it is that Trump said. 

            You took his "you live in poverty" and tried to say it isn't true and he lies while double the black population is in poverty compared to the average for the country.  This isn't talking about racial issues - it's demonizing a candidate.

            Same thing with jobs - instead of addressing a very real issue that Trump brought, albeit with a gross exaggeration - you chose to state that youth figures aren't available, that they don't matter anyway.  This isn't talking about a very real racial problem, either - it's about throwing mud at a candidate.

            I'll repeat - when a discussion of racial problems degenerates into throwing mud in a presidential election the race issue fades into the background and is forgotten.  It makes it really, really hard to talk about the real issue of racial discrimination and problems.

            Most of this thread, better than most anyway, has stayed on topic about racial problems and discrimination.  Yet here is the OP, off on a tangent of dislike for a presidential candidate instead of talking about race.  Stay on track, girl! smile

    18. profile image52
      Ross Thorntonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Humans cannot talk about racism in a productive manner because we love the drama. Without drama, this isn't America. People love to be able to feel superior over one another. We love power. Being able to talk down to someone, that's the thrill of it all. I don't specifically look at racism as a color or ethnicity thing. Racism is also social class, rankings in jobs, rankings in sports, etc. Let's be real, do you think Lebron James thinks he would lose to Earl Boykins? No. Lebron knows he is on of the greatest of all times, so whether consciously or unconsciously, he would think/know he is better than him and wouldn't give Boykins a chance. That's racist to me. Everyone deserves a chance, no matter the color, rank, social class or even how good you are at something. Theres always someone better and also there is always an underdog.

      1. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I think those situations would fit better under prejudice and discrimination (if there is an element of power or decision-making involved).

        You have a good point!

    19. dianetrotter profile image62
      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I hope this catches on in the Southside of Chicago


      Taking Back the Neighborhood with an Army of Moms

      http://www.greatbigstory.com/stories/th … ottomlarge

    20. michelleonly3 profile image96
      michelleonly3posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      The problem is not discussing the issue (or non issue)  the problem is there is no longer a way in which to satisfy people who believe they are repressed. You can scream racism all day and say treat  me the same, yet that is not enough. We are not treated equal in this country because minorities are given advantages that non-minorities are not given. I will be repaying student loans until I die while people who attended school with me were given an education for free. So if we are going to be equal, then let us be honest that equal is not what people want. People want SPECIAL TREATMENT. I mean don't we all love special treatment.

      1. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Michelle, thank you for commenting.

        That sounds were discussing if you don't mind.

        I don't know whether or not you read the post about getting school loans forgiven.  If you work on certain jobs the loans can be forgiven.

        I know of know special programs for Black people.  The State of California has a grant for residents that have a 2.0 gpa when they are accepted.  From there they must keep the 2.0.

        Do you mind being specific about non-whites are not required to pay their loans back?

        Welcome to the Forum!

    21. profile image0
      savvydatingposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      There is no question that Blacks have been maligned in U.S. History. There is also no question that Blacks have risen in U.S. History. Consequently, when we speak of race, we should also speak of the significant improvements that have occurred over the years with regard to race relations. Otherwise, we are like a person in therapy who has never gotten off the psychiatrists couch to do something about his past issues. And in fact, Americans have “gotten off the couch” in many areas regarding race; i.e., the Civil Rights Act; having elected a Black president, as well as in many, many other ways.

      Also, we need to know that the slaves joined a work force which included local white laborers and artisans from Maryland and Virginia, as well as immigrants from Ireland, Scotland, and other European nations.
      https://www.whitehousehistory.org/quest … hite-house

      I believe Michele Obama made the “slave statement” in her speech because African American slavery is at the forefront of her thinking as well as that of her husband, Barak. Both were highly influenced by Reverend Jeremiah Wright, who was their pastor for twenty years. Rev. Wright spoke openly about his hatred for America and the White race.

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/ … tions20083

      Additionally, Michelle Obama understands the power of speeches that appeal to the emotions, as does her husband. (Hillary Clinton also understands this, as did her husband, Bill, which is why they always speak about how unfair things are for African American’s, etc., etc.) Unfortunately, their continuous thread of negative speeches about the separation of blacks and whites, as opposed to how far we have come, has not by any means created greater unity amongst people, but has instead driven blacks and whites further apart, I would guess, by twenty years. (I find this somewhat ironic as Obama is received an astounding amount of white votes---over Hillary Clinton, a white woman.)

      I do not wish to offend, but if we are to discuss race, we have to look at the good and not forever dwell on the bad (like the patient on the couch). We must move forward. That being said, neither should we forget, just as the Jews must never forget.

      1. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        savvy, in the same sentence that she talks about slaves building the Capitol she talks about the fact that she now lives there.  That is talking about progress.  How did you take it?

        1. profile image0
          savvydatingposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I took it as a speech to elect Hillary for president, as well as an account of history that was partially accurate, and which stated "...That is the story of this country, the story that has brought me to this stage tonight, the story of generations of people who felt the lash of bondage, the shame of servitude, the sting of segregation..." And so, it was a speech which carried emotional appeal, as if to say that Hillary Clinton can manage all race issues, and which obviously omitted the truth about the Republican Party, which was established to eradicate slavery and which has done more to build up the working classes.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            It was obvious that she was supporting Hillary.  That is why she was there.

            I don't understand why she can't mention slavery.  Throughout the years I have heard white coworkers and in other situations talk about their Irish or Dutch or whatever heritage.  We have been through that.  Why is a Black person not allowed to speak of his ancestors?

            1. profile image0
              savvydatingposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              We can and should speak about our heritage. All ethnicities should be proud of where we came from. But when White Americans and all other Americans who are not African American, keep hearing a preponderant amount of negative anecdotes from our President and others who work in our government, it is frustrating---as it seems to dismiss the good that has been accomplished in America. Such speech has the effect of eroding, however subtly, the many accomplishments that have been made in this country regarding race relations.

              And so, little by little, with every single speech in which both Obama and Hillary (not to mention most Democrats) constantly make reference to the negative, many white people just become frustrated and finally, just plain angry---much like a formerly bad husband who has tried hard to men his ways, but is at his wit's end because his wife keeps on bringing up his past. (I believe this frustration and anger created a vacuum in which Trump could rise, unfortunately, which is why many former white Democrats led the way in getting Trump nominated.)

              Trump however, is fantastically less clever than The Obama's or the Clinton's.

              And so, not unlike the Germans of the Holocaust, most Americans have tried to make reparation and to move forward. Most of us, save the die-hard bigots, thought that we had.

              I am Hispanic. My father and grandfather experienced prejudice. It wasn't pretty, but they didn't dwell on it often. In fact, they almost never did. When my father, a Democrat and an accomplished "federal government" man made speeches, he didn't bring up how badly he was treated. When most Hispanics, Asians and Irish, etc. speak about their heritage, they speak of their family names and where they came from---originally. It almost seems as if a lot of African American's feel as if their history began with the lynching's in America, as opposed to the continent of Africa or whichever specific country...

              That's all. In short, we had made progress, but I maintain that Obama and now Hillary's constant speeches about terrible race relations and slavery, etc. have and are taking us backward.

              In any situation in which relationships need to be improved, it is not useful to keep bringing up all the "horrible stuff' that happened all of the time. Consequently, some people are at their wits end as to how else to communicate.

              I'm sorry if my comment is in any way offensive. I don't want to hurt anybody. I believe in all people, no matter the race. I just think we need to move forward by acknowledging each others accomplishments.

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                It seems as if you are speaking about politics, the elections, etc.  We can't discuss all that within the confines of

                1)  Was the comment Michelle Obama made "race baiting" and
                2)  Why can't we have a productive discussion about race

                I am not a Democrat or a Republican.  I respect Michelle Obama's education, intelligence and accomplishments.  I don't read anything into her comments that she doesn't say.

                So are you saying that Michelle Obama is race baiting because she is a Democrat, supports Hillary Clinton and is married to Barack Obama?

                1. profile image0
                  savvydatingposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I believe I stated that we can have a productive dialogue when both parties acknowledge the other's accomplishments. As for race baiting, I cannot say what Michelle was thinking. If you are not familiar with Rev. Wright, who was the Obama's pastor for twenty years, then you might want to do some research on him. I provided a link. As I said, I believe all races have made many accomplishments and it would be refreshing to hear more about how far we have come. That is the basis for healthy relationships---to acknowledge the good in the other and to build upon it.

                  1. profile image0
                    savvydatingposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Well, Michelle's husband is a politician and she was making a political campaign speech. I was just trying to answer your original question about her comments and I gave some background information in the form of some links as well as an explanation about what people generally respond to with regard to positive dialogue.

                  2. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    There is nothing wrong with your philosophy.  The probllem is the inability to appreciate accomplishments of people who look different from you.  We go to school to learn the history of people who have made the contributions.  Often the contributions of some people are made at the expense and to the detriment of others.

                    It's interesting that Colin Kaepernick is in the news now.  I thought of comments Wrench Biscuit has been making.  When I first heard of Kaepernick sitting through the Star Spangled Banner, I thought he was wrong.  Now, not so much.  I hear he sat through the song at least two other times but was not in uniform.  When he sat in his uniform, he got a lot of attention.

                    As differing views were discussed, a vet said he should go beyong sitting through the song.  The newscaster said that possibly this is the beginning.  Because he sat in his uniform it started conversatin all over media sources.  I never heard of the guy before.  I looked him up and now I know about him.

                    You can't be proud of something you don't know about.

                  3. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Jeremiah Wright - I followed all of the information.  I had never heard of him before.  He disgusted me and I never would have set foot in his church.  That has nothing to do with the fact that, even though her ancestors were kidnapped and enslaved, she rose above the stigma of her past.

                    I lied!  I also remember, "When they go low, WE GO HIGH!"

                    There is a segment of the population that would prefer to complain about her not knowing who her father is, living in the inner city, having children without a husband and getting a welfare check.  She has gone where that segment of the population will never go.  She is more than a former member of Jeremiah Wright's church, a Democrat and the wife of Barack Obama.

                    Education and early career
                    She was inspired to follow her brother to Princeton University,[7] where he graduated in 1983,[33] after which he went on to become a basketball coach at Oregon State University and Brown University.[34] She recalls that some of her teachers in high school tried to dissuade her from applying, that she had been told she was "setting my sights too high".[35][36] She believed that her brother's alumni status may have helped her during the admission process,[37] but she was resolved to demonstrate her own worthiness.[33] She acknowledges that she was overwhelmed when first arriving in first year, attributing this to the fact that neither of her parents had graduated from college,[38] and that she had never spent time on a college campus.[39] The mother of a white roommate reportedly unsuccessfully tried to get her daughter moved because of Michelle's race. She recalls her time at Princeton being the first time she was made more aware of her ethnicity and that despite the willingness of her classmates and teachers to want to understand her, she still felt "like a visitor on campus."[40][41] "I remember being shocked," she says, "by college students who drove BMWs. I didn't even know parents who drove BMWs."[29]

                    While at Princeton, she got involved with the Third World Center (now known as the Carl A. Fields Center), an academic and cultural group that supported minority students, running their day care center, which also included after school tutoring.[42] She challenged the teaching methodology for French because she felt that it should be more conversational.[43] As part of her requirements for graduation, she wrote a thesis titled Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community.[44][45] She researched her thesis by sending a questionnaire to African American graduates, requesting they specify when and how comfortable they were with their race prior to their enrollment at Princeton and how they felt about it when they were a student and since then. Of the 400 she sent her survey to, only a small number, fewer than 90, responded and her findings did not support her hope that the black alumni would still identity with the African American community, even though they had attended an elite university with all of the advantages that accrues to its graduates.[46] She majored in sociology and minored in African American studies, graduating cum laude with a Bachelor of Arts in 1985.[6][47]

                    Robinson went on to earn her Juris Doctor (J.D.) degree from Harvard Law School in 1988.[48] By the time she applied for Harvard Law, biographer Bond wrote, her confidence had grown; "This time around, there was no doubt in her mind that she had earned her place".[46] Her faculty mentor at Harvard Law was Charles Ogletree, who has said that she had answered the question that had plagued her throughout Princeton by the time she arrived at Harvard Law, of whether she would remain the product of her parents or keep the identity she had acquired at Princeton, believing that she concluded she could be "both brilliant and black."[49] At Harvard she participated in demonstrations advocating the hiring of professors who were members of minorities[50] and worked for the Harvard Legal Aid Bureau, assisting low-income tenants with housing cases.[51] She is the third First Lady with a postgraduate degree, after her two immediate predecessors, Hillary Clinton and Laura Bush.[52] She would later say her education gave her opportunities beyond what she had ever imagined.[53] In July 2008, she accepted the invitation to become an honorary member of the 100-year-old black sorority Alpha Kappa Alpha, which had no active undergraduate chapter at Princeton when she attended.[54]

                    Career
                    Following law school, she was an associate at the Chicago office of the law firm Sidley & Austin, where she first met her future husband. At the firm, she worked on marketing and intellectual property.[6] She continues to hold her law license, but as she no longer needs it for her work, it has been on a voluntary inactive status since 1993.[76][77]

                    In 1991, she held public sector positions in the Chicago city government as an Assistant to the Mayor, and as Assistant Commissioner of Planning and Development. In 1993, she became Executive Director for the Chicago office of Public Allies, a non-profit organization encouraging young people to work on social issues in nonprofit groups and government agencies.[28] She worked there nearly four years and set fundraising records for the organization that still stood 12 years after she left.[22]

                    In 1996, Obama served as the Associate Dean of Student Services at the University of Chicago, where she developed the University's Community Service Center.[78] In 2002, she began working for the University of Chicago Hospitals, first as executive director for community affairs and, beginning May 2005, as Vice President for Community and External Affairs.[79] She continued to hold the University of Chicago Hospitals position during the primary campaign, but cut back to part-time in order to spend time with her daughters as well as work for her husband's election;[80] she subsequently took a leave of absence from her job.[81] According to the couple's 2006 income tax return, her salary was $273,618 from the University of Chicago Hospitals, while her husband had a salary of $157,082 from the United States Senate. The Obamas' total income, however, was $991,296, which included $51,200 she earned as a member of the board of directors of TreeHouse Foods, and investments and royalties from his books.[82] Obama reflected that she had never been happier in her life prior to working "to build Public Allies".[83]

                    Obama served as a salaried board member of TreeHouse Foods, Inc. (NYSE: THS),[84] a major Wal-Mart supplier with which she cut ties immediately after her husband made comments critical of Wal-Mart at an AFL-CIO forum in Trenton, New Jersey, on May 14, 2007.[85] She also served on the board of directors of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs.[86]

              2. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Your comment

                I just think we need to move forward by acknowledging each others accomplishments.

                My response

                I missed this one.  We talked about the need to be educated on the accomplishments of non-African Americans because it was left out of history books.  I'm sorry you were not here because we went pretty deep.

                1. profile image0
                  savvydatingposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I didn't see that part about history books. Yes, it should be in history books. No question.

                  1. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    TY!

                    That fact that it was not causes us to continue verbal history and, thanks to the internet, share information on websites. 

                    Michelle Obama spoke of her ancestors and herself.  That is the only part of her speech I remember and I agree with it.  I can't tell you anything else she talked about.  I watched both conventions and was underwhelmed. 

                    My family and I are actually checking to see if we are related.  Our Robinson family is so far traced to the S. H. Wilds Plantation in Darlington, South Carolina.  Scott Wilds, a descendant of the plantation owner, has been wonderful in helping us put the pieces together.  We love Scott and hope we will find that he is also family.

              3. wilderness profile image78
                wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                "All ethnicities should be proud of where we came from."

                This is something I've never understood.  We left wherever we came from because we thought the US would be a better place - what is there to be proud of?  We might be proud of putting forth the effort and risk to leave it, or proud of our parents for doing so, but if it was so inferior as to take enormous risk and effort to leave, what is there to be proud of in the place itself?

                Why aren't we instead proud of where we are, where we personally have contributed something to making it a better place?  Similarly, what is there to be proud of in the color of our skin?  That someone else, that we never knew, did great things and had the same color?  That's something to be proud of?  Why aren't we proud of what we contribute instead of just the color of our skin?  I don't get it.

                1. profile image0
                  savvydatingposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I was referring to our cultures. Each culture has distinct, interesting differences.

                  1. Live to Learn profile image59
                    Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    As an American mutt I can tell you I have no idea of any culture other than this one to be proud of.  Unless you are talking of cultures within this culture. Then, I guess I see that but we have so much more in common than we have differences I don't see any Americans as being part of a separate culture.

                  2. wilderness profile image78
                    wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Basically, same comment - whether geographical area or culture, it was bad enough to leave behind in search of something new.  Where is the pride in that (failed, at least for you) culture?  Indeed, unless one has made contributions to a culture, where is the pride in the one we live in?

                2. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't know any other way to say it than I already have.  Our ancestors were set apart and called 2/5 or 3/5 human.  They could be killed for trying to learn to read.  When they were freed, they weren't really free or we wouldn't need the Civil Rights Act of 1964.  In that pursuit to remind Black people they were less than there were Jim Crow laws and everything we discussed.  The 1960s is really when Black people started to reap the benefit of being in America.  The hatred of those who considered themselves superior led to them being forced to treat Black people as deserving of education and jobs.  Only then were Black people able to move up the hierarchy.

                  Michelle did it and she is glad that she rose from all the entrappings of her ancestors being in America.  I'm tracing my ancestors, which include 20% non-Africans, because I want to know my history.

    22. dianetrotter profile image62
      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      This was part of my pastor's online devotion this morning.  For Christians on forum, please consider.  It would be wonderful if people could appreciate diversity and how it helps to achieve the common goal of unity and progress.

      2. God accomplishes unity by using a willing people.
      When people come from diverse backgrounds, how can they keep from butting heads? By eagerly pursuing God’s will. As we grow in the Lord, we will see the need of serving God by serving others. We do not need to find a purpose for the church since God spells that out in depth in the Bible. But, we do need to labor for a common goal: glorifying God by building up His church.

      We need to jump in not just with our feet, but our heart, too. God uses willing people, those who eagerly seek to use their lives to make a difference.

    23. dianetrotter profile image62
      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      3rd verse of Star Spangled Banner
      (I never heard this before!)  Colin Kaepemick and other refust to stand because

      And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
      That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
      A home and a Country should leave us no more?
      Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution.
      No refuge could save the hireling and slave
      From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
      And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
      O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.


      My interpretation of lines 5 an is:  Slaves couldn't hide from the frightening aspect of flight or death.  "And it ends with "O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave."

      It's ironic that Francis Scott Key reveled in their getting freedom from the British and at the same time reveled that those they enslaved had to be worried about being killed if they tried to get away.  It is making more and more sense now that he did not want to stand.

      1. Live to Learn profile image59
        Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        It's a shame. We'll probably have to have a national discussion on it. It may end up that we choose a new anthem.

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I hadn't thought about that; however, it really blew my mind to read the 3rd verse.  I have been teaching the song for 22 years and explaining line by line with tears in my eyes.  The kids loved to sing it although they acted like they didn't. 

          As I walked them to the door, kids would whisper, "Can I sing it when nobody's listening?"  Or they would come to me at lunch and ask to sing to me.

          If we have a discussion, that is a good thing!  Did you know Columbus kept a daily journal.  I found out this morning.  I marked it so I could go back to look at it.

          1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
            wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13174209.jpg

            Here is another document I suggest you will find interesting. The atrocities of Columbus and the evil Europeans are well documented in this famous historical document: "A Brief Account of the Destruction of the Indies, by Bartolome de las Casas". This should be required reading for all high school students. The fact that Columbus Day is celebrated throughout the United States, in spite of the fact that this miscreant made Ted Bundy look like a misunderstood choir boy, is only further testament to the evil heart of America. It is an outrage that many uneducated Americans will admonish the Indigenous and the African to forget the past. Yet, each year they continue to glorify murder, rape, torture, and thievry  on Columbus Day. http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/203 … mages.html

            Excerpt from "A Brief Account of the Destruction of the Indies":


            "...  Which the Spaniards no sooner perceived, but they, mounted on generous Steeds, well weapon'd with Lances and Swords, begin to exercise their bloody Butcheries and Strategems, and overrunning their Cities and Towns, spar'd no Age, or Sex, nay not so much as Women with Child, but ripping up their Bellies, tore them alive in pieces. They laid Wagers among themselves, who should with a Sword at one blow cut, or divide a Man in two; or which of them should decollate or behead a Man, with the greatest dexterity; nay farther, which should sheath his Sword in the Bowels of a Man with the quickest dispatch and expedition.

            They snatcht young Babes from the Mothers Breasts, and then dasht out the brains of those innocents against the Rocks; others they cast into Rivers scoffing and jeering them, and call'd upon their Bodies when falling with derision, the true testimony of their Cruelty, to come to them, and inhumanely exposing others to their Merciless Swords, together with the Mothers that gave them Life.

            They erected certain Gibbets, large, but low made, so that their feet almost reacht the ground, every one of which was so order'd as to bear Thirteen Persons in Honour and Reverence (as they said blasphemously) of our Redeemer and his Twelve Apostles, under which they made a Fire to burn them to Ashes whilst hanging on them: But those they intended to preserve alive, they dismiss'd, their Hands half cut, and still hanging by the Skin, to carry their Letters missive to those that fly from us and ly sculking on the Mountains, as an exprobation of their flight.

            The Lords and Persons of Noble Extract were usually expos'd to this kind of Death; they order'd Gridirons to be placed and supported with wooden Forks, and putting a small Fire under them, these miserable Wretches by degrees and with loud Shreiks and exquisite Torments, at last Expir'd....."

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I gotta read this in the morning when I'm coherent.  Thanks WB!

            2. Say Yes To Life profile image82
              Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Reminds me of the Sand Creek Massacre in "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee".

              1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13177034.jpg

                The lyrics to "America The Beautiful" were written by Katherine Lee Bates, a 33 year old white school teacher in 1893. Bates was born in March 1859, and was only 5 years old when the Sand Creek Massacre occurred. When the massacre at Wounded Knee took place in December of 1890, she was 31 years old. Being a school teacher and well traveled, it is difficult to believe that she was unaware of these crimes against humanity. And it is also hard to believe that she was unaware of Jim Crow. The lynching of black people throughout the United States peaked in 1892. With the trees throughout the south bearing this Strange Fruit throughout her entire adult life, we cannot imagine that she was also unaware of these horrendous crimes that were given so much publicity. Many of these lynchings were treated as a sick spectator sport, and tens of thousands of "good white folk" showed up to enjoy the spectacle of men and women being tortured, burned alive, and hung up by their necks. The teenager Henry Smith was lynched in Paris Texas in February 1893. Bates wrote the lyrics to "America The Beautiful" in the summer of 1893. The Smith lynching was publicized nationwide, and covered by the New York Times. It has been estimated as many as 15,000 people, mostly white, showed up to "enjoy" the spectacle.

                But in spite of all of this evil that was taking place throughout her life, Katherine Bates chose to ignore the humanity of the Indigenous and the African, and instead focused on the "bright side of life", which of course is the "white side of life". And so, the song "America  the Beautiful"  is another perverse glorification of American racism , hypocrisy. and indifference. And she was not unlike many white Americans today who simply ignore the evil around them, while innocent people continue to suffer.

                1. gmwilliams profile image85
                  gmwilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Okay, oKAY, OKAY, you have eloquently elucidated in depth what was negative about American culture, society, & civilization.    Now please elucidate what is great, glorious, & right about American culture, society & civilization.   There are MANY great, glorious, & right aspects about American culture, society, & civilization.   While there are some negative points about American culture, society, & civilization, there are MORE POSITIVE aspects regarding American culture, society, & civilization than there are....negative........Be thankful that you're .....AN AMERICAN, WB!!!!
                  http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13177211.jpg

                  1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                    wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13177904.jpg

                    Two Great Things About America

                    It appears that you are a true patriot! Often, when people express such a sentiment they are thinking of the so-called " material benefits" of living in the United States as opposed to various Third World Countries. And bundled with those material benefits is a perceived higher standard of living. But it appears we are using a different measuring stick, and the twain shall never meet. There are two things that are great about America, and American culture.

                    The First Great Thing About America:

                    Just like all things, America will end one day, and so too the suffering of mankind. On that day the whole world will rejoice, as we will no longer suffer the aspirations of Kings, Queens, Nobility, and an Imperialist Democratic Republic bent on world domination.

                    The Second Great Thing About America:

                    If I die before these changes come, America cannot follow me there. For an evil heart cannot dwell in the light of Love, but only where it can be hidden behind flesh and bone.


                    And these are the things I am thankful for when I think of America. When I think of my freedom, I think of God. It is only God who has created me, given me free will, and thus rendered a free man. When I think of my talents, it is also God who has bestowed these upon me. But when I think of Love, I understand that Love is the greatest blessing of all. On the day I was born my fate was cast to the four winds. But before my feet could hit the ground, the Love of God was manifested in the spirit of those who were to become my Mother and Father.

                    We need only look toward Syria, Palestine, or Flint Michigan, to understand that there is much work to be done. The glorification of the evil that set these events in motion is only a giant step backwards.  Consumerism,and my "standard of living", are not worth so much suffering.

                2. Say Yes To Life profile image82
                  Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Ronnie Wrenchbiscuit - are you from a reservation? If so, what is it like? In the ghetto I grew up in, we had all our needs met.  By far the biggest problem was black on black crime.

                  1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                    wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13179673.jpg

                    wrenchBiscuit Destroys The Myth of Black on Black Crime

                    The answer is no. I grew up on a beautiful 200 acre farm amidst a sea of white racists. My parents were active in the Civil Rights Movement.  I didn't set foot on a reservation until after serving 6 years in the military.  I realize that many are offended when I tell the truth, but many of the people I grew up around were racist, and they just happened to be white. And so there is no other way to describe it, other than to say nothing at all, which is what many would prefer. Apparently it is the adjective they find most offensive.

                    But they should take their own advice and "get over it", and start dealing with the truth about America. They need to stop telling  lies to their children. And when they are not telling a lie, their revisionist recollections have conveniently omitted many of the details that would shatter the myth of good Christian folk coming to America to flee religious persecution and to seek a better life. Yes, many were seeking a better life, but at the expense of those who were here before them, as well as the African slaves they depended on, as many of the evil Invaders were too lazy to do the work themselves.

                    You mention Black on Black violence, and I noticed you mentioned it in another comment as well. Black on Black violence is another myth that is being promoted by the white racists. Of course, because you grew up in the ghetto witnessing Black on Black crime, you may want to disagree with my argument. But my argument is very easy to verify. Yes, if you say you witnessed Black on Black crime in the ghetto, then I believe that this is true. And so, you might ask: How can Black on Black crime be true,but also be a myth? Please, I will tell you. It is true because it has happened, and because it continues to happen. But the "narrative" of Black on Black violence is the mythological aspect we need to address. Why? Because anyone who lives in a white ghetto will also notice a higher incidence of white on white crime than if they were living in a mixed neighborhood well above the poverty level.  And it should come as no big surprise, and neither does it mean that poor white people are inherently violent. It simply means that people are more likely to abuse those who are nearest to them; people living in their own communities. This is common all over the world. If you would go to Bangkok you would find a higher incidence of Thai on Thai violence. And for over 800 years the Irish have suffered the white on white violence of their English oppressors.

                    But the white racist here in America has recently attempted to paint the black man living in the ghetto as unique among the other races, as if Black on Black crime is just another example of an inferior, aggressive, and violent race of people. It's the same old tired rhetoric that the racists have been using since the antebellum, but only with a new coat of paint. And such violence is not necessarily limited to people living at the poverty level. The redneck farm community I grew up in was, of course, predominantly white. There were relatively only a handful of Black people, and my people had been murdered, or removed from the landscape many years previous. There was not a great amount of poverty as you may have experienced. However, as you might guess, most of the violence was white on white violence. And there were some horrendous crimes that occurred while I was in high school. Also, a majority of the drugs were being sold by white drug dealers to white customers.

                    Furthermore, as I have indicated, crime occurs even in the best of neighborhoods, but it only makes sense that a greater number of poor people concentrated in a small area are going to witness a higher crime rate. And this happens for various reasons. One often overlooked reason for crime in the inner cities is exploitation, or opportunism. And we need look no further than the police. The FBI warned in 2006 that the KKK had infiltrated police departments across the country. And of course, we know why. It provides them with the opportunity to make lots of money, while perpetuating the misery of the inner city. This is done by facilitating the sale of narcotics, as well as instigating violence and turf wars among various gangs.

            3. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              If there were textbooks that details these accountings, they would have to be sanitized or taught at the college level.  Perhaps there shold be diverse groups of people writing history texts so they could provide balance at the appropriate age level.

    24. dianetrotter profile image62
      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I'm sorry.  I have to catch up on posts from the past two days.  Power outage for the whole house ended up being a blackout in the room with my computer hub.  During that time I have been stressed to the max and threw my back out.

      I will go back to read as many post as I can!

    25. dianetrotter profile image62
      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I'm wondering if Donald Trump's campaign new Pastor Michael Mark Burns was a super fraud.  The information was investigated as soon as Burns spoke at the RNC.  A Republican KA Psi was watching the broadcast and quickly discovered extended fraud.  Reports were out the 2nd week of July but I first saw it today.

      What would make this Black man tell these Burger King Whoppers?

      Perp Alert!!!!! Meet The Trump Supporting Pastor Who Was Busted For Klaiming Kappa Alpha Psi

      http://bossip.com/1336177/perp-alert-me … alpha-psi/

      Trump backer apologizes for blackface tweet, but stands by message
      http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/29/politics/ … oon-trump/

      Notice the gray contacts

    26. dianetrotter profile image62
      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Here's one of the cases where a white kid was shot and killed.   


      South Carolina Cop Who Killed Unarmed Teen Is Fired   

      http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sou … ed-n642716

    27. word55 profile image76
      word55posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Diane, you should read my hub: How To Improve Race Relations (http://hubpages.com/education/How-To-Im … -Relations). I think we need to do that in order to  talk productively, reasonably and respectfully about race issues.

      1. RudeDiaryLady profile image61
        RudeDiaryLadyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Racism and/or slavery is a mislead topic and a lot of people do not want to speak on it because it’s “over” and the idea that something so harmful was the identity of this nation; makes one regret their connection. Second, the question of, should Michele Obama have mentioned the White House being built by slaves; was ignorant. The house that she lives in was not built by slaves- sure the original one was but, the walls she walk down, the floors she stands on, was not built by slaves. That house was reconstructed before, during or directly after President Truman. There is no way that she can have feelings about a house that basically, no longer exist.
        Slavery can never be forgotten and if families practice, being a family and celebrating their history, one would teach this to their children. We should not have a Black History Month because it just becomes propaganda.  Should be taught in school- on so many levels it becomes redundant. Students are required in February, to write a research paper on a famous Black person but, never required to do a research paper on a famous White person; Black History month is racist by its definition. We need to stop discussing race and/or slavery as a nation.
        It seems like one never takes the time, to identify that majority of those living on earth now; never took part in the act of or the assistance of racism or slavery. It has continued to be a divide between race and no one truly "understand" why we are still divided? Just the discussion of this however; continues to associate us with racism and slavery. At no point can one say this is not an issue/problem in this nation however; it’s not something that can be won via talking and marching and “bringing it to people's attention.” As someone else said in a previous comment; if you live and breathe in America, of course you see racism and nothing else can prove otherwise.
        White people are constantly walking around trying to make sure they are not being racist; Black people are walking around trying to make sure they don't take everything as being racist; and all other race’s, in this country, are standing around, trying to figure out when this topic, will no longer consume their TV's, internet or life. Racism is a symptom of the problem and if there is one thing we can all agree on, is if it’s broke, fix it; we need to fix our Government. We need to fix “the powers that be”; they are who contribute to the systems of racism and slavery. Ultimately it’s not about race, money, sexuality, religion; it’s about control and “the greater good”. If we attack the root problem- things can then be reconstructed. That is truly the only way; the trickle down system works.
        Furthermore; thank you for bringing this up, in this forum; I am always attacked and a lot of places don’t give enough space. We need to identify the cause of it all and implement changes from the top to the bottom, things will then be fixed or at least truly attacked and not just used as propaganda. Not to be used as a tool to, get people to vote for you as the President. Oh this guy marched with Martin Luther King Jr; he is always in support of Black people. The ENTIRE IDEA OF THIS MOMENT-MENTIONED in relevance to running for President; is shameful. Of course you marched with Martin Luther, for freedom. Praising someone for doing what’s right makes no sense. The topic should be why no one else is walking that battle. Kids, heck adults don’t get toys or snacks for brushing your teeth; do you want teeth, sure; so brush um. If you’re not racist; march for freedom- you don’t get a treat! The fact that it’s a marketing tool (to “support” Black people) is hypocritical, when you turn around and say- racism is over.

      2. Slarty O'Brian profile image82
        Slarty O'Brianposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        No such thing as race. Genetically there are only small cosmetic differences. We can all produce offspring together. There is no separate species of human. We're all just a species of ape called humans.

        We all need to get that in to our thick skulls. And I mean all. Hate is stupid and self destructive .

        1. Live to Learn profile image59
          Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Over a thousand posts on this thread and you come in with that now?

          We could have saved so much time and trouble if you'd just piped in sooner.

          smile

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            smile smile smile

        2. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
          Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Cosmetic and behavioral differences are what we are discussing. Why we would be discussing differences if they did not exist? Perhaps we are ONLY discussing differences and the various reactions to them. You certainly cannot say there are no differences!

          In my mind the the real problem is stingy-ness. We need to allow others to behave / live as they wish within the precepts of the golden rule / law.

          Why is this so hard to do in race/cultural relations? Why is this so hard to do in marriages, in families, in schools, in work, in business …  Thats the question, I would say.
          Some words come to mind: fear, expectation, prejudice, mostly negative reactions based on emotions based on ignorance …

          Knowledge and understanding helps us combat ignorance and non-acceptance of one another. This thread is helpful toward that end and the original question is a good one.

      3. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        WrenchBiscuit, Have you told us about what is happening in the Dakotas?

        I briefly described what we are discussing and gave him brief comments from different ones.  He was quite interested in you.  Today he asked if you have mentioned anything about what's happening in the Dakotas.

        Largest Native American Protest in history
        http://www.dinosmark.com/2016/09/the-la … t-now.html 

        I added link my friend sent me.

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, of course I have been following it. The video link I posted here several days ago was a commentary about this controversy. This is big news. Obama just overturned a federal judges ruling to let the evil Capitalists continue with the devil's work.

          It is a great day for The People! The People have stood together in solidarity on this issue, and there is more to come. Many whites have taken up the cause as well. This is an issue that affects everyone, and these companies should not only be stopped from destroying the environment, but the CEO's of these companies, and all of their upper management should be imprisoned for crimes against humanity, as they are the lowest common denominator, along with all of the corrupt Judges they have in their greedy pockets.

      4. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Surely everyone sees racist websites and comments on the internet
        Current day racism - why does it exist

        Most Hateful and Racist Websites       http://upli.st/l/most-racist-websites 

        Huffington Post  http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/07/0 … wn-bigots/ 
        Examples of some of the racism exposed include people who have referred to Obama as an “ass wipe monkey,” and references to white people supposedly being the real victims of slavery.

      5. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Shannon Sharpe speaks in support of Colin Kaopernick

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4BG0yOAnMA

      6. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Over the last week I have been really busy: drove 200 over 2 days to pick my friends up to go to Allyson Felix's 97 year old grand mother's funeral in LA.

        Barb, retired Human Resources Director for LA County Bar, and I were discussing current issues of which race was one.  It was a compelling conversation.

        Barbara asked me to define racism.  I gave her examples.  She believes and convinces me that "racism as done in the past no longer exist."  Reason:  In the past racism was denial of rights, Jim Crow, systemic policies and procedures that kept Black people (or whatever group) from access and opportunities provided to white people.

        Barbara suggested that what happens is "bigotry."  In our discussions I said that racism I see is a matter of individual hearts.  It actually makes more sense to say that it is bigotry.  I respect her opinion because of her advanced degrees in human resources and counseling.

        Bigotry - a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially :  one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

        Racism
        Racism often takes the form of social actions, practices or beliefs, or political systems that consider different races to be ranked as inherently superior or inferior to each other, based on presumed shared inheritable traits, abilities, or qualities. It may also hold that members of different races should be treated differently.

        Sooooooo, when people troll websites to make racist statements, they are being bigots?

        If a racial or ethnic group is not allowed to use the internet, that is racism?

        When we step back and look at it, it makes sense. 

        What do you guys think?

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13172126.jpg

          No, I strongly disagree with your friend, and so does the FBI. The FBI released a report in 2006 warning that police departments across the U.S. had been infiltrated by the KKK. Also, recently the hacker group Anonymous announced it was releasing the names of police officers throughout the U.S. who were members of the KLAN. These people are not common bigots. They have an agenda, and that agenda is to destroy the black race in America. They have made no secret of this over the years, and they have become very sophisticated in their methods. Let us not be deceived simply because we do not see them burning crosses everyday.

          Furthermore, Planned Parenthood, was founded by a racist witch named Margaret Sanger. Look at what the Americans did to my people. They murdered 100 million. They purposely reduced our numbers so that we would no longer be a threat. This is their plan for the black race here in the United States. And this has always been the plan of the white racists.

          According to blackgenocide.org:

          "Planned Parenthood is the largest abortion provider in America. 78% of their clinics are in minority communities. Blacks make up 12% of the population, but 35% of the abortions in America. Are we being targeted? Isn't that genocide? We are the only minority in America that is on the decline in population. If the current trend continues, by 2038 the black vote will be insignificant. Did you know that the founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, was a devout racist who created the Negro Project designed to sterilize unknowing black women and others she deemed as undesirables of society? The founder of Planned Parenthood said, "Colored people are like human weeds and are to be exterminated." Is her vision being fulfilled today?"



          Here are some more of her quotes:

          "The most merciful thing that the large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."

          "We should apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is tainted, or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring."


          "We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities.  The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."


          People who suggest that abortion is a choice are the same people who might suggest that smoking cigarettes is a choice for teenagers. But life is not so black and white.Tobacco companies prey on teenagers because they can more easily be influenced and manipulated. Everyone knows how children can be influenced.  No, they have not gone directly to teens, like some kind of a drug pusher and said "Here kids, smoke these!" But their methods of marketing and manipulation are more insidious. Marketing and availability is the key, and they understand that the easier the access, the more new lifetime customers they are going to hook. It is the same with abortion clinics, and the propaganda they distribute in the black communities. They indirectly prey on teenage girls, as these are the ones most likely to experience unwanted pregnancies.  There are many people seeking to adopt children of all races and nationalities, but Planned Parenthood promotes death over life in the black communities.

          They know that if the black population gets out of control their system of white supremacy is threatened. Think about it for a moment. In all of the professions where doors have been opened to black people what do we see? We do not see that they only succeed, but often they excel and dominate. The white racist cannot allow this to get out of control. Many people talk about an impending race war, but I am here to tell you that we are right in the middle of it.

          The best thing the black race in the United States could do right now is to start having as many babies as possible. And to get Planned Parenthood out of the black community A.S.A.P.. The black community does not have the luxury to wait until they gain economic parity with whites before increasing the birth rate. If the black people do not rapidly increase their numbers they will never have the political muscle to achieve any real economic parity.

          1. profile image0
            ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            " The best thing the black race could do right now would be to start having as many black babies as possible "
            "People who suggest abortion is a choice are the same people who ..... .............."
            "They know that if the black population gets out of control  ........"

            Wrenchbisket , you've really got to get out more , stop hiding behind the blue screen and experience real life ,  The Black race , like most races in America right now , including the white race  , is in trouble BECAUSE of over breeding ,      look at your own Indian reservations , look in the ghetto's of Baltimore , Chicago ,  Philly ,  LA. ,  for god's sake look at Beverly hills even or  Sturbridge Conn.  and  Chappaquiddick Ma.

            And your solution? , "Have more babies "........ would that also include more of the unwanted babies ?  Would that include  bringing fathers back home by forced march , those who've abandoned family life by a record percentage of half  in the white race alone and seventy percent in black families?    You are aware aren't you  , that over half of marriages in America fail ?   I just love it when people of supposed intellectual origins , actually suggest and promote a policy to continue digging the hole  deeper , deeper , deeper until  ...............oh forget it !     Why don't you sign up for the Dept of Social Services- Family Counseling ?   No wait ,   how about  you  just stop with the great idea's . You might actually influence someone  to try .

            1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
              wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Today you will learn a new phrase: "Population Density".  Just as I have enlightened many others who have gone astray, I am here to help you understand. Behold the superior intellect! When you are referring to black populations in the inner cities, what you are referring to is "population density".  This does not reflect the overall population. And your remark about the native population is bringing down the house. Here, I have provided for your convenience the "Cold Hard Truth" in 4 parts. The charts I provide reveal population distribution in the United States by race. As anyone can see from the numbers, your previous commentary has no merit whatsoever.  After reviewing the charts, please explain how minorities are making too many babies. I understand that life in Mayberry can be  quite hectic, but the world is waiting for your response.

              http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13202437.png

              http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13202438.png

              http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13202440.png

              http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13202442.png
              Info courtesy of  kff.org

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Thanks WR!  I've not seen these demographics.

            2. Say Yes To Life profile image82
              Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              RW - I believe those statistics are way off.  Check out this link:. http://www.iad.state.nm.us/history.html

              I was in New Mexico for awhile, and can vouch for this.

              1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13202979.jpg
                The website providing the chart explains: "N/A: Estimates with relative standard errors greater than 30% are not provided." Below, I have provided information on Standard Errors. But the exact number is irrelevant to the argument anyway.

                Even if 10% is spot on accurate, it still carries no political weight in the state of New Mexico. Furthermore, when they are ready to do so, it will be a lot easier for the white racists to reduce a population of 10% to 0%, than to begin their evil deed with a population of 90%. If the Black and the Indigenous are ever going to get out of this mess, then it is imperative that they at least collectively surpass the annual birth rate of the white majority for a sustained period of time. It is interesting to note that weapons of war such as guns, missiles, swords, bullets and knives are all phallic symbols. And it is ironic that the original phallic symbol will be the one that ultimately saves us from extinction. And this is a great teaching. Everything goes back to God.


                Why do we have Standard Errors?

                Estimates from the Labour Force Survey (LFS) are based on information collected from people in a sample of dwellings, rather than all dwellings. Hence the estimates produced may differ from those that would have been produced if the entire population had been included in the survey. The most common measure of the likely difference (or 'sampling error') is the Standard Error (SE).

                Importance of Standard Errors

                It is important to consider the Standard Error when using LFS estimates as it affects the accuracy of the estimates and, therefore, the importance that can be placed on the interpretations drawn from the data.

                Standard Error versus Relative Standard Error

                The Standard Error measure indicates the extent to which a survey estimate is likely to deviate from the true population and is expressed as a number. The Relative Standard Error (RSE) is the standard error expressed as a fraction of the estimate and is usually displayed as a percentage. Estimates with a RSE of 25% or greater are subject to high sampling error and should be used with caution.

                The reliability of estimates can also be assessed in terms of a confidence interval. Confidence intervals represent the range in which the population value is likely to lie. They are constructed using the estimate of the population value and its associated standard error. For example, there is approximately a 95% chance (i.e. 19 chances in 20) that the population value lies within two standard errors of the estimates, so the 95% confidence interval is equal to the estimate plus or minus two standard errors.

                Example

                The example below demonstrates how each of the reliability measures can be calculated and interpreted:

                Standard Error
                Employed persons, November 2009
                Estimate = 10,848,800
                The standard error can be obtained from Labour Force Survey Standard Errors, datacube, Oct 2009 (cat.no. 6298.0.55.001)
                Standard Error (SE) = 37,600

                Relative Standard Error (RSE)
                RSE = 100 x SE / estimate
                RSE (employed persons in November 2009) = 0.3%
                Since the RSE on the estimate of 10,848,800 is less than 25%, the estimate of employed persons can be considered reliable enough for general use.

                95% Confidence Interval
                Estimate plus or minus 2 x SE
                Upper limit of the interval = 10,848,800 + (2 x 37,600) = 10,924,000.
                Lower limit of the interval = 10,848,800 - (2 x 37,600) = 10,773,500.
                95% Confidence = 10,773,500 to 10,924,000.
                It can, therefore, be considered with 95% reliability that the true value of employed persons is between 10,773,500 to 10,924,000.

              2. Say Yes To Life profile image82
                Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Good point about blacks and Native Americans increasing their birth rates.  What's even more important is QUALITY, as well as quantity.  The last thing we need is a bunch of crack babies growing up to be thugs!

                1. Credence2 profile image82
                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  It is just another one of those faux pas? Crack babbies and thugs that result from a higher black or indiginous AMERICAN birthrate are glaring stereotypes. Again, our racial stress is about attitudes, some of which we don't even recognize as such. So many of these 'attitudes' are more widely held than you would think, and can reveal itself in a typical conversation.

                  1. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Today a disabled Black man was sitting in the car waiting for his son to get out of school.  The police were looking for someone else (not him).  Then shot him 4 times.  They said he had a gun in the car.  Doesn't 2nd Amendment apply for cars - they must be in the open?

                    1. Credence2 profile image82
                      Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      Have you got the link to that story, Diane?

                      Some states still require permits to be allowed to carry firearms outside the home. We will have to weigh in with some of our firearm enthusiasts to be sure.

                      I need to better assess the situation before I can render a judgement.

                2. Say Yes To Life profile image82
                  Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  "It is just another one of those faux pas? Crack babbies and thugs that result from a higher black or indiginous AMERICAN birthrate are glaring stereotypes. Again, our racial stress is about attitudes, some of which we don't even recognize as such. So many of these 'attitudes' are more widely held than you would think, and can reveal itself in a typical conversation."

                  Credence2 - what is so racist about wanting the best for your children, and caring about the legacy you pass on?

                  http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13205649_f248.jpg

                  1. Credence2 profile image82
                    Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    That's ok, that legacy idea is fine, but that applies to all of us, whites and blacks.....

          2. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            WR, what Black people need to do is become more educated.  My dad used to say, "Get yourself a good education.  No one can take that from you."  Intelligence makes the haters hate!

            Without a vision for success, it is morally incomprehensible to breed to increase numbers.  I barely have enough to help my family as it is.  My focus is education and significance.

        2. Credence2 profile image82
          Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Diane,

          How does this case fit in to your analysis?

          After the shooting, Crutcher could be seen lying on the side of the road, blood pooling around his body, for nearly two minutes before anyone checked on him. When asked why police did not provide immediate assistance, MacKenzie said: “I don’t know that we have protocol on how to render aid to people.”

          What type explanation is that? Every law enforcement officer should be prepared to render aid. Is the Tulsa police the equivalent of the Keystone Cops?

          Was the man just  in a broken down vehicle? No one mentions in the article what that was a source of suspicion for police. You are not a criminal for having your vehicle malfunction on the side of the road. There may be more info that has yet to be revealed, but this again sounds like a tragic shooting that is not justified.

          See article link attached

          https://www.yahoo.com/news/video-shows- … 24866.html

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I have questions about what I was seeing and what I heard.

            1.  Guy walking normally with hands in the hair yet
            2.  Offiicers say he was not complying BUT
            3.  I didn't hear anyone tell him to lie on the ground
            4.  Why was he walking to his car?  To get ID?
            5.  At what point did he get out of the car and for what reason
            6.  Fear? when I saw 4/5 officers walking closely behind him????

            7.  Fear or bigotry AND
            8.  If no procedures are in place, that is a systemic deficiency (assuming every situation would be like that)
            9.  He looks like a bad dude?  Why?  Because he is large and Black - sure enough bigotry

            You know I'm not dodging your question.  I can't answer with info given.

            1. Credence2 profile image82
              Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

              No, you are not dodging the questions, all the facts may not be in. Candidate Clinton has commented on this matter.

              When I think about this, how much threat was there toward the officers? You have three officers following one man, what threat can the man pose that three persons could not prepare for?

              Conservatives always complain about 'tying the hands of the police', but based upon what appears to be an abuse of discretion shown by the officers in this case, I say lets bind the hands even more tightly.

              And, when I hear the account of the mass muderer, Dylan Roof, treated to a Whopper at Burger King on his way jail, I have to pause.

              I propose to remove much more of the discretion from the action of law enforcement officer in favor of process and procedure that directs them as to how these encounters with civilians are to be handled. The cameras must always be in operation.

              Based on comments from the police at the scene, bigotry and bias play a role, with my main theme of 'attitude' problems being the biggest denigrators of positive race relations, today.

              I also do not like the '6 of one or half a dozen of the other' attitude when Conservative like to contrast unjustfied shootings by law enforcement officers, with criminal homicides in the Black community, dead bodies are dead bodies, are dead bodies, regardless of the source attitude.  They are not the same. That 'attitude' ticks me off.

              Leaving victims without medical attention or the benefit of the attempt to render the same is not something that one would do with a stray dog.

              Conservatives tick me off as they ignore the issue entirety, providing a plethora of excuses why it is not reasonable to ask Municipal police departments to review their procedures and personnel with a goal of making these tragic shooting less likely. Instead, bigotry directs the adversary to shoot the messenger rather than consider the message.

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I just read a little more.

                He was having car problems.  His car was in the street with the motor running.  He was walking toward it.  I don't know at what point the police got involved.

                I can't wait until more details are in.

                I can't support Mike Brown's situation.  He was cockey and stupid.

                I'm glad Angela Corey was voted out of office.  It was criminal how the jury was contaminated and how Trayvon Martin was villified.  Someone implied that he bought things to make a drug cocktail.  It reminds me of the "Wilding" thing that was made up against the Black guys who spent time for raping the woman in New York.  It was suppose to be a Black "thing."  Also the recent thing about knocking people out.  I can't remember what it is supposed to be called.

                Media picks up on these verbal thoughts of the police and then repeat it over and over.  This gives falsehoods way to much probability.

                BTW, it is way more bipartisan to believe that the dead Black person was guilty. Often, the conviction is based on passed history or something to justify that the person was not good for society.

                1. Credence2 profile image82
                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Michael Brown's case is a bit more involved. There is no crime in being cocky and stupid. Police officers that are unreasonably subceptible to fear and panic are in the wrong profession. That is unfortunately true of too many white officers on the beat in predominantly Black neighborhoods. I did not like the fact that he too received no medical attention with his body allowed to lie in the street for hours.

                  I can never buy the rationale and excuse the conservative right uses to justify the Treyvon Martin shooting.

                  1. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    What angers me about Michael Brown's stupidity is the set up that I got from his mom.  He was going to be the first one in the family to go to college, yada, yada, yada.   Then to see how he acted in the store.  The guy with him, AT LEAST, put what Michael had placed in his hand back.

                    Then Michael Brown assaulted the store worker.  It was known all over town that the police gave tickets for walking in the street.

                    It was very arrogant of him to walk in the street when the officer kept telling him to get out of the street.  He should have gotten his big annie sue sue out of the street.  Situations like this deflect from the all of the very legitimate cases.

                    Each case needs to be looked at individually.  Right now I'm concerned about the disabled guy that was reading a book, waiting for his kids.  It looks like THERE WAS NO BOOK!!  If he had a gun, WHY get out of the car with it? 

                    Credence, I'm not screamming when I write in caps.  I am so frustrated.  There can be four very clear examples of police misconduct and then comes one where a person does some really stupid stuff.  While it doesn't justify the person being killed it really makes it unclear about whether or not the officer used good judgement.

      7. Sgt Prepper profile image59
        Sgt Prepperposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I don't doubt there might have been some slaves and indentured Irish servants involved in the construction of the White House.  People seem to ignore the fact slavery was already a thriving industry in Africa long before Columbus was even born and it is still practiced on that dark continent today.
        The slave-traders actually did these people a major favor relocating them to England, Spain and the Americas.  That's the reality of it.

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Before responding, I encourage everyone to read what is on Prepper's profile page.  It puts his comments into perspective.  Donald Trump finally had to spit the truth out and he blamed the conspiracy on Hillary Clinton.

          This is classic bigotry.

          1. Sgt Prepper profile image59
            Sgt Prepperposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I just hope somebody reads my profile & lone hub about the Titanic(RMS Olympic). Donald Trump donated a lot to BHO's 2008 campaign and spurred many of his wealthy friends to do likewise.
            It was Bill Clinton who referred to BHO in 2008 as "that non-citizen".
            Any "birther" worth his salt knows very well it WAS Hillary, who also in 2008, hired attorney Phillip Berg to uncover the truth about BHO's birth and illegality.
            I can definitely understand your disappointment.  We finally get an almost half-black president and he turns out to be illegal. And FYI in two different GOP Presidential primaries I voted for the black candidate     Alan Keyes & Dr Ben Carson.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Prepper, we have continued this discussion over at least 6 weeks.  You don't know anything about me or my thoughts.

              We are attempting to have a "productive" discussion on race.  This is not about taunting people.

              1. Sgt Prepper profile image59
                Sgt Prepperposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Diane you have been a Christian a little longer than I have(Feb'79) so you have probably been expecting to be "Raptured" too.  We can expect that blessed event any day now. With all your education you must have at some point happened upon the definition of "natural born Citizen". That is the first indication BHO is the man of lawlessness predicted in our Bible.  If you prefer I will no longer inject truths that don't agree with yours I will refrain and save you the aggravation.

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  The Lord may come tonight or in 20 years or one of us may die tonight.  We should be found faithful in and out of season to give reaon for the Hope that lies within us.

                  God has two basic commandments:
                  1.  Love the Lord your God with all your hearts, soul and strength AND
                  2.  Love thy neighbor as thyself.

                  #2 can easily trip us up.

            2. Say Yes To Life profile image82
              Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              What if, after leaving the White House, Obama turned around and said he in fact was born in Kenya and was a devout Shi'ite Muslim?  It would be too late to impeach him then!  LOL!!!

              1. Sgt Prepper profile image59
                Sgt Prepperposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Sometime soon this Kenyan-born, gay, commie, Moslem, son-of-a-pornstar, less than half-black usurper will become head of the UN & king of the world. I expect Shotgun Joe Biden will be suddenly thrust into the presidency & nominate that carpet-muncher Hillary our very first female VP. That will be the consolation prize for that murderous witch. Get ready!

                1. colorfulone profile image80
                  colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  You might be interested in some YouTube videos titled "Dreams from My Real Father: A Story of Reds and Deception".  -  Cheers!

                  1. Sgt Prepper profile image59
                    Sgt Prepperposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Just because registered-communist pedophile Frank Marshall Davis was most likely BHO's biological father has no effect on the Kenyan birth or Barack Senior providing his(?) son status as a British Subject.

                    1. colorfulone profile image80
                      colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      Good point, one I hadn't considered.  Ty!

                      A picture speaks a thousand words. 

                      http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13206010.jpg

                      Trump being given the Ellis Island Award in 1989 for contributing to the conditions of inner city black youths, standing alongside Muhammad Ali and Rosa Parks.

      8. profile image53
        frumpletonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I think it is difficult for people to speak about racial issues because they fear the unknown.  In some areas, people are only used to seeing white people or indians.  (Some of them were slaves, too, especially women)  But it takes a person with moral values to overlook the color of one's skin.  In my state (Maine) we have a bigot for a Governor.  He fears immigrants, although he just blames them for all the crimes.

        1. profile image0
          ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Ridiculous......, The governor of Maine is protecting his constituents , I wish the Gov. of Vermont would do the same  !        Racism is and always has been a double edged sword , NOT MANY HERE in these forums  can even begin to comprehend that !   Especially those who go about defending the riots in a place like Charlotte !

          1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
            wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13177904.jpg

            Well, hold on to your hat because there is more to come. After 500 years of oppression, people are starting to wake up and open their eyes to what's really going on. I find it remarkable that you decry the riot in North Carolina, but you have said nary a word about the proxy war started by the U.S. in Syria in 2011; a war  that has killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians, many of them children. Nor have you voiced any outrage over the destabilization of Iraq and Libya by the United States government; a crime against humanity that has also killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians, and caused untold misery. We are witnessing a program of genocide against the Muslim people that American citizens are bankrolling with their tax dollars, and a great majority here on Hubpages could give a damn. There is nothing that the rioters could do in Charlotte that could compare to the evil that continues to be perpetrated by this evil empire, even if they burned the city to the ground.

            Here is what former drone operators had to say about this evil government and what they were forced to do according to NBC News: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/for … m-n472496/

            Former Air Force airmen are speaking out against America's use of drone warfare, calling the military drone program "morally outrageous" and "one of the most devastating driving forces for terrorism and destabilization around the world."

            In interviews with NBC News, three former servicemen — who together have 15 years of military drone experience — decried the civilian cost of drone strikes and called on President Obama to "turn this around" before he leaves office.

            "We were very callous about any real collateral damage," said Michael Haas, 29, who worked as both a drone operator and instructor. "Whenever that possibility came up, most of the time it was a 'guilt by association' or sometimes we didn't even consider other people that were on screen."


            wrenchBiscuit Translates: In other words, it didn't matter who, or how many were near the intended target. As long as the intended target was neutralized, any collateral damage was  considered simply the cost of doing their bloody business.

            1. profile image0
              ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Wrenchbisquick , collateral  damage happens , it has happened at every battle known to mankind ! Accept it , it happens , it happened to Geronimo  and to bill Clinton in the cloak room . AND it will happen at every BLM  riot from its inception to the next one .   

              You've really got to get over Columbus  Wrench  , the modern world awaits the evolution of your  input.

              1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Perhaps I will get over Columbus when the rest of America stops celebrating Columbus Day every year.
                Your cavalier attitude is typically American. But when it all comes to a theatre near you, and the "collateral damage" happens to be your family, friends, and neighbors. I will be anxious to hear your response.

                1. profile image0
                  PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  We're told to get over years of oppression but "never forget" 9/11.

                  If one is worth remembering so is the other.

                  1. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Excellent point Pink!  Pearl Harbor Day is on all calendars.  What is the purpose of July 4?

                    If you will notice, there are quite a few white people out there.  Clearly it is not a Black/white issue.

                  2. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                    wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13206080.jpg

                    I agree. It's just one of the many examples of a double standard  here in the United States. But it is easy to understand why people of color are encouraged to forget the past as it concerns our ancestors. The remembering of our past serves to dismember the false narrative that America is the "Land of the Free", and that the founders were men of moral integrity. It is interesting that Americans don't have national holidays for the good white people, but only the bad. It has been said that money goes to money, and it also appears that evil goes to evil.

                    For example: There is no holiday for John Brown, but of course, there should be. John Brown was willing to sacrifice his life so that millions of African slaves could be free. It is easy to read such a story as it is written in a book. But John Brown had a real life. John Brown had a real family, and dreams that he wanted to fulfill. No one forced him to do what he did. Like millions of other white Americans during the antebellum, he could have simply looked the other way, focused on his own affairs, and let nature take it's course. But John Brown could not deny the evil and the suffering that was all around him. And the torment of the African slave, the very image of God, became his own torment. And so he was compelled to act. In a world of men, I can think of no greater love than that which was demonstrated by John Brown. And I can think of no American who is more deserving of a holiday, or national recognition.

                    1. profile image0
                      PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      I agree that our admiration for historical figures is often badly misplaced.

                    2. dianetrotter profile image62
                      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      You make some really good points.  All of the holidays we have are so we can "remember"; yet we are told to forget our past.

          2. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I'd like to know who defends the riots.  About this time yesterday, I sent a tweet telling those people to go home.  It copied to my Facebook page and I put a separate prayer that they stop detracting from the issue at hand.

            Colin Kaopernick has a much more civil way of express his concern about Blue/Black problems.  People complain about him.  I tweet and post my support for him and anyone who voices their concern and support in a civil manner.  Dr. MLK did and people today still try to pain him as a villain.

            I don't even support the peaceful protests UNLESS they can make sure none of the troublemakers are mixed in.  The kerchiefs around the heads were a dead give away.

            Tonight people are being peaceful.  There's a group with "Free Hugs" written on the shirts.  They are going up to hug police officers.  Curfew is at midnight.  Anyone out after curfew is breaking the law.

        2. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Yes I have heard the stupid things your wonderful Governor has said!  He needs to be "out" of office.

          I'm from Arkansas.  I didn't see Puerto Ricans until I went to Chicago to visit my cousins.  I remember seeing a Korean girl when a guy came back from service and brought his wife.

          I'm glad I came to California because it broadened my cultural awareness of people who are non-Black.  I don't overlook their color.  I ask questions to learn more about them.

          Thank you for commenting!

      9. Ivan Tod profile image61
        Ivan Todposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I think Michelle Obama was trying to impress upon us the fact that America has come a long way in it's developement as and its' acceptance of a multi-cultural society. We shouldn't forget that "America" originated as a "white" country. In its' beginning only whites were allowed to be American and are still the only "true" Americans. I think her statement was excellent even if many did'nt or don't understand it. Should she have made it?...Abolutely.

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Thank you Ivan.  I thought I had closed the forum for comment yesterday.  Lately I've been a bit discouraged at how current incidents can bring out the venom in some of us.  It is good to hear your response.

          1. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            So, Ivan, why are whites today the only 'true Americans'?

            1. Ivan Tod profile image61
              Ivan Todposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              You are very welcom Diane.
              Credence2, Glad you asked. The reason why whites today are the only true Americans is for the same reason they were in 1777 when they wrote and adopted the constitution. At the time the only ones considered able to be men were white men. In the white mind there were no black "men", just blacks. People are often confused when they read the constitution or at least hear about it in some other conversation because it does say "all men are created equal" but once you know who it actually considered to be men and who were not the rest falls into place. Since America was founded by white men it was a white mans country. If they wanted to they could actually use the constitution to subdue the rights of every other race of people that lives here. If you have any doubts about who the true Americans are, ask yourself this question; Why is it that every non-white race in america is referred to with a prefix like African American, Mexican American, Chinese American etc. etc..but whites are simply referred to as American?  and I've actually heard a white news reporter  refer to a crowd of white people as "Native Americans". I remember thinking "that woman is crazy" until I actually thought it over. Then I realized that she was at least partialy correct as the crowd was all white, filling half the eqaution. The other half of the equation would require knowing if they born in America...and they probably were.

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Interesting.  Now we gotta hear WB weigh in on this.

                1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                  wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13131199.jpg

                  He is absolutely correctomundo. This is why I am so big on History. My fascination with the past is directly related to my understanding of the present.  As a person of Indigenous heritage, I find it ludicrous, as well as insulting when people refer to me as a "Native American". There were no Americans on this continent prior to the European Invasion, and I do not identify with my oppressors. The only true Americans are the white Euro-Americans. If an Indigenous person, or any person of color chooses to accept the American identity then they are accepting cultural genocide, but it is their right to do so.

                  We must create our own nation separate from the Americans. And the first step in that direction is cultural education, and a movement away from all things European, including European languages. The only place we have in their world is still a seat in the back of the bus. Many will argue that the election of a black President is proof that racism is dead in America. But it is only proof that P.T. Barnum was right:  "There is a sucker born every minute". If his presidency was proof of substantial changes in the racial dynamic, then the Indigenous and the Blacks would not lay  dead in streets all across the United States; innocent men, women, and children gunned down by the goon squad that is paid to protect corporate America. The Americans do not  want us, and they certainly do not love us, but better yet, we do not need them.

              2. Credence2 profile image82
                Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I hear you, but the definition for what it is to be an American today is not what the definition was in 1777.

                The Constitution had been amended with expanded definition of citizenship throughout the last two centuries. So the definition of real AMERICAN has been amended as well, does that make it any less real ? The narrow interpretation of being AMERICAN in the 18th century doesn't make it a better definition merely because it was the first one.

                But In building AMERICA, white men stole land and made use of it at no cost and acquired free slave labor to build its economy. So there are IOUs involved, it is not the white man's country until the expropriated land and free labor is paid for? So they are not paid for it, to compensate, those unmentionable Minority groups get a 'cut' in the form of inclusion, being grafted in to that lily white tree, as it were?

                If they used the Constitution to subdue all non-whites, than AMERICA becomes a fascist, racist state. AMERICA is as much a product as it is a country, our ideals are as much on display as our products. If AMERICA did not really believe in equality under the law and all those lofty ideals, then there was going to be a cost. Can the current leader of the free world really be successful on the international stage as fascist state?

                Yes, I have doubts about your definition of true AMERICAN, and semantics have nothing to do with it. Regardless, of what you identify yourselves as, a real AMERICAN is one either born on U.S soil other otherwise naturalized. I call myself black or AFRICAN American, and I do not see myself as any less AMERICAN than a fellow citizen that is Anglo.

                This line of reasoning is a dangerous decline into the world of  the rightwing which is one of many reasons the races continue not to get along. The attitude that is behind the view that you express here.

                Welcome to the debate forums.... And hang on to your hat

                1. profile image0
                  ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  America - probably is most representative population  of all of the nations in the world ,there are  at last count - 196 countries .  What America isn't - is white European ,  how many sets of DNA are there  making up of  the human chromosome ?  23  that's 46   chromosomes , Almost  every single human being in America is made up of a percentage of all the minorities of the world  INCLUDING Africans
                  Here's a fact - If you are a woman , you are more apt to be oppressed in any one of those countries , any one of these minorities ,including America  - But are the popular  social reformers  of  American  protesters  whining about oppression  OF  POOR WOMEN ? OF POOR CHILDREN   Not hardly !  Not   In America .
                  DO SOCIAL  RECONSTRUCTIONISTS IN AMERICA  PICK AND CHOSE THIER SUBJECTS  , ACCORDING TO  REAL POVERTY LINES ?  NO.  ACCORDING TO THE  GENDER INEQUALITY?   DO THEY CHOSE THIER VICTIMS  ACCORDING TO AGE ?  NO !     It's all about an entitled black teenager  in Baltimore driving his mothers Lexus  on Saturday night and how he has to act  when he gets pulled by a cop !

                  Last night I watched a documentary about how women in Saudi-Arabia  are treated EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THIER LIVES ! These women are the most persecuted people in the world right now and   where are the social activists there ?  In jail  !    But in America  we're supposed to take seriously the poor black kid in the Lexus ?

                  Just trying to make people  think !

                  http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13208898.jpg

                  1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                    wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13120150.jpg

                    Three Perspectives,Nine Kachinas, and the Destruction of America

                    Tamir Rice.  Walter Scott. and Sandra Bland weren't driving a Lexus. Terence Crutcher, one of the last black men murdered by a cop wasn't driving a Lexus either. He was in a broken down van. And since you are so concerned about the Saudi's, perhaps you could go there and straighten them out.

                    An arrogant, unapologetic attitude is what led to the Civil War. Apparently, that lesson in history is lost on many Americans today. The Americans have defiled the image of God in Hispaniola, Sand Creek, Wounded Knee;Natchez Mississippi, and during the Red Summer of 1919. They have defiled the image of God  in Palestine, Syria, Afghanistan, and Libya. And they continue to mock the image of God  throughout the United States, as the Indigenous, the African, and the European are slaughtered by paid assassins sworn to uphold the law of a devil. Revelation 6:8-17 was written for America:


                    8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

                    9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

                    10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

                    11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

                    12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

                    13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

                    14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

                    15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

                    16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

                    17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?



                    In the words of Dr.Allen Ross:

                    "...World War III will be started by those peoples who first revealed the light (the divine wisdom or intelligence) in the other old countries (India, China, Islamic Nations, Africa.)

                    The United States will be destroyed, land and people, by atomic bombs and radioactivity. Only the Hopis and their homeland will be preserved as an oasis to which refugees will flee. Bomb shelters are a fallacy. "It is only materialistic people who seek to make shelters. Those who are at peace in their hearts already are in the great shelter of life. There is no shelter for evil. Those who take no part in the making of world division by ideology are ready to resume life in another world, be they Black, White, Red, or Yellow race. They are all one, brothers."

                    The war will be "a spiritual conflict with material matters. Material matters will be destroyed by spiritual beings who will remain to create one world and one nation under one power, that of the Creator."

                    That time is not far off. It will come when the Saquasohuh (Blue Star) Kachina dances in the plaza and removes his mask. He represents a blue star, far off and yet invisible, which will make its appearance soon. The time is foretold by a song sung during the Wuwuchim ceremony. It was sung in 1914 just before World War I, and again in 1940 before World War II, describing the disunity, corruption, and hatred contaminating Hopi rituals, which were followed by the same evils spreading over the world. This same song was sung in 1961 during the Wuwuchim ceremony.

                    The Emergence to the future Fifth World has begun. It is being made by the humble people of little nations, tribes, and racial minorities. "You can read this in the earth itself. Plant forms from previous worlds are beginning to spring up as seeds as described in SW-II, Effects and Coming Events # 1. This could start a new study of botany if people were wise enough to read them. The same kinds of seeds are being planted in the sky as stars. The same kinds of seeds are being planted in our hearts. All these are the same, depending how you look at them. That is what makes the Emergence to the next, Fifth World.

                    "These comprise the nine most important prophecies of the Hopis, connected with the creation of the nine worlds: the three previous worlds on which we lived, the present Fourth World, the three future worlds we have yet to experience, and the world of Taiowa, the Creator, and his nephew, Sotuknang."

                    The Hopi and others who were saved from the Great Flood made a sacred covenant with the Great Spirit never to turn away from him. He made a set of sacred stone tablets, called Tiponi, into which he breathed his teachings, prophecies, and warnings. Before the Great Spirit hid himself again, he placed before the leaders of the four different racial groups four different colors and sizes of corn; each was to choose which would be their food in this world. The Hopi waited until last and picked the smallest ear of corn. At this, the Great Spirit said:

                    "It is well done. You have obtained the real corn, for all the others are imitations in which are hidden seeds of different plants. You have shown me your intelligence; for this reason I will place in your hands these sacred stone tablets, Tiponi, symbol of power and authority over all land and life to guard, protect, and hold in trust for me until I shall return to you in a later day, for I am the First and I am the Last."

                  2. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    I don't know of a poor Black kid in a Lexus.  People (adults) involved in illegal activity drive fancy cars.   Some of them build empires illegally with ponzi schemes.  Hard working people think they are saving for their retirement but end up having to work longer or be poor.

                    Do you have an ax to grind with women?  Women are treated inhumanely in Muslim countries.  The U. S. is suppoed to be the standard bearer.  We should model the best treatment.

                    Over time people from many countries have come to America.  I don't think that was the case initially.  I'm not a historian so I don't know.

                2. Ivan Tod profile image61
                  Ivan Todposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  comment: "I hear you, but the definition for what it is to be an American today is not what the definition was in 1777."

                  answer: Actually, it's exactly the same. The difference being that now there are "amendments" to incorporate other races in support of the American ideology.

                  comment: "The narrow interpretation of being AMERICAN in the 18th century doesn't make it a better definition merely because it was the first one."

                  answer: If were strictly talking about definition you would have a case, but we're not. We're talking about a past mindset that has survived time.

                  comment: "it is not the white man's country until the expropriated land and free labor is paid for?"

                  answer: From a humanistic point of view it will never be the white mans land regardles of paying said "IOUs" but it will always be his "country" regardless.

                  comment: "If they used the Constitution to subdue all non-whites, than AMERICA becomes a fascist, racist state."

                  answer: News Flash!...America IS a fascist, racist state.

                  comment: "Can the current leader of the free world really be successful on the international stage as fascist state?"

                  answer: In case you were unaware, the world has globalized in all it's functions. It is currently under a socilialist agenda which is the second step towards fascism. The communist handbook can fill you in on the details of how to create a fascist world by turning democracy into socialism, socialism into fascism...etc. etc.. So , yes Americas supreme commander in chief, will not only succeed on a fascist platform but is and will be instrumental in the successful transformation of world government towards that end, at which time the American constitution will be null and void.

                  comment: "Yes, I have doubts about your definition of true AMERICAN"

                  answer: Well, being of the inherently ingrained white mindset, you would.

                  comment: "Regardless, of what you identify yourselves as, a real AMERICAN is one either born on U.S soil other otherwise naturalized."

                  answer: Perhaps you've lost sight of the question. At any rate, this newfound "American" you speak of is a consequence of the world move toward socialism. It does not, however, change the true per-se meaning of who is an American. American and American Citizen are two totally different groups hence the prefix given to all but whites. Most people don't understand that.

                  comment: "...I call myself black or AFRICAN American, and I do not see myself as any less AMERICAN than a fellow citizen that is Anglo."

                  answer: How one sees ones self is only pertinent to the overall cause of the globalist socialist agenda insomuch as; If one is to feel a part of the whole he must be given a sense of worth within that system regardless of whether or not that worth actually exists. 

                  comment: "This line of reasoning is a dangerous decline into the world of  the rightwing which is one of many reasons the races continue not to get along. The attitude that is behind the view that you express here."

                  answer: It would only be reasoning if it were not based in fact. As such it is not my "view" but an expression of the truth. The only time anyone has a problem with the truth is when it offends their sensibilities. The ingrained white superiority complex mindset of "white thoughts are right thoughts" is what drives many of the ideas, ideologies and courses of action we see in the world past, present and, in all likelihood, the future.

                  With that I say thank you for welcoming me to the forums.

      10. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        My favorite story in the news

        The friendship of George W. Bush and Michelle Obama

        http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/24/politics/ … _expansion

      11. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        The Talk!!!

        Some white people are offended when Black people say it is time to have "the talk" with their children.  I'm wondering what they are thinking "the talk" is.

        Basically, they are telling their kids to obey the police, announce that they are reaching to get their ID, not be argumentative, etc.

        I include do not dress in a way that will make you suspect.  Of course they have the right to dress the way they want to; however, sagging pants, white t shirts, hoodies, gold chains, gold in their teeth, etc., will cause officers to pause.  Also standing around in a group might look like illegal activity.

        Why would having "the talk" be so offensive?

        1. Credence2 profile image82
          Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          The problem that remains is that why do we have to take all the 'precautions' with our children? Obviously children of white parents don't need to give such things a second thought. When the time comes when you do not have to give these race oriented lectures to your children in a society where we are all supposed to be equal, will be the day we have reached the 'promised land'.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            True.

            I've come to the conclusion it is possible to explain something that is "wrong" to someone who a) has not experienced it or b) agrees with it.

            I just wonder why people would get mad when parents are trying to teach their children how to stay alive.

            1. Credence2 profile image82
              Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Who do you think is taking offense about this need to lecture our children?

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Mayor De Blasio said he was going to have to have "the talk" with his son.  This was last year some time.  Several people made offensive comments on news programs.  They were offended that he would talk to his son about ?  race I suppose. I saw offensive comments under the article.

          2. wilderness profile image78
            wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            What precautions?  To not join a gang, or make an effort to look like a gang member?  To not make a concerted effort to look like a delinquent out to see what kind of trouble they can get in? 

            My son (white) was stopped once for a dirty license plate.  Of course, the real reason is that he was filthy, covered with grease and shirtless.  You look like you're up to no good, expect to be stopped and questioned.  And it doesn't matter what race you are.  You will disagree, but I appreciate the cops that have been on the beat long enough to build instincts about that kind of thing and do a little proactive policing instead of waiting for a crime to happen.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              So you do get upset about the way kids look?  You couldn't be a teacher.  The sagging done by the Black kids is also done by the white kids at the school.  It's against school policy but the school does nothing.

              1. wilderness profile image78
                wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Upset?  No.  Disgusted?  Yes.  Would I have some of them in customer service?  Absolutely not.  Do I sometimes assign "danger" to dress styles?  Yes.

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I hate the dress styles also.  I was hoping it would be a thing of the past like nehru jackets and culottes.  In the 90s they wore pants a size or two too large.  Now manufacturers make them to fit below their hip line.

            2. Credence2 profile image82
              Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

              That the whole problem, I don't trust allowing as much discretion for police as you appear comfortable with.... For a job of this nature, I want all Law enforcement officers required to keep cameras operating while on duty.

              I, you or they have the right to "look" any way that they choose, without being harassed by police. What is pro-active policing? I can't  subscribe to your 'Mayberry', values and instincts, sorry. Are you or are you not in compliance with the law, that is the only relevant question.

              With the current race based problems involving police encounters, from our standpoint it appears that to the police all black males may be considered up to no good.... Look at the reasoning behind 'stop and frisk'. Why should we trust their instincts?

              You're right about one thing, yes, I disagree, respectfully as always.

              1. wilderness profile image78
                wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Proactive policing: prevent crimes from happening instead of putting people in jail (or shooting them) for committing a crime. 

                You should trust their instincts because they are far, far better than your own.  It can be seen in the use of "our" and that it appears to you that to the police all black males may be considered up to no good.  The second is about as far from being true as it is possible to get, but still your "instinct".

                1. Credence2 profile image82
                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  My values as to what is considered 'up to no good' may differ from your own. The standards of the fellow from Idaho are not by any means 'universal'. I would rather rely of factual data from camera, than listen to a cops' reason for harrassing a citizen based upon their instinct of what does not look right.

                  Look, Wilderness, you are always taking an all or nothing stance. There is nothing wrong with the instructions to youth by parents stuff, you talk about. I just  do not see why it has to be one or the other rather than both options? Your belief that black folks exaggerate on the issue of general racial animosity within too many municipal police departments sound the same to me as your hysterical fear that Hillary coming to take all of your guns. Now that sounds ludicrous to me. Such is the difference between left and right........

                2. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  People have their values before they take jobs.  They take their values with them.  A lady got fired for tweeting that Michelle Obama was an ugly be-atch after the DNC.  Some people saw the post, found her on FB, and called here employer.  She was a loan officer(?) or something at a financial institution.  She got fired real quickly.  Her comment was in conflict with anti-discriminiation laws; i.e., whose to say should wouldn't deny a loan because of race, creed or color.

            3. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
              wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13211060.jpg

              Wow! Good Golly Miss Molly! I had to laugh when I saw this. Is this what Idaho is really like? So because a person is "filthy" and covered with grease, you feel that the police are justified in profiling them. In other words, a mechanic, field hand, factory worker , or construction worker is naturally a suspect because they are dirty. And of course, because they didn't take a shower and change their clothes before heading home, according to you,  they deserve to be pulled over and harassed by a Donut Hound; even your own son. What about those who don't have the facilities available to clean up before going home? I never imagined that someone who looked like he had been working and busting his hump for 8-12 hours would be considered up to no good. And so, based on your previous commentary, we can understand that in your Private Idaho, people who don't have jobs(especially black people) are lazy and no good. Now, we also understand that people who do have jobs but come home dirty, are people who look like they are up to no good.

              Please, for your own safety, don't ever make such a comment in a  bar full of coal miners. This reminds of another forum where you commented that the life of your son was not worth stricter gun control. You explained that it would inconvenience millions of consumers. Of course, you were referring to Neanderthals who must substitute lethal weaponry for a sex life. I am impressed with your love of authority, and apparently you find no intrusion to be unwelcome. The good news is, you will have no problem at all with martial law. Years ago when I watched the Stepford Wives I really thought that it was only a movie, a work of fiction. But I am beginning to realize now that it was prophecy. However, in spite of your uncanny world vision, I really do like baked potatoes, with butter and sour cream.

        2. Ivan Tod profile image61
          Ivan Todposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Hey Diane, "the talk" is only offensive to those who are truly out of touch with the way things are in America. If the shoe were on the other foot and America was founded, developed and built, on the backs of white people as a "black" country and whites were here as a matter of consequence THEY would be the ones having the talk with their young sons. So, it's a matter of perspective and refusing to "see" and accept reality.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I think it is a barrier to healing.  It causes resentment which further polarizes those without understanding.

      12. Let-freedom-rigng profile image60
        Let-freedom-rigngposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Well, don't you think things are changing toward the better? People often discriminate for other reasons as well. But, I do think in this generation, things are improving.

        It may depend on where you live as well. And the way we choose to carry ourselves and dress as well. Kind of shows which lifestyle we are gearing ourselves for.

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I'm sure that I did not say things have not changed.

          I experienced great discrimination in Arkansas, during the time Central High was being integrated.  I experienced colored water fountains, colored bathrooms, riding on the back of the bus and going to the back door.

          This have changed.  Some people are not taking advantage of opportunities.  That is a problem.

      13. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Consider circumstances of a case when social media covers a Black man killed by police.  GabbyLisa sent me on a goose chase but I found this.

        Tawon Boyd called 911 himself.  It seems he has mental issues  I don't say that lightly because my sister is bipolar and unable to interact with people.

        Community policing might help officers know who people with mental issues are.

        Back to Boyd  no gun, 5'5", 122 lbs
        http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/man- … s-42271391   
        A black man died three days after he called police to his suburban Baltimore home during an outburst of strange behavior and was punched in the face and held to the ground by officers, police and relatives said.

        Tawon Boyd, 21, died Wednesday after spending three days in a hospital following the confrontation with officers Sunday morning outside his home in Middle River. Baltimore County police said in a statement that he became aggressive with officers, who used physical force to subdue him.

        "They kept on grabbing on him and holding him down, and he started screaming, 'Grandma, Grandma, they're going to kill me,'" Linda Burch, Boyd's grandmother, told The Associated Press. Burch, 51, had been staying with her grandson and witnessed the confrontation across the street from his home.

        An autopsy is being conducted to determine the cause of death. A lawyer for Boyd's family, Latoya Francis-Williams, told The Associated Press that Boyd's kidneys and heart failed. She said it's not clear whether his death resulted from the beating or a medical condition, but she said he hadn't experienced kidney failure previously.

        "He didn't have those bruises. He wasn't battered before this. He wasn't unconscious before this," Francis-Williams said Thursday. "All of the physical injuries came from the severe beating he took on Sunday."

        The confrontation occurred after Boyd himself called 911, police and Francis-Williams said Thursday. The lawyer and police initially believed Boyd's girlfriend had placed the call. Francis-Williams said the operator heard Boyd's girlfriend in the background saying he needed medical attention. Boyd did not ask for medical aid and officers responded because the call indicated a domestic disturbance, police said in a statement.

        When police arrived, Boyd told officers there was someone inside his house, but in fact there was no intruder, according to a police report obtained by The AP. He "appeared to be confused and paranoid," police said in the report, and his girlfriend told officers he was acting "crazy."

        The confrontation with police began after Boyd repeatedly banged on the door of a neighbor's home and officers tried to pull him away to keep him from going inside, according to the police report. Police said Boyd also tried to enter several marked police cars. He refused to obey orders to lie down and put his hands on his back, and began grabbing and kicking officers, injuring three of them, police said.

        "I think they killed him," Burch told AP. "By them being so many, and they tall and big, and he's small. It didn't take all them police just to try to hold him down."

        Boyd was 5-foot-5 inches tall, according to court records, and Francis-Williams said he weighed 122 pounds.

        Francis-Williams said she's found no evidence that Boyd was violent before officers started beating him.

        "Blows to the head, choking somebody — that's deadly force," Francis-Williams said. "I haven't heard any officer articulate that his or her life was in danger or there was an actual threat of severe bodily injury or death."

        One officer punched Boyd twice in the face because Boyd was hanging onto him, according to the police report. The officers restrained Boyd by holding him down with their arms and legs, the report said. The confrontation with police lasted about five minutes, and five officers were involved, the report said.

        Medics were called during the struggle and gave Boyd something to calm him down, but the name of the medication was redacted from the police report. Police said medical privacy laws prevent them from detailing the treatment.

        The report said officers believed Boyd was under the influence of a narcotic. Boyd's uncle, Prinice Thomas, told AP that he had never known Boyd to use any drug other than marijuana.

        Boyd worked as a forklift operator, his family's attorney said, and he had a 3-year-old son with his girlfriend, Deona Styron, who was pregnant with the couple's second child. In June, Styron sought a temporary protective order against him, alleging that he hit and choked her, according to court records.

        "He gets mad and starts hitting me and fussing at me and I can't take it anymore. He needs to seek help," Styron wrote.

        Styron did not return a message left at a number listed for her.

        Homicide detectives are investigating the incident, standard procedure in police-involved deaths. The department did not reveal the races of the officers.

        Like many black men who have died during confrontations with police, Boyd's name was trending as a hashtag on Twitter, but there were no immediate protests. Boyd died on the same day that Baltimore County prosecutors said no charges would be filed in the death of Korryn Gaines, a 23-year-old black woman who, police and prosecutors said, pointed a shotgun at officers during a standoff at her apartment.

        About 70 people gathered for a community meeting Thursday night in Randallstown, where Baltimore County State's Attorney Scott Shellenberger faced questions from residents about his decision not to bring charges in the Gaines case.

        Kelly Carter, executive director for the Liberty Road Business Association, said the two cases have reinforced her concerns that the county's police department needs to work on community relations.

        "I think that they need to go back to the drawing board and create new training programs for the officers," Carter said after the meeting. "And I think there needs to be more of a presence in building community relations."

        Activists with the Black Lives Matter movement protested over Gaines' death, and a wrongful-death lawsuit has been filed.

        Francis-Williams said lawsuits were possible and that the county's police department has problems similar to neighboring Baltimore city, where a Justice Department investigation found repeated civil rights violations. The investigation followed the death of Freddie Gray, a black man who died after suffering a spinal injury while riding in a Baltimore police van.

        ———

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/12807844.jpg

          You've got Ozzie and Harriet responding to this thread who live in Mayberry Idaho, and who go squirrel hunting with the local sheriff. Of course they don't see police brutality in their insular white world. People of all races are being brutalized by these thugs in uniform. Their power to violently assault citizens needs to be severely limited. It is getting increasingly difficult to distinguish the police from Hitler's Brown Shirts.

        2. Ivan Tod profile image61
          Ivan Todposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Being a cop is a mindset induced primarily through their training. Need I say more? That's why you see various races of cops, black, white, what have you, all committing the same violent behaviours towards black people. The cop mindset is one that daemonizes blacks and reduces them to non-human status.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Ivan it slays me how people can demonize kids that are doinig kid things.

            1. Ivan Tod profile image61
              Ivan Todposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Well Diane, it all comes down to one thing which is what I said about who the only True Americans are. The civil rights movement of the '60's may have given blacks certain rights but the one thing it did not and will never do is make whites see blacks as equal human beings. So if you carry forward from 1777 to today the true "American" mindset then it becomes easy to see how they can demonize children. Of course there are exceptions to every rule but for the most part this generalization applies to the majority as is evidenced by so many of them claiming to not "see" the problem but rather they put the blame of police brutality on the victims themselves. In their eyes the offspring of subhumans are simply smaller subhumans. I remember my grandmother telling me about her father, who was Tuscarora, and how he was simply taken as a child and confined to a "re-education" school. She also told me how during the 2nd white war or, WWII as they refer to it, the young "colored" men (my gram referred to all non-whites as colored), practically boys, were grabbed right off of the street and forced to enlist with no recourse for their families. The only way one group can do such things to another is by not seeing the other group as equal human beings. That's why so many whites don't understand the need for the "Talk" and see it as anti-social and promoting distrust and fear of the police.

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I believe in friendship evangelism!  I understood immediately what you meant about the only true Americans.

      14. Lovey McLaughlin profile image59
        Lovey McLaughlinposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Slavery shouldn't and cannot be forgotten. It is difficult for people to discuss race relations because a lot of people still have inherent biases.

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Ah!  Thank you for joining!  You are an interesting person.  I taught choral music in school until January 2016.  Kids would say, Please don't make us sing OPRAH!"

          Your job must be very stressful.  Can you tell me if 911 operators are supposed to dispatch every word that comes in from callers to responding officers.  I'm speaking of calls that say a) person is mentally ill, b) person has a gun but it looks fake, etc.

          Thanks again for joining us!

      15. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        6 year old WHITE kid killed by Louisiana police.

        http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/201 … r-old.html

        ahorse, it is happening to white people also.

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13215300.jpg
          Absolute animals! I'm tired of hearing people talk about the "good cops" Apparently, it's not the good cops who are killing 6 year old white kids, and 12 year old black kids! So we need to stop talking about and praising the so-called "good cops", and start doing something about the "bad cops", since they are the ones doing all of the killing. As I have suggested before, and I am serious: Give them donuts instead of guns, as it will help to improve their social skills.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            ROFL!!!  I had to look twice.

      16. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        example of the bigotry that we imagine

        ‘BEYOND OPINION’
        Racist Trump Troll in a Gorilla Mask Is Exposed

        http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 … DAfternoon

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I read the story.Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but when I look at the guys picture I see he has that "inbred" look that was portrayed in the movie "Deliverance". People like him give banjo's a bad name.

      17. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Here we go with the monkeys again!!!!!  How can we imagine these things are happening when they are all over the Internet.

        Mayor pushed to resign after racist Facebook posts

        http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/29/politics/ … index.html 

        The calls for resignation come after a Facebook page apparently belonging to Wasko posted in June a picture of a monkey, saying it's a picture of Michelle Obama and a wagon of orangutans captioned "moving day at the White House."
        However, that's not the only offensive content the Facebook page has posted, or even the most recent. He has various posts calling Obama and Hillary the leaders of ISIS, Hillary behind bars, and various others. One of the more overt posts was a picture of Clint Eastwood holding a noose with the text "Barry this rope is for you. Wanna bring that empty chair over here!"

      18. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Why can't wrongly accused Black people be seen as innocent after dna test results and admission of the crime by someone else.


        Central Park 5 accused of "Wilding."  Wilding was labels as something "Black" people do? 

        Please don't veer off to people who have been proven guilty unless it is a comparison.  Commission of a crime makes one guilty.

        Donald Trump and the Central Park Five
        http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-david … -park-five

        What ‘The Central Park Five’ Teaches Us About a Trump Administration 
        http://flavorwire.com/578741/what-the-c … nistration

      19. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        School worker gets fired.  Accurate history cannot be taught to students.  Why does one thing she can give her personal opinion on a person's looks?

        Some don't want to talk about slavery; however, they keep the gorilla/monkey comparisons going which come from the slavery philosophy that Africans were animals. 

        Atlanta school employee fired after racist Facebook post about Michelle Obama

        http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/atlant … id=magnews


        http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13226336.png
        I hope picture shows. I guess I need a jpg.

        1. Credence2 profile image82
          Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          The president and his wife has been subject to so much of this nonsense by this sort.  But, I don't care what they think, after all who in fact actually takes residence at 1600 Pensyvania Ave? It is just sour grapes and they are frustrated that there is nothing they can do about reality verses their wishful thinking.

          Attacking the first Lady and the two girls is a bit below the belt. I do remember GW Bush being referred to as a 'chimp'. But at least LAURA and his daughters were left alone.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            To quote Dirty Donald, "The last 24 hours have been interesting."  May be a paraphrase.

      20. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        WB, did you know about this!

        Quest to change Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples Day sails ahead

        http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/09/us/columb … d=29783458

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13218349.jpg

          Yes! I and many others have been fighting for many years to end the hideous spectacle of Columbus Day. There are many people across the country who have awakened to the realization that they have been celebrating the life of a thief and mass murderer.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
            Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            roll blame the Renaissance

          2. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            It is good for history to be accurate.  The article stated that Columbus never stepped on the North American shore.  I remember vivid pictures that were planted in our heads.

      21. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Darn women might keep Donald Trump from becoming president.  He is encouraging white people to, after they vote for him, go to "those neighborhoods" to watch what is going on.

        What can they tell by watching?

        1. Say Yes To Life profile image82
          Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          To deal with my current flashbacks of traumas suffered from the ripe old age of 8, I have done some research about African Americans.  This is what I've found:

          * 28% live in poverty;  24% are working class; 36% are middle class; 11% are upper middle class; and 1% are wealthy.

          * Currently, America is facing a crisis in which many children do not advance beyond their parents' standard of living.  African American middle class youth are especially vulnerable; they are the most likely to REGRESS financially.

          * A major factor in this regression is teen pregnancy.  40% of girls in the US will get pregnant before age 20.  Among African Americans, this rate is 48% - almost HALF.  57% of them will give birth, and 90% of them will not marry the father.  The vast majority of them will not finish high school, thus guaranteeing poverty.

          * 1/3 of black males will be arrested by age 24.  1/6 of black men are either incarcerated or on parole.  1 in 100 black women are incarcerated.  I heard on NPR a few days ago that in preschool, black boys are scrutinized the most, while black girls are virtually ignored.  According to my experience, girls are just as bad, if not worse, than boys.  They may mellow when they get older, but they go on to produce thugs.  Wouldn't that make the women just as guilty???

          Apparently, my traumas result from the bottom 28%.  While that is a minority, just how pervasive is that 28%?  There are a few wealthy African American neighborhoods, mostly along the East Coast:  https://www.quora.com/Are-there-predomi … rime-rates
          but there are far more dangerous ghettos.  Atlanta has long been the African American capital of the US, well known for the opportunities it affords them.  Even that city has a high crime rate.

          African Americans are the most disliked group in the US.  They are also disliked in many countries throughout the world.  Apparently, that 28% is doing some serious damage to our reputation.  I say we do something about that 28%!

          1. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            * 28% live in poverty;  24% are working class; 36% are middle class; 11% are upper middle class; and 1% are wealthy.
            --------
            OK

            * Currently, America is facing a crisis in which many children do not advance beyond their parents' standard of living.  African American middle class youth are especially vulnerable; they are the most likely to REGRESS financially.
            ---------
            Our grip on prosperity is so much more tenuous than than that of whites because of recent history, so of course that is true.

            * A major factor in this regression is teen pregnancy.  40% of girls in the US will get pregnant before age 20.  Among African Americans, this rate is 48% - almost HALF.  57% of them will give birth, and 90% of them will not marry the father.  The vast majority of them will not finish high school, thus guaranteeing poverty.
            -------------
            This trend is affecting white communities as well, it will take a little longer but the advantage of wealth and privilege won't last forever.

            * 1/3 of black males will be arrested by age 24.  1/6 of black men are either incarcerated or on parole.  1 in 100 black women are incarcerated.  I heard on NPR a few days ago that in preschool, black boys are scrutinized the most, while black girls are virtually ignored.  According to my experience, girls are just as bad, if not worse, than boys.  They may mellow when they get older, but they go on to produce thugs.  Wouldn't that make the women just as guilty???
            -------________
            I can't deny this, I never got into fist fights with white girls. But but black girls resolve differences through fighting. I wish some of black females could weigh in here and explain why. But to describe their offsprings as automatic thugs goes beyond the pale. Most children mature as they grow older.

            Apparently, my traumas result from the bottom 28%.  While that is a minority, just how pervasive is that 28%?  There are a few wealthy African American neighborhoods, mostly along the East Coast:  https://www.quora.com/Are-there-predomi … rime-rates
            but there are far more dangerous ghettos.  Atlanta has long been the African American capital of the US, well known for the opportunities it affords them.  Even that city has a high crime rate.
            ------------
            Your problem is making sure that the remaining 72 percent are not castigated by your 'trauma'. Trauma cancome from any number of sources and experiences, and I have had more than a few that I source to problems with whites. There are more blacks living in poverty than living at the one percent, so of course there are going to be more ghettos.

            African Americans are the most disliked group in the US.  They are also disliked in many countries throughout the world.  Apparently, that 28% is doing some serious damage to our reputation.  I say we do something about that 28%!
            --------------------
            I don't know, when I was in Europe, AFRICAN American men were preferred and popular with the fräulein in Germany. I had a great time, the Europeans has fewer issues with us. I never sensed the subconscious racial awareness that always hung in the air between Blacks and Whites, within the States and almost always taken for granted like gravity, but when you jump from a cliff, you are quickly reminded.  Cultural arrogance was the possession of the white AMERICAN. Black Americans were simply seen as not so smug. A more avid desire to work within the European culture to living the adage, 'when in Rome'....... We get much of the bad rap abroad because of dissemination of the American racial standard through out the world, incorrectly influencing people, consciously and subconsciously.

            1. Say Yes To Life profile image82
              Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Credence2 - I admit, I erred regarding international dislike of African Americans.  I too was very well received throughout Europe, especially Germany and Austria. 

              However, I stand by the rest of my post.  In fact, I will add the antagonistic sector of African Americans approaches 52%.  Working class North Oakland was not as bad as ghetto East Oakland, but it had its issues.  The school where I got the black eye was actually in Piedmont, a wealthy sector.  In 1988, East Palo Alto was the murder capital of the US; considering it had no projects, I wouldn't call it a proper ghetto.

              True, not all poor / working class blacks are troublemakers, and not all black troublemakers are poor / working class.  But you have to admit, a lot of them are out there.

              Then there are the blacks in high places who use their money to get away with crimes, like O.J. Simpson and Bill Cosby...

              1. Ivan Tod profile image61
                Ivan Todposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                It's funny that you mention those two cases. O.J was found not guilty by a jury of his so-called peers and Bill Cosby didn't get brought into the defamation limelight until he started speaking out against "thug" behaviour by young black men...both apparently having a "thing" for white women. Everyone who watched the O.J. fiasco saw the lack of credible evidence and that the evidence put forth was actually fabricated. Bill Cosby...well, the message to him was that he should have just continued on being a white mans black man, but since he started to advocate for civility and sensibility among inner city youth he got blackballed by the powers that be! Their high visibility was perfect in perpetuating the fabricated falsity of the "inferiority" of black men. I could be wrong...or I could be right.

                1. Credence2 profile image82
                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  You sir, are very perceptive are you sure that you are not a black man in 'white face'? You speak of things that I thought that only WE could understand or appreciate.

                  1. Ivan Tod profile image61
                    Ivan Todposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Injustice is injustice...
                    That being said, I'll put it like this; being part white and part Tuscarora from a "segregated" village in New York...that's right...segregation in New York right up until the '80s. I look white but through my lifes experiences I have found that blacks are not the only people disliked or looked upon as inferior here in America. Even though I could "pass" for being all white I make it a point to let those interested know the facts of my heritage. I give credit to my Grandmother for the way I am as she would always point out the "unspoken" to me even as a child. It caused me to be very observant of my surroundings and as such I have come to be able to see right through the facade that others would put up. My time in U.S.A.F. intelligence afforded me the resources and opportunity to become very learned in propaganda and psychological warfare which brought me to the realization that many people are propagandistic, even though they are unaware of it, in their "explanation" of how they think things are. Personally, I can see the things hidden in plain sight.
                    I recently read a comment on this thread that reminded me of something that happened some years back. A white female college student had visited a local Native American website and was asking a lot of questions inconsistant with the purpose of the site. Turns out she was "researching" for a term paper about the local so-called "indians". When I told her that the site was community oriented and that her questions were inappropriate she got upset and came with their usual response of "I'm just trying to help you people". The reason I bring this up is because, like I explained to members of that site, white people have this ingrained ages old superiority complex. They are always right, no matter what the subject matter. And when their intentions or beliefs are brought into question the response is "I'm just trying to help you"...as if non-whites are unable to help themselves or achieve any positive outcomes without the help of the superior race. So, it's not just that I understand what you understand but rather it's that WE understand the things that EVERYONE should understand but because of certain psychologically ingrained perceptions all are simply not CURRENTLY capable of understanding.

                    1. dianetrotter profile image62
                      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      the realization that many people are propagandistic, even though they are unaware of it, in their "explanation" of how they think things are.

                      Ah!  You can see through the Bull Sugar Honey Iced Tea!

              2. Credence2 profile image82
                Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I think 52 percent is high, so you are saying that all those in poverty and the working class are antogonistic. I don't see your reasoning for this.

                Just because you have a couple of high profile black men with questionable criminal involvement, after all OJ was acquitted, does not speak for the vast majority who are no different then their affluent peers. How does that differ them in any substative way from mischievous white celebrity? Why apply a differing standard here?

              3. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                You do realize what it sounds like you are saying, right?  Or at least what I am understanding from reading it.

          2. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            ?  I guess I didn't communicate this well.

            Trump is concerned that there will be cheating at the polls.

            When we are dealing with human beings one on one, there are times when statistics do not apply.  That 28% have problems.  Why the hatred for Michelle Obama which is a highly educated, intelligent, attractive motivating force who wants to encourage people to "go high" while others are going low.  Using 28% to dislike her is irrational.

            1. Ivan Tod profile image61
              Ivan Todposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              It's not irrational, Diane, it's simply a certain demographic grasping at straws to protect their ingrained sensibilities of racial superiority. Michelle Obama is the one thing that white America hates and feares the most. How? well, she is a black person who, by the nature of her position as first lady, has stared the racist nature of the true Americans right in the face and as such has told them that their ideology of the black person is wrong...and she is a woman. Now, I'm sure that SOME hear will say that women have equal this and equal that but the fact of the matter is that women in general are still looked upon as inferior to men, which is still the belief of the original Americans.
              So, what we have in Michelle is that she is a black woman holding the second highest position in a country that was originated by white people that saw and see blacks as inferior. As far as the "statistics" go, they're like averages...they only really account for a few while being applied to the whole. The statistics game is simply used to marginalize a portion of the population. Problem is that those marginalized folk got together and elected a black president.

              1. Credence2 profile image82
                Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Now, you are cooking with gas!!! This was very honest and prescient, thanks..

              2. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                And bigoted people are so ingrained in their stew that they will elect a narcissistic, arrogant, womanizing, instigating, unfaithful husband who hates old women even though he is aging to be president.

                People quote Dr. MLK.  How many quote, "judged by the content of their character and not the color of their skin."

                It is disheartening to experience much of the marginalization that I feel here.

                1. Ivan Tod profile image61
                  Ivan Todposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  dianetrotter wrote:

                  "And bigoted people are so ingrained in their stew that they will elect a narcissistic, arrogant, womanizing, instigating, unfaithful husband who hates old women even though he is aging to be president."

                  Have you ever heard the story about the frog in the pot of water? The frog was put in a pot of cold water and the pot was put on the stove. The water heating gradually did not give the frog cause for concern and had actually began to feel pretty good. Then as the water began to boil the frog finally realized, albeit too late, that he was being cooked.

                  Donald Trump is the cook, America is the pot and his constituents are the frogs!  As for the rest of us...we are, as my father used to say; S.O.L.! (s*it outta luck!).

                  1. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    I hadn't heard that one.  I hope I get the opportunity to use it.

      22. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        To say "Racial bigotry is not a problem" is to bury your head in the sand.


        Students expelled after Facebook group calls for 'execution' of Jews, black people
        The Guardian Website
        https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 … CMP=twt_gu

        1. Credence2 profile image82
          Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          "Darn women might keep Donald Trump from becoming president.  He is encouraging white people to, after they vote for him, go to "those neighborhoods" to watch what is going on."

          What can they tell by watching?

          Diane, these so call poll watchers are just attempting to intimidate Minority voters, but it is not going to work. The state and municipalities will have appointed people on hand to keep the troublemakers under control.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I remember colored people going to the polls in groups when I was a child.  My dad volunteered to drive a group.  There was an organization, can't remember the name of it now, that informed colored people of their rights and organized rides to the polls.

            1. Sgt Prepper profile image59
              Sgt Prepperposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              If you people really cared about justice you would demand answers for why the Secret Service killed a black single-mother named Miriam Carey in a White House parking lot.

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I remember when it happened.  Do you have any information for us?

                1. Sgt Prepper profile image59
                  Sgt Prepperposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  The young woman was supposedly one who became PG by BHO during a dental visit.  She thought she was going to show the baby-daddy the kid. She panicked when the heavily-armed Secret Service approached her car and tried to turn around and drive away so they removed the baby from the car and shot the driver Miriam repeatedly.

                  1. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    I believe that as much as the birther thingy.  Stuff like that cannot be hidden.  Jesse Jackson tried to hide his mess but it was revealed.  John Edwards is a classic case. 

                    People start those rumors about BHO because they hate him.  It is easier to spread rumors to suggest that he should be hated than to come out and boldly say, "I hate him."

                    I don't agree with BHO on all of his positions.  Neither do I hate him.

                    1. Sgt Prepper profile image59
                      Sgt Prepperposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      I believe even God hates the Antichrist. Perhaps you can explain the Connecticut Social Security number BHO is now using when he never lived, worked or went to school in that state. Obama is a complete fraud.  He isn't even half-black as a grandmother of his legal father was an Arab-Bedouin(Caucasoid).

      23. dianetrotter profile image62
        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Can any of us agree that police officers need special training to handle mental health calls???  It's only productive when we discuss issues related to the forum. 

        I doubt that this person is Black; however, I think someone mentioned that this is not a problem for white people.  No identity given yet.

        Is there a better way to handle these?
           
        Austin Police Fatally Shoot Woman After Mental Health Call

        http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/aus … ll-n667241   

        Police fatally shot a woman in Austin, Texas, early Sunday after her husband placed a mental health call because he was worried about his wife's behavior.

        1. Ivan Tod profile image61
          Ivan Todposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I'm sorry to say that I think they have had that training, that's why they do what they do in those instances. Police killing of the mentally ill happens all too often for it to be coincidental. And then they just tell the public that the killing was somehow justified. Always making it seem through their "explanation" as though the lives of the police on the scene were in some way immediately at risk. The fact of the matter is that NO lives, other than the lives of those who serve and protect the power elite and the lives of the power elite themselves matter. This should be obvious by the casual way they handle these public killings of not only the mentally ill but anyone else who gets in their way. And it's not just what they say, but also how they say it.

          A fitting Indigenous First Peoples quote from Black Hawk Indian, Sauk~

          "How smooth must be the language of the whites, when they can make right look like wrong, and wrong like right."

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Wow!  With the declining white population and increasing non-white population I hope things will change for the better.  However, it is part of human nature for some to want to be superior to others.  This seems to play out when there is any group of humans. 

            Geez!  I started to write "I was nowhere on the totem pole."  It's interesting as we become more sensitive to the concerns of others, we can see where what we say might be offensive.  It's been interesting getting the perspectives of you and WB.

            1. profile image0
              ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Diane ,

              "Wow  !,With the declining white generation and increasing non-white I hope things will change for the better ".
              Now if I've ever heard a more race generated statement , it pales to this one  !


              To me - this statement says about all that anyone with true insight into humanity , needs to hear to understand the basic race narrative of TODAY . thank you for clarifying this .

              1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13238455_f1024.jpg

                Newsflash! During the antebellum many slaves hated their evil masters and wished for them to die. Did that make them "bad people"? Of course not. Anyone who has been kidnapped and forced into perpetual servitude would be a fool not to hate their oppressor. There were also times when my people killed as many white people as they could. Does this mean that my people were evil? Of course not. My ancestors were defending themselves against an evil aggressor who sought to murder them, and to steal everything in sight. Only a fool would go fishing while Invaders go about their business of rape, theft, and murder. But apparently they did not kill enough to make a difference.

                And since the beginning of Reconstruction until now, people of color have continued to be oppressed by a white majority. The fact that many hope things will get better once the whites become a minority is a valid concern. Your argument that the OP's statement is "race generated" is sorely misplaced, since the race that has committed the greatest acts of terrorism; the race that has "generated" a feeling of fear and hatred for over 500 years on this continent; the race that is still pretending Jesus while committing acts of terrorism here and around the world ... is the "white race".

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  WB, as I do my family research, I see bonds created between some (definitely not most) slave owners and slaves.  Of course, these were not the first generation slaves but those who were born on the plantations.  Slave owners sometimes gave large pieces of land for all of their slaves and their freedom.

                  The wife of the slave owner of my Tate ancestors did not like slavery and she became an advocate for the slaves.  She wrote books and articles extensively.  She even talked about what it was like to see the newborn babies of slaves that grew up to look like their husbands.  I've got to find her name again.

                  Anyway, not everyone will ever feel the same way about anything.  I would like to sense that people are "doing unto others as they would have others do unto them."  Often, as now, it doesn't matter if the government structure is meant to be equal, it is the hearts of men and women that determine relationships.

                2. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  ahorse,  I don't remember the article (book) that you and I talked about.  The article was about white man's concern that they were being marginalized.  There is concern about "reverse" discrimination.

                  With the decline of the white population, that will shift the balance of power.  It will be gradual.  I'm hoping people will not want to "get even" because they are the larger number.  Right now there is concern about bigotry.  In the future, I'd like to think there would be none; however, human nature will have a lot to do with that.

                  I try to state reality and it is impossible to do that without talking about ethnicities.  It looks like I didn't communicate it well.

                  Is this any clearer?  if not, can you give me your thoughts on the decline of the white population and increase of non-white population.  How will that affect government, culture, economy.

                  I'm sorry if what I said was offensive.

                3. Ivan Tod profile image61
                  Ivan Todposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Here is something that you will no doubt misinterpret as racist even though it absolutely is not: what does nature do in order to preserve the best attributes and get rid of the ones not conducive to any positive effect? It phases out the non-positive...and brings forth the best or more fitting...true survival of the fittest. Since science has discovered that the "white" gene is in fact recessive what does that tell us about natures outlook towards it? Since nature rids itself of the harmful and or useless in order to preserve only the best it would be safe to say that the decline of the white gene through its' recessive nature, and the ever increasing number of non-whites, that people of color are the choice of natural selection. That is not to say that I think people of color would run the world any better than whites...but nature apparently thinks so. In time the only true race will finally be understood as being the human race with all it's color variations, no on variant having any credible reason to feel superior to any other. Although, and it irks me to say, there will inevitably be something that will cause strife and discord amongst people, be it religion, economic status structure or just plain old meanness. So, with that I would say that if we can learn something positive from todays racial strife that we would be able to apply what was learned to hopefully prevent other extreme "group" related divisive issues .

                  1. profile image0
                    ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Wow that's a complicated question , Perhaps nature will one day make us all darker , lighter or some naturally pleasant shade between and we will have equalized DNA pairs ,   But it would have to certainly make us all blind to not instantly judge the one standing next to us .  THAT is  about the only cure for being prejudiced  , not matter what your color .

                    Do I consider your question racist ? No just not really important .

                    1. Ivan Tod profile image61
                      Ivan Todposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      Well, it's not complicated at all, really. Nature eliminates that which is not conducive to survival. If it deems the white gene as non-conducive to said survival, which it has by making it recessive, then by default the world will at some point be devoid of the white race.

                      you say that;  "But it would have to certainly make us all blind to not instantly judge the one standing next to us .  THAT is  about the only cure for being prejudiced  , not matter what your color ."

                      That is an excellent observation, one of which I addressed with the statement of
                      if we can learn something positive from todays racial strife that we would be able to apply what was learned to hopefully prevent other extreme "group" related divisive issues in the future.Taking what we learn today in how we ultimately irradicate racism we can apply it to any judgmentalist issues later on as the cure for prejudice is in the mind not the eyes.

                      Any rational person would think that the removal, by nature, of an entire ethnic group, is very important, unless of course you don't believe or are unwilling to accept the science...kinda like those who don't believe in global warming. It's mid October and it reached 84 degrees here in New York today. I guess that's not too important either.

                      1. profile image0
                        ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        One , "Natural selection " will do whatever it does  without you or me deciding  any of that .  However to immediately determine one  as 'of racism'  because you disagree with the opine is  just as biased  or racist  as  determining a true  racist . wouldn't you think , like it or not that is fact . 

                        And two,
                        "Not talking about it "    ie. racism , isn't the same as  whether or not one recognizes the existence of racism , Here is one of my points  all along this thread ,  I'll try to explain it in layman's terms  for you because it seems too far above some peoples understanding ,  In my opinion  most of the rhetoric of racism today is of the  face-book mentality rather than  , a modern understanding of  the true forms of  racism of the PAST - compared to it's definition by popular belief  today .   The- re-introduction of supposed racism by the proponents of the Obama campaign and eventual administration      THAT is my point of contention between the introduced  F-B racism and pre- sixties classic racism  That which  makes the racism call  today , False flag racism .

                        For instance , when the media implies  a "systematic racism" , as it has dozens of times , because of police shootings and the public distaste for police shootings of civilians  ,  then this  is  true racism ?  and then when statistics and the internal investigations prove that wrong  .      Isn't that then racist , or reverse racism , or at least bias ?

                        When our president jumps in at such media imposed false rhetoric FB racism , about police shootings and says they are " too  common place and police procedure has to change "    and then implies  systematic racism ,  without the investigations even being complete , isn't that then the same bias as racism ?

                        I DO believe that the discussion of media bias ,  racism , reverse racism ," F-B racism ", systematic racism  and their  existence or not ,  is far to deep for many people here  . Especially given the apparent inability of many here NOT to understand it's present day origins and social media manipulations .

                        Because I say THAT or refuse to except the popular  F-B definition ,  doesn't make me the racist . But it may very well make you or many here biased . and so racists yourselves ?

                        Calling out  something that ISN"T-- is just as bad as what you're calling out .  Many , many  here need to consider and ponder  that fact alone .  The O.P. has asked a serious question , and it requires far more than the apparent shallowness of many minds here today .

        2. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          This article addresses what I alluded to in the changing balance of the population.  For some reason there are groups of Hispanic (not all) and groups of Black (not all) people who hate each others' ethnic group.  I don't understand it.

          Hispanics are fast becoming the most populous group.  How will that affect race relations?

          L.A. Gang Firebombed Black Neighbors to Get Them ‘Out of the Neighborhood’

          http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 … SAMedition 

          The Latino Big Hazard gang wanted to keep black people out of its public housing complex—and threw Molotov cocktails into four apartments to do it, prosecutors allege.

        3. HoneyBB profile image59
          HoneyBBposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I don't think a person's skin color makes any more difference than the color of their eyes or the color of their underwear. In my eyes, God is our father and he gave us earthly families so we could hopefully understand the importance of that and the importance of all of us being brothers and sisters. I think that it's important to recognize if someone is being mistreated for any reason including race and those issues should be worked out but I think that we are all pretty much on equal ground now with a very minimal number or people being mistreated because of racial differences; therefore, I think it's time we start putting more emphasis on what makes us all the same and stop putting so much emphasis on things that make us difference. Sometimes the emphasis gets so strong that I think it causes racial tension and biases for some people. Here's a couple things that I don't quite understand: why was it important to be called African American instead of black? If I went by that same set up I'd have to be called Irish, English, French-Canadian American. I have nieces and nephews who are half black and half white and I think they'd feel more comfortable being described as black. Another thing that confuses me is that after all it took to get people used to saying African American now people are reverting back to Black as in Black Lives Matters. I think a person heritage should be important to them for their own family background. I found it very interesting to learn about my ancestors. My Great Great Grampa was one of two white men lynched for being an outspoken Abolistionist. I'm glad that he cared about people and stood up for them and he didn't feel that he was better because of his skin color. I don't know much about my Irish ancestry. They may have been slaves too but that makes no difference to who I am and who I can become.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Hi HoneyBB,  Thank you for joining!

            What Black people are called is a product of the times.  I've been through "colored, Negro, Black, Afro American and African American."  I didn't have a choice about any of it.  I don't know who decides.  The decider is at a high enough level that the government adheres to it, uses it on censuses and other government documents.

            The problem with racism is that people, who say they are not bigoted, take it personally.  As far as they are concerned, if they aren't bigoted, then there is no bigotry.  That is the great lie!!!  If they don't have cancer, then there is no cancer.  There is a lot of evil in this world.  Is everyone evil?  No!  Does everyone do evil things from time to time?  Probably

            I have presented many instances of bigotry/racism on this forum.  Most times, people don't address them.  They change the discussion.  If we can't deal with issues where they are, there will be no productive discussion.

            I am not hositle to white people; however, I'd be a fool to say Black people are not hostile to white people.  I have heard Black individuals say hostile and horrible things about white people.  Did I agree?  No!  Depending on my relationship with people, I am able to counter sometimes.

            Productive discussion has to deal with the world beyond me and how i am.  Not everyone thinks alike.

            BTW, we get pretty blunt here for productive discussion.  Some have come and gone.  I appreciate those who disagree and stay.  As long as we are communicating, it is productive.  We actually reveal more about ourselves than others ... I think.

        4. AF Mind profile image52
          AF Mindposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          In no way should the history be forgotten. She has every right to express that. I think it is because people are afraid of challenging what they believe and don't like the finger pointed at them. Like when Black Wall Street or slavery is brought up, a majority of white people tend to lash out and condemn the ones who bring it up. But we need to talk about history. That's how we learn from our mistakes.

          1. Ivan Tod profile image61
            Ivan Todposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I would agree. The problem is that even though we may learn from our mistakes we have the uncanny predisposition of not utilizing that which was learned. Maybe that'll change someday.

          2. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Thank you for your input AF!  Welcome!

        5. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          ahorse, thank you for the kind comments!

        6. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Kentucky fire chief refuse to help n*gg*rz????  Bigotry?  Racism?  His first admendment right?


          Kentucky fire chief refuses to help black family after traffic accident: “We ain’t taking no n–gers here”

          http://www.salon.com/2014/11/20/kentuck … gers_here/


          “We ain’t taking no n–gers here,” Hatfield responded, laughing.

          The footage also reveals the fire chief helping the other man involved in the traffic incident, Loren Dicken, who is white. According to WDRB, after Hatfield went out of his way to assist Dicken with a tire issue, the chief also had his firefighters pick the man up from the hospital when he was released.

          1. profile image0
            ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            These men refusing  to help , they e should be not only fired but thrown  into  a cell !

            1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
              wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              But that won't happen because that type of behavior has been acceptable in this country for 250 years; especially in Billy Bob Land of rural Kentucky. But according to your past commentary, racism no longer exists in the United States. Would you like your crow rare, medium rare, or well done?

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I posts these because people who do not do such things find it unbelievable that someone would.  Many have not learned how to use social media and say stuff that makes them lose their jobs.

                This guys had to have been in an environment where people knew he acted like this.  He was so comfortable that he said it to the wrong person.

                1. profile image0
                  ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  We are raised to believe that "good " people rule humanity  and  that "bad " people hide in the shadows of their own bitter hatred and  disgusting behavior  , and given THAT ALONE , reality dictates that idiots like this bigot  will  always be recognized wherever they go !

                  Let's face it if social media or any media does its originally intended job - This fool will never work again and die of drowning  under a bridge somewhere , in his own hatred!

              2. profile image0
                ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Only an idiot would  say  racism DOESN"T exist in individual incidents  and   just like the ego-centric elitism of many of your  liberal  lies,  they too must be eliminated from our culture .    But what doesn't exist , except in the minds of  pseudo-intellectual liberals , IS THE EPIDEMNIC of racism that you and those like you spout  forth with.

                But lets face it , .....your dialog does promote the falsehood of the racism cause and effect right into media generated reality by the constancy and the volume of your rhetoric.   One  volunteer rescue fireman in red -neck co. Kentucky ,  one rogue cop in  South Miami Florida ,  a  motor vehicle employee in Denver Co. , among  thousands and thousands of employees  DOES NOT constitute systematic racism , ........just like  a violence  spreading socialist professor  visiting  the white house a few hundred  times  doesn't mean a president is  a socialism activist ?





                .

                1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                  wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13210627.jpg

                  If racism doesn't  exist , how do you account for the progeny of squatters and thieves still claiming this land as "theirs"? In a court of law, knowingly receiving stolen goods and property is also a crime; especially if a murder occurred while the crime was being committed. But the Americans created the concept of Manifest Destiny in order to hide behind the pretense that all of the raping, all of the stealing, and the genocide of over 100 million of my people  was "God's will".

                  Now I will take you to school: The primary component of  racism is not hate, but an unfounded and exaggerated  sense of superiority. An evil nation does not hate the descendants of those who they robbed and butchered.  They simply feel in their special arrogant way that we should be grateful they did not kill us all. Neither does an evil nation hate the descendants of the African slaves. Why would they hate the people who made America rich while their beloved forefathers  went to church, went fishing,and enjoyed the attention of their captive mistresses?  No, they do not hate them at all. They simply want them to act like they are sitting in the back of the bus, even when they are sitting in the front. No, it is not hate, but a false sense of superiority and entitlement that allows the Americans to feel comfortable with their ill-gotten wealth and standard of living. Consequently, it really doesn't matter how you  "feel" about racism or minorities. What matters is that you are still here. Do you understand?

            2. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              This is true!  It's like he is from Medieval times.

        7. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Fifth Harmony has to be the most talented a cappella group in the world.  They are all talented and intelligent.  There is a "problem" with one of them.  Why?

          Fifth Harmony’s Normani Kordei takes break from Twitter over horrific racist cyberbullying

          http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainmen … -1.2742821
          http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13250433_f1024.jpg

          1. Say Yes To Life profile image82
            Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Several years back, there was a case in Martinez CA where a black man was being harassed by several coworkers.  They were leaving nooses at his station.  Past a certain point, he snapped and went postal.  He shot and killed seven coworkers, then turned the gun on himself.  He called 911 right before doing it and explained the situation; by the time they got there, it was too late.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              "were leaving" sounds like a continuous threat.  What did the employer do?

            2. Say Yes To Life profile image82
              Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I heard about it over the news; they didn't say.  My guess is the company did nothing.  According to my experience, the San Francisco Bay area rarely takes bullying seriously.  Then they wonder why things like this happen.

        8. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Attempted high school lynching?

          High School Student Disciplined in Miss. Noose Incident

          http://www.theroot.com/articles/news/20 … -incident/ 

          Stone High football coach John Feaster says he has kicked the student off the team and that the victim has been handling the noose incident as well as he can.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Hate crime against white man.  I'm looking up reverse cases for fairness

            Police Chief Pushes For Hate Crime Charges in Black Mob Beating of White Man
            Reversal prompted by "public outrage"

            http://www.infowars.com/police-chief-pu … white-man/

            After initially backing away from reports that the July 4 beating of a white man by a black mob was racially motivated, Cincinnati Police Chief Jeffrey Blackwell is now pushing for hate crime charges to be filed.

          2. Say Yes To Life profile image82
            Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Both these attacks are  racially motivated hate crimes, and should be treated as such.  Minimizing what happened in Cincinnati will serve to incite more animosity of whites against blacks, leading to more of the types of the incident that happened in Mississippi.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Trump supporter has two blacks hanging from tree next to Trump sign.  Why?  It's Halloween.


              http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13257713.jpg

              1. Say Yes To Life profile image82
                Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                How's this one???

                http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13258026_f248.jpg

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  This is the craziest election ever.  My girl, Tera Setamayer, is endorsing Evan mcMullin.  Ana Navarro is another of my favorites.  It will be interesting to see what she does.

                  People are now putting Trumpsters on Twitter saying racist stuff like JEW-U-A instead of USA?  Go figure?

        9. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Are all policeman good policeman?  What about an officer that gives a homeless person a feces sandwich?

          San Antonio Police officer fired for allegedly giving fecal sandwich to homeless person

          SAN ANTONIO — SAN ANTONIO – A San Antonio police officer is fired after bragging to his partner he gave a homeless person a feces sandwich.

          The department identifies the officer as Matthew Luckhurst, who had been on the force five years.





          In an exclusive interview, SAPD Chief William McManus disavowed the officer’s alleged behavior.

          "It's a disgrace to the department. It's a disgrace to the badge,” he said. “It’s an attack on dignity, human dignity.”

          The alleged incident happened back in May.

          "The officer's accused of putting feces on bread, putting it in a Styrofoam carryout container and putting it next to a homeless person,” Chief McManus said.

          The Chief says the officer told his bike patrol partner what he had done, and the partner told him to take back the feces sandwich.

          "So he supposedly walked back or rode back, took the container and threw it in the trash can,” Chief McManus said.

          The story circulated through the department, triggering an internal affairs investigation in July. Last week, Chief McManus fired Luckhurst.

          "He said it was a practical joke,” the Chief described how Luckhurst characterized what happened.

          Luckhurst has hired a private attorney, Ben Sifuentes. Sifuentes declined an on-camera interview, but spoke with us over the phone.

          “The Chief’s allegations are not true,” Sifuentes said.

          Sifuentes says his client was joking with other officers and that there were no witnesses to the alleged incident. Luckhurst is appealing his termination, a process that could take six to nine months.

          Investigators haven’t been able to find the homeless man who allegedly received the feces sandwich.





          In recent years, SAPD’s worked to soften its approach with homeless people and get them back on their feet.

          "We've taken 50 steps forward as far as our dealings with the homeless goes and this puts us 100 steps backwards - the act of one particular officer,” Chief McManus said.

          Major Ivy Taylor released the following statement concerning the alleged incident: “Firing this officer was the right thing to do. His actions were a betrayal of every value we have in our community, and he is not representative of our great police force."


          http://katv.com/news/nation-world/san-a … ess-person

        10. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          The blue includes many Black men and women who risk their lives everyday for the community. 

          This deceased officer was a colleague of my cousin, Heath Nelson, who is also an outstanding, selfless defender of citizens.

          09/12 - ON THIS DAY - Corporal Mark Wesley Carthron #11

          Take time to remember Corporal Mark Wesley Carthron, who was killed in the line of duty on this date in 2005, at the age of 31. Corporal Mark Carthron was struck and killed while retrieving stop sticks he had deployed during a vehicle pursuit on I-40 in Crittenden County.

          The suspect's vehicle struck the stop sticks, bringing it to a halt. As Corporal Carthron retrieved the strips, he was struck by a state police vehicle that was involved in the pursuit. Corporal Carthron was transported to a hospital in Memphis, Tennessee, where he succumbed to his injuries at 12:31 am the following morning.

          The two suspects involved in the pursuit were driving a stolen vehicle and were wanted for an armed robbery of a service station. The driver of the stolen vehicle was convicted of capital murder and sentenced to life in prison. The passenger was convicted of robbery and theft charges and sentenced to 30 years.

          Corporal Carthron had served with the Arkansas State Police for 8 years.

          A HERO REMEMBERED NEVER DIES!!
          http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13265830.jpg

        11. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Kind-hearted cop buys a car seat for struggling father’s 3-year-old daughter

          http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa … -1.2615287

          There are good officers.  We, my family and friends, post good officer stories often.  I want officers in my family to feel the love and support.

          What is wrong with having a) community policing and b) officer training.  Teachers must have training once a month.

          Through training we learn specific needs of the target group that we work with.  We learn what the latest gang paraphenalia, tattoos and attire are.  It helps us to be more aware of things that require that we take additional measures and notify administration or child protective services if we need to do so.

          Why are people complaning about on the job training?

          1. profile image0
            ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            If there were "bean counters " for only positive posts  how many positive posts would there be in this thread ?

            Just asking .

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              You can help me ahorse!  Come on.  Get the lead out!

            2. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Ah!  So you are not going to answer the question.

        12. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          ahorse, I stated this badly several weeks ago.  This morning Danielle Allen, prominent historian, and Fareed Zakaria noted that the US population is balancing out to the point that there will not be a "majority" group.  How will co-exist proceed?

          Do you remember me addressing that, evidently pretty badly?  Given the trend, I can see the majority of people not wanting to emphasize certain holidays.  They may want to add some of their own.  Policy may change.  I can't thing of one right now; however, given time, I can come up with something.  Will there be fractured groups who are frustrating by not feeling valued?

          1. profile image0
            ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            More than the diversity that America has always been and is today ?   What's the addition of a few new holidays between friends ?   How about  MS -13  Friday ,  or  maybe  ISIS Fiesta Day,  or maybe  we could do a   Sharia Court Sunday ? All paid holidays of course .

            Seriously ,he problem has never been the additional ethnicities coming to America - but the impending De- Americanization of  our overall basic culture.   In other words  when people leave "over there " to come "over here " for the freedoms of "here "  then they do not assimilate to " Here " but bring" there to  here "- Then what happens is ---"Here" becomes" There ".

            Sharia Law is the perfect example of that -  The Muslim Brotherhood and similar names   are suing for that now .!

            If that doesn't bother you , it should.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Today I saw a makeup commercial with a beautiful Muslim lady wearing a hijab and "makeup."  I thought they are supposed to cover their faces.  I can see this becoming very dangerous for some Muslim women.

              I think "communities" might create a problem from the standpoint of one community exalted itself over another (almost like gangs).  You can't date someone from a particular community because .... - not good.

              My neighborhood is multiethnic and I like it that way.  We all get along and people wave at each other as we leave and return home.  My church is multiethnic also.

              1. profile image0
                ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I live in very rural New England , the same thing exists in the small cities and  towns all around here ,   skin colors ,  costumes , head gear , political diversity ,  ethnic diversity    Yet ,  so many think America's right is bigoted , biased ,  bully-ish   and that is so unfair  !   

                Stop believing the media ,   That would be a great beginning for all of us .

                And although the diversion of this election is over this conversation should go on forever .

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  ahorse, I am really concerned that some Muslim(s) man will get upset about the Americanization of Muslim women.  The women are really beautiful and I really feel badly for them when it is 100+ degrees outside and they have to cover up.

                  About a month ago, a guy killed his sister.  I don't know if you remember that or not.  It was in a Middle Eastern country.  It could just as easily happen here.

                  Maybe I am a pollyanna but I really wish we could all live together, participate in America and care about each other.

                  1. profile image0
                    ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Diane , Honor killings , rapes , beatings , private incarcerations are happening right here in America , the media just isn't reporting it ,  This hypocrisy of gender control , violence and  exploitation is  absolutely  horrific.   They ARE  a truly beautiful women -  and should be protected as such.         Why is it that we all cannot focus  on this immediately ?      The middle east is living in the eleventh century as to cultural- religious  maturity ,   and trying to devolve our maturity   in order to   assimilate US to THEM?   

                    Can we not just move forward as one race , as one people ?.

                    Our discussion will go on ! Congratulations on 1,850  comments here , YOU are winning !

                    1. dianetrotter profile image62
                      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      I think, even though it gets difficult, our success is because we all reallyl want to be heard and to listen to others.  Thank you ahorse!

                      Expressing anger or hurt is not nonproductive unless we are not willing to hear the same from others.  It was very enlightening to hear about the rust belt and group of disenfranchised people who feel they have not been heard.

                      It would be wonderful if these conversations could be held in small groups all over the US.

                      1. profile image0
                        ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        Diane ,  Even creating  a national holiday for that very purpose shouldn't be out of the question :

                        National Communication Day ?
                        Human Relations Day ?
                        American Ethnic Celebration Day ?

                        It will be the good people of America who do it though , not the government ,  Blessings !

        13. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Rhetorical questions just running through my head.  No need to respond.

          1.  Was Donald Trump a Democrat bamboozling Republicans into thinking he was one of them?
          2.  Did Obama easily explain that Afforadable Healthcare Act is a good program that requires tweaking?
          3.  Did Trump include Bannon as his strategist to please the fringe right - balancing power between Bannon and Priebus?
          4.  Has anyone noticed how reasonable Trump appears these days?  Was Ben Carson right when he said Trump is different in a private setting?  The rallies were just reality TV.
          6.  What is going to make America great again?
          7.  Protestors baffle me.  Why are non-voters and Clinton voters protesting together?

          Does any of it impact racial interactions which are reeeeally complicated now and include social interactions as well?  (Black, Hispanic, Muslim, Asian, LGBTQ, abortion, electoral college)

          Trump has his work cut out for him.

          1. profile image0
            ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Diane , I fear for the falsity  of leftist  applied the importance the to discussion of race relations   and how it will fall through their own  political cracks now .   I believe that when people speak  so loudly during an election that it is one  of two reasons ,  one,  just an opportunity for political discourse and politic capital , proven in US. history. ---or two a truly important  issue.

            What the alt-left did with race relations is to exploit it for political capital - fact .   What the middle America did was watch as that issue became six o'clock media  riot ,  By now , most people are finally grasping the fact that the media was extremely biased to this very same alt- left .   After these riots die down AND  the rioters go back to figuring out why they are failing their  mid- terms , after a president-elect  takes his first holiday and the Clintons retire to Cape Cod , what happens to our collective  conscience ? 

            What happens to the incredible poverty of blacks in the inner cities , or in Appalachia , or in rural Texas?  What becomes of this  Non- issue to the DNC or  the alt-left , do you believe they really cared other than for votes enough to  continue the importance of this political  attention ?   When does the  black America   re-evaluate it's allegiance to the  left ?   To believe that  the political  left is always the eye's and ears of blacks in politics and in America ?   

            I suggest that THAT is all the black vote meant to THIS election on the left ?   

            Keep it alive Diane .

            1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
              wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13120150.jpg

              It is quite remarkable that you conveniently gloss over the fact that Donald Trump did more to damage race relations in this country in just a few months than Obama did in an entire eight years! In spite of the fact that Obama has falsely been accused of playing the race card, no one can deny that he never threatened to deport all of the white people whose forefathers came here illegally and committed crimes against humanity. In fact, he never threatened any particular racial or ethnic group.You should thank God that I am not President. Trust and believe that I would not hesitate to balance the scales.

              1. profile image0
                ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Having an election hang-over  is hell ?   I suggest Irish coffee ",top-a- the mo[u]rning."
                Fact , as Trump has ultimately promised , there will come a wall that illegals  will merely have to climb a little higher to get over , while Legal immigrants will continue as if  nothing at all has  happened !
                Fact , someone  like yourself would have to mature mentally before you could be elected  president.
                Fact , race relations were heavily and negatively exploited by this administration  and by Hilary  ;  the people themselves decided she didn't take racism alone seriously at all ! That's your bad.
                Fact, Trump will accomplish more for race relations  in reality than ten of either Hilary or Obama.
                Fact, Not one illegal will be deported that hasn't brushed heavily with the law . Watch !
                Fact, a lot of trumps promises will not come to fruition .
                Fact, more knowledgeable ethnicities probably voted for Trump than against him

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  ahorse, I agree that not many of Trump's ideas will be fulfilled.  He modified thinking on Affordable Health Care.  This morning Ryan didn't say "get rid of it."  He talked about the problems created by it and that something needs to be done to fix it.

                  It seems apparent that at the same time they get rid of Obamacare, they will have to replace it with something.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                    Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Trump really dose not know what is doing any more than other professional liar's.

                    It seem he is making some adjustments to Obama care. Then many other things he can't change because it's impossible to change like gays, race and other religions. Trump fear of Muslims is a huge super Islamophobia threat causing 23℅ of the World's population a deep concern when threatens by nukes. No non white or non Christians group in America voted for Trump. Since the vast majority of the world's population would not vote for Trump because of their race and religion.
                    Look forward for America to pay for hell on earth in the future. Majority will win even if America is not a true democracy.

                    1. dianetrotter profile image62
                      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      I know he is a liar.  He may also be finding out that it is easier to complain about the president than it is to be president.  I said the same thing when Obama was taking office.

                      It's like, "Everything will be better when you do it my way!"  That's ego and naivete.

                      1. Credence2 profile image82
                        Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        I can only hope that the adage ' to be King means to see new ways' would apply to him, otherwise there is no hope.

                    2. profile image0
                      ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      One day you , like all of the alt -left , will have to  evolve to new  rants , the election rants don't work anymore,   race baiting , sexist , all the rest .......... Lets get on to building a country from the Obama ruins !

                      1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                        Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        Without building your best natural resources people. You will continues importing most of your food and products than export. Another thing America is number 1 at,  is importing.

              2. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                The race baiting thing slays me.  I started with "How is Michelle Obama race baiting?"  Same about Obama...what specifically did he do that was considered race baiting?

                He said, "That could have been my son!"  Many parents think about that when something happens to a child that is similar to theirs.  Trayvon did look like he could have been Obama's son.

                1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                  wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13110968.jpg

                  Exactly Diane! Not one of the naysayers who accuse Obama of racism can name any significant comment or policy that supports such a claim. The fact is, many white Americans didn't like Obama simply because of the color of his skin. I have also heard ad nauseam the false notion that the election of Obama proves that racism  no longer exist's in America. But the fact that Trump was elected and is supported by many white supremacist hate groups clearly contradicts that ridiculous notion.

                  My opinion is that neither Obama or Trump were elected "by the people". In fact I believe that "all" U.S. Presidents, at least since Woodrow Wilson, have been elected by a shadow government. Consequently, they only represent the current face of the puppet masters who control them. My theory is supported by the fact that the first black President has been followed by the first openly racist, sexist, and under qualified white supremacist. It reads like a Hollywood script, and I think that the ruling elite are enjoying the spectacle of "divide and conquer". The very rich win in every Presidential election, and just like with Obama, Trump won't make a move without the approval of the "main office". If they would have told Obama to build a wall then a wall would have been built. But that wouldn't have fit the script as well. And it  may have even ingratiated many racist white Americans, or at least those on the fence, to Obama, and softened their attitude toward blacks in general.

                  If I Were an Ant, a Cockroach, or a Slithering Snake

                  If I were an evil Euro-Puppet Master pulling the strings, I would direct Donald to clean up the inner cities and reduce the crime rate.  At the same time I would lower even further the glass ceiling for minority owned businesses. This would certainly confound the masses and create an even greater division. It would help to illustrate and promote the fiction that the white man is benevolent toward minorities, and makes the superior leader. At the same time it would prevent minorities from gaining any economic parity, or real power. In effect, such a tactic would be the same as a slave-master cutting back on torture and cruelty, and improving living conditions, while making the shackles and chains of servitude even harder to break. Of course, the simple minded racist Billy Bob's would jump up and say, "See! Donald Trump did more for the inner city blacks than Obama!" They would proudly trot out their  statistics to back up their claims. And of course, there would be people of color who would also agree. But neither group would notice the glass ceiling being lowered even further on black businesses. As a result, the false racist narrative that Asians  can immigrate and be successful, yet a majority of blacks have no motivation or business acumen, would continue and be magnified. Thus, white supremacy would be maintained and reinforced.

            2. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              ahorse, it appears that jobs and small businesses and their success/failure is the bottom line.  When people have income that is sufficient to support their families and provide a little excess, morale will improve.

              Small business success will depend on the ability to pay fair wages and provide health insurance. 

              Bringing jobs back to America should not be expected to be the exact jobs we did back in the 20th century.  I was a systems auditor for Hughes Aircraft, a defense contractor.  The prevailing attitude was "we are a non-profit so it doesn't matter whether we make money or not."  That was totally ridiculous though I didn't voice it.  It was way above my pay grade.  My director was a retired captain in the army.  His objective was to raise his rank in the company by bringing systems under his control.  He went from section head to manager to assistant director to director.  That was the tipping point.  Our department drew attention and them came the mass layoffs and budget cuts.

              New jobs and businesses will have to use social media, advanced technology and "out of the box" thinking in order to be successful.  That means a) becoming educated and b) hiring the best, i.e. Silicon Valley.  Workers expecting to work on assembly lines like they did back in the day is foolish.  People must start educating themselves NOW!

        14. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Bigotry is still alive, cruel and denigrating.  Reference to "ape in heels" in the White House

          In the wake of Donald Trump’s surprise win, Pamela Ramsey Taylor, the director of the Clay County Development Corp., took to Facebook to express her delight with getting rid of the “ape in heels” in the White House, an apparent reference to first lady Michelle Obama.

          http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/201 … ce=copyurl

          1. Castlepaloma profile image75
            Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            :Ape in heels: That is part true because every race on earth has the black DNA blood within their bodies. Where not one other race can claim that scientific fact. Human are 99% biological the same as monkeys and apes. I must be an part artist Ape, once as a child I told a black girl we are all part Ape. She slapped me so hard I saw stars and it hurt for a week. Oh! Thank goodness we are on the internet.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              No problem.  You believe in evolution.  I believe in creationism.  I was wonderfully made in the image of God.  Guess what....U 2!

              It may be based on evolution; however, I've only know this type of commentary as it relates to Black people.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I'm Spiritual rather than Religious meaning 99% of this planet is 99% unknown to each and everyone of us . Even evolution crosses over to more people than any one Religion dose .

                It would be arrogant or not
                to be acknowledge able enough to claim either side is right or if any human can. Creationism earth began over 6000 years ago. That would cancell out the vast majority of well documented civilizations.

                The fairytales of religion and politics is beyond my understanding and visions of coming true. Only the ultimate love of a loving couple fairytales, I have faith in coming becoming true.

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  The whole basis of Christianity is faith.  It makes way more sense to me that people evolving.  There are some strange looking people in this world but I haven't seen a fish ape or an ape human.

                  It is so interesting how people believe what they believe.  I'm not pointing anyone out.  I mean everyone of us believes something.  We all can't be right.

                  I believe love trumps all and leads to a productive discussion and eternal life.

                  I'm not mad because you are an evolutionist.  I hope you are not mad because I am a Christians.  The good thing is that we are in countries where we can all express what we believe.

              2. profile image0
                ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                This comment was disgusting , and from an intellectual too  , Right ?.........but we  do  not get to associate these  people and this  rhetoric born  somewhere in the human sewer , with the Trump president elect  !   That just doesn't add up .    Personally , I see just as much bias and pigeonholing of people  as a tactic of the left as I do from the right . Is prejudiced and bias  inherently from the lowly born ignorant  redneck then ? Nope ,apparently not , and that is where I came from .   

                Just Why is it that prejudiced seems just as prevalent , perhaps probably  more so  from the halls of the ivory towers ,  as it would seem to be from the level of main street.? The evil of the human heart in America   knows no  intellectual , income or  ideological boundaries .

                We must all walk away from such ignorance.   I once knew a man who , when told a colorful joke about women , sex , race , etc..........would simply stare blankly at you ,  turn and walk away .   That guy had  a heart .

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I totally agree that all bigotry does not come from White people.  I don't think it has much to do with wealth. 

                  I miss my classes soo much.  We talked about bigotry and hatefulness. There were gang and racial confrontations all the time.  I remember reading an article about a 3 year old getting killed because he had red hair.  Many people have a need to try to elevate themselves by putting others down.

                  I was really proud of my husband last month. He usual refers to the neighbors next door as "the Mexicans."  He knows it irritates me.  Last month the neighbor's dog was lose and came into our garage.  After he walked out I let the garage door down and told my husband I would call the neighbors.  He said, "No, I'll handle it."  In my mind, I said, "Oh ish!"  To my surprise, my husband knew the names of the husband, wife, son and even the dog, Nacho!  The surprise was that he had been having friendly exchanges with them.

        15. Say Yes To Life profile image82
          Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          JUST WANTED TO GET BACK TO THE BASICS:

          I keep coming across evidence that white against black racism isn't nearly as bad as it was 60 plus years ago.  What does exist is mainly caused by the astronomical crime rate in most African American communities.  That is why we're getting all these paranoid shootings of unarmed black men by white cops.  Whites are sick and tired of hearing about racism when blacks have made such great strides.  36% of blacks are middle class.  The wealthiest woman in the US is black.  So crime rates and illegitimacy have soared - who's fault is that???  Also, can you really fault the whites for fearing blacks???

          1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
            wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13271165.jpg

            You should read more. I suggest the Library of Congress Online would be a good place to start. During the antebellum the average white racist was sick and tired of hearing the abolitionists bemoan the institution of slavery.And many of the arguments in favor of evil were similar to what we hear today concerning the issue of racism.  And that is when black people were literally walking around in chains!

            I have never  witnessed a black person who had so many negative things to say about their own race.  And I grew up around black people, and have been involved in Civil Rights Activism since I was a child. However, it is not uncommon for an individual to adopt a persona online with the purpose of denigrating the race or organization that they claim to represent.

          2. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
            Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            +1

          3. Say Yes To Life profile image82
            Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            RW - I won't tell you my full story, because it is no fit to print on the web.  I will reveal this much:. From ages 8 - 12, I was forced to deal with continuous physical and mental abuse, and sexual molestation, all from blacks.  When I got a black eye in the seventh grade, a white counselor saw fit to intervene.  It was after that I was sent to a Christian school.

            Slavery is no excuse for the way my highly immoral and dysfunctional family behaved.  Even our social worker got disgusted.  I HAVE been doing a lot of reading.  On sites where white people are free to speak their minds without being politically correct, they're saying if blacks don't like the way things are here, they can go back to Africa.  Excellent point - especially seeing how corrupt the governments are there!

            I am currently experiencing PTSD, and because of political correctness, have no one to discuss these issues with.  Perhaps I should not allow this to bleed into the web, but I doubt I'm the only one experiencing this.  I understand author Alice Walker has gone through similar situations.

            1. Credence2 profile image82
              Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Don't mean to be insensitive, but don't you ever stop? Just because there is one wealthy black woman does not mean that racism has gone away. I have had more than my share of trouble from whites over a lifetime, but I don't go around blaming every white person for them.

              We're not going anywhere but will continue to fight as we always had to make this society the way it should be. I don't care what such whites say, who rather dismiss the problem rather than figure out how to make it better for all. The demographics  will tell the tale over the coming decades. If there is one thing that is true, current circumstances will not remain static. So where will the inevitable future find you?

              I am sorry about your PTSD, but you surely are not blaming that on blacks, as well.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                racism will not go away by exaggerating it, by pinpointing it. By acting like it is impossible to eradicate it. It will take one black person at time to get over his self-doubt, his insecurity, his lack of hope, his fear, his tendency to blame others, his inability to achieve what he wants. It will take one white person at a time to get over his self-doubt, his insecurity, his lack of hope, his fear, his tendency to blame others, his inability to achieve what he wants. It will take one Asian person, one Eastern European person, one alien, one human at a time to REACH his POTENTIAL and overcome the downward pull of his human (or alien) nature.

                1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                  Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  You know a real alien, I hope it is not one of those assume illegal ones. Lol.

            2. Castlepaloma profile image75
              Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I had a very abusive alcohol father growing up.

              I got sexual molested at age 13 on a swim trip by a gay man. Because gay sex was a criminal offence then and it was said to be a mentally illness. I was almost suicidal, yet escape into sports. Then discovered that I was my own best doctor in the world, most important person and loved myself first.

              Found out I did not have the gay desire and it was not my fault.  Even though there is nothing wrong with gay sex, except I was under age.

              I have heard you say this sexual pass before. It was not your fault, your happiness will depend alot on the things you must forget. Forgive the people that harmed you because it will damage you more than it will damage them.

              You are no better or no worst than anyone else including white people. Let greedy white people choke on their money, because money has the least to do with happiness.

              Find that one thing, your happiness.
              Love from castle without the hassle.

              1. Say Yes To Life profile image82
                Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Castlepaloma - I am truly sorry for your horrific experience!  Of course it's not the victim's fault; why would ANYONE ask for something like that, especially a child?! 

                I need to point out that forgiveness is a greatly misunderstood concept.  Someday, I will write a hub about an experience I had regarding forgiveness.  It is about my best friend who wound up taking advantage of me and treating me like a fool - but that's another subject.

                American society as we know it was established by bullying, and silencing victims by blaming them.  We are now in the process of healing; as a result, we are one of the greatest societies on Earth.  Healing involves acknowledging what we did wrong, and making amends where it's called for.  It also includes properly admitting and venting our frustrations, in a healthy way.

                Europeans are excellent at spotting opportunities and making the most of them (examples; the large deposits of gold and diamonds in Africa and the Americas).  Nothing is wrong in using those opportunities; however, they should have shared fairly with the natives instead of exploiting them.  As for the Africans who fell victim to the slave trade, they need to realize the Europeans did not do that by themselves.  Africans need to recognize their role in the matter.  They also need to confront the fact that their countries tend to have corrupt governments, which is why 75% of the poorest nations in the world are in Africa.  Even Haiti, which overthrew slavery nearly 60 years before the US and is 90% black, is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere.

                P.S.  My parents are from Haiti!

                1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                  Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Been to Haiti, if UN and American were true humanitarian they would helping these poorest areas not helping themselves to the oil in Muslims countries.

                  If it always better to be open about these taboos topics rather than hiding them into secret society. It is best to start within your own circle than expand. Looks like your ready.

                2. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                  wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13284449.jpg

                  You are confusing apples with oranges. I knew a woman who told me some years ago that she was adopted as an infant. She revealed that from the age of 3 years old to the age of 16 she was raped and molested by 2 of her uncles who were grown men from the get-go. The victim and the perpetrators were all white. In fact, rape is more prevalent among whites. And all of the so-called "colored people" or light skinned blacks are a direct result of slaves, and later freed black women being raped with impunity by whites. If blacks want to compete with whites in the arena of rape and sexual abuse, then they have over 400 years of catching up to do.

                  Yes, this abuse lasted non-stop for over 400 years! Yet, you suggest that whites have a reason to fear blacks! Sorry, but it's just the opposite. Anyone who knows the truth understands that when we look at yesterday, today, and then contemplate tomorrow, it is the black man who has more to fear from the white man, as the white man's capacity for evil has already been proven through 500 years of slavery,  genocide, and Jim Crow. Furthermore, over ten thousand black people have never congregated in one place to watch a young white man or teenager being tortured,burned, and lynched. But during Jim Crow,  more than ten thousand whites came together on several occasions to "enjoy" the sadistic spectacle of the public torture and murder of black people.

                  And that's not counting hundreds of lynching's that took place in more intimate settings of just a few, or several hundred white psychopaths. It is a testament to the patience and the forgiving nature of the black race in America that they have yet to go full "Nat Turner" on their oppressors, as was the case in Haiti; a country which has been punished economically by the Europeans ever since daring to defy white supremacy. And just recently the Clinton Foundation stole 2 billion dollars from the Haitian Relief Fund. https://geopolitics.co/2016/10/11/haiti … ief-funds/

                  Concerning your comments about Africa: I suppose it didn't cross your mind that the problems in Africa today are a direct result of hundreds of years of Colonialism. And the current destabilization of Libya is a direct result of U.S. Imperialism. Even Hillary Clinton admitted it was a mistake. There have been great civilizations in Africa. One of the most notable is Egypt. And  yes, in spite of the Eurocentric denial of Black Supremacy, there is much evidence that suggests that a great many ancient Egyptians were Black. One needs only look at an image of the great Sphinx and they can see that the face of the Sphinx  has the features of a black man or woman. Egypt was for thousands of years one of the greatest civilizations in the world. It is no wonder that racists continue to deny the obvious.

                  And just as we have witnessed the results of miscegenation in this country that have occurred over just 500 years, it is not surprising that over several thousand years the mixing between the darker and lighter skinned Africans, and Middle Eastern people, would produce what we see today. And the Sphinx is very telling. Look at all of the monuments erected here to honor Colonialism. Most of them have European features. And you don't see any Black or Indigenous faces at Mt. Rushmore. Most of the monuments here depict images of the ruling race. And this can be seen all over the world. A monument as grand, as costly, and as difficult to erect as the Great Sphinx would not wear a black face unless those who ruled the land at that time were also black and members of a majority.

                  http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13284450.jpg

                3. Say Yes To Life profile image82
                  Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  WR - I am fully aware Egyptians are black.  I had an Egyptian coworker once, and anyone who has seen a map of Africa should be aware of where Egypt is located. 

                  What you say about rape does not surprise me.  I've read from several sources that While the vast majority of rapes occur within the same race, this is not the case on reservations.  Women who live on reservations are also the most vulnerable.

                  Blacks and Native Americans share a lot of history, but blacks have separate issues to deal with.  Toussaint L'Ouverture was absolutely brilliant in the way he freed Haiti.  So what is Papa Doc's excuse?  And how do blacks expect to advance in this country with all the black -on black crime, and denigration of their women?

                  About your friend - many white women who go for black men have told me similar stories.  The black men tend to be lowlifes, but they're an improvement over what the women were forced to live with.

                  1. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    "Black men tend to be lowlifed."  It is so amazing to read the stereotypical bigoted things people write and are truly unaware of what they are saying.

                    What is the definition of low life?
                    Who are they expected to live with?

                    Yes, you seem to have a deep anger or hatred of Black people.  It seems to be based on what happened to you as a child.   When I tell of what happened to me as a child, I'm considered whining, or making myself a victim, or bringing up the past or something.  What I went through did not cause me to hate white people or blame others.  I got an education and have been a hard working citizen with no police record.  Am I "what they are expected to live with?"  You seem to have such a feeling of superiority.  It sounds like you might need some group therapy. 

                    I'm not mad but I am appalled.

                  2. Say Yes To Life profile image82
                    Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    I did not say all black men are lowlifes.  I said the aforementioned white women tend to go for those types of black men.  I am fully aware not all black men are lowlifes, anymore than all white women are dysfunctional molestation victims.

                    1. dianetrotter profile image62
                      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      What you said...

                      "About your friend - many white women who go for black men have told me similar stories.  The black men tend to be lowlifes, but they're an improvement over what the women were forced to live with."

                      About your friend - many white women who go for black men have told me similar stories.  The black men tend to be lowlifes, but they're an improvement over what the women were forced to live with.

                      I interpet this to mean that many white men are either have bad judgment in selecting men  When they DO choose Black ment, they choose lowlifes.  Do any of them choose Black men who are not lowlifes.
                      You speak of being traumitized by Black kids in elementary school.  I don't know howlong ago you are in elementary school.  Emmett Till was brutally killed for whistling at a white woman.  As a teacher, myself, I know that students who are bullied MUST notify a teacher.  Administration should handle students who bully and the students should be expelled from school.

                      I wonder why they selected you to bully.  If they bullied others in the class, it would have been obvious that they were troublemakers.  It seems as you are a magnet for mistreatment by Black people.  Could it be something that you do that draws their ire?

                      I'm not saying that no Black kids bully.  However, those they bully tend to bully many - not just one person.  If you do not report these things, you cannot expect support from teachers.  They can lose their jobs by allowing someone to harrass others.  When I saw signs of any students harrassing others, I was all over it.

                      1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                        Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        No matter black or white when problems are not confronted and adjustments to those problems are not made, the problems grow deeper.

                        Diane , I like the way you go for solutions. Being colour blind from all my traveling. For each individual person I deal with it is tit for tat game , the best game to play for solutions.

                      2. Say Yes To Life profile image82
                        Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        Diane - yes, I was a major target for black bullies.  Yes, those bullies targeted others, including those of other races.  As I have stated several times before, the powers that be at the school and in my home were indifferent. I will add I had poor social skills, and was a coward; no doubt, that made the situation worse.

                        Looking back, the only time any positive action happened, with the exception of the social worker stepping in, is when I took it upon myself to inform the mother of one of my tormentors.  I now realize the parents of the bullies probably never knew what was going on.  I should have notified as many parents as I could.  Also, there's a possibility if I had fought back with a stick, like Richard Wright did on his mother's orders at the ripe old age of 6, perhaps my authority figures would never have found out, and I would not have to fear being put in the snake pit Juvenile Hall.

                        I was not a socially shrewd person when I was young.  I'm trying to use my 50+ year old wisdom to figure out where I went wrong in many areas of my life.  I like to pretend I'm my older sister, but I'm having trouble telling my preadolescent self what to do.

                        Your answers to the problem are correct, but you must realize that's not how it's usually done in the ghetto.  One typical story in Stormfront  tells of a white teacher who was not raised be racist, but became so when her black students kept bullying others, and when she reported them to their parents (nearly always a single mother), they were either indifferent or blamed her for being hypersensitive. 

                        I believe blacks really need to address one major reason why racism exists.  While 90% of blacks in this country are descendants of slaves, only 5% of whites are descendants of slave owners.  Most of the states did not have slavery, and the northern ones were more benevolent and even ended slavery earlier. 

                        This issue doesn't just concern whites.  Remember when I told about the Chinese boy who was tormented by the black girl, until he lost control and killed her?  I have come across numerous Asians who expect me to be a racist bully.  Some blacks may take offense, but I know where that's coming from, so I calmly show them I'm not like that.  I have never had a problem with an Asian.

                        Some Stormfront posters list where they're from.  I don't recommend it, but you can do a tour of those cities if you wish: Oakland, Cincinnati, Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, to name a few.  Then you'll see what they mean.

                        This is not a popular, politically correct subject, but if it's not properly addressed, racism will only get worse for blacks.

        16. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          What does the Alt right want?  Reccent images from alt right rallies

          http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13285146_f1024.jpg


          http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13285149.jpg


          http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13285150.jpg


          http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13285151.jpg

          1. Castlepaloma profile image75
            Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Make Reich great again

            Other words make Nazis rich again. Today it the Nazis jews taking Hitler dreams beyond. Lol

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              It is puzzling to me.

              I've heard on this discussion that Blacks who were not happy could go back to Africa.  How can you go BACK to a place you've never been.

              I saw a Native American poster that read "Love America or give it back."

              I would think the Alt Right would want to go BACK to Europe if they are attempting to create a white society.  However, it is impossible to make any country all one color.

              There should be a way for all of us to respect each other and work together for a better economy, jobs, cultural definition and peaceful co-existence.

              David Duke

              By Hrafnkell Haraldsson on Fri, Nov 18th, 2016 at 1:24 pm
              "Bravo President Trump! Some great first steps. We’re on the way, folks, to taking America back." - David Duke

              http://www.politicususa.com/2016/11/18/ … sions.html
              http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13285209.jpg

              1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Not easy making out what David Duke is aiming for. He actually got more votes from blacks in Louisiana than Trump did.

                Duke says he hasn't been a KKK member for 40 years. I agree with him on Zionist world order take over. He wants to preserve white culture as the white world population is at 14℅ and by 2050 with it going down to 9℅ . Black population will double by then. I pick brown because when you mix all the colors together you get brown.

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Maybe the Black people in Louisiana know something that we don't know.  I'd love to hear from them.  I'm open!  People of different ethnicities are falling in love.  They don't share Duke's vision.  I've heard of people who started out being racists falling in love with others of a different ethnicity.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    They can also be reborn (reincarnated) into the race they hated in their last life.

                    1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                      Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      The greatest punishment must be every human being has the black DNA in their blood where other race have not that domination thread.
                      Now you tell that to a KKK member. Lol

                      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                        Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        The greatest punishment must be every human being has codes of black DNA in their blood where other races do not. HUH????  Your comment makes no sense even if I edit it to do so.
                        The original KKK was a political movement which was worried about the black vote. It had nothing to do with anything else, as far as I know.

                    2. dianetrotter profile image62
                      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      Kathryn, I have wondered if you smoke that stuff!  Now, I still do!  smile

                2. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                  wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13285401.jpg

                  On the face of it, I see nothing wrong with David Duke wanting to preserve white culture. But here in America we always arrive back at the same fundamental problem with that seemingly harmless desire. There is also a great irony here since it is a fact that the Americans purposely destroyed the cultural identity of black African slaves to make them more docile and easier to manage. They separated them from their family and friends, and forbade them to speak their language and observe their customs. And we see the same evil was perpetrated on the Indigenous as well. But now the white racists are running scared, and they see Trump as "The Great White Hope". 

                  But what David Duke and his miscreant followers don't seem to understand is that this is not 1964. This generation isn't going to march peacefully down the streets  singing "We Shall Overcome". No, that is not going to happen. People are tired of waiting for things to change. The government has set up their FEMA camps (Konzentrationslagers) and militarized the police in anticipation of the violent backlash against the New Jim Crow (NJC) and the New World Order (NWO). I suspect this charade of Trump rising to power was planned by the ruling elite even before Obama was re-elected, as they do not leave much to chance. However, even though they have worked this all out on paper with their high powered "experts", there is another player in the game that the elite have not anticipated. Now with Trump at the helm, the evil racists are desperately circling the wagons, but it is too little too late. Their day has come and gone. I am reminded here of Custers Last Stand, because of their arrogance, they have no idea where they are heading.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                    Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    When the time comes when all the people of color surrounds White Custer and his white men. Then when Custer turns to me and says.
                    Looks like this is the End my friend. Then I will get out my makeup kit and make myself brown, then say. 
                    WHAT DO YOU MEAN WE... WHITE MAN.

                    1. dianetrotter profile image62
                      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      smile

                  2. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Preservation of culture is good when it is practical.  Example:  If Muslims come to power and expect us all to become Muslims.  Could that happen?  I doubt it.

                    Black people don't really know what the eating customs were wherever they came from.  They did become accustomed to eating the remnants of farm animals that were thrown away.  Now that we have become aware of the high fat content killing us, we have to modify that.  The food can't be a part of daily diets.

                    If our calendar had holidays for all cultures, I wonder if there would be much work going on.

                    It would really be something if we tried to maintain our culture to the exclusion of others and reason.

        17. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Alt-Right Gathers in D.C. to Celebrate Trump's Win, Protest Rages Outside

          http://jezebel.com/alt-right-gathers-in … 1789198845

          Tila Tequila ‏@AngelTilaLove  11h11 hours ago Washington, DC
          Women who complain about Trump saying, "Grab her by the pussy!" Are retards because I love getting grabbed by the p*ssy! Lmao!


          It’s unclear to what extent NPI’s wishes will be granted. However, they are so far galvanized by Trump’s appointments — particularly Steven Bannon, the former chairman of Breitbart News, to White House chief strategist and Senator Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) to Attorney General. Bannon has long been accused of anti-Semitism, and in 1986, Sessions was deemed too racist to serve as a federal judge.
          http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13287219_f1024.jpg



          Alcohol and racism make a dangerous cocktail!

          1. Misfit Chick profile image82
            Misfit Chickposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            As far as White Nationalists are concerned, they are PROUD that they have finally succeeded in 'taking back THEIR country'; and the really disturbing thing: MOST people who voted for Trump weren't even SORT of thinking about this kind of thing happening & didn't want it. I'm sorry, but I really think this word applies to them, now: IDIOTS who are obviously clueless about Christian militants. I used to be one, I know how damn dangerous they are.

        18. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Neither of these incidents - different sides of racial animus - should have happened

          Bullies Hospitalize 8-Year-Old, Tell Him To ‘Go Back To The Cotton Farm’

          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bul … af95ed5e0a

          When an 8-year-old boy from Louisiana attempted to defend himself and younger sister from a group of white bullies, they told him “You need to go back to the cotton farm.”

          ---------------------------------------------AND
          Man Describes Brutal Attack; Crowd Yelled ‘That’s A White Boy Trump Supporter’

          http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/11/11/ … supporter/

          A Chicago man said he was attacked by a group of people on the West Side after a car crash and shouting match, during which he said supported President-elect Donald Trump.

          1. Say Yes To Life profile image82
            Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Last Wednesday, a co-worker told me her daughter was accosted at work for wearing a "You're safe with me" button.  Yes, the button currently has political connotations, but is that any reason to attack someone?  Bullies just want an excuse to make trouble!

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I'm not familiar with the button.  I have seen people wear safety pins.

        19. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Some say coincidence.  I say "God!"
             
          Strangers Who Shared Thanksgiving Meal After Accidental Text Plan to Stay Friends

          http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/str … ay-n688471


          http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13293554.jpg


          http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13293555.jpg


          http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13293556.jpg


          http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13293557.jpg

          1. Castlepaloma profile image75
            Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            It would be nice if they had mixed race day. Since the Whites had dinner with the browns people on that day.
            Just once a year, for me that would means more to me than Christmas.

            There have multirasial day in Brazil and in Canada.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Do you thing the multiracial day helps?

              We have multiracial days often in my family.  Several of my nephews and cousins have white wives.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                There are multicultural events in every major city in Canada.They are very popular. People share each other cultures as they enjoy themselves a lot. Then they find out we are much more in common than we have differences from each other. Never seen a riot or even a fight at any of these events only pot festivals are more peaceful. Lol

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  That's it!  We need more weed!  The scary things is that they started overprocessing the weed in the 70s, adding chemicals that turned them into the incredible hulk.  Then somehow it became extremely addictive.

                  We should get FDA to approve the weed.  Then it will be too expensive to smoke.  Hey, never mind the weed.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                    Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Half the drug conviction are weed. Pure pot directly has killed 0 , where alcohol kills 88,000 and tobacco kills 480,000 per year in America.

                    Worst thing about pot, it take a party full of pot heads to order a pizza correctly.

                    1. dianetrotter profile image62
                      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      No anchovies please!

                      1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                        Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        Drugs is just another reason like Religion to control us. The funny thing about Jews is their heritage and blood is mostly Arabic. The brown Muslim in Europe are out growing whites. White don't even reproduce enough to replace themselves.

                        Muslim are not the bullies and they got nothing to lose, so they are going to win this war. The Zionist are on strike three with a third world war with no place to run. I envision a spiritual age without one world religion because first commandment where : no gods before me:, will not be most people's fear or worst sin.

        20. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          It took me a minute to get this but .. I got it!  Must read the whole thing to get impact of last paragraph
          Castle, this reminds me of our conversation


          They said despicable things about the Obamas but say they’re not racists. Yes, they are

          http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/art … 76188.html

          BY ROGER GUFFEY
          LINKEDIN
          GOOGLE+
          PINTEREST
          REDDIT
          PRINT
          ORDER REPRINT OF THIS STORY
          (This column first appeared in the Lexington (Ky.,) Herald-Leader.)

          Psychologists have long recognized rationalization as a defense mechanism that people use to excuse unacceptable or offensive behaviors by offering some pseudo-logical reasoning or self-serving explanations.

          Roger Guffey
          Roger Guffey
          Perhaps we justify that sumptuous dessert because we have earned a reward for sticking to our diet. Or we tell our boss we are sick, when we really want to go to the last game of the season. Some of these excuses are harmless, but far too often they are not.

          For the last eight years, people who have mounted despicable attacks on President Obama and his family have tried to rationalize their bigotries. Consider these examples:

          A Republican candidate here in Kentucky won a legislative seat, even though he had posted images of the Obama family as a band of monkeys, but he says he is not a racist.

          Yes, you are.

          A public official in West Virginia said she will be glad to have a dignified white first lady, instead of seeing an ape in high heels. But she says she is not a racist.

          Yes, you are.

          In Sheridan, Ind., people made a parade float of President Obama in a toilet, but said they are not racists.

          Yes, you are.

          A mayor in Pennsylvania ran a picture of Michele Obama on a wagon of orangutans under the caption ‘Move-in day at the White House’, but denied being a racist.

          Yes, you are.

          The people who insist that President Obama is not a native-born American deny they are racists.

          Yes, you are.

          A candidate in Tennessee posted a billboard with the caption “MAKE AMERICA WHITE AGAIN,” but he denied that he is a racist.

          Yes, you are.

          A mayor in Washington State ran an image of Michelle Obama as a gorilla, saying she could be attractive only to another monkey like her husband. Of course, he says he is not a racist.

          Yes, you are.

          When a gorilla escaped from a zoo in South Carolina, a GOP politician in South Carolina posted a Facebook page telling people to be on the lookout for Michelle Obama’s ancestor, but he says he is not racist.

          Yes, you are.

          After the 2008 election, some right-wing extremists circulated bumper stickers, quoting Psalm 109, that pray for God to kill President Obama, leaving his wife a widow and his children orphans, but they denied they are racists.

          Yes, you are.

          One of my favorite Abraham Lincoln stories relates his encounter with an elitist lawyer who, during a trial, dismissed him as a rustic bumpkin. Lincoln posed him a simple riddle. “If we call a tail a leg, how many legs does a horse have?’ The smug lawyer replied, “Five.” Lincoln corrected him. “No, he still has four legs, because calling a tail a leg does not make it one.”

          People are free to engage in self-delusion if they wish, but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck, it is a duck, and these comments are racist. But perhaps these bigots should heed the poet Robert Burns’ advice in the poem “To A Louse.”

          ‘O would some power the gift give us to see ourselves as others see us.’

          1. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Yep, I have heard such two faced rationalization for the balance of my lifetime.

            Race issues aside, I am going to be watching Trump like a hawk, on him like white on Rice, no pun, intended.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              People interpreted the article differently.  What I got out of it is "people who do terrorist acts are indeed terrorists."  Some took that to mean that all Muslims are terrorists.

              I know the bottom line was that Obama refuses to call terrorist what they are because he doesn't want to call Muslims terrorists.

              1. Credence2 profile image82
                Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                People who do terrorist acts are terrorists, yes that is true for everbody. Anybody can earn that title from Timothy McVeigh to specific members of the Islam faith. We avoid blanket descriptions and characterizations based on race or religion.

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  True!  That's what I got from it.

                  Evidently the author was saying Obama should call it what it is.  I didn't get the sense that he meant all Muslims unless it went over my head.

        21. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Are you still convinced that courts and police in America are synonymous with justice?

          http://lasvegastribune.net/clark-county … oure-fire/

          This lady was sexually assaulted by police officer in court room.  Judge refused to listen to her and turned her back to play with woman's daughter.  They jailed the woman for 2 months and put her child in a facility.

          She sued and won!  Police officer and judge FIRED!

        22. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Yesterday, I got an "aha" moment.

          When Van Jones' townhall meeting took place, he made this statement:  "The Republican Party sees the United States as colorblind."

          My "aha!"  That is why people accuse others of "racebaiting."  If you talk about race, you are racebaiting.  I think I mentioned that before but I did not connect it with the Republican party seeing the US as colorblind.

          I don't think being colorblind is a good idea.  There is so much to be appreciated when we can see color.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image75
            Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            When I look at Zionist US Congress I feel snow blind.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I'm looking online for Jake Tapper's interview with a racist.  He gave a speech at a university last night.  It 's better to hear him than for me to tell you what he said.  If I can find it, I will post it.

              Leave Israel alone!!!

              1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I looked up Jake trapper's and did not find anything related to Zionist. We are allowed to criticized just about anything under the Sun. Except if you criticized Zionist you lose you job on anything mainstream entertainment or media. When you can not criticized a group you know they are the only ones who have the real world power and control of the planet. Who criticizes Zionist by far most, are real Jews from America, just Youtube a few Jewish people online and find out for yourself.

                I would leave these Zionist alone if they could leave me alone. So I move myself far away as humanly possible. Where I am moving the people there are not deadly afraid of confronting these Zionist.

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I wrote you a long detailed synopsis on 3,000,000.  Read it!

                  Zionist.  Do you think it would be profitable for everyone to back off and let there be a full scale war in the West Bank?

                  I am not a historian or a student of war so I don't know.  How do you resolve the issue respecting the rights of everyone?

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                    Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    I can't imagine any group substaining to work with Trump. From the staff Trump picked, how in the world is he going to herd all these kinds of cats, when he finds cats useless and sad. I know, I work with groups of artist and Trump tried to unionized them on a contract that he couldn't leave alone with me.

                    Trump is so extremely vague, I pitty each group that must get boss around by him. He will only add torture with both the Zionist and the Palestinians. Yet he dose know he is Rothschild and Rockefeller boy.

                  2. Live to Learn profile image59
                    Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    It is interesting that you bemoan the plight of indigenous Americans yet don't feel the Jewish nation has a right to their historical homeland, free of war.

                    I wonder. If somehow there were enough people of the native tribes, if they banded together and took over this land would you support all out war against them? (Actually I don't wonder. I know what your answer would be.)

                    Can you say hypocrite?

                    1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                      wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      Can you say: "I haven't taken the time to study the history of the region but I still have an opinion"? The Zionists are  colonizers, just like the Europeans. And just like the United States it is all about greed. The Zionist leaders have always been more interested in territory and material wealth than human life on either side of the fence.

                      You speak of the Jews as if they are monolithic. But you would do well to study history.  Here is what Jews themselves say about the evil Zionists and how they helped Hitler murder millions of their own people during WWII. You don't see info like this on CNN or Fox News because the Zionists control the networks. Orthodox Jews hate the Zionists. Surely they are not anti-semitic.

                      http://www.truetorahjews.org/lieberman

                    2. dianetrotter profile image62
                      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      ?

                      Live, I think you picked up on part of a discussion I was having with Castlepaloma.  Or maybe your comment is to him.

                      If it is for me, please clarify.

                      1. Live to Learn profile image59
                        Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        I was talking to castle.

        23. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          CREDENCE!!! Where are you????  I had to leave your people.  Please, puhleez tell me I don't remind you of them.

        24. NCOutdoors profile image62
          NCOutdoorsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Of course it slavery should not be forgotten. But the blame needs to go away. No one is left alive that participated in it.

          The left does not want constructive conversations on race. It would eliminate their favorite weapon, claiming every white person is a racist.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Hi NC!  Thank you for the in-service on deer pee.

            Your comment drew me to your article because I like to get a feel for people.  On October 18, my brother-in-law fell out of a deer stand and died.  I had never heard of a deer stand.  I looked it up.  Your article gives me the best example of "why" a person should use a deer stand.

            I started this forum for a productive discussion of race.  Not that everyone has to agree and ... we don't.  However, we can to learn the "why" ;if you will of it.

            I originally posted because I was puzzled to hear people upset after hearing Michelle Obama talk about slaves building the WH.  Social media lit up about her race baiting.  I though, "I completely missed it!"

            I am Black.  I am not a liberal.  I do like to know what other people think.  Discussion here and recent developments after the election led me to conclude, "Those who want to consider the US to be colorblind are angered when a comment is made about race.

            1. NCOutdoors profile image62
              NCOutdoorsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I am not colorblind. In fact, I love diversity. Mostly because I have some background in genetics.
              I am bi-racial. I see liberals as pushing their agendas using race because it is so easy for me to see both sides. I see race pushed with all sorts of fake narratives. And minorities, especially blacks, buy into it. And after being falsely accused of being racist a million times, whites get sick of it. That is then perceived as more racism. It creates tension. Just what liberals want.

              Blacks have to admit they have a culture problem. The current focus on all these bogus racism claims makes that improbable. And honestly, other people are getting trapped in similar cultural problems; it isn't limited to blacks, they were just targeted by liberal policies first.

          2. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            CREDENCE, Where are you????
            Actually, I don't appreciate the topic or tone of you know who's question.  I couldn't take it.

            1. Credence2 profile image82
              Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Hi, Diane, I am right here, please state the nature of the emergency?

          3. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
            wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13310955.jpg

            Here you come with your great big strawman. And what you are saying doesn't even make sense. That's like telling a guy who got his arm ripped off by a grizzly bear that he should never forget that he only has one arm, but he should stop telling people who took it.

            You just don't get it. Nobody cares about blame. Blame doesn't pay the bills, and neither does an apology.

            For instance: I got mad and shot your son in the head; your son who happened to be your sole means of support " Gee, I'm sorry!" I stole your life savings and now you're living in a cardboard box. "Gee, I feel really bad, and I am truly sorry!" That's how stupid sorry looks when you lay it out on the table. 

            You're living in a dream world if you think people of color spend a lot of time wanting to blame someone. That is just another racist fantasy. People of color want the same opportunity as everyone else. People of color want to be free of persecution; and especially free of miscreant cops who have the authority to even kill black children with impunity. And black people are owed reparations, as well as the Indigenous. Nobody works for free. Do you? They are owed 400 years of back pay. And that's not welfare my friend.

            Their ancestors earned every nickel while they were working in the fields, and  while their daughters were being raped in the barn. Why shouldn't their  descendants profit from their misery? The white man sure has. Slave labor and King Cotton is what made the United States a world power. Yes, they owe them a hell of a lot of money.  And the United States also  owes the Indigenous for all the broken treaties, the stolen land and mineral rights, as well as the genocide committed against our people. You wanna play, you gotta pay. And if you have a problem with that, then  tell your boss Monday morning that from here on out, it's Pro Bono all the way. See how that fits, and then get back to me.

            1. NCOutdoors profile image62
              NCOutdoorsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Thank you for demonstrating your pure ignorance. A perfect example of the real problem. False victimhood.

              1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13310996.jpg

                Nothing false about it. If you are having trouble, get someone to read American History to you starting at 1492.  No, I just backed you into a corner that you can't get out of. Oh sure, you can spew your vitriol from here to eternity, but you'll still be standing in that corner. Why?  I'll tell you and Archie Bunker why. You are struck in that corner because you have no valid argument against reparations. The fact that you, nor any of your friends would volunteer to work for free today, or tomorrow, provides empirical evidence that you would certainly not accept 400 years of forced labor upon your family and your descendants.

                Let's keep it real. Let's face it, and let's get a life. If you tripped on a used condom and toppled down the escalator at the shopping mall and ended up in the hospital for 3 months, only to find out that you contracted HIV at the hospital from a dirty needle, don't tell me you wouldn't try to sue someone for pain and suffering, and lost wages. No one will believe you. This isn't Facebook or Youtube. Perhaps you are out of your element.

                1. NCOutdoors profile image62
                  NCOutdoorsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Yeah, being a complete nutbag makes your point much clearer. LOL.

                  1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                    wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13292618.jpg

                    Just as I predicted, rather than not saying anything at all when you have no valid argument, or anything of value or interest to add to a conversation. You continue with childish insults. And your insults also reveal a lack of creativity. Here is what you have offered:

                    NCOUTDOOR commented:

                    "Thank you for demonstrating your pure ignorance. A perfect example of the real problem. False victimhood."

                    "Yeah, being a complete nutbag makes your point much clearer. LOL."


                    Yes, these are very predictable responses, and you are not alone. The problem with you and many others is that you have no real argument. If you had an argument then you would have presented your argument instead of meaningless insults. You are my subordinate, not because I say so, but because you have demonstrated that your self. There many racists on Hubpages who do not agree with the truth. But some of them are intelligent, at least to a certain degree. Some will at least offer up a feeble argument, which does indicate that they learned how to read and write, and that they have a modest ability to engage in the process of critical thinking. And since your reliance on childish insults suggests that you don't know the definition of critical thinking, I will offer it here:

                    Critical Thinking: the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment.


                    When we look at the definition we can clearly see why the racist commonly resorts to insults rather than offering a reasonable opinion. It is very difficult, if not impossible, for a racist to have an objective opinion about race related issues. And without an objective opinion it is impossible to raise anything but a pedestrian, one sided argument. For instance, when we look at the issue of minority employment we see that a majority of black people are employed. However, a favorite tact of the racist is to point out that blacks are disproportionately unemployed as compared to whites. And they will offer up statistics to back up their claims, as if they are  delivering a smoking gun, or an "aha!" moment. But of course, it is not an "aha!" moment at all, but instead a "So what?"moment.

                    My Bulletproof Argument
                    by Ronnie wrenchBiscuit aka "The White Man's Moses" ©  2016

                    I can say that a disproportionate amount of cancer patients will die prematurely as compared to people who have herpes. Yes, I can say that and it is a fact of life, but it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. And it certainly doesn't mean that cancer patients don't try hard enough to stay alive, or that they are not as intelligent, or motivated, as the people who suffer from herpes, or that they are morally bankrupt. It simply means that their condition is far more serious than herpes, which is not a life threatening disease.

                    Racism can be likened to a terminal disease. When white racists whine and complain about "reverse discrimination", "affirmative action" etc., metaphorically speaking they aren't even talking about herpes, but instead the common cold. However, when a person of color is talking about racism, they are speaking about the social equivalent of terminal cancer. Of course in an oppressive racist system there will be a disproprtionate amount of blacks who are umemployed, and of course in an oppressive racist system there will be a disproportinate amount of blacks who are incarcerated in the evil "prison for profit" system. But here we are not looking at the general character of the  black community. Instead, what we are looking at is the general character of a disease, and the debilitating effects of that disease.

                    Let the world marvel at my bulletproof argument. And there is no racist dead or alive who can challenge my argument, or my authority. Let them come, and as I have done here, I will own them all.

                    1. NCOutdoors profile image62
                      NCOutdoorsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      Seriously, I don't speak Nutbag. You can't argue with the ramblings of someone so... off. This was about a productive conversation, not arguing with someone who clearly needs medication.

                      1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                        wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13311814.jpg
                        Contrary to your last response, you are arguing with me. In fact you are doing the best that you can do, which is evident in this collection of your childish responses presented here. In order to have any kind of  conversation, productive or otherwise, an individual must first be able to articulate their ideas, either verbally or in written form. You seem to be having difficulty in doing that. This is what you have presented so far:


                        1st Response of NCOUTDOOR
                        "Thank you for demonstrating your pure ignorance. A perfect example of the real problem. False victimhood."

                        2nd Response of NCOUTDOOR
                        "Yeah, being a complete nutbag makes your point much clearer. LOL."

                        3rd Response of NCOUTDOOR
                        Seriously, I don't speak Nutbag. You can't argue with the ramblings of someone so... off. This was about a productive conversation, not arguing with someone who clearly needs medication.

        25. S Leretseh profile image60
          S Leretsehposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Racial (and gender ) integration, by legislative fiat...was NEVER supposed to happen. It is an anomaly/ fluke...in human history. Only males that are slaves to written laws are capable of enduring such a  ridiculous - and abusive - legislative mandate. Societies are, historically, and excluding Western Civilization governments, male group oriented  - i.e. males coalesce  based on race , language and religion. Societies are MALE social stratification systems based on race, language and religion... Trying to defeat human nature by legislative laws...is not what our illustrious founding fathers created the legislative system for. 

          By forcing integration (non-white males and females) on white Christian males,  naturally, violating human nature  - in the most extreme - we have created an environment ripe for discord, dissension and strife. Every male group MUST create their own status environment...and FEMALES must respect the male group's domain.

          1. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            BS, the AMERICA you live in now would not exist with concepts that you seem to be promoting.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              There you are Credence!!!

              I've been looking for you.  I had to leave the group with the disrespectful topic.
              I am the same all over social media:  Facebook, LinkedIn, Google+, Twitter, Instagram, etc.

              I will never participate in any topic started by that person because I don't want to waste my time or have someone think they are tricking me.

          2. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I read your profile page ... very interesting.

            Do you really think these groups could cohabit in peace?  What about people that have children outside of their designated groups?

            My dna results show relatives all arond the world.

            Africa 79%
            Cameroon/Congo 27%
            Nigeria 20%
            Ivory Coast/Ghana 16%
            Senegal 9%
            Trace Regions 7%
            Europe 20%
            Ireland 8%
            Europe West 7%
            Trace Regions 5%
            West Asia < 1%
            Trace Regions

        26. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Farrakhan Sees a New Opening for Black Separatist Message

          http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/farr … e-44267733

          Who on earth listens to Louis Farrakhan?

          1. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Everything he says is fine with me except for the idea of black separatism. If this country belongs to anyone, it belongs to me, why should I go? We have paid the price in blood and treasure and I am not going anywhere....

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Isn't that all he talks about?  I remember some BMs coming through the neighborhood (Inglewood) to collect funds for a Black hospital.  They wanted me to be shocked because there wasn't a Black hospital.  I think hospitals should be open for the greatest research, talent, training, patient needs, etc., regardless of color.

              Any suggestion of separation is ridiculous.  There are communities that emphasize their culture and families and friends live close to each other; however, there is no way that a cultural community can be totally independent of the outside.

        27. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          If there is no bigotry, why do these things continually happen?

          Arkansas high school teacher accused of 'racially charged' Web posts resigns
          District: Remarks ‘racially charged’

          Screenshots from a Facebook page with Bennett's name and photo show a comment that referred to Michelle Obama as "America's First Chimp."

          http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2016 … sts-resig/

          1. NCOutdoors profile image62
            NCOutdoorsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            People segregate by culture. We like people who think and act like us. Racial differences (skin color, hair color, physical differences) really matter very little.

            So, we already tend to stay within our culture, what happens if a differing culture appears or truly becomes "harmful". Like cultures that support Hip-Hop type pictures of gang bangers. Or cultures that seem to support terrorism. What if those cultures lose their sense of responsibility? The concept of the family? They become a culture of dependence and welfare? Other cultures look down on them, fear them, hate them. THEN racism based on superficial differences starts.

            Liberal ideas damaged minority cultures, especially blacks. We need to fix our damaged cultures before others will want to try again.

            Or... we keep going with liberalism and when they are all equally damaged, we'll see more integration.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I'm sorry.  What does that have to do with an educator calling Michelle Obama a chimp.  Then continues to make a bigoted statement about her family getting out of the White House and to never have chimps in the WH again.

              I don't comment on some discussions because I'm trying to stay on a productive discussion.  Many claim there is no racism/bigotry.  I give examples to show this is a real issue.

              Michelle O has not been on welfare.  Neither has her family.  It is bigoted to call her and her family chimps.  It lets me know what THOSE people (who make the statements) think of me.  I have never been on welfare.  I have never had children.

        28. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          All hate crimes should be called out for what they are, regardless of who commits them.  They should not be used to further divide people.  The issue is not special interest but humanity.

          Morning Mix
          Hate crime charges filed after ‘reprehensible’ video shows attack on mentally ill man in Chicago

          https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mor … b8d4d516c7 

          There is no excuse for what they did.  It should not be used as an excuse for a reverse hate crime.

      24. Paul Kuehn profile image83
        Paul Kuehnposted 8 years ago

        As a white male over 50, affirmative action and reverse discrimination against whites like me froze me into a pay grade for the last 19 years I worked for the government.

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I'm sorry to here that.  Frozen in a position for 19 years.  Did you ever ask why or document what happened?  A director at Hughes told me that I should have changed jobs because when people get comfortable seeing you in a position they can't imagine you moving up or you are too valuable in that position.  After hearing that, I quit the company.  I'm glad I did.  I appreciated him being honest with me.

          1. wilderness profile image78
            wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            It happened because the law required companies (and government) to hire based on skin color and sex.  It's called "racism" and was legally forced onto employers.

            1. profile image0
              Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I think you speak to one of the other main springs of racism. People who identify as a group will try to exclude others from precious resources if there is not enough for everybody.

              In Northern Ireland, Protestants as a group excluded Catholics from the best paying jobs. Unions and employers colluded in the shipyards, etc.

              The Protestant majority used their political power to shift public funding to Protestant schools at the expense of Catholic schools, etc

              The well-to-do Protestants could then look at poor Catholics and deride them as ill educated people who never amounted to anything and could not be trusted with any position in society.

              Religion, ethnicity, skin color are all used as excuses to marginalize groups that can be seen as competitors.

              Racism is multidimensional.

              1. Credence2 profile image82
                Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Racism sometimes involves simple exclusion from resources and services not because of the dearth of same, it is simply done by the racist majority because they can use these instances to exercise and maintain its power, control and oppression. There was no reason for Southern legislators to insist that the beneficial provisions of the New Deal notbe made available to Black workers in the South, except for sheer spite and meanness. Nothing to do with competing for scarce resources. Such was the brutal nature of racism in AMERICAN society.

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Great comments!  Thank you Credence2!

                2. profile image0
                  Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  There is some dispute over that legislation. Many black people benefitted in the cities, many white people were excluded (along with black people) in the rural areas.

                  Overall black people lost out more than whites but you would need to dig deep to demonstrate that the sole or main motive was racism, though I imagine it was somewhere in the mix.

                  Anyway, I don't think it helps to demonise whites any more than it helps to demonise blacks.

          2. gmwilliams profile image85
            gmwilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            When one is in a position, one should start seeking promotions from the gitgo. It is never good to remain in the same position after FIVE YEARS.  One should always looking past the first position & act like one is one to two levels up.  I WOULDN'T LET anyone freeze me into a position.  I would REBEL.....& COMPLAIN.   I am good at opening my mouth-  I wasn't one to be messed with in the work world.  Treat me NICE ......or else..............don't want to see my BAD side, trust me!
            http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/9806337.png

        2. Credence2 profile image82
          Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I worked for the Feds for over 30 years, I would have moved on long before I suspected that I was not being promoted for political reasons, Affirmative Action or no.

          1. gmwilliams profile image85
            gmwilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            NO WAY would I have stayed in the same grade & pay NINETEEN years.  I would have left the job period.  When I took a job, it was with the purpose of being promoted.   It is passive to take this kind of job abuse.  He should have rebelled or complained to the supervisor or HR, if that didn't work, LEAVE.  NO JOB is worth staying at the same grade.  No way in %^&$^$! hell would I remain in the same grade for years.  I would look for ways to get out.

        3. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13185743.jpg

          Over a period of 19 years why didn't you do something about it? Every racist that has ever given their humble and uneducated opinion here in these Forums has maintained that black people living in the ghetto could do better and rise above their position if they would just "stop whining", "stop playing the victim", and motivate toward a better future. Here, playing the devils advocate, we can also apply this Archie Bunkerism to your situation. Instead of crying the blues for 19 years and playing the victim, why didn't you motivate yourself toward a better paying job, or another career. What was holding you back? Was it racism against whites in a country where whites are the majority? Is that what held you back? Really? How does the shoe fit, now that I have placed it on the other foot?

          1. IslandBites profile image68
            IslandBitesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Ouch.

          2. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Paul, I wonder about that also.  Most organizations are a pyramid.  The higher you try to go, there is less competition.  However, that competition is stiffer.

            If a person was hired over you, then that person was no longer competing with you.  Did people consistently come in that were promoted above you?  That is a case for systematic discrimination.  Perhaps something in your evaluations was used to pass you.  If not, you must learn how to take a stand.

            I just went through it with age discrimination for 5 years.  I documented every mark less than "satisfactory." I let my students see my evaluations and went all the way up to the District Administrator.  When you are good and you know you are good, use the system to fight.

            Sorry for putting it here, WR.  I can't remember where this comment was.

        4. Ivan Tod profile image61
          Ivan Todposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Sounds to me like the old "the man is keeping me down" rhetoric blacks used to use as an excuse for not succeeding in America. The only true reason for being held back is the lack of will to improve upon ones' situation. America is filled with opportunity at arms length...just reach for it.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I found it to be a little incredulous.  Getting passed over for a promotion is one thing but for 19 years?  One has to look internally when this happens.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
              Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              … and what does one find internally?  In your case, what was the basis for being passed over for promotions, do you suppose?
              Why does it seem to blacks that black lives do not matter to whites? Some white employers are prejudiced, it seems.  Some cops are prejudiced, it seems. Are there (white) others who are blatantly or subtly hostile to blacks? teachers? managers? school principals?

              I am confused since I live in CA. I was not raised to be racist or prejudiced and I do not know anyone who was or is.

              What does the prejudice seem to be based on???

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Possibly you grew up in California.  I grew up in Arkansas in the 50s.    Promotions require not only knowledge of the field personality traits.  I don't think I mentioned being passed over for promotions.  If I did, please refresh my memory.

                I can't wrap my mind around ISIS, gangs, rapists, etc.  Because I would not do any of those things does not mean that they have not been done.

                There are people with cycle cell anemia, Lou Gehrig's disease, cancer, etc.  My not having it doesn't make it NOT real for those who do have it.

                It seems you are upset.  I don't understand it.

      25. whonunuwho profile image51
        whonunuwhoposted 8 years ago

        Unfortunately the political parties are using racial issues as a stepping stone to office. If you will notice there has been a huge upswing in the number of media posted racial issues since candidates started running for office.Some News networks controlled by certain powerful people who want to be in more power, use these issues to get what they want. We are all duped and used as guinea pigs in the process.Some racial disruptive events were horrible and should never have been started. There is still much division in this country and room for much improvement. Thank you for listening.whonu

        1. jackclee lm profile image75
          jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I tried to start a conversation and look for real solutions...
          Here are 2 of my hubs.

          https://soapboxie.com/social-issues/Som … oll-Models
          http://hubpages.com/business/Tackling-t … nt-Problem

        2. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Younu!  You know, I think you are on to something.  The use of camera phones is stepping up the news also.

      26. Alphadogg16 profile image82
        Alphadogg16posted 8 years ago

        No, slavery should not be forgotten, but it should not be an issue or a discussion in todays world. There are not many people alive today that can factually validate what actually happened, who built what, how the were treated, etc. During that time, slavery was legal, as was genocide and apartheid. There were many White people thatalso lost their lives, homes, money, etc for attempting to/helping Blacks. We will never move forward as a people, dwelling on a past that none of us had a part in.

      27. Kiss andTales profile image60
        Kiss andTalesposted 8 years ago

        I like how you explain this Alphad.
        I heard a quote similar to your words we can not live the past we must live for our future , what will those generations say about our past that we lived out our ancestors ? No we make and create our own history either for the good or bad.
        But we are a new generation 21 century
        God has blessed us to exist and live in.

      28. clivewilliams profile image71
        clivewilliamsposted 8 years ago

        Because People are racist

        1. michelleonly3 profile image96
          michelleonly3posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Let's clarify what Racism is; Racism is HATING another person based on the color of their skin, social bias is believing something about a person because of the color of their skin. Most people have what Psychology calls hidden social bias even if they never make a racist statement. Most people do not HATE other people based on race. The word Racism is thrown around to encompass any type of situation where a lack of judgement or social bias may be present. People who say everyone is RACIST are ignorant and do not understand racism. Here are some clarifying examples:
          1. Person makes a  comment about an oriental girl being smart- this is social bias not racism.
          2. Person sees a white person and wants to kill him because he is white- that is racism.
          Hate is the defining factor of racism. Too many people do not know the difference.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I started the forum after O'Reilly was very offended because Michelle Obama said, at DNC, slaves built the White House.  When he discovered that slaves did partcipate, he said "They were fed well."

            Many people considred her comment as race baiting.  I asked "Why?"  So maybe you can define race baiting for us also.

            Can you tell about the process by which non-whites are not paying off college loans?

            I'll have to let my nephew know about it.

            1. Live to Learn profile image59
              Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I doubt she meant they weren't paying off college loans. My experience has been that minorities who went to schools with me were given grants, scholarships, etc based solely on the fact that they were a minority. Not one black person in the boarding school I went to as a kid payed their way. They were all on full scholarship. College, also, had a high percentage of minorities who were heavily subsidized to be there.

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I wish I had had access to grants.  I got NDSL loans and had to pay them back.

                My nephew really needed access to the information.  He graduated #5 in his class and got a full ride to Georgetown which paid his tuition.  He graduated owing $10K because his Aunt Me helped him also.

                He owed $260K after completing law school.

                Often perception is not reality.  UNCF raises money for Black students who must apply and it is awarded based on merit and need.  HBCU used to have a large marathon every December with Lou Rawls.  Again, merit plus need.

                All programs have a name.  I'd like to know the name of at least one so I can use it to help my great nephew.

                Please help me with a name!

                1. Live to Learn profile image59
                  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Got me. I went to school years ago. Didn't get any help, didn't look for any so had no idea then, either, what was available and from where.

                2. wilderness profile image78
                  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  http://www.uncf.org/
                  https://www.thiswaytocpa.com/education/ … ip-search/
                  http://www.collegegrant.net/grants-for-black-women/
                  https://www.moneygeek.com/education/col … -students/
                  https://www.scholarships.com/financial- … olarships/

                  Google "college grants for blacks" or something similar.  You will find hundreds of links promoting grants and scholarships based primarily on race, although merit, need or field of study often plays a part.

                  1. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    I wasn't even planning on going to college.  I went because my friends were going.  My godmother and dear friend administered a college-work study program.  I worked my way through college.

                    Counselors help students take necessary testing and apply for financial aid through fastweb.  There are private sources shown on fastweb which provide scholarships/grants to high school students from disdvantaged backgrounds.  HOWEVER, it is not that easy.  They have to write an essay about their past and their plans to overcome.  Those usually last for one year.

                    Perception
                    There is a perception among many (NOT YOU!) white people that Black people are getting a lot of things free.  When Black kids only went to HBCUs, there was no problem.  The problem came when white students saw Black kids sitting RIGHT THERE in the same classrooms with them.  Then the mind starts working, "HOW did THEY get in here." 

                    The underlying assumptions are
                    1.  All white people are smarter than all Black people
                    2.  They have never been here before.  They don't belong here.
                    3.  How do they pay for it?
                    4.  They're only here because of affirmative action.  They couldn't have gotten here on their own.
                    5.  Black people are poor so they must have been let in free.
                    6.  They start complaining about all the free stuff Blacks are getting secretly even though they have no evidence.

                    These things were said to me and to others, in range so I could hear them.  That is part of that racist mentality.

                    1. Credence2 profile image82
                      Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      This correlates with a lot of my experiences, now you are cooking with gas!

                      1. dianetrotter profile image62
                        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        Like Paul Ryan says, "Textbook case!"

                        I can understand those who are poor and no groups appear to mentor encourage them as opposed to the community efforts of UNCF, HBCU, NAACP, and other organizations that were organized in raising money for poor Black kids.  I am sure nothing like that happened for the poo white kids (I guess???).

                      2. GA Anderson profile image85
                        GA Andersonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        But...
                        ... and putting aside the knotheads that are everywhere in every age...

                        Do you think today's classrooms have the same underlying perceptions? I say they do not.

                        Again, putting aside the Neanderthals that will always be with us, do you think today's college-age generation has the same preconceptions that Dianne spoke of?

                        Obviously I do not think so. I think tremendous progress has been made. But that does not mean I think the journey is over. It just means that I think our kids are less encumbered by our generation's cultural stereotypes. 

                        GA

                    2. Live to Learn profile image59
                      Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      It's interesting that you use the word 'many' when talking about what white people think but, obviously not the person you were talking to. Out of curiosity did the majority of white people you interacted with during that time express those things? Or only a few. Just because you did not hear an exchange where someone called them out on it does not imply that the listeners were in agreement.

                      This is the problem I have with listening to people talk about being discriminated against. One incident does not mean anything other than you had a lousy encounter with someone.

                      1. dianetrotter profile image62
                        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        I use many because I'm purposedly not trying to say "All white people" or "White people."

                        Yes I actually heard many and saw smurks as they tried to joke about it.  Possibly some smurked because they didn't want to be involved.  Leo Lee, a Black man, was sentenced to the death chair for raping a white woman.  The white woman lived across the street from Mrs. Scruggs, a white lady my father worked for doing odd jobs.  Mrs. Scruggs told my daddy that she had seen Leo Lee go to the woman's house frequently and that they were going together.  I was about 8 years old and the automatic follow on question I was thinking is "Why didn't Mrs. Scruggs say something?"

                        The saddest thing was to see Leo Lee's mother walking through the neighborhood trying to raise money to get another trial for her son.  I'm sure she died  without being able to help him.

                        You must remember my age!  Over time, there were many!  smile

                    3. michelleonly3 profile image96
                      michelleonly3posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      It is not my perception that these students were getting the classes for free, this is what they told me. I didn't assume they were getting an education for free. In fact before it was brought up in our class study group, I didn't even think about it.

                      1. dianetrotter profile image62
                        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        They may have gotten it free or they might have misunderstood what the details were.

                        Example
                        When I was in 10th grade, our pastor's daughter then to Washington DC to work for the FBI.  I was told that she received a scholarship from the FBI to go to college.  I started referring to it as an FBI scholarship.  I tried to apply and it turned out that it was a job as a secretary for the FBI.  There was educational reimbursement.

                        After I inquired and went through the process, I got the details.

            2. michelleonly3 profile image96
              michelleonly3posted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Race Baiting is a pop culture term not a "academic" term. We use to just consider any intentional emotional  media  driven campaign to be propaganda. I'm a moderate. To me the news stations are out of control anyway. The news stations do not report the news, they report conjecture. We can use the Websters dictionary definition of "Race Baiting" as "the unfair use of statements about race to try to influence the actions or attitudes of a particular group of people". I saw it happening last night. Sean Hannity had Trump on his program with all the mothers of people who had been victims of violent crime by illegal immigrants. It was an attempt to garnish support for "The Wall".
              I watched Michelle Obama's speach, and I should mention that I do not like her, however for the first time I saw a side of her I could relate to in the world. Her comments, although not completely accurate, explained a lot of her attitude, and for the first time I could understand her. If I am being completely honest I feel like she sold out, I feel like the Obama's sold out the American people. Every person is responsible for his or her own comments and Bill O'Reilly is a big boy, if he wants to say stupid things that's on him.
              The college thing I was referring to  is the fact that when I went to college not one but every black person in my classes was getting their education paid for by a either a government entity or a scholarship that required almost nothing of them(this is by their own words). These are good people and I don't begrudge them an education, however it is not a level playing field when I have 100k in college debt and they get that same education for free. My point with that is you cant scream equality unless you want equality.
              I dealt with workplace inequality with men in terms of pay and promotions, so I know what it's like to be judged based on how you look. One more thing I want everyone to understand is that anyone who is white is on their own in terms of state aid. I have worked since I was 17, in 2011 as a result of the crash I was laid off from a job that paid 45k year. I was a district manager. Unemployment was $1,000 a month, I had two kids. I put in tons of applications however, all the businesses were bombarded with 100-200 applications per job.  That $1000 didn't even pay rent, I went to get temporary assistance and was told by the case worker that I was not eligible based on the fact that I wasn't a minority and I didn't  have enough children. When we talk about race we have to be honest about the paradigm shift in this country. Not that there are not white career welfare  moms, but being told I'm on my own was like saying "well you are white so that should be good enough".
              Lastly, We can have an intelligent conversation about race, that conversation should be able improving social situations now. The wars were fought, the only slavery in this country is sex slavery. We do not need to reenact the civil war, or MLK's march. What we need is to have an honest conversation about drugs, dangerous neighborhoods, kids growing up without respect and hope. We need to look at each other and love one another as human beings understanding that we all face challenges and we all want the best for our kids.

      29. Paul Graham Toora profile image57
        Paul Graham Tooraposted 8 years ago

        Why can't people discuss race in a productive manner?
        Because so many people have been/are hurt, so many people are/have been blamed and so many people forget that we have eyes on the front of our heads to see where we are going. There is fear that the listener will not understand or will filter for disrespect, an insult or an attack and there is fear that the speaker is wanting to attack, insult, disrespect or can't understand. The belief that experience governs understanding. The belief that experience governs empathy. This added to the lack of freedom given to explain intention when a language mistake is made or fear that one will be locked to a spoken mistake and eggshells are walked on. Hurt leaves one wanting to be understood to insure it does not happen again. That message can get blurred into the message made by some wanting payback as the start of both positions (pointing out the wrongs) is the same. The belief that we do not all have the same intention to better us all. Or to sum it in a sentence.

        Because people do not see that there is only one race on this earth, the human race!

        As for Michelle Obama's comment's. This is exactly what I mean. She stated fact! She did not say anything should be forgotten. I took what she said as an indication of how your country had grown changed and evolved for the better, but i guess she didn't say anything about that either. But she did state fact!

      30. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
        Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

        Woodwork is hard to take down especially if it is strong and durable and meant to last and benefit all.  We need to accept it, polish it and admire such woodwork. Those who gouge it, scape it and mar it must be stopped.
        When there are enough who appreciate the woodwork, we will be able to keep the others at bay.
        No problem.
        Until that day, I for one, will keep defending the Constitution wherever I see fit.
        Even if that day never comes in my lifetime. which it probably won't since after all we are at the lower end of the higher ages.
        Better luck next time around.
        sad

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          That's very nice Kathryn, but I will ask you directly what others here cannot  answer. They cannot answer my question because the answer completely destroys their racist rhetoric. Once again I have owned them all without breaking a sweat! And here is the question:

          In a country that was founded by white people, and still primarily controlled by a white majority, why is there more poor white people in the U.S. than any other race? Because of their obvious advantages, why are they unable to succeed when Kim Hung Lo can immigrate to this country and be successful? Is it because they are stupid, lack motivation, or have a victim mentality? Or is it because they would rather smoke crack all day and live on food stamps?

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
            Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            "In a country that was founded by white people,
            and is still primarily controlled by a white majority…" Is this true?

            "Why are there more
            poor white people
            in the U.S.
            than any other race?"  Where?

            "Because of their obvious advantages,
            Why are they
            unable to succeed?"  What obvious advantages?

            My personal reply is that I do not know because I do not see statistics and locations where this is true.
            You think there is some broad brush answer?

            I disagree. (Understatement)

          2. jackclee lm profile image75
            jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            That's because you don't have a good understanding of laws of nature. The bell curve. The Bible talks about how the poor you will always have...
            The number of White people poor is not the important factor but the percent of white people. There is always going to be about 10% of all people that will fall below the poverty line.

            In a country of 320 Million people, 10% is going to be 32 Million.  Of that number, most of them will be White because the majority of the populations are White.

            Among various ethnic group, you will find variations..
            However, there is something wrong if a segment of the population (blacks) have a significant higher per cent of poor. In this case, we need to find the underlying cause. Is it due to racism? or something else?
            Do you understand now?

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
              Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              another good isolation of the difficulty, JI

              "However, there is something wrong if a segment of the population (blacks) have a significant higher per cent of poor. In this case, we need to find the underlying cause. Is it due to racism?"

              or something else?
              OR SOMETHING ELSE?
                   That something else is govt.-related. Government has tried to help them when they should have been left / facilitated to help themselves.
              Now they don't know how.
              Its the same with the Indians. We could have helped them assimilate with dignity and willingness. We could have helped the blacks assimilate with dignity and willingness. How this is to be done? This is the new science.

              Possibly, through allowing them to teach themselves and their own and just leaving well enough alone as far as hand-outs and more as far as education. Teach the teachers so the teachers can teach their own communities. Something like that. The day will come slowly at first and then like a fire hose. We just aren't there yet… getting closer by the day, hopefully.

              The Way I See It

            2. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
              wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              What I understand is that in order to keep your narrative going you make statements that are contradictory. You make excuses for the poor white people by saying it is normal for 10% to be poor! We are talking about 10% of a majority that has not suffered through slavery or racial discrimination. Yet you seem mystified that the poverty rate for blacks is just over twice that percentage. You now ask if perhaps racism is the cause.

              But that is only back pedaling, because up to now you have insisted that it is more a matter of poor character, an unwillingness to conform, lack of morals, and poor parenting. Of course racism is the problem.  You, onhorseback, and Archie Bunker are trying to peddle the tired old narrative that black people are inferior, and unable to succeed like other races. Using your twisted logic, if Lee Hung Lo can immigrate and make it here in America, then there should be far less that 10% of white folks living in poverty.

              Unless you are willing to take the time to learn about the problem before seeking solutions, your time would be better spent playing golf.

              1. jackclee lm profile image75
                jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                It appears you miss  understood my comments again. I'm not sure you are doing this on purpose just to be confrontational. But here it goes, my last attempt to explain it to you.

                It is just a normal distribution in any group of people to have a bell curve. Which means there will be a small number in the high income bracket, a large number in the middle an a smaller number at the bottom. That is the 10% I spoke about. If you look at our history going back to the 1960s, the poverty rate sits about 10-12%. When I say it is higher for blacks, it is a fact. The poverty rate for blacks is too high. I then pose the question why? I did not make any statement about which is the cause. I just pose the question as either due to our racist past?  Or something else? Meaning there may  be other explanations.
                My person believe is that racism played a very small role. In the distant past, it may have played a much bigger role. However, our country has evolved and institutional racism is irradicated for the most part. There will always be individual racist and that is not controlled by any laws.
                In my humble opinion, it is the public policies of the great society of lyndon Johnson that lead to the current disparity. When you have entitlements that is tied to a single mother, it forces families apart. That is the primary cause of poverty in the black precincts.  Out of wedlock birth is 70%. How can things be good?

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Jackclee, while I don't agree with you on systematic racism, I certainly agree with you on the poverty programs.  They seem to be designed to keep people content getting what they are getting.

                  Field trips in schools provide an outside look for kids that can change their way of thinking.  In 2005 I took a group of students to Washington, DC.  When I see one of them, that is the first thing they remember.  I'm Facebook friends with several of them and very proud of the fact that they attended college and have professional careers.  When schools have to cut budgets, they cut the arts and field trips.  Those are fund activities and often a reason kids go to school.

                  My students would often say that teachers, especially white teachers, only came to the ghetto to get a check.  There were some teachers, but not all, who would say racist things.  We were going to do The Wiz.  A teacher said "that's for Black kids.  White kids can't be in that."  The majority of students in inner city schools in California are Hispanic.  This same teacher would make cracks about them "going back across the border."  Like police officers, administrators or any other person with authority, there are a few bad ones in the bunch.  That doesn't mean that they are all bad.

                  You mentioned politicians.  I don't think there is anything politicians can do other than make sure welfare programs require that people acquire skills that will help them get off of welfare after a certain time period and create an environment where it is businesses are given tax incentives to help people obtain employment. 

                  The community needs to be safe.  Schools should be strict on policies.  Businesses, churches, families should all work together to get to know neighbors by name.  Remove graffiti ASAP!

                  1. jackclee lm profile image75
                    jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Diana, you make a lot sense. Too bad more people don't see it that way.
                    Most politicians are corrupt. They spend 90% of their time fund raising. How much real work can they do?
                    I kep stressing the Constitution and a limited govenment for a very good reason.
                    We don't need more government bureaucracies. That does not mean things can't or won't get done.
                    There are alternatives such as local and non profit charities who often do a better job with less money because they have the right motivation.
                    Keep pushing and spread the word.
                    The status quo is not working and it is time to try something else.

                    1. dianetrotter profile image62
                      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      I get frustrated because a lot of people share my views but there is no coalition.  When I spoke to kis at school, I spoke to the whole class.  I didn't want to be perceived as favoring the Black students by having a special relationship  with them over other students.  You can't just talk at people and expect them to respond.  You have to build a relationship with them.  I think you and I talking and hashing out is proof of that.

                      I develop a relationship with kids then they want to hang out in my room all the time.  That would keep me from function with my advanced group or developing relationships with other students who need me.  The Chicago schools shows that a segregated school can produce scholars.  I went to an all Black school for elementary and junior high.  We didn't have special ways for teaching subjects or common core, etc.  We were respectful.  We were taught and we learned.

                      Today's situation is complicated by girls having babies too early in life, drugs, low/no morals and waaay too much emphasis on sex.

                      1. jackclee lm profile image75
                        jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        From what I can tell, you are a good teacher. We need more like you. Just curious of your opinion of the teachers's union. Most teachers I speak with in the NYC area hates the unions.

                2. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                  wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Marriage is not what pays the bills in a capitalist economy. What pays the bills is jobs that pay a decent wage. It's very simple. You apparently only understand one half of Lyndon Johnson's Great Society. First of all, a majority of people on welfare do not want to be on welfare. But the welfare buys food, and provides shelter. The average man, black or white, will not rise up against a government with a full belly and a place to lay his head. But a hungry man is more willing to fight.

                  The Great Society allowed whites to maintain the oppression of the growing black minority by keeping them unemployed, but docile and well fed. Otherwise, a growing black minority allowed to have economic parity with whites would threaten a system of white supremacy. What is happening in the inner city today is simply a program of oppression that has been going on since the end of the Civil War. Until this system of racist oppression is abolished, there will be no significant changes made in the condition of the black man in the inner city.

              2. michelleonly3 profile image96
                michelleonly3posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                You are making a lot of blanket statements without understanding how social systems operate in a country. Anytime you have a concentration of one race of people in an area, there are going to be problems. The real problem is that cities with high concentrations of minorities in an area are going to victimize each other. The solution is to break up the ghettos and disperse people to other areas. I once rode a bus from phoenix to imperial valley with one of the Bloods gang members sitting in front of me. We talked the entire ride. I asked him questions about joining a gang and why he did it. Because he was alone, he was willing to tell me all about his life. Now if someone had taken that kid out of that neighborhood at the age of 8 he could have become anything he wanted. Having a drug using mother and being in the projects, he didn't have a chance. So what is the answer? Break up concentrated minority populations. Diversity is the key to understanding. I have 9 kids, 6 adopted four racial backgrounds, and I love all my kids the same. The whitest of my children is engaged to a wonderful black girl, we spend time with her family (who I love). You can't fix anything with hate.

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  You're on the money about the kids in gangs.  I try to explain to people that kids underperforming in school is greatly impact, if not fully, by their home lives and neighborhood interaction.

                  When you isolate one and build a relationship you can mentor and encourage a child in spite of the circumstances.

                  My students loved to play The Line Game as shown on Freedom Writers.  I would do it at the beginning of the semester and sometimes the end.  Kids built positive bonds that minimized bullying and my room was a safe place for all of them.

                  1. michelleonly3 profile image96
                    michelleonly3posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Diane,
                    You are obviously part of the solution. Kids need good role models, and I think this is another part of the social issue. When a kid needs a good roll model and they see mom is a druggie and dad is in jail, they do not believe that they can escape the situation. And in all honest even the foster care system is riddled with  abuse and neglect. Programs like big brothers, big sisters are helpful yet we suffer from a lack of help in those programs. The reality is the people who want to help are barely making it themselves. Government programs are cannot teach love and encourage kids.

                2. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                  wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13168809.jpg

                  For your convenience I have included my previous post that you claim contains "blanket statements". Since you brought the issue to my attention, please identify those blanket statements.

                  What I understand is that in order to keep your narrative going you make statements that are contradictory. You make excuses for the poor white people by saying it is normal for 10% to be poor! We are talking about 10% of a MAJORITY that has not suffered through slavery or racial discrimination. Yet you seem mystified that the poverty rate for blacks is just over twice that percentage. You now ask if perhaps racism is the cause.

                  But that is only back pedaling, because up to now you have insisted that it is more a matter of poor character, an unwillingness to conform, lack of morals, and poor parenting. Of course racism is the problem.  You, onhorseback, and Archie Bunker are trying to peddle the tired old narrative that black people are inferior, and unable to succeed like other races. USING your twisted logic, if Lee Hung Lo can immigrate and make it here in America, then there should be far less that 10% of white folks living in poverty.

                  Unless you are willing to take the time to LEARN about the problem before seeking solutions, your time would be better spent playing golf.

                  1. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    I hadn't seen a post from you in a while.  I thought I was going to have to go through the post to hunt you down.

                    I went to YouTube and listened to some of your music.  It was very soothing.  Is it considered Native American?  Did I hear an instrument of Native American origini?

                    1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                      wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13169949.jpg

                      No, there are no Indigenous instruments used in my compositions, other than my voice. Most of what you hear is either acoustic or electric guitars or synthesizers. And the styles you hear are primarily European and African influenced. The Indigenous aspect of my character is perhaps evident in some of my lyrics, but overall, what I write is not traditional native music. Being a musician yourself, I am sure you understand the importance of music in the struggle against racism. It was through music that the black man was able to first openly rebel and deceive his white oppressors. Many of the Negro spirituals, such as "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" were used as code words, and communication between slaves and operatives of the underground railroad. The slaves were able to openly communicate with one another right in front of the evil European slavers, and no one was the wiser. This is a perfect example of how the arrogance of the racist can be used against him. Through music, the black man was also able to openly demonstrate, even during Jim Crow, that the perceived superiority of the white race was nothing but smoke and mirrors.

                      Scott Joplin not only succeeded as a musician and songwriter during the height of the Jim Crow era, but he is credited with being one of the first architects of the style known as "Ragtime", and his compositions, such as "The Entertainer", and "The Maple Leaf Rag" are still popular today. Many people mistakenly believe that racism is based on hate, but that is not true. Racism is based on a false sense of superiority and entitlement. And these provide the racist with a sense of security. It is when that security is threatened that the element of hate is introduced; first in an aggressive manner by the racist, and then as a defensive reaction by the oppressed. Scott Joplin was a genius, but unfortunately for the Sons of the Pioneers, he was not the exception, but he exemplified the rule! And you can see this played out across the board. Let us consider that once the racial barriers in the world of sports were broken down, the black man not only excelled , but in many cases dominated sports. And when we consider all of the musical innovations of the last 100+ years, we see a great majority of those contributions were made by the black race. From the simplistic emotional form of the Blues, to the musical sophistication of Jazz, the black race has dominated and influenced the musical tastes of people throughout the world for over a century!  We see this ability to be creative and to succeed manifested in the realm of business, and science and technology as well. And this has all been accomplished within an oppressive racist system. Just imagine what the black man and other minority groups could achieve in a truly free society.

                      But the racist American elite are not only powerful and intelligent, but they also have a good imagination. They can see that once the floodgates are completely opened that the white man will have to take a seat beside everyone else on the bus; not only sitting beside the African and the Indigenous, but in many cases also sitting behind them. And this vision is intolerable to the  racist mind. This is why a disproportionate number of blacks have been herded into the inner city ghettos; this is why corrupt government agencies, and the police, have been funneling drugs into the inner cities since before World War II; and this is why the racists have co-opted Planned Parenthood and are using it as a method of genocide to stem the black tide, for fear it will soon whelm them all. They are filled with hate now because their game is being exposed at every turn. And there is a growing unwillingness among the youth to accept the status quo, or to rest on the achievements of the great warriors who came before, when the white racists relentlessly continue in their efforts to turn back the clock, and "Make America Great Again!"

                      1. peoplepower73 profile image85
                        peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        As a wise man once said, "History is always written by the victors."  The victors in this case being the white man conquering the slaves and the Native Americans.  That’s why, you don’t read about their plight in school text books. 

                        I grew up in all white place, West Covina California.  In 1956, I was 17 1/2 and with my parent’s consent, I joined the United States Air Force.  After basic training in California, I was sent to Biloxi   Mississippi for electronic fundamentals and radar maintenance school. While growing up, I barely knew what the words prejudice and racists meant.  Since I was from CA, the southern white boys used to call me queer, because they would say, "There are only two things that come out of CA, queers and hot rods and I don't see any tail pipes coming out of your a**.”  Altogether, I spent 14 months there.  I saw the prejudice and racism first hand.  I saw the segregated bath rooms, separate drinking fountains for blacks, and black people riding in the back of the bus.  Everything was segregated including the news, they would always differentiate between black news and white news reports.

                        One day, a teenager named Emit Till was visiting from New York, he whistled at a white girl and was lynched shortly thereafter.  The joke was, "What is the fastest thing in Mississippi?  Answer, Emit Till riding a bicycle. 


                        I went to Japan with some of the same people I was stationed with.  A close friendship developed between a black airmen and white airmen. After a year on a remote radar site, we were given orders to return to the states to an air force base in Valdosta Georgia.  They both had to prepare for the return because they knew of the prejudice in the Deep South.   The black airmen had a car and was the boss of the white airmen.  But in order to not draw any attention to them, while driving into town, the white airmen drove the black airmen‘s car while the black airmen sat in the back seat.  Today, that would look silly, but back then, it was the proper thing to do.  I saw many acts of prejudice, and racism while in the Deep South in the 1950’s, that are still embedded in my mind.


                        When LBJ passed the Civil Rights Act, many of the Southern Democrats jumped ship and became Republican’s.  I believe that was the start of the new movement towards racism and to where it is today. We have the Tea Party patriots that want their country back and now Freedom Works, which is just an incarnation of the Tea Party, and the police shootings on both sides of the fence.  Yes, I believe all lives matter, but if you have compassion and empathy, then you can truly understand that black lives matter as well and it is the proper thing to do to differentiate their plight.

                      2. dianetrotter profile image62
                        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        I was really proud of the Williams' sisters for their excellence in tennis.  It was a surprise to see Simone (?) swimmer who won a medal at the Olympics.  My students used to love to sing "Follow the drinking gourd."

                        The Hispanic population is growing and will at some point be the majority population.  I wonder how that will impact race relations and other aspects of life here.

      31. profile image0
        ahorsebackposted 8 years ago

        As long as the younger generations in America today originate from a breeding of entitlement driven  social subcultures , as long as those younger generations of  people entering the work force wish to start at the CEO ' occupational  benefits ; as long as  we have an administration that has handed out  the benefits of lower income social  protections at RECORD levels ;   As long as in the American homes  our children are "spoiled " by  entitlement ,   lack of personal accountability  and "everyone starts out with the trophy already in hand :

        Calls for "Reparations "   will never end , Why ?

        Because ,Why should anyone sacrifice anything  for the better investment in their  future , for  an economic betterment of their family  or community  in traditional ways  By earning it ?...When it can be handed to you ?

        WE also have a presidential administration that has no one in it's numbers with  a business history or a military history ,   Who are they  ?   Highly  paid  social workers , intellectual social reformers  on steroids ,social  reconstructionist's .    No wonder we have devolved  into a welfare nation   bent upon   the economic "reparations " for one and for all !

        Who would the "reparations" come from and who deserves to receive them ?

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I believe Jackclee brought up reparations.  He was asking me what I thought about them.  Do you think I am seeking reparations.

          "breeding"  This is an interesting term because animals breed.  During slavery, Africans were considered animals.  In fact, slave owners did make the women have sex with men in order to bred stronger children. "Those younger generations entering the work force" are beginning to work.  Those are certainly not the ones you should worry about.  Worry about the ones without jobs.

          "Everyone starts out with the trophy in hand."  Who is everyone?

          ahorseback, it appears that you are stereotyping everyone to fit the narrative you are discussing.  I challenge you to name three people who have asked for reparations.  I don't know anyone.  It is my understanding that the slaves were promised land (The 40 acres and a mule)  " Freed people widely expected to legally claim 40 acres (16 ha) of land (a quarter-quarter section) and a mule after the end of the war, long after proclamations such as Sherman's Special Field Orders, No. 15 and the Freedmen's Bureau Act were explicitly reversed."  I picked that up from wikopedia.

          For people whose families work for 400 years under slavery for nothing (FREE), was it unreasonable to expect 40 acres of land and a mule to work themselves up to earn their own money?

          There were Africans involved in slavery.  They got their blood money and went on with their lives.  White men drug the slaves over to the us and didn't know what to do with them once they were freed.  They wanted to continue to treat them like animals which perpetuated a bad situation which had economic consequences of astronomical proportions.  It would have been better to give them 40 acres, a mule and respect than scorn, hatred and attempts to exterminate them by the KKK.

          You have a hard heart ahorseback.  When you can't acknowledge what is all around you on social media, in the goverment, in middle class neighborhoods, in classrooms and, yes, in the White House.  Many Black people have overcome in spite of racial hatred.

          1. wilderness profile image78
            wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            "Many Black people have overcome in spite of racial hatred."

            They have indeed.  Perhaps because that "racial hatred" is more perception on the part of those that don't succeed than it is a reality?

            1. peoplepower73 profile image85
              peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Wilderness:  Ask the black people that were shot as a result of hate crimes.  Ask the family of those that were shot what the reality is.

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Good point people!

              2. wilderness profile image78
                wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Perhaps we should ask the families of the cops in Dallas as well?

                People will hate, and people will be racist but that doesn't mean that others cannot succeed in spite of a few that would deny them.  If, however, those "others" decide that systemic racism is always going to hold them back, that the whole world is against them and preventing success, well, surprise!  They will never succeed.

                1. peoplepower73 profile image85
                  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  wilderness:  Who have you heard say that systemic racism is going to hold them back?

                  1. wilderness profile image78
                    wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Isn't that what it's all about?  The BLM, affirmative action, that blacks can't get good jobs, etc.?

                    Plus of course, Diane's comment that "Many Black people have overcome in spite of racial hatred.

                    1. dianetrotter profile image62
                      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      Many have.  Not all!

                      Welfare is a systemic problem.

                      There were systemic problems in Ferguson.  They need money, give more tickets.  The requirement to show identification before voting created problems.  As a matter of fact, it obviously required a certain type of identification.  I read that the requirements were relaxed in four states, including Texas, that require the identification.

                      There are different degrees of issues along the spectrum.  It is not a matter of either there is or there isn't.

                      Most police officers are good officers; however, there are some that are not.
                      When I speak of cases where I have problems with the officers, I do not include Ferguson.  I feel Mike Brown was outrageous to have just robbed a place, assaulted a clerk and THEN walk in the street after being told not to.  Everyone knew that police give tickets for walking in the middle of the street.  To do so, after committing a crime was super stupid.

                      HOWEVER, it is shameful that people vilified Trayvon Martin, lied on him and tried to come up with reasons why he should have been killed.  That was racism in full form.  They couldn't find any Black jurors and then the jury foreman was the wife of an attorney who was allowed to come in in and have lunch with her.

                      The police and community need to come together.  In many places, this is happening.  I just had a FB post on a group site.  The person was asking, "How can we as Christian musicians support Black Lives Matter"  I referred to the website and interviews I heard on social media to tell them why they should NOT support BLM.  Then I told how they should create their own effort to bring the community and police together, including churches, businesses, officers, local government officials and youth.  She wanted me to elaborate and I may be going to talk to the group.  I would like to get more opportunities.

                      When you have weak links in your armor, you weaken your position and impact.

                      1. wilderness profile image78
                        wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        Mike Brown was a thug, yes.  But Trayvon Martin?  Well, yes, he was a thug too, a thug with a record that attacked a man instead of talking to him.  That probably doesn't mean he should be killed, but attack an armed man and you WILL pay a price - it isn't a smart thing to do.

                        Black jurors - does any trial involving black people require special jury procedures?  In Zimmerman's case, are you trying to say that blacks will vote "guilty" based on skin color and should therefore be used?

                        One of the neatest pictures I've seen lately was a line of cops in front of a racially enraged mob...with a line of people (mostly black) in front of them, protecting the police.  It isn't the average black person causing the trouble - it is the hoodlums like Brown and the activists like Sharpton.  Without those two there would be little trouble.  It might take a decade or even two, but the troubles would die out.

                      2. jackclee lm profile image75
                        jackclee lmposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        Diana, I wrote a new hub that address some of the discussion here. I hope you take it on face value. I have no hidden agenda. Please respond in the comment section with any criticism or objections.
                        Let's start a real dialog and try to work towards a solutions.
                        I am not naive to think it would be solved in a short time. It will take time and perhaps even a generation. No reason not to start...Peace.
                        http://hubpages.com/politics/If-I-was-a … in-America

                    2. peoplepower73 profile image85
                      peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      Wilderness:  Uh, I think you missed the point or have the right wing definition.  Black Lives Matter is about the deaths of black people in killings by law enforcement officers, and broader issues of racial profiling, police brutality, and racial inequality in the United States criminal justice system.  It's about police killing innocent black people and after months and years of Grand Jury proceedings, the officers are not charged.  Yes there are crimes committed by white and black as well.  But when an unarmed black person is shot while trying to help an autistic person, I think outrage is justified, don't you?  That's just one example.  I'm sure you have heard of  many more.

                      1. wilderness profile image78
                        wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        You know better, you just don't want to talk about what the BLM has become.

                        http://hubpages.com/politics/forum/1373 … -statement

                        Here is their policy statement, all about giving blacks money and giving them their own little country inside America, with their own laws and own police. 

                        This isn't about police abuse, or profiling or racial inequality; it's about a group of racists promoting their race above all others.

                        And when you talk about an armed (armed from what the police knew) man pointing a gun and a bystander gets shot - well, it is inexcusable that they missed but it is NOT racist and it isn't about blacks.  It's just another excuse to scream RACISM! when there isn't any.

                  2. wilderness profile image78
                    wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Here.  Here is what the insanity has come to:

                    http://www.mediaite.com/online/federal- … arassment/

                    The EEOC has ruled that a cap with the "Don't Tread On Me" (revolutionary war motto) is "racial harassment" because the man that designed the motto kept slaves.  This is the kind of crap I refer to when I speak of blacks only perceiving that they are denied the opportunity to succeed - the idiot that complained will never succeed at anything because he's too busy finding reason to whine that someone is discriminating against him!

      32. peoplepower73 profile image85
        peoplepower73posted 8 years ago

        Wilderness:  O.K.  That's one instance and one person.  Are you going to apply that to the whole BLM  movement?  You don't know the person who complained.  He could be the CEO of a company.  But yet you call him an idiot. Flags are very powerful symbols of what people believe.  Do you think that the confederate battle flag should still be flown?  How about the idiots that wore white sheets and carried flags of the Christian Cross, while they torched peoples properties.   I guess they were O.K. to you.

        1. wilderness profile image78
          wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          He IS an idiot.  And so is the EEOC.  Anyone that thinks a revolutionary war flag, directed at the British, is racist is an idiot.

          That's the way it is.  That symbol has exactly nothing to do with skin color and we all know it - the idiot that complained is looking for offense in order to promote his own racist views.

          1. michelleonly3 profile image96
            michelleonly3posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Think about this, here you have a movement that could be doing a lot of good, they could be bringing people together to solve a problem, instead we see the back door emails of MLB telling people to burn places to the ground, kill people, and basically act like criminals. This behavior will never solve anything. If the goal is to have equality, this certainly is not the way. This is the road of the ignorant. Is the problem racial profiling? I've been pulled over for a tail light its not a big deal if you don't have illegal drugs in the car or aren't wanted for a crime. Let me also say that because my name is so common, I was also pulled over because a cop thought I was a suspect they were looking for. I did what I was told, he checked my ID and let me go. No big deal. Do I think there are bad cops,  of course their are bad cops. I don't think they are the majority, but to hear our media tell it, the cops are pulling an ok corral on every black person they see. This is irresponsible of the media, but its also irresponsible of the people who hear half a story and go on a crazed rampage killing people.

      33. profile image49
        Hummingbird Kisseposted 8 years ago

        The problem is No one wants to admit they are the issue of race. We all are. The all only created on race, the human race. If we turn our attention, our focus from it and its issues, it would die. We all manifest racial hate everyday, by feeding it with our detailed attention to it. We as a race must turn our focus and let it begin to diminish.I support a conscious unification movement. We must unify as a race. One race.

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Humming, it might work in theory; however, when racists kill people, you can't ignore it.  There are other things done that can't be ignored.  Rather than ignore it, we all should make a conscious efforts to not have the heart of racists.

          1. michelleonly3 profile image96
            michelleonly3posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            The implicit social bias test tells people if they are bias. People who are not racist do not understand any of this. They look at the whole thing like people have gone crazy. Which they have. A reasonable person can look at this and think what the hell is wrong with people? Yet everyone else thinks they have to take a side. How about the side of, people need to stop acting crazy. When I was in college I had to take the Harvard implicit association test, I'm not afraid to bring this up because it showed no social bias.  I had to write a paper about not having a social bias and it was boring. Other people in my class didn't fair so well. In all honestly I cant think of a race of people that makes me think "oh  don't like them". Everyday I have people who are everything from Indian (non native) to Oriental coming into my store. Having studied their cultures is helpful, but they are all nice people. The link to the test is below, I challenge everyone to take several of those tests and see if in fact you are the leaning tower of racism. Because until you know yourself you cant begin to understand others.

            https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Your data suggest a moderate positive automatic attitude toward Women.


              So am I a bad girl????

              1. michelleonly3 profile image96
                michelleonly3posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Now that is hilarious!

        2. Live to Learn profile image59
          Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Well said.

        3. Credence2 profile image82
          Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          What we need is the threat of an extraterrestrial invasion....

        4. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Speak for yourself. We all "do not" manifest racial hatred. People who fight against racism are part of the solution, not the problem. To suggest that people who stand against racism are racist is no different than suggesting a man who stands against the sexual abuse of women is a rapist, or that an advocate for the homeless is the cause of homelessness.

          Martin Luther King said "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it.He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it".

          Racism in America has always had a color, and that color is white. Pope Nicholas V who sanctioned racism through the Catholic church in the 15th century was white. The majority of slave owners in the U.S.were white. A majority of the people lynching blacks during Jim Crow were white. The people who stole the entire continent and killed the native populations were white. The people who forced the native populations onto reservations were white. The primary terrorists on this continent since 1492 have been white Christians. The people who invented the "one drop rule" were white. The people who created segregated, "white only" restrooms, restaurants, and other public establishments were white. The business owners and corporations that primarily discriminate against minorities when hiring, have been, and continue to be predominantly white.

          To suggest that black people, or any other minority have the capacity to be racist in a system of white supremacy is absurd. In order for racism to have any meaning, an individual must necessarily be a member of the majority. White families hold 90% of the national wealth, whereas blacks own 2.6% of the national wealth.Considering these percentages, it is not possible for a white person to feel the sting of racism, even if they are denied employment by a black employer because they are white. It is not possible because the majority of businesses are owned by whites, and so the odds of a white person encountering one racist black employer after another is slim to none. But when we consider the black man in America, just the opposite is true. Without the weight of systemic racism, the so-called "racism" of a minority individual directed at whites is about as "real" as having sex with a blow up doll!

          You speak of unification. But that always means unification under a European flag, with a European language  European customs, and a Eurocentric revisionist history. The fact that Columbus, who was a rapist, a murderer, a thief, and a pedophile is celebrated with a national holiday, is a prime example of "unification". No thanks.

          1. Live to Learn profile image59
            Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            It appears you entirely missed his point.

            1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
              wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              No, you are mistaken. I get the ridiculous point every time Pollyanna starts singing "We Are The World". Burying our head in the sand and hoping the problem will go away is beyond foolish, and takes us into the realm of insanity. I can't imagine a doctor telling a cancer patient: "Just ignore the brain tumor and it will most likely go away."  Or how about one cop saying to the other cop" I realize they are robbing the bank, but if we make it a big deal, it will only encourage more bank robberies. If we just ignore them, instead of making an arrest, after a while people will stop robbing banks."

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                +1

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Isolating the difficulty helps us solve problems.
                  So, What is the Difficulty?
                  what is the difficulty??????
                  Then we can go forward.

                  1. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Kathryn, that is the subject of great dispute.
                    1.  People (all races) should have fewer babies out of wedlock.  I do know several women who are raising children alone and doing an excellent job.  HOWEVER
                          a.  Children want a relationship with their fathers.
                          b.  It is cheaper to have a mother and father in a house than a single parent.
                          c.  Parents should not engage in illegal activity
                          d.  Parents should spend time with their children and instill values in them through the age of 18 and beyond.

                    2.  White people should not consider themselves smarter/better than Black people.
                          a.  I was promoted to a position, with an BBA and MBA, with some resistance.  The white secretary said, "They should have hired me for that job."  With a 12th grade education, she considered herself more qualified than me.

                    3.  Black people who have overcome obstacles and become educated, should mentor and encourage others to help them succeed.
                    4.  Black people should not raise their children to hate white people.
                    5.  White people should not raise their children to hate Black people.
                    6.  Education should include slavery in history books.  I can't remember any history book that showed the United States as being wrong.  It should not have happened but it did.  Tell what we learned from it and move on.
                          a.  White people should not be so sensitive when they hear the word "slavery."
                          b.  Black people should not be blame today's white people for what forefathers did.

                    This is a few thoughts.  We've got to get real and not blame "them."   (them being the other race)
                    I hear that the United States is the greatest nation in the world.  How much greater will we be if we don't hate or discriminate.

              2. Live to Learn profile image59
                Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                His point wasn't that one ignore the problem but to be part of the solution.

          2. michelleonly3 profile image96
            michelleonly3posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            wrenchBiscuit if that is your real name (joking). Everything you say is part of the problem. White people can be a minority in an area. Its not like we walk into a Latino neighborhood yelling "We run everything, stand back while I oppress you". I am MARRIED to a Native America man who has been mistaken for every race under the sun. No one ever thinks he is Native and he is ten times darker than my daughter in law who is half and half. TONS of people are in mixed race relationships They do not hate and oppress. You cant take the issues of a racist few and say "ALL these people are racist". Because I hear just as much racist BS coming from other people. ANYONE can be racist and the problem is that people like you refuse to see that. Racist is not about what race you are, its about hate. There is more of an attitude of oppression than actual oppression. Its how you attribute the outcome.
            Example:
            1. I got passed over for a promotion. Reasoning for being passed over: I'm a white girl and the office manager only promotes Latinos. Or I can be honest and know the other woman has been here longer and speaks Spanish which was a requirement.
            You see that you can look at these things differently, and people who choose to excuse a lack of knowledge, skill, or experience in an outcome use the cop out that it was racial. In life not everyone gets a trophy, not everyone makes the team. People take the low road. It's frustrating to watch. It's even more frustrating to have someone say the words "white supremacy". We are not in South Africa. Take responsibility for your choices.
            The interesting thing about racism in this country is that systems have been put in place to avoid it and we still have problems because people do not want to believe it. They use to give police officers and firefighters difficult tests prior to promotion, however because minorities sued the Chicago fire department saying basically that the test was too hard for them to advance, the entire test was changed to accommodate. I'm sorry but the the very heart of racial bias is believing someone is inferior based on race, why would you want them to alter a test? That is like saying "you are too stupid to pass so we made it easy for you". Its insulting, but instead of seeing it that way, now we have people in ranks they shouldn't be in because they couldn't pass the original test.. But please scream racism some more because, that is what will excuse all manner of horrific behaviors. Scream, inequality while you shoot a cop so that people listen and know that you are right. Your beliefs are the problem not the beliefs of millions of white people.

            1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
              wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Let's take one thing at a time. Everyone seems to be in a hurry these days, and I can't understand why since we are all going to the same place. Your strawman may be  quite convincing to some, but I have had a lot of practice. Please show me anywhere in this post, or anywhere else for that matter, where I claimed that all white people are racist. You are not the first to create and promote such a fiction, but so far no one can find the smoking gun. Maybe you can win the prize.

      34. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
        Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

        I think the difficulty is this: When a child is born, he absorbs, for the first six years, the environment he is born into. For instance, If he is born into the gang life-style, he will end up dressing in gang clothing, looking like trouble and expecting trouble. If a child is brought up with parents who are prejudiced, haughty and proud, he will absorb that attitude. If a child is raised in an environment where there is much poverty and a lack of food, he will not be able to go to school and may not even learn to read and write. If, however, education and school is available in the community, the child gets a good early education, he may later attend university and attain a career ... So attitudes, capabilities and awareness are really dependent on the early environment the child is raised in. How can we influence families in a direction of enlightenment?
        Well that is the big question.
        Widespread (Nation-wide) early education without oppression is the answer. And there is the new science.
        You're welcome.

        1. profile image0
          ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          And this is exactly where about half of Americans  have been raised , in the sub-cultures of  a thug mentality , entitlement driven parenting , get it for  free or we don't want to earn it ,  selfish   needs , wants and desires .
          And that's just the media .

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Kathryn, I disagree that it is half.  And that thug mentality is a product of the 70s and 80s when drugs spread across the land in poor communities and it became profitable to have more kids.

            When I grew up in a Black neighborhood, we had no locks on the doors for 22 years.  No one every broke in our house or stole anything from our open garage.

        2. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          good points Kathryn!

      35. khaliq khan profile image57
        khaliq khanposted 8 years ago

        iuyiyikjhkjhkuy8tyjghjmtyut7u

      36. profile image0
        ahorsebackposted 8 years ago

        Actually these comments and questions   in fact this whole thread is nothing but a race baiting agenda !
        Let me know when  a Real discussion  of race issues   comes to the forums , WITHOUT the agenda of baiting !

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          ahorse, it is a thread about discussing "race."  This case seemed very interesting because it was called Zimmerman2.    There was bitter divide over the Zimmerman case with many white people labeling him a thug.  After Zimmerman, got off scott free with money, he showed how violent he is.  I'm wondering if anyone would change their minds.

          Concrete examples should aid discussion.  What do you think we should be talking about?  Not being sarcastic.  I really would like to know.

          1. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            This case surrounding this shooting is even more horrific than thezimmerman case, but it is early and I have heard that an arrest was made. Let us see what charges are levied against this shooter.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Defense attorney said wait until all of the evidence is in.  He talked about how people formed opinions in prior cases without enough information.

      37. profile image0
        JG Hemlockposted 8 years ago

        Race baiting is just another snare. You are either for God or against Him. He is not concerned with 'color' so why should those who stand with God be?

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I'm still trying to figure out what race baiting is.  From the description, I would think it is trying to bait someone into a conversation about race.  No one told me that.  I've just heard the term a lot.

      38. profile image0
        ahorsebackposted 8 years ago

        Race baiting is a huge part of these problems today .     Race baiting is a twisted media  and political game play  to divert the attentions of the public to encourage looking in the other direction while political entities deny  the causes and affects of their own  incompetent involvement .  Clinton is a race baiter  for one , using  it to gain a few more votes for her and against Trump .

        Democrats have  all but destroyed inner city minority neighborhoods for  nearly a hundred years by controlling and addicting the populace to entitlement programs and misspending  the billions of allocated funds for education , for crime control , for social justice and reforms !

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Anyone who thinks the so-called "entitlement programs" have destroyed the inner cities is operating from a racist viewpoint. The simple truth is that a majority of poor people,regardless of race, would rather work for a living than to receive hand-outs. It is a racist myth that black people living in the inner city are lazy and lack motivation. The Easter bunny doesn't exist either.

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I am a little unclear on "entitlement" programs.  I looked it up and came up with a list from wikipedia.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_pr … ted_States 

            I was surprised to see how many different things are listed and I don't know what many of them are for.  Sorry guys!  This is the teacher in me.  I do believe we can have a more productive discussion with we know what is meant by entitlement programs.

            To me, entitlement means you "deserve" or "earned" it.

            If social security is entitlement, all of us who paid into it are entitled to it.  Social security does not show on the entitlements budgeted...unless I overlooked it.  HOWEVER, SSI/old age assistance is there.  I know people who are disabled getting SSI.  Example:  my 31 year old niece who has temporal lobe damage and Turner's Syndrome among other problems.  She fits the intended purpose.  I see many, many lawyers advertising how they have success helping people.  If you look at the judge shows, there are many people who have not worked and are on SSI.  Often those situations are dicey.  Judge Judy surely doesn't appreciate it.
            I'm not sure how old age assistance works.

            There is so much covered under entitlements, I can't speak of all of them at once.  There are possibly programs that could be cut and sure most should be monitored better.

            With respect to welfare, there is nothing wrong with getting temporary assistance.  A woman should not have 4+ children with 2+ fathers and be on welfare.  This is not true in every case.  From teaching, I have seen this happen.  The program should be monitored and women should be put on the path to work.  Businesses can be given tax breaks (better than welfare) to train and employee people from the welfare list (welfare-to-work).  I'm sure there is a lot of fat in the program but it should be dealt with.  Numerically, there are more white people on welfare than Blacks.  If businesses do not discriminate, the percentage of Blacks on welfare could go down.

            There are other programs that I will look at and touch on as I get the opportunity.

            1. Credence2 profile image82
              Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

              You have already touched on a lot. There is a lot SSDI ab
              use in Appalachia, West Virginia and Eastern Tennessee. Don't think that a great deal of blacks live there. It is irritating how conservatives paint this picture of Minorities abusing these programs, solely. When I was in Panama, we knew people (Americans)in nearby Equador that were using the SSD as a sole source of income, in a reduced cost of living area.

              Where are the so called urban enterprise zones, providing businesses tax incentives and subsidies to hire folks from underserved areas?
              Itis cheaper to keep certain people on welfare than to take the effort to insist upon work, removing all possible excuses for able bodied people not to work.
              For example, while eligible welfare recipients are working in child care, the other recipient,
              could be working having the normal cost of child care subsidized.

              The fat and waste needs to be removed from all social services programs, but the abuse of which is not confined to Minority groups. There are larger percentages of Minorities on these programs, but they are more often poorer and eligible. But with so many Anglos on the program, I don't that anybody is in a position to talk or complain.

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                If I hear Donald Trump say, "African American Community" one more time.  He sounds very condescending to me.  I can't wait to hear what Tara Setamayer says about this.

                I don't know if you went to the link or not but there are goo gobs of programs I didn't know are entitlements.  You know when agencies go in to implement enterprise zones there is a lot of corruption.

                I just got in from church and am hearing re-play of Trump I suppose.  I've got to marinade on this.  More tomorrow.

                1. profile image0
                  ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Tell us all exactly what  black people in America want to be called  if you will ? 

                  There is one thing  that all , especially  conservative America is growing extremely tired of  , That is the fact that Political Correctness rules the media  , ALL of it .  I have been in these forums for years  and there is one thing I've grown  really tired of  , it's that each person seems to have a different idea of what to be called !     If "African American Community " offends you  ,then  tell us what we are supposed to use ...."Native American " , seems to be another one that offends  everyone  but those who use the term .   For those of use who are all of a  mixed  DNA  , the  divisive use of such language itself is offensive .

                  We are ALL suppose to look beyond the physical features of our  community members and yet . It would truly be amazing if that  habit were reciprocal  by all  , especially  today , especially  given the volatile nature of todays  media and political environment ,      In some  communities there is a  horrible  habit of using one language  in public and another in private  , I have seen this in rural America  and witnessed it in the  urban areas  I have lived in as well  .

                  It seems to me that the immediate response by  all too many is to be offended  by ANYTHING of  terminology  being used , any term to describe  anything or anybody . If you ask me  EVERYONE  will have to grow up !  AND ,Grow up a lot , especially younger generations , 

                  If  you TRULY  wanted a mature discussion of race ,  you might begin by  dropping the  divisiveness and P.C. language  of being "offended " at every turn  ,   and IF that matters to you and I  then it applies to Trump as well .

                  My advice , Want to discuss " race in a productive manner " ?, Then act it .

                  1. peoplepower73 profile image85
                    peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    ahorseback:  I believe you are a white conservative racists.  Now don't be offended.  How do you like that?  The reality is we are all of one race.  It's called the human race.  As humans we are wired to recognize differences in each other.  It's in our DNA and we are all racists in that regard.  I'm sure you have thought and called people of any difference one thing in your mind or with your friends and something else in public.  We all do it. We all put labels on people by their race.  It is not a matter of the labels or asking them what they want to be called.  It is a matter of attitude.  it is a matter of looking beyond the labels and looking beyond categorizing people into certain boxes.  It is a matter of empathy.  It is very simplistic to ask people what would you like to be called to be Politically Correct?  Sure you are tired of it.  Have you ever stopped to think how black people feel?

                    As you know there are good and bad in every race and in every group.  There are good cops and there are bad cops.  There are even cops that are racists.  it is those racist cops that are what Black Lives Matter is a about.  To deny that is to just look the other way. 

                    One of the problems, the police have is the Use of Force Triangle that they have adopted from the military.  If a person does not comply with the what the cop is asking, they can escalate the use of force up to it being lethal and/or do it immediately,  if they feel or sense their lives or someone else's life is endangered. In some cases, it is justified. In others it is not.  It is those cases where it is not justified,  Black Lives Matter. 

                    It's those cases where the officers are put on administrative leave and the case is turned over to a grand jury that takes months or years to reach a verdict and then the officers is found innocent.  That's where Black Lives Matter. Law enforcement has the Fraternal Order of Police that have lawyers at their beckon call to adjudicate these cases and the officers in question are in almost every case are found innocent.   That's where Black Lives Matter.  Sure as WASPs say," all lives matter", but Black Lives Matter as well, especially to black people or what ever you want to call them to be Politically Correct.  See I used the term WASP, White Anglo Saxon Protestant. I put all white people into a box.

                  2. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    I addressed the "African American community" last week.  Is there a "white community"?  What are the characteristics of a "community?"

                    Trump went to speak about the problems in Milwaukee and solicit support.  He was not in Milwaukee.  He was in West Bend, 90% white.  Usually the audience is panned.  I did not see one picture of the audience.

                    The subjects was the "crooks" and the "victims."  The discussion was geared toward the whole African American community and not Milwaukee or even inner city areas where there are community/policing problems.  He did rush to judgment and say that the police are always right.  I agree that they are right in many instances and DEFINITELY write about Milwaukee last week.

                    I would prefer that he get a think tank of African Americans from all walks of life to give input on how problems should be addresssed.  After all, we do have relatives in the inner city, victims, perpetrators and those who are fortunate enough to stay out of the fray.

                    Call me Black (from the 60s), African American, Colored (from the 50s), negro (from slavery) and I'm ok.  I agree with you about what should we be called. I don't know who's driving the name game.  White people are white people.

                    Thanks for the talking point ahorse!

                    1. wilderness profile image78
                      wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      "What are the characteristics of a "community?"

                      Typically a small group of people that represent that they are the voice and mind of a much larger group.  If you spoke to 1,000 people (quite a large group), you were talking to 0.000024 of the black population - it's rather difficult to think that they actually represent much more than the 1,000 member group you spoke to.

                      But politicians - I doubt there has ever been a politician that didn't speak for the "American people".  Somehow they all know that the "American People" (surely a "community") want exactly what the politician is promising.  And whether they are talking in a TV debate or to a 100 person per plate dinner they are all talking to the "American People".  Just empty political rhetoric, then.

                    2. wilderness profile image78
                      wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      "I would prefer that he get a think tank of African Americans from all walks of life to give input on how problems should be addresssed."

                      Why?  Do you not think that a Hispanic person can have any insights?  Do you not think that an oriental or white should have a say in what happens in the country?  Do you truly think that some gang kid from the ghetto that dropped out of school in the 8th grade will have anything worthwhile to offer?

                      Better, I think, to simply take people familiar with the problems regardless of race, and people likely to be a part of solutions (business, maybe, and teachers and cops).  Probably wise to include at least some blacks, but mostly as a sop to the racists that think every government committee has to have representatives of their particular race in order to "protect" themselves.

                      It has been my experience that the people that demand that only their race (or other group) produce answers to group problems are interested only in getting money and/or other concessions from other races.  Not in putting forth any real group effort to solve problems.  And they are perhaps the greatest racists of all, forever blaming someone else instead of working for change within their group.

                      It will take people of ALL races to provide solutions for racial problems in our country, not just one of them.

      39. profile image0
        ahorsebackposted 8 years ago

        Media ,  Media and Media , all three  of these causes are THE problem today .    Inciting   divide ,  fanning the flames  of  even slightly differing political  ideology ,  racism ,  gender wars ,  you name it  , Our most major hurdle to cross when it comes to our  ideological differences  in America   is the war that is being fought between the media's profiteering , sensationalizing  agenda and the reality of America's  social construct which for the most part  is perfectly normal .

        I believe that , as usual ,  once this election is over  , there will be a return to "normal"  in our media  ,     riots will chill down ,   the media will go back into it's hole into the sewers ,  younger voters who profess themselves as social activist's will mature  ,  even slightly , while the political rhetoric , born of university teachings , goes quietly back to the  drawing boards within the ivory towers .

        Will  the divide created by an uncaring administration heal ?   I wonder .

      40. IslandBites profile image68
        IslandBitesposted 8 years ago

        An interracial couple was attacked after a self-proclaimed white supremacist saw them kissing outside a Washington restaurant, police said.

        "The suspect spouted white supremacist sayings and made many many references to racist things," she said.
        Rowe also complained about the Black Lives Matter movement, and had tattoos that said 'Skinhead' and 'White Power,' Wohl said.

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          The poor we will always have with uss and, unfortunately, the racists.  I assume Rowe was the white supremacist.  Do you have a website for that?  Thank you!

          1. IslandBites profile image68
            IslandBitesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            “He begins talking about Donald Trump rallies and attacking people at the Black Lives Matter protest.”

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos … a8dc986923

            http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/20/us/ol … index.html

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Well, I'm now hearing the possibility of Trump/Bannon/Ailes forming a network after the elections.  That is quite scary.  If this can happen from listening to a few speeches, imagine daily garbage spewed to insight attacks.

      41. profile image0
        ahorsebackposted 8 years ago

        Interesting that the sensitivity to  racism  doesn't include the hypocrisy of racism  from the left in politics .  For instance ,  when Hillary   runs to the side of the sinking boat and pleas to those of other races for votes because  "........In everything I've ever done , I have always looked out for the interests of minorities ......................"  and then does nothing  except compile the votes . One who's had a 30 year history of doing nothing , heck .........for anyone but herself..

        Is that racism too ?
        No ?  ........right !

      42. profile image0
        ahorsebackposted 8 years ago

        One might have asked why democrats are and have been so  so negative about the advancement of blacks in America , slavery , civil rights , affirmative action ,   economically captured inner cities of minority  slums ,  Look at the history -  no , Read History , you will see that democrats have stood at every juncture  of possible advancements .

        Look at the blockades of advancement  of anything BUT a collective socialist tax grubbing nanny state  directives , you will see democrat "leaders " at every  roadblock.

        Read your history !

        1. colorfulone profile image80
          colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          It was LBJ who said he would have N****s voting Democrat for the next 200 years.  Now, the Democrats take it for grated that they will have the black votes and so that don't have a reason to produce, and they haven't. 

          The first black members of the US House and Senate were Republicans. The first civil rights legislation came from Republicans. Democrats gave us the KKK, Jim Crow, lynchings, poll taxes, literacy tests, and failed policies like the “Great Society.”

          Republican President Eisenhower ordered troops to enforce school desegregation. Republican Senator Everett Dirksen enabled the 1964 civil rights legislation to pass, in opposition to Democrat Senators Robert Byrd (KKK Grand Wizard) and Al Gore, Sr.


          According to http://clashdaily.com/2014/03/allen-wes … 200-years/

          Black history is American history.  Its time we all fight for every last child in this country to have a better and brighter future, equally.  Its time to come off the Democratic plantations and reservations.

          1. profile image0
            PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            LOL,, you know your point is questionable when you have to reach back almost 40 years for supporting evidence.

            1. colorfulone profile image80
              colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Forty years later we have more poverty, racism, and militarism.  Barack Obama, our Black President of HOPE and CHANGE has not changed one dot or tittle, no revision. Or, have I missed something great?  I feel betrayed and I'm not black...but I had some false-hope for about two years after he took office.  Nothing changed for our Black American communities, except to spiral downward and sometimes out of control.

              History repeats itself!  Not funny.

              1. profile image0
                PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                The poverty rate is somewhat higher, but do you really believe racism is more prevalent than it was 40 years ago? And what do you even mean by militarism, what does it have to do with your original point, and how would you measure it to know that it has increased?

                I await your clearly stated, legitimately sourced, fact-based response.

              2. colorfulone profile image80
                colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I just saw that leftists (edited) would support Obama giving African-Americans a 10% tax break.  I don’t think giving one ethnicity a tax break would be a step in the right direction. It would create more division.  But, I would be happy for those that it would actually help, I will rejoice with those who rejoice.

                1. Credence2 profile image82
                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Tax breaks for blacks? Where did you see that, link please?

                  1. colorfulone profile image80
                    colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Mark Dice, likes to go out and ask people made up questions to get their reactions.  Its really comical sometimes because he exposes how out of touch the average person on the streets are.
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNk4zhoG0ec

                    1. Credence2 profile image82
                      Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      Perhaps, but this is not a reputable source. Who can accuse Obama of such a thing based on the musings of some rightwing crank?

                      So this crank talks to a few people on the street and edited whatever he did not like, of what significance is it?

                    2. colorfulone profile image80
                      colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      PP, I posted the link here.   roll

                      I don't care to in-gauge in petty bickering with anyone.
                      http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13159545.jpg
                      I love Ben Carson's common sense logic and honesty.

                      1. profile image0
                        PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        A youtube video of some random dude making a random assertion and asking random people questions about that assertion is not valid evidence.  It is not data.  It is not criteria for making an assertion that leftists would support a 10% tax cut for blacks only.

                        My Gawd, is this how you make your decisions about politics and for whom to vote?  You and so many others?  I'm sorry, but I can only laugh or I would be bawling my eyes out over the utter _______ of it all.

                        Edited to add:  Discussing the validity of your assertions is not petty bickering.  It's called getting down to the truth.

                    3. colorfulone profile image80
                      colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      I see the humor in this.  Dice does this kind of investigative polling on the streets all the time, its what he does. He really does reveal how out of touch the average person on the streets are, mostly leftists.   Talk about low information dumb downed America.

                      Mark Dice on YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/user/MarkDice

                      See:  Liberals Fear Trump Will BAN TAMPONS if He Wins Election
                      Its funny!

                      1. profile image0
                        PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        LOL, that is not "investigative polling."  Any doofus can go around asking stupid questions and edit a video to make people look as stupid as he is.  The fact you are calling it "investigative polling" is what's funny.

                2. profile image0
                  PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Typical non-answer from you.  And no source for your assertion, which I am 99% certain is fabricated, either by you or some similarly fact-challenged "news" source.

      43. Missing Link profile image67
        Missing Linkposted 8 years ago

        because some are too emotional and can't handle it.

        I can't handle it cause I am so weary of it---I'm white

        the issue has been pervasive my entire life so I'm just tired of it---was tired of it long ago

        most people can talk about it

      44. profile image0
        ahorsebackposted 8 years ago

        Diane  , The only way any neighborhood can be  reclaimed to  order  IS from within .      I remember well   back in the 1960's a couple of instances where my own mother did exactly the same thing .    What clown wants to be dissed by his own momma in front of his buddies ?   None ,     maybe .....just maybe it could work !

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          ahorse,  Thank you!  It is good when people can meet on common ground.  This is but one component of what it takes to turn the inner cities around.

          1.  Gentrification - is viewed by many as a bad idea.  I think it should be used to improve the community.  The tax base will go up providing more money for the community.

          2.  Elderly people should not lose their homes if they are able to stay there.  Their taxes should not be raised.

          3.  Community-based policing - The police officers should be involved, and possibly live, in the community.  That should alleviate some of the distrust.  Officers will get to know community by familiarity and, hopefully, by name.

          4.  Large businesses that provide needed resources (grocery store, drug store, clothing, etc.) should have anchor stores in the community and employ community members.

                One of my friends argues, "They will run the small businesses out."  I looked around and said, "WHAT small businesses?"

      45. Say Yes To Life profile image82
        Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years ago

        Slavery ended over a century and a half ago.  How many of you have met an African American slave?  NONE!!!

        I suppose in some ways, I may be spoiled.  I was born in Oakland, CA in 1960, and raised there.  I have had very little experience with racism, and most of what I've dealt with was based on people simply not knowing any better.  Ignorance is easily dealt with - just simply give them knowledge.  Some of my experiences have actually been funny.  Never have I encountered "White" and "Colored" segregation - most likely, because I have never visited the South, except for a brief subway stop in Richmond, VA from Washington, DC.

        What I have dealt with was a constant barrage of black-on-black crime.  That is why I tore out of Oakland like a bat out of hell soon as I turned 18.  Since that time, things have gotten much worse.  This, in my opinion, is the truly sensitive subject.  You hear a lot nowadays about white cops shooting unarmed black men, but the vast majority of the time, when a black man is murdered, it is done by another black man.

        I have recently stumbled across this site:

        https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1095599/

        Stormfront is a white supremacist site run by a criminal, but it is important for blacks to know what is being said about them.  This is the REAL issue we need to be dealing with - NOT something that ended well over a century ago!

        P.S.  Regarding reparations - that needs to be VERY carefully considered!  Rodney King blew $3.7 million - obviously, that was no help to his daughters!

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Say yes, that is one of many scary sites.  It does validate the point that RACISM does exist.  Many can say "I'm not a racist" and they well may not be but racism is alive in the USA.

          That is my problem about saying "African American community."  It's a tendency to say "all" or "non."  It usually leads to stereotyping.

          This is the first time I'm seen you post.  Please continue!  Thank you!

        2. Credence2 profile image82
          Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Strange coincidence, Yoleen, I was born in Oakland and lived for 3 years on the Big Island, are you near Kona or Hilo? How have things been since Madame Pele has had a fit?

          1. Say Yes To Life profile image82
            Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, it is a strange coincidence!  I live in Hilo.  We get occasional vog, but for the most part, Madame Pele hasn't changed things.  We just have to take a different route to view her.

            1. Credence2 profile image82
              Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Good to hear, we lived in Pahoa,  the place where all the aged hippies, from the 'Summer of Love' in San Francisco were all over. Our favorite place was "Ken's Pancake House" in Hilo. It really improved itself over the years we were there. The routine shopping included, the sole Walmart and the relatively new Target store, next door.

              While I don't miss the horrendous cost of living. There is a spiritual aura about the place that is lacking here, in Central Florida, I miss that. That might explain why I have always had no issues with crime in the area.

              1. Say Yes To Life profile image82
                Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Yes, the people are very mellow here.  I understand they also know how to deal with invading gangsters.  There was an infiltration about 20 years ago, and they put an immediate halt to it.

                From what I've heard about Florida, I don't envy you living there!

                1. Credence2 profile image82
                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Not familiar, gangsters?

                  1. Say Yes To Life profile image82
                    Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    They were here 20 years ago.  They didn't last long; the community rallied around, educated the kids about the realities of joining a gang, and the gangsters who were not arrested and deported "disappeared".

                    1. dianetrotter profile image62
                      dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      I tried  to find the original post.  I assume gangsters was a specific gang.

                      1. Say Yes To Life profile image82
                        Say Yes To Lifeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        There were several.  I don't know their names, but they engaged in turf wars.  Hawaiians DEFINITELY don't need that element here, and I back them FULLY!!!

                    2. Credence2 profile image82
                      Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      There were never many African-americans on the Big Island of Hawaii, as I understand it. So, I don't know where the invader gang bangers came from? Salt Lake had a gang problem for a while, but most of those participants were Vietnamese!!

                      1. dianetrotter profile image62
                        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        Say yes, I didn't know what a Samoan was for a long time.  A lady I worked with said, "Samoans are really big.  I'm more afraid of them than Black people."  I was taken back but didn't get mad.

                        When I started teaching in San Bernardino, I started having Samoan students.  They were some of the most talented students I ever had.  I never met one who couldn't sing.  The dancing!!!  They asked me to be advisor for the Polynesian Club.  My classroom was the place to be after school.  Every Polynesian kid would hang out in my room with other kids.  When new Polynesian kids came to campus they knew to look me up.

                        There were racial problems on campus sometimes.  The Poynesian kids and Black kids would support each other in fighting against Mexican students.  That was very frightening.  I don't know if there is any racial tension in Hawaii but, for some reason, the Polynesian kids blend in with the Black kids here.

                      2. dianetrotter profile image62
                        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        Credence, are you in Utah?

      46. profile image0
        PrettyPantherposted 8 years ago

        Just popping in to say I am learning a lot from reading responses here, particularly from the credence/diane exchange but also from others.  Thank you for taking the time to go into such depth.

        1. Credence2 profile image82
          Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Thank you, Panther, for your interest and attention....

        2. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Thank you PP!

      47. Live to Learn profile image59
        Live to Learnposted 8 years ago

        All of this talk about white people stealing land here in America. I'd love to see a world map of how it would be if every person since 1492 had just stayed in their country of origin without sending out any expeditions, armies or settlers. We should probably also tack on a prohibition of sharing technology and medical breakthroughs. Wouldn't want to be accused of helping. Helping could be construed as a hindrance.  Although that would remove peanut butter from the American table. That would be sad.

        I do believe, all in all, the great American experiment in freedom has been beneficial to society.

        1. wilderness profile image78
          wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          We would likely be worshiping Quetzalcoatl, the Aztec god of civilization.  Although far behind that of Europe, the technology of the Aztecs was considerably more advanced than anything in North America, and the Aztecs were a warrior people, conquering their neighbors just as they would eventually fall to Cortez and the Europeans.

          It's interesting to speculate just why the North American natives never developed beyond a stone age civilization.  Because the environment/climate was too harsh, requiring too much effort to just survive?  Too easy, providing no incentive to advance?  Was the land mass too large, allowing tribes to simply move away from neighbors rather than competing with them (the Aztecs, for instance, had only a relatively narrow strip to live on, as did the Incans)? 

          Whatever the reason, though, it seems inevitable that North American peoples would fall to better technology, whether from South America, Europe or even the far east.  A civilization that far behind the rest of the world cannot survive.

        2. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I don't see a problem with a person choosing to be an indentured servant.  That is an agreement between two people.

          It is my understanding that when Europeans first came, the Native Americans welcomed them with open arms.  There should have been some discussion on how to make America great for all people without any group being disenfranchised or taken advantage of.

          1. Live to Learn profile image59
            Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Well, sure. That was certainly the way of the world back then. All peoples just showed up, en masse, in other countries and said 'hey, let's all just share the space'.

      48. peoplepower73 profile image85
        peoplepower73posted 8 years ago

        Live to Learn:  I wrote a hub on Why Wars are waged?.  I have been told it was for economic reasons, but after doing research and analysis, I found the root cause is to either protect the territory, you already have and/or to gain new territory, in the name of some higher spirit, and to spread the gene pool. The rest of what you just said, is the fall out from those three factors.  I know we are not supposed to promote our own hubs, but in this case I think it warranted.  Here is the link.

        http://hubpages.com/politics/The-Three- … -are-Waged

        1. Live to Learn profile image59
          Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Then I have either misunderstood your argument or you need to adjust it. You stated that native Americans didn't own land. You then stated that prior to the arrival of the Europeans the native Americans waged war with one another. Now you are stating that people wage war to 'protect the territory, you already have and/or to gain new territory, in the name of some higher spirit, and to spread the gene pool.'

          So, you are basically saying that wars were already being waged on North American soil for the same reasons the settlers waged war. Out of curiosity how is it acceptable for some nations to wage war for particular reasons and not for other nations? Or, is it just that the one who wages the most successful war is somehow guilty? If the Sioux took land from the Comanche is that more morally acceptable than the white settlers doing the same? If so, why? Just because they started from a location further removed from the area?

          1. colorfulone profile image80
            colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Before the settlers came to North America, slavery already existed among the different native tribes.

            1. Live to Learn profile image59
              Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Among some, yes. That doesn't in any way negate the horror that the blacks went through during that period of American history. I suppose the fact that we had a written language and documented the atrocities makes it different to some. The fact that blacks sold blacks into slavery on the African continent doesn't negate the horror. There is enough blame to go around but it appears it is so much easier to just blame white folks for all of the ills of the world during our past. Kind of like blaming current Christians for the wrongs committed in the name of religion over the years.

              I find it mind boggling that people who are well educated, probably have good jobs and live in decent communities still want to cry victim and make racist statements about white people but can't see how racist their comments are. It makes it difficult to find reason to attempt to understand another point of view. If anyone expressed views about any other race like they are expressed about white people in our society they would be immediately labeled racist but white people are expected to just sit and take it or they are labeled racist for pointing out the hypocrisy.

              1. colorfulone profile image80
                colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                The globalist social engineers are obsessed with creating false memes, false trends, that they control to create a population of trendies from those false trends that don't have their own destiny, who don't a have a basic organic human genetic drive to build something that is satisfying.

                They want to over throw the West. That's whites and Christians basically. They that are of the world are not of God, Satan is the god of this world. They hate Jesus, and anyone who is of God.  Yes, Christians, (whites any color) are being persecuted, but we were foretold of it.   
                Exciting times we are in. 

                "He who controls the trend, controls the future. He who controls the future, controls the destiny of humanity."  If you understand this paradigm you understand the rest.

                1. Live to Learn profile image59
                  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Not sure I can go so far as to agree with all of that.

              2. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I think association of white people with slavery here in the US is because that is how most Africans got to the United States.


                Cries of racism
                When I asked about why people would be upset with Michelle Obama it was because I saw no racism in what she said.  It was a reason to rejoice and be hopeful.

                The calamity for educated Black people is the apparent taboo to mention slavery in any sense.  When doing family research, it takes us to slavery.  Without a lot of time-consuming research, we can't get passed slavery.  At the point of dna testing, we find that many, many of our ancestors are white.

                I can understand not wanting people to ask you to apologize or hold you responsible for what happened.  At the same time, I don't understand why any mention of slavery whatsoever is considered race baiting.

                1. Live to Learn profile image59
                  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I've never implied that conversations on slavery is race baiting. It is a part of our history that we should explore. We should never pretend that it didn't happen. However, when I have a person of color flat out say that 'white folk' can't be expected to understand that, to me, is racist also. White folk, as that is put lumps all people of a certain skin tone into one neat category to lay blame on for past sins. I hate to say this but many, many of the white skinned people in this country can't trace their ancestry on this continent back but so far. But, hey. They are white so are somehow to blame for all perceived injustices by some. I don't have any problem with blacks choosing to identify as a skin tone. That is freedom of choice. But, I don't identify as 'white'. It, in my opinion, is ignorant. I'm not really white. Except for maybe my legs. I didn't get a chance to get to the beach this year.

                  Edit. Thought i would add one thought. We should study our history but sometimes this conversation seems to be bogged down in it. History serves a valuable function but we can't make a better future if we can't let go of the past. I don't know anything about my ancestors 150 years ago and back. I honestly don't care. It's in the past.

                  1. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    I hope I didn't say you per se.  If I did, I made the very mistake I try so hard to not make.  I don't think a group should be painted with a broad brush.

                    My question about race baiting was because the good old boy on Fox (forgot his name) and others were on social media and in news media complaining about the race baiting.  I was asking the question for someone/anyone to explain it to me.  It kind of reminds me of the bigot thing between Trump and HRC.  Trump has made up his on definition for bigot.

                    It's complicated.  We know it.  We are responsible, individually, to process information and attribute it to the right source(s).  There is no legitimacy or validity when we say "all" or "none" when it is really "some."

                    1. Live to Learn profile image59
                      Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      I apologize also. I wondered why the question but thought it must have come from my getting snippy with another hubber for what I considered to be a racist statement. I don't watch Fox so I'm not certain I can answer the question.

          2. peoplepower73 profile image85
            peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Live to learn:  Did you even read my hub?

            1. Live to Learn profile image59
              Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Are you unwilling to answer the questions?

          3. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            You should not do something wrong because someone else does.  Remember, don't follow the crowd!

            1. Live to Learn profile image59
              Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              We are hundreds of years removed. That was the way of the world then. I don't know that anyone did anything 'wrong' anymore than 'right' for the level of civilization at the time.

              We can all look at it and say we wouldn't do it. Now. Now is not then.

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                It would be great if we all would not do it now.  There are people that would.  NOT YOU!!!

                Have you experienced trolls on online articles?  Some have racist monikers (step n fetchit, some symbol generally associated with black people) and they post really racist, terroristic, and scary comments.

                The article could be about a birthday party.  Then the troll makes a comment about how Obama caused it or use vernacular which is supposed to sound like it is a Black person talking.  Leslie Jones has been harrassed so much on Twitter that the president has made rules to disallow participation.  There is an Alt Right guy that posts to Breibart often who has been banished from the site forever!!!

                What makes people so cruel and mean-spirited?  I don't know.  They bully, bully, bully.

                1. Live to Learn profile image59
                  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I've always been of the opinion that the really, really obnoxious trolls are acting the part of the type of person they don't like. Like the ultra conservative Christians aren't really that but they are atheist liberals and vice versa. I don't, personally, believe that anyone is that radical and mean.

                  Although, there was a time I thought it might be possible that cyberspace had gotten entangled with Hilbert space and we were somehow talking to people in alternate universes.

                  1. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Come on man!!!  You see ISIS cutting people's heads off live.  I saw that pilot being burned inside that cage.

                    It would be wonderful if we all had a similar line over which we would not cross but that is not true.  I know you wouldn't kill someone and start eating the person's face.  It's in the news now that a college student did that.

                    Drug kingpins send drugs into communities to be sold to children.  There are human traffickers that sell children.

                    There are people that do horrible things in this world.

                    1. Live to Learn profile image59
                      Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      There have always been terrible people doing terrible things. The difference is we now have the ability to see and hear in greater depth and, of course, they have more horrible tools.

        2. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Very thought-provoking read.

      49. profile image0
        Onusonusposted 8 years ago

        The main problem when we talk about race is that people have trouble distinguishing the concept of culture from race. It is as though in order to be a valid member of your ethnicity, (any ethnicity) you are beholden to cling to the things that define that culture.

        And what is culture? It is a set of beliefs which dictate how we dress, how we talk, the kinds of food we eat, and sometimes the music we listen to. All of these values that are held by minorities in any given country are meaningless to the main culture. Which is why the most successful people in society with a minority background are those who assimilate themselves into the main culture.

        I'm not just talking about blacks, or Asians, or Mexicans. White people have subcultures within themselves as well and they make a conscious decision to stand out in some of the worst ways. Consider all the white kids with face tattoos, stretched out ear lobes, etc. Employers, law enforcement, and the rest of society are all thinking the same thing, this person makes bad decisions.  I'm part German, I think it would look pretty ridiculous if I were going to work wearing lederhosen. Just like it would be strange to see a guy walking around in a kilt, or a kosovorotka.

        These things are of such little value to the main culture it is akin to making a conscious choice to be poor. So if a Mexican guy in America decides to open a shop that sells sombreros he has a very limited customer base and will most likely end up going under. On the other hand if he decides to sell blue genes, his earning potential is only limited to the 320 million Americans, (every man, woman, and child) in this country who likes to wear them.

        So now what happens when minorities decide to cling together and willfully segregate themselves?
        We get poverty, gangs, and crime.Why? Because they have chosen to put all kinds of limits to their potential. There is less networking, and there is more complaining. All of these places where minorities choose to congregate have names; the ghetto, the hood, the reservation. I work with Blacks, Asians, Latinos, and Natives, and they are successful people, but only when they choose to leave the victim narrative behind and focus on doing their best.   

        The truth is that your race is nothing more than the color of your skin and that's all it should be. This country's motto is E pluribus unum (out of many one). That is what we need to be, that is what our children need in order to be the most successful. If you choose the opposite which is multiculturalism you choose to be poor. If you choose to hold to the victim status, you will get exactly what you are looking for.

        1. gmwilliams profile image85
          gmwilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          A+.............................................there are FAR TOO MANY VICTIMS & NEGATERS today in America.  Thank you Onusonus for your synopsis.

          1. profile image0
            Onusonusposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks!

          2. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Your comments:  most commendable Onusorus. But, as a alternative to multiculturalism, you offer( 'E Pluribus 'unum'). Who and what is the nature and characteristics of the 'unum'?

            1. profile image0
              Onusonusposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              It means many people from different backgrounds come to this country to assimilate into this culture. America is one of the few countries in the world where if you become a citizen you are considered an American that same day. Such is not the case in most of the world. You will never be considered Japanese, or Mexican if you move to one of those countries.

              1. Credence2 profile image82
                Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                The situation is that what is defined as 'this culture' is variable and changes with the passage of time and with the infusion of ever diverse groups of people.

              2. Live to Learn profile image59
                Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                That's the beauty and the problem. I know the description of our society used to be melting pot. Now, the politically correct ideal appears to be salad bowl. That, to me, is dangerous because of the desire for people to be classified as victims so they can lobby for entitlements. I prefer to think of us as a stew. Different origins, histories and different lives prior to choosing to form a union but all agreeing to the same seasoning (our laws and ideals for freedom) so we slowly become a more diverse, yet unified, society.

                1. wilderness profile image78
                  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Nice analogy.  I like it!

              3. IslandBites profile image68
                IslandBitesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Because the US is a multicultural country. There is no "this culture".  That's what some people don't understand. Not even between "whites"there is "this culture". German descendants, Irish descendants, etc. have their own food, traditions, customs and values. Many also keep their language.
                What about Jews?
                Asians, Latinos, Africans, Middle Easterners, etc. in the US are not homogeneous groups, each have their own culture, yet they are as american as "whites". Even if they don't speak english.

                That to these days, assimilation is considered by many the only way to success in a multicultural country only shows what kind of society the US have...

                1. Credence2 profile image82
                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Maybe, this might have something to do with that concept of 'real Americans' that Conservatives are always talking about. Who are they suppose to represent?

                2. profile image0
                  Onusonusposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  You are wrong about multiculturalism. But by all means if you think it will serve you better to live in America without having to speak English, I say open a business, don't speak any English to your customers, and see how good you can do.
                  On the plus side, once your business goes under you will get to complain about discrimination and you get to claim your victim status. You'll be broke, but at least you'll feel all warm inside about it.

                  1. Credence2 profile image82
                    Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    I'll tell you though, you can live pretty well in Miami and not have ENGLISH as your primary language. But, it is one of the few places where that is true.

                    1. IslandBites profile image68
                      IslandBitesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      NYC, Los Angeles, etc. And that's just Spanish. There are many communities where people speak their language, have their business and are successful.

                      1. IslandBites profile image68
                        IslandBitesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        According to the U.S. Census Bureau, in 2014 there were more than 20 million children under 5 years old living in the U.S., and 50.2 percent of them were minorities.

                        "More than half of the nation's children are expected to be part of a minority race or ethnic group," by 2020, the U.S. Census Bureau reports, referring to all kids under the age of 18.

                        The minority population is expected to rise to 56 percent of the total population in 2044. When that happens, "no group will have a majority share of the total and the United States will become a 'plurality' [nation] of racial and ethnic groups," the U.S. Census states.

                        I guess assimilation will be happening, right?

                      2. Credence2 profile image82
                        Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        The point that you make is that the days of people unable to speak English being consigned to a 'taco truck' economy is over. There are places in Miami, where you can't get a job in mainstream industries if you are conversational in Spanish.

                3. peoplepower73 profile image85
                  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  IslandBites:  Kudos to you.  I couldn't have said it better, being first generations Italians.  Yes, our parents assimilated in this country, but kept many traditions of Italy, that I'm very proud of.  The difference is my parents came here by choice.  They were not packed into slave ships, so they had no heritage or traditions to fall back on.  Their lineage and history started the minute they were sold into indentured servitude in the country and the people they were to serve.

            2. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I'm looking for Onisurus' original post.  sad

        2. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13167283.jpg

          Your apology for racism and evil is creative but hardly realistic. First of all, a majority of the minority are not gang bangers, and most of the black people I knew growing up did not live in the ghetto but were successful farmers.  Secondly, I know many minority people who do not accept Colonialism, who embrace their own culture, and who have money in their pockets. Haven't you ever heard of "Two Faces"? The arrogance of many white men has blinded them to the fact that we also know how to play that game. Many of my brothers play the role in public. Of course they do. Just as many intelligent African slaves played the role of the ignorant Negro during the antebellum. It was simply to their advantage to give the evil white man the image he was looking for, and expected.

          I have been a successful professional musician for most of my adult life and my understanding of the victimization of my people has only empowered me, and it has only made my life better. I live with my eyes wide open. This way I can better avoid stepping in the excrement of Colonialism that is strewn about like land mines. And it is the excrement that can get inside the minds of young African and Indigenous children, erase their true identity, and make them faceless Americans; black and brown on the outside, and all white on the inside. Your argument against multiculturalism is laughable since the trend will continue to move in that direction. Trust and believe, there are many of us who have devoted our lives to making sure of that. Furthermore, many white people are also starting to wake up to the evil of America, and the evil of materialism and capitalism. But your commentary reveals that these are things you admire and consider to be of great worth. And this is just one more reason I find the Christian Bible to be a most interesting piece of work.

          In Matthew 6:24 Jesus said: "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon".

          It also is written to " Love thy neighbor as thyself". Many cannot reconcile these two ideas, and many see them as contradictions. But they are not contradictory at all. And this should be easy to understand for anyone who has ever had children. When a parent sternly corrects a child they do not do so out of hate, but out of love for the child. And it is their responsibility as a parent to set the child's foot on solid ground, so that the child may avoid the many pitfalls ahead of them.  Furthermore, it would be ridiculous to suggest that the concept of "loving thy neighbor" extends to turning a blind eye to your neighbor evil works. It has often been said that you must love the man and hate the evil. Just as with a child, when you chastise  and correct your evil neighbor, you are not necessarily doing so out of hate, but it is only out of of love. For if you truly hated your neighbor, you would not seek to correct him, nor to reason with him at all. You would not seek to set his foot on solid ground, but you would simply exterminate him, as you would a common household pest; as the Colonialist squatters exterminated over 100 million of my people.

          Many will champion all things European because they feel that is the way to go, because that is where the money is. But that is only a symptom of the sickness that will soon destroy America, and possibly the entire human race. For along with the money, the greed, and the addiction to materialism, comes a very high price. And the cost is measured in the blood of young American soldiers, in the blood of non-combatants throughout the Middle East, in the blood of Syrian children, and in the many tragedies born of corporate and political greed; from  the evil of Philip Morris,Henry Ford, and Monsanto, to the evil of Love Canal, the  Kalamazoo River, and Flint Michigan. You speak of getting ahead, but the love of money and the continued glorification of evil is only getting the American people positioned squarely behind the 8 ball.

      50. profile image0
        Onusonusposted 8 years ago

        If you truly want what's best for your families you'll do best to dump the multiculturalism mantra of victimology and focus on being successful in your job and raising productive law abiding children.

        The alternative is to pump into their minds that every obstacle they face is from some shadowy, nameless, faceless group who is out to get them simply because of the color of their skin. They will never succeed with that kind of mentality.

        If you think I'm wrong then prove me wrong and move to an all black neighborhood and come back and tell me about how much your life has improved. Tell me about the better education they have, the better jobs, the lower crime rate, and the increase of opportunities available for your family outside of mainstream America.

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I just read two of your articles and followed you.  I like your thought processes.

          I'm glad to see your suggestion here.  I won't go through the "make lemonade" thing.  I appreciate the struggles of my ancestors and cannot imagine the pain and humiliation they went through.  I'm sure their philosophy down through the years has been to "make something of yourself and have a better life."

          My sister is miserable about a family "secret" that makes it clear that she is hurt  or hates my parents.  She also hates me!  I wasn't even born when history was made.  She lives in a senior citizens home and has no real friends.  We have lots of family whom she has alienated.  When she calls me I am welcoming but refuse to play the role I did when we were growing up.  Her jealousy feeds her resentment of me.  I have never lost a friend, communicate well with my family of more 200+, had a good career, and am financially ok.  I love her and am willing to draw her close if she drops her schemes.  Hatred makes you destroy yourself while everyone else thrives.

          1. profile image0
            Onusonusposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I am always glad to see when a person can overcome adversity in their pursuits. I think that there is simply too many teachers in the schools that are telling the kids they are victims. These kids end up in the work place and as soon as something doesn't go their way it just must be about some form of discrimination. Because I'm a woman, I'm a minority, I'm a homosexual, my religion, my hair color, etc. I hear it all the time with new kids at my job, and they are unwilling to except any kind of rejection as a learning experience. Rather there was some injustice that occurred against them. 

            I'm sorry to hear that stuff about your sister, I've seen the same kinds of issues in my family as well and it's never easy to deal with.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I changed careers because I was tired of hearing kids talk about being victims.  James Brown wrote a song, "I don't want nobody giving me nothing!  Open up the Door!  I'll get it myself!" 

              I would tell students, "Get qualified and then apply for the job.  If you don't get it, then seek recourse."  Students come to school sagging, with Ipods in ear, texting, speaking the vernacular of their youth, etc.  When the jobs are  posted, they should already be qualified.  By the time they get qualified, the job is gone.

              I'm working with my great nephew right now.  He was raised to be respectful and to wear his clothes properly.  But he just graduated high school and turned 18.  His mom wants him to stop playing video games and pay bills.  I'm praying, investing, and trusting that he will graduate college and move beyond this phase.

              I hate the victim mentality too.

        2. Credence2 profile image82
          Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I do not think that multicultural is necessarily synonymous with advocating for victim hood.

          1. profile image0
            Onusonusposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Multiculturalism certainly leads to a victim-hood mentality, and it is largely due to the fact that those people are willfully segregating themselves from the main culture. And the main culture has no plausible use for it. Subcultures will always be oppressed by the main culture in any given situation. That is culture, not race.

      51. Credence2 profile image82
        Credence2posted 8 years ago

        Yeah, how about pulling your pants up!!!

        I grew up with all kinds of fads in the day, but each preceding generation criticizes the fads of the next, such is the tapestry of life.

      52. profile image0
        ahorsebackposted 8 years ago

        IN truth ,  in order to stop  focusing on race  or color  or our  differences ,  we have to start  thinking of our similarities because they are far, far more than the opposite .  The first sense to  align  itself when we meet is the sense of sight ,  The word racist first of all should be banned from our vocabulary .   And as I have stated before  , It almost was a forgotten term !

        When we meet ,we first should look to the habits of all  peoples that are like our own  , do we  act out of kindness ? Do we  share what we have and what we are ?   Is opening a door  for someone  more important than  visiting upon how different we are ? Do we smile  with a direct meeting of the eye's ?  Maybe its always been a part of human nature  but I believe that our most unkind  acts as people have been to  pre- judge  , obviously .

        However  , we cannot go into the crowded room of life with an attitude  ,    with an expectation born of any personal selfishness ,  My biggest piece of advice for all  is to open the mind  , keep it open and just when you think  , Okay ," I've had about all I can stand ,"    Open the mind just a little further ! 

        Problem is today ,  minds , like hearts  are closing down - or they  never truly began to open anyways !

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Ahorse, that is excellent advice for those of us who interact on a daily basis.  It would be amazing if we could all respect and appreciate each other.  At this point in my life, it doesn't even matter if someone I meet is a racist.  I know who I am and that I have accomplished a lot in life, against all odds.

          Our challenge is to educate, encourage and provide opportunities that are not within our daily circles.  If they succeed and continue a spiral up then poverty and crime are less.  Some people are where they are by choice but they still need the opportunity to do better.  The children that did not have a choice need to be encouraged, mentored and helped to stop the spiral down.

          It is in our best interest for everyone to do well.

      53. profile image52
        Terri Ray1posted 8 years ago

        As I have been learning the truth more and more people are realizing slavery was an issue . Now with the truth about history and the constitution all are enslaved because of the corporations and the two US Constitution which was not made for any people. I believe the first lady made that statement to say she may be able to help in the issues but that there is history of the men who built the white house . No matter what slaves built which showed intelligence .

      54. umm e ammara profile image61
        umm e ammaraposted 8 years ago

        Slavery gives you the best lesson for your bright future.

      55. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
        Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

        And do you know who America was named after?

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Amerigo Vespucci was from a wealthy Italian family. He was a navigator and adventurer who was one of the first to recognize and popularize the notion that the  New World was actually two separate continents. Even unto his  death, the miscreant Columbus believed that he had arrived in Asia, and was not aware that he had stumbled upon an entirely different continent. A German mapmaker by the name of Martin Waldseemuller who had read Vespucci's letters printed a wood block map of the New World. Waldseemuller printed the name "America" across the southern continent in honor of Vespucci. He sold many copies of the map, and this is how the name became popular. And so, America was actually named by one of my  German ancestors. But I am not impressed, and I am certain that the name will eventually be changed to something more suitable, and Indigenous. Milwaukee, Cemanuhauc, Turtle Island, or wrenchBiscuit, are all preferable names.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
            Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            … land of wrenchBiscuit.
            Elucidate?

          2. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
            Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Columbus's first trip brought him to the islands south and east of what is now the United States.
            He was sure he had arrived at the islands in Asia called the Indies. This is why he named the people he found "Indians."
            There is no proof he was the instigator of the brutish actions of his men. Even these reports could have been fabricated / exaggerated, or politically motivated.
            This report was written long after Columbus had died, (aged 55 on May 20th, 1506.)
            Bartolomé de las Casas
            A SHORT ACCOUNT OF THE DESTRUCTION OF THE INDIES
            written 1542, published 1552.

            " … but he actually never sailed to North America. In fact, he wasn’t even the first European to come to the Americas. Many historians suspect that Viking Leif Erickson, who established a settlement in northeastern Canada in the 11th century, was the first European to come to the Americas."

            "Upon his return to Spain after his third voyage, Columbus was imprisoned for the barbaric acts of torture he had used to govern Hispaniola."

            http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/1010/ … in-prison.

            "Hispaniola |ˌhispənˈyōlə|
            an island in the Greater Antilles in the Caribbean Sea, divided into the countries of Haiti and the Dominican Republic. After its European discovery by Columbus in 1492, Hispaniola was colonized by the Spaniards, who ceded the western part (now Haiti) to France in 1697."

            1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
              wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              If we are to take that route, then we could also suggest there is no proof that the Romans fed the Christians to the Lions in the arena. Do you know anyone who was there? We could also dismiss the Spanish Inquisition as nothing but hearsay. Were you there? Do you know anyone who was?

              The way we arrive at knowledge through the physical is very simple, and can be quite accurate. And this is how it is done: We study information from a variety of sources from different points along the time line. We then consider various accounts in the historical record from different authors. When these accounts tend to tell a similar story, or in many cases, the very same story, we can conclude with confidence that we are at the truth, or at least close enough to rock and roll.  The brutality described by Bartolome de las Casas is in line with what came before during the Spanish Inquisition, and what came after. For instance, the massacres of Sand Creek and Wounded Knee happened toward the end of the 19th century, and cannot be dismissed as ancient fiction.  When we also include the Europeans lust for gold and silver, and the papal bull "Dum Diversas" issued by Pope Nicholas V in 1452, a document that sanctioned and legalized the perpetual enslavement and dispossession of all non-Christians, we can easily see a pattern of evil. But most telling of all. The words of Columbus from his own journal, gives us more than a clue about his character:

              "They... brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things, which they exchanged for glass beads and hawks' bells. They willingly traded everything they owned ... They were well built with good bodies and handsome features ... They do not bear arms, and do not know them ... They would make fine servants ... With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want."


              Last but not least, in order to arrive at the truth we compare our own experiences to the historical record as well. And my personal experiences with America and racism are in line with the historical record. Apparently, many Americans want to believe in a fairy tale . They so desperately want to believe that they are "the good guys" that they will not only ignore the historical record, but also the evil being perpetrated by the United States government here and now in the 21st century.

      56. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
        Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

        "He was a navigator and adventurer …"  Amerigo Vespucci was born in 1454, during the Renaissance. He knew geography, math and astronomy and could read and write in Latin. He worked for the Medici Family and Lorenzo The Magnificent who was head of the family, a merchant and a banker. In Spain, Vespucci helped stock ships with supplies for long sea voyages to Europe, Africa and the Middle East. Vespucci met Christopher Columbus in 1493 and helped him stock his ships for a second voyage to "Asia".
        Vespucci joined the search for a passage to Asia. (Traveling to China and India by land had become increasingly dangerous due to wars.) His first attempt to find a sea route to the Far East for Spain failed and a second attempt was funded by Portugal. Vespucci eventually became a master navigator with knowledge of latitude and longitude based on the stars. He spent more than a year along the southern coast of South America. He eventually realized that Columbus was wrong and the land they were exploring was not the edge of Asia, but a "New World." He prepared a map of the routes that ships should take to the New World. He died a citizen of Spain in 1512.
        The name America was suggested by a cartographer named Waldseemuller in 1507. This map maker created the first map of the world which included the lands, (continents,) across the Atlantic Ocean. World maps before this were copies of Ptolemy's from over a thousand years before.)

        So, perhaps we should also blame the Renaissance men with their increasing knowledge and their quest for wealth.

      57. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
        Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

        1. "Bright side of life" =  the "WHITE side of life".

        2.  "America the Beautiful" is a GLORIFICATION of 
                        A m e r i c a n   R a c i s m.

        3.  Many WHITES today iignore the  E v i l  around them.


        Whites = bad. sad They deserve nothing. 

        What should be done with them??
        Death to WHITES?
        Gosh!!! yikes

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          ?  I'm lost but I'm going back to read posts.  I guess this will make sense or nonsense after I catch up!

      58. profile image0
        ahorsebackposted 8 years ago

        Everyone has to understand , what  All professional    victims   want , no have to have , IS an entity of blame !

        As so  along comes the biggest shoulders in the modern day world -----America !
        Slavery  ,  servitude  , mass socio-economic - mass  immigrationist's   , any of those in   cultural poverty ,  social activist reformers ,  liberal artists , intellectual  idealists , political  morons ,   ANY PERSON WHO HAS EVER FELT A VICTIM OF SOCIO-ECONOMICS in their own right , IS who needs an object to blame -for it all ,    Today ;Native Americans , African Americans ,BLM or in other words , intellectually  entitled youth educated  of  entitled immaturity, anyone who can historically claim that they were somehow a victim of  ,  mostly their own inability to  evolve , mostly by tier own inability to advance socio-economically
        for whatever reason -------------------Become these professional victims !

        No one alive  knows - NOT one person alive,   who was a slave , a victim of manifest destiny , a victim of colonialist America .  Yet, All that Americans need to do is turn around and there in front of you is a professional victim !


        http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13119860.png

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          ahorse, do you think the blue collar workers who are supporting Donald Trump are a victim class also.  There are those (not saying MANY) who theorize that that is the case.

        2. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
          Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          +1 (especially that last line !)
          (  … and the seal says it all.)

          1. gmwilliams profile image85
            gmwilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            +1,000,000,000,000,000,0000,000. Ahorseback is succinctly right regarding the seal.  America has become the land of the whiners, victims, rescue meers, & those who adamantly refuse to take responsibility or to be accountable in their lives.  America is also now a nation of accusers & blamers.

            http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/7694511.jpg

            1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
              wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Especially in light of recent events, your entire narrative falls flat on its face. Many of the people who are speaking out against the evil and corrupt police departments across the nation are very, very, successful people. Jesse Williams, Colin Kaepernick, and Beyonce will not be on the welfare rolls anytime soon. Yet, they have all challenged the status quo at a great risk to their lucrative careers, as well as a great risk to their personal safety. These are courageous people who have honored our ancestors and encouraged young people to stand against evil.

              Edward Snowden also had a successful career, but he gave all of that up to do the right thing. God Bless Edward Snowden! And let us not forget Martin Luther King. He did not have to risk his life, and ultimately sacrifice his life in the service of his people. He was a very educated and articulate man, to say the least. He could have chased the money instead of a dream. And if he would have done so, he most likely would be alive today and counting his money, while people of lesser means would still be riding in the back of the bus. Muhammed Ali also raised a loud voice against the evil of America. And at that time he wasn't some Hobo standing in a soup kitchen. He was the heavy weight champion of the world!

              Based on what I perceive to be the commentary of working class whites,and colonized minorities, I maintain that a great majority of Americans are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. For example:

              • It is a well known fact that less than 1% of the people living in the United States control most of the wealth.

              • It is  well known that the United States government is not spending trillions of dollars on "defense" but for the sake of Imperialist aggression and world domination.

              • It is well known that white people are being murdered by the police in greater numbers than any other race.

              • It is well known that companies like Monsanto actually control the U.S. government, have damaged the environment,  killed millions of people, and will continue to kill millions more, all for the sake of American Greed.

              And this is a very short list. But this list alone begs the question: If they are not themslves an evil breed of man, or if they are not suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, then why do so many mainstream Americans defend such an evil governmemnt; a government whose violent past mirrors the present ?

              1. dianetrotter profile image62
                dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                • It is well known that white people are being murdered by the police in greater numbers than any other race.

                Me
                I know of two white families who have spoken out over the past year.  I wonder why more are not speaking out publicly.

                1. Live to Learn profile image59
                  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I'd say probably because whites usually have a 'reap what you sow' mentality. Most of those killed by police have criminal records. It's difficult to sympathize when someone who lives on the wrong side of the law falls victim. Not saying that is right but that is usually the way it is.

                  1. dianetrotter profile image62
                    dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    aHaa!  You said "Most!"  I have seen several televised occasions where white people have been mistreated/killed by police.  If there are 2 instances, there have to be more.  The use of cameras, in time, will surely bring more instances.

                    If there is a crime, the person should be arrested and taken to trial.  I know it gets sketchy sometimes; however, that is why evaluation, training and oversight need to be overhauled.  Police are human beings like the rest of us.  There are a large number of great ones and good ones.  There are some that are not. 

                    My police officer niece was concerned about something that happened.  She said she didn't say anything because, "The next time I call for backup, it might not come."

                    People should give police whatever information they can when they look for suspects.  Police officers should report matters of concern to (?).

                    1. Live to Learn profile image59
                      Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      I agree that there should be more oversight and there should be complete transparency. If an officer acts outside of the boundaries of the law they should not be protected. They should suffer the same fate you and I would for the same transgressions. And, I would take it one step further and call for psychological tests to be put into place. Bullies should not be hired in the first place.

                      1. wilderness profile image78
                        wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        "Just as agencies want to ensure you are physically fit for the job, they also want to ensure that you are psychologically stable and mentally fit to handle the job. This evaluation is typically made through written psychological exams and may be supplemented with an interview by a psychologist. Psychological testing serves two functions: to evaluate your character and emotional make-up and to ensure you are well suited to the job from a psychological standpoint."   http://discoverpolicing.org/what_does_t … ng_process

                        What you ask for is already in place.  The problem, of course, is that psychology is not an exact science and people DO change.

                      2. dianetrotter profile image62
                        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        My friend's son applied for LAPD and he was turned down.  He then applied for State Trooper.  He was going through training and then tragedy struck.


                        He was sitting in the administrative offices of Montgomery Ward where he used to work as security.  He was with 3 of his former co-workers.

                        He put his service revolver to his head and pulled the trigger.  I don't know what his issues were.  LAPD might have picked it up.  There are some who want to become officers for the wrong reason.

                        The good thing is the process is being talked about and, without the Feds, states should be able to come up with procedures that will ensure suspects are caught and taken to trial.

              2. wilderness profile image78
                wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                • It is a well known fact that less than 1% of the people living in the United States control most of the wealth.

                Outside of you wanting that wealth for your own purposes, what is the problem with it?

                • It is  well known that the United States government is not spending trillions of dollars on "defense" but for the sake of Imperialist aggression and world domination.

                Can you point to a single country the US government has taken over and annexed against their will?

                • It is well known that companies like Monsanto actually control the U.S. government, have damaged the environment,  killed millions of people, and will continue to kill millions more, all for the sake of American Greed.

                Can  you point to even a single person Monsanto has intentionally killed?

                1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                  wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13179172.jpg

                  wrenchBiscuit Prevails Against Angry Mob

                  I am not addicted to materialism. Furthermore, my family were successful farmers, and I am a successful artist. I have enough money for my needs, and it is the muse that I am most interested in. A man who worships material things is quite pathetic, and the cemeteries are full of "rich" men. Where I am going there is a different standard, as opposed to the gold standard. If I wanted great wealth for any purpose it would be to destroy the evil Capitalists, and to imprison them for crimes against humanity.

                  The evil of Real Estate is the primary cause of poverty throughout the world. In a moral society men would not be warehoused on top of one another in filthy inner cities while the rich horde vast amounts of land and resources. This wealth would be distributed among the people according to their needs. In a moral society each man, woman, and child would be guranteed land, and clean water; not as a privilege, but as a birth right. It is perverse for a man to demand a price of admission for the land that no man himself has created, but was created by the very hand of God.

                  You commented: "Can you point to a single country the US government has taken over and annexed AGAINST their will? " Yes, that is easy, but I will name two instead of one!

                  • The Kingdom of Hawaii was invaded and taken over against the will of the Hawaiian people.
                  • Diego Garcia :Between 1968 and 1973 the entire native population was forcibly removed by the Imperalist U.S. government . The Chagossians were  rendered homeless and destitute as a result.

                  The reluctance of both the Chagossians and the Hawaiians to U.S. Imperialist aggression is well documented. Bill Clinton even apologized to the Hawaiian people while in office for the U.S. overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii in January 1893. I will remind that it was in June of the same year that Katherine Bates penned the lyrics to "America The Beautiful". As I have commented in an earlier post, in light of the evil that had been perpetrated before, during, and after the composition of this song, the song stands as a perverse testament to American hypocrisy and indifference.

                  Although I have clearly answered your question concerning annexation, your question does not go to the heart of the matter. The United States has invaded 70 nations since 1776. Often, such as in Panama with Noriega, the U.S. government will not openly annex a country, but will install a puppet ruler and call the shots behind the scenes. At any rate, the U.S. Imperialist intervention into the affairs of these countries has caused great misery and death. This is not ancient history, as it is happening now at this very moment in Syria, and throughout the Middle East.

                  According to countercurrents.org:

                  "Since 1950 the UN has provided detailed demographic data that have permitted calculation of avoidable deaths, year by year, for every country in the world. 1950-2005 avoidable deaths total 1.3 billion for the whole world, 1.2 billion for the non-European world and 0.6 billion for the Muslim world , the latter carnage being 100 times greater than the WW2 Jewish Holocaust (5-6 million Jews killed, 1 in 6 dying from deprivation) or the “forgotten” WW2 Bengali Holocaust in which the British with Australian complicity deliberately starved 6-7 million Indians to death for strategic reasons .  Currently 18 million people die avoidably each year in the Developing World on Spaceship Earth with the US in charge of the flight deck".

                  "..Thus in the period 1950-2005 there have been 82 million avoidable deaths from deprivation associated with countries  occupied by the US in the post-1945 era".



                  MONSANTO-MONSANTO-MONSANTO

                  You asked if I can point to a single person Monsanto has intentionally killed. You have framed the question in such a way in order to posit the notion that it is impossible for us to know such intentions. Impossible for a fool ... perhaps.  What Monsanto has continued to do for decades is to demonstratea a depraved indifference to human life for the sake of profit. Their intention is evident in the carnage, the wasted human life, and environmental waste they have left behind. I personally knew a Catholic priest in New York who died as a result of exposure to Agent Orange, which was manufactured by Monsanto. His name was Father Paul. He helped Vietnamese orphans during the Vietnam War in country.

                  According to globalresearch.ca:

                  "1960s: Monsanto, along with chemical partner-in-crime DOW Chemical, produces dioxin-laced Agent Orange for use in the U.S.’s Vietnam invasion. The results? Over 3 million people contaminated, a half-million Vietnamese civilians dead, a half-million Vietnamese babies born with birth defects and thousands of U.S. military veterans suffering or dying from its effects to this day!

                  Monsanto is hauled into court again and internal memos show they knew the deadly effects of dioxin in Agent Orange when they sold it to the government. Outrageously though, Monsanto is allowed to present their own “research” that concluded dioxin was safe and posed no negative health concerns whatsoever. Satisfied, the bought and paid for courts side with Monsanto and throws the case out. Afterwards, it comes to light that Monsanto lied about the findings and their real research concluded that dioxin kills very effectively".


                  A later internal memo released in a 2002 trial admitted:

                  “that the evidence proving the persistence of these compounds and their universal presence as residues in the environment is beyond question … the public and legal pressures to eliminate them to prevent global contamination are inevitable. The subject is snowballing. Where do we go from here? The alternatives: go out of business; sell the hell out of them as long as we can and do nothing else; try to stay in business; have alternative products.”


                  But Agent Orange is just one of the many deadly products produced by Monsanto that have killed millions of human beings, and threatened the health of millions more. PCB.s, DDT, Roundup, and  GMO.s
                  to name a few. This evil corporation aptly illustrates the inhumanity of Capitalism, and the demonic underpinning of "The American Dream", and Manifest Destiny.

                  1. Credence2 profile image82
                    Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    You can also add to that the annexation of the Phillipines as one of the US spoils of war in its war against Spain in the 1890s. There was resistance to this annexation in the form of armed resistance by the Phillipinos, not so happy to exhange one master for another. The Phillipines were granted independence by 1946.

                    1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                      wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13181130.jpg

                      Yes, the Philippines is another good example of U.S. Imperialism. But I already knew before I started that even when faced with the truth, there are many who will deny what is staring them right in the face. The argument that a particular evil happened in the past is no good argument at all. But this is the one the apologist will always use. wilderness has proclaimed to the world that after 60,100,or 500 years, it is not the same people, or nation. And thus, there should be no accountability. But it appears he has once again painted  himself into a corner. For it follows that forgiveness, and forgetfulness, of the brutality of an entire nation, should also apply to the individual. Perhaps Leslie Van Houten should try using the same excuse. After all, she has served nearly 50 years in prison for the brutal murders of Rosemary and Leno LaBianca. And I am sure she is a totally different person than the 19 year old girl who was arrested and sent to prison for life in 1971. Also, according to many here, it is not good to carry hatred for someone, or some thing, for so many years.

                      And so, if the mainstream feels this way, and are all about forgiveness, why is this woman still in prison? For the record, I will tell you what you already know. The Americans pick and choose who they will demonize. All totaled, the death toll in the Tate / LaBianca murders amounts to 7. But before I continue, let it be known that I am a "Believer in One". What does it mean? It means I feel that if only one innocent person must suffer and die, out of over 320 million, then it is one too many. Having made that clear, I also feel that the greater the number, the more egregious the crime. The Americans have demonized Leslie Van Houten for her participation in the brutal killing of Rosemary and Leno LaBianca. Considering the irreversible nature of a murder victim, I do not have a great amount of sympathy for her cause. Especially since this event was more of a "thrill killing" than any sort  of justifiable homicide with mitigating circumstances. However, when we consider that she has been demonized for killing two people, while celebrated men like Columbus,George Washington, and Harry Truman, are personally, and collectively responsible for the  brutal killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent people, the continued imprisonment of Leslie Van Houten is nothing less than an outrage; not necessarily because of her suffering, but because of the hypocrisy of mainstream America. Columbus Day is the most despicable holiday ever invented,as he was a criminal, and a mass murderer of biblical proportion.

                      I have been admonished not to hate the evil colonizers, and those who celebrate their allegiance to evil  each year on Columbus Day. But the state of California, and mainstream America, appear to be comfortable in continuing to punish a woman nearly 50 years after the fact. Some will argue that in her case it is not about hate, but about justice. But I too  can say the same thing about America. After the time of hating has long since passed, justice must still prevail. If the American people truly want to move forward, then this  macabre celebration of violence and evil must surely  end. There must be no statute of limitation on murder, whether that crime is committed by an individual, or on behalf of an entire nation.

                      1. dianetrotter profile image62
                        dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        WB, are you sugesting we don't have National holidays?

                        With regard to Van Houten, it is possible to forgive a murder and the person still be accountable for what he/she has done.

                        I have asked God's forgiveness for things I did 45 years ago but I have not forgotten.  I want to ask forgiveness of others and have no idea of how they will respond.

                        At the same time my sister has a grudge against me about things that happened before I was born.  I told her that I am sorry that those things happened to her but I can't change them.  She has gone on to find reasons to be upset with all family members for one thing or another.  I told her she is going to die alone, bitter and unhappy.  The doctor gave her 10 years to live about 2 years ago.

                        It would be great if there were some solution for justice.  Often times it is impossible to get justice.  I've learned a lot during our discussion and still believe we should "hold people responsible for what they hae done."  Denial is offensive.  Acknowledgement goes a long way in the healing process. 

                        Scott Wilds has taken on the project of help us to put the pieces of our family puzzle together.  He said there is some information he can't reveal yet because elderly white relatives have not been told.

                        What types of things do you think should be done?

                      2. Credence2 profile image82
                        Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        "Yes, the Philippines is another good example of U.S. Imperialism. But I already knew before I started that even when faced with the truth, there are many who will deny what is staring them right in the face."
                        -----------------
                        Yes, we are guilty in this regard, I am taken back to the situation in Guatamala, where we interceded against democratically elected goverment there to protect the interests of an AMERICAN multinational, the AMERICAN Fruit Company during the 1950s. Today, I am disappointed that the current administration is slow to respond to the right-wing coup in Brazil, as of late.

                        I am willing to forgive what occurred in the distant past, but it is irresponsible for me to forget as I need to always be able to identify troubling signs as a fact that 'lessons have not been learned'. I am more troubled by those that after so much time have passed find it convenient to deny that exploitation of certain groups never occurred. This much like the 'holocaust deniers' from the period of Adolph Hitler's ThirdReich.

                        When you are the 'top dog', it is always easy to say 'let bygones be bygones'.
                        -------------

                        The Tate-La Bianca murders were horrific crimes, and I can understand why she and Manson may never be released. The same fate should be the case for Sirhan-Sirhan, the assassin of Robert Kennedy. Itis nota matter of hatred, but justice. Like you, I rather see 10 guilty people released than one innocent person held or executed.

                        Columbus Day is a holiday depending on your point of view. While there were indiginous people here prior to the arrival of the European, there is only cause to celebrate based solely upon the arrival of the European?

                        I haven't got time to hate people anymore, as there are fewer days ahead then behind. But, that does not mean that I am not oblivious to what's going on and not aware of the danger from certain people, institutions and attitudes. I will explain my point of view to those that will listen and hope to listen to my adversaries points of view and their rationale, in return. I can't blame people living today for the atrocities of the past, but I can blame them for not seeing the link of past events to current circumstances. Whatever we are today has to be in part a function of what occured, yesterday.

                        Brutality and violence seems to be the mainstay of the human condition, not limited to any specific group of human family. Seems like there is plenty of 'helter skelter' to go around.

                  2. wilderness profile image78
                    wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    "This wealth would be distributed among the people according to their needs. In a moral society each man, woman, and child would be guranteed land, and clean water; not as a privilege, but as a birth right. "

                    Kind of what I said, isn't it?  You would have their money for your own uses - that you consider those uses a "moral right" doesn't change anything at all.

                    "• The Kingdom of Hawaii was invaded and taken over against the will of the Hawaiian people."

                    The hawaiian people voted to join the union; there was no "takeover" and shading the truth will not change that, either.  "Out of a total population of 600,000 in the islands and 155,000 registered voters, 140,000 votes were cast, the highest turnout ever in Hawaii. The vote showed approval rates of at least 93% by voters on all major islands" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Admission_Act

                    I'm sorry, but the British control Diego Garcia.  You want to blame someone for "Imperialism", blame them.

                    So Monsanto is killed no one, in spite of your ridiculous claim it has killed millions - not even with deadly GMO's we all depend on for a food source.  Even you cannot hold a company responsible for what others do with it's product...though come to think of it you hold the white race responsible for what a few people did 500 years ago.  Perhaps you can, but it won't wash with me.  Our corporations are not the moral guardian of the people.

                    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                      Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      You forgot to add the "majority" of white people.

                    2. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                      wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      That vote came nearly 60 years after the United States Invaded the Kingdom of Highway and annexed the Hawaiian Islands as a territory. Here is the important part you left out:

                      The overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii began with the coup d'état of January 17, 1893 on the island of Oahu, leading to the end of the hereditary monarchs, largely at the hands of United States citizens within the kingdom government under Queen Lili'uokalani and backed by an invasion of U.S. Marines under John L. Stevens. Hawaii was initially reconstituted as an independent republic, but the ultimate goal of the revolutionaries was the annexation of the islands to the United States, which was finally accomplished in 1898.


                      Members of the native population persuaded the new queen to draft a new constitution in an attempt to restore native rights and powers.The move was resisted by the Committee on Annexation, which were a small group of businessmen and politicians who felt that annexation by the United States, the major importer of Hawaiian agricultural products, would be beneficial for the economy of Hawaii. On January 17, 1893, Queen Liliuokalani yielded her authority announcing it was to 'avoid any collision of armed forces, and perhaps the loss of life.' In 1895, a failed attempt by Hawaiian royalists to restore Queen Liliuokalani to power resulted in her arrest. She was forced to sign a document of abdication that relinquished all her future claims to the throne. She was then made to endure a humiliating public trial before a military tribunal in her former throne room.Queen Liliuokalani was convicted of having knowledge of a royalist plot, and was fined - she was sentenced to five years in prison and hard labor - although it was later reduced."


                      And your spin that 94% of Hawaiians voted for statehood is also a racist lie that has played well with the Archie Bunker crowd. According to statehoodhawaii.org http://statehoodhawaii.org/2009/05/12/t … lebiscite/

                      "There is nothing to suggest that Hawaii’s plebiscite, offering only a choice between “statehood” or “to remain a territory,” fulfills the international mandate. Also, there is little to suggest that residents of Hawaii were properly educated on the process or understood the importance of the plebiscite and what rights were available to the population. As the state insists that 94% of the voters voted for statehood, nowhere do they mention that of those eligible to vote, only 35% actively voted for statehood, as most Hawaii residents did not vote.

                      On March 18, 1959, the day Congress passed the Admission Act, Joseph F. Smith, Professor of Speech and an advocate of statehood at the University of Hawaii, sent a letter to Governor Quinn describing a recent study he conducted. He wrote, “I venture to predict that one of the most surprising features of our forthcoming election will be the number of votes opposing statehood, plus the number of ballots which will carry neither yes or no votes.” Further he observed, “only three of the students were actively in favor of statehood, and the remainder were either apathetic, saying, ‘it will make no difference,’ or definitely opposed. I think, unquestionably, these youngsters reflect the attitude of their parents.”  This attitude of apathy reflects the fact that Territorial Governors were appointed by a U.S. President that residents of Hawaii were barred from voting for."

                      "... Examining the assertion that 94% of Hawaii’s citizens voted for statehood, actual numbers reveal a much smaller percentage and the numbers suggest that only 35% of eligible voters actively sought statehood." 



                      I'm not even going to comment on your ridiculous apology for Monsanto. Such nonsense warrants no response.

                      1. wilderness profile image78
                        wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        If I failed to cover the silliness of going back a hundred years and saying that the US is the same country it was then, I apologize.  I understand that five hundred years is as yesterday if you hate badly enough, but it is not the response of rational people.

                        You're right - there is no response possible.  Partly because the end of the trail is declaring that the farmer that grew the apple that was used to poison the lady is a murderer.  Or the man running the machine that made the match used in the arson is.  Or the people working for Monsanto, for that matter, or anyone providing raw materials.  Like the worker at the city water plant.

        3. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13178409_f1024.jpg

          It is remarkable how people try to silence the opposition these days with words and phrases such as : hate, whining,race baiting, victim mentality, and "playing the race card".  This is a perverted society, and it is perverse to suggest that hate is strictly a negative and destructive emotion. A man who hates pain will run to the doctor as quickly as he can, and in doing so, his aversion to pain may actually save his life. But a man will never purposely destroy what he loves. The architects, and the beneficiaries of iniquity have always defended the evil hand that leavens their bread. Such loyalties are clearly understood.  But it is only a hatred of evil, along with a love for past, present, and future generations, that will motivate a man  to rebuke this evil legacy.

          I will not be a party to rape, murder and genocide, simply because it pleases the majority for a man to be docile, patriotic, and compliant. You made this comment onhorseback:

          "No one alive  knows - NOT one person alive,   who was a slave , a victim of manifest destiny , a victim of colonialist America."

          But you should speak for yourself, because I have known them all, even those yet unborn. What man does not bleed the red blood that now courses throughout my body? What man does not desire for his family to prosper, and to greet tomorrow with a smile? What man wants to be dispossessed, disenfranchised, and relegated to the status of a pack animal? Yes, I have known all of these. But as you can see, I am not a friend of the devil.  I am not every man, and every man is not me. I have no understanding of such a wicked and malicious heart; not only a heart of stone, but a heart made of titanium steel; an evil heart that ignores the pain and suffering of innocents while keeping the beat of 500 years, and profiting from that misery. I know none of these, as I am not afflicted with the sickness of materialism.

          Many here would do well to appreciate the words of Jesus:

          And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

          Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

          For I was an hungry, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

          I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

          ... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

        4. gmwilliams profile image85
          gmwilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.....

      59. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
        Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

        I mean Diane! If you were discriminated against, those people were dopes. You just carry on!
        YOU JUST CARRY ON!  It is every person's job to fight for his rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness! This government's constitution was designed to protect these rights. The LAW is on each individual's side.
        YOU JUST CARRY ON without letting the bastards get you down!
        and if you have to, knock THEM down.

        1. gmwilliams profile image85
          gmwilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          A RESOUNDING THANK YOU.  Don't let the haters & negaters prevent you from succeeding.  They're mere humans after all.   Succeed & don't permit anyone to distract from one's shine.......
          http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/12739045.jpg

      60. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
        Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

        This just in:
        Victims = Good Guys.
        Hard Working Americans = ... well, you know.

        1. gmwilliams profile image85
          gmwilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Victims=deified
          Hard Working People= castigated
          Successful People= ostracized
          Highly Successful People=demonized

          1. dianetrotter profile image62
            dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            gm, I read your comments regarding people born in low socio-economic environment.  Some of your responses seem to indicate that they are doomed.  Some seem to indicate that they are victim of their origin/upbringing.

            If you don't mind, can you share what impact your upbringing has on your philosophy of life?

        2. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          If only it were so clear cut.

      61. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
        Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

        " ... I am not afflicted with the sickness of materialism."
        Prove it.

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I know what I have seen, what I have heard, and I stand today as a reliable witness before man and God. I have no such talent that would enable me to see into your heart. Unlike many of the "scholars" who have blessed us  us here with their thoughtful commentary, and a hearty revival of Archie Bunkerisms, I don't pretend to know your character, or your intentions. And I find it remarkable that you would raise such a question when I have not singled you out as being materialistic. If the shoe doesn't fit then why do you insist on wearing it?

          But the intention and the character of the majority is easy to measure and consider. For instance, when we see at least one car in every driveway, and often two, then we can understand that the average American has accepted the evil of the automobile into their lives. The automobile has quickly become one of many American Idols. There are many proofs of the materialistic nature of a majority of Americans. But the automobile alone should be enough to convince anyone. For tens of thousands of years, civilizations flourished throughout the world without the automobile. Great artists and thinkers such as Copernicus, Van Gogh, da Vinci, Beethoven, Isaac Newton, and Emmanuel Swedenborg, also did quite well without the automobile.

          The automobile exists solely for the purpose of enabling consumerism and realizing the Capitalist vision for the proletariat; that vision being an efficient work force that will accept perpetual servitude in exchange for the comfort and convenience of a materialistic society. The continued success of the many shopping malls across the nation are only further proof of a materialistic society. And of course, around every shopping mall is a huge parking lot filled with automobiles!

          Evil always comes with a smile, and with something "useful" that can make our lives easier. But modern convenience and technology has bound the modern man as securely as the shackles and chains that bound the slave during the antebellum. In fact, these shackles and chains are much harder to break.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
            Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I have not read past this:
            " I have not singled you out as being materialistic. If the shoe doesn't fit then why do you insist on wearing it?"
            Uh, yes you have. I, as you know, I am white. Plus you say that my type, who are patriotic, are evil and materialistic.

            Reading on, I have about five cars! Do old ones count? A couple trucks for hard work, for helping others, for making a living and for PAYING TAXES!

            What enables you to pay taxes?

            1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
              wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              You have just identified why you are having trouble understanding these issues we are discussing. If you only read the first paragraph then you can't possible understand my argument.  Furthermore, the fact that you are white doesn't necessarily mean that you are evil. As I have commented many times before, I have never suggested that all white people are evil, all patriotic people are evil, or all Americans are materialistic. It would be good if you could base your arguments on the truth as opposed to a fictional narrative you and others here are trying to promote. My criticisms are aimed at the majority. I find it remarkable that I have to keep reminding English speaking people that the word "majority" is not synonymous with "all".

              And it seems you are confused about the meaning of materialism. The mere possession of material things does not necessarily qualify someone as a materialistic person.  I feel many respondents here would benefit from a remedial course in Basic English, and reading comprehension.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                If you mean *majority* of whites you really need to take some remedial writing lessons to remind you to include words which will indicate what you are actually thinking. 

                What is YOUR definition of "materialism?"

          2. Rich kelley profile image60
            Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            (((I have no such talent that would enable me to see into your heart.)))
            Perhaps you know more of the heart than you realize.

            Proverbs 4:23  Watch over your heart with all diligence, For from it flow the springs of life.

            Luke 6:45  "The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.

      62. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
        Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

        The majority of the white race of people are just materialistic, evil and ultimately greedy.
        We got it already!
        AND ...

      63. profile image48
        Scott Cohenposted 8 years ago

        Ignore CNN/Fox News and what politicians say. They don't care about us.

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Sometimes I watch to compare what is reported as opposed to what other networks are reporting and the difference in spin.

      64. profile image53
        Umer Khalidposted 8 years ago

        Nice

      65. profile image0
        ahorsebackposted 8 years ago

        Race among racism

        Demands of accountability  that's nothing
        but an emotional need
        your screams  for entitlement
        will  you arise from the greed

        Who is the perpetrator and who the victim
        yet you still say they lied
        who alive  today is the demon
        we've all forgotten who cried

        No monsters no victims but those
        who came before
        just what will it all get for you though
        as you cry for more

        When the rocks have landed hard or the store
        is burned
        just what part did you play
        what have your children learned

        Saw a young child the other day pick
        up a brick and I wondered  when
        I thought of the hatred  is in his hands and wondered
        where has his father been 





        http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13181772.jpg

      66. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
        Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

        Light and dark exist together here on the material plain.
        Until the day we are of the light and don't want darkness, in whatever form it may take, we have to put up with a lot of stuff. Some of us come from a very idealistic generation and overreact to negativity and over-want perfection on earth. We have to get more realistic and conditions on the horizon may help with, no… FORCE  that. (and these conditions will force us to join together 100% as a nation undivided.)
        We cannot move forward pinpointing our negatives. We may have some problems with attitudes as far as jealousy and arrogance no matter what race. We are all humans. We have progressed on this continent a lot as far as race relations. It does no good rehashing, condemning and finger-pointing all the while making up stuff. Are you surmising in every case of suspected racism?
        I would say so. Maybe you wouldn't, but then, yeah ...

        Are you guessing?

      67. word55 profile image76
        word55posted 8 years ago
        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Hi Word55,

          I read it.  I agree on the two greatest commandments:  a) Love God and b) Love our neighbors as ourselves.  It this were followed through, our world problems would not exist.

          Two problems, unfortunately, keep this from happening
          1.  Unbelievers do not want to love God. 
          2.  "Believers" who do not exhibit the love of God.

          Don't believe ancestors - I don't agree with this one.  I think we should listen to ancestors with discernment.  When we hear negative things we have to put them in perspective.

          Some people don't want to love.  We have to pray for them and make sure we have a posistive impact.  We may be the only Jesus some will ever see.  We should show his love.

      68. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
        Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

        The past was born of ignorance.
        We, (each of us; no matter what nationality, culture or country ... and a lot of us are very mixed anyway,) need to wise up. Its all a matter of attitude. No arrogance. No jealousy.
        Acceptance and Compassion.
        It's hard, but it is possible.

        1. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          You are correct!  Thank you Kathryn!

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
            Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            smile

      69. word55 profile image76
        word55posted 8 years ago

        No Kathryn, it doesn't go away just like that. It comes up occasionally and in a big way just like when First Lady, Michelle Obama made that "slaves" statement in her speech. I had not known that the White House was built by slaves. I simply thought that they deserved the credit. Slave owners never thought ahead that all people would be recognized as equal in all areas of life. http://hubpages.com/education/How-To-Im … -Relations

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
          Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          why not, word55? Why would she bring that up?
          It is IN THE PAST. Leave it there!!!
          Why did she mention it anyway. To make what point?
          We are here in the present. The past makes no difference in the light of REALITY!!!!

          1. IslandBites profile image68
            IslandBitesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Maybe YOUR reality.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
              Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Reality is the same for all.

        2. dianetrotter profile image62
          dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          And they never thought they would father children from the slaves they raped.  I worked with a Black teacher who goes back to West Virginia for family reunions with the Thomas Jefferson descendants.  It took a while for them to be recognized but they are now included in the reunions.  I don't know how individuals feel but they are all captured on the family picture.

          This showed Thomas Jefferson was
          1.  a rapist
          2.  unfaithful to his wife
          3.  a deadbeat dad
          4.  a hypocrite

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
            Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            see this focus on the past and how destructive it is?
            The reality is that these children/descendants were born and are unique individuals with talents and opportunities and are now free of the past.

            1. dianetrotter profile image62
              dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I don't think it was destructive.  I think it showed that Thomas Jefferson was human, flawed and made some.  It was not just him.  Last year, we found that our ancestry name, Robinson, should be Dalrymple.  It is a pretty unusual name.  We are in contact with several of them.

              Today, kids have a right to know who their blood parents are.  DNA tests allow us to piece together the reality of our unknown past.  We have a committee working on our history.  We have found many things to be proud of in our ancestry.  We take the good with the bad.  Our family has doctors, lawyers and businessmen from the late 1800s and early 1900s that lost track of each other after their parents came out of slavery.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                well, Good! I wish I knew my past. All I know is that my ancestors fled Scotland for some reason or other. My parents taught us to move forward.  So, on the other hand, it's fine I do not know my past. Would it change me one way or the other to know whether or not I am actually a Mc Donald? Probably better to not know! yikes
                "… there is still a large powerful contingent of the McDonald family which is connected to the Mystery Religions, and which has family members who are part of the Illuminati. Each of the major Scottish clans had an area that they controlled of Scotland. The McDonalds controlled the islands and coastal areas on the west coast of Scotland. When the Knights Templars fled persecution, in order to escape the various British fleets, they sailed a route that took them to western Scotland. During the time of King Philippe IV of France, the McDonalds were involved in the movement of the Knights Templars. The Knights Templars had adopted gnostic/satanic practices and during the centuries they guarded the pilgrims in the Middle East. The Order had also become the International Bankers of Europe and large landowners in Europe. The King of France twisted the Pope’s arm (so to speak) to get him to go along with a campaign to eliminate the Knights Templars. Because the McDonald clan was in private still pagan, they were willing to help the Knights Templar escape the Pope’s decree against the Templars." etc here:
                http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/blood … donald.htm

                1. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  It sounds like you know quite a bit about your family.  I have heard so many things about the Illuminati but I don't know a lot about it.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    Ha ha that article was a real spin.  I know nothing.

              2. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                The racists want to vilify brave warriors like Jesse Williams and Colin Kaepernick for the crime of boldly standing up for the people. Yet, they will freely celebrate murderers,make excuses, and have grand parades  for rapists and pedophiles like Jefferson and Columbus. This only further reveals the evil heart of America. And to answer your question that you posted earlier: Yes, I maintain that a majority of white Americans are either indifferent to the plight of our people, or they are simply racist. And I further maintain that it has always been this way. The cavalier and hateful responses we have seen in this Forum are only a testament to the truth I have spoken. There is life after life. And in the next life, I will see you there. But I promise, you will see very few Americans in Heaven. They would not like it there anyway, as there is no evil to glorify in Heaven.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  "But I promise, you will see very few Americans in Heaven. They would not like it there anyway, as there is no evil to glorify in Heaven." wB

                  Don't you think this is a little over the top? Good grief. yikes

                  1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
                    wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13183681.jpg

                    No,I do not, as I am a reasonable man. You make a mockery of my words, and I understand it has become a great sport here on Hubpages to shoot the piano player. But I will now remind of what is a "little over the top". Read, Learn, and Move a Muscle

                    • Shooting and killing a 12 year old child in Cleveland Ohio who is playing with a toy gun in public, within 3 seconds of arriving at the scene. This is over the top.

                    • An evil Ohio grand jury allowing the murderer of Tamir Rice to go free. This is over the top.

                    • Since before the time of Emmett Till, the ability of cowardly white Americans to torture and kill children of color with impunity. This is over the top.

                    • Working class Americans whose sons and daughters have been used as cannon fodder by a ruling elite since the Revolutionary War; misguided individuals who continue to swear allegiance to the killers of their own children, their own oppressors. This is over the top.

                    • General Dynamics receiving a $65.3 million contract to support the  Iraq M1A1 Abrams program. The  U.S. approved sale of $600 million in M1 tank ammunition to Iraq. The sale of  $579 million worth of Humvees to Iraq. The sale of $600 million in Howitzers and trucks to Iraq. The sale to $700 million worth of Hellfire missiles to Iraq. This is called the business of war. This is over the top.

                    • The murder of 2,996 American citizens on 9/11 by elements within the U.S. government; mass murder used as a means of laying a foundation for the opening of a pipeline of gold to Iraq. This is over the top.

                    • Professing Christianity while refusing to carry the cross of Jesus; reviewing bank statements while children lie bleeding in Cleveland, Aleppo, and Palestine; children torn apart by bullets and weaponry made in America. This is hypocrisy. This is a little over the top. And this is a one way ticket to Hell.

                    1. Live to Learn profile image59
                      Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      roll

                2. dianetrotter profile image62
                  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  WB, there is a lot that we can't change.  I thank God that his love is unchanging.  I ask him daily to empty me of my spirit and fill me with His Spirit.

                  We must forgive, even when others don't forgive.  God has blessed me and continues.  I try to show my appreciation by being obedient to His Word.

                  I have learned a lot from you and understand your anger.  Do you think God might be pleased if you forgive.  He is the Righteous Judge and handles injustice in His own time.

                  Gotta go to bed!

                  Be blessed WB!

            2. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
              wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              You asked earlier about the definition of materialism. Look around you Katherine. The United States is the most accurate definition of materialism.

              I am a "True Color" kind of guy! It is good when people reveal their true colors, instead of holding hands, swaying back and forth, and singing  "We Are The World", while continuing to enjoy the spoils of Colonialism. You admit in your commentary that you find the truth to be  "destructive". The evil government of Arizona feels the same way. But there are only three alternatives to the truth.

              1. We can cover the truth with a lie
              2. We can simply ignore the truth
              3. Or we can add a nice helping of sugary sweet frosting to make it go down better.

              Which do you prefer? Door number 1, 2, or 3?

              Furthermore, I find it remarkable that you find the rape of black slaves ( translation: women, human beings) to be acceptable since their descendants are living in the "land of opportunity". Do you also find the rape of white women by black men equally as acceptable?

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Rape is never acceptable since it is violently disregarding the will of another. However, once the child is born and is somehow cared for, raised and grows up, something is going right. That something must be valued, no matter how small. Positivity must be acknowledged: Positivity over negativity in all cases.

      70. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
        Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

        In the light of reality, we can accept we are all the same: spiritual beings. We are spiritual beings animating these bodies. This is what we must focus on, beyond what we see. The problem with cops and those outside the law is that they do not master their nervous systems / reactions to life. They do not assess situations correctly. This is where we need to look for answers: The ability to know more than what meets the eye. How?
        Through self-mastery toward comprehending reality, not what one imagines.

      71. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
        Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

        4. Understanding the truth in the light of reality. For instance. Why are some skins darker than others?
        Look at the conditions which contributed to evolution: In Africa, where the sun was constantly blazing, the skin required more melanin to protect the inhabitants from the sun.  Really what more do you need to know? Back in slavery days, Others took advantage of the ignorance of the times. We no longer do. We accept what happened and move on. What does it help to stew in a pot of vinegar?

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image71
          wrenchBiscuitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Since you have moved on, then I expect to see you at Standing Rock, and the next Columbus Day protest. I also expect that you will be petitioning the government to honor all broken treaties. Besides, this is what "peaceful protest" looks like Katherine. Would you prefer the alternative?

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
            Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            ~ what if there was no protest at all?
            If you ask me to petition for broken treaties, that seems reasonable. What would that involve?
            EDIT Actually, its probably impossible/impractical. The original Asian immigrants can join us. They have full invitation. (There is another thread for you: "Why the OAI people don't just join us." Many have. They are probably better off than those who have stayed on the land given.)

            "Alternative:" If you are referring to anger and violence, what a pathetic waste of energy.
            Most things in life can be had for the price of the effort.
            Maybe we just need to remember, in our minds, to "Carry On!" no matter who or what seems to be standing in our way.
            Not easy to do, but the law is on our side if we are on the law's side.
            Do you think none of us have issues of SOME TYPE of discrimination?
            I do! Every one of us does. Who do you know that is
                         Oh, So Privileged
                        ????????????????

      72. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
        Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

        ~ materialism: We need certain things for survival. We don't need too much or too little. We all have roles to play. Modern life contains things which help us fulfill the roles we have taken on as far as life decisions and our financial obligations. What do we live for? money or love? Ultimately, materialism without love is no fun anyway. Same with love and no money… or car. smile

       
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