North Korea threatens Hawaii with missles launching July 4th-ish.

1. 0

   sandra rinckposted 15 years ago

   What the hell!  Someone please tell what crawled up North Korea's a*s and why hasn't the United Nations done anything to stop them.
   
   Screw their friggin threats to make war if we even look at what they are doing, they are obviously a threat so why is the world letting it come to this?
   
   Does America have the capability to actually intercept a missile NK does indeed do what they said they were going to do?
   
   Where the heck is Hillary when you need.  I know, she is at home with a busted elbow. 
   
   How can anyone in Hawaii be reassured that they will be safe from them the already given threat to bomb them?
   
   Where is the friggin easy button.  North Korea is a threat to all nations.  What's his face is what I call pure evil why can't  anyone stop them?

   replyreport
   1. 60

      curiozitiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      The Useless Nations couldn't stop a fly if it had a swatter in one hand and a can of Raid in the other.

      replyreport
   2. 71

      ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Well let's see.  Big Il is going to abdicate the Hermit Throne to his youngest son, Little Il.  So that's what's crawled up N Korea's A$$. 
      
      The world is letting this happen because China will allow nothing to come close to the Yalu River.  China has always gone over the borders whenever anyone has come close to its borders.  That and they don't have the stones to force a regime change.
      
      As for intercepting the missile, we'll have to see about that.  We've been testing a system for a while now, the big question is will it work in a real combat situation.
      
      It's a good thing Hillary is out of the picture.  The last thing we need is someone like her messing with a situation like this.
      
      How can anyone in Japan or South Korea be assured that they'll be safe?  Ever spare a thought for them?
      
      There is no easy button.  We either have the courage to go in there and get those crazies out of power or we have to live with their craziness.  Binary solution set.

      replyreport
      1. 60

         tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         One of the biggest reasons we haven't and probably won't just go in and take out that nut is that no matter what whuppin' we put on the crazy-ass hermit kingdom, Seoul would be toast and Tokyo in grave danger.

         replyreport
2. 64

   Mishaposted 15 years ago

   Well, even if all this is not just a bluff, chances are the missile never is able to reach Hawaii and either fall into the ocean or explode in flight - don't forget, NK is a socialist country, and been socialist for more than I care to remember.

   replyreport
   1. 56

      Christenstockposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting Misha...I was on the first team that conducted the first shipboard "exoatmospheric" theatre ballistic missile test: FTR-1 to FM-5 aboard the finest USS Lake Erie... Missiles can hit their targets directly on point at over mach speeds. Now imagine trying to intercept that with another missile. Nevertheless, I believe we are fully capable of protecting our highest interests.

      replyreport
      1. 64

         Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Properly designed, built, kept, and launched missiles Chris. I bet it is not the case here.

         replyreport
         1. 56

            Christenstockposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Nothing close to perpetrating the types of technology measures we use to detect, deter, and destruct. I live in HI and I have nothing to worry about...except how big the surf will be tomorrow.

            replyreport
3. 60

   tksenseiposted 15 years ago

   Kim Jong-Il is on the way out and they are trying to look 'strong' before a change of leadership.

   replyreport
4. 0

   girly_girl09posted 15 years ago

   It's an extremely frightening thought, but haven't they been saying this forever? I'm all for increasing security in Hawaii,especially if they are making statements that include a specific date, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it...that's Hilary's job.

   replyreport
5. 58

   HealthCare Basicsposted 15 years ago

   Okay Kim Jong, or whoever of North Korea. Does he not look like a QUEEN gone wrong??? This is a twit who has been on drugs for a long time due to failing kidneys or liver. I suspect the kidneys myself. He is paranoid, hallucinating, and evil. His power is ultimate in the country, and I fear we may be heading into another battle, if the threat has substance.

   replyreport
   1. 60

      tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think so. They long ago learned the easy way that they can play the world for chumps by making noise like a big child. I don't think they are really prepared to make that last nihilistic step, because even they can't be so stupid as not to know that B follows A.
      
      
      But you never know...

      replyreport
   2. 73

      AEvansposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I second that..

      replyreport
6. 58

   HealthCare Basicsposted 15 years ago

   Hope so, but the internet is saying the US is now tracking a NKorean ship and asking all UN participants to participate in the tracking of other NKorean ships.
   
   Maybe this is a precautionary tactic for our administration...Hopefully.....

   replyreport
7. 60

   tksenseiposted 15 years ago

   The ship is a much bigger threat than a missle at Hawaii.

   replyreport
8. 58

   HealthCare Basicsposted 15 years ago

   True.......

   replyreport
9. 58

   HealthCare Basicsposted 15 years ago

   Rumor is his son is even more dangerous, a bit tilted on reality. Though I don't think anyone has had the pleasure of actually meeting him...........

   replyreport
   1. 60

      tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Lots of people have met him. He's real fond of Disneyland.

      replyreport
10. 58

    HealthCare Basicsposted 15 years ago

    Really... Good to know his genes come from dictatorship and he likes animation.... Freud would have had a field day with that family...

    replyreport
11. 60

    tksenseiposted 15 years ago

    Potentially more bat-shit crazy than his old man or his grandfather.

    replyreport
12. 71

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    No the reason we don't go in is because China would come galloping across the Yalu river again.  Last time we wiped out the NK army.  It was the Chinese that were giving us fits.

    replyreport
13. 60

    tksenseiposted 15 years ago

    China's a concern but only one of many.

    replyreport
14. 71

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    Really, TK, what are some of the others?

    replyreport
    1. 60

       tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       For starters, no matter what else happened Seoul would almost certainly be toast and some significant damage to Japan would be very likely. The political and economic aftermath would be another. A significant difference today with any potential confrontation with China is that we now have the mutually assured destrcution thing going on and the difference between our conventional military forces is enormous.

       replyreport
15. 71

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    Chinese do not think the same as we do.  McArthur thought he could go all the way to the Yalu river and not provoke a Chinese response.  Evidence suggests that our British friends tried to warn us, but we didn't listen.  China is the Middle Kingdom.  To their eyes, they are the only civilized nation in the world.  In fact, it's the duty of the Chinese to spread civilization around the world.  It's not much different than what the ultranationalists thought in Japan prior to the Second World War.
    
    Um, I don't think the North Koreans care about Seoul.  Besides the South Koreans have been practicing for this sort of thing for over fifty years.  I forget what day it is, the day the North invaded, I think that they set off every warning alarm in the country and go to local shelters. They have shelters for the entire country.  Not even the Russians were able to do that at the height of the Cold War.  And Russians are paranoid about the thought of invasion.  It's not like they haven't lost Seoul before.  They'd rebuild and after the war, they'd go on.  They did it last time.
    
    War always blows.  It's always destroys and always turns men into animals.  That's why we should avoid it whenever possible.  I'm not so sure it's possible here.  Some people will push a thing until they're forced to stop.  The longer you wait, the more force you have to use.  I think that applies in this situation. 
    
    Also, I don't think that you consider how far ahead the Chinese think.  They don't think in terms of quarters, years or even decades, but centuries.  They think in generational terms.  That's one of the main reasons they let Big Il shoot off at the mouth.  It distracts everyone and gives China the chance to look as if they are being a responsible member of the international community.  It gives them brownie points among diplomats that they use go gloss over the brutality of their system.  Sure they're not as brutal as they once were because they've liberalized somewhat, but they're still brutal.
    
    Just be glad they don't have much of a Navy.  We'd wipe the floor with the one they have now.  If they ever do get one I'd be worried about Hawaii and Alaska, either or both would make a great forward base.

    replyreport
    1. 60

       tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       That's offensive, of course they do. Very much so, in fact.

       replyreport
    2. 60

       tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Yeah, 500 years ago or so.
       
       
       
       You are absolutely wrong. That is just about the complete opposite of what an understanding of the country and its history suggests. The only thing China is trying to spread around the world is ways to make profit.

       replyreport
    3. 60

       tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Is that why they have thousands upon thousands of missles pointed at the city primed to fire at a moment's notice?
       
       
       Have you ever even spoken to someone who is or has been in the South Korean military?

       replyreport
    4. 60

       tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       How big of you to 'accept' hundreds of thousands of deaths among one of our most important allies.

       replyreport
16. 71

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    You really don't get it do you?  That's offensive.  Jeez what sort of bubblehad school did you go to?  I'm sure that if I told a Chinese that I was a quah loh (barbarian) they'd very much agree with me.  Heck they'd agree with me if I told them that you were a quah loh.  Did you bother to read how they think differently from us or did you shut everything down after the first sentence?  Chinese think in generational terms.  If you want to understand them then you have to think in generational terms too.  God save me from liberal bubbleheads.

    replyreport
    1. 60

       tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Well for one, I taught at the Xi'an University of Architecture and Technology for two years.
       
       
       
       You need some better books.

       replyreport
    2. 60

       tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       You do yourself no favors to go on about how a people you are apparently completely unfamiliar with 'think,' and you compound the offense in implying that somehow as human beings 'they' think differently from 'us.'
       
       
       Oh, and if you think I'M a liberal, you are further off the mark than I had thought.

       replyreport
17. 59

    goldentoadposted 15 years ago

    rockhead vs. rockhead!

    replyreport
    1. 71

       ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       So what's the answer then?  If you're so smart.  Or is that the best you can come up with.  You never progressed far beyond the schoolyard did you?

       replyreport
       1. 59

          goldentoadposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Nope. Now what?

          replyreport
       2. 60

          tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Why keep trying to tell everyone else how "smart" they are or what their education is? That is a poor approach.

          replyreport
18. 71

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    You taught at a tech school.  Of course exceptions were made for you.  You were giving the Chinese people what they needed.  A modern infrastructure.  China form most of the 20th century was the whipping boy of the rest of the world.  They've corrected those deficiencies. My question, however was not where you taught but what schools, you yourself, went to.

    replyreport
    1. 60

       tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       LOL! The uninformed assumptions are amusing. You read the name of the school and assumed you knew more. That is just lazy thinking. You are speaking of things you do not know and have never experienced.

       replyreport
19. 71

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    Now I know to ignore you as an ignorant moron, thanks for playing.

    replyreport
    1. 59

       goldentoadposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       What do I win Bob?

       replyreport
    2. 59

       goldentoadposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Are you going to take the DNA test to prove you are really my Dad or are you going to continue to shun me even though I look like you? Although a younger version.

       replyreport
20. 76

    Shadesbreathposted 15 years ago

    LeDefense: you paint billions of people with a single "they" brushstroke too easily to be taken seriously.  That "they" thinking is the sort of thing that creates war. If by "they" you mean "some" of the leaders, sure.  But by making sweeping statements that totally ignore the fact "they" are human beings with dreams and hopes and desires like every other human being, with the capacity for individual thought and, here's a generalization for you, the desire to just live their lives and raise their children, you undermine the points you make.  I'm not saying there is not political set who may or may not harbor the ideas and ideals you state, but it seems you are trying to make the case that there is, like, some genetic predispotion and/or national mindwashing program that makes "them" all mindless automatons.  That's the same sort of small-minded thinking that Pgrundy just wrote about in her Iran protests hub. It's one thing to monitor potential threats; it's another thing to think you know what several billion people think.
    
    And, Sandra, yes, we can shoot that missle down.

    replyreport
    1. 0

       Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Thank God for Shades. 
       
       LDT I believe is a smart guy--just reads a lot of old books--that reads like some old Kissinger era stuff.
       
       I won't even go into the issues with TK.  Very interesting his mention of education here, though. Especially the way he conducts himself.

       replyreport
       1. 60

          tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          *sigh*
          
          If you would like to know about my education you could just ask instead of guessing in a petty attempt at insult.

          replyreport
21. 71

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    How does anything what I said smack of "mindless automatons"?  People have different views on things.  Look at the forums here for God's sake. Yes most people have hopes and dreams and expectations.  Most of these are shared across time and space by humans, it's part of what it means to be human.  The other part is us vs them.  It's present in all people's during all times of history.  It's a survival trait.
    
    Why do you think Mexicans call Americans gringo?  It doesn't just mean foreigner either.  Think Homer Simpson only dumber.  Japanese call non-Japanese gaijin, Chinese call non-Chinese quah loh.  Heck even the Greeks considered non-Greeks to be barbarians, same thing with the Romans and non-Romans.  Need I go into Gentile vs Jew or Muslim vs infidel?  Us vs them.
    
    
    
    Oh I have this horrible habit or reading books from pre-Kissinger days.  He must be so disappointed in me.    Seriously though, if you want to understand a people you have to read their writings, literature preferably.  Literature is where the people of a certain geographic era or time write about their hopes, dreams, fears and everyday life.  From that you find that yes, we do have certain universal traits that make us human, literature and music are two examples, but the way they play out in the real world is of infinite variety.
    
    If us vs them were genetics based or national based or something like that the US would never have been able to survive.  Here, unlike most of the world, we don't have a common religion, history or "culture" whatever that means.  What we do all share, or at least have shared in the past, is a belief in liberty and natural rights that are derived from natural law.  To people from other countries on hubpages, do you have a history of barn raising?  Everyone in a community getting together and helping a family raise a barn.  There's no contract, no fees, about all you'll get paid is a good meal that seems to last all day.  What these people do get is trust.  Trust that by helping others, they in return will get help when they need it.  That's one of the reasons I believe the US has so many charities and gives so much help to others.

    replyreport
    1. 60

       tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Gaijin does not mean 'barbarian' and the word you are awkwardly romanizing is from Cantonese. Most of China speaks Mandarin (or a dialect thereof).

       replyreport
       1. 71

          ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          China has dozens of dialects and most Chinese speak several dialects.  Cantonese is common in the south, shanghaiese in the north and mandarin acts like a universal trade language.  I'm still pretty sure a Cantonese speaker would call us both quah loh.  I'll beg your forgiveness I don't know any characters so I'm reduced to roman lettering and pronunciation.

          replyreport
22. 80

    Sufidreamerposted 15 years ago

    Must agree with some of that - to understand Greeks (the study of many lifetimes), you have to understand their history. Many Greek cultural values can be traced back thousands of years.
    
    And..........you are all barbarians

    replyreport
23. 71

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    
    
    
    It's OK to take pride in your people.  I'm proud to be an American.  But I also understand that we owe a debt to those who have come before.  The Greeks for instance.  From them we get the basics of liberty without which we'd not be America.  Others benefit too, when modernizing Japan saw the basics of hard work in Americans at time and that gave them a reference to their culture from which they were able to reinvent themselves from a hermit kingdom to an industrial powerhouse.

    replyreport
    1. 80

       Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Don't worry, I am a hairy-arsed barbarian, too!
       
       Agree fully - there is nothing wrong with taking pride in your people, as long as it is taken in context. Too many countries (the UK is certainly one), concentrate upon their own history without realising that it always overlaps.
       
       Somebody learning Ancient Greek history has also to study the Persian Empire. A historian of the future, studying US 20th Century history, will also need to study the USSR.
       
       For me, that is the fascinating part but, as Shades says, it has to be taken away from nationalistic fervour.

       replyreport
    2. 60

       tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Are you saying Japan didn't know the value of hard work until they were able to bask in the glow of America's example?
       
       
       And just what modernizing are you referring to?

       replyreport
       1. 71

          ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Can you read English?  "Japan saw the basics of hard work and recognized them"  Um that doesn't sound like I'm calling them lazy before they met Americans.  Are you sure you can read?
          
          I'm not sure if you realize this but in the late 1800's Japan was still a feudal state.  Then this guy Meiji took the throne and started to send the Japanese out to study the West and bring what they learned back to Japan.  It was part of the Meiji restoration.  Being a supposedly superior student of the East, surely you've come across the term before?  I hope that university got their money's worth out of you.
          
          Hell TK, if I don't care that Lita uses the work spic why should you?

          replyreport
          1. 0

             Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             He hates my narcissistic guts, LDT.  He's not as nice a conservative/libertarian (?) as you.  lol

             replyreport
             1. 71

                ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                I have to admit I'm a bit ashamed by the way I'm acting, but there's something about that kind of an attitude that sets me off every time.  It's the condescending know it all attitude that doesn't even try to see where you're coming from.  It's usually the mark of an inferior intellect.  Shoot, there I go again.  Usually I'm better than this.  Well you know, you've read enough of my stuff. 
                
                Still I have to admit that I get some guilty pleasure from bashing him around.  Most of the people I disagree with don't know any better and it can be frustrating dealing with that, but guys like this, well now I have something to work out my frustrations out on.  So it's all good.
                
                Thanks for the compliment, by the way.  See TK, most people can disagree on things yet remain civil towards one another.  You could profit by our example.

                replyreport
                1. 0

                   Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   He does it to all sorts of people here, LDT.  Trust me.  He seems to focus on women, liberals, smart people and Mark Knowles....  I found myself in the same situation and acting the same way.
                   
                   I think he's doing it on purpose (trolling).  I cannot imagine what he's getting out of it.  You sure don't learn anything new from this sort of communication...or learn to respect another perspective.  I gravitate towards smart people, period, no matter what their status/point of view.

                   replyreport
          2. 60

             tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             No, I had never heard of the Meiji Restoration. Thanks so much for sharing that super-secret information...
             
             
             ...yikes...

             replyreport
          3. 60

             tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             I care because the use of racial epithets perpetuates the underlying stereotypes and divisions.

             replyreport
             1. 71

                ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                Perhaps I consider it insulting that you are so condescendingly sure that I'm being attacked by racial slurs.  You might get all your panties in a bunch when when people call you names, but some of us are adults.  We left the playground long ago.  Grow up.

                replyreport
                1. 60

                   tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   I wasn't thinking of you personally at all.

                   replyreport
24. 0

    Leta Sposted 15 years ago

    Agree with you, LDT...  I believe offense was being taken at your choice of wording.  But I know you have more depth than that from what I've seen.  Culture and its historical context makes a huge impact on people, I've always ascertained.  I believe Shades would say, , and I would agree, that the current pendulum swings towards viewing people through a universal humanitarian lens (and thankfully).
    
    I have always had friends of different races--the gringos, the spics, the chinks, lol (don't someone get offended--a joke, pls.)  The one thing that seems to separate them from others is the level of education - I think that the intelligentsia/artistic types have something of their own code that transcends these 'traditional' (and they are - I grant you that) racial and ethnic divides.  I'll even go so far as to say TK and his experiences fit into this mold, if I'm generous, lol.
    
    And I absolutely, absolutely agree with you about literature/art - a huge tool to connect humanity. That's one of the reasons I practice it. Read Gao Xing Jian?  Book is on my desk right now. 

    replyreport
    1. 60

       tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       It's not funny to use racial epithets as a joke.

       replyreport
25. 76

    Shadesbreathposted 15 years ago

    I don't have the energy or interest to write the response I would have to to address what needs addressing up there.  The bottom line is there is a difference between having a leader/leaders whipping up an "us vs. them" fervor and what actually resides in the human mind/soul.  A fire like that needs fuel (fear or threats).  Continuously.  Otherwise it does not exist.
    
    
    And yes, Lita, I would say that... and I hope we are right in thinking it... It is my great hope that the freedom of information that is taking place with modern technology continues.  The more we speak to one another across borders the harder it is to hate.  There's simply too much in common... as the above converstation about literature implies.

    replyreport
26. 71

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    You won't get much argument from me Lita.  As for wording, well I think by now word should be getting out that I'm not very PC.  Which is how I like it.  Humanitarianism tells us how we're alike, but doesn't tolerate differences too well.  Another part of being human is the need to eliminate the differences between us and them.  Unfortunately people like to take the supposedly simpler way out and try to force people to be like them.  That only works for a time.  Sooner or later people revolt.  Much better to understand that we're all different and can live, worship and believe as we choose, while allowing others to do the same.

    replyreport
    1. 0

       Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Completely agree.  And it's actually so much more interesting and colorful to see and experience life, too.
       
       I'd point out that wanting everybody "to think alike" and the PC stuff is a stereotype of liberals.  This may be true of some liberals, but not all. 

       replyreport
       1. 76

          Shadesbreathposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I just finally saw Clint Eastwood's _Grand Torino_ the other day, speaking of that idea.  What a great movie.  An absolutely masterful job of addressing PC vs. real goodness.

          replyreport
    2. 60

       tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Differences exist and are very important. They exist between individuals, not races or nations.

       replyreport
27. 71

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    Shades probably doesn't know, but you should by now that I hate governments and just about all they stand for.  Nationalism is a perversion of a perfectly natural human conviction.  It's a good idea taken to an extreme. 
    
    Shades, the fear of the other is always there.  Politicians use it because it's the easiest method they have to unite people behind them.  I've lost track of the number of times people talk about dirty Mexicans around me, then when I tell them I'm part Mexican, they're like well you're different.  I'd say up to 80% of a population don't bother to question their prejudices.  That's a lot of people and that's why leaders whip them up. 
    
    We do agree on the information thing.  The Internet and communications devices did more than arms or armor to kill the abomination known as Communism.  Once people were able to talk to each other and compare notes, the Communist state had seen it's final days.  People really do want simple liberty, the ability to live their lives as they see fit.  The fall of Communism proved that.

    replyreport
    1. 0

       sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       okay, I am not all "socialist" savvy but when has "communism" not been part of the world?  There was never a fall in communism.  Think about it.  You really don't have to know every little detail about all the parties to know that communism has never died.

       replyreport
       1. 71

          ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          You are correct in a way Sandra.  Communism is the latest word to describe the idea that economies function best when there is a central authority to make decisions.  We've had that pretty much since the Jericho, the first town, began planting and wondered what to do with the surplus food.
          
          Opposed to that idea is that, sooner or later, central authorities become insular and corrupt, so central administration is not the best way to do things.  The opposite of centralized is decentralized organization.  That can be a scary thing for some people because it implies a loss of control.  Lack of control is not always a bad thing. 
          
          To give you an example.  The Pilgrims were a communistic society.  For the first two years of their existence they shared and shared alike.  The problem with that is people will only work so hard.  Since there is not a reward for working harder they'll do just enough to get by.  It's no surprise that over half the colonists died over the first winter. 
          
          As soon as they scrapped that compact and let people keep what they harvested, people worked much harder and stored more food for the winter and were able to trade to make up shortages for what they needed.  Famine did not reoccur in the Plymouth Colony.

          replyreport
28. 76

    Shadesbreathposted 15 years ago

    Good, we do agree on some stuff.  But I don't think "the fear is always there" as you suggest.  I think that if we, as animals, have adequate resources and space to survive and rear our families, there is no abiding fear.  Only the capacity to defend our loved ones and resources is there.  I do not think that capacity is the same as having resident fear within.  Fear is the spark that activates that capacity, but sparks need to be struck into being by something first.

    replyreport
29. 71

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    Fear diminishes as you get used to something.  That's why the Italians and Irish, two groups that were despised during their mass immigration to this country, are now accepted members of society, whereas the Mexicans and Muslims, let's say, are viewed with fear.  It's not the first time for my mother's people.  Mexicans have been viewed with fear since at least the Texas revolution.  In fact some of my ancestors fought on the side of Texas in that war.  It didn't keep Americans from fearing them and driving them from Texas.  In fact, a brigade of Irish fought for the Mexicans during the Mexican American War.  They deserted over the treatment they got at the hands of people in the American Army.  Now Irish are police and firemen, they've integrated totally into society.  Americans as a whole have also adopted Irish cultural staples:  potatoes, St. Patrick's Day, some elements of Halloween, etc.  Same with other cultures.  We adopt their food first usually, then music, then literature.  While we adopt cultural baggage from them, they assimilate into our national life.
    
    That's what I dislike about multiculturalism and things like La Raza, my God do I hate La Raza.  Rather than allowing people to decide which cultural pieces they wish to assimilate, they're forced to take the whole kit n' caboodle.  This will always lead to conflict.  Look at religious wars.  Forced conversions are a prime example of what I'm talking about.  Even forced people still find a way to worship as they wish.  Look at the secret Jews during the Wars of Religion or the Rice Christians during the Tokugawa era in Japan.  All the edits from above didn't stop them from worshiping as they saw fit.
    
    La Raza is also a detriment to the Mexicans trying to integrate into the US.  Like it or not English is the most used and understood language in the US.  While I know Spanish and can somewhat converse or understand Italian and French (sometimes), if I want to be understood I speak English.  Just like when I'm in Mexico, I speak Spanish.  Small minded power hungry people in charge of things like La Raza don't care about that, they only care about power.  They use the us vs them thing to accumulate it.  Just like politicians do.  It's about power when you really get down to it.

    replyreport
30. 60

    lxxyposted 15 years ago

    NK is merely a puppet like China.
    
    The Wall may have fallen, but the Curtain still remains.
    
    They won't shoot at us, unless their Soviet commanders tell them to. And believe me, Russia's not quite ready.

    replyreport
    1. 64

       Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       LOL Exactly the kind of fear LDT was talking about

       replyreport
    2. 60

       tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Whoa, a time capsule from the 80s has popped open.

       replyreport
31. 80

    Sufidreamerposted 15 years ago

    Ixxy - This part of the world is getting a little tasty, too. As has happened so many times, the Balkans is the scene of a lot of sabre-rattling between the major powers. Quite worrying to those of us who live here
    
    The Cold-War never really went away, just morphed into something else

    replyreport
    1. 60

       lxxyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       You are quite right Sulfi, it struck my head a couple of years ago...I was reading a Times magazine article about Boris and his buddy he put into the thrown next.
       
       What's the best way to fool your adversaries? Act like you're afraid of them, and play into their hands....while blinding them from the backside.

       replyreport
32. 71

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    That's the problem with living at a crossroads of civilizations.  Ask the Levant how much they like it.  As much as I love history and scholarship, I'm glad for the New World.  We've gotten away from much of that.

    replyreport
33. 80

    Sufidreamerposted 15 years ago

    It certainly is a bit of a three-way battle at the moment - The US, Russia and the EU. Russia is using the economic influence of gas, and the US is following the old policy of 'containment.' The EU dangles EU membership as an incentive - a bit messy, and Kosovo could well be the flashpoint.
    
    LDT - I can see that, although isolationism can mean that you miss out on all of the interesting stuff - the history of the future!

    replyreport
34. 71

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    All I can see right now is how, through isolationism, we didn't destroy two generations of kids in the Great War and Great War part 2.  Besides we did rather well for ourselves before we tried to forge an empire.  People liked us much more too.  I'd like to see those days again before I die.  Personally I'd be happy observing history, not actively take part in it.

    replyreport
    1. 60

       lxxyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       That my friend is an awesome quote, keep it.
       
       Sulfi:
       
       I don't believe it's a three way battle, to be honest. I think it's a well orchestrated game, but the battle has already been won behind closed doors. Right now the world is busy creating a NAU and a PAU...or better put,
       
       North American Union and Pan-Asian Union.
       
       It's good to have bullies on the block, you see, like North Korea or Russia...to give us peasants cause to band together.

       replyreport
35. 80

    Sufidreamerposted 15 years ago

    Amen to that - For now, enjoy life - drink, dance and talk. Worrying about the world is for another day

    replyreport
36. 80

    Sufidreamerposted 15 years ago

    Ixxy - Could well be, although the main thing is that the Balkans are caught between the two or three competitors.
    
    Energy is certainly a large part of it, some of the old alliances are still apparent, and there is the friction between the 'Muslim' world and the 'Western' world. Very messy.
    
    Interesting times

    replyreport
    1. 71

       ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Heck Sufi, you guys taught the West the value of shock troops vs raiding troops.  Your phalanxes were the mechanized infantry of the ancient world.  Nobody could stop you once you got a good head of steam going.

       replyreport
37. 60

    lxxyposted 15 years ago

    I certainly agree Sulfi, certainly agree.
    
    I'm ready for people to start "getting" all the free energy around them.
    
    Not to mention, I do believe that zero point energy is around the corner to becoming a consumer product.
    
    They've had it for awhile, but it's kinda funny with this sort of stuff...I mean, how do you not destroy a country's economic system when so much is dependent on providing electrons via power lines and service charges?

    replyreport
38. 60

    lxxyposted 15 years ago

    I'd have to agree.
    
    Gawd, us history geeks.. ;D

    replyreport
39. 80

    Sufidreamerposted 15 years ago

    lol - interesting conversation.
    
    LDT - I am actually English, with Norse ancestry (hence the hairy arsed Barbarian reference - it is true!). The tactics there were to hit somebody over the head with a big axe!
    
    True, though - the Greek infantry was unstoppable for a long period. Mustn't forget the Persians, too. Their military prowess was undeniable, but the Greeks outsmarted them on a couple of occasions!

    replyreport
    1. 60

       lxxyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Troooojan hooorse. ;D Wait, that wasn't quite it...but hey, it was a devilish little plan.

       replyreport
40. 62

    BP9posted 15 years ago

    I don't know people...
    
    My gut tells me that Kim (RNK) is in no hurry to launch against the U.S. or U.S. interests.  Regardless of the fact that he is some evil dictator, he is a selfish a**wipe as well.  He lives luxuriously at the peril of millions of his people who live just above starvation-many who do actually starve to death.  He also knows that a launch against the U.S. will prompt a retaliatory launch, which will obliterate all that lends him his position: homes, wealth, workers...everything.
    
    What does he do then, hypothetically?  If he does launch and survive, he will be a man with no home.  He will have destroyed any support from his 'big brother,' China or 'uncle' Russia, because of their burgeoning position with relation to American corporate interests.  China has already voiced criticisms of Kim's actions.  For all his bluster, I don't think he wants to be a thorn in China's side...for obvious reasons.   
    
    I just don't believe he will do it.  Though I do believe he is wreckless, I just don't believe he is that stupid.
    
    Now, him posturing to make us believe he is developing some huge arsenal benefits him immensely, for exactly the reasons we are all discussing it.  He is able to then make all the world fear him as the "big, bad wolf" and create chaos.  I believe that true to this statement, he is playing "psych" games on us, and it is working, because it is causing us to think, strategize and theorize on his terms and not on a basic, instinctual, human level.
    
    Kim Jong Il is full of it...in my humble opinion.

    replyreport
41. 71

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    Look at Hitler.  Evidence suggests he was slowly but surely becoming a meth junkie over the course of the Big II.  In fact there is evidence to suggest that at two critical junctures he ordered his units to fight to the death and not retreat. a That euphoric sense of invincibility is a trademark symptom of methamphetamine abuse.  Kim Jong Il is known to use drugs.  And he has nukes.  Not a good combo.
    
    That's interesting Sufi, my dad's people are from Sweden.  Yep the land of Gustavus Adolphus his own self.  And Vikings.  You'd never be able to tell though, coloring-wise I take after my mom.

    replyreport
42. 60

    lxxyposted 15 years ago

    Again, to call Kim Jong Ill a "master" of anything, is to give the puppet more credit than he's due.
    
    I feel sorry for those who he has captured in his fiefdom, but he won't bite until the ringmaster tells him to.
    
    And that ringmaster, Russia, is not ready to let the cat out of the bag.
    
    Hopefully, he's not like Japan w/WWII and Pearl Harbour, though to call that something we didn't foresee is to believe in an Encyclopaedia entry written by people with ulterior motives.

    replyreport
43. 71

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    If anything, I'm kinda surprised Russia and China haven't gone a couple of rounds over the Amur river.  Of course China has nukes now so there you go.

    replyreport
    1. 64

       Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       They did. Back in 1960s.

       replyreport
       1. 71

          ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I know, what amazes me is that the US was mostly ignorant of that.  They thought the Soviets and China were rock solid communist comrades.  Politics.

          replyreport
44. 59

    Pete Maidaposted 15 years ago

    We cannot use land troops in that part of the world.  The troops we have there are a token and the best they could do is slow the enemy down.
    He is not a religous zealit which means he isn't willing to die for a higher power.  He knows he will die if he launches a major stike and I don't think he wants that to happen.
    I still have a feeling that this guy isn't as capable as he claims to be and he is angling for some kind of agreement.

    replyreport
45. 71

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    Oh it's assuredly for the benefit of his youngest son, Little Il as I like to call him.  Still from all reports, he's not very tightly wound.  You can't predict crazy.  At least with a religious zealot, there are some rules you can be sure they'll follow, with crazy?  There's no telling.

    replyreport
46. 64

    Mishaposted 15 years ago

    US is ignorant pretty much of everything that happens behind the borders. I guess this is one of the reasons you guys keep stepping into deep shit almost every time you try to do something overseas. Except for the cold war, which you definitely won - and this might in fact outweigh your failures.

    replyreport
47. 71

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    We really didn't have to do much during the Cold War.  Unfortunately the aid we gave the Soviets during World War II kept them in power for decades after they should have run the economy into the ground.  I can't say sorry because it kept you from falling to the fascists, but it also enabled those criminals to stay in power for decades more.  I figure the heyday of the Soviet system was in the 1950's.  We'd given them a shot in the arm with all the aid we sent, but after that decade they began a slow fade.

    replyreport
48. 64

    Mishaposted 15 years ago

    LOL you endured it, just outlived the USSR. Not for too long though I think, and this depression and possible civil war with the country break up is a result of Cold War in part, that seriously undermined your resources.
    
    And I don't there is anything to be sorry for American help during WWII, you guys did it with the best intentions and we do remember it, even after the cold war. It definitely helped a lot during the WWII. Our homemade criminals were still better than the foreign ones

    replyreport
    1. 71

       ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Our leaders made the "lets grab power while we can" choice during the Cold War.  We're going to see the results of that pretty soon.  I wonder how things are going in the Rodina right about now.  There was a time when you could hear all about it on the news.  I wonder if people there have started to trade their freedoms away for uncertain security.  I know Putin nationalized quite a few things, I wonder how he and his successor are getting along.  I've always felt he'd have a puppet succeed him.

       replyreport
49. 64

    Mishaposted 15 years ago

    I too think Medvedev is a puppet, but Putin is probably too. Puppeteers are always behind the scene
    
    But overall I think Russia is doing pretty good, despite of the crisis and a huge government direct and indirect share of economy, and I think the worst is over, at least for our generation.
    
    And it was not exactly nationalization, for what I understand it was more of passing the property from the old clan to successor.

    replyreport
50. 74

    Eaglekiwiposted 15 years ago

    USA and Russia dont trust each other too much.

    replyreport
    1. 64

       Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       LOL They both have good reasons for that

       replyreport
       1. 71

          ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I'd say there is more trust now that guys like Khrushchev aren't talking about burying us.

          replyreport