No use trying to have a conversation with most of the chair and table legs, here, either, . The level of this 'discourse' in America at this point is contemptible. I am embarrassed for us.
For the record, I have recently been called 'Hitler,' by a rightwing 'idealogue' (that's the kind word) here... The question I have is, do they know when their craziness goes too far, or are they really nuts and a danger to themselves and others?
Funny how the 'level of discourse' was just fine when it was Bush being portrayed as Hitler and the calm and peaceful opposition was burning cars, smashing windows, and throwing stones at police. What could have changed? Hmmm...
I thought the response to they question was honest, but a little rough. I don't know what the woman was expecting when she asked the question, but she got her response. She asked the question with hostility, and got a somewhat hostile response. I thought it was hilarious. Everybody always expects the dems to cower to the hostility of the town hall meetings. I think Frank was ready to rumble.
That's why most of us in Massachusetts love him. He is very smart and very capable and always speaks his mind. It isn't just conservative republicans who can rumble. I don't know if he could survive in many other states, but we're glad to have him in the Republic of Massachusetts.
I believe the term "nutjob" has been misapplied again as is the norm. Friut loop appears to be more appropriate, and should be applied to Barney. Notice when he gets angry he is almost the same color purple. But then again why is he getting angry at a constituant. Granted this woman was not as well informed as she may have been, not unlike the majority of the Democratic voting block, however with the number of half truths and blatant lies coming out of the mouths of these #&&HOles and this adminstration who could discern the real facts. Barney should stop tallking about this stupid Healthcare program, vote no and fix the mess he and Chris Dodd created with the sub prime mortgage situation. Get smart up there vote him out!
That woman was not a constituent. She was another FoxNews zombie who will parrot anything she hears from the right-wing without hesitation. If/when she grows up, she will be very embarrassed by her performance.
Just curious... do you also think the police force should be privatized? Fire department? You know, they tried the latter earlier in our country's history. If your house was on fire, and a fire truck from a rival company to the one you were paying drove by, they wouldn't stop to help. Imagine that with the police. Personal safety should not be left to capitalism. Health is part of personal safety.
No, I don't think "everything" should be privatized, only the neccessary to operate free. If the government fails to run "Cash for Klunkers", why would they be able to run healthcare? Do you not understand that our country was built on the free market and not government control?
The country was built on the free market. This is how we became the most powerful country. We were not founded on government controlled markets. Meeting the needs of the peoples freedom is the purpose of government. Not making the peoples decisions for them. Is this freedom to you?
Under the proposed plan, you would still be able to elect to have private insurance, if you'd rather. That seems plenty free to me.
It's just like, if I don't feel comfortable with the job the police are doing, I'm free to hire a private security force. But people who can't afford a bodyguard shouldn't be left to the mercy of crime.
Not sure why healthcare and police/firefighting seem so different in your head.
I ask again, do you think the government can handle health care when they can't run Cash for Klunkers?
-If they get a foot in the door to a government plan, they will only push for a single payer plan. Obama has already said he wants a single payer plan. Like Obama bullies everyone else, I'm sure he would bully the private insurance companies to get what he wants.
Of course. What was he supposed to do acknowledge that the woman's point was valid? Fox Zombies should be called out everytime they parrot their nonsense. Any respectfully submitted question should be answered respectfully. Any ridiculous question should be answered with ridicule.
I just watched Franks' Town Hall meeting replayed on CSPAN. When the crowd jeered him he attacked them. When they interrupted him with postive cheering, he patiently waited for them to finish before continuing.
He repeatedly referred to American companies that 'conducted activities overseas' (his words) as 'tax evaders' and suggested that billions of tax dollars could be extracted from these companies to keep Medicare solvent.
As a European I do not want to comment on U.S. politics. However, in this case I think this woman is insulting the millions of victims of the Nazi terror. This is really annoying to me.
The sad thing is that quite a lot of U.S. citizens died while defeating the Nazis and freeing Europe from Nazi terror. To compare a reform towards a more inclusive health care with Nazi policy is so off the point.
This is beyond any rational reasoning. Sorry, it is just utter stupidness and complete ideological blindness. The tragedy is that it was this very ideological blindness which made the German people so crazy and evil 70 years ago.
What she said is not any more inflammatory that what people have been yelling at Bush for the last 8 years. Turnabout is fair play and it's the democrats that are getting it now. I did notice that Frank didn't answer the question. He is the consumate politician, he avoids answering and diverts attention from his nonanswer by attacking and mocking the questioner. The repubs should really take lessons from him.
Oh my goodness. If a Republican Senator spoke to an Acorn representative like Frank talked to his constituents, MSNBC would be camping out in his front yard. Chris Matthews would have chills running up and down both legs.
Forgive me in advance, because this is a rant. Barney Frank is one of the biggest morons on capital hill. He made this comment in 2003:
"Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are not in a crisis. The more people, in my judgment, exaggerate a threat of safety and soundness, the more people conjure up the possibility of serious financial losses to the Treasury, which I do not see. I think we see entities that are fundamentally sound, financially, and, uh, withstand some of the disaster scenarios. And even if there were a problem, the federal government doesn’t bail them out. But the more pressure there is there, then the less I think we see in terms of affordable housing."
Sited: Associated Press,2003
He pushed for affordable housing and he got it. Imagine that he ended up being one of the biggest contributors to the bailout bill. Stating:
"We've made a lot of progress. I think the House and Senate Democrats have come to an agreement. Now we're going to talk to the Republicans,"
Sited: Reuters September 25, 2008
in regards to the bailout approved in September.
After this man has said a company is sound. And then later is one of the key authors of a bailout that includes that same company, I am forced to think that he is an educated moron.
There is no educated moron that can be a hero, if even for a day
They made a good point on Bill Maher last week about how only Hitler should be compared to Hitler. Interesting how the same people who are accusing Obama of being Hitler, also accuse him of being a Communist and a raving Socialist. Hitler was a Fascist, so all these naysayers really should make up their minds lol.
He pokes fun of those making themselves look silly in the news. I do not agree with everything he says, but he sure makes some good points. Unlike Howard Stern who seems to like conservatives more and goes way over the top, Bill Maher actually knows how to conduct himself .
When and where did he say that? I am not doubting it, but honestly I never heard him say that. He is comedian, so not everything he says is respectful, but at least he is not always flaunting his weird sexual innuendos in front of the FCC like Stern did. I actually enjoy listening to comedians because I understand they poke fun at most public figures, and I am not overly sensitive about it. He simply made a good point about how ludicrous it is to compare Hitler and Obama. On one hand they think Obama is making our country too socialistic, but then people are calling him Hitler, the biggest Fascist of all time. Make up your mind because he cannot be both.
I thought Barney Frank only said out loud what lots of people are thinking. He's not a horrible guy or a wonderful guy, he's just a guy. It irritates me how every time any public figure says or does anything it's an invitation to character assassination, as if anyone here personally knows Barney Frank or ever will.
I think he's funny. I also thought he dropped the ball on credit card reform and helped pass a soft, token little bill. He's a politician. All politicians are good and bad.
The protesters at the town halls speak for a small group of really angry people, but the trouble is the rest of us can't be heard because they are so noisily waiving around their Hitler signs. Polls show that most people are really sick of that.
If he doesn't want to be accountable for his words he should STFU. If he mouths off to his bosses, he's gonna hear about it. If he doesn't want to be 'judged' he can find another line of work. I understand he has a knack for organizing escort services...
My sister voted for Bush just because her co-worker told her to. Even people who do not support the health care reform are sick of the vile depictions of Obama. If some one dared to depict Sarah Palin as Hitler you know that you would be in a tiff, but because it is Obama that is okay. Now that is hypocrisy also.
You constantly bring up off topic things. Interesting how you are mad when others do. By the way it was related, showing how anyone listening to loud protesters should maybe read and do their own research.
Maher is not outrageous by a long shot. He is irreverent, but he is a big enough of a boy to do it on HBO, and not flaunt the FCC rules on public radio. Why do you think Stern had to go to Sirius radio? Also, you failed to site the specific time he called Bush's wife Hitler's dog. I am just curious.
Ok, why the hell do you keep bringing up Stern? Who the hell BESIDES YOU has said ANYTHING about him? Do you not understand how a discussion works, or are you under the impression that Stern is some kind of conservative spokesman? Even if that were the case it would make no sense to keep bringing him up with no apparent relation to the discussion at hand.
My point is anyone can contribute to this forum the way they like, and you are not the moderator. I am focusing on the topic, and you can complain all you like, but I shall continue to contribute as I see fit.
The thing is I do discuss in a coherent and congenial manner, and often you are the one not doing so. This has been pointed out on numerous occasions, and I think the majority of it has to do with anyone expressing a divergent opinion to yours is considered off topic.
Jumping in here... I'd respectfully disagree with your characterization of your discussing skills. In the past, you have told us that "you are the source" and refused to interpret the data that you rely on. You are congenial, but not necessarily willing to pursue a point.
I would pretty much say the same to you that I have said to tk. I have said I am a good source for understanding data because you have always told me I do not know what I am talking about. The world community is not wrong when it comes to ranking health care systems, and your failure to see this is ideological, not statistical.
Basically anyone not exposing yours or tksensei conservative view points has been chastised for not understanding the facts on several occasions. So you can jump in, but it is simply showing more disrespect. However, that is okay, I do not expect those who stick together to listen to others expressing a different opinion.
tk has constantly asked people off topic questions or redirecting questions, and he does it to a large number of people. He tends to be a bit more well behaved towards those expressing the same view point, but the truth is neither of you seem to realize others do know their material, and your view point does not make the world go round.
Here's what supposed to happen in a discussion: "You don't understand the facts and here's why..."
What actually happens: "You don't understand the facts."
There's a significant difference.
I conclude from this that people can't support their points. I make a living teaching stuff to people and I almost never say "You don't understand the facts" and then walk away. That doesn't work in real life and doesn't work here.
I never said you do not understand the facts, but you have told every commentator here that supports single payer health care, or health care reform they are wrong. I also have my degree, so you are not the only one qualified to teach. I could if I wanted to, but I have not desire to honestly.
I didn't say you weren't qualified to teach. I also don't tell people I think they are wrong unless I can support my position in the same statement. You prefer not to do that. You have told us that "You are the source". That pretty much ends the convo.
However, if you went back and figured out why you said that, it had to do with your telling me I do not know what I am talking about. Honestly it is fine, you can care what you think, but I have read the reports and the data, and I am in support of health care reform. Yes that is slightly on the socialistic side, but studies and real world models have shown the Europeans and Canadians are doing much more for their people health care wise.
You on the other hand simply state Americans could afford their health care if they stopped having cell phones, cable tv, or any other luxury. Who are you to judge what people spend their money on, or even assume all without health care can afford these items? Your data is skewed in favor of conservatively fiscal politics, which objects to raising taxes on those who make more money.
The US ranked 37th in the world, and it is based on conclusive statics and findings. You argue if people just stop buying any luxury they can afford health care. I am sorry, but I find your comments a little biased towards those who do not make much money. Some one in your position really cannot empathize, or even realize many pay on their emergency room visits for years. You get sent to a collection agency if you do not pay these fees, which pretty much ruins your credit. Only in a greedy country should we allow insurance companies to amass that much control and power, and I am sorry but many Americans have seen the light about this.
Lita, earnest, and many others have. However, you have not listened to any of us. Honestly I do not care, but you cannot claim to be exactly respectful of those who post different opinions than yourself.
Ok, from here on out you tell me, "Remember when you asked me to tell you when you ask questions off topic? Well, you're doing it now," and I'll explain how the question relates to the topic or I'll admit that it's not. M'k?
See, here you are doing it again. Did I ever claim that I was "respectful of those who post different opinions than (my)self"? Was my personal respectfulness EVER the topic of this discussion?
People in the UK do not go bankrupt going to the doctor. They do not have to go to the emergency room for treatment because the NHS covers them to see a primary care physician. The UK leaders united to let Americans know they are tired of how some Americans have demonized the NHS. The negative and false ads against health care reform have irritated people overseas, so that should be a clue. These are all facts which help to show why America ranks lower, hence the ranking on the study. You have a large number of people with adequate health care, and a large segment who cannot afford to see the doctor. Waiting at an emergency room in Compton is not exactly like seeing a wealthy physician in Beverly Hills.
Well, the odds are there will be some sort of healthcare reform in the US and whatever passes will be what you will have to live with until you can vote the current government out of office. Much like those against Bush policies did.
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