"Gov't says stimulus saved or created 650,000 jobs": Yahoo!

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   fishskinfreak2008posted 14 years ago

   WE HAVEN'T SEEN MUCH EVIDENCE

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      Tom Cornettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      How many jobs will be lost next year when they run out of government funding?  When the big pigs run out of food...they eat the little pigs. 

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      MikeNVposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It's the Whitehouse PR machine trying to spin a positive light on their failure.  The created jobs were almost entirely within Government and State Government to be exact.  Teaching jobs for example that would not have been laid off otherwise. This allows States to make claims and divert funds to other projects that would have otherwise needed to be cut.
      
      When citizens make less they spend less. But the Government spends more.  Congress approved a 6% increase in their budget this year in spite of the economic situation.
      
      The perpetual debt model is simply not sustainable.
      
      http://hubpages.com/hub/What-is-the-Fed … c-Collapse

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   Poppa Bluesposted 14 years ago

   Well of course not! They can claim anything they want especially something like this which is unprovable. And where were these jobs they save or created? In government of course!! So all of those folks who are out of work and paying income taxes on their unemployment are supporting government workers!
   Thanks government!
   
   What happened to the 3 to 5 million jobs that were supposed to be created? What happened to the unemployment rate that was supposed to be held to 8%?
   Thanks government!

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      SimeyCposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I think the financial sector also needs to take just a little blame for this - without them we wouldn't be in this mess!!!

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         Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Yeah but it wasn't the financial sector that decided they were too big to fail. It wasn't the financial sector that gave taxpayer money to themselves! They failed, and they all should have been allowed to fail, we'd all still feel the pain but at least we wouldn't be handing them our money!

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            SimeyCposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Unfortunately a lot of 'experts' said that we would go into deep depression if we let the financial sector fail - these experts of course got plenty of TV time explaining their thoughts and probably made lots of money with their best selling books!
            
            Personally I agree with you - the whole point about a recession or depression is that it sets things right - the financial system would have failed, but would have been rebuilt far better.....
            
            An opportunity was lost...

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            LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            What what what?!?!?
            
            You don't think Lehman Brothers, AIG, and BofA all thought there were too big to fail?
            
            I beg to differ.
            
            And you don't think congress critters weren't being lobbied HARD to bail these folks out? How many of these "financial experts" had close ties to the very companies needing funds?
            
            I'd be interested to know THAT particular fact.
            
            Which America do you live in?

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               SimeyCposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               The Lobbies run this country! Get rid of lobbying and things would work a lot better!

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               Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Obviously they weren't "too big to fail", because they did! The problem was our government didn't let them! I guarantee you, if they had, another company would not make the same mistakes or take the same risks! Now of course, everyone knows they have a safety net and all the so called "toxic assets" are still out there!

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                  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Bear in mind that even without a bail-out (and I didn't particularly agree with that bail-out) the FDIC would have been on the hook for all of the insured assets.

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                     Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Not exactly! AIG wasn't a bank, and they alone got 185 billion dollars!

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   jiberishposted 14 years ago

   They saved or created plenty of job in Washington, they're called Czars!

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      livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Obama has a few more czars to hire before he has as many as Bush did.

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         jiberishposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         W had 36, most were temporary until 21 were confirmed by Senate.  By the way none of them were Mao Tse Tung butt kissers!

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            livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Yeah! And that socialism too! Bad! Czars! Death panels! Illegal immigrants!

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               Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Unfortunately too many people in America are ready to accept the tenets of socialism, "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need".
               
               Many just don't realize how evil and unnatural that system of social order is, but, I have a feeling they're all gonna find out!
               
               But I'll die resisting it if I have to! I will not wear the shackles of socialism!

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                  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I love it when you do that! It just adds so much to your credibility.

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                     Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Oh yes there's no danger of socialism! Just look at the response from livelonger. What does that attitude a reflection of?
                     
                     Last night I saw a focus group on Hannity of Jersy Democrats and they were asked by a show of hands how many agreed with the Karl Marx quote I used yesterday. I was shocked at the number of hands that went up! The highest taxed people in the country paying 65% of thier income and willing to pay more as long as the government taxes the rich even more!!!
                     
                     Charles de Montesquieu said "The tyranny of a prince in an oligarchy is not so dangerous to the public welfare as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy”
                     
                     Then there was this by Albert Camus: “The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience”
                     
                     And finally this by Edmund Burke: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
                     
                     I'm not panicked, but I'd say there is a real cause for concern.

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                        rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Thanks for the insight. Hannity PUULEASE!  It speaks volumes to your bias.

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                           A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Wow, thats one hell of an argument for your side.

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                              rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Jumping in now can only hurt ya!

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                                 A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Not with you in the mix!

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                                    Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    Now Texas, there's a state that knows and appreciates freedom! It could be the last safe haven when the hammer and sickle falls!

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                                       livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       Why wait? Join governor Perry and support secession now! (And think about taking along similarly freedom-loving, socialist-hating Appalachia and the Deep South with you)

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                                          Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                          No I think the plan is to ship all you socialists out to France, or China where you belong! Freedom loving Americans aren't going to sit back and watch the haters of freedom destroy our country!

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                                             livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                             If that were true, we would be shipping you out, not the other way around.

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                                                A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                

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                                                   rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                   How come these turn into nanny-nanny-boo-boo with you?

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                                                      A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                      I'm sorry but when you threw in the Hannity insult I thought that was mu Que! Pot/Kettle

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                                                         rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                         I knew it might give rise to some in here.

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                                       A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       Hell, come on down, we got some pretty good blues too!

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                  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  It's a testament to the viability of the Democrats' platform that apparently the only alternative nowadays is Jacksonian populism.

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   TimTurnerposted 14 years ago

   I like how they are attributing this to "Obamas" stimulus package.  I mean what new President WOULDN'T have had a 2nd stimulus package????
   
   And Bush's stimulus package didn't save any jobs?
   
   I love how they spin this stuff to make Obama look like he's done something so far.

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   Mishaposted 14 years ago

   Oh Poppa, I gave up on explaining this. They will recognize they got tricked into socialism only when they are put into concentration camps. May be. But when you tell them this, they count it as a personal attack...

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   Poppa Bluesposted 14 years ago

   "Thanks for the insight. Hannity PUULEASE!  It speaks volumes to your bias."
   
   See right there, that is a common tactic of the left, change the subject and avoid real debate.
   
   Did you read what I wrote? It was a focus group of Jersey DEMOCRATS who answered the question with a show of hands.
   
   This wasn't something Hannity said or claimed, it was something I witnessed in real time and for you to ignore it just supports my argument. Too many Americans are ready to accept socialism. And I am beginning to believe that is precisely what Obama is ushering in, sad to say. I am asking you and all Americans not to take this lightly, to be vigilant, as vigilant as you were when Bush was president. Be careful what you wish, you just might get it!

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      rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      By prefacing your argument with such a controversial rumor monger such as Hannity is what turns the whole thing south.
      Hannity did not have to say or claim anything but his presentations are alarmest and beset with distortions through and through and have no credibility with me.  Sorry that is the way I feel about it.  I am very aware of him as I listened to him over many years and have not come to this conclusion lightly.

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   Poppa Bluesposted 14 years ago

   "By prefacing your argument with such a controversial rumor monger such as Hannity is what turns the whole thing south.
   Hannity did not have to say or claim anything but his presentations are alarmest and beset with distortions through and through and have no credibility with me.  Sorry that is the way I feel about it.  I am very aware of him as I listened to him over many years and have not come to this conclusion lightly."
   
   So you're not shocked or concerned that a number of folks in your party agree with Karl Marx simply because they appeared on Hannity?
   
   Okay you're not in denial. You're not an ostrich sticking his head in the sand.

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      rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I just don't buy into your pessimism and I am sorry if that makes you angry.  You are quick to label and dismiss any information that follows that.  Not a good place to be my friend.

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         Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I'm not a pessimist nor will I dismiss information out of hand. I only consider what's possible and there are more then a few coincidences that suggest a move towards a bigger role of government in our lives and consequently a decay of freedom and a willingness by the people to accept that.

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            rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            That's more like it.  I knew you had it in you.  There probably is a move towards more government in our lives and yes I do believe it to be problematic if we don't participate.  But attacking the vote and saying it has little affect or influence is like sticking your head in the sand?  What do you suggest to counter it? Just say no and hope something else good comes along in its' absence?  With a void of direction and participation who is to fill the void?  The void for any ideas created the situation with Obama. He had some ideas and where McCain had none the people voted Obama in.  Whether they turn out good or bad is yet to be seen.  But don't run around saying the sky is falling to get attention while being devoid of new ideas. See how no ideas from the other side set this up?  Don't fall into the politicians polarized tactics and wind up spinning your wheels.

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   Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago

   

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      Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      See there. More evidence of denial. You people won't even CONSIDER the possibility yet you're ready to believe Bush caused 9/11!

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         Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         We people are very amused by the hyperbole of you people.

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            livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            They have a point, though. The 50 years of universal health care in Japan and Europe have led to gulag-like conditions there, not just lower costs and better health outcomes.

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               Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Quite Right.  There is no such thing as a middle, only ridiculous extremes.  My way or the highway.  Love it or leave it.

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                  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Exactly. Importing tested, successful ideas from overseas is tantamount to capitulation to fascists, communists, and jihadists. It's better if we stick to what we know, even if it's ridiculously expensive and performs badly.

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               rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               But any system left alone will stagnate. Unfortunately we Americans look for the silver bullet for the quick fix and ride off into the sunset thinking we have done all we can do and that all will be fine.  Human nature is a dynamic force and must be watched and fixed when crisis' dictate.

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      rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      That's a good one LOL

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   Poppa Bluesposted 14 years ago

   "They have a point, though. The 50 years of universal health care in Japan and Europe have led to gulag-like conditions there, not just lower costs and better health outcomes."
   
   Yeah the costs per citizen are lower, but the outcomes? The USA is 37th, Japan 10th, the UK 18th, France, #1 that's out of 190 countries ranked by WHO. Though you shouldn't just look at the ranking without looking at what's behind them. The USA is still number 1 in cancer treatment.

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      livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      #37 is great! And we only pay double what France pays per capita...and tens of millions of our citizens aren't covered (they're probably lazy and don't deserve health care anyway).
      
      One often-overlooked place where the US clearly ranks #1 with healthcare is insurance company CEO salaries. Those Swiss and Japanese company CEOs can't even get close to ours.

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         Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Oh sure we can do better and there are problems. Keep in mind that many people don't have insurance because they don't WANT to spend their money on it! Needless to say the proposed plan doesn't insure everybody so there will still be uninsured, medicare denies claims and I'm sure that will continue, and the government is lying about the cost so it won't be lower.
         
         I ask you does it make sense to pass a bill which doesn't address the conditions that it's supposed to resolve?

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    rhamsonposted 14 years ago

    Is it my imagination but have these two forums blurred into one.

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    bgpappaposted 14 years ago

    GDP growing, Stock market back up, panic is over, consumer spending has risen, Holiday shopping projections are better than expected, no evidence huh.
    
    In Sacramento, 30 police officers were going to be laid off.  None of them did because of the stimulus.  That is evidence.  No, no new jobs, but those guys kept there jobs and the streets stayed a bit safer.
    
    Its amazing that so many forget where we were only a year ago.  The world was going to end.  Today, we can sit back and point out that the lagging indicator is lagging.

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       Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       This might help to open your eyes. Or might not, of course. But I am willing to give it another try. Please pay attention to the text in bold.
       
       http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Economys-De … ry-Is-Over

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    endelizposted 14 years ago

    WHOOOOO HOOOOO WE GAINED OVER 600,000 JOBS....
    
    BUT THEY DID NOT TELL YOU WE LOST 25 MILLION JOBS !
    
    WOW THAT 600,00O JOBS WERE MOSTLY JUST GOVERNMENT / STATE / LOCAL JOBS SAVED NOT CREATED ANYWAY ..
    
    SHHH THEY FORGOT TO TELL YA THAT TOO

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    MikeNVposted 14 years ago

    It's like pissing in a cup and claiming you created food.

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    Presigoposted 14 years ago

    The government is making a concerted effort to keep us from realizing the current economic conditions. The money was indeed wasted primarily to keep many staes and cities from cutting there workforce. A worthy cause but not stimulative, I have written a fewe recent hubs that outline the details of current economic conditions, I hope you find them informative.

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