Do you believe that removal of Jesus from USA schools has aided or damaged the y

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   taburkettposted 11 years ago

   Do you believe that removal of Jesus from USA schools has aided or damaged the youth and
   
   society?  The USA society has been constantly in a degrading mode since the first decision to remove religious artifacts from the schools.  This has led to huge increase in immoral activities by many youth as they have been denied spiritual moral training.  The constant decline in the educational achievement of the graduating youth is a direct result of this action.  How do you feel about this damaging decline?

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   Freeway Flyerposted 11 years ago

   I don't think that the removal of Jesus (whatever that means) has had a significant impact. Anyway, one of the worst things that you could do to promote Christianity is to have it promoted in school. One of the worst ways to get kids to engage in any behavior is to have schools tell them to do it.
   
   If parents want kids to have a Christian education then they can send them to a Christian school. Or they could just home school them. Why should non-Christians in a government funded school be forced to worship Jesus or any other religion's God(s)? If you are concerned with the moral development of children, you should be pointing your finger at parents, not at schools. And no one is stopping parents from promoting whatever religion they want.Too many parents want schools to do their parenting for them.

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      ChristinSposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I agree. Too many lazy parents for sure.  Morals are certainly not limited to Christianity.

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      gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Agree with you ChristinS, parents today are becoming more irresponsible.  They are abdicating their parental role.They believe that everyone should raise their kids,except for them.MANY kids are raising themselves these days,with deleterious results.

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      taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      60% of all violent crime in the USA is done by individuals 16-25. Of these, 98% come from a single parent home. Of these, 99% were taught in public schools. Of these, none were exposed to Jesus because complacent adults believe Jesus is a school need

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      ChristinSposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Proof for your statistics please. Many people go to church so I don't buy it sorry.

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      JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      How many school shootings were there when prayer and Bible study were in schools? The writing is on the wall. No one has to buy anything. Christians aren't selling it, society is.

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      Laura Schneiderposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It is the parents who need to choose between a school with or without a certain religious teaching. There are such things as houses of worship with classes. For example, I used to attend Sunday School at my church to learn its teachings.

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      taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      as a child I also attended Sunday school. this was then reinforced through objects of affection within the public school as a reminder of such teachings. additionally, religious artifacts were not restricted and not viewed as sponsored by government.

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      Laura Schneiderposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      FF, Christin, & gm are right. Private schools, parents, private places of worship are for teaching private matters like religion. Else kids will not have their parents values, but those of dozens of weird teachers. Parents need to decide and enfo

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   ChristinSposted 11 years ago

   There are private schools for those who want their religions taught and don't want to participate in the public school system.  There is also the option to home school. I think people play the victim entirely too much.  There is no reason at all for religion to be taught in public schools - any of them.
   
   Promoting tolerance for other cultures is NOT the same as teaching religion.

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      Billie Kelpinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      C, EXACTLY RIGHT!  My mother and father lived in an apartment all their lives, never owned a house, never were able to travel to Ireland where my mother dreamed to go, died without a penny, but they paid tuition for me to go to Catholic school!

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      taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      you are correct about private school. however, you failed to answer the question whether removing Jesus has aided or damaged. violent crime among young adults 16-25 has tripled in the last 30 years. many believe this is due to the removal of Jesus.

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      ChristinSposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It's far more complex than that taburkett. not every issue is black and white and we have separation of church and state for good reason.

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      Laura Schneiderposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with ChristinS, taburkett. And, separation of church and state does not mean that morals shouldn't be taught/upheld in schools regardless of one's religion. Very complex issue indeed, as ChristinS said: there's good reason for separation.

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      taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      as usual, opposing individuals wish to deny the small steps that must be taken to restore morality. it is definitely black and white - more children are dying under the current immoral teachings. those who deny this, live in a fantasy world.

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   JThomp42posted 11 years ago

   The writing is on the wall my friend. All one must do is look around them. Taking prayer out of schools was like taking away a huge part of American history. Some will disagree, but this country was founded upon Christianity and its values.

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      Laura Schneiderposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      JT, I do have to disagree on this one, my friend. This country was founded on religious FREEDOM and the separation of church and state to ensure that it remained free in that respect. Most of our founding fathers were NOT Christian, either. Research.

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      taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The Constitution states that the government shall make no law regarding religion. This does  not mean that schools cannot permit prayer. Silent prayer is an individual right - it should not be denied by the government.

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      JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Laura..... Agree to disagree. God bless you!

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      Laura Schneiderposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Agreed to disagree, JT! :-) Bless you as well!
      
      taburkett--Agreed! Silent prayer is a whole different thing than teaching religion in school. I'm in favor of allowing individuals to pray silently, in school and elsewhere, or not per their beliefs!

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      aliasisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Except that's a lie. This country was founded by Theists (not necessarily Christians) who made the decision to NOT make a Christian country. They actively decided to separate religion and state, which was phenomenal at that time.

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      JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The reason behind this decision was to give people the freedom to worship without there being any interference from the government. Giving of this freedom was what made this country flourish with God's blessings. And now most turn their backs on him.

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      Laura Schneiderposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Agreed, Aliasis!!! Many would-be US citizens (pilgrims, founding fathers, etc.) had fled religious persecution in their homelands, hence they knew separation of church and state was absolutely VITAL to a stable USA that was truly free!

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      JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Isn't that basically how I described it Laura?

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      stuff4kidsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Actually, the country was founded on genocide and the appropriation of land from the native people, the extermination of their livelihoods and all the usual exploitations of colonialism. In the name of Jesus.

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       taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       and today the genocide comes from the politicians bearing fairness and equality while placing more families on the slavery rolls of welfare.

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       Laura Schneiderposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Sorry, JT, I hadn't refreshed to see your post when I was responding to the previous one. But, most people worldwide NEVER worshipped "God"/"Jesus". It's just one path.  Christianity has numerous factions. God/Jesus wasn't allowed in my schools.

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       JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       We had prayer and Bible study in our schools until I reached High school. Then the atheist Madalyn Murray O'Hair sued to have prayer taken out of our schools.

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       CraftytotheCoreposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       We have prayer day here.  It's once a year for anyone freely to participate at the flag pole.

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       taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       one day of prayer and 364 days of gang war.
       seems a little one-sided don't you think?
       youth that are influenced by evil more than by righteousness breed more evil.
       yet many wish to deny such is the case.....
       where will the evil rise next?
       on the weak

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       CraftytotheCoreposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I'm just saying, because a lot of people are saying prayer is forbidden completely.  That's not true here.  It is only one day, but it isn't completely forbidden.

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       taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       when you do not confront evil, you permit it to flourish.
       my example of one day prayer and 364 days of evil is meant to indicate little support for confronting evil.

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   CraftytotheCoreposted 11 years ago

   The one thing I was disappointed in when my daughter started Kindergarten years ago was that the teacher had chosen to not allow the children to recite Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
   
   Not because anyone was offended by "One Nation Under God", but because she thought it would take up too much of her morning.  All the other Kindergarten teachers recited it with their classrooms, and a child in each of those classes was chosen every morning to lead it through the intercom system of the whole school.
   My daughter was not given the opportunity to participate.  The teacher was hired right out of college, in her early 20s.  The other 2 teachers have been teaching for years and are much older.  Both of their husbands are either military or in the fire department. 
   
   I have pictures from when I was in K holding a flag as well.  I think that by removing this, it diminishes country pride in a sense.  But I'm in the north.  I don't know what southern states do.

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      taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      righteousness & personal responsibility must be in the classroom if we are to restore the moral society. immoral individuals continue to convince others that it is discrimination against their anti-Christian beliefs. this must end for healing aga

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      Laura Schneiderposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      taburkett, if I understand you correctly, I totally agree that "righteousness & personal responsibility must be in the classroom if we are to restore the moral society". I just think that specific religions, like group-led prayer, should not.

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      CraftytotheCoreposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Thankfully, both of my children have teachers now that recite the pledge daily!  I just have fond memories of that as a child.  I was so happy to hear that their teachers participate.

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      taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Sorry Laura, but you continue to deny the personal responsibility.  Society cannot deny the individual the right to prayer if it is to consider itself moral.  Prayer does not injure the individual, but the lack of it has spawned much distress&kil

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      Laura Schneiderposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Agree to disagree, please? I think our hearts are ultimately in the same place: "personal responsibility" sums it up nicely, along with "morality" and the current lack thereof throughout society. Peace and blessings!

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      aliasisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I would cut the Pledge, too. It IS a waste of time, and doesn't make kids more moral or more American. Patriotism should be chosen freely out of love for America, not shoved down throats. Most other countries don't do such pledges.

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      CraftytotheCoreposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Most countries have more pride for their country than Americans do today.

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   Billie Kelpinposted 11 years ago

   When in the world was Jesus IN the public schools in America - at Christmas time with the manger and Adeste Fideles and Silent Night?  I don't think the removal of those infrequent references caused any decline of morality or the graduation rates.  If only it were that simple.

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      ChristinSposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I agree, the situation is much more complex than a simple lack of religion. Bad parenting, negative media influences, declining social skills ...lots of factors present.

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      gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you, there are myriad factors as to the decline and demoralization of youth in current society.  There is negligent parenting, the deification of thug culture, and many other factors which has NOTHING to do with religion.

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      taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Jesus was in the school system for many years before anti-Christianity spawned a volley of evil sentiment bent on removing morals from the curriculum. Morality has declined because of it and society continues to be damaged daily. Simple is truth.

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      ChristinSposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Jesus and Christianity are not the only source of morality, if you want to live in a theocracy there are many far worse countries than us who practice that.

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      Billie Kelpinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      T, Morality has not declined!  I just can't see it that way!  If you keep  thinking that, your feelings will be based on unsubstantiated thought and your conclusions thus will be the result. I really can't live that way. I see goodness all around.

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      ChristinSposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Billie, I too believe there is far much more good in the world than bad - probably because I turn of the TV/Media and go out and experience actual people and society and like you choose to see the good in people.

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      Justsilvieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You and the other ladies said it so well! I

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      taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It is not the rise of goodness that is the problem, but the rise of badness. This badness rise begins at an early age for youth who live in a godless world. USA courts have made sure that the godless world exists. Thus, the society has lost morals.

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   sheilamyersposted 11 years ago

   I won't blame all of the problems on not having prayer or anything religious in the schools. We didn't have those things when I was in high school and a lot of my friends, as well as myself, grew up to be good people and held on to our Christian beliefs. So many people want to blame the schools for not teaching the children right from wrong. My questions are -  Where are the parents? What's their role in teaching religion and morality to their children? It's not the public school systems responsibility to teach morality and religion to our kids. It's time the parents and the church stop demanding that the schools be the only teachers and get back to doing their jobs.

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      ChristinSposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I completely agree with you. Everyone always wants to shift blame instead of accept accountability.

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      taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It's time for the individuals to stop demanding that we remove teachers who wear Christian Crosses, photos or paintings that depict Jesus, and prayers that Children wish to enjoy. The violence has escalated continually since these actions occurred.

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      Laura Schneiderposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I completely agree with ChristinS and sheilamyers.
      
      taburkett, why did teachers--who should know better--bring their religions with them into the schools, thereby creating the problem? Their removal again is not the source of the violence.

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      taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      when does the rights of one person overrule the rights of the other? a religious individual has the same right of self-expression as those who are anti-Christian. so where is fairness. it has been removed in favor of those who are anti-Christian.

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   Laura Schneiderposted 11 years ago

   Sorry, I have to disagree with several good friends... taburkett, how do you know that removal of "Jesus" has 'directly resulted in the constant decline in the educational achievement...'? That is not a scientific fact I'm aware of. When was he there, anyway? Ex: The pledge of allegiance was to the US; there was much hubbub, my mom says, when they added "under god" when she was in school and eventually the pledge was removed entirely rather than just revised back to its original "One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for ALL". Would not liberty and justice mean that a person going to learn math and reading would not be forced to learn someone else's religion, too? The pilgrims would have had a fit! Their schools were, private religious schools, not open to the general public unless they wished to study the bible according to the pilgrims' beliefs. The various groups of Pilgrims, like the Amish today, had/have private schools to teach their particular Christianity and other beliefs. Just as the Amish don't attend public schools, neither would the Pilgrims. Look at all-Christian Ireland and its war-torn factions--over primarily which version of Christianity is "right"? Think how many times greater would be the battle in the US if all religions were taught in schools--or only one (in which case, whose Jesus should be taught? yours? mine? someone else's?). Just as people choose which church to attend by the congregation and minister/rabbi/imam, etc. they have the ability to choose private, public, or home school per their faith. If they wish to learn faith separately from reading and math, public school is for them.
   
   These are two separate issues. And, it is mandated that "church and state" be separated in the Constitution--it is one of our most important freedoms, not a negative. I also argue that "spiritual" training is NOT the same as "moral" training. Morals include not stealing, not harming, caring for others, etc.
   
   I feel that keeping church and state separate is, not just the law, but VITAL to the moral fiber of our nation while being supportive of its numerous unique spiritual groups. It is when one's beliefs, without facts, are forced upon another that decline occurs, for most people can see this for what it is: immoral, unjust, and unlawful.
   
   YES, the declining education and morality of youth (& adults) scares the life outta me. I don't think we should blame Jesus, though. Tolerance, folks, of each others' freedoms as well as your own.

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      gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      GOOD answer!

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      Laura Schneiderposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks, gmwilliams! ;-)

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      taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Laura, I work & observe many youth in my current environment. Many have lost all hope of a fruitful future due to the nature of immoral divisiveness introduced into their education environment. Moral tolerance is being overtaken by evil destructi

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      CraftytotheCoreposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The pledge of allegiance was not taken out of my children's schools completely.  It was one teacher.  But, I don't think that has a direct correlation with religion.  For me, it's about the citizenship and America.

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      Laura Schneiderposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      taburkett, I agree--immorality is rampant throughout the US (if not the world). We need to teach right from wrong as PARENTS and enforce it in schools: cheating, stealing, hurting others, etc. I just see that as separate from a particular religion.

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      taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      it takes a village to raise a child.
      when the village is immoral, the child becomes immoral.
      when the village denies prayer, artifacts, and moral religion the path to immoral is paved.
      The moral fiber of youth is greatly impeded by immoral education.

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   Chuck Bluesteinposted 11 years ago

   Children learn by imitation, not by what is taught to them. Also there are many religions and it is allowed to teach them if you do it without bias. But whatever your religion is, if you teach it like it is the word of God then it is illegal. You do not want teachers teaching your children that Scientology is the only good religion and they should be like John Travolta and Tom Cruise.
   
   Or you do not want them teaching that Buddhism is the only intelligent religion and that they should become vegetarian. Also before World War II, there was another war going on. LOOK IT UP. It was the war between the Christians and Christians. No official start date but Protestants and Catholics were at war and killing each other.
   
   In Catholic school a teacher asked the students what they wanted to be when they grow up. One girl said that she wanted to be a prostitute. The teacher got very angry and said "what did you say?" She said "I want to be a                prostitute. " The teacher calmed down and said "Well that is okay. At first I thought you said that you wanted to be a Protestant!"

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      taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Today children are overburdened through technical media that portrays evil as good. This causes many children to lean towards immoral activity as they grow. Institutional denial of the danger has led to more burden. Moral restoration must begin soon.

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    BuffaloGal1960posted 11 years ago

    Many things contribute to the moral decay of our society and our youth.
    
    1) Hollywood influence - flat out television and monetary gods.
    2) People stopped taking their children to church because their lives got to busy with "soccer" and this and that after school ball games.
    3) The internet.
    4) Absent parents in the home, whether from divorce or both parents working long hours to have the stuff leaving their latch key children unattended.  It wasn't so bad at first but now they have these immoral influences to participate in while the parents are not home.
    5) Parents are not proactive in protecting their children.
    6) I can remember my mother reading to us by kerosene.  She worked shifts as a nurse but made sure we were in church and if she could attend, she did.  (My dad died).
    7) Bad music.  Period.
    
    Personally, I see NO harm whatsoever in displaying the ten commandments.  I mean who  died from "thou shalt not kill" being posted anywhere.
    
    Yes, they took prayer out of school and I hate that.  Our society is a mess as adults.  For example, you can get an abortion in some places without your parents knowing, but you can't have an aspirin at school without them knowing. If we can't get our act together, why should they? 
    
    And further, it will be a cold day when my kid can't say their prayers as a Christian when the Muslim right next to them can. 
    
    Someone on FB posted something really good.  "They recommend Bibles in prison, but if the Bible was introduced first, maybe they wouldn't have gone to prison." 
    
    I know this will upset a lot of people. Especially the ones who come in and ask questions just so they can manipulate it into a debate for their gain but I am entitled to my opinion same as they are.
    
    Thanks for the opportunity to vent!  I feel better.

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       Laura Schneiderposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       :-) I agree with 90% of everything you said! But with 7--they need exposure to all music, not just current-um-stuff. And replace "if the bible" & '10 Command.' with "religion" was introduced at home. Christ. isn't majority belief system worldwide

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       BuffaloGal1960posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I don't think my children need to listen to music with "f" words and music that promotes vile things.  So that's what I mean by bad music.

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       Laura Schneiderposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       LOL TOTALLY agree with you! Also, I think the vehemence of this discussion highlights why religion must not be in public school: it's against the law therefore immoral. Nothing to do with WHICH religion vs atheists vs politics. Just way too complex!

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       taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       BuffaloGal1960, you are so correct in your society depiction. Busy parents have permitted political government to remove moral instruction in so many ways. The foundation built at home and in school directs the morals of youth. Currently it fails.

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       aliasisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       10 Commandments also says you can't have any other gods but the Christian god, which is a slap in the face to other religions that make up the US. And Muslim students say their prayers quietly on their own time - not as a class activity.

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       Borsiaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Consider that the majority of gang members come from deeply religious homes, for Hispanics its Catholic or Christian and for blacks its Baptist or Christian. Virtually every cartel member has a cross on the wall.

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       taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       No proof gang members are religious but they are evil.  Approximately 1.4 million gang members in 33,000 gangs are criminally active within the USA. This is a 40 percent increase since 2009. Do you attribute this to the current corrupt government?

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       Paul Froehlichposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Posting the Ten Commandments?  Should gov't tell us to observe the Sabbath?  And to have no other gods before me? To not take the name of the Lord in vain?  To make no graven images?  Really???

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    aliasisposted 11 years ago

    Considering having Christianity in public schools is unconstitutional, it never should have been there in the first place if it had been. Moving forward and not forcing kids to participate in a religion they may or may not follow is DEFINITELY a step forward.
    
    And why do you say society has degraded? Crime is actually about as low as it was in the 1950s, lower than the 70s and 80s. We are increasingly learning how to be more tolerant - less racist, less sexist, less homophobic and less xenophobic in general (though we still have a lot of work to do in those categories). We are not "less moral" as a whole society, we are in fact MORE moral. Life is a lot better than it was way back when schools shoved Christianity down kids' throats. And morals have nothing to do with religion, anyway, morals are independent of religion - sure, religion can be used as a model to teach morality (also, immorality, to be frank) but morals are something most people are naturally inclined to have.
    
    Basically, you'll need evidence to make your argument, because it seems pretty empty. And why would you want to force kids to participate in Christian practices, anyway? You do realize that not everyone is a Christian, and that not all Christians want that, either? And that our country was founded upon separation of church and state?

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       CraftytotheCoreposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Despite disagreeing with my post, I will agree to your statement that you say not all Christians want that.  Because religion is so diverse, I don't want my children taught what others think are correct based on their own beliefs.

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       Laura Schneiderposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Very well said, aliasis, and very open-minded of you, CraftytotheCore! I agree with you both!

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       aliasisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Crafty - sorry, I'm not sure what post I disagreed with (I answer a lot of these) but even for Christians, I agree. Christianity is so diverse, whose version of Christianity gets to be taught? Which denomination? That's problematic on its own!

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       CraftytotheCoreposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, that's my point exactly! 

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    stuff4kidsposted 11 years ago

    Oh boy. Those are pretty wild claims with no supporting evidence, my friend! Superstition has no place, no place at all, in a public school. How could it? It would be unconstitutional!
    
    And to add, seriously, I am pretty fed up of people bemoaning the state of our nation's youth. MOST of our young people - whatever their religion or none - are wonderful, creative, hard-working, loving, inspirational people of whom we should be deeply proud. It's time we stopped blaming THEM for OUR failings and worked a bit harder ourselves to build a more loving, intelligent, rational and sustainable society a bit more in tune with the rest of the world and a little less schizophrenic - on the one hand 'the greatest nation on Earth' and on the other 'what's wrong with our young people today.' Heeellllooo? Wake up, please!

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       taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       many youth today are weak and willing to follow the evil that is spreading. they have learned this from family and schools. bullies continue to hound the weak unless they learn how to confront their oppressors. United weak is power. awake? - you bet.

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       aliasisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Right on, Stuff4Kids. Seems like many of these old fashioned types,going out on a limb and guessing they're pretty old, decided to hate today's youth culture without any actual consideration of it. Exhibit A: Taburkett - PS, bullies aren't new, dude.

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       taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       evil abounds when not confronted.
       weak youth are created by eliminating moral instruction.
       you are correct bullies aren't new, but they are gaining the upper hand.
       united weak through moral instruction will overcome the bully.
       faith, integrity, honor

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       aliasisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Citation needed, taburkett, don't just ramble. Well, it's good you're concerned about bullies though - some of the most targeted students are gay or transgender kids, many who end up taking their own lives. Get involved and help teach tolerance!

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       stuff4kidsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       taburkett, having read your comments here I can see that you are probably certifiably insane and there's just no point participating any further in this. I'm gone.

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       JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       stuff4kids ....... this type of behavior can get you banned. I would select not calling anyone insane on HP.

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       stuff4kidsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Right. So you can say that the "youth are following evil" and that's okay but if you suggest that the person who says that is nuts, you're out? Ok. Then let them boot me out. I wouldn't want any longer to be part of anything that thought that was ok.

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    8. 0

       JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       So, someone is insane for believing differently than you?

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       stuff4kidsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       *Yawn* Look, I shoulda known better than to think that a sensible discussion might have arisen from this ludicrous question. It's all yours, have the last word. Enjoy. x

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    10. 0

        JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I think HP will have the last word.

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13. 60

    amynluvposted 11 years ago

    I don't think it really makes a difference on them getting worse.  I'm not a member of a mainstream religion and I wouldn't want my child taught from another religion's Holy Books, or learn to pray to a god that my family doesn't worship.  Prayer in school (even optional prayer) ostracizes children who do not worship the god most people in that school worship.  Even if everyone in the whole United States was Christian, so they wanted to have Christian prayer in school; a Victory's Baptist, a Evangelical Pentecostal, and a Catholic all pray differently!  Hence we have to rely on one of the most awesome pieces of wisdom our law gives us: separation of church and state.

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       Laura Schneiderposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Very well said, amynluv!

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       taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       no law for separation of church and state exists.
       what exists is a Constitutional Amendment as "...Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...." 
       complacency has led immoral youth

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       Laura Schneiderposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       It's part of the 1st ammendment to the constitution, upheld by the Supreme Court, so yes, it IS law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation … ted_States

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       taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       if it were law, it would be unconstitutional, therefore, it is a decision - not a law.
       Selectively invoking this decision is not unconstitutional.
       However, the morals of youth has been reduced through use of this court ruling that damages society.

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    M. T. Dremerposted 11 years ago

    A school without religion does not equal anti-christian or anti-god. The two are not the same. If they were the same, then any organization that doesn't explicitly state a support of god is anti-christian. You don't boycott your barber because there is no cross in his window.
    
    You act as if Christian's are being grabbed off the streets, thrown into vans and tortured until they renounce god. Can you imagine the kind of backlash a teacher would get if they tried to recite a Muslim prayer? Christians get off easy because they have an army of supporters in high places. Christians complaining about persecution is like Donald Trump complaining that he doesn't have enough money.

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       taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       This analysis is typical of the despondent spirit that renders a disheartened enthusiasm for the wreckage within society. This leads to complacency that expands immoral destruction to society. Living through righteousness, I do boycott anti-Christian

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       M. T. Dremerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       You say 'wreckage' I say 'progress'. You say 'truth' I say 'opinion'. You say 'righteous' I say 'dangerous'. Round and round we go. All I ask is that you don't hurt anyone in your crusade against the non believers.

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       jonnycomelatelyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       You are hooked on the concept of evil, Taburkett.   You will never see beauty and love unless you simply allow it into your life.

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       taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       the righteous are filled with love as they follow the path that Jesus has shown. The non-believers continue to cower under the path of immoral tolerance that derails the teachings of Christ. This despondent wreckage causes more destruction to society

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15. 38

    Borsiaposted 11 years ago

    It was a good thing then and still is today.
    Society and education continued to climb until the late 60s when schools became day care centers and parents no longer had the responsibility of making sure their children behaved in class. The next blow was the end of corporal punishment and the removal of trouble makers to special schools. Then came passing students based on time served rather than learning accomplished.
    The legal system is broken and the government is out of control but those things began long before religion was taken out of the schools. Those responsible are just as much the religious as the secular.
    When I was in junior & high school we had a saying that if you wanted a good time date the girls from the Catholic schools and it was true. Likewise the guys that were the real hell raisers were from the Catholic schools as well.

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       taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       from this point of view, one believe no fix for the current trend because you could not fix it during junior & high school. Society is overly filled with such pessimism. That is why it is on a path to destruction. Improvement begins with I.......

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    brblogposted 11 years ago

    No, what we have to worry about is the easy access to mass media and all of the negative and sometimes harmful things that are available, literally at our and our kid’s finger tips (from the internet, cable TV, etc.). This was never available when I was a young. Make no mistake, it was there back then just not easily accessed. I am not one of those people that think the old days were great and now everything has gone to hell. That is a common refrain but any student of history knows better. Which reminds me, I leaned some of the most crude and inappropriate things you could ever imagine from a upperclassman at church (high school age) choir practice and I have a friend that likes to reminisce about the crazy and wild times he had at an all-boys Catholic School. It seems that it is very hard for some people to understand that you can be a good person without being religious.

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       taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       good people come in all sizes with many reflectors. evil explodes when challenged by good people. Christian teachings follow a simple righteous path to love, honor, and glory. The removal from school has led to corruptive chaos and greater evil.

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    PoeticFailosophyposted 11 years ago

    You are right! Ever since Jesus was expelled from school he's been up to trouble around town.  Smoking weed behind the 7-11, breaking into cars.  It's vital that we allow Jesus back into school so that he can complete his education and make something out of his life.  This 33-year-old man still hasn't completed 10th grade! What is this country coming to!!!

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       taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       your rendition of Jesus is not far off. For it is the spirit within the individual student that is at risk. The society is filled with incomplete individuals who walk a path of destruction while those who could speak up to correct it remain silent.

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    RachelJ1031posted 11 years ago

    If there is a decline in morality that has occurred, and that is a bit IF, since there seems to be a lot of evidence to the contrary, the correlation between removing religion in schools and a decline would be coincidental. To assume that removal of religion (which is an expansion of rights to those who don't conform to specific religions) is the primary cause of decreased morality would be foolhardy.
    
    Lack of religion in schools is a benefit to educational achievement. Thinking that every student is 'Christian' and subscribes to a 'Christian' set of guidelines and religious adherence, is a delusion. Therefore, removing religions teachings from educational institutions, which never should have been permitted in the first place, stands by the religious freedoms laid down in the constitution.
    
    As for 'spiritual training' being a deterrent for immoral behavior, what particular brand of training do you suggest? Christian values? Okay, Methodist, Presbyterian, Baptist, Catholic? Not a Christian? What about Buddhist? Muslim? Hindu? Morality isn't a set of religious values, it is compassion for others, and can be taught without religious artifacts in schools. And what would you deem immoral behavior? Just because one person believes that sex before marriage should be classified as immoral, doesn't mean that it is by all standards. There is no way to measure or quantify a decline in morality.
    
    Children and young adults today are more influenced by modern culture than anything else, so instead we should be asking IF this moral decline exists, where are they getting it from? Could it be the television shows glorifying these 'reality stars' that make ignorance, vulgarity and stupidity seem 'cool' and acceptable? Or the simple fact that US culture is adapting and the 'moral' values of the past are no longer the values of the present, which isn't always a bad thing.

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       taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       RachelJ1031 you are very correct that children and young adults today are more influenced by the modern immoral culture. This is easily viewed by turning on the TV & schools where teachers expound on immoral experiences rather than moral ones.

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    miss peepersposted 11 years ago

    This is an interesting question. Having gone to Catholic school all my life, I can't speak to what students do outside of the confines of a religious environment. However. I don't know that directly linking one's religious belief in school is completely related to a person's moral fiber. I can tell you that even in Catholic school, I saw my share of students who, after listening to our national anthem AND attending religion classes, outwardly continued to disrespect their peers. And, to be quite honest, I doubt showing these bullies a rosary prior to their destructive behaviour would have stopped them from being mischevious.
    In my opinion, religion is a personal belief held and nurtured by people regardless of their denomination or academic choices. My academic experiences have shown me that even those who came from a religious background often acted without a sense of morality; the major theme of their home life.
    I hope I haven't offended anyone; just wanted to share my opinion. Thank you.

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       taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       miss peepers you have described the very essence of the danger generated by the ever growing immoral society. others will disagree but then they are not concerned with the growing society destruction. We must work hard to restore the moral society.

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20. 59

    Brandon Tartposted 11 years ago

    Jesus is connected directly to the teachings of the Bible, so it is more probable that the downfall of a society, beginning in schools, is tantamount to the absence of instruction rooted in moral, graceful, merciful value judgements.
    
    Jesus, the WORD which became flesh, is the ideal, and all of the ideals of the Bible embodied - made flesh.  Remember, it was the Word that became flesh and dwelt amongst us.
    
    The word, WORD, comes from the Greek word, LOGOS, or - logic and reason.  We use reason (humans) guided by logic - or I could say that one who is Logical is Reasonable.  Christ in the flesh is such a mind, whose human behaviors were guided and directed by this Divine Reasoning. 
    
    Jesus, as an eternal mind, is indeed still in the schools, however, it is the principles of Divine Logic that has been removed from the schools.  If we only inform the youth with the teachings of men, then truth becomes relative.  Jesus said his WORD (Logic) would never pass away.  NEVER!  It's interesting, to say the least, to at least consider that Jesus does not really want man to worship "Him", rather, what he is -- LOGIC.  Unfortunately, the opposition wants to be the owner, or, the founder of logic and reason. The Truth, however, is that Logic must be eternal, even universal.  If there are societies like ours on this planet elsewhere in the cosmos, it is reasonable to deduce that without Logic, they, too, would fall by their own sword.
    
    Taking Christ out of schools is merely replacing human logic with Divine principles.  Love of one's neighbor misconstrued by a relativistic zeit geist of "to each his own".  Parents, like God, if they are loving parents, attempt to reform certain behaviors in their children which stem from their styles of thought - thinking (good or bad), produces certain behaviors.  So it follows that to trully love one's neighbor comes with the brotherly/sisterly responsibility of attempting to guide them from one style of thought to another.
    
    If the Logic is sound, it will enable them.  Unfortunately, LOGIC (the Word), is misunderstood as something meant to rob people of their liberty to do well and have a fulfilling life, when in reality, the Truth (Logos) sets us free.
    
    I don't think we should go so far as trying to champion education by turning them into temples of Christendom - for that we have local churches.  On the other hand, if Logic is removed from any "system" intended to better someone, it can only be replaced with a spirit of Anti-logos.

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    someonewhoknowsposted 11 years ago

    Jesus,did not promote any religion!
    He promoted certain characteristics to live by!
    
    Love your neighbor as your self -
    Forgive those who abuse you just as you would like them to forgive your abuse.
    This is not a religion.It's common respect for others beliefs even if they differ from our own. Just because you disagree with them does not give you the right to abuse them in any way.
    Love your enemies - means to tolerate them just as they should also tolerate you & your beliefs.
    
    P.S. Send a copy of this to all your friends & enemies alike!
    If,you feel the need to pray do it in silence.No one need know that your praying !

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       brblogposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Nicely said . . . the mission of Jesus was not to create a new religion that everyone would be obligated to follow - instead, he preached universal truths.

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       JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       The universal "Truth."

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       Paul Froehlichposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Some other Jesusian teachings I like:
       
       * Don't judge lest you be judged.
       * The measure by which you judge others will be applied to you.
       * If you don't forgive, then you won't be forgiven.
       * Before telling your brother about the speck in his eye...

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    jeffreymaskelposted 11 years ago

    I don't think it has made a difference one way or the other.  Nor do I feel like it should be integrated into the "public school" curriculum.  There is always the option of attending a school that is tied to your chosen religion.  If it was in public schools it would be forcing an opinion on a group of people that may have various ideas on religious dogma.

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