Should we put a cap on how many children per family is allowed?

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  1. one2get2no profile image76
    one2get2noposted 5 years ago

    Should we put a cap on how many children per family is allowed?

    This could be decided by earnings, or perhaps religion political views maybe.

  2. cam8510 profile image92
    cam8510posted 5 years ago

    Several different thoughts are taking form in my mind as I consider your very interesting question. 

    First let me mention the worker to beneficiary ratio for Social Security.  In 2005 it was 3.3 workers for each person receiving SS benefits.  In 2040 that ratio will be 2.1 to 1 (U.S. Social Security Administration, Office of Policy).  That is without the cap you have mentioned.  With such a cap, it is possible that we could easily get even closer to a 1 to 1 ratio or even 1 to 2 or more.   

    Constitutional rights would definitely come into play on this issue.  Birth control and abortion would necessarily be used to enforce such a cap on the number of births allowed per family.  This would violate the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States because many oppose birth control and abortion on religious grounds.

    In China, about 36% of the population is subject to such a cap.  It is estimated that this resulted in 200,000 fewer births between 1979 and 2009.  This policy has created what is called the 4-2-1 problem.  One child will eventually/potentially be responsible for the financial support of two parents and four grandparents.  Again, this only applies to the 36% of the population strictly held to one child per family. 

    These are just a couple of red flags that pop up for me as I consider this idea.  I'll be interested in reading what others have to say on the matter.

    1. cam8510 profile image92
      cam8510posted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Correction to the above comment regarding China:  It is estimated that this resulted in 200,000 fewer births between 1979 and 2009.  It should read 200 million.

    2. aesta1 profile image90
      aesta1posted 5 years agoin reply to this

      I totally agree. China is having a problem beyond the 4-2-1 because of their preference for boys. The one child policy resulted in choosing to forgo baby girls. Nowadays, in some villages, there are so many young men unable to find partners.

    3. KC3Lady profile image82
      KC3Ladyposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

      I seem to recall back when they graduated the retirement ages for Social Security that they were projecting with the aging Babyboomers a ratio of 10 to 1, meaning 10 drawing for every 1 working.

  3. freecampingaussie profile image60
    freecampingaussieposted 5 years ago

    No . I was one of 4 Children, Have an older brother + 2 younger sisters and loved growing up  having them to play with . My Brother had 3 sons. One of my sisters & I have 3 daughters & the other one stopped at 2 girls. I love the fact that my daughters had 2 sisters to spend time with. My daughter has a daughter + son . I feel sad for only children growing up without a sibling or 2 to play with-grow up with etc. As adults they have not got used to sharing and can be a bit more selfish than children having to share all their life. It is cruel putting a number on a family if they can afford to have them.

    1. gmwilliams profile image83
      gmwilliamsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Hogwash, only children are happy. They also have MORE educational & cultural opportunities than those w/siblings.  Only children are the ones must likely to pursue tertiary & higher levels of education.  1-child families have the LOWEST stres

    2. freecampingaussie profile image60
      freecampingaussieposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Higher education etc doesn't always bring happiness . Many big families are very happy having lots of family. As parents get older having siblings share responsibility takes the stress of just one person. Everyone has different ideas tho.

  4. gregas profile image80
    gregasposted 5 years ago

    In my opinion this is something people should consider for themselves for the sake of the world before the government has to start making that decision for us. China already does it. 2 to 4 children is a good average size family, but when couples have 10, 12 or 18 children, it is going beyond ridiculous. As I wrote in my hub about this same subject, back in the days when families had farms and family businesses it was a popular thing. But these days, with the cost of living as it is, most of the time the children don't have the opportunities they might have in a smaller family. There is really a lot to be said about this subject from food and water supplies to places to live in the future. A lot to think about. My opinion, Greg.

    1. AlexK2009 profile image89
      AlexK2009posted 5 years agoin reply to this

      In a country with no social security system a large family is your social security.

    2. gregas profile image80
      gregasposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      But large families can also be the downfall of a country, if not the world. Greg

      1. gmwilliams profile image83
        gmwilliamsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

        Large families are the DOWNFALL of countries.  In countries where there are sizable large families, there is a massive amount of poverty.  Think Mexico, Guatemala, India, & African countries where large families are common.  With such families, come poverty.  In countries where small families are the norm, the standards of living are higher w/socioeconomic affluence.   To reiterate, there should be an established, mandatory cap on how many children a couple has.  1-2 children is okay, perhaps 3-4 children at the limit.  Anymore than that, massive tax penalties should be applied to such irresponsible couples who elect to have more than 4 children.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

          You have the cart before the horse.  Where there is poverty there are large families, not the other way around.  Large families do not cause country wide poverty, but poverty is causal to large families.

          This is because in the past, large families were required to keep the farm going, particularly after so many of them died.  It was the only to survive in times with rampant poverty.  And as poverty eased, so did family size...except for those still in poverty, where large families remain the norm.

          Obvious conclusion?  End poverty and you will end large families (as a norm, not in every, specific case).

          1. gmwilliams profile image83
            gmwilliamsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

            Good God, man.  Where is the logic?  Large families do cause poverty.   The more children one has, the more impoverished a family becomes.  In large families, it is normal for children to do without, even the necessities.  In large families, there is no monies for health care.  Children in large families have to depend upon OUTSIDE assistance to keep them afloat.  Parents can't support a LARGE number of children by THEMSELVES, outside aid is needed to keep the family in reasonable socioeconomic fashion.  Large families= poverty. 

            I know that you REFUSE to ACKNOWLEDGE this (typical LFL) but IT IS THE TRUTH & DENIAL ISN'T A RIVER IN EGYPT.   Children in large families are more likely to be poor to impoverished while children in small families aren't likely to be impoverished.  DO THE MATH, MAN!

        2. Rochelle Frank profile image91
          Rochelle Frankposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

          So you want to put a massive tax on people who have almost nothing? How is that going to work out?

          1. gmwilliams profile image83
            gmwilliamsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

            If there was massive tax on people who ELECT to have more than 4 children, they would THINK BEFORE having SO MANY children.  Having more than 4 children in this postmodern time is well,  IRRESPONSIBLE.   I wasn't referring to third world countries(such countries need a MASSIVE education of women &  TEACHING the IMPORTANCE of using birth control).  I was referring to people in America who IRRESPONSIBLY have more than 4 children.  It is totally inexcusable to have more than 4 children today. 1-2 would suffice.

    3. Old-Empresario profile image74
      Old-Empresarioposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      gregas, China has practiced infanticide for 2,500 years since before the days of Confucius. They have always feared over-population. Aside from on TV, I have never seen families with 12 or 18 children. The most I have seen is one w/ 9 and one w/ 10.

    4. gmwilliams profile image83
      gmwilliamsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      You have taken the words out of my mouth.  Large families are ridiculous.  It denotes an obsessive psychosis.  What are such parents "thinking"? NOT!

  5. lisavollrath profile image92
    lisavollrathposted 5 years ago

    So, rich people can have more children? Or Christians can have more children? In the US, that would never fly.

    I also think this would never make it into law in the US because it would cause a potential increase in the use of the morning after pill, and abortions. The Christian Right would never stand for that.

    I wonder, though, if society isn't reducing the birth rate on its own. If you look at the birth rate data from The World Bank, it's declining in almost every country. As countries become more developed, the trend is to have fewer children. In the US, the birth rate per 1,000 people has declined since 1980, from 16 to 13.

    1. oceansnsunsets profile image85
      oceansnsunsetsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      I think you are on to something there, re: people lowering the birth rate on their own.  Familes are having less.  Many are opting to no kids at all, or one or two if any.   Ive heard teens talk about with this crazy world, why have kids at all?

  6. Salty Tanned profile image60
    Salty Tannedposted 5 years ago

    With a birth rate of 1.8 why would you propose to limit births?

    1. cam8510 profile image92
      cam8510posted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Good point.  Wish I had thought of that approach before i wrote my dissertation above.

  7. Say Yes To Life profile image80
    Say Yes To Lifeposted 5 years ago

    Rather than put a cap, I believe in a HUGE education program teaching birth control and parenting skills.  That way, people can make informed decisions on the size of their families, or even whether or not to have one in the first place.
    In the US, many people have babies through ignorance.  Girls get knocked up in their teens, adults have kids with no thought of what they have to offer them, they are ignorant about birth control and get skittish about it, and they give absolutely no thought about what sort of backgrounds they come from, which means they simply pass abuse and dysfunction to the next generation.  There has been talk about a law putting drug-addicted women on the Implant; some people protest that as Nazi-ism!  But is it really better to bring crack-addicted babies into the world? 
    Yes, we need earners to support social security, but quantity does not equal quality.

    1. gmwilliams profile image83
      gmwilliamsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      GREAT answer HERE!

  8. Hannah Elise profile image84
    Hannah Eliseposted 5 years ago

    Deciding how many children someone should have based on their earnings, their religion, or their political views? No, that's horrifying and immoral. Horrible.

    1. gregas profile image80
      gregasposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Actually, none of those reasons. It is really depending on what the world is going to support in the future and if we the people don't start thinking about that someday soon, our future children will suffer. It might be in the distant future, but it

    2. cam8510 profile image92
      cam8510posted 5 years agoin reply to this

      It's been said already, but I'll say it again.  The birth rate in the US is at 12.6 per 1000 people.  China's birth rate is 12 per thousand.  We are matching them without any cap. http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.CBRT.IN

    3. gregas profile image80
      gregasposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      They don't have the immigration influx that we do either. Greg

  9. LoisRyan13903 profile image71
    LoisRyan13903posted 5 years ago

    Well I guess I wouldn't have been born.  9th out of 10 children.

  10. oceansnsunsets profile image85
    oceansnsunsetsposted 5 years ago

    I would say no, we should not put a cap on such a thing. I can't see any good or sufficient reason for doing so.  We should, as a community help our fellow man and like another person said, help in education programs, etc.  Life is precious, and we have enough government oversight as it is.  To take away this freedom seems harsh and over reaching in my opinion.

    1. gregas profile image80
      gregasposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      If people don't control themselves now, or at least in the near future, there will come a time when some kind of control will have to be implemented. Not in our lifetime, and probably not even in the lifetime of our grandchildren, but somewhere down

    2. oceansnsunsets profile image85
      oceansnsunsetsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      I hear what you are saying, but I think that we see enough problems like geological ones, atmospheric ones with severe weather, pandemics, etc, that I just have  a hard time seeing us hitting true overpopulation..  What limit do you suggest?

    3. gregas profile image80
      gregasposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks to, if we should even refer to as thanks, plagues, wars and world tragedies we aren't over populated already. But these days we do come up with ways to avoid some of these and the ones we don't avoid don't take as many. Greg

    4. oceansnsunsets profile image85
      oceansnsunsetsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      This is a true ethical issue, a moral one I think.  Its very serious & implications are bigger than people realize.  I think the idea alone needs to be put on a back burner, for all the other current big problems we have.  Too dangerous I think,

  11. Learn Things Web profile image91
    Learn Things Webposted 5 years ago

    It annoys me when people have more children than they can afford but a cap would be impossible to implement without draconian policies.

    1. gmwilliams profile image83
      gmwilliamsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      I find it abusive/selfish if you ask me.  Yes, policies re: family planning should be implemented on such people!

  12. Old-Empresario profile image74
    Old-Empresarioposted 5 years ago

    I honestly don't know many people that want to go to the trouble of raising more than two kids. It's a lot of work for one household. I don't think it's a problem.

    1. gregas profile image80
      gregasposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      "Old" Empresario, you haven't been around very long. There are many families with 5 and more kids, some with as many as 10 and 12 and one in the news a year or so ago that had just had their 18th. There are more of those than you might think. Greg

    2. freecampingaussie profile image60
      freecampingaussieposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      I loved having 3 girls and didn't' find it a lot of work.Having 2 sisters is awesome ! It was very sad losing our 4 child and we would have coped fine .With love + discipline well behaved children are a joy to have. I am amazed at how many struggle

    3. Old-Empresario profile image74
      Old-Empresarioposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      gregas, for the record I have five children plus a step-child. I can afford them. That said, I am clearly an exception. I know, because I interact with parents all the time. You're getting your information from television; not reality.

    4. gregas profile image80
      gregasposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      For the record, I have no problem with having children. I had 2 girls and a boy myself and raised them just fine. And it isn't a matter with the ability to afford them. I am just thinking of what most people don't think of, and that is the future.

    5. gmwilliams profile image83
      gmwilliamsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Old Empresario, with 3-4 children, parents still have the reins. The problem is when there are 5-6 or more children. The parents DON'T raise them at all it 's the OLDEST/OLDER children who raise the younger siblings. Smart people have small families.

  13. profile image0
    SirDentposted 5 years ago

    Sure, let's tell people how many children they can have according to income.  Maybe my income cannot even support one child.  Let the government come and make sure my wife and I have no children.  Of course I am a believer and follower of Jesus Christ also.  That would take care of two problems at one time.

    I am not a liberal, so that makes threee problems solved with one fell swoop.

    I think a better idea would be to outlaw sex completely.   No more sex for anyone at all.  If they get the urge, let them play monopoly or rummy. 

    You know, I have read many times that there is no such thing as a stupid question.  I have to disagree with that because this one is pretty stupid. 

    The world can handle more people that many think.  There is a lot of land that is uninhabited in the world.  The US alone could grow enough food to feed the whole world.  We have gotten so far away from God that it is not even funny. 

    The population of the world will decrease, but not in the way you suppose.  The next world war will take care of much of the world's population.

    1. oceansnsunsets profile image85
      oceansnsunsetsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Good points, hard to rebut.  Acres and acres of empty land, we are not even close to becoming overpopulated on the planet.  Its just an idea that is tossed about a lot, without a lot of thought to the morality of it.  It leads to dangerous places.

    2. gregas profile image80
      gregasposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      You have to think about food and water for all of those people that you are putting on all that open land. Especially water. Greg

    3. profile image0
      SirDentposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      The US govt pays farmers not to plant certain crops.  Farmers could grow enough food to feed the world.  Greed is the problem.

  14. lone77star profile image83
    lone77starposted 5 years ago

    Or decided by the whim of Big Brother.

    Never!

    The problems of the world have nothing to do with population, but with selfishness (ego, self-concern). The psychopathic elite would love to have this control.

  15. gmwilliams profile image83
    gmwilliamsposted 5 years ago

    https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/11949572_f260.jpg

    Definitely!  Anywhere from 1 to 4 children per family is fine for couples granted that they are prepared socioeconomically, emotionally, & psychologically for parenthood.  I believe that socioeconomic factors play a very important part in having children.  Poor people SHOULDN'T have children as they are unable to provide their children w/a high quality of life.  For a poor person to have children would be the utter height of selfishness & abuse.  Children born into socioeconomically poor environment are doomed from the start.

    Small & medium sized families(1-4 children per household) provide the idea environment for children to grow up in.  There is more monies allocated per child.  Children in such families received more parental attention & love.  Each child is treated on an equal parity.  There is opportunity for each child to enjoy a normative childhood/adolescence.  There are also more educational/cultural opportunities in small/medium-sized families.

    No couple should have more than 4 children.  In medium large(5 children) & large families(6-more children), children will not receive the prerequisite parental attention.  Also parents could not effectively raise such a large number of children which means oldest/older children will assume parenting duties forfeiting their own childhood/adolescence.  Poverty is rife in such families as there is little monies for each child.  That means children will have to work p/t & weekend jobs in childhood to get the things normal children have.  It isn't unusual in large families for children to forgo secondary& tertiary education to work to help support parents & siblings. Children in medium large& large families end up to be the LEAST educated while children in small/medium sized families end up to be the MOST educated because they have more opportunities to pursue their education.

  16. Rochelle Frank profile image91
    Rochelle Frankposted 8 weeks ago

    I remember hearing of a government campaign in a large country that had a large population of poor people.
    Since most of the poor were also illiterate the government made up a poster which showed two families.
    On one side was a family with two children. They looked healthy, clean, happy, well- fed and well-clothed. On the other side it showed a family with six children. They looked sickly, dirty, sad, undernourished and dressed in rags.
    The people looked at he pictures and said, "Look at those poor people... they only have two children."

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

      Excellent point.  A great many people put love and family ahead of money.

      1. gmwilliams profile image83
        gmwilliamsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

        It isn't an excellent point. It is an illogical point.  The governmental ad is trying to educate these people regarding THE IMPORTANCE of FAMILY PLANNING.   These people are illiterate & uneducated, refusing to acknowledge that they are IMPOVERISHED because of their LARGE families.   They are further condemning their children to a LIFE OF POVERTY because of their REFUSAL TO LEARN ABOUT FAMILY PLANNING!  Remember, the poor are AT THE BOTTOM of the world & can be easily exploited. 

        Poverty is wrong & pathological.  Impoverished families are victims of exploitation, slavery, trafficking, & other ills. Impoverished parents sell their children in order to supplement income!  Such families have no love- they are EKEING an existence! To such families, children are burdens as they have FAR TOO MANY!   What ARE YOU "thinking", Wilderness?   Please use inductive & deductive logic!  What DID YOU LEARN IN COLLEGE???? You are glorifying abject poverty which has deleterious effects on people!  Talk about Luciferian inference i.e. stating that bad situations are good.

        Wilderness, POVERTY ISN'T A GOOD THING.  Repeat after me, SOCIOECONOMIC POVERTY ISN'T A GOOD THING- SOCIOECONOMIC WEALTH IS A GREAT THING. I suggest that you read some books on economic wealth.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

          What am I thinking?  I'm thinking that your gross exaggeration, trying to make it sound like anyone with 3 or more children must live under a bridge, in torn clothing falling from their bodies, with extended bellies from near starvation, is so far out of touch with reality as to be meaningless.

          I'm thinking that your lack of siblings and familial love and caring has left you completely out of touch with what others enjoy and cherish.  I'm thinking that your professed love of money is the controlling factor in your life and that it is truly sad.

          1. gmwilliams profile image83
            gmwilliamsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

            To educate you, large families are impoverished.  Studies have confirmed this.  Please read a book. I have studied families.  I grew up around large families & they were impoverished.  They didn't have even the rudiments.  They had to receive OUTSIDE help to stay socioeconomically afloat.  You are so far from reality, it quite laughable.  In my circle, you would be considered to be clueless, unknowledgeable, & backwards in your thinking.  Larger families=poverty while smaller families DON'T.

            I have familial love- from  my late parents, my cousins & friends.  My cousins & friends keep in constant contact w/me.  One doesn't need siblings to have love.  I know people who have siblings who don't give a damn about them.   In fact, I know plenty of people w/siblings who NEVER contact them at all.  My late mother had siblings- they only called her only when THEY NEEDED MONEY!   Again, you have demonstrated cluelessness.

            Money is very important in this society & culture.  To educate you yet again, money is needed for a civilized way of life. Money provides for the future.  As my late father stated, some people are HARD TO LEARN.  You are HARD TO LEARN.  You are the one DIVORCED from reality- you believe in poverty & want.   You are content being impoverished.   I have had PLENTY of love in my life.   Being from a small family affords love.  Children in larger families don't have that parental love.  I grew up around people in larger families- they stated that they NEVER HAD THE LOVE from their parents that I & others from small families had!   My mother even stated that her mother never gave her the attention that I had which made her quite needy.  I never was needy because I received parental attention as a child.  One of my cousins is calling me to go see a play & then go out to a restaurant.   Another cousin is going to take me to a restaurant on New Year's Eve-see I am quite busy.   You are WRONG again about only children- ENVY is a toxic thing, Wilderness.   What you DON'T know makes ANOTHER WORLD.  Hang around some only children & it will dispel your HATRED of them!  Only children are LOVELY people.

            1. PrettyPanther profile image83
              PrettyPantherposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

              It is nice that you are happy as an only child and have achieved a comfortable economic status. That does not mean, though, that everyone shares your priorities. Some people find happiness through large families and care little about money. Live and let live.

              1. gmwilliams profile image83
                gmwilliamsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

                That may be true but I don't believe that children should be brought up in poverty.  The average large family receives OUTSIDE assistance to stay afloat at the basis level. Children in large families don't even have the basics- many go to bed hungry & without even the basic things.  Children should live comfortable lives w/myriad educational, cultural, & socioeconomic opportunities.  No child should live in socioeconomic poverty in the midst of plenty- that to me is a mortal, damnable sin.  If one knows better, do better.  There is no excuse for large families in the postmodern era of advanced birth control.  I am passionate about this subject.  I have seen children impoverished, hating their parents because their parents were IRRESPONSIBLE enough to constantly reproduce children, knowing that they can ill afford to do so. 

                C'mon Pretty, you are a liberal, educated woman.  I staunchly, even vehemently believe in birth control & small families because such provide a high quality of life & choices for children.  Even religious people use birth control & have small families these days.  No caring, thinking person wants to subject their children to poverty, struggle, & hardship which is what large families subject children to on a constant basis.  The people I know from large families weren't happy.  They weren't happy w/ the lack of privacy, crowded living conditions, & having to work to buy things that other normal children had.  They always wanted to borrow things because their parents didn't have money to buy them school supplies such as pencils, rulers, & erasers.  They also hated children who had more than they did- so much that one girl from a large family destroyed another girl's dress.

                Pretty, there is an underside to large families. The poverty & want.   Little or no parental attention or affection.  No hugs nor kisses. Neglect is rife in large families. Children from large families raise themselves &/or each others as parents are stretched thin. In large families, children have to learn to navigate the familial waters in order to survive.  Many large family environments are akin to concentration camps.  Yes, I said concentration camps. If a child isn't strong in the large family environment, h/she will fall through the familial cracks- I saw this w/my maternal uncle.  There is no such thing as individualized parent-child attention in large families.  In fact, there is little or no parent-child interaction in large families as it is in small families.  I don't know of anyone from a large family who is CLOSE with his/her parents.  However, I know plenty of people from small families who are EXTREMELY CLOSE with their parents. 

                I have studied the family in college.  I also read books on families & observe large families through childhood friends, acquaintances, & extended family members.  I wouldn't wish large families on the proverbial Satan.

                1. hard sun profile image89
                  hard sunposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

                  I don't think kids should be raised by wealthy individuals who send them off to boarding schools and what not. The fact is, however, it's really none of my business. I don't know what large families you know, but..wow.

                  1. gmwilliams profile image83
                    gmwilliamsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

                    I saw nothing wrong w/wealthy parents sending their children to boarding schools  It gives such children great perspectives & they learn about different cultures.  Boarding schools make children broad-minded & makes them independent.  While you criticize the wealthy & how they raise their children, you fail to criticize poor people who irresponsibly have children when they can ill afford it.  I see the latter as irresponsible, even evil.  These wealthy parents have plenty to offer their children in terms of opportunities & culture while poor parents only have to offer their children want, struggle, no opportunities, & generational impoverishment.

                2. PrettyPanther profile image83
                  PrettyPantherposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

                  There is some truth to everything you say, but it is not your place, or anyone's place, to tell other people how many children they can have.

              2. hard sun profile image89
                hard sunposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

                I've been following this discussion, and was going to add something almost identical to this. I just grow tired of having to state the same type of thing in so many discussions here. I think that we, as a people in general, are far too concerned with stereotypes and thinking we know what is best for everyone else. The ones who are happiest are the winners. I think we've all known some miserable wealthy people and some happy low income people. Of course, it's difficult to be happy when your starving, but as Wilderness pointed out, that's just not the case with MOST people in "developed" nations. We need to keep it that way.

    2. gmwilliams profile image83
      gmwilliamsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

      Yeah, the uneducated who made that illogical remark are THE ONES people are sending money to SUPPORT.  It is the unintelligent who BELIEVE THIS way, not knowing that outside agencies are SUPPORTING them as they CAN'T support themselves adequately.  In essence, such people are LOST & NEED to be educated regarding birth control, even FORCIBLY.

      The government poster has confirmed my point ad infinitum.  It is the unintelligent, uneducated or less educated who have larger families. They view families as insurance & view their children as THEIR financial support system.  They feel that their children should live FOR THEM. There is NO LOVE in such families, just a burdensome, hellish way of life!  The same applies to people in more affluent nations such as America who have larger families.  They have a more primitive, atavistic philosophy. They feel that their children are there to SUPPORT them. They also lead a burdensome, hellish life, not knowing where their next meal comes from or if they have enough rudiments-this is prevalent in larger families. They could care less about the children they bring into the world.  The more intelligent & educated people are, the SMALLER the families.  In small families, children have a high standard of living beyond the basic rudiments.  Time to become educated!

      To intelligent, forward thinking people, it shows that small families LIVE BETTER.   The people who made the negative remarks are the uneducated ones who need to be educated on the BENEFITS of the small family.   These are the illiterates who continue to live impoverished & their children will follow such negative patterns.   Countries w/large families are the MOST IMPOVERISHED countries.  People have to be TAUGHT that LARGE FAMILIES EQUAL POVERTY & POVERTY EQUALS LESS SOCIOECONOMIC & EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES.   Let's use LOGIC HERE!

  17. Onusonus profile image79
    Onusonusposted 8 weeks ago

    Liberals love telling people how to run their lives. The correct answer is to stop giving free money to people and they'll think twice about getting knocked up.

    1. gmwilliams profile image83
      gmwilliamsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

      Well, that makes sense; however, people must be educated to the CONSEQUENCES of IRRESPONSIBLE behavior.    Since some people are irresponsible, MORE DRASTIC measures have to be IMPLEMENTED in order to teach IRRESPONSIBLE people LESSONS.  Such people need to be...……..FORCIBLY STERILIZED- PROBLEM SOLVED!

      1. Onusonus profile image79
        Onusonusposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

        You have something in common with Hitler.

        1. gmwilliams profile image83
          gmwilliamsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

          If people are irresponsible regarding reproduction, FORCE has to be implemented.  As some parents say to their irresponsible teenagers, if you act like a child, I WILL TREAT YOU AS A CHILD.  Irresponsible people must be treated as children because they act like children.  I know you agree w/me!

          1. Onusonus profile image79
            Onusonusposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

            Not in the least. People should get to decide how to run their own lives and deal with the consequences without government assistance. The reason you don't like my answer is it's too simple, it shrinks government instead of making big daddy the solution to your problems. The government only subsidizes irresponsibility and entitlement.

            1. gmwilliams profile image83
              gmwilliamsposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

              I TOTALLY AGREE with you.  If people are irresponsible by themselves, let them rot.  But if they have children, why should children suffer because of stupid, unintelligent, & irresponsible parents.   That is why there should be licensing for parenthood(we have licenses for almost everything else) & those who are deemed irresponsible, should be forcibly sterilized.

              1. Onusonus profile image79
                Onusonusposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                Your sentiment is completely based on status and wealth. 99% of the rest of the world make less money than the average American. Do they deserve to die? Is poverty a fate worse than death?

                1. gmwilliams profile image83
                  gmwilliamsposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                  No one deserves to die but living conditions can & should be improved so that people can live a comfortable life worthy of human dignity.  No human should live in impoverished conditions.

                  1. Onusonus profile image79
                    Onusonusposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                    Again your focus is on wealth. I would say that no human should have to live under the guise of a dictator who decides what will make others happy. We are endowed by our creator with the inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Not your version of happiness, you don't get to decide what makes people happy, they do. And as long as it doesn't infringe on my right to life, liberty, or property, let them live freely as they choose.

      2. Live to Learn profile image81
        Live to Learnposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

        Can't say I agree with onusonus. His assessment doesn't go far enough in describing the evil contained in your comment.

        If we advocate forced sterilization I'd be inclined to advocate it for anyone expressing such hateful views.

        1. gmwilliams profile image83
          gmwilliamsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

          The comment isn't evil in the least.  It is a truthful comment.  There are irresponsible people out there.  These people won't listen to correction.  They aim to continue in their destructive, dismal lifestyle.  Such people need to be sterilized.  Think of the people on welfare who continuously have children on tax dollars- yes, I SAID IT- such people should be forcibly sterilized & put to work!

          1. Live to Learn profile image81
            Live to Learnposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

            The good news is those such as yourself are relegated to online rants. You'll never be in a position to drive policy with such unhinged ideas.

            1. gmwilliams profile image83
              gmwilliamsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

              There are people who think as I do.  These people are highly educated (Masters Degrees) & who have careers.   These ideas aren't unhinged in the least.  Such ideas have been around since the 1970s, even before.  There are people who contend that those who are irresponsible should be forcibly sterilized.  You don't read much do you?  There were the eugenics movement & Social Darwinism in the early 20th century. 

              In high school, there was a book by Dr. Paul Ehrlich called THE POPULATION BOMB.  I suggest that you purchase the book & READ IT THOROUGHLY.  I read the book.  This book was published in 1971.  During that time in America, there were forward thinking people who contended that people should have no more than two children & that anyone who had more than two children should be penalized through taxes & some extremists suggest that such people be forcibly sterilized.   Again, there should be a limit as to how many children couples should have.  Intelligent, educated couples practice limits whereas those who are more irresponsible should have mandatory birth control.  This premise is nothing new! Many people believe as I do but are fearful of voicing this.  Well, I have never been afraid to voice my well thought out opinion.  If a person is irresponsible, h/she shouldn't be a parent!

              1. Live to Learn profile image81
                Live to Learnposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                Yes. The ideas aren't new. Nazi sympathizers had them. They used the 'highly educated' argument to justify their hatred too.

                Only fools fell for it then. Even fools know better now.

                1. gmwilliams profile image83
                  gmwilliamsposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                  There are irresponsible people out there.  You know it & I know it.  Such people are unfit to become parents.  Yes, such people should be sterilized as such people will only be detrimental to their children.  Are you capable of using elementary inductive & deductive logic?????   A smart six year old can understand this point!

                  https://hubstatic.com/12369431.jpg

                  1. Live to Learn profile image81
                    Live to Learnposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                    Sounds like an argument a six year old might put forth. When raised by Nazis.

        2. PhoenixV profile image61
          PhoenixVposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

          Is it wrong for me to sometimes, quietly, cheer for global warming?

          1. gmwilliams profile image83
            gmwilliamsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

            NOT AT ALL.

            1. PhoenixV profile image61
              PhoenixVposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

              https://i.ytimg.com/vi/flBqojLpAnI/maxresdefault.jpg

          2. Live to Learn profile image81
            Live to Learnposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

            lol

  18. gmwilliams profile image83
    gmwilliamsposted 8 weeks ago

    As I stated before, the cap should be on 2 children well perhaps 3-4 children but NO MORE.

  19. hard sun profile image89
    hard sunposted 8 weeks ago

    I think Dolly Parton said it best:

    "So with patches on my britches and holes in both my shoes
    In my coat of many colors I hurried off to school
    Just to find the others laughing and a making fun of me
    In my coat of many colors my mama made for me
    And oh I couldn't understand for I felt I was rich
    And I told them all the love my mama sewed in every stich
    And I told them all the story mama told me while she sewed
    And how my coat of many colors was worth more than all their clothes

    But they didn't understand and I tried to make them see
    One is only poor only if they choose to be
    Now I know we have no money but I was rich as I could be
    In my coat of many colors mama made for me
    Made just for me"

    1. gmwilliams profile image83
      gmwilliamsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

      Really??? Are you in the land of OZ? Well, I am going to bring you from LA LA land into reality.  Let's get REAL here! It is just a song- a song, not reality.  Dolly wasn't happy but wanted to rationalize her abject circumstances in a song. Don't you know the difference?!  Well, I guess not!

      I knew people from large families in the same circumstances & they were MISERABLE.    No one in his/her right mind rejoices in poverty & misery.   That is the definition of masochism.   A mentally healthy person doesn't want to be poor nor rear his/her child in poverty & want.  What are people "thinking" here??????? (Nonplussed at the inverse logic presented).   Yet another case of Luciferian inference- that is believing that bad is good.  Well, bad ISN'T good.  What you are stating is akin to a person who stated that being in a gulag is a good thing, an abused woman stating that her husband is the best husband imaginable...…..C'mon be logical- no one is happy growing up & living impoverished with scraps.  One has to be masochistic to be happy impoverished.  Use logic, people!  It isn't THAT HARD.  USE A LITTLE LOGIC- NO ONE IS HAPPY BEING POOR-IMPOVERISHED!  I suggest that you read some book on the deleterious effects of poverty on children.   Read & learn!!!!  (scratching my head & rolling my eyes).

      Dealt with poor to impoverished children as a child in elementary school.  They weren't happy.  In fact, they were miserable.  We middle class children had to help them by donating clothing etc.  These poor children from large families, of course, had to have OUTSIDE assistance to be afloat.  C'mon people, YOU ALL KNOW BETTER to spout this malarkey that there are rich, miserable people & there are happy, poor people.  Nope.  The rich people I know were happy & grateful, using the money to enjoy life, provide opportunities for their children, & to help others.  The poor people I know are miserable, worried about bills, & where they will sleep.  Stop living in dreamland, hardsun.   Reality is that wealth is good, even great while poverty is evil.  If poverty wasn't evil, people wouldn't implement steps to reduce, even stop poverty.   To paraphrase Cher, stop the CRAP!

      1. hard sun profile image89
        hard sunposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

        Happiness is in the mind. That is clear. I've been happier, at times, when I was impoverished, than when I had relatively good means. I learned these things at a very young age. Your passionate diatribes and shouting are not helping your case.  Comparing having mom knit you a dress to being a gulag is just silly IMO. How did Dolly grow up to be wealthy? I'm not stating monetary wealth is bad... I am stating it's sad that some seem to think that it's the only kind of wealth.  You are stating everyone who is officially in "poverty" is miserable? I see otherwise on a daily basis.

    2. Live to Learn profile image81
      Live to Learnposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

      That's a great point. It's a matter of perspective. I was born poor, my family had great financial success so by the time I was a young teenager I had many perks which came with money. But, my great memories are when we were poor.

      My dad had more time to spend with us kids, we made our own fun (and it was way more fun than the fun money provides).

      I feel sorry for people who judge value of anything by how much money you have. It's a very unsatisfying way to live...always counting who has what, material wise.

      1. gmwilliams profile image83
        gmwilliamsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

        Dearie, wake up to REALITY.  People are valued by how much money they have.  They are also treated by others by how many money they have.  Socioeconomic classes DO exist.   If one is rich, h/she is treated better & more deferentially than if one is poor then h/she is treated insignificantly.  Were you taught this?   Have you heard of net worth?  Yes, net worth exists.  People, READ!  You are living in LALA land.  Note: you are no longer in OZ but the real world where money has SIGNIFICANT value.   Good God people...…….(rolling eyes & scratching head).  Where are YOU PEOPLE FROM?!  Mars?  On earth, money is important & determines a person's value!  If one is poor, h/she is a NOBODY-I was taught that!

      2. hard sun profile image89
        hard sunposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

        Circumstances helped lead me to the point I am now. However, I've now also made a conscious choice to make a little less money in order to spend more time with my kids, teach them how to change a fuel pump, grow a robust garden, etc. These things makes us rich, and noone can tell me otherwise. Many of my kids' friends don't get the same kind of education, and are raised by youtube cause mom and dad have to make $150 grand a year to feel good about themselves.

        It sounds like your dad may have made the same type of choice.

        1. Live to Learn profile image81
          Live to Learnposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

          I don't fault my parents their choices. As I always expected them not to fault mine. I have a sister who was traumatized for life,according to her, because of that early poverty. But she was older and of a different mindset. (She might be GM. Who knows?) So, it takes all kinds. Life would be boring without the diversity.

          1. hard sun profile image89
            hard sunposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

            This is exactly how I feel, and why I try not to judge other parents. Family dynamics are kind of like any relationship. It's very difficult to know how things really are unless you really are there all the time. And, some kids react very differently to be raised one way, than another kid will, just as your example with your sister. As a parent, all I can do is try the best I can to understand each child.

            Ultimately, it's up to that child though. We all know the kid who was raised in a clearly horrendous situation that turns out to be a well-adjusted architect. This doesn't excuse the parents' actions that lead to a clearly bad environment, but I think it outlines the point.

            Basically, I'm not stating parents who do things differently than me are wrong (within reason)... it's just not how I do things.

            1. gmwilliams profile image83
              gmwilliamsposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

              Family dynamics is a complex thing.  Many things goes into family dynamics such as the family paradigm, family size, family background-sociopolitical, sociocultural, religious, educational & socioeconomic, & birth order.  Birth order is so crucial in families as one birth order determines how one is treated by parents.  There is also the issue of favoritism- how one child is treated in comparison to the other children in the family if there are siblings.  Within favoritism, there is the phenomena o the golden child i.e. the child who can do no wrong.  On the flip side, there is the child who is disfavored, the outcast, or even the child who is scapegoated by parents & other family members.   Then there is the old boogaboo-sibling rivalry which is caused by many things & can last a lifetime.   It was nice talking to you hard sun.

          2. gmwilliams profile image83
            gmwilliamsposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

            The statement that poverty builds character is a feel good myth which has no basis in reality. Such a statement is fallacious on its face.  In fact, poverty demoralizes a child.  Poverty makes children hard & cynical.  Children in poverty lean towards delinquent behavior.  They indulge in illegal activities.  Children in poverty grow up to be in gangs, drug runners, etc.  Children who grow up in poverty tend to bully well-off children because they wish they were the latter.  I have observed this & my mother, a nurse, told me stories of such children.  Poverty never builds character but demoralizes it.  That is why people are fighting to reduce, if not end poverty.  If poverty was such a great thing, people wouldn't be fighting to REDUCE/END it.

            I know children who were traumatized by early poverty, it made them very bitter & envious of those of better socioeconomic circumstances.   I have an aunt born into poverty(this is my oldest aunt-she is deceased now). She was so traumatized by early poverty that she is envious of those who are well off. In fact, she has a HATRED of those who are socioeconomically better off.  She never bothered to improve herself- all she did was complain about her poverty.   My mother, on the other hand, was also born impoverished but she studied & work hard- becoming solidly middle class.

            I was born solidly middle class.  I have been solidly middle class all my life.  I become upper middle class in the last years of my job.  I now middle or middling class(retired) on a fixed income but am happy nevertheless.  I don't envy anyone who is wealthier.  I am happy w/what I have- live in a nice apartment, have loving cousins & friends who keep in constant contact.  I read, sketch, dance, & cook as hobbies.   If I want something, I know how to get it through writing.   Some people thrive in circumstances while others are crushed by them.  I have known & still know people who are better off than me socioeconomically- I am very glad for them.  I don't envy anyone it is so toxic.  I just want to be THE VERY BEST me.

            1. Live to Learn profile image81
              Live to Learnposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

              I hope they haven't become as unhinged as your arguments make you sound.

              My motto is 'there are no mistakes if we use experience as learning lessons for life.'

              1. gmwilliams profile image83
                gmwilliamsposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                Not unhinged at all but passionate regarding beliefs. I have observed plenty from friends, associates, & extended family members in addition to studying the family extensively in college.  I believe in family planning & small families.  I also believe that couples shouldn't have children until they are financially, emotionally, & psychologically prepared.  If people followed those principles, there would be significantly less societal problems.  Remember the old saying a stitch in time saves nine.  Or a better saying, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

                Sometimes mistakes can irreparably ruin lives.  For example, getting fired from a job can ruin one's career chances as one is seen as damaged goods by future employers.  I was taught to make as little mistakes as possible because mistakes can ruin one's life.  I was further taught that being fired from a job is a career killer by my late parents.

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Passionate in beliefs, yes.  Particularly in the belief that you have, or should have, the right to dictate to others how they should live and what their priorities should be, even to the extent that you would surgically mutilate those that disagree with you or that do not share your priorities.

                  Thank goodness we don't live in that kind of country.

                  1. gmwilliams profile image83
                    gmwilliamsposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                    Have a Happy New Year Wilderness.

  20. gmwilliams profile image83
    gmwilliamsposted 8 weeks ago

    Again, we all have digressed.   I am concluding that yes a cap should be put on as to how many children is allowed per family.  There are irresponsible people out there who breed incessantly w/no regard for their present children's & future children's welfare.  Think of the Duggars, Turpins, & other large families.  In this postmodern society, anywhere from 1-4 children is reasonable but anymore than that is IRRESPONSIBLE.   There are some who strongly contend that no one should have more than 2 children per family as replacement value & even 3 children per family is IRRESPONSIBLE.  Intelligent, educated people have small families & know the importance & benefits of family planning.
    https://hubstatic.com/12740435.jpg

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

      How do you intend to enforce your law controlling how other people live?  Forced surgical sterilization after the 4th child (and who gets to determine how many kids, for that matter)?  Will you put large fines on families larger than you like, forcing them into poverty?  Will you take the children from the parents, forcing society to care for them in the "system" that is such a failure?

      1. gmwilliams profile image83
        gmwilliamsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this

        It isn't within my capacity to do this.  However, there are those in government & in powerful positions who advocate what I am saying.  The Bilderburg group indicates that there are way too many people in the world.  They advocate drastic means in order to decrease the population.   Don't worry in the future, there will be the educated & affluent who will rule the world & the poor who with their excessive population will destroy themselves from within through crime brought on by their socioeconomic impoverishment.

  21. PhoenixV profile image61
    PhoenixVposted 7 weeks ago

    Think of the people that would never have been born if your compulsory sterilization program were enacted. People like Abraham Lincoln, Jesus and Crocodile Dundee come to mind.

  22. Onusonus profile image79
    Onusonusposted 7 weeks ago

    https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/81398912_1285573244982041_3658974002006720512_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=SiRq6Xxa8AAAQmSWnI0vFOYLG0OiTnJzbdUJPRjQxg7Alo373YDQPAk7A&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=f5fa4eca306a18da2822238788fc66e0&oe=5E68313B

  23. Onusonus profile image79
    Onusonusposted 7 weeks ago

    https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/81109979_2487593628016603_7234053003366367232_n.png?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ohc=GJvja-omPbwAQlClNrxQFc2Rm1h2BOdCqi-8QwQZOC6TgU15nlVM-NRzw&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=e172f41d773605984bf01488be63abbb&oe=5EB34B0E

    1. Randy Godwin profile image92
      Randy Godwinposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

      "Joey Appleseed."  lol

  24. Onusonus profile image79
    Onusonusposted 7 weeks ago

    https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/81976736_1286168191589213_6376409083020312576_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=7hDx7wuFRLQAQmrXMIEh5aIT5RmBelJsdSCO_BG4ZQ9dumt6ARPNDeQ4g&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=810a3cb717c230746da763087bd2a294&oe=5EA61BCF

    1. Randy Godwin profile image92
      Randy Godwinposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

      But we only get a lying, arrogant, imbecile in the WH.

      1. Onusonus profile image79
        Onusonusposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

        And yet you still think these people will solve our problems.

    2. hard sun profile image89
      hard sunposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

      I'm curious as this seems really nonsensical. Who is going to "save" us then? You can say we can only save ourselves, but how are we to do that if not through a politician? Is this advocating some sort of revolution? If so, how are we then supposed to guarantee that we get all these things done? If they want to jail me for weed, I can't just say "no, you can't do that."  I also cannot take on the police force with me and a few of my buddies. The only thing we can do is put pressure on our representatives, or our politicians. Are libertarians saying we should give up on the only thing that gives most of us any sort of power whatsoever when it comes to our federal and state governments?

      1. Onusonus profile image79
        Onusonusposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
        1. gmwilliams profile image83
          gmwilliamsposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

          Yes, the free market is good.  However, poverty is a problem in America.  The poor have to educated with the desire to improve themselves educationally & socioeconomically.   They have to see higher goals in life.  Psychologists & social scientists have stated that the poor have a limited trajectory of life.   It is called the culture of poverty.  People who are impoverished see only immediate gratification but not long term goals which they feel are fantastical but not realistic.  They live for & act in the moment without being concerned for future consequences. 

          Onusonus is right stating that governmental programs only make the poor lose incentive to improve themselves thus becoming more dependent.  It is an ingrained mentality of the poor that they are victims who feel that others are holding them back & are out to get them.   In order to get out of poverty, ONE has to HAVE THE DESIRE to improve himself/herself educationally & socioeconomically.   The poor have to reeducated to want more in life beyond the rudiments but that will be long process.  Philosophies & mindsets are THE MOST DIFFICULT to change.

          1. hard sun profile image89
            hard sunposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

            There are people out here who are officially in poverty who rely on no govt programs and are very happy.  Likely not in less developed nations, but, yes here in America, this exists. I understand that you just don't want to read this, or acknowledge this fact, but it doesn't make it untrue.

            What if I desire to improve myself by doing more things for myself thus making it easier to live with less? You see, I can remodel my own bathroom, fix my own car, etc. thus saving me money but not adding to my bank account. Money is ABSOLUTELY not the key to happiness and fulfillment.

            1. gmwilliams profile image83
              gmwilliamsposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

              People want to live a civilized lifestyle beyond rudimentary struggle.  I hope so.  I know I DO.  Money is the key to happiness & fulfillment.  One can't live a fulfilling life w/o money.  Money is crucial to good living.    Money rules the world.  Basics like food, clothing, & shelter cost.  These are the necessities.  If one want culture & travel, it costs.   Nothing is FREE.   To live minimally requires at least a middle class salary.   People who live in poverty hardly have monies for the bare rudiments.  In fact, they are living below water socioeconomically.  On average, they receive outside assistance although they won't admit aid.  Even middle class families get aid.  One has to be at the minimum upper middle class to live decently- with money for necessities & beyond.  Even the middle class are having it hard socioeconomically.

              It is fantastical supposition to contend that there are "people in poverty" but "are happy".  That is adolescent thinking as adolescents have an idealistic view of life because they don't experience the everyday work world.  When one experiences the work world, that idea changes- one learns that the MORE MONEY, the MORE CHOICES!

              Nah uh, people in socioeconomic poverty are struggling just to survive. It is very difficult for them to survive.   Many have to choose between rent & food- many have to go hungry because food is so expensive.  If they do eat, it is low quality food because quality food is expensive & beyond the purview of low income people.  Hell, it is sometimes difficult for solidly middle class people to get good quality food.

              Housing costs are expensive for middle class people, let alone for poor people.   The only people who aren't experiencing difficulties are upper middle class people.   What you are stating is fallacious in scope.  Poor people are constantly struggling to make ends meet.  Sometimes, they are drowning socioeconomically.   Life isn't easy for anyone except the upper middle & upper classes.  Money does buy a life of choices which is a happy life!

              1. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                Yes, you do (want a civilized lifestyle of leisure and luxury). 

                But not everyone worships money and what it can buy, and no matter how you spin it your lifelong struggle for more money is not a better goal than what others have.  Seem to me that the majority of the people have decided that the endless pursuit of wealth is NOT a worthwhile goal; that it is actually very detrimental to both humanity in general and individual people.

                1. gmwilliams profile image83
                  gmwilliamsposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Mr. Henry David Thoreau, you advocate the simple, primitive life w/just rudiments for everyone; however, there are people who want more from life than a primitive existence.  There is nothing wrong w/working & wanting more from life than an animalistic, primitive existence.   If people followed you, they would still be living in caves.

                  "Seem to me that the majority of the people have decided that the endless pursuit of wealth is NOT a worthwhile goal; that it is actually very detrimental to both humanity in general and individual people".  Uh huh, but these are the SAME people who complain about rising food, medical, clothing, & housing costs.  They complain about things being expensive.  They complain, complain, complain about their socioeconomic status but refuse to take socioeconomic responsibility for their lives.  They would rather waste their lives- looking at the idiot tube & pursuing other inane social pursuits.   People can do better if they want to do so but they are too lazy to do so. 

                  It is NONE of your business if people want to pursue wealth & success.  I admire ambitious people.  At least, they are taking charge on their lives instead of being the sheeple who accept their socioeconomic predicament.  My Caribbean born father(he is deceased) instilled this philosophy in me.  He believed in educational & socioeconomic improvement & achievement  He stressed that work & success were the most important things in life & that social life was a sign of idleness. To him, anyone who wasn't pursuing goals, was a lazy wastrel unworthy of life.  He furthermore stated that this person was an utter failure.

              2. hard sun profile image89
                hard sunposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                My mortgage is $310 a month...for a three bedroom house. We live cheap cause we can. I love it. Life is only as easy or hard as you make it. Life is very hard for some very rich people. Your insistence that people cannot be happy if they don't have much money is very odd IMO. I hope you truly are enjoying your life.

                It is NONE of your business if people want to pursue a life of self sufficiency that's relatively free from the fruitless rat race of more for the sake of more.  I admire these ambitious people.

                I don't think anyone stated people shouldn't be free to pursue a life filled with as much wealth as they can get.  It does seem you're stating people should not be free to drop out of the rat race. Live and let live.

                1. gmwilliams profile image83
                  gmwilliamsposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                  In New York City, 3 bedroom apartments cost at least $1000 monthly & in some areas, $3000 monthly-W0W!

                  1. hard sun profile image89
                    hard sunposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                    Yeah. I wouldn't want to make 30 grand a year in NYC. That's a different story. My point is that there are people who live on relatively little means and do so very well.

        2. hard sun profile image89
          hard sunposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

          The mythical free market is not going to prevent unjust laws. Human nature doesn't even allow for a truly free market.

          Besides, who would you rely on to keep that market "free?" Politicians, and judges are the only ones in that position.

          Government is a necessary evil. We can only fight to make it as less evil as possible.

          1. Onusonus profile image79
            Onusonusposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

            Politicians make the market free??? lol
            Politicians are the ones who create laws that cause cronyism. They get the kick backs, they ensure nepotism, they kill small businesses by setting an unsustainable minimum wage and now are starting to force employers to pay for extended maternity leave. They are literally going to pay for an employee to be gone for months. No small business can support this.

            1. hard sun profile image89
              hard sunposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

              I'm not sure you're understanding my point. Politicians are unavoidable in the real world. If we had none, I guarantee you that we would have some the next day. This pie in the sky libertarian wild west notion is quaint, but the fact is even the real wild west had politicians and laws. 

              Of course there is corruption. This is one BIG reason why markets will never be free.  Laws can be anti-free market and they can be pro-free market. Do you really think things like kickbacks would not happen if we had no government? Without pro-free market laws, we have nothing even resembling a free market.

              Having no politicians would only make it less likely to have a free market... unless you consider corporate crony capitalism, paying to have the competition murdered, etc., to be part of a free market. I've lived in lawless environments...it's no fun. To maintain a free market, you need a government, which means you would need politicians.

              Once again though, there is no such thing as a truly free market on a scale larger than a few people. There are only levels of market systems...but not 100% free market as some think they would cherish so much.

              1. Onusonus profile image79
                Onusonusposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                Government may be a necessary evil which is why it should be as small as possible. And I can think of twenty trillion reasons why.
                https://pics.me.me/without-government-who-will-build-the-spikes-where-homelesspeople-sleep-11737134.png

              2. gmwilliams profile image83
                gmwilliamsposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                We need governments to instill laws & to curb corruption.  That is understood by me at least.  I believe in corporations & business-however, such things should be run ethically.  Sadly, most people aren't evolved enough to apply business principles ethically which explains why there must be governmental controls over business.   We need laws because most people aren't self-regulated.  If there are no laws or no government, chaos would reign.  At this level of humanity, government & laws are needed as many people are like children who would be out of control if such things didn't exist. That is one thing we agree on.

                1. Onusonus profile image79
                  Onusonusposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Yes, government is very important...
                  https://pics.me.me/without-government-who-would-water-trees-in-the-rain-46609402.png

                2. Onusonus profile image79
                  Onusonusposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                  And don't forget those all important roads.
                  https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/160/097/b38.jpg

  25. Onusonus profile image79
    Onusonusposted 7 weeks ago

    https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/81554146_1288486584690707_7173446543758852096_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ohc=T_0oaKuwdOAAQl18Q9LN4JVzR2AnZh_HTwPAKO-sh6ujalU7k9hPFsWZw&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=c56f1d204dfe2a67ad0e1edc66822363&oe=5EA0665F

 
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