Who is responsible for the Orlando attack on American soil?
When will America wake up to the threat of ISIS and the attack on our homeland? Over 50 people have been killed. Will the White House finally recognize the real threat? And call it by its name? Extreme Islamic terrorist. Will the LGBT community stand up and condemn the radical Islamic groups that are targeting them because of their sexual orientation?
What should the US government respond to this declaration of war?
Who is responsible?
I assume you heard President Obama's statement on this attack. If you did you didn't hear him even mention "Extreme Islamic terrorist" did you? NO!
But what he did make a point to say is that anyone who opposes stopping people like this murderer from getting guns then they, those who support the second amendment I assume, are responsible. Do you know anyone who opposes stopping these terrorists or any murderers for that matter, from getting guns? I don't.
His exact words: "This massacre is a reminder of how easy it is for someone to get their hands on a weapon that lets them shoot people in a school, or in a house of worship, or in a movie theater or in a nightclub. And we have to decide if that’s the kind of country we want to be. To actively do nothing is a decision as well.”
I don't know what your take is on what he said but I think he made it very clear that anyone who opposes whatever gun controls HE wants (even though to date anything his party has proposed would not have stopped any of these atrocities from happening) is responsible for wanting this country "to be a place where it is easy for someone to get their hands on a weapon that lets them shoot people."
So to take it a step further. exactly what is it he believes would make America a place where it's not easy for "someone to get their hands on a weapon that lets them shoot people?" (does that sound like he believes the weapon, not the person is in control?..."a weapon that lets them shoot people" hmmmm has he just anthropomorphized weapons? Sounds like it. This is a very sick man).
Anyway, taking it further, the only thing that would make it not easy would be to repeal the 2nd amendment and ban all guns, because there are tons of laws already on the books and apparently, according to Obama, none of them have made it hard for someone to get a weapon (a weapon that, if you are to believe Obama, then controls it's owner to the extent it "lets" him shoot people! You Bad, Bad hunk of iron and wood).
Of course everyone knows, a car is easy to get. Has your car let you kill anyone lately? Watch out cause there are cars all over the country letting their drivers kill people every minute of every day. Bad, Bad automobiles. What are you going to do to decide if that’s the kind of country we want to be? Someone should ask Obama that question cause you know as Obama said, "to actively do nothing is a decision as well." (Like how does anyone actively do nothing? Sounds like a term some millennial living in his parents basement came up with).
Barack Obama, this is a very sick man.
No amount of gun control laws will stop terrorist or criminals from these shootings.
Obviously.But Obama says we can make it harder for"someone to get their hands on a weapon that lets them shoot people"What do u think he means by that?Isn't he blaming Orlando on America for not making it harder?He just lovesAmericadoesn't he.
It is clear to all thinking Americans that Obama's war on terrorism is a big failure. His policy of appeasement, leading from behind, and containment of ISIS is not working. His spying on all Americans instead of profiling is also not working.
You can't tame a rattlesnake and that is exactly what Obama has tried to do. It is a rattlesnake's nature to bite and given the opportunity that is what they will do.
Well said in so few words Jack, it is clear to all thinking Americans. But then it is also clear that when Obama has a better than 50% approval rating the majority of Americans are not "thinking Americans". Welcome to the Obama Zombie Apocalypse.
I stopped trusting those polls long ago. Obama's approval rating is as good as the phony 4.7% unemployment rate...
You can't win a war when you can't name the enemy. And blaming "extremists" lets him lump the Tea Party in with Muslim fundamentalists killing people.
OMG This morning my hammer just let me hit my thumb, bad hammer. Could Obama be right? inanimate things are controlling us? Hackers should know their computers might be letting them break the law, bad computers. Is he a sick man?
I'm glad the president waited. More information is now out that the shooter may have been closeted gay. Possible motivation for ISIS pledge was to trick those easy to be fooled into making him a martyr for a cause instead of troubled identify issues.
KS,U make no sense at all.His father was a Taliban sympathizer, ISIS has already claimed responsibility,closeted gay people (?really?in gay bars,even his wife knew he was gay)don't commit mass murder because of of troubled identify issues.
The shooter is responsible, ultimately. The initial impulse as far as I can see stemmed from a mix of hate and ISIS idealogy which ignited in him a need to exterminate gay people in a nightclub. A few days previous, according to his father, he had witnessed two gay men kissing in a restaurant and became extremely angry about this because his children were with him. This pushed him over the edge and he decided to buy an automatic weapon and go about his heinous crime.
The shooter was known to the FBI but not considered a real threat.
I've given answers before about the ease with which these assault weapons can be bought, by anyone. Assault weapons can kill many people in a few seconds and I can't for the life of me see how a member of the public needs such a weapon. that's something for the American people to work out for themselves.
As for the war against ISIS, it goes on in obvious form in Syria, Iraq and Africa. US/UK/EU Intelligence services are monitoring this group and others such as the Taliban in Pakistan and Afghanistan. It's nigh on impossible to legislate against a lone wolf acting on impulse - you can only increase security and vigilance in obvious places as deterrent.
Here in the UK we've become much tougher on Islamic propaganda and speech - imams can no longer use inciteful speech for example. Moderate Muslims are being encouraged to speak out against extreme violence perpetrated in the name of Islam. There has to be a balance, a tolerant balance, reached somehow or the killings won't stop.
Well it wasn't the gun that was responsible, it was the nut behind the gun. In reality, a bomb would have probably killed everyone in the room.
But as I understand it, those who follow Islam and believe in Sharia Law have no problem killing homosexuals. But I forget that Islam is the religion of Peace and Love.
Order of responsibility -
3. NSA (for failing to detect the threat)
4. Obama Administration (for failing to stop ISIS back in 2014)
5. Family and friends of shooter for failing to report him and put him is hospital for insane.
ISIS kills homosexuals by throwing them off roofs, Saudis and Iranians by hanging, this was just outside of the West's legal system - but we risk it becoming common if we cede authority to Shariah law.
Everyone is responsible - especially those who are pointing fingers and not taking responsiblity for themselves; such as voting for George Jr. who originated the most recent 'hate' for Americans when Saddam didn't have any WMD - among other things...
That is ridiculous. If we are all responsible then no one is responsible. Don't you see the fallacy of your statement?
Yet if the shooter was a closet homosexual, as it has been thought in media - the promotion of LGBT as perverts/sinners by others wld have fed his self-loathing + hatred of gays. Which is not a solely Islam or even religious stance. Bears thinkin on.
He was another Islamic dog that didn't get leashed up in time. He was on the FBI watch list as well as his masque. Hillary told the FBI to stand down and not do their job and then Orlando happened.
FBI detected the threat, but their hands are tied by this Administration, which adamantly protects the Muslim community from interference or prosecution regardless of how obvious their intent and sypmathies may be.
MENTAL HEALTH & STILL NO one is talking about how America has very little Mental health - its easier to get pot, herion or crack then it is to see a shrink.......Mental Health - "Your thoughts become your words, your words become your actions"
The shooter is responsible.
I can see people trying to make this into an anti-Islam type of thing but that's not the case.
EXTREMISTS of ANY RELIGION are dangerous. Regardless of religion. However these extremists are NOT credible examples of those religions to which they belong.
As a member of the LGBT community, I refuse to condemn mainstream Christians or Muslims based on the actions of their extremists. Sure, right now, the shooter seems to have ties to extremist Islamic groups, but that does not make all those of that faith culpable. Sure, it's not the Christians doing it this time, but the extremists of the Christians (WBC, Pat Robertson, etc ) are CELEBRATING the deaths of 50 gay people - which is almost if not equally abhorrent. Sure it's not them causing the violence this time, but they are celebrating it and encouraging it (as are those who encourage violence against trans people who need to pee)
But do I judge all Muslims or all Christians on the acts of a few? No. I judge you on your own merits, your own actions, your own comments. Not those of people who may believe in the same God/s as you.
So who is at fault? The shooter. And possibly the fact that a man who is known to be violent (history of domestic violence), and unstable, let alone extremist ties, had access to assault weapons....
No one is claiming the whole of Islam is at fault. However, if we don't identify the problem by name, how are we to defeat it? Calling it an "act of terror" says nothing about who is behind this. I hope you see the distinction.
So, r u going to call out the Christian pastors who are celebrating the fact 50 gay people were killed? Call out extremists, Islam + Christianity both - don't divide. He made his choice - he hated us 4 religious reasons, but he Is at fault.
There are no Christian pastors who are celebrating the fact 50gay people died.Why do you defend your self with lies, when you use a straw man to argue against that demonstrates immediately you cannot admit you're wrong or be reasoned with .
Taze - Pastor Steven Anderson, Pat Roberston, + WBC have all spoken/tweeted their joy. Which is why I called it out becus if u blame 1 faith, u can't ignore the celebration of the other for the act commitd. Extremists of any faith r dangerous.
Jacqui, but some are more dangerous than others... Don't make the moral equivalence argument.
Jacqui, again you LIE. Give me one link that demonstrates what you just said, cite a source we can read, in context, of any Christian tweeting or otherwise saying what you allege...you can't or you would have already- you lie unashamedly.
Here is the link Jacqui was mentioning of Pastor Anderson saying the victim should have been killed by righteous gov't & more
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat … -50-less-p
Pastor Steven Anderson is a false Christian not worthy of the name pastor.His teachings are not supported by true Christianity.Citing him is worse than saying Bin Laden speaks for all Islam.His views are not Christian.What did Pat Robertson say?
Why is it worse? Because it affects you personally?
http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/13/westboro- … t-5942134/
Pat's quote hs bn found 2 b false 2day.
neva said example of all Xtians.
Pleas refrain from slander - I Neva lied.
J you did lie,&are a liar.about Pat Robertson http://www.snopes.com/pat-robertson-orlando-shooting/ U &James are equating a couple crazies parading as Christians with an Islamic ideology of millions of people with whom we are at war.INSANE
Just bcus u don't like what Steven Anderson says doesn't make him not a Xtian. Pat I admited I had found was false the day I fnd out. U go @ me 4 'generalising' which if U read my answr I NEVA did, yet generalise all Muslims in the actions of a few.
I never said he wasn't a christian because I don't like him.So besides lying you now put words in my mouth.U r pathetic.The Bible is the measure of Christianity anyone who knows the Bible knows he's a false teacher as is the Westboro cult.
Taze - u say I can't be reasoned with, yet you've not proven I lied. Your link to snopes came AFTER I said Pats quote had been found false.
Both Steven and WBC claim biblical backing. Never said they were examples of all Christians. Quit slanderin
On the 14th you posted Pat Robertson tweeted without ever researching it, Snopes was posted on the 12th before you slandered Robertson.Keep on lying,you make my case.What you posted was a known falsehood immediately not just by snopes
When I heard it originally + posted it, I genuinely believed 2 b true. as SOON As I found it wasn't - I admited it,Neva lied.
Pls tell me where I say all Christians r like Steve + WBC tho - cus u accuse me falsely AGAIN.
Cn we gt bk 2 topic of ?.
@ Don't Taze me: please don't put words in my mouth. You said, "U &James are equating a couple crazies parading as Christians." I only pointed out and put a link supporting the statement about Pastor Anderson and no one else. So there is no "cou
James, you stuck your nose in our conversation.Why would you do that unless you had a fox in the hunt & instead of siding with the truth which was my side you chose to provide support for J, the liar, Anderson doesn't represent Christianity
This is a "discussion board" were all can discuss and add their two cents. As for your dismissing a Christian Pastor for being Christian- see link below
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/1 … an-muslim/
I didn't say u shouldn't post,what I pointed out was ur reason to jump in.See u two twist everything I say to mean something i never said,that's deceptive &that poll.has nothing to do with the discussion.No surprise either if u know Islam.
First off you said "our" discussion, which shows possession as if another cannot enter into it. Therefore there is no twisting of any words. Let's just let it go. This is tiresome.
James let this go. You made your point and proved it out with facts. If someone has ingrained ideas then all the facts in the world will not change them. Funny Tazed says you twist words &then makes unsubstantiated inferences on your posts.
Extremist Amish don't hurt anyone, and neither do radical Buddhists who strive literally never to hurt a fly. It is the extreme fundamentalist Muslims who are killing people, including secular Muslims.
Lots of people are responsible.
Those who think it's okay to sell a man who's on an FBI watchlist a gun.
Those who condemn homosexuality and the LGBT regardless of religious affiliation or lack thereof, for propelling the negativity and hurting the view of equality.
And yes, first and foremost, a radical religious nut.
It's funny that people moan about the LGBT standing up for themselves and having pride (lots of people irate over the LGBT pushing Pride Month on them) until it comes to Islamic terrorism, and now all of a sudden it's okay if they stand up for themselves. They're targeted for their sexual orientation every single day from multiple groups of people and they deserve to stand up for themselves and condemn ALL OF IT - not just when they're being shot at. It all contributes.
Yes, I agree but I am baffled by our FBI and NSA who has all these surveillances placed on the American public and yet, they were not able to prevent this attack and 13 other terrorist attacks on the homeland post 9/11. Why is that? What is wrong?
Aime,so you are for equality of sexual orientation? I suppose you feel pedophiles should have the same equality too?They are targeted"every single day",like homosexuality was once a crime their sexual preference still is.Equality,what say u?
I don't think I can respond in much seriousness to someone who compares homosexuality to pedophilia. But yes, I am for full equality of homosexuals and heterosexuals. Why the hell wouldn't I be?
Christians who say I don't want to make a wedding cake I find blasphemy is NOT anywhere close to Islam's homosexuality is a sin kill them for it. Equating the two is in itself an immoral comparison.
So it's okay to discriminate against a minority as long as you don't kill them? I'm not saying that all discrimation is equal, I'm saying it's all harmful and it all helps to encourage the extremists.
There are three types of Islamic Terrorists. There are the ones who have been recruited and directed by ISIS to carry out their will. There are the ISIS inspired terrorists that are radicalized by ISIS propaganda, and there are the ones that one day decide they are going to make a name for themselves and just start killing people in the name of ISIS.
That's why it is difficult for Obama to generalize and call them Extremist Islamic Terrorist. Just like in any ethnicity and religion, there are good and bad people, not all of Islam is bad or extremists. The ones who are bad have their own interpretation of the Koran, just like we have people who have their own interpretation of the bible.
The mid-east is divided into three main religious ethnic groups who all hate each other. ISIS is mainly Sunnis, but so are Saudi Arabians who we have military contracts with. Iran is mainly Shia who we are trying to get a nuclear deal with. And the Kurds are sitting on the oil rich land that is part of Syria and Iraq that everybody including Russia wants.
So as a nation, we are walking a tight rope in a three-way civil war, that we shouldn't even be a part of. And to make matters worse Russia and Turkey are in the mix as well.
You are making excuses for this administration. When the IRA was bombing civilians, we called them the Irish Republican Army. When the SLA was doing its terrorist bombs, we called it by name. Why the reluctance by Obama to call this the Islamic..?
Jack,cause he feels terrorists aren't responsible.Listen to what he says"guns LET someone shoot people".The guns(or avideo)are responsible for terrorism,crimes,not people.The guns control the shooter,we have to control the guns.A SICK MAN.
The gunman and anyone who aided him is responsible. I just hope that people are focused on the issue of identifying the individuals directly responsible and coming up with a comprehensive plan to prevent this in the future, and not using this as a way to play politics or scapegoat an entire group. The vast majority of U.S. mass murders and terrorist acts are committed by Americans. However, when Americans commit the acts we focus on gun manufacturers, psychiatrists who may have dealt with the gunman, school administrators and counselors who may have had the student prior. It seems like we always wish to cast the net wide to punish everyone or use the situation to create a political agenda.
The White House is well aware of the terrorist threat from ISIS, Al Queda, and similar groups. When Reagan was in office we had the Iran-Contra issue, Bush Sr we had Saddam, under Clinton we had the first World Trade Center Bombing attempt, under Bush Jr we had the World Trade Center Bombing of both Towers, under Obama we have this issue. Several leaders with different styles, political affiliations, military and educations backgrounds; along with various congresses and none were able to fully defend us either here or if not here protect Americans abroad. It is easy to Monday Morning QB and yell out 100% surefire solutions from behind our keyboards, however, if a president had the 100% solution then Reagan, Bush sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, or Obama would have implemented the change during their terms and with such support that no subsequent leader could reverse it. The world is too big, and the networks of terrorism are so vast that it would be almost impossible to shut down terrorism from outside sources short of an H bomb to kill the innocent along with the guilty. Even then, since the majority of terrorist attacks come from Americans we would still not stop most attacks. Columbine, V Tech, Sandy Hook, Oklahoma city, etc
Recognizing ISIS at a threat has already been done. Identifying the problem is only one step, stopping them is much more complicated than just saying ISIS is the problem. One does not need state the obvious to do something about it. It is the what to do that is important. Also, not specifically naming groups who aid in terrorist attacks has been the plan of White House Executives of both parties in the past. Not giving them as much attention helps to slow down the new recruits who think their name will live on in infamy as well as the group itself.
I disagree with your assessment of ISIS. You seem to think all adminstrations are equal in dealing with external threats. That is simply not true. Why have elections? The fact is ISIS could have been stopped 2 years ago and Obama choose to contain..
I do not think all administrations are equal and never said that. In fact I went out of my way to say the leaders had "different" styles, political affiliations, military and educations backgrounds. However, none were able to fully stop terrorism
Why were none able to stop it? Because no administration has the backbone to ignore political correctness and do what needs to be done. We stopped Japanese terrorism to end WW2, It took the H-bomb which wasn't considered PC even then.
Actually, read up on the new thesis on why Japan gave up. They were actually going to continue fighting after the H Bomb, until they learn the Soviets were going to invade afterwards. The surrender with agreement for PC protection ended the war.
Yeah they were going to continue after the first H bomb,the second 1 was the convincer, not the Russians.What propaganda have you been reading? Give me a link.To say they were scared of the Russians & not the H-bomb is freaking ludicrous
No propoganda, remember when the war ended what occurred. The Soviet influence controlled Eastern Europe and historians saw they had eyes on Japan. Bombs don't end wars, treaties and the victors negotiating the spoils do.
Tell me please how Obama could have stopped ISIS 2 years ago?
No treaty ended the war, it was ended by Japan's unconditional surrender because of the H-bomb,not just any bombs.
Annie,u need to pay attention,all BO's generals &advisers have said if a residual force was left in IRAQ,there be no ISIS.
Ok, Guess I will ignore the Treaty of San Francisco also know as the Treaty of Peace with Japan and the Paris Peace Treaties after WWII, as well as the tribunals which took a while which led to the treaties.
Don't Taze Me, I see you got your history out of a Cracker Jack box. Fact: Japan's infrastructure and supply line were already destroyed. Truman is as much a war criminal as any Nazi. Now give us another stupid uneducated opinion Archie.
James,when Ron is on your side it guarantees u wrong.Just a day after the bombing of Nagasaki,Japan submits its acquiescence to the Potsdam Conference terms of unconditional surrender,Truman orders a halt to atomic bombing.Treaty came later
The Potsdam occurred on July 26 1945, with the Allies dictating to Japan terms of surrender. Japan countered with Mokusatsu (or to kill with silence) i.e. ignored it. Japan never agreed to this and so was later bombed. You have your dates mixed up.
DTM, It's not a matter of being on someone's side. It's a matter of comprehending the historical record from various perspectives and then reaching an informed conclusion. While you're unemployed and hanging out at the trailer park, do some research.
Wrong again John,it happened exactly as I said,I cut and pasted that in from the historical source.You think they just said OK let's end this war,gimme a treaty?Wars end when the enemy is defeated.&losers,like Ron,know nothingbut2name call.
James and Ronnie you will never convince someone who has their mind made up. Fighting continued after the bombing and "so called surrender" until the Treaty of San Fan. You are right. Japan and Russia fought til Soviet-Japan Declaration of 56
So you are saying the bombs had nothing to do with ending the war, Japan never surrendered unconditionally on August 10,1945 as I stated http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist … -surrender
Taze: No one is saying that any act of the war does not help lead to its end. The other posters are just being more accurate than you by not stopping at 8.10.45 but incorporating all actions of the war. Really, at this point y'all should let it go.
This only sheds new light on the issue at hand. The average American lives in a fantasy land of good guys and bad guys. They don't even know their own history. Yet they will not hesitate to throw gasoline on a fire.
Kordell,maybe u should read Jame's comments before saying "no one is sayin".James said just that.U r a little late to the game.Read his comments, you agree with his take?I quote"The surrender with agreement for PC protection ended the war"?
What has the H-bomb to do with mass shootings?
Mass shootings could have stopped ages ago. Simple scrap the second amendment and the number of mass shootings will drop significantly.
P,another liberal jumping in without reading what triggered this comment string.As usual ur comment tells more about u than what u say.Like Ron,bigoted against people living in trailers,when native Americans(like him)rknown4livingin tparks!
Still no sign of intelligent life. And what crystal ball did you use to falsely determine that I am a Native American ... Einstein. Furthermore, I did not imply a negative toward trailer parks. That is your misinterpretation. Read and learn.
Native?I seem to remember you making that claim in hate comments you've made railing on America for what they did to your ancestors.You personally attacked me & implied I was trailer trash.Even u can't be so stupid as to pretend you didn't.
the h-bomb and its politics is something completely different then a mass shooting in a gay and lesbian club.
My ancestors were not Native Americans.That would not be possible. I implied nothing. I cannot account for your low self-esteem. Over 50 were murdered and you want to nuke the entire Muslim world. How will you feel when the tally is 100 million?
Where did I say nuke the Muslim world?Yeah ur not on drugs.U have to make up what I said to pretend u win?I'm having a civil disagreement in comments when a couple liberals appear with nothing but personal attacks.THAT'S what a troll does
Civil Disagreement?? You said james got his history from a cracker jack box; called Ron a loser; refer to someone as typical liberal as if it were a pejorative in just this thread. You are overly emotional and prone to name calling yourself
Remember your comment on my post: "Wow, and I thought radical Islamists were off their rocker but I think your answer makes them look almost sane." But now you cry foul. Reminds me of Donald Trump throwing stones and then whining on the return.
Thanks Kordell for demonstrating how you guys lie.Ron made the crakerjack comment, & I was having a civil discussion until you guys showed up with personal attacks exactly like that.For what?Everything I said was fact from beginning..
"We stopped Japanese terrorism....H-bomb"
With this sentence Taze you implied to do the same with Isis terrorism.
I reacted on this with saying that the H-bomb is not the same as Mass-shootings. The Japs where no terrorists but it was war.
Pu take sentence out of context.I answered James Q"Why were none able to stop it?cause no administration has the backbone to ignore pc & do what needs to be done."then gave example where what needed to be done was,that's all,u read into it.
Taze, the problem arises when you said "we stopped Japanese terrorism" with an H-Bomb. There was no such thing as Japanese Terrorism.
James talks about the H-Bomb to illustrate that it's impossible to eliminate terrorism because it's global,
P was't what our discourse was about,what goes in ur head is not=to what's comin out & what does that have to do with the FACT I never said to use the"bomb" I said no 1 has the backbone 2 do what needs be done which doesn't just mean nukes.
DTMB, Regardless, your solution to the problem is more killing. World government's have been killing since before Adam and Steve. Precious Word: Killing don't work Archie. If so, then why still no peace?
Oh so now u switch from accusing me of something I never said to gee don't kill anyone?BTW yeah I said "Wow..."a true criticism of ur answer,no 1 commented on your answer but me because it was so ludicrous.That's what drugs do to ur brain.
Fundamentalist Muslims, just as ISIS throws homosexuals off roofs and Saudi Arabia and Iran hang them after formal hearings.
The Orlando shooter was following beliefs per fundamentalist Islam AND the teachings of his faith from his religious leader.
'Gays must die,' says Muslim speaker at Orlando mosque
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2016/06/gays-must-di … eCgXXIk.99
Yes, the shooter is responsible (of course), but its hard to deny that Islamic teachings had a lot to do with it. I don't see nearly as many extremists of other religious perpetrating acts like these as much as muslims do, on a worldwide scale.
Yes, there are extremists in every religion, however, there's a clear difference here. A huge number of muslims do not condemn these attacks , some actualy comemorate them (the shooter's father actualy published a video saying "Allah will punish the homosexuals" not too long after the shooting). The Muslim community should be more energetic in rejecting this kind of behavior, and yet this doesn't happen.
When a doctrine is toxic to civilization, its time to start looking at it with other eyes.
I've been at several vigils with Muslim people attending, and Muslim communities across the globe have condemned it. Where is your source? And how can you say no other religion attacks LGBT people when hundreds have been hurt by Christians this year
All the power to the ones that condemn this, but I was talking on a global scale. Ex: Al'Azhar university refused to reject ISIS as a group that is against Muslim doctrine, essentialy saying that what ISIS done is condoned under muslim law.
Well, to put everything into a nutshell, our government, the establishment, the illuminati, call it what you will, let these invaders in to create civil war. The Lord said, " these invaders were let in and they will release gases in NYC" Leave that city!" The Lord also said, " The next war our country has will be radioactive biological". That's where our country is headed, Christians need to be looking for the land of Goshen, which is a place of protection and provision. God is still going to do a great work in His people, people that have been on the back burners, will stand up and do the works of the Lord. All the unknowing and unbelieving will be astonished. It's going to be good. The Lord told me in times past, "It's going to knock your socks off." He is so good! Trust Him today.
Once the shooter had been on a U.S. Government list as a questionable character, the shooter's actions became the responsibility of the Government.
U.S. Government is responsible.
Not the whole government. Just the ones (mostly Republicans) who opposed a bill that would have denied weapons to suspected terrorists because that's what the NRA wanted?
Joan, the shooter was already on their list, he was interviewed 3 times by the FBI, he passed all the checks to obtain a gun legally nothing Republicans could have done prior to this would have stopped him, he wasn't on the no fly list,
We are responsible for this, we created it when we forgot to teach respect for all.If Sharia law lets them believe it is fine to kill another human being, then, if this is what they teach them Sharia law needs to go. WE ALL NEED TO stand up and let the world know we do not kill any person because they are gay. We should be protecting all the people , it is time we stand up and become one country and one people. I have been around a while, so it makes me said to see what has happened to this country. It use to be wonderful and I wish everyone could expirence this again.
The problem here is that there is more than one bully in the school yard. The biggest bully (that being the U.S. government and it's allies), is seeking world domination through a "New World Order". Many of these tragic events are staged events designed to further the governments hidden agenda, with "ISIS" "AL QAEDA" etc, simply being functionaries of the U.S. government. If anyone wants to stop terrorism, the place to start is in Washington D.C..
Anyone who has studied U.S. History ( the real version , not the Eurocentric revisionist version} will understand that terrorism has been part and parcel of the European Invasion of this continent since the very beginning. Anyone who might suggest that many world governments have used terrorist tactics in the past is missing the point. As I initially stated, there is more than one bully in the school yard. Unless the primary source of violence and unrest is targeted and neutralized, any defensive action against the Islamic world, or the imaginary Islamic terrorist groups, will be yet another grand, and expensive,exercise in futility.
The U.S. Constitution looks good on paper, perhaps even better on parchment, but just like religion, it's primary purpose is pacification. "We the People", is nothing more than another well designed opiate for the masses. This is why the American people will never defeat terrorism, because in order to do so, they would have to accept that the last 250 years have been nothing but a lie. Who among you are willing to face the fact that every generation of white, working class citizens since George Washington have been pawns in a bloody game of chess; a terrible contest designed to enrich and empower a global ruling elite? Who has the pluck to step away from the goat herd and challenge the "Good Shepherd" whose benevolence only leads to the slaughterhouse? Who has the wisdom to understand that the capitalist ruling class, and their "New World Order", must go the way of George Armstrong Custer? Meet the Real Slim Shady, the second cousin to the Real McCoy.
Wow, and I thought radical Islamists were off their rocker but I think your answer makes them look almost sane.
Apparently it is beyond your grasp to make an intelligent reply, and so you resort to making childish insults. The Wizard of Oz was just a movie. Sorry 'bout that! You'll have to make do with what you've got.
Obviously you can't tell the difference between an intelligent reply &childish insults but that is to be expected from someone who thinks"ISIS" "AL QAEDA" etc, (etc.?) are functionaries of the US government.Voices in your head tell u this?
Still no sign of intelligent life. I suppose you also believe that Osama Bin Laden was killed as televised. Just curious. Do you also believe in the tooth fairy?
Bin Laden's death was televised?maybe on the planet u are from but not on earth.SO besides "ISIS"&"AL QAEDA" who are your "etceteras"? Really what other "simply functionaries of the US.gov'nm't."r there or don't voices in your head.know?lol
You have a problem with reading comprehension. I never said his death was televised.The voices in my head tell me that you will insist on having the last derogatory word. Also, that it won't be long before you are pushing up daisies. Hafa Adai !
Hard to tell what you mean, u don't even know what you meant by "etc."? Sounds like you meant every terrorist group in the world of which there are hundreds. My, my, the US gov't has really been at work creating "functionaries", Bad USA.
http://hubpages.com/politics/Gun-laws-i … -should-go
This might reduce the death toll from lone crazy wolfs looking for a reason to hate kill....
Murder rates and armed robbery rates didn't go down after those laws were passed.
"Australian Institute of Criminology (AIC) reveals that the overall homicide rate in Australia has changed little over the past decade and actually dipped slightly after the 1997 gun buy-back program." - Snopes.com
I don't think it was the system or ISIS that was responsible. The shooter was gay, but couldn't come to terms with it, due to his faith and some underlying morals or fears (he had a wife). It was a combination of the shooter's inability to cope with his sexuality and the man's mental illness that turned that rage and frustration into a deadly shooter.
ISIS didn't have any part in this attack, I can say this with great certainty since the shooter only pledged allegiance over the phone to 911 in the middle of the shootout. This was a case of the man trying to come to terms with what he did, failing, and then trying to rationalize his decision and subconsciously hide the guilt of his actions.
What this attack is doing, however, is helping ISIS. Spreading fear is the principle tactic of radical groups and cults, by making us fear that these sort of attacks are spread and planned by ISIS is just the sort of fear they want.
Although the fact stands that ISIS and many other radical Islamic groups hate homosexuals, this was not the reason for the shooting, merely an excuse made by the shooter to fool himself into going through with a disgusting decision.
I may make a hub about this sort of situation soon, but for now, here's a CNN article that goes deeper into this.
Good commentary. By all means, write a hub on this topic. The story deserves to be told.
The Koran calls for death to homosexuals, the Orlando shooter obeyed, ISIS kills them, Iran hangs them, 30+ Muslim nations jail them. Yes, the problem is Islam.
I finally got around to making the hub looking at the shooter's life, problems and the consequences of his actions. Here it is, http://hubpages.com/politics/Orlando-and-Beyond.
The shooter is responsible. But it has also come to light that the shooter was secretly gay himself. He had gay dating apps on his phone and had visited that gay club several times. I think the shooter was conflicted with himself because he was gay and didn't want to be, especially since it is against his religion and all. So, I guess he was still targeting the LGBT community but not for the reasons we had previously thought. The news has also said that Omar was laughing while the plane hit the tower during 9/11. I think the government needs to enforce stricter gun laws and not let citizens purchase assualt rifles and semi-automatic weapons. They also need to have a better background check. I know that they think the background check we have in place right now is enough, but for example my aunt who has depression has a gun that she keeps with her a lot of the times. Although there is a highly unlikely chance she would hurt any innocent civilian, the fact of the matter is people who are mentally ill are still able to get guns, and that is a problem! I understand the 2nd amendment and people wanting to protect themselves, but we can't just let these school and mass killings go on. I don't want to consider it a victory that I didn't get shot while attending school.
Well, the shooter himself is primarily responsible. His wife, who knew he was planning something but did little to stop him, must take some responsibility. If anyone else knew, they are also to blame to some extent. ISIS, other Islamic extremist groups, and terrorists in general are partially responsible; it appears they weren't directly involved, but they influenced him. The NRA is not responsible, nor is the gun. Guns are not sentient beings. That being said, somebody on a terrorist watch list should not be able to easily and legally purchase a gun.
You are completely out of line and frankly being disrespectful. The shooter WAS an American. It was no "attack on American soil", this was an American man attacking LGBT people like myself because he despised us. There is no evidence at all that he had any ties to ISIL, as of yet, all he did was hail to them over a phone call. We didn't declare a war on the KKK when the Carolina shooter tried to "protect our nation" by killing nine people, and he wasn't charged with "terrorism". Over 200 anti-LGBT bills have been taken to congress this year alone, and the death toll of LGBT people- specifically, trans women of color, much like the victims, is through the roof with almost 20. You are out of line, your content is poorly researched, and frankly, you might as well have spit on their graves. Using this tragedy to further your own racism ideas about Islam is beyond gross. You call for us to call it by it's name, but when will you say Hate crime? When will you say "I'm homophobic, I wanted bathroom bills passed form people who claimed "trans people should be shot", I want an easy solution that requires no thought as to what's become of my country?" I'm surprised Hubpages even let such a low brow piece in. Shame on you.
-An angry queer man
I've found a lot of people who were anti-LGBT + Anti-Islam seem to want us LGBT to suddenly jump on the Anti-Islam bandwagon with them like they'd never been anti-LGBT in the 1st place. I agree with u that it's gross 2 use this tragedy in such a way
His mosque was teaching this stuff, so yes, his actions were per Islam
Hate imam preached executing gays at Orlando mosque before massacre
http://nypost.com/2016/06/14/hate-imam- … -massacre/
The White House does recognize the threat. Terrorists are constantly being monitored and attacks disrupted. The American military is at war with ISIS. So, it makes no sense to say the threat hasn't been recognized. The White House also wanted the ability to deny weapons to suspected terrorists in the US but Republicans voted against that bill. But this wasn't an ISIS directed attack. This was an attack by a gay man who was raised to hate who he was. As long as disturbed people can easily get access to military style weapons, we'll have mass shootings on a regular basis. Even the family of the inventor of the AR-15 said he never meant for that weapon to be available to civilians. It was designed for military use. Now it's being used to shoot up schools, movie theaters and night clubs.
The biggest thing that has changed between 9/11 and now is that we no longer give ourselves time for grief and healing, we no longer shelve our differences and unite in mourning. Everything, even the deaths of so many people, is now immediately categorized and shoved into a narrative. Who is responsible for the ideology behind the Orlando attack, the preparation for the attack, the means of perpetrating the attack, the inability to prevent the attack, the immediate response to the attack? These are all complex questions that cannot be answered within days of such a horrible thing happening. We need to stop making accusations and heaping blame in the heat of the moment.
The man with the gun and the plan is responsible. We as a nation that allows the gun laws to be so lax are also partially responsible. When so many American are killed every year by Americans, some this wrong. Our Congress who get paid over $100,000. yearly to make laws to keep Americans safe are in the pocket of the NRA and other big business. No wants to take guns from Americans, at least not guns that make sense for protection. Background checks are only scary to the people who have something to hide.
This man was an American by every sense of the word, born here, raised here, educated here. He didn't even know which of the extremist he wanted to belong to. Before people start blaming the Muslims for all theses murders, really count over the last twenty years how many gun mass murders have been Muslim led, and how many gun mass murders have been committed by American Caucasians.
We, as Americans, it seems are more prone to whining and blaming than voting the crooks out of office who perpetrate and support all these crimes.
There are macheted Muslim mobs killing atheists in Pakistan, Christians in Egypt, beheading police in the EU. Banning guns doesn't stop those whose ideology says to kill you from doing so.
He said nothing about banning guns. The problem is lax laws allowing mentally unstable people to buy assault rifles and shoot 100+ innocent victims in a matter of minutes.
I just posted a question pertaining to naming these acts radical islamic terrorism. Why do that? Why not just call it terrorism and leave it at that? Why piss off a religion that has like three billion members and make them choose a side? Why not just target the specific groups such as ISIS, Al Queda, the Taliban and go after them specifically? Yeah, let's get into a holy war, that's a great plan.
As for Orlando, who is responsible?
1. The Shooter
2. The FBI for missing a lot of clues
3. High Capacity Magazines
4. A complete lack of gun regulations (note, not asking for a ban, just more regulations and training to try and weed out lunatics like this guy)
Names do matter. Calling a group by it's name and defining them helps us defeat them. No one is accusing the whole religion of being extreme and radical, just some elements of them. We do this with Christian groups that are extreme as well. No one is calling for a holy war. No amount of gun regulations will stop these type of incidents. Crazies and terrorists do not follow the law and will get illegal weapons to commit their evil acts regardless.
The man who planned the most unkind act. Then, all of those who knew and did not stop him. After, the office who gave the killer a license to buy the weapons, or did he make it himself.? Finally, the business sales person who sold him the weapons, and the club for not having enough security. I am deeply sorry for the family who lost their love ones. That their souls may rest in peace.
Ultimately it was the man that committed the crime. Would gun stronger gun controls e responsible? Not sure that this man would not have used another weapon such as a bomb. Would it hurt to make stronger gun control laws when it comes to assault type guns, couldn't hurt. However, in my opinion, I have studied he Muslin religion, and I am acquainted with the Sharia aspect of the religion which is an ideology that the Islamic terrorist live by, and are fighting to promote across the world. Sharia has absolutely no tolerance for LGBT human beings. Did this terrorist in Orlando choose to kill homosexuals? It certainly appears he did. However, he may have been just out to kill Christians? His father was known to practice Sharia, and had many youtube posts on its propaganda. So, was this form of religion (Sharia) responsible for the crime against Americans in Orlando? I note that many believe it was a hate crime due to the terrorist being an American. At any rate the crime was born out of hate. However, this man pledged his alliance to ISIS while committing the crime. So, I for one will believe he committed this crime due to his religions, and his feeling that he was martyring himself for his religion. I don't blame the Muslim religion for this crime, I blame the ideology of Sharia ultimately for the crime.
The FBI investigated Mateen and one of Mateen's close friend and thus far found no evidence of any connection to any terrorist organization.
Mateen's background check revealed that he caused trouble at school when he was very young.
Having said that; I don't know of any appropriate response to this act. The terrorist is dead.
However, This act of terrorism along with the Boston marathon attack reveals some problems with the "See something, say something" slogan. Obviously, the people standing near the explosive package at the finish line did not view that package as anything suspicious.
Many suitcases and packages are left unreported in airports. How many times do we see a shoulder bag or suitcase in an airport and not pay any attention to it?
The question is: "If no terrorist threat exists, how would the local police respond to the phone call?" How many false alarms would be reported to the police?
I have no answers. I have questions; Many questions.
Everyone is responsible. We have all participated in whatever this world has become. Everyone has to take responsibility. It is that simple.
"what the world has become"?You think this incident is what the world has become?If everyone has participated in what the world has become,this incident, I suppose everyone who ever lived is responsible?Tell me how have you participated?
By blaming society, you deny the individuals who acted responsibility while indirectly blaming the victims and totally uninvolved. And that is immoral. It is like blaming the battered wife for triggering him instead of the man for beating her.
This incident is not new. The world has been violent since the fall. If not one sort of violence, then another. Individuals in incidents like this one are responsible for their actions. There is a bigger picture, but I am not responsible for this.
Not an easy question.
Simply put, the shooter.
But hey did he do it? And who sold him the assaut rifle?
In general I would say, assault rifles and big guns shouldn't be sold to price persons only under strict conditions.
Secondly why do people hate gays and lesbians?
Why is there so much frustration and hate among people. You can see the result of Trumps succes because of this frustration living in the society.
Why do kids go to school and murder there fellow class mates?
ISIS is a different case. Nothing to do with the shooter. It's just a popular thing ar the moment. By any means if the US had not invaded Iraq, 9/11 and the ISIS would not have happened.
By naming ISIS while doing a terrible act doesn't make ISIS responsible. I can shout Thump and kill people, doesn't make Trump responsible.
The question off responsibility is not that easy if you think about it.
But for a judge it's simple, the shooter shot people dead, plain and simple.
The reasons, and why is a different thing.
You are stating something that the government WANTS Americans to think. That's why they feed this type of things on the news, but it is all based on illusions so that the U.S government can continue waging the war it HAS already been waging for years now in countries where there is radical Islam groups. And actually U.S imperialism with its wars waged to increase its empires is precisely what gave rise to Islamic fundamentalism. I don't agree with both of these outmodes. But the U.S one has been the LONGEST and most dangerous out of the two.
They are BOTH terrorists... and just the way that groups like ISIS tries to brainwash some islams to see us as their enemy, the U.S government also tries to make sure that Americans think that our enemy is the middle east and other countries (there is the war on drugs in latin america as another example, but also based on illusions). I don't agree with Islamic fundamentalists, but I also don't think the U.S should be waging war on people who live in different soils than our own. The U.S was founded on genocide & slavery... and it has continued, since then, to do this type of work... in horrible ways you might never imagine...
You should start looking into more left/progressive news media... but I'm coming from a revolutionary perspective... and radical means getting to the root cause of the problem, so I don't think islamic fundamentalism is radical- I think it exacerbates the problem. I think radical is when you implement solutions that really does prevent these antagonistic relationships from happening in the planet.
Feel free to look into the links I just posted.
http://revcom.us/a/396/the-two-outmoded … es-en.html
From the last link, the bottom of this article states, "they made the point: “You could say that the Islamic fundamentalist forces in the world would be largely dormant if it weren’t for what the U.S. and its allies have done and are doing in the world—but you cannot say the opposite.” There is profound truth captured in that statement."
http://revcom.us/a/416/bob-avakian-on-t … ds-en.html
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