How many people support this decision of the part of the restaurant owner?
Is this the same as a Christian baker denying to bake a cake for a gay couple?
Here is the story...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/commentary … ervatives/
I don't think this type of discrimination is the way to go.
Do you think this is the same as the Christian baker denying to bake a cake for a gay couple?
What religious conviction did the owner of the restaurant claim? Did they try and explain this to Sarah Sanders and those with her? Also, did you know the gay couple bought other items from the bakery and the baker offered to provide baked goods for the gay wedding? They just refused to bake a specialty wedding cake for a gay wedding. So, yeah, this is a bit different.
I don't think they are similar at all.
In the Christian baker case, he is standing up for his religious conviction which is a protected class just like race, and gender are protected...under the first Amendment and upheld by the Supreme Court.
In the Sarah Sanders case, she is not a protected class (being a political conservative). A private restaurant can deny service to anyone they choose. I just think she handled it with class and did not resort to the courts to make her case.
If a restaurant wants to insult part of their customer base, they have a right to do so. They also suffer the consequences of other customers choosing to stay away.
It is called the free market and it works every time. We don't always need the law or the courts to settle these differences.
Well sexual orientation is also a protected class in Colorado where the bakery is, which is why the case went to court.
But as I mentioned to Readmikenow, I'm a bit unclear on this. If the owner had said her conscience as a Christian, is what prevented her from serving Sanders, would you be supportive of her actions?
Just to clarify my position. I have no problem with the restaurant not wanting to serve Sarah for whatever reason. It is not a case for a court to decide.
It says more about the owner of the restaurant than about anything else. It is clear she is a Trump hater.
The owner is willing to lose half of her customers by coming out so to speak.
I disagree with the owner’s position but she is an adult and free to express her point of view...
And suffer the financial consequences...
She is taking politics to a new level. If she choose to go down this road, where does it end? Will she disown her kids or end her friendship with people she disagree with politically?
Thanks for clarifying. While I understand the strength of feeling relating to the harm being caused by the current administration, I agree this type of action is not helpful.
But I think the same could be said of refusing to serve someone because of their color, sexual orientation etc. That takes civic life to a new level, which leads to very dangerous places.
If it were pointed out to me in a person's holy book that serving me would go against their religious beliefs, I would leave.
Do you think people should be allowed to refuse service only for religious reasons, or should they be allowed to refuse service for any reason they choose?
The law is pretty clear, a business owner can refuse service for any reason. Unless, you are part of a "protected" class. t the national level, protected classes include:
Race or color
National origin or citizenship status
Religion or creed
Disability, pregnancy, or genetic information
Some states, like California, have more protected classes than the federal baseline. In addition to the above factors, California adds:
Sexual orientation or gender identity
Medical condition, or AIDS/HIV status
Military or veteran status
Political affiliations or activities
Status as a victim of domestic violence, assault, or stalking
I think this entire episode is indicative of the hypocrisy of the left. Tolerant and inclusive is a concept they do no understand. Tolerant and inclusive only applies,in their minds, to people who agree with them. If you are white, black, native American, illegal immigrant, gay, etc...as long as you are a liberal that is ok. You are to be treated with respect. Slap a moderate or conservative label on a human and any amount of mistreatment is not only allowed, but celebrated.
Sarah Sanders being told to leave a restaurant is only the tip of the iceberg.
DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen was harassed while eating at a Mexican Restaurant.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/20/dhs-sec … urant.html
In New York, Trump supporter is thrown out of a bar because he wore a MAGA hat, and a New York judge felt the bar owner was legally able to do such a thing.
https://nypost.com/2018/04/25/judge-bar … upporters/
President Trump is succeeding and liberals aren't mature enough to handle it.
This is just more evidence of the mental and emotional weakness of all liberals. They are the purveyors of double standards and hypocrisy. As I've said before, and I've said this to my liberal relatives, if you're not ashamed to be a liberal...you should be.
It is Dr. Michael Savage who said liberalism is a mental disorder...how true and the funny thing is, it took a President Trump to drive this home...These liberals just cannot help themselves. TDS on steroids.
And all those millions of folks with the "mental disorder" are going to vote next November, shall we see if the inmates actually take over the asylum?
Yes, bring it on. We will see who is the immate and who is the sane people in November.
Jack, this is an illustration of the lack of intelligence possessed on the left. The only way November would be a blue wave is if they were able to change the Republican/Trump base of supporters. They've not only not decreased President Trump's support from his base, it has even increased. These events like Sarah Sanders and others only make President Trump stronger. The left HAS NO PLATFORM. Their allegation of "Vote for us because we hate President Trump" won't work. They won't deal with that reality, but it won't work. They have no issues. They are as clueless as ever when it comes to political strategy.
"Jack, this is an illustration of the lack of intelligence possessed on the left. The only way November would be a blue wave is if they were able to change the Republican/Trump base of supporters."
Wrong, Mike. Alabama now has a democratic senator because of energized minority groups and forces on the left. We, as a group, will stand in line for what ever it takes at the polls and in unprecedented numbers just like we did in 2016, to get the rightwingers OUT. Wild horses could not keep me away from the polls and my DUTY next November, that is for sure.
The Trump base is static and is not getting larger and an energized electorate on the Left is the beginning of the end for GOP dominance in Washington. So, stay tuned........ we will get the recession Mr. Fix-it will work us into and as Bill Maher says if that shocks people away from the far greater danger of having Trump and his ideological supporters remaining in office over the long term, it will be worth it.
I offer this, as much as I dislike Trump, I would not wish a recession on the American economy as innocents would be hurt.
Our platform is getting rid of TRump and right wing dominance, and that is a good start for me, IMHO. When we get back into power, we will know how to "Right the ship.
So, if I were you, I would not count my chickens until they are hatched.....
Really? Now for some facts from the Washington Times. Democrats are losing support. Again, liberals never seem to learn from their mistakes. I'm not worried. It's what got Donald Trump elected president.
Reports of a 'blue wave' in 2018 midterms are wildly exaggerated
“Support for Democrats is down among millennials, blacks, and so-called Walmart and NASCAR voters,” Zogby reports. Democrats have “lost more than 10 percent of support among voters aged 18-50, 14 percent among millennials aged 18-29” and more than 20 percent of support among black voters. Overall, support for Democrats has dropped from 44 percent to 40 percent over the course of several months."
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … re-wildly/
I wrote an article about just this topic over the weekend. You might want to check it out. It is called "I am Biased"
I am glad to hear you are not on the side of Bill Maher.
"When we get back into power, we will know how to "Right the ship."
LOL Highly doubtful - the goals of the liberal platform is to turn the ship into a socialist heaven, at least until the money runs out. Precious little about "righting the ship" - instead any listing will be amplified.
What does Dr. Michael Savage have to do with a business owners refusing to serve Sarah Sanders huckleberry, a pathetic and weak propagandist who betrays her country almost every day by lying to the American people profusely?
Savage is an idiot, Jack. Didn't I give you a link about him already? No wonder...…...
Yes, an idiot with a Phd, with numerous best selling books on the NYT list, with a successful nationwide talk show and have won the Radio Broastcasters hall of fame award...
What does Steven Colbert have? Or Anderson Cooper or Rachel Madow?
Sorry jackclee, but the world is littered with idiots who have PHDs or have little talk shows or who have won shiny little awards:
His degree is in ethnomedicine.
And is your belief in what he says related to his Ph.D. expertise? In other words, does having a Ph.D. add credence to his position on politics?
You believe a guy about politics because he has a Ph.D. in ethnomedicine but you don't believe a climate scientist who has a degree in climate science?
So if you have a Ph.D., presumably you're smart, right? What about 1,000 people with Ph.D.'s all agreeing on the same conclusion? Is that compelling?
Amazing how the stupidity just writes itself.
A Phd implies a strong intellect and a discipline for independent thinking. It is just a sign but no guarantee of success or being "right". I used his education background as one indicator of his intelligence. His excellent writing is also an indicator that he is not a man just reading his lines... he is a thinking man. Finally, his success in his 40 years plus in media is also a factor. He has been right more times than wrong on a slew of topics...if you follow his career. Having said that, he is not perfect and have made mistakes as have any person in the media and the lime light.
With regard to climate change, I disagree with your assertion that 90% of PHD agree with current climate change theory of AGW...The real number is much smaller and it has been discussed else where. The number of scientists that are skeptics are growing. It grows because the data does not agree with their models... It is as simple as that. Most scientists are not political or environmental extremists. they do their work and obtain grants and do their research and publish papers and attend conferences...
They are not Al Gore or Michael Mann who are pushing a global agenda and follow the IPCC of the UN. As time goes on, more question will arise as to why were are not seeing the dire results they claim. I implore you to go back and watch the award winning documentary "An Inconvenient Truth" and want you to identify how many predictions have failed to come to fruition.
Please come back to this forum and let me know your answer.
The impacts of climate change are factual. Anyone who believes otherwise doesn't understand the basic science (CO2 in the atmosphere makes the earth hotter) or is willfully (like an oil executive) not understanding it or understands it and has decided they don't like the outcome and has decided to lie and obfuscate.
Just because a model is wrong, doesn't mean that the entire science is wrong, and to (much like Readmikenow) discredit a massive data set that proves irrefutably that the earth is getting hotter is to engage in intellectual dishonesty or just downright dishonesty or to wallow in stupidity.
That conservatives are the party that rejects basic science, how can they be a party that anyone should want to follow?
And it's not 90%. It's more like 99% of climate scientists. Mike Savage probably disagrees, but as I said before, he's got a Ph.D. in ethnomedicine. He doesn't count.
That is the problem. The science may be correct and incomplete. Instead of studying it and fixing the climate models, the activists double down and attack people like me who are skeptics.
The climate is very complex and to reduce it to CO2 and the greenhouse effect is not sufficient to explain what we observe.
Time will tell if I am correct or 99% of the climate scientists.
By the way Jack, Antarctica's ice is melting at a greater rate than scientists expected due to the warmer seas under the ice. Many billions of tons of its ice has already melted and added to the sea levels. Of course, this is from scientists, and we know you only like the few who you agree with.
You are making my case. The fact that the climate models did not predict this just indicate they don't have a full picture of what is going on with our climate. As I said, the climate is very complex. I can point to many anomalies starting with the sun spots...
The CO2 level has increased steadily above 400 ppm over the last 20 years. Yet, we have not seen the predicted dire consequences in both global warming and amount of sea rise and the frequency and intensity of hurricanes. How come?
What are they missing?
You don't seem to get MY point, Jack. The change in climate is happening even faster than predicted as Scientists try to err on the side of least consequences, just for people like you.
So because the evidence does not match their predictions, you are claiming I am not understanding their theory? Where is the evidence things are getting worst in other areas? If the ice sheets around the globe are melting faster than they say, where is the corresponding rise in the ocean levels?
Are you just pointing to one small area of Antarctica to make a point?
As an engineer, I am constantly astonished by people like you who just takes everything you are feed as gospel. Think for yourself for a change...
If the globe is warming and it is due to human activity, why is it that we have not seen a Category 3 or higher storm in 10 years in the US mainland...?
Did you realize there are about 27 climate models and all of them disagree with each other and worse they are all predicting higher temperatures than what is measured...?
Finally, in about 3 to 5 years, the actual global temperature will fall out of the the 90% confidence level at the low mark. This will be huge.
Go visit Louisiana and parts of Florida where formerly dry land is now under water, Jack.
Yes but the question is are they meant to stay the same throughout our lifetime?
Don't forget, the bearing strait at one time was covered over with ice...
There are changes on our climate from natural causes. The ice age comes and go every 100,000 years or so...
The topography of the earth is constantly changing...
And humans are speeding up the natural sequence of nature as they pump more CO2 into the atmosphere, Jack. It's simple science you should know already.
But what is the solution? Do you want us to give up our fossil fuel so we can all go back to the stone age?
The proposals of the IPCC and the Paris Accord, even if adopted, will only reduce the temperature by a fractional amount.
The cost in $$$ and human suffering is greater.
The proposed solution is a pipe dream. It is cooked up by environmental extremists and global one world order...They want to tax the rich countries to help pay for the poorer nations.
It was never about climate change or global warming as it was formerly called.
Even the government supported green energy initiatives are not living up to their promise. Solar and wind power is only a small fraction of our total energy needs...
I say mitigation is a better way to go and we have the time to do it. The projections of climate disasters are no way near the 20 years - 30 years. If it is in 100-200 years, we have the time and the technological know how to mitigate any climate related changes (natural or man-made).
We have to face the problem now Jack, and Pruitt's doing away with regulations which protect, not only our air, but the water we need to keep clean for our families. The problem in Michigan will be more common in the future if this keeps up.
This is getting off topic but
You can check my article on the climate change debate with Doc_snow -
Why do you suppose they change “global warming” to “climate change” ? Could it be the globe is not warming as predicted?
Th left is so far gone they can't even see what is in front of them. NO JEWS! NO BLACKS!. NO CONSERVATIVES!. I think this says it all, and they call Trump Hitler, racists. So, far gone... This kind of intimidation is dangerous, Discrimination always leads to hate. The left has cornered hate, and seem to feel they need to save the country? So did Hitler.
In reality, there is no debate about climate change:
Actually Bozo Trump is losing like he always has and what else could Sarah Sanders expect except to be rebuked for her sins and role as propaganda minister for a weirdo madman like Donald? Mr. Trump has caused the Greatest point stock market crash in history, has segregated our NATO allies making the USA weak and vulnerable to attack by Russia and China, allowed Kim Jung Un to develop long range missile capability where nuclear warheads are pointed straight at the USA, has intentionally driven our farmers into bankruptcy, turned our close friends Mexico and Canada into our enemies, caused a tremendous spike in gas prices, constantly sabotages our healthcare system and is now committing more crimes of humanity by abusing innocent children: PURE Evil:
The preceding was just a taste of Mr. Trump's demonic insanity and those cult members who continue to aid and abet this mentally unstable Russian asset like Sarah, Kirstjen Nielsen and white nationalist Stephen Miller who believe it or not, STILL has access to our white house, should absolutely expect to be exiled from patriotic establishments: Should they be rewarded for their criminal actions?
So what else should the Trump's expect? To commit crimes unimpeded? Ivanka deals with criminal enterprises in Azerabaijan and according to reports, has her crappy merchandise made in China and elsewhere while Americans loose their jobs:
And now, she's silent while her orange faced daddy commits crimes against humanity by segregating innocent children from their families: I think Americans have had just about enough of this insanely corrupt family of grifters who are using our white house for personal gain::
As a dreaded “leftie” I disagree with the restaurant owner’s decision.
In my mind it’s exactly the same as the baker who refused to bake a cake for the gay couple. Refusing service based on political affiliation or religious beliefs... makes no difference. Either way you’re refusing to provide something for someone based on your personal feelings and that’s a slippery slope.
As a professional there are many times I have to grin and help someone who I don’t want to help. It is what it is. Do/say what you want on your own time but do your job when you’re supposed to be doing it.
Good for you for sticking to a higher principle and being consistent...we don't see that a lot.
I respect your take on things. If there were more "lefties" like you the world would be a better place. You always seem very rational and reasonable.
People are ignorant and stupid whether they are left or right. People need to know the facts instead of allowing others to inform them.
The democratic party HAS become " The gift that keeps on giving "
For the 2018 mid- terms and well beyond , There is no better motivator for the conservative party than for the leaders of the left to threaten violence against us , Why doesn't the left get it ?
Maybe it's really time conservatives became as active . Sarah , don't go to this restaurant again , you deserve better .
Latest Note; The Red Hen Restaurant has been closed for the week , maybe longer ? Creating more disturbances in town and at another restaurant that actually served Sarah's family ? The left really want's to start this ?
And it goes on !
New Federal Non-discrimination laws proposed ?
Restaurants must display either Red or Blue for all potential patrons .
Does anybody but me see how stupid this all is ?
Sarah Sanders to now get Secret service protection , Thanks liberals ,
Just drove the cost of Government up again !
You can't be serious, Horse, you are joking, right?
I can't imaging now color coding restaurants based on political affiliation.....
At the rate it's going it might be necessary just to keep the rioting to a minimum.
Of course I'm kidding ! But don't you see the utter craziness in how your party is acting in these dangerous settings ?
Scientists know exactly who and what causes climate change and it must be addressed ASAP: Just another reason why the world and our only habitable planet will rejoice in a mighty celebration when Mr. Trump is removed:
Out of curiosity, how do you propose everyone act? Do third world nations stop attempting to pull themselves out of the Third World? No. China signed the accord and it has just been revealed they are responsible for damage to the Ozone going on as we speak. Lot of good that did.
What,exactly, are you doing to minimize or erase your carbon footprint? Tell us. Demanding change without proof of personal change is just entitled bs. It rings fake.
The only thing that 'rings fake' is this:
You seem to have forgotten the question:
"What,exactly, are you doing to minimize or erase your carbon footprint?"
(hint: the answer isn't a cute meme)
Is this a question open to anyone? I did an entire university course on this! I would love to yell at you all about it!
Unless you’re just trying to bamboozle Jake in which case I’ll spare you I GUESS.
I've spent a small fortune insulating my home, replacing windows and doors and in other ways reducing heating/cooling costs. 100% of my appliances are energy star. It is a rare month I use more than 8 gallons of gas - as there is no public transportation that's pretty good.
My electric bill (total electric - no burning of fossil fuels) is less now than it was when I moved here 20 years ago. Again, not bad considering a steady increase in the cost of electricity.
I make a point of using power off-peak whenever possible, and while it's still energy use it means less generating capacity. I turn off the AC, or turn down the heat in winter, and turn off the hot water whenever I leave for more than a day. I've investigated the possibility of solar panels (too inefficient and too expensive in my area). I do not use cleaned, potable water for irrigation, and much of my lot gets no irrigation at all. We wash clothes only in cold water and only run the dishwasher when full. The thermostat is a 7 day computer type - it is set to save energy at times we expect to be gone.
I holler at the grandkids every time they leave the door open - my kids think I'm nuts over saving a few pennies. Spring and fall open doors and windows replace air conditioning. Thermostats are kept high in summer and low in winter. Most cooking is microwave or electric griddle - not much use of the energy hogging range.
When I built my house, years ago, I argued with the local government in order to position it on the property slightly askew. A northern exposure, the south side full of windows and I insulated it myself to ensure it was done right. Those small steps ensured my electric bill was one fourth that of other similar houses. I also installed ceiling fans in all rooms and stuck to Carter era suggestions for thermostat settings, refusing to turn the ac on unless the outside temperature rose above ninety. Being cheap by nature, those were good times.
Well, I'm not worried about global warming. So, I don't worry about my carbon imprint. Nature pours much more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere than people.
What is it with amuture environmentalists , Do they not realize that almost everything on earth has a carbon make up ? Who doesn't have a carbon footprint ?
I am truly amazed at how few people actually recycle today ! I've been doing it since 1983 , Here's one for you --I traveled last year with an RV , Americans don't even realize how little national forest and state forest campgrounds recycle , especially in the western USA .
Aww come on. Where's your sense of competitiveness? It's a fun challenge.
So, it would have been easier to say 'nothing' although that answer screams out from you response.
You do know trees and other plants turn co2 into oxygen, right Mike? And do you also know a great portion of the rain forests have been cleared by man in the last few generations. How can you believe this hasn't affected the rate of normal climate change?
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