Well this won't go over well for mid terms or 2020 elections , Or it will depending on how reality numb liberal voters really are ? Released this week by Dem. Minority Whip Steny Hoyer in all of his hypocritical pride.
"Make It In America Again ", ..................really ?
" Rebuild infrastructure , improve on education , promote entrepreneurial growth , bring back jobs from overseas , ..........." Sounds an awful lot like MAGA to me , ........ You ?
I could swear I just listened to a Trump Campaign trail speech !
I don't see this as a bad thing. Trump apparently hit on the things that mattered most to Americans. This guy could be saying 'yes, I agree but not on the way to address these problems'. If he shows a better action plan then what's wrong with it?
Whats wrong with it ? What's right with it is more my point........I mean seriously , Democrats spend three or four years obstructing Trumps every breath and then virtually copy his agenda as what ......A new direction?
Gee , why don't they just resign their chairs and say "We're with him from now on !" And people wonder why others despise the "progressive " party ?
I wouldn't bemoan a baby step in the right direction. Heck. It might catch on.
Maybe not leading from behind but finally seeing the light.
LTL , I would bet my house on the fact that it will not be the left that comes anywhere near the term " drain the swamp " for one . It will not be the left that establishes term limits for another , There is a reason that Trump's polls are rising , ever slowly , and that people are actually leaving the party of the left .
No , I once was a leftie , yes along time ago . But it shames me to think that the party that once called for an end to established politics in DC Now doubles down on the absolute growth and regulatory democratic /socialism to take over , In fact , all the left needs at this point is a uniformed leader to roll into DC with tanks and troops and declare a successful coup and not many on this side would be surprised.
Yes, surely Trump was the first person ever to want to build infrastructure, improve education, and bring back jobs from overseas.
Those all sound like pretty common (and vague) talking points for politicians across the spectrum.
Yet , you belong to a party that obstructs , and No I've never heard a liberal leader talk about reappropriating lost jobs , or improve the infrastructure seriously and then DO something about it ?
Entitlement programs ? Sure .
To answer your question: Here's just one quick example of Dems attempting to do something about infrastructure. Both parties block other parties' attempts to do productive things.
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/03/2 … Senate-GOP
"Republicans defeated a Democratic amendment to the proposed 2016 budget on Tuesday. It was aimed at kick-starting negotiations between the White House and Congress over a new multi-year program for funding highway, bridge and other infrastructure projects.:
Also, Obama ran on infrastructure, bringing jobs back from overseas. How succeful was he..probaly not much. Was he likely blocked by Republicans at every attempt...likely. However, Trump definitely did not come up with these campaign issues.
https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/ … -plan-work
You forget I lived in Sanders state and know all about his deficit neutral spending, And you actually have the nerve to equate democrats and fiscally responsibility to begin with ? I'm done with that article .
Obama's infrastructure spending was a welfare project for state highway crews in my experience , public spending on public jobs amounting to hardly any improvements . In other words , welfare for public workers .
Have faith horse. Those with a herd mentality will be herded along to support all things if their handlers decide to tell them that's what they are supposed to do.
I'm reminded of reading that Elizabeth Warren says today that a 50 %Taxation rate is better for our general revenue needs .
I answered the question presented and ahorse was absolutely, clearly wrong by any standard of truth.
If you supported Obama you part of the herd. If you support Trump you part of what....the infestation? He's the president that you follow hook, line and sinker...along with millions of other sheeple. Such silliness this is.
The difference is Trump is doing the work of the people that elected him , Obama told you what and when to think , pushed his OWO agenda and you had no choice but to swallow it hook line and sinker .
Obama was doing the work of those who elected him, me being one of them.
So ummmmm, he was actually doing nothing ?
That is what YOU say, Horse, that hardly makes it either credible or factual....
The sheeple are the ones who refuse to think for themselves and regurgitate the same rabid sounding hatred again and again. The sheeple are the ones who can't give credit when due. The sheeple are the ones too willfully blind to be unbiased when discussing politics. The sheeple are the ones who will not stand against Marxist behavior that demands conformity, is against freedom of speech and gives a free pass to any action...as long as Trump didn't make it.
I'm open to support any person from any party if it is in the best interest of the American people. Is Trump perfect? Hell no. Does he make mistakes? Certainly. But, if Trump walked on water the current sheeple would find something to complain about. Because they do not appear to be able to say anything or do anything other than negative statements about Trump.
I've always stood up for those I perceive as victims of bullying. I see many on the left right now as a mob of bullies. Lynch mobs starved for blood.
the bullies who also won't stand up against authoritarian approaches, and rabid reactionary right wing views and values. So, as I remind you, there is another side of this. And if "common ground" is to be discovered, that has to recognized and appreciated at the start.
Live to Learn is clearly trying to say she's a neutral bystander when it comes to Trump, and that's clearly not true.
Thanks for the reminder for me also. There likely is come common ground, but it's not going to start with Trump. Why does it have to start with Trump? I don't like Trump, and that's all that matters to Trump fans.
If they would step back, they may see I understand why Trump, I just despise Trump and think the reasoning for getting out of the American mess through Trump is entirely flawed and dangerous.
That has been my observation and it is troubling, as she wants us all to come together in the best interests of the nation as a whole. But, you can't do that if your clearly taking one side....
No more than America can have credibility in moderating talks between Israel and the Palestinian populace on territory issues, if America is clearly taking Israel's side on everything..
Good point. Kinda like "Come over here and meet me in the middle. I'll show you the way through my leader."
I do seriously think the MSM goes overboard with mandating PC behavior. I don't like Hillary Clinton. But, socially, why do we go from one extreme to the next? Because we see the PC thing is a little out of hand, we vote probably the most ill-tempered man possible to the highest office in the land. This is a man who gets endorsements from the likes of David Duke and Ted Nugent in addition to Putin
I understand there are other reasons for voting for the guy, but this is to make a point. All reason went out the window.
"Because we see the PC thing is a little out of hand, we vote probably the most ill-tempered man possible to the highest office in the land."
Do you really think that's the reason anyone voted for Trump? Because he isn't PC? You don't think it had anything to do with the shining example of morality and duty exhibited by his competitor?
Credence. No. We can take a side but, we also have to give room for rationale, reasonable and courteous exchange of ideas. You and I have shared those moments when we realize that,yes, we agree on the problem but see different avenues to the solution. But, bashing Trump for, it does appear at times, the fun of it....without conceding the obvious fact that it is done prior to real evidence and then attempting to vilify anyone who does as a 'Trump supporter' doesn't appear to be an attempt at reasonable discourse.
We had an impossible choice to make in that election. I will never regret not voting for Hillary. No matter the outcome. It would have been worse. So, I'm willing to give Trump the respect of being at the least, a better alternative.
I gathered that understanding. When you take a side you give up the idea of mediation or neutrality. I bash Trump when from my point of view he deserves criticism. It is just as partial or partisan not to point out Trump when he is in error, and supporting him in whatever he does, regardless, without criticism. I can take issue when others bash Obama as that is from my point of view, no less valid. Oftentimes, Trump is a target but with so much swirling around, he may well deserve to be, at least it is for the Left, and that is just as valid as the Right saying he never deserves criticism.
You have shared with me your view of Trump verses Clinton, but my view is just the opposite. I said the same thing about impolite discourse when the righties were ganging up on Clinton and Obama without substance, is it any different?
it is always going to come down to what side you are on. Civil and reasonable discourse is always to be found on the side you are on and not the other side. No blame to be passed around as it is human nature, but all the same we should be aware of the natural tendency toward bias this generates.
Just because we are on opposite poles on this issue does not mean that "my side" lacks reasonable, rational and courteous approaches to the positions that me or they may take in the exchanging of ideas.
First, let's look at where the discourse here started to go downhill, after ahorse enters the conversation, LivetoLearn responds with: "Have faith horse. Those with a herd mentality will be herded along to support all things if their handlers decide to tell them that's what they are supposed to do."
When you have a president who makes a habit of impolite discourse, and you experience so many conversations with those who mimic him, it gets old to be told, oh give Trump a chance. I gave him a chance. And, how I wish we could have elected the right individual to bring the country together rather than tear it apart. No, that sure wasn't Hillary either. But, Trump goes out of his way to sew discord among Americans.
Trump is an impolite oaf who deserves every criticism he gets. Many of his supporters behave in similar ways as they mimic him.. Remember the T-shirts, "We don't care about your feelings" "Annoy a Liberal Support Trump".. all the meanness exhibited during the campaign?
People who don't support Trump can dish it out also and maybe some Trump supporters are realizing this ..and I can take whatever anyone fires at me. I've been through it and I understand right from wrong, so I don't back down from passive aggressive movements and ideologies.
Furthermore, If having a civil discussion about Trump means stating maybe he isn't such bad guy, then no one is getting that from me. I can have civil discussions about policy, and admit that I may be wrong, but that's not what everyone wants to talk about now. It always comes back to Trump cause he makes himself the center of attention.
I saw the unfair negativity with Obama also. I've repeatedly said the right was horribly negative under Obama and that is why I think the left feels justified in upping the ante in order to be more negative. Clinton, not being POTUS, doesn't (and, unless earned, shouldn't) command the same respect as the office of the POTUS. It is the office being defiled. By some of his words, possibly. But only the ones in context and not manipulated.
That's the problem here. The constant manipulation of facts to the point that those who want to be fair trust little anymore and see the office as being defiled by others, more so than Trump. The times when the left goes bonkers over something he did is every minute of every day. Can any human being warrant that much negativity. I've never encountered one which leaves me suspicious on this one.
It's like the 'cash' word. Was it used at that moment? I didn't hear the tape but I read an article which illustrates the point. The writer says 'then he said cash'. Of course, he followed that with you couldn't hear him say that in the tape. Is that news or an attempt to sway opinion?
As to the 'civil and reasonable' discourse. That involves things such as honesty, a firm grasp on the term fair play. A mob, by definition, gathers because of preconceived notions with actions driven by emotion. Unfortunately, the advent of the internet allows the mob to wreak havoc 24-7 and allows those who we wouldn't give a moment at the podium full rights to fan the flames. Any idiot with an ax to grind can start up a 'news site' or post a video. Truth doesn't matter much anymore. How you'feel' about something is all the rage. Have we learned nothing from how WhatsApp caused the death by mob of innocent people?
The problem I see is that the left and right are insisting we take one of their sides and I have repeatedly expressed a fear of what both are doing to this country. I've repeatedly expressed how both have sought to polarize us. And, I do feel you play into their hands. But, I get it with you (whether I agree or not on the why).
You choose to align with the left. You and I would probably make a good team. You 'we must have this and that'. Me 'good plan cred. Now, how will we pay for it?' That is how Washington should function. Caring about the needs of the American people but taking care of those needs in a sustainable way which is fair to all Americans. Having a polarized left and right can never accomplish that.
L to L, I wouldn't say so much that this is retribution for the tawdry way the Right treated Obama during his administration. This man, Trump, we find troubling in his own right. We are not just picking on him. While I am not keen on Hillary Clinton, Trump and his behavior, if not his policies, defile the office. This, in my opinion, of course. Yes, we are very dissatisfied with Trump, but no more than the Right is of any and everyone of our advocates.
Yes, Trump has warranted that level of negativity at home and abroad, and it is unprecedented. This is not the first time that a Chief Executive has acquired a great deal of negativity; Lyndon Johnson during Vietnam and Richard Nixon in Watergate.
Yes, the internet is subject to information from all sources, but the truth can be found as part of a ferreting action, even if I can't be seen on the surface.
I am pessimistic about this situation and the ideological polarization of our times, which is also unprecedented. While you may think that I play into their hands, I see no reason not to believe that WE both play into their hands, just from different directions.
I align with the Left as it is more consistent with my values and experiences. In other words, there is more to it than just selecting the red pill or the blue.
I appreciate your candor and always can sit over a virtual cup of coffee and try to figure the source as to why conservatives and progressive viewpoints are so much contradictory to each other.
For example, it is not that Republicans are the fiscally responsible party, they run up deficits. The only difference is what is they want to spend to money on. I question their values as to what and where the available money in Washington is being spent. Cutting taxes without having any real chance politically of cutting areas of spending that are supported by the left is going nowhere. So we remain in a quandary? The GOP threatening to shut down the government when they don't get what they want? So, we continue to have a lot of area of contention. What has happened to negotiation and compromise, I would have to ask that of both sides? This, while I carefully evaluate how many instances and opportunities are missed for cooperation between the parties and which side remains the more obstinate.
All good points. All indicative of the partisan nature of our political system which has ground our country into this divisiveness. And,yes, I'm certain everyone wishes someone could divest Trump of his Twitter feed and make him like that talking dog on got talent where they could move his mouth while running a recording of a prepared and sanitized speech. It would makes things less messy.
How can the party that's in charge of almost every state and the federal government be the victims here? No worries, cause that's likely soon to end as Trump shows how much more of a clown he is each day.
I see the issues with the left. But, because I'm not a Trump fan, you've been unwilling to listen to my views on that. I can't be against Trump and against the extremist left wing that I think helped give rise to the man and the extremist right wing agenda? No I can't. I'm bullied because I don't stick to loving Trump and hating the left...poor me. LOL, I can play the victim role also.
Now ? They always have been . Liberals all know conservatives by definition are all about having smaller , less expensive , less intrusive , less restrictive government . There can be no denying that ...........which by elimination makes liberals the total admitted opposite of that . Want accountability for elevated activism , government growth , entitlement growth , expensive and expansive government , then they need to accept and take responsibility for that willingly and stop blaming conservatives for government waste , expansionism and along with these characteristics an incredible amount of increased costs of governing . And , the majority of bullying is by liberals for more government , more growth , more cost and they won't stop until they get it .
But I'm sure you are all for Trump's announcement of $12 billion in entitlements for a problem he caused. He places the tariffs on and takes cash from the American people to help the ones hurt the most by those tariffs. That sounds closer to authoritarian communism than socialism. But, please, educate me how these entitlements are great.
Lesson # one  For democratic brilliance wondering why no one listens to you anymore ; You have collectively fried your brains over every single obstruction cause , some worthy ,many unimportant , most absolutely made up out of total fantasia .
Now you wonder why you can't what ?
Convince people you are serious political conversationalists ?
Now you'd like to define Mediation and Neutrality ?
Try again .
It is the left that has suffered the most from nothing more than their own selective outrage . It is also self inflicted and know that while you spread your blame for all things" Resist ", 'Obstruct ", "TDS ", .............
"The constant manipulation of facts ................" When in reality the left has not only created an alternative media reality , they have constantly used it to obstruct , What I hear NOW in this desperation from the left is a plea for understanding , compromise, , bipartisanship and ...."can't we all just get along ....." ?
Sure , let's see the left first drop the fake media , let's see them stop mindless obstruction and phony outrage , politically correct message banning , let's see Google , Face-book , Twitter ,let's see all of the e-media stop conservative banning , message shadowing , It is totally disingenuous OF the left to speak of compromise and understanding while at the same time waging a guerilla war in the media , on the streets , on campuses .........and here .
News flash. This just in. Some on the left don't agree with our principals of presumption of innocence. We're all guilty, of something, until they choose to believe otherwise. That explains the Marxist behavior of the mobs.
If we could just educate on the concepts our country was founded on this whole business might get settled amicably.
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