DeSantis vs Trump

1. 83

   Stephen Tomkinsonposted 2 years ago

   It appears that an interesting clash between DeSantis and Trump for the Republican nomination might be on the horizon.
   Two very different styles. What might be the outcome? Which candidate would you prefer?

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      Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Mr. Trump has proven himself to be a divisive figure. He promoted fear, hate and lies.  The midterm results have provided the Republican Party a golden ticket to finally dump him. We are starting to see some finally reject him.  I don't think he can beat DeSantis but in true Trump fashion he will do everything to smear him. Mr Trump has already alluded to the fact he has "secrets"  on Mr DeSantis. It's going to get very ugly. It will be interesting to see if he will be able to withstand Mr Trump's attacks.
      Mr DeSantis has changed his public persona over the years. He is quite a chameleon. His current persona, in my opinion won't fly outside of Florida.  Currently, he does not appear to be a candidate who could govern for all.  He will have to abandon the culture war schtick and speak to real issues.  Mr DeSantis looks and feels like a manufactured package in my opinion. Mr Trump is a delusional liar. Neither would have my vote.  The Republican party has largely become radicalized. They are riddled with extremists.  The party needs a huge makeover.

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   2. 84

      Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      It is clear Trump is ready to start going after anyone he sees as a threat. In my view, his recent attack on Desantis was uncalled-for and divisive. Trump needs to step aside and let Desantis take up the gauntlet.
      
      At this point, it is clear the Republican party is split, and we are left with many splintered factions. A Trump base, that does at this point looked weakened, a segment that although we support Trump's agenda, no longer supports Trump, and a small segment that is "Cheney-like Republicans.
      
      If the party can't come together, the outcome is bleak.  It appears my party may just shoot themself in the foot to stand on divided principles.
      
      I support moving on from Trump and supporting Desantis. Ultimately he is very much on board with an America first agenda.  He is young, and I truely like how he attacks problems with good common sense.
      
      I appreciated Trump during his presidency, I felt he was a problem solver, and tried to keep his promises. However, his character was hard to live with, and it is time to move on.
      
      However, at this point, I feel I will vote Republican in 2024, no matter who is on the ticket, for many reasons...

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      Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I don't prefer either candidate as both are unacceptable for me. I relish in upcoming fights and controversy between the two, bringing down  a less than desirable Republican Party, generally.
      
      Trump's ego and temerity will not be denied or coddled, he will drag DeSantis through the mud. While committed Trumpers will never accept that Trump can be ultimately deposed as King maker. This is going to be great! I warn DeSantis to be prepared to "raise shields".
      
      But if I had to prefer one or the other, I would choose Trump for the same reason that Col. Hogan wanted to keep Col. Klink  in charge at Stalag 13 (Hogan's Heroes).
      
      
      Otherwise, I sit in the audience with popcorn watching the show.

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      1. 85

         GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Your analogy says you think  Trump would be harmless and controllable. That's how I see the Hogan/Klink relationship.
         
         GA

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         1. 71

            Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            You two are really dating yourselves.

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            1. 81

               Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

               I suppose so, it was a funny show check it out on the TV archives sometime..

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            2. 85

               GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

               Yep, we're oldies, but goodies.
               
               GA

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         2. 81

            Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            A very funny sitcom in its time.
            
            Hogan ran virtually an allies way station under the very noses of the German High command. And in one episode when Berlin was considering a replacement for Klink, Hogan went all out to show Klink as a guy on top of things. Klink's fragile ego, his stupidity and incompetence worked for the allies. It was a fortuitous situation that the Allies could not afford to lose.
            
            Any replacement from Berlin might in fact be competent and end Hogan's surreptitious activities.
            
            Trump is a useful idiot and from inside the Republican Party he would be the poison pill that will ultimately contribute to its dissolution.
            
            Trump on his own accord makes himself, with his ego and combativeness,  and the GOP all the more vulnerable. The controversies with his constantly stirring the pot from every perspective is to the advantage of Democrats. That suits me just fine.

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            1. 71

               Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

               Exactly.
               
               The DNC and its wealthy supporters will see this as well, it may have been in doubt, but for those who can see, it is clear now, he is one of the best things the Democrats have going for them.

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   4. 71

      Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      DeSantis should just put Trump on ignore and not even bother with 2024.
      
      Biden is doing wonderful things for the country.  The Infrastructure and Healthcare and Climate Bills will have the country rebounding in no time.
      
      Biden will have finished off Putin and Russia, so in addition to being the savior of the American economy he will be a wartime hero as well.
      
      Better to just let Trump have a second go at him, be soundly defeated, and America will have four more years of Biden.

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      1. 84

         Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

         I hope you are correct about Joe fixing the economy...
         
         I agree Desantis should ignore Trump, and keep the job he has. He is doing great in Florida.  It is obvious Trump will not back off and let another pick up the gauntlet of the America First movement. So Republicans will further splinter and be so divided they would have zero chance in 2024.
         
         Hey, the writing is on the wall,  we are moving quickly into John Kerry's "New World Order".
         
         I mean it should have been so obvious. Put a man that has been in Washington for 50 years, a guy that was so well known for doing what he was told. An uncle Joe as Obama called him. He was clearly the one that could be led around by an ice cream cone...

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         1. 71

            Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            We are at the stage where this gambit is pulled off, and the Dollar hegemony is restored, the American dominance (Western International Corporatism) is restored... or it all comes crashing down.
            
            Soon.
            
            It is increasingly more difficult to get an idea of how bad things are because the level of effort to cut off outside information and legitimate facts is increasing.  Pretty soon America will be like China and have a 'Great Firewall' that makes getting information as to what is going on in other parts of the world almost impossible.  You will only get state sponsored propaganda.

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            1. 84

               Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

               Unless, by chance, Trump is the one who pulls US toward sanity.
               He has the determination and the following to do it.
               He has endured SO much opposition ... and who else could?
               
               I would not be discouraged, all Trump supporters here.
               Please keep the faith.
               ... and do not give up.
               
               https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAzQLftyW18

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2. 83

   Stephen Tomkinsonposted 2 years ago

   It's long been clear that Democrat and Republican support is deeply divided on the best way to deal with the present crises. The discussion here shows that Republicans are also divided on what is best for their party.
   Will either Trump or DeSantis blink first and not put themselves forward for nomination in the interest of party unity?

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   1. 84

      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      De Santis cannot.
      Trump can.

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      Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Oh good lord absolutely not. This is going to be an epic, nasty battle between two narcissists with huge  egos. Mr Trump looks hell-bent on destroying the Republican Party.
      Republicans only hope is that Merrick Garland indicts him soon.

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      1. 84

         Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Don't worry, party unity is increasing as we watch the disloyalty of certain Republicans.
         Thanks for nothing Mc Connnell, Chaney and Romney.

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            Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            You're not going to have party unity as long as Mr Trump is around. But why strive toward party unity? Sounds like a cult.

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3. 83

   Stephen Tomkinsonposted 2 years ago

   Hi Kathryn. Why do you say that DeSantis can't?

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   1. 84

      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I meant neither of them will take themselves out of the race and what does it matter if they both run in the primary. The voters will choose.
      
      Party unity will take care of itself as the facts are realized. Wake up to the facts, we will.

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      1. 84

         Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

         The votes will be split, and we take the chance those who support Desantis will not reunite with the party and sit out the 2024 vote. The midterms should tell us one thing --- Trump's base is smaller, and we still have a great split between Americans in general. The midterms almost mimic the 2020 race in regard to voting patterns.
         
         In my view, we can't afford to feel we could win with Trump. We need to unite behind another candidate. We need to pull the party together. Desantis is pro - America first.  He could take our movement forward. We just would have a much better chance of winning.
         
         I will vote party no matter what, but I think many would sit out if Trump were our candidate. We now have two elections that indicate this might have already happened, 2020, and these midterms.

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         1. 59

            Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            I think the midterm elections were partially a referendum on Trumpism. Voters made it clear they don't want what the platform is pushing. Americans obviously don't want election deniers, conspiracy theorists or Nationwide abortion bans. Transgender issues, bullying and retaliating against corporations for their free speech don't rank high on America's priorities either. Parents probably went into their schools to actually talk to their teachers and administrators and realized that they weren't pedophiles pushing law school concepts to their kindergarteners. Americans don't put a priority on banning books.  Apparently most didn't buy into the great replacement theory either.   The fire and brimstone fear mongering was roundly rejected.
            I think the most interesting part was the Democratic wave in terms of governors, State legislatures, attorneys general and secretary's of state that were elected this midterm.
            I believe four or five states went completely blue from top to bottom in their government.  That says a lot about where the direction of the country is headed.
            
            In terms of Mr DeSantis though, he went around the country campaigning for many of the kooky candidates. He is linked to Trumpism and that's going to be difficult to overcome on the national stage.  It was Mr Trump who got the unpopular DeSantis elected in 2018. 
            
            Also, The house  third ranking republican, Elise Stefanik just declared Mr Trump to be the leader of the GOP.  Scary stuff.
            
            When is the GOP going to realize it's never going to win independent voters with Trumpism as their only platform. It's just not palatable.

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         2. 84

            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            You don't see that we are heading to the takeover by some dictator do you?
            Unless we see that we are being lead to chaos and anarchy, we will not realize we need someone who can fight for The Constitution and the flag and what it represents.
            
            It's not a matter of who we want.
            its a matter of who we need.

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            1. 84

               Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

               I do see the pending danger of a one-part system with a dictator. I think anyone can go back to day one of Biden's term, and I have made a good attempt here on HP to point out not only his past but every disastrous thing he has done now for two years. My threads got little play. This should tell you something. Here at HP, some have dwelled on the past, all threads ultimately turned into "ya better hate Trump". Most did not take time to comment on Biden's mistakes, his mistruths, and his cognitive
               problems. This should tell you something ---  My thought tells me that the media has kept a good segment of Americans in a circle of "Hate Trump"...  and in my view, the midterms were so telling.  We have a society that clearly has been captured by the media, to the extent, they will live through inflation, an open border, crime, and so much more --- and ignore it all due to per hate of one man.
               
               So you ask " do I  we are heading to the takeover by some dictator do you?"  Oh yes, Kathryn... Oh yes. But I also must ask you ---  How many of us are there that have our eyes open to the fact the Country is failing before out eyes?
               
               Yes, I promote MAGA, but I also can see It's not a matter of who we want.
               It's a matter. or who we need. It's a matter of who we can win with. If we don't win, the movement is stymied.
               
               My god, time to wake up, and work to unite the party defined, yes our movement, but who can win? If the Democrats keep the WH, I can't imagine how much more damage they will do.
               
               We need to come off our pedestals and be realistic.

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                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  You asked:
                  How many of us know the country is failing?
                  
                  The youth do ... and they ascribe to the likes of Richard Wolff.
                  AOC is in that camp by expressing the need to tax the Rich.
                  
                  How can we combat such fancy talkers who the youth love because they make sense on a very ignorant level.
                  
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlhFMa4t28A

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                  1. 84

                     Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                     We can only perhaps beat them by uniting our party. All our talk will add up to a hill of beans --- unless we can come to back one presidential candidate.I feel if we don't we will have given the Democrats four more years to progress down a path of a one-party Nation, and a nation that may as well be labeled a Socialist Nation.
                     
                     The young have come out to vote and beat a 30-year record. So, yes we need to consider like no time before we need to pull together a vast Republican base, we do not need a badly split party, due to loyalty to any one man. We certainly should have learned something from the midterms.
                     
                     Trump's base is smaller than we thought. Did saddens me, but I am ready to be realistic.

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4. 84

   Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

   It's all philosophy.
   And psychology.
   Education is about understanding.
   How do we get the youth to understand the Very Sound Basis of the Constitution?
   
   By understanding it ourselves, which we do not. They were ahead of their time, those brilliant and wise Framers. I don't even think Trump understands the mechanisms outlined in The Constitution, but his common sense and a love of success for all, aligns with it.
   
   Common sense is sense which is common to all. We are equal in opportunity, not outcome. Richard Wolf concentrates on outcome. Equality, as the ideal and common goal, is a dangerous thing.
   
   Let each work according to the motivation factor within. Freedom of choice and freedom to guide one's own will/self gives joy. Joy is the foundation of Life.
   
   Let us have the freedom a democratic republic offers, while understanding the importance of appropriate boundaries which must contain it.
   
   For instance, it was Obama who freely sent jobs overseas and made us become a service-oriented country, rather than a production-oriented country. Maybe that "freedom" should not have been allowed.
   
   We need to inspire and encourage those who would grow their businesses and become wealthy enough to provide jobs for others, but we need to stand firm on not allowing them to merge with other companies and dominate financially, becoming unfairly powerful: No monopolies.
   
   We need to focus on the boundaries to freedom ... in order to keep freedom.   
   
   The Vital connection between Boundaries and Freedom is what is not understood. They are two side of the same coin ...
   - can't have one without the other.

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5. 83

   Stephen Tomkinsonposted 2 years ago

   What if Pence makes a run as a traditional Republican candidate?

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   1. 84

      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      No, won't happen. (... that he would get the support.) How about Kari Lake?
      
      (I find her to be a bit irritating, so that may not work out either. How come the ones who have the best understanding of what the people need and will benefit them the most ... are a bit irritating?)

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   2. 59

      Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Mr Pence is definitely going to run.  The Republican party has outcast him though. He didn't support subverting the 2020 vote and he is not an election denier therefore he is a RINO.
      The Republican Party has moved to the far right extreme. More sensible, moderate candidates don't have a chance.

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      1. 84

         Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Trump is our only hope. Sorry.
         But he needs to give us a break. Come back closer to the primaries.

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            Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            I think a lot of us are praying and have our fingers crossed for Mr Trump's return.

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   3. 84

      Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I feel Pence would make a wonderful candidate. He is a conservative that also is truely on board with the America first agenda. Yet, I think he would be in the center, and very much a man that would work with Democrats.

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         Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         As a RINO it would seem that Mr. Pence has a snowballs chance in hell for the  nomination.  Do you believe that the Republican Party is ready to pivot back to RINO'S? 
         On the other hand, MAGA seems to go hand in hand with election denial and extreme positions as evidenced by the midterm candidates positions.  It was a losing proposition for the majority of them. Do you think the platform will fly at the presidential level?

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            Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            The party can see it needs someone that will bring in Trump's base, and Pence has always supported the MAGA agenda. So, who knows?  Trump has a relationship with Pence, and Pence claims they are still close friends. perhaps Trump would come out for Pence. 
            
            We need Trump's base one way or the other, and the folks like me that hope to see the MAGA survive.
            
            I don't feel there are as many election deniers as the media pushes. There are many Republicans that are on board with putting America first.

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            1. 59

               Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

               The problem I see, well one of the problems anyway, with the MAGA movement is that it is riddled with election deniers and conspiracy theorists.   It also contains the faction of those who are overly concerned with culture war issues that Americans in general have little care for. 
               I think we will learn a lot about the direction the Republican Party plans to take as we see who they elect as leader of the House. Mr McCarthy doesn't seem to have the votes and names such as Andy Biggs and Jim Jordan have been floated. In my opinion, either of those would be a nail in the coffin.   I think Republicans should move away from the angry, loudmouth, cruel, hair on fire figures.

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               1. 84

                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  Because of Covid, computer voting machines and drop-off boxes we had a problem as far as a fair vote.
                  
                  Who trusts those eerie computer voting machines? Bring back the concrete poking pen and paper, I say.

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               Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

               Trump come out for Pense?  I wouldn't count on it. Trump is only going to "come out" for Trump.

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                  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  At this point, I think you are right. However, I don't think anyone can truly predict what Trump will do if he feels he can't win a primary. He could drop out. We know one thinks he literally hates the Democratic party. So, I do think he might rally his base against the Dem that runs in 2024. I don't think he would step away.

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         Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Pense certainly is not the center or anything, in principle he is even to the Right of center Right. He would have more manners than Trump, but outside of that we have nothing in common.

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         1. 84

            Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            I think Pence is all about less spending, and just out and out about putting America first. I do think he will run.

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6. 84

   Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

   It seems the Democrats have charm, and the Republicans do not.
   So we might as well accept Trump, since who ever the Republicans pick will be an irritating person. But we can't rack our brains over this matter at this time.
   If I were Trump I would sit back until later.
   
   Let him re-emerge as someone new, refined and political. Someone who knows how to be decent and respectful, rather than cavalier and bombastic. He needs lessons on how to not be irritating.

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   1. 59

      Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Mr Trump does not have time to sit back and wait. He looks like a heart attack waiting to happen.  The Republican party as a whole has lost its way and I think they need to go away for a few election cycles until they regroup and figure out what they really want to be.

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7. 59

   Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years ago

   If Mr DeSantis reaches the national stage he's going to need to drop this "stop woke" nonsense
   
   A Florida judge on Thursday declared a Florida law championed by Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis that restricts race-based conversation and analysis in business and education unconstitutional.
   
   Tallahassee U.S. District Judge Mark Walker said in a 44-page ruling that the “Stop WOKE” act violates the First Amendment and is impermissibly vague. Walker also refused to issue a stay that would keep the law in effect during any appeal by the state.
   The judge said said the law, as applied to diversity, inclusion and bias training in businesses, turns the First Amendment “upside down” because the state is barring speech by prohibiting discussion of certain concepts in training programs.
   
   “If Florida truly believes we live in a post-racial society, then let it make its case,” the judge wrote. “But it cannot win the argument by muzzling its opponents.”
   
   In his ruling Thursday, Walker determined those policies violate First Amendment free speech protections along with due-process rights in the 14th Amendment on college campuses.
   
   “The law officially bans professors from expressing disfavored viewpoints in university classrooms while permitting unfettered expression of the opposite viewpoints,” wrote Walker. “Defendants argue that, under this Act, professors enjoy ‘academic freedom’ so long as they express only those viewpoints of which the State approves. This is positively dystopian.”.   
   
   Why does he believe that government should have its hand in regulating the speech of businesses?  College professors?
   Government has absolutely no business in this kind of stuff.  Mr DeSantis comes off as an overreaching autocrat.  The government should now be in the business of protecting people's feelings?? 
   
   https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/j … -education

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      wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      From you link:  "The law prohibits teaching or business practices that contend members of one ethnic group are inherently racist and should feel guilt for past actions committed by others. It also bars the notion that a person’s status as privileged or oppressed is necessarily determined by their race or gender, or that discrimination is acceptable to achieve diversity."
      
      To me, this reads that it is all right to teach that all men are NOT created equal: that skin color determines whether a person is guilty of racism or not.  It is OK to teach that skin color determines whether a person is "privileged" or not, disregarding reality in its entirety in favor of a racist decision.
      
      Govt. has long decided what colleges can teach (as well as other schools); what is different about the "woke" concept except that it is politically acceptable rather than otherwise?  Colleges have become hotbeds of liberalism, virtually banning any an all examples of conservatism and conservative speakers; as an arm of government, is that not exactly what this judge decries as wrong?  Colleges have long denied professors the right to disagree with university culture, whether in science, philosophy, religion or politics; why is this one suddenly protected against that?
      
      I think this judge is a part of the woke culture himself; as such he is not qualified to rule on the matter.

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         Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Plainly put, I don't want government dictating what corporations and college professors can say or teach. That is authoritarianism in my book.

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            wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Then, I think, we need to come down pretty hard on (particularly) universities.  Their very decided liberal bent, their refusal to allow conservative speakers, their actions against any conservative speech from professors all needs curtailed, and right now.
            
            Corporations; I'm not away of negative corporate speech, outside of efforts to conform to current, woke, "theology".  Of course, it is extremely offensive to be forced to sit through classes describing how racist, how cruel, how privileged one is as a result of the color of their skin.  Personally, I would find another job as quickly as possible were that to happen, and it would not matter what color I am.  Such demands are intrinsically racist themselves and I am not interested for working for a racist employer.

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8. 83

   Stephen Tomkinsonposted 2 years ago

   Many of us on the left would agree with every word you say Wilderness.

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