Is (has) Donald Trump Destroyed America?

1. 84

   My Esotericposted 5 years ago

   General Mattis, Secretary of Defense, resigned in protest over the actions of an out of control president.  A CNN opinion piece by Stephen Collinson starts of this way -
   
   "The defense secretary's decision to quit Thursday was a warning that will ring through history about an impulsive President who spurns advice, disdains America's friends and proudly repudiates the codes of US leadership that have endured since World War II."
   
   DO YOU AGREE or DISAGREE with that sentiment??

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   1. 89

      wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      As this "code" has come to simply mean that we police the world while lying down to be walked on so as to provide better access to our pocketbooks, I would agree that the secretary was right.  Trump is repudiating it, and high time someone did.

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      1. 84

         My Esotericposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         Interesting take, Wilderness.  So you think Mattis (and Tillerson and McMaster and Kelly etc) had no clue as to what is good for America?  That only dangerously mentally ill Trump does?
         
         Do you actually believe that every president and Congress prior to Mr. Ego supreme were as incompetent has Trump says they are??
         
         Sad

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         1. 76

            Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Where did you get your doctorate in psychiatry, and when did you have the President of the United States of America as your patient?

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            1. 54

               Michael Pedrino Iposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               You don't have to be a proctologist to know when someone has their head up their ass.  Trump displays on a daily basis his immaturity, lack of intelligence, and disregard for our laws and traditional norms of common civility.  The people that support him are not traditional conservatives, they are a cult of paranoid misfits that believe the world is out to get them.  These social misfits have been around for a long time.  The Know Nothing Party, John Birch Society, KKK, Tea Party and now Trumpsters.  As long as there are stupid people who believe that ignorance is bliss, there will always be those who perpetuate conspiracy theories in order to make money off of these suckers.  PT Barnum said a sucker was born every minute, and Trump proved him right.

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            2. 84

               My Esotericposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               One doesn't need a doctorate in psychiatry to see the obvious.  But, besides things being beyond obvious, I have read the opinion of many health care professionals, many of them with the doctorate you covet, and they present clear and convincing evidence of Trump's dangerous mental illness. Further, they make clear they don't need to have Trump as a patient in order relate decades of external observations of his statements, writings, and actions to determine that he fits most of the criteria of Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder and several other disorders I haven't thought of.
               
               You can chose to be the three monkeys or ostrich, but the rest of us want to keep our eyes, ears, and mouth open.

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               1. 70

                  Ken Burgessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  
                  
                  I don't really see where you have focused any useful energy in the last two years on anything but ranting against Trump (the both of you).
                  
                  A quick look at your page is one rant article about Trump after another, talk about PTSD (Pres. Trump Stress Disorder), you appear to be a living breathing example of it. 
                  
                  Proof that you have your "eyes, ears, and mouth" closed to everything going on in the world around you, but Trump.
                  
                  Let me give you a list of 5 things that are an immediate threat to life on Earth, and thereby far more dangerous than your fixation with Trump:
                  
                  #1 - Fukushima 
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn-P3qnlB10
                  
                  #2 - Plastic
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju_2NuK5O-E
                  
                  #3 - Deforestation
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic-J6hcSKa8
                  
                  #4 - Overpopulation
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsBT5EQt348
                  
                  #5 - Methane
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dc6t94MdtM

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                  1. 84

                     My Esotericposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     The reason is, Trump is SO dangerous to America that two years of pointing out his problems is worth the effort.  The tyrant must go!!
                     
                     And guess what, if Trump/conservatives were gone, we could start addressing Methane, Overpopulation, Deforestation, plastic  Trump OPPOSES solutions to ALL of those.  Not sure what a nuclear power plant (which I favor) and a tidal wave have to do with the other world-wide disasters you listed.

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                     1. 70

                        Ken Burgessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                        As for the peril Fukushima has put our world in, perhaps you should watch the video (link) to better understand.
                        
                        As to the other, all you have to do is stop pouring all your efforts into bashing Trump/Conservatives, and put your efforts instead into fixing real problems that may bring disaster to us all, and you would be contributing far more to helping the world be a better place than your current myopic focus on all-things-Trump.

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                        1. 84

                           My Esotericposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                           You are clearly overstating things.  Fukushima definitely put part of Japan in peril, but hardly the world.
                           
                           And I have seen the video many times when it happened. 
                           
                           I can help make the world a better place by helping get Trump out of office before his term is up.  Trump is a VERY REAL problem.
                           
                           And I will stop bashing conservatives when they stop doing bad things to people who aren't WASP and female.

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      2. 70

         Ken Burgessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         Police the World?
         
         I don't think that is what Libya or Syria would say we did for them.
         
         We really took a serious turn for the worse during the previous Admin, we were pretty bad under Bush too, but there was some sort of justification behind it made... WMDs and 9/11 whatever you may feel about them.
         
         But Libya and Syria, what sorry work, the excuses were so feeble, and our (the CIA's) fingerprints were all over place, our interference clear for the world to see (even if our media here in America kept it under wraps), not to mention our toppling the Ukraine government and starting a nice war there to occupy Russia and give an excuse to cozy right up to the Russian border.
         
         Who exactly is it that supports our pursuit of WWIII?
         
         Because that is exactly what you are supporting if you think we belong in Syria and the Ukraine.

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         1. 89

            wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Police the world - isn't that what is being demanded we do about the journalist that was murdered by his own people in their embassy?  Force them to obey the laws WE have and stop behavior we don't think is right?  Aren't we called on all the time to correct "human rights" of other countries?  Who stepped up and ranted about North Korea alongside Trump?  We got some help in Kuwait, but again provided the large bulk of the effort.
            
            While other countries mostly sit back and watch, isn't it the US that has taken the lead in fighting Islamic terrorists?  We get some help - the rest of the world put together provides a fraction of what we do, and it is OUR young men and women that die in the process.

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            1. 70

               Ken Burgessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               I don't think you want me to go down the list of how many Islamic terrorist organizations we trained or funded or armed via CIA and other off-the-books efforts.  But I will give a glimpse into what I did verify years back:
               
               2009: Obama travels to Cairo to deliver apologetic speech to Muslims, inviting banned Muslim Brotherhood leaders to attend. Obama deliberately snubs Egypt's president Mubarak, who was neither present nor mentioned. He also snubs Israel during the Mideast trip.
               
               2009: Obama appoints a Muslim Brotherhood tied Islamist, Rashad Hussain, as U.S. envoy to the Organization of the Islamic Conference, which supports the Brotherhood.
               
               2010: The Brotherhood's supreme guide calls for jihad against the U.S.
               
               2011: Riots erupt in Cairo's Tahrir Square. Crowds organized by the Brotherhood demand Mubarak's ouster, storm buildings.
               
               2011: The White House fails to back longtime ally Mubarak, who flees Cairo.
               
               2011: William Taylor, Hillary Clinton's special coordinator for Middle East transitions, and a longtime associate of Brotherhood sympathizers, gives the Brotherhood special training to prepare for post Mubarak elections.
               
               2011: The Brotherhood wins control of Egyptian parliament, vows to tear up Egypt's 30-year peace treaty with Israel and reestablishes ties with Hamas, Hezbollah.
               
               2011: Obama gives Mideast speech demanding Israel relinquish land to Palestinians, while still refusing to visit Israel.
               
               2011: The Justice Department pulls plug on further prosecution of U.S. based Brotherhood front groups identified as collaborators in conspiracy to funnel millions to Hamas.
               
               2011: Uprisings led by the Muslim Brotherhood against the government of Muammar Gaddafi occur in the city. The revolts spread to Bayda, Tobruk, Ajdabya, Al Marj in the East and Zintan, Zawiya in the West, calling for the end of the Gaddafi Regime.
               
               2011: The State Department formalizes ties with Egypt's Brotherhood, letting diplomats deal directly with Brotherhood party officials in Cairo.
               
               April 2012: The administration quietly releases $1.5 billion in foreign aid to the new Egyptian regime.
               
               June 2012: Morsi wins presidency amid widespread reports of electoral fraud and voter intimidation by gun-toting Brotherhood militia, including blockades of entire streets to prevent Christians from going to the polls. The Obama administration turns a blind eye, recognizes Morsi as victor.
               
               June 2012: In a victory speech, Morsi vows to instate Shariah law, turning Egypt into an Islamic theocracy, and also promises to free jailed terrorists.
               
               July 2012: Obama invites Morsi to visit the White House in September.
               
               August 2012: Egypt's President Morsi, visits with China at the invitation of President Hu Jintao. Morsi sought Chinese investments that would enable Egypt to "dispense of loans and aid," from America and its allies in the West... From China, Morsi traveled to Tehran to attend the Non-Aligned Summit, and days after the summit ends, the attacks against America's embassies all across the Middle East begin.
               
               September 11, 2012 - A Libyan militia known as the February 17 Brigade, had been charged with providing local security to the consulate in Libya. The State Department (and by extension the White House) was depending on them to protect Ambassador Stevens.
               
               The 'commander' of the February 17 Brigade, Fawzi Bukatef, was a member of Libya’s branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, and one of his group’s commanders reporting to him was Ismail al-Salabi, leader of a group of Islamist fighters, and the brother of Libya’s then most prominent Islamist extremist, Ali al-Salabi.
               
               The February 17 Brigade stood down as the Islamist attackers stormed the U.S. consulate. The Libyan Interior Minister Wanis al-Sharif claims a day after the attacks, that Libyan security forces the Obama Admin was depending on to protect the Ambassador essentially handed the US consulate personnel over to the attackers.
               
               Sep 14, 2012 - the Times of London reports that a Libyan ship “carrying the largest consignment of weapons for Syria … had docked in Turkey.” and then "more than 80 per cent of the ship's cargo…has been moved into Syria." The shipment reportedly weighed 400 tons and included SA-7 surface-to-air anti-craft missiles and rocket-propelled grenades.
               
               Those heavy weapons were from Muammar Gaddafi’s stock of about 20,000 portable heat-seeking missiles—the bulk of them SA-7s—that the Libyan leader obtained from the former Eastern bloc. Reuters began reporting soon after 9-14-12 that Syrian rebels were using those heavy weapons to shoot down Syrian helicopters and fighter jets.
               
               The ship’s captain was ”a Libyan from Benghazi and the head of an organization called the Libyan National Council for Relief and Support,” which was presumably established by the new government, he also has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood.
               
               It was the Muslim Brotherhood movement in Syria that received at least part of the weapons shipment. In a NY Times article from June 2012 it was stated "that a small number of C.I.A. officers are operating secretly in southern Turkey, helping allies decide which Syrian opposition fighters across the border will receive arms by way of a shadowy network of intermediaries including Syria’s Muslim Brotherhood."
               
               The origins of the 'riots' and attacks on our Embassies began in Egypt, which at that time was under the rule of the Muslim Brotherhood. In each step, from where and when the riots began, to who was supposed to be providing protection to the Ambassador, to the Captain of the ship, to those who received the weapons, to the attacks on Syrian military and civilian targets... the Muslim Brotherhood had a presence in every step of it.  Which members of the Obama Admin were working with, and which the CIA had strong ties to during that timeframe in that region.

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   2. 67

      JAKE Earthshineposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      It's obvious American Patriot General Mattis is deeply concerned and alarmed by Bozo Trump's open overt appeasing and cowering to our enemies such as Vladimir Putin: INSANE: UNREAL and Unacceptable:
      
      The Shear INSANITY of this mad illegitimate, dark oval office continues despite the undermining and sabotage of the USA from the inside out: A megalomaniac madman appears to be attempting to cripple the pillars of our democracy and when a military hero patriot like General Mattis resigns because he finds the circus clown in chief is unfit and perhaps under the control of a foreign force, it's beyond time for republicans in congress to save what's left of this country instead of blindly supporting an unstable elderly man who could care less about them or this country:

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      1. 84

         My Esotericposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         Love your meme. That about sums it up.  God, I'll be glad when he is in jail where Trump and is family belong (except Melania, Barron, and the daughter that stays our of the headlines)

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         1. 81

            GA Andersonposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            "Love your meme"
            
            That thought reminds me of the sentiment I remember seeing on a thread, years ago, when Margaret Thatcher died.
            
            The thread participants were celebratory. I found that sentiment both illuminating and disgusting.
            
            GA

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            1. 79

               hard sunposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               I think the meme represents a disgusting truth.
               
               What do you think about the lock her up chants?

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               1. 81

                  GA Andersonposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  I wasn't addressing the meme hard sun, although my comment does say what I think of it.
                  
                  To answer your question, I thought that chant was moronic. I think most mob chants are.
                  
                  GA

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                  1. 79

                     hard sunposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     Yeah, we def agree on moronic mob chants. They obviously make for good campaigns though.
                     
                     Do you think the comment is celebrating some embarrassing realities for America and Trump? And/or you think it's a disgusting sentiment to celebrate the possibility of several members of Trump's family going to jail?
                     
                     I'm likely just being a bit slow on this, but I'm genuinely interested on people's views on this beyond the extreme left and the extreme Trump supporters.
                     
                     I really don't like getting caught up in mob thinking of either side. You know I think Trump is a buffoon, but that doesn't mean I enjoy any of this show.

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                     1. 81

                        GA Andersonposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                        You got me hard sun. I would leave my original comment to express what I meant, but your question seemed an honest one. So ...
                        
                        Regardless of who the subject of the meme could have been  -- private citizen or famous politician, I think it was demeaning and disgusting.
                        
                        To post or endorse such a meme speaks to the person doing the posting or endorsing in a very unflattering way that I would hope I am never thought of, anywhere, not just these forums.
                        
                        I think my original comment that I equate it to someone celebrating someone's death, just because they didn't like their politics explained my thoughts  better this this elaboration does.
                        
                        Secondly, if further demeans the office of the president. Doesn't that bother you?
                        
                        GA

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                        1. 79

                           hard sunposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                           Thanks. It was a genuine question, and I likely was just reading into it too much. My first reaction was exactly what you explained, but then I began to think.It's difficult sometimes to get context and meaning in forums.
                           
                           Does it bother me? It's not what I'd have chosen to post. As I stated, I don't enjoy the show. The big picture here, to me though, is that Trump himself IS demeaning the office of the President. It may never be the same, and that's sad.

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                           1. 67

                              JAKE Earthshineposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                              Let this SINK IN: According to his letter, General Mattis our former Defense Secretary, an American Hero just RESIGNED because of Bozo Trump's reckless insanity, ineptitude and allegiance to our enemies: Got it NOW ?? I sure hope so:
                              
                              At this point, I'm not really sure how GA believes the overwhelming majority of Americans and the world should be reacting to an abominably disturbed, woefully unfit physically and psychologically 72 year old sadistic man who is systematically betraying the USA every day in broad daylight from the inside out while undermining the very fabric and institutions of this country: Not to mention his maniacal actions which place this entire planet and her ailing environment in dire jeopardy with species extinction just over the horizon, how can any rational individual NOT believe this is the anti-Christ ??
                              
                              A federal judge the other day finally asked the million dollar question of Mueller's prosecutors in paraphrase, "Did you consider charging Michael Flynn for treason" ??? Wait until the judges get a hold of Donny Boy and Family:
                              
                              YES, according to our laws, when this dreadful poor excuse for a human being is finally imprisoned, there will indeed be a joyous celebration like none other in history, just like when Germany fell in the 1940's, and his last remaining cult followers had better snap out of it before they find themselves facing God as a pathetic disciple of his:

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                              1. 79

                                 hard sunposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                 I agree that Trump's ineptitude should be more than clear by now. However, I think religion, in general, contributes to the attitudes that help bring about people like Trump. They have "faith" that he has the answers, no matter what the evidence states. And, he uses church leaders, as do most politicians to push agendas that are counter to the needs of the people. I don't expect many people here to agree, or care, what I think on this, but I'm a proud non-theist.

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                              2. 81

                                 GA Andersonposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                 Jake, as a self-designated arbiter of truth and fact, you should be able to support your interpretation of what Gen. Mattis' resignation letter said.
                                 
                                 The specifics I read in his letter don't match your rhetoric. Does hyperbole equal truth to you?
                                 
                                 However, you are right that you aren't sure how I think Americans and the world should be reacting to Pres. Trump's tenure -- so far. As a clue I will tell you that I won't be joining any of your celebration lines.
                                 
                                 GA

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                                 1. 67

                                    JAKE Earthshineposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                    GA, if you're a 'self arbiter of truth and fact' you should accept the dire truth of General Mattis' resignation which is nothing less than SHOCKING and Alarming to not only the USA but the world: This is just one more indicator of the destruction and insanity NOW going on in our oval office:
                                    
                                    BTW: I'm not surprised that you won't be celebrating Donald's removal because for whatever reason, you STILL follow the biggest LIAR and Betrayer in political history, a dark sick individual who could care less about Truth or FACT: You'll be in a very tiny minority who does NOT celebrate the desperately required REMOVAL of an illegitimate president who appeases and expresses a public allegiance and admiration for our enemies:

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                                    1. 81

                                       GA Andersonposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                       But I am not an arbiter of truth and fact Jake. When it comes to fact, I am mostly just a vessel for Mother Google.
                                       
                                       When it comes to truth, then Mother Google becomes my wingman. And when the two are combined - truth and fact, then I am as Stobaeus. Which as you pointed out, would put me in a very tiny minority.
                                       
                                       (Oh gawd Jake, look what you have done. Now I feel I have to point out this is just a facetious reply.)
                                       
                                       GA

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                                       1. 70

                                          Ken Burgessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                          Stobaeus...  obscure and little known choice.

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                                    2. 67

                                       JAKE Earthshineposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                       GA, you must by now realize that the TRUTH and Bozo Trump diverge drastically right ??

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                                 2. 70

                                    Ken Burgessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                    
                                    
                                    The answer to that question is most assuredly obvious in his many posts, I daresay this particular one is of the more lucid variety.

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                                    1. 67

                                       JAKE Earthshineposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                       Lucid and Truthful Ken

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                           2. 81

                              GA Andersonposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                              What I meant by that question wasn't about the meme's content hardson, it was about something demeaning the office of the president.
                              
                              I was so sure that a response about Pres. Trump already demeaning the office would follow that I nearly added a caveat to that point. But I didn't because my comment wasn't about Pres. Trump's actions, so I didn't want to introduce that angle. Even though I knew it would be coming.
                              
                              GA

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                              1. 79

                                 hard sunposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                 I understand your question was about something that demeans the office of the President. Thus, my penchant for the truth necessitated my bringing up Trump's action whether you introduced it or not. At any rate, I appreciate your answering my original inquiry.

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         2. 76

            Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Jake and yourself are peas in a pod. You both represent the exact same level of intellect. A brilliance like you two share, wow, I can only imagine the shades I'd need, were your presence ever before me.

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            1. 84

               My Esotericposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               And aren't you a pea in the pod of people immune to reality

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2. 84

   My Esotericposted 5 years ago

   Here is the whole article
   
   https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/21/politics … index.html

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3. 0

   Onusonusposted 5 years ago

   Democrats used to be in favor of this until Trump did it.
   

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   1. 84

      My Esotericposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      First, Ds are a minority in the House, Senate, Executive, and Supreme Court - So WHEN could they do anything?  They tried when they were in power only to be stymied, for the most part, by Mitch McConnell and is band of conservatives.
      
      Now to this "Urban Council and $100 B". This is what it really is: "The order creates a White House panel dubbed the Opportunity and Revitalization Council, which will be led by Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson and consist of representatives from 13 federal agencies."   
      
      The $100B was NOT part of that Executive Order.  Most likely it has to do with incentives for corporations to invest in distressed areas. (One of the few good things about the new tax law.)
      
      Why, after two years, are borders MORE porous than they were under Obama??
      
      Yes, Trump is trying to disengage America from the world and significantly increasing the chance for widespread armed conflict and repeats of 9/11.
      
      One bright spot is Kushner finally got his way and talked Trump into signing the reform bill.

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