Is AOC proof that millennials could be America's dumbest generation?

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Readmikenowposted 4 years ago

Many people are asking if millennials could be America's dumbest generation. This has been highlighted by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and her incoherent ramblings and how they make sense to millennials. It is sad. A sergeant once yelled at a guy next to me and said: “Are you that stupid boy or are you just puttin's on a dumb play today?” I hope they are just acting. It seems much of what they think they know is wrong.

“As early as the 1950s, Britain began to privatize its social security and pension programs. By the 1990s, as decades of socialism caused economic growth to stagnate, Sweden followed suit. Neither Sweden nor Norway mandates a minimum wage, and Britain demands a minimum wage well below Ocasio-Cortez’s proposed $15 per hour. Britain and Finland offer a lower corporate tax rate than the United States, and all the nations she names have lower rates than her proposal of 28 percent. None has a health care regime as socialistic as her proposed Medicare-For-All scheme, which constitutes a full federal takeover of health care.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s ignorance of economics and foreign affairs typifies her generation. Despite holding expensive degrees in both Economics and International Relations from Boston University, Ocasio-Cortez threw up her hands in exasperation during an interview on Margaret Hoover’s “Firing Line” program, laughing, “I’m not the expert on geopolitics.” Fortunately for her, in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king; and among a blithely ignorant generation, the lightly educated activist is congresswoman.”

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/alexand … MnImEKYF3E

The Dumbest Generation' by Mark Bauerlein

"The Dumbest Generation," there are also some keen insights into how the new digital world really is changing the way young people engage with information and the obstacles they face in integrating any of it meaningfully. These are insights that educators, parents and other adults ignore at their peril.”

LA Times Review
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/l … story.html
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Dumbest generation so far...
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  And you're smack in the middle of it, aren't you?
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  If today's generation is dumb there's only one generation to blame for their upbringing. So you know who the real dumb ones are.
  
  Everything still aligns perfectly with a normal distribution around intellect as it always has.
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed. That is until this generation begins to bring up the next one.
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  Tim Truzy info4uposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I think given time, these youth will shine. Scientists have demonstrated they have incredible eye and hand coordination and tend to have a dedicated work ethic. I don't underestimate our youth.
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  Hxprofposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think AOC is indicative of a dumb generation. I do think that her willingness to enthusiastically advertise the details of her political philosophy is an indication that 1) There's an audience, and she knows it. 2) That this philosophy has a chance to grab the imagination of even more Americans, and she knows it.
  
  Folks like AOC, de Blasio and Sanders would at one time have been marginalized or shut out of the political process entirely. But we're witnessing a growing demand for ear candy, and AOC in particular is providing it.
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I think you're right on your two points. But don't both 1) and 2) both indicate that "dumb generation"? Because without ignorant (though not particularly "dumb" or "stupid") people she won't have any listeners.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Worked well for Trump.
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  How dare you call non-millennials dumb.
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  Hxprofposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  It indicates, I think, these things: 1) a spoiled generation 2) a generation frustrated that things don't seem to be moving forward economically for them 3) ignorance.
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  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Kids these days....
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  Eastwardposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I think AOC is intelligent enough. She seems to shoot down every attempt at character assassination with ease (and that's saying something with the forces aligned against her). She is early on in her career and quite optimistic. I wouldn't hold that against her either. We could use a little optimism in the political spectrum. She's left of most of my stances but my generation (Gen X) seemed to lack any direction at all. I think most were still running on the fumes of the baby boomer machine, waiting for the glory years of legend to re-materialize (at least in terms of middle class strength). We failed to ask the important questions of our leaders and paid the price. AOC seems to be doing a lot in terms of raising the bar on transparency, which in my opinion, is vital for the survival of American values on a global scale. She's also asking tough questions and doing so relentlessly. Strangely enough, love or hate either of them, that seems to be something that Trump supporters looked to him for as well.
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  As a member of Gen. X, do you see or understand how absolutely ridiculous her Green New Deal is? She says a lot of extremely idiotic things.
  
  "AOC seems to be doing a lot in terms of raising the bar on transparency, which in my opinion, is vital for the survival of American values on a global scale. She's also asking tough questions and doing so relentlessly."
  
  How? She's done nothing but say and do things that make her look stupid. I mean, really stupid.
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  Eastwardposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  As I said, she is left of where I stand on a lot of issues. I don't agree with all points of a Green New Deal, however, there has been a constant stream of things coming from politicians that I find much more dangerous (Citizens United, NDAA, The Patriot Act, senseless wars, militarization of the police force, surveillance, persecution of whistle-blowers exposing crimes of the system).
  
  As for transparency, she seems to very social with every aspect of her public role, which I appreciate. I think we need to work towards change in government making it almost impossible to keep anything from the citizens except in extreme situations of national security (not the national security catch-all net that is current being tossed over the country and treating all of us like we're really, really stupid).
  
  Her role-play might come off a little corny but she does get straight answers on some major flaws in our system. They might not be surprises to any of us, but they are aspects rarely talked about or pursued:
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFhgXP2lze4
  
  I'm not saying she has all her answers but I do look forward to see how some of the ideas she supports take shape simultaneously with Bernie Sanders' candidacy.
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, I now see why so many of the "bad guys" here are shitting their pants. This girl right here proves that many of the millennials are the smartest generation in a long time. Go, girl.
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  Eastwardposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  There are a lot of things that are currently legal that are not moral or in the interests of most American citizens. I'd say she has the high ground. I hope she does well as she is going to have her share of enemies on both sides of the aisle.
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Yup, most citizens being the key word here.
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  This video was also addressed in an earlier thread. You might have missed it. I don't know who the "bad guys" are, but I apparently saw something different in her "game" performance than you did.
  
  But don't misunderstand my point. I do not think she is stupid.
  
  https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/342 … ost4060467
  
  GA
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Just read that response now. I did miss the video, yes.
  
  There is no doubt that her team has helped her. That's how Politics works. By calling her smart, I am stating that the OP is wrong in calling the millennials dumb because of what she says because in fact, she is saying smart things. If it's people from another generation who are coaching her, so be it.
  
  The "bad guys" are those that have no morals of their own and believe that anything that is "legally right" is good for a nation. This is very much like the folk that follow the Bible or the Quaran as their moral center. No this is not what I said, but what the guy in the video said and it's right and I couldn't say it any better.
  
  Accepting a bribe because you are legally allowed to is not the right thing to do. Everyone knows that's how most politicians across the globe work. Words from her mouth pointed it out in a high profile scenario.
  
  Also, if you are referring to Sheldon from the BBT, no she probably does not fall in the same category.
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  My point was that I think that is more than just "her team" that is helping her. And I don't have a problem with that. That's just politics--on both sides of the aisle.
  
  I do think she is politically naive, but I don't think she is stupid. Conversely, I think she is smart enough to ride the wave of party support I think she is getting.
  
  As mentioned in my original response, my reason for thinking this is her appointment to that committee, and the orchestration of the panel hearing she starred in. And again, I think that is just normal politics, I don't have a problem with it. My problem was with the promoted perception that the video shows she is a savvy operator from the get-go.
  
  As for your legally allowed vs. morally correct, that's a judgment call we all must make.
  
  GA
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  Charles Berryposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  My 13-year old is in this same generation. These kids today don't know the value of a dollar and think our generation owes them something. They don't realize hard work has its benefits. They are a spoiled generation.
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Does this reflect your parenting? Or does it reflect the education s/he's getting from someone in your generation? Someone has spoiled them and they are not spoiled on their own. Also, not every one of the generation is the same, look at some of the kids in Europe standing up for things that matter knowing that money is a means but not the end.
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  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Certain segments of every generation think subsequent generations are spoiled, entitled, lazy, ignorant, or some variation thereof.
  
  Let them have their illusions of superiority. This new generation is less materialistic and less likely to buy into job/house/car/2-kids-and-a-dog expectation. I see that as a good thing.
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, that's a good thing and yes you are right. For many of us, our home is more than just our house.
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  gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly, we boomers were the subject of severe criticism by older generations, especially the G.I. generation who thought that we are spoiled & unappreciative in addition to not knowing the value of work & sacrifice. How many times did we boomers hear from our G.I. generation parents that we had it TOO EASY...……..Each generation has a different culture & perspective...………….Each new generation is criticized by its elders- reasons include jealousy of the opportunities of the succedent generation that the precedent generation didn't & would never have. Good point, PP.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  They found graffiti on the ancient Roman Colosseum saying virtually the same thing, Charlie. In fact, my parents said the same thing about my generation.
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  It's the simple route to take when you realize that you don't understand something or when someone does something different than you.
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Brandon, our generation got grief from our parents when we were your age. Now, it's your turn. I say to you guys "suck it up buttercup," this is how the world works. You can cause your children grief just like every other generation. You just have to wait your turn. So, enjoy the ride, that day will come.
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Nope, we aren't like you'll, just like you weren't like your parents. We don't suck it up, we are just being responsible. Something many in your generation need to learn to do unless you want to continue being a vacuum cleaner and be full of dirt. I don't want to use a particular synonym of dirt that works better in this statement.
  
  You had your chance to raise your kids, let us raise ours the way we see fit.
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  You're funny. Thanks for the laugh. I enjoyed it. I like you guys, you're fun.
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  You're welcome. But I'm sorry I don't share the sentiment.
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Brandon, you are the best! I have been on HubPages a few years and your response is the best. You made my day.
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Cute Randy, but untrue. That Colosseum graffiti was later to determined to be "If you want sex call..."
  
  But seriously, I know you can't reply because you have been banned again. So I will speak for you now and then until you return. ;-)
  
  GA
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Randy says that if you want proof of that graffiti, come on down here and I will show you.
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  IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  ??
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  ?? -- About the graffiti or about Randy?
  
  The graffiti was his joke, he touched base via email about the ban. But he's coming back. I hope.
  
  GA
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Why did he get banned?
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  He hasn't been told - specifically, but, as I mentioned to him, his recent replies had become very derogatory towards posters themselves--not the content of their comments.
  
  I think it is possible the moderators viewed these as personal attacks, not debate or heated discussion.
  
  Of course, I am only speculating. Here, and as I did with Randy.
  
  GA
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I see. Does he know how long the ban is going to be?
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  3 months.
  
  GA
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Oh no.
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  IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I get what you're saying...
  
  But I don't know. Seems to me some people get a pass for similar (and worse) comments.
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  IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, about the ban. Why this time?
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  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think he knows why, yet. Maybe someone could fess up if they reported him for something?
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  It happens, I've been banned twice. It's no big deal. Randy will be back soon being Randy for all to enjoy.
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  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I've been banned, too. It's helpful to know why, though.
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  IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. (Me too )
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  promisemposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I haven't yet. Lord knows some have tried to get HP to kick me off.
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Wonder when that will happen to me
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  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  When you're so repulsed at the stupidity that identifying the idiot by name is so satisfying it is worth the ban.
  
  Speaking only for myself, of course.
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I already did that multiple times on a thread the last 2 days Maybe the team saw that it was necessary too.
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Hold on a minute Tex. That ending part was a bit 'Randyish' doncha think?
  
  (Ha! wait till I tell Randy I have turned him into a verb. He's now keeping company with Judge Bork.)
  
  Anyway lobobrandon, Let me offer a spectator's perspective. I have watched two folks who ardently believe what they are saying. In this case, only one can be right, but it is not like, (at least as I have seen it), you are arguing with someone claiming the full moon is the noon sun.
  
  Tolerance is a virtue.
  
  GA
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I enjoyed reading this response.
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Then my mission is complete ;-)
  
  GA
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Hot damn PrettyPanther! I know just what you mean.
  
  I once received a 24 hour ban, (still pissed me off), for replying with a meme of laughing characters to a poster, (he posted really ridiculous, (in my opinion) stuff) who claimed folks in the forum respected his truths. (as outrageously presented as they were)
  
  In the end, I had to accept that, even as much as I thought the poster deserved it, my response was rude. I learned from it, (I think).
  
  GA
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  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Well, ya know, sometimes it's just worth it.
  
  For us less evolved types, anyway. lol
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  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  You too? I never would've thought. You're so reasonable and polite.
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  IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Twice.
  
  Although Im not 100% sure why...
  
  When you're so repulsed at the stupidity that identifying the idiot by name is so satisfying it is worth the ban.
  
  Guilty!
  
  And YES, it is.
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Well, it's good to know I'm in such good company. Guess I do have some things in common with those on the left. Gee, if we lived near each other, I'd suggest we get together so I could buy everyone a drink. I would say going to Puerto Rico would be the best place to meet, but I can't right now. Too many work obligations.
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  See my reply to lobobrandon Islandbites.
  
  GA
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  gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Randy, HELL YEAH. I remember in 1969 during Woodstock, my father ranted about my generation. I, of course, became incensed & told him that each generation is different. Older generations OFTENTIMES forget that they were once...….YOUNG......
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  Sharlee01posted 4 years agoin reply to this
  She is a bad example. Plenty of wonderful intelligent millennials making their way. Hey, one bad apple does not spoil the entire barrel.
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Nope Sharlee01, one bad apple can spoil the barrel.
  
  GA
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  But she isn't a bad apple, is she? I hope this new lot of apples is separated from that old lot. Some of those are really starting to rot.
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  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  An idealistic young person who wants to battle a corrupt system is characterized as "a bad apple."
  
  Crazy.
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Nope, she's just a green apple. And I think you are right about that "rot."
  
  GA
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  Sharlee01posted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, you just had to remind me... LOL On bad apple can spread rapidly throughout a barrel. Especially in a perfect climate.
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  Sharlee01posted 4 years agoin reply to this
  "Is AOC proof that millennials could be America's dumbest generation?" No, it only shows a handful of them that are very ill-educated to the facts of why America is the greatest country in the world. Our history shows that there has always been a segment of our citizens that have very unrealistic views and express their ideas poorly. I will admit, and this is only my opinion. AOC, is a real doozy... LOL
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  "No, it only shows a handful of them that are very ill-educated to the facts of why America is the greatest country in the world ..."
  or to the benefits of freedom from tyrannic control created by giving the government way too much power over our pocket books.
  
  Only the ignorant think she is wonderful and I can't believe there are so many ignorant people that she was actually ELECTED to public office!!!!!!!!
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  Sharlee01posted 4 years agoin reply to this
  We are in agreement
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  The future hold much entertainment.
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  Sharlee01posted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, it does. Hopefully, the Dems continue down the path they have chosen. It will provide many laughable moments.
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Live to Learnposted 4 years ago
I don't think our kids are stupid. Easily led, speaking without thinking, that's a trait of our young. That's been true as long as I can remember. But, I do believe they possess critical thinking skills and AOC is proving herself to be a flash in the pan whose rock star status is fast fading.
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Readmikenowposted 4 years ago
What I think is disturbing is how AOC and her followers actually believe the Green New Deal has merit. They know so little about history.

"According to one survey, one third of Millennials believe President George W. Bush killed more people than Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin. Over 40 percent of Millennials have never heard of Mao Zedong; another 40 percent and 30 percent, respectively, are unfamiliar with Vladimir Lenin and Che Guevara. Two-thirds of Millennials cannot identify Auschwitz, and 22 percent have never heard of the Holocaust, twice the percentage of American adults on average."

Remember the old saying from George Santayana "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." This is why they make me so nervous.
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Is that why we're pulling down statues of people we deem to have been on the "wrong" side? So we can just forget the whole thing?
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Good question.
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  Tim Truzy info4uposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  It's important to note: Those who know their history also tend to repeat it. I do believe we have a problem with our youth, but I think they will probably learn in time.
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  IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  "Wrong"? That's interesting.
  
  No surprise, though.
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  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I noticed that, too.
  
  As for this OP, I think it's a violation of more than one Logical Fallacy.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  It is, but the Right loves this kinda crap, think Fox News..
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  Tim Truzy info4uposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, running in a circle can make you dizzy.
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Don't recall any statues of Northern generals being pulled down, do you? Have any Northern military officers been vilified, even if they owned slaves?
  
  We're hiding the fact (or trying to) that a large percentage of our country believed in, and practiced, slavery. Refusing to honor great people because of that one (sometimes only perceived) belief.
  
  That won't change history; it will only change our perception of history and leave us open to repeating it.
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  promisemposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  No, people are objecting to monuments of leaders from racist states that started a terrible war and nearly destroyed the country, all for the sake of defending slavery.
  
  "Sometimes only perceived" and "refusing to honor great people" are excellent examples of how slavery apologists "perceive" the Civil War.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I don't honor my slave owning ancestors for their misdeeds, Dan.
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  And do you honor them for anything else? Did they help the poor, found a city, build a great business or exhibit great courage and strength? It is a rare person that is perfect in all matters...especially when they live long ago when "perfect" had a distinctly different meaning.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  My great-grandfather was an overseer on a slave plantation right before the Civil War began. He fought in the conflict and later became a preacher. I suppose he was a good man, but he still remained a racist until he died. I honor him because he was my ancestor, not because of the man's actions here on earth. So you tell me...
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Well, that's a difference between us. Being an ancestor is not something worthy of honor, in my mind. Being an (honest) preacher, CAN be though. Depending on the person and how they approach the task.
  
  Even racism, something I detest, is often insufficient to decide that a person is worthless and of no value; someone totally unworthy of honoring for their other actions. As I mentioned, I see precious few people that are perfect in all matters, and do recognize that people of the past did not share all of my concepts of right and wrong. That doesn't make them evil; it makes them a product of a different culture.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree, Dan. Anyone not realizing enslaving other human beings for their own needs is wrong, doesn't merit my respect. One would have to be an imbecile not to know it was wrong...or believe in the Bible.
  
  And I've never met an "honest" preacher.
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  LOL There have likely been more societies over the millenia that enslaved people than not. It has certainly NOT been uncommon in mankinds history, and is not today. The bible dig is just one such "historical" reference. So is the treatment of women in much of the world, or children.
  
  I have. A few, actually. And I've met many that are most definitely not.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I wouldn't laugh out aloud because there were other countries enslaving human beings in the past as we have less than two centuries ago. Uncommon or not doesn't make it something to be proud of as many still are today.
  
  My mother still flies the Confederate Battle Flag every day and my brother attends SCV(Son's of Confederate Veterans) reenactments all over the country almost every month. They still use the "N" word frequently and are naturally Trump fans. The legacy lives on despite my efforts to enlighten both.
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Fairly recent slavery something to be proud of? No. Even though it is still common today, no. But is there nothing between instant, complete vilification of anyone, anytime and under any circumstances keeping slaves and recognition that in other ways they might have been OK or even great?
  
  What is your overall opinion of, say, Thomas Jefferson and George Washington? Benjamin Franklin and Patrick Henry? The Cherokee Nation and Comanches? The Creek and Uroth peoples? The Pawnee and Klamath Indians as well? Henry Clay and John Hancock? Sam Houston and Andrew Jackson? Montezuma? Plato and Martha Washington?
  
  Some of the most revered names from American and world history - are they all automatically evil because their culture condoned slavery and they owned slaves?
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, all of those people couldn't be wrong, could they?
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  If a preacher is also someone who gives a sermon in church. I've met quite a few who were honest. Not all of course.
  
  I agree with Dan in the sense that it was a product of a different culture. It was wrong but it was the norm. The same way men in the past in most cultures treated women as inferior. There are no men worthy of respect in history in this sense.
  
  I follow this principle: respect someone for their work not who they were as human beings. I can give you a non political example. I respect elon musk for his contributions to science. I do know that he's not the best dad or husband or employer. But saying he does not deserve respect for his contributions is foolish imo.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Don't get me wrong, Brandon. I do have respect for their surviving a very trying time in America's early years, starting in the 1600's for this particular branch of the family, but I cannot overlook the bad things done in the name of a god of some sort, just like ancient priests convincing their followers to sacrifice their virgin daughters to quell a volcano's eruptions.
  
  Ignorance is not an excuse in these cases.
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Ignorance is never an excuse for things that affect someone other than yourself. That's definitely not what I meant. What I was trying to say is this: you can respect a certain contribution by someone without rpespecting the individual.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Kinda like, "Even thought OJ was a murderer, he could still run fast"
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  He was a fast runner and if you want to be a runner you could use his achievements as a beacon. But yes most people are too naive to be able to separate a feat from an individual so this can be a dangerous point of view.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Or, "Michael Jackson may have been a child molester, but he sure could dance."
  
  I understand...
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  lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Yes exactly. I personally would like to learn to moon dance like Michael Jackson. I know there are others who would love to enable to keep a crowd going like him. He was a great musician no doubt about that. He is also a monster. The two qualities are not intertwined.
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  Tim Truzy info4uposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Does some good qualities subtract from the monster. Adolph Hitler was a brilliant idiot.
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Oddly, I have heard that statement. From a black person in my employ some years back.
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  "From a black person in my employ some years back."
  
  That was a necessary detail?
  
  GA
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Yes. Because of Randy's implication the statement was indicative of white racism.
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  It should never be overlooked. Which is what we're doing as we bury history and remove references to it from our common knowledge. Read a report about a teacher refusing to teach about Thomas Jefferson...because he owned slaves. What about teaching it anyway, along with the concept that doing great things does not excuse doing bad things? That people we look up to are not always what they seem, and are not perfect in any case?
  
  But understanding and overlooking are two very different things, for ignorance really is an excuse in many things. The deathly fear of witches, for example, and the killing of innocent people as a result; we know better, but those people then (the commoner in the street) did not. They honestly thought they were doing the right thing. So did the guards keeping that sacrificial virgin "safe" for the ceremony. The priest, maybe or maybe not, but the common man was truly ignorant.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  This type of ignorance is still alive and well around here, Dan. I know you may not realize it but I can easily prove my assertions if you want to come down here for a visit. Practice up on your racist remarks if you want to fit in and not be considered an outsider. They already know I'm one...
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, I get that! I fully believe that racism is alive and well in pockets of the US in spite of the enormous progress we've made in the area. I also fully believe that the large majority of those people know full well that what they are doing is wrong. (To be completely fair and objective, just how much of that racism is required to fit in where those people live and how much would they exhibit in a different setting?)
  
  I just don't see that such crap is pertinent to a discussion of whether those people from far off lands or far off time, when the common belief was that slavery was right, also knew they were morally wrong. Or should be judged by modern US moral codes. Any judging of their "honorable" status should be made with their codes in mind.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Apparently folks know it's wrong now, but don't care. Just like they did back then. I do believe they felt they were superior to black or brown people and were to act as such for the good of the ignorant slaves. Also just like now...
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  IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Alabama newspaper editor calls for return of the KKK to ‘clean out DC’
  
  “Time for the Ku Klux Klan to night ride again,” the first line of the editorial reads. “Democrats in the Republican Party and Democrats are plotting to raise taxes in Alabama.”
  
  "This socialist-communist ideology sounds good to the ignorant, the uneducated, and the simple-minded people," he added.
  
  When asked about it by the Montgomery Adviser, Sutton repeated his writings, saying, “if we could get the Klan to go up there and clean out D.C., we'd all been better off.”
  
  "We'll get the hemp ropes out, loop them over a tall limb and hang all of them," Sutton said.
  
  He defended himself by saying he was “not calling for the lynchings of Americans.”
  
  “These are socialist-communists we're talking about,” Sutton said.
  
  He went on to compare the KKK to civil rights group the NAACP, saying the violence of the white supremacist hate group was justified.
  
  "A violent organization? Well, they didn't kill but a few people," Sutton said. "The Klan wasn't violent until they needed to be."
  
  SMH
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  As I said....visit the Deep South and wake the hell up if you don't believe racism is still alive and well in America.
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  Tim Truzy info4uposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I saw that about the GMplant and use of "Dan." What's up with that?
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  "It was wrong but it was the norm."
  
  Almost. Change it to "It was wrong in our eyes but not in the people of the time" and you're a lot closer. We do not have a lock on morality today, and in a couple of hundred years people are really going to question many of our actions and beliefs in the same manner we question those of our ancestors.
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  That's what I said - let's forget that it all happened and pretend there was never any slavery or war over that slavery.
  
  Or, let's completely vilify anyone that declined to change their way of life because someone else wanted them to, wanted to destroy the entire economy of the South.
  
  Either one is a major mistake.
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  Tim Truzy info4uposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  History is written by the victors. That's a fact. The victors don't have to honor dishonorable people. They were traitors against the U.S., their "country," (I'm not interested in that "state was great nonsense). Do we honor Benedict Arnold?
  People like Lee took an oath to defend the U.S., even training at U.S. military installations. But he told the president he wouldn't fight the war for him. In how many ways can we say traitor.
  Contextualize the statues. Put the traitor beside the faithful union soldier. It's about country as well as the topic of slavery. The extreme right gets phony on this topic. Or pull the traitors down. Why dishonor Union soldiers?
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Were you sad when Saddam's statues were pulled down?
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Good point. But were those statues erected by a nation honoring his service or by Saddam himself, promoting his power during his reign? Giant posters of Kim or Mao come to mind in that regard.
  
  Makes a difference, at least in my mind.
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Perfect analogy Randy. We'll forget it was another country and from a dictator and occurred after an invasion of the United States military. Saddam Hussein is the exact same thing as a general from the Confederacy fought during the civil war. There is not difference at all. Now, do you know the meaning of the word sarcastic?
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, sorta like your OP, right?
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wmhoward4posted 4 years ago
She is just one lucky idiot.
On the other hand there are people her age doing wonders in medicine, cyber security, and flying super sonic jets with more on the dashboard than we had in Mission Control to the Moon or even the Space Shuttle.
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Live to Learnposted 4 years ago
I can't believe this conversation degraded within the very first page.

Our nation's history is what it is. You cannot change it. You cannot erase it. Instead of tearing down monuments we should use them for learning moments.

The racists of today are the ones tearing down monuments. I suppose, fifty years from now, if any are erected in their honor our kids will consider tearing those down. Hopefully, at that time, sanity will prevail; and history won't repeat itself.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Well....I never! (flounces away)
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  OK Nancy. Good one.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, Kelly Anne!
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I wasn't referring to Nancy Pelosi. Just Nancies in general.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I was referring to Kelly Anne Conways in general.
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  LOL. I'll be honest. You are so off base there it would be insane to be insulted. You need to hit closer to home.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Not trying to insult, simply playing the game...
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  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  So, just to be sure I understand, you're saying that those who believe we should not honor the confederacy with statues are racists?
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I'm saying Antifa and the lawless mobs are racist. Judging by the slurs they shout.
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  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Huh, they shout racially based slurs while taking down confederate statutes? Where did you see/hear/read this?
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  No. They yell racist slurs while beating up gentlemen of Hispanic heritage. I didn't say they were yelling it while removing the statues. You don't have to self identify yourself a racist with every word to be recognized as a racist.
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  Tim Truzy info4uposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Of course, P.P. and we should honor Nazi Germany in the process. Some of their descendants live here, too.
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  promisemposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Merriam-Webster definition of "monument":
  
  "A lasting evidence, reminder, or example of someone or something notable or great."
  
  I agree with you that we can't change our history, and I also agree with you that we shouldn't erase it. But I don't believe monuments honoring the leaders of a slavery war is the way to do it.
  
  Instead, we can protect our history with books, classes, documentaries, historical parks and other means.
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  We've got bigger problems than just statues.
  
  "According to one survey, one third of Millennials believe President George W. Bush killed more people than Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin. Over 40 percent of Millennials have never heard of Mao Zedong; another 40 percent and 30 percent, respectively, are unfamiliar with Vladimir Lenin and Che Guevara. Two-thirds of Millennials cannot identify Auschwitz, and 22 percent have never heard of the Holocaust, twice the percentage of American adults on average."
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  promisemposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. Ignorance and propaganda are rampant among large parts of the country.
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  The problem is these people with this little knowledge and understanding of the world are in positions of power in the government and can't comprehend they could be wrong. That is why something as ridiculous as the "Green New Deal." occurs and there are people who take it serious. Frightening what will be considered in the future.
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  promisemposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Frankly, I'm not too concerned about AOC. She is a young, inexperienced and new to Congress.
  
  She's a flash in the pan until she comes up with a lot more substance. To paraphrase you, we have politicians who are bigger problems than AOC.
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  All of those can be skewed easily. Just like what people think of monuments. I like Monument Ave in Richmond. I think a statue of Martin Luther King should be erected. To show a progression of history. I don't think they have one. I know there's one for Arthur Ash there.
  
  I think the better thing to do would be to put monuments of civil rights leaders beside the civil war people. It would generate a great conversation for those viewing them.
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  promisemposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Monument Boulevard is a good example. The community recently debated whether to pull those monuments down and decided against it.
  
  Although I made the point against monuments honoring leaders of a slavery war, I think whether they stay up or come down is a community decision. Outsiders don't have a say.
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Wholeheartedly agree there. Open and honest dialogue prior to a decision by the community.
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I hope you realize removing monuments has gotten out of hand by those on the left. In Pittsburgh, they removed a statute of Stephen Foster. He had nothing to do with the Civil war and wrote music. Stephen Foster. Think of how ridiculous it is to remove a statute of Stephen Foster.
  
  https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CH … mp;bih=597
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  promisemposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Do you agree or disagree that a community has the right to put up or take down any monument they want?
  
  That said, I read the following from your link. I wonder if the black community rather than the left was the most strongly opposed to the monument.
  
  "The statue had stirred controversy for years because it depicts Foster standing with a black man playing a banjo at his feet. Critics have described it as racist and demeaning to blacks."
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Did you see the statue? Do you know who the critics were? So, tell me, a statue that has been in place for 74 years and goes relatively unnoticed and doesn't insult anyone, suddenly does. Leftists start taking down civil war statues, the leftists in Pittsburgh have no civil war statues, but they want to join the cause, so, they tear down a statue of Stephen Foster, that had been in place for 74 years. It was ridiculous.
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  promisemposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Mike, do you agree or disagree that a community has the right to put up or take down any monument they want?
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Technically no, a community does not have the right to put any monument they might wish to. The first amendment has been interpreted to deny that.
  
  But in the context here, they likely do. That doesn't make it any less foolish or ridiculous, though.
  
  Beyond that, should a court decide that the action either way was racist (erect or remove), it might be an interesting case. Certainly if Foster were black and the boy any race at all it is highly doubtful that it would have been torn down - it seems entirely racist, then, to decide that only people of caucasian descent will not be permitted to be in monuments with other races. Or that people of African descent shall never be placed lower on the monument than any other race, or lower than just caucasians (the US flag is never lower than others, for instance).
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  When "critics" actively search for something, anything, to be upset about they will find it. A black man playing with Stephen Foster, the "father of American music" is sufficient to some.
  
  Any racism was from the critics, not the monument.
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  Tim Truzy info4uposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  What's missing from this conversation is the fact that everyone wasn't allowed a say in whether to erect these statues to begin with. Most of them were erected during the Jim Crow era, so you want to give those who didn't have a choice another opportunity to know they don't have a choice.
  Let a community vote on it and then contextualize the thing. Why glorify one part of history and ignore another?
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Onusonusposted 4 years ago
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Onusonusposted 4 years ago
More pearls of wisdom from Democrat Sarah Palin.
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Live to Learnposted 4 years ago
She did a pretty good job of siphoning a million dollars out of 2 PACs and into an LLC to hide campaign contributions.

I'd say she is now as dirty as any politician in Washington. She appears to be a quick learner.
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Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years ago
Its obvious to most people that she has been coached. I perceive she is sincere and ready to step into the scene for the good she can do. She just doesn't know what GOOD is.

Its a pity.

- she wants to help, but has no idea how to do it.

Her sincerity will get her far ...
But her ignorance will, in the end, drown her.
She will not float this one out ...
unless the water of ignorance continues to flood the land.
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catalystmuseposted 4 years ago
IT is sad! She doesn't even know the three branches of government!
See for yourself on you tube.

Your thoughts on HOW she got elected?

-Catalyst
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Live to Learnposted 4 years ago
Her election probably falls into the category of you can fool some of the people some of the time.
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Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years ago
She reminds me of Megan Markel. Megan wanted to be like Diana. Alexandria wants to be like ...

?
Megan?
https://twitter.com/KensingtonRoyal/sta … gr%5Etweet
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  ... championing the causes she's passionate about.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  OR "Globalist in action pushing the #NWO and indoctrinating young people. It rings a bell....." (random twitter comment)
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catalystmuseposted 4 years ago
I do agree. However, lets not focus on "the millennials" rather who is going to be wealthy
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Does it make a person dumb to be able to create wealth? Is it a crime somehow to do so?
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I don't get their hatred of the rich. I just don't get it.
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Is AOC proof that millennials could be America's dumbest generation?

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Is AOC proof that millennials could be America's dumbest generation?

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