Let's Be TRUTHFUL HERE

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   gmwilliamsposted 4 years ago

   
   Do you believe that there should be a grassroots party in America that speaks for the American people?  It seems that the Democratic & Republican Parties don't care about the concerns of Americans.  The Democratic & Republican Parties are totally out of touch regarding the socioeconomic & other concerns of the American people.  The Democrats & Republicans are bought & paid for.   Let's go further here,  the American people have to learn to be responsible for themselves socioeconomically.  The American people have to learn to take care of themselves & not depend upon the government to do it.   Democrats & Republicans say to the American people what they need to say to...…..GET ELECTED, nothing more, nothing less...….

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   1. 0

      Stevennix2001posted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Sounds about right.

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      1. 84

         gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you.

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   2. 55

      The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Constitutionally Article 1.2.1s reading The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature that Amendment 17s giving We The People the election rights of Senators require Electors to select people for Senators and Amendment 12s The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate does not allow for parties. Therefore, what we need to do is follow the instructions in the United States' Constitution and eliminate parties and Presidential Conventions. Via the parties all Congressman, the President and Vice can be bribed as they are now. That is why Trump is still president, all Congressman know by being elected via a party they are bribed.

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      1. 95

         wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         The constitution does not mention parties.  It does not, then, deny party affiliation - it just dot not require it.

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         1. 55

            The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            By the means the Constitution has for electing written in Italics in my first post for ...
            
            Representatives - the Electors go to another state and find people for the people of the district they are to represent doesn't permit parties when read with that understanding of what is written there.
            
            Senators - are no longer elected by the state's governments are to be elected by the same means as Representatives.
            
            Presidents and Vices - the Electors from each state choses people for President and Vices and one must be from another state then people of each state elects one President and one Vice and send their names, including the losers', to Washington before the Primary and General national elections doesn't leave room for parties nor conventions.

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            1. 95

               wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               None of which has a thing to do with potential party affiliation.  I understand you say it does, but it doesn't.  Your claim would include such things as a dozen people promoting one person, or even a husband/wife team campaigning.

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                  The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  Please explain how the Constitution's method of electing provide room for parties in details please.

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                  1. 95

                     wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     It does not deny them.  That leaves room for parties to exist.  Pretty simple.
                     
                     The constitution of the United States does not specify everything that is possible to the people - that would have required a special kind of insanity of the writers to think they knew everything that people would do one day.  Instead it lays down some pretty general rules and denies the federal government the ability to do some things, such as approve a state religion.
                     
                     Can you define what a political party is, in reference to your claim?  Is it anything more than two people promoting one of them?  More than a hundred?  A million?  Can you point to those limits in the constitution, or does it make no difference how many people are promoting a candidate?

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                     1. 88

                        MizBejabbersposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        Elijah, one of the things I was taught about law from my Code Revisor boss was that if the written law DID NOT FORBID IT, it WAS PERMITTED. The Constitution does not have to provide for political parties in order for them to be permitted because it does not make them illegal. Ask a lawyer or a judge.

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                        1. 68

                           awareposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           I am a registered independent the two parties give me  two a hose to pick from and no matter which a whole  I pick one of those two a-holes are going to call me  a ahole for it .and not let my a-hole do their job ..#politicalsatire

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                           1. 88

                              MizBejabbersposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                              The Constitution also does not forbid independents. I thought that went without saying.

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                        2. 55

                           The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           Since a party is the separation of... and the intent of the Constitution is to Unite the States, people, laws and polices here in America it was forbidden by the Preamble's first objective to be accomplished by this nation.

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                     2. 55

                        The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        Where does it leaves room for parties to exist is what I asked you for when I said Please explain how the Constitution's method of electing provide room for parties. Will you please explain that after reading the Constitution's Article 1.2.1 and Amendment 12. I have given you what's written that disallow them, now you show me using it to prove there is room for their existence.
                        
                        Politics mean making making laws or policies, a political party is a group of policy makers favoring one set of laws or policies that another group opposes.
                        
                        Any group supporting a candidate is just a supporter of candidate "X" and not a particular set of laws or or policies. Get you head back on your shoulders, please.

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                        1. 95

                           wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           As it does not deny the existence of political parties they are fine.  What you gave did NOT deny that possibility, so parties are fine.
                           
                           Political parties are not a set of laws or policies (except what they make up internally for whatever candidate they endorse).  Unless you think there is a federal law defining the Democratic and Republican and Tea parties that currently exist?  I ask what makes a party and you reply something about a set of laws, but there are none.  Get you head back on your shoulders, please.

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                           1. 55

                              The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                              A group of policy makers favoring one set of laws or policies that another group opposes is the definition of Political Party.

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         2. 88

            MizBejabbersposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            Exactly, Wilderness. All that Article I, sec. 2, subsec. 1 says is that the people will elect the representatives every two years (Electors = voters) and those voters in the federal election shall have the same qualifications as the state requires voters to have for its elections. In other words, the Feds and the state can't place different qualifications on their voters. Even our forefathers who drafted that Constitution had political parties.

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            1. 55

               The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               You are correct about Article 1.2, MizB. I remember your saying some place else that (Electors = voters) and find that is correct.
               
               But in Amendment 12's The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate indicates some Electors from each state are to seek presidential and vice candidates for which the entire state's citizens would elect one of each candidate then send both the winners and losers' votes to the Senate for a recount, is how I understand the foregoing.
               
               Therefore, since neither a Representatives' nor Senators' first election are to be a citizen of the state they are to represent Electors has to first find Representatives and, since Amendment 17, Senators for the people to elect them.

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               1. 88

                  MizBejabbersposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  Amendment 12 establishes the Electoral College. Under Amendment 12, those electors of the electoral college do NOT beat the bush in other states looking for candidates. They vote upon candidates established in the presidential primaries, whether they are established party candidates or independents.
                  one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; I believe this means that the candidates for Pres. and Veep shall not be from the same state. This is an attempt to eliminate a state party machine. (Lawyers, please correct me if I am wrong.)
                  and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, They send in their certified votes (to the President of the Senate). Where their votes (not the popular vote) will be officially counted and majority winners are declared. Only if there is no winner by a majority, the top candidates, no more than three, are voted on by the House of Representatives.

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                     The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     Allow me to paraphrase into today's English for you.
                     
                     The Voters shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, at least shall not be an inhabitant of their state; (means they myst first seek the candidates) they shall name in their ballots the person(s) voted for as President and on different ballots the person(s) voted for as Vice-President. That reading allows for 50 different presidents and vices to be sent to congress before the general election or there need to be a national Constitutional Convention, using internet, for the entire nation to correct the ambiguousness of it.
                     
                     They shall make a distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, (which means you have chosen several people for both presidents and vices) and of the number of votes for each with a list they shall sign and certify sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted; The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed. If no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, (meaning there could have been 50 presidential an vice candidates) the House of Representatives shall choose by ballot immediately the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President. The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
                     
                     That is my understanding of it with the first part being before the national Primary. Then the later is done after the primary and general elections.

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      2. 88

         MizBejabbersposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         What do you propose to do with the electoral college, Elijah?

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            The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            Where does The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate show an Electoral college? Please explain that to me after reading the remainder of Amendment 12, please.

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               MizBejabbersposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               When the Constitution is amended, that amendment applies to a specific article and section of the original Constitution and has the same effect as if it had been drafted into the original. The 12th Amendment created the Electoral College to amend Article II, Sec. 1. No one can legitimately argue that it does not apply.
               If you want to argue that it doesn't apply, then you will have to argue that slavery is still legal, that a black person only counts as 3/5 of a person, no woman can legally vote, bearing arms is illegal, and citizens do not have freedom of speech, just to name a few examples. All those rights were created in amendments after the original Constitution was drafted and signed.
               You need to remember two things: the Constitution was hurriedly drafted to glue the nation together, and that some things were left out to placate certain states so they would sign. Corrections and supplements were made in the form of amendments later.

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                  The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  Interpret for me how my foregoing post of the entire Article 12 reveals the electoral college please, MizBejabbers, I don't find anything in the original Article 2 either.

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