The 'existential threat' which now appears to be not so urgent has me wondering.
What are the chances she will hold onto these, hoping for large gains in the Senate in the upcoming election and then shove them forward if Trump wins re-election?
What we are now witnessing is the most dangerous behavior I've seen in my lifetime. The democrats seem hell bent on ignoring precedent, separation off powers, ideas on fair play and such a total lack of common decency. I've never seen such power hungry behavior or a public so blinded by bias as to ignore it.
That has been my thought as well. I also agree that we have never in our history seen such action, with a relatively small group of people deciding that they will run the country as they please, using any and all machinations of our constitution as necessary. The ends justifies the means, in their apparent opinion, and they will do exactly as they please.
Wait until a democratic POTUS takes office. Then you'll be concerned with him abusing his power, but if Trump escapes with his extortion of the Ukrainen then you cannot complain. You don't seem to know what a "precedent" Trump is trying to set.
Not half the "precedent" Dem's are setting as they throw the entire weight of the government at their worst election nightmare. When the power of the House is used simply to eliminate opposing election candidates the end is nearing fast. Political power has taking priority over running our country, and it cannot end well. For anyone, Democrat, Republican or "I don't care".
They don't care. The end justifies the means to those who support this travesty.
Are you suggesting they let Trump get away with abusing his power?
Better than stepping outside the Constitution and abusing their own power! What's next - using the FBI as an assassination tool for whoever they don't like? Don't sneer - when the House exhibits the kind if performance they are, that could be next. All those stupid memes about Hillary's political opponents ending up dead could become reality. It hasn't happened in this country in large numbers...yet...but it certainly has in others when power is abused to the extent the House is abusing theirs.
Honestly? I thought Obama thought he was a king but would have never supported impeachment.
Did he try to bribe a foreign ally with govt money to meddle in the election? Or something similar? As Sandy said, whatever it takes for you to cope.
We have a confession by Biden he did that. We have a call by Trump that doesn't support the allegation. But, in true left tradition you appear to believe if you say a lie long enough you'll convince others it isn't a lie.
Who was Biden's political opponent in that deal, LTL? Or are you going to pretend it was not a US policy mission sponsored by the Republicans as well as the EU to remove the corrupt prosecutor?
It definitely wasn't US policy for Trump to try to extort the Ukraine for anything, especially not investigating his political rival. You already know this of course but are trying so hard to act as though it doesn't matter. And failing miserably, I might add..
The thing I find odd is Trump says he didn't attempt extortion, bribe or require quid pro quo....the Ukraine president makes the same statement...but that isn't good enough. You just assume, with no solid proof that two heads of state are lying because you aren't hearing what you want to hear.
And, quite frankly, anyone who considered Biden a presidential contender was pretty stupid. So, even if I couldn't see a valid reason to request an investigation I still wouldn't see it as Trump trying to get dirt on an opponent.
Even if he were, why would you care? You supported Hillary's behavior. Is it ok for her but not Trump? I don't think it's ok for anyone, that's why I think so little of Hillary.
You have summed it up well. I can agree I have never witnessed such a huge party meltdown. It's clearly unprecedented, dangerous, and I have to say embarrassing.
OMG, your outrage is noted. "The most dangerous behavior you've seen in your lifetime"?
You two do have a vivid imagination and flair for the dramatic. Whatever helps you cope, I suppose.
Lol. Sounds like a pot trying to pretend a kettle exists.
Fair point. One of us is upset that a lying, crooked, bully might get away with abusing the power of the presidency and the other is upset that the Democrats are doing their constitutionally ordained duty to hold him accountable.
Right! Their "constitutional duty" is to vote for impeachment then withhold it from the Senate until that body knuckles under and agrees to repeat the farce that produced the impeachment vote in the first place. For sure, that's their "constitutional duty" - to dictate how and what the Senate does!
Oh, pleazzzz, it's not like they blocked a Supreme Court appointment for over a year or anything. Sheesh. It's been what, three days? Get a grip, man.
Indeed, damn them for doing their constitutional duty!
Yep. I am confident that history will be unkind to Trump and his devorees, just as it was to Nixon and his hangers on.
Documentaries will show video of him and his fans at rallies, laughing when he mocks a grieving widow or disabled reporter and cheering when he disparages war heroes like John McCain.
They'll quote Trump supporters saying that the children in cages deserved their fate and Trump is an honest man who cares about his country more than himself. They'll lay out his lies and deranged tweets and his disturbing letter to Speaker Pelosi as evidence of his mental illness. It will be similar to watching video.of Bundy groupies proclaiming his innocence. Viewers will wonder how seemingly normal people could be attracted to such disgusting behavior.
It won't be pretty. Mark my words.
If things keep in the direction they are going I don't doubt that history books will be as full of lies as the democratic party is today. After the great purge you will support the reeducation camps. You'll make excuses for the food shortages and the homeless. You've had enough practice making excuses for the homeless already in America today. That's the mo of the democrats. Ruin things, beggar people and blame everyone else for for failures.
Lol! Everything I mentioned has actually happened. You're making $hit up, i.e., "Trumping it."
[sorry for stealing your phrase, Randy. It fits.]
I do pity us. We are at a juncture where the left is completely disconnected from reason and reality. I won't make up catch phrases I think are witty. I'll just shake my head and hope you stop following blindly and wake up.
Oh. And I've decided to buy land way out in the country just in case this is headed irrevocably in the wrong direction.
It's okay, one of my right-wing friends (now aTrumpeter) warned me Obama was going to confiscate by farm and kill all my goats for food for the masses before his second term was up. No one is safe in the imagination of a fearful conservative.
But, take heart, Obama didn't steal my farm nor did a death panel pull the plug on Grandma so I'm pretty sure you're safe from your current imaginary socialist nightmare.
I laughed at the fear mongering also. Because there was no evidence to support it.
Nancy Pelosi's power grab and the lack of intelligent thought from those on the left leads me to believe there is evidence to worry.
No conservative would ever support this complete disregard for every American value I hold dear.
So, Trump does reflect your values, as I've been saying all along.. Why
didn't you just admit it in the first place?
And plenty of conservatives do support impeaching Trump, those with differing values than Trump or you.
Plenty of democrats do not agree with you. Are you going to attempt to insult them too?
Where I stand, it appears you agree with election meddling, extortion, quid pro quo, and stand against the values most hold dear. Mainly honesty and a sense of fair play. I think the things you turn a blind eye to in order to sate your rage are despicable.
You have gone off the deep end, dear. Truly.
Accusing me of endorsing the behaviors Trump engages in and you defend. How very strange.
Are you.okay? Maybe you should lie down.
That's the point pp. Your point of view is colored by your opinion of the same events others see and have come to a different conclusion.
Your religious like adherence to a blindness to facts is sad. Insulting others until they insult you back doesn't change a fact. And that is what you participate in and have participated in since the tantrum over losing the election first started.
I respect the democratic process. I don't support any who seek to overthrow it because they don't like the outcome.
I respect the office of the president. I have no use for those who support actions meant to undermine another branch of our government.
Saying I am like Trump because of that stand does not reflect poorly on me. It shows your refusal to think rationally and dispassionately.
More nonsense. Please show me where I have shown "an adherence to a blindness to facts." You might want to define that word salad first, though.
Also, I never said you were "like Trump," though I am puzzled why someone who continues to support him as POTUS would find that insulting. Go figure. In any case, I said you were "Trumping it." I guess I should have stuck to my usual "making $hit up." Again, one would think a Trump fan would be pleased to be Trumping it,, since you view his actions as president to be acceptable.. Again, go figure.
As for the rest, I made it through eight years of a horrible Bush presidency which was decided by hanging chads in Florida, without once calling for impeachment, even though I thought his win was more dubious than Trump's. Why? Because he didn't do anything that warranted impeachment. Trump has. Simple as that.I
I know it makes you feel better to think Trump is in this predicament because of a bunch of hateful sore losers because then you can ignore every unethical, criminal, and disgusting thing he has done. Trump never takes responsibility for his predicaments and his followers are right there with him.
Your entire argument over the last few years attests to the religious adherence and dogmatic goose step to the agenda of the left.
As I said. I respect the democratic process and the office of the president. There have been presidents I liked and ones I didn't. I adhere to the principles of our republic. Someone wins, they've got 4 years to show the public what reason we should give them another chance. Then the office is up for grabs again.
The left has made it clear that the democratic process is not good enough for them. They want total power and total secrecy. That isn't good enough for me.
You joined in the insults from the start. Using the goose step catch phrases of 'deplorables' 'lesser educated' etc.
You lost my respect long ago. Failure to think independently is something I frown on. Probably because I do respect the fact that everyone has that ability, some just lack the security of believing in their own judgement and choose to let others tell then what to think and say.
Lol, i have been consistent about Trump from the beginning. I have not wavered in my assessment of him. You, however, initially found him to be unacceptable, but as soon as he became POTUS you have tirelessly defended your man. Who is the goosestepper here?
If you truly respect the democratic process, you would be content to see it play out. If the Democrats have violated the Constitution, as some have claimed, then they should suffer the legal consequences. Otherwise, as we often hear from you Trumpeters, elections have consequences, and the voters elected Democrats to hold Trump accountable and that is exactly what they are doing.
Lies in history books tend to be written by Republicans. Take a trip to Texas, where they rewrite high school history books to reflect their view of American history, removing information about civil rights, slavery, and such.
They rewrite science to include Creationism and demand it be taught in public school.
You really need to get some clear perspective on who is doing what. It's not the left that reinventing the fact. It's the Right.
And here's your President going off on wind:
Just a random link. It just always strikes me that most intelligent people would see this stuff and think to themselves "how could anyone vote for such a person". I mean, if somebody just randomly walked up to me and started talking like this, I'd think they were brain damaged.
Who cares what history thinks about Trump?
This is only about shutting down Trump and regaining power. Once they are back in power they will care less about Trump.
What matters is who gains control of the Democratic Party's soul, right now there is a battle between Democrats that are corporate stooges, corrupt to the core, who are no better than 'Republicans'. And the real progressives, the ones looking to make real change, not give lip service and lies to the people while they fatten their bank accounts.
Ocasio-Cortez has blasted the Republicans, "Oh that's right, almost forgot: GOP works for the corporate CEOs showering themselves in multi-million [dollar] bonuses; not the actual working people whose wages + healthcare they're ripping off for profit."
But she has pointed out that the 'old cronies' in the Democratic Party are no better, the Clintons and Pelosi types as corrupt as any Republican. “Oh God,” she said. “In any other country, Joe Biden and I would not be in the same party, but in America, we are.”
And that's the problem, and until it is resolved, until the Democrats truly stand for making a difference, they are even worse than the Republicans and Trump. At least the Republicans say what they are, and do what they say... the Democrats have been lying about who they were and what they stand for, for a long time now... its time for America to wake up and force the party to change. Out with the old, in with those who really want to make change happen.
Choosing Trump as a change maker is stupid in the greatest sense of the word.You don't elect crooks to get rid of more crooks. And with Trump University, the Trump Foundation, and other unethical deals he's been involved with, it's obvious he's not very astute.
What idiot goes bankrupt owning two casinos? Only Donnie!
Sounds to me like the fact that that are all crooks doesn't phase you.
Could it be more like the "birthers" except on the other side of the fence? Simply a refusal to accept reality in favor of pretending that Democrats don't fit into the "crook" category?
Who on these forums have ever said that there are no crooks among Democrats? I know I don't believe that.
In fact, I have repeatedly asked for evidence of Nancy Pelosi's corruption. You once called her either "corrupt" or "criminal," can't remember which, so I asked for specifics and received no reply. I know I asked Ken the same thing and got no response.
Here is your chance to educate me about the criminality of a leading Democrat.
Nancy Pelosi value 1990 less than 1 million dollars - 2020 - 120 million dollars
https://thehill.com/policy/finance/1665 … 2-percent-
Rep. Nancy Pelosi
The longest-serving House Democratic leader in half a century, Pelosi had never made a salary before being elected to represent San Francisco in 1987. But she had become a major party activist, fundraiser and donor with her successful businessman husband, Paul, who now owns and operates Financial Leasing Services, a California real estate and venture capital investment and consulting firm.
Their holdings include property worth at least $23 million, including a Napa Valley vineyard worth at least $5 million. Paul Pelosi has invested heavily in successful tech stocks including Apple, Disney, Comcast and Facebook.
As a couple, Pelosi and her husband have a combined net worth estimated to be $236 million.
Now, if you think her rise in fortunes to the tune of a couple hundred million, just happens to be luck and good money management, that's fine. But I know that no one goes from just being worth a few million at the most, to well over 200 million, on the up and up.
The Clintons, Biden, Pelosi, they all went from almost no money to being worth hundreds of millions... and you think its legit?
Anyone with even a bit of common sense knows they didn't earn their money through 'normal means', so just how do life long politicians get so rich?
I wasn't able to read the entire article due to prohibited access, but what I did read talked about her husband's stock holdings, particularly in Apple. I didn't see any evidence of corruption. Do you have something to share that connects her and her husband's financial gains to corruption? She is not my representative, but I would still be interested in knowing exactly what illegal activities she engaged in, if any.
Edit: Perhaps she and her husband are merely grateful beneficiaries of Trump's excellent stock market that you all keep referencing. ;-)
It wasn't me who elected a known liar who 'd been sued several times, was a immoral jerk, was a bad businessman, and has more arrogance than anyone.
Did you say, "Hey, he seems to be the guy to solve all of our problems"?
Or did you know nothing at all about his past?
Unlike yourself, I consider murder much worse than shoplifting. And someone selling out his country is the worst sort of crook.
I agree with you that there is a tug-of-war within the Democrat Party between the old guard and those who want real change. I can only hope my fellow Democrat voters will choose Warren, Yang, or Sanders.
Trump is not the guy to effect change. He and his low-life family are nothing more than grifters trying to scrounge every last dollar they can out of his position as president. It would be better to have any democratic candidate in office than Trump. At least there would be some minimum level of competency. Trump is a dangerous mentally ill fool who is quickly diminishing out standing in the world while ransacking our government.
It seems we don't hear the mantra 'elections have consequences' very often from the Right these days. Hmmmm..
I watched a segment on CBS where they were talking to voters in a small town in Ohio. One woman summed it up. When asked about impeachment she said Trump didn't do anything that isn't done in Washington every 15 minutes.
There is the great divide. Many of you have no problem with business as usual with the usual suspects.
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