Impeachment Dem's Going For A Doubleheader...

Jump to Last Post 1-15 of 15 discussions (98 posts)
  1. Sharlee01 profile image85
    Sharlee01posted 6 days ago

    https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/15361272.jpg
    So far it is obvious President Donald Trump is extremely unlikely to resign in the final few days of his presidency.  And VP Pence is equally unlikely to force him out by invoking the 25th amendment of the Constitution, despite calls from the Democrats to do so.

    So, in the wake of last week’s insurrection at the US Capitol, which left five people dead and the Trump White House in free fall, the final option available to Washington lawmakers is to push ahead with a second impeachment. To some, this could appear as a final way to inflict punishment for their perception that in some respects he encouraging the protesters to riot at the Capitol on Jan 6th.

    The House Democrats introduced an article of impeachment against Trump today for “inciting violence against the government of the United States”. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said the Democrats “will proceed” with impeachment proceedings this week if Vice President Mike Pence does not respond to a separate resolution calling for the Cabinet to invoke the 25th amendment.

    What are your feelings on impeaching President Trump in regard to allegations of inciting violence against the government of the United States? Is there evidence that can prove the president intended to incite violence?

    Do you feel there will be any type of fallout if the Dems go-ahead with impeachment proceedings? 

    And lastly and simply, if they go ahead with the impeachment will it further divide the country? 

    President Trump's Jan 6th Rally Speech --- In full
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OXFmnTtO6s

    1. savvydating profile image93
      savvydatingposted 6 days agoin reply to this

      Yes, it will further divide the country and Pence may (choose to) be persuaded to invoke the 25th amendment, given that he is an establishment politician who has the backbone of a worm.

      1. Sharlee01 profile image85
        Sharlee01posted 6 days agoin reply to this

        A very scary, sad time for America...

      2. PrettyPanther profile image84
        PrettyPantherposted 6 days agoin reply to this

        I am not a fan of Pence but the one time he stood up against Trump to defend the Constitution is not the time to describe him as having the backbone of a worm.

  2. GA Anderson profile image92
    GA Andersonposted 6 days ago

    Brett Baier interviewed Democrat Joe Manchin tonight on his views about the impeachment drive.

    I completely agree with him that now is not the time. It will hamper Pres. Biden from a legitimate start of his first 100 days agenda.

    I can only hope more Democrats can be persuaded to Manchin's view.

    Take a look, what do you think?

    https://hubstatic.com/15361457.jpg

    GA

    1. PrettyPanther profile image84
      PrettyPantherposted 6 days agoin reply to this

      I don't know, GA. How bad does it have to get for Trump to suffer real consequences for his behavior? I guess worse than inciting insurrection that resulted in death, for some people. I don't see a trial taking long at all. Everyone has seen most of the evidence already.

      1. GA Anderson profile image92
        GA Andersonposted 6 days agoin reply to this

        I didn't hear Manchin saying Pres. Trump should not be charged if Congress wanted to do it. I understood him to be saying that the action didn't have to happen immediately. I agree with his thoughts that this will sidetrack Pres. Biden's agenda until after the turmoil of another impeachment effort. I certainly don't think this will be the quick execution that the Democrats think it will be. They might be able to get the House to impeach in a few days, but finishing the job will take weeks, if not months.

        Rather than Biden having the opportunity to start his administration with efforts to promote unity and healing, he will have to follow behind another political circus. It is my thought that regardless of how one feels about impeachment, and with the current political environment of our nation's citizens, it will most definitely be a circus.

        At the new administration's launch, the most important time when our politicians should be focused on finding some way to try to work together, it will instead be faced with a political fight that causes even more division by pitting party against party—with no possible middle-ground for either side.

        I don't see it as the most important thing being that Pres. Trump suffer consequences, I see the most important matter being what is best for our nation. And I don't see the new administration starting with another tremendously divisive issue as being the best choice.

        GA

        1. PrettyPanther profile image84
          PrettyPantherposted 6 days agoin reply to this

          Sigh...I don't think the anger surrounding the election will diminish just because impeachment is delayed or doesn't happen, nor do I think a few weeks is very long when you consider the gravity of the situation. Look how much the Clinton administration managed to get done during his lengthy impeachment.

          I understand your position, and in your case, I think your position is based on genuine concern for the country rather than partisan rationalizations. I just tthink, for once, we must take a stand against this ugly, self-serving, brazenly criminal president. Enough!

          1. abwilliams profile image62
            abwilliamsposted 6 days agoin reply to this

            Oh the stand has been taken, it was taken when he came down the escalator to announce his entry into the candidate pool.

            1. PrettyPanther profile image84
              PrettyPantherposted 6 days agoin reply to this

              Yes, I am aware that you have fully embraced every conspiracy theory in defense of the lying seditionist. God will reward you for your "faith" in your idol, right? Are you sure you're on the right side?

              Of course you are.

              1. abwilliams profile image62
                abwilliamsposted 6 days agoin reply to this

                I love you too.

                1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                  PrettyPantherposted 6 days agoin reply to this

                  Sorry, can't say the same to you. I hope you are happy and healthy and have a long, fulfilling life, though.

          2. GA Anderson profile image92
            GA Andersonposted 6 days agoin reply to this

            You are right about my motivation, but we just disagree on the importance and danger of immediate vengeance.

            . . .

            . . .  wait,

            Yes, I did purposely say "vengeance," because that is how I think almost half of our nation will see it. That is also how I see it. It may be considered deserved vengeance, but the pursuit of it now, adding to the serious national problem we already have is wrong. Rather than focus on what we should be doing to move forward, the focus will be on getting our pound of flesh.

            I would compare this Democrat move to that old saying about 'Cutting off your nose just to spite your face,' except that although it may be the Democrats' nose, it is the nation's face.

            His rally and post-election actions have upset me enough to support impeachment, but just not at this juncture. I think it is the wrong priority.

            Unfortunately, I think it is just more of the same ol' politics that brought us to Trump, and to this point. Our politicians, (and us), haven't learned a damn thing. Half our nation is gleeful, and half feel betrayed. So what do the Democrats decide is their first priority? "Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead!'

            GA

            1. Sharlee01 profile image85
              Sharlee01posted 6 days agoin reply to this

              Very well said...    agree, and I too feel your last paragraph hits the mark.

            2. PrettyPanther profile image84
              PrettyPantherposted 6 days agoin reply to this

              Couldn't disagree more. The faster we get it over with, the better and faster  we can move on.

              1. Sharlee01 profile image85
                Sharlee01posted 5 days agoin reply to this

                And you are hopeful we will move on?  "Is it realistic to think all of us? To quote GA --- "Half our nation is gleeful, and half feel betrayed. So what do the Democrats decide is their first priority? "Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead!'"

                1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                  PrettyPantherposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                  First of all, as you are fond of saying, that is just GA's opinion. Second, it is time we stop giving any validation at all to lies and extremists. So what if those who have bought into Trump's fantasy are upset? They are wrong. We should simply do what is right and not validate them because we fear their reaction.

                  1. Sharlee01 profile image85
                    Sharlee01posted 5 days agoin reply to this

                    I quoted GA maybe twice in the past. I am going, to be honest, and as polite as I can.  I have become tired of your loftiness. Read your own comment...  You appear to feel your opinion in some respect should be taken as the last word. It's your last word. "They are wrong" ... Pretty definitive statement in my view. Leave no room or respect for others that disagree.

                    " Just do what's right! "  Yes, we should ignore all Trump supports, so easy, no problem.

                    I must say find your thought process very simplistic in regards to what we have brewing in the country today.

                    Like I said I have no problem moving forward with impeachment if it's lawful, and if it does not stamp on the Constitution. You see I STILL believe in the Constitution.

              2. GA Anderson profile image92
                GA Andersonposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                Your comment, to me, illustrates the point I am trying to make. Trump will be out of office and gone before any impeachment resolution could possibly happen, yet that is not enough for you. Even though it appears that impeachment is possible after he has left office, you must have your vengeance before you can move on.

                GA

                1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                  PrettyPantherposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                  I don't want vengeance. I want him to never be able run for office again. However that happens is fine with me as long as it is legal and right.

                  Vengeance implies I have a personal beef with hum, which I do not. As I have been saying from the beginning, he is a lying, malignant narcissist not fit for office and is dangerous.

                2. ScottSBateman profile image82
                  ScottSBatemanposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                  Your response suggests that Trump bears no responsibility and should face no consequences for the attack on Capitol Hill.

                  1. GA Anderson profile image92
                    GA Andersonposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                    Really?  I can only ask if you have been following this thread at all.

                    Would it matter if I went back and counted the multiple times I have said I could support impeachment, or that I thought Trump incited his rally-goers, or that I thought he needed to be held accountable?

                    If your comment is what you have taken from my comments it probably wouldn't matter at all to bring those things to your attention. It seems you are stuck in that with me or agin' me' mindset.

                    This is clearly an instance where an "I'm sorry, you are right." mea culpa would be most appropriate. Hmm. . . should that come from me, or you?

                    GA

            3. IslandBites profile image88
              IslandBitesposted 5 days agoin reply to this

              Maybe to some it is, but to the rest of us it is about accountability. You agree he incited that violence. He is still in charge. He still has the same rhetoric. There are multiple threats of violence for the days to come.

              Also, again, he is in charge. He is in charge of the DOJ, military and so on. Those are his followers. Do you trust the investigations, do you trust justice will be done?

              Plus, pardons? More "rallies" or worse?

              1. GA Anderson profile image92
                GA Andersonposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                None of your listed worries will be affected by the impeachment effort. Even if he is impeached on 1 day, he is still president and still has those powers until he's convicted and removed from office.

                My point is that you, (you and the "some of us" you speak of), can have your accountability, and your vengeance, and still put the nation's, and Pres. Biden's, needs first.

                I would bet that Pres. Biden, (if only privately), is thinking the same thing. His dash from the starting blocks of his presidency will be bogged down by the drag of the ball and chain of the problems of this impeachment effort.

                He could have the Senate focusing on his nominees, instead, they will be second on the agenda. (No, I do not believe our politicians can chew gum and walk at the same time).

                He could reach for the public's attention, starting from Day 1, with his plans and ideas to address some of what divides us. Instead, he will have to fight for any air time, behind the ongoing impeachment, to grab for just a piece of the public's attention.

                Think about it. The 7 o'clock news is on. What are they going to give the most attention, the slate of nominees presented to the Senate—to consider when they can get around to it, or a blow-by-blow recap of the political impeachment battle on the Senate floor?

                What gets a Senate priority, from Day 1, Garland's AG nomination, or a political sideshow of opening remarks on the Senate floor from all those righteous Democrat leaders that will demand their 15 minutes in the sun? Surely you remember how that played out in the Senate Impeachment trial?

                All the while, our new president will be sitting in the Oval office, stuck in second place in the public's, (and the politicians), attention.

                I don't think he will agree that getting that pound of flesh, now, is more important than getting his nominees in place and on the job.

                GA

              2. Readmikenow profile image98
                Readmikenowposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                I do believe in accountability.  I think those Capital police who let the protestors into the Capital and then opened up a door and let them out should be held accountable.  Maybe something should be done for all of them that posed for selfies with the protestors.

                I think the protestors from the capital should get what the protesters over the summer got...let go. 

                "Prosecutors dismiss looting, rioting charges against hundreds of protesters across U.S."

                https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … es-agains/

                I would like you to point to any part in the speech by President Donald Trump that incites violence.  Everyone on the left has failed this request.

                I trust the Mueller investigation came to the right conclusion.

                Emotions are high right now.  The left thinks when President Donald Trump leave office everything will be just lovely.  They seem to believe those on the right and left will simply join hand and sing Kumbaya and praise biden.

                This won't happen.

                Now, I've said this before and I'll say it again.  This will be just the beginning.  They are trying to punish Trump supporters and silence them.  This is not going to go well.  These are people in the millions.  There are many former military in their ranks.  Do you know what that means?  These are people who know military combat tactics, how to organize, operate the weapons in the US military arsenal, create a chain of command, mission plans and more.  Trust me, the people I was with and met at the rally had quite a bit of combat experience among them.

                If the left doesn't back off and soon.  It is going to get real ugly.  What happened at the Capital will look like good time.  You can't try to punish and silence millions of people without expecting some strong push back.

                So, I think it is up to the left and how they handle things.  If you have millions of people who believe the system fraudulent to keep Democrats in power at all costs.  Things will get real

                1. abwilliams profile image62
                  abwilliamsposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                  I second Mike's challenge for you to "point out where the President incited violence" in his speech. Go!

                2. Credence2 profile image81
                  Credence2posted 4 days agoin reply to this

                  Dems fighting words, Mike.

                  None of us on the "other side" is going to be intimidated by those that seek that the country be ruled by a minority of the populace.

                  The Right is not going to get its way by throwing out paramilitary threats.

                  Is this all about the "True Americans"? Why not cut through all the jumbo jumbo? This has all stemmed as a result of urban centers and ethnic voters nullifying the desire of Trump voters. I can see the frustration of the Right increasing as that influence is going to broaden in the future.

                  My millions say that the Right and their claims are fraudulent, so what of this?

                  The voters have spoken Mike, and in large enough numbers to make the message loud and clear. None of us dare r sist the idea of democracy and majority rule in selecting our leaders or there is going to b a lot more trouble than just the Right becoming indignant.

                  1. Readmikenow profile image98
                    Readmikenowposted 4 days agoin reply to this

                    "None of us dare r sist the idea of democracy and majority rule in selecting our leaders"

                    That is the reason election fraud is such a serious thing.  You say the people have spoken, but I want the legal American citizen, who is alive, and can vote legally to choose the leader of the free world. 

                    I think with the significant amount of fraud that took place during this presidential election, we don't know who spoke. 

                    If the Democrats were smart, and they're not, they would work to gather facts and show the election was fair.  But, they're not going to do such a thing, because it wasn't.  They would have an investigation.  That would go far into calming down the millions of people on the right.  But I don't think they will have such an investigation, because they know it was fraudulent.  They fear the findings of such an investigation.

                    So, again, we have a lackluster president and vice president in office because of fraud.  Have an investigation and prove me wrong.  I doubt it will happen.

            4. Credence2 profile image81
              Credence2posted 5 days agoin reply to this

              This whole affair reeks to high heaven from the outset.

              Trump has lost the election, there is no evidence of voter fraud and his supporters were not interested in a fair election only one that insured that Trump would win.

              Well, GA, for Conservatives and Republicans, the events of the last few days has definitely tarnished the brand.

              I started wanting to let all of this go because of the brevity associated with Trump's administration, but no more.

              Trump, as well as co-conspirators in Congress itself and their rag tag mobs are involved in more than just a riot, based on the symbolism and the danger posed to the national legislative body. This cannot go unpunished. I want mass arrests, vigorous prosecution and maximum penalties. Those legislators to be should be denied their seats and those already part of the body should be expelled.I don't buy the idea that this  rabble are just patriots letting off a little steam. An example needs to be set as the danger is not yet abated due to Biden's upcoming inauguration. Can I really trust Trump to make sure that the lax policing that we saw on January 6th won't occur again?

              I don't care about the "other half", no more than they cared about the other side in 2016. If the other half is truly wanting to win at any cost, why should I care about their opinion?

              I want the hammer brought down with great ferocity if the Right winged rubbish threatens the Republic and our democracy in such a way again.

              In 250 years, never has such an outrage been witnessed by the American people.

              1. GA Anderson profile image92
                GA Andersonposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                You are right Cred, Conservatives and Republicans have been tarnished by this Capitol Hill event. However, after that event, I never wanted to just let it all go. I believe there must be accountability so that ex-president Trump doesn't ride off into the sunset any some credibility left among his supporters.

                He will always have credibility among his hardcore base. I don't think there is anything we can do about that. But I do think time and appropriate accountability will have an effect on most of his non-hardcore supporters. So, we don't disagree on the need for accountability.

                But I do disagree with the rest of your statement. It is an angry demand for retribution, or revenge, or justice—pick whichever description suits you.

                I am glad that the authorities are tracking down and charging all the participants they can identify. Even though I would make a snarky remark about why the same effort wasn't applied to the year's protesters/rioters, (similar video evidence to work with), that doesn't change that I think it is right to go after those they identify as lawbreakers in the Capitol Hill assault.

                "I want mass arrests, vigorous prosecution and maximum penalties. "

                You want your vengeance. Your justice. That is what is most important to you. What if your "want" isn't what is best for the nation, is it still the most important thing in your mind?

                "Those legislators to be should be denied their seats and those already part of the body should be expelled."

                So the voters that put them there can be damned. They did wrong in your opinion—so expel them. It doesn't matter to you that they didn't break any laws, you don't like their actions, so expel them, is that your position? Surprisingly, I agree that some of them don't deserve their seats, but I think that should be the voter's choice, not mine.

                Also, I haven't heard anyone saying those folks were "just letting off a little steam." There probably have been some idiots saying that, but I haven't heard any representative voices saying it.

                Also, I don't think you have to worry about Pres. Trump influencing any lax protection policies. I think his influence on anything is done. I doubt anyone in his administration or any law enforcement agency would follow any orders that diminished protection of the inauguration.

                "I don't care about the "other half", no more than they cared about the other side in 2016. If the other half is truly wanting to win at any cost, why should I care about their opinion?"

                And there you have it. What the nation needs is less important than what you want. Whether it is a fanatic segment or half the nation doesn't matter to you. That ain't right Cred.

                Consider this. If the 'circumstances' were other than Trump-related, (but just as bad), and you could be shown that your desire would cause more harm than help, would you still make the same demand?

                Going back to the starting point of this discussion, my contention is that an immediate impeachment process is more damaging to our nation than a later impeachment. And to dismiss half a nation of citizens because you know' they are wrong is okay because . . . well, they are wrong, is more wrong and selfish than those citizens you are dismissing. It is as simple as that.

                GA

                1. Credence2 profile image81
                  Credence2posted 5 days agoin reply to this

                  I follow your snark, GA, it is just that in over 9000 protests over the past summer from either BLM or Antifa, there were only 25 fatalities. In a matter of hours rightwing violence has produced at least five. Kinda of like comparing apples to handgranades, huh?

                  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ … rest-acled

                  It seems like Trump has a lot credibility with a few more than a just hard core bunch.


                  In this op ed, the FBI defined what occurred on Jaunuary 6th as more than a protest or even riot, it was a terrorist attack. And you have to excuse me if I take the word of the FBI over that of rightwing media.

                  https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 … e-response

                  Article 3  of the 14th Amendment clearly defines what constitutes an assault against the Unit d Stars and I dare to say that terrorism qualifies. Congressmen who are so involved are not to b seated. So, it is not my choice, it is the law. I am not talking about the silly attempts by Republicans to protest the Electors that day, as that is their right. I am talking about those that had a role in the planning, aiding and abetting of the riot participants. They should be just as subject to charges as any physical rioter.

                  Those in these hallowed places are expected to set a better example and should b expelled immediately and replaced by another.

                  This is serious and the Congress would be remiss in not seeking justice that is not revenge and to make sure that this does not happen again. So, no kid gloves.

                  GA, as long as Trump is President, he can and does influence.

                  The Biden administration can and will walk and chew gum at the same time. We can't afford to send a message of leniency to insurrectionists.

                  The nation needs both: justice in pursuit of this breach as well as the Biden administration having a successful rollout.

                  By delaying the process are we condoning or mitigating what has happened? Fair is fair, there are always winners and losers and until now we have always accepted that fact. I find any deviation from that attitude as an inherent danger in itself.

                  1. Readmikenow profile image98
                    Readmikenowposted 5 days agoin reply to this

                    I can't get past " there were only 25 fatalities"  That really got me.

                  2. GA Anderson profile image92
                    GA Andersonposted 4 days agoin reply to this

                    "It seems like Trump has a lot credibility with a few more than a just hard core bunch."

                    I hope not.

                    As for your clarification about which Congressmen you were talking about, I agree with you.

                    You could be right about Pres. Trump still having some influence, but I just don't see it, relative to any actions that would require complicity or cooperation from any other authority or agency. My mental picture is of a frustrated, isolated, and nearly impotent soon-to-be ex-president.

                    Hopefully, you can accept that none of my comments on this subject have ever considered leniency to be any part of what I was advocating. I want and expect accountability—from the top down to the least of the mob that assaulted our Capitol. But what I want more is for the new administration to have the best possible environment for its start. I can wait a short time for my accountability. Especially since I don't see how it would be possible for this issue to be concluded before stepping on weeks of Pres. Biden's first efforts.

                    GA

  3. Readmikenow profile image98
    Readmikenowposted 6 days ago

    I think the Democrats know full well there is not enough time to have a trial in the Senate.  This is political theater.  I would love to have a trial in the Senate.  That means, much of the evidence of the fraudulent election would be able to be discussed in a public forum and put in the public record.  This is something Democrats do NOT want to see happen.  I think it would provide an opportunity to see many things that have been kept from the public.  The Democrats know what they're doing.  The problem is, most Conservatives and supporters of President Donald Trump also know what they're doing.  Protecting such a historic election fraud may be their legacy.

    1. Sharlee01 profile image85
      Sharlee01posted 6 days agoin reply to this

      IMO you pointed out the root of the problem. Simply the Democrats are playing a political card. The well realizes that the media has stirred up the general public, and all eyes are on them. They are whooping up a crowd that wants meat.  However, they are not considering the other half of the country, that are ready to finally say, "we are done with all the games Washington is playing".    They are pitting one side against the other, one of their oldest ploys.

      THis im[eachment is nothing but theater. Factually there is no time to have an impeachment proceeding, and it is very questionable in regard to impeachment after a president can be impeached after they leave the office.

      https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dersho … push-trump

  4. abwilliams profile image62
    abwilliamsposted 6 days ago

    Good Morning Sharlee. I just watched the speech again. The first time I watched it, I watched entirely in solidarity with the President, with the crowd, with the message the day represented....we will not be cast aside, we will not be ignored!
    The next two times, (after talk of impeachment started AGAIN, which can only do more harm to this Nation) I watched in order to scrutinize, to find something... anything, which stood out as hate speech or inciting violence, some coded threat of some sort...it's not there!! It doesn't exist!!
    I believe and (with God's help, it will all come out) that the anti-America fringe groups had it all planned out to disrupt the Capital.
    Yes I believe that some Trump supporters did enter into the Capitol Building, but was it at the point they were allowed in?!
    I don't know if there will be or can be an unbiased investigation.
    I can no longer say with absolute certainty that this is the America where we are ALL innocent until proven guilty.
    Do we ever get our day in court! Do hardened criminals have more rights than a Trump supporter?
    Our first and second Amendment Rights can never be infringed upon.....really?

    I think President Trump has been a lot calmer than I would have been, knowing that computer generated votes disenfranchised voters and the entire process. Knowing that he and his supporters (and those that may not be conservative, but support him and love this Country) were targeted and sabotaged on Jan. 6.
    Knowing that the left is actively working to destroy everything that makes this country great.
    I am beyond frustrated, as I know so many are, I am keeping the faith, while remaining diligent in the fight.

    1. abwilliams profile image62
      abwilliamsposted 6 days agoin reply to this

      .....and for the leftists who reside here, "fight" does not mean I have a plan to go punch someone in the face (even if they deserve it) it simply means that I am in the fight to preserve our rights and to hold on to this Republic that Ben Franklin questioned whether we could or would.

  5. IslandBites profile image88
    IslandBitesposted 5 days ago

    My thoughts on why impeachment is necessary

    GOP colleagues have stated that impeachment is divisive and could cause further violence. I disagree. Allowing President Trump to walk away, validates messianic conspiracy theories and disinformation. It could me more dangerous. Thread
    Denver Riggleman

    QAnon adherents and those who believe “Stop the Steal” conspiracies view this as a vanguard movement of apocalyptic and revolutionary ideology. QAnon is “syncretic” now including fantasies pushed by Flynn, Powell etc— that deep state evil doers are afraid of evidence against them

    A significant part of this conspiracy envisions an all-at-once insurrection (signified by the code: WWG1WGA:” where we go one we go all”) against pedophilic and satanic lawmakers. President Trump, in this fantasy, stands as the man ordained to stop them.

    If there is no accountability for POTUS & allies pushing radical conspiracies, those who believe Trump is the ordained protector will believe the conspiracies true, that he had so much evidence against evil-doers they would not convict him. Future violence could be encouraged

    Impeaching President Trump for his grotesque use of power and language to incite riots, based on coordinated disinformation, will aid in dousing the fire of conspiracy grifters and to show QAnon believers that WWG1WGA was a horrific lie. Impeachment destroys the mirage.

    Lastly, responsibility of leadership is to identify the facts and act in good faith, even when hard. Jan 6th proved that disinformation could destroy our Republic. White Nationalists were there!  Our adversaries know that also. Let’s stop disinfo from inside & outside. Impeach

    - GOP Denver Riggleman

    1. Readmikenow profile image98
      Readmikenowposted 5 days agoin reply to this

      Denver Riggleman doesn't know what he is doing.

      It is impossible to impeach President Donald Trump before the end of his term.  It will take too long.

      If, by chance, it did happen.  I would unleash anger and rage at levels you've never seen before.

      You are NOT going to get millions of people to be quiet. President Donald Trump has a following of tens of millions of people.  Keep going after him and you will light a powder keg. 

      The wise thing is to let it go.

      FYI...Riggleman lost his bid in Congress to Republican Bob Good.  He is labeled within the party as a RINO.  Nobody in the Republican party listens to him.

    2. GA Anderson profile image92
      GA Andersonposted 5 days agoin reply to this

      At first, I thought they were going to be your thoughts. But, if I understand correctly, you are quoting an article that describes your thoughts.

      Except for the first paragraph, I don't have a lot of disagreement with the article's points—in general.

      My continued comments that I think the immediacy of the push for impeachment is wrong for what we most importantly need—right now, were never intended to mean I don't think there is a need for accountability. I do think that is an important need, and mostly for the same reasons as your quote.

      Think of it like medical triage. Assess the immediate needs first, and prioritize actions based on those needs. My assessment is that our nation needs our new president to get the best start possible, and I don't think playing second fiddle to a political impeachment process is the best start we can give him.

      You, (generic to the folks demanding accountability), can have your accountability, and, give our new president the start he needs. It is just a matter of what is most important; a pound of flesh now to satisfy accountability—to the detriment of our new president's efforts, or we can prioritize our new president's needs first, and the need for accountability second. Either choice achieves accountability. The difference is which is the better choice for our nation.

      GA

  6. IslandBites profile image88
    IslandBitesposted 5 days ago

    “House Republican leaders have decided not to formally lobby members of the party against voting to impeach President Trump"

    House Republican leadership doesn't plan to tell its members to vote against impeaching President Trump or the Democrat-led resolution calling on Vice President Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment to remove Trump from office, a senior GOP aide confirmed to The Hill on Tuesday.

  7. IslandBites profile image88
    IslandBitesposted 5 days ago

    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell reportedly believes that President Trump committed impeachable offenses and supports Democrats’ move to impeach him for a second time after last week’s Capitol riot.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcconn … rts-report

    1. ScottSBateman profile image82
      ScottSBatemanposted 5 days agoin reply to this

      He's afraid of a lot more violence on Inauguration Day and what it will do to the party.

      On a related note, the Joint Chiefs of Staff issued a letter today condemning the Trump rioters.

      Think about it. We now have the military involved. This is what Trump and his supporters have done to our country.

      1. IslandBites profile image88
        IslandBitesposted 5 days agoin reply to this

        Yes. And that they had to remind them of their oath is a little scary. There were veterans and active-duty service members involved.

        That they felt the need to send that memo to the force is no joke.

    2. PrettyPanther profile image84
      PrettyPantherposted 5 days agoin reply to this

      I had just read this an was going to share but you beat me to it. I suppose his cult will now add Mitch to the "bad" list right along with Mike Pence.

      This is truly astonishing news.

  8. PrettyPanther profile image84
    PrettyPantherposted 5 days ago

    I made this point to Sharlee and would like to make it here. It is my opinion that the "stop the steal" delusion of massive election fraud must not be further validated in any way. It must be marginalized. Supporters of it must be cast to the fringes of society. No more calling for investigations and no more cringing in the face of delusional cult me!bers.

    This means, above all, the originator of the lie must be impeached, th elected officials who egged it on must be, at the very least, censured if not removed from office, and those who participated in the uprising at the Capitol must be prosecuted.

    By the way, GA, living in Oregon, I am aware that more than 750 protesters were arrested in Portland over the summer. It is a false right-wing talking point that Democratic cities did nothing to discourage rioters and looters.

    1. GA Anderson profile image92
      GA Andersonposted 4 days agoin reply to this

      I have heard that "750 protesters" thought before. It may or may not be true, but I will accept your statement that it is. My impression that prompted my "snarky" comment is based entirely on what I have seen, and have not seen.

      BY "seen," of course I mean media presentations because I have not further relative to your point. What I don't recall seeing is the mass arrests of those 750 protestors, or presentations of law enforcement's after-the-fact efforts to track down the lawless through video and tip resources like they are doing for those of the Capitol Hill assault.

      However, just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it wasn't done. I do recall the stories about the revolving courthouse doors and the AGs that proclaimed they wouldn't prosecute.

      Maybe I am more wrong than right. I don't have enough information to know. Since I don't like being wrong, maybe I should dig a little more and get back to you.

      GA

      1. ScottSBateman profile image82
        ScottSBatemanposted 4 days agoin reply to this

        You heard it from me. It's widely reported and easy to find in a matter of seconds with a search engine.

        https://www.newsweek.com/more-750-prote … go-1529801

        1. GA Anderson profile image92
          GA Andersonposted 4 days agoin reply to this

          Yes, sources like your link are easy to find. As are sources that speak to quotes in your link about arrestees being processed and immediately being released. And an AG stating he would not prosecute any non-violent charges, (it appears that looting is considered a non-violent crime), and law enforcement agencies declining to participate because of such prosecution standards. As in; why arrest them if they will just be returned to the streets and their charges dropped?

          Most of that is from your link. But it is not enough for me to be comfortable with a firm position. So, as mentioned to PrettyPanther, I will get back to you when I know more. If it turns out that "arrests" mean no more than a few hours off of the streets, then I will feel better about my original thoughts. I don't think any of the Capitol Hill assault arrestees are going to get that kind of easy treatment. (not that I think they deserve it)

          GA

          1. ScottSBateman profile image82
            ScottSBatemanposted 4 days agoin reply to this

            Many were arrested and released; some were convicted.

            The release of a looter is not morally equal to shooting an unarmed black man. Sedition and insurrection is not morally equal to releasing a looter.

            1. GA Anderson profile image92
              GA Andersonposted 3 days agoin reply to this

              If I had offered that reply you would have called it a deflection. No one was talking about moral equivalencies.

              GA

    2. Readmikenow profile image98
      Readmikenowposted 4 days agoin reply to this

      'It is my opinion that the "stop the steal" delusion of massive election fraud must not be further validated in any way. It must be marginalized. Supporters of it must be cast to the fringes of society. No more calling for investigations and no more cringing in the face of delusional cult me!bers."

      You do realize there are very similar passages on how to handle dissidents, just like what you wrote, in Adolph Hitler's autobiography "Mein Kampf."

      What you wrote really shocked me.

      1. wilderness profile image96
        wildernessposted 4 days agoin reply to this

        I wonder if that means that no one must watch for gerrymandering in the future.  Or for illegal aliens voting, or dead people.  Should we not watch for ballot counters changing ballots?  Does violating state's voting laws now not to matter?  Do we have to go back to electors voting their personal wishes rather than those of the people that sent them? 

        Is anyone witnessing improper/illegal voting now considered a "delusional cult member" and cast to the fringes of society?

        Sounds like an excellent method of destroy any vestige of trust in our elections.

        1. Sharlee01 profile image85
          Sharlee01posted 4 days agoin reply to this

          You summed it up well.

        2. abwilliams profile image62
          abwilliamsposted 4 days agoin reply to this

          ^5

        3. ScottSBateman profile image82
          ScottSBatemanposted 4 days agoin reply to this

          I think I count 6 deflections in a single post.  wink

      2. Sharlee01 profile image85
        Sharlee01posted 4 days agoin reply to this

        Shocked Me too... 
        Pretty's statement is very representative of how many generally feel. Not sure they realize there are just as many on the other side of the divide that has been placating and marginalize them and is just not willing to continue. So we are left with a stalemate. 

        So funny you brought up Mein Kampf, last week pulled it out, and wow wish I had not...

        1. Readmikenow profile image98
          Readmikenowposted 4 days agoin reply to this

          Upsetting at to how is resembles the Democrats?

          1. Sharlee01 profile image85
            Sharlee01posted 4 days agoin reply to this

            Yes, I was getting at that. It truly mirrors the left's ideology in many ways. As I said scary.

      3. PrettyPanther profile image84
        PrettyPantherposted 4 days agoin reply to this

        My words on an internet forum about marginalizing terrorists shock you? Aren't you a supporter of a conspiracy theory invented by a lying demagogue who just led his followers to storm the Capitol and bludgeon a police officer with a fire hydrant, among other things?

        I'm shocked.

        1. Readmikenow profile image98
          Readmikenowposted 4 days agoin reply to this

          All you have to do is exchange the words "non-Aryans" with "Trump Supporters" and you have followed the exact blue print of Hitler.  Right down to the labels of his opponents.

          So, yes, it does shock me.

          1. PrettyPanther profile image84
            PrettyPantherposted 4 days agoin reply to this

            Lol, so dramatic. I simply said they need to be marginalized to the fringe,just like moon landing deniers and 9/11 truthers. I didn't see you wringing your hands over them.

            1. Sharlee01 profile image85
              Sharlee01posted 4 days agoin reply to this

              No, actually you said more than that...

              "I made this point to Sharlee and would like to make it here. It is my opinion that the "stop the steal" delusion of massive election fraud must not be further validated in any way. It must be marginalized. Supporters of it must be cast to the fringes of society. No more calling for investigations and no more cringing in the face of delusional cult me!bers."

              I think your opinion on the stop the steel must not be validated could be calling for punishment. It is apparent many share your opinion.  However, is it wise for you to suggest a form of punishment for a group that does not agree with you?  Hey, you have a right to think that way, but hopefully, it is not catchy, or we could see the Hitlerism reborn.

              Calling for society to pack a segment of people off to the fringes of society... Pretty scary stuff.

              1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                PrettyPantherposted 4 days agoin reply to this

                I did not call for punishment anywhere. You made that up. I also did not call for physically "packing up" anyone. I'm talking about viewing those who promote delusional conspiracy theories as a fringe element of society, nothing more than that. Let them spout their nonsense but don't validate it.

                Validate = make or declare logically valid.

                1. Sharlee01 profile image85
                  Sharlee01posted 3 days agoin reply to this

                  I made that up... Your statement is very simply clear...You offered a clear opinion on what you felt should be done "must not be further validated in any way ---Supporters of it must be cast to the fringes of society. "

                  Putting your paragraph in context. You offer a reason why some should be punished.  Must not be further validated alone is fine, but to add the context -- " Supporters of it MUST  BE  CAST to the fringes of society." I would pretty much say the context of your comment was clear. So cast or packing one up, no difference.

                  "I made this point to Sharlee and would like to make it here. It is my opinion that the "stop the steal" delusion of massive election fraud must not be further validated in any way. It must be marginalized. Supporters of it must be cast to the fringes of society. No more calling for investigations and no more cringing in the face of delusional cult me!bers."

                  1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                    PrettyPantherposted 3 days agoin reply to this

                    You're intentionally reading into my wods what I did not say.

                    Feel good about that? I've made myself clear but if you're unable or unwilling to comprehend that I am merely stating that election fraud conspirators should be relegated to the fringes just like moon landing deniers, that is your problem.

                2. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 3 days agoin reply to this

                  It would be most interesting to see someone "make or declare logically valid" Trumps supposed comments calling for an insurrection or riot.  Without "interpreting" the words to mean something unsaid, without spinning the words into something that was not there, without declaring that he speaks in "code" and only those "understanding" that code really know what he meant.

                  (I understand you can "declare" anything at all to be logically valid, but assume that you refer to a "declaration" that is itself is true and logical.  Simply declaring that a call for a peaceful protest is a call for destruction and violence doesn't make it logical.)

  9. Readmikenow profile image98
    Readmikenowposted 5 days ago

    https://hubstatic.com/15365436.jpg

  10. emge profile image79
    emgeposted 4 days ago

    Frankly, the Democrats seem to be overdoing everything. The repercussions of a second impeachment is nothing short of terrible and its just going to divide the country but then I don't think the Dems are bothered about it as they have a one-track mind to just get the better of Trump. Sometimes you shoot yourself in the foot and this is what the Dems are doing. With just six days left I don't see any logic in this impeachment. Mark my words it's going to set America against each other and a sure sign that Joe Biden is the Bahadur Shah of the United States

    1. Sharlee01 profile image85
      Sharlee01posted 4 days agoin reply to this

      We are already at a boiling point.

    2. abwilliams profile image62
      abwilliamsposted 4 days agoin reply to this

      Agreed emge!

      1. Readmikenow profile image98
        Readmikenowposted 4 days agoin reply to this

        If the Democrats continue down this path...things will not go well.

  11. hglick profile image86
    hglickposted 4 days ago

    They are afraid of something!

  12. Readmikenow profile image98
    Readmikenowposted 4 days ago

    You have to ask why the Democrats are so afraid of Free Speech.  It's obvious it scares them.

    University professors push Biden to create ‘misinformation commission’ to counter right-wing 'lies'

    "A pair of university professors are urging Democratic President-elect Joe Biden to create a presidential "misinformation commission" to counter the spread of right-wing "lies."

    ...professors Bill Adair and Philip Napoli, both of whom are public policy instructors at Duke University, argued that the recent storming of the U.S. Capitol by a mob of Trump supporters proves the need for a government panel to decide what speech ought to be permitted."

    1. ScottSBateman profile image82
      ScottSBatemanposted 4 days agoin reply to this

      Do you believe free speech includes the right to post on social media that you are planning to murder someone?

  13. Readmikenow profile image98
    Readmikenowposted 3 days ago

    https://hubstatic.com/15367847.jpg

  14. The Masked Marauder profile image80
    The Masked Marauderposted 3 days ago

    Dearest Sharlee01 and GA Anderson,

    I commend you both on your ability to play the "BothSiderism" game, but for the sake of all of us, please, just take a side and be done with it.

    1. savvydating profile image93
      savvydatingposted 3 days agoin reply to this

      2nd that... !!

      But it's a free country... for a short period of time, anyway.

      1. GA Anderson profile image92
        GA Andersonposted 3 days agoin reply to this

        Oh my, I guess I just ain't made to be a sacrificial warrior. Hang in there Savvydating. Even when your perspective isn't validated, you get kudos for sticking with it. 'That's my story and I'm sticking with it.' I guess that is something.

        GA

    2. Sharlee01 profile image85
      Sharlee01posted 3 days agoin reply to this

      Well Hello M&M,  Not sure about what subject I climbed on a fence and balanced my opinion?  You have piqued my curiosity. So, give me a clue.

      I guess I think out of the box. What if -- now think about this. What if one side has a really solid point, and it just fits my opinion on a given subject. And then hell, on a totally different subject the "other side" comes up with a thought that just sounds right on...

      I stay open-minded, try to just use good old common sense, and yeah have a big problem keeping my mouth shut.

      Plus, I like to choose the side I agree with on a given subject, and that's a problem because I don't think either side is right all the time. Do you?

    3. GA Anderson profile image92
      GA Andersonposted 3 days agoin reply to this

      I don't take sides—for the sake of taking sides. Considering what we have seen between 'The Left' and 'The Right' these last few years I think that position is validated. No "side" is ever always right or always wrong.

      I do have a definite 'lean', but when that "lean" isn't right I don't have a problem adjusting. I think that is the more intelligent perspective. We aren't talking about sports teams, we are talking about our nation's direction.

      You are welcome to a 'my way or the highway' perspective if that is what makes you comfortable with your opinions. I will stick to my perspective of right is right and wrong is wrong. Easy-peasy, no stressful decision making to worry about.

      ps. I like your "Dearest" introduction to your thought. ;-)

      GA

      1. Sharlee01 profile image85
        Sharlee01posted 3 days agoin reply to this

        Me straddling a fence?  What the hell, if only I could learn to do that.

  15. The Masked Marauder profile image80
    The Masked Marauderposted 3 days ago

    GA Anderson,

    Thank you for the compliment on the "Dearest" opening. I respect both your and Sharlee's opinion, but (here it comes) both of you seem to "lean" right and that is your right (is that a double intendre)?

    However, in regard to my comment of "BothSiderism", I stand firm. Amongst voters in the 2020 election 74 million people voted for Trump and 81 million voted for Biden. Sorry but that's only 7 million voters away from an even split disregarding the (should be defunct) electoral college.

    Sorry again but that is two sides.

    At this juncture, I should state emphatically, that I have no respect for lifetime lying politician Joe Biden who, in my opinion, will try to return this country to the status quo that has so dismally failed regular American workers since the 1970's.

    However, I have even less respect for the a lying, failed businessman that is Donald Trump and, as a 68 year old, at this point I would prefer a professional politician to a reality television snake oil salesman who has failed the American people in a deadly pandemic and further fueled division amongst the people.

    There, I picked a side and so should you. After all, this is America and the parties that be leave you only two choices. The frying pan or the fire.

    I chose a side. The frying pan.

    It is my honest opinion that the people who voted for Trump failed miserably to do the due diligence it takes to be a responsible voter. Donald Trump has failed upwards spectacularly his entire life. Everything about him is a lie.

    I would highly suggest that, next time, voters who really want to shake up the system should just attend their local State Fair and recruit the guy who's trying to sell you on putting a 10 inch basketball through a 9 inch hoop in hopes of winning a 50 cent stuffed animal for a 5 dollar fee..

    After all, you'll have better odds at that than ever electing another unqualified bumpkin like Donald Trump to be President of the greatest nation on the planet.

    Sincerely,
    The Masked Marauder.

    1. savvydating profile image93
      savvydatingposted 3 days agoin reply to this

      "It is my honest opinion that the people who voted for Trump failed miserably to do the due diligence it takes to be a responsible voter. Donald Trump has failed upwards spectacularly his entire life. Everything about him is a lie."

      Oh, just another social media junkie. My bad. For a minute there, I thought you might have a unique thought.

      Netflix has an worthwhile show, amazingly enough: The Social Dilemma. We could all learn some things from it... not that I assume you are particularly interested in doing that.

    2. GA Anderson profile image92
      GA Andersonposted 2 days agoin reply to this

      Just as you will stand firm that you think that there are only two sides, I will stand firm in my disagreement. There is at least a third side—the side of our nation, and that is the side I pick—the Independent side.

      I will support or condemn policies or actions from either side depending on whether I think they are good or bad for our nation. Picking a side does not have to be an all-or-nothing proposition.

      In 2016 I couldn't vote for Hillary because I felt she, and her policy goals would be harmful to our nation. But I couldn't vote for Trump either because I didn't think he had the character our nation needed in its president. So I voted a write-in.

      Though the next four years I supported many of Trump's policy actions because I thought they were good for our nation, but I didn't support all of them, (as in, no all-or-nothing allegiance), and I never supported the man.

      In 2020, I couldn't vote for Trump because, to me, he had proven he didn't have the character our nation needed in its president, But I also couldn't vote for Biden because he espoused too many of the democrat policy goals that I think will harm our nation. So I voted my down-ballot, I didn't have a presidential choice because I vote for a candidate, not against a candidate. Even so, I think I picked a side, the side of what is good for our nation—I didn't think either candidate was.

      I am rooting for Biden to have a successful presidency because that is what our nation needs. I will support him in every policy I think is right for us and I will condemn and resist every policy that I think isn't. And right now, except that he isn't Trump I haven't heard to0 many policies I want to support.

      So we just disagree Jimmi, I have picked a side, the side of our nation, the Independent side. There are few things in life that are all-or-nothing and I certainly don't think a political party agenda is one of them.

      Neither do I think the categorization of 75 or 80 million people, (of either side), as one thing or the other is an all-or-nothing choice. So I will defend the ones I think are reasonable and condemn the ones that aren't.

      Plus, there is an added bonus for me. I really enjoy a good issues discussion in these forums, so in holding the position I do I have double the opportunity for forum participation. ;-)

      GA.

 
working

This website uses cookies

As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.

For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://maven.io/company/pages/privacy

Show Details
Necessary
HubPages Device IDThis is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.
LoginThis is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.
Google RecaptchaThis is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy)
AkismetThis is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic PixelThis is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web ServicesThis is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
CloudflareThis is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted LibrariesJavascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)
Features
Google Custom SearchThis is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy)
Google MapsSome articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google ChartsThis is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host APIThis service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTubeSome articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
VimeoSome articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
PaypalThis is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook LoginYou can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
MavenThis supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)
Marketing
Google AdSenseThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClickGoogle provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index ExchangeThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
SovrnThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook AdsThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad MarketplaceThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexusThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
OpenxThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon ProjectThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLiftThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say MediaWe partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing PixelsWe may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking PixelsWe may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.
Statistics
Author Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
ComscoreComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking PixelSome articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
ClickscoThis is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)