Trump: Either I Win the Election or I DeLegitimize the Election

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   crankaliciousposted 4 years ago

   What Trump is saying about not accepting the results of the upcoming election based on false allegations about cheating and voter fraud is the biggest, single threat to our country since it was founded. It is an unprecedented attack on our institutions. It is probably the single, worst, most divisive and dangerous thing a President has ever said.
   
   Those who are patriots to our country and those who believe in America and its values will vote for somebody else in November. If everyone voted according to the importance of furthering and continuing Democracy in our country, Trump's vote count would be zero.
   
   Basically, Trump has clearly said, either he wins or he was cheated out of victory. According to Trump, the only way he loses is if there is fraud. He's got the entire government claiming, without evidence, that there is massive voter fraud with mail-in voting. Even staunch Republicans have said this claim is completely false. Yet, here we are.
   
   If Trump doesn't accept the results of the election after all the votes are counted, it is the end of our country as we know it. It is the end of Democracy. Basically, a vote for Trump this November is a vote for Autocracy. If America and its values are on the ballot, then there shouldn't be a single vote for Trump.

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      wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      What do you think he'll do?  Refuse to vacate the White House, call in the army to prevent the Secret Service from forcibly removing him and putting Biden in?  Do you believe that "executive orders" from a simple citizen will be followed, that if a citizen refuses to sign congress's bills they will not be law?  Not even a die hard liberal can possibly believe that.
      
      This is just like the rest of the liberal efforts to maintain political power, from the Russian collusion to a fake impeachment attempt; just another political ploy to get what they want whether ethical or not.

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         crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         I think he will do exactly what he says he is going to do. If he loses, he will claim fraud without proof and deny that he lost. His supporters, having been conditioned for months that any loss will equal fraud, will begin protesting across America. It will be chaos, just like his entire Presidency.
         
         And again, Russian collusion wasn't fake, as was proven by a bi-partisan commission that included Republicans that proved beyond any doubt that Trump campaign officials were providing information to Russian intelligence agents. The impeachment was actually a real thing too, based on Trump offering favors in exchange for dirt on his political opponents. That dirt, incidentally, which turned out to be both fake and a product of Russian propaganda efforts.
         
         I submit that anyone who votes for Trump (outside of a protest vote) is anti-American and has lost sight of what our country is supposed to be about.
         
         We're talking about a President who has said over and over that he can't lose and won't lose unless there is cheating. He is not willing to say he will accept the results. He is also, right now, contradicting virtually every scientist there is in how he is addressing the pandemic.
         
         He is undermining both our Democracy and basic science. He is suggesting we should not trust anyone in government or anyone in education. He is inviting Civil War.

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            wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            For sure.  Trump colluded with Putin to throw the election; that was the charge given to the public.  Of course, it changed to "Someone talked to a Russian (any Russian) when the first was shown to be 100% false.
            
            Just like the fake impeachment; the body of the Senate certainly disposed of the effort quickly, recognizing that there was nothing (but political lies) there.
            
            So Trump will incite riots if he loses.  And this is different than liberals joining rioters and telling they are doing the right thing?  It is different than liberals informing criminals when the cops are coming to town?  Isn't this the method being taught by liberals: if you don't get what you want, riot and burn!

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               crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               Every U.S. intelligence agency has said, over and over, that Russians have been interfering in U.S. elections in support of Trump. Then, you discover that Trump campaign officials are working with the Russians in a variety of ways.
               
               As a U.S. intelligence official, would you not investigate?
               
               Offering political favors as President to a foreign government in exchange for dirt on your political opponents is certainly impeachable. And given that information turned out to be utterly false, it's even worse. Effectively, he was asking for manufactured dirt.

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                  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  "Offering political favors as President to a foreign government in exchange for dirt on your political opponents is certainly impeachable."
                  
                  Good point - as there was no punishment or removal from office the inescapable conclusion is that it did not occur.  Only the impeachment from liberals willing to take any steps to gain political goals.

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            Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            You're funny.

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               crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               I wish I was being funny. Trump has said over and over. If I lose, it's not legitimate.
               
               He doesn't understand science, doesn't believe in science, doesn't believe in masks, doesn't believe in climate change, doesn't understand basic American history, doesn't understand or believe in Democracy.
               
               Is anyone surprised that with all his advocating for violence, we have violence? Surprise!
               
               With Trump, there are no more facts. Everything is hyperbole. I'm just participating.

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                  peoplepower73posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm late to the party, but here are my two cents.  Trump is doing what psychologist call projection.  He is projecting his fears and  actions on to others.  He is the one who is rigging the election by sabotaging the post office, claims he will bring out his henchmen to monitor voting sites, created conspiracy theory about voter fraud, supports Russia, China and Brazil meddling in our election.
                  
                  If he claims voter fraud and is taken to court.  He will have to prove there is fraud beyond a reasonable doubt.  Saying many people say there is, won't work.  If he can't prove it, his claim will become nothing more than conspiracy theory that is not proven.
                  
                  
                  Trump is coming from a very weak position and he knows it.  If he does not get re-elected he is dead meat.  He will be indicted for tax evasion and obstruction of justice.  His president's pass will be revoked and he will be marched out the white house. Bill Barr will not be there to protect him.  He will be a citizen and that is about it. He will be subject to all the vagaries' that he has committed.

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                     MizBejabbersposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     Let's hope he's using his bluster to bluff his way in, but the man has already proved he's insane, or at the least, a narcissist, whom people see through.

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                        PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        Hi, Miz. 
                        
                        You mean, who some people see through.
                        
                        My cousin just told me she LOVES President Trump and thinks he is the most unselfish president EVER. She truly believes it, too.
                        
                        I don't think these people's critical minds are salvageable. They have become cult members,

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                           wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           Believe me when I say that a great many conservatives feel the same about liberals; anyone that thinks the likes of Pelosi or Shumer are not selfish - that they are in it for the good of the people rather than themselves - has zero critical thinking skills and probably never will.

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                              PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                              Yes, I am aware of this.

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                              peoplepower73posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                              Wilderness: Many conservatives who love Trump listen to Fox Fake News. All the anchors at Fox have prostituted themselves for big money. The money comes from ratings.  Trump, Hannity, Limbaugh, Ingram, Levin, Carlson, and others are in a loop to promote Trump for those big ratings to earn big bucks. Hannity is at 30 million per year. 
                              
                              Notice I included Trump because he gets a lot of his BS from those people and presents it as fact.  When in fact it is false information, but your people buy it hook line a sinker as those anchors rake in the dough.
                              
                              Trump doesn't give a big rat's arse about anybody except himself.  He has sacrificed many lives by delaying the shutdown of the virus based on not panicking the people so it looks good for his re-election.
                              
                              He holds rallies where people spread the virus because he doesn't see them as people, he sees them as voting numbers. He doesn't wear a mask because he gets checked constantly.  They don't wear masks because they are following their great brave leader.  But the more of them that get infected and die, the more it reduces the gene pool.  It's natures way of survival of the fittest.
                              
                              All of his happy talk about the virus going away soon does not comport with what the experts say as the cases are going up. He needs the vaccine before the election so that he can put a feather in his cap at the risk of sacrificing more lives.  It is so sad the way he is manipulating people for his own self-interest.
                              
                              He now has  coopted the CDC and is overriding their guidance so that he can get re-elected and again is sacrificing lives.  We need a leader who can take command at the highest level so that we become one nation fighting this virus, not separate divided states.  Trump is not capable of doing that, because  he really doesn't know how to lead.  But he is a master at dividing and conquering for his own self-interest.

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      GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Pres. Trump really should have his wordsmiths work on a better presentation of that message.
      
      I think what he is trying to say is that he will challenge the election results if he thinks there is game-changing fraud involved. That is the most charitable explanation I can think of.
      
      I don't think he can delegitimize the results. He may be able to challenge them in court, but I think that is all he can do. I also think he is just chumming the waters with his statements—in preparation for the need to challenge.
      
      On this issue, he has dug a hole for himself and just won't stop digging.
      
      GA

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         crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         He will challenge the results if he thinks there is fraud?
         
         He has said the only way he can lose is if there's fraud.
         
         Therefore, if he loses, he will challenge the results.

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            wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            Isn't that pretty normal, having been done for decades?  "I lost, but it was because the other side cheated!  I challenge!".

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               crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               Can you find another instance where a U.S. President, prior to an election, has said the only way he can lose is if there's cheating and that he won't accept the results if he loses?
               
               1960 is probably the best analogy to today, but Nixon said he refused to challenge the results. However, Republican operatives certainly did challenge. Unfortunately, the investigations, while coming up with some minor fraud, didn't find enough to overturn the election. Not anywhere close.
               
               Of course, Mayor Daley in Chicago was well-known as an election-fixer, a legitimate criticism that haunts Democrats to this day.

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         MizBejabbersposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         "I think what he is trying to say is that he will challenge the election results if he thinks there is game-changing fraud involved. That is the most charitable explanation I can think of."
         
         I think he is saying more than that, GA. I think he is saying that he won't accept the election results if he does not win and will refuse to vacate the office. In which case, he would be bodily removed by whomever has the authority to do that. Now if the powers-that-be in charge of removal refuse to do that, then I'm afraid there will be violence from the street. I really do worry about our country.

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      Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Quite a few democrats in power have said the exact same thing. If Trump wins it will only be by cheating.
      
      
      Plus, there is ample evidence of voter fraud, mostly by the left. The manner in which the left is pushing this election to be run leads me to be ready to be very suspicious of the results.
      
      It's funny how the left always blames the right of exactly what the left is doing.

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         peoplepower73posted 4 years agoin reply to this

         LTL:  Trump is rigging the election by sabotaging the US post office, slowing down the mail-in-ballots by removing sorting machines, claiming that the ballots are fraud without any proof, having his henchmen monitor the voting sites, and allowing Russia, China, and Brazil to meddle in our election process. If he wins everything is O.K., but if he loses, then he claims there is a rigged election...what kind of B.S. is that? He has poisoned the well before anybody has  drank the water.

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            wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            "...and allowing Russia, China, and Brazil to meddle in our election process."
            
            Really?  I recently saw a report where Shumer refused to allow the Senate to be briefed by the military and Security on the safety of our elections, particularly in reference to foreign interference.
            
            Just who is allowing Russian, China and Brazil to meddle?

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            Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            The left poisoned the well back in the 2016 election. Refusing to accept the results, spending years convincing weak minded people that their conspiracy theories on the election weren't the fraudulent load of bs facts continue to show it to be.
            
            They have also spent that time setting the state for and egging on the violence in our country.
            
            Any problems with this election can be laid squarely in the lap of the left. Whether their weak minded cultish followers are capable of grasping the reality of the situation, or not.

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               peoplepower73posted 4 years agoin reply to this

               LTL:  You don't get what poisoning the well means.  It means he is creating doubt with his conspiracy theories before the election. Let me remind you.  Hillary won the popular vote and Trump was never ever to prove fraud of her popular vote.  It's open-ended conspiracy theory.  That's what he does best.
               
               As far as creating violence, Trump in his rallies condones violence.  You have drunk the Kool aid. Talk about cults. Trump's rallies look just like Hitler's rallies as he was coming into the power. MAGA is a mystical country.  That's what fascists do.  They get people to yearn for a mystical country and race that doesn't exists and create an us and them mentality'  That's precisely what Hitler did.
               
               The  people did not realize it and Trump's  supporters don't realize it,  because he has made them into a cult.  He has brainwashed them to the point where they are willing to risk their lives with the virus and Trump could care less.  All he wants are their votes as they go around infecting each other.  He does not realize he is infecting the people who are supporting him.  Oh well there goes the gene pool for his cult.
               
               
               https://www.vox.com/2020/9/1/21409037/t … incitement

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                  MizBejabbersposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  Couldn't have been much of a gene pool to begin with. I've been told ya can't fix stupid.

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                     peoplepower73posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     MizBejabbers:  I believe there is a certain natural order to things and you can't  mess with it.  I think it's natures way of reducing the gene pool for his supporters.  It is actually survival of the fittest and if they are not smart enough to follow the experts and CDC guidelines, then nature has a way of thinning them out. Trump doesn't realize it because he is too wrapped up in his own selfish ego.

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                  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  It's funny when you think about reality. I see cultish, unthinking behavior by the left. You (imo) imagine it on the right. I see video footage daily, you claim it exists without solid proof, other than confirmation bias
                  
                  Differences in left and right. To the right, setting is believing. To the left, believing is believing. But, since the left excels at believing they can reinvent the meaning of words and ignore all data that doesn't support the desired conclusion; I completely get where you start with the argument.

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                     crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     To evangelicals, seeing is believing? Okay, sure. Left is right. Up is down. And the moon is made of cheese.

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                        Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        Glad you mentioned evangelicals because I swear the left acts like a religious cult. It's becoming more and more frightening.

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                           PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           And who is the leader; or object of adoration, in this cult?

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                           crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           Wonder where they got the idea?

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                              Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                              Lol. That makes perfect sense. The left finds a group who doesn't think for themselves and just spout what someone else tells them to. And emulates them.
                              
                              Glad you cleared that up.

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   PrettyPantherposted 4 years ago

   Having been away from the forums a lot lately I am finding it difficult to participate again, knowing that it truly does not matter what Trump says or does, at this point. Anyone who still supports him will find a way to explain away his explicitly stated authoritarian plans to steal the election. When Trump loses, they will line up behind him and QAnon to embrace  every conspiracy theory that fits Trump's propaganda and dismiss that pesky old constitution and rule of law as "deep state" enemies out to get their exalted leader.
   
   It is all so predictable and so tedious watching them fall for it over and over again.
   
   This is how democracy ends, a substantial minority fall behind a con man authoritarian, another smaller but significant portion say not to worry, he can't get away with it, and the rest of us fight like hell to rid ourselves of the despot. Sometimes we win, sometimes not.
   
   Being an eternal optimist, I think we will finally rid ourselves of this despicable con man and his grifter family but it won't be pretty and a substantial number of cult members will be frothing at the mouth to fight about it,

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   Nathanvilleposted 4 years ago

   Trump may not have the means to take control on his own, and it’s unlikely the Army would support him; but he is insane enough to incite a civil war.

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