Could We Put Our Political Differences Aside?
Is it possible to put our political differences aside in regard to the Coronavirus outbreak? This virus is affecting us all in one way or another. Does it seem we could stop the blame game, the comparison game for a time? At least until this virus is under some form of control. We on this forum are a small group, we all have very strong opinions. It is evident by the fact that our small group hangs in, and debate our opinions vigorously. To the point of some of us (me for one) being banned by the HP monitors.
Is it at all possible we give it a break when discussing the Coronavirus? Are we really accomplishing anything by playing the comparison game or bashing one another for pointing out what has been done right and what has been done wrong? I would think we will have plenty of time to do that in the future. Why not keep our discussion on the daily positives and negatives on fighting the virus. I mean we are all vulnerable when it comes to the effects of this new virus. Seems this is a good time to look at each other as diverse human beings
Is it possible to stop playing the blame game, the comparison game in regard to the Coronavirus that is threatening not only our health but for many of their financial well being? Could we call a truce? We are all in the same boat are we not?The problem with that is that negatives or positives in regards to the response for mitigating infection or fatalities eminate from Washington. So, how things are handled there has had too much of a political bent, so it is difficult to ignore that in the grand scheme of things.
While we are in the same boat, we have differing ideas as how to guide it to a safe haven.
That is we we are here for debate, discussion and examination of differing ideas.
I am not one to engage in personal attack, but as for those that are responsible for shepherding us through the crisis, their performance is to be closely watched, evaluated and praised or criticized, as appropriate."I am not one to engage in personal attack, but as for those that are responsible for shepherding us through the crisis, their performance is to be closely watched, evaluated and praised or criticized, as appropriate."
Damn Cred, you are on a roll. That was another good point.
Would you say that is what we are seeing in these forums?
I don't. I see nasty personal attacks. For instance; one post claims Pres. Trump ordered those cruise ships not to dock in order to "keep his numbers" up prior to the election.
Most sources say it was the CDC and local health authorities, (California), that ordered the ships not to dock. Is it more realistic to think that Pres. Trump ordered those entities to block the ships' docking or to think those were agency decisions?
GAWell, GA, would anyone even question why it was done were it not for Trump's own words?
Question why it was done? No, for they don't care why it was done.
But make up reasons and put them in Trumps mouth? Indubitably - it is part and parcel of bashing the president at every opportunity.I find it hard to believe that I am the only "anyone" that would first think it is an agency action, (CDC and local health agencies), before thinking the president ordered it to keep his numbers up for the election.
GAI'm sure many of Trump's enablers take him at his word, so you're not alone in your "thinking," Gus.
Where did you get that I was taking him at his word Randy? I clearly spoke to the word of the CDC and local health authorities. You need to find another pony.
GAMy point was Trump is making things worse with his statements, not better. He'd be better off letting the doctors and other health experts talk rather than confusing things. Do you disagree?
That would depend on how you interpret his statements, wouldn't it?
These last few pressers that I have seen have been filled with doctors and experts, and questions have been directed to them for their expertise. They have been doing most of the talking.
It seems this discussion is drifting from "Trump did it for his own political gain" to "Trump is confusing matters with his statements." Which way do you want to go?
GARandy, the media is making things worse by not providing the entire statement. Never so much as they are doing now. Now when they should be calming and helping a horrid situation they are stoking it. Please take just a bit of time to research a few of these stories the media are pushing. This is pure propaganda. I must defend the president when he deserves defending, and so should you friend...
I'm sorry but this is just not true. Trump's comments are almost always carried live and videos of them are easily found online.
Correct Sandy, I don't know what media Shar is referring to, but as you pointed out, much of his statements are live. Must be Faux News where she gets her opinion.
GA posted the actual quotes of the said conversation. Not sure how else to set forth the facts. I will have a look on Cspan and they have all his statements on Vidio. It was very clear Trump was talking about keeping the number of virus cases down. Will, you even believe the full video in its full context?
I already said I am not disputing the meaning of what he said. I just think that it is natural to interpret his comments as some have, because Trump has repeatedly shown himself to be a selfish person lacking in compassion.
I found a soundbite from ABC news. Trump did not use the words "two weeks" as CNN reported. he used the words "quickly done". Which does question the context of the report. We all by now realize Trump does mess updates, percentages, and lots more. His statements are heaven sent to any media that want to change up context on what he may have meant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS2buIDXgco"Quickly done" means just that, Shar. Not like Google's response to Trump's claim which says they are in the very early stages of developing the website. More confusing statements we don't need.
I see your point. But for CNN to just say two weeks... Why not just keep his words intact, and yes let us all determine his meaning. And you are correct any confusing statement at this anxiety-driven moment is not needed. Trump has in the past weeks came out with some confusing statements. Was it purposeful? I don't believe so. Google did get a site up and running in Californa today, and admitted they are working on a "nationwide site with the Us government. Not sure about the confusion about the website started, but what Trump ultimately said was true. he should not have put any form of prediction on when the nationwide site would be done or up and running.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/16/googles-c … alifornia/
I cannot defend a habitual liar, Shar. And you shouldn't either, friend.
Randy, PP also feels Trump made the claim that he wanted to "keep his election numbers up when he made the statement we are all going back and forth on. GA gave a full quote of the statement. I am going to find the video on Cspan so it can be heard in its full contents.
Not asking you to defend anything but this one incident. It is a place to start.
One only has to listen to the full context of his statement to see he was referring to keeping infection numbers down. This kind of vitriol is contagious and uncalled for. My God, it appears so many are being satisfied with soundbites, headlines. Does anyone much look for context at all?
I really am glad you are back Randy, you make reading these threads a great stress reliever, you and Scott have been on a roll the past few weeks.
Right, but I'm only pointing out that Trump himself introduced the idea. It didn't emerge from anyone's devious mind but his own.
My first thought is that you might be referring to this quote:
“I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault. "
Sounds bad. But, in the context of the statement that included that quote it seems clear he is talking about controlling the virus numbers and not his election numbers.
GAHe also claimed Google would have a coronavirus website in a week or so, Gus. Google said it would be later on in the year before it was completed. Does this sound like he knows what he's talking about? This sort of statement isn't confusing to lots of people? Or did you believe him?
You are mixing issues Randy. I jumped in on the claim that Pres. Trump blocked the ships' docking for personal political gain. I think that point is provably false.
Now, you want to change the issue to Trump's use of hyperbole, exaggeration, and sometimes outright lies—in general. I don't think I am up to that task.
GA"Now, you want to change the issue to Trump's use of hyperbole, exaggeration, and sometimes outright lies—in general. I don't think I am up to that task."
No, simply making the point he should keep his mouth shut if he's not sure about something. He also stated the virus was under control yesterday. Another lie which misleads people.I see, so you are asserting that what he meant was that he didn't want more people to get the virus by allowing the ship to dock?
You could be right. Trump could always clarify. Weird how so much of what he says has to be explained, but I understand.
Given how concerned he always is with his numbers, crowd sizes; etc. it seems to me that it's also a reasonable assumption that he wanted to make sure the perception was that the number of cases wasn't going to grow so he could maintain what a great job he was doing.Yes, Crankalicious, that is what I meant—he didn't want the number of infected people to go up.
But, I don't think it is 'unreasonable' to also think your "reasonable assumption" might not have been in the back of his mind either.
GA
never said in a few week's time... His full statement on the link below The two-week thing is a debunked CNN report.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK9iS1f31_8Shar, did you look at what The Epoch Times really is before you posted your link?
In August 2019, Facebook banned The Epoch Times from advertising on its platform, after finding that the newspaper broke Facebook's political transparency rules by publishing pro-Trump subscription ads through sockpuppet pages such as “Honest Paper” and “Pure American Journalism."[8][13] A Facebook representative told NBC: "Over the past year we removed accounts associated with The Epoch Times for violating our ad policies, including trying to get around our review systems." [8]
During the February 2020 Iowa Democratic Caucuses, The Epoch Times shared viral disinformation from the conservative group Judicial Watch that falsely alleged inflated voter rolls.[70] The claim, which went viral on Facebook, was debunked by fact checkers and the Iowa secretary of state.[71][72] A Harvard media expert quoted by NBC News said The Epoch Times employed a "classic disinformation tactic" known as "trading up the chain," in which false stories are repackaged and shared.[70]
In October 2019, the fact-checking website Snopes reported that The Epoch Times is closely linked to a large network of Facebook pages and groups called The BL (The Beauty of Life) that shares pro-Trump views and conspiracy theories such as QAnon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Epoch_Times
So much for your link, Shar. Would you trust them?I have finally found a soundbite from ABC News you can listen to the president's statement. He did not stipulate " two weeks" as CNN reported. His words were "very quickly done". Context matters. This false story in regards to the two weeks debunked report was still used on the Trump list of lies. That list is nothing but words twisted out of context and fed up to some that are content with believing anything they are told. Start looking deeper into even just one media report that sounds like something you really wanted to hear. Then research for full content, and context. I think you will find you have been misleading.
Abc news --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS2buIDXgco
I think the only one talking about his election numbers is you. But I could be wrong.
Once again, Sigh, another fair point.
I would have been more clear if I had focused on the obvious personal attack; "What kind of person keeps sick people on a boat so his numbers won't go up?" than to fog things up with the political benefit inference.
GAWell, we have no way of knowing if his personal interests were part of the decision to block the cruise for the time it was. But we do know that he would have keep the people on the cruise based on numbers. He said so. And we know he didn't mean numbers = just don't want more people to get sick, because what he said after. So spare me the indignation.
Whose statement is not correct?
You are right that we have no way of knowing for sure, but available information does contradict the original statement that Pres. Trump blocked the ship's dockings. Is that what you can't agree with?
GA
You based you conclusion on information, but don't know for sure. He based his conclusion on information (Trump words) but cant know for sure. He's statement was not accurate. You said his "attack is not fair", I say, I don't agree. So, to answer your question, both.
Also, now that you asked.
...their performance is to be closely watched, evaluated and praised or criticized, as appropriate."
Damn Cred...
Would you say that is what we are seeing in these forums?
I don't. I see nasty personal attacks.
If that's all you see, maybe you should share some of that benefit-of-the-doubt you always keep in hand for the Trump WH.
Contrary to what is thought that I meant, I didn't say that was all I see, and, I apply that "benefit-of-the-doubt" a lot more liberally on these forums than you might think Island Mom, but when comments are loaded with; 'cretin', 'moron', 'idiot', 'a$$hole', etc. there isn't much room for any doubt about their qualification as nasty personal attacks.
The same applies when individuals or individuals inferred by a group label are subject to those same descriptors.
GAIf you say so, ok. Maybe I missed it.
Would you say that is what we are seeing in these forums?
I don't. I see nasty personal attacks.So Trump can insult and call names, but his detractors shouldn't label him because he's a dishonest man? Yeah, Obama wasn't treated this way by the Right, right?
I reserve my insults for those who really deserve it...and Trump fills the bill, Gus.That standard of 'two wrongs make a right' may work for you Randy, but not me. (generally. I am sure I have done the same thing too, but I hope it has been an exception rather than the rule)
Maybe that's why my comments are more milquetoast than fire and brimstone? Maybe I should change that. Just to be more interesting.
GATrump sets the standard we all should follow, Gus.
I remember a lot about Obama being insulted by the Right. Some were very racial in nature, but seldom was he caught intentionally lying about serious matters. What goes around...You are right. Some from the right were as nasty towards Pres. Obama then as we are seeing from the Left towards Pres. Trump now.
Same standard applies—two wrongs don't make a right. Your "what goes around . . . " is just a rationalization, not a justification.
GAI find it similar to "elections have consequences." I consider this a rationalization from some people. Especially so when the candidate with the fewest votes wins. This seems to happen on the Right more often than not.
Randy, would you feel differently if Trump won the popular vote? Have you ever considered he might this next time around? So, would you have been more open to supporting Trump if he won the popular vote? How would have you felt if your candidate won the Electoral vote, and now sat in the WH? Would you feel she did not deserve to be sitting in that WH?
Sounds like you are arguing against our Republic national structure. Are you advocating for pure democracy?
GA
Just FYI, some of us, or me anyway, truly believe Trump is exactly what we say he is. In my case, a lying POS. I don't call any other person such a specific name. Also, I sincerely believe that people who believeTrump over the scientists and endanger the lives of their fellow Americans as a result are "dumbasses." I don't throw out insults lightly. I use them with intention. You may believe it is no different from how Trump insults pretty much anyone who disagrees with him, but I think you are very, very wrong.
Trump is truly a lying POS who I would not let near my family or even my dog.Oh hell, now I'm stuck. I don't have an issue with your comment, but let me try to explain my perspective.
For me, it is one thing to hold and express that opinion, and another to take every opportunity, (and even when there isn't a relevant opportunity), to include that expression in almost every comment made.
Maybe an example would be to disagree with him on something. "I think he is wrong." Or even, "I think he is lying." vs."I think that lying POS cretin is wrong because he is a moronic liar."
I know that seems like fuzzy logic, but I do see a difference.
Do you see what I am trying to say, or am I just trying to split hairs?
GAThis may be true if Trump didn't continue to prove us right by spinning more falsehoods every day. Can you you point out a POTUS who lied one tenth as much as Trump? Why do you believe he deserves respect for his habitual lying? Because he's such a wonderful leader? Or what?
Do you think if he stopped lying so much he'd be more respected...by both sides of the aisle?Where do you think I said or inferred respect was deserved? Where did I say or infer he wasn't a liar? You are missing the point Randy.
GA
NO, keep your cool. I think some of us can read between the lines and understand what you're not saying, but the message is loud and clear. -- does that make sense to you, it does at this moment to me?
I don't. I see nasty personal attacks. For instance; one post claims Pres. Trump ordered those cruise ships not to dock in order to "keep his numbers" up prior to the election.
Please share. I missed that post."What kind of person keeps sick people on a boat so his numbers won't go up? "
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/347 … ost4126774
GAThanks.
But being nitpicky... you claimed he said Trump want "to keep his numbers up" (I suppose you mean approval? voters?) But he said so his numbers won't go up, meaning number of coronavirus cases. That was Trump quote.
I wont argue if Trump ordered it or not. Im just nitpicking.
Sigh, I have to admit it is a fair nitpick. I had to think about it also.
It was only my interpretation of the poster's words, and their inference, that allowed me to be comfortable enough to continue as I did.
At least we seem to have reached an agreement that the claim, as I took it—that Trump ordered the blocking of the ships for political reasons isn't a fair claim.
GANah, I cant agree, as I have no way of knowing one way or another. His statement is not correct. Yours is no different.
Whose statement is not correct?
You are right that we have no way of knowing for sure, but available information does contradict the original statement that Pres. Trump blocked the ship's dockings. Is that what you can't agree with?
GAAgain, GA, since you're parsing my statement, I was not asserting that Trump was trying to keep his poll numbers up. I was asserting that he was trying to limit the spread of new infections by keeping the boat away and not helping those people even though everything I read at the time said that would do little to stop the spread of the virus. So, essentially, he felt he could keep the virus numbers down, thereby allowing himself to emphasize our low numbers, even though it didn't make scientific sense and went against most advice I saw.
Would you disagree that Trump is obsessed with numbers? Poll numbers, crowd numbers; etc. Why is it somehow unfair to assume his is obsessed with the optics of his numbers in any given situation?I didn't think I was "parsing" your words Crankalicious. The way I read your comment an inference seemed clear—he was thinking of personal gain.
GAHow could one not assume that Trump was concerned about numbers and how it made him look?
Isn't making such an assumption pure evidence-based reasoning?
Here's a President, unlike any other in his obsession over his crowd numbers and how it reflects on him. Every time he has a rally it's a huge crowd. He wouldn't let go of the crowd-size of his inauguration.
So it stands to reason he likes high numbers when they make him look good and low numbers when they make him look good.
This isn't some casual observation. This is his obsession. Why would he not be obsessed with looking good in this situation too?Nah, really? Do you mean like this?
Donald Trump
“We’ve gotten the highest poll numbers of anybody for this kind of thing.” — Fox News town hall Thursday in Scranton, Pennsylvania.
Or like this?
"Gallup just gave us the highest rating ever for the way we are handling the CoronaVirus situation. The April 2009-10 Swine Flu, where nearly 13,000 people died in the U.S., was poorly handled."
Or maybe because HE said why he would prefer the people to stay on the cruise?
"“I like the numbers being where they are. I don’t need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn’t our fault.”
Assumptions abound. Your logic is fair, but still an assumption unsupported by the context.
GA
GA,
I have not focused on the particular instance regarding the blocking of ships to be able to make any real comment. I need to gather some info. But, I was pi$$ed about his blaming Obama for the crisis. That does not give me a warm fuzzy about how he is handling things generally.
My statement about personal attacks was meant for those within the hub pages community. Everybody knows that I don't like Trump neither as President nor as a man, and there are not too many people that I can say that about. But, I will be neither petty nor unreasonable even in regards to him.
But if he gets out of line, I certainly have an expletive or two placed on reserve for him and or any member of his administration. However, if he does something right I will admit it grudgingly, although it will be akin to having water run uphill.
They say if the shoe fits....Reasonable and rational, hmmm...
I too dislike how things are communicated, especially in times such as these by Trump.
But Trump doesn't direct his communicae towards the likes of me, he is directing it to those less interested in what Cable news has to say, or what the politicians in D.C. have to say... he is directing towards a large swath of Americans who don't watch CNN or FOX news for that matter.
But they do read tweets and spend hours perusing facebook.
He is very effective reaching them, in ways they understand and appreciate.
My concern is, as always, what is the alternative?
Impeaching him and Pence and letting Pelosi run the country?
Putting in a senile (and I do mean it, the man is mentally checked out half the time) Biden?
I'm telling you, I think the people funding the DNC want him to stay President, because the alternatives that are possible are more alarming than allowing him to remain.Ken, is blaming Obama for the virus as I illustrated in my comment any benefit for the large swath of Americans who do not watch either CNN or Fox?
Trump plays on the ignorance of his supporters?
I neither like nor trust Republicans, I will take a chance on virtually any Democrat in their stead.
I don't want the Dem "Establishment"to sabotage the objective by having Trump receiving another term because we can't get our act together.
From my perspective, Trump remaining is the he worse of all possible outcomes.No, not the worst... but I am in agreement, I want him out and Pence in.
Pence can remain calm, articulate an intelligent message, keep the populace from bickering with one another over politics at a time of growing crisis.
Trump is not the man to keep the population calm and feeling hopeful, he would be wise to just suspend all "press conferences" and stop taking questions from a hostile media all together... but he isn't smart enough to do that, and that is part of the problem.
These idiots that they give a press badge to, stir up such vitriol for their own self purpose... are willing to stir up panic, or make people doubt the nation's leadership at a time when our society is nearing the brink, all norms are at risk of collapsing if this gets to the level it did in China.
Because unlike China, we do not have an obedient population that is used to being under scrutiny, of having their rights taken away, or feeling the wrath of 'police state' justice.
Unlike China, when things start to break down, there is a percentage of people who won't remain isolated, they will be prowling the streets looking for victims, they will be invading homes, they will be breaking into food shelters and stores... they will force the government state/federal to enact Martial Law.
And the media, these obsessed anti-Trumpers, are helping bring such chaos to reality.Sounds like a doomsday scenario you've got there, Ken. If Trump kept his mouth shut about things he has no clue about--practically everything--the media would not have anything to report re his own words. But blame the media, as Trump does daily, if it makes you feel better about your choice of POTUS.
Ken, but Pence is very politically and socially conservative and is hardly a fit replacement for Trump in my eyes.
You suspend press conferences and you attract more suspicion and distrust. What are you hiding?
Trump should anticipate that the spotlight is going to be on him, his administration and his response to the crisis.
I don't think that we need to be talking about "martial law" as of yet.
The press isnt going to be fawning and it is their job to be adversarial, which serves as a constant reminder to our leaders who it is they actually work for.Pence is more articulate, calm, and commanding when necessary.
That is what the Nation needs to see and hear now, not some petty political bickering 'leader'. Neither Pelosi nor Trump are currently fit to fill the shoes of 'leader' of the House, or the Nation.
During 'normal' times, the Nation can weather such 'leadership', during a global crisis where little can be done to combat the cause of it (the pandemic cannot be stopped or controlled, only slowed) then the likes of Trump, Pelosi, and Biden are totally inadequate.
Bernie would be worse, someone who would want to implement severe political shifts during a crisis would only lead to backlash and violence during what will be an explosive situation, in fact, I would find few to be good choices... Pence comes across as one such person, level headed, comprehensive of the dire levity of the situation, and remaining calm under intense questioning (the guy has tolerated Trump for 3 years AND the media).
You don't have to call it Martial Law, but whatever they label it, it will come into effect shortly, maybe state by state, maybe federally. But its coming, just a matter of a week, or two weeks.Well, I never thought I'd hear myself say this, but I'd certainly prefer Pence right now. Sure, he believes in Spaghetti Monsters more than science, but I think he gets the gravity of this situation and takes it seriously and manages not to allow himself to say whatever pops into his tiny, little mind. He's very religious and I have yet to hear him say the solution to all this is prayer.
When the sh.. hits the fan, even the Mike Pences of the world know where to get their answers.I agree, he is less divisive and not interested in scoring points or soothing his ego.
That said, Trump is right when he says the true enemy of the American people is the media... they serve their own egos, corporate interests, and foreign interests (as they are owned by billionaires and foreign corporations) and the 'media' has proven it can go way lower than Trump.
People who watch CNN and the likes and think they are getting news I consider "sheeple" who are allowing themselves to be programmed by those that do not have their best interests in mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtPwEzqGe6gWhich media source isn't partisan, Ken? Youtube? A lot of these videos are manipulated you know....
The media is not the enemy of the people. That's something Trump says for his own convenience.
The MSM was the enemy long before Trump came along to expose it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH8dejYGa5A
From 7 years ago, long before Trump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM8L7bdwVaA
Another from 7 years ago... shown by Conan no less.
Don't be sheeple. Free your mind.
Turn off CNN, MSNBC, FOX, learn to think for yourself.I notice many from the Right prefer Youtube over real news.
Willingly ignorant people are fun to watch as they try and bash others who are putting forth information they cannot comprehend and have no logical counter for.
They resort to insults and name calling.
All the while thinking they know what they are talking about. Sheeple.
Ken, is it the media or is the media just the mirror being held up?
Reports of crowds at beaches all over the country.
How is it possible people can be this stupid?
As President Trump said earlier this week:
“We are all in this together. We must put politics aside, stop the partisanship and unify together as one nation and one family. As history has proven time and time again, Americans always rise to the challenge and overcome adversity. Our future remains brighter than anyone can imagine. Acting with compassion and love, we will heal the sick, care for those in need, help our fellow citizens, and emerge from this challenge stronger and more unified than ever before.”
In the meantime, the world goes on, politics goes on. We are still in an election year and the attacks on President Trump have not only not slowed down; rather they are picking up speed at a virulent pace. The Left isn’t thinking about unity and bipartisanship in this time of crisis. They are hell bent on taking down this President and achieving power. No matter the cost.The fury in your comment misses the point that Sharlee is trying to make.
I am so pleased to see you understood my sentiment. I certainly was unsure anyone would. I was not even sure my sentiment would be appropriate on a political forum. This virus makes all of us and our loved ones vulnerable. In this scenario we are not bound by a political party, we are bound by our humanness.
"In the meantime, the world goes on, politics goes on. We are still in an election year and the attacks on President Trump have not only not slowed down; rather they are picking up speed at a virulent pace. The Left isn’t thinking about unity and bipartisanship in this time of crisis. They are hell-bent on taking down this President and achieving power. No matter the cost."
Not sure what citizens on the left are thinking. I see your point, in regards to media coverage. However, and I am not sure my feeling is shared. I feel we are a small community here on this Political forum. I for one feel like I have gotten to know some of the users, their personalities, their passions, their interests, just through their comments. I see all as individuals and do respect hearing their opinions (even when I don't agree). I have a feeling this virus concerns us all in one respect or another in a personal fashion. I just felt we could put down our defenses, and share our true concerns.
And, I agree with your opinion on much of what you shared in your comment. However, I am just addressing the small group that is occupying this forum on HP. Plus we have a thread alive and well in regard to the political aspects of the virus. Thought we could have a space to share other feelings than the political "stuff ".
I appreciate your comment, and see where you are coming from.To your point. There's obvious political interests in some, as a bonus. But Im sure 99% of the people criticizing Trump about his response to Coronavirus emergency is not because "they want to take down" Trump "no matter the cost". Most of us are just worried and saw how he was minimizing the threat of the virus and misinforming people. Most of his followers were taking him serious, even when the CDC was contradicting him. So yeah, we knew it was going to be a problem if he kept doing that.
For instance, him saying he didn't need a test, even when more than once he was in contact with people with coronavirus. Even worse, kept shaking hand, and so on. Why do I care? I find it to be irresponsible, because people could think "I agree, Im going to do the same".
I don't like Trump, but I didn't want him to get coronavirus. I don't like Trump, but I didn't want him to fail because that means more sick and dead people. That means I could get sick, my kids could get sick, my family could get sick.
Bottom line, the ones saying Trump detractors wanted Coronavirus to spread to take down the president are projecting themselves.IB "To your point. There's obvious political interests in some, as a bonus. But Im sure 99% of the people criticizing Trump about his response to Coronavirus emergency is not because "they want to take down" Trump "no matter the cost"."
The first paragraph of my comment was a quote I was responding to, a statement another made. I made no such remark as to "they want to take Trump down." Below the quote I was responding to is my feelings on the subject.
I am a realist. The president has set the precedence with his response to the virus. he as well as Congress are doing a very good job with the response. Not sure if you heard the president of Brazil was not positive for the virus. The story was false and repeated over and over by our media. It is true the president of Brazil's aid was positive for the virus. And Trump was tested after those facts were presented.
Yes, I can understand your concern over some of the president's comments. Some were quoted properly, some were misrepresented. It seems we live in a time we must look for truth in reporting. It can get tiresome, but necessary.
IB "Bottom line, the ones saying Trump detractors wanted Coronavirus to spread to take down the president are projecting themselves."
I did not convey that message in my comment.
- PrettyPantherposted 5 years ago
0I agree with credence's post. It is our responsibility as citizens to monitor and evaluate our leaders at all times, including the times of crisis.
I refrain from criticism of Trump in my offline life, though, unless I know for certain I am speaking with a reality-based person. "I want to keep the numbers where they are." Who said that?
Context matters.
Washington Post
"He was asked if passengers on a cruise ship anchored near San Francisco, some of whom have been exposed to the virus, should be brought ashore.
“From my standpoint, I want to rely on people. I have great experts, including our vice president who is working 24 hours a day on this stuff. They would like to have the people come off,” he said, wearing a baseball cap promoting his reelection campaign. “I’d rather have the people stay, but I’d go with them. I told them to make the final decision.”
“I would rather because I like the numbers being where they are,” Trump continued. “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault. And it wasn't the fault of the people on the ship either, okay? It wasn't their fault either and they're mostly Americans. So, I can live either way with it. I'd rather have them stay on, personally.”
And the context seems to show he was talking about controlling the virus spread—not maintaining an election edge. Isn't fighting to control the spread what you want him to do?
The context also seems to show that the decision to block the ships wasn't his, but one of an agency that exists for just such decision-making purposes.
Once more it seems a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't. Even when the decision wasn't made by him. Allow the blockage and be criticized for endangering the other ship passengers, or allow it to dock and be criticized for endangering the continent's passengers.
GAYeah, well, we all know Trump's level of empathy, compassion, and selfless decision making and interpret his words and actions accordingly. I don't think it is out of line to do so. He has made his own bed in this regard.
That sounds like you are saying the original claim is true because that's what you think of the man.
His clear words; " I want to rely on people. I have great experts, including our vice president who is working 24 hours a day on this stuff." . . . "but I’d go with them. I told them to make the final decision.” don't matter to you? (of course, that is a rhetorical question)
GANo, I am not saying it is true. I am saying I don't believe it would be unreasonable to interpret it that way given what we know of Trump.
If there was no information other than "what we know of Trump" you would be right that it is not unreasonable to jump to that conclusion. But there is other contradicting information available to anyone that looks for it.
GA
Isn't that the point? To "damn" Trump no matter what actions he takes?
Trump is "damning" himself and the country with his misleading statements, Dan. Are we not to be concerned? Even 56% of Republicans don't like how he's handling the crisis compared to 84% of Democrats not liking it either.
Is the Right bashing him for no reason, or are they the smart ones from the Right?Several of my Trumper friends are still convinced it is an overblown non-crisis. Of course, they continue to gather in groups at the local brewery owned by a Trump fan, shaking hands, hugging, etc., and sharing it all on Facebook.
Randy, calm down. At this point, Trump is damming no one or the country. he is doing everything he can to alleviate all aspects of the problems being created by this virus. He is doing things we have never seen done in a flu crisis. Just time to stop bashing him on this point. Plenty of other things you can revert to bash President Trump. You don't have to give him credit, but give him a freakin break on how he is handling this flu.
Hopefully, this all goes away quickly, and then those that need to can't vent on Trump's handling of this crisis.I'll give Trump a "freaking break" when he stops lying about the situation, Shar. But for now, he's simply confusing people with his contradictory messages.
He has apparently caused a lot of confusion with his statements. It would be better for all if he just worked on the problem, and stopped trying to explain what is going on. I am appreciative to hear those around him, as Dr. Fauci. Right now I think he is the most important person on Trump's team. He is straight forward, provides the facts.
In this we agree, Shar. My point was Trump needs to stay in the background and let those who actually know what they're talking about do the speaking. When he talks, it confuses his base.
The rest of us simply ignore him.Here's my point, people will die because of Trump's persistent misinformation and lies. And many of them will be his supporters, which will be highly ironic and sad, given that many of them are old.
Thank you! My God does anyone get their news from anywhere but a soundbite or a headline? As I have said many times before --- Where the hell is our society heading? This kind of twisted media reporting has captured those that simply are willing to trust in whatever they say. "Put it out there no matter how bizarre I will eat it up..."
I will throw you a bone here and say that I agree about soundbites being a big problem. Twitter is a big culprit and I'm not saying that to be facetious. Just ironic.
The man MUST go! If you want to call that THING a man!
If the country collapses due to bipartisan bickering and lack of unity in the face of a global pandemic that will have far reaching economic consequences for months, even years to come... it DOESN'T matter!
Whatever it takes, however many freedoms sacrificed, no matter the lives lost, no matter the depths to which our national economy falls... if the world falters it is worth it, to have him removed.
You are either with the CAUSE or you are against it, there is no middle ground, there is no room for rationality, reason, or context!
Randy, the context of his statement was he hoped to keep the numbers down in regards to who acquires the Virus. This saddens me to see such vitriol. It really is time to consider listing to full statements and not a soundbite. The president was clearly referring to keeping the count of cases down. Time to stop! The president, as well as our Congress, is doing every possible thing they can to prevent more citizens from getting the virus. Actual most of the measures have set a precedence.
So why is he claiming Google will have a Coronavirus website up and running in a very short time, when Google claims it's not the case at all?
Are such "misleading" statements helpful in the current situation? Are Trump's misleading statements supposed to convince people he actually knows what he's talking about?
This isn't a time for him to purposely give people false info, or do you disagree? We'd all be better off if he'd just keep his mouth shut about the virus...and he would as well. He just keeps digging a deeper hole for himself.
https://www.wired.com/story/coronavirus … e-website/
Another useless lie exposed. What a leader!
From GA: "But if he gets out of line, I certainly have an expletive or two placed on reserve for him and or any member of his administration."
I'm wondering if the recent "really bad reporter" response by Trump qualifies as getting our of line?
To me, this is beyond unacceptable, considering the circumstances. I took to FB and said basically that anyone who things this is acceptable can kiss my behind.I couldn't find 'my' quote in this thread hard sun, but if you replace "expletive" with criticism I could go along with that thought.
As for your "reporter" thought, I agree, mostly. However, there are some reporters whose only intention is to get in 'gotcha' questions. That should be unacceptable too.
GAThe quote is pretty far back in this thread. I just went through the whole thing cause haven't been here too much. This one deserves a bunch of expletives in my book!
I agree with the "gotcha" question exception. However, I can also say that Trump helped to bring more of those questions on when he started his whole enemy of the people spiel and what not. I mean, most Presidents attempt to court the media in some way. Two wrongs don't make a right as they say though.
EDIT: The quote was from Credence. Apologies. I need more coffee.Yeah, that sounds like Cred. And yes, I agree that Pres. Trump brings much of his press problem to himself.
GA
Really is a bitch, isn't it?
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