First of all, the flu is killing more people still.
Second, President Trump says that the coronavirus will go away soon. Why can't people just have faith in our President. He says there's nothing to worry about.
I don"t believe Anything that Trump says.
But I do think that a lot of this sensation stuff is hype. This is a long way from the influenza pandemic of 1918.
The thing is, it's unknown how far reaching it will be, or whether an inoculation will be effective in curbing the spread. Hopefully, it will be a short lived virus.
Some infectious disease experts have modeled the spread and say it could reach 2/3rds of the planet.
The other problem is China. Some reputable people with connections there say the actual number of infected and dead is massively higher.
President Trump says President Xi has things under control. No need to worry. Nothing to see. Move along.
Yeah, seems that it spreads pretty easily. I am sure that China is not being candid about the true extent of casualties from the virus.
It is just seems that every year something always comes and goes.
Yes, it's times like these we need a POTUS we can believe. Remember the retaliatory missile strike to the base in Iraq? First there were only a few minor injuries, but the tally kept increasing as the weeks rolled by.
You can't trust Donnie, especially with anything important.
And the conspiracy theorists are at it. They are publishing sources that say this virus is incurable, deadly and has killed far more people than China has admitted. So whom do you believe, Trump or the conspiracy theorists?
We sure can't believe the Chinese government. Instead, I believe the infectious disease scientists and anyone with some credibility who has deep connections with China.
A Chinese website called Epoch Times, which is outside of the country, has those kinds of connections. So do other Chinese expatriates.
The "official" death rate actually is growing and now up to 3.4%. There isn't enough respiratory equipment to treat everyone who has a serious case of it.
Lots of misinformation on the virus on the internet as well as the media. I prefer to follow the stats and CDC information. I found a good site that is updating stats on the virus for every country. In some countries it has showed a slight improvement, others not so much... At this point, I would not believe it incurable due to the high rate of cure. Many that have it have mild symptoms. It appears to be most deadly to the elderly. I don't think enough is known about this virus to predict how virulent it will be in the future. Some scientist is saying it will be around for some time, and people will slowly build antibodies to it. As well as the rate of occurrence will slow with a vaccine. One would hope the precautions being taken from the state to state, as well as the travel restrictions will help with a decreasing rate of infection this season.
The public heard Trump BRAG, "I knew about the virus before anyone else." We heard him call it "a hoax." And all heard him blame Dems and Obama.
Admit it. Trump is about as trustworthy as a ravenous cobra. But go right ahead in live in Trump world. No one will care if you follow his stupid prescriptions as Dr Trumpenstein's magic elixir that cures all.
Its a tester.
To be clear, it is real, it was a problem for China, but the reactions are overblown, and one has to wonder how much of it is deliberate.
To quote the Bank of International Settlements from sometime in the final quarter of 2018:
"Some markets will continue to get stronger in the U.S. while most of the rest or the world falters... U.S. Markets will be strong (safe haven) for the next 18 months at the expense of the rest of the world. Central Bank and U.S. Politics will turn it sharply negative 17-18 months from now, China and EU then stabilize, American market falters."
This has been in the plannings for a while now. The U.S. Market is obviously taking a historic downturn, with no end in sight to its fall at the moment, and on the back end I expect to see China's market come out the stronger for it... as well as China having secured control over Hong Kong.
I believe we are into the transition of power from America to China and International organizations like the WB and IMF controlling the global reserves and economic ques.
This is how such a transition occurs, painfully, with trigger events like a "pandemic" acting as the catalysts. In addition we have the OPEC/Russian decision to open the floodgates on oil production, this in turn will bankrupt the oil efforts her in America, fracking especially, and this in turn will put people out of work, and cause smaller banks to fail that backed these ventures.
Interesting times ahead for sure.
Scientists have been warning for years that preparation for a pandemic needs to happen, but nobody in government listens. With adequate preparation, we could have been in a position to stop this.
Interesting that most vaccines, most masks, and most everything related to prevention of such things are produced in... China.
I have documentation right here in front of me (unfortunately I am about to become more familiar with this topic than I care to).
Interestingly the figures in front of me say that Ebola had a 40.40% fatality rate, MERS had a 34.40% fatality rate, and currently Corona Virus has a 29.23% fatality rate.
This is information being put out by an international corporation, to thousands of employees, the information is either very misleading (incorrect), or the danger of this virus is far more severe than is public knowledge in the U.S.
For instance a quick look at "official" information available online looks like:
WHO Director-General Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus stated:
“Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died. By comparison, seasonal flu generally kills far fewer than 1% of those infected.”
"It is estimated that more than half the people infected do not realize or do not report their symptoms, dealing with it as they would the flu or common virus"
So all things considered, a worst case scenario is that 1.7% of the people who become infected die. A far cry from the 29.23% that is being propagated in this official company advisory disclosure I am reading.
No doubt many of those who read this documentation will take the numbers to heart and be in fear for their lives, adding to the general panic and fear overall.
That is correct. Most of my geek crowd have been expecting it.
We could not have stopped it. How is anybody supposed to predict what a new virus will looks like when it emerges? Pharmacologists are working 24x7 to find a vaccine - I know that because my sister is one of them.
My aunts and uncles were all born around the early 1900s. So they knew all about that influenza. There were no antibiotics specific for the treatment of influenza. Today there is.
There were also not the same number of doctors, nurses or hospitals as there are today and there were NO respirators and not even the iron lungs used for victims of the late 1940s polio epidemic were developed.
There is no hype when a single state reports hundreds of deaths in a matter of a week's time. There is NO hype when the National Guard has to build makeshift hospitals because the hospitals cannot handle the overflow of those infected with viruses.
And there is NO hype when you hear doctors and nurses begging for PPE, respirators and surgical masks.
There is only Trump's BS.
Hey, Event, I did say that 6 weeks ago, there has been a cardinal change in our circumstances since then.
But Trump's BS is as always the immutable constant whether 6 weeks ago, today, or 6 weeks from now.
With Trump, it comes down to one thing: He has forever lost public trust. If he knew as he claimed "before anyone else," why didn't he inform the medical communities and medical supply manufacturers in December when he claims he knew?
He waited 2 months before he bothered to even pay any attention to how many death Washington State already had from the virus in February.
If Governors of 50 states have to do the job of the Fed, it is time to cut off the Federal taxes we pay. What are they for if not for a major crisis?
Trump has proven beyond a doubt that the insider Federal government HE now totally controls expects the states to hand him federal tax dollars for his wheeling and dealing all while he demands states pay for it all.
Don't wonder why he will not be re-elected in 2020. Everything he does in government is one huge corporate porker deal that makes him a personal profit.
Now we find out that the reason he delayed the testing kit dispersals was to get his own crony company he has investments in to do the manufacturing.
But oh boy if Obama or Hillary had EVER pulled off what this bum has, they'd both be in orange jumpsuits.
The DOJ is not the legislative branch of government and doesn't make the laws for the entire country based on what Trump wants. Our only laws come from the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Not to mention Kushner's brother runs a company involved in the testing.If anyone wondered why the US refused to accept testing kits from China--when 60 other countries accepted them--and waited two months to develop their own, then this info may explain why.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/p … -who-test/
Your comment -- "With Trump, it comes down to one thing: He has forever lost public trust. If he knew as he claimed "before anyone else," why didn't he inform the medical communities and medical supply manufacturers in December when he claims he knew?"
I have to ask where did you get such an opinion that Trump said he knew about this virus in Dec? The timeline does not match your opinion. Please add a resource where the Pressident made that comment.
Sadly, Ewent, I think that short a full scale disaster Trump will be reelected.
1. Because the democrats are so divided, which is being exploited by the Right in every possible way.
2. Short of economic catastrophe, it is very hard to dislodge an incumbent seeking a second term. History has shown that.
3. The Trumpbots will stand by their man for reasons of cultural and racial insecurity. When defending that, he could assassinate the Pope and he would do no wrong.
While I am not totally confident of my view, I think Trump will be defeated in November IF turnout is not suppressed. Remember, Trump won by only 80000 votes in three states against a candidate with very high negatives. Biden definitely has his problems but they are not much different from Trump's problems, and he is much more well liked than Clinton was.
However, if turnout is suppressed because of the virus or any other reason, Trump will win, If turnout is very high, Trump will lose by a lot. I will try to find an article I read while back that explains thus using extensive analysis of every voting district.
All I can say, Panther, is I hope that you are right and would be delighted to find my prediction in error.
Making the excuses already... how about trying some reality.
Who the heck are you voting for to replace him?
You think people are going to support senile creepy Joe?
I'm just curious how you imagine Americans are going to come out by the tens of millions to put him in office... he's not charismatic, he is creepy... he's not more competent than Trump, he is senile... and he is as corrupt as anyone in DC.
So no... there is no reason why people who want change would support Biden... to most, he's something even worse than Trump.
Doesn't matter if he has the (D) beside his name... most people recognize the Dems like Biden and Pelosi and Clinton are full of crap... they promise whatever they need to, and then they screw the American people until its time to promise more lies, and label the opposition again.
Until the Democratic Party becomes a party of the people again (rather than puppets of the Corporations and CCP) they will not be able to garner the support of the Independants, the Libertarians, the Moderates, etc. those who would like an alternative to Trump... but not the filth that is being offered now.
I posted some links. Did you read them? I am relying on a forecast model done by the only person to accurately predict the extent of the 2018 blue wave. I didn't just pull it out of my @as or say, "some people say" or "I'm hearing" like your hero does. Maybe if I did a YouTube video.... ;-)
No, I did not read them, I am not interested in a model, or a survey or a poll.
If you want to believe people will support Biden over Trump, I am sure you can find enough models and polls to support that belief.
But its not even within the realm of probability, unless voter turn out is suppressed.
Maybe that is what happened to Bernie, the DNC rigged Super Tuesday to ensure it was Biden and not Bernie... but I don't think they have that type of control over the Presidential election.
I thought you said there would be massive panic with people killing each other, Ken? So far, crime is down for most places in the US. Kinda ruins your faith in human beings, right?
"So no... there is no reason why people who want change would support Biden... to most, he's something even worse than Trump."
So you feel comfortable speaking for "most who want change?" I want change from Trump, so you don't speak for me.
Yeah, sure is... and this isn't over yet.
You go, Ken! Everyone knows Joe Biden is a guy who touches women against their will. And he's like 100 years old. He shouldn't be driving a car much less driving the country. And he's exactly the kind of man who is everything Trump voters voted against - a career politician.
Those independents and those Democrats who crossed over to vote for Trump did so because they were sick of being served up candidates like Hillary Clinton when they want somebody with new ideas. And now they're being served up Joe Biden. Even liberals Democrats are pissed off. Who's going to vote for this guy. Trump is going to keep his movement going.
I know Lucas agrees! I'm getting all my news from Lucas now.
What is so funny about this post, other than the last sentence, is how prophetic it will appear 7 months from now.
Correction --- "You go, Ken! Everyone knows Joe Biden is a guy who touches women against their will'
You go, Ken! Everyone knows Joe Biden is a guy who forcibly holds a woman down and sticks his fingers in her vagina women. Oh, and against their will.
Otherwise, your comment is pure gold, we must keep it factual.
That's right. He's a new member of the Trump club. Ask E. Jean Carroll.
So true, but this one belongs to the DNC. LOL
Ms. Reede filed a criminal complaint 13 hours age.
"A woman who accused Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden of sexually assaulting her when she worked for him in 1993 has filed a formal criminal complaint with the Washington, DC, police about the alleged incident, Business Insider has learned."
"Tara Reade says she told police that Biden assaulted her in a Senate corridor, shoving his hand under her skirt and penetrating her with his fingers. She was a staffer in his Senate office at the time. The statute of limitations for the alleged assault has passed. "
https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-sexu … de-1497391
I am not aware of any criminal charges being filed on Trump for sexual abuse. I am certainly aware of the one l
So what right? Morals have no relevancy to being the President right. Why should anyone care about this if they were supposed to overlook that Trump is entirely morally inept.
Would you vote for Biden after being brought aware of this rape allegation? So, I guess if most Dems adopt your sentiment Biden has no chance of winning the election. If you cast your vote for Biden it would certainly make you a hypocrite, would it not?
There are many reasons why I would never vote for Trump.The analogy is false.
Really, so at this point, I would believe you have had a great Epiphany, and now can ignore sexual abuse and look at other wonderful attributes Biden has. You are willing to overlook rape for all the other great things Biden can offer our Country...
Conversation over... Not willing to go any further your logic escapes me. But don't fear there are some here that will adopt your logic very quickly.
Here is the link I promised.
Does anyone understand the 2020 race? This scholar nailed the blue wave — here's her forecast
You can not really compare the two. As we have much faster communication and a better healthcare system (worldwide) today. Also, the WHO didn't exist back then to monitor worldwide epidemics like those.
I said that a few weeks ago, I underestimated the seriousness of this pandemic.
In 1918, technology was not at the point that they could see and identify a virus as opposed to a bacterial agent which it was they were looking for to develop a vaccine.
Today things have moved along, but the "bugs" are evolving and are becoming clever with each passing age, while we don't have 1918 challenges, the ones for 2020 are just as daunting. I fear of future pestilence that will defy the efforts of modern medicine's to eradicate it.
It's great for nature though. Fewer people die because of air pollution and water contamination. Bees are coming back.
The lockdown is the best thing that could happen against the climate crisis (which is a bigger threat than the "bugs" in my opinion.)
There will always be bugs. And I don't think they are clever but they for sure adapt faster then humans can make medicine. That's how nature works. We are not above it. That's always been a false premise I believe. I think we should start to live with nature and not against it. As the bio-industry, the wet markets, the dairy industry, are ruining this planet.
The lockdown is a good time for contemplation. Do we need all this electronic shit? Every year a new phone, every month a new charger cable, constantly consuming.
Maybe something good will come all out if and people start to realize how important other people are and less so the plastic products etc.
If the virus becomes a pandemic the implications are wider than the number of people who could die. The impact on the global economy would be huge. Supplies of some manufacturing components sourced in China have already been reduced, impacting in prices and on businesses who need the components.
I am in the at risk group.Have a flight to Venice booked for early May but will cancel if the virus isn’t contained by then,
President Trump says you have nothing to worry about. It'll all be over by then.
Why does that not give me confidence
Just watched him and some talking suit on the news. They said it would take something over 6 months just to test the efficacy of any new vaccine.
So no, it will NOT be over by May and they gave no indication that it would.Trump (being Trump) DID say that he hopes that by May that America will be clear, though.
Now the first case of the virus is reported in Northern California with no known contact with another coronavirus victim.
This is not a good sign....
Clear but no "in and out?"
?? You lost me, Diane.
I think you are being wise. I was just about to make reservations for a group to Slovenia and on to the Bosnian Pyramids in early May, which I've been dying to see. But not literally, so I've decided to stay home and sit this trip out. Hopefully they will go again next spring. I was going to book until the virus hit Italy. That's too close.
I'm with you. My wife and I were trying to plan a two week cruise through northern Europe, but I can't imagine a better breeding ground for this (or any other) virus than a cruise ship.
Still way better odds of catching and dying from the flu.
That one went over my head - somehow your point escapes me.
But we ARE re-thinking our plans; do we want to take that risk (that seems to be growing every day) or put it off until next summer.
I'm just saying you should be more worried about the flu. The coronavirus is not a particularly big threat when compared to the normal, everyday flu we all take for granted.
You a have missed the point. One of the reasons that there is so much concern internationally is that if this becomes a pandemic there will be a disastrous downturn in the economy. Already the stock market has plunged, the airline and travel industries have seen a downturn. The main issue is that so many people will become unwell for work that havoc will be created in industry, commerce, and public services, all of which would experience staffing problems.Hopefully the virus can be contained but don’t underestimate the potential impact if it isn’t.
Not only that, but we really have no clue how many people are ill with the virus. People with the symptoms aren't being routinely tested for the virus as the lack of available test kits prevent such actions.
The lady in Northern California who tested positive for it had been sick for over two weeks before they found out it was indeed the Coronavirus.
In her case, they could find no contact she had with anyone carrying the virus. So there's that...
Could you stop your grumbling, please? President Trump says it will all be over soon.
I wouldn't buy a used bicycle from the Don! He probably stole it from some school child.
Are you trying to provoke a debate about President Trump?Trust me, we have enough problems of our own in the U.K. without becoming involved in yours.
It is also affecting our imports that come from China, and that includes much of our medications. Remember, we weren't allowed to buy those "dangerous" medications from Europe through Canada. We had to buy the "safe" more expensive meds from China. Today on the news it was reported that our NSAIDS (ibuprofen, acetaminophen, etc.) all came from China. and there would be a shortage. I didn't hear if aspirin was on the list, but I'll guess that it was.
I wonder if we'll now be allowed to buy prescription medications from Europe. I've never understood why we had to pay such high prices for prescriptions and the Europeans weren't because "we were paying for R & D" and the Europeans were exempt from bearing those costs when our meds were coming from China.
Guess we'd better stock up before supplies run out.
The U.K. government subsidises drugs issued by the NHS. Prescription prices are fixed by the government in the annual budget. Prescriptions for children, people receiving State benefits, and 60+ are currently free of charge. Everyone else who wants a prescription filled pays £9 per item in 2020. A small number of very expensive drugs are assessed as too expensive for the NHS to subsidise and are only available privately.
Each month the Business arm of NHS Issues a Drugs Tariff to pharmacies which tells the pharmacy what the NHS will pay for any approved drug issued on prescription. Clearly, the pharmacies are incentivised to purchase the cheapest drugs from manufacturers in order to maximise their profits/avoid losses.
The cost of R and D of drugs is reflected in all patented drugs, regardless of where they are developed. As soon as the patent expires other manufacturers start to produce the drug and the price comes down. Example - Zantac, developed by Glaxo, was the worlds best-selling drug for stomach issues and during the life of the patent the shares in Glaxo were highly-priced. When the patent expired the share price of Glaxo nose dived in the short/medium term because other manufacturers copied the drug and sold at greatly reduced prices. I guess the price of these generic copies depends on both wage rates and import tariffs.
Within the EU trade is tariff-free, and the EU has a tariff arrangement with Canada. The U.K. is currently in a 1 year transition period, having left the EU. Unless the government can negotiate a free trade deal with the EU the cost to us of drugs imported from EU countries will increase. Our (dreadful) government is currently occupied trying to negotiate trade deals with countries outside the EU - so our drugs might well in future be coming from China, India - or the US.
I think I'm kind of being sarcastic because we should have been able to buy drugs from Europe anyway. Somebody a few years ago was given the explanation as to why we had to pay so much for American-made pharmaceuticals when the Europeans paid like $1.70 per prescription for the same drug. We were told that it was because we were paying for the R & D. Nobody explained that Europeans had their meds subsidized by their governments. I found that out when I was paying $325 a month for Lyrica with insurance and a manufacturers coupon and discovered that Australians were paying $69 a month for it. My doctor was trying to get licensed in Australia so he could prescribe it and his patients could buy it from there. We wouldn't get the $69 price, but it would still be much cheaper than the American price. I got it from Mexico for a few months for $30, but then I kind of lost my source. After I dropped my employer's insurance and got on Medicare, I paid about $100 a month for it. I'm not on it anymore because the side effects started outweighing the benefits.
Why Crankalicious? There is a vaccine for the flu that will prevent most people from catching it. Not everyone, of course. My husband caught it in spite of his VA administered flu shot. I got my shot elsewhere and haven't caught the flu although I took care of him when he was sick. He's back on his feet now. So far there is no vaccine for the coronavirus.
Really, that's like a tin can full of recycled viruses. I was also thinking about being cooped up in an airplane on a TransAtlantic flight, too.
And now I saw on the news that the virus has been found in several of the countries we were to visit - Estonia, Denmark, etc. Which means that 4,000 people all taking a shore excursion may be exposed and then get back on board. Where I am.
Trump says it's no big deal, Dan. Don't you trust him?
About as much as I trust any politician. Far less than you trust the Democratic party in other words.
I am flying to London on Tuesday, to Portugal the following MOnday, back to London the following Friday, to Cape Town the following Friday, to Houston the following week, to San Diego four weeks later, etc. I'm biting my nails over here.
If you don't have the virus already, you might after spending so much time with others in so many airplanes, Tess. Be careful!
Yup. but all of this was booked 6 months ago, and I can't cancel any of it now. I'm taking every precaution I can. Am anxious, though.
Oh yes because it's not like politicians in general haven't lied before to prevent mass hysteria, or keep us in the dark about things, while hiding most of the truth from us...oh wait.....
I have been doing some reading on the virus. Coronaviruses (CoV) are a large family of viruses that cause illness ranging from the common cold to more severe diseases such as Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS-CoV) and Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS-CoV). A novel coronavirus (nCoV) is a new strain that has not been previously identified in humans and comes from animals and seafood.
What I ascertain there are two avenues the virus may follow. So, how will the world rid itself of the virus? Experts say one possibility is that cases of the disease will start decreasing when enough people develop natural immunity, as we have with the common cold. or through vaccination. Which some are doubtful a vaccine can be produced, as it is imposable to innoculate against the common cold.
One other possible scenario is that the virus will continue to circulate and establish itself as a common respiratory virus that would need to be treated with medication such as Tamiflu.
It appears as of today many Pharma companies are working on both medications, and hoping to develop a vaccine.
So, perhaps Trump should not have said there is nothing to worry about. In my opinion, this virus is going to be something we will be dealing with for some time in one respect or another. There are many reports that claim China is not being truthful about the number of those infected, as well as deaths for the virus.
It does appear America has a handle on curbing the spread of the virus for now. The government was quick to enforce travel bans and are today consider more travel bans from Italy and South Korea.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/02/coronav … tions.html
I guess we don't have anything to worry about. Trump says it's just a hoax perpetuated by the Democrats anyway.
Well, if the president says so...
So, a president trying to allay fears is not a good thing?
It's not a good thing when the President tells people with coronavirus to go to work.
Are you trying to get people to believe he said that, or are you just outright making the claim? Either way it's called a lie - are you channeling Trump?
As usual, you try to provoke an argument when none need exist.
"If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better, just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work, some of them go to work, but they get better."
It's an outright lie to claim that Trump didn't encourage people to go to work in that statement. Are you channeling him once again?
He was referring to year influenza. One needs to listen to the entire conversation to get the context of what Trump meant. He was not suggesting anyone with the Coronavirus return to work while ill.
Sorry, no. The full quotes show the conversation was clearly about coronavirus.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/0 … ate-121892
He clearly did not tell people with Coronavirus to go to work. He was clearly referring to people that could have the virus unknowingly get well quickly without complications or even seeing a doctor and return to work. He was discussing where the percentage rate of people that are dying. He referred to many cases are not in the count when he spoke of people that were ill quickly recovered without even being confirmed of having the virus and just returned to work. These people if counted naturally would change the percentage of death from the virus.
Here’s the entirety of Trump’s response, followed by the video.
"I think the 3.4 percent [number] is really a false number. Now, this is just my hunch, but based on and lot of conversations with a lot of people that do this, because a lot of people will have this and it is very mild. They will get better very rapidly, they don’t even see a doctor or call doctor, you never hear about those people so you can’t put them down in the category, in overall population in terms of this corona flu, or virus. So you just can’t do that.
So if, you know, we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better, just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work, some of them go to work, but they get better and then when you do have a death as you had in the state of Washington like you had one in California, I believe you had one in New York, you know, all of a sudden it seems like 3 or 4 percent, which is a very high number, as opposed to a fraction of 1 percent.
But again, they don’t know about the easy cases because the easy cases don’t go to the hospital, they don’t report to doctors or the hospital in many cases so I think that [the WHO] number is very high. I think the number, personally, I would say the number is way under 1 percent.
Now, with the regular flu, we average from 27,000 to 77,000 deaths a year. Who would think that? I never knew that until six or eight weeks ago, I asked that question, I said, ‘How many people die of the flu?’ You know, you keep hearing about ‘flu shot, flu shot, take your flu shot,’ but how many people die of the flu? And they said, ‘sir, we lose between 27,000 and, you know, somewhere in the 70s’ — I think we went as high as 100,000 people died in 1990, if you can believe that, but a lot much people regardless. I think it averages about 36,000 people a year. So I said, ‘Wow, that is a percentage that is under 1 percent, very substantially.’ So it’d be interesting to see what difference is but again, a lot of people don’t report"
I did not appreciate his tone or lack of concern about this virus. But he clearly was not encouraging people to return to work. he was giving an example of what could be occurring with many people that may or may not have the virus not being confirmed and taking it upon themselves to return to work. And he seemed only concerned that these people were not counted to bring down a percentage he did not believe as true, do to many citizens not being confirmed as having the virus, and not being counted.
CNN should have never reported Trump encouraged those that had coronavirus to return to work. Thia is once more a fake news report.
"IF we have thousands..."
This is hardly suggesting that it should be done. Just noting that people will have the virus without even knowing it, and as I said to Mike, I agree with him. An awful lot of people will work through it without ever knowing what it is they have.
So yes, it is an outright lie that he told people to do it. Just more exaggeration and twisting his words into what they were not.
At this point, most people don't take Trump seriously, no matter what he's talking about.
And there you have it. Doesn't matter WHAT he says, it will be spun into something different. Something the haters can whine about and call a lie or, at a minimum, really stupid.
No, actually, no matter what stupid, mean, or dangerous comment or tweet Trump makes, you'll be right there defending, minimizing, or pretending he didn't say what he said.
A president who lies about his own inauguration is not a good thing. If a president lies about such a trivial thing, why believe him in other matters?
That said. I completely agree that the coronavirus is hyped up by the media. More people die yearly of the ordinary flue. And you don't read anything in the newspapers about that one.
He lies so much... how can anyone believe him?
I think it's just people living in fear. That's what bothers me.
Normally I’m not into conspiracies but to me the Corona virus looks like a great excuse to let the next financial crises happen that economic experts are predicting for 2020/2021.
Blame the crisis.
If everybody panicked about the climate crisis we face with an extinction of thousands of species, droughts and extreme weather, I would agree that such a panic would be just. Now everybody is screaming like crazy for a new flue. (The ordinary flue kills thousands of people yearly too. Yearly 250.000 to 500.000 people die of influenza. Do you read this in the newspaper?)
This saying from somebody who’s a bit under the weather..
This is killing people at a much higher rate than the flu. I came to learn that while many of us may not have hardly any trouble with this virus, with the way it spreads, millions of people will have trouble if we don't contain it. In addition to millions of premature deaths due directly to the virus, how many other unnecessary deaths would occur if our health systems are overrun. I read that there is no way the US system could keep up if this virus spreads unchecked throughout America.
All the world's health science organizations are not in some kind of economic conspiracy. This is akin to the climate change conspiracy theories and even lends legitimacy to those theories. Scientists, for the most part, care about science.
I'm not talking about science. I believe in science and the WHO. But I get fed up with the news media that is hyping up the Corona Virus and politicians who are using it for their gain. And at the same time, we have a huge Climate Crisis to deal with (which is much more important) and nobody in the Media and in politics gives a damn. That's the point I want to make.
What's all the panic? Anyone who wants a test can get a test. It'll all be over soon.
That is the hope anyway. I don't think people are panicking as much as just being frustrated over having to adjust our lives (online college, no spectators at sporting events, etc.) and the market downturn isn't helping. But, I think these things are necessary if we have a chance for it to be over soon.
Just want to add that a couple days ago I called my doctor's office due to flu-like symptoms, laryngitis, fever, cough, etc. The system said to dial one if you have flu-like systems. I hit one and talked to a nurse. She said I was considered low risk because I had not traveled out of state.
I was told to go to the doctor in a few days if I'm not feeling better. There are now 10 cases in my state that I know of. I too highly doubt that I have COVID-19, but not everyone could get tested when I called two mornings ago. I work from home so that's good.
I understand the frustration with the difference between how these two matters are being portrayed by the media and politicians.
"Why can't people just have faith in our President?" Because he's told too many lies.
Not trying to be argumentive. However, have you seen all the false statements the media has put out this week in regards to statements and deeds they have reports Trump has committed? One of the biggest that he decreased funds to some vital CDC programs. As well as reports saying, people should go to work with the virus. Not to mention the Google statement where CNN claimed Trump said the website they were working on would be up in two weeks? His actual works on that subject were "Quickly done". Not two weeks... Maybe these false stories will have some looking more deeply into some of these proposed lies the media are claiming the President makes daily. Fact, context is very important. The fact is the president has and is doing all he can to prevent this virus from spreading out of control. and also helping those affected economically by the virus. He has set precedence far as I am concerned, and those that sit back and criticize over verbal blurbs he might make should take some time and look for the good he is doing...
https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama/202 … se-office/
"verbal blurbs?" That's a new spin on Trump's spin, Shar. Today he said, "nobody is more bipartisan than I am."
Some actual mistaken statements Trump has made pertaining to the virus:
Jan. 21 - “We have it totally under control. It's one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.”
Feb. 2 - “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”
Feb. 10,13, 14, 19 - “Looks like by April, you know, in theory, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”
Feb. 25 - “The level of death with Ebola — you know, at the time, it was a virtual 100 percent.”
Feb. 25 - “We're very close to a vaccine.”
Feb. 26 - “When you have 15 [cases in the United States], and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.”
Feb. 26 - “This is a flu. This is like a flu.”
Mar. 2 - “But the same vaccine could not work? You take a solid flu vaccine — you don’t think that would have an impact or much of an impact on corona?”
Mar. 4 - “I think the 3.4 percent is really a false number. Now, this is just my hunch, and — but based on a lot of conversations with a lot of people that do this.”
Mar. 4 - “I will say, though, the H1N1, that was swine flu, commonly referred to as swine flu. And that went from around April of '09 to April of '10, where there were 60 million cases of swine flu. And over — actually, it's over 13,000. I think you might have said 17,000. I had heard it was 13,000, but a lot of deaths. And they didn't do anything about it.”
Mar. 4 - “The Obama administration made a decision on testing that turned out to be very detrimental to what we’re doing. And we undid that decision a few days ago so that the testing can take place in a much more accurate and rapid fashion. That was a decision we disagreed with. I don’t think we would have made it, but for some reason it was made. But we’ve undone that decision.”
Mar. 6 - “Anybody that wants a test can get a test.” (this one is right up there with if you want to keep your doctor, you can keep your doctor.)
Mar. 11 - “And taking early intense action, we have seen dramatically fewer cases of the virus in the United States than are now present in Europe.” (because we aren't testing anyone)
Mar. 11 - “This is the most aggressive and comprehensive effort to confront a foreign virus in modern history.” (His racism seeps out by calling it a foreign virus)
Mar. 16 - “We have a problem that a month ago nobody ever thought about.” (Trump was warned in December and again in January that action needed to be taken)
Mar. 16 - "The United States will be powerfully supporting those industries, like Airlines and others, that are particularly affected by the Chinese Virus. We will be stronger than ever before!" (Again, with the racism)
In terms of precedent, the mismanagement in terms of testing is definitely a precedent.
The first cases were identified around roughly the same time in South Korea and the US. This has been a debacle.
I would like to see some proof of those statements. Video proof of the in full context. Otherwise, you are wasting your time responding to my comments. I back my comments up with facts, the full context of statements. You, not so much... Don't paly that game, just like facts.
Feb 25 th "We are close to a vaccine" March 17 we are now testing a vaccine. Pretty nice work I would say... I could ripe apart each and every one of your lists. Just need the full statement, not a byline or a headline. Check out my new thread Liar Liar Pants On Fire. I think it will put somethings into perspective for you. Wake up you are being played...
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/false … emic-work/
There is a lot of things we could talk about because this virus is horrible for all of us. Dangerous, and will affect many of us personally. Bashing Trump and the way he is handling it is one I am not willing to participate in. I believe he is doing a good job on all fronts of trying to solve a very bad problem. He is working quickly and methodically.
Some sare being unreasonable in a situation where we should be putting politics aside.
Here is context, but not sure you can mistake when Trump calls it a Chinese virus as a sign of racism. And as you can tell, all of the mistaken statements had context and the original interview linked, to provide background information before making the claims in my post. You should know from history that much of what I claim is thoroughly researched before stated in these forums and I have admitted fault when I am wrong.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics … us-claims/
You are kidding are you not? WAPO. They are the cause of so many misleading out stories reported. Do you actually read WAPO after the continuous stream of problems they have with retractions? Most of my research is spurred by their stories. Most of the time they put out dirt they have no way of proving or actually care to prove. Conext? Really...
We were discussing how quickly a vaccine was produced. You felt Trump should not have claimed a vaccine would come out in two weeks (WAPO) report. His actual words were quickly done.
If you now want to move on to his repeated statements where he has said the virus is or was out of China.
He has said that on several occasions. It is pretty well a fact he does not and will not adopt "political correctness". The viruses' origin was China, and they certainly could have been more forthcoming with a "heads up". I for one am pissed they did not cooperative with a heads up.. Just me, just my opinion. I am not racist, I fully mean the context of my statement to project the virus was originated in China, and I am pissed they did not be more forthcoming. Do ya think Trump could be expressing the same sentiment? Context is important, it is clear it's all in the way one hears any given statement Trump makes. Many are hyperbolic and ready to believe the worse. I like to really dissect, take in the complete statement. What was said that lead up to the blurb the media fed up, what said after? As a rule, I find that feed was spoiled, best not to eat it. Might make me ill, might come down with symptoms of discontentment, confusion, hateful. And all because I was fed up a mistruth all wrapped up in malcontent.
Like, "we've stopped it?" Or, "the coronavirus is under control?"
Randy, it has come to a point I must ask you to prove your Trump quotes. Val and I were having a conversation about yes, Trump's comments. And I have proved that WAPO's quote that Trump claimed the virus would be over in "two weeks" was a lie. I have pointed out to you that Trump did not get rid of important divisions of government that were working on pandemic related problems. I provided good sources to prove my comments.
So, I suggest if you actually heard Trump say 'we've stopped it" or "the coronavirus is under control". Please add your resources. I have pretty much listened to all his news conferences on Cspan in full. I have not heard him utter those sentiments. I think it poor of you to spread or misquote his statements. This morning he was concerned over the spread and was reassuring everything was being done to help stop the spread, and he talked about getting financial help to those that will need it. He is doing a good job of handling a very bad situation. You can dislike him, for many reasons. But give credit where it is due. I think he is doing his best and beyond.
Please provide when he made the statements you offered and a link to what news conference or where you heard these statements.
https://www.coloradopols.com/diary/1366 … oronavirus
“You know, you see what’s going on. And so I just wanted that to stop as it pertains to the United States. And that’s what we’ve done. We’ve stopped it.”
"It's a very contagious virus, it's incredible, but it's something we have tremendous control of," the President said.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/16/politics … index.html
Will these links do, Shar? I know you detest CNN, so if you don't believe them, it's easy to find Trump's quotes on other venues. DOH!
Randy, these articles prove my point in regard to context. You have to grab sentences that left out the contents of the conversation. The before and after sentences, the subject being discussed. I could say.
Well, I am having a great time here in Mexico. It is always wonderful weather, great people, great food. although many people are coming here and should stay away". because I love it so much I want it all to my self.
CNN -- Shar said -- "although many people are coming here to Mexico, they should stay away." Context matters... Do you see how my upbeat conversation when taken apart and only a few words are chosen, my conversation becomes negative foreboding? Please have a second look at your links, you will see only a sentence or two of Trump's words are used to grab your attention, to make you think very negatively about what said. Your links have helped me prove my point.
Hey, It is clear we look at how the media reports, but come on... Check your links. Do you have any idea what came before or after those statements, even the subject the words were taken from?
Another example of another user here posted Trump told young people to continue partying on the beaches. This is how these crazy stories are spread, on social media.
He asked the younger citizens not to party on beaches over spring break. Because they still are, and not abiding by the restrictions...
It was prudent of him to ask the young to stay off the beaches. What he talked about was that the young feel invincible, and don't take into account they could take it home and give it to "grandma or their parents", This was a positive message. You are trying to make it negative. That to me just shows you are not open to really hear the meaning of what Trump was conveying to the young spring-breakers. He never ever told the spring breakers to party anywhere. Prove it! Hey, your hate is showing...
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/health/2 … xp-vpx.hln
https://www.news-journalonline.com/opin … -mark-lane
https://www.click2houston.com/news/2020 … -to-party/
I could take one and decipher it as I have clearly in the past, but it does not seem to be sufiecint for you. It seems I waste my time.
Did you even read the links, Shar? Sure, decipher them for me if you can.
Pleased you're enjoying your "quarantine" vacation, Shar. I've put off my previously planned hiatus at Jekyll Island for now.
Yes. I am here in Mexico for the duration. But, I still have all my loved ones and friends at home. No matter how far I am I worry about each and every one. I have even offered my home to any that wanted to use it to get out of their own cities that have some infected. Not much I can do from here.
I just don't know how it would help to bicker about Trump's statements at this point. He does make statements that are clearly not acceptable. Some as I have pointed out on occasion is taken out of context.
I am sorry you have been waylaid and can't take your time in Jekyll Island. It is a beautiful serene place. Hopefully, you will be able to get there soon. I have started to realize what all at home are having to suffer through. I just pray we start to see improvement in numbers soon. Stay well, follow precautions, as a nurse I can tell you that's your best chance of not contracting a virus.
Hey, on a lighter note --- Feel assured by the time I return Trump will have me in some form of quarantine one way or another. Who the hell knows, I mean he has no love for Mexico. I am surprised he has not come up with some form of reentry program on what to do with all us down here that will be coming back.
Very well under control - Jan
Very well under control - Feb in India
Under control & more - Feb 26
I appreciate your links. They show the importance of context. The president was very clear in what he said giving his opinion on different dates. Following up one of his statements with some doubt that things could have changed. In all of the statements, it appeared he was making an attempt to prevent panic. I am not sure what he was thinking, but I cab see his words would be worrisome to some. I appreciate all he is doing and look at it as he is doing the best he can with a crisis that was unprecedented. I see no pleasure in tearing down what he is doing. That's just me.
You are kinder than I, IB. But Shar knows this as we spar on occasion. Mat would call it "bickering," I've no doubt.
I'm not shocked by this reaction. You took one look at the link and probably didn't even click to it to see that they had his quotes, the context of what they were discussing, and a link to each live interview he gave. Instead, you just post some batshit crazy rant about a source that Trump has you convinced has no credibility because it's not him.
You couldn't argue the merits, so you just attacked the people reporting it. It's not surprising, it's how Trump operates as well.
You can call it political correctness if you want to. Myself and many others think you're fine defending and following someone openly racist. If it were his only offense, it could be forgivable. But he has committed so many blatantly racist statements to this point, that's it's clear. So either you're knowingly supporting racism or you just don't have many black or asian friends to understand how offensive he is. I hope it's the second.
Easy Val, you might be considered "bickering" by the mods. And do not ask for anyone to back up their claims. It's apparently taboo....
Going off-topic here, but . . . after seeing several of your comments about this recent banning, and then jacklee's comment about his banning, I have to wonder, how many folks contacted you about the recent banning spat?
I don't recall any of your, or jacklee's comments that warranted any action?
And then there was your comment that no one had reported comments from the banned posters. So, besides you and jacklee I wonder how many others were banned. I haven't seen Readmikenow for a while either.
For clarity, if this situation is what it appears to be, I certainly don't agree with it. As you said, what else would you expect in a political forum except bickering?
That one Mod took me, likely Onus, and likely Jacklee down all at once. If you actually notice Onus' recent posts, he's not posting his usual idiotic memes and has actually made non-trolling thought-provoking material. Jacklee and I picked right back up with pestering each other. That relationship is beyond toxic.
I am surprised Valeant. Your comments are often combative, but I have never seen them as offensive or worthy of banning. As for onusonus, I can't imagine anything ban-worthy. I think Randy has a valid gripe. Appearances say this moderator has overstepped.
Gus, Matt and I have a past which goes beyond ordinary disagreement. I really don't want to go into the numbers because I don't know who all was banned for the silly bickering excuse.
If you've ever tried to get a concise answer from Matt, you'd realize the futility of the effort. And...we have no choice but to "agree with it." Trust me...
Well, we can only hope it was a passing thing. I have looked for other forums but haven't found any as enjoyably reasonable as HP—yet.
Maybe I better start looking harder. I wonder how many other HP participants are like me—just here for the forums. I certainly don't make enough from their payment programs to hang around for that.
I make money for HP, Gus. It's the only reason they put up with my shit. Have you ever heard the old Southern adage, "Money talks, and bullshit walks?"
Remember, these same scientists who are claiming this CoronaVirus is a thing are the same ones pushing climate change on us. Just remember that. It's all a hoax.
And why are people choosing to believe the scientists now?
I would like you to provide me a link to where you got the idea Trump said the is a Hoax. I have not been able to even find the actual quote from the president. Actually not even a twisted version. I have listened to the video where he said: " the coronavirus is the democrat's new hoax". he went on to say -" they had Russia Russia Russia, and then the impeachment, and now the coronavirus." Seemed to me he was referring to things the Dems tried to pin on him. Like blaming him for the virus. I guess it's all in the context one takes it. I can't imagine him thinking the virus is a hoax.
Do I really need to connect the dots for you? Trump did not specifically ever say the virus was a hoax, just that it wasn’t serious and under control and would be over quickly.
Trump, who previously called alarm over the coronavirus 'a hoax' and compared it to the flu, now says he's 'always viewed it as very serious'
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-h … oax-2020-3
Trump calls coronavirus criticism Democrats' 'new hoax' and links it to
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 … n-at-rally
Trump officials get pushback from GOP on coronavirus stimulus plans
https://thehill.com/homenews/administra … oronavirus
There are many many sources. Bottom line, people believe what they want to believe.
Apples to carrots... Science of virology is miles apart from the science of Climatology.
You ought to know then the coronavirus isn't a "Democrat and media hoax," as someone said. Who was that?
When you vilify scientists, then your constituents don't believe them. Science is a hoax. Climate science is a hoax. Vaccines are a hoax. Obama's birth certificate is fake. Why believe anyone about this silly Coronavirus thing? Party on the beaches of Florida! Head to the bars! Eat out! Thanks Devin Nunes.
Trump said testing was fine and the virus would be over soon and not to worry in direct contradiction to the scientists because he's smarter than them and knows better. What message does that send? Tell me. Believe me, not the scientists. I have a natural ability in these matters.
Can you really not connect these dots? Stop being so literal.
Remember the Pepsi ad from the 90's: "Just One Look" with Cindy Crawford? What was the message of that ad? Drink Pepsi. Cindy Crawford will like you. Or, hot chicks like Cindy Crawford drink Pepsi. Or, if you drink Pepsi, you're more likely to date Cindy Crawford.
You don't have to say something explicitly to deliver a message.
Do you have any resources I can view that even prove Trump made those statements? I am sure if he said any of what you have provided it will be on video in full somewhere online. I like to hear the entire conversation before eating up fed... No really, maybe you should stop, and do the same. You are bordering on sounding ridiculous. Not trying to insult you. But where did you hear Trump said: "Vaccines are a hoax"... Time for me to ask you to put up or shut up with some proof.
He asked the younger citizens not to party on beaches over spring break. Because they still are, and not abiding by the restrictions...
It was prudent of him to ask the young to stay off the beaches. What he talked about was that the young feel invincible, and don't take into account they could take it home and give it to "grandma or their parents", This was a positive message. You are trying to make it negative. That to me just shows you are not open to really hear the meaning of what Trump was conveying to the young spring-breakers. He never ever told the spring breakers to party anywhere. Prove it! Hey, your hate is showing...
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/health/2 … xp-vpx.hln
https://www.news-journalonline.com/opin … -mark-lane
https://www.click2houston.com/news/2020 … -to-party/
I never said Trump made any of those statements. What I'm saying is that when you intentionally create doubt about scientific fact and inquiry you build a foundation for questioning all science. When you act as though you know more than the experts and that education doesn't matter and that "natural ability" is better than learned knowledge, you lead people toward rumor and conspiracy instead of fact.
You missed my Pepsi ad analogy entirely, which doesn't surprise me. You do not have to say a thing explicitly to deliver a message.
Long before Trump took this seriously, he told everyone not to worry and that this would be over soon and that a vaccine was on the way. Many, I'm sure, made their plans, booked their flights, and believed him.
And just so you don't go off on some tangent, Trump is not even remotely responsible for the virus. He didn't create it and whether he or Hillary Clinton was President, the virus would still have happened. But deciding you know better than the experts and giving people false information will end up killing people.
And while I wasn't specifically referring to Trump's own views on vaccines, here's an article for reference:
https://www.insider.com/how-donald-trum … ist-2019-9
For a long time, he touted the link between vaccines and autism. Then, when we had a measles outbreak, he advocated for the vaccine. My simple point is that you can't have it both ways. You can't say science is bogus one minute and right the next.
Would the trajectory of the current state of affairs been different had Trump kept the NSC Pandemic team I think the biggest lessons here are
1. Anyone can have a good idea.
2. Don't get rid of everything prior administration has done for political reasons. Careful analyses are critical.
3. We can do more working together than fighting each other.
"Would the trajectory of the current state of affairs been different had Trump kept the NSC Pandemic team "
Good question. I keep seeing posts (not just here) that simply assume the pandemic team would have solved all the problems long ago - an assumption that is 100% without basis.
But I do agree that careful analysis is needed before disbanding or removing anything. Of course, it is assumption again that that wasn't done - an assumption that has little to support it as the idea that the team would have changed the progress of the disease.
I also agree that we can do more working together than fighting each other, but most of what I see here is time and effort spent in blaming Trump for everything that happened without any suggestions or effort to move on and work together to solve a major problem.
People will be people. Some like confusion. Problem with the president is that he has a megaphone, a twitter account, a cellphone, FoxNews, etc. I just listened to his briefing where he said there is nothing wrong with calling the virus a) the China virus and b) the Kung Fu virus. It has impacted Asians' restaurant business and many report harrassment.
Why can't the president, who volunteered to run for president, be a bigger person than all the others spouting nastiness. If we keep waiting for "you go first!", it will never end. The president MUST be the model of what we should do.
When a regular Joe sends out a tweet, it goes to his/her followers and a few more. When the president tweets, it travels around the world.
The Lincoln Project has mastered the coverage of all that is Trump. These are Never Trumpers, including George Conway, Kellyanne's husband. Here Trump talks about the fine job he is doing.
Article on George Conway and Trumps rating of 10 out of 10.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administra … oronavirus
Good afternoon miss crankalicious. I spoke with two health experts a nurse and a Dr. According to the nurse, the corona virus is spread when people sniff. The small wet drops of mucus that come from the nose of an infected persons die when they land on surfaces, or the person who inhaled the small unseen drops take over the body. The drops that land on surfaces die in three seconds, but if they get wet they live again. If someone touches those dead drops. Then,touches their eyes , nose or mouth they become a live. If someone who gets in contact with the virus gets it. The Dr said that in April things will be fine because we are doing what they tell us to do. We need to wash our hands with soap as often as you can for 20 seconds. Always keep the house and car interior clean. Stay away from sick people. We can text to stay in contact with them. I wish you a great week. sick people needs to contact their Doctors. We need to gargle with salty water if we get sore throat.
I think everyone on this board would do well NOT to take advice from random people on this board and to search for information on trust-worthy sites because some of the information above is just WRONG.
Unless you are a medical expert, stop posting stuff you randomly read. Even my mom, who has an IQ of 160, sent me something that turned out to be fake.
says it all..
It's clear today that the lack of leadership by president Trump is costing lives. His staling and indecisiveness are killing people.
The development of the virus could have stopped in early stages if Trump had not downplayed the epidemic.
The US has the highest number of confirmed infections with 104,837, followed by Italy with 86,498 and China with 81,948.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 … SApp_Other
It is reports like this that give rise to the complaint of "faux news" - news that reports only a fraction of the relevant information and is spun to give a very false impression. In this case, that the US is a hotbed of virus cases and in the worst position of any country in the world.
The reality, the rest of the story, is that the infection rate, per capita (that is, the infection rate compared to the number of people that live there) is far lower. Italy has a rate of about .14% while the US is far lower at around .032%. 4 times lower, and makes the idea that the infection rate in the US is so terrible an obvious lie.
China, of course, is another story, but who believes the reports of the Chinese government?
Similar to the reports that the US is doing nothing. We're conducting 100,000 tests per day - several times higher than any other country I've heard of. We now have auto manufacturers (automobile factories!) making ventilators. Similarly, mattress factories are making face masks, as are pillow factories. Labs and hospitals country wide are working on cures and vaccines. The production might that won WWII for the allies is being thrown at the virus problem - something I haven't seen anywhere else. This is hardly "stalling" or doing nothing.
That's great to hear wilderness. But have you read the article?
What about when the media and Democrats were condemning Trump for trying to isolate those ships coming from China?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/21/politics … index.html
What about the NY Governor & Mayor that said it was nothing, and not to worry about it?
https://nypost.com/2020/03/01/nyc-offic … irus-case/
https://qns.com/story/2020/03/02/corona … uomo-says/
It was Trump who was raising the alarm, it was Trump trying to contain it, and it was the liberal media and fool Democrat politicians who were ignoring the threat, and calling Trump racist (and many other things) for trying to slow its spread.
Trump raising the alarm you say? When was that exactly?
I would love to see some kind of proof in regards to all the golf outings. I can't imagine this is true.
Why? You wouldn't believe it any way. Remember, we're avoiding each other's posts.
In addition to all of Trump's dismissive statements, he was warned by both Republicans and Democrats about the virus and the need to coordinate a more serious response, but it was ignored.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions … s-debacle/
I do enjoy Ken's sheeple responses. He's a sheep, just in a different pasture.
Two people said we need a test. And our CDC was working on one; to blame Trump because it took them longer than expected is silly. But then that was to be pretty much expected from an outfit that seems to exist to blame our president for anything that happens anywhere in the world. Unless, of course, it is positive, whereupon someone else is given credit or it is ignored.
But I wasn't replying to the article; I was replying to the insinuation, from you and not the article, that the US has a far higher infection rate than other nations. That simply is not true, unless you believe the Chinese figures (I don't).
Is this virus still "a hoax?" as Trump called it? Or are people actually dying because he claims he knew "before anyone else" about it and refused to inform doctors, nurses, hospitals and anyone who might have prepared for this epidemic?
Is that what leadership is? Playing the role of the ONLY one who knows what will cost American lives?
He claims he knew in December and spent every weekend playing golf at Mar-a-Lago. How much did he care then about this virus and the lives it would take?
Make all the excuses for Trump but it doesn't erase that he is NO leader and should never have been allowed near the White House.
Please back up your statement that the President knew in Dec of the virus. Please offer a link to where you obtained such a statement.
The president did make the statement early on that it would soon be gone. As did Nancy Pelosi when she said: "join me in China Town for dinner."
Neither knew at the time they made those statements the seriousness of the virus, due to the WHO playing this virus down...
Why not put the timeline in perspective, instead of making such statements. Or better yet do some research on the timeline of what our Government knew and when they knew it.
5 months later, I have 10 relatives that contracted COVID. We've had 2 family friends pass way from COVID. A pastor and wife over one of our church campuses had it. The leader of my women's group and her husband have it. Several friends have posted on Facebook that they had it. It is real. It did not disappear miraculously. It is spreading because people (mostly young) are ignoring safety precautions. It is not a hoax.
I spend most of my time in the house because i have pre-existing conditions.
six degrees of Kevin Bacon pales in comparison to the half a degree to Trump.
I don't know what you're talking about, LTL. Do you?
Yep. I not only know what I'm talking about but I also understand why you don't.
I don't get Trumping it, but apparently you do....
What a humanitarian! Someone's proud of him though....
I think that if we had to pay that much for drugs the population of the UK would rapidly decrease! Most people could not afford the cost.
It's bewildering why the US does not import drugs from the EU. No trade agreement? High import duty? Protecting US manufacturers?
It's all a bit confusing. There is certainly concern here that costs to us will rise when we are finally out of the transition period with the EU. We will need to have negotiated a free trade agreement with the EU if we are to continue to import tariff-free goods from the economic bloc. Call me pessimistic, but that is looking increasingly unlikely to happen.
The UK government seems hellbent on trying to negotiate a trade agreement with the US but it seems that, given what you have written, even if we had an agreement costs would rise - presumably that is because either your manufacturing costs are higher, or profit margins added to the cost are higher. Or perhaps your drugs are manufactured overseas and you are paying high import taxes? Prices to reflect R&D costs are only relevant for the period that a company holds a patent on a product.
My sister works for the UK arm of a US pharmaceutical company, specialising in regulatory affairs. I'm going to ask her for clarification.
Only 85 confirmed cases in the US, so far this week. Nothing to worry about. It's all under control.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/map-where-co … 35760.html
Maybe these statistics exist because somebody, or many sombodies, took the time to worry about it.
Notice there are almost no conservatives participating in this forum? That's because they don't believe in science. Science is all a hoax. The coronavirus is a hoax. It'll all be over soon.
Now 160 cases in the U.S. -- an 88% jump only three days later.
Scientists in Seattle say the actual number there is more like 600 because they simply haven't been tested yet.
Nothing to worry about. It's all under control.
Meanwhile, as IslandBites shows, Trump is encouraging sick people to go to work. And squashing information by the CDC.
"The CDC predicts that at least 12,000 Americans will die from the flu in any given year. As many as 61,000 people died in America in the 2017-2018 flu season, and 45 million were infected. Feb 7, 2020"
Here is an informative article you may want to check out on the dangers our common flu causes in comparison to the Coronavirus.
"The new coronavirus outbreak has made headlines in recent weeks, but there's another viral epidemic hitting countries around the world: flu season. But how do these viruses compare, and which one is really more worrisome?
So far, the new coronavirus has led to more than 89,000 illnesses and 3,000 deaths worldwide. But that's nothing compared with the flu, also called influenza. In the U.S. alone, the flu has caused an estimated 32 million illnesses, 310,000 hospitalizations and 18,000 deaths this season, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)"
The article covers all aspects of coronavirus, from its virulence, symptoms, death rates in regards to other flu, and what is being done to combat the virus.
Like with any flu it should be taken seriously, and no one should return to work when ill with any form of flu. But, we all know they do. This is a major problem with controlling any form of flu.
https://www.livescience.com/new-coronav … h-flu.html
Thanks for your link. As I said in my posts, the coronavirus has a death rate 1,700 times higher than the flu and is spreading much faster.
Look at it this way. When in our lifetimes have entire countries shut down and the stock market plunged thousands of points in response to the flu?
In a phoner with Hannity on Wednesday night, Trump reacted to the World Health Organization's data-driven assessment of the global death rate for the novel coronavirus — 3.4% — by saying "I think the 3.4% is really a false number."
"Now, this is just my hunch," Trump said, which should have spurred Hannity to interrupt, but he didn't, so Trump continued, "based on a lot of conversations with a lot of people that do this, because a lot of people will have this, and it's very mild -- they'll get better very rapidly, they don't even see a doctor, they don't even call a doctor -- you never hear about those people, so you can't put them down in the category of the overall population, in terms of this corona flu, and/or virus. So you just can't do that."
Trump continued by discarding his own administration's advice to stay home if you're feeling sick: "If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better, just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work, some of them go to work, but they get better, and then when you do have a death, like you've had in the state of Washington, like you had one in California, I believe you had one in New York." No deaths have been reported in New York.
"You know," Trump said, "all of a sudden it seems like 3 or 4%, which is a very high number, as opposed to a fraction of 1%. But again, they don't know about the easy cases because the easy cases don't go to the hospital. They don't report to doctors or the hospital in many cases. So I think that that number is very high. I think the number, personally, I would say the number is way under 1%." Hannity televised Trump's irresponsible "hunch" to the world...
Let us compare the Coronovirus with the annual Flu. As we face the flu every year.
COVID-19: Approximately 3,159 deaths reported worldwide; 7 deaths in the U.S., as of Mar. 3, 2020.
Flu: 291,000 to 646,000 deaths worldwide; 12,000 to 61,000 deaths in the U.S. per year.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/ … vs-the-flu
Is it actually any more dangerous than the flu?
“All the patients in the U.S. haven’t required tons of excessive care and actually, right now, they’re actually all improving,” said Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “Based on the U.S. experience, and based on the experience of other countries outside China, a lot of these patients seem to be doing okay.” .
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/m … story.html
It also appears to have a 94% recovery rate.
Serious or Critical
Cases with Outcome
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir … rus-cases/
That's a great Sean Hannity / Donald Trump perspective filled with numbers meant to confuse, deceive and kill gullible people.
The flu death rate is 2 per 100,000 people versus 3,400 per 100,000 for coronavirus.
The growth in coronavirus infections is 50 to 100% per week. Scientists estimate up to 2/3rds of the planet could become infected.
It will take 12-18 months to develop a vaccine.
The world economy is crashing in response. Most of the world believes the scientists and not Sean Hannity / Donald Trump.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ … population
The information I provided are from John Hopkins University Medical school as well as the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). I always find it interesting the 94 % recovery rate is never discussed in the mainstream media.
Guess what? This is public information so President Donald Trump, Sean Hannity as well as anyone who wants to do some honest research can view.
You know Trump doesn't read....
The problem with Trump is that he lies so much it’s hard to know when to believe him.
Thanks for using credible sources.
Stats from the CDC and Hopkins don't change the facts in my comment. Coronavirus has a current 3.4% death rate. It is 1,700 times higher than the flu.
That WP link is 3 weeks old. Everyone isn't doing OK. At least 11 have died so far.
"Is it actually any more dangerous than the flu?"
The answer is yes.
I don't understand why the panic when in any given year between 12,000 to 61,000 deaths in the US happen from the flu. In the United States, there has not even been 100 deaths from the coronovirus and we panic, yet, everyone is calm about losing tens of thousands of people every year from the flu.
If it bleeds, it leads.
Mike, on this we agree. People just don't understand how deadly the flu is from year to year. If it was treated as a completely new thing, people would be freaking out over the yearly pandemic.
Pretty simple, actually: we have hundreds of thousands of cases of the flue. So far there only only a handful of cases of Covid in the US; the future will certainly see far more. It spreads at least as easily as the common flu; when we have hundreds of thousands of Covid happening there WILL be far more deaths.
Agreed. Simple math. If the fatality rate is higher, then if it becomes as widespread as the flu, there will be more deaths. However, I suspect that the fatality rate is overblown because we don't really know how many people are infected. The fatality rate is based on the known cases.
We also don't know how many people are dead. Many experts say that China is hiding their real numbers.
Plus there's a cruise ship quarantined off the coast of California with most people on board over 70 years of age. They are more susceptible than most to the virus.
Test kits have been delivered and in a few hours we'll know something about the rate of contagion on board the ship.
Hopefully, no one will have the coronavirus.
Hopefully, but doubtfully. Some of them are already showing symptoms of the virus. I've never wanted to take a cruise anywhere for just this reason. I don't want to be a captive audience or a captive due to being quarantined.
I don't think believe free drinks and food are worth the risk.
I agree with your sentiment. cruise ships can turn into floating Petrie dishes. The flu, as well as Norovirus, spread pretty quickly on cruises. The Norovirus kills about Norovirus 800 deaths annually due to complications from the virus. Any virus especially a new strain can be dangerous, our bodies just don't have the antibodies to fight a virus they don't recognize. It looks hopeful that the Coronavirus will have a vaccine in the somewhat near future.
Pence says 21 people on cruise ship off California tested positive for coronavirus
Vice President Pence said Friday that 21 individuals on a cruise ship off the coast of California tested positive for the coronavirus and that the Trump administration would bring the passengers stateside this weekend.
The vice president said 46 people aboard the Grand Princess cruise ship were tested for the virus. Of the 21 who tested positive, 19 are crewmembers and two are passengers, Pence said. He said 24 tests came back negative and one inconclusive. There are 3,500 people on the ship.
Trump expressed concern that bringing individuals off the ship and treating them on land would prompt the reported cases in the U.S. to increase, though he later clarified he did not believe the totals should take priority.
"I like the numbers being where they are," he said. "I don’t need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn’t our fault. And it wasn’t the fault of the people on the ship either."
"I can live either way with it," he continued. "I’d rather have them stay on, personally. But I fully understand if they want to take them off. I gave them the authority to make the decision"
Disgusting excuse of a man. SMH
#COVID19 “is the most frightening disease I've ever encountered in my career...because of the combination of infectiousness and a lethality that appears to be many-fold higher than flu.” - Dr. Richard Hatchett, coronavirus expert
“So if, you know, we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better, just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work, some of them go to work, but they get better” - Donald Trump, coronavirus expert
Gallup just gave us the highest rating ever for the way we are handling the CoronaVirus situation. The April 2009-10 Swine Flu, where nearly 13,000 people died in the U.S., was poorly handled.
Again, what a petty disgusting "man".
We see it. Of course, many of us have seen Trump for what he is from the beginning.
I wonder if Trump will continue to hold his rallies? Events like music festivals that attract large crowds are being cancelled across the country.
Meanwhile, Trump and the GOP are still trying to take away health care from millions of people.
Maybe he will when Bernis and Biden cancel their rallies... Perhaps you feel only Trump should cancel his events? Let me remind you millions of us also want to keep the insurances we pay for. I don't appreciate anyone trying to take my healthcare. Everyone in America has a voice. Some seem to forget that.
https://www.woodtv.com/news/elections/s … n-detroit/
https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-n … 45371d3888
"Maybe he will when Bernis and Biden cancel their rallies... Perhaps you feel only Trump should cancel his events?" No, I just thought he might, you know, take the lead because that's what leaders do.
Good to know you care only about your own health care and are not concerned about others who either don't have it or will lose it, if your "leader" and his GOP sycophants get their way.
perhaps if Biden or Bernie canceled their events they could get the jump on looking like great leaders.
In regard to healthcare, You don't tear something down that is working well for the majority of our citizens, to fix a problem for other citizens. We need good healthcare reform. And I have seen no progress on any solutions as of yet. It's not that I am uncaring, I am using common sense.
Okay, so you are in favor of no solution over any progress? Because Trump and the GOP have offered nothing except trying to take health care away from your fellow Americans.
I agree the Trump administration has offered no real solutions. I also stand must reiterate my opinion that it would be unwise to tear our health system down, without any form of plan or way to pay for it, and many American's like me prefer to pay for our plans. To get the form of healthcare individual insurance companies to have to offer. Mayor Pete seemed to be realistic with his views on healthcare. In my opinion, Trump should have tweaked Obamacare. He tore it down without a logical plan to replace it., and this created a problem. Obamacare did not have the time it needed to see if it would work. Could have been tweaked.
My first comment was snarky, bitchy --- I am sorry for coming out so strong.
Here is Trump's response when asked how he would specifically protect those with pre-existing conditions should the ACA be ruled unconstitutional:
'But we want to get something — if we can get the House, you'll have the best healthcare and health insurance anywhere on the planet. But we have to get the House back.
Now, that means we have to hold the Senate. We have to get the House. We have to, obviously, keep the White House. But, what we're doing is managing it really well.
Now, it's a case; it's called Texas vs. — you understand — it's Texas who is suing. They want to terminate it. But everybody there is also saying, and everybody — we have our great senator from Pennsylvania. Thank you very much, Pat, for being here. (Applause.) And Pat Toomey.
And — but, very important — and our — by the way, our great congressmen, I have to say, they were warriors. Right? Real warriors, in terms of the fake impeachment. I will tell you that. (Applause.)
But, so Texas is trying — and it's Texas and many states — they're trying to terminate, but they want to put something that's much better. They're terminating it to put much better. And they've all pledged that preexisting conditions, 100 percent taken care of.'
Sounds like the rambling mess of a man with zero plan aside from taking power.
Not only rambling, but Trump in his comment overlooks the fact that Republicans controlled both houses of Congress in the first 2 years of his Presidency.
And together, they did nothing about health insurance. Not even killing Obamacare on day 1 in office, as Trump promised.
Biden and Sanders both announced they are not holding rallies due to the coronavirus.
President Trump signs an $8.3 billion bill to combat coronavirus today.
"President Donald Trump on Friday signed an $8.3 billion measure to help tackle the coronavirus outbreak that has killed 12 people in the U.S. and infected more than 200.
The legislation provides federal public health agencies with money for vaccines, tests and potential treatments and helps state and local governments prepare and respond to the threat. The rapid spread of the virus has rocked financial markets, interrupted travel and threatens to affect everyday life in the United States."
https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/d … 2020-03-06
Yes. Unfortunately for Trump, he asked for only $2.5 billion. Congress overruled him once again.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol … 822748002/
At any rate, this funding is good news.
"Donald J. Trump
Congress has agreed to provide $8 Billion to fight Coronavirus! This means @CDCgov@HHSGov, and @DHSgov will have the resources they need to Keep America Safe and keep the risk to workers and families very low. This is great news for our Health, our Economy, and our Nation!"
At any rate, this funding is good news.
Donald J. Trump
Congress has agreed to provide $8 Billion to fight Coronavirus! This means @CDCgov@HHSGov, and @DHSgov will have the resources they need to Keep America Safe and keep the risk to workers and families very low. This is great news for our Health, our Economy, and our Nation!"
So who gets the credit for the bill in your mind? Congress or Trump?
Congress worked on the bill pasted it overwhelmingly, and Trump signed it. I would say it was a good effort by all. Not sure why you ask the question. It is not up to Trump to write a funding bill, only request the funds for a need. Congress certainly deserves the credit for creating the bill. It appears that they looked very closely at what funds would be needed to combat the Coronavirus. I think this is a win for Congress. It shows they can work together in a crisis.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho … nd-wont-go
I agree. I strongly suspect that there are thousands of cases where people simply stay home and work through it, not even realizing what they have.
I think the survival rate of 94 percent should be mentioned regularly in the media.
I'm not sure that's a good idea, but I see your point. Do you emphasize how deadly the coronavirus is relative to the flu or do you emphasize the limited number of deaths in general relative to the flu? People should clearly take this seriously, but should people stop going to work? Cancel a vacation? Should kids stop going to school?
Yes, just the point Trump was making on Hannity the other night. Many may not consider that they have coronavirus if the symptoms are mild, and they become well quickly without even the need to see a doctor. He was pointing out the same thing you just pointed out. The death toll may not be correct.
But that is also true for influenza, etc. We'll never know the true numbers. Mortality rate is based on known numbers.
And just as we don't know how many could be infected, we don't know, for now, how many have died of coronavirus before getting tested. So the point is nonsense. He was minimizing and misinforming, as he frequently does.
In America, we have death certificates as well as most countries. will agree some countries would not require a cause of death. Put with coronavirus being front and center, any suspicious death that would have presented symptoms of the virus the person would most likely be tested to see if the virus caused the death. I will agree this virus may have been circulating for a time before it became known to the entire world, and many as Trump claimed could have gone unnoted, and went back to work. And to your point died. So, it would be difficult to determine a true death count. Your point is a good one.
I find it amazing that anyone would listen to Trump about a scientific issue. Coronavirus is just another Democratic hoax right? Such a helpful comment.
I did not express that I agree with anything the president has said in regard to the virus but the possibility the calculation of the death toll could possibly be off. IB pointed out another important factor that could also add to the problem of calculating a death toll.
I hope we can agree that we shouldn't overreact or underreact to coronavirus.
In reply to your first sentence, it seems that people are worried the number of deaths will far exceed the flu if enough people get infected.
There are also reports coming out of China that some survivors have permanent lung damage. It's another reason to be afraid of the virus.
Quarantined nurse in California warns 'not enough is being done' to combat coronavirus
A quarantined nurse in a northern California facility said Thursday that they have not been tested for coronavirus due to issues with the federal government’s bureaucratic roadblocks.
“As a nurse, I’m very concerned that not enough is being done to stop the spread of the coronavirus,” the nurse wrote in a statement shared by their union, the California Nurses Association.
“I know because I am currently sick and in quarantine after caring for a patient who tested positive. I’m awaiting ‘permission’ from the federal government to allow for my testing, even after my physician and county health professional ordered it.”
The nurse said they experienced symptoms of the virus after caring for a patient who was known to be positive for the virus, despite following training and wearing the protective gear recommended by their employer.
First, the CDC said “they would not test me because if I were wearing the recommended protective equipment, then I wouldn’t have the coronavirus,” the nurse said.
“What kind of science-based answer is that? What a ridiculous and uneducated response from the department that is in charge of our health in this country,” they said.
The nurse said they were later told the issue is with “something called the ‘identifier number.’”
“They claim they prioritize running samples by illness severity and that there are only so many to give out each day. So I have to wait in line to find out the results,” the nurse said. “This is not the ticket dispenser at the deli counter; it’s a public health emergency! I am a registered nurse, and I need to know if I am positive before going back to caring for patients.”
CPAC attendee tested positive for coronavirus
The American Conservative Union announced on Saturday that one of the attendees at last week's Conservative Political Action Conference in National Harbor, Maryland, has tested positive for coronavirus.
"The exposure occurred previous to the conference. A New Jersey hospital tested the person, and CDC confirmed the positive result," the ACU said in a statement. "The individual is under the care of medical professionals in the state of New Jersey, and has been quarantined."
It fascinates me how everything always leads back to a Trump conversation or jab for a leftist.
It must be nice imaging the incredible utopia you musty believe the world would be if there was no Trump. I just wonder what you will all do when another president sits in the white house. Will the sanity of the left be restored or will you all frantically look for someone to blame. For everything.
Have you been listening to Trump's statements about the coronavirus?
When he is blatantly making false statements in a time of crisis, as opposed to a real leader who defers to the experts in such times, that's not utopia, that's just smart leadership.
The lettering on our MUTE button is worn from overuse, but like watching a train wreck, we cannot turn away at first. Only when it becomes unbearable, like, after 90 seconds or so, do we finally mute the incompetent liar.
Just seems to me that Trump is more concerned about how the crisis affects his political standing and prospects (his hunch) over letting the experts inform us all with medically sound directives.
Those leaning to right to support anything that this dolt, Trump, says, disgust
me to no end.
Trump remains, in my opinion, a deplorable and despicable man with nothing to redeem him, despite all the rightwingers and their noses up his arse.
Some of us lean to the right and feel about Trump the way you do.
I don't mean to pick nits with your words. I just don't think the Republican party consists of real conservatives anymore.
It mainly consists of white nationalists, anti-government libertarians and rich sociopaths who want no taxes. The party no longer represents conservative values.
Real conservatives oppose trade wars, abuse of our allies, abuse of the Constitution and massive deficit spending -- all of which Trump is doing.
That is interesting, Promisem. What it is that the Republicans
are devolving into.
Why are not more true conservatives like you unable to dislodge the Trump fervor that dominate Republican politics today?
I think that this scenario is the basis for us all to fear for the future....
To be clear, I'm a fiscal conservative and social moderate, so I'm not a pure conservative.
In answer to your questions, some of the most prominent conservative thinkers in the country are strongly opposed to Trump (David Brooks, George Will, Max Boot). Suburban Republicans are bailing out.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpos … story.html
The party is devolving into an advocacy group for rich libertarians. Everyday Trump followers embrace the fervor thanks to ignorance, propaganda and seriously closed minds.
What is the big deal? This thing will be over soon. It's just another Democratic hoax to embarrass our President. Had Obama done more, we wouldn't be in this situation anyway.
Has anyone done research on the yearly flu seasons we experience? Coronavirus does not seem to be as contagious or death ratio as our yearly cases of flu. It is certainly a virus we need to create a vaccine for but does it really threaten the public any more than any other flu? N1H1 --- It caused little media coverage. Obama handled the situation quickly. By declaring the flu a national emergency before our first death. Trump did the same. Soon after Obama accepted the congress bill for funds to fight aid in the control of the virus. Trump did the same. Obama recommended not to panic. Trump, has gone in another direction downplaying the severity of the virus. Which to most of us was not appropriate. Although in the end, he did his job. However, many people do not accept his opinion or find his statements it a reassuring. Which is very understandable. Perhaps panic is not the best resolve. The cases here in the USA are remaining low, and the spread of the virus as of yet seems very slow compared to most viruses.
"This virus was designated as an influenza A (H1N1)pdm09 virus. ... From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases (range: 43.3-89.3 million), 274,304 hospitalizations (range: 195,086-402,719), and 12,469 deaths (range: 8868-18,306) in the United States due to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus"
I think you're making some completely incorrect statements.
Coronavirus appears to be far more contagious and far more deadly than the common flu.
However, the flu kills a considerable number of people each year.
The flu transmission rate is 1.3. Coronavirus is 2.5.
Coronavirus also is 1,700 times more deadly.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin … SKBN1ZO0QW
So, getting better. "Far more contagious" is probably an overstatement. Transmission rates may drop if we simply get the word out about good hand-washing.
However, far more deadly is still in effect.
Actually, it is 92% more contagious (2.5 / 1.3). So it really is "far more contagious".
I found this site that is very informative in regards to data on the virus and its daily rate of numbers of people infected, deaths, and recoveries. It has stats for every country. A good reference to follow to keep tabs on the rate of spread of the in infection, recoveries, and deaths. It's updated as needed.
It was not my intent to downplay the severity of the virus. I was simply stating at this point as of today, the number of flu cases as well as deaths is still low for a flu virus. I have been doing some reading making an attempt to find information on the Coronavirus severity. Most health organizations and scientific reports are that not enough is known about the virus as of yet. many feel it is as severe as H1N1. I certainly do not want to downplay the severity of a virus we know little about.
In my view, it as of yet is not spreading rapidly as H1N1 did. The cases have slowed, and as have the deaths here in the USA. I have been keeping my eye on Italy, they are dealing with a real crisis. Italy will give us an idea of how quickly it spreads and how virulent it is.
I watched the UK Government's Committee of Inquiry into the coronavirus on live tv yesterday. Questions were put to the Director of Public Health England by MPs. Obviously, the people in charge of running the country need to be aware of the worst-case scenario so that they can plan effectively.
The coronavirus is life-threatening mostly for the elderly and people with pre-existing medical conditions. The death rate for over-80s who become infected has been calculated as 8%. (That's a lot of people in countries which have a lot of elderly people - like Italy).
Most people infected will have flu-like symptoms and need to self-isolate -because the virus is extremely contagious. Symptoms may be so mild for some that they might not even be aware that they have the virus - which adds to the spread of the disease.
Anticipated difficulties associated with a pandemic are
(1) keeping industry, commerce and public services working effectively for the duration, because so many people are likely to be absent from work
(2) finding enough medics, beds, breathing equipment and health care professionals to care for the numbers that may need hospitalisation
(3) continuing to provide effective care services for residents of care homes or receiving care at home, due to staffing shortages.
(4) workers with mild symptoms neglecting to self-isolate because they need to continue to work to earn money. This will spread the virus.
The rate of increase in cases has slowed in China and South Korea - due perhaps to the extreme measures they have taken to contain the spread - but not, I think, in the rest of the world.
Numbers and rate of spread are increasing in the UK. The government's emergency planning meetings are taking place at least once each week to monitor the situation. It seems from news reports that the government is likely to soon transition from the containment stage to measures like preventing large scale public gatherings, closing museums etc.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal … 85842.html
Hell, I'm trying to figure out if I can use my NHS number if I get ill (even if I'm just there on business. I do have medical insurance, and I'm so glad I took the more expensive option.
When in England you must ring 111 - the NHS helpline - if you suspect that you may have coronavirus.
Trump at CDC... Yikes!
Really! And as of this writing, he is refusing to be tested although he was exposed to people who had been exposed to the virus. The pundits say the probability is low that he is contaminated, but the fact that he would take that kind of chance also tells the world what kind of man he is. Just look at how many people he could infect at a rally!
I guess he has a god complex. I have been frightened out of my wits traveling across Africa these last 24 hours.Now in London. Nobody wearing masks.
Meanwhile, my Facebook friends who are Trump worshippers boast about going to work while sick because "it's just the sniffles and that's what I always do. It's a hoax."
Dangerous, irresponsible dumbasses
Hi PP. I sort of kind of felt this way until I learned a bit more about the matter and how the health organizations look at pandemics. I came to learn that while many of us may not have hardly any trouble with this virus, with the way it spreads, millions of people will have trouble if we don't contain it. In addition to millions of premature deaths due directly to the virus, how many other unnecessary deaths would occur if our health systems are overrun. I read that there is no way the US system could keep up if this virus spreads unchecked throughout America.
So, my initial reaction was wrong. But, with a little more research, I learned better and changed my outlook. This seems so simple but something that many Americans are unable to do these days. I've been battling a case of the flu myself with laryngitis. Luckily I work from home so don't have to go anywhere. Feeling a bit better today.
I hope you get well soon!
I'm glad you are feeling better and hope you recover soon. I think many people reacted similarly to you, initially thinking the fears and media coverage were overblown, but revising their opinion with more knowledge. These people are not like that. They believe it's all a huge exaggeration just to make their dear leader look bad.
They really are dumbasses.
The moron the US has for president has been twitter-storming about the Dems Primaries, insulting the media, endorsing politicians... Everything but Coronavirus. His las tweet about it was 3 days ago, dismissing it.
NOW he's calling for unity, asking Dems and media to work with him. All his last tweets, 8 in 6 hours, are about the virus. So, now Coronavirus is important?
What an idiot!
Geesh. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
I thought tonight's speech was appropriate. The Coronavirus is having a disastrous economic effect—worldwide, and our president addresses the nation in that respect. I bet I can guess what the scoring judges will say.
That wasn't the point. But of course you take offense.
I wasn't offended. I took the point to be that because he wasn't saying the right thing 3 days ago he is being criticized for saying the right thing now. If that wasn't it, what was the point I missed?
It's good he says the right thing once in awhile. Does it really matter after all the selfish lies and divisive behavior during a time of crisis? No. We should all ignore his stupid ass and listen only to the grown-ups.
I think most of us are ignoring him for the most part. We know he has no idea what's going on. Now there's at least a chance that Trump has the virus and is sharing it with others. He's "not concerned" though. What a leader. If he ends up in the hospital soon with the virus he'll deny it:
"I was just visiting. That place really isn't a hospital anyway. It was my annual check up where they tell me how I'm the fittest person alive. Damn Democrat hoax is what it is."
Sure, that's a choice you can make.
I didnt criticized what he said. My point was that he was minimizing and missinforming, and had to wait until this point to pretend to be a decent human being.
* Still no judging what "right" or not he said now.
Well. it sounded like criticism. Maybe it's just a matter of perspective.
Katie Porter is awesome. Damn!
I don't get the panic surrounding the coronavirus. Between 2009 and 2010 there was the H1N1 flu. It was far more serious and yet, nobody changed anything in their lives. The stock market was unaffected by it.
Here is some important information about the H1N1 pandemic from Politifact.
“It was serious. From April 12, 2009, to April 10, 2010, in the United States, there were 60.8 million cases of swine flu, 274,304 hospitalizations and 12,469 deaths, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimated.”
Obama didn't declare H1N1 a national emergency until more than 1,000 people had died from it.
“On Oct. 24, 2009, six months after his administration declared H1N1 a public health emergency, Obama declared it a national emergency. At that point, H1N1 had claimed more than 1,000 American lives, according to the CDC”
President Donald Trump declared the coronavirus a public health emergency before ANY American had died from it.
“By way of comparison, Trump declared the coronavirus a public health emergency on Jan. 31, 2020, also prior to any deaths in the United States. One effect was that U.S. citizens who had been in China's Hubei Province, the source of the outbreak, in the previous 14 days were subjected to 14 days of mandatory quarantine if they traveled back to the United States.”
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 … th-emerge/
So, why the panic? Nobody paniced in 2009. President Donald Trump is on top of this situation and doing what needs to be done to take care of it. He's doing what Obama did, but a little sooner.
So, why the panic?
I don't see much panic. Your meme is representative of a common sense approach to controlling viruses though. I take it that's how you meant it.
I'm sure. :-D
And where is Randy? Anyone know?
You don't see much panic? Saint Patrick's Day parades are being canceled by big cities, professional sports events are being canceled, the stock market lost of 2,000 point, there are runs on toilet paper, Universities are cancelling classes, schools around the country are cancelling classes. A high school near where I live cancelled classed for a day to disinfect the school because a student "may" have come in contact with someone with the conrona virus. I could go on, so, maybe you don't read as much news as I do, but yes, there is a lot of idiotic panic.
NONE of this was done during 2009-2010 with the H1N1 flu, that was far more dangerous.
I'm tired of this insane panic.
What you see as panic the experts see as prudent measures to help slow the spread of a virus that is deadly to some people.
Why are you tired of it? Is preventing some unnecessary deaths inconveniencing you?
I already explained how I thought as you are thinking until I learned just how much millions of sick Americans would overwhelm our healthcare system...how many premature deaths may be prevented (including some that would have nothing to do with the virus) You don't seem to want to address those facts though.
Caution and attempting to prevent an outbreak at a crucial point is not panic. These things are happening because that is what the scientists are saying is best. But, we all know that you and Trump know better than the CDC, the WHO, our nations top infectious disease experts etc. and that they are all part of the Deep State anyway.
It seems China is getting control over the virus because of measure such as those you are referring to. Is the US going to be the one to say to hell with it?
"But, we all know that you and Trump know better than the CDC, the WHO, our nations top infectious disease experts etc. and that they are all part of the Deep State anyway."
This sounds like whining to me. Lets have an adult conversation.
MY point is that none of this was done during the H1N1 virus outbreak. The media barely covered it. So, why was there no panic back then, but there is a panic now? H1N1 was WORSE than the conronavirus. Something just isn't right.
Could it have been that the media in 2009 was focused on illustrating the benefits of Obamacare and an H1N1 panic would have hurt the image of Obamacare. Today, the media is focused on hurting President Donald Trump so promoting a panic may benefit the Democrats.
That is one idea of why there is such a difference.
The media barely covered it.
That's a lie and you know it. But keep peddling.
Personal insults are a sign you know you have no argument. Of course the media is more focused on this now, it is more focused on everything now! However, I do remember wall to wall coverage of H1N1.
An H1N1 vaccine was developed some months after the disease had been discovered. People were lining up for the vaccine so they didn't have to cancel everything!
And yes...Trump. He is a dummy. We have a dummy in charge and most people understand this.
You start out your comment with " Personal insults are a sign you know you have no argument."
You close with an insult. "And yes...Trump. He is a dummy. We have a dummy in charge and most people understand this."
And I don't see the irony though I knew someone would attempt to draw the parallel. I'm not arguing my points with Trump so I'm not calling names instead of presenting my argument. One of my points is that Trump is a dummy. That's a big part of the problem here.
Trump being a dummy is the least of our problems. He continues to tell the American people not to worry because they will get Coronavirus treatment for free. He said it in his address and he continues to say it.
I have a quick question a yes or no will suffice if you don't feel you want to answer in-depth. Do you feel the president has handle measures well to curb the spread of the virus, to promote the development of a vaccine, and protect the citizens of this nation? I realize there were problems producing enough testing kits. My question pertains to curbing the spread and related deaths from the virus.
USA 1,396 cases, 39 deaths. And I am sure you are aware of the his new travel restrictions, and financial relief he is requesting for those affected by the virus.
On Jan, 20th 2020 the first case was diagnosed in the USA.
Feb 1, 2020 --"On February 1, 2020, Trump signed an executive order banning all foreign nationals from entering the US who had been in China. The order came into effect at 5 pm on February 2, 2020. Trump has been accused of ‘panicking’ by thousands of people affected by the travel ban."
I have provided a link with by the day updated stats on the virus. It will give you an idea of how his measures seem to be working in comparison to other countries. It's a good up to date reference site.
No. He's not even doing well with his own personal responsibility as it relates to the virus.
I agree he should be tested do to it appears he was exposed. But I think he is doing a very good job curbing the spread and fighting for financial relief for citizens affected by the virus. he is setting new precedence with providing financial help to many that would suffer financially. In my book, he deserves credit when it is due.
However, thanks for your opinion.
With all due respect, you are giving him credit for things that we have no clue how they are even going to play out yet. Curbing the spread? Seems not so much right now. Financial relief? We have no clue what or how this may play out.
I agree. I was really impressed with the fact there would be help for hourly workers and bowled over by the fact there would be no co pay required on corona virus medical assistance but, the proof will be in the implementation.
We'll see how curbing the spread plays out but that is in our hands, individually, as much as the government's. People have a tendency to expect everyone else to take responsibility.
The insurance industry already corrected him on the no copay required for medical assistance. He meant that tests would be free...oops.
I think most Americans understand they have a personal responsibility. I saw a guy get forced to wash his hands in a public restroom. I think most Americans understand this better than Trump does. He won't even get tested despite being knowing he was near people with the virus.
I don't put much stock in media posturing and click bait attempts to feed the echo chamber. I'm certain the POTUS has 24/7 access to medical advice and if a test is warranted it will be done, or has been. Like you already claimed. He's a liar so he may be lying about that?
We are in such a weird place as a nation. Instead of coming together in a time of crisis we have such as this thread. I hope I'm right and it's a bunch of hoopla over nothing. We aren't ready to band together and help each other through a major crisis.
I'm pretty sure Trump already recanted his own statement on Twitter. We are in such a weird place as a nation. A group of people voted for a dummy. The acts we are taking by cancelling events and what not are signs that we are banding together. The numbers on this disease prove it's serious enough to take measures to protect our nation. Not panic.
People in leadershhip roles across the country are stepping up to make hard decisions, tell the truth, and do the right thing. I see people coming together despite the dangerous idiot who fails us daily. He is irrelevant to most of us who merely hope he will do no more harm in this situation than run his stupid mouth.
I as a rule don't jump out with an "if come'. Although in Pelosi's press confrence this morning she was very encouraging that a bill that included Trump's requests would be most likely be on his desk in 24 to 48 hours.
he will set a precedence f this financial help package goes through to help those that are affected by a health crisis. I see this as a very progressive action to prevent financial problems for many.
Some wanted words of reassurance, some of us wanted action. Let's face it he will not stay on a script like many presidents before him. But in the end, he does his job. We all have a right to our opinions on which is more important if we have to pick only one.
How does implying that everyone can get a test if they want one and telling Americans treatment for the CoronaVirus will be free help anything? How does patting yourself on the back for all your "great" work help anyone? Stuff spews from his mouth hole and it's impossible to tell what's fact and what's fiction.
That said, there's very little the President could do to stop the spread of this virus short of enabling the agencies who deal with such things with funding and not cutting their funding, which is what he did.
In order to limit and/or prevent a pandemic, you have to be prepared for one and Trump did the opposite of prepare, though you can't explicitly blame him alone for that.
I was pointing out the positive of what our government is doing to combat the virus. You do realize many positive steps are being taken to combat this virus outbreak.
One cannot be ready for a new virus. The only thing that can be done at this point is preventive measures, and work to develop a vaccine. That is just what our Government is doing. It is apparent we lacked test kits, but other than that, I think everything is being handled pretty well.
How would you prepare for an unknown virus? NO one could predict or prepare for an unknown virus.
And I noted in one of your comments you feel we get our vaccines from China. This is not true. Most of the other vaccines used in the United States are made in France, Canada, Belgium, Germany, or the United States.
Because we have no immunity nor vaccine for this illness. Also many of us fall into the high risk area and for us the thought of catching this virus is terrifying.
Current US numbers :1,670 confirmed cases 40 fatal. That equals a 2.39 percent mortality rate thus far. That rate is higher in China and much higher in Italy. That is at least partially being blamed on healthcare industries being overwhelmed. I heard from a virologist that Italy's health system was much better prepared than the US on this. The known flu death rate in the US is typically about 0.1 percent. Yet Fox news puts up graphics showing how many more people have died from the flu. Like duh...how long has the flu been around? I know Americans understand stats better than that???
Panic is always silly. Action that makes sense is not panic.
Calm down and wash your hands. It's not the time to be ignorant.
I feel so sorry for people who have relatives who vote democrat.
He didn't save as many as he killed by cutting off funding to the centers that prepare for this kind of stuff. So he's still at a net loss.
A quote from your leader about those returning from Europe: "Sure. But we have them very heavily tested. If an American is coming back or anybody is coming back, we're testing. We have a tremendous testing set up where people coming in have to be tested."
A complete lie.
Well, I am most definitely worked up about it this morning. I just had to cancel my flight to Portugal. Not even remotely prepared to chance my health, thank you.
I'm not worked up - resigned to the inevitable. Flight to Venice cancelled, gym membership frozen for three months, theatre tickets refunded, groceries ordered online and delivered to the house. I hate to have to admit it but I'm 'elderly'. So I have been in self-imposed house arrest this week, apart from turns around the nearby nature park with the Nordic poles.
Of course the problem with that is, we are only in the opening inning of this fiasco.
There are 8 more innings to go, it isn't going to 'blow over' in a couple weeks, if there are going to be outbreaks, and millions of Americans getting it, we are weeks, if not months from it reaching the peak outbreak point.
Personally I am not worried about it, but I am worried about the weakness of human nature and the 'herd effect'... and lawlessness taking hold in states such as CA which seems ripe for a societal-norm breakdown.
If you look at the difference between how Philadelphia and St. Louis handled the Spanish Flu in 1918, you will see that social distancing works. If we can follow that model, we can slow this thing down.
The question will then be, will it re-emerge after it's slowed down.
The question is, how dangerous is it.
If its Norovirus type dangerous, then this is something we can manage.
This is a panic being caused by the reaction to the virus, by governments, by businesses, whether the eccentric efforts (NBA, PGA, etc shutting down) are valid precautions remains to be seen.
We don't know that this reaction is justified, but it shows the ability that the media and various organizations have to shut down life-as-normal and bring the world slowly to a halt.
I don't understand how you can question how dangerous it is. Do you not believe the reports from around the world? Italy, for example?
Ken is accurate, but is also pushing the Fox News version of events. This is hysteria - a media driven frenzy meant to damage Trump. History shows that social distancing works. Local governments are listening to experts and not the White House, which is why you are seeing these new tools come into play. What I think will be most interesting is whether technology and medicine can work together to get this thing under control faster than normal.
Its comments like this that put you in the Randy category of labeling and belittling of anyone who doesn't see the world in the same way he does.
I don't watch Fox, I don't watch American TV News at all.
Its amazing how clear, unstressed and well a mind works when not filled with garbage. And all that the CNN, MSNBC, FOX, etc. "News" channels feed people is garbage...Fox may be the best of them but its still garbage.
I catch Bloomberg radio, about 15-30 minutes a day, for their Market analysis, depending on what I feel like listening to while driving.
Otherwise I research my information from various sources, preferably not anything related to one of the primary American news channels.
You called me a "capitalist pig" and didn't get banned for it, Ken. You're apparently immune to a ban as I would have gotten a month ban for doing the same to you.
But then, you're a Trumper....
I think what Randy has wisely realized is that nothing he says can persuade or detour a Trump supporter or right-wing zealot from their prescribed position on any issue, so he just posts short, pithy statements that sum up his sentiments without wasting much of his time.
I admire him for that. Nothing seems to bother him.
I don’t pay attention to the media - I go directly to expert opinion and our NHS website for information.
Of course we know how dangerous it is.
It's 93% more contagious than the flu and has a death rate 1,500 times higher, according to the CDC, WHO and other credible sources.
And speaking of the media, does the media in China control the government or does the government control the media?
Was it the Chinese media that shut down all of China?
"of course we know" that is that the ultimate statement as to your outlook on things, isn't it?
Nothing like someone who is an expert on something they know nothing about to make a discussion interesting.
I see you are still angry and trying to provoke another fight.
Anyway, no expertise needed. Just facts from credible sources.
Or is the CDC also part of your ongoing conspiracy theory that the entire world is against Trump?
Of course you didn't answer my questions (again). Facts and questions seem to scare you quite a bit.
Yes, people could easily tire of social distancing. That is why the UK government is taking a different approach from most of the world - they have taken the psychological and behavioural aspects of the pandemic into consideration, Time will tell if they are right, and the situation is under weekly review. Meanwhile, our Football Premier League has taken matters into its own hands and cancelled all games.
Of course, once individuals have recovered from infection, they are believed to be no longer carriers - herd immunity is the outcome. Or so the virologists were saying today on tv.p today.
The UK's stats prove their method is effective. They have taken a common-sense approach educating the people on how to avoid the virus, without having a meltdown. It's remarkable the UK has only 798 confirmed cases and sadly10 have perished. Here in the states, we thrive on crisis, melting down is an innate characteristic in our society. The herd immunity is scientific, and ultimately is how a new virus will run its course, the herd builds antibodies, and with a good vaccine, the virus will become history. And this virus will be no different no matter how panicked we get, in the end this virus will do its dirty work, and in the end, be handled in the most logical way. Herd building up antibodies, and a good shot in the bum.
Your assessment of the situation here in the UK is inaccurate. Figures are are growing exponentially and expected to peak in 10-12 weeks. There are not enough staff or beds to deal with all of those who might be seriously ill.
The government strategy until yesterday was basically to do nothing other than advise us to wash our hands frequently and thoroughly and to sneeze into a tissue (or our sleeve, if we don’t have a tissue available).
In his press conference yesterday the PM emphasised the gravity of the situation, The worst case scenario, quoted by official sources, is that eventually 80% of the population could be affected.
The government strategy until yesterday was basically to do nothing other than advise us to wash our hands frequently and thoroughly and to sneeze into a tissue (or our sleeve, if we don’t have a tissue available).
That was Trump strategy too. Oh, that and minimizing the situation.
Are the stats I quoted not correct? I ask because I have been closely following a site that claims they are keeping up to date stats. Today they showed 798 persons on with the virus as of this afternoon I more death which brings the total to 11. It did appear that the UK was starting to decrease in cases. For my misrepresenting the situation. I certainly will take your account that the situation is worsening. Please accept my apology.
No need to apologise. The figures that you quote were accurate yesterday. But, as I said, they are growing exponentially. Each person infected by the coronavirus infects 2-3 other people. The government policy is to try to avoid the peak for as long as possible because our NHS is already overstretched with people who need hospitalisation during the winter months for different illnesses.
I can only pray this virus succumbs to the weather getting warmer It would help decrease transmission and hopefully give us needed time to create a vaccine.
I thought this as well early on and hoped the same. My hopes were a bit deflated when Tom Hanks and his wife were infected. They are in Australia shooting an Elvis movie. It's summer in Australia.
Excellent point. Likewise, Singapore, Malaysia, the Philippines and other countries.
It's 91 degrees Fahrenheit in Singapore today.
Singapore, Malaysia, the Philippines
Malaysia 238 cases as of today
Philippines 111 cases to of today
Singapore 212 cases as of today
Most viruses are less infectious in warmer conditions. However, it would be to soon to predict this could happen with the Coronavirus we are dealing with. It certainly would be wonderful if this is the case...
All of the countries with warm climates seem to have a lower count. Especailly the ones near the equator.
I think it's helpful to look at the number of cases as a percentage of population. They're all equal to or higher than the U.S. Qatar and Bahrain also are warm weather.
Check out the far right column:
Also look at the 24-hour growth rates -- new cases divided by total cases. Some of them are growing 10 to 20% per day.
The stats show Australia has 248 cases, perhaps it might be due to the warmer weather that has kept their count low. It is also possible the Hank's brought it with them from California. As a rule, the virus dies out in the spring, although not enough is known about this particular virus.I share your worry...
This is the first empty Starbucks I have ever seen in my life. It is at Camden Market, London and I have never seen it empty before. Oxford street in London is empty.
Basically, London has shut down - on its own. People and tourists just aren't coming.
Thanks for sharing, did not at all realize the UK was hit this hard. Many articles are giving the impression that the UK is business as usual. It's wonderful to have social media. Again thanks
I suspect that by the time this is over our high streets and shopping centres will take a long time to recover. Small service and retail businesses can’t survive without customers, despite business rate relief. Plus, it’s hard to see how short haul airlines are going to weather the storm, Day-to-day life may be very different for some years.
I fear we are heading for something much worse than an economic recession.
I fear so too, but on the grand scale of things maybe it's not a bad thing. As the world as it is organized today with its consumerism and outsourcing, products flown in from all over the place. Maybe it's not a bad thing to start to do things locally again.
If only it was that easy
It's not easy. And I fear for times like these. Where chaos is starting to rule. I don't like revolutions at all. But this corana virus is starting a depression. The production line of goods is in one big mess. It just started. The consequences will be seen later this year.
Ironically, this is good for slowing down climate change...
Yep. the climate crisis, which is far more devastating than the virus, but to abstract to act against, is perhaps helped by the chaos the Corona Virus is bringing. Irony indeed.
Time for UBI. And, yes, every country can afford it. They print money, don't they? They just need to divide it differently. With robots and machines in a state of over-production, it's not as if we are short of goods.
I think it depends how quickly one can stop coronavirus from spreading. It's Saturday afternoon in a pub here. There are 7 people in the pub - one is the main areas. It is normally packed. Nobody here.
One things I'm thankful for is that some airlines (Emirates and Ethiopian which I'm on) have waived any change of date flee due to coronavirus, and the hostels here are refunding in full for anyone who leaves early ow withdraws because of coronavirus.
That must hurt. I'm impressed because they put honour and decency ahead of profits.
Also, if you knowingly elect anti-government people to government positions, you will get exactly the kind of government you voted for: ineffective.
I agree, Ken. I resist comparing it to historical situations where similar things happened to cultures, religions, and such. With that, it shows how quickly we lose our freedoms based on conditions that appear in peril.
So by instituting measures meant to save lives in an emergency, they are taking away your freedom? Okay. Selfish much? Any concern at all for the greater good? You sound like an anti-vaxxer.
The Indiana Department of Health put out a story saying no new cases since Thursday. There were nine people tested! They've tested 73 total in Indiana so far..hmm. People are saying they are being turned away from a test because their fever is 102 not 104. Is this efficient healthcare...is this efficient government?
And when you elect anti-science idiots this is what you will get. Science is wrong. Hunches and rumor are right.
The Ohio Department of Health estimates that 100,000 people in the state now carry the virus.
But it's only an estimate because they don't have enough testing kits.
https://fox8.com/news/coronavirus/ohio- … ronavirus/
Your comments in this thread seem to show that you have been looking into this. I have not, so this is an honest question: Is that 2-degree difference a definite marker for the virus? Is 104 the threshold, or could a 102-degree also be the virus?
My general understanding is that fever temps don't gradually rise over time—they rise quickly and spike. So that is why I ask the question.
I am thinking that if 104 has been medically determined to be the threshold, then not testing at 102 seems to make sense.
From what I've read, GA COVID-19 is usually accompanied by a mild fever. When I called about my illness a couple days ago, I was direct to a COVID-19 triage line. They didn't even ask me how great my fever was. All they asked if I had traveled out of state. That made me low risk. They told me to go to the Doctor if I wanted to and say that I was cleared by them. That didn't worry me, or anger me in anyway. I just assumed that was for the best and/or they were rationing testing kits.
I'm generally getting second hand information from a professor who is a virologist and just reading CDC, WHO, and IDOH updates.
I'm back from a 7 day forum ban for "bickering" according to Matt. Apparently you can call me a capitalist pig and not be banned, but it's taboo for me to ask someone to prove their claims. What a joke ! Thanks to everyone who emailed me wondering where I was.
At any rate, we see what Trump's priorities really are. Not the coronavirus, but his approval ratings are more important.
Ah..we have a serial bickerer. I think the bickering has been missed by some.
Thanks Don, anyone can be charged for bickering on the political forums if I'm any example. Everyone feel free to insult or personally attack me as no one I've ever reported for such have never been banned as far as I can tell. Randy is free game on the forums, but sticks and stones and all that $#it.
Well. That's cause you're a football bat Randy. I should know...that's what a gym teacher used to call me.
No big deal, I've grown accustomed to it, Don.
Glad you're back. Let bickering commence!
Thanks Sandy, bickering apparently is worse than personal insults according to Matt's thinking.
Glad you're back, too. I've been so busy draining my own personal swamp and dodging alligators that I didn't realize you were gone. I haven't been spending much time on the forums.
Today my husband Larry and I spent 3 hours wasting away in my eye specialist's office. Larry has COPD and started coughing. A nurse came out and handed him a mask.
Thanks Doris, hope Larry is doing well and being careful to stay away from anyone with the virus. And you as well..
Hey, you're a warrior. A little pain comes with the job description.
We all did our best to maintain your standards while you were gone. Glad you're back.
Yup. Seems to me that the liberals get banned, but I might be wrong.
Alive and definitely well... Good to see you back.
Thanks Shar, won't be long if Matt has anything to do with it.
Hey, welcome back, Randy!
Thanks IB, I'm not the only one who's been given a 7 day ban for the ridiculous "bickering". Matt Wells must want a few days off since he's banning so many people for the same stupid thing. He apparently doesn't realize many of us communicate by email. Or he simply doesn't care about fairness as a moderator. No surprise to anyone who has been here a while.
I wondered why the forums are so empty compared to normal, but now I understand. If you want some frustration, try getting a straight answer from him. A power trip, no doubt! Sad but true.....
Huh. Who else is bickering enough to get banned? We can't all be as milquetoast as....well....someone else. lol
What's a political forum without bickering? Meaningful intellectual discourse? I never!
Indeed, I told him he can pick any forum and claim those commenting are bickering. I think a new moderator is called for if this BS continues. There's power in numbers as we all know. This is getting out of hand. No one is reporting anyone for these silly infractions, so apparently they're trying to get rid of the forums.
I suppose I'll need to contact Robin to see what's up, as bad as I hate to bother her. I'll wager she's unaware of Matt's game.
Wow. I have no idea who's Matt, dont know who are the moderators.
I got no reasons the two times I was banned.
Just glad you're back!
Matt is the head moderator, IB. And yes, getting a reason why one is banned from him is like pulling teeth. You might be interested in joining the HP Writers Union along with many others of us. We need to have a bit of protection from such as this. If you or anyone else is interested, they can contact me via email. It's amazing what power there is in numbers.
In the meantime, I've contacted Robin with the problem. Hopefully she'll tell him to chill out with the stupid bans, but if not, a writer's strike may get their attention.
I found some more from the Indiana State Health Department Commissioner for those curious:
She says they can now test well over 100 people (as the CDC just gave them more kits) and have tested 78 people total to date. I think there are now 12 confirmed cases in Indiana.
https://www.indystar/story/news/health/ … 041002002/
"For now the state is focusing testing on high-risk patients and health care workers in nursing homes and hospitals, she said. " IDK?
This is from March 6:
"Vice President MIke Pence said the U.S. did not have enough tests "to meet what we anticipate will be the demand going forward." But the vice president said kits for 1.2 million should be available next week, the BBC reported"
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/hea … 973697002/
Well I guess Mike decided Indiana deservers "well over 100" of that 1.2 million number. Where are the kits? I don't know. Maybe someone should ask Mike?
Am I seeing this right?
Is Trump, that worthless windbag, blaming Obama for the current crisis?
That man is a total waste of flesh.
Oh wow. I went to Twitter cause that's where we get news from our President now you know. Yep. He's blaming Obama...nothing to do with the fact that the Trump administration fired the U.S. pandemic response team in 2018 to cut costs. Nothing to do with the big testing kit blunder by the CDC, headed by Trump's guy. We need to hold an emergency Presidential vote.
Yeah, that's the ticket.
All-righty everyone, pandemic in full swing, lets get out there and vote, lets just move up the election to next week, the States won't have any problems setting it up, they can set up the voting machines at the hospitals... you can be treated for Corona while there, or maybe you can be treated to it, so you don't miss out on the pandemic experience.
I don't think he blamed Obama, I think he blamed the CDC. And claimed Obama did a poor job combating H1N1. At any rate, he was being unfair. Obama did his best in a horrible situation, and I believe Trump is doing the same.
So why is he trying to to cut the CDC funding again in his latest budget proposal?
Ok, this is what I have been able to ascertain from the Houses hearing on the proposed budget cuts to CDC.
Acting Director of the Office of Management and Budget Russ Vought gave a statement in a White House briefing that the headlines that were circulating in regards to the budget cuts to CDC were untrue. He said savings were made through trimming waste and unnecessary programs rather than cutting anything that was in any way connected to fighting infectious disease. He said the CDC would be getting a 3% increase to Infectious disease fighting.
He stated the cuts were proposed for --“Things like climate change research, things like occupational health research, that is not going to go away but is something that we do not need to jump-start. Instead, the CDC’s work on infectious diseases and preparedness saw a bump in funding by 3% to $4.317 billion for 2021, he said."
“It is not true that we have cut CDC’s infectious disease-fighting” capability."
It appears that the cuts to the CDC were misrepresented by the media.
https://thehill.com/policy/finance/4868 … s-outbreak
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news … s-diseases
Matt must have banned lots of forum posters if the lack of new forum posts are any indication. I know several others who've emailed me with a similar ban for the crappy made up "bickering" charge. Something is definitely up with this BS.
I'll try to get a real answer from Robin as to what the deal is. Hopefully she's not part of it as she seems fair minded and always has been. I can't say this about others on the staff though.
Italy recorded 3,590 cases and 398 deaths in a 24 hour period, Italy’s Civil Protection chief Angelo Borelli announced Sunday, The Associated Press reported. In total, the country has confirmed more than 24,700 cases and more than 1,800 deaths.
Iran's health ministry reported +1,209 new cases and another 113 deaths, bringing the country's total death toll to 724 with nearly 14,000 confirmed cases. It was the biggest single-day jump in fatalities since the virus was first reported in the country.
The Italian population is the oldest in Europe, with about 23 percent of the inhabitants age 65 or older — and with a median age of 47.3, compared with 38.3 in the US, according to Live Science, which cited the New York Times.
Many of those who have died in Italy were in their 80s and 90s, a segment of the population that is more susceptible to the ravages of COVID-19.
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/346 … ost4126871
Coronavirus Cases calculated from all countries
169,673 Deaths: 6,518 around the world
New cases reported in the past 24 hours world wide 255
This is a promising sign the virus is subsiding in some countries.
Here in USA 3,782 reported case, 102 new cases, and 69 deaths
New cases were up over the last 24 hours.
I have added a link to a site that is keeping good stats on the virus.
I am just amazed that during the H1N1 flue pandemic nothing shut down. A national emergency was not declared until over 1,000 people had died from it.
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, there were about 60.8 million cases of infection with the novel type of influenza virus in the U.S. between April 2009 and April 2010, with a total of approximately 274,304 hospitalizations and 12,469 deaths.
This is about more than Corona, this is about a transfer of power and wealth, this is about an economic downturn and about population control.
As I stated before the vehicle in which this was going to occur was unknown, but the timing was set years ago. The Bank of International Settlements in its reports stated that the U.S. Markets would be the safe haven for the world until this time.
Now our markets will falter, turning sharply negative, and China and the EU will stabilize, the global economy going forward will eventually be beholden to China as they are the industrial nation keeping the world chugging along, America forfeited that position over to them during the past 30 years or so.
This transition can be seen in current reports coming out now.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/morgan-s … 15915.html
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/few-u-sh … 40382.html
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/column-s … 55617.html
For those who do not know it, the dollar is not backed by gold, or by anything of value, other than a deal struck with Saudi Arabia to standardize oil prices in dollar terms, back in the 70s. Through this deal, the petrodollar was born, and its value became reliant (to a large degree) on the price/value of oil.
With the collapse of oil prices, and the major disruption to supplies due to China's "pandemic crisis" the global economic system is ripe for a break down and reconfiguration away from the Dollar to some other form of currency.
This is likely going to happen soon.
I think I'm with you Ken.
For a long time, a crisis was predicted around 2020. The blame is now on the coronavirus. But without the virus, there would also be financial collapse.
The true victims of the coronavirus are not the couple of thousand people dying directly because of the virus. But the thousands, millions who are going to suffer the financial crisis that lays ahead the next years.
With or without a virus, independent of the president of the US, China would have taken over the world power order.
An interesting book to read is : Why the West rules....for now. By Ian Morris. Which predicts China to become a superpower in the next 50 years. Based upon historical and even archeological reasoning. Looking at civilizations over a 200.000 years time span and you can predict what will happen in the future (independent of politics)
The coronavirus is definitely used as a vehicle to go for the disaster capitalism playbook.
Shock and Awe. Paralyze the people and as a government, you can introduce laws people normally would not accept. This was done just after 9-11 and will be done again in the coming months. In the end, benefiting the powers that be.
New cases reported in the past 24 hours world wide 255
This is a promising sign the virus is subsiding in some countries.
Huh? I think you're reading the wrong numbers.
But yes, it is. And it mainly has to do with the strong actions those countries have taken to contain it. Also the high number of people tested.
I'm in survival mode. My already small 401k is tanking. My main job is reliant upon people buying things other than vacations...going on cruises, staying in hotels, buying tv's etc. That's not happening. Parents who work outside of the home and have no other good childcare options are taking kids to a skating rink in our small city. I wish you all the best and hope this is not too long lived.
Sorry. Lets hope it gets under control soon. We're going to be home for the next two weeks, so we're trying to relax and stay calm.
This is my morning now and for the rest of the month
Looks cozy! I bet some fun will be had. We are hoping for the best and getting prepared for the worst (not hoarding TP, lol) especially with finances. I'm thinking if there is a "worst" it wouldn't last too long. It's good that kids can be kept busy with their e-learning also.
It's good that you're getting prepared.
Here we can't find TP, no mask, rubbing alcohol, sanitizer, disinfecting wipes or spray, no cough syrup, etc.. even rice is hard to find now!
Yeah, they're having fun all day for now. But we're going to start some homeschooling in the next days while we're stuck at home.
Dang..some people definitely went overboard with buying up the store. I don't know why people think they need to buy so much sanitizer for one house. We were lucky on that as just bought our monthly allotment of cleaning products several days before the rush.
I'm lucky in that I work from home. I just need more work. I'm ramping up writing efforts and other gig work so it should be enough to whether the slow economy.
Well, sanitizers were gone more than two weeks ago, when people were still going to work and kids going to school. I supposed that's why. But you're right. It's not necessary at home, so Im relieve we're in lockdown.
Im glad you can work from home. I wish you good luck!
This should be the lead in the national news.
More than 60K people have recovered from coronavirus
SEATTLE (AP) — Amid all the fears, quarantines and stockpiling of food, it has been easy to ignore the fact that more than 60,000 people have recovered from the coronavirus spreading around the globe.
The disease can cause varying degrees of illness and is especially troublesome for older adults and people with existing health problems, who are at risk of severe effects, including pneumonia. But for most of those affected, coronavirus creates only mild or moderate symptoms, such as fever and cough, with the vast majority recovering from the virus.
According to the World Health Organization, people with mild illness recover in about two weeks, while those with more severe ailments may take three to six weeks to rebound. In mainland China, where the virus first exploded, more than 80,000 people have been diagnosed, but more than 58,000 already have recovered.
https://fox5sandiego.com/news/coronavir … VvmKCgj_kc
In fact, it is almost 78k out of 175,988 now.
I had a decent fever for two weeks. Never went over 100.1 and hovered around 99.5 mostly. I feel like I'm finally getting over it. I don't go anywhere besides my yard. Whatever it was.
The severity of the illness isn't the issue for most people. A death rate of even 2 or three percent, with more severe cases of about 5 percent will likely overwhelm our health system. I think most understand this.It is good that China is recovering, I think it took some time being quarantined for that to happen though. That's the concern. Some people just buy three months worth of food and essential when a couple weeks is probably sufficient. I think even in Italy, they let people go to the grocery stores at least once a week.
I had a fever for 4 days, my little one too, just like yours. We're all home (except hubby that went to work Friday) since Thursday, just in case. But here, Coronavirus cases are low for now, so I was not that worried. Today we're both fine.
I agree, most people know about the recovery rate. The concern is for the 3.4 mortality rate. Some people dont cae about others until it happens to them.
Here we are under lockdown and curfew, but we still can go to the grocery stores. Obviously, there are safety measures at the stores. Im lucky that I can order online and get groceries delivered.
I think if most Americans have this attitude we can at least minimize the severe health consequences for those that are at high risk.
Cases are low right where I'm at too..at least that we know of. A lot of sickness though, but the flu is also making the rounds. The head of our county health dept said he had patients about two weeks ago now that tested negative for both A and B flu. He told them to self quarantine and just assume they had COVID-19. I better get to work. Best to you and yours as well.
Where are you getting your 3.4 mortality rate? First I heard it was around 5, then 2-3, then 2 and finally 1. Of course none of those include the people that had it and got well without ever reporting it. Or for the figures governments are fudging or simply not reporting (zero cases in Russia, last I saw).
"Heard" from where? Only Trump and right-wing media have been spreading phony numbers about the death rate.
The WHO, Johns Hopkins and governments worldwide have been tracking the death rate and reporting it to the public for months.
It was 3.4% and has risen to 3.9%. Even simple-minded folks can figure it out. Divide the deaths by total infections.
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboar … 7b48e9ecf6
Well, even simple minded people can figure out that since not everyone that has it is reporting it, or knows what they have, since not all people are affected the same way... that death rate is based on KNOWN cases.
And those cases are the severe cases which seek hospitalization.
So know, we don't know what the death rate really is, and we don't have the ability to test people for it unless they already have severe symptoms, in many places, and in most nations.
The nation doing the most testing is South Korea. South Korea has tested more than 140,000 people for the new coronavirus and confirmed more than 6,000 cases. Its fatality rate is around 0.6%. This suggests that, as many health experts have predicted, the virus' fatality rate seems to decrease as more cases are reported. That's because more widespread testing leads more mild cases to be included in the count.
since not everyone that has it is reporting it, or knows what they have, since not all people are affected the same way... that death rate is based on KNOWN cases.
And that's the case with most viruses.
And yes, it is true that the more cases you confirm, the better you can calculate a mortality rate. But, the main reason those countries that tested more have a lower mortality rate is because the more you test, the more you can identify and control the spread.
Most countries dont have the ability to test most of their populations, but they sure have the ability to test more than some of them are doing. US is doing a really poor job on that front.
Both the death rate and infection rate are based on KNOWN cases. Some people are dying from "pneumonia" even though they had coronavirus but weren't tested for it.
Instead of making wild guesses based on simple-minded political propaganda, some of us defer to actual medical experts like the ones at Johns Hopkins.
If Johns Hopkins is wrong and you are right, then prove it.
That wasn't a wild guess... so let me state some COMMON SENSE FACTS for you, again.
South Korea has tested more than 140,000 people for the new coronavirus and confirmed more than 6,000 cases. Its fatality rate is around 0.6%. This suggests that, as many health experts have predicted, the virus' fatality rate seems to decrease as more cases are reported. That's because more widespread testing leads more mild cases to be included in the count.
South Korea has tested 780 TIMES more of its population average than the U.S. or almost any other nation.
So South Korea is the CLOSEST thing to a viable percentage ratio compared to who actually has the virus.
Your numbers, are worthless regardless of who is providing them,because they are only taking into account those that are reported and known to have had the virus... which in total is probably less than 10% of the people who have had it, or carry it, considering how little testing has been done, and how recently.
Only South Korea has done anything resembling substantial testing of a large enough portion of its population to be worth considering.
But keep fear mongering, if that is what makes you happy.
I guess that's your way of claiming:
1. You know more about coronavirus than Johns Hopkins.
2. You are an expert on the South Korea health care system and coronavirus response.
3. The only people who have died from it are only the ones who got tested.
Hopefully I am a rational counter to your obtuse determination to spread fear and incorrect information as to the lethality of the virus.
"Which in total is probably less than 10% of the people who have had it."
Yeah, your wild guesses are really helpful in protecting the population from this deadly pandemic.
Funny thing is, even Trump is finally admitting the truth. You might want to rejoin his bandwagon. He has left you far behind.
Try reading the links I provided... and attempt to digest the reality it presents.
So what? That's one country. Quit cherrypicking and focus. Again:
Are you an expert on the South Korea health care system and its coronavirus response?
Why is Johns Hopkins wrong and you right? Still waiting for that proof.
Let's also add, why is Donald Trump wrong and you right?
So,Ken, your opinion is that everyone is overreacting?
And as I stated below, the death rate in South Korea for those over 60 is 3.4%.
Oct 02, 2018 · Nearly 80 percent of those who died from flu were 65 or older — 12,230
Jul 13, 2011 · An average of approximately 226,000 influenza-related excess hospitalizations occurred per year, with 63% of all hospitalizations occurring among persons aged > 65 years. Influenza-related deaths …
The world didn't come to a stop for the Flu.
It shouldn't be coming to a stop for Corona.
Yes people over the age of 60 are more susceptible, to this virus and any other.
But for the average... in the one country doing significant testing... it is 0.6% and going down as the testing continues.
I never thought I'd see the day when I had to defend Donald Trump with a hot-tempered Trump voter.
You determination to remain ignorant is impressive.
Hopefully those with open minds will read the links provided and recognize that this is not a catastrophic pandemic... though the current reactions to it, and shutting down everything because of it, certainly may be catastrophic to economies globally, and millions of people that lose their jobs because of it.
You kind of ignored my point. And that said, I don’t disagree with your basic premise. You used figure that don’t compare. Again, death rate in South Korea for those over 60 is 3.4%.
In South Korea, the death rate for patients 60 and older from COVID-19 is 3.4% and is overall still quite a bit higher than the flu. So probably still worth taking it seriously, wouldn't you say?
Actually the 3.9 percent fatality rate is for China. When China is taken out of the mix, it is 3.5 percent for the world.
Case fatality rate globally = 3.7%
[based on 153,523 confirmed cases and 5736 deaths]
Case fatality rate in China: 3.9%
[based on 81,038 confirmed cases and 3204 deaths]
Case fatality rate for the rest of the world: 3.5%
[based on 72,475 confirmed and 2532 deaths]
Other flu pandemics were worse.
As comparisons, the table shows the case fatality rates for other disease outbreaks. The CFR of SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV were high: 10% and 34%, respectively.41
Here is the statistics for the United States.
NOW the fatality rate is determined by dividing the number of deaths by the number of those infected with the disease.
77 divided by 4349 is 1.8 percent.
THAT is the mortality rate in the United States as of March 2020
This is wrong "NOW the fatality rate is determined by dividing the number of deaths by the number of those infected with the disease."
Simply put, there is no way of knowing who has it, because they are doing almost no testing for it in America... so how many DETECTED cases are what the numbers represent.
https://www.businessinsider.com/south-k … ate-2020-3
South Korea is about the only country doing real and substantive testing, and their numbers are 0.6% percent.
The WHO and others who are spreading this misperception that you have almost a 4% chance of dying from it are doing the world a disservice... they are creating a panic that will have potentially catastrophic results on the global economy and millions of jobs.
Ken, you may be right. The one caveat is the overall health of our nation. If the Coronavirus is only six times more deadly than the flu, might the numbers in the U.S. be higher than that due to obesity, for instance? If that ended up making the death rate say 1.2%, is that acceptable?
Cardiovascular disease (CVD) remains the leading cause of death in the United States, responsible for 840,768 deaths (635,260 cardiac) in 2016.
Is that acceptable?
The obesity of Americans which you discuss is directly related to our fast food diets and propensity for smoking.
Are you outraged or expectant that our government and will step in and try and counter the Fast Food and Tobacco industries?
Did you know that almost everything that is served by McDonalds (and others like it) is subsidized by the U.S. Government, the cheese, the beef, the potatoes, etc. GMOs, Preservatives, all the worst things that can be in foods are used excessively in their products.
The Heart Disease and Stroke Statistics—2019 Update from the American Heart Association indicates that: 116.4 million, or 46% of US adults are estimated to have hypertension.
Are we shutting down the Burger Kings and McDonalds in America because they are a leading contributor to poor health and Heart Disease deaths in America?
So far, the CDC has estimated (based on weekly influenza surveillance data) that at least 12,000 people have died from influenza between Oct. 1, 2019 through Feb. 1, 2020.
Are we shutting down the nation over the Flu?
Are 12,000 deaths (or more) acceptable?
This has been going on for 100 years, why is it allowed?
Let us say Corona is 6 times that bad, that could lead to 72,000 deaths, of which the majority will be the elderly and those who are smokers and/or have lung related health issues.
That is a far cry from the more than 840,000 people who died from Heart Disease last year.
But the country never stopped functioning... not for Heart Attacks & Strokes, and not for the Flu.
Caution and precautions are a good thing, I'm just not sure this warrants such extremes as we are heading into, with society shutting down and people being stirred to a panic.
So you're a Bernie supporter? (you seem to be saying our healthcare system is broken - sort of) Look, Ken, I suspect you and I are more alike than not because the things you cite above are all things I agree with. I don't eat fast food. I exercise regularly. I think fat people should pay a hell of a lot more for health insurance and it pisses me off that I have to subsidize them with my insurance payments.
All the stuff you're citing is why our population is vulnerable, making my point.
Unfortunately, while your math on South Korea is right, you're demonstrating how misinformation is spread on the internet. You're using a .6% death rate figure out of context.
South Korea has the highest testing rate per capita of any country. The testing itself lowers the death rate by identifying the serious cases and removing them from the population and the mild cases and having them self-isolate. You're completely ignoring that little fact. The U.S. has the worst testing rate. That is a gigantic variable.
The populations are also different. Another important variable.
And your math on the deaths is wrong.
We have 327 million people in this country. Because of the lack of testing and the delayed response, virtually everyone in the country is likely to get this if we don't put in preventative measures.
In your scenario, where we just all relax, at .6%, that's almost 2 million dead. And that's with the conservative death rate that's likely wrong.
I'm not saying you might not be correct, but how are you willing to take that chance and find out you're not?
South Korea's death rate also is low because women and people under 40 make up the majority of infections. Coronavirus kills men in higher numbers than women.
More than 60 percent of its cases are linked to the Shincheonji Church of Jesus, which has a large number of women and young people.
Promisem, I think it's primarily their amazing testing program that lowered the death rate.
Comparing South Korea to Italy is very instructive. Our current infection pattern is following Italy, not South Korea.
So while I respect Ken's intellect and his math skills (except his very wrong death rate number), he's downplaying the virus based on a comparison that's not accurate.
Ken may even be correct - we're overreacting. However, most scientists think he's wrong. If he's right, that's great. If he's wrong, and we follow that sort of guidance, there will be nothing we can do to stop a catastrophe once we realize that, whoops, Ken was wrong.
Crank, I suggest you do some research on the demographics of deaths and infections in each country. They are apples and oranges. There is no one answer.
I'm aware. Ken is taking the most optimistic case and using it as his basis for his conclusion. But if you take Italy, you can't come to the same conclusion.
In a time of crisis, this is the big negative of the internet. Do you take the advice of experts or the advice of random people on chat boards?
A shocking number of people prefer what they get on the chat boards and/or forums.
If I'm looking to buy a home, Ken might be my guy. If I'm looking for sound advice on viruses, not so much.
I think that is a sound and rational viewpoint.
However, there is no getting around that this is going to be devastating to millions of people world wide. The people struggling to get by, the people who will go weeks, or months, without going to work.
Where I work, I drive by a port filled with very large cruise ships, all parked, not going anywhere... representing hundreds, if not thousands of people who are not making a paycheck.
Airports, Malls, Movie Theatres, are the obvious and I am sure there are many that are not so obvious... the longer this goes on, the more irreparable the damage.
To say nothing of the supply lines of materials from China that will stop, and the lack of resources nation wide that have been sold out of stores, that will not be restocked... this is a national run on supplies, like a regional run in preparation for a hurricane... only country wide... they cannot produce the supplies fast enough to replace them.
Could be very troubling times ahead... all over this pandemic panic that could have, and should have been handled in a more reasoned way... by our media, by the WHO, by the "experts".
Instead we are heading toward curfews and closings nationally, and who knows what comes after that.
"In your scenario, where we just all relax, at .6%, that's almost 2 million dead. And that's with the conservative death rate that's likely wrong."
Your math is a little skewed (by perhaps 90%?). You are assuming that we have 327 million people at risk of not only getting the disease but also from dying from it. As the deaths all seem to be coming from the elderly and those with lung problems already that figure is grossly inflated.
Pure guesswork, but I'd probably put the death rate at even less than 0.6%, with the reason being that I don't believe we're counting a very large number of people that got the disease and never reported it.
Again, you could be right. But the most conservative death rate is .6%. The death rate for the elderly in South Korea is 3.4%. According to most projections due to our lack of preparedness, virtually everyone in the U.S. will get the virus.
Sure, I could be wrong. But I'm using the lowest death rate across all social groups as an example. I certainly hope I'm wrong, but that's why medical experts are recommending we flatten the curve now.
I suppose then there is no way of knowing who has had the disease and recovered from it. Most cases of it are mild and many people have tested positive, had no symptoms and then had negative tests. It is a difficult thing to calculate.
So it's mild for most and we should ignore it? Calm down? Live our lives as normal?
I think everyone should calm down. It has a 97 percent recovery rate. The world has faced worse pandemics with little or no interruption to daily life. H1N1 was worse and lasted over a year. Nothing closed down. So, why is it done now? Majority of cases are mild, most recover from them. I think the reaction is way over the top considering how previous pandemics came and went with little or no change to daily life.
Under your scenario, everyone in the U.S. will get it and the health system would be overwhelmed. What they're trying to do is slow it down so the health system doesn't collapse.
And what if you're wrong, given you're contradicting most of the medical experts? Who takes a chance like that? Even at the most conservative death rate estimate, you could have 2 million people dead.
I still look at history and don't know why previous pandemics didn't overwhelm the health system. I know with H1N1 there were massive deaths around the world. Here is info from the CDC.
"It is estimated that 0.001 percent to 0.007 percent of the world’s population died of respiratory complications associated with (H1N1)pdm09 virus infection during the first 12 months the virus circulated."
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resour … demic.html
I know, the argument I get when I mention this is "We don't want such a thing to happen again, now do we?"
So, I still don't understand the shut down of businesses, but, it is what it is and I have to deal with it.
I think it's a legitimate question. But if you look at Italy, I think we'd rather not be Italy. I think there's no chance we can be South Korea due to their testing per capita.
The problem is not the virus.
The problem will be all the people not working, and not having money to pay their bills.
The supply chain is already overwhelmed, just go to any large foodstore anywhere in America, the shelves are emptying across the nation, they are only able to supply what comes off the trucks on delivery... and those trucks will have less and less to deliver, the likes of Campbells Soup and Borden's Butter can only produce so much, so fast.
China will start hoarding its medical supplies and pharmaceuticals, cutting off America. Almost all items necessary for daily survival are currently produced in foreign lands, much of our food, drugs, and technology is imported.
We are creeping towards very dangerous times where without Martial Law our Nation may not survive... this is what happens when you outsource everything and have almost no ability to produce what you need within your country's borders.
Ken, what's your solution? Your assertion that the virus isn't the problem sounds ridiculous. Do you see it as a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario? The problems from a crushed healthcare systems seems pretty big.
I see it as a virus that is similar to the Flu.
Which it is.
But there is nothing at this point that can be done, other than leadership re-directing as much research resources as possible to finding a vaccine, and also trying to mitigate the growing panic.
What France is doing, is ultimately the worst case scenario, but France has been doing all the wrong things for a few years now, the Yellow Vest movement wasn't born yesterday... Macron deploying 100,000 police to imprison his country's population is an extreme that screams oppression.
Lets hope things don't go that way here in America, for all Trump's faults, he is a brilliant leader and fellow American compared to the likes of Macron and France.
A nationwide lockdown, enforced by police. France is now a police state, the virus was the excuse, we will see where it leads, and how long the people are oppressed.
If two million dead is okay with you.
Like other Libertarians in the forum, your answer is let the chips fall where they may.
What would the death rate need to be for you to take it seriously?
Media is beginning to compare the corona virus to the Spanish flu of 1918 that killed over 50 million people. Spreading fear and panic over a mild illness. Meanwhile the government is usurping as much power from it's citizens as possible.
Don't look to an inept government bureaucracy to solve problems. Wash your hands, cough into your sleeve, stay hydrated, and turn off your television.
If you're otherwise healthy, you probably don't have much to worry about. But if you go about your daily life, you're likely to infect those that aren't healthy and put them at grave risk. Our citizens aren't exactly the most healthy overall. I guess if you're fat, sucks to be you.
Liberals are usually into population control, is a plague not a proper death sentence or is killing the unborn the only acceptable method?
Doesn’t even make any sense. Stick to memes. Abortion bad. I get it. Your overall understanding of social dynamics is desperately simplistic.
Typical non answer. I'll assume the standard protocol is whatever enables the government to intervene in the lives of citizens.
Why should I engage? Your solution to the current problem is to let everyone do what they want and let the chips fall where they may because all those liberal scientists are out to get us.
You already did engage. And yes, I'd rather see the chips fall where they may for a disease that has a 97% survival rate than give the government unlimited power.
According to your math, you're okay with 9 million dead people.
The Spanish Flu of 1918 was terrifying, but it largely occurred due to the deplorable living conditions for most people at that time.
The above is a well done review of how the 1918 pandemic went, other than a couple misplaced (wrong World War) pics it gives great visuals as to why it was so bad.
Outhouses, no running water, people living in stark barracks overfull, hospitals with patients literally on top of one another, dirt streets, horses for transportation... it was another world, so different from our own it might as well have been the Dark Ages and the Black Plague.
Ken, you live in Florida. Seen the reports on the mass of spring-breakers flooding the beaches?
That raises a bunch of interesting questions. Like why am I staying home in near isolation if all these people are just going to go party?
I guess capitalism is working just fine in this situation.
All the sovereign individuals find that they can manage everything perfectly on their own. No need for help from the State.
Business can solve all the problems. Business is good. The market will correct itself.
Have fun, everybody.
Live long, and prosper.
https://libertyconservative.com/29000-r … rs-racist/
Randy, notice anything? I"m seeing clearly how, with some, everything is a conspiracy. I don't know how you live being that paranoid all the time, but the opinions are quite clear: this virus is nothing more than a liberal plot to begin a police state.
Indeed, check out LTL's claim above...
Randy, I guess I didn't quite understand before, but what you have here are paranoid people, afraid of anything government does, and concluding that anything that happens in the world they don't like is some grand conspiracy. Given that, I don't think it's productive to argue with them anymore. These are the people who believe Pizzagate and believe Sandy Hook was faked and believe climate change is something the scientists made up. No matter how occasionally sane some of their prose and sentence construction may appear, they are not well and they live in fear and paranoia. They are afraid, all the time, that the government is coming to take their guns.
What conspiracy? Are you guys redefining another word?
I didn't use the word "conspiracy" anywhere, LTL.
You should change your handle to "gaslighter".
Conspiracy in the virus being a conspiracy by the Chinese or the U.S. government to enact a police state. The theory has been thrown around by a number of people that overreaction to the virus is exactly what the government has needed to take our freedoms away.
Shocker, Liberals calling people racist.
You sure you want to bicker with me Randy, I saw you whining about getting banned for two days straight. Hilarious!
Not much bickering with silly memes as are your ordinary posts, Joey. How can you tell I'm whining, Joey? I'm simply standing up for others as well as myself, something you probably have never tried before.
This is too true!
Has anyone noticed Bernie Sanders and the GOP are the only people in power trying to help the average American right now? Therest of the democrats are protecting corporations and turning their backs on the populace.
Pay attention people.
"The rest of the democrats are protecting corporations and turning their backs on the populace."
Got a link for this claim, LTL? It's the first I've heard of this. Or are you "trumping" it again? Ever hear of Andrew Cuomo?
Talking about Washington democrats. Cuomo is a governor doing a fine job of trying to react in the best interest of his citizens.
Some examples of those "turning their backs"would be nice....
Now you're a proponent of welfare?
On the bright side my kids are now being taught by Youtube, Science by Bill Nye, Physics by Neil Tyson, Economics by Ron Swanson, Skip social studies (useless), PE by Tony Horton.
The schools did however, do me the favor of stealing my money and packaged lunches for the kids and redistributed it at twice the price.
February 26 - There were 15 confirmed coronavirus cases in US. No deaths.
Only 3 weeks later...
March 18 - There are 8,000+ confirmed cases. 120+ deaths.
Oh hell, Onusonus. Even knowing that is fake, it is still cute. Sorry to hear about your recent banning. (?)
My mistake. I thought I read that you were.
I thought I did too, Gus. At least someone emailed me he was banned along with two more "bickerers."
And the inanity continues.....
Just taking back the money the government stole from me.
A check to accomplish quite a few things. Help those who've spent money they did not have budgeted for emergency supplies, stimulate the economy, give a small (and admittedly short lived) sense of security to those frightened by the immediate future and drive home to the individual that the individual is at the forefront of the priorities of those in charge during this multi faceted crisis and (very important) allow those who are consistently negative at every juncture to drive home the fact that they would rather be part of the problem than part of the solution...that they'd rather complain than look for the positive.
Quite the bargain, when you think about it.
My e-sarcastic response to the ridiculous post by Onus clearly passed you by. Glad you chose to let his slide by though.
E-sarcastic. You guys come up with so many new words its hard to keep up. But, I'm glad it was sarcasm.
The American people, in my opinion, are the greatest reason to support deficit spending and socialist moments, when it is warranted and this crisis makes it definitely warranted.
We are all frightened, no matter what face we put on it. I appreciate all of the efforts being taken. Watching any other country's leadership and their press conferences helps me see this administration, at this critical moment, is doing the best of what I need to see being done.
Now they are...dismissing the severity of it for the first three months of the threat will not be forgotten when it's time to vote.
But I agree with your thought about finding a candidate who neither promotes programs we cannot afford or spends when we do not have the money to spend. For all his faults, you had to appreciate Bill Clinton for actually running a surplus.
I interpret the first of this differently from you. I saw a president attempting to allay fears and give a sense of security. I don't begrudge that moment.
The only miss here is that Congress controls the purse strings, not the President.
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