Is Bernie Sanders a fraud?

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   Stevennix2001posted 4 years ago

   After talking to some conservative friends of mine, who shall remain anonymous as their identities are not important to this discussion, a lot of them feel Bernie Sanders is not only a sell out, but a fraud as well.  I don't personally agree with that at all, but this is what they've told me.
   
   They feel he's a fraud because recently Bernie Sanders has publicly cast his support for Joe Biden to become the next presidential candidate in this year's election.  Citing how it's hypocritical of Bernie to say he's an anti establishment candidate only to end up endorsing an establishment candidate like Biden just like he did in 2016, when he endorsed Hilary Clinton, another establishment candidate. 
   
   Again, I just want to point out that these are NOT my opinions, as I even voted for Bernie Sanders myself in 2016, and the only reason I didn't vote him this year, or any candidate for that matter, is because after seeing how the democratic primaries screwed Bernie out of the nomination in 2016, it made me realize the elections were rigged, so why bother voting at all?  that's why I didn't vote this year, and figured Bernie didn't have a chance to win, so him dropping out and endorsing Biden was inevitable and honestly doesn't surprise me as I expected him to do that because he had no shot to win the nomination this year anyways in the democratic primaries.  Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is either selling something, or they're blind sheep to the truth.  The elections are rigged for the most part.  The fact that Biden is the front runner doesn't surprise me as i figured it would be either him or Elizabeth Warren that would win the democratic nomination this year, and it doesn't look like I'm going  to be proven wrong.  Anyways, what are your thoughts on this?

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      Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

      I agree, Bernie has not sold out and is the most authentic of candidates in the race. Bernie is a team player, so he is not going to let bad blood between democratic factions facitate the reelection of Trump, the prevention of which is more important than any of our differences. It is not about him nor his ego, but the unity of the Democratic Party. Better to endorse an "establishment Democrat" over 4 more years of Trump.
      
      Yes, the entire system is rigged, and any candidate who comes along and is serious about unrigging it is going to be short circuited by powers whose reach go far beyond mere partisan issues. Such was the fate of Warren and Bernie.
      
      Liz Warren had to be deep sixed as another challenger to the establishment and status quo. Biden's sudden rise from the ashes after South Carolina I still find suspicious.  But, that is just my opinion.
      
      I would still grasp at any straw to get Trump down the road next January 20th.

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         GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         "Liz Warren had to be deep sixed as another challenger to the establishment and status quo."
         
         It is my impression that it was the Democrat primaries' voters that "deep-sixed" Warren. Do you think that is wrong?
         
         What do you think the 'powers-that-be' did to deep-six her?
         
         GA

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            Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

            https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/26/wall-st … nated.html
            
            GA, I don't know what they did beyond publically made threats about a Warren candidacy. As far as I am concerned anyone that can make Wall Street and the Corporate Class shiver in their boots is my candidate and has my support. With the unearned power and affluence of these groups, their ability to control or rig outcomes are not beyond the realm of possibility out of public view, surreptitiously.  Maybe, the idea of the "smoke filled" room has not really gone away? Maybe "establishment Democrats" DINOs, folded up  like a lawn chair in the face of Wall Street threats?
            
            And, yes, as I told you before, as a member of the party, I must support the decision of the delegates, but that does not mean that I have to like it
            
            I am your classic West coast liberal and as such, the Rightwinger's greatest nightmare.

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               wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               "As far as I am concerned anyone that can make Wall Street and the Corporate Class shiver in their boots is my candidate and has my support."
               
               That would be Donald Trump, then. 
               
               But if that's what you want it isn't going to happen.  The people sent that message (the existing power structure must end) with the election of Trump, but the Democratic party didn't listen and instead tried to reinforce the same structure (corporate owned politicians) with more of the same.  It's been 4 years and they still haven't listened - I don't believe they ever will.

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                  Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  No, Trump is one of them and he certainly would not qualify as one that is a creation and part and parcel of the "establishment" that so desparetely needs reform.
                  
                  I will ideologically stick was Warren and Sanders types, thank you.
                  
                  Rightwing populism is never the answer.

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               GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               I think you missed my point Cred. I am saying that, as shown by the primary vote results, it was not the 'powers-that-be', or "smoke-filled room" deals that knocked Warren out of the race, it was every-day Democrat voters.
               
               Of course, those powers and deal-makers you speak of may have worked against her with ads and messaging, but it was still the voters that said no. Surely you don't think the 'riggers' reached out to individual voters in masse'?
               
               GA

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                  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  I think you are right on this point. The voters chose Biden.

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                  Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes, I know that I really don't have any basis for my thought and it may be that what is the obvious is probably true.
                  
                  I am just suspicious as to how fortunes could change for Biden so quickly and in so all an encompassing way.
                  
                  Well, so far it looks like the moderates have won this round, let's hope that their "moderation" is enough to beat Donald Trump in the fall.

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                     Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     You have to remember there were only a few states who had voted before Biden took the lead. It was a misleading lead for Bernie in the beginning.

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                        Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        This is true, Randy.
                        
                        I was just so disappointed that so many of us can be so easily folded up to fit in the attaché case provided.

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                           Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           I do believe it's desperation to get rid of this POS in the WH more than anything, Cred. He simply has to go before he destroys our country.

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                        GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        That is a good point Randy. It fits with my thought that Warren and Sanders were trying to push too much too fast, (sorry to bum you out Cred), but major progress must come in steps, not leaps.
                        
                        My opinion is that Sanders beat out Warren because he was more real, (ok, seemed more real), than she was. And the voters saw that. But, when it came to the finish line—even Democrat voters thought he was too extreme.
                        
                        GA

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                           Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           Instead of steps and leaps, I saw the right candidates as the equivalent of a opportunistic launch window that may well not return. We may never have circumstances where candidates of Warren and Bernie's caliber and ideas would be available again anytime soon. The "powers" that I referenced in a earlier post will see to that......
                           
                           But ultimately, Randy is right, Trump has to go.

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      Eastwardposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      I'd agree with you and Credence that Bernie isn't a fraud, he was screwed by the DNC in 2016 and 2020, the elections are rigged for the most part, and that he would inevitably endorse Biden if he failed to secure the nomination (he's continuously said as much).
      
      It's disappointing to see him endorse Biden, but I believe him when he says he thinks the most important thing is defeating Trump. So, he'll stump for The Establishment and play the game of lesser-of-two-evils whether he likes it or not. Bernie is a "revolution" within the system man through-and-through. As far as that goes, I think he's done about as much for the people as possible. Unfortunately, it's not enough. The spark he has ignited in others may eventually be.

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      gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Bernie isn't a fraud.  He just lives in a fantastical world of his own making.  He knows that his unrealistic, convoluted socioeconomic policies won't ever come to fruition..   Money rules the world.   That is reality.  Those who have money rule the world while those who don't are slaves in one form or another.

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