Michigan Says It All About Coronavirus and the Political Divide
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 … s-protest/
People in Michigan took to the streets and marched on the capital in Lansing, Michigan chanting "lock her up" in reference to Governor Gretchen Whitmer.
Here we're seeing right-wing politics coming fully into play.
1. Protestors defied a stay-at-home order and gathered in large groups, assuring that the virus will likely spread further.
2. They chanted "lock her up", a common Trump theme used against Hillary Clinton. Apparently they think their governor should be in jail for trying to keep the virus from spreading.
3. Right-wing media poured gas all over the fire by pushing the notion that restrictions should be eased and people allowed back to work.
This will only get worse. The irony here is that if the protestors get what they want, the economy will be wrecked anyway as the healthcare system in Michigan will collapse, deaths will increase, and nobody will be able to work.
Do they not realize that they're only prolonging what's already happening?
And the final irony - if the U.S. had prepared better for this pandemic and taken it seriously earlier, they wouldn't be in the position they're in.
They're following a message from their president - open the economy now!
Is that a good idea?I do think it's time to begin opening up. Partially, at least.
I like the stance our governor is taking - a longer list of "essential" business that may open...if the offer curbside or drive up service. IF they take certain steps to protect employees. No big gatherings, which means no gyms, no bars, no events, etc.
The idea that our economy, and society, can endure indefinite lockdown is, to me, very false. We already have thousands of small business that will never recover, and tens of thousands more than will take a very long time to do so. We are, I believe, on the cusp of a total economic meltdown; another 3 or 4 months could very achieve that with worse long term results than any virus.
There is also the problem that people are sick of it (most everybody, in spite of your characterization that they are only the "right wing" group). How much longer will people pay any attention? Are we going to jail anyone violating the orders, sticking them into a large gathering and simply letting them die there?I think the protestors intentionally gathered into a large group to send the signal that they think it's all just bogus. And they want to jail the governor for doing her job to protect the public health.
Without the support of the federal government, the stay-at-home orders are going to fall apart all over the country and there will be no coordinated return to work. It will just be the people who are most sick of it going back because they've decided they know better.
I agree, there can be some kind of coordinated return to work with appropriate testing and pretty strict distancing and PPE rules.
And hey, I live in a very liberal city. The governor has told everyone to wear masks in public. I've barely seen 50% of people following the rule, so I guess everyone just decides for themselves, kind of like vaccines.Yes, they gathered in a large group. So did some church goers and some beach party aficionados. Which is a part of what I said - people aren't going to do it indefinitely. When they get hungry, when the repo man comes for their car, when they get the eviction or repossession notice on their house it's all over. Or, maybe, when they just get tired of it all. God knows I miss seeing my grandchildren!
But I do agree that federal govt. support will help. Fortunately we have that with Trumps announcement today.
The Michigan Conservative Coalition sponsored the protest. I live in Michigan and being a Republican I am aware of the Michigan Conservative Coalition. They are very determined to have Governor Whitmer recalled. Her restrictions for the COVID19 crisis are very different from other states. And many here are not willing to abide by some of them. They are clearly ridiculous. Our local state police reported that there were over 10 thousand cars and at no time did the protest get out of hand. Other than some chanting Lock her up, and Trump 2020. and “She’s driving us out of business. We’re driving to Lansing.” Another operation Gridlock is scheduled for this Wednesday.
Michigan is a Trump country. I live in a community that was previously filled with Democrats, now one would be hard to find.
So far in my community, all are following the better part of the stay at home orders.
"And the final irony - if the U.S. had prepared better for this pandemic and taken it seriously earlier, they wouldn't be in the position they're in."
Does that include the Obama administration?
Obama hasn't been POTUS for over three years, Shar? Was he privy to the US intel Trump received back in November? Did Trump follow the pandemic playbook written just for this sort of thing in 2015? The answers are no, and no.
I want to see those protesting the shutdown back to work first, and after a few weeks if they don't have a real spike in the virus, then the sensible people will have some sort of incentive to return to everyday life.
I wish you luck and I'm pleased you feel the need to volunteer.
Well, Sharlee, your world must be quite small. From what I read, Michigan is a blue state, predominantly Democrat, what about Wayne County?
As I said I live in Michigan, the Trump support is palpable. Not sure what sites you are getting your information from. But I can assure you Michigan is Trump country. Dem's have no footing here. In the 2016 election, all 16 electro votes went to Trump. His popularity has done nothing but grows due to his job performance.
My observation has been that some people will follow the CDC guidelines while some won't. The lockdown has proven that. So what purpose does the lockdown really serve? For those who willingly already follow social distancing guidelines?
I've been watching the daily number of new cases in several states. They are under lockdown and have been long enough for new cases to bottom out. But they haven't. Why? Many are not following the rules.
I have continued the same routine I started, prior to mandatory changes. The only thing I have changed is to start wearing a face mask when the CDC began recommending it.
The point is, the lock down does unfairly target people who are already aware and acting with social distancing and CDC recommendations at the forefront of their mind. They don't need a lock down to follow the guidelines. Those who aren't following the guidelines now obviously won't whether in a lock down or not.
True, but Trump was given all the electoral votes. Trump 16 Clinton 0
https://www.nytimes.com/elections/2016/results/michigan1/4 of a percentage point doesn't sound like much of a Trump landslide, Shar.
You said the "Dem's [sic] have no footing here."
Seems like a massive overstatement.It's my opinion, I have watched an entire community I live in becoming Trump supporters. The Detriot Metro area is mainly auto executives and auto workers. Trump has lined many pockets in Michigan, and lots of money is being donated to his campaign.
https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2 … chase.htmlIf Michigan is Trump country, how did they elect a Democrat as governor?
Also wondering if you are using the fact that Trump received all of Michigan's electoral votes as a basis for concluding that Michigan is Trump country if he only won the popular vote by .3%. Are you emphasizing that the 16 electoral votes proves his overwhelming popularity or do you not understand that even if he had won Michigan by only a single vote, he still would have received their 16 electoral votes.I am very aware of how the electoral college works. I was simply pointing out it matters little that Hillary came close to winning Michigan. Trump won an walked away with the 16 electoral votes. I was trying to be a bit polite. Forgot the forum I am posting on. Well, now I have used the loser's name. Really did not want to go there. But learning fast.
I voted For Gov. Whitmer. It was a choice of her or Bill Schuette a man I found unacceptable. for many reasons. Many Republicans disliked Bill Schuette. At this point, I can see she turned out ill equipt to handle the job of running the state. She was a disappointment from her very first days in office. But, I am very sure Bill Schuette would have been just as bad or worse. Hopefully, I have better to choose from next time around.Being polite how? Was I being impolite? It seems impolite to denigrate the citizens of your fine state who voted for Clinton by implying that they live in Trump country when your state appears pretty purple. Just because Trump got the electoral votes doesn't support your assertion that the state is overwhelmingly for Trump and it seemed that was the point you were making.
I did not accuse you of being impolite. I did not point out anything but the fact Trump won 16 electoral votes. I was referring to the 2016 election and giving my opinion in regard to Trump's support in the state I live in. No more no less... In my view. I suggest you read all my comments on this thread. I in no way denigrated any voters that voted for Hillary Clinton. Not sure which of my statements would have given you that view. In regard to "Trump having a foothold in Michigan" in my opinion he does. Why do I feel this, I think I gave some information in my comments about how I came to that opinion. I have lived in my community for over 30 years, it was a Democratic-leaning community it has turned in to a very Republican community. I am well aware of many other communities that have followed this same pattern over the past few years. I pointed out the fact that the Trump campaign has collected far more funds then the Democratic party. here in Michigan. These are just two indicators that I considered that led me to my opinion on Trump's popularity in Michigan.
You claim that Michigan is predominantly Republican, yet Trump won the state by a mere .3% of the popular vote and you have a governor who is a Democrat. What is your evidence that Michigan is predominantly Republican?
Your governor, lt. governor, secretary of state, and attorney general are all Democrats. Your representation in the House of Represenatives is 7 Democrats and 6 Republicans. Your two senators are both Democrats.
I'm curious how you came to your conclusion. Seems like a very purple state.You are looking at what occurred three years ago. I am making you aware of what I have witnessed over the past few years. I certainly can't prove my opinion, I can only offer why I came to have that opinion. To repeat my comment---
"I have lived in my community for over 30 years, it was a Democratic-leaning community it has turned in to a very Republican community. I am well aware of many other communities that have followed this same pattern over the past few years. I pointed out the fact that the Trump campaign has collected far more funds then the Democratic party. here in Michigan. These are just two indicators that I considered that led me to my opinion on Trump's popularity in Michigan."
It is certainly your right to have your opinion. I am not out to try to change it. I would think the upcoming election will be the final determination of Trump's popularity in Michigan.Seems like you have some anecdotal evidence, but that does not mean it applies outside of the county you live. Evidence suggests there are swings going both ways.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/ … 694443002/“They’re making decisions irrespective of party,” This is an interesting comment from the article you offered. To me, it rings very true when it comes to choosing who to vote for.
"But last year, the Trump-backed candidate for governor — Bill Schuette — not only lost to Democrat Gretchen Whitmer, he saw a bunch of counties that supported Trump swing to her."
I voted for Whitmer having to make a choice between two that left a lot to be desire. Schutte had more baggage, and I did not care at all for his agenda. I know find myself very disappointed with Whitmer, even long before her poor handling of this virus crisis she was clearly over her head running the business of the state. Michiganiganders appear to not always follow party lines, but what I have learned look at what a candidate is offering.
As I have said on many occasions I vote agenda.How has Whitmer handled the virus crisis poorly in your estimation?
Whitmer was late in initiating stay at home as well as other common sense mitigations. As well as she was late in closing Michigan casinos. She left liquor stores open, even after it has become a problem for the police to contain large crowds from loitering outside them. Liquor stores still remain open to this very day.
Whitmer ordered all big box stores to stop selling paint, carpets, and other home-improvement material, though she does allow lottery ticket sales, and liquor stores to stay open. Probably because the proceeds go to the state funds. She also felt it necessary to keep open abortion clinics and marijuana stores.
Whitmer shut down lawn-care services, Tree and Lawn Specialist, these companies purchase hundreds of thousands of dollars of fertilizer and other supplies were ordered stop spraying its plants in the middle of the spring season, risking the loss of entire crops. (Michigan's gardening industry, with an estimated retail value of $580 million to $700 million and 9,000 employees, faces a complete loss this year.
In addition to large gatherings , she also barred families that don't share a home from getting together.
She forbade families from traveling to their vacation cottages in northern Michigan. She shut down golf courses and prohibited motorized boats but allowed rowboats and kayaks on waterways. She forbid hunting as well as fishing.
Whitmer has decreed that violations will count as misdemeanors punishable by up to a $1,000 civil fine to anyone that sees fit to defy her rules. Criminal penalties are also on the table, should prosecutors choose to pursue. To add fuel to the fire Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel has gone full out China and is encouraged employees to rat out their bosses and call the police if they try to open up shop in violation of the lockdown.
What's so outrageous about all this is that the new businesses and activities that Whitmer is targeting can all be safely conducted while adhering to strict social distancing rules. Whitmer's new order has already prompted four Michigan residents and a couple of large landscaping company, to sue her for violating their right to free association and perpetrating an uncompensated regulatory taking.
Many landscapers are ignoring her orders and are out doing their jobs. As was the company that grooms my lawns and gardens. They were on the job this morning, and I could see the crew were keeping separation, but doing their jobs.
Whitmer is due to have a press conference today, and I expect she will lift many of her rules. If not I also assume many will continue to ignore them the ones they find unreasonable. It well appears Michiganders are following the stay at home guideline, wearing masks in public as well as safe spacing and no more than a few in any given store at one time. People are fishing, boating, and gardening in regards to her overzealous rules. The liquor stores are still a problem, and the abortion clinics are up and running. and all that want to buy weed can.
The petition to recall Whitmer is collecting signature... Does not seem she played her cards well during this crisis with several Recall petitions hanging over her head.Too bad we can't recall Trump for his mismanagement of the virus. I'd sign that petition in a heartbeat!
I feel he has done a very good job handling this crisis. I have not recognized any problems he did not solve to the best of his ability. The testing has been slow due to just not having enough companies to supply as many test swabs as we actually need, and the Chemicals to do the test come from China, and they are not really supplying it to us in quantities we need. I did note that as of yesterday Trump says he will use the Defense Production Act to increase the production of needed slabs.
He has also made sure at this point we have good stockpiles of any and all we would need if we were to ever experience another pandemic.
But, guess once again we can agree to disagree."We stopped it." "anyone who wants a test can get one." This was over a month ago and the tests are still difficult to get. Telling lies is not doing "a very good job of handling the crisis." We do indeed disagree on this, Shar.
Do you ever acknowledge the factual actions trump has made during this crisis or do you just listen to words that have clearly been reported out of context? In the end, words would have provided us no protection against this virus. Zero... Deeds has brought us through it. Do you not realize what is being perpetrated by the media? Look at what has factually been done. All the words can not change Trump's actions. In regards to the testing, it's there all one needs to do is look for where to get one done in one's community. I have four places within a ten-mile radius. If you have a symptom you can receive a test. Each and every day the task force explained how they are testing. At this point, they are gearing up to test many more people, and anyone that feels they have a symptom can get a test. It still appears you don't understand the test kits had to not only be produced, but new tests perfected so they gave accurate results. These test needed to be developed. They are not just laying around ready to use. The scientist needed a strain to work up the kits. This is a brand new virus. The lack of testing kits can be blamed on no one.
Good for you, so why did he say "anyone who wants a test can get one," when the tests weren't already available? When he said this did he know there weren't enough tests for anyone who wanted one?
Keep making excuses for him, but you know he said this and other untrue things a month ago. Was it true when he said it? Or don't you care if the leader of the free world is simply making stuff up? Apparently none of Trump's supporters care if he confuses the issue re the virus.Again I have answered your question. You ignored mine. Do you feel words mean more than deeds, actions taken during this crisis, job performance? I hope to understand your mindset.
No, you haven't answered my question, Shar. Trump's words and actions are what I'm talking about. Obama left Trump a pandemic playbook just for this sort of virus and he ignored it in favor of lying about what was available and and how the virus will simply"disappear."
This is not a time for him to be "guessing" or acting on a "gut feeling." He'd be much better off letting Pence handle it although Trump will have to watch Pence like a hawk lest he say something Trump won't like.
As I asked before, how can you tell when Trump is lying or simply giving an opinion?I can only conclude Trump has some sort of hypnotic effect on some people. Everything he does is perfect. Everything he says is taken out of context or doesn't matter.
He is doing a wonderful.job. Superb. No one could do it better. Just ask him and he will tell you, and 43% of the American people will believe it without question. After all, they only care about the facts.
Actually it was Bush, not Obama that had his Homeland Security put out the Playbook in 2006. It is a lengthy book, so if you can point out where you feel the Trump ignored the book's suggestion please provide an incident and what page I can find it in the book.
In his first statements, he was clearly trying to promote calmness, and any other President saying the same words would have been admired for making an attempt to calm the public. Yes, he does give his opinion too often, and it is clear he does not candy coat anything. Some of us prefer this form of communicating.
he clearly has listened to all on his task force, telling me the respects them and them for their given expertise. He has quickly problem solved any problem that this virus presented. He was available to each and every state that needed federal help or guidance. In my opinion, he did a miraculous job making sure no one was turned away from a hospital or refused a vent when needed. He supplied an abundance of suppliers due to state, as well as the government stockpiles, being ill-equipt. Our stockpile has been replenished. He is now sending some excess vents to other countries,
I can certainly tell when Trump is giving an opinion. How can you call the statement "everything will be OK" as a lie? It was clear the day he said that he truly did not see that such a problem could occur.
Again I have answered your question. You ignored mine. Do you feel words mean more than deeds, actions taken during this crisis, job performance? I hope to understand your mindset.
The playbook in its entirety not a sentence here and there on media article.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resour … tation.pdf
I find it rather sad, in this day and age of instant information, technology, the internet, and the incredibly vast network of information dissemination, that people who have access to all of this can still live under a rock, where painfully ignorant views continue to be held and, worse, espoused. It's a sad commentary on the lack of resourcefulness of those who ought to know better.Yes, it is indeed sad. The most recent pandemic playbook was created in 2016, and I'm pretty sure Bush was out by then.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/2 … cil-149285I was not aware of this book. The CDC still uses Bush Playbook. At any rate, I would be interested in seeing one of the incidence from the playbook that you feel Trump ignored. I am not acquainted with the book. I would think Dr. Fauci would have used the book if it would have found its protocol would have been helpful with the virus crisis. I trust Dr.Fauci is well versed in perhaps both books, and any and all pandemic protacol.
Did you read the article, Shar? It plainly points out what Trump should have done but didn't follow the guidelines set out in the pandemic playbook.
It appears he chose not to follow the Obama Playbook. I can not comment on why the task force chose not to use the suggestions in the guideline playbook. I see the article list a problem with the problem that occurred in regard to ordering PPE. It seems that it was the responsibility of the Office of the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response (ASPR) of the Department of Health and Human Services. It was their responsibility to manage the Strategic National Stockpile since October 1, 2018. Prior to that, the stockpile was managed by the Centers for Disease Control(CDC). It well appears these Government departments dropped the ball.
As Trump discovered the shelves were not sufficiently filled to handle a crisis. Following the guidelines became impossible with a lack of stock inventory. He certainly worked day and night to provide all he could as quickly as he could.Why were the shelves empty, Shar? He's had over three years to restock them. Besides, he got rid of some important people and called it "streamlining." He was also planning to cut the budget for the CDC before the virus became serious.
Yes, anyone but "Honest Don" is to blame. Seen that movie too....too many times.I would agree with it is a president's job to make sure those stockpiles were kept properly. He inherited the stockpile so one can assume we have both presidents at fault. Yes, he was seeing problems at the CDC and it appears he was going to further cut programs. I have laid lots of blame for this mess on the CDC from day one. They work directly with WHO, which totally dropped the ball.
I am not blaming Obama or Trump for the depleted stockpile it is the job and the responsibility of the Office of the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response (ASPR) to keep that stockpile up to pare.
I will say it will be interesting to see if they warned either president of the lack of supplies. If they did not step up to a an administration and report the depleted stockpile, we will then be able to place blame. It would be something I would be interested in knowing.
I thinkRobert Kadlec is the present head of ASPR. He was nominated by Trump and approved by the Senate. It was his job to see the stockpile refilled and up to date. Wonder why over 3 years has passed and he didn't do his job? You'd think the guy who nominated him would have seen to it he fulfilled his duties.
But then, Trump is never to blame for anything.Trump ultimately is responsible for stockpiles during his time in office. It would have also been Obama's job to keep the stockpiles during his tenure. Trump has put the blame on Obama, it seems they are jointly to blame. Trump's personality always gets ahead of him and makes him look foolish. This is a classic case where he played the blame game and has made a fool of himself.
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