This is worth watching. It shows the experience of black conservatives in the United States. It is very powerful. I challenge everyone to click on the link I've provided and watch the movie's trailer.
"The film simply asks: “Why is there no respectful disagreement in the black community? Why are great black thinkers like Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams and Shelby Steele ignored or marginalized by the black and mainstream media?” Despite impressive, decades-long bodies of work — columns, books and speeches — Sowell, Williams and Steele are completely unknown to many Blacks, and not just young Blacks."
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnis … -the-movie
Not exactly an objective appraisal from an advocate of GOP conservatism, the fellow that did the review of the film.
Racism is not the only factor behind problems within the black community, but I am certainly not going to factor it out like it is so convenient for conservatives to want to do.
Thanks for taking the time to review the article. I hope you watched the trailer.
I don't think this documentary deals with racism within the black community. I believe it deals with those who have thoughts independent of many in the black community. My closest friend is a black conservative. I am always shocked and stunned at the things his family and others say and do to him. His only crime is having an independent view of things. He has been called "Uncle Tom" and many other things by other blacks. He's a very successful business person, a purple heart recipient and combat vet. Rather than celebrate his success...he is labeled as a sell-out by members of his family and other blacks.
This is the plight of the black conservative. He once had a white liberal woman knock on his door, because he has a Trump 2020 flag on his house, and lecture him about the struggles to be black in America. I think the woman may have lost her mind. I don't think she realized the poor conditions my friend grew up in.
So, I think what this documentary is about is those who refuse to let their skin color keep them from success and when they do succeed...being called names and labeled by those in their own community...and white liberals.
If anyone takes the time to watch this documentary...I think they'll be impressed.
Hope you had a "capital 4th"
First of all, if I had a person like this conservative in my family, I would not disown him or her but simply avoid conversations regarding politics.
You are right and so is your friend, you can succeed, but as a Black person it's going to be different.
My father, a successful real estate broker with his own business doing moderately well, asked me why when actually meeting people that wanted to sell a house in an affluent area of town (Denver), once the people physically met him, they said that they changed their minds and decided to go with some one else. In a private conversation from the company that got the listing, my father was told that the people were not so much bigots as they simply did not believe that he could sell their house. I told Dad that there was a reason that you did not see Black real estate agents selling Manhattan and obtaining the six figure commissions.
We grew up in a part of town where there were many Jews and they were our allies in many ways. My father failed to learn from the sixties and seventies up through the turn of the century, that being ostentatious, heralding the first black business and all of that, aka, George Jefferson, was actually counterproductive in the long term. His Jewish friends warned him to keep a low profile, let the whites see what is was they were comfortable with in terms of advertising and hiring white agents to reach parts of the city that traditionally blacks could not get listings in. Concentrate on the bottom line, ignore the show and concentrate on the dough that goes to bank at the end of the day. Jews are an educated and masterly people from whom Pop could have learned a lot from. He was never good about learning to put your ego on the shelf, to obtain a more important objective.
That is why so many of our men prefer entertainment and athletic venues as they do not have to conform to white norms of behavior and expectations, which for many is seen as a sell out.
My little brother is a entrepreneur, a successful creator of software products and tools for the health care industry. I told him when the community catches wind of your success, no one needed to know that it was a Black owned business, as he was receiving offers for advertising and TV spots where he could present himself in living color. I told him that it was best to shun these. As far as the world knew, you were just another business sans the ethnic angle. Since most of your customers are white, you need to present them with the warm fuzzies that they could relate to.
My theory is that American whites are for the most part Kens and Karens. What racial problems remain are mostly people unwittingly, some deliberately falling back on patterns of behavior and beliefs that keep it going. It cannot be reached through legislation, but must be part of a determination by people to go against their natural grain. I have known only a handful of whites in my lifetime that were relatively free of those subconscious attitudes. Central Park Karen knew what buttons to push and I think that most of you do whenever the time calls for it. I will believe more of you when more you can swear off "the buttons".
So, yes, the color of your skin should not be an impediment to your success as long as you make allowances for the Ken and Karen syndrome and be prepared to compensate for it as part of your plan.
It is not lie to keep the truth to ones self........
Racism exists for sure, all around, and your Ken and Karen comment is a testament to that. We all are judged by many things when people look at us, but I've tried my entire life to get past those pre-judgement. However, at least you had a father who was a successful real estate broker. That is unlike so many of us of all races whose parents were put in prison for things like marijuana possession. And, I've already said a bit about how the policy and justice system treated me. These are American problems that BLM and the Democrats chose to frame as solely racial problems, damaging race relations, and our nation in the process. Do you really support a party that is backing this type of behavior? https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=vi … ;FORM=VIRE
"We all are judged by many things when people look at us, but I've tried my entire life to get past those pre-judgement."
Amen hard sun. Life's a bitch, and everything isn't about racism. Most of it is just about 'us'—as in personal responsibility. From Cred's story, I think his dad knew that.
"Personal Responsibility" standard conservative buzzword used as a cover for the failings and shortcomings of the search for equality in this society.
How many white owned companies are marketing products to Blacks, for example? Do you not think that their advertising and outreach are ones designed to attract their customers?
But, when I ask my dad to learn to think along the same lines, that is cynical?
While we reside in the same land, we are different people with different cultures and traditions.
This is what I mean by the "Ken and Karen syndrome", these glaring distinctions people make that seem perfectly natural to them but are in fact ones they would consider demeaning if it were applied to them.
""Personal Responsibility" standard conservative buzzword used as a cover for the failings and shortcomings of the search for equality in this society."
If that is your concept of "Personal responsibility," as it applies to some of our society's ills, then I am not going to beat my head against the wall trying to explain why I see it as a very big part of many of our current problems.
*Coincidently, I have been on a Thomas Sowell binge these last few days, and although I should wait a few more days for the giddiness to settle down, (I would describe his thoughts as Porn for the Conservative mind), I will venture that personal responsibility also seems to be a large factor in our current problems to him.
That view is not a credit to you Cred. I would applaud your dad for not having the cynicism of your view.
That perspective certainly doesn't boost your "social warrior against the Righites" credentials.
He should have had the cynicism and he would have done much better in reality.
This Ben and Jerry Ice Cream world so many of you extol in reality does not exist.
There are glaring problems that remain in this culture, GA, and I am not one to sugar coat them.
I have always said that Rightwingers suck, GA, what part of my message to Mike did you miss or obviously misinterpreted?
You are right Cred, we remain an imperfect culture. And you are also right that our imperfections should be addressed, not sugar-coated. But I don't think your prescription of "working the system," (per your Jews example), is addressing the problems you speak of.
And you are mistaken about your Ben & Jerry's example. Their kumbaya message is that of Liberals. My ice cream reality is Baskin-Robbins—a flavor for everyone. ;-)
Yes, you have to work the system, the economic landscape is different for Black entrepreneurs and we have to make assumptions and preparations for the business environment that whites generally do not. A lot of that surrounds less access to capital, as just one reason among others.
We can't play the PC poster boys for a show of "progress" when business survival issues are at stake. You do whatever you have to to get to the bottom line, isn't that what everyone else does?
"You do whatever you have to to get to the bottom line, isn't that what everyone else does?"
Speaking only for myself, I would offer a strong "No," that isn't what everyone else does. I think that only folks that accept a standard of 'the ends justify the means' would feel as you do. I am not one of those folks.
There is a difference in being unethical as what is behind the "end justifies the means" and recognizing that you are in business to make money and you cannot afford to be diverted from that by the irrelevant and counterproductive.
I am going to market my goods and services to those that I have identified as my customers any other attitude constitutes an exercise in futility.
That is not "the ends justify the means" in the manner that you seem to be implying.
My friend once told me "The only color that matters in business is green. You got the green or can help people make the green, nobody looks at your skin because all they really care about is the green."
"Personal Responsibility" is not a conservative buzzword. It is an idea that was promoted by many in the black community including Dr. Martin Luther King. "
"Accepting Responsibility for Your Actions" "Not environment; not heredity; but personal response is the final determining factor in our lives. And herein lies our area of responsibility."
https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/king … ur-actions
awww geez Mike. "My closest friend is a black conservative."
Really? That's your credentials?
I like Larry Elder. I saw the trailer and would like to see his movie.
It is unfortunate that alternative views do not seem to be respected within the black community. I get so tired of hearing conservative black voices being shamefully insulted and called racist names by the left. But, then, I've said for a long time the left is the most racist of all.
I think you simply hit on something that is very obvious but overlooked. How I see it, most black people only want to hear what they want to hear if the opinion does match their own --- they just don't want to hear it. Hate to say this but many have become totally close-minded, even to facts.
I, as a Liberal Black woman, am quite familiar with authors such as Thomas Sowell & Shelby Steele, not so much as Walter Williams. There is also Larry Elder, a noted Black conservative author. I don't really believe that the Black community is unfamiliar w/such authors.
Unfortunately, many Blacks have a strong, dichotomous preview regarding what is liberal & what is conservative although Blacks are known to be conservatives in many instances. There are Blacks who believe in the Democratic paradigm. They blame many of their sociopolitical problems on outside society. They are of the school that the government will &/or should rescue them from whatever socioeconomic malaise is present.. They refuse to contemplate that many of their sociopolitical problems are of THEIR own making.
The conversations here about the middle moving left (involving GA, Wilderness, etc.) helped me to see that there is indeed some truth to America's middle moving left. I always found the middle to be the best ground, but I think the media did have a hand in making me think the left was the middle. I'll look into Sewell as I think I need more balance after the last couple years.
I hope you do check out Thomas Sowell. I think you will find his thoughts grounded and impressive. The man is no slouch, he has decades and decades of experience and credibility.
But let me warn you, he will suck you into a black hole of links. In another comment, I referred to his perspectives as "Porn for the conservative mind."
I was reading an essay, (a week ago), when I came across a link to an interview. After dozens of hours of following other links I am still on his trail.
Here is the link that got me started: Thomas Sowell on the Myths of Economic Inequality
Thanks GA. An educated conservative from a lower economic class background seems exactly what I may need in my political life right now. I watched the first several minutes of this and have it bookmarked. I'll get back with you on his thoughts/work after some more investigation.
Fascinating link. So interesting I had to watch another one after yours. Thanks!
Really enjoyed the link with Thomas Sowell. He is a brilliant man with quite a fascinating history.
Glad you liked it Mike. Brilliant didn't come to mind as a descriptor, but if he is brilliant I think it is in his common sense.
The discussion about the Liberal welfare state and crime is interesting for sure. I've spoke of the link between failing families and crime, as have many others, but linking this to the welfare state is a bit new to me.
Sowell certainly seems to really have an affinity for truth no matter how hard it is to find, or how uncaring that truth may APPEAR to be. I'll add just a little aside that the conversation brought me to think about, if for no other reason than my own. In particular, I see a real problem with the middle class and higher education scholarships. Now, my kids, so far, have done well enough to earn their scholarships. In other words they aren't going on grants based upon income. However, many middle class families, where the parents stay together, get completely screwed when it comes time for the kids to go to college, even for a trade at a community college. The lower income kids go mainly on grants (if they can even skate by with a C average in high school)..many of these kids are lower income because of family problems, parents split, dad doesn't pay support, etc. The families staying together. often make it to the middle class on two incomes. There goes the grants, so the kids gotta have close to a 4.0 to get a full ride ( or be good at a sport.)
I've listened to a few of her videos and her statements before Congress now. I may not agree with everything she says (certainly do with some of it). I definitely think she brings some things to the table that are worth discussing that the Democrats don't want to acknowledge at all.
I so appreciate Candice's views, she is a pure common sense lady that is not afraid to share her thoughts. I give her credit, in my opinion, she represents a better road forward for blacks than BLM.
She has been labeled an "Uncle Tom" as are most successful blacks. Odd how most successful blacks carry the label. Makes one wonder ...
So many of you have been singing the praises of Candice Owens of Blexit. I read an article to see what it is the Right is making all the hoopla about
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mag … ally-mean/
The article is a bit lengthy, so if you would indulge...
She has some interesting points but they are so on par with what most conservative white men generally think, and looking at who she has her romantic tryst with, who is paying her off? What is the basis of her support for Brexit, for example, why...
Her conservatism would be more credible if it did not parrot the Trump standard so closely.
"Her critics are less forgiving. ( which includes yours truly) Carol Anderson, the author of “White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of Our Racial Divide” and professor of African American studies at Emory University, sees Owens functioning as a novelty for the right wing, someone who insulates the Republican Party against charges of racism. “She just appears to be one of a small coterie of black folks circling around Trump,” Anderson says, “trying to put a black face onto white supremacy.”
She, at thirty, is just another "flash in the pan" pop culture idol like Kanye West or that Kardashian lady. It is going to take a great deal more heft to move a mountain where the GOP in current elections cycles never get more than 10 percent of the Black vote, with Black women not giving more than 4 percent. I strongly disagree with viewpoints of Ben Carson, Herman Cain, or Clearance Thomas almost instinctively, but I have to at least respect their experience and accomplishments over that of a relatively inexperienced pop star.
But she has every right to try. Good luck with that
I like Candice, I give her lot's of credit. She walked into a lion's den, and so far she has held her own. She has not been truly accepted by many conservatives, some having the same feelings as "Anderson", that she would be more or less a novelty that would fade after the 2016 election.
She says things many on the left, as well as the right, just don't want to hear. I think she is bright and has a place on the political stage as an activist. No, she will not persuade many blacks to leave the Democratic party, but black people should be proud of her. She is intelligent and articulate, she is unafraid to walk a path not many black people would choose.
The article offers Carol Anderson's opinion, an opinion of a person that is a true liberal. I have added a link with several videos that present Candice speaking on several occasions. Perhaps you will listen to them, and form your own opinion about Candice. She is a woman that will leave her mark. I respect her, she is out there working for changes.
Alright, she is a good speaker but her understanding of concepts that drive the foundation of our current debates are both simplistic and superficial.
The CPAC address in particular.
I think she realizes the concepts of the problems that have affect black communities and does clearly call out what she believes is causing the problems in simplified terms. I think she does get directly to what she feels would help solve some of the problems. She also goes to what she feels is the simple roots of why problems never seem to get solves.
I am glad you took the time just to have a listen to Candice. She is young and may evolve into someone that will be a bit more bending to other's opinions.
For the most part, I think the problems that affect black communities are the same as those that affect so many white communities. I'm not saying they don't diverge at all. However, from what I've heard from Owens, she understands that the black community problems are not entirely unique by any means. Absentee fathers, drug use, etc., are American problems, and we need solutions that recognize this. Instead, all we are getting is race baiting.
Race-baiting certainly is front and center, In my view, it remains a huge problem due to politicians and media driving it home 24/7. This is why we have so much unrest. Owens speaks common sense and tells it as she sees it. And, I agree that much of the problem that plagues underprivileged poor people black and white people start in their homes. Upbringing is so important and can be the root of many problems as one reaches adulthood. The problems that plague the poor seem to be generational, and just follow the children from one generation to another.
I particularly liked one of his thoughts about two-parent families and the development of the welfare state programs.
To paraphrase, and the numbers may not be exact, (going on memory here), but, according to Sowell, in the 1960s, before Johnson's Great Society programs, the Black family single-parent percentage was about 40% and now, after 50 years of welfare programs the Black single-parent percentage is around 70%. *Whites were about 25% and now about 50%
Think about that, the programs designed to help the poor have turned into incentives to double the single-parent households in our nation. They have incentivized reliance on government instead of self.
I would rate that success right up there with Reagan's War on Drugs.
Yet, with this massive failure, minority folks applaud the Democrats for their compassion. Geesh. And to think the hot topic of today is to denounce slavery, all the while supporting a party that is enslaving them to their government.
Can you prove a correlation between "The Great Society Programs" and the increase in single parent Black families? Can we even consider the possibility that Thomas Sowell is incorrect?There has been quite a general change in mores from before the period in question and afterwards. After all, the Master Race certainly have not been insulated from the trend, a group who relative to blacks has enjoyed every advantage. Are they on the Democratic plantation as well?
With their own dismal statistics why are not white families applauding Democrats for their compassion?
There are other reasons Blacks support Democrats that are beyond the simple analysis of free cell phones and Welfare Queens, otherwise you would find a greater Allegiance of whites to the Democratic Party than what is currently there.
Beware of so called conservative Blacks, you are led down the path of the Ken and Karen syndrome.
What do the GOP offer except doubling down on tools of continued inequity and race baiting politics? If the GOP had something to offer, maybe more of those "minorities" might listen.
"Can you prove a correlation between "The Great Society Programs" and the increase in single parent Black families?"
One followed the other - by definition that makes a correlation. Showing causation is another matter, but given that we pay mothers to deny a father that, too, seems pretty obvious. And that holds true whether the "master race" or blacks.
It won't do, Wilderness.
The Great Society Programs, or War on Poverty is neither the sole nor primarily reason for so many single family households. I need a reliable and objective source to support the contrary beyond your mere opinion.
correlation, causation or otherwise........
At this point, I cannot prove a causation claim Cred. But as Wilderness noted, the correlation is a textbook example of a direct line from one to the other. However, I would bet that Sowell could support a claim of causation.
For example; in that discussion, he mentioned the poverty level of our rural Appalacian mountain communities and the question of why our poverty programs haven't changed that.
He went on to explain that he did some research on rural mountain communities worldwide . . . and discovered the same poverty conditions—regardless of the nations involved. Leading him to conclude it was the natural consequence of the situation—not the success or failure of a government program. His point being there was an obvious correlation and causation between the poverty and physical location.
You say I should "beware so called conservative Blacks," and I say you are just denigrating the messenger because you don't like the message. Sounds like you see Sowell as just another Uncle Tom kowtowing to Whitey. Geesh Cred, you should consider the content rather than just the container it came in.
I didn't just take Sowell word as truth because I agreed with what he was saying. I spent hours following links to the facts and evidence' that he said supported his claims—and I found him to be right. You should give that a try too. It might make you a little less quick to criticize a message just because you don't like what it says.
And to your "Ken and Karen syndrome" thought. I think that is just baloney. Why don't you try to support it—relative to this topic of Sowell's claims?
Further, regarding your comment about the GOP's efforts, it seems you are entirely missing or ignoring the point. After 60 years of Democrat-promised solutions, where are the economic successes in your minority's status?
And finally, maybe you too should take a look at Sowell's historical and educational credentials. From a young highschool drop-out Marxist to an acclaimed and degreed economist that became a Conservative through considering the reality of facts and evidence—not ideological leanings and mantras.
Start with his wiki page bud, then take a look at the books he has written providing the evidentury support for his views. I don't mean to come across as a Sowell acolyte—my support is more for the message than the man, but I think his words deserve more than a criticism of "so-called."
"I particularly liked one of his thoughts about two-parent families and the development of the welfare state programs."
I am not attacking Sowell and have religiously read many of his editorials over many years. But that does not mean that he is an all knowing oracle because he says the things that so many of you are so desperate to hear.
Sowell will have to prove causation, does he? Where is it? I say that it factor among many. You lived during the Sixties, you are well aware of the changes in this society from 1965. The Counter culture, Feminism, Civil Rights is just a few. My point is that to make a case for direct causation from LBJ's Program as the reasonfor single parents families needs to be substantiated by more than an affinity for right wing ideas and viewpoints.
I my point was not to debate with you the effectiveness of the LBJ program.
My point is that the GOP have no solutions and have in recent times never attempted to provide any. So, what is the choice, GOP benevolent racism or take a chance continually trying to make the course we are on more effective?
We have Shelby steel, Walter Williams, Ben Carson, such rags to riches, exemplary people, and so is Oprah. But nobody has told me why the net worth of Black families is universally 1 tenth that of white famlies. How is that level of disparity in wealth possible when we all live in the same society? So, I ignore the exceptions and look at the rule. I would be interested in having Mr. Sowell address that one for me?
I have not read him in a while, but in all fairness to you and your position, I will revisit some of his material again.
What is your solution to the problems in the black community? What would stop the extremely high rates of black on black crime? This is the reason there is such a high rate of blacks in prison. What would end the problems with the high rates of one parent households? What do you think needs to happen?
Good question, I will ponder an attempt at a rational reply, directly....
Mike, while this is a little bit off topic, let's start with this
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/black-owne … -pandemic/
This article talks about extreme disparities between the viability of Black owned businesses compared with white owned ones. What is Candice Owens explanation for this vast and consistent disparity? Is it no wonder so many of us are suspicious of the model of Capitalism in this society extolled by Conservatives. Why do we seem to inherently always receive the short end of the stick?
Lack of capital,reserves and acculumutaion of generation of wealth relative to Black families and entities are reasons people choose ignore.
Your question about crime goes to the point of life in underserved areas, after all this is not happening in White communities, why not?
There is a multi millionaire who in investing in Detroit offering job trading for people within the newly automated auto factories, helping to create affordable housing. I don't have all the answers, but if I can bail out Wall Street, I can't understand why we can help Main Street. The principle of the "ghetto" needs to be destroyed at the roots. We can get people off welfare and into job training, have others that receive benefits help with child care while single mothers can train and work. Parents set examples for kids regarding opportunities and possibilities. It could be the start of breaking patterns of behavior. Look at all the money we waste just having people sitting around.
Black men, the young in particular, operate from a state of dispair, with an anti-establishment attitude. I know because I grew up among many of them. The last time a credible solution for urban blight was proposed by the GOP came from Jack Kemp and his idea of urban enterprise zones back in the early 1980's. We need big picture broadbased solutions.
I beat the odds by remembering the Joel Chandler Harris' stories of Brer Fox, Bret Rabbit, etc. the rule being for every advantage someone has, there are corresponding disadvantages that you find and use to your advantage. My Colonel Hogan to their Colonel Klink..... much of that is the foundation behind the martial arts. Racists are basically dumb and insecure, rather than having just a button to push, there are virtually handles to pull to neutralize their effect. My father's required reading for me was "How to Win Friends and Influence People", by Dale Carnegie. I picked up a tip or two there as well. That is what it took to deal with many of you as I would allow no one to short circuit my dreams and aspirations.
Education opportunity and economic adjustments to give a leg up for anyone who wants to move forward would be a beginning, perhaps these "bad boys" may see some viability in participating and competing in our current system. We need to invest in people with a view of changing things as they currently are, and it may not prove as expensive as continuing the present course we are on.
After reading several of your comment in regard to the GOP not offering any solutions to help black people.
"There is a multi millionaire who in investing in Detroit offering job trading for people within the newly automated auto factories, helping to create affordable housing."
"The last time a credible solution for urban blight was proposed by the GOP came from Jack Kemp and his idea of urban enterprise zones back in the early 1980's."
Dan Gilbert the gentleman that has invested in Detroit offering so many opportunities and yes job training is a Republican.
Another guy that came up with opportunities for underprivileged --- Opportunity Zones were created under the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, signed into law by President Donald J. Trump. The first Opportunity
Zones were designated in April 2018.An Opportunity Zone is a designation and investment program created by the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 allowing for certain investments in lower-income areas to have tax advantages
School choice allows public education funds to follow students to the schools or services that best fit their needs—whether that's to a public school, private school, charter school, home school or any other learning environment parents choose for their kids.
Thanks, I will look into it, while I intrinsically distrust Trump, I have to give credit where due.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/trump … vestments/
Based on this, I still remain suspicious and distrustful.
It's obvious to me you always keep an open mind. I respect that you mistrust Trump. Very little is reported on anything of a positive nature. And he can be his own worst enemy at times.
Times are getting worse, we are at a crossroads so to say. We all have to be vigilant about what our Government is doing, and what both parties are offering. We all have different needs, The Dem's at this point want to close the Charter school. Trump hopes to pen Charter schools to all with the school of choice and vouchers.
We need Charter schools they stand to make public schools compete for children, which in the end makes public schools try to keep up standards in teaching, which show up in their learning skills. Why would we want all public schools when it is clear how poorly they presently are educating children. We need to try something new, School of choice may just work out better for children. The Dems are always willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Perhaps it won't work, but we need a solution, our children are being ill-educated in many public schools. Charter schools offer superior educations so do many suburban public schools. It is amazing to see so many public schools have stepped up and supported the concept of a school of choice. Fed money is being sought and competed for by suburban schools which as a rule are already flush with money. These funds provide all kinds of benefits to students, and as I said the inner-city schools will start making sure they do their very best to keep fed funds.
School of choice could offer positive change, a change that could work to decrease systemic racism. You may consider this a small change, I think it's a huge step... let's start making things better for our children. They deserve it. They are the future, they need to move forward not be lept in the bitter past.
Do you feel closing charter schools would be beneficial in any respect?
https://edreform.com/2011/11/just-the-f … ol-choice/
Relative to the Sowell discussion I have discovered another time-eating, and potentially expensive, blackhole—Amazon book listings.
When you click on a book cover you will get to read some fairly lengthy contents of each book.
For instance; his latest book, Charter Schools and Their Enemies gave almost 15 pages of reading.
It was amazing to see several pages dedicated to a description of his very strict criteria for establishing rules determining what comparable data could be used in traditional school vs. Charter school comparisons.
He made sure his evaluations and opinions were formed using truly comparable data and not just data that affirmed his beliefs. Take a look at that one example and see what I mean about being impressed by his credentials.
*Just click on the book image
Charter Schools and Their Enemies
Warren believes charter schools should be subject to the same accountability and transparency as their surrounding traditional public schools, an aide for the candidate clarified, adding that Massachusetts' successful charter schools are a result in no small part from the state's strict charter laws.
Indeed, Massachusetts has one of the highest-performing charter sectors in the entire country and its charter law sets one of the highest bars for accountability and transparency.
For all the attention her proposal drew, it is consistent with her views on charter schools, Warren's aid said. That includes her 2016 vote against a ballot measure that would have raised the cap on charter schools in Massachusetts. At the time, Warren expressed concern about the impact that unfettered growth of charter schools has on school districts and traditional public schools.
"Many charter schools in Massachusetts are producing extraordinary results for our students, and we should celebrate the hard work of those teachers and spread what's working to other schools," Warren said in 2016 as she voted to oppose the ballot measure. "But after hearing more from both sides, I am very concerned about what this specific proposal means for hundreds of thousands of children across our Commonwealth, especially those living in districts with tight budgets where every dime matters. Education is about creating opportunity for all our children, not about leaving many behind."
Going forward, Warren's aide said, she is supporting the NAACP's recommendations, which suggest that school districts – rather than states – serve as charter organizers and that they be allowed to reject charter applications that do not meet the transparency and accountability guidelines that traditional public schools do, consider the strain on district resources caused by charter schools and establish policies regarding the oversight of charter schools.
Those who have been studying the influence of money on education policy and politics and the changing attitudes on the most contentious education policies, like charter schools, weren't as surprised by Warren's proposal, chalking it up to the constant teetering of the public discourse over what has long been one of the most divisive issues in K-12 education.
liz Warren position on this matter is pretty much my own.
While Sowell speaks of certain advantages of Charter Schools, will all kids have access to them? I don' t want to use tax payers money to subsidize Wentworth Academies, where the privilege few increase their educational resources and advantages at the expense of people of modest means.
Wentworth Academies? Is that how you see Charter schools?
Speaking from the illustration of the New York charter schools, student enrollment is by lottery—not by the privilege of money.
As for state funding; it is based on per-student rates, whether in charter schools or traditional public schools. So your logic, (and Warren's) seems to be that students must suffer inferior educational opportunities because those inferior institutions need the money to remain alive. Isn't that backward? Aren't the schools supposed to be for the students instead of the students being for the schools?
Using the data from Sowell's New York study, how can you justify your position that tax money should be spent to save an inferior system instead of supporting a successful one?
Is it that a lot of mediocre, (or worse), is better than a lesser amount of good?
Yet, with this massive failure, minority folks applaud the Democrats for their compassion. Geesh. And to think the hot topic of today is to denounce slavery, all the while supporting a party that is enslaving them to their government.
A rather simplistic view of a problem, topped with a ridiculous partisan claim. Quite a telling slip.
Yes, it is a simplistic view Island Mom. The subject is a complicated one. But, even complicated things can be viewed as a product of basics, and one basic feature of this issue is a view of the achievements of the efforts to deal with it.
As for the "partisan claim" thought, although it is the anti-Democrat mantra of the Republicans, I didn't offer it because it is a Republican or an anti-Democrat claim. I offered it because it seems to be the truth. So the only "telling slip" is yours—the assumption that my motive was partisan.
As mentioned to Credence2, I am open to being proven wrong. So have at it. Where is Sowell wrong? Where is the statistical proof that minorities, (specifically Blacks), have benefitted more than they have been hurt by these past 60 years of welfare programs?
I remember reading Harriet Beecher's "Uncle Toms Cabin" while in school. Its an anti slavery concept novel but I wonder how things have changed or not. I recollect reading an interview by that great western star of Hollywood John Wayne in Playboy. He said tell me where in the world does an African -American have a better life than in America........ Just food for thought.
John Wayne had what may have been considered racist views.
Would White Americans (John Wayne) apply the same yardstick regarding "a better life in America" to themselves as they are so quick to have me use? Should I have a reason to expect any less a quality of life here than whites?
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