This was during Trump's speech accepting the nomination.
Why isn't everyone wearing a mask? Why aren't they sitting six feet apart? How could this be allowed to happen? Why is mask wearing still being shunned and politicized?
Isn't the point of this to send the message that everything is normal? The virus has disappeared? Don't worry? These people are strong? Mask wearers are weak?
In other words, to have people wearing masks would acknowledge that the virus is still a problem that hasn't been solved.
To me, this is just so disappointing and shocking.
I saw what you saw in regards to masks, and it is evident that CNN and MSNBC talked about nothing else late-night and continue on that subject today. They were upset about the Whitehouse being used as a place for the president as well as the Frist lady to provide their speeches from. They were accusing him of "possibly using taxpayers funds. The RNC came out immediately and corrected that misconception.
I think as you do the audience should have been wearing masks and be distanced. We are all taking precautions, and I wish this audience had.
However, the media has every right to point that mitigations were not kept, but why make it the number one story over and above all some of the very real stories Americans provide at the Convention last night.
I saw and learned a lot last night as I did nightly from my fellow America's, and their personal opinions in regard to Trump. I learned a lot of what he has done was never reported, I learned he provided some "everyday citizens comfort and solutions to some very big life problems.
The media has represented him as uncaring, and that he has not a bit of empathy. I have learned he has an abundance of empathy and he shows it sometimes not in his deminer, but with solid deeds.
I hope you saw just a bit of what I saw. He touched many lives in these past few years, as he should.
Finally --- Sorry for going off the subject, because the subject is very valid and important, and I stand with you, these people should have had masks on and distanced. And, I know I am a Republican and you are presumably a Democrat. I hope we can share our opinions without any animosity. Because none was meant.
Trump wants things to be as they were. They all complied. They all believe in herd immunity as I do.
It's just an invisible-to-human-eye microbe which is one of hundreds our immune systems deals with every single second.
A case is not a case. A case is when you get symptoms.
A positive test result with no manifestation of symptoms is evidence the body is dealing with the virus just fine.
When the body gets weak, that microbe and many others may flourish.
suggestions for staying healthy and happy:
do not over eat.
do not poison your body with unhealthy substances
get plenty of sleep
keep away from those with bad health habits
keep your body and house clean
take showers often
wash your hands often
love your pets and all children in your life
have compassion for all people
follow the golden rule
avoid "stinkin' thinkin'" and all negitive thoughts
be grateful for every new day
tend to reality
do not pretend to illusion,
unless you are a positively creative artist, musician or scientist, etc.
pursue your bliss on the physical plane
take off your shoes and throw a frisbee
take off the mask whenever and wherever you can
Scientifically you are correct the human immune system does recognize any foreign body, and will make every attempt to do battle with it. And yes the cases where a person is nonsymptomatic indicate their personal immune system has the ability to attack a virus, so they in many cases have no problem with the virus, but they carry it for a given time and can pass it on.
WHO --- "While the range of symptoms for the two viruses is similar, the fraction with severe disease appears to be different.
For COVID-19, data to date suggest that 80% of infections are mild or asymptomatic, 15% are severe infection,
requiring oxygen and 5% are critical infections, requiring ventilation. These fractions of severe and critical infection
would be higher than what is observed for influenza infection."
When one considers these numbers (80%) are asymptomatic or mildly ill can lead one to speculate a large number has gone uncounted, and yes we may have a herd here in the US. The only way to prove this would be our public to get antibody tests. Which is a simple lab draw. The death toll is indicating although cases are being detected, the virus is causing less death.
https://www.who.int/docs/default-source … ntilation.
Many do hope that the herd method will work to curb the virus until a vaccine is found. Hopefully, with what has been done in the way of mitigations and the slowly developing a herd we will soon be rid of the virus.
I will not take the vaccine. I will stay healthy. If I die, I die. If I get sick with the virus, I would be very interested to see what it takes to fight it off. I know my body to be very good at fighting off viruses, and I help it through managing my bowels.
Viruses thrive in stopped up plumbing. That's why children are not as prone to develop symptoms/get sick with this and other viruses. They have fresh new plumbing systems. Also, children's bodies are learning with each newly introduced virus how to fight it off.
I have heard every time you get sick and your body fights off rapidly multiplying microbes, the body will forever afterwards recognize and know how to fight off those particular microbes. The body does produce antibodies which typically remain within the system long term.
Doctors are finding that this virus affects different people in different ways and severities. For instance, it has been written that people with type O blood are not as susceptible, but if they do get it and recover, the antibodies do not stay with the person as long as they do in people of types A, B, or AB. Therefore they question if the people with type O retain an immunity.
My husband and I, both with type O blood, became ill in February after possibly being exposed to the virus at the VA hospital in Little Rock. We were treated for flu and I tested Flu Negative. In May I was tested for antibodies and tested negative. In our two cases, nobody knows for sure what we had and we will never know. We were hoping we had had Covid and had an immunity. I'm sure there are people like us out there. So with people who are type O, a herd immunity may be impossible. Nobody knows for sure at this point.
I think those who would defend not wearing a mask because of herd immunity should be tossed in jail for endangering the public health. It demonstrates mathematical illiteracy.
I stay the farthest away form people with grimey, breath saturated masks stuck to their faces.
Toss THEM In Jail!
To deny masks are effective at this point is actual insanity. To not wear one in a crowd to make a statement is also insanity. I think this is why so many people quit the forums. Herd immunity is simple math that would require tens of millions of people to get the virus and would result in an exponential increase in the number of deaths. If you can't even agree with somebody that 2+2=4, it's pretty hard to argue anything else.
Researchers find first US case of COVID-19 reinfection
Researchers have documented what appears to be the first U.S. instance of someone getting reinfected with COVID-19.
In a preprint of a paper submitted to the journal The Lancet, researchers said a 25-year-old man in Nevada was reinfected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus in late May, after recovering from a relatively mild case the month before.
Infectious disease experts said reinfections are normal and should be expected, and caution against drawing broad conclusions.
Reports of reinfections this week have come from Hong Kong, the Netherlands, Belgium and now the U.S.
The patient in Nevada initially tested positive for coronavirus in April, after exhibiting symptoms including a sore throat, cough, headache, nausea and diarrhea.
The patient eventually reported having no more symptoms, and subsequently tested negative twice.
But 48 days later, he started exhibiting symptoms again, with a much more severe case. He was hospitalized and required oxygen.
The researchers sequenced the RNA from both virus samples, and found they were two different strains, making it a true reinfection.
It's unclear why the patient was reinfected, and there's still not a lot of evidence about immune response in people who have been infected with the virus.
"Can a person get reinfected from the coronavirus disease?"
Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 has not yet been definitively confirmed in any recovered persons to date. If, and if so when, persons can be reinfected with SARS-CoV-2 remains unknown and is a subject of investigation.Aug 16, 2020"
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc … stigation.
The science of virus does show if a virus mutates which COVID has, one can be in danger of catching the new strain. Hence why we frequently update vaccines due to mutations. Virus shift and drift into a sometimes more virulent virus or less virulent virus, and they mutate frequently. Some viruses do to mutations make it likely to reinfect. For this reason, Vaccines are updated almost yearly due to reinfection problems. I would think COVID19 will be like other viruses and mutate frequently needing its vaccine to be tweaked from many years to come.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 … covid.html
Next time you have a surgery, make sure to let your surgeon and his team know that you are opposed to masks.
I'm talking about people who wear the same mask over and over and don't even wash them. Like they live in them. Like sales people at various stores which I will not mention ... but maybe I should.
You would be doing us a favor if you would mention them. I have a feeling I know at least one of them.
prolly those stores open since the beginning days. Those masks are part of their faces. I think I should paint a picture of the person's face, since I could actually do that. Maybe make it out of canvas. Or make a Mona Lisa smile mask. Could they breathe? Surely we are adapting to less oxygen.
We don't have a Costco in Arkansas, so I was thinking of Wallyworld.
"I think those who would defend not wearing a mask because of herd immunity should be tossed in jail for endangering the public health."
Unfortunately you would be tossing a lot of researchers from the Mayo Clinic in jail. Are you more knowledgeable than they on the subject? Luckily, at this time, researchers can't be put in jail for having their own views of things.
"Curious as to whether herd immunity against the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) might slow the spread of the disease? Understand how herd immunity works and what experts are saying about its potential impact on the COVID-19 pandemic."
https://www.mayoclinic.org/herd-immunit … t-20486808
Thanks. I know how herd immunity works. Definitely important when a vaccine is developed. Otherwise, you know, math, and the slight problem that scientists don't yet know if getting COVID prevents reinfection. This point is made in the article.
It's unbelievable to me that so many people still want to argue about masks. And then the people who don't want to wear masks won't want to take the vaccine either (at least some).
For the record, I won't take the vaccine.
I know that where I live there is such double standards and hypocrisy when it comes to wearing masks. You have to wear masks at work, unless you work for the state government, because it is too difficult for them to do their job while wearing a mask. Masks are mandatory at public gatherings, unless you are having a huge car show in the county where the governor has a family business, then it's optional. I get angry because the mandate to wear masks is based upon if it will benefit the local government or if they want to put a show on for the media. It is so much of...YOU wear a mask, but I'm a government official, I'm too important to wear a mask at gatherings. You can't meet in your church, BUT a car show attracting thousands is okay. Leaders lead by example, I've seen too many politicians in my life playing the "Do as I say and not as I do" game with masks, social gatherings, etc.
I think that people advocating for masks and other mitigations, especially those that are an abrogation of our civil liberties, should suffer the customary punishment of collaborators: They should have their heads shaved and be loaded onto flatbed trailers and driven around town so people can throw filth at them. I consider this a mild and merciful punishment--mere public shaming.
Those authorities who have ordered masks and other mitigations need to do some prison time, at a minimum. They are traitors to our Constitution and to the people of our nation. And those who, like Cuomo, have forced the placement of infected people in nursing homes need to be prosecuted for murder.
Would you put those same punishments on those that require any other measures to prevent the spread of disease in populated areas?
Things like forbidding the use of a private septic system in subdivisions, or deny the right to defecate on public sidewalks or streets? Those that require vaccinations of children going to public school? Those that wrote laws forbidding private trash dumps? CPS will remove children from filthy homes; will you punish them the people that came up with that?
Or is only those that are dealing with the spread of a single, specific disease that is killing hundreds of thousands of people?
Don't know exactly what you are trying to get at here. Defecating on the streets? Removing children from filthy homes? How are all those things connected?
One group here is aghast that a gathering of people sat together, calmly, politely, respectfully... but they didn't wear their masks.
This same group is fine with thousands of "protestors" marching or sitting together... with no masks.
This group is fine with the months of rioting, lootings, assaults, burning buildings and murders, but not peaceful people sitting without masks.
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
All of those things I mentioned are efforts to prevent the spread of the disease, just as masks and social distancing are. Thus the question: is it just the COVID virus that doesn't need controlled? Is it different somehow from other diseases in a way that indicates it doesn't matter if people die from COVID but it's OK from other diseases?
What makes you think that those that are "aghast that a gathering of people sat together, calmly, politely, respectfully... but they didn't wear their masks." don't care about other large gatherings that do not wear masks, such as protesters? Are you just assuming that, or are you assuming that the rioters are the same group?
One group here is aghast that a gathering of people sat together, calmly, politely, respectfully... but they didn't wear their masks.
This same group is fine with thousands of "protestors" marching or sitting together... with no masks.
Who says that we are "fine" with either scenario, Ken?
Sitting next to each other in a confined space with no attempt to Social distance obviously is more dangerous than being in an environment where you can, is it not?
I wouldn't call being outdoors a confined space.
Either it is an issue, and when in groups of people you must wear it, or its no big deal and should be optional.
Biden has promised to fix it, he will make it illegal to be out in public anywhere without a mask. So no worries, it will be over soon, after the election, the Democrats will determine the election was rigged, declare Biden POTUS, and Biden in turn will order the military to oust Trump.
Hasn't Trump already said the election is rigged? Didn't he say the last one was rigged even though he won?
Shouldn't we require masks so that we can get rid of the virus and get back to normal?
I think we have had a horrible over-reaction.
Past the first month of lock-down, allowing the medical/hospital industry to better prepare, we have had a massive over-reaction... much politicized.
Just today the CDC Updated its COVID Stats, 6% Died Of COVID Alone, 94% Had Comorbidity.
6% of those who died, died of Covid alone.
The rest had other complications, such as motorcycle accident or falling down stairs (you can find the truth of these stories by searching yourself).
And I'm sure if we didn't have idiots like Gov. Cuomo of NY who ordered people sick with Covid be placed in Nursing Homes, I am sure the number who died would be thousands less.
AP count: Over 4,500 virus patients sent to NY nursing homes
More misleading lies. And this specific claim was a Tweet, retweeted by President Trump, originally made by a QAnon supporter. So nice going there. The tweet was taken down for being false. Just pure garbage.
If we allow QAnon to deliver our news, our country is done.
Question, Crank, how much of that was in the tweet? Now Trump has started publicly lauding QAnon. Maybe we are doomed already.
The intent of the tweet was to establish that only 6% of the total of 180,000 had really died from Coronavirus. Thus, it was promoting Coronavirus as a hoax that's only killed less than 10k. Now, quickly, we see the same tweet being promoted in the forums.
QAnon isn't just some fringe conspiracy group. It's pretty mainstream Republican now, especially given that the President regularly pushes their insanity.
Your nonsensical commitment to linking everything to this QAnon is getting old.
The CDC released a new report stating 94% of people who died from COVID-19 since February had contributing health problems.
https://theduran.com/new-cdc-report-say … vid-alone/
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi … EsoVV2Qs1Q
The point of the post wasn't to discuss comorbidities, it was to say that only a few thousand had really died from COVID and that the numbers were all a hoax.
https://nypost.com/2020/08/31/twitter-r … -by-trump/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2 … 5e98813178
The tweet he reposted was from Mel Q - and yes, the "Q" stands for QAnon. Call me nonsensical all you want. Here's what QAnon is once again:
a far-right conspiracy theory that claims among other things that a network of Satan-worshiping pedophiles is running a global child sex-trafficking ring and supposedly engaged in a “secret war” versus U.S. President Donald J. Trump
qanon? what sort of nonsense is this? Not one iota of proof to support their ludicrous claims. Look how quickly it is being absorbed within ever growing segments of the Rightwing community as a sponge.
The fact that the people that died had comorbidities may well not have died at all if proper precautions had been taken regarding the threat of the Pandemic from the beginning. So, the Right is saying that "they" were all old anyway and would have died of something else, as an excuse.
"The fact that the people that died had comorbidities may well not have died at all if proper precautions had been taken regarding the threat of the Pandemic from the beginning. So, the Right is saying that "they" were all old anyway and would have died of something else, as an excuse."
Well damn! A sensible point from a Leftie progressive, what the hell is this world coming to? ;-)
But . . . even though I think your point is valid, I still think the lethality of Covid-19 should be spoken about in less general terms. If it were, then the precautions we should take would be much different from those addressed to one-size-fits-all solutions—aka total lockdowns.
Well damn! A sensible point from a Leftie progressive, what the hell is this world coming to? ;-)
Yeah, just like I am discovering that "rightwing" and "reasonable" are not necessarily mutually exclusive terms.
I certainly can't say that I disagree with your second paragraph......
It is total stupidity, but it is something it seems Crank spends a lot of time delving into. And accusing me of being.
Almost as bad as you calling me a Right winger all the time. But that's OK, I do egg you on quite a bit. Because with you I realize that if race wasn't the pillar focal point for your perspective I believe we would see the world similarly indeed.
Its a shame we grew up in a country that rather than working to inoculate us, and future generations, from such racial divide, instead works so hard to constantly shove it down our throats.
Its not easy to put forth one's message or intent clearly... when everyone else wants to drag it into labels like "Trumpster", "Progressive", "Right Winger" etc... yes I get caught up in labeling to at times, I can be dragged into the mud on my bad days.
I came across something, someone really, that expressed how I view what is going on pretty damned close to the bullseye.
So please, take the time to watch these two short videos. Just try to take the points made without labeling qanon or racist or whatever.
This video from 6:20 on... not the whole thing.
And this video from 3:45 on.
The big picture my friend, the real picture. Squabbling with one another, while we are all losing the game of monopoly.
Then we should talk about ideas and not politics.
QAnon pushes the deep state. QAnon pushes a satanic pedophile ring. President Trump promotes QAnon theories and lauds their supporters. These are simple facts.
Ken, you're way too smart to be QAnon, so stop repeating their theories.
But again, that last sentence is right on. We're all losing. So why are we arguing about politics when we should be discussing ideas? This, actually, is my biggest frustration with the Democratic Party. They no longer promote or articulate any ideas. They just know what they aren't.
I come up with my own opinions and conjectures without ever watching QAnon or Fox News (I do watch some clips of Fox news on Youtube on occasion, even CNN once in a blue moon).
I read the WSJ, I watch independent sources of information, like Timcast, Blaze, Economist, etc.
That is about it.
So if I come to my own conclusions that there is a push to normalize pedophelia in the country, it is my own observations.
This comes from me noting how they are sexualizing children in our country today, how they are changing laws so that it lessens the criminality for having sex with a minor in some States (like CA), and because people like Epstein are being exposed.
Perhaps this QAnon is so over the top conspiratory, so that it makes anyone who brings these issues up seem less credible?
Much like calling a person a racist, or a right wing extremist, cancels the message of the person... cancel culture. When you don't like the message, disparage the messenger.
Cancel culture, or labeling a person is one thing, but when they censor the President, that's a pretty big sign to me, that corporations have more control/authority than the government.
And if corporations have control of our politicians, and can censor any office, even the Presidency... then the Constitution, and the freedoms and liberties it is supposed to guarantee, is being circumvented.
Ken, I have tried to be careful with labels but in the understanding of what it is that determines a definition for right and left in American society, you leave no doubt which blocks are to remain unmarked. But with Trump supporters latching on to this QAnon, I have to wonder who they actually are, really?
After considerable communication between us, Ken, even if race were taken of the table we would still be different. I lean left and liberal in virtually every inclination, do you?
I tend to be less nationalistic and don't mind being No. 3 or 4, as long as I am politically free and can live life with a reasonable degree of comfort. I am not afraid of big government because with over 320 million people here, it is a big country. With the Constitution as our guide and people continuing to have the right to choose who shall govern them, all is well. There are areas of the economy that require more regulation and enforcement activity rather than less.
I haven't seen the second video, but saw the first one. It made a good case regarding the shooting death of the man in Atlanta. A good case was made in this instance formthe use of lethal force by the law officer. The problem is that there are too many incidents where there was not a good case.
The game of monopoly is rigged and skewed to the advantage of some over others. I want the playing field level, even if we have to call foul and time out. As far as many of us are concerned, we have been slated to lose the game before it even begins.
As always, it is never personal. But is about Republicans and their platform and values. Even if Trump were not the abrasive standard bearer that he is, I could not support the beliefs of that party as being so much in conflict with my own, regardless of who is at the helm.
I will check out the second video, later.
Unfortunately you focused on that incident, that was why I asked that you begin at the 6:20 mark.
My focus, the point I was trying to get across had nothing to do with that incident, or those like it. But what information she presented after 6:20.
There in lies the problem, if you are only #3 or 4... who is #1 & 2... what if China is the super power of the world?
Are the stories of "re-education camps" and organ harvesting true?
Are the stories of the extreme racism true?
Does big government that answers to the corporations and banks, and not the people, make for bad government?
Did we not see that with NAFTA, Glass-Steagall, Crisis bailouts and the ACA?
Those efforts were not in the best interests of Americans, those efforts were in the best interests of the corporations and banks.
But of course the politicians and a complicit media sold them as helpful and good to the American people, even as out industry was gutted and our insurance costs skyrocketed.
---- ----- -----
I don't belong to a set party or political "faith".
I believe in trying to do the best thing for all people, regardless of race.
I try to be wise, realizing that other country's have their own best interests in mind, and many have no qualms with bringing suffering to other nations/people in the process. I realize America is no Saint when it comes to our own history, but I also realize being on the receiving end of hostile intentions would be a lot worse for all Americans.
The rest... well, I did ask you to watch those videos for a reason.
Yes, I have seen the second video and it contains reasonable assumptions. The wealthy are taking advantage but haven't they always?
I will put it to you this way
"Does big government that answers to the corporations and banks, and not the people, make for bad government?"
Instead of shrinking big government let's control the corrupting influences within the government that we already have.
There are only two candidates from either party that both talks and walks in regards to this approach, Liz Warren and Bernie Sanders. Both of whom I trust implicitely.
After seeing the video, we know where the problem is but neither Trump nor his Republicans has ever seriously address it, on the contrary they foment the problem and exacerbate it, enhancing the power of corporate lobbying and looking the other way regarding the excesses of Wall Street, the finance industry and the 1 percent.
So, because those two firebrands were not selected as the nominees a lot of enthusiasm in regards to the coming election for me is lost. But, one thing is for certain, these people will have a lot more say and be in a better position to promote their ideas within a Biden Administration over that which is run by Donald Trump.
In these times, as I say, these two are the only ones that seriously want to get to the root of the problems, the rest just provide lipservice or are the very antipathy of such ideas.
"I believe in trying to do the best thing for all people, regardless of race"
I have been hearing stuff like this all my life. There still seems to be too many people that think and behave otherwise, thus the position we all find ourselves in. When many people become serious about "walking the talk" perhaps more progress toward understanding between us becomes possible.
As for who is the reigning superpower, that has changed over the decades and centuries of time. I will be the first to holler if China step on my toes
I agree... true enough.
And this is where we split.
As you said before, you are willing to settle for crumbs.
And as I have said before, the Democratic Party has been outdoing the Republicans for the last 30 years in sucking up to Corporations, Wall St. and Banking, while also selling out the American people for China's interests.
If you just look at their actions, never mind the rhetoric, what they have actually done, what they allowed, they have been even worse than the Republicans.
AND THAT WILL NOT CHANGE IF BIDEN WINS.
Biden represents the corrupt corporate greed, like Clinton and Pelosi, selling out America's interests and allowing the Chinese to drain America of wealth, industrial might, and intellectual property. The Bidens and the Clintons have taken billions from China, going all the way back to Bill Clinton's first Presidential election.
They need to be defeated, their power in the Democratic Party must be destroyed, only then can the Democratic Party HOPE to become a vehicle for positive change for Americans, working Americans, Americans in Poverty... because right now, they are nothing but lies and manipulation, the people in control of the Democrats are lying to the people in their own party wanting to make change, as well as to the voters.
They want power and control, once they have rid themselves of Trump it will all go back to the way things were, screwing ALL Americans, and not having any real voice.
Trump is the tool for the change you want... you just don't see it.
The Pendulum needs to swing. But first the Establishment, the corruption that has control of the Dems must be broken. The Democrats must become a voice for the workers and for the under-privileged... not sellouts to the Corporations and Banks.
"After seeing the video, we know where the problem is but neither Trump nor his Republicans has ever seriously address it, on the contrary they foment the problem and exacerbate it, enhancing the power of corporate lobbying and looking the other way regarding the excesses of Wall Street, the finance industry and the 1 percent,
You said that you agree with this assessment, so why should I support THEM?
I will settle for crumbs over nothing as you acknowledged before, Trump and the Republicans offer nothing.
Warren and Sanders' actions have been true to form, so I support them and, they are Democrats.
There a few Democrats willing to attack the issue head on, and as you, yourself admitted, neither Trump nor Republicans have never consider the issue a problem.
Most of them all, regardless of party, have been complicit. But what ray of hope there Is is not coming from the Trump side of the divide. What else is there to see?
This is where we split, from my perspective, the Republicans are always worse in this regard and Trump is every bit one of them regarding the differences that are most crucial.
Warren and Sanders do not control the party, they don't even have a seat at the table.
They are tolerated by those that have the true power in the party, so that they can convince people like you to vote for the party... to accept your crumbs.
For the first time in over 30 years, someone has broken through the chosen of the establishment. Ever since Bush Sr's New World Order speech, there has been no real difference between Democrat or Republican.
The repeal of Glass Stegall, on Clinton's watch, the creation of NAFTA, on Clinton's watch, this is when it all began in earnest, this is where it didn't matter who had control of what... Republicans or Democrats... they kept America marching down the same road.
Trump seems to truly have been a Monkey Wrench thrown into their smoothly running machine.
But for there to be real change in the Democrats, they must first suffer another defeat... and if nothing else... old age will then wash away Pelosi, Clinton, Biden, and others of the corrupt old-guard.
There have been. And what does the Democratic Party do to those voices?
What did they do to Tulsi Gabbard?
They wheeled out Clinton, and began a slander campaign against Gabbard, bringing the same sorry Russian conspirator charges against her that they desperately tried to pin on Trump.
You are never going to see real economic change and opportunity the likes of which you are looking for, so long as you continue to support the people who have control and power over the Democratic Party today.
You will never "Fix" the Democrats until you force that change, and that change will never come if you keep them in power... Clinton, Biden, Pelosi and those who directly support them are even worse than Trump. And they have been there in DC for far, far longer.
Putting aside for a second that it's a fact that Paul Manafort met with a Russian intelligence officer and undoubtedly fed him tons of information (something I think would bother you), I completely agree with all this.
And all my liberal friends agree with it.
In fact, many of us discuss the distinct possibility that Trump winning another term would actually be better for the Democrats than Biden winning because maybe it would motivate the DNC to give us real candidates with real ideas who want to change things.
And you're completely right. The DNC has given us Clinton and Biden. There could not be a bigger slap in the face to progressive ideas than this. Neither is a change candidate. Both are, "let's pander to the largest number of people possible" candidates.
Sorry, Crank, another 4 years of Donald Trump just may signify the end of the "American experiment". It is not anything that I want to contemplate in my worse nightmare scenario.
They all "pander", but the recipients of some pandering are more dangerous and problematic than others.
The thing is that the lesson should have been learned in 2016. Perhaps, Warren and Sanders can be appointed to Cabinet posts where they cannot be ignored and they are in a position to make a difference. There is not a scantilla of a possibility of any of that with more of Trump and the Republicans. What can I expect from a Trump win, a double down of all the mayhem of the last 4 years?
Ken is batting around a basic concept I agree with: how is the Democratic Party going to change so that it serves the people?
Is that going to happen by electing party hacks? Is it going to happen by pushing centrist candidates?
Why aren't the Democrats talking about ideas? Why are they simply doing electoral math trying to corral the right types of people?
Trump doesn't have a decent idea in his head about anything. He's a moron. However, the Democrats aren't offering up anything. They aren't leading. Progressive notions are given lip service and then tossed aside.
Maybe if Trump takes this country into total disaster, the Democrats will finally realize the corruption of their intellectual leadership. They're afraid to offer the American people real leadership and real ideas. Maybe if Roe v Wade is overturned, Democrats will wake up.
Just saying that Ken's basis thesis isn't so far from my own.
"Maybe if Trump takes this country into total disaster, the Democrats will finally realize the corruption of their intellectual leadership. They're afraid to offer the American people real leadership and real ideas. Maybe if Roe v Wade is overturned, Democrats will wake up."
I am afraid that we would not survive in the meantime......
The problem is that both political parties are ultimately controlled by the same nefarious sources. The Bloomberg types and their advocates wouldn't have it any other way. The amount of energy needed to Challenge this aspect of the "system" is horrendous.
I agree with Ken and your assessment of the problem, but we part ways regarding the solution.
I don't know if what I'm suggesting is the solution or even correct. I'm just saying that I've certainly been thinking about it.
I think that another four years of Trump has the serious possibility of ending America as we know it. He's authoritarian and seems to prefer totalitarianism to democracy.
If I were a conservative, I would be very concerned about what a Trump on
the left looks like and how far away we are from such a leader. Biden is a centrist. Can you imagine what the Democratic Trump looks like?
Actions speak louder than accusations.
I go by what he has done (IE - no new wars) not by what others say he will do.
The likes of the Clintons, Bidens, Kerry, Pelosi, and others who are or were in DC for over 3 decades.
(Bush family as well, but they are Republicans, which is another matter).
If you want change, you need new faces and new ideas.
Restoring that group back into total control of DC is the exact opposite of positive change.
And that is what a Biden, Pelosi, Schumer DC would be, total control restored to the worst most corrupt elements.
This is welcomed news. Voting for Trump should be the best opinion.
Did you also know that Manafort has ties to the Clintons?
John and Tony Podesta, Paul Manafort and Hillary Clinton were in deep collusion, with the Podesta Group, and also Uranium One.
The vehicle through which Paul Manafort worked for the Russians was a shell group called the European Centre for a Modern Ukraine.
Uranium One is about the Russian-owned company which controls 20 percent of U.S. uranium production capacity, and whose board members gave more than $100 million dollars to the Clinton Foundation.
Manafort was part of that deal, in fact Russian money Manafort funneled to the Podesta Group greatly exceeds the roughly $1 million they were officially paid.
The interesting things to consider when digging through all this, is what exactly caused Manafort to join Trump?
Did Manafort have a fallout with Podesta and the Clintons, was he aiding the Clintons and trying to sabotage Trump. Or is it something else entirely?
Correct, they are there to do the bidding of the Corporations and Banks, they are more corrupt than Trump.
The fact that they have been in DC at the pinnacles of power for over 30 years should be proof enough of this to any rational and intelligent individual.
If you want a Democratic Party that represents real change, they need to be swept out of power.
Electing Biden only restores them to power, and diminishes all hope of true change occurring in the Party.
Let ALL America people hear this always. And if Trump has really crossed into the bad lane, the BEST opinion or thing to do is vote for Trumpgage! Save America FIRST
It was from the CDC...!
His tweet was taken down because we have political hacks controlling what is allowed and what isn't on Twitter. Censorship... of the President!
Why are they censoring him?
For telling the truth!
Of the 160,000 people who died... 130,000 were over 60 years old and had other existing complications!
Of the people who died from Covid alone... less than 10,000!
We destroyed our economy... half the country is still in some form of lockdown... for a virus only the elderly and those with poor health are likely to die from!
And we had an idiot governor (Cuomo in NY) put 4,500 sick people in Nursing Homes with those most vulnerable to it.
Thankfully people are being told the truth by many different sources, if they were stuck relying on the lies of CNN and their ilk, this country would be lost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i7Ynj8V33g
Wilderness, the public health measures you mention (forbidding private septic systems in subdivisions, street shitting, private trash dumps) involve the broad and total abrogation of civil liberties of the entire population, the imprisonment without due process of entire populations, or the taking of private property without due process.
The measures you mention are cases in which an individual, in contravention or defiance of actual LAWS (that is, laws that were instituted through the legislative process by elected representatives), may be fined or otherwise punished if proven guilty in a court of law, upon the completion of due process, of having committed such an act. None of the above apply to the public health measures taken against covid. They are edicts issued without legislative process—and often issued by people who are not even elected representatives, such as health departments. The public health measures you mention are measures that appear in city and state ordinances passed into law through the legislative process. They enjoy the consent of the governed through legislation enacted by the representatives of the people.
Secondly, a private individual so charged with contravention or defiance of said law, must be proved in a court of law to actually have committed this act. The court must show that he did indeed shit on the street or maintain a public nuisance in the form of a private septic system. With covid measures, no proof is required that the individual whose rights have been abrogated is guilty of anything, nor has he been so convicted in a court of law. People have been ordered to stay at home (placed under house arrest) who have not been shown to be infected or have acted to infect others. This is likewise true of the abrogation of people’s right to assemble peaceably, of people’s right to the use of their private property (business activity), and of people’s right to practice their religion. None of these individuals or groups have been charged with a specific (and provable) crime, involving breaking a specific legislatively enacted law, and proven to have done so in a court of law. All are presumed guilty without due process and deprived of their rights without due process.
Thirdly, the measures you mention impact only the individual who has been charged and proven guilty in a court of law. The guilty party—and he alone—faces punishment. Not the entire community. Re the control of infectious diseases, one may lawfully and forcibly quarantine, for example, a person infected with tuberculosis. But it must be proved that he is indeed infected.
Fourthly, covid’s dangers are roughly equivalent to those of any seasonal flu. Covid kills far fewer people than many other infectious diseases, such as pneumonia or tuberculosis. As a mortality risk, it is roughly equivalent to driving a car. Those at risk are almost exclusively the elderly and those with serious comorbidities. It is NOT a general-population epidemic. In view of this, measures against covid have established a precedent whereby such measures (extra-judicial edicts) can be enacted on a continual basis—every time there is a sniffle going around. We are being asked to accept the complete and total abrogation of the civil liberties of our entire nation as a (supposed) response to one of life’s commonplace, and, frankly, lesser hazards.
Sounds like your major beef is that there is no law passed; that you feel the power we gave the governor supported by laws) cannot be wielded as prescribed by law. I would disagree.
The statement that Covid kills far few than other diseases, like the seasonal flue, pneumonia or TB is false, as you well know. It has been a long, long time since any of those killed 200,000 people in 9 months. Mostly because we learned to control them and no longer need the draconian measures we apply to Covid...because we have NOT learned to control it. Yet.
Nor have we suffered the "complete and total abrogation of the civil liberties of our entire nation". You know as well as I do that doesn't even come close to being true; that we have not lost but a tiny portion of them and that only temporarily.
Worldwide, TB kills 1.5-2 million people per year. Pneumonia kills 4 million people per year, worldwide. In 2019, there were 57,956 pneumonia deaths in the US. The actual number of US deaths from covid alone are about 9,000.
My county, with a population of 32,598 has had exactly two covid deaths. There have been 24 "cases"--that is, people who tested positive, which in no way indicates that they were actually sick. Many people are tested because of work requirements, others because they may be in contact with vulnerable people, and still others for no discernable reason at all. Testing produces many false positives, and probably very few people testing positive were symptomatic. There seems to be no information available as to the percentage of people testing positive who displayed symptoms. There is no information available for the number of hospitalizations for my county, either.
I have met exactly one resident of my county who says she had "the flu"--back in January. I personally no of no one else in my county who is or has been sick since January first. As far as second-hand information goes, one of my friends told me a couple of months ago that she knew of two cases, two elderly men who were both hospitalized and recovered. That's it.
One of my friends in Kansas City recently told me that he knew of no one who had been sick.
Based on the number of cases in Kansas City, that city has now crossed the threshold into herd immunity. It is estimated that AT LEAST 50% of the population is immune to covid, due to cross-immunity. I have read estimates as high as 80%--which is well beyond herd immunity. But the 50% estimate works well for predictive purposes.
Back here in objective reality, covid is virtually non-existent--presumably not a COMPLETE hoax, but merely a rather innocuous virus that (like most minor ailments) kills quite a few of the elderly and those in otherwise fragile health. Some very few otherwise healthy people experience symptoms of flu. I have rarely seen such a mild flu season. I.e., nobody is or has been sick.
What we have is a mild iteration of the seasonal flu that has been seized on as a pretext for the destruction of small, independent business (no one closed down the big corporations), and general economic destruction through job losses, as well as a pretext for almost completely abolishing civil liberties.
That is its purpose.
This is a fascinating theory.
Now that I think back, last flu season I didn't know a single person who got the flu, but they talked me into getting a flu shot. What a waste of money! I now wonder if that wasn't a hoax too.
And all these claims of racism and police misbehavior? I've never been racially profiled. I've never been pulled over by a cop for no reason. Since I've never seen any racism, perhaps it doesn't exist.
And you know, when I walk outside and look out at the horizon, it's flat, but they say the world is round. What real proof do I have that the world is round? I've never seen it. Sure, they have pictures from space, but how do I know those haven't been faked?
I suspect that it's all the same way with COVID. Now the big question is this: what kind of chemicals are they going to put in this so-called vaccine? I will be you that it'll be some kind of mind-altering chemical that makes people vote Democratic or something. I mean, we won't know what's in that thing, which is why there's no way in hell I'll take any vaccine. I'm not taking the flu vaccine, nothing.
This makes a lot of sense.
What you have personally witnessed is close to my own experiences.
What you conjecture, likely reflects the reality of it to a large degree.
It has pushed social changes as well, online education, work from home, this is changing how we live, at a time when 5G networks are being deployed and internet and cellphones have become accessible to all.
It has drastically forced society into accepting new norms, such as grocery and meal delivery, ordering goods online through the likes of Amazon, banking online rather than in person, streaming movies, etc.
While an over-reaction was understandable in the first months of March-April, the rest that continues, to this day, is totally overblown and unnecessary.
It shows the power of propaganda and misleading information to get a "herd reaction"... somewhat easier to achieve than "herd immunity".
Well, y'all keep swallowing the koolaid, and sooner or later, probably sooner, all the Trump followers will take covid and die out and there'll be nothing but Democrats left to laugh about the "hoax".
Seriously, now even President Trump is backtracking and saying that he knew all along how serious Covid was and that he denied it because he didn't want to cause a panic. Are y'all buying that?
What d'you think you're? When the virus break out, I didn't put on a face-cloth covering at once. And, I need no proof to know the air we breath is a particle of oxgen atoms. That this can transport the virus from China to anywhere! Trump is that dump? While majority were stipulating a theory that the virus aan't hit.Africa, it did not came as a surprise to the few like me, and yet these did not run for a face mast. Trump may be acting that. And now where I sat are 2 men forming a triangle with me. Two meters apart. No face cloth. Two is a company, and three makes a crowd which is likely to make your theory absurd!
Yep, I am buying it. Even as wrong as his method and bad his messaging was, I think he truly thought the best choice was to offer hope and promote calm rather than stoke fear and panic. I can agree with that. I just don't agree with his presentation. He should have found a more palatable way to promote that calm and hope.
Oh, brother! He did what he did and it was totally appropriate for the matter at hand at the time as it happened.
He was fine!
We have all done our best, including the president.
The only people who are not fine, are a small minority of totally despicable jerks who are self-righteously looting, grabbing, burning and maiming.
They are the ones who are spreading the germs. They are the ones running amok. They are the ones to be condemned!
Not the President who works tirelessly for this nation and its' citizens.
PS I hate that word, "should".
No, I don't think "he was fine." I think he went too far in diminishing the dangers of the virus. I agree with the concept of promoting calm and hope, (even when the situation is dire), instead of doom and gloom, but my opinion is that Pres. Trump's presentation completely misled the nation's citizens.
Consider the bigger picture... which he himself was well aware based on his many attempts to deliver it, albeit not in the most articulate and comprehensive manner.
That bigger picture is just starting to rear its head... millions struggling to afford food.... tens of millions of jobs lost.... major industries on which America is heavily dependant (service related) being wiped out.
Suicides are up by over 40% since February, the impact of job loss, and social distancing is only going to increase this problem.
Decreased access to community
Barriers to mental health treatment
Are all contributing factors increased significantly by shutting down businesses, schools, public spaces, etc.
Anyone with some Common Sense and the ability to project out where all this was going to lead would know that price for these "shut downs" was going to be a lot more than merely economical.
Drug abuse will increase, suicides will increase, the amount of people living in total poverty will increase... violence is increasing, murders are on the rise.
Every life they want to think they have saved by shutting everything down or forcing absurd restrictions in place on Restaurants and other businesses is going to lead to more deaths than these efforts saved, from a virus which has only killed some 10,000 people who didn't already have serious medical issues or other contributing factors (like being shot).
That's a hard reality to swallow, far more young people will die from suicide this year than die from Covid... and many of those suicides will be due to the isolation and separation we have forced upon them.
The "bigger picture" was what I was considering when I said I could accept and understand Pres. Trump's intent, (promote hope and optimism), when he downplayed the seriousness of the virus. It is the opinion that he did it "just fine" that I disagree with.
I don't think he did it right. We have all heard that old phrase that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
As for the damage caused by the lockdowns, I agree with you. I understand that the original course of action was driven by fear and a lack of knowledge, but that effort should have been constantly modified as we learned more. Instead, the issue became political. And the damage was magnified.
One might consider what President Trump was being told when he made his statements that downplayed the virus. It was very clear in Jan and throughout Feb he was being given information from Dr. Fauci as well as CDC and WHO that the possibility was low that the US would have a large outbreak. Yes, he would have been smarter to just not comment on the science of the virus. But, it is well proven, Trump offers his opinion without thinking of the long term consequences. One must also keep in mind Trump quickly pulled together a task force that was giving almost daily press conferences on the virus, giving any new information on the virus. We knew so little about the virus, and still don't.
Fauci clearly made the statement throughout Feb, "not to panic", that the virus had a low prospect of affecting the US. He also gave information on what was being done in regard to developing a vaccine as early as the end of Jan.
In my view, the President should have kept his mouth shut. If he would have the people would be putting the blame on CDC. WHO, and test Fauci. In reality, no one should be shouldering the blame. This is a new virus no one, in reality, knew anything about it, and still know little.
In Feb, Fauci actually said he would still travel to China. I would think this should tell the public, the president may not have been panicking due to his statements.
We as a society have always felt some "big brother in the sky can make it all better"... This is a fallacy, a virus is a monster, and can only be somewhat handled with a vaccine. Time to stop blaming and consider all including the president have done the very best they could when it comes to what was done when. Take time to get the facts from the media Hero. I think you may feel different after hearing the facts. Very interesting video, I wish the media would offer these facts.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/hea … 787209002/
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-st … ask-force/
I have considered all the points you mention Sharlee. And I think they support my opinion that Pres. Trump's intentions were for the good of the nation, (and also himself). I do not agree with the opinions that he ignored the science of the virus.
Contrary to most Liberal-leaning opinions, I think the Woodward revelations about him knowing the virus was serious support my opinion that he was not ignoring the science presented to him and was trying to calm the nation.
But even so, I think his public presentations were pure over-the-top Trump. In my opinion, he tried too hard and went too far. This means that I do think he did it wrong, but I don't think his motives were the ones being attributed to him by his detractors.
In my view, he should have let the taskforce handle the daily press conferences, let them report the science, and what needed to be done to help curb the pandemic. He has no expertise in medicine or virology. His opinion in regards to the science of the virus was unimportant in this situation. He should have stuck to what was being done by the Federal Government in regard to supplying PPE and helping the Governors with their individual needs to fight the Virus.
Many at this point are blaming him for a Virus that in reality may have been handled badly by our scientific community. One need only follow the dates... At the end of Jan, Dr. Fauci and CDC DR Redfield made statements that the virus had a low risk of causing problems for the US.
CDC January 31, 2020 -- " DR. REDFIELD: Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Let me give you an update on the current situation of the novel coronavirus. First, though, I want to emphasize that this is a serious health situation in China, but I want to emphasize that the risk to the American public currently is low. Our goal is to do all we can do to keep it that way." https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-st … ask-force/
Dr. Fauci January 31, 2020, Same transcript -- "There are a number of countries outside of China that have travel-related cases. And now what we’re seeing is that there are secondary cases from them, and, as Bob mentioned, we also have that in this country. The WHO has issued, as you know, a Public Health Emergency of International Concern declaration.
If you put all these things together, I underscore what Bob said: We still have a low risk to the American public, but we want to keep it at low risk. And because there are so many unknowns here, we’re going to take the action that the Secretary will describe, in a temporary way, to make sure we mitigate, as best as we possibly can, this risk. Thank you."
In regards to the Woodward tapes, on Feb 7, 2020, Trump made the statements the virus was worse than any flu. and was an airborne pathogen, very bad... and more... This was only 7 days after we were told the virus held a low probability of becoming a problem. It well appeared Trump had a different opinion of its virility. So, who was being truthful? Did the CDC and Fauci recommend to keep it low key at this point? Is Trump telling the truth, he did not want to panic the country? He did at this very same time stop travel from China. It would appear they all knew the virus was going to be a problem and may have underplayed it to stop a public panic.
At any rate, Trump has a problem with deciphering what he should share, and what he should not share with journalists?.
The other day , Dr. Fauci came to his defense after the Woodward tapes were released --- He claimed that the president always listened to the team, at times disagreed but followed any advice they gave.
And yes his public presentations were over the top. Much of the time he appears to be in over his head. His mouth much of the time is his worst enemy, his very words keep him in hot water.
Well, he has a lot of help from the bulk of MSM in looking as bad as he does.
Anything they can take out of context they do.
And then there is CNN, fabricating even more.
The "News" outlets have become representatives of political extremes, feeding into biases and stoking the flames of division.
Covid is just one more issue that has been used to divide people.
I am going to get one of those novelty companies to make me an IslandMom Bobblehead.
Then you can just jiggle the bobblehead and I won't have to worry about being responsible for any neck strains. ;-)
Sadly, Mizbejabbers, all evidence points to this conclusion. Many people are only taking COVID seriously when either they get it, somebody they know gets it, or somebody they personally know dies. Otherwise, since they can't see it, it doesn't exist or isn't serious despite what everyone says. I just hope the people who don't take it seriously and don't wear masks don't take too many of the rest of us down with them.
The irony here, of course, is that if we all wore masks, the numbers would drop precipitously by Election Day, Trump could declare victory, and the economy and unemployment would rebound. He'd almost certainly be re-elected. Instead, we have what we have.
Given this, we might as well just go back to the way it was and whoever dies can die. It will mostly be those who are already unhealthy or those who are old.
I am always amazed by the number of people running around at large who don't seem to have a working bullshit meter. I have a couple of very dear old friends who are like that, so I can't say that this necessarily makes a person all bad.
But if you find that being a "believer" in something or other helps soothe your anxieties, you would be wise to repose your faith in something other than the US government, the CDC, the NIH, the FDA, the Department of Whatever.
"herd immunity"? What a beautiful phrase! Never heard of it before. Fortunately, not unfortunately, it happens in every country! More so, I once post on facebook: "Awusa na nama" during the public burial of a very top officer in the goverment of Nigeria's Muhamadu Buhari. That means the. Hause of Nigeria believe in herd immunity. Seriously, it's now a question for the WHO and CDC and Prevention.
Well, we will see what happens. There have been some Covid cases stemming from some of his rallys where masks were not worn and social distancing not kept. I don't think his ego is worth the risk, so if I were a supporter, I would have had a mask covering my face at the convention.
"However, the media has every right to point that mitigations were not kept, but why make it the number one story over and above all some of the very real stories Americans provide at the Convention last night."
Well, Sharlee, I consider this a big story in itself. The statement is being made that masks, social distancing and responsible approaches to not spreading the virus is not important to delegates, the GOP and, by extension, the nation at large. That is a huge take-away and a glaring Party platform in of itself.
What are they trying to prove or demonstrate, and are they really willing to stake their lives on it?
Just like in Sturges, SD, there is a certain arrogance surrounding the clinging on to a cavelier and irresponsible attitude.
Who encourages it, do we not look to the leader to set a proper example?
I know that it is not practical to social distance in such a gathering but the minimum safety requirement of wearing a mask would have been appropriate.
The President and the current administration has never taken this pandemic seriously enough. I am still convinced that Herman Cain contracted the virus and died from same at a Tulsa rally.
Is the GOP is promoting herd immunity attitude without saying so? Trump says, "it is what it is". With this pandemic far from being under control, the attitude of opening everything up without consideration for safety is increasing infection rates and costing lives.
That is very strong message from the convention that is as least as strong and prominent as any of the speakers and speeches made there.
Not sure the GOP is promoting the herd immunity, I have talked with several Republicans this week due to being a canvasser for my community. I made sure to approach with a mask on, and if invited in we distanced.
It appears you feel the message was sent that the GOP may have wanted to promote they are not on board with mitigations. I can see why you came to that opinion as I said in my comment I believe we all need to keep up mitigations at this point. It is really helping get us back to a few of our previous lives.
Hopefully, this is not the only message you got from the Convention. I will admit several times as I watched the convention I thought of you and hoped you were watching. I thought many of the American's that spoke might have provided you with some hope for the changes you are seeking.
I would feel many that watched saw just what you saw and it disturbed them. Let me quote myself from my comment "I think as you do the audience should have been wearing masks and be distanced. We are all taking precautions, and I wish this audience had."
I had hoped to point out that CNN and MNBC concentrated on reporting very little of the people that stepped up and shared their stories. Most were deeply inspiring. Not as dark as what media seems to be promoting. In fact, I felt this was a convention that highlighted a celebration of the people, the people that could see sitting at my kitchen table. The people that really makeup America.
Soon you will have to vote --- please step out of your comfort zone and look at what Trump is doing and has done for black people. Maybe start with Opportunity zones. (Meant to be light, funny)
Well, Sharlee, I see other people that make up America who I would more likely find sitting at my kitchen table. I did see one black face from the crowd in the photo. Is this what you consider those that make up America? I am used to seeing a more diverse crowd.
It is more that a "Black thing", Sharlee, for example
1. I don't like Trump, his administration and Republicans in general for cutting the Consumer Finance Protection Board (CFPB) at the knees. Who do you think that the Republicans are trying to protect?
2. I did like the attack on Obamacare, Trump promised an improved replacement. I see nothing in its stead.
3. I think that it was dumb to unilaterally renege on the agreement negotiated by President Obama regarding Iran, Russia, and France, Britain and Germany. It was needlessly provocative and certainly not the way I would do things.
4. I did not like Trump reversing the big no Obama gave to the Canadian pipeline during his administration based on environmental concerns. Trump reversed it and allowed the oil to flow. An accident last year spilled thousands of gallons over the reservations inhabited by indigenous people.
5. I don't like the Trump attitude that "women have to be punished" for merely exercising their abortion rights under "Roe vs Wade".
6. I am neither fond of Trump or Republicans for continuing the "Cold War" in regards to Cuba. As all of the world's nations have long ago remove them from the pariah status. Obama was moving in the right direction in my opinion by lowering tensions and putting a half century old pi$$ing contest to bed.
7. I distrust Republican tendencies to consistently support corporate interests over that of labor.
So, from foreign policy standpoints to domestic policy, the GOP and I are like oil and water. So, issues regarding race with the Republicans are just the tip of the iceberg.
You need to stick with the party you feel will provide you with an agenda that you feel comfortable with. No matter what they have done in the past, it is apparent you have good faith they will get it right this time.
From my experience, both sides disappoint. It is just that am more disappointed with one side in comparison with the other.
I see where you are coming from. I am pleased with the direction that America is headed under Trump for all. I do see problems with his Character at times. However, I am no longer looking for any form of a politician to fill the job of president. I have been so dissatisfied for many many years with our presidents. I finally feel I got some of what I expected with a disruptor.
I second that.
Trump has plenty of issues, but he has done things to benefit America, and workers, those with little education especially had been making gains
People/Americans seem to be in one of 3 camps:
They support Trump, American Nationalism, American Citizens First, and Disrupting the corruption in DC.
They support what the Democrats used to be, they feel Trump is a Republican, that he represents the Corporate and Elite types, and that the Democrats still fight for the American people and the "workers".
Then there are the "Progressives", the ones that want to burn it all down, the revolutionaries, the ones that follow Marx, SJW, Critical Theory, How to be a Anti-Racist teachings... its a wonderful mix, a cauldron of ideas that ultimately lead to the same thing, this Nation's demise.
Unrest and turmoil the likes of which the Russians and Chinese went through during their revolutions, where there is zero tolerance for opposition, it will be stamped out, by the millions if necessary.
We have the people who realize what is going on... and they are choosing either America more or less as it is, with the slow process of improvement we have seen these many decades (since the Civil Rights Movement).
And those in full opposition to that, the ones wanting revolution, the ones willing to burn it all down. Nestled within the Democrats' camp.
The rest are deluding themselves into thinking the Democrats and Republicans of old still exist.
Many of the debates in these forums are made by people who still believe this, they have yet to accept how far apart and how drastic a difference there is in our two options today.
There will be no moderation from the Democrats if they win this election, it will be an all out assault on Americans, on the Constitution, on Law and Order as we think of it... it may even conclude with our having a One Party system... and woe to those who try and oppose it.
This is not hyperbolic speculation... this is observation based on a sound foundation of history, and personal experience of being in other countries where overnight things go from everyday normal, to revolutionary chaos.
Up is down. Look around. You're living in Trump's America right now. He promoted and advocated for this violence. He's only the "law and order" President when the "law and order" applies to those he doesn't like. Otherwise, he advocates for police to rough people up. He advocates for the beating of reporters. He advocates for assaults on women.
The current conditions in America are exactly what Trump has promoted.
The Republicans which you dislike, are to blame for this. That handful of "Rino" types, that promised to their constituents that they would repeal Obamacare, it was a #1 issue to voters in many states... when they had the opportunity they reneged, like McCain.
Same for the House, they had the numbers... but there were enough Republicans that were obstructionists to making positive change (sell outs to Big Pharma or Insurance most likely).
Six dozen Republican Congressmen did not run for re-election in 2018, including the House Speaker, they were as bad as the Democrats at blocking the President from being able to really address the ACA.
That is far more complicated than it appears. It had a lot to do with the production of oil, Europe's access to it, China's very close ties to Iran, and their ownership of most of what Iran produces.
The fact that the pipeline that was going to ship that oil and gas to Europe was intended to go through Syria and Iraq, one of the major reasons for the decision to destabilize Syria (in actuality they wanted to overthrow Assad)... total lunacy, we are over there overthrowing Iraq, Syria, Libya, over oil and here we are, just a few years later, and the world has more oil than it knows what to do with... driving is down, planes aren't flying, and cruise ships will be parked doing absolutely nothing for many more months to come.
The truth is that was a BAD deal. It took away America's options and empowered Iran. Trump trashing it gave American more options that are nonmilitary.
The deal had taken all of our nonmilitary, economically coercive options off the table. America had no way of confronting Iran in the region, or confronting their missile program, or confronting their support of terrorism, short of military action.
Now we have all of our sanction abilities back. Now we can build maximum pressure that is nonmilitary and use our diplomatic tools, that is giving us the best hope of solving issues with nonmilitary means.
So do I, unfortunately, some decades ago during the Clinton Administration the Democrats sold out the American people, the workers, and have been outdoing the Republicans in sucking up to the Corporations and Banks.
Glass-Steagall and NAFTA both happened under Clinton's watch. And then Obama and a Democrat controlled Congress gave us the ACA written by Insurance Companies and Big Pharma so that they could get even richer... at our expense.
You made some other points I agree with.
But if you think the likes of Pelosi or Biden are the good guys, you are fooling yourself.
Perhaps none of them are "good guys", but from my standpoint some are worse than others.
I disagree with 90 percent of the GOP platform while disagreeing with about 20 percent of that of the Democrats. Who comes closer to being on my same page?
To me this is so disappointing and shocking:
What you consider shocking, looks normal to me.
I like normal... lets hope normal wins out over unrest and anarchy.
Oh My God. What a great retort. I think the media has made many only have the room to go down one path, to acknowledge one thing they hope one to concentrate on. Yes, those on the left seem to have this kind of thought process. It just does not matter that we have had months of violence so few wearing masks, but they tell them to look past that--- they are fighting for your cause. Concentrate on Trump, and anything that enters his space.
If it helps, protesters who don't wear masks are idiots. And it should be pointed out again and again. I want to know if protests are spreading the virus and the media owes us investigations when they see protests without masks.
It would appear Ken was making a point that many are up in arms over many not wearing a mask at the RNC convention last night, but many appear not to have brought up or perhaps not even noted that many protesters and rioters don't wear a mask.
It is apparent now you are pointing out any and all that won't wear a mask makes you really mad.
That is correct. People who gather in crowds without masks are stupid, be they protestors or those attending the RNC. Worse, they are willing to endanger themselves and others.
The irony is that such behavior will lead to more deaths and make it less likely Trump will be re-elected. You'd think Republicans would be the primary mask wearers given it will reduce spread and make Trump look good.
In this phase of the virus, it is wise not to be in large crowds without the benefit of being able to distance or not wearing a mask when in close contact.
I think many citizens are showing a form of hypocrisy by ignoring the protesters yet pointing out at any chance gatherings that the President has had such as the Convention gathering. The virus is now a political tool for many, and this is unfortunate, we should all be on the same page with how to do the best we can to get rid of the virus. In my view --- The mask has become just another battle tool. After Nov3 the virus will be gone... Magically we will be expected to "buck-up." There will be little care about mask or distancing. It will all be about, let's get back to normal, we have done all we can... And we can be proud of the fact our numbers are coming down, we have new treatments for the virus, and less are perishing.
This is off-topic, but I dare anyone to read this and tell me systemic racism isn't alive and well in this country. I found this article heartbreaking. Warning: it's long.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ … sed-325676
If you happen to read it, what's your solution to the problem described?
I think this was a worthwhile reason to go off-topic...
Very long article, very riveting and sad. These kinds of stories are many and have been for so many years. Things have slowly progressed, but still, racism is a horrendous problem in many respects.
In regards to a solution to targeting blacks at our border. I would suppose better training of its employees, and the room to punish or fire anyone that appears to have targetted one for their color. I would think this would be a start and make border employees less apt to target anyone for their race. Yes, better job training.
You are right, it is an off-topic tangent. Start a thread with it. I bet a lot of us would participate. ;-)
I read this, everything changes yet remains the same.
I hope that the young lady did become gainfully employed despite every dirty trick to employed by her very countrymen to derail her from her objectives and dreams
That's great. Make a forum about it. I thought we all wanted this pandemic to end and to get back to our lives, but apparently not. Mask wearing has proved to be effective, yet some people simply refuse. Your post has nothing to do with the forum and is just a deflection. All this violence has increased under Trump. It's undoubtedly exacerbated by people being stuck at home. Driving this pandemic away would undoubtedly help it all. I simply can't understand why these people want to risk their own health and everybody else's.
Agreed "disappointing and shocking. And it's a crowd such like a political rally. What makes sense here is not the 3 m distancing. Is the law of the 3 m applicable to football, basketball, and games, and sporting events? Cranka, we've got a problem.
They aren't wearing masks because nobody believes in the covid charade.
It's whole purpose is/was to deprive people of their civil liberties (freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, freedom to travel, private property rights--and even placing whole populations under house arrest), and to destroy small, independent businesses and the economy in general. People know this.
This is a "color revolution," the chief elements of which are civil unrest/violence and economic destruction (in the interests of generating still more civil unrest/violence).
Even the people ordering the shutdowns don't believe in them, or in the masks or social distancing: "Philadelphia Mayor Jim Kenney is being shamed by his city - whose restaurants he has barred from operating - and forced to apologize after he was spotted dining indoors in Maryland, without a mask, while his city remains shut down."
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/phila … -shut-down
It was a happy relief to see all those people on the grounds of the White House who were behaving ...
just like the old days!
It was terrible to see the angry, destructive people outside the White House.
They are lost in some sort of a downward spiral.
Hatred should be reserved for evil. Not for presidents who are trying their best and our fellow human beings.
Well if Trump were to enforce social distancing, there would be less space for seats and therefore fewer attendees. And if he were to enforce mask rules, he'd get a ton of backlash from his supporters who believe in 'individual rights'.
So, to put it simply, Trump does not care if he spreads the virus. He only cares about the election. Trump thrives on packed, cheering crowds. Those crowds generate enthusiasm and excitement. And that's all he cares about unfortunately
This is not presenting a window of optimism in the midst of a tragedy. I think of the optmism projected by real leaders like Churchill or FDR. I don' t think that either of those men held back the tru nature of the challenges ahead from their respective citizens. Trump does not come close to behaving like either of them.
Trump knew the nature of the danger from the beginning and chose to withhold vital information, information relative to protection and survival of the populace because of some nonsense about spreading panic. Trump? More cover for this guy and excusing the inexcusable?
He did more than just withhold information.
He's been a hindrance to wearing masks (making it about freedom), ignores social distancing whenever he holds an event and showing his followers they don't need to adhere to those CDC guidelines, and undermined the governors when they decided their states needed lockdowns because it interfered with getting the economy back up and running. Then he ignored the science in encouraging states to reopen - which led to massive spikes in Louisiana, Texas, Florida, and Georgia.
His administration reportedly scuttled a national testing program because Democratic states were being hit hardest and that would help him politically.
All that, and we haven't even talked about his dangerous suggestions for disinfectants or his promotion of hydroxychloroquine which led to spikes in poisonings and even at least one death.
Valeant, every one of the things you accuse Trump of doing is a GOOD thing. All of the covid measures you mention--masks, social distancing, lockdowns--are at best nonsensical and at worst deeply destructive.
The virus WILL run its course, regardless of any of these measures. It will end when herd immunity is reached, as per virology 101. That is the way it works, however much you might prefer to believe otherwise. But once you accept this reality, all further discussion of "measures" you could take to "slow the contagion" or "flatten the curve" are moot, since no such measures can or will influence the final outcome.
The only measure that would have been desirable would have been to protect the vulnerable (particularly those in nursing homes) at the outset. This was well understood back in March.
It will probably take at least a year for the economic damage from the various covid measures to become apparent. Millions have been impoverished through job losses and business closings. Millions will face eviction or foreclosure.
But I'm sure you'll still be around to claim that the Democrat mayors and governors whose policies left, and will continue to leave, millions destitute was somehow Trump's fault.
That'd be great if people were actually immune after getting Covid. Problem is, people have gotten it a second time, because there are some different strains out there. That topic was covered in Virology 201.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/28/cov … lications/
You're prescribing what Sweden did, and their deaths rates five times higher than neighboring countries. Although, currently, their cases are less than those neighbors.
When you don't attempt to (temporarily) suppress contagion, you get a large number of cases early on, followed by herd immunity. This is what happened in Sweden. Cases have fallen dramatically in Sweden but are rising in the EU. This is because it is impossible to permanently suppress a viral contagion. Contagion continues until herd immunity is reached. Regardless of whether draconian measures are enacted to slow the contagion, the final count will be the same. It's kind of like pulling off a bandaid on your toe. You can do it slowly, or you can do it fast. Or, if you were an advocate of extreme covid measures, I suppose you would be in favor of cutting off your leg.
As for there being different strains out there, of course there are different strains. Viruses mutate constantly. There is nothing that can be done about that, either. Any mutated form of the virus must run its course until herd immunity is reached.
This article provides some charts showing the progress of the virus in Sweden versus other EU countries--that is, trickling away to nothing in Sweden while rising in the EU. Covid is probably done in Sweden. https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ … wns-werent
What if you suppress the contagion (temporarily)...until you have an effective vaccine?
What is the total lives lost doing that vs doing nothing?
Wilderness, there has never been a successful vaccine for coronaviruses, even in veterinary practice. And it's not like they haven't been trying--for many years. You are hoping for something that will almost certainly prove as elusive as the AIDS vaccine they've been promising us for forty years.
One of the difficulties is the same as the one we have with the regular flu vaccine: Viruses continually mutate. In developing annual flu vaccines, what they do is to try to anticipate which of many mutated variants of the flu is a good candidate for creating widespread illness during an approaching flu season. It's really just guesswork. Even the CDC claims that flu vaccinations are only about 50% effective.
There will be no vaccine--or at least no one that is effective.
My understanding is that coronavirus vaccines that were developed for veterinary practice were unsuccessful in that they provided only the most ephemeral level of immunity and also had side effects so severe that their use was abandoned.
I do think it is possible that a vaccine will be developed and promoted that is neither safe nor effective. I would avoid it if I were you.
As for you question, "What is the total lives lost doing that vs doing nothing?" the answer is, "There is no difference."
Also, I would not suggest doing absolutely nothing. The vast majority of covid deaths could have been avoided by protecting the elderly and frail, especially those in nursing homes. There was at least one nursing home that enacted strict bio-containment measures early, where there were zero cases and zero deaths among their residents. There are also treatments which, when administered early, are highly effective in preventing the illness from progressing. Another really good measure that could have prevented many deaths would have been to make very little use of ventilators.
Covid is no more dangerous or serious a illness than the common cold or flu. Probably less so, in that it is scarcely dangerous to anyone other than the frail and elderly. At least 50% of the population has cross-immunity, and children are virtually immune to it. It is actually a rather innocuous iteration of the common cold. The way to handle it is through proper medical treatment of those who are ill, along with bio-containment measures in nursing homes (and hospitals, which are/were also vectors affecting primarily the vulnerable). If the elderly and those in frail health had been protected until herd immunity was reached--preferably rapidly--the need for such measures, and for self-quarantine, would be brief.
I have several friends who have been self-quarantining since March. Absent all the efforts to slow the contagion and "flatten the curve," they could have resumed their normal lives after a couple of months, as the contagion would have ended.
Actually, it is already over in most areas now.
50% effective or not, vaccines seem helpful. From the CDC:
"... during 2018-2019, flu vaccination prevented an estimated 4.4 million influenza illnesses, 2.3 million influenza-associated medical visits, 58,000 influenza-associated hospitalizations, and 3,500 influenza-associated deaths."
"A 2018 study showed that from 2012 to 2015, flu vaccination among adults reduced the risk of being admitted to an intensive care unit (ICU) with flu by 82 percent."
Given these kinds of numbers, I rather take exception to your statement that waiting for a vaccine vs doing nothing produces nothing of value.
Same for children being immune; we already have several cases of children going to school and then infecting their parents and siblings. As the year progresses there will be more.
If Covid is no more dangerous than the flu (including factoring in the flu vaccine) then we should be seeing two or three hundred thousand flu deaths per year. We aren't; the conclusion has to be that it is more dangerous. Perhaps it won't be with a vaccine, but for now it most definitely is.
Such dangerous misinformation in here that I felt compelled to report this post.
First, with 20% of patients developing long-term heart problems and 10% getting blood clotting, saying it's no more dangerous than the flu is patently false. And that's before you talk about the long-term lung damage or those suffering some effects to the brain.
And saying children are 'virtually immune to it' is a major falsehood. By September 3, 9.8% of cases were among children and over 500,000 cases according to data from the American Academy of Pediatrics.
And it's far from over. Cases are spiking on college campuses and will continue to rise as the colder weather arrives in many places in the US.
Hate to break this to you, but your not the expert on anything.
Your opinion is not more valid than anyone else.
And what you consider 'dangerous misinformation' I have often found to be factual and provable, in the past.
So, I suggest if you want to disprove something, do so, with links and verifiable sources.
Otherwise, your words are no more or less factual than any others on here.
You're* - I love being lectured about expertise levels by people who fail to have a grasp on the basics of the English language. Nothing makes their case better than to start off with a grammatical error a third grader could avoid.
Go ahead then, disprove the data about those percentages of people suffering from Covid-19 long-term effects. Disprove the data about the rate of infection among children. You just complained that those data-driven points were just opinions. Do your own research and present your case. I'll stand by my research.
I understand the media you get bombarded with down there in Merritt Island. I have family that went to high school there, and reside down there. They are in the same fog of angry conservatism you espouse here. They fail to believe in any links or sources that doesn't back up their own (or often Trump's) opinions. We see it time and time again here at this site. And while I don't believe you to be all-in on Trump, I definitely think you're sold on him in this election. Now that's what an opinion looks like.
Really? Do you really want to go there?
"You're* - I love being lectured about expertise levels by people who fail to have a grasp on the basics of the English language. Nothing makes their case better than to start off with a grammatical error a third grader ( third-grader) could avoid."
Go ahead then, disprove the data about those percentages of people suffering from Covid-19 long-term effects. Disprove the data about the rate of infection among children. You just complained that those data-driven points were just opinions. Do your own research and present your case. I'll stand by my research.
. "They fail to believe in any links or sources that doesn't (don't) back up their own (or often Trump's) opinions. We see it time and time again here at this site. And while I don't believe you to be all-in on Trump, I definitely think you're sold on him in this election. Now that's what an opinion looks like."
Plus, you very rarely back up your opinion with any form of source. Just saying.
Yeah, I want to go there. I've seen time and time again, that no matter the source, people like you just dismiss it out of hand without even looking at it. It's become a waste of time including some links because it just becomes a fight about what sources Trumpers find credible. In that fight, there's only a few right answers, and most lead right back to Trump's own propaganda networks or twitter feed.
Instead, I put the data out there, and if you decide it's that important to you, go ahead and do your own research. I will look at three to four different sources before going public with certain statements. I do the work. If that spurs you to investigate, my hope is that you can form your own conclusion after looking at the data But that has rarely happened even in the face of insurmountable data.
One example is your constant claim how great Trump has been on unemployment. You come on here as his greatest cheerleader saying how he deserves all the credit for lowering it to record levels. Then we note that when he assumed office in January 2017, the unemployment level was 4.2% (after having been 10% at the height of the financial crisis). In three years, it has dropped a total of .7%. Obama had dropped it 5.8%, but, in your mind, Trump deserves all the credit and things were horrible under Obama. It's these instances of reality denial that make providing sources to you a wasted effort.
We all have an opinion on who was responsible for the employment under Obama and then Trump.
I have given my opinion on why the economy was having a good comeback at the end of 2016 - 2017 on Obama's time. Obama's economy was slow, stagnant throughout his tenure until the consumer confidence kicked in after Trump won. You need to realize, which you seem to have a bit of a hard time doing, others have opinions.
I can assure you I follow the numbers, and the Obama numbers did take a good upturn at the tail end of his time in office. I do not dispute the stats and never have. I dispute your opinion on why his economy started to improve.
I also feel the economy is on its way back, and it appears at this point it will be a speedy recovery. One again my opinion.
"Yeah, I want to go there. I've seen time and time again, that no matter the source, people like you just dismiss it out of hand without even looking at it. "
I regret you continue to assume others here don't read any resources posted, and refer to others here as "people like you".
As you well know, I offer respectable sources. I would think some would become bored with the number of sources I offer.
You rarely add links to your posts. And that's OK if you present your comment with a caveat that you are presenting a view. Because in the end, even with sources much of the time the articles are opinion
pieces where no real evidence of truth is presented, just unproven allegations.
We all have opinions, views, yours is not the final opinion that should weigh more than anyone else's here on HP's. And the statement 'people like you" could be seen as an insult to not only me but others that post here.
It does not seem to be me that is in denial, it seems to be you that just feel other's opinions don't matter.
Why do you bother with Trump supporters? There's no way they can have any interest in the truth. After all, Trump gained popularity through birther conspiracies. His whole schtick was questioning Obama's birthplace. He's a climate denier. He just put somebody in charge of NOAA who is a climate denier. He's anti-science. He knows more than the generals. He regularly promotes QAnon and its candidates, who throw out ridiculous conspiracy theories. Truth is out the window with this President. Wear masks? Nope. We can't even agree on that. Let's hold indoor rallies against all scientific recommendation. Trump supporters are correct on Coronavirus - let's just go back to how things were and people who die will die. It is what it is. The main appeal of Trump is primarily to white America that he is protecting them. His main tactic is fear. If you don't vote for him again, the cities will burn, brown people will swamp the borders; etc.
Here's a tweet he made the other day:
"Was Andy McCabe ever forced to pay back the $700,000 illegally given to him and his wife, for his wife's political campaign, by Crooked Hillary Clinton while Hillary was under FBI investigation, and McCabe was the head of the FBI???"
None of that is true. In fact. there are four different inaccuracies in there. But who cares? Every statement he makes has to be fact-checked for lies. So who possibly cares about the truth? Certainly not his supporters. Lying is just part of the game and Trump is doing it better than anyone, so he gets points for that.
What's the point of discussing facts? They don't matter any more.
Certainly some must be worthy of saving from themselves.
"Certainly some must be worthy of saving from themselves."
You missed a comma in your sentence.
Certainly, some must be worthy of saving from themselves.
To quote you --- "
" I love being lectured about expertise levels by people who fail to have a grasp on the basics of the English language. Nothing makes their case better than to start off with a grammatical error a third grader (a third grader) could avoid."
I think I have made my point. I will leave you to your rhetoric. I don't in any respect plan to get pulled into a debate with you. I have no respect for the way you communicate, your thought process, or your ideology.
I think it best to leave you to those of the same ilk.
Keep on talking Crank, there are many that see the debate yet are not participants. I know a couple who were banned that still follow the debates.
There are plenty that still watch and listen and can be reasoned with.
In that comment, I was not pointing out your poor grammar. As you found it necessary to do with another user.
Grammer correction ---"One example is your constant claim how great (of how great) Trump has been on unemployment. You come on here as his greatest cheerleader saying how he deserves all the credit for lowering it to record levels. Then we note that when he assumed office in January 2017, the unemployment level was 4.2% (after having been 10% at the height of the financial crisis). In three years, it has dropped a total of .7%. Obama had dropped it 5.8%, but, in your mind, Trump deserves all the credit and things were horrible under Obama. It's these instances of reality denial that make providing sources to you a wasted effort.'
Let me remind you of your own sentiment ---
" I love being lectured about expertise levels by people who fail to have a grasp on the basics of the English language. Nothing makes their case better than to start off with a grammatical error a third grader (a third grader) could avoid."
It would appear you don't have the best of sentence composition or grammar. It might behoove you not to bring grammar up with others.
Obviously you just proved the need for it, again.
"Your opinion is not more valid than anyone else."
Is the correct form. You're ... as you put it, means 'you are'.
So... obviously 'you are' does not fit that sentence.
As for the rest, I am not interested in disproving your opinions.
But I am not the one who is going around "reporting" others for expressing their opinion in a rational calm manner, you are.
'Hate to break this to you, but your not the expert on anything.'
Again, best to skip lecturing me on expertise when you cannot even identify the mistake you made.
And saying children are virtually immune, when 500,000 have been infected, that's not an opinion, that's spreading dangerous disinformation. Many sites are now taking down that kind of misinformation in the interest of public safety.
Given that our President has said that the upcoming election is illegitimate unless he wins, arguing grammar seems pointless. I'm confident Ken understands grammar pretty well.
"Given that our President has said that the upcoming election is illegitimate unless he wins"
Quotation and link, please? Or is this another gross exaggeration, to the point of being an outright lie?
No problem. He's said this multiple times this week. He's said that he will win unless there's cheating. He said it on Fox and Friends today. He said it about Nevada.
https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/13 … 5910431746
He says it at approximately 1:10. He's saying that he will win unless there's cheating and that the Nevada governor is going to cheat.
Let's just say Trump loses. Is there any indication that he will accept that outcome? He's saying all over the place that he can't lose unless there's cheating.
Trump's exact words: "You're going to see a rigged election." How do you think his supporters, who believe everything he says, are going to react if he loses? Do you expect them to just be like "oh, that was fair."
Trump now accusing Biden of pedophilia.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/ … gets-biden
Such an amazing man.
Most wife-beaters and bullies will tell you that it's a tactic to accuse those you harass of the things you're actually guilty of doing yourself. Let's remember who has his picture taken with Jeff Epstein.
Valeant, thank you. What planet is this person from anyway?
I think there is a lot to this.
When the Flu broke out 100 years ago, it was far more devastating than Covid has been. Even so, some places were spared in the first year, as they enacted strict isolation measures.
San Francisco was one such place, it was barely touched by the Flu in 2018, but when they loosened up their restrictions and let life go back to normal, the Flu came for them in 2019 and ran through the populace.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperi … francisco/
https://www.sfgate.com/sfhistory/articl … 494279.php
The initial idea of giving the Hospitals time to prepare, the idea of creating new emergency hospitals to care for the sick was well thought out. The shut downs in March and April were justified and made sense, the rest has been pure idiocy, especially any restrictions ongoing today.
Shut things down for a few weeks, get the ventilators and PPE that you need. And then let things get back to normal, and those that get sick do so, at least now you can care for them.
We didn't do that, some states isolated, some states didn't, some areas were spared some were not... it won't be over, its not ever going away, they are not going to be any more successful finding a vaccine that works for Covid than they have been the last 100 years finding a vaccine for the Flu.
Isolation only means it will take longer for everyone to be exposed to it, but eventually we all will, or already have been. Just like the Flu. You won't escape it forever.
Yes, one of the interesting and often overlooked features of the Spanish Flu of 1918 was that it spread to every corner of the globe, and even to very isolated areas with little outside contact. This was during a period in history in which there was far less travel than there is today, far fewer areas of dense populations, and even far less social contact: a world where the only social contacts many people had were church once a week and a trip to the store once a month.
Yes, just like the flu. There is no herd immunity to the flu. We are urged to get our flu shots yearly. One year after I got the shot, I had the worst case of flu I've ever had.There were at least five strains out that year, and we were vaccinated for only 3 of them. Too bad people keep trying to equate covid to the flu.
Lots of cases of covid are left with permanent organ damage. I've heard of one or two cases of flu that left people with lung damage or chronic coughing.
Viral contagions, whether of colds or flu, end when, and ONLY when, herd immunity is reached. That's the way that works.
Viruses mutate rapidly. Hence, herd immunity must recur for every flu season, and for every strain that is active during a given year, or "flu season." Cross-immunity is common. Immunity to one strain often provides at least partial immunity to other strains. It is estimated that about 50% of the population has cross-immunity to covid, due to being infected with similar strains during prior years.
It is this rapid mutation of viruses that makes it difficult to develop an effective vaccine.
Reports out yesterday that Redfield allowed members of Trump's Health and Human Services to alter the reports coming out of the CDC to fit a narrative Trump was looking to portray. There goes Redfield's credibility. He's now about as trustworthy as Trump in America's eyes.
Mr. Burgess: Glass Stegall and NAFTA? Is that the significant damage a democrat president has done in the last 50 years? Republicans: Watergate, Iran/Contra, pardons for those indictments (the number second only to Nixon's administration in the history of the Republic), Iraq War and economic crash, and Trump 200,000 dead and 20,000 documented lies – so far.
Interesting factual point. It certainly will be interesting to see who wins. I would think it will give good proof of American citizen's mindsets.
And what did Watergate do to the American people?
What did Iran/Contra do to the American people?
Really unbelievable anyone would even try to compare these issues.
Glass Steagall led to tens of millions of Americans losing their homes and their retirement funds, the damage done to the economy lasted a decade.
And NAFTA led to the gutting of Industrial jobs across the nation, as they fled to Canada and Mexico, millions of jobs were transferred out of America and into foreign lands.
The Iraq War... yeah that was a bad one... it followed 9/11 if you remember, and there is no way any President was going to do nothing in response.
And here's the kicker... I am not blaming one or the other... for the last 30 years BOTH parties have been working together to screw the American people.... Democrats worse than the Republicans, heck they gave us the unaffordable for anyone who needed to use it ACA, which helped make the Insurance and Big Pharma companies rich, while doubling or more the cost of Insurance for hard working Americans.
Anyone who looks at these things with objectivity will clearly see that the Democrats have been just as bad, if not worse, for the American people as the Republicans.
I was wondering how the Spanish Flu ended. It seems...it just ended a two years after it started.
"Spanish Flu Pandemic Ends
By the summer of 1919, the flu pandemic came to an end, as those that were infected either died or developed immunity."
Here is an interesting article about pandemics from History Magazine.
https://www.history.com/topics/world-wa … u-pandemic
If one person or the other wins based on lies, neither one wins.
We can't have a democracy without checks and balances. One of the checks is following moral laws.
The Ten Commandments presents a perfectly fine set of moral laws:
Here are some of those laws that would help the nation if its' citizens would just follow them on a voluntary basis:
“Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.
“You shall not murder.
“You shall not commit adultery.
“You shall not steal.
* “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife ... or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
If I do not have the germ, why do I wear a mask? To avoid getting it from someone who might be an asymptomatic carrier. If others are not carriers, why do we wear masks? If we do not know if we are carriers or if we have the antibodies, why do we wear masks? Someday, we are going to be taking off our masks because it just won't make sense to wear them anymore. I can't wait for that day. Meanwhile, I wear a mask in stores, so I can buy stuff.
Why wear a mask if one is not shopping, I wonder.
Did you see the interview with the man and his son who have had active covid since March on TV yesterday. They and victims like him are being referred to as "long-haulers." No sarcasm or insults intended, just a description of victims who get an active case of covid and can't get rid of it in a reasonable length of time. They are in it for the long haul. The two were both infected, infectious, and sick, yet they could walk down the street and you would never know that they had covid. The mask does offer some protection for the wearer, too.
The little boy, 9-years-old, told of how painful the disease is and how weak he feels much of the time. He advised other children not to make light of the mistaken belief that children don't get sick with covid.
That is why I wear a mask, that is why you wear a mask, that is why caring people wear masks when we go out in public. Thank you for caring, Kathryn.
You are telling me that I am an asymptomatic carrier of covid.
Now, you actually have no idea whatsoever, yet you tell me that fact.
It can only be a probability.
To what extent is it probable that I am a carrier of the CV 19 germ.
Why are those in the interview (who have long term symptoms) not being quarantined by their doctors? If they do not have doctors, it's possible they aren't infected with CV19, but some other virus/germ/microbe.
If I have symptoms and am verified by testing and a doctor that I have CV19, I would stay home until all symptoms have completely disappeared for two weeks at minimum. (At which point, I will have antibodies and won't need to protect myself or others.)
Getting tested and quarantining oneself until completely well, (showing antibodies in the bloodstream,) is caring and is what should be advocated strongly.
Government money should go to legitimate covid 19 victims to help them quarantine and beat the germ. They should be given appropriate health help/guidance through diet and personal habits while quarantined.
If they do not cooperate, no more money and they stay home or be charged with spreading the germ when they don't stay home.
Lol. Now I'm getting carried away.
I hate this germ.
Some people do have a slow recovery. One of my daughters experienced a slow recovery from the flu (doctors refused to test her, so we can only assume it was covid), because she has Lyme Disease. So, yes, there are people who experience this and remain ill for longer than normal, due to co-morbidities. This would be true of any flu virus they might contract, as well as most other infectious diseases. Covid is not unique in this respect: If you're already sick...um, yeah...recovery from any secondary infection will likely be more difficult and take longer. (My daughter did fully recover from the presumed covid infection.)
Your comment is irrelevant re covid, as it common to all infectious diseases.
Your ability to cite an instance in which a child has the flu is also irrelevant. Instances of children contracting a cold or flu are hardly a "Stop the presses!" event. I think we may also be forgiven if we are unsurprised when you confide that a child with a cold or flu experiences some discomfort.
Covid infections are very rare in children, as shown by hundreds or thousands presentations of readily available data.
The data for the state of Missouri shows that there have been exactly ZERO covid deaths among people aged 0-19. Ninety percent (90.5% of all covid deaths are among people over 60 years of age. Fifty percent (49.7%) of all covid deaths are among people over 80 years of age. Seventy-six (76%) of all covid deaths are among people over 70 years of age. Only 3% of covid deaths are among people under the age of 50. Only 9% are among people under 60. Missouri covid deaths total 1,739, out of a population of 6.13 million. This gives a death rate, as a percentage of the population, of 0.028%. The death rate for the common seasonal flu--if it's a bad one--is 0.1%.
Hence, the death rate from covid is only 28% of that of the death rate from a rather severe seasonal flu.
You too can view the actual data for covid, by looking at the health department statistics for your locale. I trust you are also able to use a calculator.
If you were able to do basic math, it would be clear to you that covid is really an unusually mild iteration of the seasonal flu.
"Hence, the death rate from covid is only 28% of that of the death rate from a rather severe seasonal flu."
This is interesting, especially in view of the 200,000 deaths in 9 months this year. When was the last year we saw that many deaths from the flue in a population of 320 million in less than one year? 200,000/320,000,000 means .06% of the population died from COVID in one year; when was the last episode of the common flu that produced that kind of number?
Maybe we should trust the experts and not random people on some random Internet forum. That's precisely the problem with the world right now. Hey, I saw a guy who said xyz. I watched a YouTube video that said there's a pedophile ring underneath a pizza place.
https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/blog/how- … an-the-flu
COVID is 10x more deadly than the flu. There is no vaccine and no immunity to it. As the link indicates, the number of individuals who could have a deadly case of COVID is everybody in the world versus a subset of individuals in the case of the flu.
"Your comment is irrelevant re covid, as it common to all infectious diseases.
Your ability to cite an instance in which a child has the flu is also irrelevant. Instances of children contracting a cold or flu are hardly a "Stop the presses!" event. I think we may also be forgiven if we are unsurprised when you confide that a child with a cold or flu experiences some discomfort."
Blueheron, are you sure you attached your reply to the right comment? I went back and read my comment, and your reply doesn't relate to anything I said. I didn't mention flu in my comment nor did I cite statistics. Were you replying to me or Kathryn?
I wear it even in a barbers to avoid being a victim.
Thank You! ... You wear a mask around other people
to avoid being a victim of asymptomatic carriers who might splash a microbe into you somehow.
Those are the ones you are protecting yourself from.
I can't stand it when people say they are protecting others. Unless they know FOR SURE that they are asymptomatic carriers.
I don't know whether I carry the CV19 microbe in my bloodstream or not, (and seriously doubt if I do,) so I wear a mask to protect myself.
Thank you, Mr. M.
Maybe we should require masks of different colors.
Red for asymptomatic carriers who test positive. (No one I know)
Yellow for untested individuals. (Me)
Hot Pink for those who know they are carriers and have symptoms. (The folks in the interview)
Somehow, you still don't seem to understand why to wear a mask. It's much less about protecting yourself than about not spreading COVID to others given the numbers of asymptomatic carriers.
I don't think I'm a carrier. And there's no proof. But if I'm near you, it's more likely, in my mind, that YOU have the germ. I need to protect myself from you.
It's all in the mindset. Do you have the germ in your bloodstream for sure? Would you be wearing a yellow mask or a red mask?
I'm assuming you don't require a hot pink mask ...
When a surgeon wears a mask, is she protecting herself from the patient?
Yes. Because the patient is in a vulnerable position: The surgeon will be standing over/near the patient's mouth and the patient's health is compromised in some way.
Are you in a vulnerable position when I am standing next to you?
No, because I am not sick and have not been exposed to covid 19 ...
(as far as I know, but just in case, I have to wear a mask?
Apparently waiters don't like masks, so perhaps we should follow the lead of waiters and stop wearing them.
If a great number of COVID positive people are asymptomatic, then there are many who are not aware they are infected. You could easily be infected right now and be asymptomatic. Given that more COVID infected people are asymptomatic than symptomatic, it makes sense for everyone to wear masks to be safe while in contact with others.
Given how things are going though, I see no reason for you or anyone else to wear a mask any longer. There are simply too many people who refuse to wear a mask, so we're just going to have to see how it goes. Many old people will die. Many compromised people will die. That's just how it's going to be.
I do have two friends who have cancer right now. I suspect they will die in this new world we're going to live in.
Black or white for those who were free of the virus? Those it make more sense?
... okay, I will consider your suggestion. Please indicate which one you recommend: black or white for those currently testing negative?
How often should they get tested, do you advise?
Also, should those who get vaccinated have some other color? ... say, orange?
... or will they be excused from wearing a mask.
That sounds like a dumb question... but how do we know the antibodies will do their job long-term?
I do believe we need to wear our appropriately colored masks until everyone tests negative for at least a year.
You are welcome.
PS I had already chosen these colors, but we can adjust them in this initial stage of establishing the mask-requirement guidelines:
Yellow: Not tested, asymptomatic.
Red: Tested positive, asymptomatic.
Hot Pink: I should be home under quarantine because I have symptoms and I test positive.
Light blue: Tested negative, have antibodies.
Purple: Tested negative, do not have antibodies.
... also asymptomatic people who have the microbe in their blood stream should be shipped to Venus ASAP, where signs of life have been recently discovered, so I do not have to wear a mask.
oh wait ... I might test positive someday.
Darn, I don't want to go to Venus.
Mask it is.
How many asymptomatic non-carriers are there?
The majority of people?
Best I could find:
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/09/who … -covid-19/
Tucker Carlson just aired a Chinese woman with credentials who proclaimed she knew that the germ was one which originated as an animal-spread germ, but was altered to spread to humans. The Communist Government lab created it and let it out purposefully. If true, this changes everything. It is not a natural germ and it is hard to fight in natural ways.
I will protect myself by wearing a mask and taking showers and wearing clean clothes and maybe even gloves now ...
to protect myself.
All people in gathering places and events should be wearing color-coded masks or not allowed to enter/participate.
They need to protect themselves, first ...
and then each other through communicating their current status:
Yellow: Not tested, asymptomatic.
Red: Tested positive, asymptomatic.
Hot Pink: I should be home under quarantine because I have symptoms and I test positive.
Light blue: Tested negative, have antibodies.
Purple: Tested negative, do not have antibodies.
Speaking of science, this will prove to be just another nail in Trump campaign's coffin, but an astonishing "nail", all the same.
https://news.yahoo.com/scientific-ameri … 08739.html
But from the Trump fan base, these people are just "eggheads", what do they know?
Climate change is a theory generated by one person, (who worked at JPL in Pasadena,) who published the data way back in the seventies. Those who believe in climate change accepted this data, (all these years,) without question because it served a political narrative.
What a crock! From your link: "because President Trump’s well-documented rejection of science, from climate change to the coronavirus, has cost tens of thousands of American lives."
All Trump did was be the first to limit travel. Then provided a hospital ship. And pressured companies to re-tool to manufacture ventilators. Then pressured governors for social distancing and business shutdown. All while doing what HE could to get a vaccine and a cure. This has cost "tens of thousands of American lives" - can there be a bigger lie from the left?
If lies are nails then Trump's coffin was already sealed, long ago, when they lied about him colluding with Putin to fix the election.
Nobody said Trump colluded with Putin. They said his campaign colluded with Russia. This was proven in a bipartisan report. Paul Manafort worked with a Russian intelligence agent. Nobody cares.
He accuses Biden of being a pedophile while pictures of Trump with Jeffrey Epstein abound.
And Trump always plays both sides of every issue so he has a way out, but his disregard for climate change and for basic science is on record. His rallies and disdain for masks are but a tiny example. He's questioned whether vaccines work.
https://www.immunizationinfo.com/trumps … ion-study/
Talk about an alternate reality.
The Senate Intelligence Committee, of which Rubio, Cotton, and Sasse sit on, issued the report that confirmed that Manafort, while Trump's Campaign Chairman, definitely coordinated with Russian Intelligence.
In this election, wondering how you explain Giuliani, Trump's personal attorney, traveling to Ukraine to meet with Andrii Derkach to get information on Biden. Trump's own Treasury Department officially declared Derkach a member of Russian Intelligence. Giuliani then provided that information to Johnson and Grassley in the Senate. In essense, Trump and his GOP allies are accepting Russian assistance in this election - Again!
Trump limited travel - after the virus was already here, and only to Chinese nationals. Some 40,000 people arrived from China after that ban. He then waited another six weeks before banning travel from Europe, rolling out those changes before airports were ready to handle them. Trump pressured Governors for social distancing and shutdowns? Are you actually kidding? Trump has fought against both of those things openly. Even still, Trump's rallies ignore social distancing and he did pressure southern states to open before the data said it was safe - causing a huge spike in cases.
Keep your shirt on, Wilderness.
I am just pointed out that America's renown science publication has taken a step that it has not since its founding. Why do you think these "eggheads" would go so far as involve themselves by making such an endorsement? Are they all under the spell of the left?
Right wingers are so tiresome with their endless excuses. Trump is a buffoon, you should have backed another horse from the beginning.
The slippery eel that you support won't get away, not this time....
This is why Biden does not need to campaign. Every day, including Wednesday, Trump displays his complete lack of fitness to be the leader of our country.
This is just a thought Valeant, not a rebuttal of your meme or defense of Pres. Trump's statements.
I have constantly heard that wearing a mask is so important because it protects others from the mask wearer's possible infectious exhalations.
I can agree with Redfield's first statement, but can't reconcile the claimed reason for wearing a mask with his second statement as being more protective of him than a vaccine.
Putting aside the president's thoughts about him misspeaking, what do you think about Redfield's statement? Is the CDC director now changing the purpose of wearing a mask?
Valid question. I think his point in that quote was that the vaccine doesn't always take in some people (anywhere from 2-10%).
I think he misspoke. I think his intention was to emphasize the benefit of mask-wearing relative to reducing the spread of COVID.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administra … -a-vaccine
I think we're both right, because he ends with noting how mask wearing could end the spread in a matter of weeks if people actually bought into the preventative measure.
“I’ve talked to enough of them (Trump supporters) over the last few days. I’m exhausted, I’m exasperated. You know, at this point, it’s like, save who you can save. Because there’s only so much you can do, there’s only so much you can say. The fact that we have to literally beg people to wear a mask to save their own dumb a-- from getting sick, I’m sorry. To me, it is beyond the imagination... I am just so exhausted with this president. At this point, in the face of what's happening on collage campuses right now as we turn into fall... We all knew this was coming and yet this administration has done jack about it. This president stands in a podium today and not only contradicts his CDC director, buy basically said he perjured himself under oath before Congress because he is saying something different from Donald Trump. The CDC director is telling us the truth and Donald Trump is literally lying to us. And yet, 40% of the country looks at it and goes "Yeah, Im with stupid."
-Ex-Republican National Committee Chair Michael Steele
by crankalicious 13 months ago
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