This is the kind of stuff that has me worried about COVID-19

1. 79

   Credence2posted 3 years ago

   https://news.yahoo.com/symptoms-covid-1 … 57021.html
   
   What the hell are we going to do guys?
   
   This is not the common cold or something that will just blow over, the recurring and lasting effects should concern all of us.

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   1. 91

      Nathanvilleposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yep the ‘Long Haulers’:  Something which doesn’t just affect the elderly but also young people (and even children); and more people suffer this than actual death from Covid-19. 
      
      So creating awareness of this infliction of Covid-19 to Americans who are dismisses of pandemic is a good starting point.

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   2. 81

      peterstreepposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      What worries me the most about COVID is not these cases. As the symptoms of COVID are diverse.
      But it is the permanent change in the society that worries me. Te mask is probably here to stay. An health app is not far away off. I can easily imagine a scenario in which you have to show you are disease free on your app before entering a mall...
      People who had COVID could well be discriminated against during job interviews.
      The cultural sector is fallen to pieces with millions of jobs lost. Protests are not possible, concerts are not possible. Of course church happenings are!
      I fear that most casualties are not the people who got struck by the virus, but the hundreds of thousands of people who will die unnecessarily from cancer as it was discovered too late as COVID got priorities...and other negligence of the healthcare
      Or the thousands of people who have less income and probably start a less healthier life because of it. The so called "collateral damage" that's what worries me most.

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   3. 60

      TessSchlesingerposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Canadian research shows that 75% of people who get it have long term, probably permanent damage afterwards. They have lung scaring, heart damage, kidney and liver damage.
      
      The pandemic is expected to carry on until at least 2022 (according to WHO and other international authorities).
      
      In South Africa, we reached peak a few months ago and have been steadily getting fewer and fewer infections, but government has told us we will be wearing masks (mandatory) for a very, very long time.
      
      There's now a fine of ZAR 20,000 (about $1200) if you care caught outside of your home without a mask, and it's still legal that if you are caught outside your home while infected, you will be jailed and charged with murder.
      
      Our borders are now finally open, but international travel is very, very expensive. Nothing is open after 10 in the evening, and no pubs, clubs, etc. are permitted to operate.
      
      So this is the way we will be living for a long while.

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2. 79

   Credence2posted 3 years ago

   Arthur and Peter,
   
   I get nervous because so much of this reminds me of the herpes and aids scares of the late 1970's enough to the point that I had to be more discerning about my dating habits.
   
   I think that we all are going to get it in some form, it seems inevitable. The mask will be the new normal. My wife and I will continue to wear them as vaccines are uncertain as to their reliability and we can ill afford to make mistakes.
   
   I believe it is possible to maintain commerce and reduce the virus spread if precautions associated with the "new normal" are willingly embraced and not ignored and resisted by so many here.
   
   It is the way, it is with everything else those that have the least are going to get screwed the fastest and the mostest. The need for survival will as always make them the most
   vulnerable.
   
   This is a virulent bug, and these little invaders only become more efficient with time.
   
   There is a ridiculous "macho" conatation associated with the idea that REAL MEN that don't wear masks.

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   1. 91

      Nathanvilleposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yes in the USA mask wearing has unfortunately been politicised; which with such a contagious and deadly disease is costing lives.
      
      It’s not inevitable that everyone will get the virus; only 10% of Americans have had the virus so far, and only 7% in the UK; so in spite of Trump wanting to encourage ‘herd immunity’ there is hope if most people like yourself continues to be cautious and follow the advice of the CDC.
      
      Like you I and my family wear our masks, and we diligently follow all the ‘rules’ imposed by the UK Government.
      
      However we are more hopeful of a vaccine; and a start to a return to normality in the UK in the spring. 
      
      I appreciate that a vaccine is not going to be a quick solution in America because the USA has such a large population and the Federal Government has only placed advanced orders in total of just 300 million doses (being manufactured during the trials, so they are ready as soon as the vaccines are approved) from just 3 of Companies developing the vaccines e.g. 100 million doses from each (and most of the vaccines being developed requires two doses per person).  So when the first vaccine gets approval, which might not be until early next year at the earliest, the USA initially will only have enough to vaccinate 50 million Americans e.g. key workers and front line workers (doctors and nurses etc.)  Then it’s going to take time to scale up production to meet world demand, with all major countries except China, Russia and the USA having signed an International agreement for the subsequent supply of vaccines to distributed around the world equitably (to rich and poor countries alike); so it will be at least another year to 18 months before the USA has enough vaccines to vaccinate the whole of the American population.
      
      The situation is slightly different in the UK.  The British Government has placed advanced orders for 380 million doses, from six of the Companies developing the vaccines (edging its bet); enough to vaccinate the entire British population several times over.  So as soon as a vaccine is approved (assuming its one of the six the UK Government has placed advanced orders with), the UK via the NHS will have enough vaccine, and the resources, to vaccinate the whole population within a couple of months.  Albeit the UK Government has also pledged that any surplus vaccines leftover will be donated to the third world (poor countries).

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         wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         Not following your analysis of the vaccine in the US.  300 million doses is enough to provide one dose for every person that can take it (leave out the very young, the sick and very elderly), meaning half the country can have two doses...plus whatever can be made between doses.  Not 1/6th of the nation. 
         
         Then you say the US is not a signatory to the plan to give away what their own people need, that it will take another 18 months to vaccinate Americans because they will give away what the US needs. 
         
         In addition, the UK DID sign the agreement to give vaccines to "rich and poor countries alike", meaning they will give to America...but all their excess will go to poor countries, with nothing for needy but rich nations.
         
         As written it doesn't seem to make sense.

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         1. 91

            Nathanvilleposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Based on information I had in August, you may be right on your first point if:-
            
            •    All three vaccines that the USA have placed advanced orders for are ‘Approved’; no guarantee of that yet.
            
            •    Assuming all three vaccines are given ‘Approval’ early next year; a couple might be, but no guarantee that all three will be.
            
            If only two of the vaccines are approved early next year e.g. 200 million doses (enough to treat 100 million people), one vaccine may be better than another!!!  So it may be that there is only enough, initially, to vaccinate the front line workers, key workers, and those most as risk. 
            
            Caveat:  on double checking; my source data for the above is almost two months old, so it may be that since then the USA has managed to secure more pre-orders?  It’s a very fluid situation, and a lot of misinformation and information quickly becomes out of date.  Whether a more reliable source such as the CDC has up to date information on the USA ‘pre-orders’ for vaccines?  One interesting point, according to some normally reliable sources:  “Prices in advance purchase deals vary considerably according to what is in the agreement” e.g. wealthier countries maybe being charged more for the vaccine than less wealthy countries?
            
            On the second point, I didn’t describe what I was trying to say very well; so for clarity (hopefully):-
            
            Various wealthy countries, including the USA & UK, have placed advanced orders for vaccines, which means that those vaccine doses are being manufactured in advance, being manufactured during phase 3 trials, before ‘Approval’ e.g. taking a ‘gamble’ that ‘Approval’ will be given; which means that once approval is given those countries get their advanced orders without due delay.
            
            That is significant in that once a vaccine gets approval it will take time to scale up production and satisfy world demand; world population is almost 8 billion.  So once a county has had its ‘advanced order’ there is going to be a long waiting list to get further doses.
            
            The last point, I’ll try to clarify as well:-
            
            The pandemic is a worldwide issue and once vaccines are approved, it’s going to take time to scale up production to vaccinate the whole world, and the poor countries (who need the vaccine just as much as the wealthy counties) are going to be disadvantaged, and are not going to be able to afford what they need.
            
            The three big countries, Russia, China and the USA are all going to need whatever vaccines they can lay their hands on; therefore it’s not in their interest to share e.g. demand will outstrip supply in the first year or two of mass production of whichever vaccines are approved.
            
            The wealthy countries, including the UK & USA have pre-ordered 2 billion doses between them; leaving the poorer countries out in the cold; albeit the UK has pledged to donate what it doesn’t need to the third world.  While other, less wealthy countries, via the WHO Covax scheme are clubbing together to buy and distribute whatever vaccine doses they can get equitably.
            
            I don’t have comprehensive knowledge in this area (I’m no expert here), and I haven’t had the time to delve into it as I normally would on a topic of interest.  So there may be important factors that I’ve missed, or are outdated, that put a different perspective on this; but maybe it highlights some areas of concern that might be worth investigating further, for reassurance?
            
            So if you find more up-to-date information, from reliable sources, I would be interested.
            
            Below is data (predominantly from Wikipedia) that I compiled about a month ago; it may not be a complete list, but it does give some indication of progress being made e.g. vaccines need to complete phase III successfully before ‘Approval’ can be considered.  As far as I’m aware the USA has a pre-order with the ‘Oxford’ vaccine (which looks a promising vaccine).
            
            
            

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               wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               I see.  Your distribution of US vaccines to US citizens is based on 3 possibilities, rather than one, and any or all of them could be failures, which would leave the country far, far short of what it needs.  Meanwhile the UK has put all it's eggs in one basket, pre-ordering only one vaccine with the assumption that it will work.  Or have they pre-ordered several different vaccines, all more than sufficient to cover the country?  Have they pre-ordered 3 times what is necessary to vaccinate all Brits, in case one doesn't work?
               
               As far as giving away vaccines, your statement was that the UK has agreed with other countries to give to the "rich and poor countries" alike, yet here again you say it will be only to the poor.  That if richer countries fail to provide for their own needs the people will be allowed to die without help from the UK.  Has the UK agreed to help all, or just a hand picked portion of the world?

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               1. 91

                  Nathanvilleposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  I’ve obviously not worded things well, and I'm not trying to have a dig at the USA, I'm just trying to convey what little information I have:-
                  
                  •    The UK’s order is spread over 6 suppliers.
                  
                  •    No the UK has not participated in the WHO Covax scheme, it, along with the USA is acting alone (looking after its own interests first); albeit, any vaccine the UK has spare the UK has pledged to donate to poor countries.
                  
                  The WHO Covax scheme is where currently 152 countries (as at 21st September), including the EU, will finance the purchase of 2 billion vaccines to be distributed around the world equitably by the end of 2021, including to poor countries.
                  
                  The UK government has placed pre-orders of 340 million doses of vaccines from six companies, as follows:-
                  
                  •    100 million doses of the Oxford University, England vaccine
                  •    30 million doses from Janssen
                  •    30 million doses from BioNTech/Pfizer
                  •    60 million doses from GSK/Sanofi Pasteur
                  •    60 million doses from Novavax
                  •    60 million doses from Valneva
                  
                  I know the USA has made pre-orders for the Oxford vaccine and for the Pfizer vaccine (two vaccines that look promising), but I don’t have the full and up to date list of all USA pre-orders; whether that information is somewhere in the CDC website?
                  
                  With any luck we might get a better idea of the state of play by Christmas, if not, then most probably early in the New Year!

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                  1. 91

                     Nathanvilleposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                     The UK’s priority for vaccination is to vaccinate first:-
                     
                     •    Frontline workers e.g. medical staff
                     •    Everyone over 50
                     •    Everyone in high risk groups

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   2. 81

      peterstreepposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Fear is what many of us feel. Fear to get “it”.  But Fear is what we have to fear (didn’t Roosevelt say something like it..) Fear is the friend of dictatorships and also ordinary governments alike. As in times of crises, governments use the fear of the people to make laws to controll them. (Look at the Patriot act of Bush- easier telephone tapping etc. And the US is not he only western country who misused 9/11 ).
      Today more then ever we have to be alert in the west, not to loose the freedom of protests and criticism etc. 
      Fear is made by not knowing. The lack of proper knowledge and the power of fake news and conspiracy theories, the anti science attitude helps governments to keep the people insecure and ignorant.
      Knowing that you can’t get AIDS by kissing or hugging a person changes a lot. But I remember too, in the beginning all those ignorant stories of how you could get AIDS.
      Same with Covid. Knowledge is freedom. Knowing that the chances are slim to get “it” in the open air, gives you more freedom. The more testing is done and the more we know who had it or not, the more freedom we gain.
      Knowledge is power is the classic saying. But the knowledge should be in the public domain, not only at the elites.
      This bug will go, but the “new normality” will probably linger in one form or another. A sad thing and a dangerous one.
      And yes, COVID does not treat the rich and the poor the same way. That’s a complete nonsense story.

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3. 75

   Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago

   There is a dozen greater killers than covid19. Why don't we lock down the world over them?

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