A immunity vs.Vaccines challenge. Who dares?

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  1. Castlepaloma profile image76
    Castlepalomaposted 13 months ago

    A 5 year Challenge. Since all my prediction on hubpage have all come true the last 10 years.
    Why not?
    Give your reasons and why you will win?
    If I loose I will build you a rocket stove or a tiny house or anything in aircrete you want.
    Ask nothing in return, unless you want to, because you know you will win.

    Castlepaloma 5 years.
    1. I won't wear a mask longer than 10 minutes (because I sculpt.)
    2. Won't take a covid vaccine ever. My reliance is on my healthy living lifestyle and natural immunity system.

    Challenger 5 years
    1. Must wear mask recommended or required
    2. Must be vaccinated recommended or require times your Government corporation wants. You take your few shots every year and don't change your health conditions.

    My reason for motivation and win.

    1. In Canada I got 30 times greater chance of catching death by flu than death of covid in total risk factor numbers in my lifetime.
    2. Most people got the flu shot had caught the flu most years after year. Me flu once and flu shots had once. Same will happen for covid vaccines.
    3. I know the legal system and human rights to my health.
    4. Win in financial, and win in relationships.
    5. Win in getting the rest of my freedoms back. Win in Happiness and balance.
    6. Can't loose.
    Even if I get caught with covid, still have a 99.98 chance of survival. If I am wrong, there is a chance we'll be living agenda 21.

    First one to catch covid, looses. Or breaking a rule, looses.
    Add a rule if you like?

    Nathanville are you up for this challenge?

    1. Castlepaloma profile image76
      Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Chicken little come out to play
      Laws of only 2 another scary day
      NWO frightened you & dose it pay
      Masks of freedom, stop what we say

      1. Castlepaloma profile image76
        Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        I keep writing corny poems.
        Untill someone can walk their talk.
        Or are you just chickens again? .

      2. Miebakagh57 profile image69
        Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Castlepaloma, FYI Nathanville is no Chichen little to 'play' pinocchio given to lies, conspiracies theories, and unsound academics, and unsound scientific methods with you.                                                    Again  FYI, I had not taken a flu shot once in my life, nor any of my six childrens. So if my immune system is sound, and my childrens genes copy same, and we also could get the covid jab, what is that to throw out a foolish challenge?.                                        Castlepaloma(chicken little), play, not build sand castle in the air for us.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image76
          Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          The high academics are the most brainwashed and programed in the world. Their jobs dependent on the elitist owners who own them.

          Me, I'm free as a bird. Huge crowds watch me build sandcastles worldwide. They often ask for what is my real job is, often lawyers who think I should do it for free.
          I say, this is my real job. It more real to me, than the 80% who do not like their job for most waking hours of their lives. I just can't live a lie.

          What's worst is following public servants who have the least satisfaction jobs in the world. I'm the king of my own domain. No need to sheep or cow down to the world champion liars and slave owners on the planet.

          These fake vaccines is just another control for elites owner to have more slaves. Much like through out human history. When man messes with nature, the results end up like flu vaccines and chemotherapy horrible results.

  2. MizBejabbers profile image85
    MizBejabbersposted 13 months ago

    You can taunt all you want, but the problem is that if you lose, you may really lose (your life).

    My husband is a covid long-hauler, and he chose to get the vaccine rather than risk going through another bout of covid. I certainly don't criticize him for it. I think you have the freedom to choose and I respect your choice, but I don't think you should use this as a platform to push other people into allowing you to make their choices for them. You could influence someone or many someones into losing their lives when it could have been prevented.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image76
      Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      It's a matter of time for all the people who will clearly see the damage overall greater vs the one disease like a nasty flu.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image76
        Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Only one person has ever been executed for treason against the federal government: William Bruce Mumford, who was convicted of treason and hanged in 1862 for tearing down a United States flag during the American Civil War.

        Yet a President kills millions of people and carries a nobel peace prize. That is why I don't play along, to get along. I have my own family community with trade and self serve share. Would love to share here, yet my guess is. That the majority still have not had enough abuse from the State and their slave masters.

      2. lobobrandon profile image89
        lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Do you not have a television in the country you live in? Nasty flu. Hilarious.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image76
          Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          In my lifetime in Canada, i got 30 times greater chance of dieing from flu than covid.

          I haven't own a TV in 12 years. Its why I'm not deeply programed like most people.

          1. lobobrandon profile image89
            lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            I have not had a TV in 10 either, what I meant was have you not being seeing the news. What happened in Brazil and now India and what would have very likely happened in the US if Biden had not won.

            Yes, I will probably not die of it, but I will be taking the vaccine so that I do not pass it on to someone else. That is what it means to live in a society. But to each his or her own.

            But it is not just a nasty flu for many people.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image76
              Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              You are free to do anything you want to with your own body. Yet when people are held hostage if they don't agree on taking on a vaccines passport to travel, work, shop and most other freedoms. It's really about narcissistic penedemic of the 1% who are the only winners in this game. We have had many other world worst diseases through our lives and never lockdown the world over.

              1. lobobrandon profile image89
                lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                No, I do not want a disease spreader in my country, so I have all the rights to prevent you from entering. The same way I would prevent a terrorist from entering. Nathan put it down well, I do not have as much patience as him to write stuff up that is factual when I know it will just be ignored.

                1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                  Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  Then just about everyone is a terrorist because most people have far greater diseases than covid.

                  1. lobobrandon profile image89
                    lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    You do know that the EU does not allow anyone with TB to enter without getting screened right? Many other countries too. The other diseases which you are talking about do not have vaccines.

                    Polio and smallpox were eradicated through vaccines. Polio is almost gone. But good luck believing what you want and I hope you have a fun time with your challenge.

                  2. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                    Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    Castlepaloma, pray tell us how can every one be a terrorist and that includes you?                                                Yes, tell us what diseases has been greater than covid? Castlepaloma, when will you say no to drugs?

                2. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                  Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  +++++

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                    Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    According to WHO covid is not on the top ten ways to die.

                    We are vast majority made of trillions of bacteria, viruses and microorganism.
                    We have pushed Death away from Life, the dying away from the living - all in order to impose the illusion of control on the uncertainty of change. We have lost touch with the natural world and with our place in it as mortal animals. We have forgotten "how to die."

                    For every beast, dragon, war and Empire that raises and falls. Their dead bodies will be replace by green grass and among the grass, Grass Hoppers will be making love

                    As of realationship economy and freedoms.

                    Here is my speech

                    Make love love not war
                    Do your good and peace before the world is over
                    Make love not War

                    We can work it out , I never had no doubt
                    Do the right thing, cause we are always fighting
                    For heaven and hell is on earth can be back biting
                    Make love not War! isn't that more exciting

                    People have often wondered,what have I done or not done if I die. I have no Regrets for the pass only what I do not do in the future. Have no fear of death because I know how to live, just don't want to be there when it happens.

                    Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives. The terror in not in the big bang, its only in the anticipation of it.

          2. CHRIS57 profile image62
            CHRIS57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Castlepaloma, if you catch the Covid virus because you neglected vaccination and if you think you are immune then:

            Throw yourself off the cliff and take your noexisting TV set with you. But don´t get others infected. Don´t.

            This is about keeping others safe, this is not about what you do to yourself. Vaccination programs helped and help to eliminate diseases. So vaccination serves society as a whole, vaccination against a pandemic serve mankind.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image76
              Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              I disagree, poverty, lack of service that harms other health conditions and conquer and divide is the farther thing for serving society or humanity.

    2. Miebakagh57 profile image69
      Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Miz, I agree to all the points you raise, especially the last one.                                       It seems Castlepaloma don't care a thing if one is infected with covid and dies. Otherwise, why is he against mainstream medicine, medical health practitioners, and the pharmarcitical industries?

    3. Castlepaloma profile image76
      Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Nonesense, the pros vs cons of strong individuals who have healthy nature immune systems. Will almost always beat out dumb down society with weak immune systems, who are wean on a national meal like hamburger, fries and coke.

      These synthetic unhealthy products from foods to pharmaceutical are the gambling casinos of leading case of the death in the world. Pharmaceutical gone for evil to Jesus savior of the world now. They are the greatest sued corporations in the world and nobody cares because most people don't  care what gose into their bodies and think pharmaceutical knows best. These are the people who vote other world champion liars to think for them too.

      Go ahead kill yourselves, have the freedom to choose what colour of jellybeans you will eat. Or what prescription drug you love to overdose on for death. The billionaires with their world record sales right now. Will also sell you the rope to hang yourself.

      1. tsmog profile image78
        tsmogposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        ha, ha . . .

  3. Castlepaloma profile image76
    Castlepalomaposted 13 months ago

    https://youtu.be/sU305NqXT94

    It is a greater problem narcissistic panedemic than a covid one

  4. Nathanville profile image91
    Nathanvilleposted 13 months ago

    Sorry for not responding earlier, but the lockdown was lifted in the UK on Monday 17th May, and since then life has been rather hectic e.g. a friend (who we haven’t seen for 14 months) coming down to stay with us.  And yesterday taking him out for a meal in a restaurant in the countryside overlooking the Mendip Hills; the first time any of us have been out for a meal in 14 months.  And it’s going to be a busy weekend as well, so not much spare time at the moment to spend on the computer.

    Anyway, in response to your challenge, I am afraid I cannot take it up because it’s such an irresponsible challenge, and I have no interest in encouraging you in risking your life.

    FYI, in the UK, because the vaccine rollout has been so successful, over 70% of the adult population already vaccinated, the lockdown ended on the 17th May; with all restrictions such as mask wearing and social distancing to end on 21st June; after which we can live normally again (post pandemic) very much as we did before the pandemic.

    Until then (21st June), which is only four weeks away, I have no objection to wearing the mask in enclosed public spaces; and both I and my wife have now had both shots of the AstraZeneca Oxford University vaccine, and will be more than happy to take a booster next winter if required; just like the annual flu jab.

    Your 6 points:-

    Point 1:  Your mistake is comparing the accumulative risk of flu over your lifetime e.g. 50+ years with the risk of just one year from covid; that is nonsensical mathematics.  You can add up all the flu deaths in Canada for the past 50 years and so that’s 30 times greater than the number of covid deaths in the past year (that is just complete nonsense).  For a comparison of current risk you need to compare covid data with just one year’s data of flu.

    Point 2:  We are not talking about flu, we are talking about covid.  FYI the flu vaccines have never been as protective as the covid vaccine e.g. at best flu vaccines have been little more than 60% effective, whereas the covid vaccines are over 90% effective.

    Besides, the covid vaccine is not designed to prevent you from getting covid, it is designed to prevent you from being hospitalised by covid, and dying from covid; and the covid vaccines have proven to be extremely effective at preventing hospitalisations and deaths from covid.

    3.  Vaccinations are not mandatory.

    4.  What has finances got to do with it when (at least in the UK) vaccinations, prescriptions and medical treatment are all FREE at the point of use.  And it’s not a win if you become seriously ill or day from covid.

    5.  We win in the UK in getting our freedom back because of the successful vaccination programme; in countries that can’t reach herd immunity because too many people refuse the vaccine, then controlling the pandemic, and getting your freedom back, becomes far more difficult; especially if people keep spreading the virus because they refuse to wear masks and social distance.

    6.  Yes you can lose; you can die from covid, or suffer long term illness from it ‘Covid Long Hauler’.

    Nope, if you get covid the odds of dying from it isn’t 0.02%, the odds of death is close to 1%.  The odds of getting Covid Long Haul illness is about 10%.

    It’s not a question of the “first one to catch covid loses”; that’s just childish.  Anyway, the vaccines do not give absolute protection against catching covid; but what the vaccine does do is give you near absolute certainty that you will not become seriously ill from covid, or die from covid.   And as it turns out from the evidence, having the vaccine does also reduce the risk of infection and passing it onto others, which also helps with the herd immunity.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image76
      Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Spanish flu – had killed between 50 million and 100 million people, several times more than had lost their lives in the soon-to-be-concluded War to End All Wars.
      The second world war or flu did not lockdown the whole entire world with far less population.  Covid 3.5 million died. No matter how you spin it, i had 30 times greater chance of dieing from flu than covid in my lifetime. Flu Vaccines would harm me( that I avoided) , just like covid will in the future. Give covid time after many more waves, mutations, and strains. Give pharmaceutical, state and your owners again. When they set world record of suicide, isolated, poverty, unemployment, so on and so on, over vaccines, its mandatory, just under a false names.


      Give them the proof they are the true world  champion of BS and false promises . Your extremely narsassitic leaders are complete Nonsense, fake numbers and stats. Please think and feel for your self, your better off.

      Selling holistic and healthy foods and lifestyles. Makes our health nut community, about the safest place you could imagine. With very little risk because of no mask, no vaccines, lots of loving hugs, happy work and loving family team of free trade and sharing.

      London england had the largest covid and lockdown protest in the world. Among a 100 countries, the largest freedom protests ever in human history. Just because brainwash and deeply programs academics can't see it. Doesn't make their onesided veiw and fears of reality, real.

      Numbers are incorrect. Yet your estimate odds of death is close to 1%.  The odds of getting Covid Long Haul illness is about 10%.

      I agree some what, the planedemic pharmaceutical vaccines and states love to make a killing many times over.

      If I break my rules, i will build you a free house. If you don't first.

      1. lobobrandon profile image89
        lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        I agree, the numbers are incorrect. In India for example the deaths due to Covid are as low as 10 times the reported figures and as high as who knows what. Narcissistic governments and governments (BJP) who are a political branch of an ideology (RSS) formulated on the lines of the Nazis cannot deliver much other than death and destruction. For once I agree with what you have said. The same goes for Brazil and as I said earlier, if it were Trump in the US the same would have happened during their second wave which would have continued rising after Jan.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image76
          Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          The lockdown kill more than the covid. Other countries who have not had lockdown have better covid death rates or at par. Canada is one of the most lockdown countries in the world. Many places you go out of your county or protest one can get from $2000 to $5000 fines.

          Canada per capita has three times the death rate than India , plus well over a hundreds other countries.

          Its all fear mongering for the wealthy profits and still escaping the US dollar and their global collapse.

      2. Nathanville profile image91
        Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Spanish flu is historic, we have to deal with issues as they are now; and the fact remains that we are currently faced with a virus that is 3 times more infectious than the flu and 6 times more deadly; hence the need to take action to limit its spread and protect vulnerable people from the virus.

        Yes, Covid has killed 3.5 million people; and it doesn’t matter what you say, to me 3.5 million deaths so far (and rising) is a high death toll; and the death toll would have been far higher if we hadn’t had the lockdowns, and other measures to reduce the spread of the virus e.g. masks and social distancing, until such time that an effective vaccine could be rolled-out.

        You’re just blind to it because the pandemic hasn’t (as yet) swept across Canada as it has other countries around the world.  If the Indian variant strain reached your community, you might be singing a different tune!

        FYI, contrary to your claim covid has NOT caused an increase in suicides in the UK; and as confirmed this week, covid has not caused high unemployment in the UK either.  So you should do your research and be more specific when making such bold claims.

        FYI, contrary to expectations, UK suicide rates have not increased during the pandemic; but on closer examination, while UK suicides increased during the financial crisis of 2008, UK suicides actually fell during both world wars; which researchers have suggested is the effect of a “genuine social cohesion effect at the time of external crisis”; in other words the famous British “wartime spirit”.

        And in the UK, people who couldn’t work during the lockdown had 80% of their wages paid for by the Government; which meant that those employers who have survived the lockdowns didn’t need to make their employees redundant.  And now that the lockdown has come to an end, and the economy is bouncing back, unemployment is no higher now that it was pre-pandemic.

        FYI, our Leaders are not narcissistic.  In the UK we have four leaders (with opposing politics) independently of each other deciding on how to tackle the covid pandemic; they are:-

        •    England:  Prime Minister Boris Johnson (Conservative Government); Capitalism e.g. right wing politics.
        •    Scotland:  Frist Minister Nicola Sturgeon (SNP Party) Socialism e.g. left wing politics.
        •    Northern Ireland (DUP Party); extreme right wing politics
        •    Wales (Labour Party); Socialism e.g. left wing politics.

        The Leaders for Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland were all elected/re-elected in the elections earlier this month.

        FYI, I know the numbers and stats for the UK are reliable; not only was I a civil servant, so that I know from the inside how British Governments work, but in the UK the ONS (Office of National Statistics) is a government department that’s independent of the government and only answerable to Parliament specifically so that their data cannot be falsified by or tampered with by the Government.  Plus, as I’ve explained many, many times to you and others now; in the UK all the covid related deaths are tripled checked from different sources, and by different bodies; as follows:-

        1.    The NHS records all the deaths they deal with e.g. a bed count (of all those who die within 28 days from testing positive); Data published daily.

        2.    All deaths are counted where the Doctor has mentioned covid on the death certificate (regardless to whether they died in hospital or not, and regardless to whether they were tested for covid or not e.g. died at home with covid symptoms); Data published weekly.

        3.    The ONS (Office of National Statistics) publish the number of excess deaths each month in comparison to the five year average for deaths in the previous five years:

        The key point is, is that all three methods of estimating total covid deaths, although not identical are always similar to each other; giving assurance that the data is accurate and reasonable. 

        Holistic and healthy foods and lifestyles is part of the strategy of the NHS (National Health Service) in the UK, and their advice is FREE.  So you don’t have a monopoly on healthy living.

        The only reason that your community is safe at the moment is that the pandemic hasn’t spread there yet e.g. not everywhere in the world is suffering from the pandemic at the same time, and some places gets hit harder than others; it comes in waves from wherever the epicentres are e.g. spreads out.  It’s the same in the UK, we have our ‘hot spots’ where the virus spreads like wildfire e.g. parts of northern England; then other parts (such as the South West) (where I live), where the pandemic hasn’t hit so hard.

        You are wrong; you need to do a lot more research, because FYI, and contrary to your false claims (wherever you got them from) London, England has NOT had the largest covid and lockdown protests in the world (that is a complete lie); FYI the protests in London have been few, short lived and small by international standards; such protests have been larger and more prolonged in other countries across Europe; and even those have been small and short lived compared to the protests in the USA.  It’s just another example of where you are so sloppy in ‘fact-checking’ e.g. you only take note of what you want to believe, while ignoring everything else that contradicts your belief.

        Nope:  The numbers are correct; covid deaths is close to 1%, which is why we’ve had over 100,000 deaths in the UK, and half a million deaths in the USA.  Also, the 10% estimate for long term illness from covid is no exaggeration; that’s why the NHS (National Health Service) last December set up over 60 ‘Long Covid Clinics) across the UK to treat people suffering from ‘Long Covid Illness’; currently there are about 1.1 million people in the UK suffering from ‘Long Covid Illness’ (the Covid Long Haulers); and one of our friends is one those people.

        As I said originally, I am not playing your silly game of ‘dare me’ (challenge) because you are playing with your own life; and I don’t want to be encouraging you to risk your life for a silly bet; that is just childish/immature.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image76
          Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          From having 45 years of world wide fame and 10s of million of fans including dealing with top world leaders and international institutions. Actually made me Narcissistic for half my adult life. Like a Dark Vader yet back to my Luke Skywalker self now. so I know the game being played out right now. I'm childlike not childish or selfish. I'm a senior and worldly, not immature. I know my weaknesses and strengths. Do you?

          England having the world's  largest lockdown protests that has change UK to open up. Not the works of the leaders or fake vaccines

          UK Covid-related cybercrime fuels 15-fold rise in scam takedowns. Vaccine rollout used as a lure via email and text to harvest people’s personal information for fraud

          PA Media agency has taken down more scams in the last year than in the previous three years combined, with coronavirus and NHS-themed cybercrime fuelling the increase.

          Experts oversaw a 15-fold rise in the removal of online campaigns compared with 2019, according to the National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC). Covid-19 vaccine rollout used as a lure via email and text message to harvest people’s personal information for fraud.“The big increase in Covid-19-related scams, fake vaccine shops, fake PPE shops, show – to me anyway – that criminals have no bounds on what they will abuse and the fear that they engender to try and harm and defraud people,” Dr Ian Levy, the technical director of the NCSC told reporters.

          Pro vaxxer, keep telling me Canada is safest place for covid, so I don't know what happening around the world. Canada per capita has three times more covid deaths than India. We are in a communist control lockdown greater than anyone has ever known. Including my experience touring in the USSR in the 70s and 80s as an athlete.
          Covid is 1/80nd of the danger of all other viruses and diseases we too often ignore. Our freedom and economy is not wroth the price of fake safety of the most corrupted institutions in the world. Just over our lifetime of a nasty flu Turned into a world order covid abnormal.

          1. Nathanville profile image91
            Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            You are talking such crap, that it doesn't even warrant an answer; are you sure you're not on drugs?

            For example, just taking your 2nd paragraph:  England has NOT had the the world's largest lockdown protests; that is just pure lies that you are spreading; wherever you got such crap from; or did you just make it up.

            And the reason the UK has opened up is because the vaccine programme has worked so that instead of over a 1,000 deaths a day, we're now down to just single daily figures, and falling by the week.  I can verify it as being factual because I live here and have seen it with my own eyes; but you don't want to accept the truth because it's contrary to your twisted false 'rabbit hole' beliefs.

            1. lobobrandon profile image89
              lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              This is the very reason I said, I wasn't as patient or as motivated as you to provide an answer because there is no point. Just a waste of time. Let him have his challenge.

              1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                Lobobrandon, you're welcome. That's the very reason I reply to Castlepaloma thread ONCE. I then pray Nathanville to ignored him.                                       Ca'a  or "that man whose user name began with Ca and ends in a, as Nathanville described him is always on marijauna. Being drug induced, he always, always distracted and contradict himself in the face of solid scientific facts.                                                That said, they's no point to argue  With Ca'a.                                       When you read through all his replies to our response, d'you see how he takes things? Does he care? I'll bite him and go.

                1. lobobrandon profile image89
                  lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  Haha

                  1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                    Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    +++++

            2. Castlepaloma profile image76
              Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              https://m.economictimes.comnews/interna … 238236.cms

              https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h … 18506.html

              https://youtu.be/NLiHY7yxtqY

              Tell me these protest are all fake. There is dozens of videos with multi media down playing them worldwide. Greatest protest i ever seen beside india protest of 250 million people against GMO food farmers, the government and Gates.

              You guys are loosers, the billionaires end game of world order is over soon enough of thousands of years of tyranny. The new world order of gurus, high technology billionaires, political religion and Gods are near over.

              We needed a death experience like covid to wake us up from the living liars.

              1. Nathanville profile image91
                Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                It might help if you tried reading English properly e.g. the headline title in the Independent (a British newspaper) is "Inside the UK’s biggest anti-lockdown protest"; the emphasis being "UK's biggest anti-lockdown".

                The point is the UK's biggest anti-lockdown was just 10,000 people in a one day; and for protests that is small not just by UK's standards, but by international standards.

                For example, in June 2019 75,000 protestors gathered in central London to protest against Trump's visit to the UK; in 1990 over 1 million people in Britain protested against the poll tax; which lead to Margaret Thatcher (British Prime Minister) resigning, and the poll tax being scrapped.

                The BLM protests in the USA were far bigger and far more sustained, lasting months.

                If that is the greatest protest you've seen then you've been blind to what's going on in the world around you e.g. ignorant of world affairs.

                Anti-lockdown protests far larger and far more sustained in USA:- https://youtu.be/AYrTp08p5Cs

                1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                  Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandem … ut-freedom

                  Europe has the most intense covid protester in the world.

                  1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                    Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    You inform it was London then, and now Europe. Do the maths. 20,000 less 10,000. What d'you get as remainder? Compare that to protests in either  Africa or Asia. Do some work again.

                  2. Nathanville profile image91
                    Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    Excuse me; that link is from VOA (Voice of America); a right wing propaganda machine.

                    Nevertheless, I read the article and most of it is propaganda; so if you believe ‘everything’ printed in the VOA, then you’ll believe any rubbish!

                    To put it simply, the article is ever exaggerating its claims:  The fact that I live in Europe/UK and I can see with my own eyes that what the magazine says is propaganda cuts no ice with you e.g. you prefer to believe propaganda in a right-wing American magazine, and ignore the eye witness accounts first hand from someone who actually lives hear:  And all just because the truth doesn’t fit in with your crackpot theories.

              2. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                'You guys are loosers'. You're on drugs!

              3. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                While you're the liar.

              4. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                Arthur, just ignored him and his many lies, or you're be spreading yourself thin.

          2. Sharlee01 profile image83
            Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

            An immunity vs. vaccine challenge...

            If one wants to get technical and look at the actual worldwide number of cases, and deaths caused by COVID 19 one would surmise the immune system is very much stronger than a Vaccine.  Consider the number of human beings we have on this planet. The last number reported shows there are 7.674 billion people in our world. The reported infection rate shows COVID has infected  167,947,142. These are reported cases, one must consider how many contracted COVID and never knew they had it or did not seek medical attention due to a positive recovery. The death rate reported shows 3,485,894 deaths that were from COVID or related to COVID.

            So I would surmise with 7.674 billion people in the world and a very virulent virus it would prove many more people in the world had very good immune systems.  The infection rate vs the death rate shows that 99.5% of people that got the virus lived.  The larger majority not even needing to be treated with medication, but rest and fluids.  Only 97,724 cases became critical and needed critical care.

            I would need to put my money on the immune system due to stats. The majority of the world citizens not only relied on their immune system but did not contact COVID, and the majority that was infected lived...  The human immune system is miraculous. Yes, a vaccine can aid one's immune system, and help in most cases prevent a virus from doing the damage it sets out to do. We need to consider the true numbers, and the fact we made it a year without a vaccine. The majority of the people on the planet had one thing going for them, and that would be their immune system.

            At the end of the day --- the immune system wins out in the case of the world making it through COVID.

            Good immund systems and the herd that has been built due to infections, and now vaccinated people we have a better handle on COVID. It is mutating trying to combat strong immune systems.  That's what viruses do. And immune systems will take a new strain and kill it as it did the very first strain of COVID 10 times over now.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image76
              Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              That's about right.

              Not feeling so alone now.

              Yet, nobody dares me.

            2. Nathanville profile image91
              Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              Sharlee, it’s not a question of relying on our immune system or a vaccine; it’s a question of the vaccine preparing the immune system in the event that we come into contact with the virus.

              Yes, the world population of over 7.67 billion; but only a minority have been exposed to the virus long enough to contract it; whether asymptomatic or symptomatic e.g. about 30% of people who get covid are asymptomatic.   

              Therefore as you said 167.9 million confirmed cases (some of which will be asymptomatic, detected during testing); but even if you did assume that most of the 168 million were symptomatic, then with the 30% asymptomatic added on, you can estimate that no more than around 224 million people have across the world have ever been exposed to covid; that about 2.9% of the world population.

              Yes the virus is highly infectious (over three times more infectious than flu); but there are parts of the world where the pandemic hasn’t yet had a major impact; Japan was an example that until very recently had very few covid cases and deaths.  And in the UK and across Europe in particular, and the USA to some extent, the spread of the virus has been limited by mask wearing, social distancing and national lockdowns etc.

              In the UK, not confirmed by just regular testing and data (statistics) compiled during the pandemic, but more importantly from a continue programme of measuring the level of anti-bodies in the population to show not only how many people have had covid, but also to determine how long the body’s own natural immune system maintains the anti-bodies after infection (both my son and a friend of ours took part in this extensive survey, and neither had anti-bodies indicating that neither have been exposed to covid; which is no surprise as both have been ‘shielding’ since the start of the pandemic.  Our son shielding for his mother’s sake e.g. because of her medical condition my wife would be as higher risk from covid than me; hence we all shielded (stayed in isolation) for the duration to protect my wife from harm.

              Anyway, the extensive data collected shows that in the UK about 6.6 million people have been exposed to the virus for long enough to become infected by Covid; of which over 127,000 have died.

              In other words, thanks to the lockdown, social distancing and mask wearing, only 10% of the British population have been exposed to covid; just think what the death toll would be if the whole population was to be exposed to covid. 

              And before you argue that only 10% of the UK population caught covid because of how good our immune system is; may I remind you that anti-bodies tests have shown that 90% of the population have not been exposed to covid e.g. even if you become exposed to covid, and show no symptoms, your body automatically makes anti-bodies to protect you against covid; the presents of the anti-bodies in your body is proof of your exposure to the virus.

              The stark fact remains that if you do come into contact with covid, statistically there is a 30% that you will have no symptoms, but conversely, there is a 10% that you will suffer long term illness, and a 1% chance of death.   Therefore, not to take the vaccine is foolish because the vaccine does reduce the risk of illness and death significantly.

              FYI:  The vaccine is NOT an alternative to your immune system; all that the vaccine does is to introduce a foreign into your body that the same shape as covid; so that it stimulates your immune system into making anti-bodies that fits the shape introduced by the vaccine (which is the same shape as the covid virus); so that within about a month after your vaccination, once your body has made enough copies of the appropriate anti-bodies, if you do happen to become exposed to covid, your body’s own immune system is prepared to fight the virus off without you even knowing about it.  That’s why with most of the vaccines you have two does; the first does primes your immune system, and the 2nd dose gives it a boost to generate even more copies of the anti-bodies.

              Because only 10% of the population in the UK have been exposed to covid, and thus have anti-bodies; there is no way to achieve herd immunity naturally without being like India or Brazil; therefore the only way to achieve herd immunity is through vaccination.  Albeit the percentage of people in the USA who have had covid is much higher than in the UK or across Europe, that percentage is still far too low for herd immunity without most of the population being vaccinated.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                Vaccines and lockdowns is on taxpayers and on our unpayabe debts. Once everyone hooked forever. Prices sky rocket like chemotherapy and pharmaceutical make a killing again. Wail virus gets worst like chemotherapy.
                Plus.
                Our UN Declaration of the inherent dignity and of the equal inalienable rights are violations like no other time in human history. Like All members of the human family are violated by quarantine orders are, the right to: 
                l. liberty
                2. Freedom of movement
                3. Freedom of religion in community with others
                4. Freedom of peaceful assembly and association
                5. Work and protection against unemployment
                6. Education
                7. Freely participate in community

                Quarantines violates every important part of my family and the human race in some way. U.N. Will not Response to serious public health threats to the “life of a nation,” human rights law allows for restrictions on some rights. They justifie it by world martial law like a war. Wail US spent more financially on covid than all their wars combined yet a faction of death compared. North America has 7 million less covid cases than Europe on more then twice the area. Not like Nathan leads us to think we are worse than Europe.

                Also based on paid and bought scientific unproven evidence and assuming does not maintain respect for human dignity.

                When WHO covid does not make the top ten ways to die. Putting quarantine measures the worldwide produce fear that breaks down everybody immune system greater than any single other thing. This situation implementation its own set of living not ever experienced totally worldwide  history to this scale.

                1. Nathanville profile image91
                  Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  Castlepaloma, I should hope the vaccines and lockdowns is on the taxpayers; that’s how it should be.

                  Nope, prices will not sky rocket in the UK because of the pandemic, and FYI because of the successful vaccine rollout the virus is almost under control in the UK. 

                  Yep, during periods of national crises, just as in the 2nd world war, of course our ‘national liberties’ and ‘freedoms’ are muted; but for peak sake, get it into your head (if possible) that thanks to the successful vaccine rollout in the UK that the pandemic is virtually over in the UK, the lockdown has been lifted and normal life, including all the liberties you mention, returns to the UK post pandemic on the 21st June; which is just 4 weeks away.

                  Quarantine has been an essential element in limiting the spread of the virus; to not quarantine when you have covid, or may have covid, would be irresponsible simply because you would then be going around infecting other people; some of whom may die. 

                  Also, you should be more careful in checking your facts before making bold (and false) statements suggesting that fewer people in the USA have died from covid than were killed in the world wars.

                  FYI:-

                  •    In the 1st world war, 117,466 Americans were killed.

                  •    In the 2nd world war, 419,400 Americans were killed.

                  So the total number of American casualties for the 1st & 2nd world war is 536,866 deaths; whereas to-date, deaths in the USA due to covid is now 604,418, which is significantly higher than deaths in the world wars.

                  Nope I have never said North America is worse than Europe; you are making false statements (as you often do).  I’ve very specifically highlighted that the USA & UK have been badly hit by the pandemic; just as Brazil & India are suffering badly from the pandemic. 

                  Besides if you did the calculations properly, rather than making bold statements that are misleading, you’ll know that Europe with a population of 746.4 million have suffered 1,063,130 covid deaths and that North America with a significantly small population of only 579 million have had 885,667 covid deaths; so taking into account the smaller population in North America their isn’t a great deal of difference in the impact of the pandemic on either side of the pond.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                    Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    I didn't agree to be taxed to have several of my human right illegal broken. Then to be force by a so called volunteer unhealthy vaccines jab into my arm several times for several side effects of who knows what.
                    When it comes to my body I am the best doctor in the world, not doctors who live several years below life expectancy. Plus dangerous State and banksters and gangs behind it all.

                    Most people in my circle have not seen a hospital bed for more then a decade. No should-ing please.

                    Unless you are in the billionaires club, one has no clue unless your like Bill Gates and technology billionaires sponsorship and lobbyists have known it to be close, all along.

                    I said the number of covid are fake like cdc covid deaths certificate, being 6% purely covid, it's more likely 3%. Uk and Israel is even more fake to set up more fake examples for the whole world follow the Jab of Hut billionaires record profits

                    The 2nd world war,  found muster gas (chemotherapy) ban for easily killing in warfare. Chemotherapy (like covid jab) wars death by cancer being the greater killer globally today. Those same old devils are at it again, as covid is a war declared by Presidents

                    Covid is a faction of all US troops wars deaths. American Civil War (1861-1865)    620,000
                    World War II (1939-1945)    405,399
                    World War I (1917-1918)    116,516
                    Vietnam War (1965-1973)    58,209
                    Korean War (1950-1953)    36,516
                    American Revolutionary War (1775-1783)    25,000
                    War of 1812 (1812-1815)    20,000
                    Mexican-American War (1846-1848)    13,283
                    War on Terror** (2001-present)    7,057
                    SpanishAmerican War (1898)    2,446
                    Gulf War
                    Iraq and 179 other war.

                    Plus the greatest genecide in human history of 100 million, too difficult to count the death in warfare. Yet they are the purest of Americans.


                    You said US covid is worse than across Europe. Or did I misunderstand.
                    Not by covid number of cases or by confined spacing of continents. Europe was more population than North America making covid more  dangerous there than here is my point.

                    1. Nathanville profile image91
                      Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                      Castlepaloma, your concept of statistical comparisons is nonsensical; comparing a single event in a single year with a range of events over decades or even centuries is meaningless e.g. your constant claim that the risk to you of dying from covid is less than flu death because you add together all the flu deaths in Canada over several decades as a comparison to the covid deaths for just one year.  And in your post above you claim covid deaths are insignificant because they are less than all the deaths added together from all the American wars over the past few centuries. 

                      On that logic, you might as well say that there is virtually no chance of you dying in a car accident because over the past 2,000 years the percentage of the population who have died in car accidents is so small as to be almost unmeasurable; in spite of the fact that cars have only been around to just over a century.

                      You keep claiming that the UK and Israeli is ‘fake’ only because the data in the UK and Israel do not fit in with your crackpot theories. 

                      So what is the point in trying to debate anything with you when all scientifically verifiable data (which I know is TRUE because living in the UK I am an eyewitness to it)  you just dismiss out of hand, calling it ‘fake’ because it proves your crazy theories and beliefs wrong.

                      To tell me that the UK covid death toll is fake (when I can see it with my own eyes to be true) is an insult to me.  To tell me that the vaccines that have been so successful in eradicating covid from the UK are ‘fake’ and don’t work’ is an insult to me e.g. on both counts, because I know these facts to be true, because I live here and can see it with my own eyes; you are effectively calling me a liar, because what I see with my own eyes proves what you believe is false; and you are arrogant  enough to think that you are right and that all the mainstream scientists (experts) around the world are wrong.

              2. Sharlee01 profile image83
                Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                "Sharlee, it’s not a question of relying on our immune system or a vaccine; it’s a question of the vaccine preparing the immune system in the event that we come into contact with the virus.
                "

                I was addressing the key point of the thread  --- A immunity vs.Vaccines challenge. Who dares?

                I sought to give my opinion on the immune system vs vaccine, and in this case how both worked in a fashion to curb the COVIDs infection rate as well as the death rate. Using stats to prove my point. Common sense tells one that the immune system played a bigger part in building a herd. As I stated we have no way of measuring how many people got COVID and were asymptomatic or the illness was not severe enough to seek a doctor, this alone tells me that in more cases the infected had to depend on their immune system, and did...

                " The vaccine is NOT an alternative to your immune system; all that the vaccine does is to introduce a foreign into your body that the same shape as covid; "

                I am fully aware of what vaccines offer. Let me repeat ---   The human immune system is miraculous. Yes, a vaccine can aid one's immune system, and help in most cases prevent a virus from doing the damage it sets out to do. We need to consider the true numbers, and the fact we made it a year without a vaccine. The majority of the people on the planet had one thing going for them, and that would be their immune system.

                Vaccines work with the immune system which makes my point that the immune system would be the most important factor working with the vaccine to curb the infection of COVID.

                How in the world did the UK keep so many (10%) from being exposed to COVID? It would seem quarantine would be the only mitigation that would keep so many from not being exposed.  The vaccine is truly helping build a herd in a much speedier fashion. 

                My point was that the immune system played a very large part in curbing the spread of COVID. Otherwise, we would have had billions of cases and many more million deaths.

                Herd immunity will come over the next many years, viruses denature, some take many years as H1N1 has. We continue to have the vaccine for H1N1 added to our yearly flu injection, H1N1 has been hanging on since 2009. I would not think COVID will disappear overnight. There will most likely be boosters for many years to come as the virus mutates, and denatures.

                1. Nathanville profile image91
                  Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  Sharlee, where you state “As I stated we have no way of measuring how many people got COVID and were asymptomatic or the illness was not severe enough to seek a doctor”; actually we do have a way of measuring how many people got covid regardless to whether they were asymptomatic or not; and that is the anti-bodies test.

                  As far back as about May 2020 the UK Government (NHS) have been testing the population for anti-bodies as an accurate measure of how many people have been exposed to the virus.  Contrary to the covid tests which tells you whether you currently have covid or not; the anti-bodies test tells you if you’ve been exposed to covid in the past.  That’s how we can tell that only 10% of the UK population has ever been exposed to the virus.

                  I believe similar anti-body tests have been carried out in the USA, and from what I last heard, my understanding that the number of Americans with covid anti-bodies in their body’s is more than double that of the UK (but you’ll have to do your own research on that).  Anyway, the point is, nowhere near enough Americans have been infected to build up herd immunity and to achieve herd immunity, even in America would mean at least three times as many people would need to get infected; tripling the death toll e.g. over 1.5 million instead of the current 600,000 plus.

                  I appreciate that you might be fully aware of that the vaccines offer, but Castlepaloma; as far as Castlepaloma is concern the vaccines are a ‘fake’, doesn’t work, and kill people, rather than protecting them.

                  With reference to your comment “We need to consider the true numbers, and the fact we made it a year without a vaccine. The majority of the people on the planet had one thing going for them, and that would be their immune”.  As I stated above, in spite of common perception, the fact remains that less than 10% of people in the world has been exposed to the virus; the actually percentage will vary from country to country e.g. its 10% in the UK; much higher in the USA, very low in Canada and Iceland, but much higher in Brazil and India etc.  If we allowed the virus to spread without taking any measure, like Brazil and to some extend India, then the death tolls in the USA & UK would have been much higher. 

                  Reference your comment “How in the world did the UK keep so many (10%) from being exposed to COVID? It would seem quarantine would be the only mitigation that would keep so many from not being exposed.”  Yep, about 90% of the UK population has avoided exposure to covid; and that’s about par for most of Europe, and to a lesser extent the USA. 

                  In the UK we’ve had a strict economic and social ever since March 2020; it was eased from the 4th July for a couple of months until the spread of the virus got out of control again; and since the 4th January the UK has been in a tight economic and social lockdown; which (after a successful vaccine rollout) was lifted on the 17th May this year; with all covid restriction e.g. social distancing and mask wearing to be removed as from the 21st June; as we return to normal life post pandemic e.g. almost 75% of the adult population has now been vaccinated, and as a result covid deaths has plummeted from over a 1,000 a day to just single figures (and still falling by the week).

                  As regards your last comment “Herd immunity will come over the next many years”.  We now have herd immunity in the UK thanks to the vaccine; and to maintain it the Government is organising a vaccine booster shot in the autumn (if required), just like the annual flu shot.

                  1. Sharlee01 profile image83
                    Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    In regard to anti-bodies testing, It would seem the UK did something the US did not do. We did offer the anti-bodies test. that one could obtain by going to a clinic and paying for it.  My statement was a general statement in regards to not being able to truly Mount how many in the world have had COVID and went uncounted. Are you assuming a large majority of people that were asymptomatic or just did not become very ill with COVID sought a test? IMO the infection count is severely off. Just my opinion.

                    You claim in the UK the citizens went the extra mile to avoid COVID, as a person that considers stats, how do you explain the heavy infection rate as well as death toll? It would seem the death toll per million in the UK was 1,873 whereas the US show 1817 per million died. The infection rate in the UK is much lower than in the US. Does the high death rate indicate a poor healthcare system? It certainly looks like the UK has finally got the upper hand in regard to COVID. 

                    It is very good to hear that the UK has plans to vaccinate in the autumn. IT  is being talked about here, and I would think it the prudent thing to do.

                    1. Nathanville profile image91
                      Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                      Thanks for your feedback Sharlee, and thanks for the clarity over the anti-bodies test in the USA.

                      One thing the UK Government is good at doing is gathering data e.g. it’s a lot easier to find out about the homeless and unemployed, poverty and deaths etc. from UK records than it is from American records.

                      As regards covid infection rates, illness and deaths in the UK data is gathered from various sources; for example:-

                      •    People being tested because they have the symptoms.

                      •    People tested because they’ve been in close contact with someone who has tested positive.  Part of the ‘Test & Trace’ scheme to track down all those infected.

                      •    Testing as part of the Quarantine rules when travelling back from abroad.

                      •    Mass Testing, where an entire community, section or group of people are tested on mass e.g. an entire city like Liverpool was in September, as all university Students were in December before they returned home to their parents for Christmas, and as visitors to the elderly in care home where more recently.  Very much like they do mass testing in China.

                      •    As from April this year, every single person in the UK is now entitled to two FREE covid tests per week.

                      •    Various research studies, including the anti-bodies tests.

                      In the UK the anti-bodies test are FREE; the main purpose of the anti-bodies testing has been to do a large random sample of the UK population to gauge the true extent of the spread of the virus.  For the purpose of this exercise the Government bought 10 million test kits back in May 2020 with the intention of random sampling 20% of the population over 12 months; which they have done.  The NHS chose my son and a close friend of ours who lives in Portsmouth as part of their random sampling; and neither had any covid anti-bodies, which considering that both have been shielding since March 2020 is no surprise.  Our friend in Portsmouth has been shielding because he’s a diabetic and therefore high risk.  Our son shielded because of her medical condition my wife is also a high risk.

                      So in answer to your question 20% of the UK population have been randomly sampled for covid anti-bodies (all FREE Testing); and that data put together with data from test & trace and the hospital data etc., gives a very comprehensive and invaluable picture.
                      Studies in the UK (and elsewhere) show quite conclusively that generally speaking that the ratio between asymptomatic and systematic is about 1:2, and that about 10% of those who are systematic do develop ‘long term illness’ known as the ‘long haulers’, and that about 1% of those who become ill will die.  What applies in the UK and other countries where accurate data has been collected can be assumed to apply to those countries where data collection and stats are less well kept e.g. India, Russia etc.

                      No I am not assuming a large majority of people that were asymptomatic or just did not become very ill with COVID sought a test?  It’s because of things like the mass testing in the UK and the anti-bodies testing in the UK that provides accurate statistics.  For example:-

                      •    Last September, as part of a UK Government trial, to test the mass testing kits, with the Administrative help from the Army, the entire city of Liverpool was mass tested within a month; about half a million people.

                      •    One million university students were mass tested in December before they could travel home to their parents for Christmas; with those who tested positive having to quarantine for two weeks before travelling home.

                      It’s through mass testing programmes like this that you quickly establish the proportion of people who have asymptomatic covid; and the extensive anti-body testing (as covered above) is further confirmation of the stats.

                      Not just the UK, but Europe in general have, compared to the USA, have gone the extra mile to avoid Covid.  Yep, I know that in spite of the extra effort made by the UK, the stats clearly show that the UK has (to date) fared slightly less well than the USA.  It is something that will keep academics busy for years debating e.g. there are many factors and variables that contribute to how a country has fared during the pandemic. 

                      Such factors include:-   

                      •    Climate e.g. the virus prefers cooler conditions.

                      •    Population density e.g. the virus spreads easier and quicker in urban areas than rural areas.

                      •    Mitigations e.g. mask wearing, social distancing and isolation etc., all help to dampen the spread of the virus.
                      In the UK the lockdowns has been in response to the severity of the infection e.g. the more widespread the virus has been, the tighter the restrictions have been.  For example:-

                      •    The UK was in full economic and social lockdown from the 23rd March to 4th July 2020 (first wave); by which time daily deaths had dropped to single figure, so the lockdown was eased and the economy (except for sections of the hospitality sector) were reopened.

                      •    But with the reopening of the economy infection rates started to rise again, so from September for the rest of the year a light lockdown (regional lockdowns) were imposed.

                      •    However, the light lockdown didn’t stop the spread of the virus, it just slowed it; so as from 4th January a full and strict lockdown was imposed, which was only lifted on the 17th May.

                      •    Unfortunately, during the latest lockdown the UK (Kent) variant swept across the UK in January/February e.g. its 50% more infectious; thus resulting in over 1,000 deaths a day.

                      •    But fortunately the vaccination rollout was well underway by the beginning of January, and within just a couple of months has bought the death toll down from over a 1,000 a day to just single figures. 

                      The lockdown has been tough e.g. most people working from home if possible, school closed often closed, the hospitality sector (such as pubs, bars, restaurants and nightclubs) have all been closed for the best part of 14 months etc.

                      But amazingly have been very supportive of the Government e.g. opinion polls showing 80% support from the public in favour of the lockdowns and restrictions during the pandemic; so in the UK there has been a high percentage of compliance; especially amongst the older population (those over 30). 

                      I can’t say why the UK has done as badly has it has done during the pandemic (I’ll leave that to the academics to argue about); but I can highlight some of factors that made matters worse for the UK, as follows:-

                      1.    While other European countries were going into lockdown, Boris Johnson (like Trump) hesitated and delayed lockdown by about 10 days, by which time the virus had already spread to the UK and was spreading fast across the country.  According the statisticians (experts), if the UK had gone into lockdown at the same time as its neighbouring countries we could have reduced the initially death toll in the first wave by half.

                      2.    Boris Johnson (our British Prime Minster) struggle to get an effective ‘test & trace’ running in March 2020, and abandoned the idea altogether by April; which because of our initial lack of ability to trace those who came into close contact with infected people allowed the virus to spread unchecked, causing the loss of life in the tens of thousands.

                      3.    Our biggest and deadliest wave was in January/February of this year, due to the UK (Kent) variant of the virus, which is 50% more infectious than the original European (Italy) variant.

                      But in spite of all his failings, to his credit:-

                      •    Boris did develop a UK version of the covid app which became available for download to smart phones in September 2020, and which has proven to be an additional aid to fighting covid e.g. it notifies you when you’ve been in close contact with an infected person.

                      •    Boris did commission research and testing (R&D) into a reliable mass testing kit; which was extensively trialled between September and December 2020; and now is available for Free for everyone (up to two kits per person per week).  My son, a freelance professional photographer has hardly worked since March 2020, just one job in September (when the Government briefly relaxed restrictions).  However, following the lifting of the lockdown on the 17th May e.g. the reopening of the hospitality sector (after being shut for 14 months) my son has started work again; but because (as a professional photographer) he’s working in the hospitality sector he is obligated, by those commissioning him, to take the free test at least once a week; at least for the time being.

                      •    And thanks to Boris, we (along with just a small handful of countries) have managed to vaccinate virtually the entire population in a record short period of time; currently 72.5% of the adult population now vaccinated (which is tantalisingly close to herd immunity). 

                      Yep the UK Government is mindful to vaccinate children in August and have already decided to rollout the booster shots to adults (if required) from September. 

                      COVID-19: Free tests to be offered in England:  https://youtu.be/6SZ91wcpfmw

      3. Miebakagh57 profile image69
        Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Arthur, much thanks. You're being acknowledged for the factual points you input.                                       Fact is that Castlepaloma must be EXTREMELY HIGH on marijuana drug to openly throw such a foolish challenge at you.                                           Lobobrando and others were backing you. Seriously, Castlepaloma likes to distract himself on common public issues. Let Ca'a as we also knew him take up his challenge himself. I'm glad that you defer it to the waste paper basket or bin.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image76
          Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          I don't down anyone here, assuming they are an alcoholic drunk. Just because you don't agree with me dose not make me a pot head. Most people by far do more legal or illegal drugs than I would do. Only occasionally I've use marijuana for medicine and the odd party. I might be a bit of a work-aholic
          Or a opti-aholic. Yet only addicted to love. None of guys are sciencist, yet claiming science is all on your side. Same with the worldwide largest freedom protests ever, you guys ignore. Along with the media that control your minds which ignore the 100 countries covid protests too.

          We will over come and just move around the freedom, health holistic and economy deniers.

          My life is far more simply with only two policy rules of no harm and be honest.

          Compared to the millions of slavery rules many of you have to follow by your owners.

          1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
            Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Pot Head, you're here agreeing you're on marijauna.                                       As a christian, I don't smoke nor drink alcholic beverages.                                           In my country Nigeria, if you catch with any hard drugs, you'll be sent to prison. Same thing in the USA and the UK. Should it happen that a moslem cleric get the information and ordered your arrest, you be behead fullstop.                                That said, give up marijauna and cocaine. It destroys a life. And do go for rehabilitation. We can come to agreement when you support mainstream health workers moves against oovid instead of conspiracy theories. Much thanks.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image76
              Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              Not once, did I do pot and talked to you guys online. That shouldn't matter, the conspiracy that marijuana is most dangerous drug in the world is a complete lie. The corrupted synthetic corporations like Pharmaceutical who couldn't compete with most diverse, best medicine and productive plant in human history.

              Same group like Pharmaceutical where legal drugs even the vaccines kill you alot more than the illegal drugs.

              If your country behead people for marijuana. In my country Canada where marijuana is legal. Canada is another good reason why my country peoples lives 25 years longer than Nigerians . We also live longer than UK. My friend here in Nova Scotia Canada used marijuana on 5000 patients and it was 40 times better 85% for cancer remission cases than chemotherapy 2.1. Or course anything most healthy will be destroyed by the largest pharmaceutical corporations and he was force out of our country. Now he is successful in Europe.

              Alcohol and smoking are the most deadly legal drugs too. The WHO, CDC and fear and death A'$$hole FDA and other health organization supports the most dangerous vaccines and drugs in the world. Its why Don't trust them with a ten foot pole.

              1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                You love being ignorant. Go to hell.

                1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                  Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  You first, Hell dose not exist for me. Only on earth.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                    Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    Envy, greed and bullies are sure reveals their bark raving madd sides. The old devils are at it again.

                    1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                      Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                      Pro vaxxers rat on their neighbours for secrets visits to their love one that cost then deep fines or jail time.

                      Its already turning around where many businesses won't serve people who have been vaccinated. Our tiny house community of 20 disallows anyone who has been vaccinated for deep concerns of being infected by them. Air transmitted new strains and mutations covid.

                    2. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                      Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                      Does who smoke pot are pot head and devil head. Devil go away!

          2. Nathanville profile image91
            Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Very presumptuous Castlepaloma; your statement”-

            “None of guys are scientist, yet claiming science is all on your side”

            FYI (For Your Information); I have qualifications (exams passed after years of study in school and college) for:-

            •    Physics
            •    Astronomy, and
            •    Human Biology

            And my pet scientific subject is ‘Quantum Physics’:  So don’t tell me I’m ignorant of science.   FYI, you’re the scenically ignorant one.

            Also, when you say: - “Same with the worldwide largest freedom protests ever, you guys ignore.”  I assume you are referring to your false claim that the small anti-lockdown protest is the worldwide largest freedom protests ever.  Which is a fabrication (lie); I’ve already given you several examples in previous posts in this forum of protests in the UK and the USA that have been far larger; it’s just that you refuse to accept the facts because they don’t fit in with your distorted view of the world.

            Your comment: “Compared to the millions of slavery rules many of you have to follow by your owners.” is twisted.  In the free democratic countries we don’t follow slavery rules, that’s just a perverted view in your mind; not reality.

            1. lobobrandon profile image89
              lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              I am a scientist. I am working on my PhD in aerodynamics and have a major in Biology and I understand how mRNA vaccines work better than most people. But, there are plenty of videos out there that do a fine job explaining exactly how they work, so in principle, everyone on the planet if they want to can have a very good understanding of how they work.

              1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                Lobobrandon, you're welcome. All the best in your studies.                                  Biology is one of my best science subjects along with chemistry and physics. Though I major in History in the university. That's why I'm participating seriously in this discusion.                                    Frankly speakly, if Ca'a would held to the ABC of health science as related to the pandemic or its prevention which we're begging, the world recovered in record time. But he choice to held to conspiracy theories. Have a great day!

                1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                  Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  Plandemic do have ABCs. Because I can read them easily on the wall. They are all over the map confusing numbers and alphabetical abnormals.

                  Panedemic kill more people and by lower than the population growth below par. Like Spainish flu, Black plaques and Small pox.


                  Americans are active marijuana ... Half of all people over 18 have used marijuana in their lifetime. Since most of them are Christians, your allowed to preform your desires to cut off their HEADS!!! According to your standards, this is right.

                  Best to ask American authority first, since they are at a higher % into Christianity.

              2. Castlepaloma profile image76
                Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                I had a few girlfriends with PHDs, one called it Piled higher and deeper. PHD more often do not require results for the larger communities . If I don't get result with my team of veterans scientists who work tightly together. I can't  pay my bills. Only failed once on a display in 35 years.

                An ongoing PHD is a professional student not a professional scientist veterans. PHD study many hand me downs, maybe from scientist, other and videos.

                I would give credit for a PHD as proof of reality great work ethics.
                When combined love and work together, is a more accurate measure of a successful life, over time.

                1. lobobrandon profile image89
                  lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  PhDs often do not require results? Speaks about the kind of universities they get those degrees from.

                  Also, in Germany a PhD is not considered as a student when done at a research institute. I do not have a student visa, but a scientific researcher visa and position.

                  Also remember that PhDs originated in Germany and some branches and countries tend to have watered it down, so what your girlfriends have had were probably "piled higher and deeper" but it is not how it is here.

                  Anyhow, I am not interested in this conversation and I wish you the best with your challenge. Even if one with a noble prize in Physiology or Medicine spoke to you, you would still have the same false opinion. Opinion, not fact.

                  1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                    Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    Lobobrandon, well argued and well done.

                2. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                  Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  Lobo, IMHO no 'girl friend.' But pure 'insanity' cause by pot. Be on guide always.

            2. Castlepaloma profile image76
              Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              I didn't say your were ignorant of science. I said none of you are scientist . Being an academic of science is not a scientist.
              I claim to be a world class artist, don't claim be a scientist because I'm honest and don't do it full time. Not like an artist like myself who  dose it for 45 years and that pays the bills.

              Yet, do work with world class scientists building in human history and dinosaur museums and displays. From first hand dinosaur bones and with top historians worldwide.

              As far as true democracy, forget the US. UK is not in the top 10 democracies countries in the world, where Canada is. Who says only democracy works? It does not work for gays who are illegal in 80 countries. Or atheists who can't get top political leadership. Or me who first hand experiences are not well considered here.

              I try to used the stats that you maybe able to understand even though the most worldwide corrupted system in our lifetime. It hurts my brain coming from a true healthy democracy small community of trade, sharing and family like. To greatest criminals leaders of our times. Their phony bolony second to dozen hand me down, and clusters ugly freaking misinformation.

              If one can deeply understand history. Slavery is happening more today than any other time in human history. I seen it first hand in my tours across 4 continents, even by gun point and there is more guns than ever.

              I got pull over by a cop the other day for no reason. He told me it a privilege to be able to drive a car on the road.
              Nonsense it my human right and constitutional right to travel in a personal car. I could sue him yet do not want the hassle. Luckily I was a parttime investigator, only time I felt like a criminal myself. Its finally working out for my tiny castle without the hassle.

              1. lobobrandon profile image89
                lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                Still wrong to say none of us are scientists. A nice assumption though and you had a high probability to be right considering we are on the political forums on HP.

                1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                  Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  I've work enough with top scientist for 35 years, to have a good guess estimate what real scientists sound like.

                  I thought this was an open writer forum, I've been on for 10 years.
                  Now which one of you is a real politicains here? Or who is an expects on politics?
                  Or any professionals or just amateur politicians, to be truthful for all of our sakes.

                  1. lobobrandon profile image89
                    lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    Classical misunderstanding again. All I said was it was a nice assumption that there are no scientists who would waste their time on these meaningless forums.

                    Also, scientists have varied personalities, saying you know what one sounds like is absurd at best.

                    1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                      Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                      Science is like a branch on the tree of life. The tool of observation get better with many trails and error all the time. Nobody near to any such level of proven science is here. All the scientists I know find covid handling is total maddness.

                      The way many of you feel certain that dozens of vaccines today that are unbaked by 20 years. When in reality they carries no back bone or brain structure for success biologically.
                      Mainly push from politics states  and wealthy profiteers. As a distraction from something greater by  a financial collapse.

                      From these all over the map dozens of cocktail vaccines to save humanity from certain death. Is as brilliant as a chicken little story running herd mentality . It is the most unlogicial harmful, most imaginable dog breakfasts I've ever experienced.

                      More people than you can imagine are already totally done with this zombie and robot apocalypse now.

              2. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                This is sure sign of your mental deficit.

                1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                  Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  Why, are you God who knows all?

                  GOD would laugh at my plans too.

                  1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                    Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    Castle, I'm no God. But I've got the mindset of God in me, and my knowledge is limited, unlike God who is omniscience.                                      God laugh and still laughs. So I laugh at you!

            3. Miebakagh57 profile image69
              Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

              Arthur, yep! But d'you realize he likes to stay ignorant? His mind's warp with marijuana and cocaine!

              1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                If you knew science like I know about medical plants from my health foods and medicines business. You would know cocaine and marijuana are very useful medicine plants. Have Not try cocaine myself.
                if someone wants to kill themselves by cocaine, they are idiots and one less in the gene pool.

                If your going to be high and mighty off your extremely dangerous pharmaceutical billionaires gurus. If you want to kill yourself, doctors will help  subscribe enough to do that. Your entirely entitled and free to sheep limited freedom and death by old devils.

                All I ask is to be free on what gose into my body. Plus allowed me to sell my holistic foods and medicines without lockdowns and vaccines passports to sell them at what is supposed to be a free market place.

            4. Castlepaloma profile image76
              Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              For me. My business is booming.Been preparing for it the last ten years. Yet not happy when too many are suffering far worst all round than from one single virus, not seen in this lifetime. Lockdown protest over not enough vaccines and masks LOL.  Nonsense from some suggested here.

              A masks last for about month for average global person. A disposable doctors mask is right away. When the rest of us have to wear it all day at work, that is germ filled for a month,  that's a mass germ spreader.

              The whole properganda machine is owned and operated by technology giant who even ban Trump from any free speech or any  popular person who opposed masks and vaccines on their own bodies. I don't like Trump, yet everyone is untitled to free speech. So who going to listen to Nazis or KKK anyways.

              Economic hardship
              Lockdowns have been financially devastating for millions and billions of people who have been unable to work and lost their incomes. Due to the International Monetary corruption since the beginning of the pandemic global economy shrank by 4.4 percent in 2020, the worst decline since the Great Depression of the 1930s.

              I've headed up riots security  in Vancouver in the greatest riots in Canadian history. These recent protester are the most intense in violence since riot of the 60s and 70s when touring in America as an athlete. In Europe have focused on supporting the economy, including the hospitality and cultural sectors, which have been badly hit by lockdowns.

              Most financial impact of lockdowns has been felt in developing economies, like Europe and America
              A demonstrator protest against the lockdown and worsening economic conditions, spreading  coronavirus worst anyways,
              Government has taken us to our maximum limits.

              Financial hardship has also fuelled protests in Latin America, with protests taking place in Peru and Mexico in recent weeks after lockdowns were imposed.The Mexican economy shrank 8.5 percent in 2020.
              several protests against the lockdowns from retail and hospitality workers and street vendors. The demonstrations resumed .
              Like myself, people want to go out to work, to sell, to work in their businesses, [many) don’t have savings, they are being left homeless, with debts, so they respond by protesting.”
              When people starve in many ways from covid. They totally loose their fear of authorities or over obedience or any confusion over the risks posed by the virus world order abnormal.


              “The other [part] that is also challenging is that this virus is so variable for so many people, and mimics in so many ways illnesses that we are used to having and recovering from.
              That creates a lot of or misinterpretation about risks. What a lot of people are trying to reconcile with is, why are you restricting my life when this is no worse than something we’re all used to

              Sure some Misinformation has also manifested at lockdown protests, where diverse groups of people, including conspiracy theorists and so-called anti-vaxxers, who oppose the use of vaccines, have sought to exploit the uncertainty around the virus and the vaccines as an opportunity to boost their support.

              I support a conspiracy theory like marrijanna, 9/11 and new world order because plentiful evidence shows the writing on the wall.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56794047
                Where is the stat of 72% fully vaccinated . Maybe vaccinated by a third in UK. Many UK stats are all over the map. Then we have how your cherry pickin that increases the difficulties. Along with UK Government programed propaganda  machine stats. No worries, all Governments are corrupted. Lucky for me, our own self government community economy and no vaccines policy set us from dictatorship . So, No skin off my nose or arm or whole body skinned or mutations or new strains.

                I'm OK if others are OK in getting Vaccines like 97% your assumption of UK approval of it, which we already debunked.

                Yet parents have no say in Canada. If children  want the vaccines they can lab rat their own bodies for the Government scientific experiments.Just another dozens of other national and international human rights and constitutional violation broken. Just another step of State, synthetic fear & death association. Plus banksters and gangs totally owning your mind body and soul. Your true Gods on a daily bases.

      4. MizBejabbers profile image85
        MizBejabbersposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Hear, hear! Now somebody's talking sense.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image76
          Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Thankyou

          We will turn this around, we have too.

    2. Kathleen Cochran profile image82
      Kathleen Cochranposted 13 months ago

      lobobrandon: You hit the nail on the head.

    3. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 13 months ago

      Being an individualist of my own design, I AM NOT ASKING ANOTHER HUMAN BEING TO FOLLOW MY EXAMPLE -- so the following is my own position in the whole matter of Covid. So, please, whoever wants to take vaccine, or believe in anything, you have my blessing.

      Let's talk about science. According to science, when an organ is being transplanted, the patient is given huge doses of adrenaline, to suppress the immune system, which is bound to reject the new organ.
      Now, that same adrenaline, OBVIOUSLY capable of doing a big number on immune system, is also THE CHIEF STRESS HORMONE produced in our adrenal glands (as all of you already know).

      According to the science of psycho-neuro-immunology, a prolonged exposure to stress will seriously affect immunity, leaving almost completely unprotected all those who are very suggestible by nature, those with already compromised immunity due to an already existing heavy diagnosis, and those emotionally unstable. Masks, social isolation, and financial uncertainties are greatly adding to it.

      MY OWN, not necessarily anybody else's question is: why health authorities don't see what they are doing by bombarding people with fear mongering? It is not about "raising awareness", if awareness boils down to a global panic, which is reducing the ONLY REAL protection that we have.

      I have no conspiracy theory to offer. To me it simply looks terribly counterproductive -- with effects already evident in massive new mental problems, which just might escalate into a "mental pandemic" of a sort.
      I can't see why it's been so important that we know day by day how many more infected and dead are there locally and globally.

      I have nothing to comment on what you, folks, have been discussing here. As far as I care, you are all perfectly right to express what you think -- and I am just doing the same -- AGAIN, WITH NO INTENTION TO CHANGE ANYONE'S OPINION.
      By the way, I am 77 years old, and I will not take any vaccine. Thank you for reading.

      1. lobobrandon profile image89
        lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        It is important to know, because there are millions (yes you read that right) who still think it is fake news.

        News is always stressful, covid news is no different. Most people have stress at work. This kind of stress does not affect the immune system the same way as a heavy dose of adrenaline.

        What about the fake news all around, isn't that stressful? The brown guy with a beard walking down the street may be a terrorist, I look at him and I am scared. Is that not stressful? I don't see that causing peoples immune systems to die. But, yes, this kind of stress has led to some people going mental, you have violent crimes being committed. Covid news at least is factual and is warning people to be careful. On the other hand when there are high numbers somewhere there are people who get this news and try to help in some way or another.

        Your question is more of a philosophical question and long debates could be had.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image76
          Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Thankyou for your input.

          There is many more of us that only come to the surface unmasked breathing. In order to drive back down from the onesideness dictatorship to hide.

          Meaning there will be a mass pendulum swing the other way after some greater abuse to come.

          The real mass deep down are not for extreme lockdowns and forced volunteer vaccines.

          1. lobobrandon profile image89
            lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Yes, there is a larger and larger group of people who are uneducated and there is a large dumbing down of society. I fear that science as we know it is going to go on the back foot in the future, some thing like the dark ages. India is already going into it with people who believe cows and their waste products are the answer to everything. I see you as the same sort of folk, just of a different colour.

            Not taking a vaccine is fine to an extent, saying they are fake is just insanity.

            1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
              Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

              Lobo, you put it well. You're on guide. But Ca'a intention is to get you off tract and way laid you. You've got to know better.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                That's awfully judgemental there.
                Even when I don't agree on somethings. There is far more to learn from the 95% of the things we can agree on.
                Especially from seniors like me, who have work at several world class standard levels.

                Everyone has something they can do better than me and vise visa. I've learned even things from extreme negatives people like Trump and Bush personal dealing with them, yet very short lived.

                1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                  Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  All lies!

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                    Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    Through out all these post, you have not shown me one clear evidence of one major lie. Yet you call me liar.

                    Only mass synthetic mainstream media, medical drug pushers and giant institutions and technology billionaires cover up of mass BSers. The greatest BSers in human History. BSers are much greater than liars because they don't even care that they lie.

                    Based on your opinion with other clones from the centro of colonialism of fear and death.

                    Maybe I will off and tune in to a loving nature channel too.

    4. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 13 months ago

      lobobrandon -- My intellectual ego doesn't get fed by cheap victories on these forums, so I have absolutely no interest to prove you wrong about the question of how the fearmongering by health authorities is affecting the public's immune system. It would be Dr. Bruce Lipton, a professor at a medical school, a medical scientist, cellular biologist and renowned world lecturer on epigenetics -- who might want to prove you wrong, because those are HIS statements, not my made up story.
      Well, you can call yourselves "scientists" all you want --  somehow I believe that no scientist of some name would ever have an ambition to write for HP.
      I am not a scientist, but I just learn from those who really are.
      I am done here, I've got something more important to attend to -- like enjoying a TV program on "Love Nature" channel.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image76
        Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Oh yes, Love is my God and nature is my religion.

        I would say also, doing that is more important thing to do.

        1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
          Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Castlepaloma again?

          1. Castlepaloma profile image76
            Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            What? You don't even want to love and love nature too?

            Make up my mind, like your leaders do.

    5. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 13 months ago

      lobobrandon -- There was no "misunderstanding" there. You said that news about covid are not enough to raise significant amounts of adrenaline in humans, to which I was responding. I didn't need to mention Dr. Lipton, I could have told you about the same from my over thousand read books on human nature.
      From those books I learned to make a big difference between adrenaline  caused by existential fear, and the one by "everyday stress at work" (that was your example), or stress from having mother-in-lay over for dinner (which is my example).

      We are talking about fear that's direct expression of our alarmed survival instinct. The one that has made some people commit suicide in absolute panic, while in others it downregulated their genome expression, making their existing genetical predispositions to any kind of disease more pronounced.
      Moreover, those older folks, already "tired of life", living lonesome and many feeling neglected by their young family, easily succumbed to covid.
      Not because covid is so deadly, but because their immunity was not operating.

      Those three systems -- nervous, endocrine, and immune, are constantly working interdependently, so, being exposed to the global psychosis of existential danger, those three systems work against us, not for us.

      And there is nothing of "philosophical" nature (as you suggested) in any of this. Science doesn't get more recognizable than that.
      And, like that holistic psychiatrist Kelly Brogan, MD contended -- "More people are dying from fear than from covid". ANY bug is only as deadly as our immune system is out of order. If that was not so -- why a mass of people have "natural immunity" to covid, so many have it but are asymptomatic, and others recover on their own? Are those people superhuman?

      Well, like any 77 year old, I got carried away yapping about all this way too much. I simply had a feeling that there was something "more" I needed  to say.
      All chances are that feeling was wrong. It won't come back, no matter what you would have to say to debunk any of it. We old people either get too tired, or too wise for some long discussions.

      1. lobobrandon profile image89
        lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        I think you have your forum thread not set on the right format (thread/chronological). The misunderstanding was pointed not to you but Castle.

    6. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 13 months ago

      lobobrandon --Before I mentioned how I was going to enjoy a good TV show on "Love Nature" channel. I did, and I enjoyed it too, They were showing orangutans this time. Now, I was never a Darwinist -- nor was I a religionist -- but I don't know why suddenly I am tempted to believe that man really evolved from an ape.

      Maybe because of his intellectual arrogance, as he confuses science with scientific dogma in hands of politics and Big Buck -- and then stubbornly defends it.
      I don't know, but evolution has not done much for some people.
      Those others see future of science in hands of people who will not view man in a reductionist, mechanistic way, as biological machine made up of some clamped together molecules which suddenly get well when you add some other chemicals to that.

      But, what's the use. Let's love orangutans for what they are, not expect them to evolve into scientists.

      1. lobobrandon profile image89
        lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        I do not think anyone who understands the theory of evolution expects Orangutans to become scientists. They are nowhere close to it on the evolutionary chain even though they are some of the closest to it.

        The theory of evolution is proven beyond doubt and it cannot be compared to religion which is mere belief.

    7. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 13 months ago

      lobobrandon -- It was a satire, depicting people who will stick to scientific dogma in hands of politics and Big Buck. Also a metaphor, showing how some folks don't evolve much due to their intellectual arrogance which hijacks their logic in a need to be right.
      Has anybody ever told you that, by definition, a theory is not a science -- just a theory, and so is the theory of evolution. If it had been "proven beyond a doubt", it would have become a science, not a theory. Like, chemistry is science, not a "theory about elements of nature", physics is science, biology is a science.
      Do you know that medicine is an art, not a science? Over 350,000 people die yearly due to medical screwups in the US -- because "highly scientific" doctors and pharmacologists were "bad artists", bad guessers.

      Where should I really place you, as a "scientist"? I don't know. Choose for yourself a dignified enough place, I can't think of any.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image76
        Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        That is really interesting that you look at medicine as an art, not as a science. Felt it, yet not put in words.

        It's probably my most heated disagreement are with mainstream doctors. They look at me like a nutcase, when I say. I am my own best doctor in the world with an ounce of medicine treatment rather than a doctors pound of cure. Three different doctors wanted to operate on my leg. I fix it, in three months with exercise and electrical shock pad.

        My next project is an art farm. Since plants are 80 biological weight mass on earth and greatest medicines known. There again I get people saying if nature is the best medicine why did our life span doubled from the mid 1800s?.

        Art being the greatest influence throughout the ages of human history cultures and agriculture.
        You seem a man of good ideas more than of people or world events.

        Do you like the title :Art Farm? 
        Better than the pain of everyone picking on me.

        1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
          Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Dr. Castle Paloma, DM!

          1. Castlepaloma profile image76
            Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Many people come to me for holistic food, medicine, shelter and lifestyle. Shared with a 107 year old medicine man from Belize.

            I loved and lost two Christian girlfriends by death to their choice and consequences of chemotherapy. They refused my holistic practice and today found a new happiness in wealth of health and what I can forget.

            I only regret what I don't do in the future.

            1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
              Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

              Dr. Castle Paloma, doctor of holistic medicine. Very well done.                                  Grant the fact that you BELIEVE in holistic medicine, for the whole man, that I can agree.                                                So, it all boils down to making the intervention available for testing on a universal basis.                                                       D'you admit to this fact? In other words, you agree to let the scientific community to examine your discoveries?

              1. lobobrandon profile image89
                lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                He reminds me of these Sadhus back in India who believe in holistic cow urine but will never get it tested. He is right in the sense that sugars feed cancer, etc. But, that is also something science has discovered. It is funny how he accepts some stuff but refutes the other things which are also based on fact. No conspiracy in there.

                1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                  Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  Yes, I agree. That's what I intent to see.

                2. Castlepaloma profile image76
                  Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  It's funny that the earth mass is 99% unknown to the rest of us humans.

                  Yet lobo claims full evidence that BiG Bang and Evolution is fact totally back up by the science community.
                  I think your ready to have a debate with flat earthers that your so interested in.

                  Because I don't have enough time to prove the unknowns, let alone secret societies.

      2. lobobrandon profile image89
        lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        This is why I specifically stated that the theory of evolution is proven beyond doubt and it is not a theory, it just continues to hold that name because of its popularity and particular semantics. Darwins theory is what most people think about, but evolution is fact. You may be interested in the Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution … and_theory

        Medicine is as much an art as building a bridge. The builders can screw up, this does not mean the laws of physics are an art form. But you are right, medicine is not science, it is based on science. It is not an art form though, the practice of medicine is an art and needs skill.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image76
          Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Medicine is both an art and a science. Both are interdependent and inseparable, just like two sides of a coin. The importance of the art of medicine is because we have to deal with a human being, his or her body, mind and soul.

          It's why I'm in the business of holistic, mediccine, foods, shelter and lifestyle of a landbase self sustainable community of like minded people. Love forbid personal relationships divided by Pharmaceutical and uncontrollable inflation influences.

          1. lobobrandon profile image89
            lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            If you bring the pharma industry into the picture I can see the problem. They are in it for the money. They lobby to lower the levels of blood sugar for a patient to be considered diabetic for example. Science on the other hand has allowed us to be able to control the blood sugar level. You should never mix the two up. If you do, you obviously have problems with science, well, I hate to break this bubble but the two (science and industry) cannot be grouped together. That is why following the money is important in certain cases. This is where most people fail and end up saying science is bogus.

            The same people will never say religion is bogus when a single priest molests children. In that case it is a bad apple at work. But, they do not treat science the same way. You have the scientific method and you have those that twist things around for an agenda. People need a certain level of intellect (knowledge and undestanding) to see things for what they are. If you do not possess the intellect in a certain field of science you are very likely to fall for phoney stuff. This is why fake news works so well. It preys on peoples weaknesses.

            The first issue with vaccines that spread like wild fire were its relations to autism and this was all because of one bad guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_MMR_autism_fraud once out there it is difficult to take back and people choose to believe it because it then gives them a sense of control.

            When there is so much proof out there that the current vaccines prevent hospitalization and death, I find it ridiculous that you say otherwise. I therefore put you in the same category as the nuts who believe the earth is flat and that cow urine cures covid-19.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image76
              Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              I equal in life as the balance of intellectual, relationships, financial, spiritual and physical. If one over focus on one or lack in another, It suffers or cause death by my  personal studies and experiences. My universal bubble expands by bringing in my dreams with deadlines, then manifest master it into the ego self. Main high energy by love and work. Then give it all away to help others to expand within their own universal bubble. This is beyond your understanding as happy a$$ BS. It's as real as loving my work for most hour of my life. Like valkaras says, i have no idea what you ID of yourself as.


              Yes, I do mix the artist magic imagination with with a good sense of science and my family and I are the living proof of its success.

              Biden would be far more dangerous than flat earther silliness. Saying vaccines are 100% safe. When in America vaccination-related details and postmortem findings for 57 cases of sudden death in children 2 years or younger.

              I know herd cow down mentally won"t be treatment or cure for....
              COVID-19

              1. lobobrandon profile image89
                lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                I think it is a generational problem, you guys love putting labels and IDs on everything. No wonder you cant see things for what they are, but based on the group you wrongly once associated something with.

                Biden rolling out the vaccines saved a lot more lives, what about your documentation on that?´There are hundreds of thousands of deaths that could have been prevented had people the vaccine.

                1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                  Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  On the contrary, I live in the same house with my daughters who is the love of my life. Plus her boyfriend is my business manager. Both are  age 30s who are animators and computer wiz. They create and
                  I help invent game tools for learning in the living in the 8th demensional worlds. All three of us are international renowned and none of us will be vaccinated.

                  Labels don't stick well on me. Yet, will accept being called an anarchist, Agnostic, loving, kind, free and the king of my own domain in the bliss of life.

                  Where I see institutions, indoctrination and corporate labels coverage all over you.

                  No worries you fit well in the over crowded colonies and your owners who want to select who is thinned out.

      3. Nathanville profile image91
        Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Valkaras, if you want to be a purist on the subject all of science is built on theory; in the strictest sense nothing ever becomes a scientific fact; in science, even facts proven beyond reasonable doubt technically remain a theory. 

        Prime examples being Einstein’s ‘Theory of Relativity’; even though it’s been proven extensively to be correct, and is now well accepted by main stream scientists across the world, it retains its ‘Theory of Relativity’ title.  Just as the Big Bang Theory remains a theory by ‘title’, even though it’s well proven and accepted as fact by the scientific community.

        In the same vain, the ‘theory of evolution’ is well proven scientifically, and accepted by the scientific community as factual.

        The three main criteria for a theory to be a credible scientific theory are:-

        •    It makes falsifiable predictions with consistent accuracy across a broad area of scientific inquiry (such as mechanics).

        •    It is well-supported by many independent strands of evidence, rather than a single foundation.

        •    It is consistent with pre-existing experimental results and at least as accurate in its predictions as are any pre-existing theories.

        I don’t know where you get the idea that modern medicine is an art and not based on science.  And yes there may be a lot of deaths in the USA where things go wrong (for whatever reason); but an awful lot more people’s lives are saved because of it e.g. the benefits outweigh the risks many fold.

    8. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 13 months ago

      I don't know why this comment came up in a duplicate.

    9. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 13 months ago

      Castlepaloma -- Man, I wish everyone here would address a person so that we know at whom a response is directed.
      O.K., I recognized this one for being directed at me, because you commented on my saying how "medicine is an art, not a science".

      Yes, somewhat less so than psychology, but neither is an exact science, like, say, chemistry, where you always know what results to expect. Rather, they are interpretive, oftentimes speculative arts.

      I like calling medicine (along with psychology) "conditional". Like, penicillin can be administered under "condition" that a person is not allergic to it. Then, so much depends on our biological individuality, resulting with one treatment not necessarily being proper for two different patients, who may otherwise display exactly same symptoms. That's where medicine often plays "one-fit-all" hocus-pocus game.
      Medicine is irreplaceable in cases of emergencies, pregnancies, pediatrics, and few other areas, but then they think how that makes them an "all-knowing science".

      Then it ends up with a Grand Poobah of Health, Deity of World Health Organization which heeded one single virologist who proposed all these draconic protective measures -- for which many virologists have said how "no sane person would see them as justified".

      I am taking my own chance with my natural immunity, which I nurture quite well.
      Namely, I am a sort of a master at self-hypnosis and a long time meditator, so I am maintaining a great stress management.

      Well, let everyone use their own mind, I am not giving any advices.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image76
        Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Valkaras

        These are good enough answers to evolve with, ongoing.

        Albert Einstein. "I'm enough of an artist to draw freely on my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited; imagination encircles the world."

        A vaccines fits all is really using people worldwide as lab rats.
        Especially injection perfectly healthy baby to young children that have extremely little and vastly no chance of catching covid. Also aims to inject everyone on the planet is insane to me. Now watching many of these children being rushed back in hospital for maximum ongoing profiteers.

        I'm with you on working on myself as a self growth practice. The art of it, has always a branch of science involved in it. I will go to hospital for extreme emergency because I don't have the advanced equipment as they do to know enough . Yet, know better not to practice living on prescription drugs from those extreme drug pushers.

      2. Nathanville profile image91
        Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Actually, ValKaras, I know from personal experience earlier this year that medicine is an exact science. 

        When I fell seriously ill late January my wife made an appointment for me with my doctor that morning.  Within half hour of examination my doctor correctly diagnosed the problem as a kidney infection, and sent be home so that the District Nurses could call later that afternoon to start me off on my treatment to recovery. 

        During my visit to the doctor she also took a blood sample, which she sent to the hospital.  The district nurse called on me at home at about 3pm, and gave me my first medical treatment.

        At 8pm the hospital phone and advised me that I should be hospital, and offered to call an ambulance for me; which I agreed to.  And I’m glad that I did, because if I hadn’t had taken the hospital advice I would be dead now. 

        What fascinated me about the hospital phone call is that just from a blood sample they could tell exactly what the problem was, and how serious (life threatening) it was.

        And during the course of my treatment and recovery over the past few months; it’s all been scientifically led. 

        Yes you are taking a chance with your natural immunity system; which although is obviously quite good at the moment cannot guarantee protection against serious illness or death covid e.g. a small percentage of young healthy people do die of covid.  Even if you are quite fit and healthy, if you’re over 50 and over weight then the risk from covid increases.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image76
          Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          The man is a year away from beyond UK life span. Give him credit for his evidence of good work and ideas.

          For obese people recommended salads, not vaccines.

    10. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 13 months ago

      Lobobrandon -- To say that medicine is "based on science" doesn't make it look any better, because a village idiot may produce a home made bomb based on "scientific principles" which doesn't make his idiocy any smarter.
      So, when medicine is responsible for over 350,000 deaths each year, it's not some "isolated mistake which anyone can make on their job". When so many died of Covid, there was a major panic in the US, but all medical screwups are nicely swept under the rug, never made published anywhere.

      Besides, if something is "mainstream", it doesn't automatically mean it's correct, and all those lonely, but highly educated voices are not "insane", as you call them. I don't know what makes you an expert in medicine, but, no hard feelings if I don't see you as educated as those whom you are calling "insane"
      I have seen your kind of :intellect" too often, as I recognized their poor logic based on the general consensus, brainwashed by the "all-knowing medical, or political authority".
      Your kind of reasoning somehow :"knows" that down the road, maybe some months from now, those vaccines "surely" won't start producing some bad effects in people, maybe suppress their natural immunity. I guess, to your kind of reasoning it's something completely new that most of pharmaceuticals are not liver-friendly, and they may gradually, not instantly harm the body.
      And I guess, to you it's totally new that your "science based" medicine is mainly :curing" symptoms, not the underlying causes.

      Like this very educated and well known virologist (but in your eyes a "conspiracy theorist" I guess) says, how our natural immunity is non-specific, and will attack ANY bug and its variant -- whereas vaccines are specific, and calibrated to attack only "some". He further says, when a virus faces vaccine, it can mutate in 10 hours into a variant which won't be recognizable to vaccine -- but in that meantime, vaccine has completely taken over the job of immunity from our natural protection, making it passive, and so making the body open to infection from this stronger variant.

      I guess, to you it sounds like an idiocy, because you "don't want to believe that mainstream science could be wrong." Just like all those trampists were calling a "bad news" anything that was telling something bad about Trump, so you will call anything said against the mainstream medicine a "conspiracy theory". I find it hard to have a respect for that.

      But then, I am not a normative person, and as far as I care, you can see a Santa Claus in anybody dressed in white coat with a stethoscope hanging around their neck. Now, please, see some satire here, don't correct me that "Santa Claus is dressed in red, so you couldn't make that mistake." Well, from your kind of stiff reasoning I could expect something like that.

      By the way, I am not refusing to take vaccine on basis of ANY of those isolated and silenced voices of good science -- it's my own position about Covid. I don't think it's all that deadly by itself, it's deadly because people's immunity is weak -- and mine is well taken care of.

      Mohammad Ali was not all that "good" in the boxing ring -- but it was his opponents who were weaker than him. As soon as a stronger one came around, the legend stopped, regardless of all his skill.

      So I am not generalizing about vaccines -- let people take them, they might even work as a placebo, like a great number of other pharmaceuticals are working. Mind is a very powerful thing, and I should know it, being quite proficient at self-hypnosis. At some level we are constantly talking to our body cells, and they obey. Too bad they got so impressed by this prolonged bombardment by media paid by producers of vaccines.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image76
        Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Val, Better said than I could have.

        Coca-Cola was the producers of Santa Claus. It started as cocaine medicine than turned to sugar and water. I tried to save the life of my girlfriend from cancer with cannabis, nutrition and optimistism. All to be destroyed by coke and ice-cream to fatten her up for chemotherapy. Which cancers cells mainly thrived on refined sugar. As overwhelming required by her doctor gold standards with lack of hope . As cancer has increased 4 times per capita since I was young.
        She died 3 months afterwards
        A crossroad turning point for me.

        There no such thing as a cure all, same for the covid especially worldwide . As we all are made up of trillions of bacteria, viruses and microorganism that need exercises practice from our immune system.

      2. lobobrandon profile image89
        lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        "Like this very educated and well known virologist (but in your eyes a "conspiracy theorist" I guess) says, how our natural immunity is non-specific, and will attack ANY bug and its variant -- whereas vaccines are specific, and calibrated to attack only "some". He further says, when a virus faces vaccine, it can mutate in 10 hours into a variant which won't be recognizable to vaccine -- but in that meantime, vaccine has completely taken over the job of immunity from our natural protection, making it passive, and so making the body open to infection from this stronger variant."

        What bullshit is this? The starting part which is the quote from the expert is right. Vaccines do not take over immunity, however, that shows how much you know. Vaccines make your body produce an immune response, the same kind that is needed when the virus enters. It is basically a simulation before the actual war. The war is going to happen, the simulation does not take over the war.

        You show how well you understand the stuff experts say here, no point discussing science to people who have a mind similar to flat-earthers.

        Anyhow, I wish you and Castle a good life and I hope the virus stays away from you guys.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image76
          Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Individuals rely on active immunity more so than passive immunity. Active immunity is created by our own immune system when we are exposed to a potential disease-causing agent (i.e., pathogen). Most of the time, we are exposed to these potential pathogens naturally throughout the course of our day — in the air we breathe, the food we eat, and the things we touch. Luckily, most of these exposures are to agents that will not result in disease, either because they are harmless or because our immune system works to neutralize them.

          I got 1 in 2400 global chance of catching covid in the first place. Even if its only 6% purely covid by CDC stats in a death certificate . Then about 99.98 chance of survival if I do catch it.
          Being a health nut and playing with a few babies, I got a better chance of being killed by a weapon from an infants than covid. Try being a round them when they are running with scissors.

          There is only 200 members of flat earther silliness, mostly from the US.  Compared to nearly 8 billion people they aim to used as lab rats. With having no solid evidences on what these vaccines will do to us within do time.

          The biggest spokesman for vaccines who work together is Gates and Fauci. Ted talk Gates claim vaccines will kill 10 to 15% of the world population. Gates also said within 5 years a new virus will be 10 times worst than Covid. He has a faction of honesty. Its his judgement with his plandemic and correctness has been right so far that pevs me. This not the way to reduce the gene pool, like how UN, WHO and WEF would like it to be.

          Nobody will take me on my dare, because they lack consciousness and confidence in their 1% vaccines. Plus their Government and their understanding of we are bioorganism world first, not synthetics world first.
          If in doubt ask the Indians who say never trust the Government. Guess what? , most of us live on the Indian reservation now.

        2. Castlepaloma profile image76
          Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Lobo
          I developed a really strong immune system and holistic lifestyle.

          Most everyone else WATCH OUT!!! Most anything else will attack a weaker immunity. A lack of holistic living and the vaccines will make it weaker for the other more dangerous diseases and covid development of mutations and strains from vaccines .

    11. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 13 months ago

      Lobobrandon -- I am 77, and I hope -- with your kind of reasoning -- you will live this long. With my kind of reasoning I haven't seen a doctor in 15 years, haven't used any meds including those over the counter. I fall asleep in 3 minutes and sleep like a baby. I have read over thousand books on human nature, having meditated for several decades, became proficient at self-hypnosis, and can produce blissful emotions at will. The picture on my Profile was taken at age of 69.
      I don't expect from your kind of reasoning that you would fathom why I don't see what someone like me could possibly learn about life from someone like you. Grow some more, learn -- not necessarily from me, but be willing to learn without this silly intellectual arrogance of yours.

      When Castlepaloma started this forum, you could have allowed the man to have his personal dignity, like you are claiming one for yourself. But you chose to play a troll, playing a smart ass to an older person whom you should respect.
      We all have our good and bad points -- and I'd still have to discover what makes you so damn smart to talk from such a pedestal of knowledge. Practice some manners as well. Life will be easier on you. Who knows, maybe you'll find enough peace not to need any vaccines one day.

      Needless to say -- I am done here.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image76
        Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Enjoy your stay Val.

        Thankyou.

    12. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
      Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months ago

      If you inject something into your body,
      To do what the body should do for itself ...
      With its own intelligence,
      Is to make the body stupid.

    13. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
      Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months ago

      Its simple matter of understanding, acknowledging and respecting the body's ability to resist infectious germs and heal itself, which it has been doing successfully for eons of time.

      We have so little faith.
      Why be like that?
      Why?

      Most of the people who got the jab didn't need to ...
      at all.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image76
        Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Yes, Mother nature is the best healer on the Planet.

        Many in these newer generations. I don't know what, they are teaching them in these indoctrination camps. Or how much they spend on programming on factories, violence video games, commercials and TV.
        If they don't snap out of it, they may find more than 100 million dead, beyond my prediction estimate 10 years ago before they wake up to reality.

        I don't like Trump or poli_tricks, yet at least he was a great whistle blower.

    14. hard sun profile image81
      hard sunposted 13 months ago

      The CDC admits that IFR's are extremely difficult to come by accurately because they really have no idea how many people have had COVID due to all those asymptomatic carriers. We have NO WAY of knowing if these vaccines work. They'll have you believe that if you are fully vaccinated, get COVID, and don't die than it worked. Ridiculous.

      The CDC, WHO, MSM, etc. will  lie and lie about the virus origins yet some people have trouble believing they will lie about other aspects of the virus.

      1. Sharlee01 profile image83
        Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

        The CDC, Who, and IMO MSN have very long histories of problems with being truthful. Long before COVID. I am not sure why people aspect their information as factual. In my view, many are just grasping for anything even when the fact shows all three of the above mentioned have been caught in misinformation time and time again.

        1. hard sun profile image81
          hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          " In my view, many are just grasping for anything even when the fact shows all three of the above meisioned have been caught in misinformation time and time again."

          This is how I feel. I mean, even if every human being on the planet had an antibody test, still how are we to know the vaccines are working when the bar is set SO LOW.

          Apparently the UK antibody tests aren't all they were cracked up to be either": https://www.wired.co.uk/article/coronav … body-tests

          The scary thing to me is that this entire thing could be a warm up for the inevitability of another, more serious, virus escapes a lab, inadvertently or intentionally.

          Oh and Trump was correct about the WHO. I admit that Trump was correct about more things than I thought he was.  I still think he was wrong about a lot, but yeah.

          1. Sharlee01 profile image83
            Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

            I have the same fears of more viruses coming out of labs. The type of research such as taking animal viruses and making them infectious to humans is dangerous and is uncalled for.

            We need to find out why this virus was made, and how it escaped from the Wuhan lab, and the world should demand this kind of research be stopped. Will that happen, most likely not.

            I think Trump had a good agenda and did try to make things better for all Americans. His abrupt demeanor and some of his character flaws made it very hard for the majority to accept him as a presidential figure.

            He was very correct about WHO and the CDC in many cases he bucked them too.  I give him credit for bringing together the Operation Warp Speed team, and working hard to get the vaccine. Not sure where we would be if he did not take immediate action on making it possible to get the vaccine quickly.  He may have been observed as not taking the virus seriously, but I must say he quickly jumped into problem-solving mode.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image76
              Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              Since Biden term, he says vaccines will be stop at the end of May. Maybe half of Americans are vaccinated about the same rate as flu shots. Summer heat and air outdoors will lower the covid cases naturally, much like flu again.

              Wail Covid deaths has climb under Biden at a faster pace than Trumps % death covid period. My stats say President puppets only get worse.

              This is Psychological game not a true biological facts reality. Certainly an all over the map confusing harmful strategies.

              Will people accept a COVID-19 vaccine better or worse than the flu vaccine. Which are less than half of Americans get it each year. It going to take alot more than free donuts, pizza and  beer to bribe them and encourage for more covid vaccination.
              Vaccines already had a few recalls, owwopps.

              Government and technology corporations ban or pulled off almost all other alternatives medicine to treat covid cases. Makes me wonder like my tiny houses that were pulled off market because they were affordable to 90% of the public.

              What is it with peoples behaviors such as vaccination wont be dangerous to be given as blood donation. How is that health outcome turn out? .

              Gallup poll found deep skepticism among many Americans about a potential COVID-19 vaccine. 35% said they would not take a Food and Drug Administration approved vaccine, even if it were provided to them for free.
              And among Republicans, 53% of whom said they wouldn't take it either.
              Not counting children, how are they reaching herd immunity?
              They need everyone and stubborn individuals like me. To be above 90%, but that's not quite high enough. So, that still leaves room for outbreaks.

              Many People like myself have strong principled reasons being not for vaccination, or take prescription drugs. People taking them get sick more often, one way or another.
              Fact is that people don't do everything they should do to stay healthy. Like exercise, they do smoking, sugar and bad fats then concentrated on vaccination to fix it, so sad. Why would I accept a forced vaccines from the wealthiest pharmaceutical corp. making their best record profits ever. That's approved by the FDA, fear and death association?

            2. hard sun profile image81
              hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              IMO, we need someone that has a decent part of the Trump agenda, who is better with messaging to the entire US and is a bit more genuine. That's just me though.

              1. Sharlee01 profile image83
                Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                We need someone that is not afraid to level with American's, call put a problem for what it is, work to solve problems around a corrupt Congress( both parties), and just work for all Americans. Actually, I just described Trump.

                In my view, we are crashing and burning quickly... Biden is ill equipt as well are his handlers to run this country. They are quickly destroying all the positive Trump offered us.  Oh well, the people have spoken or should I say some of the people.

                1. hard sun profile image81
                  hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  I got things off topic but I'll say this before I'm done. Trump could only speak to a certain percentage of people. Of course, no candidate, especially these days, is going to be able to be able to bring all Americans together. But, take a few of Trumps core ideas, put them in a package that is more palatable, stop some of the lying, and maybe we have the best President of all time that can save the world. I don't think much of Europe is in a better position than the US right now.

                  Oh..and I didn't vote for Biden, I wrote in myself. If gain of function research must be done, they should do it on the moon under a glass dome.

                  1. Sharlee01 profile image83
                    Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    I agree with your sentiment.  We need someone younger with new ideas, and a few old ideas...Putting Americans first for a while was an excellent idea.

                  2. Castlepaloma profile image76
                    Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    Best vote one can ever make, is vote for yourself.

                    Do you best and the rest follows. Be an example on how others can do themselves  best.

                    JK
                    Not what the country can do for you.
                    It's what you can do for your country

                    1. MizBejabbers profile image85
                      MizBejabbersposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                      Yes, but Trump's motto was:

                      Ask not what I can do for my country,
                      Ask what the country can do for ME!

            3. abwilliams profile image68
              abwilliamsposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              I completely agree Sharlee. Trump stepped up. He was right about pretty much everything! Oh how I miss him and his “abrupt demeanor”!
              Give me him over Coma Joe any day! I can’t see Joe Biden standing up to China, but for our sake, I hope I am wrong.

              1. Sharlee01 profile image83
                Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                It is so important we get to the bottom of in regards to this Virus. Gain of function research is dangerous, and we need to ban it here in America. We have been doing this form of research for years, and China has also been doing it for many years. Do we need to have viruses as weapons?  This sickens me. And Old Joe is a hot mess, can't believe this man was voted in. Says a lot about American's, does it not?  I truly miss Trump, he knew how to solve problems, and was transparent, and did not speak down to the people. Biden has about one brain cell left, the one that tells him it's bedtime...

    15. abwilliams profile image68
      abwilliamsposted 13 months ago

      The "scary thing to me".....is that people no longer utilize their common sense, they just jump in without first testing the water for depth, crocodiles, freezing temperature.....! Too many people mindlessly jumped into the Hate-on Trump pool (I mean we've all seen the memes, 'Don't look at me, I voted for the mean tweeter', etc.) because that's the worst the haters could ever come up with that would actually stick....they didn't like his tweets!

      How much permanent damage has been done because we REFUSED to listen to Trump and while we were off on tangents and wild goose chases, our biggest enemy {China} was strengthening in power under the radar, doing...only God knows what!?
      (I think it is pretty safe to say that they've been up to no-good!)

      Sorry, am I off-subject?
      Okay, I am very good at predicting too.
      My Monopoly money's on and my support is with Castlepaloma!

      1. hard sun profile image81
        hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        I agree with your scary thing as well.

        I was never in the refusal to listen to Trump at all camp but some things, yeah, I didn't give the proper time to listen. I did hear him when he said that maybe, yes, the virus was made in the Wuhan lab though. It is so much easier to take the MSM word for things when we are busy, and Trump is an a-hole IMO. As you say though, that doesn't mean we should not take his word on anything.

        I'm with Castlepaloma here as well. I think Vitamin D can go a long way.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image76
          Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Gee, thank guys.

          Like the spainish flu transform into the Roaring 20s.
          Get ready for pendulum to swing the other way.

          Before you know it,  the spring like winter, will turn to a colourful life again. People will be dinning out, swimming, dancing and singing their hearts out. Can't wait to talk to beautiful women in Bikinis, wail I blow my gored building sand castle on the most beautiful beaches Nova Scotia.

          https://hubpages.com/my/photos/gallery

          1. Castlepaloma profile image76
            Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Crime has skyrocketing too. Many store chains are closing because theft is causing too great of lost to stay open.


            By the end of 2020, Chicago police reported more than 750 murders, a jump of more than 50% compared with 2019. By mid-December, Los Angeles saw a 30% increase over the previous year with 322 homicides. There were 437 homicides in New York City by Dec. 20, nearly 40% more than the previous. This is the stuff that always made headlines. Now covid is blamed for gang shooting drive by.

      2. Sharlee01 profile image83
        Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

        I so agree with all you have stated. And all is getting much worse under Biden.

        1. abwilliams profile image68
          abwilliamsposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          OMG don't get me started. Too late!!
          Lefty MSM types are now having to admit that Trump didn't collude and conspire with anyone and he was right about it being a China virus and it did come straight from the Wuhan Lab and he was right about hydrochloriquine...But, they were hellbent on getting rid of him and replacing him (with dynamic Joe Biden?!?!?) It was more important to them and to the leadership of the Dem Party and the left in general... than our safety and our lives!

          1. abwilliams profile image68
            abwilliamsposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Who doesn't get that yet?

          2. Sharlee01 profile image83
            Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

            It was about regaining power, and now we are stuck with that powerful dynamo Joe.  If only more American's could have waded through their hate, and used common sense they would have realized Trump was doing a good job running the country, and yes he was outspoken. Many of us like that form of communication.

            Now we have a man that is being told what to say and do... With a very destructive agenda.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image76
              Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              Sorry I don't have faith in the altright religious politics or alt leftism nationism and wokeness. Certainly mighty Joe is making it much worst.

              After both extremes abusive leadership. My gut tells me more middle independence and middle grounds to come in 2 to 5 years solutions. Like the Spainish flu to the Roaring 20s.

              Sharlee, thank for more awareness of wokeness.

    16. Castlepaloma profile image76
      Castlepalomaposted 13 months ago

      https://www.google.com/search?q=fauci+t … n4WLA,st:0

      Watch the pitch of the most influential man of our planet earth health organization.

     
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