Regarding levels of Trump support, why is race the determining factor?

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  1. Credence2 profile image82
    Credence2posted 6 weeks ago

    Excerpt from a University of Virginia exit poll for the Nov, 2020 Presidential election.

    https://news.virginia.edu/content/what- … telling-us
    -------
    Age: When it comes to age, the broad contours of the story look similar to 2016. Biden outperformed Trump among voters under the age of 45 (by a 15-point margin of 56% to 41%). Trump barely eked out a victory among voters ages 45 and older (50% vs. 49%). Even though Biden lost older voters – who comprised 60% of the electorate – he substantially chipped away at Trump’s 8-point margin in 2016. At the end of the day, though, race tells us more than age. Notice that Trump won every age group among White voters and Biden outperformed Trump among Black and Latinx voters of all ages. Notably, older Latinx voters (60-plus) were 10 points less likely to support Biden than younger voters (18-29), while older Black voters were most likely to cast a Biden ballot overall.
    _________
    Most disturbing is that among White people, Trump wins in every age group, male and female.

    While the exact opposite was true of Black and Latino voters in their support of Joe Biden. Statistics from other sources also indicate a preference for Biden among Asians, Jews and Indigenous people

    Inquiring minds want to know, is this any indication that the racial divide is growing larger? Any theories?

    How is it that only White people seem understand what it means to "Make America Great Again"? It would seem natural that that sentiment would be shared over a more diverse swath of the electorate and Trump's support reflecting this more broadly held understanding would be seen in the results.

    1. PrettyPanther profile image83
      PrettyPantherposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      I don't have an answer, credence. I was not aware that Trump won even among young white people. This is highly disturbing to me.

    2. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      Look at wealth (or income) by race.  Now compare it to voting by race, specifically for blacks.  Does that either answer your question or give rise to thought and/or further research?

      Examine Trump's policy on illegal border crossings and illegal aliens within our borders.  Now look at what the population, by race, thinks of illegal "immigration"...with a specific analysis of what Hispanics think.  Does that either answer your question or give rise to thought and/or further research?

      By "Asians" I assume recent immigrants, not third or fourth generation ones.  Take a hard look at Trump's demeanor and use of language.  Then compare Asians (in their home country to Americans and "politeness" (for lack of a better word) of the two.  Now compare Biden to Trump.  Does that either answer your question or give rise to thought and/or further research?

      Personally, I don't believe that your racist conclusion that only whites are smart enough to understand what it means to make a country - any country - great carries any water.  Truthfully it seems just another of your racist digs at whites, coupled with just another dig at Trump.

      1. Credence2 profile image82
        Credence2posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

        It has proven most difficult to get statistics as to the voting habits of more affluent blacks, say over 100K or so. I am still looking.

        Do you think that Hispanics vote for the Democratic candidate solely on the issue of open borders at the Southern Border? Most have not just recently jumped the fence but are established citizens, why would Trumps ideas not have appeal to them?

        Do you think "semantics" are the reason why Asians, overall relatively affluent, would overwhelmingly support Democrats. Most Asians are also established American citizens, why would they vote for Democrats and their ideals solely because of "politeness"?

        Politeness did not play a role in your decision to vote for Trump, why do you presume so for other people and groups, sounds stereotypical?

        My question has got nothing to do with racism. Has it ever occurred to you that different people and groups have differing ideas of what "makes America great"? So, it is not a matter of who is smarter, but whose opinion is the most viable depending upon points of view.

        Whites may have predominantly one view, while minority groups could clearly have another.

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

          Back up to even the average wage for Americans.  Say, 50 or 60,000.  Might be easier.

          Not semantics (Asians voting pattern).  And yes, I DO think that Asians recently immigrating to the country would vote against Trump because of his mouth, and in large numbers.  Millions of others did, too - it is probably the biggest single complaint about the President.

          It IS stereotypical.  Do you disagree that Asians are a very polite society, demanding it from everyone around when they can?  You might look up what it takes for a business to operate in China, and why they have specialists for the task.  I don't think it's merely to navigate the laws.

          Yes, I DO think different groups have different ideas of what it takes to Make American Great.  To a great many poor it means lots of charity.  To the ultra rich it means few laws in their way.  To the man-in-the street...I'd have to say there are lot of differences there.

          But you ask why only whites voted for Trump, and I gave the answer the question deserved.

          But whites do NOT have predominantly one view - one has only to look at liberals and conservatives to see that.  I WOULD say, however, that the poor have predominately one view (on some topics), that the rich have another and so on.  Color is not a factor except in the minds and eyes of those that put color first, ahead of everything else.

          1. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

            The thing about Asians,  Wilderness, is that their voting patterns are Democratic, consistently, so it is not just about problems with Trump.

            Why do you refer to Asians as if they are all  "fresh off the boat", no pun intended? We don't say that about Irish, Italians or Germans, people who have well assimilated into the culture. Asians are Americans and most have been such for some time.

            Again a little background

            https://theconversation.com/asian-ameri … lue-145577


            I did not say that only whites voted for Trump. I said that of all the demographic data available the only group who gave more votes to Trump than otherwise were non-Hispanic whites, all ages, male and female. That is not true of any other demographic group. The question remains, it may be more difficult to answer than it appears. Why is Trump and his agenda as to what comprises "Make America Great" so much more successful with them?

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

              Then you are asking why Asians vote Democrat, not against Trump?  I wouldn't have any idea, if it's true.  But I didn't say all Asians were just off the boat - the idea is that those that immigrated only a generation or less maintained strong links with their old culture.  Plus, of course, we have large "Chinatowns" in several cities - millions of people doing their best to maintain their old culture, right down to language.

              Perhaps only "non-Hispanic whites" (whatever that means - I've never understood the term) put a high value on self-reliance and self support.  Or perhaps only those "of color" are gullible enough to more easily swallow the liberal lies that a socialist country will be helpful to them as those evil white capitalists are stripped of what they built and it is given to colored folks.

              What do YOU think?  Is there something in the chemical "melanin" that creates dependency on government for day to day living needs?

              1. Credence2 profile image82
                Credence2posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                As for your paragraph 2, it is about what I expected from you as a response when push comes to shove, at least it is honest.

                Here is what I THINK, an excerpt from Vox Magazine

                1. "Perhaps there’s been little discussion about why white people voted for Trump because America has long taken for granted that white people will vote in their best interest — and that’s voting for whiteness regardless of their socioeconomic status or the level of education they’ve attained. There’s Trump’s most hardcore base — the vast majority of whom are white Americans who see no problem with what the president has said and done from the moment he announced his candidacy. They get riled up when he says “send her back!” of a congresswoman and tells the Proud Boys to “stand back and stand by” or when he implements a Muslim travel ban. “They’re aligned with him completely,” Laird told Vox."

                2."Then there’s another group of white voters who aren’t completely aligned with Trump but look past what they dislike about him in favor of his stance on the issues that concern them the most. For example, there may be Trump voters who disagree with Trump’s racist rhetoric but don’t care enough to be dissuaded from backing him because they are pro-life or in favor of gun rights or oppose tax increases on the wealthy. They may be able to conveniently look away from his child separation policies because they like his promise to put America first. Instead of grappling with why anti-racism protests broke in small towns and cities across the nation, they just want things to go back to normal; “law and order” seems like a good solution."
                --------
                ( sounds a lot like your position, Wilderness)
                -------------
                3. "Ultimately, many white voters are simply attached to what Trump represents. “These voters are very much about the idea that the status quo isn’t a problem and that we should make America great again back when we didn’t have to worry about PC culture,” Laird said. “Because when you’re in power, why would you give it up?”
                ---------

                Basically what you are getting across is that all those poor souls with an excess of melanin also have a deficit of gray matter? Of course, not smart enough to see what is clearly evident to the Caucasian voter? Rubbish and total bile. But I have been patiently waiting for you to admit this to yourself and the world around you.
                So, this is the true bottom line......

                1. wilderness profile image97
                  wildernessposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Can it be more racist than "whites will vote for whiteness"?  Or the implication that racist riots were because of Trump, or those whites that voted for Trump?

                  3) has some merit: Trump voters are attached to what Trump represents.  A strong business climate producing jobs and higher wages.  A return to recognizing that we are NOT the pocketbook for the world, that we WILL decide our own fate without foreign countries applying their agenda to Americans.  An end to illegal immigration, at least to the extent we can accomplish it.  Recognition that laws will be obeyed whether we like them or not.

                  No, Credence - I asked if YOU thought that "excess of melanin" (your words) produced a deficit of gray matter, or at a minimum an excess of gullibility.  Something you seem to advocate as you indicate that those people vote predominately Democrat and you can't figure out why.  Certainly I did not indicate that I hold such a ridiculous conclusion - I've listed several possible reasons right off the top of my head while you only complain that high levels of melanin produce liberal vote and you don't understand it.  Except as racist, although you didn't come right out and say it.

                  1. Credence2 profile image82
                    Credence2posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                    So, what does it mean to vote for whiteness? does that not imply the exclusion of others that are not white? What is the point of your first paragraph?

                    Your second paragraph are just more conservative talking points. We don't value the same things in the same context. Your views continue to remain, just that, your views, that were repudiated by an excess of 6 million votes.

                    Since you stated that increased amounts of melanin was correlated with greater dependence on government, etc, etc. I gave you the real reasons above and I stand by them, the excerpts in an earlier post.

                    Unfortunately, I believe that the first paragraph is the more accurate explanation as to consistent and relatively heavy Caucasian support. Because many non whites could vote for Trump on principles they support that Trump exemplifies while ignoring his crass style and race baiting politics by looking at the big picture.

                    But, whites would even be less concerned about Trump's verbiage, because it is not directed at them.

          2. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

            The polls exit polls do not make the distinctions in voter preference so much on economic differences, that would have been easy to see on its face. Poor white folks prefer Trump, and rich or relatively affluent black folks prefer Biden. So, in your one example, it has nothing to do with money.

            So, we acknowledge that there is not just one interpretation of MAGA. But allowing for all the different circumstances, race and ethnicity differences provide the strongest examples of stark differences in voter preference.

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

              You say the exit polls do not make distinctions in voter preference, and then go on to claim information on that very thing.  If not exit polls, where are you getting that information?

              You think race is the deciding factor?  What about youth - youth that almost votes lockstep Democrat?  Your problem, Credence, is that you see the world through the glasses of racism; race is more important to you than anything else, to the point that anything BUT race fades into the background and is ignored.

    3. Sharlee01 profile image85
      Sharlee01posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      Hard to say if the racial divide is deepening.  Just my view,  but it appears that thoughts on the severity of systemic racial problems differ by party, with white Democrats and white Republicans offering complete opposite views on the subject. Democrats black and white appear to think the bigger problem is people not seeing discrimination where it really exists.  And, IMO keep it on a "front burner". 

      Where  Republicans say the bigger problem is people seeing discrimination where it doesn’t really exist.  It seems to be how one perceives racism. Have some white people become tired of having to deal with something they just don't think exists to the extreme they are being told it does?

      1. Credence2 profile image82
        Credence2posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

        Well, Sharlee,

        I know that whites weary of the issue, why can't we just go back to the status quo, when everybody was happy in their appropriate places. If I were white, I probably  would say the same thing. A simpler time with ladies in their whalebone corsets and the black guys shining shoes for two bits.

        Republicans and conservatives say the discrimination complaints are exaggerated. But, which of them would walk a mile in my shoes, and qualify him or herself before rendering an opinion?

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

          "why can't we just go back to the status quo,"

          It is interesting that you repeatedly make this claim...a claim that I have heard not a single person (outside of you) support.  No one wants that - why do you keep repeating such an obvious racial epithet about conservatives?  There must be a reason?

          Perhaps you need to walk in the shoes of the white person, the one ignored, degraded and spit on by the occasional person no matter WHAT their color.  You might realize that this "systemic racism" is just an ordinary day for everyone on the planet - the only difference is that some of us ignore it and some actively search for any imagined slight and blow it into a mountain rather than a pebble.

          1. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

            Well, Trump does. The dog whistle he blew at white suburban females regarding the the "threat of low income housing" being built in their communities. The "reason" is that they are guilty.

            If you can say that "systemic racism" is not existent than you know about American History and the current state of social/economics that led to the accusations.

        2. Sharlee01 profile image85
          Sharlee01posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

          You may have missed the point of my comment. I certainly was not giving my own opinion on systemic racism. I was only giving a possibility as to why there is a racial divide.  I think it does in some respects involve party affiliation. But IIMO it's more about characteristic attitudes of the right and the left. It has become very clear over the past decade that right and left clearly think differently. 

          I disagree that conservatives don't recognize discrimination, they may just not agree with how it should be solved.  It would seem their logic of how to help very different than those on the left. For example ---  I feel opportunity zones or schools of choice are far more helpful than defunding the police or removing names from buildings. 

          Now my opinion in regard to some just wanting to go back to the status quo   -- I must agree the divide is deepening, and action is needed, not just words or deeds that on the surface will do little to solve any racial problems.  I don't think conservatives are weary of the problem but weary of watching meaningless solutions that never seem to meet the mark. And yes leaving the problem very much as status quo.

          1. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

            Yes, it is true right and left are quite different.

            Your second paragraph may well be one of the honest that I have heard to date. Folks get frustrated by problems that defy an obvious solution from the comfort zones that they have long resided within.

            I am for opportunity zones in principle, but they have to be pursued in earnest, if they were, Trump would have got the attention of more 'my tribe'.

            Removing the concept of public schools providing vouchers, just is another method of having tax money spent on 'white academies', where you can get the get the better education that money can buy. Those that want private schools can pay out of their own pocket.

            From my perspective, the goals of equal education opportunity is one that should be supported by the government, not who it is that has the most money or is the wealthiest.  The goal should be to continue to bear down on the public school system to improve.

            There are solutions and steps, but they would be anathema to conservatives, so they step away. Much like the Republican Party who ideals are contrary to any "real solution" to the problem, they just doubledown on the negative and contrary.

            1. Sharlee01 profile image85
              Sharlee01posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

              I must disagree with regard to your opinion on opportunity zones( Although I can understand you may not have realized the impact and money allocated to this program due to the media just did not give it any light).

              The Urban Institute, in a report issued in June, cited investment from OZ program of $10 billion.

              The Urban Institute, in a report issued in June, cited investment of “at least $10 billion.”

              John Lettieri, president, and CEO of the Economic Innovation Group estimates that the total is in the $25 billion to $30 billion has been provided.  “It’s worth celebrating, but it’s important not to be triumphalist,” he said. “This is very much a work in progress.”

              The National Council of State Housing Agencies maintains an Opportunity Zone Fund Directory. As of June 1, it listed 213 funds with a total of $47.2 billion provided in support for the program.

              The money seeded to be pouring in, although the program is fairly new only a year old it was just beginning to plan what poor communities would benefit directly. I do have my doubts that it will proceed the very businesses that we're backing it are promised to have their taxes raised substantially..  It was a wonderful idea, and one of the reasons I again voted for Trump. It got little media attention. This program would have helped many people that needed a leg up.
              .
              https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-st … mmunities/

              Yes, it is true that those with money can afford better educations. I believe in the program. And naturally, it would mean taking funds from the state's budgeted allotment for education. But it works to boost competition between public and private schools that compete for funds. To me, it comes down to common sense. For decades many of our public schools have failed our children, Time to move on and fix this problem. The competition will "beardown on public educators".   Progress is what this is called. Or keep the status quo, more cash poured into public schools without results. Done that...for decades.

              https://www.heritage.org/education/comm … ce-winning

              I am shocked that you don't realize the good path we were on. I blame this on media hype.  My gosh, you don't seem to realize Trump just was not really a typical republican, and he was solving so many problems. Democrats have never really done much for you, now have they? And what makes you think Biden will be any different?  I hope I am wrong, I love the country, but I see little coming but more words, no deeds.

              1. Credence2 profile image82
                Credence2posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                I really need to look at the pros and cons of this charter school stuff and crystallize my position more clearly. I naturally distrust conservatives and their initiatives for being 'helpful' but I will put aside that bias and look deeper.

                I don't know, Sharlee, when you consider the fact that almost 90 percent of African Americans voted the Democratic ticket , they must be doing something right relative to the Republicans. Obviously, myself and vast majority of Blacks have considerable confidence in Biden, but now we have to get rid of McConnell as Senate Majority leader, and then we will be 'cooking with gas'.

                All Republicans and their philosophy are the same, Trump exemplified more GOP and rightwing, right in line with Republican philosophy. There is hardly any daylight to be found between the mainstream Republican and Donald Trump.

                1. Sharlee01 profile image85
                  Sharlee01posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                  I agree with your sentiment that Trump is not a Republican. He is not a Dem either.  Not sure why Black American's stick with a party that actually IMO does nothing to improve on the clear problems Blacks have had for many decades. I think they actually keep them from progressing, but not willing to discuss that on an online forum. Can't do the subject justice.

                  And yes, it is very obvious the majority of black American's continue to vote Demacratic. This never ceases to baffle me.

                  Hard to say what kind of policies Biden will present to Black American's. It's always interesting to watch a new president and see if he keeps his promises. Although Biden did not really promise much. So I for one will like that and do not hope to hear anything too derogatory from those that voted for him due to imagining what he would do... Many are reading into what they think Joe should be expected to accomplish, without him ever committing to any real policies. Not sure he can be held accountable for other's thoughts on policies.

                  I can't agree that any of Trump's policies could be hooked to conservative policies. As a rule, Reps don't like to spend cash, they don't appreciate big Government in any form.  Most of Trump's accomplishment cost tons, and his actions such as building a wall, travel ban on states he considered to be responsible for terror, not to mention getting Mexican troops on the Mexican side of the border to help cut out illegal entry to the US, ICE ridding the country of thousands of MS13 thugs, not to mention the huge budget he got for military spending and creating a new space force. Not sure Trump should be looked at as conservative or a Republican. We have never in our history had a more progressive bombastic president. Never...

                  Again baffles me that so few noted this... Not sure what it says about American's ability to see what is right in front of us.

                  1. Credence2 profile image82
                    Credence2posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                    As to why African-Americans support Democrats


                    I know, where you live, do you have any black acquaintances or friends?Why not ask anyone of them that direct question and see what their answer is?

    4. Ken Burgess profile image90
      Ken Burgessposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      When it comes to age... I think Democrats have always held the advantage during our lifetimes, with young people.

      Young people are more open minded, have far less real world experience, have far less comprehension of economics and the reality of working hard for what you get.

      It is much easier to believe the "everyone deserves an equal slice of the pie no matter who they are or what they contribute" when you are young and have never had to struggle to pay the bills and care for family,.

      The majority of people become more conservative with age and experience.  However this is not always so, a good percentage become entrenched in their beliefs, become more jaded and prejudiced.

      Another thing about age, young people in general are more willing to try something new, they have less to lose and they have little in the way of assets.

      Compared to someone in their 40s, 50s, 60s that may have a house, or business, or 401K, or other assets they have spent many years of their lives working to build/earn.  They aren't so interested in the idea of doubling the tax rate on their home or new lock-downs that will cause them to go bankrupt.

      It is much less of a Race thing than an economic and political ideological one.  Political ideologies were militarized for this election, BLM, Antifa, etc. were a daily part of the news cycle for the past year, as was Covid and the lock-downs that shut businesses down... many for good.

      It will be interesting to see what happens to these issues after Biden has been sworn in.

      1. Credence2 profile image82
        Credence2posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

        Oddly enough, Ken, with advancing age, I have become more fervently left than I was in my relatively naive youth. You have to see how things Really work, verses the stuff of love it or leave it, or the "land of opportunity" or perhaps all the jingoistic nonsense about America being the "good guy" on the global stage.

        I believe that everybody should have an equal opportunity to acquire success, based on hard work and ability. When we are truly a society like this, I will be the first to stand down.

        I spent years at work, taking care of family and I am still more left than otherwise.

        If there is not some sort of parity as to how resources are allocated, ultimately it will all be taken down.

        I hold out the greatest hopes for Biden, but not until the Republican Party's defeat this election cycle is total and complete. We need Democratic control of the Senate and I have volunteered to work with Stacey Abrams toward that end.

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

          Ultimately the only resource that truly matters above all others is what we do with our time.  If we squander it sitting in front of a TV instead of working or learning, if we waste it on drugs or alcohol, if we throw it away producing children we cannot care for...well, it doesn't matter WHAT other resources are available for we cannot make use of them.

          On the other hand if we use our time wisely, pursuing our goal (whether wealth, fame, honor, family or anything else) then we don't really need anything else.  All will become available if we but use our time wisely.

          1. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

            Your examples are stereotypical and must be dismissed out of hand. Geez we all live in ghetto circumstances? So, we all like fried chicken and watermelon, too? (I do like my Popeyes, though)

            I want the resources to be available, I am not holding anyone responsible for opportunities that my group or any other fail to avail themselves of.

            Otherwise, you have such an Horatio Alger attitude about America, and it is quaint, if nothing else.

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

              Of course they are to be dismissed out of hand; the very thought that people are responsible for themselves, regardless of color, is not something that is well accepted among the poor that make little to no effort designed to improve their station in life.

              Perhaps you can convince "your group" that Dad go to school while Mom stays home with the 2 or 3 kids.  That they move from the ghetto (your word) to somewhere there are decent jobs.  That they should participate in their children's education, and that they should work to disband the gangs in their neighborhood.  That they should stay off the drugs and alcohol. 

              And while you're at it, convince those NOT of "your group" to do the same; those problems are not isolated to "your group", whatever you might designate that to be.

 
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