So if we understand the suit, the GOP wants states to send both sets of electors to Congress and the VP can determine which to count. Why are we even having elections then? The VP of the sitting party just chooses the president under this argument.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/gohmert-suit … 28724.html
https://news.yahoo.com/republicans-sue- … 00942.html
Simple . . . Gohmert should lose his seat.
After a bit of reading, it would appear Pence has a very small chance of pulling off choosing the next president. It will be interesting to see if he tries to. Pence has been off the stage for weeks, are they planning a surprise for Jan 6th?
At any rate, constitutional scholars and even members of the president’s own party say the effort is all but certain to fail.
What I read agrees with you. I can't see what Gohmert was thinking. Surely he must have had his proposition reviewed by Constitutional experts????
That leaves only one explanation—empty political grandstanding. I stand with my initial comment—he should lose his seat. He doesn't deserve the trust of his constituents.
In Gohmert"s case I agree his suit is a very poor example of grandstanding. It would well appear his suit would if it to gain legal traction, put Pence in the position of having to either contest the suit — putting him on the opposite side of Trump and his GOP defenders — or foolishly support it and lay bare the intention to subvert the will over the voters.
Or trying to organize a coup. Wouldn't that be a coup? Or it's a dictatorial take-over of the U.S. because we would never have another election again.
I don't think Gohmert's move is smart enough to be part of a coup.
Neither is Trump's, but 50 million of his supporters aren't smart enough break free of the realities he paints for them.
Once again coming out at Trump supporters labeling them as "not smart enough to break free"...
How many voted for Biden? By the way, did you? IMO opinion I actually feel the same in regards to anyone that could vote for Biden. I am actually baffled at the mindset of the nation. You see we have something in common, we both think many Americans, how did you put it? --- "not smart".
My vote was for any candidate not Trump in this election, similar to Steve Schmidt of the Lincoln Project, who noted that he is now a one-issue voter, those who support democracy. That ruled Trump out, and a significant number of Biden voters fell into that category in this election. A fair number realized that Trump rebelling against the basic science of the Coronavirus was a critical threat to the nation and the citizenry, and likely cast their vote against him for that reason.
Now what I was talking about was not all those who voted for Trump, but the 50 million or so still clinging to the claim of fraud even though the courts, election officials, FBI, and Attorney General have all debunked it. Those willing to accept that false reality lack the common sense to know when they are being lied to, and it's sad.
Let's take Georgia as an example. Trump posts every other day asking when Georgia is going to do a signature verification. Three were already done, he just won't accept that. Then he claims there is fraud, but he has yet to explain how the audit of the paper ballots confirming Biden's win could be fraud. He has accusations, but zero proof that any ballots were fraudulent. Maybe you can explain where that fraud is in Georgia. You seem to clearly believe it exists. Give us specific examples of it. Let's hear the case.
I have made every attempt to not point my finger in any direction in regard to the types of fraud that was committed in the election. I will repeat, I respect the 250 some whistleblowers right to be heard in regards to their reports of voter fraud. I want every one of the allegations investigated, and if fraud was committed I want the perpetrators charged and punished. I want all allegations in regards to the Dominion voting machines invertigated. I don't need to offer examples, neither do I need to accept there was no fraud. The fact is that many have stepped up and claimed they witnessed fraud.
I for one am not ready to dismiss all these citizens and ignore the accusations. I no longer trust our voting system period!
Hopefully, on Jan 6th this mess is will see the cold light of day. Time for an investigation, one that has first-hand human beings with faces and names. Not faceless leakers, he told me this, or sources tell me, Pretty much done with that mentallity, and those that assribe to it.
I, too, would enjoy reading all those affidavits of voter fraud examples. If they are so credible, why are they not published for the public to read and scrutinize?
The examples we have seen, for example, the driver who said he delivered between 750 and 2,500 absentee ballots from NY to PA, are easily explained before being totally distorted by conservatives. One conservative story reports that he delivered up to 200,000 ballots. The next story I read had the figure at 300,000. Even Peter Navarro's report put the figure at 200,000 even though the driver's estimate was no where near that amount, and the 750 to 2,500 could easily be explained with absentee ballots from those attending college out of state.
When conservative media and officials in the Trump administration distort the truth that badly, as shown in that example, it's easy to dismiss the claims.
In the thread created by Mike pertaining to Navarro's report, he even includes a section on bribery that he alleges was committed. However, the allegation he includes had been debunked as a legal process two weeks prior by a judge in the state where his accusation had occurred. This wasn't proof of fraud, but a failure to accept reality. Yet, that didn't stop Navarro from using that debunked scenario and creating one of his six categories (bribery, with that as the only example) of what he deemed voter fraud and publishing it.
60 of 61 cases, some certainly with these types of allegations were presented to judges. Speculative and lacking is what they all found. Not one single judge found a case of fraud - the case won was to allow poll watchers a bit closer.
The video in Georgia - debunked. Dominion - can you explain how the paper ballots match the machine tallies? I keep asking and you keep ignoring that critical point.
This article goes into great detail on why there were issues. A recruited Trump poll watcher was given one twenty minute video prior to his shift by the Trump Campaign on what to watch for. Here is what the judge had to say when he saw the affidavit from that poll watcher: “Perhaps if Plaintiffs' election challenger affiants had attended the October 29, 2020 walk-through of the TCF Center ballot counting location, questions and concerns could have been answered in advance of Election Day.
“Regrettably, they did not,” the judge wrote. “Plaintiffs' interpretation of events is incorrect and not credible.”
https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/ … 425725002/
Another example of fraud claims just not holding up when scrutinized: https://www.ajc.com/politics/election/g … 66Q2GBQCE/
My favorite affidavit though had to be this one from Michigan: https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/ … 829654001/
There is little doubt that if there was massive fraud, Republican judges would be more than happy to hear the evidence presented by viable witnesses.
There's also little doubt that if there was massive fraud, Democrats would have taken back the Senate and gained in the House.
Who was talking about Trump? As for the 50 million supporters thing . . . you can hang on to that thought, I have enough of a problem just judging my own motivations.
If every congressperson resigned for hair brained ideas and comments we'd have a swinging door of people leaving the halls of Congress.
I didn't mean "resign," I said, "lose." I think the voters should boot him.
But you are right about those swinging doors. Maybe that wouldn't be such a bad idea. Toss a few out the door and maybe some of the others would get the message. It happened to the Republicans back in 96'(?) when voters reacted to his Contract with America.
And now Trump has said the same thing as Gohmert: Pence should be able to throw out electors he doesn't like. In other words, no matter how the voters vote, the current Vice President should be able to decide the winner of a Presidential election.
I would submit what we're seeing now is the failure of Democracy and the end of America. Thanks, Donald Trump.
Nice to see you again, Valeant.
Would Pence dare to light the equivalent of another Reichstag Fire?
These conservatives, Republicans or Trumpers, whatever the nom de jour is these days, have to gall to basically circumvent the Democratic process and call themselves patriots? The fact that so many of them have just acquiesced themselves over this matter for so long leaves me suspect about the sentiments and motives of almost half of this nation.
Who would have thought that such tyrannical and undemocratic behavior would even be tolerated in America today? It breaks down to the principle of the thing
I am appalled.
They would say under the same circumstances, that the Left would behave the same way, well, to date they have not and that is good enough for me.
The Right wingers again prove themselves as nothing more than tyrannical beasts. But they had better move on, because we will not sit still for it.
Vice President Pence on Thursday asked a federal judge to dismiss a far-fetched bid by Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) and other Republicans to broaden Pence’s powers in a manner that would effectively allow him to overturn President-elect Joe Biden’s electoral win.
A federal judge has thrown out a lawsuit from Rep. Louie Gohmert of Texas and several Arizona Republicans seeking to force Vice President Mike Pence to help throw the election to President Donald Trump next week when Congress meets to count the Electoral College votes.
Judge Jeremy Kernodle of the Eastern District of Texas said on Friday that Gohmert and the others lacked standing to sue. In a filing late Friday, Gohmert and other plaintiffs filed a notice of appeal to the Fifth Circuit of the US Court of Appeals.
This constant refrain of "I just want the whistleblowers to be heard" is complete bull$hit. The whistleblowers have been heard and were found to be not credible. There were over 60 court filings; there were investigations and hearings in every state where misconduct was alleged. Any of these people can speak at any time should they choose. Sidney Powell has posted her 200-page report for all to see.
This refrain of "I just want the whistleblowers to be heard" is just Trumpers holding onto their desire to see the election overturned. They don't really care about the Constitution, their Republic, the legal system, or what is right. They simply want their idol to remain in power.
It's pretty disgusting, actually, and I think we should ignore their continued, pathetic attempts to justify their desire to ignore the will of the people and install a dictator. They've made their case and it's delusional and sad. Time to move on and let them stew on it with each other. Nothing rational will sway them. They've staked their ground and will defend it no matter how many crazy, drunken, ill-informed "whistleblowers" are heard and debunked.
With that, I'm outa here until that incompetent bully is removed from the White House. Let the Trumpers boil in the toxic stew they've created.
Okay --- Thanks for sharing your opinion. We all have one. I think we fully agree on one thing, time to move on. There will be lots of new things to talk about in the new year. I think we could agree on that also.
With the President calling on the Georgia Sec. of State to "find" enough votes to overturn the election, I'm not sure we can move on anymore. Trump should be impeached or resign in complete disgrace. Anybody who cares about the future of this country needs to call on Trump to resign. If not, then we accept this behavior and should expect it in the future. Future Presidents will now have the precedent of pressuring states to change votes.
Making that request might be the most outrageous and morally repugnant thing any President has ever done. Also, the most anti-American.
It's a shame he had to take these drastic steps to keep some confidence in our voting system. If the investigation is done and shows there has been little fraud, you do not have anything to worry about. If tons of fraud occurred, he has every right to dispute the outcome of the election.
" Ted Cruz --- "We should follow that precedent," Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, and 10 other current and incoming senators said in a joint statement, referring to the race between Hayes and Samuel Tilden. "To wit, Congress should immediately appoint an Electoral Commission, with full investigatory and fact-finding authority, to conduct an emergency 10-day audit of the election returns in the disputed states. Once completed, individual states would evaluate the commission's findings and could convene a special legislative session to certify a change in their vote, if needed."
I just put together a thread on this subject.
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/350 … -election-
Maybe they could present some actual evidence of fraud first and not call for a commission that has no basis to exist. Republican judges have ruled. The Supreme Court has ruled. That's called the "rule of law". I thought we were supposed to respect it. Instead you want a commission of political hacks?
Hate the break it to you, but Trump formed a commission on voter fraud after the last election, which he said was rigged. They disbanded because they didn't find anything. Trump has had the last four years to investigate this. He's found nothing.
What happened to respect for the Constitution? Apparently, that no longer exists either.
Why even bother? Let's just let Ted Cruz decide our next President.
No, no, no. Not Ted. If somebody has to decide let's at least make it Pence. He at least appears to have some integrity.
It is very apparent many American's are not satisfied that the fraud accusations have not been addressed, In my case, I have discovered in the majority of the laws suits evidence was not presented, due to the cases arguing state voter laws, and many other reasons. Most cases were tossed out on procedure problems. I realize here on this forum many feel differently about the mutipul lawsuits. However, millions of American's feel differently and are not satisfied with being told there was no fraud.
I am very aware of President Trump 2016 commission to investigate voter fraud in the 2016 election. I am aware little was found, and the committee soon ended. In 2016 we did not have 250 citizens claiming they witnessed irregularities. We are at a stalemate in regards to
agreeing on if the allegations have been heard.
What happens to the Consitution? Today you will see it alive and well when Ted Cruz and other GOP representatives fight to have an investigation on the last election, he will speak for millions of people that are not satisfied with shutting out the voices of whistleblowers.
We need to fight in the glare of irregularities or those irregularities will become the norm...
Ted Cruz is not disputing the election, he is asking Congress to listen to many citizens that no longer trust our voting system. A two-week investigation, he is asking no more no less.
"Ted Cruz --- "We should follow that precedent," Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, and 10 other current and incoming senators said in a joint statement, referring to the race between Hayes and Samuel Tilden. "To wit, Congress should immediately appoint an Electoral Commission, with full investigatory and fact-finding authority, to conduct an emergency 10-day audit of the election returns in the disputed states. Once completed, individual states would evaluate the commission's findings and could convene a special legislative session to certify a change in their vote, if needed."
Why do you find this request unconstitutional?
Why? Trump tells his followers it's going to be a rigged election prior to the election. His poll watchers show up, in many cases ill-prepared, primed to see fraud - even when no fraud exists.
States, the courts, the DOJ, and the FBI found no instances of systemic voter fraud already. Georgia did multiple recounts and an audit and debunked every one of Trump's claims on that phone call. So many of Trump's claims, in fact, have been debunked.
And this election was going to be irregular - it was one of only two to be held during a pandemic. Not sure why everyone is up in arms about that. Or why states trying to protect their citizens from a deadly virus while also letting them exercise their Constitutional rights is something that should be resisted, especially when many states had been using the solution with very little fraud since the 90's. Another instance of Trump disputing that fact with zero evidence, that mail-in ballots have been found to be very secure.
These allegations have been looked into and dismissed. If Congress wants to investigate further, nothing is stopping them currently. But to stop the legal process when actual evidence has been completely lacking is just allowing Trump the extra time to try and subvert our Constitution further.
As of today, he has not subverted our Constitution. Today The U.S. Congress will convene to set the seal on President-elect Joe Biden’s victory.
Ted Cruz has claimed he will object, he has a constitutional right to do so. Let's wait and see how this plays out. I think in the end our Constitution will be considered above all. Hopefully, Congress will do the right thing, and respect the Constitution. I have provided a link that fully gives Ted Cruz's explanation of what he will do today , and that what he is asking for is constitutional.
https://www.cruz.senate.gov/?p=press_re … mp;id=5541
Listen to the call:
What he's done is a criminal offense and he should serve time in jail for it. Title 52 U.S. Section 20511.
Basically, if you attempt to deprive or defraud the residents of a state of a fair and impartially conducted election process (which has been confirmed in Georgia three times with audits and recounts), you are subject to a prison sentence.
It just seem like the GOP Congressmen simply want Pense to declare Trump the winner without justification or even any serious consideration of material evidence regarding fraud, one way or the other.
Are Conservatives naturally tyrannical?
I don't think that these guys are serious as they know that they cannot win, they are simply protecting themselves politically from the wrath of Trump and his supporters.
Who is this guy, who is the lamest of lame ducks, and why does he have so many intelligent people shaking in their boots?
THis is what they hope to do --- "Ted Cruz --- "We should follow that precedent," Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, and 10 other current and incoming senators said in a joint statement, referring to the race between Hayes and Samuel Tilden. "To wit, Congress should immediately appoint an Electoral Commission, with full investigatory and fact-finding authority, to conduct an emergency 10-day audit of the election returns in the disputed states. Once completed, individual states would evaluate the commission's findings and could convene a special legislative session to certify a change in their vote, if needed."
I just put up a thread on this subject...
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/350 … -election-
Another morsel of agony ?
What about this Sharlee. It has appeared over a wide swath of legitimate news outlets.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administra … 6k-ballots
by firstname.lastname@example.org 3 days ago
Senator Hawley, concerns are that state election laws were not followed, megacorporation's Facebook and Twitter's unprecedented interference in the election, lack of investigations into voter fraud by congress. For these reasons he will object to the electoral college results....
by crankalicious 6 days ago
This is your President:a man who claims fraud in the 2016 election and organizes a committee to find fraud which fails and disbands.a man who again claims fraud in the 2020 election before the election even happens and does not commit to the peaceful transfer of power.a man who claims fraud after...
by Scott Belford 31 hours ago
On Wednesday, Jan 6, 2021, while Congress was attempting to certify Joe Biden as having won the election to become the next President of the United States, Donald Trump was exhorting the mob he had spent the previous week or two calling together to attack Congress and stop the process. He...
by crankalicious 8 days ago
MAGA nation along with people like Michael Flynn are calling on President Trump to invoke The Insurrection Act to overturn the election and keep Trump in power.This would allow President Trump to use the military to keep Biden from becoming President and to put down and resulting protests.Do you...
by Kenna McHugh 2 weeks ago
Have you noticed that Trump supporters are not rioting? Why is that? From a friend: Copied and pasted - info from some of the lawyers from my group: Ok in a nutshell. This is going to the Supreme Court. Where they will rule that the election is invalid due to fraud or mistakes on a country...
by Readmikenow 10 days ago
"It's why White House trade adviser Peter Navarro has compiled a comprehensive report to back the Trump campaign's claim of "theft by a thousand cuts."Titled "The Immaculate Deception: Six Key Dimensions of Election Irregularities," it employs charts and other graphics to...
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