Before anyone asks,I am opposed to making Juneteenth a Federal Holiday

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   Credence2posted 2 years ago

   I think that making Juneteenth a Federal Holiday is a step too far. Unlike the King holiday that commemorates the nationwide struggles of those not considered part of the dominant culture and reminds all of the need to attain to a higher standard, this observance is more localized and while splendid, it is in the realm of Mothers Day, Valentines Day, St. Patrick's Day, etc. These observances are not Federal holidays.
   
   How am I ever going to get the Federal workforce to go to work?
   
   This is pandering, I want more substantive policy changes from Mr. Biden and the Democrats and that is going to take more work and focus.
   
   Your thoughts.....

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      wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Googling "juneteenth" I see it is about the end of slavery in America.
      
      But slavery ended with the emancipation proclamation in Sept. 22, 1862, although it took many years to enforce it.  And still does as we still have slavery going on in this country.
      
      So...if we wish to celebrate the end of slavery with a holiday (not totally unwarranted IMO) the proper date is Sept. 22, not sometime in June when one effort in one location was made to enforce the national law against slavery.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Apparently, many have been celebrating this day ("when one effort in one location was made to enforce the national law against slavery,") on their own.
         So, mandating it as a national/federal holiday for a minority of people has made THEM happy.
         
         
         ... so, Good.
         We can leave it at that.
         
         Or can we?

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         Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

         I appreciate the thought, but I don't think that it warrants another federal holiday. I need the President to work on the legislation that is in contention now.

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         MizBejabbersposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Wilderness, the Emancipation Proclamation ended  slavery only in the Confederate states. Four border states were allowed to keep their slaves: Missouri, Kentucky, Delaware and Maryland. (President Lincoln didn't give a damn about slavery, he just wanted to strike a blow at the Confederacy.)  Congress passed the Fourteenth Amendment, which was ratified July 9, 1868, and that made slavery illegal in the United States.
         https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

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      Kyler J Falkposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Just put my two cents in over on Kathryn's post about the matter, so I won't repeat myself in any real detail here. Agreed, though, a giant virtue-signal with very little substance that will come from the decision.

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         Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks, Kyler.

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            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            what "substance" do you want?

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      Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I completely agree with you.
      
      What do you think of Candace Owens take on it?
      
      "Candace Owens Says Juneteenth Gives Black People 'Perpetual Victim Mentality'
      
      "Conservative political pundit Candace Owens said she won't be celebrating the new federal holiday of Juneteenth, suggesting that the move to commemorate the end of slavery in the U.S. is just the Democrats trying to "repackage segregation."
      
      "This is not a holiday. This is more emotional training from Democrats to see ourselves as somehow separate from America. Independence Day is July 4th. The end."
      
      Owens then continued to attack Juneteenth and "segregationist" Biden, suggesting that choosing to remember the "terrible toll that slavery took on the country—and continues to take" is an example of "emotional programming for black people that choose to opt in to the perpetual victim mentality."
      
      In another tweet Thursday, Owens wrote: "This is your daily reminder that immigrants from Africa as well as the Caribbean are among the most successful ethnic groups in the country.
      
      "America doesn't discriminate against people based on skin. Black Americans are just focused on meaninglessness like 'Juneteenth.'
      
      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … uxbndlbing

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         Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

         I don't know if I buy in to Candace's explanation.  It is just a superfluous gesture only to the extent of making it a federal holiday. There is nothing wrong with remembering and taking note of history if for no other reason so that we prevent its reoccurrence through any manner or method.
         
         What is it they say about remembering history to avoid a repeat......

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            wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            If that were the case we wouldn't be trying to destroy and hide our past.  We would be making it MORE visible, not less.

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      Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      "This is pandering, I want more substantive policy changes from Mr. Biden and the Democrats and that is going to take more work and focus.
      
      Your thoughts....".
      
      I am sticking with my analysis of Biden in regards to my opinion before he was elected. He made tons of unrealistic campaign promises. As a man that has been in Washington using the same pandering ploys for many years, I in no respect think he has changed over the years.   IMO he has been very dishonest making promises he well knew he could not really produce. In reality, Juneteenth should do the trick to maintain the majority of the black vote. Hey, history shows blacks stick with the Democratic party no matter what.
      
      This man panders to all, but he certainly needs to do some heavy pandering to black citizens, to keep their vote.

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         Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

         The Republicans have worked equally hard to avoid considering our vote and our concerns. Who do you think I am going with if I had a choice?

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            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            what is your proof?"  RE: The Republicans have worked ... hard to avoid considering our vote and our concerns."
            No, they have not and why would they????????

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               Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

               Well, ask why 80 to 90 percent of African Americans consistently cast their ballots for the Democratic candidate? They can well speak for me.

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      Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      After thinking a bit about Juneteenth, yes I truly think the Democrats put Biden up to pandering to Black American's... But I think many Black Americans would appreciate the day being a day set aside to remember the day slavery was no more, and honor relatives that were freed on that day.   So many black citizens have very little opportunity to trace their lineage due to slavery. Perhaps this special day would offer many a day to honor slaves, and those that were freed on Juneteenth. So, many were nameless... So many although free, never had a true family name.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         you are settling, but you are very kind. We do not need to look backward. We need to look forward and that's what we were doing.

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            Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            I think you hit on my very point. I did take time to think about Juneteenth for a bit. But your words will help me explain my feelings more clearly. In many respects, we don't need to dwell on the past. I have said it frequently, I don't feel in any respect responsible for slavery, something that happened hundreds of years ago. However, one can only imagine being one of those slaves that found themselves free on that day. What they felt, what they had lost, what they faced in regards to a future without much of anything but the clothes on their backs. They had no real names other than a name they were given, their linage gone... Most just taking names that were that of their owners.
            
            I think these people deserve to be remembered, I think Black citizens that want to honor their relatives, known and unknown should have a holiday to do so.
            
            I know many in the media and online are making analogies, feeling this will set precedence for many holidays that are being labeled frivolous.  Slavery was not frivolous, it was not a war or religious reason for a holiday. It was a crime against humanity. So, could we not be more human and remember the day they felt freedom?  We do need to look forward, but  I feel this holiday is a step forward... I don't feel responsible for slavery, I do feel responsible for respecting those that are on this earth that share a linage with slaves.

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

               ... but who will explain it like this? and why not allow them to celebrate, independently of the whole nation? and I still do not know why we need to even pinpoint it. We are all people with nameless ancestors. It's the human condition. I don't even know the heritage of the generations before my grandfather and what THEY went through ... so many people have had very very difficult distant past story lines. Many people in America have escaped other situations involving crimes against humanity.
               
               We celebrate every day, every single day ... by pressing forward in positivity and determination for the future.
               TWISI

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                  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  "We are all people with nameless ancestors"
                  
                  have you ever checked out Ancestry? I joined and was so shocked I could trace my relatives back to the 1600s. I was not aware of relatives that would go past my grandparents. The majority of blacks in America can't trace their lineage due to a lack of records of slaves. They had no real last names, most only a first name that was given them at birth, and on the census were listed as nameless slaves by age and gender.
                  
                  I guess I feel a day of remembrance would be a positive step of respect to the millions of slaves that had no power even to demand a name.  In a country that saw them as having no rights whatsoever.
                  
                  I see the holiday as a positive step forward. I feel it offers a day set aside to offer remembrance and respect to those that were lucky enough to have lived to tell the story., and pass it down to generations.   I don't feel we are responsible for slavery, but we can face that it was a very sad part of our history. Could a Holiday such as Juneteenth not remind us that our history shows we as a people did participate in enslaving
                  human beings, and also as a nation came to see the sin of slavery and fought to end slavery.

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                     Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                     I was broadsided and did not expect this sort of response from you. Why can't more of the people on your side be as honest and forthright?

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                        Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                        If cut will I not bleed ... LOL   
                        
                        I think due to spending so many years at a large hospital I met and cared for so many people, young, old, and in-between. I don't think anyone could be called the same.  I came to appreciate the uniqueness of individuals.  It's hard for me to understand the rigidness we take on when it comes to politics.

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                     Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                     If such a holiday will help them help themselves, then the holiday is
                     is worthwhile. It will help them understand their present condition relative to the past. It will help to increase self-awareness and encourage self-appreciation.
                     
                     I have always thought that their ancestors should be acknowledged for the strength and ability to endure what they did.
                     
                     Thank you, sharlee, for pressing on in regards to embracing this federal holiday.

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                        Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                        I will admit at first I sort of just passed the report of Juneteenth by. But, I got to really thinking about it. What it might mean to many. Thank you for posting the thread.

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                           Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                           This one is Credence 2's
                           

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      Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Will Juneteenth be celebrated in this tradition yearly. Crowd twerks on an ambulance as EMTs respond to a fatal shooting at Juneteenth event.
      
      First responders with Falck Alameda County Emergency Medical Services were responding to a Saturday evening shooting during a Juneteenth event at Oakland’s Lake Merritt, where one person was killed and seven others were wounded, officials have said. Video shared on Twitter by user @Anthea06274890 shows EMTs loading a gurney out of the ambulance as a crowd gathers and begins to twerk against the vehicle.  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … oting.html
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxnlGxpEKT4
      
      I really felt this holiday would be a good thing and a holiday that would spread goodwill and remembrance. It more appears it a holiday that promoted rioting, violence. In no way do I say this lightly --- But this kind of activity could stand to confirm the stereotype that Blacks are lawless, and care little about killing their own. This display was disgusting, and one man lost his life.

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         Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Oakland has always been a relatively high crime area. Nothing new there, so, why associate that with the revelers for Juneteenth?
         
         When I think of how those "patriots" of January 6th smeared feces throughout the Capitol building,  it makes me realize that stupidity knows no particular color, ethnic group or creed.
         
         Criminals are criminals, don't make the unfair association of that with just being black people.

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            Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            I am not making a comparison that was actually that was you with your statement ---"  it makes me realize that stupidity knows no particular color, ethnic group or creed."
            
            Read my comment more carefully. I was pointing out an incident that occurred at a gathering that was to celebrate a holiday. It does not matter if it occurred at an Easter Parade. I then gave a description of the incident, I did not mention race in any respect.
            
            I went on to give my view where I said " But this kind of activity COULD stand to confirm the stereotype that Blacks are lawless, and care little about killing their own."   In the past, as today our society does stereotype people, and one such oversimplified image of blacks is that Blacks do not care about black-on-black crime.   I am very sure and hope that not all white people don't hold that belief.  But, there is a segment that does...  That is simply what I shared.
            
            I will say lately we are lucky if a day goes by where our media is not reporting some horrific black-on-black crime. So, stereotyping gains credence.

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               Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

               It was difficult to sort out to subject of race from the general nature of your comment.
               
               Insane things happen, Sharlee, period. They can occur by anyone, anywhere.
               
               We have stereotypes regarding "white folks" and the nature of this society in general, are we to accommodate these biases into our thinking? The biases and stereotypes the whites hold are understandible, but the ones we have are unreasonable? Yeah, sure.
               
               All these stereotypes is just another symptom as to why we don't get along as well as we can.

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                  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't think I was saying white stereotypes are understandable, and that black stereotyping of whites is unreasonable. But I see your point, it is prevalent in today's society.    Perhaps I chose the wrong words? I was pointing out that the behavior of some at the celebration supported some stereotypes of Black not having a problem with Black on black crime.  I was disappointed at how Juneteenth was being celebrated with a riot and a man being shot and many injured. 
                  
                  I agree that stereotyping is a big part of why we have a hard time getting along. Bias thinking is caustic.

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                     Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                     Well, we have to say that the "celebrations" in Oakland that day, is not uncharacteristic of many celebrations that can get out of hand for any number of reasons.

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                        Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                        I agree...

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

   Yes, will this day off 
   1. Lower crime rates?
   2. Increase love and acceptance?
   3. Promote non-racist dialogue?
   4. Eliminate issues born from racism?
   5. Ensure a brighter future for everyone?
   6. Provide an overall positive outcome for those who celebrate it?
   7. Provide an overall positive outcome for victims of racial injustice?
   (Thanks, Kyler J Falk )

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

   You are a victim?
   How so? Maybe its just your imagination!
   If many blacks feel that they are victims, perhaps this is merely a common delusion!
   Maybe if they stop imagining they are victims, they could move forward on their own two feet.
   
   ...  as so many blacks have done ever since the first day they were free.
   
   Accept the freedom! It's yours for the taking!
   I say.

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      Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Just like you rightwinged oriented whites, gun nuts and militarists, some candidates and philosophies are more in line with our interests than others.
      
      My "imagination" has been pretty spot on over my lifetime.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         - you mean your sub-truth.
         What is your subjective truth?

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

   if you are a black, focus on the education of your people. Early education and strong family structure is the foundation of your success.
   No excuses.

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      Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      We need to work on that as well, but the things I speak of need be part of mutual exclusive, one verses the other. We work on ALL aspects.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         - what are the things you speak of
         s p e c i  f  i c a l l y ,  and realistically and truthfully?

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            Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Voting rights reform, and I already told you about these and infrastructure reform as just an example.

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

               what "infrastructure reform" would you like to see?

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                  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  Inexpensive education availability, why not get people off from the welfare rolls into tax paying jobs?
                  
                  Investing in people rather than things to prepare people for the jobs of the future. You can bet that China as an adversary is grooming their people for what's next.

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                     Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                     interesting. I would like proof China is focused on STEM and that the people are being educated for jobs of the future. Maybe the elite ones ...
                     
                     Also, if they're not educating themselves or given the opportunity to educate themselves, what does it matter?

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

   is education so hard to get for blacks?

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      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      News flash:
      Its hard for anyone to get a good education these days.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

   "Investing in people rather than things to prepare people for the jobs of the future. You can bet that China as an adversary is grooming their people for what's next."
   
   ... you mean work camps?

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      Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      China has more STEM graduates than Europe or the United States, you really believe that they are being trained in work camps?

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         Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Yes indeed.  They are producing 8 times the amount of grads that America does.
         
         And thanks for bringing Juneteenth up, I thought it strange that a particular company was taking the day off, now I know why.

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            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            p r o d u c i n g  grads?

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