Who is to Blame for the Fiasco in Afghanistan - Biden or the Military

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   RJ Schwartzposted 3 years ago

   Politico, a far-left Democrat website reports that President Joe Biden refused to be swayed by his top generals to keep 3,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan, instead ordering their swift removal, a stubbornness that "paved the way for havoc" in the country,
   
   About 4 weeks ago, General Mark Miley touted that the Afghan security forces were ready to take over  The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters during a press conference with Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin that despite the narrative that the Taliban is winning, the Afghan Security Forces “have the capacity to sufficiently fight and defend their country.”
   
   Now the world is faced with a crisis that could upset the balance of global power.

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      Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Buckle up we have three more years of this a president that has no skills to carry out his job.  Hold on he is just getting started.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         why allow it?
         W H Y?

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            Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

            IMO It is very hard to impeach a president once they have the job.

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      peterstreepposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Biden did not start this war. He is only cleaning up the mess from all the presidents before him who continued this war.
      Staying in Afghanistan means. more deaths and it's nothing but colonialism.
      Biden has the guts to stop this war. Something Obama and Trump should have done but didn't have the guts to do so.
      It's not going to be pleasant but the US and the west shouldn't have been there in the first place.
      So yes, this is a good decision. Let Afghanistan be for the Afghan people.
      I don't agree with the vision of the Taliban. But this is an internal struggle. It needs time and fighting from within. But a moralistic point of view from the outside will never be accepted.
      What would you think if the US was occupied by the Saodies forcing their morality on you?
      Every country needs to find its own way. So yes, a great and courageous decision of Biden.

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         Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         'Something Obama and Trump should have done but didn't have the guts to do so.'
         
         Not exactly a true statement since it was Trump who negotiated the treaty to remove America from Afghanistan.

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            peterstreepposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            I don't know how complex these talks were. But to me talking and doing are two different things.

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            Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Trump had an agreement and kept to it It was Biden that did not keep the agreement after Trump left office.  Trump had evacuation covered in the agreement. Biden should have respected the previous president's contact and had us out by May first.  Biden does not follow our laws if they don't suit him, he does not follow previous US agreements if they don't suit him. He created a mess, this is all on his shoulders. READ THE AGREEMENT THE US MADE WITH THE TALIBAN  Trump campaigned that he would pull out  --- promise kept... This president plays the Blame game he should not be in office.  If he did not want to keep to the contract and the plans it offered, he should have come up with a plan of his OWN. He is inept in my opinion.
            
            https://www.state.gov/wp-content/upload … .29.20.pdf

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               Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, an agreement.  An agreement that went into the term of the next president, whereby that president gets some input into it.  It wasn't a treaty as it was never ratified by the Senate. 
               
               In delaying the withdrawal, Biden was hoping to allow peace talks to determine a path between the Afghan government and the Taliban.  Once it became clear that those talks would not reach a mediation, Biden, after warning the Afghan government, set a timeline for the withdrawal.

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                  Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  Very true, all presidents have the right to make up their own minds on whether to follow an agreement or nullify it. IMO he should have respected the agreement and had a peaceful withdrawal.
                  
                  You will need to give proof of your last statement, not sure what talks you allude to.
                  
                  I have read what the administration has offered on the subject. We may be coming to a different conclusion on Biden's mindset on his plans to withdraw. from Afghanistan.
                  
                  https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo … ghanistan/

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                     Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                     Here is the link about trying to facilitate talks:
                     
                     https://www.npr.org/2021/03/08/97480106 … not-progre
                     
                     'Blinken said the U.S. is calling for a U.N.-sponsored meeting of the foreign ministers of Russia, China, Pakistan, Iran, India and the U.S. "to discuss a unified approach to supporting peace in Afghanistan." He also called on Turkey to host a meeting of Afghan and Taliban negotiators to reach a peace agreement.'

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                        Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        It would appear from his campaign speeches that he promised to pull out of Afghanistan, perhaps keeping a small footprint if any troops.
                        
                        https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/15/politics … index.html
                        
                        Perhaps he was willing to listen to Blinken, and go down another path, and when talks were not fruitful returned to his original stand on pulling out.
                        
                        I had hoped to see us pull out of Afghanistan we did what we went to do, and it was apparent the Afgan army was not going to fight to keep the country. What they could have done, we provided the training and tons of weapons. 
                        
                        I am not for policing or being responsible to keep peace in foreign countries.

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                           MizBejabbersposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                           "I am not for policing or being responsible to keep peace in foreign countries."
                           
                           I said that when Bill was president.

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                              Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                              It seems we just don't learn our lesson.

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                  Live to Learnposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  Do you not think it imperative to safeguard the lives of those being withdrawn? Do you not think it imperative to safeguard the lives of those who helped our efforts?
                  
                  Whatever came before, it was Biden’s responsibility to ensure his decisions and implementation of his understanding of prior agreements did not create chaos and death.
                  
                  I honestly wish people would set their politics aside long enough to reasonable hold politicians accountable. Not only are people dying but many now face a dangerous and uncertain future due to the foot dragging and knuckle dragging of the current administration.

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                     Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                     The lives of those being withdrawn are being safeguarded.  There were over a thousand troops still in the country and both Trump and Biden made it clear that any violence towards any American would be met with a swift and harsh response.  As for the lives of those who helped our efforts, I do believe they should be give an asylum option, and many are. 
                     
                     I'm sure many trying to flee are just in fear of living under the Taliban and it's not feasible to safeguard all of those lives.  That would have been their own government's job.  If Biden wanted to prevent chaos and death of that group, then remaining there would have been the option, but at the expense of American lives as the Taliban would have begun violence against Americans again - and with an extra 5,000 fighters that Pompeo and Trump helped to release back to the Taliban BEFORE we finished our withdrawal.  Does that sound like it helped create a safe option for withdrawal?
                     
                     I honestly wish people would apply their politics consistently.  As this is quite similar to the US's Kurdish allies that Trump abandoned in less time and with just as much carnage as Turkey began to attack them.

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                        Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        "The lives of those being withdrawn are being safeguarded.  There were over a thousand troops still in the country and both Trump and Biden made it clear that any violence towards any American would be met with a swift and harsh response.  As for the lives of those who helped our efforts, I do believe they should be give an asylum option, and many are."
                        
                        I disagree after listening to Gen Milley's briefing yesterday. He admitted that troops were unsafe if they sept off the one airport left in Afghanistan. he admitted he did not have the troops to secure both Bagram airbase and our US embassy. He took his orders from Biden. Biden at the point he was made aware of that, should have had enough sense to realize both needed to be protected, and we would certainly need Bagram airbase to help evacuate citizens and troops. He is not equipped to make decisions or solve problems. He makes problems far worse --- think southern border.
                        
                        Let me remind you Gen Milley takes his orders from Biden... Not Trump
                        
                        "GEN. MILLEY: On your question of Bagram, securing Bagram, you know how big Bagram is. You've been there many times. Securing Bagram is a significant level of military effort of forces, and it would also require external support from the Afghan Security Forces.
                        
                        Our task given to us at that time, our task was protect the embassy in order for the embassy personnel to continue to function with their consular service and all that. If we were to keep both Bagram and the embassy going, that would be a significant number of military forces that would have exceeded what we had or stayed the same or exceeded what we had.
                        
                        So we had to collapse one or the other, and a decision was made. The proposal was made form CENTCOM commander and the commander on the grounds, Scott Miller, to go ahead and collapse Bagram. That was all briefed and approved, and we estimated that the risk of going out of HKIA or the risk of going out of Bagram about the same, so going out of HKIA -- was estimated to be the better tactical solution in accordance with the mission set we were given and in accordance with getting the troops down to about 600, 700 number."  Source ---   https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Transc … gen-mille/
                        
                        In my opinion, Biden was not safeguarding anyone. The troops are trapped in an airport, and well --- he closes Bagram needlessly due to not wanting to provide troops needed to man both Bagram and our embassy... What poor decision-making.
                        
                        
                        It was clear when  Gen. Millet answered this question he was truthful and was very much not going to own the decisions Joe made.

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         wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         "But this is an internal struggle."
         
         This ceased to be an "internal struggle" on 911.  Since then it has spread to many other countries as well - there is very little "internal" about it; the only thing internal is the struggle for complete control of a country, mostly by people from other countries.

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            peterstreepposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Come on man... 15 of  the 19 hijackers were citizens of Saudi Arabia. The other 4 came from the United Arab Emirates, Lebanon and Egypt.
            
            So the thing the USA should have done is bomb Saudi Arabia. But no, they went for the easy target and publicity stunt (or so they thought) and killed over a 50.000 civilians in the process!
            
            And now Afghanistan needs a 100 years and x generations to recover from the hundreds of years of colonial wars

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               wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               I'm not sure what radical muslim hijackers being from Saudi Arabia, or anywhere else has to do with anything.
               
               Fact is that Afghanistan became the "country of choice" for those people - the place where they trained, where they recruited and where they planned.  Saudi Arabia never was.  It was never a war against Afghani's or any other nationality; it was a war against radical muslim extremists intent of killing Americans.

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                  peterstreepposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  9 terrorists attacked the Twin Towers.
                  3000 civilians died
                  .
                  .
                  .
                  20 years of occupation in Afghanistan
                  50.000 civilians died.
                  
                  
                  Do you call that justice?

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                     Misbah786posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                     Peterstreep, You are right. That isn't even close to being justice. Both the United States and Afghanistan have lost a significant number of people and, more importantly, peace. Peace is impossible to achieve via war.

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                        Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        "Peace is impossible to achieve via war."
                        
                        
                        HUH????   
                        
                        - like a fence is not a means to peace?
                        a border wall is not a means to peace?
                        .
                        .. which SIDE are YOU on?
                        - oh, no side.
                        no side at all.
                        
                        Flowers:
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lBLxaIOZG4

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                           Misbah786posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                           I'm not on anyone's side. In today's society, everyone is free to choose how they want to live, therefore we can't force others to embrace our way of life just because we like it.
                           
                           Positive peace means no war or violent conflict combined with a situation where there is equity, justice and development. The absence of war by itself does not guarantee that people do not suffer psychological violence, repression, injustice and a lack of access to their rights.
                           
                           The reason peace is absent from some parts of the world is because of racial prejudice or because of hatred built on the basis of caste, colour, creed or gender.
                           
                           By the way
                           "The Taliban militants, overwhelmed a U.S.-trained army numbering about 300,000 — at times without a single bullet fired." None of us can deny the facts or can we ?
                           
                           Peace!

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                              Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                              I guess you are an anarchist. Good luck with that.

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                                 Misbah786posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                                 Well, I will take your response as a good way to drop the conversation.
                                 Peace and Blessings to you!

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                        peterstreepposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        It's terrible what is happening in Afghanistan. It's a country that was in war for generations. With the UK, Russia, the USA.
                        It's good that this colonialism has stopped.
                        But it will take generations to rebuild a society that is peaceful and prosperous.

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                           Misbah786posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                           Agreed

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      Kyler J Falkposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Anyone who blames Biden or the military would be casting unfair blame. As far as I recall Bush created this war with the plan of winning, Obama instigated with the plan of establishing an exit when appropriate, Trump negotiated that exit, and Biden carried out the exit. It isn't as if the country just magically turned into a problem after we decided to do this, either.
      
      If I were to have to cast the blame on anyone, I'd blame the international powers that be as a whole. The reason we could not run a shock and awe campaign on Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, Syria, etc. is because it would've frightened everyone into a third world war. Equally so, it would be morally irresponsible to run a full-fledged shock and awe campaign in the modern age, because the last time this occurred was strictly to end the Shoah.
      
      If there is anything to blame, anything at all, it would be morality. Now we can only hope that the moral stance plays out to be the right one in the long haul as assets change hands, and new palms are getting freshly greased. Always have to hope for a favorable silver lining.

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      Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Biden and the Presidents and Politicians both current and in the past that chose this outcome.
      
      The Military could have ended this war 20 years ago, if they had been allowed to fight the war to its conclusion, by whatever force and means required.

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      Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      At this point, it is being reported Biden would not take the advice of the top military. This will most certainly go down as his biggest mistake. This mess will be investigated, and the top brass will be questioned. They won't in any respect take the blame for Biden's mistakes.

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   ValKarasposted 3 years ago

   The question is simple: what makes it America's business -- other than spreading their influence in the region --how people in any country choose to live? Saddam Hussein would have never killed as many of his people as the "Saviors from the West" have done.  We call it "collateral damage", or just "Oops!"
   Why not focus on our own flaws of democracy before trying to impose it on others? Why not focus on our own "justice of the rich" before playing judges about other people's human rights?
   Who ever "elected" America to be a "leader of the free world" in the first place -- while in a "free" world leaders get elected, not self-imposed?
   So, why not leave all this crappy topic alone and mind our own business?

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      MizBejabbersposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Why Dahling, it was BIG OIL! The U.S. is run by corporations, y'all know. Our leaders are just figureheads standing in proxy for them.

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      Jodahposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      +1

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   ValKarasposted 3 years ago

   We are so quick to call "terrorists" those who are just defending their ways of life, their religion and their political and economic sovereignty. The West has been imposing their political and economic presence in that region for longer than those people found tolerable. First it was colonization, then slavery, then some huge oil companies to invade their territories. Yes, they don't like our presence there, and I, for one, don't blame them.
   The true nature of 9/11 tragedy is still up for grabs, since the most of the world renowned metallurgists said right away that the fuel from those planes couldn't have melted the metal skeleton of the Towers all the way to the ground. Even a man working at the time in the boiler room said how he had heard one after another detonations.
   But we are all incredibly brainwashable by the "official" statements of the authorities. We are showing that sheepishness these days during this pandemic  as well. But hey -- it's so easy to call opposite opinions "conspiracy theories". and it's been done quite successfully.
   And by the way, some high ranking politicians admitted that attack on Afghanistan, Iraq, (even Iran) had been planned even before the 9/11 happened.

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      Misbah786posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Sir, I highly appreciate you for raising up that voice. I feel sad for what happened on 9/11 but who actually knows anything exactly. Even the officials haven’t provided anything about Osama Bin Laden’s Death. Who actually knows what happened?  I am not an Afghani but like you I also think similarly that “We are so quick to call "terrorists" to  those who are just defending their ways of life, their religion and their political and economic sovereignty.” Highly appreciated!
      Blessings to you!

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         "terroists"
         really? are you joking?
         I hope you are!
         The people of Afghanistan are devastated that we left. They were doing well, thanks to our presence. It's a pity/tragedy they didn't have the ability to take over. They needed their own constitution, good strong leadership and administration. We should have helped them obtain a strong government for the people. Here is where we dropped the ball. Maybe it's just a case of laziness which seems to be the worst of human traits.

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            Misbah786posted 3 years agoin reply to this

            With all due respects, I want to ask you, are you just refering Ashraf Ghani as an Afghani? Because only he and some other government officials were doing well. Why US wanted to help the people of Afghanistan?
            A Taliban's religious scholar in an interview to a US military officer said “The Taliban fight for belief, The army and police fight for money.” “The Taliban are willing to lose their head to fight. … How can the army and police compete?” and they proved what they have said was right.
            
            https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politi … rpt-497843
            
            In this modern world where we believe it's bad to ask someone their religion/belief as we count it racism. Do you think we should have a war with a country for the same reason just because their beliefs differ than ours?
            If they want to have rules in their country as per their beliefs what's wrong in there? Did US won the battle with the Talibans? Who left from Afghanistan talibans or US army along with Ashraf Ghani? Who succeeded eventually? It has to happen? Who trained the Talibans?
            
            Can you deny this fact: " Afghanistan remained neutral during the First and Second World Wars. From the 1960s to the early 1990s, the Afghan Army was equipped by the Soviet Union. Under the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, the Army was under the Ministry of Defense in Kabul and was largely trained by US-led NATO forces."
            
            Or can you deny this: "The Taliban, a force of 75,000 militants, overwhelmed a U.S.-trained army numbering about 300,000 — at times without a single bullet fired."
            
            https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/tali … y-n1276911
            
            With al-Qaeda's help, the Taliban won control of over 90 percent of Afghan territory by the summer of 2001. By the time the U.S. and NATO combat mission formally ended in December 2014, the 13-year Afghanistan War had become the longest war ever fought by the United States.
            
            https://www.britannica.com/event/Afghanistan-War
            
            My heart bleeds for what happened on 9/11but what happened afterwards? We lost more lives? It should have ended before peacefully with table talks. Neither you nor I am on a border we are at our homes and living peacefully. So we really don't know the pain.
            
            US army left after 20 years what they have gained? I believe, What Biden have done should have been done before.
            Plus, I don't think Afghanistan was a place where it should have happened. I believe, There are always setbacks and retreats in any conflict/war, but some defeats are just due to poor tactics. The United States is guilty of fighting a war without a plan. They had to take a back step
            
            I think, Afghanistan was not a place to look for war. Reality is reality and it is always hard to swallow. We have lost more lives in these 20 years on both sides. World needs peace.

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               look:
               https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/267 … -you-think

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                  Misbah786posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  I can't read that whole thread. Can you please Briefly explain your point of view? The thread you've shared was created 11 years ago.

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               Repeating from elsewhere:
               Maybe the Taliban will settle down and run a perfectly fine country.
               And China and Russia will settle down and run their own countries.
               And the rest of the world will do the same. Surely, we all sleep at night and renew our efforts toward peace and happiness the next day.
               
               Why waste one's time and energy trespassing against others??????

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            peterstreepposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Since the US occupied  Afghanistan more than 50.000 innocent civilians died.
            And who are we to dictate our way of life to others?
            How would you feel when the Saudi Arabia would occupy the US and dictate their view of the world?
            the Americans would fight forever. So would the Afghan people. It would be a war without end.
            The best is to pull out and trust that the country will slowly recover, which will take generations.

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               Misbah786posted 3 years agoin reply to this

               +100000000000

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   Jodahposted 3 years ago

   I think the blame rests on John Rambo, and I’m sticking to it.

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