Too Much False Covid Data

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  1. Readmikenow profile image94
    Readmikenowposted 12 months ago

    I've known it for months.  There are hundreds of articles about it.

    The number of people dying from Covid are bogus.  You can't really believe them.

    A man shoots his wife and then shoots himself.  It is a murder suicide, both listed as Covid deaths.  A woman is listed as being a Covid death, the problem, she is still alive.  The list goes on and on from one state to the next.

    When will people realize they are being played by the government?

    You have to wonder how many of the false Covid deaths exist in the national count?  Some estimate over 1/3 of the reported Covid deaths were not because of Covid.

    Why is it so important to the government to provide such misleading data?  Why is causing fear so important to them?

    Here is a story about what has happened in Colorado.

    "Others were also questioning the state’s count.

    Bock: We had the coroner in Montezuma county. He had a death, an alcohol death, and it was counted as Covid. And he's the one that I guess got the ball rolling and started complaining.

    As a result of the complaints, the state added subcategories showing number of deaths “Of” Covid and deaths “With Covid.” But months later, with the murder-suicide, there were still questions.

    Sharyl: "Of Covid" presumably means the death is thought to have been caused directly by Covid.

    Brenda Bock: Directly.

    Sharyl: And "with COVID" means?

    Bock: You had other underlying conditions.

    Sharyl: Okay. So the murder-suicide should not have been counted under either of those categories?

    Bock: Right. And that's what I complained about. And then when I did talk to the Governor, he told me he didn't believe it was right, but he wasn't going to have them remove it from the count because all the other states were doing it that way so we were going to also.

    Colorado Governor Jared Polis declined our interview request. A spokesman said the governor agrees with Grand County coroner Bock and was “outraged” that a murder-suicide is recorded as Covid-related. “In an effort to be abundantly clear,” the governor adds, the state website explains that “some numbers combine deaths that were a direct result of COVID and deaths that occurred when the individual had COVID-19.”

    During our visit to Colorado, the state’s total Covid-related death tally was 13,845. Separating out the deaths not directly caused by Covid cuts that number by about half with the rest dying “among” or “with” Covid — not because of it."

    https://fullmeasure.news/news/cover-sto … ting-covid

    1. Nathanville profile image91
      Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      I can’t comment on how the USA does it, obviously; but I can vouch for how the covid deaths are estimated in the UK.

      In the UK there are three independent methods used to calculate covid deaths; and although the three methods never tally with each other, comparing the data from the three methods is nevertheless a useful cross-check, and provided they give the same general trends and range of figures then it gives assurance that the data is reasonably accurate e.g. back in May 2020 the daily set of figures being used by the UK Government at the time was significantly different (higher) than the other sets of data; alerting the Authorities to an error in the data collection.  Specifically, the data was showing daily covid related deaths averaging around 60 per day, when the other data indicated the daily death rate was at that time in single figures.

      The ONS (Office of National Statistics) looked at the faulty data, identified how the error was occurring, corrected the problem, and updated the historic data accordingly.

      The three different verifications used to calculate the covid daily deaths in the UK are as follows.

      Method One:  Published daily by the NHS (National Health Service), and used by the Government in their daily decision making –

      •    Every person who dies within 28 days of testing positive with covid.  The obvious flaw is that if you test positive for covid and then get run over by a bus the following week, you’re statistically counted as a ‘covid related death’; conversely, if you test positive for covid, but die of covid more than 28 days later, then your death is not recorded as covid related using this methos – So it’s ‘swings & roundabouts’.

      Method Two:  Published by the ONS (Office of National Statistics) on a weekly basis.  The ONS is an ‘independent’ Government Department, which means it’s not answerable to the Government, it’s only answerable to Parliament e.g. to prevent the UK Government from influencing or manipulating official data for political gain.

      •    Where a ‘doctor’ or ‘coroner’ records covid as being the cause of death on the death certificate, regardless to whether that person was tested for covid or not e.g. a doctor making a person judgement based on the symptom that the patient had before they died.  The flaw in this method is that a doctor may record someone as having had covid because of their symptoms, without actually testing for covid e.g. misdiagnoses.  Although it works both ways e.g. a person my die of covid but the doctor puts something else as the cause of death – So it’s ‘swings & roundabouts’

      Method Three:  Published by the ONS monthly. 

      •    The ONS took the total number of all deaths in the UK, for each month, for the five years from 2015 to 2019 and divided the monthly figures by 5; to derive at the number of average deaths for each month of the year.

      •    The ONS then subtract the total number of deaths each month from the five year average, to calculate excess deaths; and if the excess deaths are close to the deaths being reported in Methods 1 & 2 above, then it can be assumed that the figures published in methods 1 & 2 above are reasonably accurate.

      Covid Related Deaths Recorded in England & Wales from 13th March to 27th August: Using all three methods, as follows:-

      •    Method 1 (death within 28 days of testing positive) = 122,116.

      •    Method 2 (Covid mentioned on the death certificate) = 144,382 (16.4% of total deaths during that period).

      •    Method 3 (Excess deaths based on the 5 year average of the previous 5 years in the UK) = 110,595 excess deaths.

      Take your pick as to which method of counting covid deaths is the most accurate; they are all in excess of 100,000 and method 1 (which is the data the Government uses in policy making and when addressing the nation) is certainly remarkably close to method 3 (within about 10% of each other), suggesting that death within 28 days of testing positive seems to be a reasonably reliable yardstick for measuring covid related deaths.   Method 2 (what’s recorded on death certificates by doctors) may be more accurate; or an indication that doctors are being overzealous in diagnosing covid without actual testing being done on the dead person.

    2. abwilliams profile image67
      abwilliamsposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Hi Mike,
      This post really piqued my interest, this along with four different videos received in the course of the day. I guess because I don’t hesitate to write about controversial subjects,  I have videos, links, articles continually being sent to me. I haven’t had the time to watch them all in their entirety, but this is the subject and the whistleblowers noted thus far are an R.N., a Doctor and a Funeral Director. What I have heard so far is disturbing to say the least.
      I will report back with anything new to add to the discussion, once I have thoroughly vetted all sources.

      1. Readmikenow profile image94
        Readmikenowposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        Thanks.

    3. Sharlee01 profile image84
      Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Biden needs COVID. He is not versed to talk about anything other than COVID, as are the far-left news jocks. Without COVID Joe would have to address the border, inflation, and leaving American's in Afghanistan after a horrific pullout that 13 soldiers were killed, and not to mention his drone strike that killed 10, 7 children. He would need to really explain the trillion he hopes to spend on social programs. Joe needs COVID and will bilk it as long as he can.

      However one can see American's are sick of hearing about it, and have moved on. Just check the left media rating compared to Fox news...One can see many are done with all the BS and filtered left news reporting.

      Consider his latest  Biden's latest Booster vaccination feasco. Last month, for those of you keeping track, the Biden administration announced a plan to give additional shots of COVID vaccine — so-called boosters — to millions of Americans.  But Biden's dull mined administration never explained why it was necessary or scientifically justifiable. They never bothered. Instead,  they simply decreed it was going to happen.

      Then ---   it turned out, no one had told the scientists about Biden's decree. Two leading vaccine experts at the FDA quickly resigned. Several more announced they were thinking of quitting. The boosters had bit even been approved as of yet.

      3 days ago  the FDA --
      FDA approves Pfizer Covid-19 booster shots for Americans ages 65 and older. The US Food and Drug Administration on Wednesday authorized a booster dose of the Pfizer and BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine for those ages 65 and older and some high-risk Americans, paving the way for a quick rollout of the shots.

      Yet Biden was pushing for all that received the Pfizer vaccine to be bolstered... I guess this was what one could call the "science of Biden".

      As I said, Joe needs COVID. He needs it so bad he will do anything to keep it going... He is a political grifter, and this grift has failed.

      A good read ---   Biden’s chaotic messaging on Covid-19 boosters is pitting the White House against the government’s scientific advisers
      https://www.statnews.com/2021/09/24/bid … -advisers/

    4. Jimmy John Grimmer profile image60
      Jimmy John Grimmerposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      I've always known the pandemic is a "plandemic". You have provided further verification.Thanks!

  2. profile image0
    ValKarasposted 12 months ago

    An ancient Chinese proverb says: "You can't prevent birds from flying over your head, but you should prevent them from making a nest in your hair". In translation: Let's not blame those spreading lies -- the problem is with us for believing them.
    We are just good for playing victims all the time. Ever heard about Mahatma Gandhi kicking ass of the British by -- doing NOTHING?

    1. Readmikenow profile image94
      Readmikenowposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      I appreciate your response.

      I agree it is up to us to not believe what we know to not be true.  It appears that the government is involved in "gas lighting" us on a massive scale. 

      Facts and truth no longer matter to many people.

  3. profile image0
    ValKarasposted 12 months ago

    Fear is the strongest emotion because it's attached to our survival instinct -- and fearmongering has been, for eons, the most successful strategy to brainwash the masses. It's a simple psychological fact -- especially in field of mass hypnosis, prolonged conditioning, and indoctrination -- that fear can easily hijack people's logical reasoning.
    So they believe medical manipulators, ignoring the reports about:
    -- vaccines' protection already getting weaker after only few months of having being injected.
    --  prospects of having to repeat, and repeat getting new doses of something that hasn't been properly tested for long term side effects.
    -- Producers of vaccines not being liable, which by itself raises questions of their safety.
    -- Media being paid by the Big Pharma to spread fake numbers.

    What particularly looks fascinating is tendency to call "conspiracy theory" anything that doesn't agree with the mainstream manipulators -- even though those "conspirators" are some of the most renowned virologists in the world. Indeed, suddenly every ordinary Joe "knows better".
    When one of them stated from the very start that vaccines should not be used at the peak of a pandemic -- it hits the deaf ears.

    Medicine is not a science anymore, where different educated opinions are welcome and in interest of evolving the fund of knowledge -- but a dogma where some firm positions are excluding anything else.
    Makes one wonder it that has anything to do with the fact that the Big Pharma is financing much of the FDA, and has enormous influence in the WHO.

    Ultimately, despite the idiotic and unscientific (but commercially convenient) idea that those unvaccinated are the "only" spreaders -- people should be able to choose for themselves what goes into their body.

    When people lose that freedom, we are talking about medical dictatorship.
    Psycho-neuro-immunology clearly states that prolonged fear is drastically lowering the immunity (via the suppressing effect of adrenalin), while any pathogen is only as strong as weak is our immunity.
    It may forever stay a puzzle why it was necessary to bombard the public with daily reports of "numbers" -- if that information doesn't help in any way at all.
    Along with the draconic regulations enforced. For example, it's nowhere in the medical textbooks that lockdowns can help in pandemics, and since people are social beings, social isolation has only been used in penitentiaries as a punishment. The last lockdown was historically done in 14th century in Venice, and didn't help at all.
    With masks we are re-inhaling much of carbon dioxide being exhaled with every breath, causing oxygen deprivation in brain -- even that Medical Deity Fauci  said at the start that they are harmful, before changing his opinion, which he keeps doing for sake of confusing the people. (Confusion is another tool applied in hypnosis)

    Well, so much for an open mind to consider -- but never enough once when it's closed.

    1. Readmikenow profile image94
      Readmikenowposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      I agree with you.  Have you had any problems in Canada voicing your opinions?

  4. profile image0
    ValKarasposted 12 months ago

    Just finished watching a heart breaking You tube video (its credibility supported by the original report) about a Pfizer's experiment some time back in the 80's, in which 200 Nigerian children were used as guinea pigs for testing a new drug -- without a consent from parents.
    Eleven kids died, many went blind, deaf, paralyzed, with brain damage -- and  Pfizer compensated them by paying 75 million in 2005. Cute price for children's lives, isn't it!
    I don't know why that satirist in me is envisioning so many saying: "Well, it's only one Nigeria, we are SURELY getting their best, most reliable, well tested product for OUR children. They wouldn't dare to experiment on OUR children".
    Are you sure?

    1. Readmikenow profile image94
      Readmikenowposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Good point.  It has happened in the past.

    2. Sharlee01 profile image84
      Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

      It appears Pfizers doing studies on children in California.
      https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/ … er-12.html

      "Dr. Yvone Maldonado is the principal investigator at Stanford University School of Medicine for the Pfizer trial. Dr. Maldonado said they've received an influx of interested families.

      "These are families that are coming forward. We are not advertising. They are coming forward and volunteering. We would love to enroll more, but in order to get these vaccines trials done we are limited, and we certainly have hundreds of people more than we can accommodate, if not thousands," said Dr. Maldonado."

      https://abc7news.com/coronavirus-vaccin … /10763721/

  5. Jodah profile image89
    Jodahposted 12 months ago

    This is all so disturbing, and the world is in chaos. Rioting against lockdowns and proposals to make vaccination mandatory have started in this country, Australia. Val, that is shocking to hear of that Pfizer experiment in Nigeria.

  6. profile image0
    ValKarasposted 12 months ago

    Sharlee -- It's amazing how "clean" everybody always sounds in their self-presentation, from politicians to medical authorities to religious leaders. Well, it must be my problem that I fail to trust all these benefactors who have made this world so harmonious, so God-loving, and so healthy.  O.K., the satirist in me sometimes goes sarcastic.
    You see, we'll never stop seeing things differently, because we get our information from different sources. My information deals with multiple cases where the Big Pharma had to pay -- and are still paying -- for their deadly mistakes.
    It must be my age, not anything like "wisdom". I admire you trusting people, you must be at a great peace, just rolling up your sleeves and seeing your future free of Covid-19. I can't place my life in hands of someone who is not reliable for their mistakes.
    At a lack of that trust, I had to work seriously on my natural immunity, and the only good thing to say about it is that I am doing a tremendous job. Anyone being 77 and not seeing a doctor for 15 years, not using any over the counter  meds -- logically has to propagate the power of natural immunity and give a suspicious look at any foreign, experimental chemicals getting into the body.
    A suspicious, crazy old man, what can I say.

    1. Sharlee01 profile image84
      Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

      I think you misunderstood my post. And I am at fault. I should have left a more detailed comment. I was just offering where Pfizer was conduction the study on children. At this point in my opinion --- I don't feel a long enough study has been done to confirm its use on children. I don't feel science has shown a need for children to even be vaccinated. The infection rate as well as the death rate match that of the common flu.

      It is my hope that children never have the need for the vaccine. Most children have very good immune systems and would do well if they get COVID. I have an 8-year-old Grandchild. I would be totally against him taking the vaccine.

      At this time, it would appear that DELTA is declining, and this is very promising. Hopefully, we are coming to a moderately sized herd. This will certainly help rid us of COVID.

  7. profile image0
    ValKarasposted 12 months ago

    Mike -- There is no "activist" bone in me, and this is actually the only place where I am publicly expressing my opinion. My friends are scared shitless and trusting the authorities, and I don't want to lose their friendship over this crappy thing. On the other hand, here at HP, I have so many friends (a satirist speaking!), that I can afford losing a few. Lol.
    Canada is pretty much going autocratic when it's about this pandemic racket. As of tomorrow, passports are to get activated full blast.
    Of course, I'm laughing, no one in my family is going to restaurants or bars or gyms -- because we eat home made food, none of us drinks, and we are in a good shape without pumping iron.
    And none of us is vaccinated. Through all this pandemic we have seen our kids almost daily, hugging and kissing and having fun together, and if it was not for the masks, we wouldn't even know it's a pandemic.
    We don't believe in living in fear. -- focused on living, not on dying.

    1. abwilliams profile image67
      abwilliamsposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Same here Val, we’ve never put our lives on hold, we’ve never stopped living. We have vacationed with the grandkids,  We have loved, laughed and lived, refusing to live in fear. I am so tired of the what if’s, none of us are promised tomorrow, live life to its fullest today!
      We are finding out more and more each day and there are many evil people using this to their full advantage, it has been so advantageous for them, why would they ever give it up on this. They won’t. I’ve never considered a COVID vaccine and I sure as heck wouldn’t touch it now with a ten foot pole.

    2. Readmikenow profile image94
      Readmikenowposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      "We don't believe in living in fear. -- focused on living, not on dying."

      You and I are of like minds in this respect.  I wish more people saw it as we did because things would be different.

  8. Lora Hollings profile image82
    Lora Hollingsposted 12 months ago

    Where are you getting your information from, Readmikenow? A lot of what your saying sounds like its from conspiracy theories and Qanon. These groups will say anything to serve their own agenda and to perpetuate their own radical ideas about freedom which amounts to freedom to die from a dreadful disease which is almost totally preventable if they would just get the vaccine. What you’re saying is simply not true and isn’t based on reality. These radicalized groups are skewing reality and they’re doing nothing but confusing people and in fact, doing nothing but helping to spread covid-19. A lot of these people keep spreading untruths on facebook or YouTube where they are very likely to get an audience for their baseless claims and a lot of these people also support anarchy. What kind of a society would we be if everyone thought this way and we would never be able to get a handle on these pandemics. I think before we spread rumors, we need to first really examine the facts and perhaps it wouldn’t hurt to listen more to the scientists and less to those who show that they are against anything no matter all the evidence which shows that their thinking is totally illogical and that thousands of people are dying every day from covid and the vaccine is safe and effective.

    1. Nathanville profile image91
      Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Yep I know, but they are so deep down in these ‘rabbit holes’ that they’ll never see the light of day until it’s too late for them.

      1. Readmikenow profile image94
        Readmikenowposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        Why do you care?  This has nothing to do with the UK.

        1. Nathanville profile image91
          Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

          True, at least in the UK the vast majority of people eligible for the covid vaccine have had the good sense to be vaccinated; so at least in the UK we are now living normally without and legal restrictions e.g. social distancing and mandatory masks were all abolished in England by the UK Government on the 19th July specifically because most people are vaccinated; so that life can return to normal.

    2. Live to Learn profile image74
      Live to Learnposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      I’m not going to get into this debate because no one here is really interested in facts but I will share that a recently deceased loved one committed suicide, was not ill in the weeks leading up to it, and I personally saw the autopsy report. No mention of COVID there but COVID was listed on the death certificate along with suicide as the cause of death.

      Believe what you will. May be an isolated mistake, may be part of a broader agenda. Who knows.

    3. Readmikenow profile image94
      Readmikenowposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      You really need to read the article I provided a link to before you voice an opinion.  The information I provided is from a research journalist who interviews people in the medical industry.

      If everyone would read the information provided before voicing an opinion, there would be better informed opinions to read.

      1. Nathanville profile image91
        Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        Yes, I have read the article for which you provided a link.  The article is published by ‘Full Measure’, an American Sunday morning political affairs and investigative news magazine series hosted by investigative journalist Sharyl Attkisson.

        Sharyl Attkisson has editorial control over the magazine, and she focuses on controversial topics which have a political or ideological agenda, and in which she is critical of Democrats e.g. politically biased in favour of the Republicans.

        Sharyl Attkisson in her reports frequently promotes anti-vaccine rhetoric, even when it’s been decisively disproved, so much so that a Professor of Science Writing at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, described Attkisson as "one of the least responsible mainstream journalists covering vaccines, and ‘Snopes’ (a reputable fact-checking website) has cited her for significantly mischaracterizing statements (misinformation) made by reputable scientists.

        So in my view the source information you’ve given is of an unreliable nature, and only serves to further promote misinformation by anti-vaxxers.

        1. Readmikenow profile image94
          Readmikenowposted 12 months agoin reply to this

          What do you care?  It has nothing to do with the UK.

          1. Nathanville profile image91
            Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

            Didn't you know the covid pandemic is worldwide.

    4. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 12 months ago

      John -- I see on the You tube about the inhuman way that those protesting in Australia are treated. Well, I'll tell you what -- it's one of those things that are beyond our control, so let's make the most of our life in these circumstances. Although, there are enough pissed people in this world to think of something. I am not pissed, you might even call it "entertained".

    5. abwilliams profile image67
      abwilliamsposted 12 months ago

      This one was sent to me yesterday by a Funeral Director in the U.S.

      https://www.bitchute.com/video/68CDI5gsnHHp/

      Funeral directors first hand account on the Covid fraud.

      Tear it apart, go...

      1. Nathanville profile image91
        Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        BitChute is a video hosting service launched in January 2017 which is known for accommodating far-right individuals and conspiracy theorists, and for hosting hate speech.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitChute

    6. abwilliams profile image67
      abwilliamsposted 12 months ago

      "Hate speech", "far-right", I didn't see anything that suggested any such thing and I watched this in its entirety.

    7. abwilliams profile image67
      abwilliamsposted 12 months ago

      This one was sent to me yesterday, as well. Thoughts?

      https://rumble.com/vmrf4n-part-1-federa … gs-va.html

    8. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 12 months ago

      Nathanville -- After reading all your praises of the "freedom of Covid-19 in the UK due to the majority being vaccinated" -- out of curiosity, I typed "protests in the UK", and got a bunch of You tube videos about current protests against mandatory vaccination. It didn't look to me one bit like that rosy picture of one happy, healthy, and vaccinated nation that you have been presenting to us.
      I see you trying to debunk posts "because their information is based on politics". What is your information based on if all those videos are showing just another nation struggling against the tyrannical rule of the medico-political authority?
      Are you going to call those videos "doctored", not authentic?
      I understand that you got yourself vaccinated, and that's no one's business what you do with your body -- BUT at this point I will say what I usually say to some overzealous religionists: BELIEVE WHATEVER YOU WILL, BUT DON'T TRY TO MAKE OTHERS BELIEVE IT.

      1. Nathanville profile image91
        Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        Sorry Valkaras, I don’t know what you were viewing (you didn’t give any links), but there are currently no protests in the UK against ‘mandatory vaccination’.  There were anti-vaxxers a few weeks back protesting in London against the Government’s proposed plan to introduce ‘vaccine passports’ from the 1st October for access to nightclubs and large events; but the Government has since scrapped its proposals.  Those protests were rather small by British Standards e.g. just a small isolated group of people who are not representative of the General Public at large.  The protests to take note of are the ones that are nationwide (not just in London) like the BLM, Climate Change, Kill the Bill and the  Iraq war protests, and the poll tax protests of 1990 that caused the resignation of our Prime Minister.  While in contrast small groups of people (who are not representative of public opinion e.g. the anti-vaxxers, who congregate in London for protests don’t have any impact.

        As at 22nd September 89.5% of all the UK adult population have voluntarily been vaccinated; as yet there is no ‘mandatory vaccinations’ in the UK.  Therefore, there are only 10.5% of those eligible for the vaccine in the UK who has not at this point been vaccinated; a small percentage of which will be the anti-vaxxers e.g. the small minority who travel to London to protest when they get a chance. 

        https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

        Freedom Day, 19th July, when nightclubs were allowed to re-open again for the first time (after being closed by the UK Government for the previous 16 months); 19th July also the day that the UK Government abolished social distancing and mandatory masks:  So I think the revellers would say things were ‘rosy’ - https://youtu.be/TGZYpt1md-8

        Arthur (aka Nathanville)

    9. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 12 months ago

      Angie -- Thank you for the video by the funeral director. In one of my many articles on Covid-19, I hinted about the possibility that the authorities would explain the side effects of vaccines as "a new variant for which their previous vaccine is not effective -- suggesting that everyone get a booster". It's, in part, echoing what this funeral director is saying.
      By the way, I have deleted all political and covid-related articles, along with many others -- from 118 down to 44, since it's not really my niche. I honestly don't give a rat's ass about politics, and while writing about the craziness of this  pandemic I sounded to myself like I was on some kind of a "mission" to persuade people to see things my way.
      Well, that's not me.
      Even here, in this discussion, I wish people wouldn't get that impression. Ultimately I am a heavy individualist of my own make, and there is no collectivistic bone in me. Let every individual live their own reality, and SHARING my opinion never means PERSUADING.

    10. Readmikenow profile image94
      Readmikenowposted 12 months ago

      https://hubstatic.com/15726190.jpg

    11. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 12 months ago

      Sharlee -- You are one smart and sweet lady -- if I am allowed to say it -- and I admire your need to be objective, to put things in a proper perspective, making sure you are not misunderstood. Now I realize that I did misunderstand, rushing to give your post an undue response. No excuse coming to mind. When I am wrong -- I am wrong, and all I can do is try to not make it a habit.

      Yes, kids should absolutely be exempted from this experiment with vaccines. Also, as protection from vaccines is wearing down, the question appears logical enough to be asked -- how many more are people supposed to get, and what's the ultimate biological consequence of piling them up in the body, while the long term effects couldn't be foreseen, simply because for a "long term" we need a "long time" to pass first.

      1. Sharlee01 profile image84
        Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

        You were not at any fault My comment was vague.  I picked up on your comment in regard to Pfyzers doing studies on Nigerian children and hoped to add to the conversation on what studies were being done on the COVID vaccine at this point in California on a handful of children. I wanted to just add the info, and keep my bias out of it. I felt that most would question the study due to its rushed time limit, and actually the limited number being tested. 

        Giving this new type of vaccine to growing children really scares me...  I prefer we adults just building a herd to protect our children.

    12. abwilliams profile image67
      abwilliamsposted 12 months ago

      I have always been of the mindset, if you feel more comfortable, get the shot, if you don't, then don't get the shot, but it has hit close to home. My daughter is an R.N., my son-in-law, a Firefighter/Paramedic and they both have been threatened with losing their jobs if they don't submit to the jab. Their ultimatum gives them until the end of Oct. They want to have more children and (I will not get into specifics) but this vaccine will do them no favors in that department, let's put it that way. I am so angry, that we have gotten to this point and I am in one of the few free states left! Also, not sure if it was you I was discussing this with. My son had (1) dose of the Moderna vaccine and it sent him to the E.R. he is young, and healthy and he thought he was going to die. His heart rate dropped and kept dropping within 24 hours of getting the jab. He didn't want it, but had to to get into Canada, with his girlfriend to see her family. He didn't take the 2nd {obviously} and THEREFORE wasn't allowed into Canada. This is a bunch of b.s. and people better wake up. It's globally devastating to "We the People", no matter where we are on this planet.

    13. Lora Hollings profile image82
      Lora Hollingsposted 12 months ago

      I think it’s very safe based on the rigorous trials that this vaccine has gone through and according to the top research scientists in our country, I really don’t think that they would be recommending it if it wasn’t. And  many parents feel the same way I do. Can you say that you would rather have your child have covid? If they live through it, the results of this serious disease can compromise their health in many ways. If I had a child that age, I would definitely get the vaccine and not chance it with covid just as I would get the measles vaccine, polio, whooping cough, and mumps. To me, there’s no difference other than my first priority is to protect my child from a ravishing illness. It is a shame that Q anon and other groups have turned this into a political argument which it never should have been from day one. Herd immunity didn’t work for these other diseases, and it isn’t going to work for covid. And we also have to ask ourselves, if it’s acceptable for 2,000 people to be dying every day and already 695,000 deaths just in the US alone to have died and how many more must die until we reach herd immunity when we have a vaccine that can protect people from covid and is safe.

    14. Readmikenow profile image94
      Readmikenowposted 12 months ago

      Protests against lockdowns and the mandatory vaccinations are occurring in Canada, France, Australia, and other places around the world.

      Australia

      Citizens in Australia's largest cities have taken to the streets in protest of strict coronavirus lockdowns and mandatory vaccination for workers, with police Wednesday in Melbourne firing rubber bullets, stinger grenades and pepper balls on the third day of violent demonstrations.
      Residents of Melbourne have been under a strict lockdown for 230 days that includes a 9 p.m. curfew. Police arrested 215 protesters throughout the day, and two officers suffered head injuries.
      https://www.wnd.com/2021/09/not-north-k … crackdown/


      Canada

      Thousands of people marched in Montreal Saturday in protest of Quebec's public health measures, including the upcoming vaccination passport and mandatory vaccines for health-care workers. 
      Protestors gathered at Maisonneuve Park around 1 p.m. and marched along Sherbrooke Street to end in front of the Quebec Order of Nurses (OIIQ) building on Molson Street. Signs reading, "Choice, not mandate" and "No to mandatory vaccinations," in French could be seen among the crowd. 
      "I'm definitely not for the vaccination passport," said Dave Marciale, an attendee at the protest. "I find it goes a bit too far. What's next? We don't know."
      Maude Gauthier, who attended the protest with Marciale, added: "If we accept [the vaccination passport], we're going to say yes to everything."

      https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal … -1.6157031

      France, Bulgaria, and Netherlands

      More than 100,000 people protested across France last month against the government's push to get residents vaccinated against the virus, per PBS.
      Banging metal spoons on saucepans, protesters yelled, "freedom" and "Macron, clear off!" near the Louvre Museum. “I will never get vaccinated,” one 53-year-old protester said, per PBS.
      “A few tens of thousands of people have lost their minds to such an extent that they are capable of saying we live in a dictatorship,” President Emmanuel Macron said.

      https://news.yahoo.com/protests-against … 34948.html

    15. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 12 months ago

      Lora -- In this, so called "free" part of the world, it's perfectly O.K. that we all have our own opinion, without telling others what they "should " think.
      However, when you start your last post saying how you "think" ("suppose") that vaccine is very safe, it's not that you "know" it -- which would make you about the only person in the world.
      By now I must be getting on everyone's nerves mentioning the statistics about 350,000 deaths each and every year in the United States only, caused by medico-pharmaceutical establishment.
      Wrong diagnosis, wrong medicine, wrong dose, or just plain incompetence. If you are not willing to see a doctor as incompetent, remind yourself of all those cases when surgical instruments are left in the patient's body after they sew them up.
      Or  better yet, when someone gets hysterectomy operation instead of removing gallbladder stones. "Oops! Sorry, young lady, no children for you anymore!"
      Those 350,000 cases of iatrogenic deaths -- hey, they even got this fancy name for medical screwups -- are about the half of all alleged covid deaths, so why should I suddenly trust this vaccine created in a hurry, when so many drugs have been recalled because they were harmful or even deadly?
      Just look at almost any pharmaceutical in existence and the list of their side effects.
      Besides, they are completely ignoring people's biological individuality, making drugs on principle of "one-fit-all" -- while we know that, what may be a medicine for one, could be a poison for another. People even have serious allergies or intolerances to foods, let alone chemicals.
      Those drugs may not get you immediately, but may gradually harm -- and for the time being, there is no certitude about the long term effects of these vaccines.
      To say that children should be vaccinated, after so many people (not mentioned in true numbers by the media) got strokes, heart problems, Bell's palsy, blood clots, paralysis, reproduction issues, or died after getting vaccine -- is an inhuman proposition.
      Vaccines are wearing down,  so a new, and new, and new dose is bound to be -- not suggested, but mandatory, if you want to own that "magic passport" that opens all doors for you..
      As for myself, I won't take part in this ridiculous experiment with so little true data being fed to the public.
      I said it at the beginning that "they" would try to mask the long term uselessness of vaccines by inventing new and new "variants" , while blaming the unvaccinated for them?.
      It's all a part of the strategy -- this blame, this mandatory vaccinating, these health passports, but in the first place -- this persistent fearmongering, which has lowered the people's immunity.
      As for the numbers of "cases", has become a public knowledge that the financially struggling hospitals are receiving $50,000 for each patient diagnosed as a "covid case", and $75,000 for those who had to be put on oxygen..
      So, who will ever find out that Joe cut his finger and miraculously became a covid case.

      By my personal prediction, it won't be the anti-vaxxers, but vaxxers who are bound to be the loudest -- once when they get fed up with getting new and new vaccines, while the numbers of the dead vaccinated ones is more and more made public.
      Let's make one thing very clear here -- we all are just bombarded by the mainstream medico-political authorities, and many people are just becoming the statistics of a mass hypnosis. Let the time be the witness to it.
      One doesn't have to be a "conspiracy theorist" to just connect all dots about the general credibility of medico-pharmaceutical profession with those 300, 000 deaths a year, with  harmful or deadly drugs recalled -- even though approved by the FDA, and above all -- knowing that the Big Pharma has an enormous influence in the World Health Organization, FDA, and CDC.
      I love and nurture my natural immunity, which has kept me for 15 years away from any doctors at this age of 77.

      1. Nathanville profile image91
        Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        ValKaras, I would like to raise a few points from your response to Lora.

        #1:  Looking at the 350,000 yearly deaths in the USA caused by prescribed medication:

        •    The American population is 328.2 million, of which 55% (180.5 million) regularly take a prescription medicine.  Therefore 350,000 annual deaths is <0.2% of those regularly taking medication.

        •    Granted 350,000 annual deaths caused by prescription medication is tragic, and alarming; but considering the tens of millions of lives saved each year because of medication 0.2% loss is marginal e.g. the risk of death from medication is very low, whereas the benefits to life is very high.  Risk assessment, by how much does the benefits outweigh the risks.

        #2:  With reference to your comment - “Just look at almost any pharmaceutical in existence and the list of their side effects.”

        •    Yep, there isn’t anything that doesn’t have side effects, including the food we eat.  All foods, including natural organic food contain toxins, but generally they are considered safe to eat if consumed in moderation as part of a balanced diet - even water can be harmful if consumed in excess.

        In the UK the known side effects of prescription medication is always printed on an information leaflet that comes with the medication, and well published on the NHS website.  I assume the same information is freely available in the USA?

        #3:  With reference to your comment “Besides, they are completely ignoring people's biological individuality, making drugs on principle of "one-fit-all" -- while we know that, what may be a medicine for one, could be a poison for another.  People even have serious allergies or intolerances to foods, let alone chemicals.”

        If that’s the approach in the USA then I am a little surprised.  In the UK our doctors and consultants take particular care in trying to match the drug and the dosage to suit the individual e.g. if one drug doesn’t suit an individual because of known allergies or intolerances to particular substances then the doctor/consultant will find a suitable alternative. 

        #4:  With reference to your comment “Those drugs may not get you immediately, but may gradually harm -- and for the time being, there is no certitude about the long term effects of these vaccines.”

        Yeah, long term use e.g. more than six months, of particular medical drugs can have accumulative harmful effects; which is why (in the UK at least, and I would hope also in the USA) your doctor will regularly monitor your progress when on such prescriptions long term, and change the medication if necessary.

        The difference with the vaccine is that it’s not being taken regularly, just two shots initially and perhaps an annual shot (just like the flu vaccine); so it cannot have a cumulative effect.  And it’s not as if it’s a great quantity, just 0.3ml per dose, most of which is a saline solution for delivery of the critical element of the vaccine.

        #5:  With reference to your comment “As for the numbers of "cases", has become a public knowledge that the financially struggling hospitals are receiving $50,000 for each patient diagnosed as a "covid case", and $75,000 for those who had to be put on oxygen.”:

        I haven’t seen any evidence that “financially struggling hospitals” in the USA are receiving financial incentives to record deaths as covid deaths.  In the absence of any evidence, to me it sounds like ‘Disinformation’ being spread by anti-vaxxers.

        In any event, whether there is any truth in the claim or not regarding the USA, I can assure you that it’s a practice that does not exist outside of the USA.  In the UK the NHS (National Health Service) is Government owned and paid for by the tax payer e.g. free healthcare at the point of use, where the patient doesn’t have health bills, where there is no health insurance to scam hospitals or the patient, and where all doctor and hospital costs (including wages for doctors and nurses) are paid for by the Government. 

        Besides, in the UK data on covid deaths are not just compiled by the NHS or what doctors put on death certificates; in the UK three different methods are used to count covid deaths, as a cross-check that the data from the main source (NHS) is reasonably accurate. 

        The three different methods used in the UK are:-
        1: The NHS count of people who die within 28 days of testing positive.
        2:    A count of the number of death certificates that mentions covid, and
        3: Comparing the current ‘total deaths’ in the UK (in any given month) with the 5-year average of the previous 5 years to determine ‘excess deaths’. 

        As long as excess deaths are broadly in-line with the other sets of data then it gives reassurance to the Government and everyone else that the official figures being quoted are broadly correct.

        1. Readmikenow profile image94
          Readmikenowposted 12 months agoin reply to this

          Notice how I'm willing to share my sources?  Not everyone is like that.

          "NHS medication errors contribute to as many as 22,000 deaths a year, major report shows

          'The long lasting solution to this is a properly funded NHS with enough staff to deliver safe patient care,' NHS leaders say

          The NHS makes hundreds of millions of prescribing errors and mix-ups which contribute to as many as 22,300 deaths a year, according to a major report commissioned by the Government.

          Errors include failures to properly monitor patients on powerful drugs, poor communication between GPs and hospitals, and giving patients the wrong medication."

          https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal … 24226.html

          1. Nathanville profile image91
            Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

            Thanks for the link Readmikenow (a good link) and I hope you read it all carefully, including the penultimate sentence, which read:-

            “Professor of Health Economics at the University of York, Mark Sculpher, said: “Although these error rates may look high, there is no evidence suggesting they differ markedly from those in other high-income countries.”

            Considering the UK population is a 5th the size of the USA population then the 22,300 annual deaths in the UK from errors in prescription medication, if the same rate in the USA would be 5 x 22,300 = 111,500 USA deaths a year from errors in prescription medication; where as in actual fact its 350.000 in the USA; more than three times higher per head of population.

            Nevertheless, as NHS leaders state in the article, “the long lasting solution” would be “a properly funded NHS with enough staff to deliver safe patent care”; it’s a statement few Brits would disagree with:-

            The NHS was created by the Labour (Socialist) Government in 1948, as part of their post-war ‘Socialist’ reforms.  The Conservative (opposition) Party bitterly opposed it, as the medical profession; with doctors arguing that if doctors refused to join the NHS and become ‘public servants’ then the Socialist Government wouldn’t be able to introduce the NHS.  However, the House of Lords (the Upper Chamber in Parliament), which at the time predominantly non-elected lifelong and hereditary peers felt it would be undemocratic of them to block such major Legislation that the Socialist Government won the post-war General on in 1945 e.g. proposals laid out in Labour’s ‘election manifesto’; therefore the House of Lords didn’t block the creation of the NHS.  In turn, after months of campaigning, the Labour (Socialist) Government won over enough doctors to sign up to the NHS to create a domino effect e.g. people would flock to an NHS doctor offering free healthcare, leaving any doctor that didn’t join the NHS out in the cold.

            Ever since the Conservatives (capitalist) Government has despised the NHS, viewing it as ‘pure socialism’; and every opportunity they get they try to underfund the NHS (Government spending cuts).  And in the early 1980’s Margaret Thatcher (then Conservative Prime Minister) tried, unsuccessfully to abolish the NHS and replace it with the American style healthcare system.

            However, the NHS is popular with the voters, as much so with Conservative voters as Socialist (Labour) voters, so it’s political suicide for any Conservative Government to be seen undermining the NHS e.g. the NHS is always one of the most important issues in General Elections in the UK; so much so that in the late 1980s’ (as much as she was opposed to the NHS) Margaret Thatcher’s ‘election slogan’ was ‘The NHS is Safe in Our Hands’.

            In the 2015 General Election the most important issues to British voters were:-

            •    Immigration = 50% of voters viewing this as one of the most important issues.
            •    NHS = 48% of voters saying this was one of the most important issues.
            •    EU = 26%
            •    Economics = 26%
            •    Living Standards = 25%
            •    Welfare = 22%
            •    Education = 14%
            •    Inequality = 13%
            •    Tax = 10%
            •    Housing = 9%

            In spite of a ‘Capitalist’ Government feeling uncomfortable about having to support a ‘Socialist’ ‘healthcare’ system; since the publication of that report (which was published Feb 2018) the Conservatives are now in the process of building 8 new hospitals in the UK, and as mentioned in that article, Jeremy Hunt (then Government Minister in charge of the NHS) has made good on his promise to create a centralise database (which went live this July), which should (as mentioned in the articles) help to reduce the risk of errors. 

            This is the newly built NHS hospital where I was rushed to by Ambulance in late January of this year, and where I spent the next three weeks recovering.  The hospital was built in 2014 by the Conservative Government, at a cost to taxpayers of £100,000 ($137,000) per day mortgage: -  https://youtu.be/741SRxcCozU

            Still recovering from my illness in January, I’m finding the NHS centralised database incredibly useful e.g. I, my doctor and any hospital I visit, or any other medical staff I see, all now have full access to my personal medical records.  I’ve down loaded the app onto my smart phone to give me full access to my medical records, and so that I can communicate with my doctor easily, manage hospital appoints, and much more.

            1. Readmikenow profile image94
              Readmikenowposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              "Considering the UK population is a 5th the size of the USA population"

              You forget our high number of illegal aliens in our country and part of our system.  I'm sure the numbers would be different if you deleted non-citizens from the mix.

              1. Ken Burgess profile image85
                Ken Burgessposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                The issue of course is the "too much false and misleading data"

                "Covid vaccine maker Moderna received 300,000 reports of side effects after vaccinations over a three-month period following the launch of its shot, according to an internal report from a company that helps Moderna manage the reports."
                ...
                "A Houston woman spent 22 days in the hospital suffering from a rare disorder known as Guillain-Barré that she said her doctor determined was brought on by her COVID-19 vaccine.
                Jamie Walton said she has been very cautious throughout the pandemic because she is fearful of getting the virus. About three months ago, she got the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.
                The otherwise healthy woman started falling and ended up paralyzed from the waist down and was not able to walk. She said she went to the emergency room twice and met with several doctors before she found out what was wrong.
                "When this first happened, I honestly thought 'Am I dying?'" Walton recalled. "It's so weird when you have everything being taken away from you, and it was pretty fast moving up the legs to my hips to where I was numb, waist down, then the arms and the fingers."
                Walton said it was her brother-in-law, who is a doctor, who determined she had Guillain-Barré.
                "After analysis, they determined mine was definitely caused by getting the [Johnson & Johnson] vaccine," Walton said."
                ...
                "The announcement about the boy’s death came just after a CDC vaccine advisory panel met this week to consider reports of heart inflammation in adolescents, teens and young adults after being vaccinated. "

                1. Nathanville profile image91
                  Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  Yep, you’re right Ken; the issue of course is the “too much false and misleading data”.

                  While the examples you give may not be false, potentially it could be misleading e.g. into suggesting that the ‘risks’ from having the covid vaccines is far higher and far more serious than it really is, and far more deadly than not being vaccinated and subsequently dying of covid or contracting the 'Long Covid' illness.

                  Yeah, Moderna receiving 300,000 reports of side effects after vaccination does sound frighteningly high:-

                  •    However, you don’t say how many of those side effects were minor and how many were serious e.g. a sore arm for a day or two after the vaccination is a common side effect.

                  •    Moderna have distributed around 640 million doses of the vaccine worldwide; with half (300 million doses) being used in the USA.

                  To date more than 6.12 billion shots of covid vaccines have been given worldwide e.g. about 3 billion people worldwide have been vaccinated.  If the covid vaccines were just half as deadly as some would have you believe then with over 6 billion doses having been given to date the total number of serious issues from the vaccine would run into the millions or tens of millions e.g. if the vaccines adversely affected just 1% of those who have had the vaccination that would be over 30 million people.  Although in reality, you can find plenty of stories demonstrating how dangerous the vaccine can be, it’ll not be in the million. 

                  Apart from which, for every sob story you can find where the vaccine has harmed someone, I can find plenty of sob stories of people who have regretted not being vaccinated; many of whom have since died of covid.

                  •    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-fit … g-12373389

                  •    COVID-19 survivor regrets not being vaccinated:  https://youtu.be/mWvJMhvoO1M

    16. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 12 months ago

      Arthur -- O.K.

    17. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 12 months ago

      Mike -- If you deleted my response to Lora -- I understand, sometimes I do get carried away telling what I think. Silly old Val. -- Lol.

    18. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 12 months ago

      Now, this is crazy -- in two last instances as I visited this discussion, my response to Lora was not here, and nor was my short response to Arthur, which I repeated. Then, it all returned, including my doubled response to Arthur. Seems like this technology is playing tricks on me.

    19. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 12 months ago

      Arthur -- Like in this discussion, so in any other of the kind -- we'll never get anywhere by calling each other's source of information "misinformation". It has become typical, basically saying: "My people know better than your people".
      I'm finding it extremely entertaining how eagerly you are praising your country's handling of this pandemic, while basic lies are universal, spreading from governments, yours, mine, every one.
      Being an individualist, I honestly respect everyone's right to be right or to be wrong, I am not into a childish game of "WHO" is right, rather than "WHAT" is right, while we are not in a position to know who, or what is right..
      So, take it, or leave it, my sources are just as reliable as yours, while we can only cherry-pick over the available information which suits better our general impressions and personal beliefs.
      You talk about your country's merits like a religionist would talk from their faith in the words of a priest. It's like you are really trusting everything your government and media are telling you, along with any statistics being presented there.
      We are like people of different religions arguing about "whose god is a real god".
      There is nothing objective to be found in this discussion, we are simply exchanging "what we have heard", mixed with our intellectual preferences.
      You have been taking the whole thing way too seriously.
      Needless to say, I am sticking to my information and my general impression, at some points also relying on personal experience.
      You can't prove that a medication is safe by saying that it statistically kills "ONLY" so many people.
      It's ridiculous to compare toxicity of medications with that of foods.  Somewhat exaggerated, it would be like saying: "You know, cyanide is deadly, but for some people it could also be eating peanuts, or choking on a sandwich."
      There is one single thing closest to the PROOF that these vaccines are not safe, and that is the fact that their producers are insisting on them not being liable for any deaths or harms done by their use.
      I don't need any other proofs.
      You sound pretty much like a person who is facing the barrel of a gun in the game of Russian roulette, being told: "There are six bullets here, and your chances to stay alive are 5:1, benefit outweighing the risk".
      Well, I don't know about you, but if I took my child to a doctor, and he said that there is a "slight" chance of my kid going blind, paralyzed, getting a Bell's palsy, a stroke, a heart damage, brain damage, a compromised reproductive ability, or die in hours after taking a certain medication -- I would go to a health food store and take my chances there, .That's why hospitals ask that you sign that paper before certain procedure -- because it's not safe, and you can play with your statistics all you want..
      But, O. K., that's me -- and I am far from expecting to be a model for anyone to follow.
      And that's exactly what we are not doing here in this discussion -- not trying to prove others' potential lies wrong by presenting our potential lies as right.
      We are not scientists, we are simply choosing to believe different ones, that's all.
      And even if we were scientists of exactly the same credentials -- big chances are that we would be disagreeing over some very basic things with these vaccines -- including their safety.
      At the bottom of everything -- you believe in vaccination for Covid-19, and I don't, and beliefs are, by definition, cheap stuff, ever since placebo and nocebo effects have been discovered. Namely, what we are believing can either heal us or kill us.
      Fear is a nocebo, lowering our immunity, and then even a sugar pill in form of a vaccine may bring it up somewhat, posing as a placebo -- while the effects of it wear down with time -- coincidently just like vaccines do.
      But again, that's just me thinking in terms of psycho-neuro-immunology. Another thing to be ignored, right?.
      Well, I don't think there is anything more for me to say in this discussion, so I'll opt for entertainment of some other kind in this time to come.

      1. Nathanville profile image91
        Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        I understand your sentiments Valkaras; neither of us are going to change our minds because of these discussions – and like you, I have better things to do than waste my time with pointless arguments.

        However, before closing this debate, I would like to pick up on a couple of points you made, as follows:-

        #1:  Reference your comment: - “Fear is a nocebo, lowering our immunity, and then even a sugar pill in form of a vaccine may bring it up somewhat, posing as a placebo -- while the effects of it wear down with time -- coincidently just like vaccines do.”

        I’ve noted in other discussion that anti-vaxxers seem to think that the rest of society lives in fear of the pandemic.  Well, FYI that is not the case – During the 16 months of the pandemic that the UK was under lockdowns and covid restrictions (from the 23rd March 2020 to the 19th July 2021) while I observed and followed the Government’s Regulations on covid (as over 80% of the British population did) e.g. social distancing, wearing masks etc., and because my wife is in a high risk category I, my wife and our son all shielded for the full 16 months e.g. not going out and having our food home delivered:  But we didn’t live in fear, in fact (in British style) we stayed quite cheerful and spent more time keeping in touch with family and friends on-line, and spent more time together as a family. 

        And the vaccine waning overtime isn’t surprising.  All the vaccine does is to show your immune system what the covid virus looks like so that your immune system can make anti-bodies against the covid vaccine in the event that you do get infected by covid.  And it is a medical fact that many anti-bodies will wane overtime if they’re not needed e.g. if your body is not exposed to the virus that the anti-bodies are designed to fight.

        #2:  Reference your comment: - “You talk about your country's merits like a religionist would talk from their faith in the words of a priest.  It's like you are really trusting everything your government and media are telling you, along with any statistics being presented there.”

        •    Our current Government is Conservative (a right-wing capitalist government), and I’m a Socialist e.g. support the Labour (Socialist) Party.  So there is no way I trust, or usually support a Conservative Government, and politically it pains me to lend my support to the current Government for their handling of the pandemic; but the reality is, is that our Government has done what it can do to fight the pandemic, and as such has had the support of all political parties and over 80% of the population.

        •    As regards the media, I know which British papers to trust, and which ones not to trust; and it’s not based on politics either e.g. for example I can trust the Times and Telegraph (which are right wing press), the Independent (which is politically neutral) and the Guardian (left wing politics); whereas The Sun (right-wing), Mirror (left-wing) and the Mail cannot be trusted.  Also, unlike the USA, British News Channels on the TV are heavily regulated to ensure balance reporting.

        •    Statistics is one of my Forté e.g. it’s one of the subjects I studied at College for my qualifications.

        •    Plus, having been a civil servant all my working life, not only do I know from the inside how governments work, but also in my formative years researching,  compiling data and Report Writing, with Conclusion and Recommendation, including statistics and ‘sources’ was a major part of my job. 

        •    FYI I don’t actually have a great deal of pride in my country e.g. most Brits are not that proud in what we did during the British Empire, and the country is still deeply divided over Brexit; but credit where credit’s due, I do praise the elements of Britain that I think deserves praise e.g. the NHS.  I give the NHS as an example here, not just because my wife worked for the NHS before she retired, but also because it fits well with your reference to religion:  Specifically, Britain is not a very religious country, and it has been said, to quote

        “The NHS is the nearest thing Brits have to a religion”  https://youtu.be/bDdZCv5v2Rg

    20. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 12 months ago

      Arthur -- You see, I got so inspired by all the lies that we have been handling here, that I also lied about my leaving this discussion. And, since there is something true in our stories, so it is with my leaving -- I'll do it, but not this moment.
      Now, whether you have noticed it not, but I am heavily into the mind over body medicine. Actually, I firmly believe that the future of true medicine is not in biochemistry anymore, but in exploring the ways that our biology is merely an expression of the level of our mind and heart coherence.
      So, to mock a little this studious passion of mine -- here is that saying:
      "When a hammer is the only tool we have, sooner or later everything start looking like a nail".
      And so it is with this pandemic, and so it is with these vaccines.
      I totally believe that Covid-19, like any other pathogen for that matter, is only as strong as weak is our immunity -- and our immunity has collectively gone down remarkably due to the persistent fearmongering by the medico-political authorities.
      That's where I disagree with you, among some other things. Man, can you realize that the U.K. is not the only country with Covid-19, so here you go again contending "how well, and with no fear" you Brits have been handling it. Bragging, bragging -- for those who are willing to believe.
      O.K., I guess, your profile image with that helmet on your head is supposed to symbolize a  "fearless fighting spirit" -- but sorry, British or any other humans -- you are only humans, and I simply don't buy that story.
      On the contrary, I believe that the high number of your vaccinated folks means a collective high fear which made you rush to get that poorly tested vaccine -- like grabbing the first straw that was promising to keep you alive.
      Well, I told you -- "hammer is my only tool".
      I am not calling you a "liar", just a good patriot.
      No one in the world can make me stop believing how this massive fearmongering by daily reports of the dead and testing positive, these stupid, and ineffective masks, this forced social isolation, and financial uncertainties haven't created a global panic and seriously affected people's immunity.
      It's basic physiology that immune system is codependent with nervous and endocrine systems, there is no philosophizing or "conspiracy theorizing" there.
      Since you are mentioning your education in statistics -- I have read over thousand non-fiction books on human nature in some less than a dozen different approaches, giving my "hammer" a considerable "weight".
      So it doesn't matter if I am just talking about an intoxicated collective consciousness, or about our predominant worries signaling genes to downregulate our immunity via the excess of adrenaline and cortisol, which are known in medicine to suppress immunity.
      The fact remains that the medico-political authorities have done quite a number on our collective immunity -- paradoxically creating a "herd susceptibility" instead of a "herd immunity".
      The theme goes much, much deeper than the statistic figures, and deeper than all that crap we are hearing from "our sources".
      They are saying "follow the science", while their "science" is more deadly than this virus. Simple logic says -- if it was all that transferable and deadly as they have been telling us, during the past year and a half, most of the people would have died. Meaning that -- if most of the people, without any vaccines, have survived for this long, it means that their natural immunity could handle it.
      Reported spikes in infections, including among the vaccinated ones, makes one wonder -- what has been achieved after forcing people into the whole insane charade of restrictions for 18 months?
      And wouldn't we have had the similar numbers of dead if any seasonal flu had been as heavily and morbidly advertised as this coronavirus?
      Well, NOW I will leave, so -- while expecting you to find something to oppose all this -- hey, there is that helmet there -- sorry, but I won't respond. Not because your counter-arguments would make me speechless (that would be the day) -- but simply because this kicking the shit back and forth doesn't qualify for a lasting fun.
      All the best to you, Arthur. Enjoy the safety of your vaccine.


      .

      1. Nathanville profile image91
        Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        Yep – I’m scientifically minded, and you’re not:  So “Never the Twain Shall Meet”.

        You could say ‘science is my religion’; and if you can produce scientific evidence, that’s peer reviewed’, which supports your claims, then I might take note; but I know that’s not going to happen because you don’t trust the science, and much rather believe in the conspiracy theories being circulated by the anti-vaxxers.

        With reference to your comment “I am heavily into the mind over body medicine. Actually, I firmly believe that the future of true medicine is not in biochemistry anymore, but in exploring the ways that our biology is merely an expression of the level of our mind and heart coherence.”:-

        I don’t totally disagree with you.  One thing I learnt when studying human biology at College (as part of my qualifications) I did learn of the ‘power of the mind over body’ in respect to physical and mental health; and our Chinese friends (who live just two doors up from us), both husband and wife fully qualified medical physicians in China and the UK, and who work in the local University doing R&D on integrating Chinese medicine into the NHS, firmly believe in a holistic approach to medicine.

        Also, the NHS itself, in recent years have put a far greater emphasis on the holistic approach; which is why, since my recovery, and discharge from hospital in February I’ve had two consultation periods with the NHS dilatation e.g. to help balance my body chemistry through diet and exercise to avoid the need for medication.

        FYI, I write giving the UK’s perspective because being British I can speak authoritatively about the UK, whereas I can comment in any great depth about the USA because I’m not American; besides the American culture, society and politics are so alien to European culture that it often mystifies me anyway.  Apart from which, your comment is very much the ‘pot calling the kettle black’ when all too often, most Americans talk about America as if the whole universe reveals around America; and FYI it doesn’t.

        Reference your comment “I believe that the high number of your vaccinated folks means a collective high fear which made you rush to get that poorly tested vaccine -- like grabbing the first straw that was promising to keep you alive.”  You are so wrong; we don’t have the fear you imagine we have; we get vaccinated simply because it’s the prudent thing to do, and not to get vaccinated is ‘fool hardy’.

        We totally disagree on how the immune system works because of my understanding of science, and because I did human biology at college I know how the immune system works; whereas all you’re doing is just spouting more ‘disinformation’ commonly found on anti-vaxxers websites.

        We also totally disagree on the remaining points you made, but then ‘I follow the science’ and you don’t; so no surprise there.

    21. Readmikenow profile image94
      Readmikenowposted 12 months ago

      https://hubstatic.com/15729157.jpg

    22. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 12 months ago

      Numbers...numbers...numbers!
      So, let's play some more with them, since they provide for such a fascination.
      Worldwide, each year 1,35 million people die on the road in traffic accidents.
      20 - 50 million suffer non-fatal injuries, resulting in long-term disabilities.
      In the U.S. alone, 655,000 die yearly of heart disease, with an estimate that 1,806,540 will be diagnosed with cancer, while 606,520 die of it each year.
      All, according to Google as a source.
      AND NO PUBLICIZED SIGNIFICANCE HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ANY OF IT.
      "It's a way of life" -- whereas this pandemic is a "way of dying".
      Sources...sources...sources!
      Why the hell are they so important? Can't people use their own minds, always in a need of a "reliable source"? And what is "reliable" to them, if it doesn't agree with their preexisting convictions?
      Like with this pandemic.
      Highly respected worldwide, professor Sucharit Bhaghdi MD (since we need a "source") said in his eye-opening video presentation:
      "Our natural immunity is much smarter than our politicians and our scientists".
      And that's what another world class virologist, Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche, suppressed by the mainstream, more than agrees with. (Hey, here is another name! that we need so badly).
      Why not make an effort and think logically about our immunity.
      Humans have survived as species through some untold assaults by microbes of all kinds.
      Only a few centuries back, the personal and public hygiene was so horrible that even people of some class were actually using perfumes to mask the stink coming from their unwashed bodies. The average lifespan was much lower than ours these days.
      At this age of 77, I can still remember when in my childhood they said how at 50 you were an old man.
      We live in times when we could easily be over hundred before we die, if our cultural paradigm had not made us so scared shitless, and our immunity so weak by our dependency on the medico-pharmaceutical highly suggestive establishment.
      Indeed, we have given them a status of some deities, with a "dr." becoming inseparable from their name, and those medicine chests at home becoming a shrine.
      Not without a dash of sarcasm, I am contending that the medico-pharmaceutical industry is probably financing sugar, tobacco, and alcohol production, as well as Monsanto crap -- just to get a steady flow of customers.
      Try to invent a natural, cheap cure for cancer, and you are dealing with the Big Pharma police, for daring to usurp their multi-billion cancer business.

      And then we come to this pandemic, which should have really been called an endemic, like regular flu -- and with the same publicity given to it. No idiotic methods of massive fearmongering, since the world is already operating at a low immunity being brainwashed by the constant "need" for doctors and their harmful potions.
      So, as for the vaccines -- the strategy goes like this: First, you keep scaring them, creating a global nocebo (strong belief in negative outcomes which is bound to become their biology), and then you come up with vaccines, a global placebo (a sense of safety which somewhat upgrades the fallen natural immunity).
      It's all about natural immunity, everything else is but a joke.
      And that immunity is so incredibly, almost outlandishly intelligent -- forget what those smart asses from labs "know" about it and call its components some fancy names.
      Our whole body is composed of more microbes than there are body cells, and many of them are deadly. We never "destroy" a pathogen from our environment, we just know how to handle them with a genius of our immunity.
      It's our crappy life styles, what we consume, and our poor stress management, which make that incredible immunity confused and out of whack.

      Numbers...
      Numbers of WHAT, if the test can detect dead genetic material of viruses killed in our previous infections -- making it a "Covid case"?
      Numbers of WHAT if every flu case, every common cold, bronchitis, sinusitis, allergy symptom has officially become a "Covid case", just because the symptoms are similar?
      And then, look who is mostly talking about "frightening numbers" and getting vaccinated -- if not those who regularly have something going on with their health and keep visiting the "all-knowing-doctors" -- many of their conditions being psychogene.
      At the beginning I mentioned some "statistic numbers" -- showing how there are other, more deadly than covid, threats to our health. But here we go with our fascination over a vaccine that holds no lasting effects, has potential to cause lasting harms, with no liability enforced.
      Hey, you want to hear a little piece of "misinformation"? Allegedly, those smart asses from labs started suspecting that Pfizer vaccine might reprogram our natural immunity -- not for better, but for worse.

      Playing with nature...

      1. Nathanville profile image91
        Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        And that’s supposed to impress me is it?  Well it doesn’t; just the usual misinformation  commonly found on the anti-vaxxers and conspiracy websites. 

        Yeah, let’s talk numbers:-

        •    To date there’s been over 4.76 million covid deaths worldwide:  3.5 times more covid deaths than road traffic accidents.

        •    There are about 1 million people in the UK and 5 million in the USA who suffer from the unpleasant long term illness called ‘Long Covid’, so worldwide the total number isn’t likely to be dissimilar to the 20-50 million you quoted as suffering non-fatal injuries, resulting in long-term disabilities.

        •    Yeah, in the USA the number you give of people who die each year from heart disease and cancer is 655,000 & 606,520; both lower than the 706,317 people in the USA who have died of covid.

        In England & Wales in 2020:  LEADING CAUSES OF DEATH
        •    Covid = 42.4% of all deaths in England & Wales in 2020
        •    Dementia & Alzheimer = 11.5% of all deaths in England & Wales in 2020
        •    Heart disease = 9.2% of all deaths in England & Wales in 2020
        •    Cerebrovascular diseases e.g. strokes etc. = 4.9% of all deaths in England & Wales in 2020
        •    Lung Cancer = 4.7% of all deaths in England & Wales in 2020

        Of course, with the successful covid vaccine rollout this year covid is no longer the leading cause of death in the UK:-

        In England in the month of August 2021:  The leading cause of death was Dementia & Alzheimer (10.9% of all deaths in England in August 2021), with covid being the third leading cause of death, accounting for just 5.3% of all deaths in England in August 2021.

        Your perception being that there is, to quote you: “NO PUBLICIZED SIGNIFICANCE HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ANY OF” the other causes of deaths that you referenced e.g. road accidents, heart disease and cancer etc.  I would dispute that for the following reasons:-

        1.    Covid is contagious, and last year in many countries was the leading cause of death.  Hence the attention to it.

        2.    Other major causes of deaths, including road traffic accidents, heart disease and cancer etc. all get ‘publicised significance’ (attention) proportionally, as where and when appropriate, at least in Europe and the UK; so I assume so in the USA?  For examples:-

        Road Accidents:
        In the UK all fatal road accidents are recorded on a national database to allow the identification of hot-spots where changes can be made to make the road safer; and data is used by Governments to make driving safer e.g. compulsory seat belts, drink drive laws, minimum safety standards on the manufacture of cars etc.

        Heart Disease:
        I don’t know about the USA, but in the UK the NHS run frequent campaigns to create public awareness about heart disease e.g. what to do if some has a heart attack, and encouraging people to eat healthily, and get plenty of exercise, to help reduce the risk of heart disease; and the NHS periodically check your heart when you visit your doctor, so that any early signs of heart disease can be detected.

        Cancer:
        I assume you have regular cancer screening in the USA, as appropriate; at my age I’m regularly checked by the NHS for various forms of cancer:  In February I was x-rayed to check that I didn’t have lung cancer (and that was negative); last month I was tested to check that I didn’t have bowl cancer (and that was negative) and later this month I’ve got an MRI booked to check that I don’t have prostate cancer, and there’s no reason to suppose that that shouldn’t be negative.

        So what more publicity do you want on other causes of deaths such as road accident, heart disease and cancer?

        SOURCES...SOURCES...SOURCES!

        •    Sorry Matey but I was taught the importance of ‘credible sources’ at college; and if I didn’t source theses properly then they would be down-marked (given a low grading).

        •    Likewise, at work, during my last 10 years as a civil servant, report writing was a major part of my job; and if I didn’t properly source my work, with credible sources then the senior managers would reject my report, along with any conclusions and recommendations contained therein.

        •    And of course, last but not least; credible sources (not fiction) is crucial to the advancement of science; which is why any credible scientific report has to be peer-reviewed for it to be accepted by the scientific community.

        You can’t just make things up (thing that you might passionately believe) and proclaim “I right”; any claim has to be scrutinised by others who are competent to scrutinise the work ‘objectively’ e.g. peer review, in order for it to take on any assemblance of credibility.

        FYI professor Sucharit Bhakdi MD is NOT a “highly respected worldwide professor”; according to Wikipedia he has become “a prominent source of misinformation about the Covid pandemic”:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucharit_Bhakdi

        Also FYI Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche’s claims about the covid pandemic have been debunked by Snopes.  Snopes being a reputable ‘fact checking’ website:-

        •    https://www.snopes.com/news/2021/03/26/ … n-bossche/
        •    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snopes

        Your assessment of our natural immunity system and the evils of medical profession, doctors and the pharmaceutical industry, in the first part is ‘teaching granny to suck eggs’ e.g. as well as human biology, I did also study economic history at college, which covered a lot the points you mentioned about the 18th & 19th century.  And in your latter points, you seem to be taking a leaf out of the anti-vaxxer conspiracy websites again; probably because you read and believe all the crap they publish.

        Anyway, the prime covid vaccine that has been used in the UK has been the AstraZeneca Oxford University (and at just $4 per dose is the cheapest covid vaccine in the world); and FYI AstraZeneca (a British Pharmaceutical Company) isn’t making any profit from the vaccine that they make because they are under a lifetime contract with Oxford University, England (who created the vaccine) to sell the vaccine at cost price, for the benefit of mankind.  So it shows that not all Pharmaceutical Companies are evil and money grabbing as you would like to think.

        Also, with regards to your attitudes and beliefs that the big pharma’s are blocking cheap cancer research isn’t strictly true.  There may well be a lot of truth in what you say in respect of the USA; but the USA is not the world. 

        In the UK the NHS work hand-in-hand with universities on cancer research; and also in the ‘Cancer Research UK’ is a large reputable UK wide charity that contributes a lot of resources to cancer research.

        •    A new drug that harnesses the immune system against cancer has been developed by Cancer Research UK (March 2021): https://youtu.be/azun8-FFDvI

        With regards to your last point, the reason covid was upgraded from an endemic to a pandemic is that it is far more contagious and thus deadly than flu, and at the time we had no defences against it other than effective ‘testing, track & trace’, couple with lockdowns, social distancing, mandatory masks, and travel restrictions etc.

        Since then vaccines have been developed, so it is possible, as demonstrated in the UK, to ease up or abolish the covid restrictions where there’s a successful vaccine rollout.

        FYI:-

        •    The ‘R’ value of flu = 1.28
        •    The ‘R’ value of the original covid strains that swept across Europe and the USA is ‘3’
        •    The ‘R’ value of the Delta variant is ‘7’

        In layman’s terms The ‘R’ value indicates how infectious a particular infectious disease is e.g. the original covid variant was 2.34 times more infectious than flu, and the Delta variant is 5.47 times more infectious than flu.

        Sorry matey, but your assumptions about fear and scaremongering to lower the immune system to get people to get vaccinate is all crap that is being circulated by the anti-vaxxers and the conspiracy theory websites. 

        I and people I know have not been living in fear of the virus, like you make out; and generally our immune systems are as good as they should be; but, and this is the bit you can’t seem to grasp (but which because I took human biology at college I understand); the vaccines don’t weaken the immune system (as the anti-vaxxers would like you to believe), the vaccines help to prepare the immune system against infection from covid.

        The one thing I would agree with you is that too many people, particularly in the USA, and to a large extent in the UK, do have crappy life styles, which does affect their health; but that’s nothing to do with the pandemic nor the vaccines – that is a separate issue, which in the UK the NHS running awareness campaigns to encourage people to have a healthier life style. 

        AS REGARDS YOUR CLOSING STATEMENTS ‘NUMBERS’:
        •    On your first point, you completely ignore the fact that in the UK at least (and I suspect in other countries too) that the 5-year average of excess deaths is calculated specifically as a double check that any official figures of covid deaths is reasonable.  For example, in England in August 2021 there were 9.9% more deaths than the August five-year average; while the number of deaths from covid was 5.3%, well within acceptable margins, indicating that statistically the number of recorded covid deaths is not unrealistic.

        As regards your comment “And then, look who is mostly talking about "frightening numbers" and getting vaccinated -- if not those who regularly have something going on with their health and keep visiting the "all-knowing-doctors" -- many of their conditions being psychogene.” 

        I assume that is a dig at me because I mentioned that I was rushed to hospital in an ambulance in January, where I spent three weeks, and I‘ve also mentioned my two sessions with the NHS nutritionist since etc.   Well firstly, the reason I was rushed to hospital in an Ambulance in January is because (as it was turned out) I was on the verge of kidney failure (which would have been fatal). 

        Having kidney failure has nothing to do with the immune system, nor life style.  As it happens I am a vegetarian, I don’t junk food, and all the vegetables we eat (except for potatoes) are harvested from our back garden, along with a lot of the fruit that we eat during the summer months.  So I’m already on a healthy life style with a healthy diet.  So don’t make assumptions about people until you know the background information.

        Besides, don’t forget that healthcare is ‘FREE at the Point of Use’ in the UK, so why shouldn’t I take advantage of a ‘free medical service’ and regularly consult with my doctor and speak with an NHS nutritionist when its ALL FREE.  And in my case it is all free in every sense of the word because being retired and thus I don’t pay any taxes.

        As regards you concluding comments on vaccines; the bulk of your statement is nothing more than misinformation being published on the conspiracy websites by the anti-vaxxers.  For example your statement “a vaccine that holds no lasting effects” is a false statement e.g. the AstraZeneca vaccine used in the UK proved to be 60% effective in preventing infection when first administered and after six months is still over 40% effective in preventing infection in vaccinated people.  Likewise, although there has been a marginal drop in preventing serious illness (hospitalisation) over the six months, the vast bulk of people ending up in hospital in the UK (around 98%) are the unvaccinated.  And after six months the vaccine is proving to be almost fully effective in preventing death in the vaccinated.

        Your last statement “Allegedly, those smart asses from labs started suspecting that Pfizer vaccine might reprogram our natural immunity -- not for better, but for worse.”, that is pure misinformation circulated by anti-vaxxers, if you up on the source story you will find ‘statements’ have been taken out of ‘context’ to twist the meaning and make out that the report says something completely different to what it actually says.

    23. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 12 months ago

      Arthur -- You fit the definition of a typical medically brainwashed individual, obsessing about threatening numbers -- while not allowing the possibility that the "misinformation" may be coming from the very sources that you are trusting.
      In your own words, you keep checking up on the state of your health, as if in a chronic fear of what might befall you, whether it's a bug infection, a cancer, a heart problem, or anything. I am getting a picture of someone who starts panicking as soon as he sneezes.

      At this age of 77, I haven't been at a doctor for 15 years, haven't taken any prescription or over the counter meds, I can still read the finest print without glasses -- and yes, I believe health is possible without doctors -- of course, barring emergencies.

      In other words, I believe in living, not in fear of dying.

      Back to the numbers -- how do you "know" all those people have really died of Covid-19? Answer -- because you chose to believe what this or that "health authority" said it, right? So you see yourself as a competent evaluator of whose science is true, and whose is wrong, which information is true, and which is false.

      Let's get to something else. How do you explain that hospital doctors and nurses are massively quitting because they are being mandated to take a vaccine?
      DO YOU HAVE HIGHER EDUCATION IN MEDICINE THAN THEY DO, AS TO DEBUNK THE VALIDITY OF THEIR REASONS?
      Or, again, you choose to believe that their quitting is also a "false information"?

      Then, you keep trumpeting about the situation in the U.K. -- admitting that "you know nothing about what's going on in the United States." So, even if all your bragging statements were true about nonexistent protests in the U.K., what makes you competent to contribute to this discussion if you only "know" what's happening in your own country?
      Even that's questionable, since I saw a new protest there. Of course, you say it's "an uneducated minority" -- while the video clearly says it's "thousands of people involved", which gives a strange look at your definition of "minority".

      All this time you sound to me like someone who would respond to a hypothetical world's evidence of high home invasion cases going on -- by saying how YOU have installed some locks that cannot be picked. As if your imagined safety is to deny all that evidence.
      Sorry to say it, buddy, but who the hell ultimately cares what signs of safety you are imagining to see in your own country, which numbers you are believing in, and which ones you are discarding as false?

      Why don't you try hearing about those scientists, doctors, and nurses who have no trust in these vaccines? Why don't you ask yourself that crucial question: IF VACCINES ARE SAFE, WHY THEIR PRODUCERS ARE NOT LIABLE FOR ANY DEATHS OR DAMAGES?

      And finally, why do you choose to be blind about what's really going on in the world -- hopefully not seeing the U.K. as the only country on this planet?
      Like, the information coming about 77% of Singapore people being fully vaccinated but deaths doubling.

      I am not a psychic, but I can envision you as instantly calling this "another "misinformation".

      Man, you live in a bubble created by the world's manipulators using the mainstream media as a tool.
      I just wonder what you will say when some time soon -- when after being pressed by something like "general strike" around the globe, suddenly your trusted authorities pronounce "victory over pandemic, which has been downsized to endemic like yearly flu -- with no need for any further restrictions or vaccines".
      And suddenly, all those suppressed drugs get to be recognized for those who may feel the symptoms.
      You don't believe it may come to that? Are you aware at all about the mood of the world's masses who won't be intimidated?
      If not, what's the use of telling you anything.

      1. Nathanville profile image91
        Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        WRONG…Wrong…wrong…

        #1:  I happen to be scientifically minded, so I understand and appreciate the scientific evidence I follow.  While you just don’t understand or trust the science, you’d much rather trust the conspiracy theorists; that’s your choice, and you’re sticking to it.

        #2:  Now you’re misquoting me, I didn’t say that I “keep checking up on the state of my health”.  One thing that I am not is a hypochondriac; in fact I quite the reverse (to my wife’s annoyance), which is why I landed up being rushed to hospital in an ambulance in January (medical emergency):-

        •    Until I fell ill in January, with kidney problems, the only other time I bothered to visit the doctor was back in the early 1990’s when I had tonsillitis, which was treated with a course of penicillin.  So until this January I hadn’t been to see a doctor for over 25 years.

        •    Therefore, I haven’t had any prescriptions or over the counter meds, not even paracetamols; I don’t wear glasses and have excellent vision; and excellent hearing, and a full head of hair.

        The reason I’ve had a lot of medical attention this year, which is obviously what confused you into thinking I’m a hypochondriac, is partly the aftermath of my kidney problems earlier in the year e.g. the hospital want to keep an eye on me to firstly check that I am making a good recovery, and secondly, while I was in hospital for the three weeks the hospital took full advantage of the situation, and before discharging me, gave me a full and detailed examination to ensure I didn’t have any other health issues; that included x-ray to check my lungs; they checked my breathing, they did a full ECG on my twice; gave me several scans of different types to check every internal organ.

        Fortunately, all the testing they did on my in hospital, were all negative, giving me a full ‘bill of health’ in all respects other than kidney problems.

        The reason I ended up in hospital in the first place is because ignored the signs, and didn’t go to the doctor until it was too late; by which time I was just days away from complete kidney failure and death.  If I had gone to the doctor when I first had problems I would have been treated at home by the ‘District Nurse’ and the problem adverted before it became life threatening.

        As regards all the various cancer tests I’ve had this year (all negative, fortunately), and the scan for AAA (Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm), I didn’t seek to have all the tests and scans, the NHS contacted me, asking me to get the tests, because of my age e.g. as part of their ‘Preventative Medicine’ policy, in the UK the NHS writes to everyone over 60 offering them screening for all the various cancers and other common illnesses that are high risk in older people, and which can be treated with a high success rate if detected early.

        Therefore, not to take the NHS up on their offers for free screening, when they contact you, would be foolish, especially as it’s FREE (at the point of use).  Maybe in the USA, where you don’t have a free health service, the concept of your healthcare provider offering you preventative screening for cancer etc., is something that is alien to you?

        Approximately 39.5% of men and women will be diagnosed with cancer at some point during their lifetime, so at age 77 your insinuation that you’re impervious to ever getting cancer seems a bit full hardy to me; but hey, that’s you choice.

        FYI, when I’ve pulled a muscle in my back, sprained my ankle, or badly cut myself in the garden or my workshop etc., contrary to your assertions that I “start panicking”, and the annoyance of my wife, I general ignore it and continue as if nothing is wrong; and invariable within a few days things get better.

        So like you, I believe in living, not in fear of dying.

        NUMBERS:
        In the UK most certainly, and to a large extend in the Industrialised nations, I do know and understand the statistics on the published covid deaths; more than you do – and that’s because I know and understand the science behind it, which you don’t.

        It wasn’t just Human Biology I studied at college for the exams and qualifications; the other sciences I studied were Physics and Astronomy; and I also did ‘Statistics’ as a separate subject for my studies and exams at college to get the qualifications I needed for work.

        Also Quantum Mechanics is a subject I follow as a hobby (interest) in my spare time.

        Therefore I live & breath science, and thus I have an understanding (and trust) of it far beyond anything you’ll ever understand.

        With regards to your comments “How do you explain that hospital doctors and nurses are massively quitting because they are being mandated to take a vaccine?”  Where is your evidence (link), you can’t surly truly expect me to comment on something without seeing what you’re talking about; although I think you are somewhat exaggerating the facts e.g. I don’t think “massively” quitting is true.  And while it wouldn’t surprise me if you are talking about the USA (where vaccine hesitancy is much higher), it’s a universal issue e.g. it’s not an issue in the UK.

        With regards to your comment “what makes you competent to contribute to this discussion if you only "know" what's happening in your own country?”  The ‘pot calling the kettle black’; likewise, with your ignorance of the world outside the USA, what makes you competent to contribute to this discussion if you only "know" what's happening in your own country?” 

        Again you are misquoting me, I never said the protest in the UK were ‘non-existent’, I merely pointed out that by European/British standards such protests (thousands of people congregating in London) is insignificant, and unrepresentative of public opinion. 

        To put it into context ‘protest’ in London is a common occurrence; hardly a month goes by where there isn’t some protest or other (often thousands of people) demonstrating in London.  Currently it’s the turn of the ‘Insulate Britain Protestors’:  Insulate Britain protesters face prison if they cause further disruption (22nd September 2021):  https://youtu.be/8QsclXv6T5o

        But as I ‘ve said before, it not the small protests of just thousands congregating in London that gets the support of the British Public or the attention of the Government; it’s the larger ‘nationwide’ protests that run in the tens and hundreds of thousands that get the attention.  Like these protests below:-

        •    'Kill the bill' protest: police vans set alight and police station stormed in Bristol in March 2021, as part of nationwide protests (the city where I live):  https://youtu.be/vl7zVmo_n9Y

        •    BLM protestors pull down statue of slave trader in Bristol (where I live) in June 2020:  https://youtu.be/7V6TtUSbbpc

        •    Poll Tax Riots 31st March 1990 (which led to the resignation of Margaret Thatcher, then Prime Minister):  https://youtu.be/IwAgaxbJyuk

        •    London protests send clear message to Trump: You're not welcome (July 2018): https://youtu.be/I6L7CBhVvaY

        Yep, your comment “And finally, why do you choose to be blind about what's really going on in the world -- hopefully not seeing the U.K. as the only country on this planet?” is just how I feel about you “Why do you choose to be blind about what's really going on in the world - hopefully not seeing the USA as the only country on this planet?”

        Your comment “And finally, why do you choose to be blind about what's really going on in the world….. Like, the information coming about 77% of Singapore people being fully vaccinated but deaths doubling.

        Gee whizz, Singapore with a population of 5.7 million have had a grand total of just 80 deaths since the start of the pandemic 18 months ago, an average of less than 1 death a day, and currently standing at 3 deaths a day.  FYI, due to the high level of vaccinations and low case count Singapore eased their covid restriction on the 10th August; after which new covid cases have spiked leading to a slight increase in death from less than 1 a day to 2 or 3 a day.  Consequently Singapore are tightening the covid restrictions again e.g. social distancing and mandatory masks from the 27th September until the 24th October.

        It’s a similar situation in the UK e.g. all covid restrictions, including social distancing and mandatory masks were abolished on the 19th July, after which new cases spiked back to two thirds of what they were at its height, hospitalisations from covid increased back to just a sixth of what it was (98% hospital patients with covid being unvaccinated), and covid deaths increased by just one tenth:  A good indication that the vaccine is working.

    24. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 12 months ago

      Arthur -- Quite obviously, in this discussion we are coming from two totally different mind sets. You are calling yourself science-minded, which, by itself, means nothing, because you can still be extremely selective how you are interpreting science, how you cherry-pick facts and mix them with your own convictions, by your personalized intellectual taste.
      Furthermore, two scientists of equal credentials may argue no end, which is somewhat well illustrated by three blind men describing an elephant by touching its different parts of the body.
      Then, you don't have to be a hypochondriac to be overly concerned about your health. Hypochondriac's health issues are imaginary, while yours appear to be real.
      Now, I don't live in America, but in Canada, just somewhat aware of our neighbor's most burning issues.
      I am not into numbers, which doesn't mean that I am not into science. Being a pragmatic dude, I have no use for abstract and "sterile" figures which may be highly informative, but in terms of my cultivation of my mind style mean nothing at all.
      Like, knowing anything about "how many of who-or-what" is experiencing something, doesn't add anything to my own personal advancement.
      So, I am into sciences which I can concretely apply, like self-hypnosis, epigenetics, mind-over body medicine, quantum mechanics where it means  our level of consciousness as its effects the quantum of our intimate, physical, and circumstantial reality.
      I have also meditated for about half century, explored my own unused potential, and manifested quite some results in my overall psycho-physical model of functioning.
      Therefore, again, you can play with your numbers and statistics all you want -- I am not calling it "useless", that's what you like, that's your inner call.
      The only thing is that our respective interests are so damn different that we could keep kicking this crap back and forth until we turn blue in face -- never getting anywhere.
      Quite honestly, being an individualist of my own design, I don't have much of a collectivistic passion in me as to be impressed with the world, our cultural paradigm and its craziness stemming from a very slow baby steps in consciousness evolution.
      In other words, I see the world as pretty much stupid in its reluctance to sever the umbilical cord keeping it stuck in history. Actually, it's still the human primitivism bordering with animalistic that's perpetuating this historical neuroticism.

      This pandemic with its political component makes me laugh.
      Indeed, the whole charade over it makes me laugh -- the numbers, the restrictions, the vaccines, the easily explainable low collective immunity in terms of psycho-neuro-immunology -- it all makes me laugh.
      .
      Contrary to your impressions -- which is forgivable like much of your other reasoning about me -- I am not into "conspiracy theorizing". Now, take it as an offence if you wish, although none is intended -- but at this point I don't even see why I should care what you think about me. And why should you care what I think about you.
      We know ridiculously little about each other, and this high-school-style debate is truly below my basic human dignity.
      So, let's quit it before we start calling each other names -- out of some crazy fun, I would guess.

      1. Nathanville profile image91
        Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        Yep we are of two completely different and opposite mind sets, so much so that there is no possibility of finding common ground on this subject.

        However, before signing off, I would like to make just one last point (for the record), with reference to your two first paragraphs above.

        FYI I don’t cherry-pick the facts, I ‘fact-check’ as I was taught at college and at work.

        Also, while individual scientists don’t always agree, consensus is achieved throughout the scientific community through a process called ‘peer review’; and it’s the peered review reports that have more value, because you know that they have been vetted by reputable scientists from around the world.

        •    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer_review

        •    How to Spot Fake News:  https://youtu.be/AkwWcHekMdo

        And finally FYI, although I like to “always look on the bright side of life”, I’m also a pragmatist; summed up by little ditty:-  https://youtu.be/SJUhlRoBL8M

    25. Readmikenow profile image94
      Readmikenowposted 12 months ago

      https://hubstatic.com/15735224.jpg

      1. Castlepaloma profile image74
        Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        +

    26. profile image0
      ValKarasposted 12 months ago

      Arthur -- What if the consensus is wrong, along with what you have learned at college? There was a time when it was a "consensus" that the earth was "flat".
      The very progress of science is in the dissatisfaction with the fund of knowledge achieved, in creative curiosity, in growth, making the status quo only temporary.
      Like in my own personal evolution, I've been cultivating new "technology of processing reality", new models of emotional experiencing, and a new psycho-philosophy of life. Every stage was O.K., as a developmental phase from which sprung something new.
      What you are calling "facts that can be checked" -- just calls for the question "who is really that final authority that is called upon to prove them correct"?

      Like, how can a highest virologist be called "right", if the one who had signed their diploma was wrong?

      The scientific community that I am following is clearly aspiring to do away with the paradigm which has not shown anything -- other than technology -- to be proud of.
      Politics stinks, patriotism stinks religious indoctrination stinks, medico-pharmaceutical establishment stinks, education stinks, science of nutrition stinks, music stinks, art stinks, so many of our accepted values stink -- the whole damn paradigm is crying for something else that could justify calling ourselves "homo sapiens".
      For a dash of humor, sometimes I pray that some highly advanced space beings show up and teach us a thing or two, because we are obviously stuck in our illusions.

      Masses are brainwashed, duped, over-and-over acting out some wrong beliefs in their mental automatisms.
      So we still live in the animalistic survival mode, spelling greed, arrogance, competition, deceit, pretense, hoarding the means of survival.
      The existing disharmony in our coexistence is the only proof we need that science knows shit.
      Oh. yes, we are so smart that we could split an atom -- and then build some cute nukes with that knowledge. How damn smart we are, indeed.

      Of course, nurturing my stress management to an enviable degree -- I trained myself to feel divinely blissful at will, regardless of circumstances -- all that mentioned is just growing pains of the mankind which are to be understood, even faced with compassion -- but not something to cheer about, if we don't want to deceive ourselves.
      Like, we love our children in each stage of their growth, but that doesn't mean that we have to buy their reasoning.

      And then we come to this unavoidable part in our discussion, where our very willingness to find a common ground is in question. So we obviously prolong this silly exchange, as if we "haven't been convincing enough", "correct enough", making the other "wrong enough."

      However, it's been fun, but every fun must come to an end. Let's, at least, agree over that. Lol.
      Be well, Arthur.

      1. Nathanville profile image91
        Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        Reference your comment:-

        “What you are calling "facts that can be checked" -- just calls for the question "who is really that final authority that is called upon to prove them correct"?

        Well if a publisher is happy to publish absurd articles, and try and pass them off as news, such as ‘little green men from Mars’, or ‘Aliens kidnapped my wife’ etc., then what credibility does that give them when they write about pandemics and vaccination?

        How false news can spread:  https://youtu.be/cSKGa_7XJkg

        Avoiding sensationalist media, searching for criticisms of suspicious information, and tracing the original source of a report can go a long way in exposing a lie.

        Where Conspiracy Theorists Steal Their Ideas From -Truth Hurts:  https://youtu.be/Y4hpedzjQZ8

        If you want to continue believing any old rubbish without checking its validity, that’s up to you.  But FYI I don’t take anything at face value.

     
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