Should the U.S. have mandatory military service?

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   tsmogposted 2 years ago

   There are 49 countries with mandatory military service. There are pro's and con's. Some are males only while others are both genders. What do you think? Do you see advantages for the nation as well as the individual? How about disadvantages? How would it impact out global position?
   
   The following article lists the 49 countries and how they do it.
   https://www.thesoldiersproject.org/coun … y-service/

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      Nathanvilleposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      My view is that while mandatory military service (Conscription) may be necessary during wartime, and in countries where the threat of war is ever present, Conscription does not produce the best ‘fighting force’.
      
      National Service was abolished in the UK in 1960, and the view of the British Army is that they prefer to rely on ‘volunteers’ only, simply because in time of conflict volunteers make for a more dedicated fighting force than conscripted soldiers.
      
      That being said, Britain is heavily reliant on Gurkhas serving in its armed forces, one Gurkha is worth 100 ordinary soldiers in conflict, which is why during any conflict the Gurkhas in the British Army are at the forefront, playing a leading role.
      
      Most Hard-core Soldiers – Gurkhas: https://youtu.be/Nes7BdtB0g0
      
      Gurkhas recruitment into the British Army: https://youtu.be/NP0Q14j5WEA

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      Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting inquiry, TSmog
      
      
      In America, all young people, male and female should be required to register, rather than just men today. 18-25?
      
      I think that it is a good idea to have a similar arrangement for a period of "national service" under the same conditions as the registration for the military requirement.
      
      Anyone actually called into service in either program or volunteer will have eligibility for certain benefits depending upon how long they serve. Roughly similar to my GI Bill benefits for my military service designed to entice rather than to compel citizen participation.

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         tsmogposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks Cred! I have mixed thoughts about it. What prompted my question was an excursion to discover age group for the unemployed while pondering why are they unemployed. Interesting is for age group 16-19 it is about 17% for women and maybe 19% for men. Age group 20-24 for women it is close to 14% and men the same.
         
         Unemployment Rates - U.S. Dept of Labor
         https://www.dol.gov/agencies/wb/data/la … ment-rates
         
         Then I thought if there was mandatory military service even as some countries only for six months there is opportunity to assess a person through testing for what work type they are suited for. And, I think it fosters self-confidence and self-esteem while may offer life choice direction. Also, team work. I see that as plus for the individual and the nation.

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            Nathanvilleposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Although we don't have Conscription in the UK (volunteers only); any one in the UK (male or female) can serve in the Military from the age of 16; the only country in Europe to routinely recruit people that young, and a policy which has been heavily criticised by the UN.
            
            Raw Recruits at age 16 in the UK: https://youtu.be/m5l2CnaEhIQ

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               tsmogposted 2 years agoin reply to this

               That is young, yet perhaps it is valuable to society and the nation. We do have to register for the draft, yet it is now voluntary. As stated in the post you replied to I was curious with the context being a high unemployment rate for those shall we say 25 or younger to high school graduate age.
               
               I just have an odd hunch if it was mandatory for even a six month service like some countries do there is opportunity to give a leg up to those through vocational testing and such. And, actually would not hinder those inclined to go to college or 'feel' they know what they want to do for work. Like I said have mixed thoughts about it. It may change their mind.
               
               Like my nephew got a degree in microbiology and when entered the field he disliked it and changed career direction. Kinda' sad, yet just going to learning institution one learns how to learn.

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                  Nathanvilleposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  Looking at the USA unemployment rate you gave above for the under 25s, and comparing it with the UK; it’s not as bad in the UK, which for July 2022 currently stands at:-
                  
                  •    UK unemployment = 3.8%
                  •    UK unemployment for 16-24 year olds = 10.4%
                  
                  The 10.4% unemployment for the under 25s in the UK is down from 13% during the pandemic, and down from 12.3% pre-pandemic; so although it’s high, it seems to be heading in the right direction.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         women too?
         why? cuz they don't have uteruses? They can't be considered women
         any more than men? cuz men and women alike can get pregnant?
         
         

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            Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            With equal rights come equal responsibilities and obligations, now we both should know that .......

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

               ... in theory, but not in reality.
               follow the theory and you will suffer.
               
               "If you don't listen to Mother Nature, she will box your ears."

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                  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  The goal then should be to make the reality more like the theory.
                  
                  There are female fighter pilots, and they are giving the opportunity to compete in all aspects of military service, in return they acquire the experience and such to Reach the highest levels of command on an equal basis with men.
                  
                  No one will draft a pregnant women, but that in itself should not allow women to be excluded from a conscription in its entirety.
                  
                  If you want to be a lumberjack, you better be prepared to handle your side of the log.
                  
                  What is it with  conservatives and their "Donna Reed" mode of thinking when it comes to this? You point is a conservative attitude one, is it not?

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                     Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                     Women should not be drafted. Period. It's pure common sense.

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                        Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                        Whatever floats your boat, Kathryn. I wonder what others have to say about this.

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                           Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                           Chivalry is not dead, I predict and women know to protect themselves on a subconscious level.
                           Those who want to bypass their maternal desires or ambitions are free to enlist of their own accord.

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                              Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                              I have to insist that it should be either voluntary for everybody or nobody.

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                                 Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                                 It is not going to happen, so I wouldn't worry about it.
                                 
                                 The army is half the size it was twenty years ago.
                                 
                                 It will continue to downsize, missiles, drones, robots will be the future of warfare.

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                                    Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                                    You are probably right about this.....

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                                    Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                                    I'm sure you were taught when you were in the Army, like I was taught, that all wars are eventually decided on the battlefield with soldier against soldier. I don't think tech will change that aspect of warfare. During the Iraq war the US had air superiority. We still had to go head on with the Iraq military.

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                                       Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                                       I can't agree with that.
                                       
                                       Technology will soon surpass a human's ability to kill in every way.
                                       
                                       The country with the superior technology will win.  Drones, missiles, robots, will have AIs as well as human controllers sitting in some safe room thousands of miles away from the kill zone.
                                       
                                       We are using those technologies today, in a few years time they will be so superior to human soldiers there will be no point in having standing armies... they will just be cannon fodder for missiles and drones that come from thousands of miles away.

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                                          Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                                          I think, unless an agreement is made to that effect, like you shouldn't use a chemical weapon, during a war.                              Drones against drones, missiles  against missites, only targets technology.                                       In one of the war movies I've watched, 'Navy Seal Team 8' the drone was targeting the bad soja boys. It was set in South Africa. The teck drone was shot down, and the army had to meet the bad boys on the battle field.                                    During the 2nd. WW Germany had the superior air power in bombing London. But thanks to the radar. When German war planes took off, London was in control.                                              Ken, you and Mike were once sojas. I'm not. But the army not fighting on the battle field again reduce the honour of war to a childish play. Sojaing on the war front is what counts.

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                                             Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                                             Current technological advances in the field today:
                                             
                                             https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLmmPnMvwNY
                                             
                                             https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLDOvPIgxDE
                                             
                                             https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IkaP6XMNZw

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                                                Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                                                Thank you. To me, sojaing on the battle field count much. Otherwise, what's the army there for?

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                                 Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                                 I agree with you. There are many ways women are able to serve in the military.

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                                    Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                                    I do agree likewise.

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      Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I've read the link. My thought is that those who have the miltary service are best at accessing the post.                                                                 That said, conscript, or voluntary, I believe its those that have the baptist of fire are best to tell us about the challenge. Nevertheless, soldiering is interesting for the lion heart!                                          During the Nigerian Civil War, when conscritions are much needed, many young men ran and hide. After the war, these very same wants to join the army. I was 12 and half years back then.                                       Nevertheless, i continue my primary school and finish my secondary education. Then, I voluntary went to be recruit into the Nigerian Army (to be a soja). I was 'status barred' due to age limit of 19 years, for the commission officers cadre.

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         tsmogposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks for the input. Yes, there are those that are just set against the military for different reasons such as having to go to war.

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            Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            I'm a believer in Christ, and the Almighty Creator, advise a person not to go to war if he's fearful of being killed. And, those that invest interest in their wives.                                                  Of course, war is a product of soldiering. If you can't buy it, back out.                                                  At the university, I read history at degree level. That's mostly about war.

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      Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I think there is exceptional value in this.
      
      For those who do serve, they feel they have a vested interest in the country.
      
      Many will learn self-confidence, social skills, trade skills, etc.
      
      There is cohesiveness, a nationalization even of perspective.

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         tsmogposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         In my view great positive points I agree with.

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      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      As you know the Vietnam protest was mostly about being forced to fight a war people did not believe in.
      Nixon did us all a favor by making military service voluntary.

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      gmwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      No, military service should be completely voluntary.

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   Readmikenowposted 2 years ago

   In my family, it was an expectation for a male's first step out of high school be the military.  I was shocked when I was young and found out it wasn't mandatory.
   
   I was in the military for over a decade.  It's not for everyone.  You don't want to be in a tense situation with someone who doesn't want to be there.  Attitude is everything.
   
   I would be against a conscripted military.  I think an all-volunteer force leads to a professional military. 
   
   Russia has a conscripted military. It hasn't done them well.

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      Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      RMN, I know your're a military man, and you'll chirp in. Welcome to the discussion.

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      gmwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      AMEN.

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   Miebakagh57posted 2 years ago

   I'm in complete agreement with both of you: Kathryn, and Credence.                                     Some women are so build, that their had a propondence of the hormone testosterone, in their bloodstream, that surpass that of some men already sojaing.                                Critically, such women rarely go for enlistment. Very few of such are in the non-commission officer cadre as nurses, doctors, teachers, telephone and computer operators.                                      Still, if a woman wants to be enlisted as a combatant, a test I think is usual udertaken to see how fit she's capable to endue the harzards of war, day or night. Of all the war movies I've ever watched, I rarely found a lady play a manly role. Seriously, no single soldiering dame appear in the film, 'Delta Force'. All the actors are men.

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   tsmogposted 2 years ago

   For the curious below is a link to the complete list of 'Army' Enlisted Military Occupational Specialty Code (MOS). Also, "The Army is the only service that offers a guaranteed job (MOS) to everyone, even though it might not be the exact one you want." And, they use the 'The Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB) is a heavily researched and well-respected aptitude test developed by the Department of Defense. It measures a young adult’s strengths and potential for success in military training.'
   
   https://www.thebalancecareers.com/compl … -s-3346173
   
   There are two versions of the test:
   
   ** The enlistment version of the ASVAB is given at a Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS) and is used for recruiting purposes only.
   ** The student testing program, also known as the ASVAB Career Exploration Program (CEP), is used for career exploration and is given in high schools and community colleges, at job corps centers and at correctional facilities.
   
   https://www.officialasvab.com/applicant … to-expect/

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      Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      It's a good read. Thank you.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

   Maybe we are at war and we don't even know it here in US.
   - America vs the Elitists, China etc? (whoever has Biden under their thumb...)
   What kind of a war are we even talking about anymore.
   
   Surely, Russia could have found a better way to get what it wanted out of Ukraine.
   Who wants to suffer as both of those countries are?
   A smarter way to protect, defend and offend ...
   
   and in that case, I'm sure women will play a powerful role.
   Do they have to be drafted?
   No.
   Men, either.

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      Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Kathryn, it seems to implies that the war, you had in mind, is sitting round the table, and jaw jaw jaw, right? lol!

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Take a look around. America is suffering.
         "Biden" is the President of many failures. How come?
         We are being attacked with no shots fired, are we not?

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            Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            I had not imagine that my Kathryn. Biden, President of many failure?                                  Yesterday, at around the time I made the post you commented on, I was thinking at the back of my head if ever  Joseph Biden had a brain!                                   Because, a guy wants Trump, in prison, and and also killed (I've ask him to explain more), I'm wondering if the present maladministration was Trump, in action? Okay, let me hear from the weird bud, and I'll post you.

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