The Many Cost Of Illegal Immigrants - Hard To Face But Relevant

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Sharlee01posted 2 years ago

Illegal immigrants who entered US since Biden took office to cost taxpayers $20+ billion a year: analysis -- Biden administration has released more than a million illegal immigrants into the US

"FIRST ON FOX: The number of illegal immigrants who entered the U.S. since President Biden took office will cost the U.S. taxpayer over $20 billion each year, according to a new analysis by a hawkish immigration group.

The study by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), which advocates for lower levels of immigration overall, calculates that the illegal immigrants who have entered the U.S. since Jan. 2021 will add an extra $20.4 billion burden a year, in addition to the $140 billion existing illegal immigrants already cost.

The analysis is based on an estimated 1.3 million released into the U.S. by immigration officials, as well as approximately one million "gotaways" -- or illegal immigrants who have slipped past overwhelmed agents. FAIR calculates that each illegal immigrants costs $9,232 a year to support.

The U.S. has been in the midst of a massive border crisis since early 2021, with more than 1.7 million migrant encounters in FY 2021, and more than two million in FY 2022 so far. While many of those encounters are repeat encounters, and nearly half are removed under Title 42 public health protections, a considerable number are released into the U.S. for asylum hearings.

NUMBER OF ILLEGAL MIGRANTS WHO ENTERED US SINCE BIDEN TOOK OFFICE APPROACHING TWO MILLION

DHS sources told Fox News that there have been more than 500,000 "gotaways" into the U.S. this fiscal year until July, making at least 900,000 gotaways in FY 21 and 22.

FAIR, which calls for stricter border controls as part of a range of broader immigration reforms, laid out the money the estimated $20.4 billion could be spent on instead -- including providing every homeless veteran in the U.S. $50K a year for the next 10 years.

The money, the analysis says, could also hire 330,000 teachers, fund and expand the National School Lunch Program, provide Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program benefits to more than 7 million extra families or provide every family earning less than $50K a year a $410 grocery voucher.

It could also construct the entire wall at the southern border -- a project that began under the Trump administration.

"Even in an age in which trillion dollar spending packages and are considered modest, the additional $20.4 billion the Biden Border Crisis has heaped onto the backs of American taxpayers is still staggering," Dan Stein, president of FAIR, said in a statement. "$20.4 billion could address some very important needs of the American public, instead of covering the costs of the surge of illegal migration triggered by this administration’s policies."

The analysis comes amid continued conservative and Republican criticism of the Biden administration’s border policies -- which they have blamed for fueling the crisis by encouraging migrants to make the journey north. They argue that the policies have made it easier for migrants to enter the U.S. and be released, while simultaneously reducing interior enforcement.

The Biden administration has stressed that it is seeking to solve the "root causes" of the crisis, like poverty, violence and corruption in Central America. It has touted additional funding for Homeland Security as well as a recent anti-smuggling operation, while claiming its interior enforcement focuses on immediate threats to public safety and national security.

Vice President Kamala Harris, who is leading diplomatic outreach to combat root causes, defended the Biden administration’s policies on Sunday -- and claimed that the border is "secure," while calling for amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants.

So What Is The Biden Adminsrations Solution To This Growing Horrendous Problem?

"I think that there is no question that we have to do what the president and I asked Congress to do, the first request we made: PASS A BILL TO CREATE A PATHWAY TO CITIZENSHIP," Harris said on "Meet the Press." "The border is secure, but we also have a broken immigration system, in particular, over the last four years before we came in, and it needs to be fixed."

Well, what this says to me --- Come on in we will offer you citizenship by LAW !

Will this administration ever stop sending out invitations to migrants? It well appears in my view, that they purposely created this border problem and ignored it for the same reason.
To build a base of migrants ... This is all out sickening. They have ignored all the many many problems that open borders cause for political reasoning. Wake up people we have a giant problem brewing.

Hopefully, this article got you thinking, and hopefully, you will share your thoughts.

Article source - https://www.foxnews.com/politics/illega … r-analysis
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Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago
These immigrants needed to stay and take care of their own home-lands and figure out how to generate their economies. Instead, I agree that they were beckoned and enticed by US with the hope of taking American jobs, many with the goal of sending money back to struggling fathers, mothers, siblings and offspring back at home, whatever county that might be.

Did anyone explain how hard it would be to do that here?

Nevertheless and naturally, we help them out. Of course, it is proving to be an expensive task. But, apparently, half the people/citizens are on board with Biden's lackadaisical border policies and decision to attract them here.

So, I guess Lefters are on board with PAYING FOR THEM.

Right?

Wondering.
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Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years ago
President Biden proposed an immigration bill on his first day in office. Where are the efforts to work on this? On both sides?.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  - what are you saying, F.F.?
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not so sure Republicans want to cooperate with negotiating any sort of immigration reform at this time. They'd have to give up the fear mongering mantra that folks are
  losing their country to immigrants from south of the border. If they fix it they can't run on it. And they would never want to let President Biden have credit for the fix. Our government operates in this petty manner. Far too many politicians value continuing their career rather than the good of the people they serve.
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Obama and Trump had the border under control. These border crossing numbers are history-making as well as drug deaths.
  
  In my view, Biden caused this problem we had 10 years of low crossings, until Biden.
  
  https://nypost.com/2022/07/18/us-shatte … ngle-year/
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  gmwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  +1000000000000000, send all illegals back to their country of origin.
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  wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I, too, doubt that Republicans will "cooperate" with Democrats...in simply giving citizenship to anyone who has, or will, cross the border.
  
  I would support that refusal, too, as much as we need reform.
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, don't you just love Haris solution? She is so dense she just offers up --the truth. I guess she has given many a good campaign line.
  
  I truely could not believe it, she had more gems in the Todd interview.
  
  I guess we can add that to the list that theDema will pass if they get the majority. Here is the short list.
  Get rid of the Fillibuster
  Increase the number of justices on the Supreme court
  New Taxes that punish Capitalists.
  And now just keep the borders open, with citizenship to those that make the trip.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Those that sit back and complain while offering no solutions are just as much to blame. Our senate or some both sides of the aisle could hammer out some reasonable, logical solutions to the issues at hand. But not surprisingly all we have is complaining in finger pointing.
  What are Republicans calling for? Maybe specifically the candidates in this November's midterm election? What are their ideas and solutions for the border? I've looked and can honestly say I haven't seen a statement from any of them.
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Harris offered the solution she would hope congress would pass. I am finger-pointing, I am using the science of charts, numbers... Obama and Trump both worked on solutions, they did not ignore the problem.
  
  "What are Republicans calling for? " In my state, Republicans have gotten behind John James, he received 85% of the vote and will be a strong candidate. He is an exemplary man in my view. His agenda is an American first, crime, economy, education, and border. He has conservative values. https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-gover … bout-trump
  
  I don't have the time to follow the candidates that are running in other states.
  
  Whoever wins and is sent to Washington will have a huge mess to clean up. I would think most Republicans would continue the Wall, and wait in Mexico.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  John James is a very intriguing, interesting and not 100% run of the mill candidate. That's refreshing. I like that he has a diverse background and doesn't seem to commit 100% to an all Republican ideology while saying it most closely aligns to his. That would give me some hope that he would be able to bridge the gap and incorporate other perspectives. I hope that he does not get sucked into the culture wars. He seems to be a rare sort of candidate for sure.
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  gmwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Sharlee, both Biden & Harris are latter day Forrest Gumps. Saying that they are dense are flattering them. They are beyond dense & into ................
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Address the problems I have mentioned in my OP. We are two years into Bidens administration.
  
  The cost
  The drugs
  The 100,000 drug deaths,
  The burden on our communities
  And most of all a VP that o[enly has put out another invitation offering citizenship.
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  Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Open Borders.
  
  The Global Compact on Migration.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZtOtSR_3f8
  
  Safe, orderly and regular migration.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4iMxb5_1_M
  
  No limits, no deportation.
  
  Full social benefits for all.
  
  That is the Biden policy.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  What policy? What policy has been put into place? When was the last time we had major immigration reform enacted in the United States?? The '80s?
  
  Let me refer to the Cato institute because I'm really finding interest in them lately.
  
  "Overall, immigrants are less likely to consume welfare benefits and, when they do, they generally consume a lower dollar value of benefits than native‐born Americans. Immigrants who meet the eligibility thresholds of age for the entitlement programs or poverty for the means‐tested welfare programs generally have lower use rates and consume a lower dollar value relative to native‐born Americans. The per capita cost of providing welfare to immigrants is substantially less than the per capita cost of providing welfare to native‐born Americans."
  
  https://www.cato.org/immigration-resear … es-benefit
  
  Generally I just think this correlates to racism in our country. We don't want to see more Brown people entering. They have been labeled previously as criminals and rapists and that sort of fear mongering has taken hold.
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  Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  The entirety of the post (which I did not quote) is meant for...expression of opinion?
  
  That you think people who oppose Open Borders are racist, and that Americans are pigs compared to immigrants?
  
  What I typed was fact.
  
  I wasn't expressing any personal opinion on it.
  
  Before arguing the matter of Open Borders and why we have them now, people should bone up on the Global Compact on Migration and learn about the array of efforts by the UN and others to facilitate the flow of immigrants into America.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  "That you think people who oppose Open Borders are racist, and that Americans are pigs compared to immigrants?"
  
  Whoa whoever said anything about pigs??
  You may come from a far more liberal State than I but I am surrounded by expressions of racism and hatred. Please, come visit, spend more time in backwoods hillbilly locale's. There is no welcoming of immigrants in my area. Yes, they are seen as rapists and criminals as Mr Trump portrayed them. I come from an area that is still deeply entrenched in white nationalism and in fact the largest enclave of KKK still exist just a few towns over. Forgive me if I do not have the liberal notions of where you come from. Those do not exist in abundance here. Your "fact" is based on where you have been raised and where you come from. It is quite different in other places. Racism and hatred is alive and well.
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  Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  You are saying racism is alive and well in the backwaters of our smaller states?
  
  No.
  
  I don't believe it.
  
  Racism is alive and well everywhere, in some places more extreme than others.
  
  European and American elites have replaced racism, to a large degree, with classism.
  
  Like Biden said, he likes Obama because he is clean and articulate, Biden today fills positions based on sex and race, but he's as racist as they come. Funny what corruption and desire for power will do to one's principles.
  
  The world is full of racists, run by them today, more so than anytime in our lives.
  
  China, Japan very xenophobic.
  
  South Africa has shifted from racism by the ruling minority to racism of the ruling majority. Not a good place to be a white farmer these days.
  
  All that said, it has nothing to do with open borders and the Compact on Migration.
  
  Open border efforts only apply to North America and Europe.
  
  You won't see that apply to China, Japan, or anywhere else.
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Again turn to Trump. Faye, not sure it's fair to talk about the people being hateful in your own state. Is it fair to compartmentalize all into one deplorable basket? I think your comment clearly represents how liberals feel in regarding Trump, and the statement he made about "and some are rapist, and murderers"
  
  Unfortunately, this is true. Every day border agents arrest migrants that are wanted for crimes.
  https://nypost.com/2022/08/13/border-pa … offenders/
  https://www.heritage.org/life/commentar … -raped-her
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  What you offered were pure facts. It is very evident when cornered just assume a segment of our society is racist.
  
  My God Ken this kind of mindset is getting harder and harder to take..
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I know, those of us who won't just get in our box and stay in it are awful ornery. And I don't think that there is anyone here who can deny that a segment oir population is certainly racist. I see it and hear it day in and day out.
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  Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Racism exists in all races in all parts of the world.
  
  It is also totally irrelevant to the discussion of Open Borders.
  
  Its about what is beneficial to the nation that is accepting in millions of immigrants a year, how the social supports, how the safety of society is effected.
  
  Myself, I am fine with it, I think it will be America's salvation. These millions of people will not care to hear about Black vs. White, they will not support the ludicrous family destroying policies of the Progressive Left.
  
  In short order, the majority of the Hispanic population, for lack of better choice, will be voting Republican. Which is quite the opposite of what the Democrats and the Progressive left had expected.
  
  With examples of what the privileged Progressive elites did in Martha's Vinyard as a prime example of what the Obama, Oprah, and other elites living there really think about migrants.
  
  When DeSantis flew 50 Venezuelans there, in less than 48 hours the people of Martha's Vinyard demanded they be removed and had them removed.
  
  That is the TRUE face of our Progressive Leadership right there. They are in favor of Open Borders, just better keep every single one of those migrants out of their neighborhoods.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Can I ask what your group is doing to come together and put forward some sort of immigration reform? What are their plans or ideas? My Republican Senators have no platform on immigration other than it's all President biden's fault. We do here quite a bit about the evils of books, teachers, doctors. The focus is more on The unborn, transgender babies and now whispers of banning gay marriage. Where are the solutions?
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Faye, Did you address Ken's facts or at best dispute them? You diverted quickly.
  
  I did not put anyone in a box... In your comment to Ken, you appeared to put the citizens of your entire town in a box.
  
  "You may come from a far more liberal State than I but I am surrounded by expressions of racism and hatred. Please, come visit, spend more time in backwoods hillbilly locale's. There is no welcoming of immigrants in my area. Yes, they are seen as rapists and criminals as Mr Trump portrayed them. "
  
  I read this as you pretty much feel you are surrounded by racisum and hate, due to backwoods hillbilly. You claimed there is no welcoming of migrants. You even claimed that migrants are seen as rapists and criminals. Do all the citizens in your town share those horrendous ideologies?
  
  You certainly had no problem putting them in a box.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Sharlee, I am in no way implying the residents of my town and nearby towns are completely racist but we have our fair share and open, vocal expressions of racism. That's just an honest assessment like it or not. We have a little town here named Harrison that is almost always name the most racist town in America. The KKK is still there. It is what it is. Old ideas and traditions hang on for dear life in places like this.
  
  In terms of Ken, this was his comment:
  
  "That you think people who oppose Open Borders are racist, and that Americans are pigs compared to immigrants?"
  
  What an assumption!. Some Folks on this forum read into words so very much and concoct their own reality from it. Yes, certainly some people who oppose immigration are certainly racist. Never did I say all. And the comment about Americans being pigs well where the heck did that even come from??? A little over the top. The sweeping generalizations that are made here and the tendency for oversimplification of everything are getting exhausting. Very few ever want to let go of their tribalism to consider anything outside of their party line. It's like people here have identified who is liberal and who is conservative and you are treated as such. There isn't enough of a real consideration of the multitude of factors around any situation. Sides are taken and that's it. Then it just amounts to bickering and people twisting themselves into pretzels to defend their tribe.
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Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago
"The $20.4 billion the Biden Border Crisis has heaped onto the backs of American taxpayers is still staggering," Dan Stein, president of FAIR, said in a statement. "$20.4 billion could address some very important needs of the American public, instead of covering the costs of the surge of illegal migration triggered by this administration’s policies."

FAIR reveals what $20.4 billion could be spent on, instead:

* Provide every homeless veteran in the U.S. $50K a year for the next 10 years.

* Hire 330,000 more teachers.

* Fund and expand the National School Lunch Program.

* Provide Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program benefits to more than 7 million extra families.

* Provide every family earning less than $50K a year a $410 grocery voucher.

* Construct, (finish,) the entire southern border wall.

LOOK: Lefters are not on board with FAIR!

"... which calls for stricter border controls as part of a range of broader immigration reforms."
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Sharlee01posted 2 years ago
Got-Aways --- picture worth a thousand words.
Vidio https://www.foxnews.com/category/us/imm … immigrants

Video captures migrants in camo scaling Arizona wall after Harris says border secure

https://www.borderreport.com/regions/ar … get-aways/

Does this concern you?
If our border is closed, why do we have people climbing over a wall in Camo?
Are they seeking asylum?
Are they drug smugglers?
Who the hell are they, and do we need them just walking in?
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Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago
Douglas, Arizona, Border Report:

"Men in camouflage carrying backpacks walk across the desert. Sometimes they get on all fours so border agents can’t see them. Hidden cameras catch their illegal entry into the United States, nonetheless.

A suspected drug courier crosses the U.S. border from Mexico
in Southeast …

Later, one of the migrants can be seen walking with a large, taped square plastic bag presumably laden with marijuana and other drugs. A fully staffed U.S. Border Patrol would normally rush to the scene, apprehend the group and confiscate the drugs.

But, Cochise County Sheriff Mark J. Dannels says border agents are so tied up at processing centers that many such groups are getting away, their drugs reaching the streets of America’s heartland."

From
https://www.borderreport.com/regions/ar … get-aways/
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Stephen Tomkinsonposted 2 years ago
Years ago, Christopher Priest wrote a book titled "Fugue for a Darkening Island" ( called simply "Darkening Island" by its US publisher). In it, he envisages Britain being overrun by illegal immigrants and the civil war that breaks out as unscrupulous politicians try to take advantage of a social phenomenon.
It doesn't matter what steps the US takes, immigrants will keep coming - pushed by poverty, pulled by hope. Some immigrants will be criminals, statistically, it would be amazing if they weren't; but the big players in the drug trade are not sneaking across the border.
In the US, Europe, and the richer countries of Asia we are going to have to get used to this migration and work out how to deal with it. Stopping it is not an option because it's as inevitable as the movement west of Germanic tribes across Europe and, indeed, the movement west of the European Americans.
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Sharlee01posted 2 years ago

ARE YOU AWARE OF THIS CURRENT PROBLEM?

DO YOU BELIEVE OUR BORDERS ARE CLOSED?

Unaccompanied children the numbers are not being reported, and are absolutely shocking.
https://www.acf.hhs.gov/orr/grant-fundi … sors-state

TOTAL NUMBER OF UC RELEASED TO SPONSORS IN FY21
(OCT. 2020 — SEPT. 2021)* 107,686

TOTAL NUMBER OF UC RELEASED TO SPONSORS IN FY22
(OCT. 2021 — JUL. 2022) 107,742

Are you aware of this problem? Does it concern you?

Please check the link to see if the number of children has been settled in your state. And then please note the number of children that presented at our border in prior years.

Facts are facts, and it is evident that we have open borders, on most days we are seeing many thousands of illegal migrants walking in versus the hundreds we had in the past.

Edit ages of unaccompanied children
0-12 represent 11%
13-14 represent 11%
15-16 represent 39%
17 represent 38%
Source https://www.acf.hhs.gov/orr/about/ucs/facts-and-data
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  President Biden’s immigration policies and goals are largely the same as those of Mr. Trump.
  
  https://www.cato.org/blog/bidens-border … en-borders
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I note you have no interest in answering my questions, only quickly diverting to Trump. In my view, the numbers at our borders speak very loudly. You seem unconcerned about the vast number of unaccompanied children that Joe has on his hand, close to 220,000 children need to be cared for. Just not interested in who did what. All I see is the horrendous problems that Obama or Trump did not experience, and the Biden administration claiming the borders are closed, and the problems are being handled.
  
  From day one, Biden has worked on getting rid of article 42 and is waiting in Mexico. This certainly could have put out an invitation --- a weak president doing away with a strong president's policies. This is my view of why we have such an influx of migrants. Hopefully, you see that I have the right to my thoughts. I have no problem with your thoughts, I just do not agree. Biden was forced by law to keep some of Trump's policies, but the optics of trying to do away with Trump's policies IMP worked as an open invitation to come on in...
  
  Trump was building a wall and used wait in Mexico to have asylum seekers wait in Mexico. Need I mention Biden's fight to lift article 42? Even as we had an ongoing pandemic. Trump was also building a border wall, that Biden stopped construction on. Although now reported some construction has resumed in areas to fix gaps where smugglers are using to walk in. He fought to end this Trump policy wait in Mexico that seems to be detouring the numbers of immigrants showing up at our border while Trump was president. In my view, now the many that waited plus the hundreds of thousands heard Joe's invitation, and are walking across an open border.
  
  Source
  June 1, 2021 https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/01/politics … index.html
  
  December 14, 2021 -- https://rollcall.com/2021/12/14/biden-a … xico-case/
  
  Biden fought and finally won --- Biden after a legal battle, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled on June 30, 2022, in Biden v. Texas, that the Biden administration had the authority to end the policy.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I welcome your thoughts. In no way am I making personal judgments on those opinions and what you stand for. That being said, yes I do see things somewhat differently.
  
  Again I will refer to Cato, even though originally launched by Charles Koch, I find myself appreciating their take on many issues and they seem to remain faithful to their libertarian roots.
  
  "The flow of illegal immigrants across the southern border has markedly risen over the last several years. In FY2021, Border Patrol had 1,662,167 encounters with illegal immigrants and other border crossers. So far in FY2022, which ends on September 30th, Border Patrol has had almost the same number of encounters. This year will set a new record. From a low number of encounters in April 2020 due in large part to the pandemic, encounters have increased steadily and began to rise even faster after President Biden took office.
  
  Many commentators, pundits, and politicians are blaming President Biden’s immigration policies for the rapid increase in border crossers. It’s easy to see why: In January 2021, Border Patrol had 75,312 encounters with border crossers. By March, the number more than doubled to 168,195 and have hovered between about that over 224,000 per month. Changes in asylum policy and other immigration policies, even according to statements by some of the migrants, can explain part of the increase. Those factors play a role, but the biggest explanation for the increase in illegal immigration is the attraction of the number of near‐record number of job openings in the United States.. The wage premium combined with the hottest labor market in the history of the private job openings dataset likely explain why so many illegal immigrants are trying to come now.
  The economic gains from working in the United States largely explain why immigrants want to come in the first place and the scarcity of visas explains why so many come illegally. There simply are not enough temporary work visas available in enough sectors of the U.S. economy for legal migrant workers to meet the demand of the U.S. labor market, so illegal migrant workers meet it."
  
  This just sits right with me. Makes sense to me. It seems as though Congress could easily come together to address these issues but apparently they would rather use immigrants as political pinatas.
  
  https://www.cato.org/blog/us-labor-dema … mmigration
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  wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  If it was primarily because of the job market we should not have seen much increase in the early months of Biden's presidency.
  
  But we did. His promise to make all citizens plus his changes to policy (such as spreading them all over the country rather than them making their own way) started the flood and the job situation only exacerbated it. The root cause is not the availability of jobs, but Biden's promises and policy changes. If we were still building a wall, simply returning all caught to Mexico, making a serious attempt at controlling the border, etc. we would not see the numbers we do.
  
  As for pinatas, seems to me that the people crossing illegally are just as much to blame as congress. While it is absolutely true that congress has failed, and continues to fail miserably, in even trying to address the problem, the pinata action started with the Dreamers when a President suddenly gave hope of citizenship to a huge number of illegals. That action undoubtedly stimulated the desire to cross and gave hope for future amnesty for all, and Biden reinforced that concept in spades.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  You don't feel like the group of individuals who were flown to Martha's vineyard by Governor DeSantis were used as political pinatas? Really? They weren't illegals. They were people who came in through the process in place for seeking asylum. Sort of very cruel by the man to send them to Massachusetts when they will be expected to appear again in Texas for their scheduled hearings. But hey anything to score some cheap political points.
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  GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Pres. Biden's transporting of illegal alien asylum seekers, prior to the governors doing it, is the same action. Same asylum review and release process and same unannounced transporting to smaller communities nationwide. Do you see him as a cruel man using those folks as political pawns?
  
  What is the difference in their actions?
  
  GA
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I believe this is a cynical capitalization on the situation of vulnerable human beings for political purposes, using them as pawns in the service of unbridled ambitions to run for national office. In my view, it's an appalling move that serves no other purpose than Mr. DeSantis’ personal agenda to make a name for himself on the national political stage.
  It is red meat to the base. These are nothing more than "own the libs" moments. Looks a lot like the reverse freedom rides. Yes we need some immigration fixes but these stunts are unproductive and cruel.
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  wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Am I correct in thinking that you find Biden's flights of illegals, under cover of darkness so no one would see, as NOT playing politics with people? At least these states are wide open about doing it, wanting it known, while Biden tried to hide it.
  
  There is exactly zero doubt that Biden tried to make political hay off of illegal aliens with his moves.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Did President Biden drop these people without any warning or notice? Just by complete surprise they were sent to random areas of the country that were totally unprepared to receive them? I think not. I don't have any problem with immigrants being sent throughout the entire country so that everyone can share in the responsibility but governor's Abbott and DeSantis have sent these folks to places that were totally unaware that they were coming and left scrambling to put something in place for their care. All for a political stunt, again to "own the libs" it looks cruel and ridiculous
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Why would you feel it cruel in sending these adults where they have agreed to go? It would seem like you don't realize New York, Maryland, and Boston, Chicago, have jobs that migrants can fill. More so than the border states due to the sheer numbers of migrants that settle there until residing where to head out into the US and file their claims. Do you feel any of these states?
  
  What makes you feel border states have more to offer migrants? These cities offer more opportunities than the overrun border states. I have not witnessed any interviews with any of these migrants saying they were forced or unhappy with the choice they made.
  
  These migrants need to be dispersed fairly in my view. And sent to the areas where they can fins work.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  These people were lied to.
  A number of migrants told NPR their flight originated in San Antonio, and that they were being transported to Boston, not Martha's vineyard of all places. The migrants said a woman they identified as “Perla” approached them outside the shelter and lured them into boarding the plane, saying they would be flown to Boston where they could get expedited work papers. She provided them with food. The migrants said Perla was still trying to recruit more passengers just hours before their flight. “They were told they were going to be met here with jobs and housing. Some were told that they were going to different cities all over the country. At least one individual thought they were going to New York and some thought there were going to immigration appointments,”
  
  Yes have them dispersed throughout the country but do not surprise cities. Have some coordination. It only makes sense if you really care about the humans involved.
  
  https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-p … were-lied/
  
  https://www.npr.org/2022/09/15/11231097 … s-vineyard
  
  https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politi … 94561.html
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  GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I can see you believe that, but what about Texas and Arizona, same description? What difference is there in the actual actions?
  
  As a first thought, why is this a problem for the Democrats, their administration has been doing it, without complaint, (Dem)? Why is it a problem when the states do it?
  
  GA
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think it's a problem for immigrants to be dispersed throughout the country. Just coordinate the effort, let the locality know what's coming so they're prepared. Also let the federal money follow. It's really very simple. It doesn't require splashy press conferences at all. If Governor DeSantis or Abbott wants to send immigrants to Fayetteville Arkansas then contact the mayor and let them know these folks are coming. It seems quite easy. I'm quite welcoming of anyone who wants to try their luck here in Fayetteville. But if Texas or Florida is sending their folks that they're getting paid for, then I want to see their money end up here, plain and simple. Again, even if this was done under President Biden, was he sending these people under the cover of night? Enticed onto buses or planes with lies? To destinations unknown? Let's just be above board.
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  You need to explain the money that you feel states are getting due to migrants. I added a link that provides the fund's migrants are personally given. and other benefits from the fed Gov. However, not sure what money you feel the states get. Perhaps you are talking about money states received for COVID? I do know Florida is paying to transport migrants from left over COVID cash.
  https://www.nilc.org/issues/economic-su … dprograms/
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  The money comes from the omnibus appropriations Bill and this is directly from the Texas senator John Cornyn's website:
  
  "Supports border communities in Texas that absorb the costs from the surge of illegal immigration by directing $130 million to the Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA) to compensate these communities."
  
  So if they would prefer to spend their own taxpayers dollars to bus immigrants all over the country then so be it just make sure that those dollars follow them and I don't think many will have a problem.
  
  https://www.cornyn.senate.gov/content/n … eans-texas
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Supports border communities in Texas that absorb the costs from the surge of illegal immigration by directing $130 million to the Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA) to compensate these communities.
  
  I will need to have a look at what this money is allocated for. And if it is even available as of yet. This problem has been goung on for two years.
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Do you feel the border states should be the only areas the migrants must wait for their asylum trials? Is New York, DC, and Martha Vineyard, Chicago, off-limits? These people are overrunning border towns, and Biden has been transporting migrants over the country. These cities that are complaining are sanctuary cities, where many migrants strive to get jobs. The large cities can offer jobs in the hospitality industry, as well as the food industry. Many migrants look for these types of jobs. Low-paying jobs are there for those that will take them.
  
  Do you know how backed up our immigration courts are?
  
  "The immigration court backlog now tops 1.6 million cases, up from 1.1 million before the pandemic and more than double the caseload that existed in fiscal year (FY) 2018. At USCIS, the backlog has surged from 5.7 million applications at the end of FY 2019 to about 9.5 million as of February.2022" and even more have entered since Feb...
  https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article … 0February.
  
  There are I believe 60 immigration courts across the US where asylum seekers can file to have their cases heard. The migrants that are filing in border states are known to wait for two, and three times as long for a hearing.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I have no problem with immigrants coming to my state (not that they ever would) or anywhere else in the country. But don't surprise cities with them. Don't have them show up in the middle of the night as a surprise. Coordinate with that state or city. Also, have that Federal money follow. If Texas or Florida or whoever else wants to ease their burden then the money should follow the immigrants. I have seen very comprehensive and caring responses to these immigrants wherever they have landed. The people of these locations have pulled together to take care of them. I don't think the complaint is that the folks are showing up, the complaint is that cities are being completely blindsided with no coordination. How about just a heads up? Seems like a simple act of cooperation.
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  These are large cities, a 100 people should not send them into a panic. My God Faye surprise... The border is now having 4-7 thousand coming in daily as of this week. I guess New York could buck up and take a few. They are not showing up in the middle of the night in most cases. Biden is the guy that is using that tactic.
  
  OG Coordinate... please become aware of how many are just walking into the county daily, no coordination, no heads up --- just "here I am!
  
  What Federal money? What are you talking about? The money that the Federal Gov gives a migrant
  
  "Refugees and Access to Funds & Benefits in the U.S.
  A refugee is “a person who is unable to return his or her country of origin because of a well-founded fear of persecution based on race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or membership in a particular social group.” A refugee legally resides in the country of resettlement and is eligible for federally funded cash assistance for up to 8 months. Refugees are resettled in the United States by the federal government and are afforded specific refugee assistance to help them rebuild their lives in America. This federal funding is limited in both duration and amount. It
  is important to note that most refugees arrive with very little in terms of possessions, beside a few bags of luggage, and if they are lucky, all of their family members.
  
  Reception & Placement
  All refugees arriving in the United States will receive $900 when they first arrive. This is a one time only provision of initial resettlement money, which they can spend on whatever they wish(e.g. security deposits for an apartment, bus fare, winter coats, food, etc.). The spending of this money is often guided by advice from resettlement case managers who assist the families in getting resettled quickly and economically. " AND lot's more...
  
  Are you talking about this money? The money that come's out of our Taxes? https://www.ccmaine.org/docs/Refugee%20 … toFund.pdf
  
  I have had enough boohooing My God I feel so sorry for any of the border towns that have people living in their streets due to the enormous influx. These liberal cities claim to be sanctuary cities, maybe they should have a go at it. And you wonder why some find the liberal BS rediculous --- a small problem comes their way, and they cry, melt, and ask for Federal help... Yuck
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Cities deserve the federal money that follows these immigrants. If Texas and Florida want to send them on private planes to different cities then they should not get to keep the money they've been allotted by the federal government. That just makes sense. I don't think any of these cities have protested having these immigrants. It's the way in which it's done. Yes disperse them throughout the country. I don't think anyone has a problem with that just don't do it in an underhanded, uncoordinated way to make a media splash.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I'm going to go out on a limb without finding research to back this up (but I'll bet the farm that I can) Migrants are completely unfamiliar with the U.S. immigration system, making it unlikely that deterrence efforts will stop individuals from migrating north.
  They are being pushed out of their countries due to certain factors and being pulled toward ours for others. These are the factors are guiding their way, not a president or any specific law. If my town has dried up and my family is starving of course I'm going to be on the move.
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  wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I would agree that the vast majority of illegals are completely unfamiliar with our immigration system. They often (far too often) think they know, because they have been advised they can claim asylum. That is patently false as very few actually fit the role of asylum seekers; most are simply wanting to leave poverty behind.
  
  Yes, if my town "dried up" I would leave as well. First would be to try again somewhere else in my country, then to try in each and every country I passed through. But these people think of the US as the land of milk and honey, and are being told they can have it, too. By our president among others.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I think it's more the fact that coyotes are telling them they can easily relocate to America.
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I have a home in Mexico I live there many months each year, the people are hard-working, intelligent, and certainly smart enough to know what they face. I don't think it is fair to assume that people coming from many other countries are not intelligent enough to know what they will face. Most probably come to work, and will work.
  
  I am out of here, a bit too much liberal philosophy for me to keep a civil tongue. Just can't buy your mindset on this one Faye.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure it's fair to assume that everyone fleeing Mexico or mainly Central America understands the ins and outs of our immigration system. These aren't people who congregate in wealthy resort towns but people who live in corrupt, gang-infested towns. On top of that they've been hit by climate change that has rendered their farms inoperable due to alternating flood and drought. These are literally people fleeing for their lives.
  
  https://www.nrc.no/shorthand/fr/fleeing … index.html
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I have to presume some pretty substantial circumstances motivate people to pick up and leave their homes. I think of my own situation and what would make me pack what I could to traverse the landscape to find a better life. We know that there are some pretty desperate situations through South america, Central America and many cities in Mexico.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  This isn't liberal philosophy at all. It's just common sense that people will pick up and move when they have to, when they've been forced out of their homes for various reasons. I don't think we would be any different. If your area were suddenly invaded by political corruption, gang violence, a lack of jobs, food and education then you would flee also. It's pretty simple.
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Once again you are diverting. I gave an opinion on the Mexican people.in response to Your comment "I think it's more the fact that coyotes are telling them they can easily relocate to America." You assume... And your assumption appears to say that these people are not too intelligent, and might believe anything they are told by Coyotes.
  
  Just adding my thought and experience about the Mexican people. Your response ignores the context of my comment. This to me, (my opinion) is a characteristic of liberals. They frequently go off subject and divert.
  
  I find it presumptuous of you to lump all that decide to make their way to the US as being pushed from their homes and all the rest. I could resume many criminals running from law enforcement, individuals sent by cartels to set up shop, or maybe just individuals that want to make money working in the US. Actually, we have little way of knowing one's motives that are present at the border. This to me is once again a very obvious liberal trait.
  
  I want migrants to come in legally, I want a cap on how many we accept, yearly. I want to know who is coming to the US.
  
  Just funny that way.
  
  In my opinion, all of your comments on this thread are in regard to your personal feeling about how immigrants are being infiltrated into the US.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I made absolutely no assumption about anyone's intelligence. My only point is that there are many factors involved in immigration. Many factors that push people out of their country and many factors that pull them toward ours. I don't know we think it's as simple as hanging the blame on one person, factor or reason. I do know that a lot of folks conjure up fear over these people. Labeling them as rapists and criminals. Politicians would rather continue to use immigration in a political manner than coming together and negotiating immigration reform. What does that say about the intelligence of our politicians, our people who don't demand more?
  Also I have to say that some posters on here make so many assumptions about others and read into the words that are written. They're always seems to be such a struggle to put all people into either the liberal box or the conservative box and some of us just aren't going to have it.
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  "I made absolutely no assumption about anyone's intelligence. "
  "I think it's more the fact that, "I think it's more the fact that coyotes are telling them they can easily relocate to America"
  
  I feel this implies a person could be told anything, and the person would
  believe it. Your words, " I think" implies you are sharing your opinion. You have a perfect right to think that.
  
  And once again you assume you know something that would be hard to know... " I do know that a lot of folks conjure up fear over these people."
  
  In regard to politians and immigration.
  
  I felt both Obama and Trump were solving some of the problems that were occurring
  
  Obama --- took steps to decoupage illegal border crossings by turning away most that approached the border. He saw the problem of our border being overrun, and families needing shelter, which turned into a huge problem. He discouraged people from making the trip and encouraged coming in using our laws.
  
  "During the first years of Obama’s presidency, the number of immigrants deported from the U.S. increased each year, peaking at 409,849 total deportations in fiscal 2012. At the time, pro-immigrant groups nicknamed Obama the “deporter-in-chief".
  
  Trump had much the same problems, and came also turned away more than he let in, he eventually made an agreement with Mexico to let migrants remain in Mexico. He also had ICE remove undocumented migrants, And he also used article 42 to refuse people at the border. And the wall, that is working in the areas it was built to keep people from walking in.
  
  All these initiatives helped send a clear message as did Obama's --- come to America, but uses our laws to do so. There were no dog whistle invitations to come on down, our borders are wide open.
  
  Yes, I am very much guilty of pointing out my opinion on ideologies that lean one way or the other.
  
  I have made my point, and I will keep those views to myself. Funny I have always been pleased when someone noted I lean conservative. I guess I am sort of proud to belong to that group.
  
  I think being conservative I find it hard to consider those who lean lefts mindsets. I see your point, and will certainly no longer assume anything in regard to your ideologies.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think Mr Trump or Mr Obama were solving any problems with immigration. Neither past any immigration reform. Nothing lasting nor significant happened under either.
  The last significant immigration bill was passed when Ronald Reagan was President and both houses of Congress were held by Democrats.
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I did not claim or imply either passed any legislation on immigration. Just that they noted the problem, and worked to try to solve the problems. Both were willing to acknowledge problems and try to solve problems without congress, due to Congressional gridlock. I appreciate both abilities to solve problems.
  
  Hopefully, when we achieve a new majority in Congress we will see some solutions. Oh, how I miss the Democrat of old...
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you think so many are leaving their countries and crossing dangerous terrain to make their way to our borders? It's really a simple as President Biden has sent them some subliminal message to make the trip? Just as simple as that? No other factors involved, just a straight line from a to b?
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  Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  UN and other international organizations work to encourage foreigners to go to America and cross the border.
  
  https://www.unhcr.org/en-us/us-resettle … tners.html
  
  https://rcusa.org/
  
  https://www.unidosus.org/
  
  https://www.immigrationadvocates.org/
  
  The list is rather endless, this gives a good sample, there are a LOT of non-profits, UN, Federal, Religious organizations and agencies working to encourage and aid immigration to America.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I don't find that any of these examples are encouraging immigrants to leave their countries. I find all of these examples to be helping to aid immigrants once they arrive here.
  
  "RCUSA promotes efforts to protect and welcome refugees, asylees, asylum-seekers, and other forcibly displaced populations."
  
  "The Immigration Advocates Network (IAN), a program of Pro Bono Net, is dedicated to expanding access to immigration legal resources and information through collaboration and technology. IAN was created in 2007 by leading immigrants' rights organizations, to increase access to justice for low-income immigrants and strengthen the capacity of organizations serving them. We create our own tools, build platforms for others, and work with partners to harness the power of technology and collective action to better support immigrants and their advocates.'
  
  To suggest that agencies are encouraging migration I think is a little misleading
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  Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  What work is being done outside the US to facilitate these migrations, who funds their efforts, is not going to be advertised on their websites.
  
  As I have noted in the past, learn all you can about the Global Compact on Migration, UN efforts to support these migrations, maybe you will find some answers.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOmRwv1JYO8
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeW-8sbgfu0
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRE-HDjPIZ8
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Well Ken I guess the real question would be, how can we convince these people want to stay in their corrupt, crime ridden, gang infested countries that climate change has rendered their land less fertile? What can we as Americans, God fearing good Christians do to keep them in that situation? Shame on the UN for offering any type of humanitarian concern or aid.
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  Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I actually am glad they are coming.
  I realize that by 2024 the numbers will be over 3 million a year.
  They are currently averaging well over 2 million a year.
  These individuals will care NOTHING about certain issues that are so divisive in the country today.
  As is the case for most people who are hard working and who have experienced the hardships of socialism and tyranny and corrupt military/police. They arent likely to support efforts to allow those things to prosper here in America.
  
  As I have said, the Hispanic population will soon be the majority in America, and they will begin to move the nation in a new direction, one far different then where Progressives are trying to take it today.
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I think if one really knew the number of people waiting for asylum they would understand the increasing problems we face. I would think more Americans would be concerned with the direction America is moving. You hit the nail on the head.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think anything about America has changed. I mean literally we haven't had any sort of immigration reform or changes for decades. I do think things have changed dramatically in certain South American countries, Central America and areas of Mexico. When folks are happy with the environment in which they live, they don't tend to migrate in these sort of numbers. You can build an electrified border, it's not going to change what is pushing these people out of their countries.
  
  Did the open border policies of the early 1900s help or hinder our country?
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  wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps if we were in the 1900s, when my g'g'grandparents simply stopped walking and homesteaded in a valley empty of people...
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  GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I think the question is how can we secure our borders so that our immigration process can work as intended. Our system was intended to deal with immigrants as individuals coming to the door, not hordes climbing through the windows.
  
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  DrMark1961posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Your imagery made me wonder how the good folks of Marthas Vineyard are going to react when the first migrant climbs through one of their windows. Will it be San Franciscos "take what you need" or Texas´ "get our or I will shoot"?
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  GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  We will find out after 5 or 6 more buses. The Democrats are aiming for their foot on this one. Their villainization of the border-state governors, (and DeSantis), is going to backfire when the bus-that-breaks-the-camel's-back bus causes the welcoming arms of Martha's Vineyard-type communities to turn to screams to bar the door. It will be hard for them to justify—to moderates, on the campaign trail.
  
  GA
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Please consider many don't agree with closed borders, and hope to just have no borders. We are "transitioning".
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  GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not convinced that "many" is a majority. I think it's a fringe comparable to the Republicans' fringe of Proud Boy-types. Both are significant, but they are not predominate.
  
  Regarding the borders, I am deep Red relative to wanting the process to start with controlled access to our nation's doors. There is also a lot of Blue in my empathy for the folks coming here, I would come too, but it wouldn't be unfair to ask me to follow the rules.
  
  Our "rules" are currently promoting this problem, not controlling it. Consider the part about "being on our 'soil.' The intentions of that process seem clearly reasoned, but the application of those intentions has been stretched to making "being on our soil" a free pass.
  
  Put up the walls, (metaphorically), around the doors. Keep those doors open and welcoming, but keep them as the first step—get in line. Non-door entries go to the back of the line.
  
  As for transitioning, you nailed that one. Hopefully, those fringes are outside the guardrails of that transition. Somethings going to change, for sure.
  
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I would have been wiser to use the word some, versus many. I think it would be a small minority that would go for open borders.
  
  I think we pretty much agree on all you shared.
  
  I would think with our demographic changing, in my view quickly, we will see many sociatal changes.
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  wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  "Non-door entries go to the back of the line."
  
  This may be sound. Anyone found on American soil illegally, whether screaming for amnesty, asylum or anything else, to the back of the line. You will not be considered for immigration until everyone ahead of you is. And let the line reset every day that you remain on our soil.
  
  (Personally, I would exempt Dreamers, but only if they are the ONLY ones to be treated so.)
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  GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, the 'thru the door' requirement seems logical, but it does have complicating 'what-ifs' that are hard to defend.
  
  The easy case is the hundreds storming the border claiming asylum, with only their word they are in danger if not admitted.
  
  The hard case is the single person, or family, that crosses the border with danger in pursuit. When it is seen they are in danger how do we adjust that 'door only' policy for them? We can't force them to wait on the 'other side', because we can see they are in near-immediate mortal danger. But they are still multiple illegal border crashers, so what to do?
  
  I still say go with the 'thru the door idea and let the people doing the processing determine if there is an 'immediacy' problem. It wouldn't be foolproof or incorruptible but it would at least make the problems more manageable. Dealing with a few is easier than dealing with tens of thousands.
  
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  wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I think it would be rare indeed for a family to be in "immediate danger" in Mexico...unless they had angered the drug cartels there. If they came through Mexico from a third country it would be highly doubtful they are in immediate danger.
  
  One of the problems is that so many thousands have claimed asylum by lying about it. The many have caused trouble for the few in this case, rather than the other way around.
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  Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I'm realistic, more and more are going to keep coming.
  
  The Global Compact on Migration is a reality for the West.
  
  What we should do as a nation:
  
  Control the inflow, so that all who come in are treated for disease, parasites, and can get needed medical treatment.
  
  Complete the Wall in certain areas to deter criminal activity and coyote crossovers while improving the ability to monitor and patrol the areas where there is no physical barrier.
  
  It doesn't seem the Federal government under Biden is planning on enforcing the law and CA has made it all but illegal to do so, might as well try to help them and keep them from bringing in harmful contagions.
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  GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  That "family example would be rare. A better example to explain the intentions of the law, but probably just as rare, would be defectors or 'that family' running to an American embassy or consulate for safety.
  
  The point was about who the law was written for, and it wasn't for the masses crossing our southern border making claims of asylum.
  
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  wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  You're kidding, right? You actually do understand that providing massive help in negotiating both physical and legal barriers really does encourage people to "migrate" (I assume that means to cross our borders illegally)? You really do understand that giving a helping hand to anyone, to do anything that they think will better themselves, encourages them to try? Whether it is to get an education, to squash a drug habit, to learn a new skill, to learn to drive a car, or to live in the US, help is always intended, and does, encourage the activity in those that want better?
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Yes God forbid anyone should get a helping hand.
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  gmwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  America don't have any resources to help these illegals. These illegals are taxing the economy. What part of that don't you understand? These illegals are also unskilled. We have enough unskilled people who are draining the economy. Send all the illegals back-we don't want them at all! Too many people have their hands out, including some Americans. Send all unskilled illegals back to their country of origin. They are useless.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, we don't want these useless freeloaders. Send them all back! That would seem to be the Christian thing to do. Now the real question is what do you think we can do with all of our unskilled citizens here? How can we get rid of them too?
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  DrMark1961posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  It is not even necessary that the agencies encourage migration. All they do is aid people in getting there.
  
  Many people already want to migrate, legally or illegally, because salaries in your area (even in Arkansas!) are as much in an hour as most people make here in a day. It is impossible for people believe in the cost of living differences becuase we see advertisements all the time for the low costs of cars, iPhones, and so much more. (Where I live the govenment taxes cars at about 50%. This would be like you going in to buy a $20,000 car for $40,000. An iPhone here costs about a years salary for a minimum wage employee. There are many more examples.)
  
  People here do not see advertisements for the cost of rent, groceries, the cost of education, etc.
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  GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I am firmly on the conservatives' side regarding our open border crisis. So, I agree with your OP.
  
  But, I don't agree with your presentation. Your choice of images is intentionally emotionally misleading. I criticize the Left for doing this, so a Rightie has to at least get a nudge.
  
  CBP's Unaccompanied Minor Children policy isn't primarily those toddlers of your image, it is minors under the age of 18. To be fair, your lead image should be something like these:
  
  Border Patrol rescues 71 unaccompanied children smuggled across border into Arizona
  
  Border Crossings by Migrant Children to Rise Sharply, U.S. Estimates Show
  
  Sorry to pick on your image, but both sides use 'the children' as unassailable motives, when in my opinion such use demands assailing because it is almost always an intentional spin. If a point needs spin to stand, then it isn't strong enough to support itself.
  
  You make a good point. It can stand on its merits.
  
  As a note, I have seen CBP agent blurbs that a lot of those '17-year-old minors' look more like mid-20-year-olds. But with no ID they have to take the 'minor's' word for how old they are.
  
  GA
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  IslandBitesposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  The funny thing is the photo is from 2019. The irony... Oh my!
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  GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  They were coming in 2019 also, and even more are coming now, so you get to save some of that irony for later.
  
  GA
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  IslandBitesposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Not the point. But of course, it's you. I get it, it is hard to give at least a nudge, huh.
  
  But thank you, I'll save some.
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  GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Was your point the 2019 Trump connection? If so, I saw that but took the direction of addressing the situation instead of the blame.
  
  If your point was something else, you'll have to tell me, we 'guys' aren't very intuitive.
  
  GA
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Well if it was, I also added a chart in my open comment. maybe some could have a look and see the stats under Obama and Trump... and then compare...
  
  Seems very obvious when our historic border crossing occurred.
  
  I am intuitive, and I sense --- not going there, don't care to get banned due to a very simple bait. Cough Cough
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  "Seems very obvious when our historic border crossing occurred."
  
  Simply assigning the blame to whoever is in the White House at the time overlooks all the other aggravating factors though. I find it very difficult and seldom that we can draw a straight line between a and b.
  
  Presidents are often either victims or beneficiaries of circumstance they've had no direct hand in.
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I offered you the aggravating factors --- Biden's openly trying to put up a front that he was ridding the US of Trump's immigration laws. I see this as a huge problem. A loud invitation that the borders are open.
  
  Yes, I can compare Biden to two other presidents who before him kept the border under some form of control, both implemented policies, and tried to solve the problem. Biden does nothing in my view, nothing but claims the borders are closed. This in my view is a ridiculous statement. Our borders are wide open. And I blame the current president for this fact.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  We have "push" and "pull" factors in terms of immigration. Most of which are, in my opinion, not influenced by who is in the White House.
  
  What pushes people out of their country? Political, social and economic factors , including high crime rates, pervasive gang violence, extreme poverty and corruption along with dramatic climate change in the northern triangle countries. Guatemala has one of the highest food insecurity and malnutrition rates in Latin America, with nearly 1 million Guatemalans suffering severe food insecurity. I guess I'd leave too.
  
  What pulls them here? Jobs and family reunification. Also, Smugglers who profit from bringing migrants across the border, encourage already vulnerable individuals to leave their homes, pushing them by providing them with inaccurate information about the U.S. immigration system.They exaggerate the system’s navigability and the likelihood of being granted asylum. Of course for their own profit.
  
  I believe the push and pull factors are so much greater than whoever is in the White House and what immigrants may perceive their welcome to be.
  
  I'm trying to look at it from a human perspective. If I found myself in a country that has been ravaged by alternating drought and flood so that farms can't exist any longer and my family is starving, I'm going to leave. There wouldn't be any consideration of who is in power in America. If I'm surrounded by political corruption, violence and gangs, I'm going to leave. Wouldn't you?
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Too bad, you would not have been more concerned with the problem than the photo. Took more time with content than photo. Forgot some just look at photos, and run with them. My bad.
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  IslandBitesposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, I know.
  
  I perhaps should have taken more time with the photo. It was a grab and meant to draw attention to the OP
  
  Btw, I am (concern with the long-broken immigration system and the unwillingness of politicians from both sides to address it.) but not with fake outrage. Sorry. Not.
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  My outrage is not fake. I am concerned with what I see, especially due to the stats are numbers placed on children. And I have no interest in fluff --- or "fake" concern with the long-broken immigration system and the unwillingness of politicians from both sides to address it. Did you do much on that lately?
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  No problem, I perhaps should have taken more time with the photo. It was a grab and meant to draw attention to the OP. Unfortunately, it is reported that 11% of the children are in the 0-12 age group. I did not take enough time with this OP. --- Few of my threads get any comments. Yet I post current, in case anyone will take an interest.
  
  Your point was well taken, I actually did have a link that I was going to add that offers age groups of unaccompanied and the percentage of children in each age group.
  
  I will add the link to my OP.
  Edit ages of unaccompanied children
  0-12 represent 11%
  13-14 represent 11%
  15-16 represent 39%
  17 represent 38%
  
  Photo stays to bring attention to the 11%. In my view, they are the most vulnerable.
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Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago
- common sense. What is common sense?
This:
"I want migrants to come in legally, I want a cap on how many we accept, yearly. I want to know who is coming to the US."

Thanks, Sharlee01.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Why aren't you holding your elected officials responsible then? Does bussing or flying them around the country make sense? Does it solve any issue?
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  off topic
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I will be voting in Nov, it's the best way to be heard.
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  kathryn, I truly believe common sense is the best way to go. Just don't need layers and layers of social BS surrounding every fission our Government makes. This current administration has bogged down the country in all kinds of social ideologies in my opinion. Common sense needs to return, and quick.
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Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago
Illegal Immigrants are busting in!

That's the topic!
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  The money we are wasting on them, once they cross over into our country, should be used to FINISH building the border wall.
  
  That's the topic.
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  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I agree Kathryn, the wall needs to be finished. It will send a message to come legally or don't come.
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  gmwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  AGREED.
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Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years ago
Has anyone read the various studies and economists opinions on the benefits of open borders? That open borders make economic sense?

One study predicted that if borders were open everywhere world GDP would be twice of its current value.

And before a lot of tired, stereotypical assumptions are leveled at me, I'm not saying I support this view completely one way or the other. But I do support becoming well read, educated and like to consider ALL the perspectives on an issue. Step outside of the tribe once in awhile.
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tsmogposted 2 years ago
Just to toss more wood on the fire an interesting article to read (Relatively short read) is by PBS Newshour/FrontLine World. It is an interview with Wayne Cornelius of University of California San Diego (UCSD). He founded California at San Diego's Center for U.S.-Mexican Studies and founding director of UCSD's Center for Comparative Immigration Studies, established in 1999, which conducts comparative research on international migration and refugee movements. There was no publication date, yet what it revealed to me I think would still hold. And, I kinda' think is not biased.

https://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stor … elius.html

Some revealing excerpts are:

Q: The Department of Homeland Security counts the number of apprehensions, and when we talk to them, they say, "Well, we’re being successful because we’re apprehending a lot more people now." Or, "We’re not apprehending that many people; therefore, fewer people are trying to get in."

A: They don’t have any evidence of that. All they have evidence on is the people who are unlucky enough to be caught. And that’s the distinct minority.

Q: Your research is based on interviewing migrants. Is that possibly the reason why you have more information about what’s happening in terms of migration than the Border Patrol and ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) and CBP (Customs and Border Protection)?

A: Well, the migrants themselves are definitely the best source of information; they don’t have any political axes to grind. If you approach them in the right way, they’re going to give you accurate information about their individual experiences in running the gauntlet at the border. And it's the most direct and most reliable information.

Q: Until I started to do some reporting on this, I always thought that somebody came to the border in Mexico with a bunch of cash and gave it to a smuggler and said, “Take me across.” But that’s not the way it works, right?

A: No. It's more organized now, and most smugglers are actually hired before the migrant even leaves home. The referral is made through relatives living in the United States in most cases. People have used smugglers and have found that they give good service, they deliver their clients in good shape, and they are recommended to other potential clients.

And because it's the relatives in the United States that pay the bulk of the money to the smuggler, the arrangements are usually made before the migrant even leaves home. In most cases, only a small token payment is made before the migrant actually gets to the border. And the rest is cash on delivery in the United States.

Q: The Border Patrol reports, I believe, that apprehensions have gone down from 1.2 million to approximately 800,000. And, to some extent, they say, "Well, that’s probably because of our improved enforcement. We’re deterring people from coming into the United States." Is it that, or is it the economy?

A: The economy is probably a much bigger part of the explanation. If migrants don’t have jobs waiting for them in the United States, they won’t even start the journey. But what we have seen in the last year or so tracks very well with what happened at the beginning of this decade, when we also had a significant recession. Apprehensions were down 25 percent, even more than they have been recently in two consecutive fiscal years. And that had mostly to do with the contraction of the U.S. economy.

Q: So illegal immigration through our southwest border, in a sense, is a barometer of the economic well-being of the United States?

A: The economic well-being of both the United States and Mexico. Economics is fundamental; it's much more important than anything that the government does.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  "You first have to fix the legal immigration system. We’ve got to get real about the supply of visas, both guest worker visas and permanent resident visas. If people have a legal way of coming here, they’re not going to be paying thousands of dollars to people smugglers. They’re not going to be risking their lives in the deserts. They will come legally.
  
  Secondly, I would emphasize workplace enforcement over border enforcement. Stopping them at the border clearly is not working. Keeping them out of the workplace is the only way of effectively discouraging would-be migrants from attempting to come here."
  
  Seems so straightforward. If only we had a Congress that could stop their petty, partisan bickering and take some action. But that would involve them setting aside their own self-enriching agendas.
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  wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  I would take exception to the idea that if only we had a legal means for everyone to enter then there wouldn't be people being smuggled in.
  
  While true, it also means that anyone wanting in could come; something that we already have difficulty paying for and is NOT in the best interests of the US.
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Temporary migrants are generally ineligible for welfare benefits. Lawful permanent residents must wait at least five years before they are eligible for means‐tested welfare benefits. Illegal immigrants are ineligible for entitlement and means‐tested welfare programs apart from emergency medical care.
  
  Overall, immigrants are less likely to consume welfare benefits and, when they do, they generally consume a lower dollar value of benefits than native‐born Americans. Immigrants who meet the eligibility thresholds of age for the entitlement programs or poverty for the means‐tested welfare programs generally have lower use rates and consume a lower dollar value relative to native‐born Americans"
  
  In 1996, most lawfully residing immigrants were cut from the Food Stamp Program, including many immigrants who had been living and working in the U.S. for several years.
  
  https://www.cato.org/immigration-resear … es-benefit
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  Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting, but, it matters on how they are categorized.
  
  Many who claim asylum, or who fall under other categories get social benefits immediately.
  
  During the Cuban Migrant crisis in 1996, roughly 25,000 migrants were taken from Gitmo and given housing and "welfare", that was to last seven years.
  
  This is a report on the ongoing Cuban Migration between 1994-1996:
  https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GAO … 95-211.htm
  
  This is a review of support available:
  https://www.nilc.org/issues/economic-su … dprograms/
  
  Then there are also State funded programs for support IE:
  
  CAPI is a 100 percent state-funded program designed to provide monthly cash benefits to aged, blind, and disabled non-citizens who are ineligible for Supplemental Security Income/State Supplementary Payment (SSI/SSP) solely due to their immigration status.
  
  https://www.cdss.ca.gov/inforesources/c … immigrants
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  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  This is directly from one of your sources. It's really a bit of a myth that immigrants come here to use our welfare system. The truth is our native born citizens use it to a much higher degree.
  
  "However, the 1996 federal welfare and immigration laws introduced an unprecedented era of restrictionism. Prior to the enactment of these laws, lawful permanent residents of the U.S. generally were eligible for assistance in a manner similar to U.S. citizens. Once the laws were implemented, most lawfully residing immigrants were barred from receiving assistance under the major federal benefits programs for five years or longer.
  Even where eligibility for immigrants was preserved by the 1996 laws or restored by subsequent legislation, many immigrant families hesitate to enroll in critical health care, job-training, nutrition, and cash assistance programs due to fear and confusion caused by the laws’ complexity and other intimidating factors. As a result, the participation of immigrants in public benefits programs decreased sharply after passage of the 1996 laws, causing severe hardship for many low-income immigrant families who lacked the support available to other low-income families"
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  GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this
  Adding to that thought; we already have the legal system that was spoken about. We have workers' visas, and the others mentioned. Whether those processes are working or not might be a question, but we do have them in place.
  
  Even if they are being used, the problems are in the numbers. Probably, most of the asylum seekers might only qualify for a workers' visa and I bet they aren't going that route because crashing the gates is working without the long wait and process requirements. That's on them, not the U.S.
  
  Control of the border must be addressed first or the other issues won't matter.
  
  Google says that, generally, and across categories, we average around 1 - 2 million work-related visas issued each year. (there are caveats to the numbers, but they make the point)
  
  Those aren't stingy numbers. We do welcome immigrant workers. There should be no expectation that we issue unlimited numbers of visas.
  
  The quote about needing a legal path doesn't seem accurate. Also, relative to proper immigrant worker visas, maybe Congress isn't doing so bad, (they surely are relative to border control). The process might need tweaking, but it is there and being used.
  
  GA
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The Many Cost Of Illegal Immigrants - Hard To Face But Relevant

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The Many Cost Of Illegal Immigrants - Hard To Face But Relevant

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