Why are Classified Documents Found at Residences?

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   peoplepower73posted 22 months ago

   In the 60's and the 70's, I worked for defense contractors who had contracts with The National Security Agency. These projects required me to have a secret clearance with crypto access.  Before I was granted the clearance, I was investigated by DCAS (Defense Counterintelligence and Security Agency) which checked my background and character to see if I was a security risk.  It took months to get the clearance. They even checked my character references with my relatives in Italy. 
   
   We were trained on how to handle classified material.  The main standing order was the need to know.  If you did not have a verifiable, proven need to know, then you did not get access to the information you were requesting, even if you worked on a different part of the same project.
   
   Trump tried to get his daughter and son-in-law top secret clearances, but they both failed the investigation, but that did not matter to Trump, he demanded that they get the clearances and they did.
   
   As a civilian Trump moved classified documents to Mar-a-:Lago. Some of the documents were marked top secret which required a special high security facility to access them. He then refused to turn them over to the authorities when he was told to do so.  He was then investigated by the FBI and resisted for months to give those documents to the authorities.
   
   Biden and Pence also were found to have classified documents at their residences and private offices as well. They were found by their attorneys.  They are now in the process of complying with the authorities.
   
   My point in all of this is that when presidents, vice presidents, and high level government people are not investigated by any authorities to receive their clearances, they just assume the authority is given to them because of their position in government.  Therefore they are not given the training on how to handle classified documentation, Hence, the documents end up at homes and elsewhere as they are working on those programs. They needed to be trained as well as their underlings.  I have a feeling if Jarred and Ivanka were investigated, they would find classified documents at their residence as well.
   
   Here is the link to DCAS. https://www.dcsa.mil/

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      wildernessposted 22 months agoin reply to this

      Personally, I have a strong feeling that you are right - these people have not received any training at all on the proper use of classified documents.  They likely depend on their advisors/attorneys, but then decide they have the power to do as they wish regardless of what they are told.

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         peoplepower73posted 22 months agoin reply to this

         Wilderness:  Finally, we agree on something.  It just make sense to me that this is why this is happening,  At their levels, they must feel they don't have to follow the rules and probably have movers pack their documents.

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            wildernessposted 22 months agoin reply to this

            I could easily be wrong, but I highly doubt that anyone on the Hill is giving lessons or instructions to the President of the United States on how to handle paperwork. 
            
            Plus, just as you say, they are no rules applicable to them and they don't move their own stuff anyway.

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      Sharlee01posted 22 months agoin reply to this

      Pence and Biden were Senators for many years. Are you trying to say they did not know the protocol to handle classified documents?  Over the past few days, several Congressmen (Democrats) have offered that they are shocked protocol was not followed. Talking about the fact that classified documents are read in a secure room, and not allowed to just be taken out of the room.
      
      "There's a standard that we follow when it comes to members of Congress and classified information," Durbin said. "The door to my office is closed, the person who presents the document to me takes it out of a locked briefcase, hands it to me, and watches as I read it. When I finish reading it, he takes it back, puts it in the briefcase, and leaves the scene. That's how carefully we review these documents."
      Source --  https://www.newsweek.com/top-democrats- … le-1775596
      
      I think I could see your point if Biden and Pence were not Senators they would have had to live with document protocol. --- both have recently commented on  TV interviews on the importance of being vigilant in following the protocol. So, I don't buy either were not aware of the laws in regards to handling classified documents. Do they ignore the protocols? Well yeah, as we see they do.  But, is this excusable?  You claimed to work with documents you were trusted with. So, did you take them home?
      
      WASHINGTON, Sept 18 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden said in an interview aired on Sunday that his predecessor Donald Trump's handling of classified documents was "totally irresponsible" but that he is staying out of the investigation.
      https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden- … 022-09-19/
      
      Can we make excuses in regard to breaking the laws that persons with Security Clearance are sworn to follow?
      
      It would seem some are not following these protocols. Last I heard ---
      It is a fundamental legal principle in the U.S. that ignorance of the law is no defense.

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      Sharlee01posted 22 months agoin reply to this

      A bit more on the subject --   In regards to VP and Presidential training.
      
      Jan 25, 2023   John Kirby National Security Council strategic communications coordinator: 'Everybody' knows the rules on classified docs
      Kirby said the rules are clear that classified materials cannot be removed
      
      "National Security Council strategic communications coordinator John Kirby told reporters in a White House briefing on Wednesday that "everybody" knows the rules regarding the handling of classified documents, as the controversy surrounding the mishandling of classified records continues to swirl around President Biden.
      
      "John, how hard is it to walk out of a SCIF [sensitive compartmented information facility] with classified material?" Fox News’ Peter Doocy asked in the briefing Wednesday.
      
      "Everybody who goes in to a SCIF knows what the requirements are to go in and knows what the requirements are to go out," Kirby replied."
      
      "You know… you can't bring personal devices in and you certainly can't leave with material unless that material is appropriately secured," Kirby said."
      
      "And usually, what happens to someone in the chain of command if they do leave with a piece of classified material that they're not supposed to have or that is not secured?" Doocy asked.
      
      "I think if, if you do it inadvertently or you do it and you, you realize… you don't have it secured in a locked bag… you self-report," Kirby answered.
      
      "Which is exactly what the president did, self-reported," he added.
      "But you self-report and you make sure that you get the material back secured where it belongs and that you're transparent about it," Kirby said.
      https://www.foxnews.com/politics/john-k … ified-docs
      
      At this point why shed light on Jarred, and Ivanka? Is it just fair to assume, and point at this couple? Would you feel it fair if a finger was pointed at you? Or perhaps Jill Biden?  Just not appropriate. We factually at this point know Biden as well as Pence, as well as Trump, have taken and kept documents from the White House. The law somewhat (note the word somewhat)  covers Trump as a President with powers the VPs did not have. The two VPs are in hot water.  Ignorance is not accepted when one breaks the law.   
      
      Leaving Trump aside,  are we at this point willing to excuse Biden and Pence for breaking the law?  They both were senators for many years, and both would have frequently handled classified documents, and would most certainly know the protocol. As I have said previously, both made comments that were very critical of Trump for removing documents from the WH
      
      Pence --   During the interview, Pence denied taking classified documents from the White House after Muir directly asked him if he did so.
      
      "I did not," Pence answered.
      https://www.newsweek.com/mike-pence-den … nd-1776227
      
      Just not willing to think the VPs as we; as Senators are not fully aware of the protocol for handling classified documents.

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         peoplepower73posted 22 months agoin reply to this

         Sharlee:  I did not take documents home.  They were locked up in department  file cabinets with bars and padlocks every night. However when we did leave the premises, our brief cases where searched by security guards both on entry and exit.
         
         I was not a high level government official though, like a senator, VP, or president. I believe it is a case of who watches the watchers. They more than likely know the protocol, but at their level who is watching over them to ensure they don't commit security violations? 
         
         Ivanka and Jared both failed their security investigations when applying for top secret clearances.  Trump wasn't having any of that, so he demanded that they be granted Top secret clearances because they were both working for Trump as his aides. Since they were given security clearances by Trump, It's very likely they were not given any instructions of how to handle security material.
         
         
         This whole security debacle raises many questions.
         
         Are high level officials subject to the same security standards as underlings when entering or leaving secure areas?
         
         Do high level officials pack their own boxes when leaving office or do they have others do it?
         
         Are high level officials subject to the same policies and procedures when handling classified materials as their underlings?  Trump, Biden, and Pence all have some documents that require SCIF facilities when accessing those SCIF documents.
         
         Again, who watches the watchers?
         
         https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- … SKCN1RD2HU

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            Sharlee01posted 22 months agoin reply to this

            "They more than likely know the protocol, but at their level who is watching over them to ensure they don't commit security violations? "
            
            This certainly may be the case. It seems we have at least two VPs that did walk away with papers. So yes, I can agree.
            
            I do remember that back in 2019  Trump ordered that his son-in-law, Jared,  and his daughter be given a top-secret security clearance, even after intelligence officials discovered problems with his
            background check.
            
            I have a feeling you hit on the problem no one is watching the watchers.

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