GOP Nightmare
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions … op-doomed/
Opinion A Republican nightmare seems about to become real
By Jennifer Rubin
Columnist
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July 24, 2023 at 8:48 a.m. EDT
Supporters of then-President Donald Trump take over balconies and inauguration scaffolding on Jan. 6, 2021, at the Capitol. (Matt McClain/The Washington Post)
For years now, some Republicans — and, to a large extent, the mainstream media — have harbored the notion that the GOP eventually would come to its senses. Surely, it would eventually dump the unhinged, disloyal, undemocratic and unfit Donald Trump, right?
But if Republicans did not wake from their slumber after the first impeachment or the second, after a jury decided he had lied about sexually assaulting E. Jean Carroll, after an indictment accusing him of obstruction and violating the Espionage Act (set out in shocking detail), and after replete evidence of his alleged role in an attempted coup, it is hard to imagine what would bring them to their senses. There is scant evidence that Trump would flee the race to focus on his legal defense; to the contrary, the worse his legal position, the more desperate he becomes to regain power.
Elected Republicans and right-wing media figures have contributed to the predicament as they have minimized, rationalized and denied jaw-dropping allegations against Trump. They have made it easy for Republicans to cling to Trump. Listen, stealing and bandying about top-secret documents isn’t so bad, is it? And, after all, he didn’t do all that much on Jan. 6, 2021, did he?
This is what results when a party, its pundit class and millions of followers cut themselves off from reality, fall into a world of paranoid conspiracies and refuse to simply acknowledge they were very, very wrong to side with him.
And, frankly, the mainstream media has made it that much easier for Republicans to stick with Trump. Rather than challenge Republicans at every turn to defend their embrace of Trump or even to examine seriously the historical origins of toxic racist, xenophobic and delusional beliefs, the mainstream media largely sticks to horserace politics. (How disagreeable to grapple with the deep pathology in American politics and abandon false equivalence between the parties.)
Before going down the road to political doom, Republicans should understand how refusing to jettison Trump as their standard-bearer would play out. The so-called E. Jean Carroll II trial is scheduled for January. The Manhattan criminal trial is set for March, but even a conviction there might not move the GOP primary electorate. (Trivial! Set up!) The Mar-a-Lago documents case won’t begin before May. (All are subject to delay.) Meanwhile, the GOP presidential primary will have gotten underway in January and will run through March. Republicans might crown a presumptive winner by early May (as happened in 2016), even before the Mar-a-Lago trial concludes.
Without verdicts in the Jan. 6 cases and with appeals pending in any others (e.g., New York, Florida), the chances that a Republican National Convention in July filled with Trump-pledged delegates experiencing a spasm of buyer’s remorse (and overturning the primary winner) are slight. (Think of that being as probable as House Speaker Kevin McCarthy growing a spine or the party rediscovering the charms of moderate governors).
The GOP could very well be saddled with a nominee who has been indicted multiple times and perhaps convicted more than once. They would be betting that millions of voters who didn’t vote for him last time would vote for an indicted or possibly convicted nominee who spends most of his time railing about his plight.
And, keep in mind, even without the legal baggage, Trump would face an uphill climb to match his 2016 results. Democratic pollster Celinda Lake and documentary filmmaker Mac Heller recently wrote for The Post that “between Trump’s election in 2016 and the 2024 election, the number of Gen Z (born in the late 1990s and early 2010s) voters will have advanced by a net 52 million against older people.” Put differently, the 2024 electorate will be younger and more Democratic — by a lot — than the electorate that chose Trump in 2016. The GOP will be pleading with a less Trump-friendly electorate to ignore his alleged crime spree and reelect the Jan. 6 instigator.
If it seems fantastical, even unimaginable, that a party would put itself in such a position, remember this is a party that obsesses over Hunter Biden, elevates to prominence Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) and still won’t admit that Joe Biden won the White House in 2020. Maybe it’s time to acknowledge that, barring an epiphany, the GOP’s self-delusion is risking a political wipeout that will take out more than its disastrous nominee. And it won’t be able to claim it wasn’t warned.Propaganda for the Deep State. Everything the Democrats have done they falselycharge President Trump for doing. From the Russia Collusion Hoax, to the Ukraine Hoax, to graft, corruption, and tax evasion; stealing elections, authoritarianism, fascism, lying about everything, subverting the Constitution and Rule of Law, launching an Insurrection, et al. That is part of the Alinsky strategy: Accuse your enemies of what you are doing to lay down a fog on the battlefield. The fact is the Left hates America and wants it destroyed root and branch. President Trump stands in their way. Hence the unprecedented outside of the Third World persecution of the man and his supporters.
In response to the article, in my own view ---
One should keep in mind, the diversity of opinion: It's important to recognize that opinions on political matters can vary widely, and not all Republicans necessarily hold the same views or actually support Donald Trump. There are Republicans who have spoken out against many of his actions as his, as well as policies, and some have distanced themselves from him.
Some supporters of Trump often emphasize his policy achievements and his job performance. Such as tax reforms, deregulation efforts, and conservative judicial appointments. Some may argue that these policy decisions should be the primary focus when evaluating his presidency, rather than focusing solely on legal issues and scandals.
Political Allegations. While the editorial mentions allegations against Trump, it's essential to remember that allegations are not the same as proven guilt, in all mentioned incidents. Supporters might point out that Trump has not been convicted in many of the mentioned cases and should be considered innocent until proven guilty.
From a strategic perspective, some Republicans may even argue that Trump's continued popularity among the party's base is crucial for electoral success. They might believe that supporting Trump is necessary to maintain unity and win elections, regardless of what critics say.
Critics may also argue that the mainstream media's coverage of Trump has been biased and disproportionately negative, leading to a skewed perception of his presidency. One might highlight instances where media outlets have misreported or sensationalized events related to Trump.
Supporters may contend that the Democratic Party's actions and strategies are not entirely free from criticism either. They might argue that both sides engage in political tactics to discredit their opponents, making it essential to analyze information critically from multiple sources.
Should it not be important to note that political discussions often involve differing perspectives, and reasonable people can have opposing views on the same topic? Assessing information critically and seeking diverse viewpoints can contribute to a more comprehensive understanding of complex political issues.QAnon has a lot to answer for with their crazy conspiracy theories.
Congress wasting its time with people who claim to have seen aliens.
No wonder the rest of the world thinks the US is completely nuts.Your ignorance and my ingnorance does not prove that aliens do not exist. It means we do not know things. If pilots and military intelligence people step forward and want to talk about this do you not think the people in congress can spend some time asking about it?
I guess the alternative would be to remain ingnorant."If pilots and military intelligence people step forward and want to talk about this do you not think the people in congress can spend some time asking about it?"
Fine, but not much. I have been hearing things like this for years, where is the evidence? Any civilization capable of instellar travel is well ahead of humanity at this point, could they have shrouded their presence from us so effectively and for this long?I have no idea if this is real or not. I am ignorant on the subject. However, it was a few hours for a few people in congress on one day. It certainly is not any reason for the world to think the US has gone nuts.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan.
And there aren't. It's all incredibly vague. Mostly talk in clichés, variations of Star Trek movie scenarios.
If politicians want to spend their time talking about the existence of aliens, fine, but in their free time.
I've never heard of any European country doing something like this, nor the Chinese government or nor the Russian. It shows the US government is in a league of its own!!! Thanks to QAnon and the high percentage of believers in conspiracy theories.
Aliens sell. And that's the only reason why the Roswell case had so many sequels...A never-ending story.
Don't get me wrong I'm a sci-fi lover. But Aliens on Earth... No Way this can be done in secret.
Nevertheless fun to talk about. But we should distinguish reality from fiction and QAnon is mixing them up big time with dangerous consequences.No, it has nothing to do with Qanon. You sound like one of those Rolling Stone writers that said that just because a movie points out child trafficking it is a Qanon movie.
Are you still of the belief that there was no COVID leak from the Wuhan lab? They too can say things that are true, even if the leftists do not agree with them.
I have no idea if it is fiction or not, but I do know that those politicians are paid to look into things. It is not something they should have to do on their own free time.What I mean to say is that QAnon has created an atmosphere where lies and conspiracies have become a social and political issue. It is simply crazy that a Pizza child trafficking hoax was used to discredit Hillary Clinton just before the elections for example.
And a lot of people bought this crazy story.
It started even before QAnon.
This is a very peculiar thing with the US and its conspiracy theories. It has a long tradition in that way. the JFK murder, Roswell, the MLK murder, 9/11, moon landing hoax etc.
In this line of public debate and sensationalism, the Alien conspiracy is something very American. Popularized by the X-Files. (I loved them) and Hollywood I guess.
Of course, the UK has David Icke with his lizard people, and then you've got the classic Swiss author Erich von Däniken with " Chariots of the Gods.." I read them too as a teenager.
But these conspiracies should stay in the domain of the entertainment industry and not be a serious question hour of Congress.
It looks to me that fiction and facts are interchangeable in American society.
I feel that I do not explain myself rightly, but I wonder what it significates.Yes, I remenber Pizzagate, It was fiction, but then along comes info on Epstein island (which Bill Cinton visited) so who knows? We certainly do not.
Not sure how that relates to a congressional hearing on aliens, even if we choose to not believe them. Things that were looked into by congress, called conspiracy theories, and then later proved true (like the CIA killling JFK) just makes them more likely to investigate everything.Dr. Mark: No one ever proved the CIA killed Kennedy.
You can choose to believe their lies. I do not.
I have followed the details of the Kennedy Assassination closely, I have read many of the books, seen the documentaries etc. no one has ever PROVEN that the CIA was behind Kennedy's murder.
The fact that the US government has refused to release the information they have about this case is proof enough. If there were not evidence, they would have released those CIA documents.
I was a child when this happened, I am an old man now. There is no excuse for hiding the information.What information have they refused to release, proving the CIA did it?
"The newly disclosed records are less than 10 percent of more than 15,000 documents that the National Archives says have not been fully released"
Why?
https://theintercept.com/2022/12/22/dec … files-cia/That did not answer the question. Unless you are claiming you viewed that 90% of the records and that they contain proof the CIA did it?
They do not release the records for 60 years because they are innocent? No, of course I am not claiming I have seen them. If I were a murderer, and there was no evidence and I never told anyone about it, would that make me innocent?
How is anyone expected to know the truth when they continue to cover it up 60 years later?The question was how you know anything at all is "covered up" when you have zero data to show otherwise?
I understand you haven't seen the records; it was a rhetorical question to point out that because you haven't seen them, and have no proof of anything at all, you cannot claim the CIA did it. That's how the conspiracy theories start; a claim made without any proof except "I don't believe you and therefore I know the real story is something different so I will make something up".
You have provided a reasonable argument.
Why?
It is coming up on 60 years, and like you, I come from the "kid to old man" scenario.
Why would the government not come forth and open all the sealed records at so late a time, unless due to its fear that it could still be implicated regarding the events that day, and someone or some entity could still be held responsible?
There has been no political assassinations in this country that has had so many gnawing questions that remain unanswered. Who else would the Government be protecting for so long, if not CIA, who?
It's the overall picture. The US has an abundance of conspiracy theories and alien sightings. Two things that are both in odds with science and rational thinking.
People believe aliens have landed on Earth, but at the same time think the moon landing was a hoax!
Now what are the odds that aliens landed on earth and nobody has seen it. and the only proof is blurry footage.
And what are the odds that the moonlanding was an hoax while thousands of people worked on the project...
I think that the United States (and the rest of the world has its portion too!) has a reality problem. There is so much fake news on the television and the internet that the truth becomes obsolete. People know about the truth but don't care about it anymore as fake news is more entertaining. And bit by bit by seeing so much fake news, they start to believe it. First, there is doubt. Like the classic election fraud. First, (before the election) the truth is undermined with doubt. and bit by bit it is corroded. Even though there is hardly any evidence. But the evidence is not important anymore. Just shout enough times that Obama is a Muslim and people will start to believe it.
It's this overall picture that sets the tone and results in Congress talking to people who believe saw aliens but have hardly any evidence. It's almost symbolic.
And deep fake and AI will only complicate these matters.
As was stated in a LA times article about why so many young democrats remain democrats with age, is that the Republican Party has gone from being conservative to becoming authoritarian, its rank and file becoming irrational as your article points out here.
Here's hoping he is re-elected!
All that this article and you sharing every word of it shows me, is that the corrupted D.C. swamp has help.It is difficult to admit that you're wrong. A process of excepting extreme populism like Trump goes step by step. Just as Hitler introduced National Socialism step by step.
A good movie is "The Wave". showing how bit by bit things are accepted. Things that wouldn't be accepted when done in leaps.
Remember the sexual assault case of Bill Clinton. The world was too small. Now with multiple accusations of Trump and Epstein, it's just another story in the newspaper.
QAnon poisend the internet with its fake news. (Pizza gate, ellection fraud, deep state, UFO etc.) The US is the country with the most conspiracy theory believers, is this a coincidence? No it's the information that's fed. Input-Output.
So Why does the GOP still support Trump?
Well as always follow the money. Trump is anti-climate change and pro-coal and oil. The extreme right-wing think tanks (sponsored by the Koch fam.) is rolling out the classic climate crisis hoax like they did for smoking cigarettes. Telling everybody that smoking cigarettes has no relation with lung cancer....
Same with all the stories about climate change.
The support of Trump by the rich and the oil industry is like supporting Hitler by the megacorps and rich and royal families in the 30-40s till the shit hits the fan. But in this case, the shit is the climate, and you can't change it back.
The GOP is, therefore, a world wide criminal organization if it continues to deny climate change and actively works against it to stop it.
As climate change is deadly and irreversible.
I don't think I've ever reposted an entire article before, but this one is worth discussing - in my view.
James: Good to hear from you. It's been a while.In response to the article. From a Republican's viewpoint.
One should keep in mind, the diversity of opinion: It's important to recognize that opinions on political matters can vary widely, and not all Republicans necessarily hold the same views or actually support Donald Trump. There are Republicans who have spoken out against many of his actions as his, as well as policies, and some have distanced themselves from him.
Some supporters of Trump often emphasize his policy achievements and his job performance. Such as tax reforms, deregulation efforts, and conservative judicial appointments. Some may argue that these policy decisions should be the primary focus when evaluating his presidency, rather than focusing solely on legal issues and scandals.
Political Allegations. While the editorial mentions allegations against Trump, it's essential to remember that allegations are not the same as proven guilt, in all mentioned incidents. Supporters might point out that Trump has not been convicted in many of the mentioned cases and should be considered innocent until proven guilty.
From a strategic perspective, some Republicans may even argue that Trump's continued popularity among the party's base is crucial for electoral success. They might believe that supporting Trump is necessary to maintain unity and win elections, regardless of what critics say.
Critics may also argue that the mainstream media's coverage of Trump has been biased and disproportionately negative, leading to a skewed perception of his presidency. One might highlight instances where media outlets have misreported or sensationalized events related to Trump.
Supporters may contend that the Democratic Party's actions and strategies are not entirely free from criticism either. They might argue that both sides engage in political tactics to discredit their opponents, making it essential to analyze information critically from multiple sources.
Should it not be important to note that political discussions often involve differing perspectives, and reasonable people can have opposing views on the same topic? Assessing information critically and seeking diverse viewpoints can contribute to a more comprehensive understanding of complex political issues."Assessing information critically and seeking diverse viewpoints can contribute to a more comprehensive understanding of complex political issues."
Yes 100% This cuts to the core. Many in our nation would be better served to step outside of their information vacuums. I wish that more would realize that certain media outlets are built almost solely on spin. A piece of news is carefully crafted into a red meat for their viewership. We know it's very often one sided, overly simplistic and with important facts or context being left out. It seems that many are content with that style of reporting and therefore don't look for the rest of the story on other outlets. It's a shame because there really are still many good, complete news sources that don't operate with polarization as a goal.
Why don't some among us want to consider the full picture, history and contributing factors to any story? Are we really that simplistic that we can only digest that which has been split into black or white with all nuance swept away?In my view, the reluctance or resistance to consider the full picture, history, and contributing factors to any issue can be attributed to multiple reasons. I feel it's important to approach your question with nuance and not make simplistic generalizations about human behavior.
Can you agree that humans are prone to various cognitive biases, such as confirmation bias, which can lead us to favor information that confirms our existing beliefs and opinions while at times disregarding contradictory evidence? Could we agree, this human mindset can lead to a narrow perspective and an unwillingness to entertain alternative viewpoints?
In my view, I see emotions play a significant role in decision-making and information processing. People might be drawn to stories or narratives that evoke strong emotions, and this can work to form their judgment, making it difficult for them to see the bigger picture.
In the digital age, we are bombarded with a vast overload of information and news every single day. The sheer volume of data can be overwhelming, making it challenging to thoroughly research and understand complex issues fully.
People often have limited time to invest in researching and understanding every story deeply. As a result, they may rely on simplified or pre-packaged narratives that align with their existing beliefs, byline, a sentence here, and their... rather than delving into the nuances of the full picture.
Then we have the humans tend to form groups and identify with specific ideologies or belief systems. This tribal/group mentality can lead individuals to prioritize loyalty to their group over objective analysis of information, further reinforcing a black-and-white perspective. No room for grey.
What I feel, and have noted, not everyone has developed strong critical thinking skills, which are essential for analyzing issues and considering multiple views.
Embracing the full picture often means accepting uncertainty and acknowledging that not everything is clear-cut. This can be uncomfortable for some people who prefer a sense of certainty and simplicity that a group offer.
My thoughts, I feel and have come to recognize, more than ever, that human behavior is diverse, and many individuals actively seek out and appreciate nuanced perspectives. I think we need to encourage critical thinking, empathy, and open dialogue this could work to help promote a more comprehensive understanding of any given issue.With the absolute deluge of information today, both true and false with lots of partial stories thrown in, we would perhaps be much better off if we spent some real time teaching our youngsters how to make reasoned conclusions. A couple of years in high school maybe.
I very much agree. I think the best education starts at home, and in the past at their schools. It's unfortunate much of the traditional family is not exist. Many parents leave their kids in the hands of outside influences.
Teaching children critical thinking on a day-to-day basis in their homes is less prevalent today.
Eat your peas, they make you healthy...
Rake the lawn and you will earn money...
Keep your calm, and respect others...
Work to take care of your needs, and all the other wonderful things you strive to obtain.
All in-home learning can work miracles to help a child face a world that is not always pleasant, but they have been offered skills to help navigate that world.In my experience people today can follow critical thinking paths if led by the hand. They will not, however, take those same paths by themselves for many of the reasons you listed, especially the one about confirmation bias.
So no, children are not being taught how to reason and think at home for there is no one to set an example and no one to do the teaching."So no, children are not being taught how to reason and think at home for there is no one to set an example and no one to do the teaching."
I agree, and go one step further, some are being taught the concepts that don't fit into our current social norms. They then are at a real disadvantage.I agree. When children are taught concepts far outside cultural norms they are at a real disadvantage in that culture.
That is not to say they should be taught to be cookie cutter models of the "norm" - far from it - but they must be able to fit in to at least some degree.
For roughly 200 years, particularly the Industrial Age, schools existed to teach children how to be productive citizens, how to read, write, follow instruction, be useful in fields of construction, assembly, etc.
What they are currently focusing on, pre-through-12 and in the Universities as well, has shifted.
The focus on Social Justice fields in Universities is staggering today, surpassing Engineering and Science fields.
Binary, cis, gay, trans, furry... you don't get trophies you get participation awards... and of course CRT, reparations, equity.
Teachings within school combined with the pure insanity that can be found on Social Media like TikTok and Instagram put the majority of these young folk in a terrible position before they become adults.
I knew what hard work was, getting paid based on production and effort, before I was in my teens. I bought my first vehicle when I was 17 and my first brand new vehicle when I was 18.
A great many kids these days don't even have their license or have had a job by age 18. They can tell you they are a Pan Trans Non-Binary Furry, but they can't tell you what is deducted out of their paycheck or why.
Less than 20 percent of teens hold a job, which is an all-time low since the United States started keeping track in 1948. Don't believe me, look it up.
Great civilizations are not murdered. Instead, they take their own lives.
The Roman Empire covered 4.4 million sq km in 390. Five years later, it had plummeted to 2 million sq km, less than half remained.
By 476, the empire’s reach was zero.
Human civilization's deep past is marked by recurring failure.
There is a simple saying:
Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.
I think when one looks back through history, at great civilizations that collapsed, that saying can be applied to them, it will be no different with our current civilization now.
The Romans were built on a very hardworking, militant society, you earned your land and titles through service and sacrifice.
The Romans declined when they lost those traits and all their wealth couldn't save them, instead of having a hardworking, committed to the empire society, they had a self indulgent elite and masses of people that wanted to be entertained and felt entitled just because they were Roman.
The Romans no longer fielded elite armies, they hired and bribed barbarian tribes to do their war fighting for them.
You could transpose a great many of the Roman Empire's failings late in its history to what we are seeing today, it correlates well.
The corruption in the ruling class, bread and circuses for the masses, escalating social degradation... no longer fielding their own army but having barbarians fight for them, never really winning or conquering any new territory, etc.
Corruption and government expenses and no precious plunder incoming from conquered enemies, as the Empire began falling in on itself, led to hyperinflation, soaring taxes, and worthless money (no longer made with precious metal) creating a trifecta that dissolved Rome's ability to trade, and crippled its economy.
The Dollar could face a swift collapse, based on many very bad decisions made by the current Administration. The war with Russia, alienating Saudi Arabia, and "printing" more dollars to fund senseless government spending sprees could come home to roost much quicker than it took for all of the Roman Empire's countless bad leaders and mistakes to bring about its downfall.Hard times create dictators.
The Roman Empire was built on slavery and imperialism. The Empire could only maintain itself by conquering more land with military force. it was built on everlasting expansion (like the growth economy of today)
The UK empire was built on slaves and imperialism too. And the Dutch empire as well.
You forget that those Empires brought millions of people to misery who did not live in the original country. (UK, Italy, US, Spain, Holland,)
I know they also brought new ideas and technologies.. but compared to what?
At the moment the conquering world, Europe and US are still exploiting the third world through clever banking systems and eternal debt.
Talking about debt. You could buy a car at 17 by hard work. Now students work hard at universities and are in a huge debt not being able to buy a car.
My parents could buy a house with a small income. Today a small income is not enough to buy a house. Times have changed.
Critical thinking, yes, this is a problem. Thanks to the QAnon and conspiracy theories, the fake news without good research, influencers and YouTubers just screaming tips and "wisdom" not to help people but to get views. This social media algorithm based on advertisement has made many people lose their critical thinking. Congress is spending its time on people claiming to have seen aliens!!! Waste of time!
What kids have to learn at schools today is to learn to distinguish fake news from true news - distinguish the fake articles based on rumors and fantasies from the articles based on research..
Can you teach them this in a world of deep fake and AI?
It's not an easy world to grow up in.
"If it seems fantastical, even unimaginable, that a party would put itself in such a position"
We have a Party that supports Delusion, Corruption and Insanity.
Prepubescent children allowed irreversible sex change.
76 different sexes and counting.
Equity not Equality.
Men allowed to claim that they are women, and given all the access, rights and protected status of minorities, even over women's rights.
Denial of a multi-billion dollar child trafficking industry within the US.
Open Borders and the dissolution of Religion, Patriotism and Nationalism in favor of nihilism and international law.
Full support of social deconstruction and the acceptance of evil in the name of progress is accepted by one party, those not beaten down by countless decades of deceit and propaganda recognize the truth of the matter, even if they remain numb to it... at least... until the failure of it all comes home to roost, the economy collapses, and the struggle to survive becomes all too real for the vast majority of Americans.This discussion has brought to mind this old hub, if folks will for give me for sharing it.
https://discover.hubpages.com/politics/ … emember-ItPersonally, I don't believe all the pertinent records will be unsealed during Caroline Kennedy's lifetime.
That is crazy, but I did think of distress for the Kennedy family as part of the reason that this information has been withheld for so long. With the amount of time that has passed and so many questions unanswered, I would think that Caroline would be on board just to clear the air. She, being the most immediate surviving member of JFK's family, siblings and all.
Trump people, questions to think about or another morsel of agony for you...
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-candid … 15875.htmlWell, we know President Trump is innocent of these charges. Any honest person would admit these are third worldish political persecutions by radical prosecutors to the Left of Mao sworn to "get Trump;" to find a crime to hang on him using statutes never used against real criminals, such as the Biden and Clinton Crime families.
"we know President Trump is innocent of these charges"
How do we "know" that, James?In New York, you have a local DA trying to prosecute a federal statute. It is nothing but harassment. In the documents case, every president since Reagan did the same thing and everybody knows it. The worst one was Biden who did as VP, which is not shielded as it is for presidents. HE is the one who should be going to jail. But the Left always follows the advice Lucifer acolyte, Saul Alinksy, to accuse those you hate of doing exactly what you are doing. Hillary colluded with Russia. Obama spied on Trump. Biden sold us out to Ukraine and China. The level of evil corruption is sickening. President Trump told his supporters to protest peacefully. Democrats say he led an insurrection. BLM and Antifa said they were leading an insurrection. Democrats said they were peaceful.
Chuckle --- How do we know he is not innocent?
I have to ask you, Sharlee, in this case how do we know that Biden and family are not innocent? There is a much greater chance of that as the son has not been indicted.
Yes, the Biden's, including Joe, are having lots of allegations levied against them. Innocent until proven guilty allies. However, factually Hunter has been indicted on a couple of charges, and his plea deal was tossed out last week. Not sure where the courts will go with him now.
In New York, you have a local DA trying to prosecute a federal statute. It is nothing but harassment. In the documents case, every president since Reagan did the same thing and everybody knows it. The worst one was Biden who did as VP, which is not shielded as it is for presidents. HE is the one who should be going to jail. But the Left always follows the advice Lucifer acolyte, Saul Alinksy, to accuse those you hate of doing exactly what you are doing. Hillary colluded with Russia. Obama spied on Trump. Biden sold us out to Ukraine and China. The level of evil corruption is sickening. President Trump told his supporters to protest peacefully. Democrats say he led an insurrection. BLM and Antifa said they were leading an insurrection. Democrats said they were peaceful.
Actually, the federal statute isn't even needed to get the charges to felonies. The falsification of business records is charge number one and the design to do it in a way to skirt tax law is the second charge that raises the initial charges up to felonies.
Now, your claim that every president did the same thing since Reagan in regards to classified documents ignores the actual charges against Trump. He is not being charged with taking the documents. He is being charged with willfully trying to retain them and obstruction of justice when the government subpoenaed him lawfully to return them. In those crimes, Trump stands alone. No other president did either action. And Pence was also a VP in possession of documents, which like Biden, were returned as soon as both men were aware of their presence. There's the difference you seem to be unwilling to accept.
You also remain in denial about the proven collusion between Trump's Campaign manager and Russian Intelligence where Rick Gates detailed the numerous meetings between Manafort and Kilimnik and the campaign strategy and internal polling data that was passed to the Russians. To think the government shouldn't investigate a candidate whose campaign chair had been proven to be colluding to win the presidency with one of our most hostile adversaries is just not smart national security policy.
As for Obama spied on Trump claim, that makes sense if you ignore the timelines. One of Trump's Campaign aides, someone who had previously been actively recruited by Russians, travels to Russia while working for the Trump Campaign, and after there had already been an investigation opened because of George Papadopoulus bragging to the French about the campaign's connections with Russia. Carter Page left the Trump Campaign in September of 2016. The FISA warrant was not granted until October of 2016. So how exactly do you spy on someone not with Trump's Campaign and equate that to spying on Trump. Easy. You misplace the actual target with the leader of the campaign and completely ignore the fact that the man had been terminated from the campaign for a month.
As for your last post of the three above, I reported that to the site and hope they ban you for life. Pretty sure it's warranted when you accuse another member of this site of 'sexualizing kindergartners.'Thank you for questioning these undocumented claims. Opinion stated as fact should always be challenged.
In my opinion, the views of the right seem to always omit key facts from the conversation to make flawed conclusions. Just trying to add in information they seem to not get from their own media, or make the choice to ignore because it's damning to their case.
James, I agree with your thoughts. We are seeing what I feel is a very weaponized government. It scares me, but as I have said before we have one vote, and we get what we vote for. It's unfortunate to see America so split, and such a true mess. (agian my view.)
It's certainly going to feel weaponized when we elect people that attempt to skirt our laws to benefit themselves. Whether it be for personal gratification (Clinton), personal vendettas (Bush Jr.), financial gain (Clinton/maybe Biden), or try and absolve a bruised ego (Trump).
With this I agree, including the characterization of various Presidents. We get what we vote for.
But. With that "weaponization" perhaps we are beginning (just beginning) to see that the law applies to everyone even though it may take years longer to make a case.
You know Trump is innocent of charges? I certainly don't.
An honest person is not going to excuse up to 40 federal felony charges against a public figure due to mindless malevolence or sheer coincidence...
And, You can bet your bottom dollar, James, we are going to "get him".None of the charges will stick because President Trump, unlike the Bidens, has not broken any laws. The only thing that motivates your side is sheer hatred. And hate is one of your favorite words.
As for the charges sticking, we will just have to see about that, James.
I use the word "truth" more often, perhaps you and yourside might consider that sometime?Truth as in 'Trump was a Russian agent?' Or truth as is 'Trump said Nazis were good people?' Or 'Trump put a bounty of US soldiers?' Or "Trump lied when he said he was being surveilled?'
And yet the only people who ever actually mention the word are those on the right when they falsely accuse people of it.
Trump was already convicted by his fellow citizens of sexually abusing a woman and defaming her - there are laws that prevent those actions by the way since it seems that people are oblivious to this. His business was convicted by a jury of his peers of illegal business practices. Like most things on the right, the claim that failed former president Donald Trump did not break any laws ignores basic facts like him losing in court twice already.
So please excuse us when we see the claims of hatred in the same light as the claim that Trump has not broken any laws - just another of the right's alternate realities.The "righties" often claim hatred of Trump from the left; the "lefties" just as often demonstrate it...while claiming they don't hate.
But perhaps we are using different definitions of "hatred". Mirriam Webster defines "hatred" as:
1. extreme dislike or disgust : hate
2. ill will or resentment that is usually mutual : prejudiced hostility or animosity
There can be zero doubt that a great many of the left have, and demonstrate, that extreme dislike or disgust or that they demonstrate ill will or resentment. Are you using a different standard for the word?Except that the feelings of the left could just as easily be explained as seeing Trump as unfit for the office, corrupt, as well as a danger to the country based on:
1.) Lying to the public about the dangers of Covid
2.) Organizing and inciting a domestic terror attack on his own Capitol
3.) Inspiring a follower to attack the FBI offices in Cincinnati
4.) Undermining NATO
5.) His obstruction in trying to retain classified documents
I'm sure there are those that dislike Trump and the definition applies to many. But assuming it with this kind of statement is latest attempt to defend a falsehood: 'The only thing that motivates your side is sheer hatred.' The motivations from the left could just as easily be patriotic in trying to stop unconstitutional policies like child separation. Could be concern for the segments of the population that GOP policies aim to harm. Could be a desire to protect police from further violence based on lies. Any way you slice it, assuming hate as the only motivation for the entirety of the people that oppose the leader of your own political party is just a false assumption not based in any reality.Agreed. It is not only hate, but a combination of all of it put together.
But the difference is stark. Conservatives look at that terrible separation of children from parents after criminal activities and wonder about American kids going through the same thing, but that's OK. They look at Bidens inflation but don't hate him for it - most recognize that giving money away (the root cause) is a liberal thing that will never change. They look at idiot liberals defunding police, making crime worse but hate no one for it. They look at liberals destroying women's sports...same thing as liberals don't comprehend what they are doing there but stupidity is not a reason to hate. The list goes on and on, and Biden is often at the root of changes harming our country but no one hates him for it even though he is patently unfit for the office he holds. Only what he is doing.Glad it was recognized that 'the only liberal motivation is hatred' is an absurd falsity and there is no point trying to defend that.
And you're right, the difference is stark.
- Conservatives look at the human rights violation of child separation for a civil offense and try to use a false equivalency to justify that violation of the 14th Amendment by ignoring the rights of parents in non-violent arrests to determine what happens to their children. Rights guaranteed to both citizens and non-citizens based on precedent.
- Conservatives look at inflation and can ignore any contribution that their party leader had to it and try and assign all the blame to just Biden in the most cultish manner possible. Claiming that giving away money is a liberal thing, despite there being two stimulus packages signed off on by their own party leader.
- Then they claim it's just 'idiot liberals' who ever talk about defunding law enforcement in the same year when numerous members of Congress from their own political party seem to have the same idiocy and have openly talked about defunding the FBI and DOJ. If the hypocrisy and omission wasn't so ridiculous, it'd almost be laughable. And what did liberals do when there was talk about defunding police, they elected the guy to lead the party who was doing the opposite - talking about increasing funding. The GOP - they seem set to nominate the guy who wants to defund the law enforcement agencies mentioned. You're right about the difference being stark and that one couldn't display it better about who really backs the blue in this country.
- As for women's sports, the exaggeration of their 'destruction' is the typical right win hysteria. And the research is now there to back limitations of the trans community, even us liberals can admit to that.
And saying Biden is at the root of the inclusivity of trans women in sport is just false as the actual beginnings on trans women competing in women's sports date back as far as 1975. Or that Biden harmed supply chains that so clearly had an effect on inflation, again, ignores basic facts. Or the 2020 stimulus checks that went to so many that did not need them and went to the root causes of that inflation is the omission of more cause and effect to try and pin partisan blame on the opposing leader.
What liberals see is a GOP president that took a 4.2% unemployment rate and ended at 6.3%. One who added $7.8 trillion to the national debt because he failed in his role of protecting the United States from being affected by a deadly pandemic. One who lied about the dangers of that pandemic that research shows caused additional deaths to Americans. One who had a net negative jobs gain during his four year. And one whose supporters deny any of those negative outcomes and policy choices that led to those catastrophic results.
Meanwhile, the Democrat they elected has recovered all the jobs lost and added millions more, brought that unemployment rate back down to record low levels, has the stock market doing well, lowered post-covid inflation (that was a global issue by the way and not just isolated to our country), and passed multiple major pieces of legislation that help American seniors, veterans and the manufacturing sector of the country. Not to mention trying to actually combat climate change instead of denying it even exists despite the science being conclusive on the point.
And all the opposing candidate has done since the left and independents voted him out of office includes:
- Organizing and inciting a domestic terror attack on his own Congress
- Ending decades of a peaceful transfer of power that is the hallmark of democracy
- Been convicted of sexually abusing a woman
- Seen his business convicted of fraudulent business practices
- Been arrested for obstructing the retrieval of classified documents
- Taken credit for removing the body autonomy of half of the voting population of the country
- And will likely be arrested in multiple jurisdictions for conspiracy to commit fraud on the United States for his attempts to overturn an election he was told by numerous people that he lost
Yeah, let's not talk about patently unfit with that resume. Pretty clear that the right doesn't understand the phrase by who they support.Again, all these debates are pointless, unless one understands the UN Agenda 2030 and the WEF Great Reset.
The people running THIS government, and many others, Canada being a prime example, are fully onboard with restructuring the country and the Western world to meet these goals.
The people running Disney, Facebook, Google, GE, Target, etc. are being steered by people onboard with these goals and agendas, Black Rock is pushing for this as well.
One needs to understand the efforts by leadership, government, corporate, central banks, international organizations like the IMF, WB, UN are collectively being driven by leadership that is pushing the same goals.
When the G-7, the WEF, etc. have their yearly meetings, they are refining and deciding how to pursue these agendas. They are sponsored by Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Walmart, etc.
This is NOT conspiracy, this is fact, its written in UN releases, WEF releases, it is found on their websites.
If you don't read about the Global Compact on Migration, then you are arguing in ignorance about why we have, essentially, open borders.
The government couches their wording to appear as if it is controlled... read the Global Compact on Migration, then read about the 'official' numbers of people entering into the country, then double that number for all those that cross without being accounted for.
Things that might not seem to make sense, like all the Disney movies that are massive flops of late, as they ram down viewer's throats, their political (woke) agendas... its for a reason, their management have been filled with idealists that put agenda ahead of profit or product.
https://www.unwomen.org/en/digital-libr … ty-results
https://www.unwomen.org/en/news/in-focu … d-the-sdgs
https://www.iisd.org/articles/deep-dive … ustainable
And why the media and Hollywood is on a crusade against The Sound of Freedom is that it puts a spotlight on something else that the UN is trying to normalize.
https://davidicke.com/2023/04/21/un-adv … edophilia/
Now the UN got a lot of negative backlash when it became known that there were efforts within to make pedophilia legal. So they have back tracked and denied it.
Its coming, pedophilia and pedophile will be words that soon will be made improper to use, hate speech, the proper term will become MAPS (Minor Attracted Persons).
It is an insane society that allows its children to be prayed upon, that demands that men who want to identify as a women, be allowed access to all things for women, and that expects tolerance for people who want to identify as a "furry" or "felinepersons".
This is all about division, separation, there will be no social cohesion, no Patriotism, no Nationalism, no solid majority of race or party or religion.
By 2030 this will be accomplished well enough that a NWO, complete with Digital Currency and an International Authority will supersede the American Constitution and the Independance of the Nation.
Started to reply but others answered for me.
"And, You can bet your bottom dollar, James, we are going to "get him"."
Is he not innocent until proven guilty? Or have you just joined in with the mob --- no matter what "get him?""Get Him!" Has that not been the mantra for years now? "Get him" at any cost, guilty or not?
Yes, that was their mantra...Their new mantra -"Why don't the new house just legislate, and stop all their witchhunts"? Guess the GOP has finally realized fight fire with fire. Fling some mud. Hey, I think the GOP has learned from the best on how to proceed with a witchhunt and sling mud.
As has so often happened in our politics, the Democrats (this time; Republicans are just as guilty) have cracked open Pandora's box and brought out a new way to hurt their opponents. Those opponents learn quickly and that kind of machination is becoming the norm, causing harm to both parties that will not end for decades if ever.
100% agree. The vitriol is here to stay, and it will ultimately ruin the country.
Newt Gingrich (from my county in Georgia) declared war on statesmanship when he went to the House of Representatives. The damage he did to our country is still being felt today.
I don't know any politician enough to hate them. But I have developed a keen sense of grief for what so many of them have done to our country. And yes - most of them are in the GOP based on their actions as documented in main stream media.
I need to qualify that comment. "Get him" means consistent with the legal process and as prescribed by law with no special treatment or favoritism applied to his case.
If after all of the indictments he is found innocent, then, I guess, I don't "get him".
Which sounds like a post for its own thread. Nice hijack attempt.
Here is an interesting stat to consider. At Trump's recent Erie, PA rally:
His latest rally in Erie had a crowd size estimated at 4,500 in a half-empty arena.
Oct. 10, 2018, weeks before a critical midterm election, Erie Bureau of Fire Chief Guy Santone estimated the 2018 rally attendance at about 9,000, a capacity crowd for the arena. Not only that, the Erie Times-News reported that as many as 3,000 additional supporters who couldn't get into the arena watched the speech from a large screen on the front lawn.
When he spoke at the venue on Aug. 12, 2016, more than 8,000 people attended his rally, which was held just weeks after he accepted the GOP nomination in Cleveland.
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