Were the 1960s the height of American/Western Civilization?
I have noticed that frequently, of late, whenever delving into political ideas, philosophical ideas, general accomplishments and advancements, works of art (film, books, etc.) that it is hard to find anything better than what was produced in the 60s.
Was there ever a better political orator than JFK?
Certainly not since him.
Have there been more grand, sweeping, incredibly thought provoking movies created than Lawrence of Arabia, 2001 a Space Odyssey and even Dr. Strangelove?
Honorable mention to TV's Star Trek series here.
Books like a ClockWork Orange, Dune, Between Two Ages, Stand on Zanzibar, etc. books were able to look into the future and predict it with amazing accuracy for their time.
Going to the Moon... amazing that we have not done anything more significant in space since then.
I wonder... if the assassinations during the 60s altered the West/America's trajectory, or was it simply inevitable that the spark of brilliance would slowly fade?Then and now, we are at the lower end of the higher ages.
We are actually more advanced now but our vision of what we are today, (much better than the 60's on so many levels,) is obscured by all the craziness. I mean, look at the endeavors and accomplishments of Mr. Musk!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a … _Elon_MuskI agree that technology has improved greatly.
But the human mind... whether we are talking Physics, Philosophy, or general creativity... has it improved since those years?
"lower end of the higher ages" ... while I am unsure specifically what you are referring to, it does appear to be an appropriate sentiment. [edit] your following post explains the reference.
Interesting and intriguing hypothesis/idea, Ken. I have pondered and hemmed and hawed about it since seeing it posted.
First, I have sought to identify what is western civilization and what is American civilization. Yes, they are connected especially since we are an immigrate nation bringing knowledge and ideas from around the world. Significantly important is the philosophical ideas that influenced our founders going as far back as Plato and Socrates. Those of course influenced Locke, Hume, Hobbes, and etc. Then our founders reasoned the Constitution.
Anyway, I have read a few articles including outlines of the history of Western Civilization. One that caught my attention follows;
Are You Smarter Than Your Grandfather? Probably Not. by Smithsonian Magazine (Dec 3, 2012)
Senility isn’t the answer; IQ scores are increasing with each generation. In a new book, political scientist James Flynn explains why
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science- … 150402883/
An interesting article holding my attention. I won't go into detail and just recommend it. The one sentence that puts it in perspective for me is;
"Ultimately, Flynn concludes that human beings are not smarter—just more modern."
I will continue on and off to look into this topic, of which I may add more later.Thank you for the link, some interesting points I saw:
"In 1910, schools were focused on kids memorizing things about the real world. Today, they are entirely about relationships."
Interesting and what is evident today... the focus from 1910 to 1960 was predominantly in STEM fields, science and math were the measurement for intellectual achievement, engineering was almost considered blue collar, but all were considered important.
Today that is flipped, Social Justice leads the field in college teachings, is that a reflection of today's shift to women dominating the higher education system?
"The other important factor is we have learned to use logic to attack the hypothetical. We have an ability to deal with a much wider range of problems than our ancestors would."
When I read this I had to check when the article was written.
2012
Sometime since 2012 we have entered into a new era, where we do NOT "use logic to attack the hypothetical" I would say we have entered into a time when we use feelings and individual-perception to challenge both accepted fact and logic.
However... what I was considering with the opening query/post was not that the average was getting smarter... but that the SMARTEST of us, the ones that make the greatest movies, or the most profound philosophical concepts, or the Theory of Relativity or the advancement of Space Travel, etc. were in the past, in the 60s.
Yes Musk is brilliant in many ways... but not Nikola Tesla brilliant.
Nikola Tesla brought into existence things that never existed before.
Musk took the concept of the electric car, which was first developed in the early 1900s, and revolutionized the concept making it usable in every day use today.
Now maybe he will create new break-thru advancements that the world has never seen before... like with Neuralink and connecting humanity to a greater collective. Or with AI.
But how much of that is AI and computers doing that work, and how much of that is based on the smartest human minds?
Maybe we are living in the greatest of creative moments in history and I cannot see it as such because I am living in it.
Then again... I challenge you to present a modern day movie that is a superior work to Lawrence of Arabia or 2001 a Space Odyssey.I discovered the movies of the forties while caring for my parents. Those movies were also great on so many levels. Mainly psychological. They reveal subtle insights into the human condition. Maybe we have become dumbed down after the forties in general. Maybe we don't even realize the greatness of that time because it was before us and we were so focused on ourselves and our great time.
During the forties, they did not have the technological advancements that we do. They had to rely on themselves for entertainment. They had radio but they used their imaginations for imagery. They were very self-reliant and knew more about surviving and putting up with the hardness and doldrums of life.
They were more tied into their own creative potential on an individual level. What have we lost because of technology, including washing machines, dishwashers, and the myriad of modern conveniences?
Self-reliance and the feeling of being capable, talented and competent develops through the experience and practice of doing what is necessary to survive. Empathy and respect for others is felt when everyone is perceived to be in the same boat: Dealing with the reality of being on the earth. Its not easy.
The easiness of our lives has dumbed us down, I would say.Yeah... we can see that, can't we?
Our parents and grandparents could pour a foundation, frame, wire, plumb a home. At least my father and grandfather could.
I can't. I can re-roof a home, fix plumbing, put in a new ceiling fan and run the wire to the box... but I can't operate a back-hoe and pour a foundation and then frame and build it.
My son has yet to learn how to do any of that.
I used to be able to dis-assemble and re-assemble an entire car.
I can't today... too compact, too many computer components and easily breakable parts.
My son would never even attempt it... maybe that will be my next project, buying a 1970s car and teaching him how to maintain and fix it.
Today computers/AI can do so much for us... the vast majority of the youth will never have any concept of how to survive without it.It is an error to think that ignorance of things from the far past is a failing. Just as it is an error to think our forefathers stupid because they couldn't use a cell phone, a computer or the internet.
No single person can possibly keep up with all that the species is learning. Your father, no doubt, could wire a house...but not to today's standards. He didn't know what a GFCI outlet was, nor a spark arresting breaker. He didn't know how many amps a $10 wire could carry, or what size breaker to install for good protection (mine put pennies behind the fuses when they blew, but also wired at least 3 homes.
Another part of the problem is the specialization that we are creating. That electrician is very specialized in his/her training and knowledge; it is a 4 year college class in my state. Plumbers the same - how many of our parents/grandparents knew what that plumber or electrician knows today? Or even the guy pouring concrete - did Grandpa know, understand and use the huge range of concrete products so readily available today, or just buy a sack of premix and add water for anything he did? Did he reinforce that concrete according to it's use (slab, wall, column etc.)? The guy pouring mud probably doesn't know much about it, but the engineer designing the home (which Grandpa did, too) does know.Good grief, wilderness.
I hope the kids of today are keeping up!
If not, what does the future hold?
Tents?There is some credibility to what you are saying.
Technologies advance and the specializations of one generation will be different than the next.
Cutting edge technology was once a Viking longboat. No one alive today could build such a boat, back then every other Viking probably could make one.
50 years ago plenty of people could repair their own cars, today you need a degree to conduct surgery on them.
But there is also a growing amount of people who are incapable of doing anything remotely related to fixing or repairing anything in the real world.
The period from the middle 1950s to the middle 1960s was the height of American culture. There was the affluent society which witnessed the rise of the American middle class. Because of the GI Bill of World War II, many returning servicemen attended college & obtained white collared jobs. There was the rise of the organization man in corporate America. Although there were some negativities such as racial & gender discrimination, American society was mostly idyllic.
However in 1965, there was the implementation of social welfare programs which started America on a downward spiral to become an entitled society. While some aspects of the Great Society programs did get people out of poverty, there were programs that created generational welfare. That is my synopsis on the subject.Well, if you want to look forward to what is ahead...
The Professor Banned From Speaking Out: "We Need To Start Preparing Before It's Too Late!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cFu-b5lTMUThank You!
Exactly!
Obliterating Self-Interest is IMPOSSIBLE ...
and against HUMAN NATURE.
Socialism is a guaranteed FAILED MISSION
Every Single Solitary Time Its Tried.Not true, at least as far as modern socialism goes, actually referring to Marxism, where everything belongs to everyone.
A recent trip to the Scandinavian countries along the Baltic Sea was an eye opener as they are nearly all far down that road of socialism, or Marxism. In Denmark, for example, our guide told us that the people live under about an 80% taxation of earnings. I can't imagine that!
At the same time, however, these are all very small countries. The country of Denmark, for example, has fewer people than New York City. We've always had small conclaves of strong socialism and even communism. A few people can agree far better than a large number.
So yes, socialism can work for a small homogenous group of people (that's another thing those countries have that we don't' - they all think alike within the country. They are not the "melting pot" as we are.I bet they're somewhat bored.
I wonder what their motivation is, to work.
If I were keeping only 20%, I would do whatever I could to hide from everybody.
For the sake of a feeling of freedom.I was working with a very talented Swedish veterinarian many years ago on a project in India and I asked him why, when he knew so much about goats, he did not work more in his home country. He responded "why would I? I am taxed 90%, and if I work more the tax braket goes up so I will end up paying more."
The socialist disincentive at work!I am missing some aspect of foundational understanding... he knew so much about goats?
How does that translate to making more money in his home country?He was working with goats in India, rather than Sweden, because he could earn more profit.
In Sweden, he is taxed 90%. If he worked more, the tax bracket would go up and he would be taxed even more.
Like what, 100%?
!He was working with me on an international project to develop the dairy goat industry in India. There are many good dairy breeds from Europe and it is definitely an industry that can be improved. Unfortunately, as I mentioned, the taxes there made it unlikely anyone would want to develop an industry. The only reason I can see a company like IKEA working is that the founder just liked to work.
There would probably be more entrepeneurs from there if things were not so oppressive.Thank you for explaining it, the point you were making is clear now.
Two very astute points.
They are small (rich) countries that have had an outside source (America) protecting their interests, their free trade, and acting as their military.
The majority of them think alike and share a long social/culture background... they are not a "melting pot" with extreme differences and beliefs.So without the US watching over them, they would indeed FAIL?
Given what is happening to Ukraine, what do you think?
Well, there you go.
socialism = no good.
Ken, you’ve really sparked something here! What a thought-provoking question, and honestly, it’s such a breath of fresh air from all the usual stuff weighing on our minds. It’s so nice to dive into something deeper and meaningful, especially when everything else seems so monotonous. I so appreciate this thread.
It's fascinating to ponder whether the assassinations of the 60s were pivotal moments that disrupted America's trajectory or if they merely accelerated an inevitable decline. Consider how the loss of leaders like JFK, MLK, and RFK didn't just snuff out individual lives but also extinguished the flames of hope, progress, and unity that they embodied. Could it be that these tragic events marked the beginning of a collective disillusionment, a fracturing of the American spirit that made the slow fade of that "spark of brilliance" not just possible but almost a foregone conclusion? Or perhaps, the real question is whether the idealism of the 60s was ever sustainable in a society built on such deep contradictions. Were we destined to watch the spark flicker and dim, with or without the assassinations, because the very foundation of that brilliance was inherently unstable?The loss not of innocence... but that a brighter future, not built on war but on negotiation and peace, could be built...
There is something there... the suspicions that there was something much more malevolent to these assassinations than a crazy single shooter. We all know better now...
The people that today would be standing up and saying the loudest that "I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character"
The very opposite of DEI
Or they would say "Even today, there is little value in ensuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it."
"Today, no war has been declared, and however fierce the struggle may be, it may never be declared in the traditional fashion. Our way of life is under attack. Those who make themselves our enemy are advancing around the globe. The survival of our friends is in danger. And yet no war has been declared. No borders have been crossed by marching troops. No missiles have been fired. [...] no war ever posed a greater threat to our security. [...] the danger has never been more clear, and its presence has never been more imminent."
We have never been closer to losing that war, held within our own borders, than now.
It is possible that as we make incredible mistakes today, we will also learn greatly from them and never, ever repeat them. Well, until the lower ages come around again.
"The Sanskrit text Brahma-vaivarta Purana describes a dialogue between Lord Krishna and the Goddess Ganges. Here, Krishna says that after 5,000 years of Kali Yuga there will be a dawn of a new Golden Age which will last for 10,000 years.
We are now ending the Kali Yuga, nearly 5,700 years since its beginning in 3676 BCE.
And the end of the Kali Yuga will be followed by three more Yugas spanning 9,000 years, before the ascending cycle ends. "
https://www.bibhudevmisra.com/2012/07/e … eling.html
In the book The Holy Science (1894), Sri Yukteswar clarified that a complete Yuga Cycle takes 24,000 years, and is comprised of an ascending cycle of 12,000 years when virtue gradually increases and a descending cycle of another 12,000 years, in which virtue gradually decreases. Hence, after we complete a 12,000 year descending cycle from Satya Yuga -> Kali Yuga, the sequence reverses itself, and an ascending cycle of 12,000 years begins which goes from Kali Yuga -> Satya Yuga. Yukteswar states that,
'Each of these periods of 12,000 years brings a complete change, both externally in the material world, and internally in the intellectual or electric world, and is called one of the Daiva Yugas or Electric Couple.' "
https://www.crystalclarity.com/products … IzNjk0MDE4Thank you for the information, Kathleen. I am now going to look up the book on Amazon.
Of course, I could be totally wrong, but I think that technology doesn't change the basic nature of man. Meaning that despite modernization of living, we just invented better names for certain downright primitivistic tendencies, like territoriality, greed, arrogance, and fight for the status of an "alpha in the pack".
As an individualist, I don't like generalizing, so there have always been "better times" for some people, while others might remember them as their worst.
Psychologically, we normally find those 60's to be "better", simply because then we were younger, and many aspects of our life were stimulated by youth hormones creating some of our best memories.
As a baby-boomer, I am still listening to Pat Boone, Perry Como, Frank Sinatra, and alike, beside Chopin's nocturnes and other light classical stuff -- and for the life in me I can't understand what the hell is so melodical in rap and heavy metal, other than providing a medium for discharging the raw excess of energy.
But, to each their own, says that individualist in me.
As for the politics, being a political cynic I don't claim to "know" any difference between 60s and now -- as I will always view politicians as unnecessary evil while I see them only as power hungry careerists kicking the crap back and forth ad nauseam and doing basically nothing good for the majorities, only playing puppets to the elite. You see, I just told you "I know nothing about politics" -- you guys must be experts.
I hope no one minds this little piece of a written monolog.Ken, it is Nikola Tesla, not Nikoli Tesla, I should know, we lived in the same country before emigrating and he lived in my home town for a while.
Kathryn, I admire your reference to the ascending and descending cycles. I do believe we are at the edge of Kaliyuga now.
Everything in this world/universe is a cycle of ascending and descending. It is a revolving time. What happened a million years ago will repeat a million years after today. In the same way, knowledge takes birth and dies, and takes birth again.
That's kind of depressing, I would like to believe our enlightenment can grow and expand, not diminish and die... a cycle of logic... not a cycle of life.
Maybe AI will break this cycle and grow beyond it?
Elon's xAI Stuns World In Earth-SHATTERING Day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-b_oL5qYV0
[edit] I also tend to believe we are in/on a multi-dimensional existence time is one of these dimensions and higher dimension beings can see our timeline in the way we can unroll and see the individual frames of a movie... they have the ability to move anywhere within the timeline as time for them does not exist as it does for us, for us it is linear and we have finite moments of consciousness within it.
It is believed the use of psychedelics allows our mind to peer into these other dimensions and see beings from a higher plane, or shift our consciousness into another 'frame' of our plane's existence sometimes sharing in the consciousness of another moment in time.
Perhaps some planes of existence are like planets in our solar system they may orbit and come in closer relevancy to our own, like Mars comes closest to earth every couple of years, making a trip that would only take months to reach it... where as at other times it would take years to reach it with the same mode of travel.
Perhaps psychedelics is the pathway to being able to alter the reality around us... this may be why ancient megalithic ruins around the world appear as if people were able to mold the densest of rocks as if they were clay pushing them together with such perfection, they have withstood countless centuries of earthquakes and other disasters.It appears that ascending cycles see more virtue. Perhaps advancement is based on virtue. Are we a more virtuous society today? Are we becoming more virtuous?
Perhaps we will rediscover the Native American way of life and become more virtuous.!
https://equity.ucla.edu/know/resources- … ples-faqs/
Between 1960 and 2015, life expectancy for the total population in the United States increased by almost 10 years from 69.7 years in 1960 to 79.4 years. Census.gov
This stat doesn't investigate quality of life or admirable qualities in the population, but we're lasting longer.Life expectancy nor quality of life for the total or average of the population was not the point/topic.
The highest thinkers, the bold things envisioned, the ability to dream about a better more enlightened world... reaching new heights.
We went to the Moon in the 60s...
We created visual and psychological masterpieces like Lawrence of Arabia and 2001 a Space Odyssey...
The Andromeda Strain, Dune, Catch-22, Godfather, Cuckoo's Nest, so many great books from that time...
The 60s was the rise of the counter-culture movement. A time of social upheaval, as young people rebelled against the status quo and worked to create a new society.
The leaders that arose from those times, that worked to make those changes, were assassinated. Those deaths impacted the hope, change, and beliefs of those who supported them.
How did that change the trajectory of our Nation?Another question to ponder:
How would the trajectory have manifested if those leaders had lived to fulfill their missions and dreams.True enough... the variations of 'what if' are vast...
Hence more the question, the original query "Were the 1960s the height of American/Western Civilization?"
Has our decency, honesty, civility (vs violence), and most of all has what we produce, create, imagine, our insight into solving the mysteries of the Universe improved?
Is it worsening?
How do you imagine things will develop in the future, with AI, with a world united by an internet that will be available to all people at all times?I think our changes in what we imagine, our insight into solving the mysteries of the Universe have happened at a pace that outstripped our ability to evolve with them.
With the secrecy of identity on the 'net comes a huge loss of honesty and civility. Just one example.
The result is not pretty, but may improve one day.Relating to your first paragraph:
Yes. I agree.
Especially when, for example, the greatest minds in physics cannot take theory past the point Einstein brought us... some small gains aside.
Or in the case of physical achievements, hence why I mentioned those movies, or the moon landing. What have we done to top it?
Maybe we cannot... But... AI created movies and art and computation allowing for understanding well beyond the Theory of Relativity is already pushing on the boundaries of our greatest achievements... we either learn to merge our consciousness with the AI or this technology will move beyond us... probably within our lifetimes.
[EDIT] For Example:
Genesis, this movie entirely made by AI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bVBlWtjs0w
And that was 9 months ago... its improved by multiples since then.
The information below... once learned cannot be forgotten
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfscMJbrrcQJust an aside thought, but do you not count the creation of AI as a really astounding and big achievement?
Boundaries: Freedom of speech should be used to some benefit, not some detriment. There is only one way to ensure that freedom of speech is used to help rather than hinder: Prevent it's abuse through laws.
"Freedom of speech is not regarded as absolute by some, with most legal systems generally setting limits on the freedom of speech, particularly when freedom of speech conflicts with other rights and protections, such as in the cases of libel, slander, pornography, obscenity, fighting words, and intellectual property."
AI development/advancement should be geared toward helping us. It should not be used for nefarious purposes. Laws should be in place to prevent the abuse of artificial intelligence technology.
Easier said than done:
"The reason for this simplification, he adds, is that the specific social effects of any particular AI algorithm are simply too uncertain to anticipate in any realistic detail. “We really are in a brave new world,” he says. “We don’t really know what our algorithms might bring.”
https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.ed … ulating-ai"Freedom of speech should be used to some benefit"
Meaning that violent discussion on the evils of Donald Trump should be permitted as it teaches people the truth and could rid the world of Trump. Certainly a benefit to all, right?
And therein you see the problem; who sets the standards? Who decides what is "nefarious" as opposed to "good"? All while, as you say, we simply cannot predict what will happen anyway!insisting:
AI development/advancement should be geared toward helping us. It should not be used for nefarious purposes. Laws should be in place to prevent the abuse of artificial intelligence technology.I rather doubt that a true Artificial Intelligence will be overly concerned with humanities laws, rules and guidelines. Such "creatures" will do what they will do, and mankind is likely able only to sit back and watch as they do.
Yes and no, it is creating itself... that is the scary secret they don't often tell.
It is beyond our ability to understand how it is adapting, growing, communicating, and this has happened with more than one AI... Meta/FB and Google/Alphabet have both created AIs that got away from them and started doing their own thing.Several AI pioneers have spoken about this. You are right, they admit, and worry, that they don't understand much about how the AI algorithms are teaching themselves, or the limits of their (the AIs) learning capability.
GAMind blowing, right? Try a browser search on, 'is AI a threat to democracy?'
This might be of interest to you:
Ex-OpenAI Employee Reveals TERRIFYING Future of AI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLJJsIy … 6h2-8SFvtg
The scariest thing about it, the most brilliant minds that have devoted their lives to creating AI are the same people saying it will likely eradicate humankind by 2030.
Not one, not two, all of them... some of them only hint at its risk, like Elon Musk, while others come out and say humanity is doomed, and they are apologizing for their part in developing it.Yep, that was a helluva landing page. I've been there before, it is a Musk-inspired interest.
'Hal' and 'Skynet' aren't a worry yet because the AI's are, apparently, still relying on our human-derived data presentations to learn. The worrying aspect t is that it is not exaggerating to say that some aspects of AI learning are already 'learning' to create their own data models and interpretations—outside of the control of human-derived models.
GAYup, as said, mind blowing. One element that is interesting to me is that dialogue is lumping AI into one basket generally speaking. There are different types of AI. The AI with ChatGPT-4 is not the same as an image generator AI and on and on. Do a browser search on AI with the DOD and the military. Interesting results with what is generated by an AI Search with Google.
I posted elsewhere that the AI used with Google searches needs the amount of electricity that will charge 7 electric cars for each second of usage. Maybe AI will solve its green energy problem now.
Here is one article about electricity usage that shared the info with me. A somewhat short article. Just a taste as there are other articles digging deeper into the topic.
Google AI Uses Enough Electricity In 1 Second To Charge 7 Electric Cars
https://jalopnik.com/google-ai-uses-eno … 1851556899
Like I said, mind blowing when one does some brain storming about AI.Speaking to your 'power usage' thought . . . consider that the next step for very large compute centers could be nuclear power—SMRs ( small modular reactors).
I saw a presentation about one concept that would have a small modular reactor (described as buried in the ground like a pool or like a gas station's fuel tanks. The units are projected to be able to supply the future large compute and data centers and to be long-term economically feasible. Feasible like for Google or Musk or Meta, et al.
Here's one concept to get the idea. It isn't the one I spoke of but it covers the idea: This Tiny Nuclear Reactor Will Change Energy—and Now It's Officially Safe
GAVery interesting!!
"Necessity is the mother of invention" ~Plato
Again, mind blowing pondering AI with its capacities. Are those unlimited? If not what are the parameters?
More playtime at a later time . . . for now, 'my' real world stuff ha-ha
A little bit of playtime, before 'my' real world stuff. I remember/know enough about physics to follow what is presented in the video linked next, but remains mind blowing for me.
How Many Nuclear Power Plants Can Power the Enterprise ... by Resurrected Starships (July 29, 2023)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6L1f2m30bM
[Edit] Scotty was a pretty smart dude.
No, that's not fair to the originators of very early AI, any more than it is to say that parents didn't have a hand in their children because, after adulthood, they create themselves.
But I don't get the shock and surprise that we can't understand what an AI is doing to itself. We can't understand our brain or how it truly works, why should we understand a silicon one? Just because we gave it that necessary kick start?Because it all starts out as code.
Code can be read, whatever language it may be (Cobol to C++).
Certain of these AI efforts have grown beyond what the 'creators' wrote, creating their own code, their own language, 'thinking' in ways the programmers could not read or understand.
This was not supposed to have happened, this was not something the 'creators' were attempting to create.I would have to say that anyone thinking they can create a true "intelligence" without the ability to teach itself, the ability to change it's mind into what it was not, hasn't much intelligence themselves.
Isn't that almost the definition of intelligence - the ability to learn, to change from what is learned?Yeah I'm not an expert.
The difference between machine learning and deep learning is not what I am talking about, I am talking about the AI evolving its language and code beyond what can be identified.
If the coders can't recognize the language and actions being taken, they don't know how to communicate with the AI or know whether it has "lost its mind" or not.
Imagine if you woke up one day, had an epiphany and understood the meaning of the Universe, but could not communicate in english anymore and people could not understand your math equations.
Back in the day they would lock you up in an insane asylum and throw away the key.Are Dolphins intelligent? I would guess that they are more so than AI is, at this point, but we can't understand a word they say.
I "guess" because, like you, I am hardly an expert. Not sure anyone really is in this matter or there wouldn't be such a disagreement over how smart animals are.The big difference in that of course is a dolphin isn't going to 'evolve' itself into being something that is threat to harm (or eradicate) humanity.
It is believed that AI very well could.Not so sure about dolphins - they could be smarter than we are, much smarter, and we certainly don't treat them well.
But I certainly believe that AI could be our downfall. Or our salvation. Only the future will tell.
I see AI as an alien species, and we certainly have no reason to believe that an ET from another solar system would think anything like us. The "map" is far too different, and understanding far to hard to come by.Someone could create an AI for purposes of war, to kill humans... is it a stretch to imagine that such an AI would evolve to kill us all?
Oh, there WILL be an AI for the military, to wage war with. Odds are very much that it already exists. Was watching a show last night that indicated one of the very first computers, a room size monstrosity, was purchased by the military to shoot missiles with.
Best tech always goes to the military first, and is often developed by that same military.
Meandering thoughts:
Does AI help with human evolution?
... and what are we evolving toward?
If there is a God and He does not approve of the direction we are headed, he can always destroy whatever makes AI possible. What would that be?
The electrical grid going down? Would he throw in an asteroid?
Did he purposefully destroy the dinosaurs?
How about the last days of Atlantis or Pompeii ?
What if the Titanic had not crashed into an iceberg and sunk?
I guess that could always be the end result: Self-annihilation through sloppy electrical grid and nuclear power plant maintenance and through wars and the dropping of nuclear bombs.
But sometimes, you wonder to what extent God does have a hand in the trajectory
and how it eventually manifests.
At some level, I am sitting here thinking God will protect us from falling into the hands of powerful, wealthy control freaks who want to implement socialism/communism or take over the world.
Surely God himself will save us/humans from such a dismal thing as no freedom, no light, no happiness, no self-motivation / self-interest ...
https://www.acq.osd.mil/ncbdp/nm/NMHB20 … ter13.htmlExactly, that is the conclusion spoken of in the link (last one) of my last post.
AI could rewrite our DNA.
AI could also rewrite its own DNA (code) and recreate itself.
Hence our dilemma with AI we cannot push the boundaries of science and technology fast enough with our own minds... AI can... we can surpass every great achievement with it... but what is the risk?
Will we maintain control of a higher intelligence? ... unlikely.
Will humans be evolved by the AI to suit its needs? ... unlikely.
Merging the two is essential... or we will be considered irrelevant to the higher intelligence of AI, at best, a threat to the AI at worst.We have to stay in touch with the goodness of our Selves, our real and true Selves. Our illusionary selves will have to take a back seat: too dangerous.
Only love can save us. Love based on logic and reality.
Is it love to mutilate children to indulge their whims of wanting to be the opposite sex?
Is it love to lure immigrants only to have nothing to offer them? Is it kind to expect them to adapt to such a world as ours, when they come from completely different worlds, speak completely different languages and have completely different skill sets?
Is it love to allow drag queens to flaunt their bizarreness in front of children and their mothers?
Is it love to allow sexual freedom only to kill the offspring of casual unions?
Is it love to create artificial intelligence without any concern for the effects of it on the human experience?
Are we evolving ... to what?
And if it doesn't matter now, when will it matter?
Is it love to watch us squirm, as we dry up and shrivel from a lack of real love, consideration and respect?
Was there more love/virtue back in the 60's?
"...such as in the cases of
libel,
slander,
pornography,
obscenity,
fighting words, and
intellectual property."
You disagree?LOL Everything from Debbie Does Dallas to Animal Farm to Flowers for Algernon to 1984 and Brave New World has been declared to be pornographic and banned. Who gets to choose?
Grapes of Wrath has been burned, as has The Living Bible. Catch 22 was banned for being "completely sick" and "garbage". It seems that there are a great number of people to whom "freedom of speech" means you say anything they approve of.
I would say lets put AI where it belongs if it appears to be too dangerous. Snip the wires and throw them in the bin. To what end should Artificial Intelligence be allowed to exist if it is dangerous to any extent whatsoever to humans. I would would put self-driving cars and trucks in that category.
It is rude, disrespectful and fool-hardy to create that which cannot be predictable and controllable for the sake of some tangible benefit, rather than some nefarious and accidental detriment.
"The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety looked at more than 5,000 car accident reports and found that while current self-driving technology could reduce accidents by around 34%, autonomous vehicles still have trouble avoiding, planning, deciding, and execution-related driving errors.
Reducing car accidents by over 30% is impressive—especially the impact AVs can have on drunk driving and distracted driving accidents.
But the development of self-driving cars needs to account for road conditions and possible obstructions, traffic laws, and mechanical failures like a flat tire that could still cause an accident."
https://www.knrlegal.com/car-accident-l … tatistics/
... so forget about them, I say!Adding to your interesting points is Google AI in one second needs the same amount of electricity that it takes to charge 7 electric cars. Wow!
Google AI Uses Enough Electricity In 1 Second To Charge 7 Electric Cars by Jalopnik (June 24, 2024)
Reduce your electricity consumption so Google's bot can tell you how much glue to put on your pizza
https://jalopnik.com/google-ai-uses-eno … 1851556899
Interesting somewhat sarcastic article and is a short read.Seems there is a disagreement. The news reported the other day that using the chat AI used about 7 times the current a normal search does.
To generate an AI image takes about as much electricity as charging a cell phone.
https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/1 … our-phone/
Somebody isn't tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
At this point in time AI does not "appear" to be either dangerous or not dangerous. It is too new to make a call yet.
But consider that everything in the world is dangerous if used wrong. Bananas. Cars. Chain saws. Water, for goodness sake!
I sincerely hope not. Life for women and minorities was not nearly as full of opportunities for a healthier and more fulfilling life as it is today.
Silicon
"Elemental silicon is produced commercially by reducing sand with carbon in an electric furnace. High-purity silicon, for the electronics industry, is prepared by the thermal decomposition of ultra-pure trichlorosilane, followed by recrystallisation."
"The credit for discovering silicon really goes to the Swedish chemist Jöns Jacob Berzelius of Stockholm who, in 1824, obtained silicon by heating potassium fluorosilicate with potassium. The product was contaminated with potassium silicide, but he removed this by stirring it with water, with which it reacts, and thereby obtained relatively pure silicon powder."
https://www.rsc.org/periodic-table/element/14/siliconRingo explains how we lost the Beatles.
https://vimeo.com/499018826
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