America the Here and Now
In one Forum Thread I asked if America's best years were in the 60s.
Discussing leaders and a society that led to Civil Rights changes and the Peace Corps and how in the mid-60s those leaders were lost.
In another Forum Thread I hypothesized that from 91' to 9/11 the seeds of the destruction of those ideals and agendas and national identity were sewn.
How a war based on lies was sold to the American people led to the MIC fleecing America of trillions of dollars on a foreign war built on falsehoods and continual CIA instigated insurgencies throughout the Middle East.
During these times the shift to a borderless world that benefits the Financial Institutions which control the Corporations that control the International Institutional Agencies (UN, IMF, WB, WHO) began in earnest with the passing of NAFTA and China's 'favored nation status'.
This was bookended by monumental world events like the collapse of the USSR and 9/11.
That has led to this moment... this phase.
Things occurring now are harder to read, the election of Trump, the Pandemic, the escalation toward war against Russia and China both.
Some claim it was a Plandemic brought about to counter the growing populism in the Western world that was rising in opposition to the changes to their nations and societies.
Some believe it was a planned effort by China to disrupt America's global dominance and facilitate its transition to the dominant economic force world wide.
Clearly we have major problems brought about by the Information Age of the Internet.
People in the poorest parts of the world all have access to Cell Phones today, they can get information instantly from other people across the world.
They see what the West offers and they are coming to get what it offers... not just the tens of millions that have come... tens of millions more... they will come in growing numbers of millions per year until our social systems our civil society completely collapses.
When you have a slow, steady stream of water coming that is controlled, it does the farm fields good. When you have a downpour of rain that does the fields good as well. But when you have a flood it washes those fields away.
With the exception of nations like Poland that refuse to be washed away and are refusing to take in the endless millions that are coming, the nations of the Western world seem to be welcoming this deluge and wanting their cultures and norms to be washed away.
Why do you think that is?
What is the end result of the majority that live in Germany or France or America no longer being second or third generation American?
Race doesn't matter in that calculation, nor does religion. If the majority of the people living in a place are no longer a people BORN in that place, what commonality do they have?
What unites their cultural norms and beliefs, their society and civilization?"What is the end result of the majority that live in Germany or France or America no longer being second or third generation American?"
France goes back to 600 BC when it was first settled by the Greeks. Germany goes back to at least 100 AD. Poland was first settled around 400 BC. Those last two were settled by the Celts. Now, of course that is open to correction. Europeans settled the US at the earliest being 1400's. So, in essence, that is the root for their evolving cultures. Yet, I get your point.
"What unites their cultural norms and beliefs, their society and civilization?"
Who is 'their' and in what sense? All four as a group? Each singular one? Or, specific to America? And, which America and which perspective? Historical? Or, . . .
Off the top of my head, today's modern society in the U.S. with its varied cultures are united by four things only. First is the Constitution, second the laws of the land while regionally their can be differences, third our governing body, and fourth the military excluding the industrial complex associated to it.
Otherwise it is melting pot and always has been. Britain, France, Spain, and the Netherlands were the first to settle North America. So, right off the bat we have different societies from those nations with their cultures entering into the mix.
It is said recently that there are eleven separate cultural nations within the US.
This map shows how the US really has 11 separate 'nations' with entirely different cultures by the Business Insider (July 4, 2020)
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-11- … tes-2015-7
Of course, you presented to negate race and religion, though I know you know as well as myself and others those two could be said are paramount to the US's society and varied cultures. Matter of fact some cultures are founded on those two.
Frankly, I am a member of several cultures and societies. I think everyone is, though can only speak for myself. I live in San Diego County, California where there is a strong Hispanic culture. I have assimilated into that while maintaining my heritage as a military brat with a broad spectrum of societal and cultural influences forming my person hood today.
I was a long haired bearded hippie performance car/hot rod enthusiast quasi intellectual or thought so anyway who turned wrenchs with a solid reputation that could roll his tool box anywhere to work from '73 - '80 [Edit: Age 19-26] while maintained my conservative formed heritage. That was my 'first' culture I belonged to as an 'adult'. Oh yeah, I voted Republican always while attended a evangelical church, yet drank beer and smoked pot.
From their I probably went through at least five different cultural settings with their nuances while as stated was a member of several simultaneously. Yes, of course, the foundation formed from birth to shall we say 18 is still paramount today while at times those beliefs are challenged and some truths that have been revealed to me through education as well as enlightenment.
An example is yourself with your short exposes on world/foreign affairs relational to the US causing me to dig deep. In respect to culture this very forum with its participants has its own unique culture.
Well, a little wandering and I was in the mood to write. I hope I contributed something of value. Maybe not.The issue is assimilation.
There is a deliberate effort to refrain from forcing assimilation, from forcing those who come to be beholden to the same laws and same expectations we have for citizens that were born here.
The second issue is the numbers... a manageable amount is good for societies... a flood transforms or over-runs the society that was originally there.
You could say the European flood of constant migration wiped away what we term the Native American population that was here hundreds of years ago.
This in essence could be the fate of the Western Nations that allow immigrants to outnumber the population that was born here and learned our laws, social norms, and expectations.
Such break downs, such differences become more obvious in how the newcomers view something as mundane as ducks in a park. Americans leave them alone, migrants from Haiti view them as food.
This is not to be insulting, this highlights a difference.
Another example, Americans are taught to consider sea turtles a protected species, they go out of their way to protect them in Florida... Haitians will catch and eat them.
Haiti is a very rough country, there were nearly 5,000 homicides, that were reported, in 2023. Gangs control Haiti which has become much like Somalia was (is?) a decade ago.
Meeting the Gangs that Control Haiti
https://www.npr.org/2024/05/23/11969811 … trol-haiti
Who Are the Gangs That Have Overrun Haiti’s Capital?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/07/worl … ainer.html
So, if you overrun a region with Haitians, you will have the same things occurring that occur now in Haiti... they will not assimilate, the worst elements will take control and implement the same social "norms" you see today in Haiti.
And the government assistance and lack of imposing law and order on them will invite the worst elements... literal mafia like gangs to control the populace and control those government resources given so freely.
We are, in short, funding our own destruction.
Bringing in desirables that share some of our American values is a good thing.
Allowing in the cartels and gangs from places like Ecuador and Haiti will get the same results produced by them in Haiti and Ecuador.
I imagine we may have some new versions of Al Capone and Lucky Luciano rise to prominence in some parts of the country in the years ahead... we will be lucky if this clash of cultures remains that civil.Understood. Yes, agreement, illegal migration brings a complex 'set' of challenges to our governing body, our society at large as well as specific to region/state/county/city/rural areas, and the contrast and/or conflict with the established culture(s). But, I ask what rather than whom instigated the challenge/problem?
Is it our legal asylum laws enacted by our very own congress? It is human nature to take advantage of A, B, or C to survive. That is what those people are doing when it comes down to the nitty-gritty. If we want change in my view change the law. Until then build the wall or at least increase the Border Patrol personnel and give them the resources they need and increase surveillance of our border with technology and air such as helicopters to catch the nefarious ones that don't qualify for asylum.
Notation: More than likely what follows, though is wandering, will be misinterpreted to mean I am in defense of the challenges of illegal immigrants today when it is not.
As an aside off that topic what is the expected period of time for an immigrant legal or otherwise to assimilate to an accepted level? I would have to research like examples shall we say the Irish or Italians?
Certainly the Italians overran our American cuisine as an element of culture tossing out the idea of assimilation. They also fortified Catholicism as well as a sect of the Irish. Religion is an element of culture.
Remember what culture is. One definition is "culture encompasses religion, food, what we wear, how we wear it, our language, marriage, music and is different all over the world". Read world to our nation/state/county/city/rural area/neighborhood.
I think the most challenging and notable is language. The Irish spoke English. The Italians did not I presume at first. Yet, over how many years when it was natural for all.
Here where I live being bilingual (English/Spanish) has its importance as the saying goes worth its weight in gold. In Los Angeles I suspect at least one Asian language may suit that same theme.
In my neighborhood with legal immigrants (Mostly Mexican) who don't speak English most of whom are grand parents or a relative like an uncle or aunt or perhaps wife speaking a form of Spanish is common.
It is easy to spot them because of how they respond when I say hello and something in English. Their limited knowledge of it leads to them responding with canned replies and a smile. However, I speak enough Spanglish to at least form an informal relationship with some.
I will say I appreciate getting Tamales during holiday season from two particular grandmothers. M'm . . . M'm They're home made.
However, that does not speak to your example of the Haitians. Yet, I know you know as well as myself their has not been time to assimilate to our culture or the culture where they are living. Yet, I fully understand the challenge they present.
And, it contrasts where I live as my neighborhood is not being overrun. I can't speak for the San Diego metro area closer to the border. Last month the San Diego border topped all other troubled border areas for crossings and admissions. The total arrests were around 58,000. They are bused to charity centers or to public transportation terminals and dropped off. Where they go from there I don't really know.
But, how do we judge the assimilation of the Hispanics. They assimilate probably just fine in Hispanic neighborhoods. I don't know how they are received.You have a good heart.
If you were making the decisions and running the country it would be a much better place.
But we have psychopaths and con-artists running our country... worse, in the halls of DC we have zealots like Victoria Nuland who succor within for decades making the policies and pushing the decision makers that have marched us to the precipice of direct conflict with the nation that has the largest nuclear arsenal in the world.
And the media covers for them, banging the drums as we march to our downfall.
I had to delete a post longer than this one after considering it some more.Appreciated, while a good heart does have it downfalls if not mastered.
Frankly, the immigration challenge is serious with consequential damage being done in some respects. So, in essence, I get where you are coming from.
However, in my view, immigration legal or otherwise in the big picture is manageable. My concern is AI. If you want to have a mind blowing experience dig deep into it. I mean dig deep!! To do that investigate anything that you know and 'imagine'. In essence it has potential of good, however the evil's it can cause is much, much greater! It is progressing at a rate that it is overwhelming and I question if it can be reined in.One thing I can tell you, that I know from firsthand information and experience, is that much of what occurs was planned, sometimes many years in advance.
The invasion of Iraq for instance was diligently planned for at the highest levels, it was a matter of when not if. The reasons and the strategy well worked out, and then the excuse for the conflict was drummed up when needed and sold to America.
The 'Migration Crisis' was discussed and planned for and outlined more than a decade ago... things like the UN Global Compact on Migration and Agenda 2030 lay down the outline for a borderless 'Western' world and the dissolvement of those societies.
President Obama Breaks Immigration Impasse with Sweeping Executive Action - 2014
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article … ive-action
President Obama's 2014 State of the Union Address Highlights Immigration and Voting Rights
https://www.carnegie.org/news/articles/ … ng-rights/
The U.S. Supreme Court and Obama’s Immigration Actions
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/us-sup … on-actions
Remarks by President Obama at Leaders Summit on Refugees
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/th … t-refugees
Its not a new problem... it is now a well funded problem, with some of the wealthiest institutions, individuals as well as government funded NGOs that work to help millions to make it to the US and EU.
It isn't pretty, but its planned.
The problem I have is how our politicians play it up, act as if they don't know what is going on. Or lie to us that there aren't hundreds of thousands of people being flown in from foreign nations and being spread throughout the country.
The covert efforts and the lies... when you know the efforts are planned and coordinated.
Take for example the one town in Ohio that 20,000 migrants from Haiti have happened to end up at in just a few short years, this wasn't by accident, this was a choice made at the highest levels:
Migration data portal - The bigger picture
https://www.migrationdataportal.org/
U.S. Migration Policy Overview
https://www.state.gov/briefings-foreign … y-overview
That is why there is a big difference in choices between Trump and anyone else.
I won't bring up the charts, they are easy to find, the amount of crossings went down to all time lows under Trump... and are at record breaking highs under Biden.
Harris like Biden will continue to support UN Compact on Migration and International Law, etc. etc. ... and here is the dilemma all Western Nations are facing today... their populations want the immigration to stop... but immigration is only going to be escalated from here on.
And the politicians know this... Harris knows this... Trump knows this.
One candidate will try and slow the deluge, the other is the frontman for those intent on escalating those numbers even more.Thank you for sharing, Ken! I will look into the links later as I know they emphasize the points you are making. I think you should know you are not the only person who uses YouTube productions and/or podcast for information. I don't use 'X' but have two Facebook accounts. One for family and friends and another for all the other stuff where I see the political junk. With YouTube and podcast I usually listen while at times am reading this and that simultaneously.
Have you looked into chaos theory ever? Have you looked into the 'Cusp of Catastrophe' ever. If not sometime peek at it to get the conceptual idea and then relate it to national and world affairs. Entropy is interesting too.Same, I am usually doing something else while listening to YouTube.
None of those links are to Youtube however, most require reading and/or awareness of the topic(s) discussed.
This isn't a new topic... like I said, what is going on today had its foundation put down back in 2012-2015.
I wrote about it several years ago... I just reactivated an old article on it if you are interested in reading it, I will leave it up for a while so you can glance at it: https://hubpages.com/politics/The-End-of-America
It is pretty obvious what I stated there is coming to fruition.
As I often say, less time listening to Main Stream Media and more time spent reading UN releases and WH releases and foreign news reports and you will have a far better idea where things are going and why.
"One candidate will try and slow the deluge,"
The one that is not part of the deep state machine.
The one that is for The People ...
The one that is truly for the mother and child.
The one that is for, (either consciously or unconsciously,) the universal child, born and alive, which has particular needs at particular stages.
The one that is for, (again, either consciously or unconsciously, perhaps on an intuitional level,) the way things were designed by nature and nature's God.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7q3FDDmqmAOr as simple as the slogan America First.
American Citizens prioritized over all the world's people.
America the Nation put ahead of International Corporate interests.
Attempting to salvage National Sovereignty and American exceptionalism and twisting the arms of corporations to Make in America rather than avoiding taxation by manufacturing or HQing outside of America.
In Today's world it is becoming the norm for Corporations to have more power and authority than National governments... this is the worst of all situations (other than outright tyranny like they have in Venezuela)... as politicians will cater to the most powerful Lobby groups, like AIPAC, and where we put aside what is in the best interests of Americans and America for the likes of BlackRock or Shell or Big Pharma.
I enjoyed reading this forum post. Ken and Tim, both of you are right from your argumental angles. I feel the same thing here in India. Our original culture all got washed out due to foreign invasions and settlers for the last 1000 years.
We all know that changes are inevitable and nothing is permanent. So, let us build a Universal Culture and Economy that benefits all humanity.In order to do that, you have to get the population to share in that same goal of a Universal Culture.
If you allow the more enlightened and civil culture to be torn down by the more violent, hostile, and demanding incoming culture this will not occur.
If you have people who are determining the course of your culture/society despising their own culture/society they will tear it down in spite without having a truly better 'Universal Culture' to replace it.
Our enlightened and elite leadership may look on these changes with the best of intentions and hopes. It may all work out... or it may not.
I have spent time with Haitian migrants (96 Cuban/Haitian Migrant Crisis) and been to other nations that do not share our values (IE Egypt, Somalia) ... I do have some experience with which to draw my conclusions.
People who cannot relate to each other in language, habit or belief will not be able live in any kind of harmony. They will not care to live in harmony. They will become disgruntled, depressed and rebellious. There will be no peace or opportunity to become robust in body, mind or soul.
If there is anything to unite them they will have to try very hard to follow the ways of a God-realized master such as Christ or Buddha, etc. To live according to a precept such as, "Do unto your Neighbor as You would have Him do Unto You," requires constant discipline and effort. Not all have this ability and in fact give up on ever having this ability for many reasons; laziness and selfishness being two.
The human being needs to be in a group or tribe which provides fellowship and instruction for living the best way possible for the sake of harmony of the whole and individual happiness. It is an education which starts in early childhood beginning with the mother and child. Eventually, the father must step in. And then society. Early childhood and the stages of human development is the key for developing successful cultures, societies and civilizations.Isolation of Difficulties extracted from what Ken wrote:
"1. Corporations having more power / authority than National governments.
2. Politicians putting aside what is in the best interests of Americans and America for Corporations such as:
BlackRock or
Shell
Big Pharma
3) Politicians catering to the most powerful Lobby groups such as:
AIPAC."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIPAC (- looks like quite a can of worms.)
Adam Smith wrote:
"There is no art which one government learns of another than that of draining money from the pockets of the people."
https://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/smit … 206-02_810Benefits generated by a (truly) civil society:
Individual Liberty, (protected by laws)
Limited Government
Free Markets
Boundaries of Moral Codes
Loyalty to Country and Citizenry
Protection of Country and Citizenry
Peace
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