This Exerpt taken from my hub "A Stern Message to our Health Reform Politicians"
"They steal our tax dollars without representation, run up debt in back room deals and God knows if our GDP will be enough to clean up our debt even within a hundred years. You see if Bernie Madoff would have been an US Senator in charge of pushing through our national health care reform he'd be the commissions "financier savior" through savvy creative financing, which would not be unveiled by the people easily. And the health reform budgetary commission would protect his illegal acts. But since he went rogue and didn't pay taxes on all of those billions he swindled, much the same way our government steals our tax dollars through frivolous back room deal for bills, he was sentenced for life. Bernie should have known better and given Uncle Sams mafia a piece of the pie for protection. Only through government mafia union ties can you be protected in the greatest government ponzi scheme of all time. You see, Bernie got greedy; he didn't play by the Nebraska corn husk deal methodology rules. As Arnold Schwarzenegger said, Nelson got the corn; California go the husk.
Sounds like a back door ponzi scheme to me. Not sanctioned by the people for the people, paying debt with more debt, not able to make good if the debt was called in all at once. Well, one state would benefit off the back of the Nation's tax payers with a deal like this. So in a small way, the corn husk back door deal is more generous than Bernie's ponzi scheme. However, I stand by the following statement; mark my words, somewhere down the road Bernie will funnel billions of dollars into one of the partys campaign buckets which will buy him a pardon (like others pardoned before him). And once the pardon occurs, you'll then know the extent of the government corruption if you've been wearing blinders all these years. This act alone should let a ray of truth sunshine in.
Treasonous Acts by our politicians will soon have to explain their activies... Especially if Obama can't get the 1Trillion dollar plus health reform through the pipelines. Alot of government mafia I owe you's are due. Best to pay the piper now by coming clean!
Excuse my ignorance but what exactly is a Ponzi scheme? I tried to get it from your post but it is still not clear to me.
And just a by-the-way - wouldn't it be nice to have new style governments that could prosecute all our various nation's traitors, then there might be a reason to bring back old sparky - another thread going on here.
"A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to separate investors from their own money or money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned. The Ponzi scheme usually entices new investors by offering returns other investments cannot guarantee, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. The perpetuation of the returns that a Ponzi scheme advertises and pays requires an ever-increasing flow of money from investors to keep the scheme going.
The system is destined to collapse because the earnings, if any, are less than the payments to investors. Usually, the scheme is interrupted by legal authorities before it collapses because a Ponzi scheme is suspected or because the promoter is selling unregistered securities. As more investors become involved, the likelihood of the scheme coming to the attention of authorities increases. While the system eventually will collapse under its own weight, the example of Bernard Madoff illustrates the ability of a Ponzi scheme to delude both individual and institutional investors as well as securities authorities for long periods: Madoff's variant of the Ponzi Scheme stands as the largest financial investor fraud in history committed by a single person. Prosecutors estimate losses at Madoff's hand totalling $64.8 billion."
In otherwords, with our government spending our tax dollars... They create bills against debt owed (~13Trillion) by borrowing dollars from China for example. They promise the investors (tax payers) a return on investment and when called to account for the expenditures (investigative commissions) can't explain where a big chunk of the money went; also a big chunck of the money goes to growing government jobs... So you don't receive the services you thought you'd receive, etc... Oh and to make it even better, government always promises to balance the budget, but it continues to grow government each year like it has for over 50 years.
And if say China, like investors called Bernie Madoff asked the US to repay all investment dollars at once it could not be done, because there is far more debt (I owe you's) than securities held in our National treasury.
Thanks for clear reply - I got it.
Without thinking too much - isn't this the situation of the whole country for the last 20 years that the US has had a trade deficit? As I say elsewhere it looks about time that the bases of our economic models should be re-jigged for a different world model.
If I wanted to make the most money I could in this lifetime I would network with polititicians. Those con men can channel more money to their chosen friends than any mafia group ever and it's rarely ever prosecuted. What a racket. Don't ever forget. Follow the money and you will meet up with the real criminals.
Is it true... Those with the most money win
This has been going on since the beginning of time. I don't care what side your on, political party, government, nation... As long as there is a government; human greed, power, control and corruption tend to hurt diplomacy. But without government there is anarchy...
What is the solution to keep our politicians honest when those that feed off of these characteristics are in charge of our lives?
It's obvious the U.S. government cannot pay off trillions in national debt -- ever. So national bankruptcy is not out of the question. Other currencies are not doing well either, with the British pound very close to collapse according to a CNN article today (2.27.10). Also, the Euro, presently being used by 16 countries, is in danger of collapse. Further, a second wave of double digit inflation is predicted for later this year. So what to do? Complain? Good luck. Personally, I am entrenching and slowly dropping out. I took Social Security retirement early 'cause it may not be there tomorrow (the Ponzi Syndrome). I've paid off all debts as the downfall of many Americans will be debt. No, I'm not buying guns and survival equipment. But when entire nations face bankruptcy -- and at present there are about seven -- with other countries looking at trillion dollar shortfalls, it's time to realize the common man has no prayer. Right now Obama is a desperate man. He's using the only tactics he knows -- Chicago style closed-door negotiating via favors -- to get things done. In the end, I think all nations will either agree to "forgive" all debts and start over, or certain countries, like China, will emerge as the new power mongers controlling supply and demand. Of course, if we held out for the impending global disaster of 2012, where the poles are reversed and all but a chosen few die a horrible mangled death, we could enjoy life a bit more.
You are a smart man to pay off your debt because that's where I believe, like you Uncle Sam will come collecting. You'll also see the IRS come in like a vengence to pick up collections. I have recommended for many years people collect SSN as soon as they become eligible. The current value of the dollar will always be more valuable than the future value of the dollars. I believe there is only one true safe investment with your investment dollars an asset that can not easily be stollen by our Fed government... That investment is in raw land. Think about it, tons of people are buying gold which seems to be a good investment, but needs to be exchanged back to currency to make use of it. Land on the other hand, even if you don't have a home on it, you can get special administrative permits to live out of a trailor, crow crops, livestock, lease land, parcel, construction yard, harvest natural resources, etc. So even if you can't turn it right away, it can be used to make a living, a place to live... Etc.
Gold on the other hand, I fear the Market Makers and Government Mongers will find some way to excise capitol tax's above and beyond the capitol gains. The Chicago political mongers will work a deal with China to make it lucrative, or Ponzi lucrative to continue the gravey train if they can get away with it. Tea parties and such will definitly make it more challenging to hide the facts from the people.
The impending 2012 disaster... Game over if it comes to pass.
This time next year we shall see a massive exodus of government officials to Paraguay; you know, George W Bush's 98,000 acre compound his little daughter, Jenna, secured for him in fall of 2006? Yup, South America will be the new world for W and his thugs after the U.S. is pillaged.
Didn't know about 98k acre in South America. Well, then I suppose a Monarch can then become king and supreme ruler. Isn't that the American gangster way? Reminds me of being on a cruise ship, it springs a leak and the crew/Captain bail leaving the passengers to fend for themselves. Yes, during the exodus the rats will be discovered.
You may have something there if it's true. Bush is safe in Texas. They love the bastard there.
Anyone who has actually READ the Constitution of the United States of America will immediately recognize that our federal government is bloated and unconstitutional.
Those who listen to what the Supreme Court have to say will say things like "in the 1954 Blah vs. Blah Supreme Court case..." and argue that everything is Constitutional.
DEMAND that your state government stand up to the federal government and Federal Reserve. Demand your state nullify and interpose the unconstitutional actions of the federal government.
The real problem is not 'Democrats vs. Republicans', it's liberty vs. fascism.
It's all about back room deals, kickbacks and votes. The constitution is barely alive. Our states do need to stand strong and tell the federal government, there job is "not" to continue enslaving us into poverty. Their job is to protect and secure our freedoms which they've done the exact opposite for decades. Somehow, we the people allowed these thugs (gov't mafia) to ponzi their way into office. And the outrageous thing about it... We continue to fall for the "quid pro quo," ponzi carrots (pork barrel spending) as voters... Only until the thieves in Washington can no longer make good on their false promises.. Which is real obvious now.
We the people have been much of the problem as well, yes our hands are not clean. Our gov't has been playing good/bad cop political tactics to make it appear our politicians care about us as they pacify one group of demographics at the expense of others through ponzi deals.
Now look at our government, they can't cover their hedge bets... The ponzi jig is up and the American people are not going to take the lies anymore! Time to clean house and remove the rats!
I hesitate to post, but, alas, my fingers are typing...
I do not agree with much of what has been said here. I do not agree that our gov't and the tax system, etc. = a Ponzi scheme (it just doesn't follow, logically). I DO beleive that there is a serious problem, that our national "debt" is a farce, and that our entire system of money has completely lost its intention and value.
I recently read a VERY interesting but VERY odd e-book (poorly written) about our money, etc. I even emailed the author later and had an on-again off-again exchange/debate with her. For those of you interested in all of this, I believe you will find her ebook fascinating, with the theories it postulates. It can be found here:http://www.scribd.com/doc/2064074/Cancel-Credit-Card-Debt-Defeat-Taxes
I am in no way invested in that author, marketing her book, etc. And I DO suggest that you do NOT follow her end-link. BUt I'd LOVE to have a conversation with others of you who take the time to read her ebook, to see what YOU think and to see if it changes any of your above posted opinions.
I understand your hesitation and praise you for posting your opinion, considering the board in which you posted your opinion.
The fact that you believe there is a serious problem with our currency "debt" tells me you also believe there is something seriously wrong with our government officials and Washington. Whether or not one believes that their logic drives them to a gov't mafia, ponzi, conspiracy, wealth redistribution, social engineering, progressive socialism, marxist agenda labeling, etc... We will all never agree on what caused the problem, what office, person, etc. Heck, our own government just points fingers and can't pin point the problem. I believe Ponzi Ops has just as good of a change of being a contribution to our national debt as any other "cause and effect conspiracy scenario." I do not believe everything that's wrong with our government is happenstance. History shows a pattern of corruption within our politics. And many of our officials seem to be above the law with special priviledges Joe Public does not have. How about the politicians that don't pay their taxes (given a pass?). If I didn't pay my taxes, all Holy hell would knock on my door. Heck, our Hollywood stars are above the law, so why not our politicians.
The point is, we all know something is seriously wrong. My fear is "and I'm sure" there are many other rats in Washington much more corrupt than Bernie Madoff using the same age old ponzi scheme back room tactics of "quid pro quo" empty promises. I know Bernie was a fund's manager not a politician. But the lie tactics to customers/voters with half truths about how our Tax dollars simply vanish.... Our gov't officials can't account for how many billions of tax dollars from the last 800Billion shovel ready jobs Bill? Last I heard was 300Billion). I don't know about you, but that's a lot of dough Ponzi'd out of our treasury. How is that any different than investor money that disappeared through the likes of Bernie Madoff? Maybe one difference, Bernie was one man where it was easy to point fingers toward a thief. Our government, it is not so easy to do this.
It seems each week in the news we find out more about corrupt officials, bills money that can't be accounted for, money wasn't used to create jobs, etc.... And now our government needs more of our tax dollars for yet another jobs bill, money for health reform that will only be a fraction of the expected services. Their track record shows you'll bet government services... A portion of the promise, or no portion at all. After all, it takes lots of money to cover lies and deception while filling politicians special interest pockets and theirs. Are they on ludes, or smoking crack?
How long has this deception been going on? I'm sure it's been going on for many decades and now we're just starting to get it... It makes sense corruption has had it's hand in our national debt. This is not to say that our government hasn't provided needed services for it's citizen's. It's done that in spades in many cases (there are honest politicians, but bad has trumped over good in recent years).
The Bad "corrupt officials" have begun taking outrageous unfair cuts to get the job done at all costs, because they now know the jig is up as the rats are now running out of Washington to clean their hands of any wrong doing. Out of sight, out of mind... No way, we will hunt you down and incarcerate you... It's only a matter of time and we the people will clean house.
No hands in government are clean... Our elected officials have allowed government corruption in the people's business to occur for many years. Government officals voted into office have been deceiving and misappropriating our tax dollars for decades. This explains the outrageous national debt. Only through passing health reform, the government hopes to appease and buy more time at covering the trillions of dollars that have been swindled through the years buy our government. And no, I don't believe our IRS officals are clean. I think any government agencies top administrators know of corrupt business practises and back room deals. Yes, I believe our government has exercised in many Ponzi "like" deception Operations... Our government is more discrete with it's deception only because it can provided services to the people to buy off the deception while running up debt. Well this is not working anymore because the bank is broke and so is our economy. We are now on life support with a economic glass ceiling. And that's not good enough!
Only through our own personal experiences, sounding off, discussions, tea parties and political enlightment can we begin to fix the problems that greed, power and corruption have created for our nation debt, including the removal and incarceration of corrupt officials. We can all agree our debt is rediculous and someone must account for this outrage. How did our government allow the people's treasury to be robbed for so many years. "Our debt is not "just the result" of honest appropriations to better serve the American people!" No, it has been for a long time about greed, power and control. The monarchs, queens and kings made a nice takeover attempt by taking away our weath to make the poor poorer, but it didn't work before discovery. Hopefully, it's not to late to clean up this mess.
I wont reply to any of what's been said, but I do believe in the corruption.
should you have the three plus hours, watch this bit of video...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … 0256183936
I found it quite informative.
THE HEALTHCARE REFORM BILL SPECIAL
On Saturday 3/20/10 LIVE from Washington EXCLUSIVLY on Fox News cable at 10:00am to 12:00 ET time
SHOWN NO OTHER PLACE BUT ON FOX NEWS
A SPECIAL program regarding HEALTHCARE REFORM '' LIVE AND UNCUT '' direct from Washington , hosted by Neil Cavuto.
Members of both parties will be interviewed.Maybe we will get a separation of fact, fiction or the truth of what's in the bill.
FOX NEWS '' WE REPORT YOU DECIDE '' '' FAIR AND BALANCED ''
Try not to miss the program, it's for Democrats, Republicans, Independents, Conservatives, Liberals and all Americans.
Looking forward to comments.
Thanks for the heads up. Hopefully more light will shine through.
You must be dillusional. Fox new is a joke. Family Guy is pretty funny though.
Can you guys believe Nancy is leaning toward passing this bill without the House members having to vote on it??
Great Post woodmarc.
The definition of a ponzi scheme is an investment where the payouts for earlier investors come from the payments of later investors.
The National Debt is a government run Ponzi for the rich.
Social security is a Ponzi scheme for everyone else!
The government will eventually default on its obligations. Either by not paying out when it is supposed to, or by debasing the currency at Weimar Republic levels.
Ponzi Schemes are voluntary. This is a mandated takeover of American Assets.
The plan is to let the debt build to the point it can not be repaid. We are already there.
Stuff the economy with newly printed money. Get everyone believing that recovery is possible so they will go out and borrow every last cent they can to pay off the debt they already owe. Sure it can't work... it's not possible... but that doesn't matter. The wealthy don't need money, they need your assets.
The final foreclosure is coming. Complete and total job loss... no way to pay any of your debt. And the title to your assets shifting to the Banks.
And who owns the Banks? Whomever owns the Stock in the Bank. And there lies the Title to All of Americas Assets.
Then a new plan is put into place where a new currency is created... and Electronic Currency which can be controlled completely by the Wealthy Elite.
They will then rent back to you your assets at whatever price they determine.
No upper class, no middle class, no lower class. No opportunity, No Freedom.
The only people enjoying life will be those at the very top. The rest will be controlled in a police state.
That's the future if Americans don't wake up.
Good insight Mike. One only needs to follow the logic of current affairs and review just a bit of history to understand elites have been working very hard for many years to take what is rightfully ours away to further line their pockets by stealing peasant assets.
It's hilarious that most of you are starting to complain now, when 9 years ago, the spending and waste of war was starting to cause this country to spiral into debt and lead to the real estate crisis through "the free market". Yeah, it was a free market alright, with no one managing the market. Greed takes over and bankrupts a country. Now the same thing is happening with the health care system. For an example, both my kids were recently given the wrong needle. I was told they would not charge me or insurance. Did they charge? Hell yes. Why, because no one is accountable. They are getting paid to screw up. That is a great system. That is why it keeps skyrocketing. That, and they have to keep making more profit for shareholders. You get more freedom of care in Canada, where you can go to any doctor you want, instead of only those who insurance says. How is that freedom? When you can get denied and have no recourse, how is that freedom? Then, you have the freedom to mortgage your house...
That deal was probably to help with the constipation from the protein shakes.
Since our Gov't Ponzi Scheme is built on deception to rob the American people by stealing our assets, the Tea Party citizens know all too well what's going on and are not standing for it.
Get ready for more political fireworks. Just in, conservative radio is talking about health reform repeal. And one way to make this change is for conservatives to run this November with impeachment as a solution to reverse the damage done to our economy before it's irreversible. Since Obama would just veto any repeal on health care reform... Apparently impeachment is the only way our national debt can begin to balance and bring back capitol founding father Constitutional principles.
Regardless of what's right, or wrong... Now absolutely nothing will get done for the people... Regardless of what one thinks about health reform, cap/trade, etc... So divided is the nation, fear & unstability by our current political system into Novembers election will no doubt create further kaos, race conflict, fear and further separation/degradation of our people and economies health. What is the political solution(s) to all that ails our nation?
I submit, "in principle" this is the greatest Ponzi Scheme ever devised by the elites backed by the full extent of our laws. Unfortunately, as history dictates, we the people will fall asleep at the wheel again. Hopefully, this time it's not too late to right this enormous wrong.
Memo to U.S. Congress: prima facie evidence that Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld committed treason on 9/11
April 2, 12:08 AM Seattle Exopolitics Examiner Alfred Lambremont Webre
"A Memorandum to the U.S. Congress presented to then incoming Chairman of the U.S. House of Representatives Judiciary Committee, Rep. John Conyers, Jr. (D-Mich), following the November 2006 mid-term elections sets out prima facie evidence for the appointment of an independent prosecutor to prosecute then U.S. President George W. Bush, Vice President Richard B. Cheney, and Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld and numerous Jane and John Does for treason under Article III (3) of the U.S. Constitution for acts committed on September 11, 2001."
Unless you start here, anything else you have to say is moot.
Ok, let's start there. That is BS and only a fool would not see it.
I believe that creative financing "Ponzi" regardless of mandated or voluntary manipulation to deceive the American people has been going on a lot longer than any of us have been alive. Our present is a product of our past, which there is plenty of blame for all governments to take responsibilities for their political endeavors.
Thank God I dont live in America if that is your attitude towards government. If government withdrew from their role in running the health care system I guess there would not be one. Would there be Universities and colleges to train doctors ? No
I shate to say it but it would be a return to the Dark Ages where only the very rich would get less than perfect care. All the rest of you would be dying much younger say aroun 45. Have gratitude that for once the government has atreested the run away scheme and regulated Inuriance companies so that all Americans can get treatment, By making all that can pay pay the health care load is spread and as a result premiums no longer need to grow exponentially...
The answer to an ongoing deficit is obvious and simple.
Raise taxes on the rich.
Consider that the richest 10% own 70% of the net worth of the USA. So an inheritance of 50% on JUST that class of people would retire the national debt in a few decades. Put the same tax rate on capital gains as you do on regular income and you take care of the deficit.
Regarding the national debt the problem is a lack of will, not a lack of money. Politicians on both sides of the Congressional aisle kowtow to their invisible masters.
I disagree with you on tax the rich as I payed more taxes this year then any year of my life and I am retired making less than 40000 a year.
This new game is tax everyone to the hilt.
think about it
Tax the rich for everything, just wondered when the rich takes their money and decides to leave the country.
The poor can't pay taxes ,already 50% of the people don't pay taxes.
I guess the middle class will be forced to pay more to grow the government.
The government will collapse because there isn't enough money coming into the treasury.The government can print more money, inflation is nothing to worry about in the Obama administration.
Are you saying that 50% of people don't work?
Because if you work, you pay FICA...more than fed and state income taxes combined.
Stop that fallacy that people don't pay taxes...it's not true.
And Doug is right. Hedge-fund managers who "earn" 3 billion pay tax at 15%.
A teacher who earns $65,000 pays at 35%....how does that make sense"
The wealthy have been given this country...time to take it back.
Corporations, off-shore accounting, moving every job overseas for profit...killing our enviromnet for profit, letting people die for profit...
Enough is enough.
You want to do away with corporations? Good thinking
And you don't want business moving overseas but your attitude suggests exactly the sort of thing that drives them overseas. Good thinking
And Barry--it has been like the dark ages here....but no more.
We do have a great country--if we stick to our ideals.
Those who want to live like Kings and Queens at the expense of others can always go to Dubai with Cheney.
This is a country for the tired, poor, huddled masses.
Question: How does one keep checks and balances on these huge bills being written?
Last I heard, the ~800b jobs bill; 400b could not be accounted for... Was this a Ponzi payoff for past players that came due?
How does 400b taxpayer dollars disappear? And then you hear no more about it (funny money I guess).
When my checking account is 1.00 off my wife the budget hawk is all over that.
by Cat R 10 years ago
What is the reason for our country's gigantic amount of debt?What do you think causes the most 'damage'?- Illegal Immigrants and the loss of taxes/amount of money paid to them for welfare type programs (that are not covered by the taxes they pay since they don't pay taxes)?- The money spend on...
by ptosis 4 years ago
Why is Social Security not a Ponzi scheme? Or is it?A Ponzi scheme is a fraud. Nobody is being misled by SS & is the morally the polar opposite of a Ponzi scheme. Certain people make bogus claims that SS is a Ponzi scheme. The reason that SS isn't a Ponzi scheme is...
by crazymom3 8 years ago
What is the government doing to pay off the national debt? How is it being paid off?
by SheriSapp 6 years ago
Why do the liberals insist on more deficit spending when the nation is BROKE?Why do the liberals REFUSE to understand that the deficit spending MUST be stopped or the nation will become premanently bankrupt?
by wacknuts 12 years ago
And what does it mean for us?
by IndiePharm 10 years ago
I've recently joined JBP and I like the concept, I've even talked about it in my latest hub. How do you feel about similar sites and generally about the concept of making money online?
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