Democrat Lawmakers Wish

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Sab Ohposted 14 years ago
...for Obama to shut up, I'd imagine. He was on the tube today demanding reconciliation and essentially pushing a health reform bill that the public doesn't want down that public's throat. I imagine a lot of dems are looking to November and wishing he'd just shut up already.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You could lead by example TK.
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Obama was put into office for him to pass health-care reform and so on.
  
  Likewise, he is telling the House to pass the Senate Health care bill and use the majority to make changes to it.
  
  Obama was not elected into office to let the Republicans hold up the agenda for improving the U.S.
  
  I know Obama wants bipartisan. However, bipartisan is not working because it takes two to tangle and the Republicans are refusing to come aboard.
  
  So he is telling the Democrats to execute and produce results.
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why does the falsehood continually see the light of day? Once again, now pay attention, its gonna go by fast, REPUBLICANS CANNOT STOP THE DEMOCRATS FROM ANYTHING! THEY ARE THE MINORITY AND DEMOCRATS BY THEMSELVES CAN PASS WHATEVER BILL THEY WANT!
  
  The smart Democrats do not want this crazy bill to pass, they kind of like being elected officials!
  
  That is all, carry on...
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ever heard of filibusters, amendments, and challenging provisions?
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Congress is beyond that. All that is required to pass the Senate health care bill is for the House to vote for it. The fillibuster is to prevent the end of debate, but debate is already over.
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Pass both the Senate health care bill and the reconciliation bill (which will make changes to the Senate bill)...
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Rochelle Frankposted 14 years ago
So he is forcing them to say what they think? Or prompting reporters to actually ask them where they stand? yeah, I guess that could be a problem.
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bgpappaposted 14 years ago
He basically said get off your a@@ democrats and do your job. For once, he acted like a leader.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He's going to lead a whole boatload of dems right out of office in Nov. then follow them in 2012.
  
  What a leader.
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And your proof for this? Or is this just wishful thinking?
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wait and see. I hope you like the taste of crow
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JON EWALLposted 14 years ago
HUBBERS
OBAMA CALLED HIS PLAN '' HEALTH REFORM INSURANCE '' SOUNDS DIFFERENT THEN HEALTHCARE REFORM TO ME.

Actually his new plan is not too different except adding some republican ideas.What he didn't tell the American people is that he will cut medicare $500 billion,raise taxes $250 billion and mandate insurance to everyone and tax those who don't buy insurance for starters.
Collect taxes for 3 years before you can get benefits of government run healthcare.
Forcing everyone to buy healthcare could be unconstitutional,time will tell.
Congress and the president still don't get it ! Obama said ''we need to increase the pool so that the cost can come down''.
1.When people lose their jobs they drop out of the pool (unemployment at 10% )which increases insurance cost to insurance companies and eventually to the client
2.Presently medicare cuts the doctors charges 20%.The recent approved Job Bill ( $10billion ),medicare will cut doctors another 21% which again will filter down to the client in higher cost.
Obama says that the healthcare reform bill will reduce costs,if you believe that you got to be an idiot.
Obama says the bill is deficit neutral, if you believe that you gotta be smoking something special.
For all those believers that consider trusting our government,I suggest you get the real facts.
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Like I stated everyone has an opinion regarding what the final health-care bill should look like.
  
  However, instead of having several people whine like spoiled brats when they cannot get everything their way in regards to this bill... they have to work as a team (and put away their personal agendas) and make compromises to get enough votes to pass health-care reform. This is teamwork 101.
  
  I pretty sure Obama would like for this bill to have a public option. However, that idea was eliminated since it would not get enough votes to pass.
  
  Obama was put into office to pass health-care reform and so on. The voters did not give him a laundry list of agreeable line items or provisions to include in this bill.
  
  The fact is this: if the Democrats do not pass health-care reform, the Republicans will have a field day with this by mentioning that for two years the Democrats could not accomplish anything with the majority.
  
  However, if health-care reform is passed, the Democrats will use this as a major accomplishment and will state that more accomplishments will be on the way if you elect more of us into office. Democrats can also state we passed health-care against all of the "Party of No's" obstructionist tactics including town hall meetings and Tea Party events. To help us change America for the better faster, elect more of us into office.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Obama was put into office to pass health-care reform and so on."
  
  He was elected president, it was not a referendum on specific issues. One would assume a political leader wouldn't have such a tin ear.
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He campaigned on health-care reform and so on... Likewise, we want health-care reform. The House and Senate Democrats need to get it done so we can move on to other issues.
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who is we? the 25% of people who want this bill passed? I guess we in the 75% who do not want it passed are just supposed to be ignored?
  
  I guess the Messiah can ignore us but he does so at his political peril, and that of his party!
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Right again, Tex
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't think there were any more of these guys still out there, kind of like the Japanese soldier stuck on an island in the Pacific, he doesn't know the war is over!
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Unfortunately there is no shortage
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The majority of Republicans are the ones who do not want this bill to pass...
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  livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Majority of Americans are the ones that do not want this bill to pass.
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All reputable polls say different! A majority 75% of Americans do not want this bill. I'm not a Republican, I don't want it, how do you explain people like me? We are the ones who actually turn the tide in elections, we are the Independent voters and we do not want this joke of a bill, if it is passed we will decide who goes to the White House, and rest assured it will not be the incompetent boob there now!
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Link? And are you sure this poll is a representative sample of the entire US population?
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It was a CNN poll from last week, am I sure? I'm sure that if CNN could find a way to help the boob they would! Rasmussen is the only poll I know of who polls people who actually vote, so no, I can't be sure of CNN.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not just that poll, but all of them show a majority of Americans don't want this mess jammed down our throats! Obama's ego is going to bring down even more dems than it already has.
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's ok with me, let him suck wind in November, he needs a dose of reality!
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It would be great to clear out some more dems from the legislature. I just hope he doesn't wise up like Clinton did in '94. Fortunately, he has shown no capacity or inclination to do so.
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Once health-care reform passes and is implemented, Americans (who may have been misinformed with inaccurate information) will then be able from experience to realize that this bill is really good for all Americans.
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Translation
  
  After the idiot in the white house convinces the other idiots in the senate to ram this shitty bill down Americans throat, and when its obvious the rest of the corrupt assholes that make up members of both parties don't intend to change it, then you will have no choice!
  
  Thanks for clearing that up...
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank goodness we have people like you, Obama, Pelosi, and Reid who know what's best for us poor, ignorant majority of Americans and will 'help' us whether we like it or not.
  
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "I'm from the government and I'm here to help"
  
  For the love of God, noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You said it bro...
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  habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OMG, those are like the scariest words in the English language!!!!!
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The poll Texan is citing is an outlier. It's true that the very latest polls show the majority of Americans are opposed to the current version of the health care bill, but it's nowhere near 70%.
  
  The website pollingreport.com compiles the results of polls from the major polling companies. It would benefit some people here who throw around statistics in support of their arguments to visit this website before they do so.
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hey texan- ok i ask you this. if 30 million people dont have insurance. if you get diabetes and then get another job you can't get insurance for you life threatening illness. why? and should this problem be fixed. or is getting a new job the same as a death sentence and should it be that way?
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  JON- so we should wait on the republicans cause they will look out for the people huh? conservatives blah blah blah! where was this voice when we financed two wars . . . . on credit. . . and illegal wars i might add. what did you say then. probably something like "we're fahtin' fer god and freedom". all we fought for was hunt oil to get the oil contract and that is a bush crony. wake up! if you don't make 1/2 million net a year. republicans got nuthin for you . they are only twisting stuff so they can use you!
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habeeposted 14 years ago
Kenrick, where you been, man? Do you watch the news or read newspapers? Over 70% of Americans DO NOT want this bill!
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Link please?
  
  From what I have read, several Americans are confused... As you may know, several Americans are easy to confuse and influence with propaganda, no matter how ridiculous it is. WMDs in Iraq come to mind... Then several later realized the Iraq War was not a good idea after all...
  
  Once this bill is passed, implemented, and the unfortunate Americans (who are currently confused) experience the benefits from it... then they will realize how misinformed they were previously.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Un-freakin-believable...
  
  ...sounds like a wannabe dictator
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That Iraq thing sure convinced Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, they voted to send troops. I almost forgot, Hillary Clinton too!
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was against the Iraq War as well as many others... A few Democrats did not vote for it including President Obama...
  
  I had the same conversations with my Republican friends in Texas before the Iraq War started like I having with you all and them about the health-care bill that is going to pass. I told them that there are no WMDs in Iraq and if Bush W wants to remove dictators with WMDs, why is he starting war with Iraq and not North Korea?
  
  Then I stated because if he did... the US would lose tons of troops since North Korea is a lot powerful military wise than Iraq... I believe when Clinton was in office and he thought about bombing a nuclear facility in N. Korea, he was told to expect to lose 50K troops in the first 90 days of combat alone against N. Korea. Likewise, he decided not to carry out this action, which is why Bush W probably did not attack N. Korea as well; others wonder if China would have came to the aid of N. Korea as well.
  
  It is a good thing you Republican leaning individuals are against the health-care reform bill because it is a bill that is good for the future of the country. Of course we cannot make the mistake of not passing it and suffering the consequences like when Bush W was allowed to start the Iraq War which was an expensive mistake we are still paying for now.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, the Iraq War is why we should let these arrogant SOBs shove this mess of a healthcareless bill down our throats? That makes so much sense it hurts...
  
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It shows how Republican supporters are easily mislead. They were mislead with the Iraq War and are mislead by Fox News, Tea Parties, town hall meetings and so on regarding the current health-care bill.
  
  Likewise, we cannot continue to allow this ignorance damage the country like the unfunded Iraq War and Bush W tax cuts did.
  
  It's time to reform health-care.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "It shows how Republican supporters are easily mislead."
  
  So those who are superior must do what they know is best for us all regardless of what the people - in all their unwashed ignorance - want?
  
  Do you hate democracy this much?
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why would Obama vote for or against the war in Iraq, he was an Illinois State Senator at the time and had no reason to vote. Didn't you know that?
  
  Sorry Kenrick, I can't continue with this, I just don't take you seriously.
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Habee - you must listen to fox 26. everything they say is misleading and above all you can't listen to repuyblicans. . . . . THEY LIE!!!!
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habeeposted 14 years ago
Kenrick, do you understand the concept of a representative republic? Our representatives in DC are supposed to represent our wishes. They are supposed to be our voice and vote accordingly. They are not our parents.
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There are representing my wishes and many others... If Americans did not want health-care reform, they would have voted McCain and Palin into office.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  AGAIN, it was not a referrendum, it was a presidential election. You know the difference, right?
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You don't seem to be grasping this, more people don't want it than do want it! Your blindness towards that fact is scary, I don't think you really believe what you are writing, and its a safe bet that those who are paying attention don't believe what you are saying.
  
  But I would fight to the death for your right to say it!
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Health-care reform is going to pass. Then a lot of individuals who are against it now will support it once they experience the benefits; just like the misinformed Americans who were taken to cleaners regarding the Iraq War and later realized that they were mislead.
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, you keep saying that, and I still don't take you seriously!
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Health-care reform is going to pass. Then a lot of individuals who are against it now will support it once they experience the benefits"
  
  This attitude sounds like some bad movie villian.
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just like the individuals who were mislead with the "Death panel" accusations. It seems that several individuals do not have the ability to determine if ridiculous statements like these are true or not.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Poor, stupid majority of citizens! It is up to their self-appointed betters to force on them what they are too stupid to embrace. Why, left to their own devices they will just cling to their guns and religion and resist the inevitable 'progress' that shall surely be wrought upon them. They are really like children who must be force-fed their medicine by those who know better!
  
  right?
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Majority of citizens did not fall for these Republican tactics. The majority, if not all, of the Republican supporters probably did.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What "tactics" would those be?
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Death panel accusations and the upcoming propanganda that is going to spew out of the Republican town hall meetings and tea parties to oppose the health-care bill.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So anything that is not in agreement with your superior view is "propaganda"? Is that it?
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well it's exactly what happened for medicare. and now the people that were complaining then HAVE RETIRED AND ARE USING IT NOW!
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well Joe, why shouldn't they? They paid into it, just cause thats what they have and use doesn't make it good!
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well without that program retirees wouldn't have insurance or they would have to pay premiums that they couldn't afford. also it's gov't run. no one is goose steping in the street yet. also the numbers that you recite are from fox 26 and completely wrong. the correct numbers are 41 for 58 against and if the republicrits would tell the truth then it would probably be 75 for 25 against. also medicare is not like social security where you pay into it. you are a citizen you are eligible. the "ONLY" negative. . . is the insurance companies will make less profit
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  HABEE exactly . do you think obama got up one morning and said" hmmm lets see i'm gonna make a bill for health care"? no people from all over the country begged for something to be done. that is how this came about and those money grubbing , greedy insurance companies are fighting tooth and nail to keep getting 3 billion a quarter while they raise premiums 39%. insurance is a racket in the first place and then they use slight of hand methods to prevent paying for your illness, and you . . . fight .for . . them? you need a doctor
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habeeposted 14 years ago
I'm sorry, it's not 70%. It's 58% against, 38% for, according to the most recent CNN poll. Here's the link:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls … html#polls
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe what I saw was a question about a specific part of the bill. In any case the only poll that will get it right is Rasmussen, they always do.
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  RCP average is 41% for and 50% against...If you take sampling error into consideration, the individuals for and against this bill may be closer.
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habeeposted 14 years ago
Kenrick, most Americans DO want healthcare reform, including me. The majority, however, do NOT want this monster that's in congress now!
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Like, I stated earlier. Everyone has an opinion regarding what the final health-care bill should look like.
  
  For example the majority of House Democrats want a public option while the Blue Dog Democrats in the Senate do not...
  
  However, just like a team these individuals have to make compromises (give and take) to produce a bill that can receive the necessary votes to pass...
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  HABEE- how is it a monster? because it has 2400 pages? so what! what does that have to do with anything? thats all legal jargon. we don't have to read that.
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Ghost32posted 14 years ago
Well said, Tex.

I found an interesting article today that addresses the title of this thread fairly directly. Seems a number of Democrat lawmakers actually agree with various proposals by Republicans but are literally afraid (their words) to act according to their beliefs because Nancy Pelosi will punish them if they don't toe the party line.

Leaving questions of strength or weakness in facing up to your party's leaders aside, that would seem to indicate that what Democrat Lawmakers Wish...does not have a simplistic answer.

Shucks. And here I thought we could stick to black and white, leave out all those shades of gray!
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habeeposted 14 years ago
If this bill is so great, why are so many Dems hesitant to support it? Do you think it's fair for me to be taxed for my insurance policy when union menbers have the same policy and aren't taxed for it? Do you like paying for Nebraska's Medicare just so Nelson would vote for the bill? How about Louisiana's and Florida's?

This bill is already so flawed they need to scrap it and start over!
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not too many Dems are hesitant to support it. Two different versions already passed through both the House and Senate.
  
  Some if not several of the previous 39 House Democrats who voted no for the bill that passed in the House may vote for the revised bill President Obama proposed.
  
  Now they are going to pass the Senate bill and use the majority to make changes that can receive enough votes from both the Senate and House. The House Democrats just want to make sure that the Senate Democrats will agree to make changes to the bill once the Senate bill is approved in the House.
  
  While they negotiate that, the Republicans are preparing town hall meetings and Tea Parties to rally their supporters to oppose this bill.
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habeeposted 14 years ago
If the majority didn't fall for the "tactics," why is the majority against the bill??
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I do not believe the majority of Democrats are against this bill. I believe the majority of Republicans are against this bill. So if you factor in independents, the total individuals for and against this bill may be close and can lean in either the Democrats or Republicans favor.
  
  Like I stated, some if not several Americans can be confused easily. WMDs in Iraq, death panels, and so on... In the upcoming weeks, watch more confusion take place as a result of the Republican Tea Parties and Town hall meetings.
  
  Likewise, Democrats need to pass the health-care reform bill so Americans can determine from experience that this bill is actually good for them.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Like I stated, some if not several Americans can be confused easily. "
  
  But you know better?
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A lot of Americans know better. Obviously the Republicans do not if they voted for Sarah Palin and McCain after 8 years of George W.
  
  McCain thought our economy (on the verge of collapse) was fundamentally sound and kept talking about not losing the Iraq War... Palin displayed her intelligence throughout the campaign and afterwards when she kept mentioning that the health-care bill had death panels. Now Sarah is trying stand-up comedy.
  
  You posted an irrelevant article to support one of you fact-less claims about the stimulus bill on another thread. Unfortunately, you may never or are unable to see the light.
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The light?
  
  Is Obama the light? Should we worship him? Should we all accept the inevitable reign of the Obamagod?
  
  You are a scary dude, really!
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The light is the ability to analyze information, use fact-based analysis to make a judgment, use supporting valid details to support your position, quickly uncover and weed out BS, admit to your mistakes, admit you are wrong, and make change for the better.
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  When will you admit you are wrong about what a majority of Americans want?
  
  I will wait patiently for this admission...
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You earlier stated that 75% of Americans do not want this bill. But according to the RCP average of a link supplied by habee.. it's nowhere near 75%...
  
  This is another example of using funny numbers to push your position which has influence others such as Sab.
  
  You also know that these polls have sampling error.
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I addressed that number a while back, but in your hurry to dispel these polls as nonsense you didn't notice. Yes I am aware of sampling errors, but I haven't seen the margin of error at 10% either way, and you do realize the error could be plus or minus. Somehow I bet you think the margin of error works in your favor only, don't you?
  
  See earlier post "Scary dude"
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "McCain thought our economy (on the verge of collapse) was fundamentally sound and kept talking about not losing the Iraq War..."
  
  And as soon as he was elected, Obama said the exact same things
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Until it was politically expedient to say it was on the precipice of collapse, are all Gods this devious, do all Gods lie?
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "And as soon as he was elected, Obama said the exact same things"
  
  Once again Sab, post a relevant link?
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Getting tired of picking up for your not paying attention. Do you follow the news at all, or just receive the talking points in the mail?
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You should use Google, its pretty cool.
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  McCain stated the fundamentals of our economy are strong before TARP and the Stimulus bill were implemented during the Fall of 2008 as a presidential candidate or before the economy was stabilized.
  
  After the economy was rescued or stabilized Obama stated in the Spring 2009 the fundamentals of our economy are fundamentally sound.
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is simply a delusional statement! Obama has already doubled our national debt! He did in one year what took Bush to do in eight!
  
  Have you seen what's going on in Greece? Do you realize that many European countries are on the verge of bankruptcy? Obama is taking the USA don the same path!
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If the economy has been stabilized or Rescued then what did the Bamster need 787 Billion for, he has only spent 10% and we are saved?
  It wouldn't matter to you if the Messiah drank babies blood, you would blindly follow him wouldn't you?
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "McCain stated the fundamentals of our economy are strong before TARP and the Stimulus bill were implemented during the Fall of 2008 as a presidential candidate or before the economy was stabilized.
  
  After the economy was rescued or stabilized Obama stated in the Spring 2009 the fundamentals of our economy are fundamentally sound."
  
  That is some of the weakest, most shameless, reality-altering spin I've seen in a while. Poor attempt.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Unfortunately, you may never or are unable to see the light."
  
  Well, thank goodness I have superior beings like you to force the 'truth' upon me!
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habeeposted 14 years ago
You didn't answer my questions about fairness.
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habeeposted 14 years ago
You still haven't answered my question about fairness...
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That Nebraska Medicaid provision and a few more measures in the Senate bill will be eliminated and a few of the Republican measures will be included via the reconciliation bill.
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habeeposted 14 years ago
And what about the union's free pass?? I read that it's still in!
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Everything in life is not fair. If that union free pass exists, I will be taxed as well.
  
  I will not agree with everything in the entire health-care bill. However, I believe this bill is still beneficial to me and my fellow Americans.
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Sab Ohposted 14 years ago
The soul of a dictator...
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Poppa Bluesposted 14 years ago
This bill is more than 2500 pages! There is so much wrong with this bill the democrats with their majority alone COULD pass it but even they have many objections to the provisions.

First universal health care is not a constitutional power that the federal government has. Health care is a matter to be addressed by the states alone

Secondly, a mandate to buy insurance is not only un-American, it's unconstitutional! The government can not legislate away American freedom, and if we allow them to do so with this, then what will stop them from legislating everything they think is "best" for us?

Passing this bill with a mandate to buy insurance is an immpechable offense, where perjury has been commited in taking the oath of office to uphold and protect the constitution and acting against that pledge.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You and TK are in rare form on this thread. The threat of impending civilization seems to really get your knickers in a knot.
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, excuse me. I get up set when someone I don't know trades my freedom to benefit someone else, like insurance companies and people that don't buy health insurance because they don't feel they need it.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If I misunderstood the situation as badly as you seem to, I'd probably be upset too.
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you feel that you do not need health care insurance, do not seek health care if you unfortunately get hurt or really ill.
  
  Unfortunately, no one with a heart will turn you away from getting treatment especially if it is a life or death situation.
  
  However, do not try to buck the system by not paying for it when almost everyone else who can do.
  
  I now wonder if you are an uninsured motorist as well since you may feel you do not need car insurance....
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  Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What if the person could easily pay the hospital bill, still not good enough they need to be forced to purchase a product.
  
  The car insurance analogy does not work! Unless you are going to mandate that everyone also needs to purchase a car!
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you can afford to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical care; you will pay for health insurance to protect your wealth.
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  Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That should be the persons choice. Is it not their wealth to protect?
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah but the wealthy probably use financial planners and/or stock brokers (including discount brokers) for wealth management activities. And you better believe health-care, life, and/or disability insurance are in their packages.
  
  As you know when people talk about individuals driving without car insurance or not having health care insurance, they will predominantly think of the poor (including illegal immigrants especially in Texas) and not the rich.
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The federal government DOES NOT require you to get auto insurance. The state you live in decides how to handle auto liability. In some states you have a choice of buying insurance OR putting up a bond.
  
  Again, it is the STATES that decide NOT the federal government.
  
  It is also up to the states to decide IF they want to provide universal health care, NOT the federal government. States like MA have already implemented their own plan.
  
  The Federal Government has NO constitutional authority to address the health of it's citizens! It IS the responsibility of the FEDs to keep it's citizens free, not impose mandates to buy insurance!
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just imagine the civil lawsuits you would face if you caused an accident with fatalities and you do not have car insurance.
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  poppa or they don't have enough money to buy insurance , so when their kids get sick they take them to the emergency room which is more expensive. but we all know these people are americas cadillac driving,trailer park/ghetto mansion living, lazy people that don't want to do anything except drink alchohol huh?
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A Texanposted 14 years ago
Date Feb 27-28

Favor Oppose
44% 52%

Thats the latest Rasmussen poll concerning health care, Rasmussen is the only polling service that is consistently accurate.

The Plus/Minus is not going to cover the difference, no matter how much you want to believe you are right.
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well yes but that because Obama didn't explain it well enough to the stupid Americans that can't understand what's good for them!
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Polls change over time... Look at the polls for the Iraq War before it started and the polls during the last year or two.
  
  Once Americans saw that no WMDs were discovered and the Iraq War was "never-ending" yet expensive... the polls shifted.
  
  The same thing will happen once health-care reform is implemented and Americans get to experience the benefits from it and realize that pre-existing conditions no longer exist, insurance companies will have a tough time increasing their premiums, ~30M unfortunate Americans without coverage will now have it, and so on.
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow!! What did that kool-aid taste like?
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But Americans won't see the full benefits of the bill until 2018!!! Of course we'll be paying for it from now until then!
  
  You also assume that there will be a benefit. That costs will go down and care will improve, but even the CBO says costs will rise for most Americans. This bill will do nothing to stop costs from rising, will likely lead to insurance companies going out of business and being replaced by a single payer system and will lead to more rationed care!
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You think maybe thats the plan? Shhhhh, don't tell Kenrick he may report you to the proper authorities!
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We have and been paying for a broken health-care system for years. Please provide a link to where the CBO says costs will rise for most Americans...
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Google! It works.
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is what I found instead regarding the Senate and House health-care reform bill:
  
  "The Congressional Budget Office estimated it (Senate's bill) would cost $849 billion over 10 years, spread coverage to 31 million Americans who currently lack it while still reducing federal deficits by a total of $127 billion in that decade.
  
  An aide said the CBO also estimated that the bill would achieve cuts of $1 trillion over a decade in projected health care costs."
  
  "House bill: Over the first 10 years, revenues and savings are projected to exceed new spending (aka it reduces the deficit) by $104 billion. Projections into the following decade are, as CBO chief Doug Elmendorf always notes, very dicey. But Elmendorf says that, from 2020-2029, "the added revenues and cost savings are projected to grow slightly more rapidly than the cost of the coverage expansions." In other words, though the government will pay more and more each year in subsidies and expanded entitlements, it will be realizing savings and collecting revenues at a greater rate."
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Regarding the House Republican health-care bill:
  
  "Fifty-two million people would continue to go uninsured if the House Republican health care legislation was enacted, the Congressional Budget Office said tonight. Overall, CBO estimates that the bill would only reduce the number of uninsured by 3 million and would cover 83 percent of Americans by 2019 – about the same as what would happen under the status quo. In contrast, the House Democratic health insurance reform bill would cover 96 percent of Americans by 2019 and provide an additional 36 million people with access to quality, affordable health care."
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Now, for the hammer. The president’s “new” plan is basically the same as the earlier Senate bill, only more expensive and with more regulations. There is no firm estimate on how much the president’s plan will cost (there’s no legislative language yet), but we know that he wants to increase subsidies to make it closer to the House bill passed in November. The Congressional Budget Office will score the president’s plan in the coming weeks, but The Washington Post recently suggested it could add $200 billion to the price tag for the $871 billion Senate bill.
  
  Of course, why quibble about a few hundred billion dollars here or there? The Republican staff of the Senate Budget Committee estimated that the senate bill would cost $2.4 trillion fully implemented; even the CBO forecasts the federal government spending $200 billion in 2019 on its coverage provisions (subsidies, tax credits, and Medicaid expansion), with costs going up about 8% every year after that.
  
  http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/03/ … democrats/
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The House Republicans tried to produce a health-care reform bill. The CBO indirectly told them that their bill practically accomplishes the same as doing nothing...or maintaining the status quo...
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Obama's bill includes the formation of over 100 NEW bureaucracies! The CBO scores the costs based upon assumptions made or implied in the bill. Forget the CBO for a minute and try applying common sense. Imagine youself as an insurance company would the following cost you more or less?
  
  Must insure with Pre Existing Conditions
  Can Not Drop anyone
  Must limit the co-pays
  Must Limit the deductables.
  
  Obviously forcing insurance companies to provide these benefits will have to add cost, now how can you spread that out so it isn't such a big increase?
  
  Require 30 million healthy young people to pay premiums!
  
  How do these actions stem the rising costs of care? They don't they won't they can't! I just wish the government, and Obama would stop with the lies! I didn't go to Harvard but I'm NOT stupid and neither are the American people!
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It will require individuals who can pay for health care insurance to pay and provide federal subsidies to help many afford the insurance premiums...
  
  Increase in spending as addressed by the CBO will be more than offset by savings.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "The same thing will happen once health-care reform is implemented and Americans get to experience the benefits "
  
  "Shhhhh....you may not want this lobotomy now, but just stop struggling while we give you this injection and soon everything will feel all better...shhhhhh.....don't fight it...."
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Arthur Fontesposted 14 years ago
This will lower costs is this what the dems have in mind?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How many people reach 100 years in age? I guess you are referring to the untrue death panels propaganda.
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  Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It does not matter how many it is the motivations and intentions I question?
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habeeposted 14 years ago
Democrats are all for a simple majority ruling unless that majority happens to be the American citizens. They're eager to push the bill through before the Easter break - they know that our elected officials will get an earful when they go home, and they're afraid that some of the squeamish dems might not vote for the bill after hearing from their constituents.
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habeeposted 14 years ago
My, how Obama's and other leading dem's view of reconciliation has changed!! Look at how they talk about its being unconstitutional. I guess it's only unconstitutional when the other party uses it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkXjYohzAOY
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  Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In Ma we just elected a Senator. When Kerry was running for President the state legislature changed the rules allowing the Governer (Mitt Romney R)to appoint a senator to replace the seat.
  
  It was changed to the election process.
  
  When Kenneddy passed away the same legislature wanted to change the law back to allow the present governer (Deval Patrick D) to appoint someone to the seat.
  
  Hypocrisy
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  habee, you and the rest of America will reap the rewards from this health-care bill. Unfortunately Democrats have to use this procedure since the Republicans will not get onboard with repairing our current health-care system.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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premierkjposted 14 years ago
Was health care not the reason Obama was elected in the first place?

Did Americans not know this was coming when they voted?
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i just always say . " it takes two parties to run the country. democrats to run it and republicans to run it in the ground"
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, and don't forget the 20 years of economic prosperity that came along with the Reagan administration and a Republican congress that kept Slick Willie in check!
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  REAGAN? ha when he left we had an over 4 trillion dollar deficit. it was so bad from his crony tax cuts that his own party member and former vice president g bush made the famous statement"read my lips, no new taxes" ha ha ha. he raised them in thirty days. he had too. they said our grand children would still be paying that deficit . bill clinton came in paid it off and left a surplus.236 billion. you know the rest .
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No surplus when there is a deficit. You can keep saying it but it will never be true! Again, history is a bitch!
  
  Who do you think is gonna buy the surplus story? Clinton never payed of the deficit, therefore there can never be a surplus!
  
  If you pay your electric bill this month does that mean you get to keep the money for next month because now you have a surplus? Nope, you owe again!
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are confusing annual budgets with national debt. They're not the same thing.
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I ALWAYS SAY IT TAKES TWO PARTIES TO RUN THE COUNTRY. DEMOCRATS TO RUN IT . REPUBLICANS TO RUN IT IN THE GROUND! . . . . REPUBLICANS ARE MAGICIANS THEY ALWAYS TURN SURPLUSES INTO DEFICITS!
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Can't have a surplus when you have a deficit, theonly reason there was a balanced budget at the end of Clintons term was because of Republicans! History, its a bitch!
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  Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Let's give slick Willy kudos for signing some great conservative legislation. It made his legacy.
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What else was he gonna do continue to be like he was in the first couple of years, Dirty Bill was smarter than that, but Obama ain't!
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  + 20M+ jobs created over 8 years. ~6M created during his first two years in office. He created more jobs than Reagan and George H did in their three terms combined.
  
  Unfortunately, Herbert Hoover Jr got into office afterwards and caused some major destruction over a 8 year period with his economic policies.
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  Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So you must be hoping for a conservative landslide come this November?
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No way. I hope that US citizens put more Democrats into office to help Obama fix the mess we are in for the benefit of all Americans... just like FDR did after Herbert Hoover...
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  Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  FDR had WWII to change the way the economy worked.
  
  You are not hoping for a repeat of the FDR administration are you?
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did FDR start WWII? He built up the military and stayed out of the war until the Pearl Harbor attack... FDR was a smart man... He let the allies spend their own money and use their troops in the war (until the US later joined). FDR also sold the allies supplies and when they ran out of money (i.e. Britain); he allow the allies to take out loans to buy much needed supplies...
  
  However, due to George W we are predominantly spending our own money and using our own troops in two expensive wars currently... an Iraq war that we started on our own.... I guess George W did not pay attention to making money off of other people's effort and the ability to influence others during business school at Harvard.
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  FDR was a socialist! He was cruel beyond reason! When people in this country were starving he plowed under fields destroying crops and livestock in an effort to raise farm prices!
  
  His social policies extended the pain of the depression. Throughout his 4 terms unemployment averaged over 15% and this with WWII raging!
  
  In spite of a law passed by congress and ignoring the will of the people FDR instigated war with Germany filling American ships with weapons and sending them to the British in defiance of established agreements with Germany!
  
  Where do you get your information???
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i guess you mean they(republicans) voted with the president. they too saw what needed to be done and fixed it. true. that is how it's supposed to work and what we expect of them. but now they have gone so far to the right, that the proposals that even they made. . . they are voting against. their attempting to break down the system. it's an attempt to stall in hopes of taking over the house. i seriously think that the nation can see just how selfish and narrow they have become thus creating a backlash and i suspect there wont be one republican that wins come november.
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The democrats have lost their way, and much of America is ignorant of the role of government. Read these words from Grover Cleveland, a democrat that used the veto more than any other president!
  
  I can find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution, and I do not believe that the power and duty of the general government ought to be extended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit. Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character, while it prevents the indulgence among our people of that kindly sentiment and conduct which strengthens the bonds of a common brotherhood.
  Cleveland's Veto of the Texas Seed Bill
  February 16, 1887
  
  This actually applies to health care. Obama, and congress have NO business addressing the issue, it's a state issue! The republicans are right not to support it but they can't do a thing to stop it, and the democrats and Obama will pay a heavy price come elections in 2010 and 2012 if it's passed!
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Democrats are doing their job. This is one of the reasons they were elected into office.
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habeeposted 14 years ago
Kenrick and Joe, I HONESTLY hope both of you are right - I hope we all love the bill when it's enacted. I still don't think it's at all fair for the union members to get a pass on their ins. policy tax. Funny, when McCain mentioned doing that in the campaign, Obama excoriated him for the suggestion. Now, Obama thinks it's a great idea - except, of course, for his union supporters.

I hope the plan works and makes healthcare more affordable, but I'm not holding my breath. I was much more in favor of the legislation before Obama sold us out to Pharma - prescription drugs are my biggest monthly medical expense.
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There will be federal subsidies to help you afford quality health care if you need them.
  
  The Democrats goal is take care of all Americans and not just the filthy rich, to make sure all Americans can strive for prosperity, and to promote world peace.
  
  We do not have chickenhawks who start real-life war games due to "faith (of killing and destruction)" or "gut feelings" for money, greed, and selfish purposes that most Americans have to pay for.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "The Democrats goal is take care of all Americans and not just the filthy rich, to make sure all Americans can strive for prosperity, and to promote world peace. "
  
  Is this all some kind of act you are putting on?
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Arthur Fontesposted 14 years ago
I think that we view history from a different perspective. The standard textbook history taught in schools provides a skewed version of the story.

I.G,Farben

Ford Motor Company

Standard Oil

Colonel Edward Mandell House

etc.....

???

.
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jjgeorge1234posted 14 years ago
obviously, we are a country based on principles of free choice and meritocracy. and no one should be given free entitlements without paying their dues. but in such a wealthy country, how can we say no to providing food and health care to those in need.
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