well congress has given the people of the United states more burden with this bill they they pass illegally. who is going to protect us from the democratic party? well don't lose hope maybe the supreme court will deem it illegal. The constitution says, government can not pass any law that forces the people to buy a product. does that make this law null and void?
You know, I'm really glad you brought this up. Because I think not everyone is seeing the big picture here. It will never pass the Supreme Court. Which for me is too bad. See, I'm one of those people who would benefit from this plan. I need it. However, I've never gotten too excited about it, because I know it will never come to full admission. Or at least this is what I think. So instead of bickering about, lets see how this all plays out. You know. It will never come to pass. The conservative judges will not allow it. They won't.
Yes, but I have always had car insurance. Always, before it was required or was not required. So that angle does not work for me. I pay cash for my cars. I cannot afford for someone with no insurance or shitty insurance to hit me. So I have always protected my own. I buy insurance for that reason. Always have, always will. You know that is what insurance was originally for? Now whether it is limited liability or full coverage depends on which of my 3 cars I drive; the BMW, the Audi or the Honda. Not what somebody else tells me.
I also have health care insurance. I pay over 6,000.00 a year in health insurance. And that is on a 10,000 deductible, no prescription meds. With my history- that is the best I can do.
If they don't have cars, they don't need car insurance. On the other hand everybody runs the risk of illness or injury, even the young kids who think they are invincible. If they don't have insurance the taxpayers pay for their treatment at emergency rooms. Or their parents pay.
yes I know gov. bureaucracy that's a problem. I agree health care needs to be fixed. I think tort reform. but they wipe that off the table? I guess tort reform is bad for lawyers and insurance company's. could be the reason they avoid issue of using tort reform.
They already do. You have to buy license plates, insurance,etc... How about money period? That is a Government made consumer product that they make 95% profit on. It only cost 5 cents to make a dollar bill.
1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
there's a law in this bill that states you must buy health insurance, if you don't need it witch most young people don't. you have to pay it any how. if you don't pay the gov for your insurance you will be fined and or jailed! I'm not sure if the constitution allows that. Peace
What do you mean most young people don't need health insurance? God bless you if you ever have to go to the emergency room, break a bone, or get seriously ill and aren't covered. You would be in for one huge-ass shock!
I agree health care needs to be fixed. I think tort reform. but they wipe that off the table? I guess tort reform is bad for lawyers and insurance company's. could be the reason they avoid issue of using tort reform. and I said most young people obviously if you are sky diving or motor cycle racing YES get ins! Peace
I'm sorry, you Tea Partiers and others who are so deathly afraid of this health care bill. It passed. And it IS legal. And it will help millions of Americans. Just like Medicare does. Just like Medicaid does.
Kerry G raises an excellent point. The government has been mandating behavior and dictating consumer purchases all along. Car insurance, business licenses, marriage licenses -- all dictated by the government. And here's a fun example: In the midst of the greatest recession since the 1930s, what were legislators concentrating on? Requiring children to wear helments when they SKI or SNOWBOARD. Yep. Now THERE's some sweeping legislation for you -- Conservatively I'd guess that what, maybe 5% of Americans actually ski or snowboard?
I was going to get into the government forcing women to purchase birth control so as to avoid unintended pregnancies which would lead to ... well, we all know where that leads. Best to leave it alone.
Now nobody I think can deny that. However, this is the American Mantra. It's our motto creepy, and always will be. When you send in lawyers, to do an accountant's job- what do you expect? I expect the mass chaos which always comes from mismanaged banking. That is all we know.
To think that any thing American law makers do, isn't going to cause mismanaged funding, is mind boggling to me.
What about your creepy buddies? White pride advocates march in Jackson; one person arrested By Todd A. Heywood 3/22/10 3:37 PM Digg Tweet
While most Michigan residents were gearing up for March Madness basketball or the historic U.S. House vote on health care reform on Sunday, Jackson residents were treated to the coming out party of a new white nationalist group.
White Pride advocates march in Jackson
White Pride advocates march in Jackson The new self-described National Socialist group — Battalion 14 Michigan — hosted a White Pride Worldwide march from Jackson’s Loomis Park to downtown Jackson. And the group managed to muster up 17 souls to march for white pride — leaving at least a dozen women and children back at the park.
But those opposed to the white pride message severely outnumbered the B14 members. Jackson cops estimated the counter protest to number between 300 and 500 people, however, it was probably closer to 200. They followed Battalion 14 Michigan Commander Chris Simpson and his band of white pride advocates into the streets of Jackson — verbally taunting them, kicking them or stepping on their heels, and spitting on them. Simpson and another B14 member were dressed in all black, including stocking caps and masks.
I really don't think the Supreme Court is going to do much to help change this law. No the government can't make you purchase a product but they can make you pay taxes. Medicare and Social Security and everything else included in the FICA tax are just examples of how the Govt is going to get around most objections. Honestly, the only ones I see objecting to this are those that can afford health insurance but choose to spend their money on other luxuries, which they surly had the right to do until now. And also those individuals earning more than $250,000 per year are going to get hit with a higher tax rate.
In 50 years, most Americans will be proud that they live in a country that doesn't deny it's poorest citizens access to healthcare... the benefits and wisdom of what is happening now will be as clear the pubic hairs on that lie on top Clarence Thomas' diet coke can
another great example of propagandistic rabble rousing - who said anything about being jailed? and I doubt if the fines are going to hold up! and I think it's about time those fat cats ceased getting all their tax write-offs and actually have to pony up for a change! literally!
you are even more simplistic, by the minute (notice I did not use the R word) a very very small percentage of the population actually won't pay for medical care - so blow it out your- - - oh! is that offensive enough?
Has anyone asked why you are being 'forced' to buy insurance.
Because your insurance companies don't like insuring the sick. In order to keep costs to a reasonable level you need everyone, or nearly everyone insured to balance the sick with the healthy.
20 years from now your role will have changed, you will have arthritis and a heart condition and you will be costing far more than you put in. You won't be complaining then as the healthy subsidize your costs.
Think of it as a savings plan.
Remember, every developed country successfully uses this system. Is there a chance it is not as terrible as you think or are you so committed to denying healthcare to the poor.
If you are paying taxes on that 80 hrs work, then the only tax payer paying that portion, would be yourself. A person who works eighty hours a week, is entitled to receive something for their tax dollars spent. If it is health care- so be it.
TIME has described Rasmussen Reports as a "conservative-leaning polling group". Democratic Party activists have pointed out that Scott Rasmussen was a paid consultant for the 2004 George W. Bush campaign. According to Nate Silver's FiveThirtyEight.com, while there are no apparent records of Scott Rasmussen or Rasmussen Reports making contributions to political candidates and its public election polls are generally regarded as reliable, "some observers have questioned its issue-based polling, which frequently tends to elicit responses that are more conservative than those found on other national surveys.".
What right does the government have to tax me in order to build a billion dollar fighter plane? If the time comes when I have to defend myself.. I’ll take of that then and there.
If you truly believe in individual freedom and are against the state taxing and acting on behalf of the common good, then why would you accept taxation for military purposes?
In fact, it is NOT government intervention that you are against.. it is not the waste of TRILLIONS of dollars, is it? It is OK to tax and spend as long as it is for things YOU care about. You even said so yourself.. you don’t care if the poor live or die.
You aren't a Libertarian.. you are a selective Socialist... so stop claiming that there is some ideological substance behind your ranting.. or else people might think you are a candidate for some free state-sponsored mental healthcare
excellent Creepy... come on the forums and rave like a lunitic... then attack others who call you out for the fool that you are..
What you don't realize is that each dumb comment you make makes people who would otherwise be on the fence move to postions opposite to yours, because they don't want to be associated with the wack jobs of the world.
keep it up buddy, you're doing your part in for healthcare in America!
You are the same type of person who looks to the Constitution to prevent a healthcare bill. I'm sure the fine gentlemen who wrote the Constitution had plenty of thoughts that started with "I don't care who..."
I live in Massachusetts and should know the answer but I don't. Has the Mass. Plan been challenged, because it has a mandate? When you file your income tax, you have to have a number of an approved plan to insert into one of those little boxes. I think the major fines start this year. It's been in place since 2006
Just wondering because I haven't heard of any challenge.
The best President since Johnson has now changed America for ever! What has he done? He has done what every other civilised nation in the world did many years ago and it has taken 100 years for someone with the good sense to put the health bill through the Senate, and as risky as that was, it got the right outcome. I have the bill, and yes I have read it all. Welcome to this century America!
Obama has enabled the nation to recognise that the strength of a great country is in the morality it exhibits.
The health act will bring the rewards in social peace that America has never seen before, this is what happens when we care for those who need it, and allow the poor to have a better life for their families. Being rich or poor for many is a cycle, so be happy if you have work and feel safe when you don't. If you get ill, you can go to the doctor now, not after it gets life threatening.
I am so proud of my American cousins, as I was when Obama became President. You will soon be out of Iraq, with some support from home and abroad it may even be possible for Obama to get out of Afghanistan. The stimulus package like ours is working despite it being a bit of a dogs dinner due to the required haste to implement them. They are getting sorted out too!
Even if Obama is eaten at the next elections by the usual American extremists who try to destroy anything not based entirely on the mighty dollar, America is growing to be a truly great nation. The wealth is as always in it's people, something the incumbent seems to understand well.
To those of you who hate Obama, I say you cook the books in every accusation made. Fair go! He is not any of the ignorant titles he has been given. He is a decent, intelligent President, not a muslim, or the anti-christ! Geeze!
Bush and his cronies invaded a sovereign nation on false pretences and bullied the free world into what he called "the willing" based on a lie. A lie that cost two of those countries Prime Ministers their jobs. (Blair/Howard.
He then allowed other high officials in the government to profit from the war. This is what you left behind. Be thankful republican and democrat.
I love chocolate, and haven't got an ounce of fat on me. This President has achieved more real change than any other for some time, and if the crazy name calling extremists are seen for what they are, America will become great again under this Presidency.
ok bro , like no one ever doged a pres. if you think that makes some one an extremists you are way too thin skin. hell look what the dems did to bush lol not that I think bush did everything right ... but I never was a blind follower.
Okay I have just finished reading the actual bill that has been written and passed, and nowhere can I find anything about health insurance being mandatory.
Infact most of the benefits seem geared to protecting those who simply cannot get health insurance, ie. those who had pre-existing conditions.
It also seems pretty much geared to increasing competition between healthcare insurance providers, and looking at the drafts of the bill it appears that the republicans that have been fighting the bill have been the ones which have the most interests in insurance companie.
Please, find where it says people have to buy healthcare insurance, because I cannot see it anywhere in the proposal. It seems more geared to making health insurance a better deal, thats all.
Most of it is fiscal jargon not legal, the interesting thing is that it should leave people better off, since the new rules should increase competition, it should lower health insurance prices, which can only be a good thing because you guys get completely ripped on Health insurance (I'm looking at spending between 5x and 10x more on health insurance than I would have to pay in the UK when I move to America, this works because the insurance companies really do have to compete with a free system here, ensuring prices stay low and competitive.
As a user of national health care I can safely say that I am glad I live in a country where I could go and get a hemorrhoidectomy without having to worry about the cost, because if I had had to do that, I probably would have just sat and suffered with it until it became a serious problem.
Likewise, there are countless small ailments that can make life miserable, but are not essential for treatment, not to mention lots of small signs which should be checked for things such as cancer, but many people avoid due to the cost.
I am not saying national health care is perfect, I am just saying that there are somethings I don't think people should need to worry about the cost of. If any of my loved ones where in pain, I wouldn't want to have to consider treatment on a cost/pain analysis, I would want them to feel better again.
I think your comments would be echoed by the majority of people, (like me) who live in countries where there is some form of national healthcare. They are not perfect systems, but they are far better off than the alternatives.
I would also bet that in most countries where national healthcare is a reality today, similar arguments were made to the ones on this forum.. and time has proven how ridiculous most of them were.
I just heard it on NPR today...mandatory health insurance starts in 2014 or there abouts...there are only a few things that start within the next year... but gearing up for the changes starts today in the minds of the people...and for many of us it won't start because we have an individual concept of liberty that cannot be ignored...no one forces me to do what i have no need to do, it is unAmerican. I am fifty years old, given birth to four children and raised them all without healthcare insurance...we didn't need it because we took good care of ourselves (after learning some hard lessons )
I would rather donate to charities that provide for people in accountable and responsible ways,and even some of those are as bad as the government in how they handle their "books".
Ahh okay, I have found the bit which talks of mandatory healthcare insurance on reuters. However it does also mention that this is not absolute coverage, there are exceptions, and for those people earning less than 4x the poverty level you will be given 'credits' to help with payment.
Will be interesting to see how it pans out, will also be interesting to see if I will qualify for the credits being a non-citizen.
This health bill does require mandatory participation. Regardless, I can't afford it so I've hidden all my money and I'm preparing for permanent incarceration. However, this health bill raises a serious Constitutional crisis. This is more about seizing power (to the Executive branch) and limiting rights than about health care. At least 38 states will fight it. This is socialistic madness. The next phase of this insanity is to give illegals amnesty. How many remains to be seen. It could be 10 million or 38 million. (Much depends on how fast illegals can get here.) The third and final phase is the North American Union.
Folks, we're really all on the same side here! We are Americans! Land of the FREE and home of the Brave. We all believe people need healthcare. But it is this bill that is wrong and one-sided, with the majority of the people in this country against it. It needs to be fair and balanced with input from all - this was not the case here. We need to stop bashing each other and see how we can work to make sure a better law is passed!
Like you really think we have a snowball's chance in hell of politically fighting the tyannical leadership?! It's gone so far that it needs legal prosecution. And no....I don't think we ARE all on the same side.... But hey if you have any good ideas, let's hear 'em.
I love the USA, especially the people. I love Australia more. We have much more freedom than even America has.
Like America we too have great universities that produce leaders in all the sciences free top class health care, which has been around for 30 years) and a multi-cultural society that is rich. Australia also has a very strong economy, no longer based only on primary products, but balanced across a broad range of GDP production such as manufacturing, High tech medicine etc etc.
...about a website needing to provide information on training and educational opportunities including mandatory costs.
People need to relax. LOL
This panic reminds me of when FOX told people that in Massachusetts the Swine Flu vaccine was mandatory, and those who didn't get it willingly would have police at our doors with needles in hand. oy ve
The bill does require participartion in 2014. There is a fine of $600 if you don't purchase health insurance.
There is no jail time.
On the subject of the mandate. True, you only have to buy car insurance if you have a car. The idea is that anyone on the public roads is an economic risk to himself and others who use the public system. This reasoning has been deemed valid, even by wingnuts.
You only have to buy health issurance if you are living. Because anyone not dead is a a candidate for illness, accident or disease. As a society, we will care for these people but those people have an obligation to society not to be an economic burden to the system.
Case in point - my daughter was healthy as an 18 year-old can be when I got a call from the police that she was in the ER with an injury. Two separate operations were nescessary to save heer life. She required extensive PT to learn to walk, talk and feed herself. The only people who don't need insurance are dead people.
I have no doubt that the Supreme Court will hear arguments and I offer no prediction except that it will be a close decision.
Oh really? And what pray tell do you think happens when you don't pay the fine? The door is open for incarceration, so what if it doesn't say it, it is a federal law and this opens you up for disobeying to be incarcerated!
If you do not pay fines in this country sooner or later you will end up in jail. That is a fact of life and applies to everything from parking fines to Taxes. Just because the Bill does not say that is what will happen is no reason to believe that it will not.
Well they got away with instituting income tax and many other things. This will stick as well. they can jail me, then my healthcare will be taken care of, my food, sleeping quarters and I will not be paying taxes either.
"President Obama's fiscal 2011 budget will generate nearly $10 trillion in cumulative budget deficits over the next 10 years, $1.2 trillion more than the administration projected, and raise the federal debt to 90 percent of the nation's economic output by 2020, the Congressional Budget Office reported Thursday."
I know in my life, I can not afford health insurance until a job with decent pay comes my way. I have been unemployeed for eight months now and find work hard to come by in my tiny neck of the woods here in...
I hope this to be as non-combative as possible: I will try to explain how thinking economically will lead you to understand how detractors of Obamacare see itThe question is: how will forcing people to buy health...
Tea Party Montana Style--Nullification, Secession, and a Pistol in Every Pocket"With each new bill, newly elected tea party lawmakers are offering Montanans a vision of the future."Their state would be a place...