I have a question...

1. 59

   TMMasonposted 14 years ago

   If it was so insulting for those boys in the school to wear the American flag on cinco de'mayo.
   
   Then how is it not insulting to Americans, that on Memorial Day Weekend and Memorial Day, they are in the streets of our cities protesting thier right to be illegal? Calling us racists and screaming oppression.
   
   Seems as though we're being spat on to me...
   
   I would like to know what others think about it.

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      livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      To be clear, you mean "white people" when you say "Americans" here, right?
      
      Yet again, you talk of Latinos and Americans as being 2 different things.

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         TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         No Live, I mean Americans... don't tint what I say with your own beliefs.

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      woolman60posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      "WE ARE NO LONGER WHO WE ARE,
      
      WE HAVE BECOME THEM"

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      Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Of course, TMMason build the post on a false premise - that these parades are non-Americans in America, 'spitting' on America.
      
      The reality is that the vast majority in these marches ARE Americans who despise the implicit racism in the Arizona law - demanding as they have for years that Congress ACT on comprehensive reform.

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      rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      TMMason
      
      Plain and simple is that the boy's wore the American Flag to confront the rest of the school for celebrating Cinco de Mayo, and try to bring some controversy to it.
      
      When they were confronted they did not like the reaction they got.
      
      I have seen the same thing happen to people who wear or fly the Rebel Flag under the guise of proclaiming states rights. 
      
      The intent is always denied while the rights are offered as an excuse.
      
      Get off of it.

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         wildernessposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Plain and simple is that people celebrate Cinco de Mayo to confront other people for being American, and try to bring some controversy to it.  The vast number of those celebrating this date are Mexicans in the US.  Such celebrations in Mexico are sporadic at best (almost exclusively in the state of Puebla where the battle took place) and of little significance.  Apparently the celebration is out of pride from being born in a nation so corrupt that it's idea of supporting its citizens is to harass its northern neighbor into doing it for them.
         
         Puts a little different viewpoint on the whole thing, doesn't it?  Consider if all the (ex)Americans that have immigrated to Britain decided to hold a national holiday celebrating the Battle of New Orleans, with marches shutting down large sections of town and demanding that Britain cooperate by lowering its own flags and grant pardons for criminal activities by any Americans in Britain.  Somehow I don't think it would go over very well - being drug into an alley to meet British fists is probably the least of what they could expect!

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            Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            "Plain and simple is that people celebrate Cinco de Mayo to confront other people for being American, and try to bring some controversy to it."
            
            You mean like the Irish celebrate St. Patrick's Day with a parade down Fifth Avenue in NYC?

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   Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago

   Sure we're being "spat on".
   But God forbid we'd speak up for America's sovreignty.
   You're probably gonna be called a lotta bad stuff by the libs here;  but I respect you for pointing out the truth.  Rock on.

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      TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Oh they haven't liked me much since the day I first showed up.
      
      But it is alot more fun that way... so what the hell.

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   Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago

   How do you know that every person protesting was illegal?

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      livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Exactly. He'll probably say they look like illegals, so, same thing.

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      TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Well I don't.
      
      But I sure wish the INS and feds wouldv'e been thier carding them all.
      
      I think it is reasonable to think people at a rally to support illegal activity... may be part of that illegal activity.
      
      I have watched many a weed head arrested for possession at a NORML rally. Yes I would think many of them were of questionable status, UW. Only one way to find out.... ask.

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         livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Why don't we just round up all people we suspect to be illegal and put them in internment camps until we determine if they're legal or not?

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            TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Well I am against the leftist internment camp thing, Live.
            
            We saw what happaned last time we allowed people on the left to open them things, FDR, Woodrow Wilson, Hitler, Stalin, Castro, etc...
            
            I think that the leftists should slow down and deport those illegals which should not be here, which is all of them by definition, in an orderly fashion. 
            
            Don't go all psychotic leftist on us and start rounding everyone up as you leftists have done so many times before.
            
            Just chill... we can do this...

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               livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Yesterday's populist, racist left is today's populist, racist right. They haven't changed anything except party affiliation.

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               Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               "We saw what happaned last time we allowed people on the left to open them things, FDR, Woodrow Wilson, Hitler, Stalin, Castro, etc..."
               
               TMMason - I don't think you could be in the military because you couldn't possibly learn how to  march. You don't know your left from your right.
               
               BTW - FDR, Woodrow Wilson, Hitler and Stalin were NOT on the same team.  That you seem to think so demonstates your worldview.

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                  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  All left... Doug please... progressives, socailists, NAZIs, KKK, Communists. You know the left Doug. Man catch up.

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                     Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     There are KKK videos on youube. Amyone can go out and listen and decide if those folks would fit in better with teabaggers than dmocrats.
                     
                     FDRwas not on the same team as Hitler in WWII - The policies of that liberal president were totally opposed to fascism. Before the outbreak  of WWII, the most decorated USMC general of all time exposed a Wall Street  plot to execute a military coup and replace FDR with a fascist leader who would take his orders from Wall Street. 
                     
                     You haven't got a historical clue what the 'isms' you clump in one bag are about.

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                        TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        FDR was on the same side as Stalin... who was a worse mass murderer that Hitler.
                        
                        Your leftists game of shoving your bad apples to the right is not going to work Doug.
                        
                        The KKK was founded as the terrorist right wing of the dixie-crats. NAZIs are socailists, Stalin was a commie and best friend of FDR who was a progressive, also left.
                        
                        Man learn about your isms before you try to twist that BS this way.

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                           Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Stalin and Russia helped us defeat Hitler, suffering incredible casualties in the process. What are you implying when you link FDR and Stalin? Are you claiming FDR was a Communist? Either your ignorance knows no bounds or you're willing to say anything regardless of fact to try to make a point. ???

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                              TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              I stated it perfectly clearly Ralph. So do not put words in my mouth. FDR was a progressive, Stalin was a commie. And it is a historical fact that FDR and Stalin were unusually close. Or do you forget the ole Uncle Joe... FDR insisted on calling him.
                              
                              And yes, after Stalin and Hitler were partners and that deal collapsed because niether could trust the other... then Stalin jumped on our side.
                              
                              Yeah we know that ralph.

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                                 Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 FDR tolerated Stalin because we and UK and Russia were allies against Nazi Germany. There was no resemblance between FDRs political views and those of Stalin. Your ignorance is incredible.
                                 
                                 And, by the way the KKK was founded 100 years before the Dixiecrats. Suggest you try a little harder to stick to the facts.
                                 
                                 And, the NAZI's were the antithesis of socialists despite the fact that they called themselves National Socialists.

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                                    TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    Where in the above did I mention thier political views being similar?
                                    
                                    I didn't... you did.
                                    
                                    I said FDR was a Progressive and Stalin a Commie.
                                    
                                    I also stated they were very close, which is a matter of fact. It was FDR which nick-named Sytalin Uncle Joe...
                                    
                                    So stop trying to put words in my mouth...

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                              Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              "Either your ignorance knows no bounds or you're willing to say anything regardless of fact to try to make a point. "
                              
                              It's a close call Ralph, but I go with #1.

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                                 TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Left is left... You can deny it all you want... doesn't change the facts... all leftists.

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                                    Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    You think anything to the left of Ghengis Khan is liberalism.

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                                       TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       yes Ghengis... a great right winger in his day...
                                       
                                       Acxtually... and I know this is going to flip alot of nuts in the hubs.
                                       
                                       My favorite Senator and right wing hero is the late great Joseph McCarthy.
                                       
                                       A great man killed by the left and the progresasive right.
                                       
                                       Funny, he would be saying; I told you all so.... right now.

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                                          Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                          Why am I not surprised to find that you are a fan of a drunken asshole?

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            tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Well there are about 500 internment camps up already. It's a matter of time.... LOL

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   Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago

   By the liberal view's rules, if there were a French student at that school, they'd have a right to protest the Mexican students' celebration in the first place!  Surely it would be hugely offensive to that/those French students to have people wearing t-shirts braggin' about defeating the French in battle.
   
   And so the stupid agenda rages on, no matter what.
   
   
   America is America, people!   We're not Mexico, nor are we France, nor are we Italy, nor are we Ireland, nor are we anything else but uniquely AMERICANS.
   
   It doesn't take even a smart person to get that fact.
   But it does apparently take wishy-washy uncommitted, and/or confused people to NOT get that fact.

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      livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I would argue you know as much about what it means to be American as you know about what it means to be a Christian (i.e. virtually nothing).

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      Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I guess you should ban St. Patrick's Day too? And Christmas isn't an American holiday either, ban that too.
      
      And so far, all the insults have been from you...

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         Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         why?  are these holidays your speaking of celebrated by an illegal community within our borders?

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            livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Pretty sure more illegal immigrants celebrate Christmas than they do Cinco de Mayo.
            
            Let's just ban Christmas to make sure no illegals get to celebrate it.

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            Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I celebrated Cinco de Mayo and I'm not even Mexican and don't live in the US.
            
            Brenda was complaining that Cinco de Mayo should not be celebrated because it's not an American holiday. So, I just gave some examples.

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               TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               You all just breeze past the topic and onto your obfuscating...
               
               The point is American kids get in trouble for wearing the American flag on cinco de'mayo. But the illegals can spit in our face on memorial day and that is fine.
               
               Yup gotta love the left's patriotism.

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                  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Yup gotta love today's right's inability to grasp reality.
                  
                  1. Having a protest on a holiday is not spitting on Americans.
                  
                  2. The majority of those protesting the Arizona law are not illegals; they are US citizens or legal immigrants.
                  
                  3. The kids wearing the American flag on cinco de mayo didn't wear it every day; they chose to wear it specifically that day because cinco de mayo was "foreign." (You might want to ask them why they didn't wear it on St Patrick's Day, as UW mentioned)

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                     TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Yeah they were all legal. Whatever live.
                     
                     I saw alot of scenes from alot of thier protests and they were not the calmest bunch. But thats okay... as long as it isn't that crazy tea party out there protesting.
                     
                     They gather up in our cities to scream we should not deport them and you think it is fine.... but don't wear a flag on your shirt to and American school on cinco de'mayo. Right.
                     
                     And even if those kids did wear it on that day, just to protest the celebrating of cinco de'mayo. That is thier right also.
                     
                     Amazing... it is okay for them, illegals, to do whatever, in any city during our holidays. But don't protest them in any way, shape or form.
                     
                     Yup, that is a leftist bit of logic if i have ever heard it.

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                        livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        You are inventing a lot of things in your post here that aren't true.

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5. 78

   kirstenblogposted 14 years ago

   How cool would it be if life in Mexico was such that people would not feel they need to live in the US as illegals in order to have a good life . What if the political corruption and poverty was addressed and were diminished to a manageable level? What if Mexicans could feel the same sort of pride for Mexico that Americans feel for America? At the end of the day Americans take huge pride in the fact that there is freedom enough to protest anything under the sun with no more fear then being laughe4d at on the internet. It must say something that making the perilous journey to the states and then living as an illegal (most likely in real poverty) is still a better option then living in Mexico. Even complaining seems to be one of the great American luxuries

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      TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I agree. It would be a great thing.
      
      Of course it takes Mexican citizens willing to stay and effect that change to bring it to fruition.
      
      And they are all coming here... so...

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         kirstenblogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         From what I understand the drug cartels are a big part of the problem of corruption and even the poverty (a very unbalanced distribution of wealth) that leads to a disaffected population unable to organize into proper action. From this I draw the conclusion that if we could end the profitability of the drug cartels the average Mexican citizen might just feel empowered enough to make real positive steps for life in Mexico in the form of legitimate business and agriculture etc.

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            Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You raised an excellent point.
            
            The illegal immigrants organized a 'day without immigrants', right?  What if (extreme long shot, I know  lol ) America were able to organize a 'day without drugs' to send the message back to Mexico? 
            
            Tell everyone you know who uses drugs - if you want a job and want the illegal immigrants to go back to Mexico then on July 1, 2010, Don't Buy Any Drugs!!
            
              Like I said, an extreme long shot that I'm sure will never happen.

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         Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Last year in the small border town of Juarez - over 1600 civilians died in senseless murders by warring cartels. If you were there and Mexican, would you organize a peace march or try to find a safe place for you, your wife and children.

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6. 59

   TMMasonposted 14 years ago

   Thank God for the right to bear arms...
   
   Mexicans have no defense against armed cartels and a crooked Govt without the right to bear arms.
   
   It is in our Constitution for just that purpose. Defense against an over-bearing and tyranical Govt. and defense of life, family and property.

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      kirstenblogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The sick irony is that these cartels have some crazy guns
      It actually scares me the kinds of guns these criminals have

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         TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Yeah they are very well armed and trained... some by the US govt. and I believe many by the Mexican govt. or certain factions within it. You're talking about billions of dollars in product and weapons.
         
         You cannot fight that with signs and protests.

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            kirstenblogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You are right, a Mexican civil war would not actually sort the problem out and that is one option, fight for freedom. I do see another option, remove the 'market' for drug cartels. Business is business for good or for bad, if there is a demand for something someone will find a way to supply that demand for a profit of course . So do we end one form of human suffering (that of the nation of Mexico) or protect (sometimes ignorant) people from the freedom to make self destructive choices like using drugs? I guess my feeling is that if you decide to smoke, drink or use drugs in this modern world of ours you are not a victim as its common knowledge these are dangerous substances (especially if abused) and on the other hand the peasants of Mexico living in fear are innocent victims and are the more obvious people to attempt to protect.

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               foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Why is the United States always the bad guy? People are suffering all over the world. So the Great Power of the West is supposed to ride in with swords drawn and save the day? There has to be some accountability by  individual leaders. Each government must take care of its own. There is nothing wrong with the Mexican Congress -- except that it's corrupt and heavily infiltrated by cartels. Is this a problem of the American people?
                  This is the Age of Bailouts. Whether it be banks, big business, homeowners, or countries (Greece), nobody is being forced to take responsibility for their actions.
                  If Mexico is such a mess -- and it is -- then an international military force should go in and declare martial law until the mess is cleaned up. To put the burden on the United States is nonsensical. There are serious human rights violations in Mexico yet the United Nations is blaming the United States for not doing enough. Ridiculous.

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7. 57

   foreignpressposted 14 years ago

   It's really a shame that America is being torn apart. I don't think it has anything to do with illegals, racism, SB1070, or any of the above. There is something much deeper; a vile hate and loathing for this country that nobody has identified yet.
      So because I am white I'm with the KKK? So because I want our federal laws enforced I am racist? Sorry, but none of that makes any sense. And this is what I'm referring to.
      Many of you here are saying we need "immigration reform." Do you have any idea how long that will take? Even if Congress started now it would be two years at least before a law was passed. More than likely reform -- which we don't need -- will be five years or more.
      So what do states like Arizona do in the meantime? Open the borders? Enforce laws already on the books? What are you people suggesting? But you have no answers. You simply lash out in an uncontrolled condemnation. You scream "racist" and "white" and "profiling" while mocking the very laws that provide some semblance of social order.
      Something vile and evil has gripped this country. And a heavy price is being paid. Los Angeles, which is a sanctuary city, is destined for bankruptcy by 2016. It cannot sustain the welfare and other entitlements that it says people -- to include illegal immigrants -- "deserve." Other cities will be declared insolvent before that.
      Laws are made for a reason. It's for the common good. Why people refuse to understand this is incomprehensible. And why the venom on this forum isn't directed at Mexico and Calderon is also a puzzle.
      What's happening is almost supernatural.

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   lovemychrisposted 14 years ago

   Our CIA is a huge part of the problem...they've been running drugs since the 1950's. How much do you think is their doing? A lot!  And where do you think cartels buy their guns? America--for one. At gun shows....and don't you DARE touch that, right? And who always screams....let anyone buy a gun who wants one, no questions asked?
   Like Ron Paul says: Dismantle the CIA...many problems will end. Including drugs. Legalize, tax and regulate!
   
   And the vile hate for America in my eyes is coming from you righties ever since Obama got elected. You hate him, and any of us who support him. It's ridiculous to hear you talk about hate...look in the mirror.

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      foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, of course. The finger pointing. The accusations. The hate that goes round and round like a ferris wheel where each chair is filled with greed, despair, hate, and distrust. Problem is, nothing gets resolved in such a venue. Of course it's the CIA -- the epitome of cloak 'n dagger conspiracy.
         To what end? It has gotten to the point where we are openly breaking laws designed to protect the greater good to accommodate an elitist few. Bush was a worthless wimp. Obama is a shuckster who employs cutthroat Chicago machine tactics to achieve an objective.
         Ultimately, the result will be a society that collapses and, like Rome, it will happen from within. But, to take this full circle, Mexicans should be proud of their heritage. They should salute their flag. But their fight is in Mexico not here. Their demonstrations should be in every city and on every street corner -- in Mexico. After Mexico's internal problems have been resolved by the citizens of Mexico -- then we can open the border.

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   Ralph Deedsposted 14 years ago

   Sign on the front wall of the church in Tucson (Grace St. Paul's Episcopal) where my sister was married last month: "LOVE THY UNDOCUMENTED NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF." [This church is also gay tolerant and has a large gay contingent in its congregation.]
   
   The people of Tucson don't seem to be as intolerant and fearful of Mexican immigrants as those in Phoenix, home of Nazi Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
   
   [I would post the picture of the church and sign from my computer, but I haven't been able to figure out how to do that. Anyone know if that's possible?]

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      Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It's possible - it has to be a .jpg on the web, I think. I still haven't gotten the protocol straight. Where's Ron? He's damn good at it. Cracks me up. I need to know, too. Somebody help an old hippie out here. (Me not you, Ralph)

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         Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         You have to have it somewhere online, then you post it with
         [img]URL of picture[/img]

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            Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Thank You.

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               wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Use Flickr or Photobucket, or you can also link to a pic in a hub.
               The file can be a .gif or .png, too.
               
               

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      foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      " The people of Tucson don't seem to be as intolerant and fearful of Mexican immigrants as those in Phoenix . . ."
      ________________________________________________________
      
      The same spin. One has to wonder if some space alien hasn't zapped the minds of a population segment that has developed comprehension problems.
         Are these immigrants? Really. Or illegal immigrants? Of course, these "immigrants" are fully capable of paying their way once they step across that imaginary line. And, let's see, how will they vote in upcoming elections once they are fully indoctrinated and given amnesty? That's right, we no longer acknowledge laws we disagree with. This BS is going to hit the fan -- hard.

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         Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Merriam-Webster's definition of immigrant.
         Main Entry: im·mi·grant
         Pronunciation: \ˈi-mə-grənt\
         Function: noun
         Date: 1789
         
         : one that immigrates: as a : a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence b : a plant or animal that becomes established in an area where it was previously unknown
         
         — immigrant adjective
         
         I suppose some of them are permanent and others temporary.

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            TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Main Entry: 1il·le·gal
            Pronunciation: \(ˌ)i(l)-ˈlē-gəl\
            Function: adjective
            Etymology: Middle French or Medieval Latin; Middle French illegal, from Medieval Latin illegalis, from Latin in- + legalis legal
            Date: 1538
            : not according to or authorized by law : unlawful, illicit; also : not sanctioned by official rules (as of a game)
            
            — il·le·gal·i·ty  \ˌi-li-ˈga-lə-tē\ noun
            
            — il·le·gal·ly  \(ˌ)i(l)-ˈlē-gə-lē\ adverb
            
            You forgot a word Ralph... stop trying to skip the illegal part...

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         wildernessposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         From the INA, an "alien" means an "individual who does not have U.S. citizenship and is not a U.S. national."
         
         From US Legal Definitions:  "An illegal immigrant is a person who has entered the country without official authorization. Federal immigration law provides means by which certain aliens can become naturalized citizens with full rights of citizenship".
         
         Without citizenship and/or official authorization all are illegal immigrants.  Without citizenship all are aliens.  Disregarding semantics, aliens cannot be immigrants.

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    Ralph Deedsposted 14 years ago

    Reporting Israeli Assault Through Israel's Eyes
    Attack on humanitarian flotilla prompts little media skepticism
    
    by Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting
    
    On May 31, the Israeli military attacked a flotilla of boats full of civilians attempting to deliver humanitarian supplies to the Gaza Strip. Reports indicate that at least nine and as many as 16 of the activists on board were killed, though details remain sketchy due to Israel's censorious limitations on media coverage. Much of the U.S. media coverage has been remarkably unskeptical of Israel's account of events and their context, and has paid little regard to international law.
    
    The New York Times (6/1/10) glossed over the facts of the devastating Israeli siege of Gaza, where 1.5 million people live in extreme poverty. As reporter Isabel Kershner wrote, "Despite sporadic rocket fire from the Palestinian territory against southern Israel, Israel says it allows enough basic supplies through border crossings to avoid any acute humanitarian crisis."
    
    Asking Israel to explain the effects of its embargo on the people of Gaza makes little sense, especially when there are plenty of other resources available. The U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs reported (IRIN, 5/18/10):
    
        As a consequence of Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip, 98 percent of industrial operations have been shut down since 2007 and there are acute shortages of fuel, cash, cooking gas and other basic supplies....
    
        Water-related health problems are widespread in the Strip because of the blockade and Israel's military operation in Gaza, which destroyed water and sanitation infrastructure, including reservoirs, wells, and thousands of kilometres of piping....
    
        Chronic malnutrition has risen in Gaza over the past few years to reach 10.2 percent....
    
    
    
    
    
    http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/06/01-8

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    TMMasonposted 14 years ago

    They wanted war with Israel... they got it.
    
    I have no pity for them.

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